November 26, 2025 • 37 mins
Doug reacts to comments made by Bengals' quarterback Joe Burrow as he is facing questions about why he is going to play when the team is out of the playoffs. Doug weighs in on the Shedeur Sanders situation this week as Doug doesn't think he handled a recent question about his head coach very well. Doug welcomes former NFL player and current FSR analyst Rich Ohrnberger onto the show to talk about Shedeur, the Thanksgiving games and all of the headlines around the NFL. Plus, Isaac Lowenkron takes Doug through a game of "For Better or Worse?".
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five,
twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching apps car from America Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox
Sports Radio. This show is sponsored by DraftKings sports booking,
(00:26):
official sports betting partner of the NFL and NBA, and
right now you can use the promo code Gottlieb to
claim your special offer DraftKings Again.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Promo codes Gottlieb at DraftKings. The Crown is yours. Welcome,
Welcome in, Jay Stu, You'll love this. So as you
guys know. And I popped on the show yesterday from
the airport. We were in Saint Thomas, the Virgin Islands
for the last week with my with my basketball team,
and it was I mean when I say the weather
(00:56):
was perfect, this is a a from somebody who grew
up in southern California. It was perfect, warm but not
too hot. It's like eighty five every day, a little
bit human but not no bugs, no not like perfect,
and we're supposed to get like fifty five mile in
our wins this afternoon still may happen here in Green Bay.
(01:18):
We're supposed to get just like a dusting and I'm
looking at like five or six inches of snow when
it was supposed to be like an inch of snow.
I was on an island like yesterday, and we're digging
out the snow today. But such is life. Welcome to
the Gottlieb Show. Good to be back, Good to be
with you. Let's talk some spots, shall we. I heard
(01:40):
something from Joe Burrow, and it's really interesting, Like Joe
Burrow today is going to be healed hailed as a hero, right,
I mean, just like like you go through the heroes
of our lifetime in sports, and Joe Burrow's going to
be listed among those guys. Because well, this is what
(02:04):
he said. What he was asked about the argument being
made the Bengals should not play him tomorrow or the
rest of the season because they're out of the playoffs.
Here's what Joe Burrow had to say.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I understand why people feel that way, but if you
look at it from my perspective, I'm a football player,
and if I get hurt, I'm going to go through
the rehab process, and then I'm going to let everybody
know when I feel like I can go out there
and play. I'm not gonna ever go to somebody and say, yeah,
(02:37):
I'm healthy, but no, I don't think. I don't think
I should go out there and play. That doesn't make
a lot of sense to me. I'm not going to
live my life and play this game scared of something happening.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, And the idea is that we're somehow making it
heroic for Joe Burrow to do his job, which is
be quarterback of the Bengals. What he's saying is like,
I'm a football player. I play football. When there's a
football game, it makes total sense. And here's the I
(03:10):
don't know if it's a catch twenty two or jaxtaposition Chase,
do you you're you can parse my words as as
much as you'd like and tell me what you think.
But on one hand, and Jason, I think you like
to poke fun at gen Z rightfully so for how
(03:32):
they have become just an entitled generation of people. But
if you think about it, the people who are asking
Joe Burrow, why are you playing the games don't mean
anything because you got a one percent chance of making
the playoffs. Those are the same people who are critical
of modern day athletes for being soft, or for only
(03:55):
playing when they want to play, or for load management. Like,
on one hand, our generation, right gen X, was the
one that came up with load management. Our generation is
the one that said, hey, let's be smart, don't play
a guy when he needed because all he can do
is get hurt. And yet our generation is the same
(04:16):
one that it's like, hey, those guys are soft. They
don't play every game like previous generations and our generation did.
It's it's it's kind of a fascinating social experiment here.
And yeah, I mean I there's lots of things you
learn the more you're around sports. First thing you learn
I think people are learning, especially this is not everybody
(04:38):
plays football loves football, but Joe Burrow does.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Not.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Everybody that that that plays sports understands that the job
of sport is not just to play when you want
to play or when it's good for the team to play,
but at all times. And again it's our generation, the
older generation, that that let me give you a college
(05:03):
football example, right, we are and I have been harshly
critical of players sitting out of bowl games in the past,
or sitting out of games you know red there's there's
a movement. There's been a movement of guys four games
in the year red shirting and saying refusing to play
because things weren't what they thought. And if you do
(05:25):
have the ability to red shirt, even if you play
four games in college football, it's easy to be critical
of those guys and say, what are you doing. You
sign up to play for a school. You play for
the school. If they want to play you one snap
or one Hunter snaps, you play. That's what you do,
and now you're getting compensated to play. That's what you do.
On the other hand, it's our generation which came up
with these rules. It's our generation which is firing coaches three,
(05:49):
four or five games in the season, which essentially cancels
the season and says we have no hope and says
we're looking to move on anyway. So I think that
Joe Burrow is a heroic figure, not about heroic but
it's the kind of message that when you say it,
how can you not be a Joe Burrow fan. On
(06:11):
the other hand, isn't he simply doing his job. It's
like the old Chris Rock bit on guys saying, like
I take care of my kids, you're supposed to take
care of your kids. Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do.
It's the same thing as a quarterback. Why are we
(06:32):
celebrating a guy for playing quarterback on a three and
eight team when he's making a ton of money to
be the quarterback. Whether they're three and eight or eight
and three, it shouldn't matter. And the root cause of
the problem is not gen Z, it's gen X. We
came up with all these ideas, and we've come up
(06:54):
with the decision to fire coaches early on the season
and essentially cancel their seasons. We came up with oldmand
so we know we shouldn't be surprised when players dive
into that. But we also should feel super weird and
self conscious about guys saying, Hey, I think it's weird
to even celebrate the fact that I'm playing football.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Go ahead, Jason, it's an interesting Uh, you're right, it's
an interesting human experiment. It's an interesting social experiment. And
I'll explain. So I'm guessing in our talk space there
is an overlap between the people that have been against
load management for years and the same people probably this
(07:37):
week being like the Bengals are idiots for playing Joe Burrow. Yes,
they want they want their cake and they want to
eat it too. Now it's an interesting social experiment. And
you know me, I don't. I don't do this lightly.
I don't go here often, but I will say this,
how much how much does race play into this? How
much of the load management is black guys not working
(07:58):
who make a lot of money? And this week don't
play Joe Burrow? Why would you play Joe Burrow? The
white quarterback? But how about do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It hadn't come to my mind at all.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
I do think, I do think it strikes me this week?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Oh I well, I don't. I don't know on on Burrow.
I mean, part of Burrow's thing is he has been
hurt a lot, right, he has been hurt a lot.
So it's it's more than just like, well, you've never
been hurt like he'd been hurt a lot, or it
feels that way. I do think that there are other instances.
NBA players probably catch the most flack for it that
(08:40):
there's always going to be a group of people that
you know, you have the racial bias of a black
guy not going to play in a game is somehow
a bigger deal than a white guy not playing a game.
My issue with that is I have a blind spot
to it because it just doesn't It's not that I
would never think about it, but the more you say it,
(09:02):
the more you go, yeah, okay. I don't know if
it's there with football, because I think that people believe
that football players ultimately everybody gets hurt when it's not
really the case. It's not really the case. It's like
Tom Brady played twenty years, Yeah, the turs acl Yeah,
(09:23):
but that's literally like the only injury he ever had.
It's kind of crazy, and he was a statue back there, statue.
