July 17, 2025 • 37 mins
Dan Beyer and Aaron Torres, in for Doug, discuss if people are overcorrecting in their assessments of Caitlin Clark this season. The guys dive into the significance of Aaron Judge becoming the fastest to reach 350 career home runs. Plus, the crew highlight the biggest stories for the second half of the MLB season!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to The Doug Otleep Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three twelve two
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for
The Doug Otleep Show at Foxsportsradio dot com, or stream
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
R A very happy Thursday to you, and I am
very happy. I am very very happy. Erin Torres.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
You want to know why, I could take a couple guesses,
but I'll let you. Uh, I'll let you tell me.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well. I could have come in a really sour mood
because nobody here yesterday wished me a happy half birthday.
No one did at all. The card is always in
the mail. I can't speak cry, not a not a
half birthday yesterday. In fact, I didn't even say anything
to see if you guys would wish me the happy
half birthday. So I came here today for flesh. I
(00:50):
came for my pound of flesh. But I was softened
because it's the first round of the Open Championship. It
is also Erin where we found out that the Seahawks
and Buccaneers, who came into the National Football League in
nineteen seventy six, honoring their fiftiest seasons in the league,
will be wearing both teams their throwback uniforms when they
(01:13):
play in early October. Bucco Bruce will be there, the
Seahawks and their old silver helmets that were such a
hit when they were brought back last year. It really
really made me feel good. And you know what else
made me feel good. Caitlin Clark is in the news again.
Can they had a fever star? Yes, we are talking
(01:35):
Kitlyn Clark, fresh off of that huge SPI win last
night of WNBA. I can't even say it with a
straight face. Erin. By the way, we're gonna give you
updates throughout. If you missed any of the SP's last night,
we're gonna kind of give you a little flavor of it.
I'm not sure. Do the guys have it cooked up?
Do we have a little bit? Oh, they're they're working
(01:58):
in the back there. So if you so much to captain,
if you missed any of the worst TV show in
the history of TV shows, we're going to bring some
of it to you. Shing Gillis was on fire last night,
but the whole premise of the the SPS pretty much
annoysed the heck out of me, But we'll still give
you a little bit of a flavor if you missed it.
You know what the sps are.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
A good example of that is the dude who tells
you when his half birthday is so that you have
to then write down when his actual birthday is, or
you know, you feel guilty about it after So what wou.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It was too much to ask? I don't think it
was too much to ask that six months from now,
now less than that, I will be having another birthday.
I mean, Manzi's is next week her half birthday? Right?
Yes it is? What were you more effic?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
But I don't care about my half birthday. I'm sorry you.
Thank you for reminding me Dan that it's my half birthday.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I mean, my literal birthday was last week and I
got zero from you. But that's good.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's true. He's got this conundrum where he's like, fourth
of July his birthday, his anniversary, my work adversary July
fourth too.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, it's the whole deal. But you know it's your
wife's birthday or something as well. July fourteenth. It was
on Monday, but you know, the most important birthday tourus,
by the way, broke now because of everything that he
had to buy you the idea. Yes, I literally looked
at my bank account this week. Yes, thank you. Yes,
it's been If July just didn't exist, you know, I'd
(03:22):
be living a much more charmed life. But yeah, the
most important day on the calendar around this time, my
dog's birthday is June twenty ninth, So that's the that's
the big celebration. And then it just slowly just trickles downhill.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
From the dog lovely gives you a rondov applause for
that one. Do we have a little taste of the
spis from last night? Let's let's give it. Let's let's
let's get a little taste and who cares? Wow, that
was my favorite one too. I wanted to save the
(03:56):
flatulence for later, but who wanted to do it? Our
one secon one go right ahead, let's hear it again
and the sp goes too. Okay, all right, all right, enough,
we can't continuously play it because I've taken FCC training.
I think I'm already pushing the limits. Caitlyn Clark, I'm
(04:17):
sorry eron your point about Kaitlin Clark, who by always
gonna miss the All Star Game, is gonna miss the
three point shootout. The reason why she sat out last
year's three point shootout was so she could take part
of this year's three point shootout, and then she gets hurt.
It seems to be the type of season that it's
been for Caitlin Clark in the Indiana Fever.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, I just think that it's obviously a bummer. Listen,
she is the star of not only that league, but
you know, she's why we watched, She's why we're interested.
I do think it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Last year we no one could have a genuine, honest
conversation about hers. Too much, too soon. You don't want
a crown her, You don't want to this. Why is that?
Why does she get so much attention? And now this year?
Am I the only one that noticing that she's kind
of struggle in a little bit this year? Point total down,
(05:07):
rebounding total down to her credit, assist totals up, three
point shooting percentage at twenty seven percent, down from thirty
thirty four and a half percent a year ago. Listen,
injuries happen, Disappointing seasons happen. I get all that. But
if we didn't have the honest conversation about Kaitlyn Clark
last year, it feels like it's time to have the
(05:29):
honest conversation this year. And it feels like there's almost
a you know, correction of sorts of well, we were
too critical, we didn't give enough credit last year, so
we have to continue to give credit even when it's
not worthy.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
This year, I don't think we're remotely close to having
that honest conversation, That's what I mean. Yeah, like it is,
it is not to that point. And by the way,
I'm guilty of it. You're not the only one who's
pointed out the difficulties of Kitlyn Clark, and I don't
feel that I've been one way or the other. And
then I was doing a shit with Carrie Rhodes, who
does the show on Sunday Afternoons with Monzies with me
(06:04):
during football season. The former All Pro safety is a
hoopad and he pointed out some of the numbers that
you did, and I just kind of was like, all right, dude, whatever,
you know. I like, this is Caitlyn Clark, That's what's
going on. But the point is is that if you
want to have a real basketball discussion about Caitlyn Clark,
there is a lot of room for criticism. Doug had
(06:24):
a conversation about it last year when we definitely weren't
ready to have a real conversation about Caitlin Clark, and
he was criticized heavily because he talked about her shot,
the actual physical motion of her, of her shooting motion,
and Doug was heavily criticized by it. I think last
night at the I didn't want to make it about
the SPS, but how in the world does she win
(06:45):
Best w NBA Player? Sure like there's there's there's there's
no point in in pointing that out. I get it
if you're not putting her as the best player in
the national or the in the w NBA, But when
you're putting her ninth in the backcourt of guards like
that seems to be a little of extreme. There seems
to be like a sort of bias. I also think
(07:06):
that the overcorrection is obviously a bias as well, and
the reaction that you get on that side of it
is just as bad as if you heavily criticize her,
say that she's not good enough. And I think what
we've seen in the last I don't know a couple
of weeks in terms of even what we saw last night.
(07:26):
I don't think we're ready to have that point because
you have you know, Jamie Hill was pointing out how
many games she has played and those sort of things.
I feel the stats are convenient when it's for people's argument.
When it's not convenient for their argument, then they don't
go to the stats. They say different things and the
argument changes. And so now to your point of the overcorrection,
(07:50):
I feel that the overcorrection is now used by the
people who unwillingly or I should say, unvalidate without validation.
Last year we're criticizing Gitlin Clark. Now they have the
numbers on their side. Last year it was the other
way around. Yeah, a couple of things on that.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So, first of all, you know, I want to be clear,
just because she's struggling in a way that she didn't
last year doesn't mean that she can't go on to
do all of the things that we expected her to
do at IOWA a year ago. You know, we all
watched the last Dance. I mean, Michael Jordan's second year
was basically wiped out by that foot injury, right, and
so it's not to say that she can't reach the
(08:26):
potential that we all think she can get to. But again,
it's also the honest conversation. And I swear you're gonna
laugh at this. When I saw that she won the
SB for Best Female whatever, I mean, I hate to
say it, but I guess WNBA Yes, Okay, Well, I'm
sorry that I didn't have it, you know, in my my,
my slew of notes here. But I was kind that
was kind of when the light bulb went off of like,
(08:46):
she was really good last year. Her team lost early
in the playoffs, she was awesome, She put up record
numbers for a rookie. She probably wasn't the best WNBA
player and so and that was my thing, is like
we were so either over critical or you didn't want
to acknowledge her last year. Not you, but the hypothetical
proverbial audience that watches this and covers it in whatever.
(09:09):
And it feels like, oh, man, like we screwed up.
So we have to, you know, for lack of a
better term, participation trophy her with pretty much everything. She's awesome,
she's amazing, she's this, she's that, And to your point.
