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July 4, 2025 • 42 mins

Doug in for Colin as he talks about Lebron James and how he is doing the one thing that the public will not tolerate. Doug welcomes former seven-time All-Star major leaguer Matt Holliday onto the show to talk about his baseball family, facing Clayton Kershaw in his prime and all of the other major headlines around MLB. Plus, Doug reacts to Cheryl Miller's take on Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese.

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three Eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
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dot com, or stream us live every day on the
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Boom, Well Up America, Doug gottlieb In for Colin. This
is The Herd. Wherever you may be and however you
may be, listened to the show. Happy Fourth of July
to you. I hope you're ready for a great day,
heading out to the beach, head out to a lake,
heading up to the mountains, or you just chilling home
like dude, I don't care. Just Friday, you think, get

(00:47):
none of you'll listen to a sports radio got a
great show for you. I do mean great because in
this hour alone, Talgole NBA basketball, talking with former Major
League All star about a bunch of different topics. We'll
talk a little UFC, we got some old school NBA,

(01:08):
a little a WNBA, and some NFL all just in
this hour, Just in this hour, Matt Holliday, seven time
All Star will join us upcoming in twenty minutes here
on the show. Is it's great to be with you
in the herd. Obviously we're live in places like Los Angeles,
and I always laugh at when we post things from

(01:29):
my show, The Doug Outleap Show, which follows this show
on most Fox Sports radio stations, how people go, like,
get another topic, don't talk about Lebron by the way,
Mike Colin doing the outside voice thing, right Colin, Anyway,
you can accuse me of a lot of things, Chasing

(01:51):
Lebron topic is not one of them. Lebron topic is
a real topic that's really been discussed. And oh yeah,
by the way, it pops up in your algorithm because
it's what people were talking about right now. So, hey, kids,
if you just got back from a vacation with your
family or you haven't really been paying attention, there's this
weird thing that happened with Lebron James and the Lakers
over the past week or so. Right free agency period

(02:14):
open now. Lebron James is not a free agent, but
could have been. Instead, he opted in to his player option,
which you'll pay him roughly fifty three point nine million
dollars next season, but after opting in and signing or
picking up his player option, his agent Rich Paul released

(02:39):
a statement saying, and I'm not going to quote it's
not forbatim, but basically it's like, hey, Lebron wants to
win a championship, so the Lakers are on a different
timeline of winning a championship. So, hey, we just want
you to know Lebron wants to win a championship. It
insinuates that he, you know, past tense relationship kind of

(03:00):
over or coming to an end, and he doesn't think
that they can win a championship as currently comprised in LA.
So he's open to any possibilities. The number one thing,
one on one takeaway you should have. You're like, why
should I care? Again? I'm not gonna sit here and

(03:21):
argue with you whether or not you think Lebron, Magic Bird, Jordan,
Wilt Kareem are the greatest players of all time. I'm not.
There's just you know, this is like the Lebron Jordan
argument is like the abortion argument. You know what, have
fun trying to win that one on social media? There

(03:43):
is no wink. So this doesn't come from a place
of I don't think Lebron James is the best player
of all time. But it does come from a place
of let's just kind of be honest. Is there any
you want out there who would argue that Luca is

(04:04):
at minimum a top ten and more likely a top
five player went healthy in the NBA? And you're all
sitting there driving around, and you know, you get your
kids in the car, and you're saying, all right, that's reasonable.
Top ten, minimum, top five, Okay, how you want your
list to be. And you know we well we didn't
have the top five then Jason Tatum towards Achilles and

(04:24):
I don't know what Yahn is and whatever, like all right,
Like I'm not going to push any argument more than it.
I know he's one of the two or three best
players in the sport that I love that I played
that a coach, But again, not trying to win arguments.
We're just trying to find middle ground there, right, Okay,
So if he's a top ten player, and they are

(04:47):
a good portion of people, especially ones on TV who
will watch Lebron play on a given night, throw up
Lebron's stats and say we Lebron's still best player in
the NBA. Now again, I'm not going to arg that,
I know that most of us know that not to
be true. But if you think Lebron James is a
top ten or top fifteen player, and you're in a

(05:09):
sport where suddenly now we have more parody than we've
ever had in our lifetime. Eight champions over the last
eight years, and many of the teams that are seen
as the league's elite have lost play. I mean, the
three of the best teams in the East have lost
elite players. Do an Achilles tenant tear? And as much

(05:32):
as we talk about the West, as if all the
Western the Warriors aren't good enough as currently comprised to
compete for a championship, the Wolves aren't good enough to
compete for a championship best currently comprised the Rockets. We
think with Kevin Durant, it'll make them better. I'm a
huge Kevin Durant fan, but it hasn't worked in his past.