But it is a tremendous social experiment.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
And you bring up the that the fact that there
we always think that all these people when they get
to the professional level are in it to win it, like, yes,
their only goal is to win at all costs, especially
in team sports. And remember Cam Newton said this about
six weeks ago.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
Remember, would you rather being a spot where you can
individually achieve success, have statistics and lose or would you
want to be someone that contributes to a team that
can win a Super Bowl?
Speaker 7 (10:07):
And I'm glad you asked that.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
When you're talking about individual play, this is how I
this is how I take care of my family. Team
success don't take care of my family. So if I'm
thinking about it from a personal standpoint, of course, we
want the best of both worlds. But if you're asking
me what gives you extincsions, what gives you top tier money,
what gives you certain things, there's some more players that
(10:31):
have rings, championships and things that are struggling rather than
son quote unquote bus that has had money and they're
doing right by their money.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah. I don't. Yeah, it's just it's such a bad narrative.
I do think there are people that believe that. I
just don't think they're the brightest people in the world.
But yeah, that's what some people do. Believe and get
credence to what you're saying.
Speaker 8 (11:01):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Sesame Straight helped raise all of us. Now it's your
turn donate this holiday season at sesame dot org because
the world needs Sesame and Sesame needs you. Rich Ornberger
will join us upcoming in about six seven minutes. This
is the Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
Shor Sanders had another time with the media today. Here's
(11:34):
what he had to say.
Speaker 9 (11:36):
All your supporters out, I dare say that that Kevin
Stefanski was sabotageing me.
Speaker 7 (11:44):
So you just want to start trouble.
Speaker 10 (11:46):
Well, I know, I want to ask you with your
relationship with him?
Speaker 11 (11:50):
Yeah, Well, what people do outside the building isn't really
in my control, is not in my power. So youah,
like I go out there and tell him to do whatever.
You know, that's that's not nothing not control or nothing
I could do. But overall, you know, I'm just happy
to be here cause Stefanski, you've been coaching, uh since
I got here, and uh you've been doing a very
great job, you know with everything that's going on.
Speaker 10 (12:12):
But what is your relationship like with him? And when
we don't see you guys together.
Speaker 11 (12:18):
Definitely like a coach, you know, he tells me what
I need to do on and off the field. We've
definitely grown our relationship and everything is grown. So I'm
just thankful to be here.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Well, that was a non answer answer, wasn't That was
a non answer answer, And that non answer tells you
everything you need to know. Tells you everything you need
to know. Oh wait, there's more. Here's Kendrick Perkins. He
was on a podcast this week. This is his comment
(12:52):
about shador Sanders.
Speaker 12 (12:54):
Shadula Sanders is the most powerful black man since two
thousand and nine. You know it happened in two thousand
and nine, that's when President Obama got elected in office.
He's the most powerful black man since two thousand and nine.
You said you were sitting there watching the game in
(13:16):
your house, and what you did?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You ran?
Speaker 12 (13:18):
You ran with the TV.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right, what was you doing?
Speaker 7 (13:21):
dB?
Speaker 12 (13:23):
You was chairing like when Shadua Sanders is on the field.
And when I say powerful, powerful, because it's two sides
of it, right, think about it. Okay, you got the
black community. He bringing the whole black community together. I
ain't ran across one black person that then said one
bad thing about should do it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
We won't even.
Speaker 12 (13:44):
Guess what not one because he has the balance. He
has the balance of that. I'm arrogant, but I'm humble too,
and he having fun with it. And on top of that,
y'all want me to say it ain't y'all want me
to feel it ain't gonna happen. He's the most powerful
black man in sports, no other, no other matter of fact,
(14:05):
black man. He the most powerful player in sports.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I don't really know where to go with a lot
of that. I will say this I have. I mean,
half my team is is black. I have half my
staff as black, and and the general consensus from my
staff guys is they are big Shador and Dion fans,
(14:32):
Chad and Dion fans. He's not the most powerful guy
in sports. I do think that the black community by
and large embraces him and seems to have made this
into some sort of uh racial thing. Well it's it's
(14:54):
comedy because Dylan Gabriel is not white, you know. And
oh yeah, by the way, the guy who was the
starting quarterback before injury for the Cleveland Browns, who has
the largest guarantee in the history of the league, just
so happens to be black as well. That's the actual
(15:16):
starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns. So there's a lot
too it that has nothing to do with race, and
that Kendrick Perkins, maybe he's been hanging out with Ryan
Clark too much, is making it completely about race. But
I do think the black community has embraced him. I
don't think any of the other stuff is true or
factual or whatever. But I just again, this is why
(15:37):
it better work, because if it doesn't, nobody wants that
on their team. Nobody wants the idea of if you
don't play a guy, you're racist or you don't want
him to do well. And Shador is not helping it. Mike, Look,
you have to stop lying to yourself and lying to
(15:58):
the public. You do whether or not Shador has a
good repute, a good relationship with Kevin Stefanski or not.
The answer he gave is a telling answer, and it
is a terrible answer because it throws fuel to the fire.
It's very easy because his initial part of the answer
(16:20):
was great. The initial part of the answer was there's
lots of noise outside the building. I can't control that,
period stop fix it. Then the guy's like, no, but
what's your actual relationship? Like, well, he's like a coach
and it's gotten better, and he tells me what to do.
(16:42):
The only answer you need is, hey, people outside, they
don't know what's your relationship? Like great, awesome, he's been great.
I keep learning. I love his offense. I love it here.
I can't wait to get out there and show everybody
what we're putting in between last week and this week.
(17:02):
That's the answer. That's how you do it. And we
can sit there and go like, well, he's young, he
isn't bull bull because he could take coaching from his dad,
and his dad is not helping him. His dad is
hurting him because he just killed his coach once again
without trying, without openly trying to play that answer for
(17:26):
me one more time before bringing rich Hornberger, remember listen
to the entire because the first part is good. First
part is like, hey, I can't control everything else. But
then when they follow it up and ask what your
asking relationship is, that's when he stepped in it.
Speaker 9 (17:38):
All your supporters out, I'd dare say that that Kevin
Stefanski was sabotage.
Speaker 7 (17:45):
And so you just want to start troubling out.
Speaker 10 (17:48):
I know, I want to ask you what your relationship
with him?
Speaker 11 (17:52):
Yeah, well, what people do outside the building isn't really
in my control, is not in my power, So you
had like I go out there and tell him to
do it. You know, that's that's not nothing I could
control or nothing I could do. But overall, you know, I'm.
Speaker 7 (18:06):
Just happy to be here. Cose Stefanski.
Speaker 11 (18:07):
He's been coaching, uh since I got here, and uh,
he've been doing a very great job, you know with
everything that's going on.
Speaker 10 (18:14):
But what is your relationship like with him? And when
we don't see you guys together.
Speaker 11 (18:20):
Definitely like a coach, you know, he tells me what
I need to do on and off the field. We've
definitely grown our relationship and everything is grown. So I'm
just thankful to be here.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, he is, he says grown. He didn't say it
was good. He didn't say it was great. He made
it out like he'sssos do on and off the field.
It feels like he's like a parent. It's a bad answer.
It's bad as he was doing so well up into that,
but hey, he's been doing great with everything. What's your
(18:52):
relationship actually? Like it's like a coach, like a player.
Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Let's welcome in
Rich Ornberger. He joins us now on Fox Sports Trade
He's got his own daily radio show in San Diego.
Plus's co host to Countdown to Kickoff with Jared Smith
Brian no airs each Sun eighteen nine am New Eastern Time.
Listen live on any of our Fox Sports Radio Philisy
(19:13):
iHeartRadio at presented by Bett MGM rich. What'd you think
of Shador Sanders's answer when he was asked about his
relationship with his coach.