You know, the people aren't talking about the stats, which
are clearly regressing, and I think it's worth noting that, yes,
she has been injured.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
But one thing about all these great athletes, no matter
who we're talking about, once you step between those lines,
yes we understand that you're not one hundred percent, but
we hold you to a certain standard. You know, whether
it's you know, I was talking to you before Jalen
Hurts two seasons ago. He was banged up the back
half of the year. But it's like, oh, what's wrong
with Jalen Hurts? Did they pay him too soon? Blah
(09:52):
blah blah blah blah. You go on to any athlete
Joe Burrow, you know, starts slow because he misses training camp. Well, well,
why isn't Joe Burrow? And so the only point I'm
trying to make is I understand she's injured, because I
know that's going to be the first reaction for people
listening to this. But every great athlete, once you step
between those white lines, there is a baseline expectation that
if you're healthy enough to play, that you're going to contribute,
(10:14):
and if you're struggling, we will be critical of that,
and I think I think people have largely avoided that
this year.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
And that's why I don't think that we can have
the honest conversation. And there's also something different about Caitlin Clark.
And I'm going to use Lebron James for the example
because the example of a player that I felt was
unfairly criticized was in the twenty fourteen finals when le
Bron's body just cramped up, his entire body. He was
(10:39):
carrying the heat. He was the only thing that they
really had against the Spurs. And it's one hundred and
twenty degrees in the arena, you know, midsummer in San
Antonio Esse. I've been there, retired because I know you
went to a final. I was at the seven finals,
so this was a different finals. But yeah, it's toasty.
I get it. There was air conditioning issue. His body
cramps up and he was caring. He was the only
(11:00):
thing that he really had. And people are like, Lebron
can't finish the game because he cramps. Body cramped up.
Like when I'm in the pool of my foot cramps,
it's over. It's done with, Like it's the worst. If
you get a hamstring cramp. It's like I was shot
in the legs right, like it's just immediate. Yet Lebron like, dude,
why can't you finish the game?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Ah?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Because he probably can't physically walk. I bring that up
because I don't think that Lebron has been used as
a pawn by both sides, but I feel that Caitlyn
Clark has agree and so now no no shame in
sophomore slump. But even though I'm saying that, I feel
(11:41):
there's a portion of the audience that is saying, well,
you're on Caitlin Clark's side, and so Caitlyn Clark is
not allowed any grace because of everything that is come
with her. And this is where the back and forth
and the choosing comes from. So I actually feel, as
crazy as it sounds, for all the success that she's had,
(12:02):
she's a pawn and she's a victim at all of this.
And that's why, to your point, I don't think we
can have a real, fair, honest conversation about it, because
everybody is using all of this information as weapons, either
good or bad.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well, and you know, it reminds me of yesterday we
were in for Cavino and Rich we talked about Belichick
versus Robert Kraft and essentially that you're no matter how
you feel about the Patriots dynasty, there's nothing coming out
that is going to change your opinion. And I kind
of feel like that's how it is with Kate Clark.
Is like, if you love her, she's awesome. She's the
(12:36):
best thing that ever happened to women's basketball. She's the
greatest three point shooter that's ever lived. Blah blah blah,
this and that, and then of course if you don't
love her, oh, it's it's because of privilege, and you know,
what does she want? And you know, she just gets
too much credit because of this, and dah dah, da dah.
And I guess you know, you and I are the
only ones that maybe you and Carrie a couple of
days ago, but there aren't very many people that actually
(12:56):
do want to have the conversation and actually be critical
for the on the court performance, critical for whatever. And
I think the word he used it pawn is correct
and probably accurate from the perspective of nobody actually wants
to sit here and break down her game and say, oh,
you know, well, whatever whatever stat whatever number, whatever video
(13:17):
you want to use. They just want to say we
either lover this is why, we either hate her this
is why, and nobody wants to kind of meet in
the middle on either side.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Well, the only other person that I feel on a
general major sports talk level that we talk about their
performance is Angel Reese. I'm gonna say something. I know
Nafisa Collier is the other captain in the All Star Game,
and she's a star player for the Minnesota Lynx. I
have zero idea if her numbers are up or down
(13:46):
from the year priorct same thing with Brandon Stewart, same
thing with the WNBA MVP Asia Wilson of years past.
I have no idea if her numbers are better or worse.
And so that's another part of not having a real
conversation because I feel like if we are talking about
Jalen Hurts, or we are talking we know the quarterbacks
(14:08):
in the National Football League, you know. And so that's
why it goes back to Clark again being upon in
all of this and people using their information to their
own for their own weapon their own weaponry, is what
I'm trying to say. But it's it's funny because I
just know, I know Angel Reese, we look at her,
we break her down, and we do the same with
with Kitlyn Clark. And honestly, it's funny that you say
(14:32):
that because we had a conversation last year that went
in a bunch of different directions, because Jason Stewart is
usually the executive producer of the show, made the point
that Kitlyn Clark got our picture taking with Aaron Judge
and said that this is the state of baseball because
Caitlin Clark was way more popular than Aaron Judge. I
was in Monty was in that day and I said, well,
(14:53):
wait a second, and then we did a vote around
the room. Remember this, Yeah I wasn't here, but I remember, yeah,
Sam was there, and it was eighty percent in favor
of Caitlyn Clark over Aaron Judge of popularity. And I
guess the point why I bring that up is at
that time, I was saying, Aaron Judge has this longevity
that he has been around, and there is more stock
(15:16):
in the game. A year later, after making the comments,
if Caitlin Clark just say she continues this way or
the play doesn't improve, and I don't want to because
she's not an everyday player, but if this is more
the norm than maybe what she did at the end
of last year, she still made such enormous strides in
the WNBA that I was wrong about last year because
(15:38):
the league has just completely changed because of her. To
have that honest conversation maybe down the line, but the
one thing that I guess the haters will never be
able to truly shoot down and defend is that she
changed the game. And that's my ultimate takeaway. If she
if this ends up being her, let's just say her
body isn't maybe physically meant for this. I mean, she
(16:00):
didn't play it unrivaled, she didn't play in that league,
so this was her really only season that she's been playing.
If maybe physically she's not able to do it, her
mark has been made in the w NBA.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, And I mean that's a conversation to have down
the road, but I do agree. First of all, I
do agree with that is if she retired tomorrow, if
she had, let's God forbid, she had to retire tomorrow,
the impact that she had. And I say this, you know,
it's funny as somebody who you know, I think I
probably have a little bit more of a background in
women's basketball, just because where I grew up in Connecticut,
(16:31):
you know, you mentioned Fisakllier. You know, I grew up
like we would have the Yukon women's game with Alanna
Tarazi and Sue byrd On in the background, and I'm
ready to you know, I'll readily admit no player before
her has had the impact that she has had. And
so I do think it's interesting where you can go ahead.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Say no, no, I will when you're done, but go ahead.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
All I was gonna say was I do wonder if
it's just a basketball thing, because you know, you mentioned Lebron,
and it does feel like there's a side on Lebron.
He's the goat, he's this, he's that. We don't talk
about the fact that in what four of his six
years or five of his seven years with the Lakers,
they've either lost in the first round or missed the
(17:09):
plapp No, he's the goat, he's this, he's that. And
then there's the other side that can't acknowledge that at worst,
he's the second best player of all time, and you
know we should enjoy him while we have him. So
maybe it's a basketball thing. You know, we mentioned football.
Football is on once a week we all watch it.
You know, Patrick Mahomes is playing ten standalone games every
year in a way that most basketball players aren't. I
(17:32):
don't know if that's it, but it does feel like
a uniquely basketball thing.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
And I'll just finish with this. My point with the
Legacy is it doesn't matter how many points she scores.
It doesn't matter with how many assists she has, doesn't
matter if her turnovers or up or down, doesn't matter
if her assist a turnover ratio is magnificent or it's awful.
It's just the fact of what she has done to
change the league. So that was kind of just my
(17:57):
point of talking about legacy. See Whise like, she may
only be this player, but the thing that people can't
ever deny is the changing of the league. In a
year ago, Aaron I thought to myself that she needed
to continue on this rise. Sam was here that day,
even said, because Sam was even making the argument, I
(18:18):
think Moncey was as well of where Caitlyn Clark could go.