(05:54):
What two stops close to working in Brooklyn not his
They had injuries and then the dysfunction that followed didn't
work in Phoenix. Any argument there, Okay, so all these
things were like, oh the West is so like you know,
Clippers seem like they're kind of over the hill with
what they're doing now. Warriors are over the hill. Timberwolves

(06:18):
just don't have enough spurs. Probably a year away, maybe
two away from really competing atop rockets. You know, they
look better, but again, at some point you're gonna get
declining return on Kevin Durant's it's there's better depth. Denver
has no bench, right, they're fragile, they're not great. They're

(06:41):
still have Yokic. So if you want to make a
depth of good teams. But if we're honest with ourselves,
Lebron and his camp admitting the Lakers can't win as
they are not focusing on or trying to in his mind,
or they're you know, really how it lands on everybody.

(07:02):
They're not good enough to win a championship with Lebron
and with Luca. If you're not good enough to compete
for a championship and you have two top fifteen, top
ten players in the league, then boy, the league must
be really good and it's not. So what Lebron and
everybody else is admitting without knowing their admitting, is Lebron's

(07:25):
no longer a top fifteen, top twenty player. He's for
forty he's amazing, but in reality, he's just not. He
doesn't defend with the same energy. He can be hard
to play with, and there are nights in which he
just doesn't have it and those knights will likely increase
over time. Right doesn't play all the games, has gotten

(07:45):
hurt what like five of the seven years in which
he's been in LA. So this idea that let's just
eliminate that from your argument Lebron's a top ten player, No,
he's not. If he was, then there's no way in
hell anybody would say that the Lakers can't win a championship.
And most of us know Lakers can't win a championship,
including Lebron James. So if we start with that that

(08:09):
things have changed, Lebron has to adjust to where he is,
but he still wants to play for a championship contender
and he does not think the Lakers are championship contenders.
There is only one other possible argument if he doesn't
think the Lakers are championship contenders, or says that it's
that Lebron is pouting because now they're doing everything to

(08:31):
focus on Luca and what makes Luca the best version
of himself a lot Lebron James. But let's pretend, for
at least the radio show and for this argument, that
Lebron James is in fact the bigger man. Lebron James
has nothing. He just wants to win, wants to be
part of a champion. Doesn't see it, doesn't feel it,
because he knows in his heart he's not nearly as

(08:52):
good as he used to be. Well, if that's the case,
then what actions has Lebron actually taken to be solely
focused on winning a championship over the past couple of
years with the Lakers. Keep in mind, they've acus to

(09:13):
anything that he wanted. Hey, you want jj Read to
be the coach? Done? You want us to move mountains
first to trade for Anthony Davis. Remember they tried to
trade for him, couldn't get it. Then Rich Paul, who
also reps Anthony Davis, was like, gotta have Anthony Davis.
So they moved on earth, heaven and earth to get him.
They get him. They went a COVID championship. Okay, but

(09:36):
they deplete all their most of their reserves and then
when they wanted to add another player, it was going
to be DeMar de rozen done. Only Lebron stepped in,
and it's like, Nana, Na, we want Russell Westbrook. You want
Russell Westbrook, not Tomrtre Rosen. Sure, let's overpay to get
Russell Westbrook. They get Russell Westbrook. The good vibes last

(09:57):
all of I don't know, a month, two months, and
then Lebron turns the cold shoulder that relationship stide. Don't worry,
we won't hold it against Lebron. We'll just move on
from Westbrook and then ultimately move on from our coaches.
After moving on from from you know, Frank who wins
your championship, and then you know, you move on from

(10:18):
Darvin Ham. Now you go get JJ Reddick. And then
they draft Bronnie and kind of forced themselves to go, yeah, no, no,
Bronni has earned all of this. Then they play Bronnie James,
one of the last picks in the draft, in the
second round on opening night in the NBA, doesn't happen normally,

