April 2, 2025 • 37 mins
Dan and Ryan in for Doug as they discuss the Nuggets' double overtime loss to the T-Wolves Tuesday night and the roles Nikola Jokic and Russell Westbrook standing out for opposite reasons. Dan and Ryan have different reactions to Draymond Green's take that the older generation doesn't respect the current general of NBA players. Plus, Isaac Lowenkron takes the guys through a game of "For Better or Worse?".
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to The Doug gotleep Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three five twelve
two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports Radio dot Com,
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Speaker 2 (00:18):
The ad Jahn Morant could be in more hot Water,
Steph Curry's got ice in his veins and one a
night last night in Denver, Ryan Hollins, you got a
busy day, you got a Rockets game tonight, but for
the next two hours it's you and me talking. Oops.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Oh this is gonna be good. Dan.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
You know what, I wouldn't have it any other way.
If I could do this for every game, Dan, I
would love to.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
This would be great. There's plenty to talk about. Double
overtime classic last night Iowa Sam is here. You heard
Isaac Low and Cron at the news tesk, and the
executive producer is Jason Stewart. As we are all broadcasting
live from the tierreq dot Com studios tirerec dot Com.
We'll help you get there at unmatched selection, fast free shipping,
free road as a protection in over ten thousand recommended
(01:02):
installers tyerreq dot com the way tier buying should be.
I bring up Jason's name because Jason is one who
is always amazed by Niicola Jokic, and last night absolutely
no different. Ryan Hollins a triple double, but a sixty
point triple double, sixty one points, ten rebounds and ten assists,
(01:22):
but all in a loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves last night,
one forty to one thirty nine. As much as I
would like to talk about Jokic and Julius, Randall was
talking about Jokic after the game, I can't get away
from Russell Westbrook. So you're you're the NBA vet, You're
(01:44):
a UCLA guy, You're a center. We could go any
which way on this. You look at last night's double
overtime game between the Wolves and Nuggets, with all of
the details that I just gave you, what stands out
in that Western Conference Classic.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Well, here's the thing you gotta stick with you. You
gotta start with Yokic. Okay, a sixty point triple double.
I don't know how many of the I think what
maybe James Harden was closed. James Harden maybe had that
number was maybe the last to hit that in the
modern era that I remember. I don't think we've even
(02:22):
seen that from the greatness of Lebron. But a sixty
point triple double, man's that's out of this world. And
when you play against Yokic, and I've competed against him,
he plays the right way. He makes the right play
every time down to court, and that's what honestly makes
him extremely special. That's when you look up and you go,
(02:42):
this guy is out of this world. If you back up,
he hits a three. If you get up, he drives
by you. When he's stuck, he hits a fade away.
If he draws too, he hits the open shooter every
single time. And when you're when you're looking at Jokic,
I think that we're gonna we're not. I'm gonna say this, Dan,
we might not just be talking the greatest center ever
(03:06):
when it's all said and done for him. We might
be talking possibly the greatest player ever. And I think
obviously there's more ahead. He'd have to win more championships.
But obviously if he continues that, we're talking about possibly
the greatest player ever and we're and we're gonna hurt
(03:27):
some films cause you hurt, Dan, you hurt feelings when
you do that. When you pass up Magic Johnson, it
hurts some feelings.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
When you pass up Larry Bird. Okay, it hurts some feelings.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I get it. I completely understand the hurt feelings portion
of this. And you were spot on with the James
Harden triple double January of twenty eighteen, he had a
sixty point, eleven assists, ten rebound game. Jokicic last night
had sixty one points, ten assists, ten rebounds. Luka Dancych
(03:58):
the only other to have a sixty point triple double
sixty points, twenty one rebounds in tennysis in a game
against the Knicks a couple of years ago. This is
the point with Jokic. That and last night they were
playing without Jamal Murray, di not have Michael Porter Junior.
It's the reason I bring that up is I get
guys that are missing all the time. I'm not saying
(04:20):
that that's an excuse, Ryan, but they didn't win last night,
and so Jokic's performance almost in a way, I don't
want to say it goes out the window, but there
is there is a there is a back end to
it that is not fulfilling, if that's maybe the way
to put it, and the reason why, I just think
(04:42):
it's it's so crazy to try to decide on who
we should be talking about, because you're right, it is Jokic,
it is the greatness. And it's another example of a
three time MVP putting a team on his shoulders. And
I think that's maybe another part of the discussion that
maybe we're gonna have if we're gonna go down your road.
(05:04):
But it's just the fact of it's a no brainer.
But it's also a game Ryan where Russell Westbrook misses
a free throw that could have given the Nuggets a
two point lead, miss is a layup that could have
given them a three point lead, and then commits what
was the foul that ended up costing them the game.
(05:27):
On the Timberwolves radio network.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Jokiz tries to bat it towards the other end of
the floor, but the horn sounds it's over now heel
has come through to clutch free throws to win it
for the Walls.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
That was the final call. That was not the foul
on the three, but the three that set up the
free throws for Minnesota to win the game. The foul
was committed by Russell Westbrook, and I'm just saying to myself,
only Russell Westbrook, this can only happen to Russell Westbrook.
Ryan Hollins. Where a historic night for Nikola Jokic on
(06:07):
the verge of leading his team, carrying them on his shoulders,
But it's only Russell Westbrook that is put into this position.
And I use Kobe in the situation of Kobe joked
about it. He would never go zero for twelve or
oh for thirteen because he would shoot ten or fifteen
more times, Like he's not going to go out only
shooting ten or eleven twelve times in a game. And
I feel like that's Westbrook. They're shorthanded last night, Westbrook
(06:30):
feels that he's Russell Westbrook. Unable to get the free
throw in a way of trying to seal the deal.
Maybe other players would have pulled the basketball out to
work some clock be put on the free throw line.
He goes in for the layup, crotches that between the
rim and the backboard, and then commits the follow because
he's messed up the last two possessions. But he's so
(06:51):
prideful and he is Russell Westbrook, where I feel other
players may have salked in that situation, may have not
tried to go on tilt. But in the end, Russell
Westbrook ends up ruining Nikola Jokicic's night. And that's why
I can't get away from this Westbrook deal.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
And here's the best thing about Denver and Westbrook that
I'm loving is they accept Russ for who he is.
And sometimes those mistakes are who he is. You gotta
own it. And again, to even be in that position,
Russ is gonna play valuable minutes. He comes off the bench,
he brings a spark. And here's the thing, Russell like
my little brother man. I watched him come up from
(07:30):
UCLA and put into work and unapologetically become who he is.
And I also know the one thing that Russe needs,
and that's working well. I played for Mike Malone. Now
I bring up Mike Malone because Mike Malone is a
truth teller. If he didn't feel like Boogie Cousins was
bringing it in practice or being the best version of himself,
(07:50):
he'd nick come out of practice, he'd get on his head,
he'd bring those things to the table. So unapologetically. Mike
Malone is also going to tell Russ, you messed up.