Speaker 13 (19:23):
I didn't have an enormous problem with it, but I
do agree with you. There is an answer that is
going to lead to zero media questioning, zero criticism, and
then there's the answer that he gave. Look, everybody knows
the right answer. He grew up in a house with
(19:45):
a father who's a professional football player, former professional football
player turned coach. He has been media trained since he
was in high school. He knows exactly what he's doing
every step of the way. So trust me when I
tell you, and I don't need to tell you. But
he's not careless with his words. He knows what he's
(20:07):
doing and he knows what he's saying. When he says
it's a growing relationship instead of it's a great relationship,
he knows what he's inferring when he tells a reporter
who asks him about the relationship that he tells me
what to do on and off the field. He knows
that that is going to paint a portrayal of their
relationship in a certain light. That is going to lead
(20:29):
to some either condemnation from people around the Brown who,
you know, think that Shador is being strangle held by
this organization in some way, or it's going to be
you know, it's going to potentially lend credence to the
argument that he really needs to be reined in by
this organization. Whatever he knows, he's going to make a headline.
(20:53):
And so I completely agree with you that there is
a team friendly way to answer questions, and there is
the way he decided to answer the question, and he
knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Stut Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Okay, what
did you actually think of how he played?
Speaker 13 (21:13):
You know what, Look, he's got a lot to improve on,
but I can see the light.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
You know.
Speaker 13 (21:18):
I don't want to make the comparison because I don't
think it's apt. But if you looked at Josh Allen
when he came into the league, he was he was
an unfinished product. You know, he was an unfinished product,
and he was playing with the guy who I think
offensively really understood what he needed in Brian Gable, and
(21:38):
he developed over years. It literally took years into a
top tier caliber starting quarterback in the league. And then
you know, last year he won the MVP. So he's
continued to grow and he's continued to assert himself in
the correct directions. Now do I think that Cador Sanders
could ever play to the level of Josh Allen, I
(21:59):
don't know. I mean, it's so hard to get to
that top echelon, you know, where we're talking about maybe
the five greatest players playing in the NFL currently. It's
hard to get there, So will he I don't know.
But what I can tell you about the samples of
Shador Sanders that I'm watching is there times where he's
(22:20):
doing some really bone headed things with the football. There's
times where the scheme isn't helping him, and there's time
where I can see exactly the reason why you know,
he was considered a top tier talent leaving college and
then you know, fell down the draft board obviously for
you know, either exterior reasons or personality reasons or you know,
(22:41):
or potentially certain talent evaluators just didn't love the way
he played. But I can see the talent, So it's
a little bit of a mixed bag. It's still extremely
early to say for certain whether or not he's going
to be, you know, a Josh Allen or if he's
going to be you know, sort of an afterthought quarterback,
you know that ends up being a career backup.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Stuck Ottleep Show here on Fox Sports Radio. That's the
voice of Rich Ornberger. Course, Rich played in the league,
covers the league. You can listen to them here on
Fox Sports Radio Countdown to Kickoff every Sunday morning, which
is presented by Bett mgim. All right, let's get to
the teams that actually matter. That's my one thing about
the Browns, like, why are we talking about the teams
that don't matter? Game that matters? Packers and Lions. Packers
(23:27):
and Lions. Game wasn't truly competitive when it's playing Lambeau.
But that's first game of the season. New staff for
the Lions. This time around, Detroit's a three point favorite.
What do you think of Packers Lions Ford Field tomorrow
noon Central time?
Speaker 13 (23:46):
Man, I'll tell you what, it's really good to get
the Packers at home if you're the Lions, Because the Lions,
I think we were all expecting them to be a
more complete team than they have been so far today.
I think Jan Campbell has struggled in some ways calling
(24:09):
this offense, and then as a result of having Micah
Parsons that you have to plan your offense around when
you face the Green Bay Packers. That doesn't make life
any easier. I mean, he's a he's a great player,
and you know, you better get those tackles some help
he's got. He's got some really high level offensive lineman
(24:32):
on that on that team. But you either need to
get the ball out of Jared Goff's hands immediately, or
you need to get Penne Suole and Taylor Decker some help.
And and and that means chip help from the backs
and tight ends coming in there and bumping Michael Parsons
off this rush. And that means double teams fighting to
(24:52):
Micah Parson's way. And that also means getting Jamar Gibbs
or Jamir Gibbs involved in the passing games, you know,
I mean, even if even if you're only hitting two
yard passes or three yard passes, getting the ball into
hands of a playmaker beyond the line of scrimmage. If
he can make one man miss, we know he can
make the defense pay. And that is going to help
(25:15):
Jared Goff get rid of the football sooner, which I
think should be. It'll be mission critical in this game
against the Packers.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Caleb Williams, Now, I mean sixteen touchdowns, four interceptions. Everybody
has an opinion on a week to week basis, Give
me the thirty thousand foot view of the Bears of
Caleb Williams. As Friday they get the Eagles coming off
that loss to the Cowboys.
Speaker 13 (25:41):
Caleb Williams has improved a great deal with Ben Johnson
as his as his coach and you know, kind of
by proxy, his offensive coordinator. I'm not saying that I'm
I'm a believer in Kate Williams, and I think that
he is going to be, you know, the next Steve
Young or anything that resembles like a Patrick Mahomes for example.
(26:06):
But I've seen some upside here since getting a voice
in the headset. But really seems to understand how to
limit his liabilities and how to really focus on his strength.
And he's shown some improvisational skills at times this season
that really impressed me. Now, you know, do I think
(26:26):
that they're going to end up winning the NFC North,
the Bears led by Caleb Williams, I don't know. I
think that's a really competitive division, and I think a
lot can happen after Thanksgiving, So we'll see starting with
the Eagles here on Friday. But do I find myself
more and more pressed with Caleb Williams, Yeah, I do.
(26:50):
I think he had kind of a rough start. We
were just talking about Shrador. He kind of had a
rough entry into the NFL as well because of some
of the grumblings about how father was going to get
involved if the wrong team drafted him, and there was
some scuttle butt about whether or not he would even
play for the Bears, and you know, they end up
taking him, and you know, that storyline kind of goes away,
(27:12):
but the feeling I don't think ever did so I
think that stuck with him for the first full season.
I think here with a new head coach, he's looking
much more competent and so this could be a year
where they either sneak into the I would guess that
the Bears end up being a wildcard team. If I
were to put like my name on it right now,
(27:35):
I think the Bears don't end up winning the NFC North.
I do think they sneak into the postseason as a
wildcard team and then from there you roll the dice.
You know, who knows, maybe they can sneak off with
the first round win.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Stuck Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Trader, that's the
voice of Rich Ornberger. Rich nobody thought much, myself included
the Cowboys. Yet here they are at five hundred, fresh
off win over the Eagles and the Chiefs. Everybody just
assumes that figure it out, and they have, but they haven't.
That's a huge game for the Chiefs, and suddenly the
(28:07):
Cowboys seem competitive with it. Can they upset the Chiefs tomorrow?
Speaker 13 (28:12):
They can?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
They can?
Speaker 13 (28:16):
I think that if you believe all of the hype,
you assume like the Chiefs are are going to win
another Super Bowl or appear in another Super Bowl, and
the Dallas Cowboys are destined to be, you know, dog
meat of the NFC. But don't buy the hype. I mean,
just watch the games. The Cowboys have all pro talent
(28:39):
on that offense, The Cowboys have a defense that's really
struggled this year, but they've won some track meets and
they've made some plays when they've needed to defensively in
tight games. Now, in the NFL, it's very different from college.