(10:39):
doesn't normally get four year guaranteed contracts, and then their
G League team is turned into a Lebron James sponsored
AAU team where it's just about Bronnie getting buckets and
about making Bronnie look like he's ready to play in
the NBA. They've done all these things. Oh, the only
thing they did that maybe he didn't like was trade

(11:01):
away the big guy who is repped by the same
agent and upgraded for a trade that the entire world
thinks they won, the entire world thinks they want Like,
I don't think the win disparity is that great. Like
I don't think it was. They literally trade away a

(11:24):
box of basketballs used outside for one of the greatest
players in the world. They trade away Anthony Davis, who's
a tremendous two way player Okay has And really what
Dallas wanted to do is reconfigure themselves, make themselves the
most dynamic defensive team in the league, and tap into

(11:45):
the potential of Anthony Davis, which still seems to be limitless,
only limited by injuries. And of course Anthony Davis, as
he's prone to do, gets hurt when he gets there.
But the it's not that big of a win. But
it's a win, and anybody would argue as such. Right,
So what are you actually mad about that the Lakers

(12:08):
want to trade with the Mavericks, that the Lakers are
going to be relevant for the next decade. I think
the problem people are bothered with the most. This comes
from me, This comes from colin, This comes from government,
This comes from teachers, comes from parents, comes to from athletes.

(12:34):
I can take your opinion if it's the opposite of mine.
What I can't take or your ideas or your thoughts
or you know, if you have a plan, you go do.
What you can't take is hypocrisy. If you want to
play for a championship and you don't think it's in
LA and all that's important to you at the end

(12:54):
of your career is winning a championship, well then just
don't pick up your player option and you're a free
agent and go where the hell you want, go wherever
you want. Well, then what do we do with Bronnie?
Well again, like again, if if Bronnie isn't tied to you,
if it wasn't a Daddy ball deal, and then that
shouldn't matter to you. Of course it matters to you,

(13:16):
and they can figure it out. They can trade Bronni
for nothing and get stuff something back and return or whatever.
It's just it's just hypocrisy. Don't tell me that. You
don't tell me that Lebron's a top ten player, and
then say, playing with Luka Doncik, they can't win a championship.
Don't tell me winning a championship, competing for is all

(13:37):
that's important. And then pick up even if you are
gonna stay in LA, if you really want to win
a championship, of course you could take less money. And
to people who say he's Lebron James, he doesn't have
to take less money. He doesn't unless he truly believes
knows he needs more help based upon the current structure

(13:58):
of the salary cap in the NBA. And oh yeah,
by the way, there's all kinds of creative contracts where
you can backload it and do player options and at
the end of the day they can buy you out
of your last contract so that you get a walk
away bonus that ends up equaling out what you would
have made this year. Like all that stuff is reasonable.

(14:20):
But this is not an opening rant. Doug Godlive been
for Collin the Herd on Fox Sports Radio and the
iHeartRadio app. This is not me telling you he's a
terrible person or he's a bad basketball player. But what
you can't have is somebody being a complete hypocrite time
and again and not get called on it, not get

(14:42):
called on. It's what irritates us about so many people
in power is you say one thing and you do another.
And that's where we are with Lebron James. And so
either he's a hypocrite and the money's really what's important
and this is just for show, or he and his

(15:06):
crew is being babies because it's no longer about him
and it's always been about him. This is The Herd
here on Fox Sports Radio. I'm Doug Gottlieb filling in
for Colin. Coming up next, we saw a special moment
from a future Hall of Famer in baseball this week,
a guy that faced him in the playoffs will give

(15:30):
us his thoughts on Clayton Kershaw. How do we contextualize
his seventeen years of dominance? That's texting the Herd.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon Eastern not a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
Hey, it's Ben, host of the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller.
Would mean a lot to have you join us on
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Speaker 3 (16:03):
A world will.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
We chat with captains of industry in media, sports and
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Speaker 3 (16:16):
It's Doug Gottlieb Show. Oh sorry, Doug Golibin for Collins.
The Hurt Fox Ports Trio Doug Gotlieb Show follows the
show on Fox Sports Radio. I thought we'd contextualize a
little bit of what Clayton Kershaw was able to accomplish
earlier this week with his three thousandth strikeout with a
guy who faced him both in the regular season and

(16:39):
the playoffs, and played with him in the All Star
Game at times. Matt Holliday joins us. He played fifteen
years in the Big Seven, time All Star member of
the Saint Louis Cardinals World Series championship team in twenty eleven.
And before we get to Kershaw and some other stuff
in baseball, we are today's fourth July, so we're roughly

(17:02):
what nine days away from the Major League Baseball Draft,
And for people to know, Jackson Holiday, who is a
starter for the Orioles, is Matt's oldest son. Ethan Holiday,
is a prospect expected to be selected in this year's
first round. Matt, What's what's it like waiting around this
time when Jackson went off the board at one and

(17:24):
now you're waiting to see on Ethan, who was the
national high School Player of the Year.