Hey Russ, you got to be better. Hey Russ, you
need to make this play or that play, or you
just need to be more fundamental. But the one thing
that he's been, and I believe that the Nuggets were
(08:12):
kind of falling off from from their championship year, is
just energy. You know, someone to bring energy, someone to ignite,
someone to keep them motivated. And you know what Russ
has been at. So for Denver, they're going to accept
the good with the bad. And Dan, if you've got Russ,
you gotta do that.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I get you know, I get it. And it's not
a pile alone. It wasn't meant to to pile on
Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Would you would you agree that they're like nobody is
nobody is having that sequence in the NBA, maybe maybe
three or four players because what I mean by that,
Ryan is and we're going to get back to the
Jokics part because I feel that there is there is
a connection to all of this. But that means Westbrook's
got the ball late in the game, twenty seconds left,
(08:56):
He's at the free throw line, He's also in the
right spot of the right Tom on a turnover, makes
the right pass to Christian Brown. Brown gives it back
to him and he just ends up missing the free throw,
but then goes completely on tilt and trying to get
back on defense and trying to make the play. I
just feel that anybody else in the league is maybe
not doing one or the other. Maybe they are pulling
(09:17):
the ball out, maybe they're giving the ball back to
Christian Brown on the fast break in different situations. But
because who he is, who he is, and there's a
lot of good with that that Russell Westbrook's the only
one that would have that sort of sequence in the NBA,
because other players may shy away from it, and maybe
better players would end up coming through and making the
basket at that time. That's I just think that that
(09:39):
situation was so fit for Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
You're right, I'm sitting here like Dan like as you're
saying saying it, I'm running through my mind and I'm
going who else may come came up and even be
trusted to be in a game or needed to be
in a game in that situation and yet could make
that type of play.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You know, have you is the one who the crown,
right I mean, and so he does wear it. And
when you've got someone like Jokich who again sixty one,
ten and ten, it just ends up magnifying that sort
of did Now. Now, in the grand scheme of things,
I don't think it's going to be it's gonna you're
gonna look back at this night. You're gonna remember the
(10:19):
sixty one, ten and ten. Then you are gonna remember
the one forty to one thirty nine. Even in the
Mavericks game and the James Harden Trouble double, I assume
they won, but I don't know. And I think at
some point, probably five years down the line will be like,
all right, Jokic had that. Maybe we'll forget that it
was in a a in a double overtime game. But
in the grand scheme of things, back to your point
(10:39):
about about jo Kich, I think that this moves on
into the you know, in in to the sunset, into
the ether or whatever the case is. We remember the numbers,
and we also now will remember a quote, and I
think this says it all. This was Julius Randall of
the Timberwolves after last night's game that they beat the
Denver Nuggets talking about what life is like guarding the
(11:02):
Kola Jokic in the NBA.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
I told him he's incredible like that, dude is absolutely ridiculous.
Brof he's touch around the rim. He missed Someboddy's too.
I guess when you swore sixty one, you're gonna miss something.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Damn.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Bro that's I can't lie.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
He shooting turn around off the wrong foot. Do you
know Fadantik is right? He's doing all type of crazy.
I don't even know how to explain.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
It is that all others are on the league field. Well,
Julius Randall expressed last night.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Let me let me tell you something.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
For a guy like Julius Rando or another NBA player
fresh off the game, to give you that type of respect.
Players don't like to give respect. We don't like to
when somebody kicks our butt. We don't like to speak
up and say that someone kicked our butter. How good
they are. That's how good he is. You know that
that you take your hat off and you give that respect.
(11:59):
You know, it's funny comes to mind, and obviously at
even at a higher level. I remember we were in
the Eastern Conference of Eastern Finals, right, and we're playing
against Lebron in the heat, and you know Paul Pierce,
Ray Allen KG. The mindset was, hey, Lebron's not tough enough.
You know, when it comes down to execution, it comes
down to a big moment. Our guys are tough. We've
(12:20):
seen it before. Our guys know how to execute. You know,
Paul Pierce can work off the ELBOWKG, He's going to
be in a pick and pop. Even Rondo would step
up in a big shot, do it's needed. Rey Allen
is certified and proven in those moments. You can't leave
him pick your poison in that space, right, And and
the mindset was there, like we got him, we got
And when Lebron, well, Lebron showed out and he had
(12:41):
that game I think it was what game six? He
had that legendary game six. And then when the game
was over, I remember I watched.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Paul go.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
He's like that, he's the best. He's good enough for
a different scenario. But when you see guys go out
and prove it, that's the greatest respect that you can
get is from you know, somebody that you work with
or somebody that is a competitor, you know. So you know,
if I do a show and Dan Bayer goes out
and you know, hey, that Brian Hollins is something else.
(13:10):
That guy really brings it to the table. That's a compliments.
That's the best one that you can get, you know,
because the present family, the fans are going to be
there with the truth tellers. But when you're a competitor
brings that to the table, it's just different.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Dan, Yeah, I get it. No, and you do bring it.
I will say that he does. Ryan Hollins does always
bring it, just like Nikola Jokich does us. It's crazy
because it's over and over again for Jokisch, and so
you saying like he could be on track for greatest
of all time. I don't think that he's going to be.
(13:43):
I just I don't think that's going to be the case.
I think that there's a lot of stuff that has
to go with it. I think that what he has
done though in this short period is nothing short of amazing.
And now he's put himself again back into an MVP conversation.
Probably won't win it, but still we know what the
MVP voting is. My question nowt comes to this because
(14:04):
I've even been critical of what's going on in Milwaukee
because the Bucks have tried to do everything around Giannis
to make it work and it hasn't since they won
a title. And I know we're only a couple of
years removed from Denver doing so. And again last night
they weren't playing with Jamal Murray that in andn Michael
Porter Junior. You know, but at some point, when are
we going to start to look at the Nuggets and
(14:25):
Nuggets and say, Okay, he's got one championship and is
this team doing enough to surround him in a way.
Where As a Bucks fan, Ryan, it is increasingly frustrating
to see every move not come to fruition or something
go wrong in their pursuit of trying to win another championship.
(14:48):
And Denver again only a couple of years removed from
winning at all, but they're sitting there at number three
in the West right now. I don't see tons of
people picking them to come out of the West to
win it this year. That's just the other. The next
domino that I wonder with Denver is where we're looking at,
is when do you start making those moves for Jokic,
Because now you feel that You've had five straight seasons
(15:10):
of MVP caliber play and you're gonna come away with
a title out of it. I just I think that
that conversation could be on the horizon right now.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
The answer is right now, it's the answers.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Right nobody's and nobody. If this is the Lakers, would
obviously be having this conversation. But nobody's having that conversation
about the Denver Nuggets right now. But we alwayte I
don't want to say wasting because that's not the right term,
but maybe we're not maximizing what he is bringing to
the table for that organization. Again, they only wanted they
(15:44):
wanted two years ago. So I completely understand the uh,
the the timetable that we're in. But again, when you're
looking at the greatness of who he is and what
he's done, like, man.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Hey, hey, hey, Dan, I answer that question for you
know the biggest problem, you know, the biggest problem.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
He takes his role players and he makes him.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Play so well, Okay, Bruce Brown, and they play so
well you can't afford to keep them, Jeff Green, you
can't bring them back like they play so well that
like you have to pay the guys that are there,
so it's not like, ah, we can't see moving forward.
You're like, man, this guy fins Porter Junior. He's big,
he shoots the basketball, he stretches the floor, you know,
(16:27):
like like you gotta pay Aaron Gordon's excellent back cutting
and play it off like you gotta pay the guys
that are there so they get strap for cash.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, I'll tell you what. I heard something within the
last twenty four to forty eight hours in talking about
Jokicchen saying, you basically want Jokics to score because when
everybody else is getting theirs, it makes them that much
more difficult. So if you're gonna pick a poison and
they lost last night, you know, I know it wasn't
necessarily his fault, but like there would be an example
(16:58):
of it. But people say, that's what makes them so
dangerous is when he is sitting there and he's what
top two, top three and assists in the NBA, When
he can move the basketball like that, it makes them
much better. But maybe you just let Jokic get his
and try to lock everybody else down. Maybe that's the
secrets of the success of stopping the Nuggets.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Yeah, when you play against great players that can do both.
That's what you do when we compete against Luca or
you compete against Lebron and those guys, you say, you
know he can score or he can assist, but he
can't get both, you know, so you make your mind
up and what you're trying to do to disrupt those guys.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Absolutely, And I know you didn't hate it last night.
Is it gave a little separation for your Rockets and
that two seed if it comes to that. By the way,
big win from Minnesota now pulling even with Memphis for
that sixth spot in the West, and we all know
what happens with the sixth spot. You don't have to,
you know, playing tournament for the winner or whoever claims
(17:57):
the sixth spot, seventh spot, completely different story.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
App Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I'm Dan Byer.
He's the NBA vet Ryan Holland sitting in for Doug
today on this Wednesday. Doug will be back tomorrow shortly
after the show. Our podcast will be going up. If
you missed any of today's show, be sure to check
out the podcast. Just search Doug Gottlieb wherever you get
your podcasts. Be sure to also follow rate and review
(18:31):
the podcast. Again, you search Doug Gottlieb wherever you get
your podcasts. And if you did miss it, Ryan Holland
says that, yeah, Nicola Jokic could be on track, could
be on track to maybe being the goat. A lot
of time left. You gotta win more titles and I
still think Ryan having a center as the goat in
today's day and age would be a tough sell. But
(18:54):
you can't argue the success over the last five years.