And I said, yeah, but Aaron Judge has the equity
because he's been there longer. He's that's why he's more popular.
He's done it for more years and I want to
see what happens with Caitlin Clark. But the thing a
year later that I can't deny is even if she
stays like this, which I hope she doesn't, I hope
this is just a dip in her career and that
(18:39):
she stays healthy. I can't deny what she did to
the WNBA, which should make her the winner of the
Aaron Judge argument. Yeah, no, I don't disagree, Iowa, Sam
or you are you in on the Caitlin Clark understanding
that this just isn't her year as the as the
unofficial fan here at Fox Sports Radio, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
You know you can attribute sophomore slumps to injury, just
people you know, changing their game to defend her. It's
I just think that the Caitlin Clark discussion swings so
far in each direction, right, you guys are touching on
that earlier. It's not really fair to her. It's either
like far in one direction, far in another. And the
fact of the matter is, like I am going to
say that her injury should be an asterisk of for
(19:23):
why she's been playing this way. I just think there's
an immense amount of pressure on her to keep carrying
this league, and she's a year and a half into
her WNBA career, and you know, I think that the
stress of the pressure being on you can break your
body down. I really think that you can have you
can suffer from injuries just from having a lot of
spotlight on you. Maybe she just hasn't had the chance
to really like work with, you know, being a celebrity
(19:47):
and try and improve her game. She needs to get
into a certain headspace and get her body right. We're
halfway through her second year. We could see the second
second half of her season play out. They get to
the playoffs, maybe they make a run to like the
second round or something. Do we call that season? We
call it a success? I think we would. And again
in the WNBA Player of the Year for the SP's
is an interesting conversation. You're giving the they're giving the
(20:08):
award out in July when most sports are on hiatus.
You're halfway through her second year, so it's like, when
do you start the calendar when you look at what
she's done over a course our calendar.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Well, she shouldn't have won a meaningless award anyway. Last night,
you know, Yeah, I don't put much stock into it. No,
I put zero. If I could do less than zero,
I would. I would because I agree negative nine million into.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
I would say that she wasn't the player of the year.
She's the rookie of the year. Maybe for all of
the things she did bringing attention and breaking bars. She's
the player of the year in the SP's eyes. But
it's like where do you start the calendar? Where do
you start looking at the good? The good runs to
a certain amount, and then then it's like a story.
You have your ups and your downs, your triumphs and
your failures.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
The funny thing is that Mantia I do want to
just quick get your thoughts and then we'll put a
bow on it. The sps are for ratings, and there
were ten WNBA teams in action last night, so nobody
of the WNBA was in it. So there's nobody there
to boo. Nobody there, and if you actually cared about
the WIBA, you were probably watching the games that were
being played instead of a stupid award show that doesn't
(21:09):
mean anything. And so they just gave the award to
Kitlin Clark because it's better for their ratings. I'm sure
to see if Caitlin Clark would win. Oh my goodness,
I gotta watch next year. That's the only reason why
she got it. Sorry, Manzi, back to square one. You've
always been a Caitlin Clark backer like Sam.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I have been, and I am and I understand to
an extent when you guys are saying that overall, honestly,
it's just been an underwhelming second year for Kaitlyn Clark.
And it's been underwhelming. Whether it's injury, whether it's stressed,
whether it has just been underwhelming.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, and I just want to reiter at the point
that I made earlier. It doesn't mean that she can't
continue to blossom. You know, I have a reference that
you know, Michael Jordan, we all watched left the last
dance like year two was wiped out by a foot injury,
and I went back and looked it up average thirty
seven the next year. So you know, I'm not saying
I'm just saying.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
It is right.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
This isn't a judgment to what it's going to be
like for the future. Is just right now underwhelming.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I agree Aaron called in an overcorrection, and I just
think that a different audience has different ammunition. Now that's true,
Like the power of the stats or the power of
statistics has now switched in your argument, in your in
not your but in the biased argument around Kaitlin Clark.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And the only thing I would say is I call
it an overcorrection. But to your point, by definition, if
you've already decided and you're not getting off of that,
then you can't overcorrect because your decision was already made,
probably before she came into the WNBA, but certainly by
the end of the season last year.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
He's Eron Torres. I'm Dan byer Monci is here, as
is Iowa Sam Ryan Bersinger as our executive producer because
I feel a draft our tirect player of the Day
comes up in a bit as well. But I brought
up Aaron Judge and while he may be sitting there
in this shadow of Caitlin Clark, should he really be
in the shadow of others in Major League Baseball? We'll
talk about it next on Fox Sports Radio. Thanks for
listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Be sure to catch us live weekday three to five
Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports
Radio Dot com or stream US live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching fs R.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
By the way, you didn't Monster didn't have an update.
But if you missed any of the SP's last night,
here's a little.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Taste, okay, and the SP goes.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
To, okay, do we have anything outside of you have anything? Okay? Okay? Alright,
goes too okay. There what a waste of time the
sps were. And I know that we've maybe wasted more
(23:43):
time talking about how much of a waste of time
the SP's were. But like, let's on our athletes again.
Who needs an MVP award when you've got this amazing,
amazing Aaron Judge. I don't think he was there last night.
I have no idea. I didn't. I didn't watch it
and see that Aaron Judge is getting ready for the
second half of the Major League Baseball season. He's sitting
(24:05):
there with a career home run total that saw him
be the fastest player to ever reach three hundred and
fifty home runs, and for how quickly he did it,
Aaron one thousand and eighty eight games. Mark McGuire was
the second fastest twelve hundred and eighty That is almost
(24:25):
two hundred games. It is more than a full season
of games for Aaron Judge to reach three hundred and
fifty home runs. He did it in a season plus
quicker than Mark McGuire did. I find that feat remarkable
considering how much I feel that we care about home runs.
So on the heels of us talking about Caitlyn Clark
(24:46):
and last year, I'm trying to make an argument on
how Aaron Judge is more popular. I'm not sure if
that's the case now, aside from our Caitlin Clark conversation,
because I don't think we're making a bigger deal or
as big of a deal out of where he is
right now, the season that he's having right now, and
what Aaron Judge is actually doing on the diamond.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, it's funny you and I filled in, I believe
for cn R maybe gott leeb a few weeks ago,
the night the day after Clayton Kershaw got his three
thousand strikeout, we started talking about records that will never
be broken and who's on pace for this and what
it would take for whoever, you know who. I can't
even remember who's the next guy online, but anyway, how
long it would take so and so to get there
(25:25):
and so to have a stat like this for a
to your point, a record that is arguably, I mean,
I know it's a little skewed because of the Barry
Bond stuff, but arguably one of the most coveted records
in all of sports. We have a guy living it
every day on you know, on path to be in
the conversation by the end, by the way, playing for the.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yankees too great point.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
You know, I don't mean to be a jerk, and
I know everybody always defaults to the Pittsburgh Pirates or
the Tampa Bay Rays or the Kansas City Royals. He's
not doing this with the Royals on a fourth place team.
He is doing it for the one of the two
pre brands in the sport. And I am surprised. I
actually didn't know about this until you brought it up yesterday.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It's funny because my argument when talking about the pictures
is I just I feel like when they were what
only you know, twenty pitchers to accomplish the feed or
whatever it was, that it shows you how select the
company is, and so that shows you on how special
the players are. And there are certain players who are
young in their career that are just special and will
be treated different throughout. And I feel that Aaron Judge
(26:26):
when we're talking about home runs, is in that conversation.
So I'm sitting there thinking to myself, why aren't we
talking about this more? And I thought, were they talking
about this back in the day when Hank Aaron was
hitting bomb after bomb, where they like, he's sitting there
at three hundred and fifty home runs and he's almost
halfway to Babe Ruth's record of seven fourteen. I don't
(26:49):
think that was the conversation. In fact, throughout other players' careers.
I'm thinking back of when do we really start to
care and it's probably around five, Yeah, five hundred, I
think that's probably the correct number. But I think Judge
is giving us reason to watch, and maybe we aren't
fulfilling our duties of being interested considering the type of
(27:13):
season that he's having and just what he's doing with
home runs. Like I could, I could understand if people
like oh, I didn't realize Era Judge in the running
for you know, the Triple Crown. Totally get that, but
for the fascination that we have for the home run
and what we love and the magical number of it.
