September 23, 2025 • 37 mins
Doug weighs in on the news that Oklahoma State fired long-time head coach Mike Gundy. Doug welcomes prolific podcaster John Middlekauff onto the show to talk about Mike Gundy, the Ravens and all of the other headlines around the NFL. Plus, Doug Beyer takes Doug through a game of "Rank 'Em".
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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follow twenty five bring the boom x Boom. Well, what
to talk about? What to talk about? Is it divisive
(00:47):
or divisive? Tomato tomato, potato potato. We'll get to that.
Oh yeah, by the way, Ravens lose again a game
in which the offense was real, then big fumble in
the fourth quarter and the offense goes. We'll get to
what that means for Lamar and for the Ravens or
(01:10):
maybe we should talk more about the Lions, who, after
a first week dud, have been outstanding against the Bears
and the Ravens in back to back weeks. However you
want to look at it. Plus major League Baseball coming
to an end here as we're getting close to the
wild card next week, maybe we'll pick Jay Stew's brain
on what he thinks of the Dodgers, the Brewers, the Cubs,
(01:31):
the Padres, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I
think this one's at my wheelhouse, right Like you guys
are all like this one. We kind of know what
I all. My buddy's like, what are you going to
talk about today? My Gundy for twenty one years was
the head coach at Oklahoma State. He's relieved of his
duties today. The winningest coach in the history of Oklahoma
State football. I'll I'll just give it to you straight.
(01:55):
I did not think he would be fired. And the
logic behind it is, as you heard from Dan Byer,
they owe him fifteen million on a buyout. They just
hired an entirely new staff, the two coordinators, one of
which Doug Meacham's now the interim head coach has a
three year, one one million dollar per year deal, so
(02:15):
they're still on the hook for the rest of this
season and then two more seasons. I think the total
is like fourteen to fifteen million, and then you're gonna
have to have a new team. Right, All these players
now have thirty days in which they could leave, and
you're like, well, school's already started. The schools on the
quarter system have not have not started yet, so I
don't think any of these guys are leaving now, but
(02:36):
they could, but they're gonna all be gone by the
end of the year, and you have a whole new
staff and a whole new team. And if this team
costs you, I was told thirteen million dollars, let's just
be conservative, fifteen fourteen, thirteen for just this head coach,
this staff, and this roster. Right, you're looking at forty
two ish million dollars, okay, and then you have to
(02:58):
go get a new team. This was thirteen stands a
reason fifteen to twenty next year if you actually want
to be competitive, and this coaching staff again, just even
in for a one year, you're like, your first year,
you're gonna have to pay at least five for a
head coach, and then probably somewhere in the neighborhood of
ten for assistant coaches. Right, so you're at fifteen plus twenty.
(03:21):
That's thirty five plus whatever forty two. That's a lot
of money. And despite the fact that you're told by
people who don't know anything about anything that there's ungodly
sum of money out there, there's not that much money
in oclanm State. Now. I have been told there are
some loopholes and some things like vet med sitting on
like thirty three hundred million that they think they can
(03:44):
use for this. Whatever. The point is, it's a lot
of money. It's a lot of money. Let me tell
you why. The timing of it and what they have
done is absolutely positively wrong, and it's wrong for a
myriad of reasons. The number one reason is, hey, I
thought we were different. You know, my brother, he's been
(04:07):
in coaching for a long time and he went to UCLA,
graduated from UCLA. In the middle he actually played basketball Drake,
which has become kind of a powerhouse in the Missouri
Valley in Des Moines, Iowa. And he told me a
long time ago an expression that I don't believe because
I have what I believe is a really good relationship
(04:27):
with Milma Mater, which is Hey, the second you care
too much about your own matter, just remember they don't
care about you. So Mike Gundy shouldn't have kept his
job because he's in Oklahoma state of lum. But what
exactly was accomplished today? Just think about this for a second. Okay,
(04:50):
and again, this is a topic I know a lot
about and some of you do because we're on in Oklahoma.
You know, people have listened to the show forever. Again,
last year, I thought he made the comments about his
running back who got a duy nothing I haven't done
a thousand times. You're like, what he got away with
saying things that no one else could won because he
(05:10):
was glib and that's just who he was, and he
worked out but two because they won. He did it,
did it for a long time. But it's wrong because
let's just take any coach, but especially one who is
in alum and has been successful for nineteen and a
half years. Right, last year this time Oklahoma State was
(05:31):
ranked fourteenth in the country. Last year this time Oklahoma
State was eight. So that is a precipitous decline. So
now either the old man stopped working. He's not really
that old, but he stopped working, or the game passed
him by, or maybe I don't know, maybe this is
just a whole new world again. I was against UCLA
(05:55):
firing Deshaun Foster, but Deshaun got a job that I
don't think anybody thought he had a chance for also
in lum But three games into his second year, what
are we doing. What's the purpose of being a coach
if you can't have problems and try and fix those problems.
What's the purpose having a contract if you can't let
somebody at least go through the second year of it.
(06:16):
Virginia Tech, it was his fourth year, was a weird tie.
They never got to go in. They're chasing the glory
of a program in the past when they were in
a different league, in a different time, in a different era,
and they're trying to get it back. I understand it's
hard a Virginia Tech, but none of neither of those
two were the winningest coaches at a place or had
(06:38):
just two years ago won ten games at a place
where they started by the way two years ago, losing
to South Alabama at home, which is as bad or
is worse loss than to Tulsa this past Friday. But
here's the point. At the end of last season, there
was a coup de'etas. There were people in the athletic
(06:58):
department more people that were donors, and I believe the governor,
Governor Stitt in Oklahoma, who wants to be the president
of Oklahoma State, tried to have a coup deta. They
wanted to fire Mike Gundy, and Mike Gundy had a
contract which was unfireable. So even as an alumna, a
friend of guandhy and and a fan of like, a
twenty five million dollar buyout on a rollover contract is ridiculous,
(07:22):
So they tried to come up with some kakamami plan
to fire him for cause if he wasn't willing to
change the terms of his contract and sign a new contract.
He acquiesced signed a new contract that now had a
fifteen million dollar buyout, and he acquiesced and wiped out
his staff people that he worked with for years, and
hired a whole new staff. Were three games in to
(07:44):
a new staff, three games in to a season. Two
and a half of those games they played without their
starting quarterback and broke his foot on the third series
of the season, the starting quarterback who came over with
the offensive coordinator. They copied the Oklahoma model. And you're
(08:06):
gonna fire You're winning his coach? Ever, why because he
might win games? Here's a news flash. I don't know
if anybody knows this. Even if Mike Gundy won every
game the rest of the season, if you want to
fire him, do you know how much it cost you
fifteen million dollars? If he loses every game the rest
of the season. Do you know much it cost you
(08:27):
fifteen million dollars? But you're supposed to do it the
right way. Was it embarrassing to lose to Tulsa? Yes? Yes, yes.
Last time they lost Tulsa was nineteen ninety eight. I know.
I was there. I was a student. We drove down
to Tulsa, watched football guys play. It was in the rain.
It was awful, and Tulsa was sort of decent then,
(08:48):
I think, and Oklahoma State was not. But it felt terrible.
Bad scheduling all around. Don't play the Oregon game. They're
on a completely different trajectory than you, and don't play Tulsa.
So because there's no win in playing Tulsa. The same
reason Wisconsin won't play US is because they beat us.
You're supposed to beat us. If you lose, it's the
end of the world. I get it. But three games
(09:13):
in to a twenty one year career, when you've done
nothing but win up until the last calendar year, you
fire a guy who just hired a new staff, has
sixty three new players. All that is is you have
people who think that the answer is always fire. Everybody,
(09:36):
start over, do it as quickly as possible. What change
for the program today? How do they put themselves on
some different trajectory? What change for this weekend? Is Baylor Kude. Nothing.