It's just how much can Jokic then can continue on
in his career.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Absolutely, he would need a significant amount amount more rings.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
You're not wrong in Denver.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
You'd have to attract free agents there to play with him.
You know, it is hard in Denver because maybe you
could sell the city and not that Denver is a
bad city, but it's not La it's not New York,
it's not Miami. It's a little easier to sell there.
And they're so good. They also tie up is it's
hard for them to get draft picks. You know, they
can get solid players, good players, but you may not
(19:30):
get that at second superstar. So you've got to be
really creative through free agency. You got to be really
great in the draft on getting a potential prospect. You
got to take a risk.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Michael. I don't know if you know this day. Michael
Porter Junior was a risk.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
He came in with back problems, which if you got
back in hip problems as an NBA player, that is
almost that's like the kiss of death. That's something that
you may not ever was sure.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Right, Yeah, why did he play like three games at
Missouri or something like that.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
But Michael Porter Jr. Was the best player in the
country in high school. He was a phenom. I mean,
he could jump out the gym, he could shoot. There's
nothing that he couldn't do. So you know, they took
a risk, and you'd have to go in and you
have to kind of draft those players that might be
injured or little harder brown the edges and take a
chance on him and to bring talent in.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
He is Ryan Hollins. I'm Dan Byer in for Doug
Gottlieb liverothetirerech dot Com Studios and Draymond Green is at
it again in a series, in a season, I should say,
in the NBA, where one of our biggest storylines is
the NBA's biggest star fighting with a media member. Draymond Green,
a star in his own right, has his own podcast,
(20:45):
The Draymond Green Show with Baron Davis, and at this exchange. Recently,
Ryan Hollins about rispect with the older generation.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
People say you must respect each era, but the past
eras don't respect this air.
Speaker 9 (20:59):
I don't think that that's true me.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
You don't see some of the things these guys say.
Speaker 9 (21:03):
The respect from the old is really do the young
dudes with us?
Speaker 8 (21:07):
Do they know who we are?
Speaker 9 (21:08):
That's why you get a lot of hate from the
older generation, because they just want to be kept alive.
One era always think that the other area is sorry
until you leave the game and have an appreciation for
the talent that you have to play against.
Speaker 8 (21:23):
I disagree in the fact that no, like these eras
don't respect us.
Speaker 10 (21:27):
Like I've seen several guys talk over and over and
over again, not in the positive life. I don't think
that respect is passed down to us from the other generations.
But I think people are quick to say, oh, you
got to respect them because they came before I don't
agree with that.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
You absolutely have to absolutely respect the people who came
before you, because.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
My respect is earned, and what you did to somebody
else don't necessarily earn you respect. Just because you played
before me does not mean you deserve respect. I'm sorry,
all right, but.
Speaker 10 (22:01):
God had in his plan for you to be born
before me, and you just deserve respect because of that.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
Nah My mom may raised me that way.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
There's a lot to unpack there, Ryan Hollins, Okay, yeah,
he has. I'll say this first things first, when Draymond
Green is talking about the older generation, he's talking about
two people. He's talking about Charles Barkley and he's talking
about Shaquille O'Neil. That is it. Those are the two
(22:35):
people that Draymond Green is talking about. So when we
have this conversation of the older generation, Draymond I think
feels that Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal speak for the
entire generation.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
You forgot the big Oh.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Who's that?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Oscar Robinson had some words for Draymond too.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I think in general, though, I think whenever like this,
and I didn't. I didn't get the work. You can
fill me in.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
You pretty much said all Draymond's ever done is set
screens for step Curry and he should be happy.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Okay, I don't want to. I don't want to hear
him speak.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I'm kind of like paraphrasing, Yeah, okay, I that would.
I would. I would feel offended if I was Draymond
Green in that case. But when you look at what
Oscar Robertson did in his career, I don't know how
you couldn't look at those numbers and say I have
(23:30):
respect for what he did during his generation. This two
way street that Draymond feels that it is is it's
fine in the in the in the real world, if
someone wants to knock on my door and walk in
my house and be disrespectful, I didn't know who they were. Yeah,
they obviously don't have my respect. They can leave, they
(23:50):
can get out of there. I don't need them around.
But when you're in a profession and when you're setting
the building blocks to have the game be where it
is today, for Draymond Green to do what he is
able to do, I just think that there has to
be the business that we are in right now. We
are in hallways where some of the radio greats have worked.
(24:13):
Casey Cassem's studio plaque still has not been taken down
in our studios because there's respect there. And I just
feel that Draymond Green is in this bizarre world. And
I'm so glad that Baron Davis spoke up and said
what he said. But I just think that Draymond Green
is focused on two and now maybe three players because
he says that they said it often and who talks
(24:35):
more than Chuck and Shack because of inside the NBA.
But that's who I feel that he's talking about. And
I just feel that his angle on respect is just
one that is completely misguided and would make the old
generation not respect the new generation. Like Draymond Green is.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Dan in this I can honestly take it both ways.
And the reason I take it both ways you have
to weigh in all the factors. So what's pretty cool
about working in Houston with the Rockets is I get
a chance to work with a great Calvin Murphy.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And Calvin Murphy He's got some.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Of the most amazing stories you can get, and you
got to understand that today's player even my generation of
playing may have not been able to play back then,
not from a talent standpoint, But can you fly commercial?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Can you not have your masseuse?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Can you get out there with some Chuck Taylor's Calvin
Murphy is and Dan, I want you to.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Look this up. If you're don't do it. If you're driving,
if you're listening to your driving, don't look this up.
But go look up a hockey helmet.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Calvin Murphy gets gets knocked upside the head pretty much
just unconscious. There's no conculsion protocol, dude. And they say,
Calvin Murphy, go out there. He's wearing a hockey helmet, dude,
He's wearing a literal hockey helmet on in an NBA game.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And that's the joke.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
That's the joke, and and that's how they dealt with
concussions at that time. So when they say could this
guy play in this era, it's not about the game.
Jannis out to the coupo and Bill Russell and Mianis out.
The couple would run laps around what Bill Russell did.
But at that time, if you'd have seen Giannis out
to the coupo and said go stand underneath the basket.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Now today's NBA, they're like, hey, you can dribble a
little bit, push the ball full court, you know, expand
your game. So the different eras and different play styles
come in a factor.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
But from a commercial setting of dealing with there's just
so many elements of can't these guys.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Can't these guys make it out of Season one?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You're so spot on about that, and I don't want
to call them spoiled. But things are better now than
they were way back then compared to I mean, there's
there's no doubt about it. I wonder about this generation.
Ryan Hollinson, I consider you in a different generation than
I am. I'm about ten years older than you, give
or take.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You look cool.
Speaker 8 (26:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I appreciate that. Oh that's very very kind of you.
I just I look at like generations like decades in
that way. Maybe not twenty five years when we're talking NBA,
we're talking maybe.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Every time up two thousand nineties.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yes, yeah, yep, that's that's exactly right. I would say
this when it comes to looking at the way that
the current NBA player is, and I don't know if
it's I feel it's this way. I don't have any
sixteen seventeen, eighteen year old kids. My son's only three,
but I remember my generation loving the NBA, knowing stats,
(27:33):
knowing players, knowing teams, knowing the whole deal. And I
don't know if today's and I'm not I wasn't a
high level basketball player by any means, but I don't
know if the of if young players nowadays love the NBA.
They may love playing two K or video games or
whatever the way it was. But I feel like we
(27:56):
embraced the NBA, the teams, and its players when I
was growing up, and I don't know if recent generations
do that anymore. And I think that's also a part
of it, where maybe they're just indifferent to what the
past is. But I feel like people my age because
we loved what we came up with, which also means
we loved what was in the past. It's a different feeling.
(28:17):
I think that has something to do with all of.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
This poe product of your environment. These guys know their value,
and not only do they play the game, they know
the money that they can make. They also know if
I go out in an organization and this has happened,
go ask Isaiah Thomas okay, not Zeke as Isaiah Thomas.