You know, Look, you can have teams on your schedule
late in the season where you're gonna beat them by
(29:00):
forty points because you're thirty seven and a half point favorites.
You know, in the NFL, everybody can beat everybody. So
you can't convince me that this is just a rollover
game for the Chiefs, like they are going to just
you know, just because they're coming off a fresh window
going to ot with the Colts, and you know, and
and you know they're playing on a short week like that,
(29:22):
they will automatically lose. No, they're not going to roll
over for anybody. But I also don't consider them automatic
winners either because of where they've been and who they are,
they still got to play these games in Dallas Cowboys,
they're a formidable threat. And I think Dak Prescott is
playing some really good football and nobody seems to notice
(29:43):
because he's got just above a five hundred average or
five hundred record. With the five to five and one
record that the Cowboys are boasting right now.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Last thing
we started the show talk about Joe Burrow and how
now he's going to be this figure because he's playing
football when they have a very very very medusical chance
of making the playoffs and rich. It does strike me
as ironic that you're in my generation, like we're the
(30:13):
ones that kind of came up with the idea of
sitting guys. It might have been agents back in college football, right,
but sitting guys because well they didn't have much to
play for and load management in the NBA, and it
doesn't make sense. Nobody would thirty years ago, nobod would say, hey,
you shouldn't play because you're not in the playoffs. But
now it's very much part of the conversation. That conversation
(30:35):
has been started by our generation. But we're the same
generation that's critical of the guys now for missing games
when they're healthy enough to play. Where do you stand
on Joe Burrow becoming kind of a hero for yesterday
going like, look, I'm a football player. If I get hurt,
I'll rehab and I'll come back next year. It be fine, right.
Speaker 13 (30:56):
I love the attitude. I love the attitude, and you
know I agree with you. I think there are times
where a coach needs to come back and throttle back
a player, but that needs to be how it goes.
I don't think. I don't think it's a good message
to send when you're a team leader and one of
the best players not only on the field but on
(31:17):
the planet, and in a reckless game like football, you're
saying things like, hey, I got to really look out
for the future, not only mine, but the future of
this franchise because they're really gonna need and rely on
my talents next year. No, no, no, screw that. You
need to be the guy that's chomping out the bit
to get back on the field. And if anybody is
(31:39):
going to say anything about whether or not you should play,
it needs to be the voices in the room around you.
You know, it needs to be your head coach saying
absolutely not, under any circumstances are we sending you back
out there. You know it's still too early. You know,
you miss nine weeks of the season with turf tow
what's two more weeks, what's three more weeks, Like, if
(32:01):
you want to play when we're closer to the finish
line here, just to get a couple of games on
your belt, we could have that conversation, but we're not
rushing you back in a lost season yet, Like that's
the way this should have been. If it's going to
be messaged, it should be messaged. So I think Joe
Burrow is pitch perfect here. If the coach thinks it's
okay for you to play, if the trainers and the
(32:22):
doctors think it's okay for you to play, then you
better go play football. Because guess what, you are a
grown man playing a kid's dean for a king's ransom,
and it is the best job on earth. And Doug,
I know you welcome me on because I like to
talk and I like to talk to you, but also
because of my playing experience, and I can tell you
it is one of the most fun games and most
(32:43):
fun things you could do with your life playing in
that league. So if you got a quarterback who does
want to get off the field, you got the wrong quarterback.
So I think Joe Burrow is hitting all of the
right notes, not only with the fan base, but with
his teammates. And that's the reason why he's one of
the best doing it.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
That's the voice of Rich Orenberger, former offensive lineman, hosts
his own daily show in San Diego, and you can
also hear him count down to Kickoff with Jared Smith
and Brian know Airs each Saturday between nine am and
new Eastern time. Listen live on our Fox Sports tradi
affiliates on the iHeartRadio app presented by bet MGM. Rich.
Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 13 (33:18):
Yeah, Happy Thanksgiving? Doug anytime, happy to do it.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Mm hmmm, Sesame Street
help raise all of us. Now it's your turn donate
this holiday season at sesame dot or. Because the world
needs ses to me and says to me needs you.
Let's go to Isaac Lohncrawm with the game.
Speaker 8 (33:50):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's the Doug gottlib Show, Fox Sports Radio. Ey sick
long Crow. What's the game today?
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Hey Doug.
Speaker 14 (34:01):
Before we get to the game, some rather interesting NFL
news just dropping The Detroit Lions just announced four time
Pro Bowl center Frank Ragnow is coming out of retirement.
Ragnow had retired in June after seven seasons in the NFL,
again a four time Pro Bowler, and now onto.
Speaker 8 (34:17):
The game for better or worse?
Speaker 14 (34:20):
Well timely? First topic for better or worse? The Packers
or the subject of this development moments ago? The Lions.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
The Lions better or worse than what Packers? Oh, Packers
are better. You don't go get Frank net raight Now
out of retirement unless there's something wrong at center. It
doesn't scream desperation. But I do think the Packers are
the better team.
Speaker 14 (34:46):
That's a good point. Perhaps it should have been Ragged
later instead of rag Now. All right, with that horrible
punt out of the way, for better or worse, two
more combatants tomorrow. The Cowboys are the Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I kind of think the Cowboys are better. I'm gonna
go Cowboys are better. Chiefs are worse because there's there's
a level of expectations on the Chiefs which normally resides
on the Cowboys.
Speaker 14 (35:11):
You know what, I'm with you one hundred percent on
there wouldn't have said it, you know, six weeks ago
or whatever and the final matchup of Thanksgiving. For better
or worse, the Ravens are the Steelers.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Oh, I think the Ravens are a lot better than
no Ravens playing the Bengals.
Speaker 14 (35:27):
Oh sorry, sorry, Ravens are the Steelers?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Sorry just.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
North in general?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, Ravens our quarterback is better. I think the Steelers
defense is massively overrated.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
I like the Ravens, all right.
Speaker 8 (35:40):
Uh.
Speaker 14 (35:41):
I have to qualify this by saying I'm not the
one who suggested this next one, so please don't shoot
the messenger here. But for better or worse, Justin Allen
or Anthony Roy.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
So Anthony Roy was the nation's leading scorer. He played
for me last year. He broke his ankle ten games in.
Justin Allen average twenty six game in the D three level,
and he had twenty seven and twenty eight in his
last two games. I'm going with Justin Allen because he
plays for me. Now that that's my answer. Okay, Andon
(36:13):
Roy plays for a different school. There you got, I'm
taking my guy.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
All right.
Speaker 14 (36:18):
This is going to be a Thanksgiving related item here.
For better or worse, dark meat or white meat?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Dark meat? Always always who eats. Who likes white meat?
White turkey meat? It's so dry?
Speaker 5 (36:36):
No, that isn't the white meat. Isn't it best? Because
you could best utilized gravy. Like the dark meat doesn't
need gravy, the white meat does, and it's a great combination.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I'm sure you're right. I don't like gravy, so I
like I think the dark meat works with the cranberry
and the stuffing or the dressing, whichever you do in
the sweet is all that. I think the dark meat
still works for it. But you're right. The white meat
is more absorbent, but it's absorbent for reason, and I
don't like gravy, and it's probably part of the reason
I don't like white meat.
Speaker 14 (37:08):
You cannot get this sort of Thanksgiving analysis anywhere else,
compared to this edition of For Better or Worse.
Speaker 12 (37:17):
Game.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Actually, I think you can get it everywhere, but I
just don't know if people share their knowledge their thoughts,
because look, I could be wrong. Maybe I'm wrong about
all of this. It's a Doug Gotlieb show on Fox
Sports Radio. The Midway is next. It's a Thanksgiving theme Midway.