All you've done is say whatever hope there was of
having any sort of positive season, you've completely thrown out
the door. And oh yeah, by the way, like you're
(10:00):
my Gundy. He wasn't probably gonna go quietly, but you
very easily could have gone in at mid season be like, listen,
we got the money, we're gonna buy you out. We
want to do this the right way. Let's make this
the going away tour. But instead you just do it
to get splash. You do it in the middle of
the week. It's Tuesday. They play Saturday at home at home.
(10:24):
And I know who the people are who are making
these decisions. And again a lot of them have been, Hey,
I got this money, I want this coach, I want
that coach they did in basketball a couple of years ago.
So they're putting up their good, harder money because they're
all the honor and they want to buy a winner.
But nothing you have done today makes you closer to
(10:46):
being a winner, none, cause you're gonna have to start
from scratch next year, regardless, completely over, new staff, new program,
new everything. And again that's gonna take time. You think that,
I don't know that. I'm living it. So this is
not a coach to a coach defending a coach. I
(11:07):
said yesterday, I thought he actually should have got until
next year. What's the point of reworking his deal? What's
the point of saving yourself ten million dollars for three
games when you lose your starting quarterback three series in right,
And you can say, well, when you know, you know,
but you don't know. You have no idea what they have.
And yeah, they missed on some guys in the portal.
(11:29):
They weren't great. It's really really hard to have fifteen
or twenty practices and then go play, you know, a
football game. Kind of hard. So again, this is not
me saying you can't fire a coach. That's not me
saying you can't fire an alone you can. This is
not me saying you can't fire the winningest coach in
the history of Oklahoma State football. You absolutely positively have
(11:49):
the right to do so. But why now because idiots
on TV and on the internet think that you can
get John Gruden, which you can't, or think that this
doesn't puts you in pole position to go get a coach.
Doesn't change anything. You still have to go and evaluate
who you think and figure out what their plan is,
(12:11):
figure out how much money you have, what name is
going to generate you the most money for people who
donate money, so one you can continue to buy out process,
but also to raise money for new players. All of
these things they don't change. But Oklahoma State was supposed
to be different because he's one of us. It doesn't
(12:36):
buy you a lifetime appointment. It doesn't mean that you're
impervious to anything. It doesn't mean that you have to
stay there for years to come and fulfill the entirety
of your contract. Doesn't mean that, but it's supposed to
mean something. Twenty one years of excellence is supposed to
mean something, and it doesn't. And that's where we are
in college sports, not everywhere. But it sucks that it's
(12:59):
my alma mater that was supposed to be a different place,
that was supposed to be a place where, hey, cowboys
hire cowboys and we take care of cowboys. And look
they had they hired, you know, the longtime legendary wrestling
coach John Smith retired a year and a half ago.
(13:21):
They hired David Taylor wrestling coach. He's a Penn State guy.
He's been unbelievable and I'm sure that there's a lot
of people around still Water they're like, hey, we don't
have to hire Oaklham State guys. David Taylor's not He's awesome.
It's a great hire. He's been spectacular. But did you
do that three matches into the season? Three games into
(13:45):
the season. And this just reiterates something that I've often believed.
I tell people all the time, you don't go shop hungry, right,
you don't go shop hungry? Why don't you go shop
hungry because you'll go buy stuff that you didn't actually
want like that sounds good, that sounds good. That sounds good,
that sounds good. You come home and your wife your
(14:06):
girlfriends like what you get. I was like, well, you know,
I got orchotta because that sounds good. And then I
got steak because that sounds good. And then I got chicken,
and then I got sushi, and then I got there Like, whoa,
all this is fresh, It's all gonna go bad. Why
do I let you go shopping when you're hungry? But
you don't make decisions when you're embarrassed. Catch your breath,
(14:28):
find your balance, make the smart decision. This is not
one of them, because, however bitter my Gundy may have been,
when ultimately you let him go. Now okay, now, I
mean you lost a huge chunk of your university in
(14:48):
your football family, because you're very likely to hire somebody
outside of the football family is going to do things new.
And now all those people used to come around for
all the games because they played for one coach for
twenty years. And now it's not just that he's gone,
is that he's really bitter about it, and you embarrassed
him by firing him three games in with a whole
new team and a whole new coaching staff. What's the
(15:11):
hurt and waiting? He might win more games? Okay, you
can still fire him. You're still allowed.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
To be Sure to catch the live edition of The
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Speaker 1 (15:28):
It this Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Hey, make
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(15:48):
and how Dan Byer always has good hair. All these things.
These are appropriate comments. Go check out a brand new
YouTube channel again, subscribe to it Doug Gottlieb Show, Doug
Gottlieb Show. Byer, What do you think You're always a
neutral bystander. You're also a huge college football fan. You know,
(16:13):
I process emotions, and I'm not going to say Mike
Gundy and I are besties. He usually comes on once
a year when I'm personally super nice to me. But
We're not like constantly changing text messages, Christmas cards, whatever.
I just I've never understood this. I got to fire
a guy right now because I'm mad because we lost
(16:33):
a game that I didn't think we should lose or
not as good as we're supposed to be. Instead of
going like, okay, like what's the right thing to do
by all people, this is not It's that's my take.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I agree, And I think that even from whether it
be from you know, five feet away or five hundred
miles away, it is a bad move because I think
that the outside perspective of Oklahoma State is twofold. So
you see Gundhy being fired. They're four year start quarterback.
You mentioned all time winning as coach, and it's not
(17:03):
even close. I mean in being their twenty years, one
hundred and seventy wins. Second place is sixty two. So
if there's anybody that's Oklahoma State, it's Mike Gundy. And
if you're a coach and you go there and you say, well,
if I don't get things going, what are they going
to do to me? So that turns I think could
turn candidates off at one point. The other point is
(17:24):
I think from a national perspective is for the coaches
that we know and that stand out at Oklahoma State
outside of Mike Gundy, there's two of them, Jimmy Johnson
and Les Miles, and those coaches used Oklahoma State as
a stepping stone, springboard gap. Yeah. It was not Mike.
That was not Mike Gundy's deal. This was his destination.
(17:46):
This was his destiny. If you will, so to move
off of Gundy in this fashion, the next coach you're
going to get is probably going to use you as
a springboard. As you say, I stay say stepping stone
and that that's what I think is lost on it
from the outside looking in. It's to be careful what
you wish for. Thing with Oklahoma State.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah yeah, and listen, and it's a lesson. I also
think there's an expression in coaching. I don't know if
you guys ever heard this. Every year you coach somewhere,
you make an enemy, right, and you coach somewhere long
enough twenty one years, you make twenty one enemies. Eventually
they'll get you. Now, look, if he's winning games, you
go back to last year, this time the beat Arkansas,
they're undefeated, the ranked fourteenth in the country, there were
(18:32):
those enemies were silent, were silent, but you start losing
and they get loud, They get really loud. Ken I
continue to reiterate as my Gundy that Oklahoma state head
coach has lost its job today. Was fired was? It
ain't about hiring firing a head coach. It's about doing
things the right way. And then you compound it by
the fact that he's an alum. He was a great
(18:54):
quarterback in one of the few great eras in Oklahoma
state history, and he had been successful for nineteen consecutive years.
After his first year, by the way, when he took
over the job from Less Miles, he ran like nine
guys off because he wanted quality, character guys right, So
he kind of sacrificed his first year to build it.
(19:15):
But he thought was the right way. And again, it's
not about firing a coach, it's about why are we
firing him three games in the season. Let's ask John Middlecoffee.
He joins us now on the Doug Gotlieb Show on
Fox Sports, Rady, we whant to get to NFL football
Ravens defense. What's going on? Why they keep coming up
short in the fourth quarter and second But first just
your reaction. My Gundy out of a job again from
(19:37):
fifteen hundred miles away. How's that feel?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, I'd say you could kind of see the writing
on the wall obviously last year going three and nine.