(28:41):
My Isaiah Thomas then went to Washington played for the
Celtics and was asked to go out in a game
and play through an injury, and then he ends up
having hip surgery and essentially derailed his career. He had
an all star career, but he wants to put it
all on the floor for his team. Blake Griffin goes
out in Detroit, plays in the playoffs, his knees falling off,
and Blake Griffin hadn't been doing the same shoot he's
(29:04):
calling games. He's in our field now, Dan, So there
are a number of guys that whose careers were derailed
and understand their value. And you can look back and
say or you can get on Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi Leonard
if he listens to some of those doctors won't even
be playing in the NBA anymore. You know, I know
it's frustrating when you see some of these guys take
time off but their bodies could not handle it, and
(29:27):
it's really unfortunate and a game just passes you by.
But my point, Dan, you can call it soft, maybe
it's smart. Maybe it's knowing your value. Maybe it's knowing
to live to fight again another day. And I do
think there's some elements, whether it's soft just get out
and play, go work year you're work up through some
discomfort or do you have a major injury looming? And
I think that's the challenge with some of these guys.
(29:48):
And again, product of your environment, are you someone that
just loves the game? Look, Dan, the circuits be told.
When I speak to kids in their groups, I go
out in. The one thing that I tell them is, guys,
I don't care what your path is. Find something that
you love. The reason I say it, Dan, And you
can tell me if I'm wrong here. I feel like
I've never worked a day in my life. They paid
(30:09):
me to play basketball. I'd have done it for free, Bro,
I'd have been at the YMCA playing. And this is
more to your generation speaking and I speak about it.
I would talk about the game and things that I
love for free, so you enjoy it. And that's something Dan,
you're apparently a lot older. I thought we were the
same age. You looked great, But you know we still
have some of those similar values where trying to play, go,
(30:30):
trying to practice go. These new guys are like my
knee's a little sore.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Sure I listen, it's just Draymond. And by the way,
I don't think that in Draymond and looking up the
comments that you mentioned did address the big old things,
saying like I'm not going to come on here and
I'll go, you know, tit for tat with Oscar Robertson
and disrespect one of the greats. But I think it's
fair to say that it would probably be put in
(30:56):
line with the other other comments that are out there.
But why are we sitting here fighting with each other?
I remember remember that great show Open Court that Knows
on NBA TV, and it had all the great sitting around.
I remember like Chris Webber and other guys like just
waxing poetically about Bob McAdoo being like he was the
first stretch for that you saw in the NBA. And
(31:20):
I feel that there's this generation of players now that
feel they're the first of everything. And maybe that may
be me being get off my lawn guy, but I
feel that there were previous generations that appreciated the history,
more appreciated where their positions came from, and nowadays it's
I'm it, I'm the thing. I'm what it is and
(31:40):
that's enough for them, And I think that's a shame.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Well, here's the thing. It's like the history books.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
It's hard to see if you were not like the
greatest ever or you know, highlights that can live forever.
You don't really know somebody's game, you know, like like
a David Thompson who could jump out the gym, who
was unbelievable. A lot of guys don't know, oh what
David Thompson was. Hey, A lot of guys, hey, doctor
j These young guys don't know doctor j Hey. The
(32:06):
current NBA players will tell you, I don't really know
how good Michael Jordan was.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
No legit they have.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
They do not know how good Michael Jordan was. So
they're like, oh, man Lebron all day, we haven't seen
anything like them. No, Michael Jordan's unbelievable. Without Michael, there's
no Kobe, there's no Lebron.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Sure, I I I There's there's a lot to unpack.
We could keep going on, and I think your point
is fair. I just don't think that they even know
a lot of players, like you know, how many people
have Wallace.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Bottom line, no olive it. It's respect.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Dan, It's respect and no one wants to feel slighted,
and that's what happens a lot of times. Recency biased,
out of sight, out of mind.
Speaker 7 (32:44):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Doug Gotlib Show on Fox Sports Radio. He's the NBA
vet Ryan Hollins also the analyst the Houston Rockets television broadcast.
They got the jazz tonight?
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Is that what's coming to town jazz tonight?
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Alright?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yes, Sir Houston.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Sitting in the two spot in the west, he is
Run Holland's I'm Dan buyer in for Doug today Ryan.
Every day at this time of the Doug Gottlieb Show,
we like to go over to the news desk and
play a game. Let's do it with Isaac Lowingcron.
Speaker 7 (33:21):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
All right, Isaac, what do you got today?
Speaker 11 (33:28):
Unfortunately, today's game is not finger guns. Instead, it's for
better or Worse? And because it is final four weeks,
that begs the obvious question. First of all, better or worse?
Auburn or Florida? Who are you taking who's better, who's worse.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Gosh, I'm gonna say Florida's favored in this game. Las
Vegas has them favored, but also Florida has the win
over Auburn when they played earlier this year. I think
Auburn's completely healthy. Florida right now better than Auburn. Ryan Hollins,
I do, Dan unfortunately, agree with you.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
I think even though I've got a bit of a
gripe with Florida Steele, they beat us in the National
Championship game. I think they execute at a very high clip.
I think their guards are shot makers and not shot takers.
I think they really got tested in their last battle,
and I am gonna lean towards Florida. I do think
(34:31):
they've got the advantage here. Although Auburn, oh, they got
some athletes, they got some aththleites over there. I'm gonna
tell you that right.
Speaker 11 (34:37):
Now, I should have given Joe Keem Noah, Charlie Horst
in a lamp line. All right, next item, sorry again,
to bring that back up next night, A better or
worse Duke or Houston.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You want to go first, Hollins, Oh Man, this is
no brainer.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
This is Houston.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
This is gonna be the With all due respect, you know,
Duke is gonna come back down to earth. Uh Houston
plays a style that nobody wants to play again, let
alone uh in In in the tournament. They defend, they trap,
they rebound, they hit you. They're gonna put their hands
on you. And it's a motivated team. Calvin Samson is
(35:16):
working magic over there. Kelvin Samson, with crying tears, would
see your night because he didn't want to see his
guys go. I'm gonna tell you right now, Calvin Sampson
not only will win this next game, but Houston will
be national champions.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Right in your backyard.
Speaker 7 (35:32):
I was.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I was just gonna say, I think Duke's by far
the best team in the Final four.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, you just like Cooper Flag No, no.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
What, Yeah, he's from America's dairy Land. Yes, I just know.
I think that they also play defense there. Yeah, they're
Duke's Duke's Special.
Speaker 11 (35:52):
All right, Well, we know how Hallens is gonna answer
this one too, but I'll ask it anyway, for better
or worse, Nikola Jokic or Shay Gilders, Alex, I don't like.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
How you just think you know how I'm gonna answer, okay,
but I'm gonna have to like it. I'm gonna tell
you right now, there's nothing sexy about Yokich winning an MVP.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
There's nothing, with all due respect, that pushes the league forward.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Okay, with yo Kich winning MVP, Shake Gilgen's Alexander will
edge him out, not necessarily because he was the better player,
not because he was more valuable, but you can see
his team's success, and his team's success will be rewarded.
The work that he put in last year will be rewarded.
He's a brand that you can get behind. He's a
fashion icon. He will talk to talk and walk the walk.
(36:38):
Then he is someone that the league can push to
the forefront. So Shake gils Is Alexander will win because
of his team's success.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Okay, but the question was who's better? I think we
both think Yogic is better. Right, he said who will win?
Speaker 3 (36:52):
He said who will win? Dude?
Speaker 11 (36:53):
I said for better or worse? You have to feel
free to take that in any direction you want. Final
item in honor of the now late great Val Kilmer,
Val Kilmer in Top Gun or Val Kilmer in Real Genius,
Better or worse?
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Better or one a maybe gotta love real Genius, all right,
that came first, Gotta love the I always feel that
Val Kilmer took on that personality as someone who wasn't
a big movie guy. I think he always looked at
him as like the guy from Top Gun. I know
we got some big Val Kilmer fans over here, Ryan Hollins,
Jason Stewart's one of them. Did we crunch you for
(37:30):
time on Val Kilmer? You want to do it on
the other side, all right, let's do that. Yes, they
were asking me. They know I'm not a movie guy.
On what Val Kilmer movies I see? I just don't
see a lot of movies. But I saw Top Gun
and I saw real Genius.