You'll like it on the Doug Gottlieb Show. You're on
Fox Sports Radio.
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five,
twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching apps car from America Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox
Sports Radio. This show is sponsored by DraftKings sports booking,
(00:26):
official sports betting partner of the NFL and NBA, and
right now you can use the promo code Gottlieb to
claim your special offer DraftKings Again.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Promo codes Gottlieb at DraftKings. The Crown is yours. Welcome,
Welcome in, Jay Stu, You'll love this. So as you
guys know. And I popped on the show yesterday from
the airport. We were in Saint Thomas, the Virgin Islands
for the last week with my with my basketball team,
and it was I mean when I say the weather
(00:56):
was perfect, this is a a from somebody who grew
up in southern California. It was perfect, warm but not
too hot. It's like eighty five every day, a little
bit human but not no bugs, no not like perfect,
and we're supposed to get like fifty five mile in
our wins this afternoon still may happen here in Green Bay.
(01:18):
We're supposed to get just like a dusting and I'm
looking at like five or six inches of snow when
it was supposed to be like an inch of snow.
I was on an island like yesterday, and we're digging
out the snow today. But such is life. Welcome to
the Gottlieb Show. Good to be back, Good to be
with you. Let's talk some spots, shall we. I heard
(01:40):
something from Joe Burrow, and it's really interesting, Like Joe
Burrow today is going to be healed hailed as a hero, right,
I mean, just like like you go through the heroes
of our lifetime in sports, and Joe Burrow's going to
be listed among those guys. Because well, this is what
(02:04):
he said. What he was asked about the argument being
made the Bengals should not play him tomorrow or the
rest of the season because they're out of the playoffs.
Here's what Joe Burrow had to say.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
I understand why people feel that way, but if you
look at it from my perspective, I'm a football player,
and if I get hurt, I'm going to go through
the rehab process, and then I'm going to let everybody
know when I feel like I can go out there
and play. I'm not gonna ever go to somebody and say, yeah,
(02:37):
I'm healthy, but no, I don't think. I don't think
I should go out there and play. That doesn't make
a lot of sense to me. I'm not going to
live my life and play this game scared of something happening.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, And the idea is that we're somehow making it
heroic for Joe Burrow to do his job, which is
be quarterback of the Bengals. What he's saying is like,
I'm a football player. I play football. When there's a
football game, it makes total sense. And here's the I
(03:10):
don't know if it's a catch twenty two or jaxtaposition Chase,
do you you're you can parse my words as as
much as you'd like and tell me what you think.
But on one hand, and Jason, I think you like
to poke fun at gen Z rightfully so for how
(03:32):
they have become just an entitled generation of people. But
if you think about it, the people who are asking
Joe Burrow, why are you playing the games don't mean
anything because you got a one percent chance of making
the playoffs. Those are the same people who are critical
of modern day athletes for being soft, or for only
(03:55):
playing when they want to play, or for load management. Like,
on one hand, our generation, right gen X, was the
one that came up with load management. Our generation is
the one that said, hey, let's be smart, don't play
a guy when he needed because all he can do
is get hurt. And yet our generation is the same
(04:16):
one that it's like, hey, those guys are soft. They
don't play every game like previous generations and our generation did.
It's it's it's kind of a fascinating social experiment here.
And yeah, I mean I there's lots of things you
learn the more you're around sports. First thing you learn
I think people are learning, especially this is not everybody
(04:38):
plays football loves football, but Joe Burrow does.
Speaker 4 (04:42):
Not.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Everybody that that that plays sports understands that the job
of sport is not just to play when you want
to play or when it's good for the team to play,
but at all times. And again it's our generation, the
older generation, that that let me give you a college
(05:03):
football example, right, we are and I have been harshly
critical of players sitting out of bowl games in the past,
or sitting out of games you know red there's there's
a movement. There's been a movement of guys four games
in the year red shirting and saying refusing to play
because things weren't what they thought. And if you do
(05:25):
have the ability to red shirt, even if you play
four games in college football, it's easy to be critical
of those guys and say, what are you doing. You
sign up to play for a school. You play for
the school. If they want to play you one snap
or one Hunter snaps, you play. That's what you do,
and now you're getting compensated to play. That's what you do.
On the other hand, it's our generation which came up
with these rules. It's our generation which is firing coaches three,
(05:49):
four or five games in the season, which essentially cancels
the season and says we have no hope and says
we're looking to move on anyway. So I think that
Joe Burrow is a heroic figure, not about heroic but
it's the kind of message that when you say it,
how can you not be a Joe Burrow fan. On
(06:11):
the other hand, isn't he simply doing his job. It's
like the old Chris Rock bit on guys saying, like
I take care of my kids, you're supposed to take
care of your kids. Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do.
It's the same thing as a quarterback. Why are we
(06:32):
celebrating a guy for playing quarterback on a three and
eight team when he's making a ton of money to
be the quarterback. Whether they're three and eight or eight
and three, it shouldn't matter. And the root cause of
the problem is not gen Z, it's gen X. We
came up with all these ideas, and we've come up
(06:54):
with the decision to fire coaches early on the season
and essentially cancel their seasons. We came up with oldmand
so we know we shouldn't be surprised when players dive
into that. But we also should feel super weird and
self conscious about guys saying, Hey, I think it's weird
to even celebrate the fact that I'm playing football.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
Go ahead, Jason, it's an interesting Uh, you're right, it's
an interesting human experiment. It's an interesting social experiment. And
I'll explain. So I'm guessing in our talk space there
is an overlap between the people that have been against
load management for years and the same people probably this
(07:37):
week being like the Bengals are idiots for playing Joe Burrow. Yes,
they want they want their cake and they want to
eat it too. Now it's an interesting social experiment. And
you know me, I don't. I don't do this lightly.
I don't go here often, but I will say this,
how much how much does race play into this? How
much of the load management is black guys not working
(07:58):
who make a lot of money? And this week don't
play Joe Burrow? Why would you play Joe Burrow? The
white quarterback? But how about do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It hadn't come to my mind at all.
Speaker 5 (08:13):
I do think, I do think it strikes me this week?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Oh I well, I don't. I don't know on on Burrow.
I mean, part of Burrow's thing is he has been
hurt a lot, right, he has been hurt a lot.
So it's it's more than just like, well, you've never
been hurt like he'd been hurt a lot, or it
feels that way. I do think that there are other instances.
NBA players probably catch the most flack for it that
(08:40):
there's always going to be a group of people that
you know, you have the racial bias of a black
guy not going to play in a game is somehow
a bigger deal than a white guy not playing a game.
My issue with that is I have a blind spot
to it because it just doesn't It's not that I
would never think about it, but the more you say it,
(09:02):
the more you go, yeah, okay. I don't know if
it's there with football, because I think that people believe
that football players ultimately everybody gets hurt when it's not
really the case. It's not really the case. It's like
Tom Brady played twenty years, Yeah, the turs acl Yeah,
(09:23):
but that's literally like the only injury he ever had.
It's kind of crazy, and he was a statue back there, statue.
But it is a tremendous social experiment.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
And you bring up the that the fact that there
we always think that all these people when they get
to the professional level are in it to win it, like, yes,
their only goal is to win at all costs, especially
in team sports. And remember Cam Newton said this about
six weeks ago.
Speaker 6 (09:54):
Remember, would you rather being a spot where you can
individually achieve success, have statistics and lose or would you
want to be someone that contributes to a team that
can win a Super Bowl?