You know, I always struggle, like you said, three games in,
just get the divorce last offseason, right, why even do this?
And I know it's difficult because like you said, alumni,
you know, I think sometimes I think you're seeing it.
It's a little bit different because they just made the
playoffs last year, But it's hard to be in a
(20:00):
place this long in the Internet era, with the negativity
that surrounds programs, and I think you're seeing it with Dabo,
and I wonder, you know there was a loyalty and
I think clearly there's a loyalty with Dabbo and Clemson,
But like if I could recommend eathing to Dabbo, I'd
be like, Hey, you got this negativity, got people already
kind of coming for you if you get the opportunity
(20:22):
to take the forward a job, like sometimes in your profession,
you just need to reset. And a couple of years ago,
you know, Dundee and it was a tough decision turned
down Tennessee. Right who and you know, this.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Way back I guarantee that's what he's seeing today should
have taken.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Tennessee well like in this era with t Moon gone. Yeah, right,
can you imagine Oklahoma State in twenty thirteen in this era, right,
they would have been much they would have been like
Texas Tech. But nowadays it doesn't feel like they regress
in terms of that. So it's like, is it My
first thought that yeah, is it a good job? Because
(21:00):
my first thought was no.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I honestly think you just hit a home run. John,
I had my brother told me that the same thing.
He's like, you know, the guy at Kansas State was
a great coach in FBS and he did a great
job his first couple of years. You know, Dabo Sweeney
was an unbelievable coach at Clemson and Mike Gundhy, now, right,
is unbelievable job. What happened to what happened? How did
(21:25):
Texas Tech suddenly become the best team in the Big
twelve because they got a billionaire funding it? It's really
not that hard. It's not that hard, you know, and
it takes you, and it takes you a couple of
years to kind of figure it out the portal and
all that other stuff. And this is their first year
going on in the portal. Right, so it's you have
more money than other people, you're gonna put a better
(21:46):
team out there.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
And every perfect last week text the Tech against Utah
these you know, they got first rounds of offensive line
texta deck. Even their best team offense couldn't stop the soul.
Well because they could never ever get a recruit to
come there. They didn't even waste time talking to them
because they nowadays like, you want NFL recruits, Well, this
(22:08):
is what we're offering. Boom will offer you more you
come here. And Texas Tech got good and obviously I
think Joey maguire is pretty good too. Yeah, but it
would not be good if Brushon wasn't good, if you
gave Oklahoma States. So it's this is this is a
money game. It's kind of become. You know, college basketball
was like this because the shoe contracts stuff pre nil,
(22:29):
but now football is basically the same thing that if
you don't have the elite money, you got no.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Shots, correct, correct, You gotta get really really lucky and
then you got a fin out. How you gotta stay healthy. Right.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Do you think he retired Mike, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Might do TV. It's got a lot of money, kids
are out of the house, got a gigantic house to
sell it on? How that sell? It's been on the
market for over a year. I don't know. Is that
part of me the things she goes does again? Maybe?
But he had a lot of money and he's got
I think he's actually got a cement business. I don't know.
He's different, dude.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
I got a question for you then.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean I heard he's got to be on TV.
How good would be on TV?
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Oh, well, he's hiring yesterday or Fox. I mean, he'll
be fine. Why would his house be for sale? Is
this something he sees coming? Then?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Uh no? His kids raw out of the house. It's
a huge house with like a menagerie of animals and stuff.
I just think it was a lot to maintain, to
be honest with you, they all have these gigantic houses
when they have their kids and they have everybody over whatever,
and then I think their wives are like, dude, this
is stupid, Like I don't I don't want this house.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Wait. Our landscaping bill is eight thousand dollars what do
we do?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah? What are we? What are we actually doing? John
Middlcoff's our guest here on the Doug Gottlib Show. Enough College. Okay,
so there's a bunch of things last night with the
Lions beating the Ravens. The first thing is, was Derrick
Henry fumble prone?
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Before I thought that yesterday he had three total fumbles
in all of twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four,
it was like almost six hundred and fifty carries and
he has three this year and whatever fifty carries. So
the answer is no. And clearly, you know it's one
of those things. You know, you could say one individual fumble,
even if it's you know, bad ball security is a
(24:18):
freak play. Once this happened a couple of times. Clearly
it's in his head and got he got lucky when
he slammed his helmet on kind of that plastic bench
that during the winter gives heat. He didn't have a
horrific fall. I mean, he got luck. You gotta fell
on that bench. But clearly he's he's pretty worked up
over it, and let's face the heat. You know, they
(24:39):
kind of corralled him. You remove the one twenty eight
yard run. He had twenty two yards in all of
his other carries. So if you corral a guy like
him to ten or eleven carries for twenty yards, you're doing
a pretty good job. And after that big run, he
did nothing. The other thing with him, obviously the Hall
of Fame guy, he's actually more potent from like the
(24:59):
forty yard line. Did he have the goal line? Because
he's so easy to tackle, you know, in a short
yard of situation. You saw yesterday a couple of times
he got cut off immediately where in the open field,
he's not the most elusive guy, but he has great
feet and he gets you angled with a speed. But
he's not a great goal line back like you know
(25:19):
Montgomery would be because of size and leverage.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Did you see Lamar get tackled when he tried to
shake the linebacker from the Lions? And I was like, yeah,
I don't know if I've ever seen that happen before.
Right where it is like, wait, has Lamar Jackson become
a human being because he was a superhero before today?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
You know what happens? And I think it happens in
basketball sometimes, especially in college when you like run and
he used to happen for everyone. The zone defense, he
like would really throw people off. He's not used to
these guys not springing up the field. They would all
take a couple of steps and like five of them
would have be in different spots where he scrambled around.
If the guy wasn't open immediately, they would be a
(26:00):
couple of yards away from Usually these defensive linemen and
it happens to Kyler, Murray, Josh Allen. This the natural
pass rush fly up the field. Well, these guys are
so athletic, and especially if you're in man defense, all
your defensive backs are looking at the wide receivers and
he can just take off for ten, fifteen, twenty yards.
Last night they were just stopping and clearly they have
(26:21):
athletic defensive lineman, but definitely have athletic linebackers that I
think there was just a guy every four or five
yards and you got to get the line of credit.
They tackled well in space, and they got him a
lot in his legs. Sometimes those guys die for Lamar
and they missed. It felt like every time they died
and got his ankles, like he was going down. I'm
with Dad, I've never seen that. I don't think it's
(26:42):
going to be a theme, but I would imagine Spagnola
this week, in the best one to two matchup you'll
ever see, is going to try to do that because
they slowed him down before and all of a sudden,
we could be looking up and the Ravens are one
and three. But here's the thing. Does the missing Madibuke
who's an unreal d tackle and van Noy who they
(27:04):
hired off basically McAfee show who turned back into a
pro bowler. Those two guys missing the Ravens looked unraven like,
and Dan Campbell and that unit they leaned on them
all night long and kind of embarrassed them that you
rarely see the Ravens get shut like. Offensively, they have
them off games. They still stored I mean a lucky
thirty points, but they were in the mid twenties right
(27:26):
even without the last touchdowns. But the defense just I mean,
you could remove the seventy yard run and they got
one hundred and fifty yards and ran on them when
you know the runs are coming. So that's I think
the Ravens defensively they started slow last year too, but
losing these two front guys has a huge impact on
their physicality.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Russell Wilson is no longer the starting quarterback of the
New York Giants, right, Yeah, And I know we can
talk about Jackson Dart in our expectations of Jackson Dart,
but I want to take it just a second. That's
the last he'll be a starting quote, right, he may
start a game at some point in time the season,
maybe not, but like that's it, right, I mean, this
is what four teams in six years, and yeah, I
(28:12):
just this, this was he he couldn't do it with
the Steelers didn't want him, Giants don't want him, Broncos
didn't want him, Seahawks were done with him. Like this
is a weird end to a Hall of Fame caliber
career where if he comes back, he'll have to be
a backup that could occasionally spot start and you know,
hope somebody you know, or do the Flaco maybe maybe
(28:34):
you get you know, a team on a down year,
but otherwise, like if he chooses to stay in the game,
he probably goes to TV. He's gonna be a backup, correct.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, I mean I would say he wouldn't be even
backup caliber because he's so famous, and he got to
that kind of tipping point where he's almost too big
of a star to be a backup quarterback. It does
feel like it's quieted a little bit. You know, it's
been pretty seamless. Now. Last year he went the reverse right,
he was injured and didn't start early and then started
(29:04):
at the end, and then it kind of got weird
at the end. But this year we'll see how he
handles this situation, because there's still a point that if
it gets weird, if some stuff gets leaked, you could argue,
if he's not gonna your starting quarterback, he's then untouchable.