I just don't think it's getting enough PUB.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I mean, think about this two year over year as
he hits his thirties. He turned thirty in April of
twenty twenty two, sixty two home runs that year, thirty
seven the following year. He didn't miss about sixty games,
fifty eight last year, and he obviously has thirty five
at the All Star break right now. So I think
(27:51):
that's just it's just incredible the amount of consistency that
he has had as he hit his thirties. You know,
I do wonder if starting the career a little bit
later because of playing in college obviously at Fresno State,
impacts it at all. But the guy is unbelievable, And
you're right, I don't know exactly why he isn't getting
(28:12):
more PUB. I don't know if it's his personality. I
don't know if Otani just overwhelms the baseball national discourse.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
But the guy's unbelievable. What's also a small portion of this,
and it doesn't directly go into the total number of
games in the three point fifty mark, but there's a
COVID season that great con is that he basically lost
one hundred games. Let's just say misses twenty that year.
Eighty games that he misses half of a season, and
(28:40):
we're talking about greatness. I'm curious to see at the
end of the of his career on if that's going
to end up playing playing a role.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I'll just say this. You know, it's funny, we don't
really factor that in anywhere else, you know, like with
Lebron just as a you know, historic all time great
It's like, yeah, I guess with the NFL, they basically
played a full season, so that's a little bit different.
But like with Lebron, you know, we talk about how
the season was broken up, how do we judge his
(29:09):
how do we judge I guess maybe it's because baseball
was the only one that really had such a truncated season,
And now that we're talking it out, you know, college
basketball obviously missed the NCAA tournament. College football, I think
most of those SEC teams got in about the same
number of games that they would have in the end.
So maybe maybe it's just a uniquely baseball thing, but
that was something you know, I just saw the twenty
twenty stats and kind of forgot, Oh, that's right. They
(29:31):
played what sixty regular season games something to that effect
in empty stadiums that year.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And even at the end, it doesn't even out because
that would be in the young, you know, prime of
his career of where he could have had those home runs,
so you could have seen an astronomical number as opposed
to if you were to play, if you were to
save the energy, if we think of it that way,
or elongated his career because he didn't have a full season, Well,
I would rather have the games when i'ms and on
(29:55):
the back end of when I'm in my late thirties
trying to.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Hit twenty eight. He would have been twenty twenty. That's
your physical peak.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yes, absolutely absolutely, he is Eron Torres. I'm Dan Byer.
Only cal Raley right now standing in the way of
Aaron Judge and that triple crown, plus what Showhey Otani does.
I feel overshadows Judge just because of the uniqueness of
show Ay and his greatness. I feel that that also
plays a role in all of this. He is Eron Torres.
(30:23):
I'm Dan Byer in for Doug Gottlieb today on Fox
Sports Radio. Coming up next, the All Star Break is
done tomorrow games resume in the second half takes off.
What storylines are you looking forward to in the second
half of the baseball season. We'll tell you next here
on Fox Sports Radio. Thanks for listening to The Doug
Gotleb Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from three
to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gotlieb Show at
Foxsports Trader dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Dog Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. He's erin Torres. I'm
Dan Byer, going to continue to talk baseball. Asa Bonti
Blanios has a game for us. Cody tweeted in to
my point about Aaron Judge missing games with the COVID
season in twenty twenty and only playing sixty that year.
He said, don't forget major League Baseball at strike shortened
seasons as well. I don't know how they fell with
(31:17):
every certain player, but obviously nineteen ninety four was cut
short by a month and a half. They started, I
think a little bit later in nineteen ninety five for
the season that they had, But sure there are players
as well. Missing almost missing one hundred games is going
to be a big deal. I don't don't know how
(31:37):
it sorts out through history and other workstoppages that happened
in baseball previously. But Cody makes a really good point
that don't feel too bad for Judge because of that,
because there could be other players dealing with it. Interesting. Yeah, well, Laron, Judge,
make our draft. Let's find out with a game.
Speaker 6 (31:59):
This game time saw on.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
The Doug Gottlieb Show. Mancey Milanios is here. What's up, Mancy?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Guys?
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Happy Thursday?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
What have we got today?
Speaker 4 (32:10):
We're gonna play? Is he?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
All right?
Speaker 6 (32:12):
Now?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
I'm just gonna pay?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
What are we I feel a draft?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
That's right, we are gonna be drafting here, fellas. Now
that officially all Star break is over coming back to
the second half of baseball storylines that you look are
looking forward to. It could be anything but baseball related.
And we're just gonna go and order alphabetical order.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
So Aaron, you're gonna go first? Uh?
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Then did me Ryan?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
And we end with Sam?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
All right? All right, this.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Isn't the biggest story. But I'm actually asking this because
I want Bursh and Mancy's perspective on it. Seriously, what's up?
My number one storyline is Sho he o tani the picture. Yeah,
And my question is, and I asked Dan this yesterday
off air, what is the end game like? Is it
he's on no restrictions by October? Is he still only
(33:05):
going two to three innings to four by October? Because
that would feel weird to me. I know there's been
bullpen games in the playoffs, but to start Game two
of the World Series and only go three innings, So
I'm just I'm fascinated, But I'm also curious what the
big picture plan is, and I know you too. I
don't know who wants to take it or whatever, or
if we even have time, but I'm just curious for
(33:26):
the perspective.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
I think the full plan is for him to be
a full fledged starter by October. I think what we've
been seeing for the last month is he's in essence
doing rehab starts at the major league level, which is wild.
And it will depend on the state of the Dodgers'
rotation once they get to October, because if they have
Tyler Glass now and Blake Snell and Yoshiombu Yamamoto and
even Roki Sasaki all healthy by October, then Otani is
(33:51):
really the fourth starter out of those guys, and when
he's pitching at his highest level, he's the best starter
out of those guys if they are full if they
have full health in the staff once they get to October,
I would imagine Otani is probably then being used with
like three four inning starts in mind, and then having
somebody piggyback behind him in playoff games. It'll all depend
(34:14):
on the state of the rotation, but I'm sure the
plan is for him to be a full fledged starter
by then.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Thank you. I appreciate that I'm up at number two.
A lot of things to go, but I'm gonna just
go with the ineptitude of the Rockies. For some reason,
I wasn't wrapped up in the White Sox losing last year,
but the Rockies, I don't know. There's just something about it.
So if they can just continue to lose and not
win and add to their win total, they have a
(34:40):
chance at major League history. Like it's gonna be really difficult,
but if any team can do it, I think it's
the Rockies.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Thirty yeah, five and a half games back at the
All Star there's still time.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
There's still time.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I'll go up.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I'm really curious to see what's gonna happen with Juan
Soto this second half in the Mets. As Dodger fans,
Ryan and I saw the Mets get hot last year
when it mattered the most, and it you know, got
interesting there at the end, and I'm really curious to
see what Wan Soda is gonna do and if he's
gonna put them over the top, because he has had
a you know, mixed first half and he's making too
much money to do that. Ryan, you're up next. Let's
(35:14):
uh keep it going here.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
I think what's super weird, guys, is we are just
a little over two weeks away from the trade deadline
and there's been nothing and we don't even really hear
anything about any sort of big names that could potentially
be on the move.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
I'm gonna be watching as to what happens in the
trade deadline because either we're gonna have a super dead
deadline because that's why we haven't seen anything, or it's
going to be incredibly active and that's why we haven't
seen anything yet. I think it'll be a lot of
super significant role players that will be moved. But I
don't think we're going to see a gigantic name get
moved at this deadline. But what happens at the deadline
is the storyline I'm watching, all right.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Sir, wrap it up.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Sam.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
As a younger man, I follow the Phillies, rooted for them.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
So the NL East is a hot competition right now
with the it's in the Phillies and so no one
else is even uh in contention really for the n
L E. So Phillies and the Mets see who can
win that division.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Nobody mentioned cal Ra and what.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Of you? You didn't know if we were going to
have time for a second round, and we don't.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
We don't, But I was just saying that.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
For the first round.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I would also say this, I think that that's one,
a sneaky one. Could the Marlins actually do something? Ryan
bursching Or and I took part in survivor pools in
baseball and they've been on fire. They're seven and a
half back of the wild card, so it doesn't seem
like they're clothes.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
But they beat good teams.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yes, yes, they're way down there. Could they be a
team that all of a sudden finds its way up
swimming up stream. Oh, Marlin Jo, that's game time. He's
Aaron Torres. I'm Dan Byer. We flashed back to six
(37:03):
years ago.