Speaker 5 (17:30):
Well, it's, uh, you know, it's kind of an awkward
time as far as for these kids and stuff because
the season ended, you know, for their high school season
ended in May, and then you know they've moved the
draft to the All Star Game, and so there's this
kind of you know, six seven week period of waiting.

(17:52):
But we've been we've been keeping busy. We just went
to Dallas to watch Jackson with the Orioles playing the
Rangers and had a lot of family down there. So
just been working out and staying keeping him, keeping him
as ready as you can without playing games. And then
you know, in about like you said, nine or ten days,
we'll we'll have an idea of off who's selecting him
and what that looks like and then kind of have

(18:14):
a plan going from there. So just kind of enjoying
our last bit of uh, you know, summer at home
for a while for him. So it's been great, We've
we've enjoyed it and had some good family time together
and taking a couple of trips and but yeah, so
just kind of waiting see what happens, and you know,
at this point nine days out, we're not sure where

(18:34):
he's gonna end up.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Did you when did you know Jackson was going number one?

Speaker 5 (18:40):
Like literally like thirty five seconds before Manford announced it.
I mean, it's it's one of these things where you know,
it seemingly in basketball and football, there's a great idea,
you know, and leading up to the draft of who's
going number one, and they seemingly have all the details
of the contract already worked out. In baseball, it's a

(19:01):
little different with the with the draft pool and and
uh the slotting, and then you know, teams trying to
figure out if they can negotiate down on on the
on the slot of the first and second third picks
to to try to save money for for picks following that.
Maybe kids want overslought or you know, it's just it's

(19:22):
a it's a it's kind of a different animal, i'd
say than the other major sports drafts.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (19:28):
But yeah, with Jackson literally uh maybe maybe like you know,
literally the commissioners walking up to the podium and you know,
kind of agreed to to the the term and then
kind of let Leslie and my wife and and Jackson
find out what the announcement in the rest of the family.
So it was it was chaotic and and right down
to the.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Wire and and this time around, do you have any idea, No,
we really don't.

Speaker 5 (19:52):
It's it's uh, it's like I said, it's it's kind
of a strange deal.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
You know.

Speaker 5 (19:57):
You have talks with with teams and and a lot
more in the spring and kind of leading up to it,
and then there's kind of this quiet period where I
think teams collect their front office and their scouts and
they start breaking down the potential prospects of it, and
you know, I think that that's the kind of the process,
and then I think, you know, we might go right

(20:19):
up to the day of before we have a real
clear idea of what's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Matt Holliday's our guest. You're seven time All Star, fifteen
years in the Bigs won a World Series with the
Saint Louis Cardinals. The Cardinals were famous for having Whatever
the elixir was to Clayton Kershaw in the playoffs, right
was what was the approach when you guys would meet
before you're facing Kershaw in the playoffs? This is prime

(20:43):
peak Clayton Kershaw, best pitcher in baseball? What was the
approach that allowed you guys to be successful in the
playoffs against it?

Speaker 1 (20:51):
You know?

Speaker 5 (20:51):
I think it was a combination of a couple of things.
I think we had teams, the couple teams that seemingly
got to him a little bit. We're we're guys that
hit the ball in the middle of the field, weren't
weren't relying on pulling the ball, did a good job
of hitting the runners in scoring position. I think he

(21:11):
probably would tell you that he made more mistakes over
the plate in the middle of the plate, uh in
those games than than he's accustomed to and and he
would would make traditionally in his career. So I think
it was a combination of things. We just uh, and
then once you have a little bit of confidence like
that you.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Can do it.