It's just not worth it. Now if I say that,
I would have said that about Carson Wentz and looking
at him six fra eight years starting for six different teams,
so you never know. But obviously Russell's way more famous
(29:29):
than Carson Wentz, so yeah, I would tend to lean
not only did he started career is definitely over right.
I think in his spot, like who is you know
who wants them right? Would you want him around your
young quarterback? I don't know. Typically teams like like case Keenum,
you know, they like their backup to actually be not
(29:51):
very famous right used to that role and then who
you know, like a Josh Allen Patrick mahomes Like, I
don't think you do that either, Like where does he
where does he fit in the hierarchy of the way
the league works. We have a lot of veteran quarterbacks
now would start and then that group of young guys,
which I don't really know if he fits in that loop.
So you could argue it could just be this off season.
(30:13):
Would you be stunned if we're going like midway through
training camp and he doesn't have a home.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
No, I think I think he does TV, that's my guess.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
But he's terrible. Well he doesn't say anything.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I yeah, I know he's awful. Jay stew I don't
know if that was on air. In my ear's awful. Yeah,
there's lots of guys on TV that are awful. Won
a super Bowl. It's good looking guy. Why he's famous? Okay,
there's all these networks they're hiring a lot of people.
We if we if we want to play the game
of who's really good, there's plenty of guys that say
nothing that are on TV. Because he's a Hall of
Fame quarterback, Yeah, you just.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Throw him on a studio show. He's famous.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, yeah, sure, and he can say he can say
smart things. He just never he's just tried to always, always,
you know, playkate people with his opinions. So that's fine.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
You know, there's someone hit me up and they're like,
you know, we have this debate a lot, right, It's
Stafford a Hall of Famer, and you go back and forth.
And I like my hall of Fame to be like
pretty elite group of guys, likes the Mannings, the Brady.
But let's just say, like obviously, once we start talking
about the next tier of guys, Russell Wilson's a way
more accomplished player over the course of his career in
(31:19):
terms of Pro Bowls, in terms of just winning than
Stafford was. And I think, you know, these debates because
if you just have most people that think of the
end of his career is so bad. People forget how
awesome he was in his prime and he was a
pretty special player there for like five six years. But
the ending is, man, I mean, you talked about him
(31:41):
sip of his drop off. It's it's pretty ugly ending.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, we started with an ugly ending, we end with
an ugly ending. But he's not an ugly ending. He's
John Middlcoff. The volume is where you can find his
three and out podcast. You're the Best, Johnny. Thanks for
joining us. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
If you miss any today's show, checked out the podcast
to search Doug Gotleiber your podcast right after the show.
Today's podcast to be posted rated five stars. You can
even provide a review. Again. Just search Doug Gottlieb. Wherever
you get your podcast. You'll find the full show, the
best of version, and the end the bonus podcast, which
gets live as soon as this show concludes. Let's get
to Dan Byron, get to a game.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show. All right, Doug,
the game today is rank them. Okay, we're gonna look
at both ends of this spectrum. Starting out, Doug ranked
the top three teams in the NFL through three weeks.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Number three the LA Chargers Okay, love my Lightning Bolts
three and zero in their division as well. They mentioned
three oh in their division. I think I did number
the Buffalo Bills, the Buffalo Bills and number one phill Eagles.
(33:08):
All right, doesn't have to be pretty. They got three wins,
no losses, huge win over the Rams, gigantic winning Kansas
City over the Chiefs, and an opening game win as
well in uh, where do they play that game? That's
that wasn't of that Cowboys? Where they played?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
That was in Philly? That's right? Okay, So three, No,
I'm gonna go keep Phillies Eagles one.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
All right, Doug Rangy Three worst teams in the NFL
through three weeks.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Wow, Now that's a that's a fun discussion. That's a
fun discussion. Number one is the Saints. Let's work backwards, right,
the Saints they stink. Stinks that now it's getting competitive, right.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
A lot of good nominees here.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
There there are. You got the g Men, The g
men is one, Dolphins, the Titans, the Texans stink. I
mean what the precipitous decline of the Texans after two
years ago, new coach, new quarterback and got into the
playoffs and looking good in the playoffs. Hmm, I'm gonna
go Dolphins at two. Second worst team, okay, And I'll
(34:20):
say Giants at three, Giants at three.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
All right, Doug, speaking of the Giants, rank the three
quarterbacks on their current roster, Russell Wilson, Jamis Winston, and
Jackson Dart.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I'll go Jamis Winston, Jackson Dart, and Russell Wilson. I'm
a big Jamis guy. Plus, I just how can we
not get him eating the doves one one more time?
You get him eating the dubs?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I agree. Again, we talked about this yesterday, but I
was hearing the news today surprised that Winston maybe wasn't
named the starter and they just made Wilson inactive.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Or that's the way to save your job, way to
save your job, you know, because then if you lose,
you're like, well, you know he got a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Yeah. Ranked the top three Mike Gundy memories, Oh from
his home state.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
I mean number one has to be I'm a man,
Come after Me, which, by the way, was his highest
rated quarterback recruit ever. Couldn't play. It's funny about that, right,
Like his best quarterback ever showed up as a walk on. Actually,
both of his second best quarterback ever was a baseball player.
(35:32):
Another one is the offensive coordinate with the Falcons. People
want to see him and he was a wide receiver,
so they've kind of had some weird luck there for me,
that's what.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
That's what Wait wait wait, where's it was? Where's Brandon
Whedon on there?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Whedon was the guy who's the base gotcha?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Who is also what like twenty six when he was
like the starting quarterback.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
But he literally like walked in, was like, hey, I
want play football here, Like hey, he was there a
couple of years. But uh, anyway, by.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
The way, bet online is Zach Robinson four to one.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Zero is my guy. He's awesome. You know his mom
was a palm I think not sure they're palm at
Okaha State. The only reason he went there, he went
there's a wide receiver and then he was quarterback. He's
pretty good. And then when he got hurt the Colorado game,
that's when Whedon came in and they're like, hey, this
guy can actually play anyway. Number two number two is uh.
I think they got a logo we got one too,
(36:25):
or they got a brand. We have one right because
they they beat Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl. Okay,
and then the number three would be last time they
played Oklahoma they beat Oklahoma, and that was the night
of the day. My daughter committed to go to Oklahma
State and she called us from the called us from
the field when they're taking down the goalpost. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
The all time leading passer and Big Eight history Mike
Gundy Sun Boys Nights.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah pretty good, right, Yeah, he had pretty good backfield
there with Thrman Thomas Yeah, and Barry Sanders.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Helps. That's game time, that game.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Okay, come next to the Doug Gottlieb Show. Things we
missed get into regards the NFL. It's called Tuesday Morning Quarterback.