Speaker 7 (10:07):
And I'm glad you asked that.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
When you're talking about individual play, this is how I
this is how I take care of my family. Team
success don't take care of my family. So if I'm
thinking about it from a personal standpoint, of course, we
want the best of both worlds. But if you're asking
me what gives you extincsions, what gives you top tier money,
what gives you certain things, there's some more players that
(10:31):
have rings, championships and things that are struggling rather than
son quote unquote bus that has had money and they're
doing right by their money.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah. I don't. Yeah, it's just it's such a bad narrative.
I do think there are people that believe that. I
just don't think they're the brightest people in the world.
But yeah, that's what some people do. Believe and get
credence to what you're saying.
Speaker 8 (11:01):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Sesame Straight helped raise all of us. Now it's your
turn donate this holiday season at sesame dot org because
the world needs Sesame and Sesame needs you. Rich Ornberger
will join us upcoming in about six seven minutes. This
is the Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
Shor Sanders had another time with the media today. Here's
(11:34):
what he had to say.
Speaker 9 (11:36):
All your supporters out, I dare say that that Kevin
Stefanski was sabotageing me.
Speaker 7 (11:44):
So you just want to start trouble.
Speaker 10 (11:46):
Well, I know, I want to ask you with your
relationship with him?
Speaker 11 (11:50):
Yeah, Well, what people do outside the building isn't really
in my control, is not in my power. So youah,
like I go out there and tell him to do whatever.
You know, that's that's not nothing not control or nothing
I could do. But overall, you know, I'm just happy
to be here cause Stefanski, you've been coaching, uh since
I got here, and uh you've been doing a very
great job, you know with everything that's going on.
Speaker 10 (12:12):
But what is your relationship like with him? And when
we don't see you guys together.
Speaker 11 (12:18):
Definitely like a coach, you know, he tells me what
I need to do on and off the field. We've
definitely grown our relationship and everything is grown. So I'm
just thankful to be here.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Well, that was a non answer answer, wasn't That was
a non answer answer, And that non answer tells you
everything you need to know. Tells you everything you need
to know. Oh wait, there's more. Here's Kendrick Perkins. He
was on a podcast this week. This is his comment
(12:52):
about shador Sanders.
Speaker 12 (12:54):
Shadula Sanders is the most powerful black man since two
thousand and nine. You know it happened in two thousand
and nine, that's when President Obama got elected in office.
He's the most powerful black man since two thousand and nine.
You said you were sitting there watching the game in
(13:16):
your house, and what you did?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
You ran?
Speaker 12 (13:18):
You ran with the TV.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right, what was you doing?
Speaker 7 (13:21):
dB?
Speaker 12 (13:23):
You was chairing like when Shadua Sanders is on the field.
And when I say powerful, powerful, because it's two sides
of it, right, think about it. Okay, you got the
black community. He bringing the whole black community together. I
ain't ran across one black person that then said one
bad thing about should do it.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
We won't even.
Speaker 12 (13:44):
Guess what not one because he has the balance. He
has the balance of that. I'm arrogant, but I'm humble too,
and he having fun with it. And on top of that,
y'all want me to say it ain't y'all want me
to feel it ain't gonna happen. He's the most powerful
black man in sports, no other, no other matter of fact,
(14:05):
black man. He the most powerful player in sports.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I don't really know where to go with a lot
of that. I will say this I have. I mean,
half my team is is black. I have half my
staff as black, and and the general consensus from my
staff guys is they are big Shador and Dion fans,
(14:32):
Chad and Dion fans. He's not the most powerful guy
in sports. I do think that the black community by
and large embraces him and seems to have made this
into some sort of uh racial thing. Well it's it's
(14:54):
comedy because Dylan Gabriel is not white, you know. And
oh yeah, by the way, the guy who was the
starting quarterback before injury for the Cleveland Browns, who has
the largest guarantee in the history of the league, just
so happens to be black as well. That's the actual
(15:16):
starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns. So there's a lot
too it that has nothing to do with race, and
that Kendrick Perkins, maybe he's been hanging out with Ryan
Clark too much, is making it completely about race. But
I do think the black community has embraced him. I
don't think any of the other stuff is true or
factual or whatever. But I just again, this is why
(15:37):
it better work, because if it doesn't, nobody wants that
on their team. Nobody wants the idea of if you
don't play a guy, you're racist or you don't want
him to do well. And Shador is not helping it. Mike, Look,
you have to stop lying to yourself and lying to
(15:58):
the public. You do whether or not Shador has a
good repute, a good relationship with Kevin Stefanski or not.
The answer he gave is a telling answer, and it
is a terrible answer because it throws fuel to the fire.
It's very easy because his initial part of the answer
(16:20):
was great. The initial part of the answer was there's
lots of noise outside the building. I can't control that,
period stop fix it. Then the guy's like, no, but
what's your actual relationship? Like, well, he's like a coach
and it's gotten better, and he tells me what to do.
(16:42):
The only answer you need is, hey, people outside, they
don't know what's your relationship? Like great, awesome, he's been great.
I keep learning. I love his offense. I love it here.
I can't wait to get out there and show everybody
what we're putting in between last week and this week.
(17:02):
That's the answer. That's how you do it. And we
can sit there and go like, well, he's young, he
isn't bull bull because he could take coaching from his dad,
and his dad is not helping him. His dad is
hurting him because he just killed his coach once again
without trying, without openly trying to play that answer for
(17:26):
me one more time before bringing rich Hornberger, remember listen
to the entire because the first part is good. First
part is like, hey, I can't control everything else. But
then when they follow it up and ask what your
asking relationship is, that's when he stepped in it.
Speaker 9 (17:38):
All your supporters out, I'd dare say that that Kevin
Stefanski was sabotage.
Speaker 7 (17:45):
And so you just want to start troubling out.
Speaker 10 (17:48):
I know, I want to ask you what your relationship
with him?
Speaker 11 (17:52):
Yeah, well, what people do outside the building isn't really
in my control, is not in my power, So you
had like I go out there and tell him to
do it. You know, that's that's not nothing I could
control or nothing I could do. But overall, you know, I'm.
Speaker 7 (18:06):
Just happy to be here. Cose Stefanski.
Speaker 11 (18:07):
He's been coaching, uh since I got here, and uh,
he've been doing a very great job, you know with
everything that's going on.
Speaker 10 (18:14):
But what is your relationship like with him? And when
we don't see you guys together.
Speaker 11 (18:20):
Definitely like a coach, you know, he tells me what
I need to do on and off the field. We've
definitely grown our relationship and everything is grown. So I'm
just thankful to be here.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Yeah, he is, he says grown. He didn't say it
was good. He didn't say it was great. He made
it out like he'sssos do on and off the field.
It feels like he's like a parent. It's a bad answer.
It's bad as he was doing so well up into that,
but hey, he's been doing great with everything. What's your
(18:52):
relationship actually? Like it's like a coach, like a player.
Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. Let's welcome in
Rich Ornberger. He joins us now on Fox Sports Trade
He's got his own daily radio show in San Diego.
Plus's co host to Countdown to Kickoff with Jared Smith
Brian no airs each Sun eighteen nine am New Eastern Time.
Listen live on any of our Fox Sports Radio Philisy
(19:13):
iHeartRadio at presented by Bett MGM rich. What'd you think
of Shador Sanders's answer when he was asked about his
relationship with his coach.