Thanks for listening to The Doug Otleep Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three twelve two
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for
The Doug Otleep Show at Foxsportsradio dot com, or stream
us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching apps.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
R A very happy Thursday to you, and I am
very happy. I am very very happy. Erin Torres.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
You want to know why, I could take a couple guesses,
but I'll let you. Uh, I'll let you tell me.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well. I could have come in a really sour mood
because nobody here yesterday wished me a happy half birthday.
No one did at all. The card is always in
the mail. I can't speak cry, not a not a
half birthday yesterday. In fact, I didn't even say anything
to see if you guys would wish me the happy
half birthday. So I came here today for flesh. I
(00:50):
came for my pound of flesh. But I was softened
because it's the first round of the Open Championship. It
is also Erin where we found out that the Seahawks
and Buccaneers, who came into the National Football League in
nineteen seventy six, honoring their fiftiest seasons in the league,
will be wearing both teams their throwback uniforms when they
(01:13):
play in early October. Bucco Bruce will be there, the
Seahawks and their old silver helmets that were such a
hit when they were brought back last year. It really
really made me feel good. And you know what else
made me feel good. Caitlin Clark is in the news again.
Can they had a fever star? Yes, we are talking
(01:35):
Kitlyn Clark, fresh off of that huge SPI win last
night of WNBA. I can't even say it with a
straight face. Erin. By the way, we're gonna give you
updates throughout. If you missed any of the SP's last night,
we're gonna kind of give you a little flavor of it.
I'm not sure. Do the guys have it cooked up?
Do we have a little bit? Oh, they're they're working
(01:58):
in the back there. So if you so much to captain,
if you missed any of the worst TV show in
the history of TV shows, we're going to bring some
of it to you. Shing Gillis was on fire last night,
but the whole premise of the the SPS pretty much
annoysed the heck out of me, But we'll still give
you a little bit of a flavor if you missed it.
You know what the sps are.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
A good example of that is the dude who tells
you when his half birthday is so that you have
to then write down when his actual birthday is, or
you know, you feel guilty about it after So what wou.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It was too much to ask? I don't think it
was too much to ask that six months from now,
now less than that, I will be having another birthday.
I mean, Manzi's is next week her half birthday? Right?
Yes it is? What were you more effic?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
But I don't care about my half birthday. I'm sorry you.
Thank you for reminding me Dan that it's my half birthday.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I mean, my literal birthday was last week and I
got zero from you. But that's good.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's true. He's got this conundrum where he's like, fourth
of July his birthday, his anniversary, my work adversary July
fourth too.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Yeah, it's the whole deal. But you know it's your
wife's birthday or something as well. July fourteenth. It was
on Monday, but you know, the most important birthday tourus,
by the way, broke now because of everything that he
had to buy you the idea. Yes, I literally looked
at my bank account this week. Yes, thank you. Yes,
it's been If July just didn't exist, you know, I'd
(03:22):
be living a much more charmed life. But yeah, the
most important day on the calendar around this time, my
dog's birthday is June twenty ninth, So that's the that's
the big celebration. And then it just slowly just trickles downhill.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
From the dog lovely gives you a rondov applause for
that one. Do we have a little taste of the
spis from last night? Let's let's give it. Let's let's
let's get a little taste and who cares? Wow, that
was my favorite one too. I wanted to save the
(03:56):
flatulence for later, but who wanted to do it? Our
one secon one go right ahead, let's hear it again
and the sp goes too. Okay, all right, all right, enough,
we can't continuously play it because I've taken FCC training.
I think I'm already pushing the limits. Caitlyn Clark, I'm
(04:17):
sorry eron your point about Kaitlin Clark, who by always
gonna miss the All Star Game, is gonna miss the
three point shootout. The reason why she sat out last
year's three point shootout was so she could take part
of this year's three point shootout, and then she gets hurt.
It seems to be the type of season that it's
been for Caitlin Clark in the Indiana Fever.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah, I just think that it's obviously a bummer. Listen,
she is the star of not only that league, but
you know, she's why we watched, She's why we're interested.
I do think it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I feel like.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Last year we no one could have a genuine, honest
conversation about hers. Too much, too soon. You don't want
a crown her, You don't want to this. Why is that?
Why does she get so much attention? And now this year?
Am I the only one that noticing that she's kind
of struggle in a little bit this year? Point total down,
(05:07):
rebounding total down to her credit, assist totals up, three
point shooting percentage at twenty seven percent, down from thirty
thirty four and a half percent a year ago. Listen,
injuries happen, Disappointing seasons happen. I get all that. But
if we didn't have the honest conversation about Kaitlyn Clark
last year, it feels like it's time to have the
(05:29):
honest conversation this year. And it feels like there's almost
a you know, correction of sorts of well, we were
too critical, we didn't give enough credit last year, so
we have to continue to give credit even when it's
not worthy.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
This year, I don't think we're remotely close to having
that honest conversation, That's what I mean. Yeah, like it is,
it is not to that point. And by the way,
I'm guilty of it. You're not the only one who's
pointed out the difficulties of Kitlyn Clark, and I don't
feel that I've been one way or the other. And
then I was doing a shit with Carrie Rhodes, who
does the show on Sunday Afternoons with Monzies with me
(06:04):
during football season. The former All Pro safety is a
hoopad and he pointed out some of the numbers that
you did, and I just kind of was like, all right, dude, whatever,
you know. I like, this is Caitlyn Clark, That's what's
going on. But the point is is that if you
want to have a real basketball discussion about Caitlyn Clark,
there is a lot of room for criticism. Doug had
(06:24):
a conversation about it last year when we definitely weren't
ready to have a real conversation about Caitlin Clark, and
he was criticized heavily because he talked about her shot,
the actual physical motion of her, of her shooting motion,
and Doug was heavily criticized by it. I think last
night at the I didn't want to make it about
the SPS, but how in the world does she win
(06:45):
Best w NBA Player? Sure like there's there's there's there's
no point in in pointing that out. I get it
if you're not putting her as the best player in
the national or the in the w NBA, But when
you're putting her ninth in the backcourt of guards like
that seems to be a little of extreme. There seems
to be like a sort of bias. I also think
(07:06):
that the overcorrection is obviously a bias as well, and
the reaction that you get on that side of it
is just as bad as if you heavily criticize her,
say that she's not good enough. And I think what
we've seen in the last I don't know a couple
of weeks in terms of even what we saw last night.
(07:26):
I don't think we're ready to have that point because
you have you know, Jamie Hill was pointing out how
many games she has played and those sort of things.
I feel the stats are convenient when it's for people's argument.
When it's not convenient for their argument, then they don't
go to the stats. They say different things and the
argument changes. And so now to your point of the overcorrection,
(07:50):
I feel that the overcorrection is now used by the
people who unwillingly or I should say, unvalidate without validation.
Last year we're criticizing Gitlin Clark. Now they have the
numbers on their side. Last year it was the other
way around. Yeah, a couple of things on that.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
So, first of all, you know, I want to be clear,
just because she's struggling in a way that she didn't
last year doesn't mean that she can't go on to
do all of the things that we expected her to
do at IOWA a year ago. You know, we all
watched the last Dance. I mean, Michael Jordan's second year
was basically wiped out by that foot injury, right, and
so it's not to say that she can't reach the
(08:26):
potential that we all think she can get to. But again,
it's also the honest conversation. And I swear you're gonna
laugh at this. When I saw that she won the
SB for Best Female whatever, I mean, I hate to
say it, but I guess WNBA Yes, Okay, Well, I'm
sorry that I didn't have it, you know, in my my,
my slew of notes here. But I was kind that
was kind of when the light bulb went off of like,
(08:46):
she was really good last year. Her team lost early
in the playoffs, she was awesome, She put up record
numbers for a rookie. She probably wasn't the best WNBA
player and so and that was my thing, is like
we were so either over critical or you didn't want
to acknowledge her last year. Not you, but the hypothetical
proverbial audience that watches this and covers it in whatever.
(09:09):
And it feels like, oh, man, like we screwed up.
So we have to, you know, for lack of a
better term, participation trophy her with pretty much everything. She's awesome,
she's amazing, she's this, she's that, And to your point.