Speaker 8 (37:43):
He is.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Ryan Holland's I'm Dan Byer, sad sad news. Though everybody
heartbroken over the passing of Val Kilmer, it's final four
week Ryan Hollins was there. He'll tell you what it's
like next
Thanks for listening to The Doug gotleep Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three five twelve
two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station
for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports Radio dot Com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching apps palk.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
The ad Jahn Morant could be in more hot Water,
Steph Curry's got ice in his veins and one a
night last night in Denver, Ryan Hollins, you got a
busy day, you got a Rockets game tonight, but for
the next two hours it's you and me talking. Oops.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Oh this is gonna be good. Dan.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
You know what, I wouldn't have it any other way.
If I could do this for every game, Dan, I
would love to.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
This would be great. There's plenty to talk about. Double
overtime classic last night Iowa Sam is here. You heard
Isaac Low and Cron at the news tesk, and the
executive producer is Jason Stewart. As we are all broadcasting
live from the tierreq dot Com studios tirerec dot Com.
We'll help you get there at unmatched selection, fast free shipping,
free road as a protection in over ten thousand recommended
(01:02):
installers tyerreq dot com the way tier buying should be.
I bring up Jason's name because Jason is one who
is always amazed by Niicola Jokic, and last night absolutely
no different. Ryan Hollins a triple double, but a sixty
point triple double, sixty one points, ten rebounds and ten assists,
(01:22):
but all in a loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves last night,
one forty to one thirty nine. As much as I
would like to talk about Jokic and Julius, Randall was
talking about Jokic after the game, I can't get away
from Russell Westbrook. So you're you're the NBA vet, You're
(01:44):
a UCLA guy, You're a center. We could go any
which way on this. You look at last night's double
overtime game between the Wolves and Nuggets, with all of
the details that I just gave you, what stands out
in that Western Conference Classic.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Well, here's the thing you gotta stick with you. You
gotta start with Yokic. Okay, a sixty point triple double.
I don't know how many of the I think what
maybe James Harden was closed. James Harden maybe had that
number was maybe the last to hit that in the
modern era that I remember. I don't think we've even
(02:22):
seen that from the greatness of Lebron. But a sixty
point triple double, man's that's out of this world. And
when you play against Yokic, and I've competed against him,
he plays the right way. He makes the right play
every time down to court, and that's what honestly makes
him extremely special. That's when you look up and you go,
(02:42):
this guy is out of this world. If you back up,
he hits a three. If you get up, he drives
by you. When he's stuck, he hits a fade away.
If he draws too, he hits the open shooter every
single time. And when you're when you're looking at Jokic,
I think that we're gonna we're not. I'm gonna say this, Dan,
we might not just be talking the greatest center ever
(03:06):
when it's all said and done for him. We might
be talking possibly the greatest player ever. And I think
obviously there's more ahead. He'd have to win more championships.
But obviously if he continues that, we're talking about possibly
the greatest player ever and we're and we're gonna hurt
(03:27):
some films cause you hurt, Dan, you hurt feelings when
you do that. When you pass up Magic Johnson, it
hurts some feelings.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
When you pass up Larry Bird. Okay, it hurts some feelings.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I get it. I completely understand the hurt feelings portion
of this. And you were spot on with the James
Harden triple double January of twenty eighteen, he had a
sixty point, eleven assists, ten rebound game. Jokicic last night
had sixty one points, ten assists, ten rebounds. Luka Dancych
(03:58):
the only other to have a sixty point triple double
sixty points, twenty one rebounds in tennysis in a game
against the Knicks a couple of years ago. This is
the point with Jokic. That and last night they were
playing without Jamal Murray, di not have Michael Porter Junior.
It's the reason I bring that up is I get
guys that are missing all the time. I'm not saying
(04:20):
that that's an excuse, Ryan, but they didn't win last night,
and so Jokic's performance almost in a way, I don't
want to say it goes out the window, but there
is there is a there is a back end to
it that is not fulfilling, if that's maybe the way
to put it, and the reason why, I just think
(04:42):
it's it's so crazy to try to decide on who
we should be talking about, because you're right, it is Jokic,
it is the greatness. And it's another example of a
three time MVP putting a team on his shoulders. And
I think that's maybe another part of the discussion that
maybe we're gonna have if we're gonna go down your road.
(05:04):
But it's just the fact of it's a no brainer.
But it's also a game Ryan where Russell Westbrook misses
a free throw that could have given the Nuggets a
two point lead, miss is a layup that could have
given them a three point lead, and then commits what
was the foul that ended up costing them the game.
(05:27):
On the Timberwolves radio network.
Speaker 5 (05:29):
Jokiz tries to bat it towards the other end of
the floor, but the horn sounds it's over now heel
has come through to clutch free throws to win it
for the Walls.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
That was the final call. That was not the foul
on the three, but the three that set up the
free throws for Minnesota to win the game. The foul
was committed by Russell Westbrook, and I'm just saying to myself,
only Russell Westbrook, this can only happen to Russell Westbrook.
Ryan Hollins. Where a historic night for Nikola Jokic on
(06:07):
the verge of leading his team, carrying them on his shoulders,
But it's only Russell Westbrook that is put into this position.
And I use Kobe in the situation of Kobe joked
about it. He would never go zero for twelve or
oh for thirteen because he would shoot ten or fifteen
more times, Like he's not going to go out only
shooting ten or eleven twelve times in a game. And
I feel like that's Westbrook. They're shorthanded last night, Westbrook
(06:30):
feels that he's Russell Westbrook. Unable to get the free
throw in a way of trying to seal the deal.
Maybe other players would have pulled the basketball out to
work some clock be put on the free throw line.
He goes in for the layup, crotches that between the
rim and the backboard, and then commits the follow because
he's messed up the last two possessions. But he's so
(06:51):
prideful and he is Russell Westbrook, where I feel other
players may have salked in that situation, may have not
tried to go on tilt. But in the end, Russell
Westbrook ends up ruining Nikola Jokicic's night. And that's why
I can't get away from this Westbrook deal.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
And here's the best thing about Denver and Westbrook that
I'm loving is they accept Russ for who he is.
And sometimes those mistakes are who he is. You gotta
own it. And again, to even be in that position,
Russ is gonna play valuable minutes. He comes off the bench,
he brings a spark. And here's the thing, Russell like
my little brother man. I watched him come up from
(07:30):
UCLA and put into work and unapologetically become who he is.
And I also know the one thing that Russe needs,
and that's working well. I played for Mike Malone. Now
I bring up Mike Malone because Mike Malone is a
truth teller. If he didn't feel like Boogie Cousins was
bringing it in practice or being the best version of himself,
(07:50):
he'd nick come out of practice, he'd get on his head,
he'd bring those things to the table. So unapologetically. Mike
Malone is also going to tell Russ, you messed up.
Hey Russ, you got to be better. Hey Russ, you
need to make this play or that play, or you
just need to be more fundamental. But the one thing
that he's been, and I believe that the Nuggets were
(08:12):
kind of falling off from from their championship year, is
just energy. You know, someone to bring energy, someone to ignite,
someone to keep them motivated. And you know what Russ
has been at. So for Denver, they're going to accept
the good with the bad. And Dan, if you've got Russ,
you gotta do that.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
I get you know, I get it. And it's not
a pile alone. It wasn't meant to to pile on
Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Would you would you agree that they're like nobody is
nobody is having that sequence in the NBA, maybe maybe
three or four players because what I mean by that,
Ryan is and we're going to get back to the
Jokics part because I feel that there is there is
a connection to all of this. But that means Westbrook's
got the ball late in the game, twenty seconds left,
(08:56):
He's at the free throw line, He's also in the
right spot of the right Tom on a turnover, makes
the right pass to Christian Brown. Brown gives it back
to him and he just ends up missing the free throw,
but then goes completely on tilt and trying to get
back on defense and trying to make the play. I
just feel that anybody else in the league is maybe
not doing one or the other. Maybe they are pulling
(09:17):
the ball out, maybe they're giving the ball back to
Christian Brown on the fast break in different situations. But
because who he is, who he is, and there's a
lot of good with that that Russell Westbrook's the only
one that would have that sort of sequence in the NBA,
because other players may shy away from it, and maybe
better players would end up coming through and making the
basket at that time. That's I just think that that
(09:39):
situation was so fit for Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
You're right, I'm sitting here like Dan like as you're
saying saying it, I'm running through my mind and I'm
going who else may come came up and even be
trusted to be in a game or needed to be
in a game in that situation and yet could make
that type of play.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
You know, have you is the one who the crown,
right I mean, and so he does wear it. And
when you've got someone like Jokich who again sixty one,
ten and ten, it just ends up magnifying that sort
of did Now. Now, in the grand scheme of things,
I don't think it's going to be it's gonna you're
gonna look back at this night. You're gonna remember the
(10:19):
sixty one, ten and ten. Then you are gonna remember
the one forty to one thirty nine. Even in the
Mavericks game and the James Harden Trouble double, I assume
they won, but I don't know. And I think at
some point, probably five years down the line will be like,
all right, Jokic had that. Maybe we'll forget that it
was in a a in a double overtime game. But
in the grand scheme of things, back to your point
(10:39):
about about jo Kich, I think that this moves on
into the you know, in in to the sunset, into
the ether or whatever the case is. We remember the numbers,
and we also now will remember a quote, and I
think this says it all. This was Julius Randall of
the Timberwolves after last night's game that they beat the
Denver Nuggets talking about what life is like guarding the
(11:02):
Kola Jokic in the NBA.