Speaker 13 (19:23):
I didn't have an enormous problem with it, but I
do agree with you. There is an answer that is
going to lead to zero media questioning, zero criticism, and
then there's the answer that he gave. Look, everybody knows
the right answer. He grew up in a house with
(19:45):
a father who's a professional football player, former professional football
player turned coach. He has been media trained since he
was in high school. He knows exactly what he's doing
every step of the way. So trust me when I
tell you, and I don't need to tell you. But
he's not careless with his words. He knows what he's
(20:07):
doing and he knows what he's saying. When he says
it's a growing relationship instead of it's a great relationship,
he knows what he's inferring when he tells a reporter
who asks him about the relationship that he tells me
what to do on and off the field. He knows
that that is going to paint a portrayal of their
relationship in a certain light. That is going to lead
(20:29):
to some either condemnation from people around the Brown who,
you know, think that Shador is being strangle held by
this organization in some way, or it's going to be
you know, it's going to potentially lend credence to the
argument that he really needs to be reined in by
this organization. Whatever he knows, he's going to make a headline.
(20:53):
And so I completely agree with you that there is
a team friendly way to answer questions, and there is
the way he decided to answer the question, and he
knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Stut Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Okay, what
did you actually think of how he played?
Speaker 13 (21:13):
You know what, Look, he's got a lot to improve on,
but I can see the light.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
You know.
Speaker 13 (21:18):
I don't want to make the comparison because I don't
think it's apt. But if you looked at Josh Allen
when he came into the league, he was he was
an unfinished product. You know, he was an unfinished product,
and he was playing with the guy who I think
offensively really understood what he needed in Brian Gable, and
(21:38):
he developed over years. It literally took years into a
top tier caliber starting quarterback in the league. And then
you know, last year he won the MVP. So he's
continued to grow and he's continued to assert himself in
the correct directions. Now do I think that Cador Sanders
could ever play to the level of Josh Allen, I
(21:59):
don't know. I mean, it's so hard to get to
that top echelon, you know, where we're talking about maybe
the five greatest players playing in the NFL currently. It's
hard to get there, So will he I don't know.
But what I can tell you about the samples of
Shador Sanders that I'm watching is there times where he's
(22:20):
doing some really bone headed things with the football. There's
times where the scheme isn't helping him, and there's time
where I can see exactly the reason why you know,
he was considered a top tier talent leaving college and
then you know, fell down the draft board obviously for
you know, either exterior reasons or personality reasons or you know,
(22:41):
or potentially certain talent evaluators just didn't love the way
he played. But I can see the talent, So it's
a little bit of a mixed bag. It's still extremely
early to say for certain whether or not he's going
to be, you know, a Josh Allen or if he's
going to be you know, sort of an afterthought quarterback,
you know that ends up being a career backup.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Stuck Ottleep Show here on Fox Sports Radio. That's the
voice of Rich Ornberger. Course, Rich played in the league,
covers the league. You can listen to them here on
Fox Sports Radio Countdown to Kickoff every Sunday morning, which
is presented by Bett mgim. All right, let's get to
the teams that actually matter. That's my one thing about
the Browns, like, why are we talking about the teams
that don't matter? Game that matters? Packers and Lions. Packers
(23:27):
and Lions. Game wasn't truly competitive when it's playing Lambeau.
But that's first game of the season. New staff for
the Lions. This time around, Detroit's a three point favorite.
What do you think of Packers Lions Ford Field tomorrow
noon Central time?
Speaker 13 (23:46):
Man, I'll tell you what, it's really good to get
the Packers at home if you're the Lions, Because the Lions,
I think we were all expecting them to be a
more complete team than they have been so far today.
I think Jan Campbell has struggled in some ways calling
(24:09):
this offense, and then as a result of having Micah
Parsons that you have to plan your offense around when
you face the Green Bay Packers. That doesn't make life
any easier. I mean, he's a he's a great player,
and you know, you better get those tackles some help
he's got. He's got some really high level offensive lineman
(24:32):
on that on that team. But you either need to
get the ball out of Jared Goff's hands immediately, or
you need to get Penne Suole and Taylor Decker some help.
And and and that means chip help from the backs
and tight ends coming in there and bumping Michael Parsons
off this rush. And that means double teams fighting to
(24:52):
Micah Parson's way. And that also means getting Jamar Gibbs
or Jamir Gibbs involved in the passing games, you know,
I mean, even if even if you're only hitting two
yard passes or three yard passes, getting the ball into
hands of a playmaker beyond the line of scrimmage. If
he can make one man miss, we know he can
make the defense pay. And that is going to help
(25:15):
Jared Goff get rid of the football sooner, which I
think should be. It'll be mission critical in this game
against the Packers.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Caleb Williams, Now, I mean sixteen touchdowns, four interceptions. Everybody
has an opinion on a week to week basis, Give
me the thirty thousand foot view of the Bears of
Caleb Williams. As Friday they get the Eagles coming off
that loss to the Cowboys.
Speaker 13 (25:41):
Caleb Williams has improved a great deal with Ben Johnson
as his as his coach and you know, kind of
by proxy, his offensive coordinator. I'm not saying that I'm
I'm a believer in Kate Williams, and I think that
he is going to be, you know, the next Steve
Young or anything that resembles like a Patrick Mahomes for example.
(26:06):
But I've seen some upside here since getting a voice
in the headset. But really seems to understand how to
limit his liabilities and how to really focus on his strength.
And he's shown some improvisational skills at times this season
that really impressed me. Now, you know, do I think
(26:26):
that they're going to end up winning the NFC North,
the Bears led by Caleb Williams, I don't know. I
think that's a really competitive division, and I think a
lot can happen after Thanksgiving, So we'll see starting with
the Eagles here on Friday. But do I find myself
more and more pressed with Caleb Williams, Yeah, I do.
(26:50):
I think he had kind of a rough start. We
were just talking about Shrador. He kind of had a
rough entry into the NFL as well because of some
of the grumblings about how father was going to get
involved if the wrong team drafted him, and there was
some scuttle butt about whether or not he would even
play for the Bears, and you know, they end up
taking him, and you know, that storyline kind of goes away,
(27:12):
but the feeling I don't think ever did so I
think that stuck with him for the first full season.
I think here with a new head coach, he's looking
much more competent and so this could be a year
where they either sneak into the I would guess that
the Bears end up being a wildcard team. If I
were to put like my name on it right now,
(27:35):
I think the Bears don't end up winning the NFC North.
I do think they sneak into the postseason as a
wildcard team and then from there you roll the dice.
You know, who knows, maybe they can sneak off with
the first round win.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Stuck Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Trader, that's the
voice of Rich Ornberger. Rich nobody thought much, myself included
the Cowboys. Yet here they are at five hundred, fresh
off win over the Eagles and the Chiefs. Everybody just
assumes that figure it out, and they have, but they haven't.
That's a huge game for the Chiefs, and suddenly the
(28:07):
Cowboys seem competitive with it. Can they upset the Chiefs tomorrow?
Speaker 13 (28:12):
They can?
Speaker 2 (28:13):
They can?
Speaker 13 (28:16):
I think that if you believe all of the hype,
you assume like the Chiefs are are going to win
another Super Bowl or appear in another Super Bowl, and
the Dallas Cowboys are destined to be, you know, dog
meat of the NFC. But don't buy the hype. I mean,
just watch the games. The Cowboys have all pro talent
(28:39):
on that offense, The Cowboys have a defense that's really
struggled this year, but they've won some track meets and
they've made some plays when they've needed to defensively in
tight games. Now, in the NFL, it's very different from college.
You know, Look, you can have teams on your schedule
late in the season where you're gonna beat them by
(29:00):
forty points because you're thirty seven and a half point favorites.