It's only right here, it's only next. It's only on
the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Be
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(00:23):
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follow twenty five bring the boom x Boom. Well, what
to talk about? What to talk about? Is it divisive
(00:47):
or divisive? Tomato tomato, potato potato. We'll get to that.
Oh yeah, by the way, Ravens lose again a game
in which the offense was real, then big fumble in
the fourth quarter and the offense goes. We'll get to
what that means for Lamar and for the Ravens or
(01:10):
maybe we should talk more about the Lions, who, after
a first week dud, have been outstanding against the Bears
and the Ravens in back to back weeks. However you
want to look at it. Plus major League Baseball coming
to an end here as we're getting close to the
wild card next week, maybe we'll pick Jay Stew's brain
on what he thinks of the Dodgers, the Brewers, the Cubs,
(01:31):
the Padres, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I
think this one's at my wheelhouse, right Like you guys
are all like this one. We kind of know what
I all. My buddy's like, what are you going to
talk about today? My Gundy for twenty one years was
the head coach at Oklahoma State. He's relieved of his
duties today. The winningest coach in the history of Oklahoma
State football. I'll I'll just give it to you straight.
(01:55):
I did not think he would be fired. And the
logic behind it is, as you heard from Dan Byer,
they owe him fifteen million on a buyout. They just
hired an entirely new staff, the two coordinators, one of
which Doug Meacham's now the interim head coach has a
three year, one one million dollar per year deal, so
(02:15):
they're still on the hook for the rest of this
season and then two more seasons. I think the total
is like fourteen to fifteen million, and then you're gonna
have to have a new team. Right, All these players
now have thirty days in which they could leave, and
you're like, well, school's already started. The schools on the
quarter system have not have not started yet, so I
don't think any of these guys are leaving now, but
(02:36):
they could, but they're gonna all be gone by the
end of the year, and you have a whole new
staff and a whole new team. And if this team
costs you, I was told thirteen million dollars, let's just
be conservative, fifteen fourteen, thirteen for just this head coach,
this staff, and this roster. Right, you're looking at forty
two ish million dollars, okay, and then you have to
(02:58):
go get a new team. This was thirteen stands a
reason fifteen to twenty next year if you actually want
to be competitive, and this coaching staff again, just even
in for a one year, you're like, your first year,
you're gonna have to pay at least five for a
head coach, and then probably somewhere in the neighborhood of
ten for assistant coaches. Right, so you're at fifteen plus twenty.
(03:21):
That's thirty five plus whatever forty two. That's a lot
of money. And despite the fact that you're told by
people who don't know anything about anything that there's ungodly
sum of money out there, there's not that much money
in oclanm State. Now. I have been told there are
some loopholes and some things like vet med sitting on
like thirty three hundred million that they think they can
(03:44):
use for this. Whatever. The point is, it's a lot
of money. It's a lot of money. Let me tell
you why. The timing of it and what they have
done is absolutely positively wrong, and it's wrong for a
myriad of reasons. The number one reason is, hey, I
thought we were different. You know, my brother, he's been
(04:07):
in coaching for a long time and he went to UCLA,
graduated from UCLA. In the middle he actually played basketball Drake,
which has become kind of a powerhouse in the Missouri
Valley in Des Moines, Iowa. And he told me a
long time ago an expression that I don't believe because
I have what I believe is a really good relationship
(04:27):
with Milma Mater, which is Hey, the second you care
too much about your own matter, just remember they don't
care about you. So Mike Gundy shouldn't have kept his
job because he's in Oklahoma state of lum. But what
exactly was accomplished today? Just think about this for a second. Okay,
(04:50):
and again, this is a topic I know a lot
about and some of you do because we're on in Oklahoma.
You know, people have listened to the show forever. Again,
last year, I thought he made the comments about his
running back who got a duy nothing I haven't done
a thousand times. You're like, what he got away with
saying things that no one else could won because he
(05:10):
was glib and that's just who he was, and he
worked out but two because they won. He did it,
did it for a long time. But it's wrong because
let's just take any coach, but especially one who is
in alum and has been successful for nineteen and a
half years. Right, last year this time Oklahoma State was
(05:31):
ranked fourteenth in the country. Last year this time Oklahoma
State was eight. So that is a precipitous decline. So
now either the old man stopped working. He's not really
that old, but he stopped working, or the game passed
him by, or maybe I don't know, maybe this is
just a whole new world again. I was against UCLA
(05:55):
firing Deshaun Foster, but Deshaun got a job that I
don't think anybody thought he had a chance for also
in lum But three games into his second year, what
are we doing. What's the purpose of being a coach
if you can't have problems and try and fix those problems.
What's the purpose having a contract if you can't let
somebody at least go through the second year of it.
(06:16):
Virginia Tech, it was his fourth year, was a weird tie.
They never got to go in. They're chasing the glory
of a program in the past when they were in
a different league, in a different time, in a different era,
and they're trying to get it back. I understand it's
hard a Virginia Tech, but none of neither of those
two were the winningest coaches at a place or had
(06:38):
just two years ago won ten games at a place
where they started by the way two years ago, losing
to South Alabama at home, which is as bad or
is worse loss than to Tulsa this past Friday. But
here's the point. At the end of last season, there
was a coup de'etas. There were people in the athletic
(06:58):
department more people that were donors, and I believe the governor,
Governor Stitt in Oklahoma, who wants to be the president
of Oklahoma State, tried to have a coup deta. They
wanted to fire Mike Gundy, and Mike Gundy had a
contract which was unfireable. So even as an alumna, a
friend of guandhy and and a fan of like, a
twenty five million dollar buyout on a rollover contract is ridiculous,
(07:22):
So they tried to come up with some kakamami plan
to fire him for cause if he wasn't willing to
change the terms of his contract and sign a new contract.
He acquiesced signed a new contract that now had a
fifteen million dollar buyout, and he acquiesced and wiped out
his staff people that he worked with for years, and
hired a whole new staff. Were three games in to
(07:44):
a new staff, three games in to a season. Two
and a half of those games they played without their
starting quarterback and broke his foot on the third series
of the season, the starting quarterback who came over with
the offensive coordinator. They copied the Oklahoma model. And you're
(08:06):
gonna fire You're winning his coach? Ever, why because he
might win games? Here's a news flash. I don't know
if anybody knows this. Even if Mike Gundy won every
game the rest of the season, if you want to
fire him, do you know how much it cost you
fifteen million dollars? If he loses every game the rest
of the season. Do you know much it cost you
(08:27):
fifteen million dollars? But you're supposed to do it the
right way. Was it embarrassing to lose to Tulsa? Yes? Yes, yes.
Last time they lost Tulsa was nineteen ninety eight. I know.
I was there. I was a student. We drove down
to Tulsa, watched football guys play. It was in the rain.
It was awful, and Tulsa was sort of decent then,
(08:48):
I think, and Oklahoma State was not. But it felt terrible.
Bad scheduling all around. Don't play the Oregon game. They're
on a completely different trajectory than you, and don't play Tulsa.
So because there's no win in playing Tulsa. The same
reason Wisconsin won't play US is because they beat us.
You're supposed to beat us. If you lose, it's the
end of the world. I get it. But three games
(09:13):
in to a twenty one year career, when you've done
nothing but win up until the last calendar year, you
fire a guy who just hired a new staff, has
sixty three new players. All that is is you have
people who think that the answer is always fire. Everybody,
(09:36):
start over, do it as quickly as possible. What change
for the program today? How do they put themselves on
some different trajectory? What change for this weekend? Is Baylor Kude. Nothing.
All you've done is say whatever hope there was of
having any sort of positive season, you've completely thrown out
the door. And oh yeah, by the way, like you're
(10:00):
my Gundy. He wasn't probably gonna go quietly, but you
very easily could have gone in at mid season be like, listen,
we got the money, we're gonna buy you out. We
want to do this the right way. Let's make this
the going away tour. But instead you just do it
to get splash. You do it in the middle of
the week. It's Tuesday. They play Saturday at home at home.