Speaker 6 (11:04):
I told him he's incredible like that, dude is absolutely ridiculous.
Brof he's touch around the rim. He missed Someboddy's too.
I guess when you swore sixty one, you're gonna miss something.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Damn.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Bro that's I can't lie.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
He shooting turn around off the wrong foot. Do you
know Fadantik is right? He's doing all type of crazy.
I don't even know how to explain.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
It is that all others are on the league field. Well,
Julius Randall expressed last night.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Let me let me tell you something.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
For a guy like Julius Rando or another NBA player
fresh off the game, to give you that type of respect.
Players don't like to give respect. We don't like to
when somebody kicks our butt. We don't like to speak
up and say that someone kicked our butter. How good
they are. That's how good he is. You know that
that you take your hat off and you give that respect.
(11:59):
You know, it's funny comes to mind, and obviously at
even at a higher level. I remember we were in
the Eastern Conference of Eastern Finals, right, and we're playing
against Lebron in the heat, and you know Paul Pierce,
Ray Allen KG. The mindset was, hey, Lebron's not tough enough.
You know, when it comes down to execution, it comes
down to a big moment. Our guys are tough. We've
(12:20):
seen it before. Our guys know how to execute. You know,
Paul Pierce can work off the ELBOWKG, He's going to
be in a pick and pop. Even Rondo would step
up in a big shot, do it's needed. Rey Allen
is certified and proven in those moments. You can't leave
him pick your poison in that space, right, And and
the mindset was there, like we got him, we got
And when Lebron, well, Lebron showed out and he had
(12:41):
that game I think it was what game six? He
had that legendary game six. And then when the game
was over, I remember I watched.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Paul go.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
He's like that, he's the best. He's good enough for
a different scenario. But when you see guys go out
and prove it, that's the greatest respect that you can
get is from you know, somebody that you work with
or somebody that is a competitor, you know. So you know,
if I do a show and Dan Bayer goes out
and you know, hey, that Brian Hollins is something else.
(13:10):
That guy really brings it to the table. That's a compliments.
That's the best one that you can get, you know,
because the present family, the fans are going to be
there with the truth tellers. But when you're a competitor
brings that to the table, it's just different.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Dan, Yeah, I get it. No, and you do bring it.
I will say that he does. Ryan Hollins does always
bring it, just like Nikola Jokich does us. It's crazy
because it's over and over again for Jokisch, and so
you saying like he could be on track for greatest
of all time. I don't think that he's going to be.
(13:43):
I just I don't think that's going to be the case.
I think that there's a lot of stuff that has
to go with it. I think that what he has
done though in this short period is nothing short of amazing.
And now he's put himself again back into an MVP conversation.
Probably won't win it, but still we know what the
MVP voting is. My question nowt comes to this because
(14:04):
I've even been critical of what's going on in Milwaukee
because the Bucks have tried to do everything around Giannis
to make it work and it hasn't since they won
a title. And I know we're only a couple of
years removed from Denver doing so. And again last night
they weren't playing with Jamal Murray that in andn Michael
Porter Junior. You know, but at some point, when are
we going to start to look at the Nuggets and
(14:25):
Nuggets and say, Okay, he's got one championship and is
this team doing enough to surround him in a way.
Where As a Bucks fan, Ryan, it is increasingly frustrating
to see every move not come to fruition or something
go wrong in their pursuit of trying to win another championship.
(14:48):
And Denver again only a couple of years removed from
winning at all, but they're sitting there at number three
in the West right now. I don't see tons of
people picking them to come out of the West to
win it this year. That's just the other. The next
domino that I wonder with Denver is where we're looking at,
is when do you start making those moves for Jokic,
Because now you feel that You've had five straight seasons
(15:10):
of MVP caliber play and you're gonna come away with
a title out of it. I just I think that
that conversation could be on the horizon right now.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
The answer is right now, it's the answers.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Right nobody's and nobody. If this is the Lakers, would
obviously be having this conversation. But nobody's having that conversation
about the Denver Nuggets right now. But we alwayte I
don't want to say wasting because that's not the right term,
but maybe we're not maximizing what he is bringing to
the table for that organization. Again, they only wanted they
(15:44):
wanted two years ago. So I completely understand the uh,
the the timetable that we're in. But again, when you're
looking at the greatness of who he is and what
he's done, like, man.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
Hey, hey, hey, Dan, I answer that question for you
know the biggest problem, you know, the biggest problem.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
He takes his role players and he makes him.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
Play so well, Okay, Bruce Brown, and they play so
well you can't afford to keep them, Jeff Green, you
can't bring them back like they play so well that
like you have to pay the guys that are there,
so it's not like, ah, we can't see moving forward.
You're like, man, this guy fins Porter Junior. He's big,
he shoots the basketball, he stretches the floor, you know,
(16:27):
like like you gotta pay Aaron Gordon's excellent back cutting
and play it off like you gotta pay the guys
that are there so they get strap for cash.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Yeah, I'll tell you what. I heard something within the
last twenty four to forty eight hours in talking about
Jokicchen saying, you basically want Jokics to score because when
everybody else is getting theirs, it makes them that much
more difficult. So if you're gonna pick a poison and
they lost last night, you know, I know it wasn't
necessarily his fault, but like there would be an example
(16:58):
of it. But people say, that's what makes them so
dangerous is when he is sitting there and he's what
top two, top three and assists in the NBA, When
he can move the basketball like that, it makes them
much better. But maybe you just let Jokic get his
and try to lock everybody else down. Maybe that's the
secrets of the success of stopping the Nuggets.
Speaker 4 (17:16):
Yeah, when you play against great players that can do both.
That's what you do when we compete against Luca or
you compete against Lebron and those guys, you say, you
know he can score or he can assist, but he
can't get both, you know, so you make your mind
up and what you're trying to do to disrupt those guys.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Absolutely, And I know you didn't hate it last night.
Is it gave a little separation for your Rockets and
that two seed if it comes to that. By the way,
big win from Minnesota now pulling even with Memphis for
that sixth spot in the West, and we all know
what happens with the sixth spot. You don't have to,
you know, playing tournament for the winner or whoever claims
(17:57):
the sixth spot, seventh spot, completely different story.
Speaker 7 (18:01):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
App Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I'm Dan Byer.
He's the NBA vet Ryan Holland sitting in for Doug
today on this Wednesday. Doug will be back tomorrow shortly
after the show. Our podcast will be going up. If
you missed any of today's show, be sure to check
out the podcast. Just search Doug Gottlieb wherever you get
your podcasts. Be sure to also follow rate and review
(18:31):
the podcast. Again, you search Doug Gottlieb wherever you get
your podcasts. And if you did miss it, Ryan Holland
says that, yeah, Nicola Jokic could be on track, could
be on track to maybe being the goat. A lot
of time left. You gotta win more titles and I
still think Ryan having a center as the goat in
today's day and age would be a tough sell. But
(18:54):
you can't argue the success over the last five years.
It's just how much can Jokic then can continue on
in his career.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Absolutely, he would need a significant amount amount more rings.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
You're not wrong in Denver.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
You'd have to attract free agents there to play with him.