You know, in the NFL, everybody can beat everybody. So
you can't convince me that this is just a rollover
game for the Chiefs, like they are going to just
you know, just because they're coming off a fresh window
going to ot with the Colts, and you know, and
and you know they're playing on a short week like that,
(29:22):
they will automatically lose. No, they're not going to roll
over for anybody. But I also don't consider them automatic
winners either because of where they've been and who they are,
they still got to play these games in Dallas Cowboys,
they're a formidable threat. And I think Dak Prescott is
playing some really good football and nobody seems to notice
(29:43):
because he's got just above a five hundred average or
five hundred record. With the five to five and one
record that the Cowboys are boasting right now.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Last thing
we started the show talk about Joe Burrow and how
now he's going to be this figure because he's playing
football when they have a very very very medusical chance
of making the playoffs and rich. It does strike me
as ironic that you're in my generation, like we're the
(30:13):
ones that kind of came up with the idea of
sitting guys. It might have been agents back in college football, right,
but sitting guys because well they didn't have much to
play for and load management in the NBA, and it
doesn't make sense. Nobody would thirty years ago, nobod would say, hey,
you shouldn't play because you're not in the playoffs. But
now it's very much part of the conversation. That conversation
(30:35):
has been started by our generation. But we're the same
generation that's critical of the guys now for missing games
when they're healthy enough to play. Where do you stand
on Joe Burrow becoming kind of a hero for yesterday
going like, look, I'm a football player. If I get hurt,
I'll rehab and I'll come back next year. It be fine, right.
Speaker 13 (30:56):
I love the attitude. I love the attitude, and you
know I agree with you. I think there are times
where a coach needs to come back and throttle back
a player, but that needs to be how it goes.
I don't think. I don't think it's a good message
to send when you're a team leader and one of
the best players not only on the field but on
(31:17):
the planet, and in a reckless game like football, you're
saying things like, hey, I got to really look out
for the future, not only mine, but the future of
this franchise because they're really gonna need and rely on
my talents next year. No, no, no, screw that. You
need to be the guy that's chomping out the bit
to get back on the field. And if anybody is
(31:39):
going to say anything about whether or not you should play,
it needs to be the voices in the room around you.
You know, it needs to be your head coach saying
absolutely not, under any circumstances are we sending you back
out there. You know it's still too early. You know,
you miss nine weeks of the season with turf tow
what's two more weeks, what's three more weeks, Like, if
(32:01):
you want to play when we're closer to the finish
line here, just to get a couple of games on
your belt, we could have that conversation, but we're not
rushing you back in a lost season yet, Like that's
the way this should have been. If it's going to
be messaged, it should be messaged. So I think Joe
Burrow is pitch perfect here. If the coach thinks it's
okay for you to play, if the trainers and the
(32:22):
doctors think it's okay for you to play, then you
better go play football. Because guess what, you are a
grown man playing a kid's dean for a king's ransom,
and it is the best job on earth. And Doug,
I know you welcome me on because I like to
talk and I like to talk to you, but also
because of my playing experience, and I can tell you
it is one of the most fun games and most
(32:43):
fun things you could do with your life playing in
that league. So if you got a quarterback who does
want to get off the field, you got the wrong quarterback.
So I think Joe Burrow is hitting all of the
right notes, not only with the fan base, but with
his teammates. And that's the reason why he's one of
the best doing it.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
That's the voice of Rich Orenberger, former offensive lineman, hosts
his own daily show in San Diego, and you can
also hear him count down to Kickoff with Jared Smith
and Brian know Airs each Saturday between nine am and
new Eastern time. Listen live on our Fox Sports tradi
affiliates on the iHeartRadio app presented by bet MGM. Rich.
Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 13 (33:18):
Yeah, Happy Thanksgiving? Doug anytime, happy to do it.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Mm hmmm, Sesame Street
help raise all of us. Now it's your turn donate
this holiday season at sesame dot or. Because the world
needs ses to me and says to me needs you.
Let's go to Isaac Lohncrawm with the game.
Speaker 8 (33:50):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It's the Doug gottlib Show, Fox Sports Radio. Ey sick
long Crow. What's the game today?
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Hey Doug.
Speaker 14 (34:01):
Before we get to the game, some rather interesting NFL
news just dropping The Detroit Lions just announced four time
Pro Bowl center Frank Ragnow is coming out of retirement.
Ragnow had retired in June after seven seasons in the NFL,
again a four time Pro Bowler, and now onto.
Speaker 8 (34:17):
The game for better or worse?
Speaker 14 (34:20):
Well timely? First topic for better or worse? The Packers
or the subject of this development moments ago? The Lions.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
The Lions better or worse than what Packers? Oh, Packers
are better. You don't go get Frank net raight Now
out of retirement unless there's something wrong at center. It
doesn't scream desperation. But I do think the Packers are
the better team.
Speaker 14 (34:46):
That's a good point. Perhaps it should have been Ragged
later instead of rag Now. All right, with that horrible
punt out of the way, for better or worse, two
more combatants tomorrow. The Cowboys are the Chiefs.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
I kind of think the Cowboys are better. I'm gonna
go Cowboys are better. Chiefs are worse because there's there's
a level of expectations on the Chiefs which normally resides
on the Cowboys.
Speaker 14 (35:11):
You know what, I'm with you one hundred percent on
there wouldn't have said it, you know, six weeks ago
or whatever and the final matchup of Thanksgiving. For better
or worse, the Ravens are the Steelers.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Oh, I think the Ravens are a lot better than
no Ravens playing the Bengals.
Speaker 14 (35:27):
Oh sorry, sorry, Ravens are the Steelers?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Sorry just.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
North in general?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yeah, Ravens our quarterback is better. I think the Steelers
defense is massively overrated.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
I like the Ravens, all right.
Speaker 8 (35:40):
Uh.
Speaker 14 (35:41):
I have to qualify this by saying I'm not the
one who suggested this next one, so please don't shoot
the messenger here. But for better or worse, Justin Allen
or Anthony Roy.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
So Anthony Roy was the nation's leading scorer. He played
for me last year. He broke his ankle ten games in.
Justin Allen average twenty six game in the D three level,
and he had twenty seven and twenty eight in his
last two games. I'm going with Justin Allen because he
plays for me. Now that that's my answer. Okay, Andon
(36:13):
Roy plays for a different school. There you got, I'm
taking my guy.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
All right.
Speaker 14 (36:18):
This is going to be a Thanksgiving related item here.
For better or worse, dark meat or white meat?
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Dark meat? Always always who eats. Who likes white meat?
White turkey meat? It's so dry?
Speaker 5 (36:36):
No, that isn't the white meat. Isn't it best? Because
you could best utilized gravy. Like the dark meat doesn't
need gravy, the white meat does, and it's a great combination.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I'm sure you're right. I don't like gravy, so I
like I think the dark meat works with the cranberry
and the stuffing or the dressing, whichever you do in
the sweet is all that. I think the dark meat
still works for it. But you're right. The white meat
is more absorbent, but it's absorbent for reason, and I
don't like gravy, and it's probably part of the reason
I don't like white meat.
Speaker 14 (37:08):
You cannot get this sort of Thanksgiving analysis anywhere else,
compared to this edition of For Better or Worse.
Speaker 12 (37:17):
Game.
Speaker 8 (37:18):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Actually, I think you can get it everywhere, but I
just don't know if people share their knowledge their thoughts,
because look, I could be wrong. Maybe I'm wrong about
all of this. It's a Doug Gotlieb show on Fox
Sports Radio. The Midway is next. It's a Thanksgiving theme Midway.
You'll like it on the Doug Gottlieb Show. You're on
Fox Sports Radio.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.