(10:24):
And I know who the people are who are making
these decisions. And again a lot of them have been, Hey,
I got this money, I want this coach, I want
that coach they did in basketball a couple of years ago.
So they're putting up their good, harder money because they're
all the honor and they want to buy a winner.
But nothing you have done today makes you closer to
(10:46):
being a winner, none, cause you're gonna have to start
from scratch next year, regardless, completely over, new staff, new program,
new everything. And again that's gonna take time. You think that,
I don't know that. I'm living it. So this is
not a coach to a coach defending a coach. I
(11:07):
said yesterday, I thought he actually should have got until
next year. What's the point of reworking his deal? What's
the point of saving yourself ten million dollars for three
games when you lose your starting quarterback three series in right,
And you can say, well, when you know, you know,
but you don't know. You have no idea what they have.
And yeah, they missed on some guys in the portal.
(11:29):
They weren't great. It's really really hard to have fifteen
or twenty practices and then go play, you know, a
football game. Kind of hard. So again, this is not
me saying you can't fire a coach. That's not me
saying you can't fire an alone you can. This is
not me saying you can't fire the winningest coach in
the history of Oklahoma State football. You absolutely positively have
(11:49):
the right to do so. But why now because idiots
on TV and on the internet think that you can
get John Gruden, which you can't, or think that this
doesn't puts you in pole position to go get a coach.
Doesn't change anything. You still have to go and evaluate
who you think and figure out what their plan is,
(12:11):
figure out how much money you have, what name is
going to generate you the most money for people who
donate money, so one you can continue to buy out process,
but also to raise money for new players. All of
these things they don't change. But Oklahoma State was supposed
to be different because he's one of us. It doesn't
(12:36):
buy you a lifetime appointment. It doesn't mean that you're
impervious to anything. It doesn't mean that you have to
stay there for years to come and fulfill the entirety
of your contract. Doesn't mean that, but it's supposed to
mean something. Twenty one years of excellence is supposed to
mean something, and it doesn't. And that's where we are
in college sports, not everywhere. But it sucks that it's
(12:59):
my alma mater that was supposed to be a different place,
that was supposed to be a place where, hey, cowboys
hire cowboys and we take care of cowboys. And look
they had they hired, you know, the longtime legendary wrestling
coach John Smith retired a year and a half ago.
(13:21):
They hired David Taylor wrestling coach. He's a Penn State guy.
He's been unbelievable and I'm sure that there's a lot
of people around still Water they're like, hey, we don't
have to hire Oaklham State guys. David Taylor's not He's awesome.
It's a great hire. He's been spectacular. But did you
do that three matches into the season? Three games into
(13:45):
the season. And this just reiterates something that I've often believed.
I tell people all the time, you don't go shop hungry, right,
you don't go shop hungry? Why don't you go shop
hungry because you'll go buy stuff that you didn't actually
want like that sounds good, that sounds good. That sounds good,
that sounds good. You come home and your wife your
(14:06):
girlfriends like what you get. I was like, well, you know,
I got orchotta because that sounds good. And then I
got steak because that sounds good. And then I got chicken,
and then I got sushi, and then I got there Like, whoa,
all this is fresh, It's all gonna go bad. Why
do I let you go shopping when you're hungry? But
you don't make decisions when you're embarrassed. Catch your breath,
(14:28):
find your balance, make the smart decision. This is not
one of them, because, however bitter my Gundy may have been,
when ultimately you let him go. Now okay, now, I
mean you lost a huge chunk of your university in
(14:48):
your football family, because you're very likely to hire somebody
outside of the football family is going to do things new.
And now all those people used to come around for
all the games because they played for one coach for
twenty years. And now it's not just that he's gone,
is that he's really bitter about it, and you embarrassed
him by firing him three games in with a whole
new team and a whole new coaching staff. What's the
(15:11):
hurt and waiting? He might win more games? Okay, you
can still fire him. You're still allowed.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
To be Sure to catch the live edition of The
Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
It this Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Hey, make
sure you check out our new YouTube channel. Go to
YouTube dot com slash at Doug Gottlieb Show. If you're
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(15:48):
and how Dan Byer always has good hair. All these things.
These are appropriate comments. Go check out a brand new
YouTube channel again, subscribe to it Doug Gottlieb Show, Doug
Gottlieb Show. Byer, What do you think You're always a
neutral bystander. You're also a huge college football fan. You know,
(16:13):
I process emotions, and I'm not going to say Mike
Gundy and I are besties. He usually comes on once
a year when I'm personally super nice to me. But
We're not like constantly changing text messages, Christmas cards, whatever.
I just I've never understood this. I got to fire
a guy right now because I'm mad because we lost
(16:33):
a game that I didn't think we should lose or
not as good as we're supposed to be. Instead of
going like, okay, like what's the right thing to do
by all people, this is not It's that's my take.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
I agree, And I think that even from whether it
be from you know, five feet away or five hundred
miles away, it is a bad move because I think
that the outside perspective of Oklahoma State is twofold. So
you see Gundhy being fired. They're four year start quarterback.
You mentioned all time winning as coach, and it's not
(17:03):
even close. I mean in being their twenty years, one
hundred and seventy wins. Second place is sixty two. So
if there's anybody that's Oklahoma State, it's Mike Gundy. And
if you're a coach and you go there and you say, well,
if I don't get things going, what are they going
to do to me? So that turns I think could
turn candidates off at one point. The other point is
(17:24):
I think from a national perspective is for the coaches
that we know and that stand out at Oklahoma State
outside of Mike Gundy, there's two of them, Jimmy Johnson
and Les Miles, and those coaches used Oklahoma State as
a stepping stone, springboard gap. Yeah. It was not Mike.
That was not Mike Gundy's deal. This was his destination.
(17:46):
This was his destiny. If you will, so to move
off of Gundy in this fashion, the next coach you're
going to get is probably going to use you as
a springboard. As you say, I stay say stepping stone
and that that's what I think is lost on it
from the outside looking in. It's to be careful what
you wish for. Thing with Oklahoma State.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah yeah, and listen, and it's a lesson. I also
think there's an expression in coaching. I don't know if
you guys ever heard this. Every year you coach somewhere,
you make an enemy, right, and you coach somewhere long
enough twenty one years, you make twenty one enemies. Eventually
they'll get you. Now, look, if he's winning games, you
go back to last year, this time the beat Arkansas,
they're undefeated, the ranked fourteenth in the country, there were
(18:32):
those enemies were silent, were silent, but you start losing
and they get loud, They get really loud. Ken I
continue to reiterate as my Gundy that Oklahoma state head
coach has lost its job today. Was fired was? It
ain't about hiring firing a head coach. It's about doing
things the right way. And then you compound it by
the fact that he's an alum. He was a great
(18:54):
quarterback in one of the few great eras in Oklahoma
state history, and he had been successful for nineteen consecutive years.
After his first year, by the way, when he took
over the job from Less Miles, he ran like nine
guys off because he wanted quality, character guys right, So
he kind of sacrificed his first year to build it.
(19:15):
But he thought was the right way. And again, it's
not about firing a coach, it's about why are we
firing him three games in the season. Let's ask John Middlecoffee.
He joins us now on the Doug Gotlieb Show on
Fox Sports, Rady, we whant to get to NFL football
Ravens defense. What's going on? Why they keep coming up
short in the fourth quarter and second But first just
your reaction. My Gundy out of a job again from
(19:37):
fifteen hundred miles away. How's that feel?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, I'd say you could kind of see the writing
on the wall obviously last year going three and nine.