Speaker 5 (21:31):
And and then you know, as hitters you feel like, uh,
you know you can you can get to him. Then
that that helps. I mean, you know, he's such a
dominant pitcher and if he gets rolling and and can
kind of get going and and start executing pitches, and
if they give him a lead. It's very difficult to
get to a guy like that. But once you get

(21:52):
to him, once you feel like maybe you can get
to him again, and and that that certainly adds to
the team's confidence that you know, if we keep it close,
we can we can get a big hit and and
possibly beat a guy like Clayton Kershaw. So uh, I
would say there was nothing that you know was was
secretive or you know, like that we had this special

(22:12):
plan that somehow got to Clayton Kershaw. It was you know,
you have to beat Kershaw when when he makes mistakes,
just like any good pitcher, if they throw the ball
in the middle the plate, you can't miss it, you
can't foul it off, you can't take it. You got
to be ready to hit and if he if he
throws you on, that's it's a that that's a good,
good pitch to hit, you've got to hit it, and
we seemingly were able to do that, uh pretty well

(22:33):
off of him in the postseason. And you know there
was times that particularly and you know at the time
when people thought we had his pitches or we were
stilling signs and none of that was true. I mean
we we we just like I said, we we didn't
miss the mistakes.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
Okay, then you have like a like, for example, a
Madison Bumgardner a fraction of the total career of a
curse Shop but in the playoffs, had you know, had
at least one far more dominant playoff run that Kershaw
kind of really ever had. I guess in your mind,

(23:09):
and you're somebody who's an honest broker, is is he
the best lefty you ever saw? Like? Where where is
Clayton Kershaw in terms of the best lefties you you've
ever faced?

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (23:22):
I mean, look, I mean three thousand strikeouts. I mean
you're talking about very rare air. I think if for me,
uh you know, then I got to face Randy Johnson
at the end of his career. I didn't face peek
Randy Johnson, so uh, you know, as far as just
facing a guy with stuff. But as far as you know,

(23:43):
facing two of the best lefties you know of all time,
and a couple of guys that I faced. I mean,
I think, you know, Pete clay Clayton Kershaw, who I faced,
you know, I would say is the best lefty I
ever saw. But I don't want to discount the fact
that I did get to face Randy Johnson. His you know,
his fastball had ticked, but he was still very difficult.

Speaker 6 (24:02):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (24:02):
But yeah, those those two are are certainly the best
lefties that I ever faced. And I would put Clayton, uh,
you know, up there with with an all time obviously,
you know, this body of his career was was his
has been incredible and he's still doing it and you know,
a great guy. You know, I got a chance to
know him off the field and and uh and spend

(24:23):
some time with him and just an incredible human and
uh just just uh, you know, really happy for him.
Three thousand, Like I said, three thousand career strikeouts. The
longevity that it takes, the health, the work and and
and then the you know, the ability to strike out
three thousand batters in the Major League. Some of these records,
you know, as far as now that everybody is is

(24:43):
his starters only going five innings and uh, you know
two times through the order. This this uh sort of
new new uh look at starting pitching. I'd be hard
to uh to think that somebody, you know, that might
be one of those numbers that nobody really gets to anymore.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Yeah. No, we're not gonna have another three hundred game winner,
right And he's a twentieth pitcher to have three thousand strikeouts,
And it seems very unlikely that in the current landscape
of baseball we ever get to that again. Mm hmm.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (25:14):
I mean there's there's several of these numbers you start
looking at, you know, kind of the way that the
game is trending that we very difficult, uh, you know,
for anybody to ever get to again.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
I did want to ask you about Jacob Misrowski, the
he's the six seven rookie with the Brewers who had
just been mowing everybody down and then you know, ran
into some trouble the other night against the against the Mets.
One of the things I love is when and I've
asked you about this about people's swings, but also about
people's stuff and whether or not it lasts, does does

(25:47):
he last? Obviously he just had one game where people
Other than that, he's just been completely dominant. But it's
very very early. What are your thoughts on the longevity
of a Misowski.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
Yeah, I mean I think that when you look at
his stuff, I think, certainly, you know, when you're pitching
at the hundred mile an hour and then and then
a little bit over your margin, peerr Is is bigger
than everybody else's. It's very difficult to square up one hundred.
And if you looked at the stats, I think, you know,
they did hit two homers back to back homers. I