You know, the people aren't talking about the stats, which
are clearly regressing, and I think it's worth noting that, yes,
she has been injured.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
But one thing about all these great athletes, no matter
who we're talking about, once you step between those lines,
yes we understand that you're not one hundred percent, but
we hold you to a certain standard. You know, whether
it's you know, I was talking to you before Jalen
Hurts two seasons ago. He was banged up the back
half of the year. But it's like, oh, what's wrong
with Jalen Hurts? Did they pay him too soon? Blah
(09:52):
blah blah blah blah. You go on to any athlete
Joe Burrow, you know, starts slow because he misses training camp. Well, well,
why isn't Joe Burrow? And so the only point I'm
trying to make is I understand she's injured, because I
know that's going to be the first reaction for people
listening to this. But every great athlete, once you step
between those white lines, there is a baseline expectation that
if you're healthy enough to play, that you're going to contribute,
(10:14):
and if you're struggling, we will be critical of that,
and I think I think people have largely avoided that
this year.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
And that's why I don't think that we can have
the honest conversation. And there's also something different about Caitlin Clark.
And I'm going to use Lebron James for the example
because the example of a player that I felt was
unfairly criticized was in the twenty fourteen finals when le
Bron's body just cramped up, his entire body. He was
(10:39):
carrying the heat. He was the only thing that they
really had against the Spurs. And it's one hundred and
twenty degrees in the arena, you know, midsummer in San
Antonio Esse. I've been there, retired because I know you
went to a final. I was at the seven finals,
so this was a different finals. But yeah, it's toasty.
I get it. There was air conditioning issue. His body
cramps up and he was caring. He was the only
(11:00):
thing that he really had. And people are like, Lebron
can't finish the game because he cramps. Body cramped up.
Like when I'm in the pool of my foot cramps,
it's over. It's done with, Like it's the worst. If
you get a hamstring cramp. It's like I was shot
in the legs right, like it's just immediate. Yet Lebron like, dude,
why can't you finish the game?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Ah?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Because he probably can't physically walk. I bring that up
because I don't think that Lebron has been used as
a pawn by both sides, but I feel that Caitlyn
Clark has agree and so now no no shame in
sophomore slump. But even though I'm saying that, I feel
(11:41):
there's a portion of the audience that is saying, well,
you're on Caitlin Clark's side, and so Caitlyn Clark is
not allowed any grace because of everything that is come
with her. And this is where the back and forth
and the choosing comes from. So I actually feel, as
crazy as it sounds, for all the success that she's had,
(12:02):
she's a pawn and she's a victim at all of this.
And that's why, to your point, I don't think we
can have a real, fair, honest conversation about it, because
everybody is using all of this information as weapons, either
good or bad.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well, and you know, it reminds me of yesterday we
were in for Cavino and Rich we talked about Belichick
versus Robert Kraft and essentially that you're no matter how
you feel about the Patriots dynasty, there's nothing coming out
that is going to change your opinion. And I kind
of feel like that's how it is with Kate Clark.
Is like, if you love her, she's awesome. She's the
(12:36):
best thing that ever happened to women's basketball. She's the
greatest three point shooter that's ever lived. Blah blah blah,
this and that, and then of course if you don't
love her, oh, it's it's because of privilege, and you know,
what does she want? And you know, she just gets
too much credit because of this, and dah dah, da dah.
And I guess you know, you and I are the
only ones that maybe you and Carrie a couple of
days ago, but there aren't very many people that actually
(12:56):
do want to have the conversation and actually be critical
for the on the court performance, critical for whatever. And
I think the word he used it pawn is correct
and probably accurate from the perspective of nobody actually wants
to sit here and break down her game and say, oh,
you know, well, whatever whatever stat whatever number, whatever video
(13:17):
you want to use. They just want to say we
either lover this is why, we either hate her this
is why, and nobody wants to kind of meet in
the middle on either side.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Well, the only other person that I feel on a
general major sports talk level that we talk about their
performance is Angel Reese. I'm gonna say something. I know
Nafisa Collier is the other captain in the All Star Game,
and she's a star player for the Minnesota Lynx. I
have zero idea if her numbers are up or down
(13:46):
from the year priorct same thing with Brandon Stewart, same
thing with the WNBA MVP Asia Wilson of years past.
I have no idea if her numbers are better or worse.
And so that's another part of not having a real
conversation because I feel like if we are talking about
Jalen Hurts, or we are talking we know the quarterbacks
(14:08):
in the National Football League, you know. And so that's
why it goes back to Clark again being upon in
all of this and people using their information to their
own for their own weapon their own weaponry, is what
I'm trying to say. But it's it's funny because I
just know, I know Angel Reese, we look at her,
we break her down, and we do the same with
with Kitlyn Clark. And honestly, it's funny that you say
(14:32):
that because we had a conversation last year that went
in a bunch of different directions, because Jason Stewart is
usually the executive producer of the show, made the point
that Kitlyn Clark got our picture taking with Aaron Judge
and said that this is the state of baseball because
Caitlin Clark was way more popular than Aaron Judge. I
was in Monty was in that day and I said, well,
(14:53):
wait a second, and then we did a vote around
the room. Remember this, Yeah I wasn't here, but I remember, yeah,
Sam was there, and it was eighty percent in favor
of Caitlyn Clark over Aaron Judge of popularity. And I
guess the point why I bring that up is at
that time, I was saying, Aaron Judge has this longevity
that he has been around, and there is more stock
(15:16):
in the game. A year later, after making the comments,
if Caitlin Clark just say she continues this way or
the play doesn't improve, and I don't want to because
she's not an everyday player, but if this is more
the norm than maybe what she did at the end
of last year, she still made such enormous strides in
the WNBA that I was wrong about last year because
(15:38):
the league has just completely changed because of her. To
have that honest conversation maybe down the line, but the
one thing that I guess the haters will never be
able to truly shoot down and defend is that she
changed the game. And that's my ultimate takeaway. If she
if this ends up being her, let's just say her
body isn't maybe physically meant for this. I mean, she
(16:00):
didn't play it unrivaled, she didn't play in that league,
so this was her really only season that she's been playing.
If maybe physically she's not able to do it, her
mark has been made in the w NBA.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, And I mean that's a conversation to have down
the road, but I do agree. First of all, I
do agree with that is if she retired tomorrow, if
she had, let's God forbid, she had to retire tomorrow,
the impact that she had. And I say this, you know,
it's funny as somebody who you know, I think I
probably have a little bit more of a background in
women's basketball, just because where I grew up in Connecticut,
(16:31):
you know, you mentioned Fisakllier. You know, I grew up
like we would have the Yukon women's game with Alanna
Tarazi and Sue byrd On in the background, and I'm
ready to you know, I'll readily admit no player before
her has had the impact that she has had. And
so I do think it's interesting where you can go ahead.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Say no, no, I will when you're done, but go ahead.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
All I was gonna say was I do wonder if
it's just a basketball thing, because you know, you mentioned Lebron,
and it does feel like there's a side on Lebron.
He's the goat, he's this, he's that. We don't talk
about the fact that in what four of his six
years or five of his seven years with the Lakers,
they've either lost in the first round or missed the
(17:09):
plapp No, he's the goat, he's this, he's that. And
then there's the other side that can't acknowledge that at worst,
he's the second best player of all time, and you
know we should enjoy him while we have him. So
maybe it's a basketball thing. You know, we mentioned football.
Football is on once a week we all watch it.
You know, Patrick Mahomes is playing ten standalone games every
year in a way that most basketball players aren't. I
(17:32):
don't know if that's it, but it does feel like
a uniquely basketball thing.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
And I'll just finish with this. My point with the
Legacy is it doesn't matter how many points she scores.
It doesn't matter with how many assists she has, doesn't
matter if her turnovers or up or down, doesn't matter
if her assist a turnover ratio is magnificent or it's awful.
It's just the fact of what she has done to
change the league. So that was kind of just my
(17:57):
point of talking about legacy. See Whise like, she may
only be this player, but the thing that people can't
ever deny is the changing of the league. In a
year ago, Aaron I thought to myself that she needed
to continue on this rise. Sam was here that day,
even said, because Sam was even making the argument, I
(18:18):
think Moncey was as well of where Caitlyn Clark could go.
And I said, yeah, but Aaron Judge has the equity
because he's been there longer. He's that's why he's more popular.