You know, I always struggle, like you said, three games in,
just get the divorce last offseason, right, why even do this?
And I know it's difficult because like you said, alumni,
you know, I think sometimes I think you're seeing it.
It's a little bit different because they just made the
playoffs last year, But it's hard to be in a
(20:00):
place this long in the Internet era, with the negativity
that surrounds programs, and I think you're seeing it with Dabo,
and I wonder, you know there was a loyalty and
I think clearly there's a loyalty with Dabbo and Clemson,
But like if I could recommend eathing to Dabbo, I'd
be like, Hey, you got this negativity, got people already
kind of coming for you if you get the opportunity
(20:22):
to take the forward a job, like sometimes in your profession,
you just need to reset. And a couple of years ago,
you know, Dundee and it was a tough decision turned
down Tennessee. Right who and you know, this.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Way back I guarantee that's what he's seeing today should
have taken.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
Tennessee well like in this era with t Moon gone. Yeah, right,
can you imagine Oklahoma State in twenty thirteen in this era, right,
they would have been much they would have been like
Texas Tech. But nowadays it doesn't feel like they regress
in terms of that. So it's like, is it My
first thought that yeah, is it a good job? Because
(21:00):
my first thought was no.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I honestly think you just hit a home run. John,
I had my brother told me that the same thing.
He's like, you know, the guy at Kansas State was
a great coach in FBS and he did a great
job his first couple of years. You know, Dabo Sweeney
was an unbelievable coach at Clemson and Mike Gundhy, now, right,
is unbelievable job. What happened to what happened? How did
(21:25):
Texas Tech suddenly become the best team in the Big
twelve because they got a billionaire funding it? It's really
not that hard. It's not that hard, you know, and
it takes you, and it takes you a couple of
years to kind of figure it out the portal and
all that other stuff. And this is their first year
going on in the portal. Right, so it's you have
more money than other people, you're gonna put a better
(21:46):
team out there.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
And every perfect last week text the Tech against Utah
these you know, they got first rounds of offensive line
texta deck. Even their best team offense couldn't stop the soul.
Well because they could never ever get a recruit to
come there. They didn't even waste time talking to them
because they nowadays like, you want NFL recruits, Well, this
(22:08):
is what we're offering. Boom will offer you more you
come here. And Texas Tech got good and obviously I
think Joey maguire is pretty good too. Yeah, but it
would not be good if Brushon wasn't good, if you
gave Oklahoma States. So it's this is this is a
money game. It's kind of become. You know, college basketball
was like this because the shoe contracts stuff pre nil,
(22:29):
but now football is basically the same thing that if
you don't have the elite money, you got no.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Shots, correct, correct, You gotta get really really lucky and
then you got a fin out. How you gotta stay healthy. Right.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Do you think he retired Mike, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Might do TV. It's got a lot of money, kids
are out of the house, got a gigantic house to
sell it on? How that sell? It's been on the
market for over a year. I don't know. Is that
part of me the things she goes does again? Maybe?
But he had a lot of money and he's got
I think he's actually got a cement business. I don't know.
He's different, dude.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
I got a question for you then.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean I heard he's got to be on TV.
How good would be on TV?
Speaker 4 (23:11):
Oh, well, he's hiring yesterday or Fox. I mean, he'll
be fine. Why would his house be for sale? Is
this something he sees coming? Then?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Uh no? His kids raw out of the house. It's
a huge house with like a menagerie of animals and stuff.
I just think it was a lot to maintain, to
be honest with you, they all have these gigantic houses
when they have their kids and they have everybody over whatever,
and then I think their wives are like, dude, this
is stupid, Like I don't I don't want this house.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Wait. Our landscaping bill is eight thousand dollars what do
we do?
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah? What are we? What are we actually doing? John
Middlcoff's our guest here on the Doug Gottlib Show. Enough College. Okay,
so there's a bunch of things last night with the
Lions beating the Ravens. The first thing is, was Derrick
Henry fumble prone?
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Before I thought that yesterday he had three total fumbles
in all of twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four,
it was like almost six hundred and fifty carries and
he has three this year and whatever fifty carries. So
the answer is no. And clearly, you know it's one
of those things. You know, you could say one individual fumble,
even if it's you know, bad ball security is a
(24:18):
freak play. Once this happened a couple of times. Clearly
it's in his head and got he got lucky when
he slammed his helmet on kind of that plastic bench
that during the winter gives heat. He didn't have a
horrific fall. I mean, he got luck. You gotta fell
on that bench. But clearly he's he's pretty worked up
over it, and let's face the heat. You know, they
(24:39):
kind of corralled him. You remove the one twenty eight
yard run. He had twenty two yards in all of
his other carries. So if you corral a guy like
him to ten or eleven carries for twenty yards, you're doing
a pretty good job. And after that big run, he
did nothing. The other thing with him, obviously the Hall
of Fame guy, he's actually more potent from like the
(24:59):
forty yard line. Did he have the goal line? Because
he's so easy to tackle, you know, in a short
yard of situation. You saw yesterday a couple of times
he got cut off immediately where in the open field,
he's not the most elusive guy, but he has great
feet and he gets you angled with a speed. But
he's not a great goal line back like you know
(25:19):
Montgomery would be because of size and leverage.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Did you see Lamar get tackled when he tried to
shake the linebacker from the Lions? And I was like, yeah,
I don't know if I've ever seen that happen before.
Right where it is like, wait, has Lamar Jackson become
a human being because he was a superhero before today?
Speaker 4 (25:39):
You know what happens? And I think it happens in
basketball sometimes, especially in college when you like run and
he used to happen for everyone. The zone defense, he
like would really throw people off. He's not used to
these guys not springing up the field. They would all
take a couple of steps and like five of them
would have be in different spots where he scrambled around.
If the guy wasn't open immediately, they would be a
(26:00):
couple of yards away from Usually these defensive linemen and
it happens to Kyler, Murray, Josh Allen. This the natural
pass rush fly up the field. Well, these guys are
so athletic, and especially if you're in man defense, all
your defensive backs are looking at the wide receivers and
he can just take off for ten, fifteen, twenty yards.
Last night they were just stopping and clearly they have
(26:21):
athletic defensive lineman, but definitely have athletic linebackers that I
think there was just a guy every four or five
yards and you got to get the line of credit.
They tackled well in space, and they got him a
lot in his legs. Sometimes those guys die for Lamar
and they missed. It felt like every time they died
and got his ankles, like he was going down. I'm
with Dad, I've never seen that. I don't think it's
(26:42):
going to be a theme, but I would imagine Spagnola
this week, in the best one to two matchup you'll
ever see, is going to try to do that because
they slowed him down before and all of a sudden,
we could be looking up and the Ravens are one
and three. But here's the thing. Does the missing Madibuke
who's an unreal d tackle and van Noy who they
(27:04):
hired off basically McAfee show who turned back into a
pro bowler. Those two guys missing the Ravens looked unraven like,
and Dan Campbell and that unit they leaned on them
all night long and kind of embarrassed them that you
rarely see the Ravens get shut like. Offensively, they have
them off games. They still stored I mean a lucky
thirty points, but they were in the mid twenties right
(27:26):
even without the last touchdowns. But the defense just I mean,
you could remove the seventy yard run and they got
one hundred and fifty yards and ran on them when
you know the runs are coming. So that's I think
the Ravens defensively they started slow last year too, but
losing these two front guys has a huge impact on
their physicality.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Russell Wilson is no longer the starting quarterback of the
New York Giants, right, Yeah, And I know we can
talk about Jackson Dart in our expectations of Jackson Dart,
but I want to take it just a second. That's
the last he'll be a starting quote, right, he may
start a game at some point in time the season,
maybe not, but like that's it, right, I mean, this
is what four teams in six years, and yeah, I
(28:12):
just this, this was he he couldn't do it with
the Steelers didn't want him, Giants don't want him, Broncos
didn't want him, Seahawks were done with him. Like this
is a weird end to a Hall of Fame caliber
career where if he comes back, he'll have to be
a backup that could occasionally spot start and you know,
hope somebody you know, or do the Flaco maybe maybe
(28:34):
you get you know, a team on a down year,
but otherwise, like if he chooses to stay in the game,
he probably goes to TV. He's gonna be a backup, correct.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, I mean I would say he wouldn't be even
backup caliber because he's so famous, and he got to
that kind of tipping point where he's almost too big
of a star to be a backup quarterback. It does
feel like it's quieted a little bit. You know, it's
been pretty seamless. Now. Last year he went the reverse right,
he was injured and didn't start early and then started
(29:04):
at the end, and then it kind of got weird
at the end. But this year we'll see how he
handles this situation, because there's still a point that if
it gets weird, if some stuff gets leaked, you could argue,
if he's not gonna your starting quarterback, he's then untouchable.