(26:18):
think off of him, but uh, there's not a lot
of homers hit one hundred mine hour plus fastballs, and
so that's that's certainly an advantage for a young pitcher
that that you know, you can make more mistakes, and
guys tend to follow them off or or not have,
you know, swing through some of the mistakes you make
in the middle of the plate when you throw that hard. Really,
you know, to me, the long jevity of it is

(26:38):
to see if you know when it's when it's Velo
comes down a little bit or as he as he
pitches in a long season in the major leagues and
in there's days where you don't feel great and you're
you're not pitching in the hundred mile an hour range,
and you have to figure out ways to get guys
out when you don't have your best fastball. I think
that's the true test of longevity and whether or not
you know you have a chance to be one of

(26:59):
the Alzheimer's or you know you certainly have the ability.
And you look at his size and body type, is
is what you would want when you look at at
starting pitchers and guys that that really throw the ball
with with a lot of velocity, but don't have to
to do a ton to do that, Like it comes
out pretty pretty easy. He's always been a hard thrower,

(27:21):
and so uh I again, I think it goes back
to how he can execute his off speed pitches and
then you know whether he can really come up with
you know, command that when you don't have your best fastball,
can you still get out? So those are the greats
the greats can do, is they could figure out different
ways to get you out even when there's stuff is

(27:41):
is tired or not quite what it usually is. And
and so that to me is is the true test
of a guy that is is uh is in it,
you know, going to be a great pitcher for.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
The long haul. You look at top the home run
race in Major League Baseball and there's some some of
the usual you know suspects, right, Otan He's there, Judges there,
Schwarper's there. But then he hat Kyle Rowley who's leading
the world in home runs and he's got as many
now as he has in full seasons in his career.

(28:12):
How sustainable is this, especially for a guy who's playing
every day as a catcher.

Speaker 5 (28:17):
Yeah, I mean it's been very impressive. I think, you know, people,
Seattle is not a good home run park, and for
him to be doing this in Seattle as a catcher,
I mean, he's had some amazing home run per at
bat numbers in previous seasons for a catcher, So I
think it is a little bit you know, I think

(28:40):
how many he has already is eye opening. But I
think when you look at, you know, like some of
the numbers per at bat that he's had in this past,
you know, it's not totally surprising that he's hitting a
bunch of home runs. But I do think it's worth
recognizing that in Seattle as a catcher, he's doing some
amazing things. So it'll be interesting to see I think

(29:00):
moving forward. Doug was with when you have a guy
with this kind of home run prowess, do you do
you continue to catch him and uh, you know, in
the long term and and and possibly wear him down
a little bit, or do you start to look at
more of whether he can transition to a few more
dhs and first base type situations where you really optimally

(29:22):
take advantage of the idea that he could hit fifty
homers a year if he's rested and and and and
you know, playing more games. So I think that's something
to think about. But it's been it's been really cool
as far as just to watch and and he obviously
has a great nickname when you call somebody the big dumper,

(29:42):
and he's totally fine with it. I I can get
on board with rooting for a guy like that.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Big dumpers and all timer big dumpers and all Timer. Well,
let's have a happy force. Allways, Levelless, do you talk
about baseball and we'll keep our fingers crossed that that
Ethan doesn't have to doesn't have to be the other
brother not selected number one overall in a week and
a half. We'll tucks him.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
At Okay, that sounds good. Thanks bugs, all right?

Speaker 3 (30:08):
That that's Matt Holliday, good friend and a fifteen year
All Star, fifteen year Major Leaguers, seven time All Star,
four time Silver slug and World Series champion in eleven
with the Saint Louis Cardinals. Let's get to Jason Stewart
with the.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
News, No No turns. This is the headline news.

Speaker 7 (30:29):
Hey, Doug, I don't know if you caught this. Last night,
Donald Trump was doing kind of this victory lap with
this bill that's about to go through Congress, and he
was talking to a bunch of Iowa voters I guess
you would say constituents last night, and he made this
proclamation about what might be coming to the White House lawn.

Speaker 6 (30:51):
So every one of our National Park battlefields and historic
sites are going to have special events in Ota America
two fifty and I even think we're gonna have a
UFC fight. We're gonna have Does anybody watch UFC The
Great Dana World. We're gonna have a UFC fight. We're
gonna have a UFC fight. Think of this on the
grounds of the White House. We have a lot of

(31:13):
land there. We're gonna build a little We're not Dani's
gonna do it. Daniel's great, one of a kind. We're
gonna have a UFC Fight Championship fight, full fight, like
twenty twenty five thousand people, and we're gonna do that
as part of two fifty olds. So we're gonna have
some incredible events, some professional events, some amateur events, but
the UFC Fight's gonna be a big deal too.