You know, it is hard in Denver because maybe you
could sell the city and not that Denver is a
bad city, but it's not La it's not New York,
it's not Miami. It's a little easier to sell there.
And they're so good. They also tie up is it's
hard for them to get draft picks. You know, they
can get solid players, good players, but you may not
(19:30):
get that at second superstar. So you've got to be
really creative through free agency. You got to be really
great in the draft on getting a potential prospect. You
got to take a risk.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Michael. I don't know if you know this day. Michael
Porter Junior was a risk.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
He came in with back problems, which if you got
back in hip problems as an NBA player, that is
almost that's like the kiss of death. That's something that
you may not ever was sure.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Right, Yeah, why did he play like three games at
Missouri or something like that.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
But Michael Porter Jr. Was the best player in the
country in high school. He was a phenom. I mean,
he could jump out the gym, he could shoot. There's
nothing that he couldn't do. So you know, they took
a risk, and you'd have to go in and you
have to kind of draft those players that might be
injured or little harder brown the edges and take a
chance on him and to bring talent in.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
He is Ryan Hollins. I'm Dan Byer in for Doug
Gottlieb liverothetirerech dot Com Studios and Draymond Green is at
it again in a series, in a season, I should say,
in the NBA, where one of our biggest storylines is
the NBA's biggest star fighting with a media member. Draymond Green,
a star in his own right, has his own podcast,
(20:45):
The Draymond Green Show with Baron Davis, and at this exchange. Recently,
Ryan Hollins about rispect with the older generation.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
People say you must respect each era, but the past
eras don't respect this air.
Speaker 9 (20:59):
I don't think that that's true me.
Speaker 8 (21:01):
You don't see some of the things these guys say.
Speaker 9 (21:03):
The respect from the old is really do the young
dudes with us?
Speaker 8 (21:07):
Do they know who we are?
Speaker 9 (21:08):
That's why you get a lot of hate from the
older generation, because they just want to be kept alive.
One era always think that the other area is sorry
until you leave the game and have an appreciation for
the talent that you have to play against.
Speaker 8 (21:23):
I disagree in the fact that no, like these eras
don't respect us.
Speaker 10 (21:27):
Like I've seen several guys talk over and over and
over again, not in the positive life. I don't think
that respect is passed down to us from the other generations.
But I think people are quick to say, oh, you
got to respect them because they came before I don't
agree with that.
Speaker 9 (21:43):
You absolutely have to absolutely respect the people who came
before you, because.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
My respect is earned, and what you did to somebody
else don't necessarily earn you respect. Just because you played
before me does not mean you deserve respect. I'm sorry,
all right, but.
Speaker 10 (22:01):
God had in his plan for you to be born
before me, and you just deserve respect because of that.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
Nah My mom may raised me that way.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
There's a lot to unpack there, Ryan Hollins, Okay, yeah,
he has. I'll say this first things first, when Draymond
Green is talking about the older generation, he's talking about
two people. He's talking about Charles Barkley and he's talking
about Shaquille O'Neil. That is it. Those are the two
(22:35):
people that Draymond Green is talking about. So when we
have this conversation of the older generation, Draymond I think
feels that Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neal speak for the
entire generation.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
You forgot the big Oh.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Who's that?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Oscar Robinson had some words for Draymond too.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I think in general, though, I think whenever like this,
and I didn't. I didn't get the work. You can
fill me in.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
You pretty much said all Draymond's ever done is set
screens for step Curry and he should be happy.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Okay, I don't want to. I don't want to hear
him speak.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I'm kind of like paraphrasing, Yeah, okay, I that would.
I would. I would feel offended if I was Draymond
Green in that case. But when you look at what
Oscar Robertson did in his career, I don't know how
you couldn't look at those numbers and say I have
(23:30):
respect for what he did during his generation. This two
way street that Draymond feels that it is is it's
fine in the in the in the real world, if
someone wants to knock on my door and walk in
my house and be disrespectful, I didn't know who they were. Yeah,
they obviously don't have my respect. They can leave, they
(23:50):
can get out of there. I don't need them around.
But when you're in a profession and when you're setting
the building blocks to have the game be where it
is today, for Draymond Green to do what he is
able to do, I just think that there has to
be the business that we are in right now. We
are in hallways where some of the radio greats have worked.
(24:13):
Casey Cassem's studio plaque still has not been taken down
in our studios because there's respect there. And I just
feel that Draymond Green is in this bizarre world. And
I'm so glad that Baron Davis spoke up and said
what he said. But I just think that Draymond Green
is focused on two and now maybe three players because
he says that they said it often and who talks
(24:35):
more than Chuck and Shack because of inside the NBA.
But that's who I feel that he's talking about. And
I just feel that his angle on respect is just
one that is completely misguided and would make the old
generation not respect the new generation. Like Draymond Green is.
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Dan in this I can honestly take it both ways.
And the reason I take it both ways you have
to weigh in all the factors. So what's pretty cool
about working in Houston with the Rockets is I get
a chance to work with a great Calvin Murphy.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
And Calvin Murphy He's got some.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
Of the most amazing stories you can get, and you
got to understand that today's player even my generation of
playing may have not been able to play back then,
not from a talent standpoint, But can you fly commercial?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Can you not have your masseuse?
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Can you get out there with some Chuck Taylor's Calvin
Murphy is and Dan, I want you to.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Look this up. If you're don't do it. If you're driving,
if you're listening to your driving, don't look this up.
But go look up a hockey helmet.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Calvin Murphy gets gets knocked upside the head pretty much
just unconscious. There's no conculsion protocol, dude. And they say,
Calvin Murphy, go out there. He's wearing a hockey helmet, dude,
He's wearing a literal hockey helmet on in an NBA game.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
And that's the joke.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
That's the joke, and and that's how they dealt with
concussions at that time. So when they say could this
guy play in this era, it's not about the game.
Jannis out to the coupo and Bill Russell and Mianis out.
The couple would run laps around what Bill Russell did.
But at that time, if you'd have seen Giannis out
to the coupo and said go stand underneath the basket.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Now today's NBA, they're like, hey, you can dribble a
little bit, push the ball full court, you know, expand
your game. So the different eras and different play styles
come in a factor.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
But from a commercial setting of dealing with there's just
so many elements of can't these guys.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Can't these guys make it out of Season one?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
You're so spot on about that, and I don't want
to call them spoiled. But things are better now than
they were way back then compared to I mean, there's
there's no doubt about it. I wonder about this generation.
Ryan Hollinson, I consider you in a different generation than
I am. I'm about ten years older than you, give
or take.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
You look cool.
Speaker 8 (26:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I appreciate that. Oh that's very very kind of you.
I just I look at like generations like decades in
that way. Maybe not twenty five years when we're talking NBA,
we're talking maybe.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Every time up two thousand nineties.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yes, yeah, yep, that's that's exactly right. I would say
this when it comes to looking at the way that
the current NBA player is, and I don't know if
it's I feel it's this way. I don't have any
sixteen seventeen, eighteen year old kids. My son's only three,
but I remember my generation loving the NBA, knowing stats,
(27:33):
knowing players, knowing teams, knowing the whole deal. And I
don't know if today's and I'm not I wasn't a
high level basketball player by any means, but I don't
know if the of if young players nowadays love the NBA.
They may love playing two K or video games or
whatever the way it was. But I feel like we
(27:56):
embraced the NBA, the teams, and its players when I
was growing up, and I don't know if recent generations
do that anymore. And I think that's also a part
of it, where maybe they're just indifferent to what the
past is. But I feel like people my age because
we loved what we came up with, which also means
we loved what was in the past. It's a different feeling.
(28:17):
I think that has something to do with all of.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
This poe product of your environment. These guys know their value,
and not only do they play the game, they know
the money that they can make. They also know if
I go out in an organization and this has happened,
go ask Isaiah Thomas okay, not Zeke as Isaiah Thomas.