He's done it for more years and I want to
see what happens with Caitlin Clark. But the thing a
year later that I can't deny is even if she
stays like this, which I hope she doesn't, I hope
this is just a dip in her career and that
(18:39):
she stays healthy. I can't deny what she did to
the WNBA, which should make her the winner of the
Aaron Judge argument. Yeah, no, I don't disagree, Iowa, Sam
or you are you in on the Caitlin Clark understanding
that this just isn't her year as the as the
unofficial fan here at Fox Sports Radio, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
You know you can attribute sophomore slumps to injury, just
people you know, changing their game to defend her. It's
I just think that the Caitlin Clark discussion swings so
far in each direction, right, you guys are touching on
that earlier. It's not really fair to her. It's either
like far in one direction, far in another. And the
fact of the matter is, like I am going to
say that her injury should be an asterisk of for
(19:23):
why she's been playing this way. I just think there's
an immense amount of pressure on her to keep carrying
this league, and she's a year and a half into
her WNBA career, and you know, I think that the
stress of the pressure being on you can break your
body down. I really think that you can have you
can suffer from injuries just from having a lot of
spotlight on you. Maybe she just hasn't had the chance
to really like work with, you know, being a celebrity
(19:47):
and try and improve her game. She needs to get
into a certain headspace and get her body right. We're
halfway through her second year. We could see the second
second half of her season play out. They get to
the playoffs, maybe they make a run to like the
second round or something. Do we call that season? We
call it a success? I think we would. And again
in the WNBA Player of the Year for the SP's
is an interesting conversation. You're giving the they're giving the
(20:08):
award out in July when most sports are on hiatus.
You're halfway through her second year, so it's like, when
do you start the calendar when you look at what
she's done over a course our calendar.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Well, she shouldn't have won a meaningless award anyway. Last night,
you know, Yeah, I don't put much stock into it. No,
I put zero. If I could do less than zero,
I would. I would because I agree negative nine million into.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
I would say that she wasn't the player of the year.
She's the rookie of the year. Maybe for all of
the things she did bringing attention and breaking bars. She's
the player of the year in the SP's eyes. But
it's like where do you start the calendar? Where do
you start looking at the good? The good runs to
a certain amount, and then then it's like a story.
You have your ups and your downs, your triumphs and
your failures.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
The funny thing is that Mantia I do want to
just quick get your thoughts and then we'll put a
bow on it. The sps are for ratings, and there
were ten WNBA teams in action last night, so nobody
of the WNBA was in it. So there's nobody there
to boo. Nobody there, and if you actually cared about
the WIBA, you were probably watching the games that were
being played instead of a stupid award show that doesn't
(21:09):
mean anything. And so they just gave the award to
Kitlin Clark because it's better for their ratings. I'm sure
to see if Caitlin Clark would win. Oh my goodness,
I gotta watch next year. That's the only reason why
she got it. Sorry, Manzi, back to square one. You've
always been a Caitlin Clark backer like Sam.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I have been, and I am and I understand to
an extent when you guys are saying that overall, honestly,
it's just been an underwhelming second year for Kaitlyn Clark.
And it's been underwhelming. Whether it's injury, whether it's stressed,
whether it has just been underwhelming.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, and I just want to reiter at the point
that I made earlier. It doesn't mean that she can't
continue to blossom. You know, I have a reference that
you know, Michael Jordan, we all watched left the last
dance like year two was wiped out by a foot injury,
and I went back and looked it up average thirty
seven the next year. So you know, I'm not saying
I'm just saying.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
It is right.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
This isn't a judgment to what it's going to be
like for the future. Is just right now underwhelming.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I agree Aaron called in an overcorrection, and I just
think that a different audience has different ammunition. Now that's true,
Like the power of the stats or the power of
statistics has now switched in your argument, in your in
not your but in the biased argument around Kaitlin Clark.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
And the only thing I would say is I call
it an overcorrection. But to your point, by definition, if
you've already decided and you're not getting off of that,
then you can't overcorrect because your decision was already made,
probably before she came into the WNBA, but certainly by
the end of the season last year.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
He's Eron Torres. I'm Dan byer Monci is here, as
is Iowa Sam Ryan Bersinger as our executive producer because
I feel a draft our tirect player of the Day
comes up in a bit as well. But I brought
up Aaron Judge and while he may be sitting there
in this shadow of Caitlin Clark, should he really be
in the shadow of others in Major League Baseball? We'll
talk about it next on Fox Sports Radio. Thanks for
listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Be sure to catch us live weekday three to five
Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports
Radio Dot com or stream US live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching fs R.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
By the way, you didn't Monster didn't have an update.
But if you missed any of the SP's last night,
here's a little.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Taste, okay, and the SP goes.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
To, okay, do we have anything outside of you have anything? Okay? Okay? Alright,
goes too okay. There what a waste of time the
sps were. And I know that we've maybe wasted more
(23:43):
time talking about how much of a waste of time
the SP's were. But like, let's on our athletes again.
Who needs an MVP award when you've got this amazing,
amazing Aaron Judge. I don't think he was there last night.
I have no idea. I didn't. I didn't watch it
and see that Aaron Judge is getting ready for the
second half of the Major League Baseball season. He's sitting
(24:05):
there with a career home run total that saw him
be the fastest player to ever reach three hundred and
fifty home runs, and for how quickly he did it,
Aaron one thousand and eighty eight games. Mark McGuire was
the second fastest twelve hundred and eighty That is almost
(24:25):
two hundred games. It is more than a full season
of games for Aaron Judge to reach three hundred and
fifty home runs. He did it in a season plus
quicker than Mark McGuire did. I find that feat remarkable
considering how much I feel that we care about home runs.
So on the heels of us talking about Caitlyn Clark
(24:46):
and last year, I'm trying to make an argument on
how Aaron Judge is more popular. I'm not sure if
that's the case now, aside from our Caitlin Clark conversation,
because I don't think we're making a bigger deal or
as big of a deal out of where he is
right now, the season that he's having right now, and
what Aaron Judge is actually doing on the diamond.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Yeah, it's funny you and I filled in, I believe
for cn R maybe gott leeb a few weeks ago,
the night the day after Clayton Kershaw got his three
thousand strikeout, we started talking about records that will never
be broken and who's on pace for this and what
it would take for whoever, you know who. I can't
even remember who's the next guy online, but anyway, how
long it would take so and so to get there
(25:25):
and so to have a stat like this for a
to your point, a record that is arguably, I mean,
I know it's a little skewed because of the Barry
Bond stuff, but arguably one of the most coveted records
in all of sports. We have a guy living it
every day on you know, on path to be in
the conversation by the end, by the way, playing for the.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yankees too great point.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
You know, I don't mean to be a jerk, and
I know everybody always defaults to the Pittsburgh Pirates or
the Tampa Bay Rays or the Kansas City Royals. He's
not doing this with the Royals on a fourth place team.
He is doing it for the one of the two
pre brands in the sport. And I am surprised. I
actually didn't know about this until you brought it up yesterday.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It's funny because my argument when talking about the pictures
is I just I feel like when they were what
only you know, twenty pitchers to accomplish the feed or
whatever it was, that it shows you how select the
company is, and so that shows you on how special
the players are. And there are certain players who are
young in their career that are just special and will
be treated different throughout. And I feel that Aaron Judge
(26:26):
when we're talking about home runs, is in that conversation.
So I'm sitting there thinking to myself, why aren't we
talking about this more? And I thought, were they talking
about this back in the day when Hank Aaron was
hitting bomb after bomb, where they like, he's sitting there
at three hundred and fifty home runs and he's almost
halfway to Babe Ruth's record of seven fourteen. I don't
(26:49):
think that was the conversation. In fact, throughout other players' careers.
I'm thinking back of when do we really start to
care and it's probably around five, Yeah, five hundred, I
think that's probably the correct number. But I think Judge
is giving us reason to watch, and maybe we aren't
fulfilling our duties of being interested considering the type of
(27:13):
season that he's having and just what he's doing with
home runs. Like I could, I could understand if people
like oh, I didn't realize Era Judge in the running
for you know, the Triple Crown. Totally get that, but
for the fascination that we have for the home run
and what we love and the magical number of it.