Speaker 7 (31:34):
And now, Doug, I'm not I'm not an MMA guy.
I know you watch it. It's not for me, but
I know a lot of listeners here are big fans.
I get it. I get the appeal, I get the popularity.
There just seems something a little bit unsavory about having
that sport on the grounds of the White House.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
I don't know if it's.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
Like your own dude, It's like, look, no, you're not
You're not wrong again, And this comes from somebody who
I mean, we were talking this week right about how
bought the fights last weekend and and enjoyed them. But
this is it very very much feels like the Roman
gladiatorial games to celebrate, you know, to celebrate the emperor,

(32:18):
doesn't it it.

Speaker 8 (32:21):
Yeah, Caesar returns triumphant from gaul.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Let's put the let's put the sleeves.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
It's obviously and like, look, Dana's Dana's been brilliant, right,
He's he navigated the the COVID landscape. He's embraced President Trump.
President Trump goes to he went to the UFC fight.
I think it was last one. I don't think he
went to the last one. He went to the previous one.
And they all come over and pay homage to them

(32:49):
or whatever. But like, if we think of Americana, I
don't think UFC and m M A is Yeah, I
don't think that that's a miss.

Speaker 7 (33:04):
I agree with you. Now, the uh what would well?

Speaker 3 (33:07):
And so I guess the question is what what would be?
Does it have to be baseball.

Speaker 8 (33:10):
At I think baseball pastime. I wouldn't do it on
the Rose Garden. I mean, you've got a perfectly good
baseball stadium in DC.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
But it didn't think Yeah, it's like, you know, we
have a stadium right around the corner, like we got
this thing. I had a friend who worked for him
in the first in the first administration, and he's like,
look when he goes out to speak to people. Just
understand a lot of times it's whoever he talked to
last that he likes. He's going to say something that

(33:39):
they said, and it just doesn't it feel like, I
don't know, we might because because if you listen to it,
he said we might, and then he's like, I'm not
going to build it. Data is going to build it.
I don't know, twenty twenty five thousand seats, like like
logistics or whatever. It feels like somebody was just spitballing
ideas and Data's like, you know, we'd like to do, Like,
let's have one out there. Ah, sure sounds good. Don't

(34:03):
run it by anybody. Don't know logistics have possibilities or
if it's really a good idea, just sounds like a
good idea at the time.

Speaker 7 (34:11):
Now, the Dallas Mavericks have announced their roster for the
Summer League basketball that starts the next week. Doug sure, really,
the only name that we care about the Dallas Mavericks
Summer League roster is a Cooper Flag. I'm just wondering, uh,
since your your other job is a full time Division

(34:31):
one head coach, like as a coach watching Cooper Flag
in his initial games against pros. What what are you
going to be looking for as far as where he's
at developmentally and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
I just think how it How how do you use him?
I think that's the big question, Like what is he
He's a really good player, but he's not a five?
You know, is he a wing or is he more
kind of forished? I know we say, hey, it's positionless basketball, like, yeah,

(35:05):
that sounds good. He's I wonder if there's there's this
misconception from some people, like, well, he brought the basketball
up the court. That doesn't make him a point guard,
right like when the Mavericks went to the finals two
years ago. Kyrie Irving dribbles the ball a lot and
does make plays, but most people will tell you, like,

(35:27):
Kyrie's not a point guard, Luca is, So how are
you going to use him? Because I don't think the
point guard dominant ball handler thing is his thing at
the next level because that comes with making all kinds
of reads. It's obviously inorganically going to force him out
beyond the three point line. And he's he's unbelievably skilled

(35:50):
and talented, but it's it's more playing the four than
anything else. Like a ball handling four. So I just
think how he's used and where his skill set best
fits on an NBA floor, and then kindergarten. Youbody, Yet,
you don't really see that in the summer league, but
you do get a sense of how they think he's

(36:12):
going to play, what can best accentuate the positives in
his game. That's what I'd be looking for.