(28:41):
My Isaiah Thomas then went to Washington played for the
Celtics and was asked to go out in a game
and play through an injury, and then he ends up
having hip surgery and essentially derailed his career. He had
an all star career, but he wants to put it
all on the floor for his team. Blake Griffin goes
out in Detroit, plays in the playoffs, his knees falling off,
and Blake Griffin hadn't been doing the same shoot he's
(29:04):
calling games. He's in our field now, Dan, So there
are a number of guys that whose careers were derailed
and understand their value. And you can look back and
say or you can get on Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi Leonard
if he listens to some of those doctors won't even
be playing in the NBA anymore. You know, I know
it's frustrating when you see some of these guys take
time off but their bodies could not handle it, and
(29:27):
it's really unfortunate and a game just passes you by.
But my point, Dan, you can call it soft, maybe
it's smart. Maybe it's knowing your value. Maybe it's knowing
to live to fight again another day. And I do
think there's some elements, whether it's soft just get out
and play, go work year you're work up through some
discomfort or do you have a major injury looming? And
I think that's the challenge with some of these guys.
(29:48):
And again, product of your environment, are you someone that
just loves the game? Look, Dan, the circuits be told.
When I speak to kids in their groups, I go
out in. The one thing that I tell them is, guys,
I don't care what your path is. Find something that
you love. The reason I say it, Dan, And you
can tell me if I'm wrong here. I feel like
I've never worked a day in my life. They paid
(30:09):
me to play basketball. I'd have done it for free, Bro,
I'd have been at the YMCA playing. And this is
more to your generation speaking and I speak about it.
I would talk about the game and things that I
love for free, so you enjoy it. And that's something Dan,
you're apparently a lot older. I thought we were the
same age. You looked great, But you know we still
have some of those similar values where trying to play, go,
(30:30):
trying to practice go. These new guys are like my
knee's a little sore.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Sure I listen, it's just Draymond. And by the way,
I don't think that in Draymond and looking up the
comments that you mentioned did address the big old things,
saying like I'm not going to come on here and
I'll go, you know, tit for tat with Oscar Robertson
and disrespect one of the greats. But I think it's
fair to say that it would probably be put in
(30:56):
line with the other other comments that are out there.
But why are we sitting here fighting with each other?
I remember remember that great show Open Court that Knows
on NBA TV, and it had all the great sitting around.
I remember like Chris Webber and other guys like just
waxing poetically about Bob McAdoo being like he was the
first stretch for that you saw in the NBA. And
(31:20):
I feel that there's this generation of players now that
feel they're the first of everything. And maybe that may
be me being get off my lawn guy, but I
feel that there were previous generations that appreciated the history,
more appreciated where their positions came from, and nowadays it's
I'm it, I'm the thing. I'm what it is and
(31:40):
that's enough for them, And I think that's a shame.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Well, here's the thing. It's like the history books.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
It's hard to see if you were not like the
greatest ever or you know, highlights that can live forever.
You don't really know somebody's game, you know, like like
a David Thompson who could jump out the gym, who
was unbelievable. A lot of guys don't know, oh what
David Thompson was. Hey, A lot of guys, hey, doctor
j These young guys don't know doctor j Hey. The
(32:06):
current NBA players will tell you, I don't really know
how good Michael Jordan was.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
No legit they have.
Speaker 4 (32:13):
They do not know how good Michael Jordan was. So
they're like, oh, man Lebron all day, we haven't seen
anything like them. No, Michael Jordan's unbelievable. Without Michael, there's
no Kobe, there's no Lebron.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Sure, I I I There's there's a lot to unpack.
We could keep going on, and I think your point
is fair. I just don't think that they even know
a lot of players, like you know, how many people
have Wallace.
Speaker 3 (32:34):
Bottom line, no olive it. It's respect.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Dan, It's respect and no one wants to feel slighted,
and that's what happens a lot of times. Recency biased,
out of sight, out of mind.
Speaker 7 (32:44):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Doug Gotlib Show on Fox Sports Radio. He's the NBA
vet Ryan Hollins also the analyst the Houston Rockets television broadcast.
They got the jazz tonight?
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Is that what's coming to town jazz tonight?
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Alright?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
Yes, Sir Houston.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Sitting in the two spot in the west, he is
Run Holland's I'm Dan buyer in for Doug today Ryan.
Every day at this time of the Doug Gottlieb Show,
we like to go over to the news desk and
play a game. Let's do it with Isaac Lowingcron.
Speaker 7 (33:21):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
All right, Isaac, what do you got today?
Speaker 11 (33:28):
Unfortunately, today's game is not finger guns. Instead, it's for
better or Worse? And because it is final four weeks,
that begs the obvious question. First of all, better or worse?
Auburn or Florida? Who are you taking who's better, who's worse.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Gosh, I'm gonna say Florida's favored in this game. Las
Vegas has them favored, but also Florida has the win
over Auburn when they played earlier this year. I think
Auburn's completely healthy. Florida right now better than Auburn. Ryan Hollins,
I do, Dan unfortunately, agree with you.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
I think even though I've got a bit of a
gripe with Florida Steele, they beat us in the National
Championship game. I think they execute at a very high clip.
I think their guards are shot makers and not shot takers.
I think they really got tested in their last battle,
and I am gonna lean towards Florida. I do think
(34:31):
they've got the advantage here. Although Auburn, oh, they got
some athletes, they got some aththleites over there. I'm gonna
tell you that right.
Speaker 11 (34:37):
Now, I should have given Joe Keem Noah, Charlie Horst
in a lamp line. All right, next item, sorry again,
to bring that back up next night, A better or
worse Duke or Houston.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You want to go first, Hollins, Oh Man, this is
no brainer.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
This is Houston.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
This is gonna be the With all due respect, you know,
Duke is gonna come back down to earth. Uh Houston
plays a style that nobody wants to play again, let
alone uh in In in the tournament. They defend, they trap,
they rebound, they hit you. They're gonna put their hands
on you. And it's a motivated team. Calvin Samson is
(35:16):
working magic over there. Kelvin Samson, with crying tears, would
see your night because he didn't want to see his
guys go. I'm gonna tell you right now, Calvin Sampson
not only will win this next game, but Houston will
be national champions.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Right in your backyard.
Speaker 7 (35:32):
I was.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
I was just gonna say, I think Duke's by far
the best team in the Final four.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, you just like Cooper Flag No, no.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
What, Yeah, he's from America's dairy Land. Yes, I just know.
I think that they also play defense there. Yeah, they're
Duke's Duke's Special.
Speaker 11 (35:52):
All right, Well, we know how Hallens is gonna answer
this one too, but I'll ask it anyway, for better
or worse, Nikola Jokic or Shay Gilders, Alex, I don't like.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
How you just think you know how I'm gonna answer, okay,
but I'm gonna have to like it. I'm gonna tell
you right now, there's nothing sexy about Yokich winning an MVP.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
There's nothing, with all due respect, that pushes the league forward.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Okay, with yo Kich winning MVP, Shake Gilgen's Alexander will
edge him out, not necessarily because he was the better player,
not because he was more valuable, but you can see
his team's success, and his team's success will be rewarded.
The work that he put in last year will be rewarded.
He's a brand that you can get behind. He's a
fashion icon. He will talk to talk and walk the walk.
(36:38):
Then he is someone that the league can push to
the forefront. So Shake gils Is Alexander will win because
of his team's success.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Okay, but the question was who's better? I think we
both think Yogic is better. Right, he said who will win?
Speaker 3 (36:52):
He said who will win? Dude?
Speaker 11 (36:53):
I said for better or worse? You have to feel
free to take that in any direction you want. Final
item in honor of the now late great Val Kilmer,
Val Kilmer in Top Gun or Val Kilmer in Real Genius,
Better or worse?
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Better or one a maybe gotta love real Genius, all right,
that came first, Gotta love the I always feel that
Val Kilmer took on that personality as someone who wasn't
a big movie guy. I think he always looked at
him as like the guy from Top Gun. I know
we got some big Val Kilmer fans over here, Ryan Hollins,
Jason Stewart's one of them. Did we crunch you for
(37:30):
time on Val Kilmer? You want to do it on
the other side, all right, let's do that. Yes, they
were asking me. They know I'm not a movie guy.
On what Val Kilmer movies I see? I just don't
see a lot of movies. But I saw Top Gun
and I saw real Genius.
Speaker 8 (37:43):
He is.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Ryan Holland's I'm Dan Byer, sad sad news. Though everybody
heartbroken over the passing of Val Kilmer, it's final four
week Ryan Hollins was there. He'll tell you what it's
like next
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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