I just don't think it's getting enough PUB.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
I mean, think about this two year over year as
he hits his thirties. He turned thirty in April of
twenty twenty two, sixty two home runs that year, thirty
seven the following year. He didn't miss about sixty games,
fifty eight last year, and he obviously has thirty five
at the All Star break right now. So I think
(27:51):
that's just it's just incredible the amount of consistency that
he has had as he hit his thirties. You know,
I do wonder if starting the career a little bit
later because of playing in college obviously at Fresno State,
impacts it at all. But the guy is unbelievable, And
you're right, I don't know exactly why he isn't getting
(28:12):
more PUB. I don't know if it's his personality. I
don't know if Otani just overwhelms the baseball national discourse.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
But the guy's unbelievable. What's also a small portion of this,
and it doesn't directly go into the total number of
games in the three point fifty mark, but there's a
COVID season that great con is that he basically lost
one hundred games. Let's just say misses twenty that year.
Eighty games that he misses half of a season, and
(28:40):
we're talking about greatness. I'm curious to see at the
end of the of his career on if that's going
to end up playing playing a role.
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I'll just say this. You know, it's funny, we don't
really factor that in anywhere else, you know, like with
Lebron just as a you know, historic all time great
It's like, yeah, I guess with the NFL, they basically
played a full season, so that's a little bit different.
But like with Lebron, you know, we talk about how
the season was broken up, how do we judge his
(29:09):
how do we judge I guess maybe it's because baseball
was the only one that really had such a truncated season,
And now that we're talking it out, you know, college
basketball obviously missed the NCAA tournament. College football, I think
most of those SEC teams got in about the same
number of games that they would have in the end.
So maybe maybe it's just a uniquely baseball thing, but
that was something you know, I just saw the twenty
twenty stats and kind of forgot, Oh, that's right. They
(29:31):
played what sixty regular season games something to that effect
in empty stadiums that year.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
And even at the end, it doesn't even out because
that would be in the young, you know, prime of
his career of where he could have had those home runs,
so you could have seen an astronomical number as opposed
to if you were to play, if you were to
save the energy, if we think of it that way,
or elongated his career because he didn't have a full season, Well,
I would rather have the games when i'ms and on
(29:55):
the back end of when I'm in my late thirties
trying to.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Hit twenty eight. He would have been twenty twenty. That's
your physical peak.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yes, absolutely absolutely, he is Eron Torres. I'm Dan Byer.
Only cal Raley right now standing in the way of
Aaron Judge and that triple crown, plus what Showhey Otani does.
I feel overshadows Judge just because of the uniqueness of
show Ay and his greatness. I feel that that also
plays a role in all of this. He is Eron Torres.
(30:23):
I'm Dan Byer in for Doug Gottlieb today on Fox
Sports Radio. Coming up next, the All Star Break is
done tomorrow games resume in the second half takes off.
What storylines are you looking forward to in the second
half of the baseball season. We'll tell you next here
on Fox Sports Radio. Thanks for listening to The Doug
Gotleb Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from three
to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gotlieb Show at
Foxsports Trader dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Dog Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. He's erin Torres. I'm
Dan Byer, going to continue to talk baseball. Asa Bonti
Blanios has a game for us. Cody tweeted in to
my point about Aaron Judge missing games with the COVID
season in twenty twenty and only playing sixty that year.
He said, don't forget major League Baseball at strike shortened
seasons as well. I don't know how they fell with
(31:17):
every certain player, but obviously nineteen ninety four was cut
short by a month and a half. They started, I
think a little bit later in nineteen ninety five for
the season that they had, But sure there are players
as well. Missing almost missing one hundred games is going
to be a big deal. I don't don't know how
(31:37):
it sorts out through history and other workstoppages that happened
in baseball previously. But Cody makes a really good point
that don't feel too bad for Judge because of that,
because there could be other players dealing with it. Interesting. Yeah, well, Laron, Judge,
make our draft. Let's find out with a game.
Speaker 6 (31:59):
This game time saw on.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
The Doug Gottlieb Show. Mancey Milanios is here. What's up, Mancy?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Guys?
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Happy Thursday?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
What have we got today?
Speaker 4 (32:10):
We're gonna play? Is he?
Speaker 2 (32:11):
All right?
Speaker 6 (32:12):
Now?
Speaker 4 (32:12):
I'm just gonna pay?
Speaker 2 (32:13):
What are we I feel a draft?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
That's right, we are gonna be drafting here, fellas. Now
that officially all Star break is over coming back to
the second half of baseball storylines that you look are
looking forward to. It could be anything but baseball related.
And we're just gonna go and order alphabetical order.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
So Aaron, you're gonna go first? Uh?
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Then did me Ryan?
Speaker 4 (32:40):
And we end with Sam?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
All right? All right, this.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Isn't the biggest story. But I'm actually asking this because
I want Bursh and Mancy's perspective on it. Seriously, what's up?
My number one storyline is Sho he o tani the picture. Yeah,
And my question is, and I asked Dan this yesterday
off air, what is the end game like? Is it
he's on no restrictions by October? Is he still only
(33:05):
going two to three innings to four by October? Because
that would feel weird to me. I know there's been
bullpen games in the playoffs, but to start Game two
of the World Series and only go three innings, So
I'm just I'm fascinated, But I'm also curious what the
big picture plan is, and I know you too. I
don't know who wants to take it or whatever, or
if we even have time, but I'm just curious for
(33:26):
the perspective.
Speaker 6 (33:27):
I think the full plan is for him to be
a full fledged starter by October. I think what we've
been seeing for the last month is he's in essence
doing rehab starts at the major league level, which is wild.
And it will depend on the state of the Dodgers'
rotation once they get to October, because if they have
Tyler Glass now and Blake Snell and Yoshiombu Yamamoto and
even Roki Sasaki all healthy by October, then Otani is
(33:51):
really the fourth starter out of those guys, and when
he's pitching at his highest level, he's the best starter
out of those guys if they are full if they
have full health in the staff once they get to October,
I would imagine Otani is probably then being used with
like three four inning starts in mind, and then having
somebody piggyback behind him in playoff games. It'll all depend
(34:14):
on the state of the rotation, but I'm sure the
plan is for him to be a full fledged starter
by then.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Thank you. I appreciate that I'm up at number two.
A lot of things to go, but I'm gonna just
go with the ineptitude of the Rockies. For some reason,
I wasn't wrapped up in the White Sox losing last year,
but the Rockies, I don't know. There's just something about it.
So if they can just continue to lose and not
win and add to their win total, they have a
(34:40):
chance at major League history. Like it's gonna be really difficult,
but if any team can do it, I think it's
the Rockies.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Thirty yeah, five and a half games back at the
All Star there's still time.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
There's still time.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
I'll go up.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
I'm really curious to see what's gonna happen with Juan
Soto this second half in the Mets. As Dodger fans,
Ryan and I saw the Mets get hot last year
when it mattered the most, and it you know, got
interesting there at the end, and I'm really curious to
see what Wan Soda is gonna do and if he's
gonna put them over the top, because he has had
a you know, mixed first half and he's making too
much money to do that. Ryan, you're up next. Let's
(35:14):
uh keep it going here.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
I think what's super weird, guys, is we are just
a little over two weeks away from the trade deadline
and there's been nothing and we don't even really hear
anything about any sort of big names that could potentially
be on the move.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Uh.
Speaker 6 (35:30):
I'm gonna be watching as to what happens in the
trade deadline because either we're gonna have a super dead
deadline because that's why we haven't seen anything, or it's
going to be incredibly active and that's why we haven't
seen anything yet. I think it'll be a lot of
super significant role players that will be moved. But I
don't think we're going to see a gigantic name get
moved at this deadline. But what happens at the deadline
is the storyline I'm watching, all right.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Sir, wrap it up.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
Sam.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
As a younger man, I follow the Phillies, rooted for them.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
So the NL East is a hot competition right now
with the it's in the Phillies and so no one
else is even uh in contention really for the n
L E. So Phillies and the Mets see who can
win that division.
Speaker 4 (36:09):
Nobody mentioned cal Ra and what.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Of you? You didn't know if we were going to
have time for a second round, and we don't.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
We don't, But I was just saying that.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
For the first round.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
I would also say this, I think that that's one,
a sneaky one. Could the Marlins actually do something? Ryan
bursching Or and I took part in survivor pools in
baseball and they've been on fire. They're seven and a
half back of the wild card, so it doesn't seem
like they're clothes.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
But they beat good teams.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yes, yes, they're way down there. Could they be a
team that all of a sudden finds its way up
swimming up stream. Oh, Marlin Jo, that's game time. He's
Aaron Torres. I'm Dan Byer. We flashed back to six
(37:03):
years ago.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.