Speaker 7 (36:18):
Most among the summer league debuts that we've seen in
the last twenty five years. Right, I remember Lonzo was
a big deal. I think because of LeVar ball. Zion's
was a big deal. You and I went to Vegas
for a Wemby's debut, Like, where do you think this
ranks among those as far as hype goes for summer

(36:39):
league debuts.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
You mean with Cooper Flag? Yes, well, because it's supposed
to be against Browning and the Lakers, I think it
will be massive, And look, Bronni should dominate anytime you
track these things. Anyone who plays summer league who's played

(37:03):
at all in the NBA the year before usually dominate
because you're playing against guys that many of them have
never played professional basket before, let alone NBA basketball. But
he did have a very enigmatic year even in the
G League. I mean some he was really inefficient for
about the first half of the year, and he had
one decent game in a blowout in the NBA. So

(37:28):
I think it's in it's it's will be a top
anybody's charts of all time hype because one Cooper Flag
is a name everybody knows, everyone knew he'd go number
one overall. Then you throw in the Brownie James factor
on the other side, and it's the Lakers and Las
Vegas is like the second home to Lakers. I think

(37:48):
it's right there above that of Wemby and most any
other summer league debut that we've seen, Zion Williamson type
of debut. That that's why I think it recks and
that Chason Stewart news.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by The
Herd Line News.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
I'm Doug Gollyvillion for Colin coming up in the Herd,
a former women's basketball or she's still a women's astual
legend weighs in on Caitlyn Clark and Angel Reese. That's
up coming next.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Easter not a im Pacific.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Doug Gollievan for Collins, The Herd, Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio
app Jaycetu, and I grew up in southern California, so
we know names like Penny Uh, Penny Toldner, who of
course was a superstar at Long Beach State, and Cheryl Miller,
who is a superstar at USC in women's basketball. Of course,

(38:43):
Cheryl has gone on to being a media star. Uh.
She was a longtime sideline reporter in the NBA, and
now with the WNBA starting to really get some traction,
especially with obviously the addition of Kaitlin Clark, there's been
lots to talk about Caitlin Clark and the Angel rees rivalry.

(39:05):
I heard this. This is Keishawn Johnson's podcast. He had
the great Cheryl Miller on the Hall of Famer and
she had this to say, the comparison of that rivalry
with Magic and Bird.

Speaker 9 (39:17):
The reason I do it is, and it just because.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
I'm old school.

Speaker 9 (39:21):
You had Magic and Larry who competed in college, but
it has championships, so Magic wand Larry didn't. It's kind
of like the same thing a little with Angel Reese
and Caitlin Clark. But the difference is with the men.
It's a rivalry, yeah, and it's a great theater. The
narrative is always different with the women. We were either petty,

(39:44):
we're jealous, envious. You know, we can't just be are
two people who just generally don't like you. And that's okay.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
I don't have to like it.

Speaker 9 (39:55):
I respect your game and everything else, but we don't
have to be cool bay y'all. But it's the narrative
by the media that bothers.

Speaker 3 (40:06):
The narrative with the media. What's the narrative with the media.
All we can do is evaluate how these women have
acted towards Caitlin Clark, and it appears to be about jealousy,
about pettiness, not about competitiveness. Right, that's just a reality

(40:32):
to it. I mean, every person I speak with in business,
in the business of sports, every person, men and women,
they all say, like, I don't understand what's going on
with these women. They have the golden ticket. And it's

(40:55):
not just that they don't appreciate the golden ticket. They
think the golden ticket is supposed to be honored that
they found it, you know, that's the crazy part about it. Obviously,
the Golden Ticket is a reference to Charlie and the
chocolate factory, right, I mean, just imagine if Charlie, you

(41:19):
know who they is, they had all those people living
in one house, like his mom is, his uncle, his grandpa, whatever,
and he gets the golden ticket and he's like, hey,
you're supposed to be honored that me Charlie found you
golden ticket. Like yeah, that's not how it works. Not
how it works. It could be listen, it could be

(41:44):
Magic and Bird. The problem is that Angel Reese right now,
and even you know, Caitlin Clark, but not anywhere near
the two best players in the game, or especially She's
not at that level yet. Nor do people actually care
that much about how good you are. It's just about
following and Calm Clark they love and Angel Reshia's polarizing.

(42:06):
Cut him next. Lamar Jackson's going to try and do
something as a leader. I don't know if he's equipped
to do. What is it? Find out next in the Herd,
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Doug Gottlieb

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