It's just not worth it. Now if I say that,
I would have said that about Carson Wentz and looking
at him six fra eight years starting for six different teams,
so you never know. But obviously Russell's way more famous
(29:29):
than Carson Wentz, so yeah, I would tend to lean
not only did he started career is definitely over right.
I think in his spot, like who is you know
who wants them right? Would you want him around your
young quarterback? I don't know. Typically teams like like case Keenum,
you know, they like their backup to actually be not
(29:51):
very famous right used to that role and then who
you know, like a Josh Allen Patrick mahomes Like, I
don't think you do that either, Like where does he
where does he fit in the hierarchy of the way
the league works. We have a lot of veteran quarterbacks
now would start and then that group of young guys,
which I don't really know if he fits in that loop.
So you could argue it could just be this off season.
(30:13):
Would you be stunned if we're going like midway through
training camp and he doesn't have a home.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
No, I think I think he does TV, that's my guess.
Speaker 4 (30:21):
But he's terrible. Well he doesn't say anything.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
I yeah, I know he's awful. Jay stew I don't
know if that was on air. In my ear's awful. Yeah,
there's lots of guys on TV that are awful. Won
a super Bowl. It's good looking guy. Why he's famous? Okay,
there's all these networks they're hiring a lot of people.
We if we if we want to play the game
of who's really good, there's plenty of guys that say
nothing that are on TV. Because he's a Hall of
Fame quarterback, Yeah, you just.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Throw him on a studio show. He's famous.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, yeah, sure, and he can say he can say
smart things. He just never he's just tried to always, always,
you know, playkate people with his opinions. So that's fine.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
You know, there's someone hit me up and they're like,
you know, we have this debate a lot, right, It's
Stafford a Hall of Famer, and you go back and forth.
And I like my hall of Fame to be like
pretty elite group of guys, likes the Mannings, the Brady.
But let's just say, like obviously, once we start talking
about the next tier of guys, Russell Wilson's a way
more accomplished player over the course of his career in
(31:19):
terms of Pro Bowls, in terms of just winning than
Stafford was. And I think, you know, these debates because
if you just have most people that think of the
end of his career is so bad. People forget how
awesome he was in his prime and he was a
pretty special player there for like five six years. But
the ending is, man, I mean, you talked about him
(31:41):
sip of his drop off. It's it's pretty ugly ending.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, we started with an ugly ending, we end with
an ugly ending. But he's not an ugly ending. He's
John Middlcoff. The volume is where you can find his
three and out podcast. You're the Best, Johnny. Thanks for
joining us. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
If you miss any today's show, checked out the podcast
to search Doug Gotleiber your podcast right after the show.
Today's podcast to be posted rated five stars. You can
even provide a review. Again. Just search Doug Gottlieb. Wherever
you get your podcast. You'll find the full show, the
best of version, and the end the bonus podcast, which
gets live as soon as this show concludes. Let's get
to Dan Byron, get to a game.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show. All right, Doug,
the game today is rank them. Okay, we're gonna look
at both ends of this spectrum. Starting out, Doug ranked
the top three teams in the NFL through three weeks.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Number three the LA Chargers Okay, love my Lightning Bolts
three and zero in their division as well. They mentioned
three oh in their division. I think I did number
the Buffalo Bills, the Buffalo Bills and number one phill Eagles.
(33:08):
All right, doesn't have to be pretty. They got three wins,
no losses, huge win over the Rams, gigantic winning Kansas
City over the Chiefs, and an opening game win as
well in uh, where do they play that game? That's
that wasn't of that Cowboys? Where they played?
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (33:27):
That was in Philly? That's right? Okay, So three, No,
I'm gonna go keep Phillies Eagles one.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
All right, Doug Rangy Three worst teams in the NFL
through three weeks.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Wow, Now that's a that's a fun discussion. That's a
fun discussion. Number one is the Saints. Let's work backwards, right,
the Saints they stink. Stinks that now it's getting competitive, right.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
A lot of good nominees here.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
There there are. You got the g Men, The g
men is one, Dolphins, the Titans, the Texans stink. I
mean what the precipitous decline of the Texans after two
years ago, new coach, new quarterback and got into the
playoffs and looking good in the playoffs. Hmm, I'm gonna
go Dolphins at two. Second worst team, okay, And I'll
(34:20):
say Giants at three, Giants at three.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
All right, Doug, speaking of the Giants, rank the three
quarterbacks on their current roster, Russell Wilson, Jamis Winston, and
Jackson Dart.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I'll go Jamis Winston, Jackson Dart, and Russell Wilson. I'm
a big Jamis guy. Plus, I just how can we
not get him eating the doves one one more time?
You get him eating the dubs?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
I agree. Again, we talked about this yesterday, but I
was hearing the news today surprised that Winston maybe wasn't
named the starter and they just made Wilson inactive.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Or that's the way to save your job, way to
save your job, you know, because then if you lose,
you're like, well, you know he got a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
Yeah. Ranked the top three Mike Gundy memories, Oh from
his home state.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
I mean number one has to be I'm a man,
Come after Me, which, by the way, was his highest
rated quarterback recruit ever. Couldn't play. It's funny about that, right,
Like his best quarterback ever showed up as a walk on. Actually,
both of his second best quarterback ever was a baseball player.
(35:32):
Another one is the offensive coordinate with the Falcons. People
want to see him and he was a wide receiver,
so they've kind of had some weird luck there for me,
that's what.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
That's what Wait wait wait, where's it was? Where's Brandon
Whedon on there?
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Whedon was the guy who's the base gotcha?
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Who is also what like twenty six when he was
like the starting quarterback.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
But he literally like walked in, was like, hey, I
want play football here, Like hey, he was there a
couple of years. But uh, anyway, by.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
The way, bet online is Zach Robinson four to one.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Zero is my guy. He's awesome. You know his mom
was a palm I think not sure they're palm at
Okaha State. The only reason he went there, he went
there's a wide receiver and then he was quarterback. He's
pretty good. And then when he got hurt the Colorado game,
that's when Whedon came in and they're like, hey, this
guy can actually play anyway. Number two number two is uh.
I think they got a logo we got one too,
(36:25):
or they got a brand. We have one right because
they they beat Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl. Okay,
and then the number three would be last time they
played Oklahoma they beat Oklahoma, and that was the night
of the day. My daughter committed to go to Oklahma
State and she called us from the called us from
the field when they're taking down the goalpost. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
The all time leading passer and Big Eight history Mike
Gundy Sun Boys Nights.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Yeah pretty good, right, Yeah, he had pretty good backfield
there with Thrman Thomas Yeah, and Barry Sanders.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Helps. That's game time, that game.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Okay, come next to the Doug Gottlieb Show. Things we
missed get into regards the NFL. It's called Tuesday Morning Quarterback.
It's only right here, it's only next. It's only on
the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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