June 3, 2025 • 38 mins
Doug reacts to the breaking news that the Knicks have fired head coach Tom Thibodeau and why he thinks the coach now gets the blame for the playoff exit. Doug weighs in on the Browns' quarterback situation. NFL Analyst and prolific podcaster John Middlekauff joins Doug to talk about the Browns, Steelers and all of the headlines around the NFL.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotleb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five,
twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching app as car what Up, It's Doug Gottlieb Show,
Fox Sports Radio. You know, the progression of events in
(00:29):
our day, Jay Stu, I think is it's normally not
interesting to anybody, but today I think it might be
actually interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Right? And I say that because you know, between you
and I sharing notes all day and then our discussion
about an hour for the show, you would think that
we had nothing to talk about today. You know, we're
(01:00):
like three days away from the NBA Finals. The only
topic you can really go with with the NBA Finals
is like, how fired up are you considering these are
two sort of no name teams. And look, I'm a
big obviously basketball guy, basketball fan. I know all these
guys and so I'm gonna watch, but I'm talking about
more of the mainstream fan NFL wise, like what are
(01:22):
you gonna go with Stefon Diggs and the pink cocaine
or are you going to talk about Aaron Rodgers. College sports,
I mean, college baseball is entertaining, and there's lots of
dramatic back and forth between umpires and players and coaches
and the NCAA and some of these coaches, and then
(01:43):
just the flamboyance of some of the players. Like Okay,
Oklahoma loses in softball. I didn't know that was actually possible.
But some of the former OU players are at Texas Tech,
Who's bought this championship team. Like, there's some interesting things
you can go with. But when you're when you're trying
to do a radio show at Nation Show, you're like, hey,
let's find a lead topic. Right, No, I don't know
(02:04):
what a lead topic always is, but this one was
dropped in her lap and it's a pretty good one.
Tom Thibodeau was fired today as head coach or just
recently just fired as head coach of the New York Dicks.
And what's amazing about the TIBs thing is, I mean,
there's just so many different levels to it. The first
(02:29):
part is that just comes to my mind is gosh, golly, uh,
I almost feel bad about you know, kind of clowning.
Whoever asked Jalen Brunson the question this is going back
after they lose in the conference finals, there was a
question and Brunson kind of laughed it off when he
(02:52):
was asked, you know whether or not TIBs was the guy.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
You talked about the confidence? Obviously, I feel like nobody
takes more criticism than Tom and this team obviously has
turned around during his tenure. Do you kind of feel
that going forward he's the same guy? If two guys
the rest of the way at next level?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
This is Is that a real question right now?
Speaker 5 (03:17):
You just ask me if I believe that, if he's
the right guy?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yes, thanks, guys, How come on, I mean I felt
the exact same way. Is that really a question? Is
this really a possibility now? If I'm being fair, how
many of us knew that Tibbs had been there for
for five years or that Tibbs guess his age? Okay,
(03:43):
it's sixty seven, right, But the Knicks reached the conference
finals for the first time in twenty five years. In
his fifth year, they won forty one thirty seven, forty seven,
fifty fifty one games. They've gotten better every year, they
(04:05):
gotten further in the playoffs the last three years. I
just I guess I'm still just stunned. And it doesn't
mean that it doesn't make some form of sense. Right
notoriously doesn't like to play his bench. They came upon
a deep team and they lost. But I think the
mistake here is that we're judging result, not judging process.
(04:29):
We're judging result, we're not judging process, and we can
sit here and he deserves some of the blame. And
I thought it was a poorly coached last fifty two
seconds when they're up nine points. But I mean, just
not guarding guys and missing free throws and turn the
ball over is not tips. It's just not is it?
Does it technically fall under your purview because you're the
(04:51):
head coach? Yeah, but any head coach tell you, he's like,
what did you want me to do? And what did
you want me to do? So let me get this straight.
The Knicks, who have been sort of a laughing stock organization,
they finally, finally, finally seem to kind of figure some
(05:13):
stuff out and they make it to where they're at.
They go Conference Semis Conference Semis Conference Finals. They are
climbing the ladder of success. Climbing the ladder of success.
They promptly fired Tom Thibodeau after five seasons, which is
the longest anybody had lasted since Jeff Van Gundy. But
(05:38):
Van Gundy went Conference Semis, Conference Semis, lost in the finals,
lost in the conference finals, lost in the first round.
Then he was fired early on the next season. It
just kind of worn out its welcome. I just I
don't get it. I don't. It doesn't mean that Tom
Thibodeau is the only coach of AILA. It doesn't mean
(06:01):
he's the best coach on earth. But he fit what
they were trying to do. It mirrored with his best
player in Jalen Brunson. And whether you want to judge
judge it based upon results or you want to judge
it based upon the process, the process was better. It
was better. And unfortunately this is what we do in
(06:25):
the NBA. And I'm sure that Tibbs had to sign
off on the Carl Anthony Towns trade. Hey, but remember
Karl Anthony Towns was also a Leon Rose client. So
the guy running the Knicks used to be an agent
and a good one, and he's a good dude. I
don't know. I'm not somebody who he was. He didn't
(06:46):
rep me, but he w rerepped friends of mine, and
everybody's like, he's a really good dude. I believe that.
But this is choosing. It appears choosing Tibbs over choosing
the player have been catching a beating because he doesn't
play much defense, doesn't appear in great shape, and he
took some bad shots, especially in that last game. Jaden
(07:08):
Bruns did to taken a little bit of beating. How
many times had people said, hey, he's not good enough
to be your best player win a championship with and
we can And there'll be people who say, and this
is not inaccurate. It is accurate that they only beat
the Celtics when the Celtics' best player got hurt, But
(07:28):
they were beating the Celtics regardless of that. Now they
had to come from twenty down. I just it feels
like a complete buzzkill to anyone trying to, as I
have done, put a positive note and thought on the
next season. The Knicks had a successful season. They won
fifty one games, they got into the conference finals, they
(07:50):
got the game six of the conference finals. Now that's
judging result. Process wise, gotten better and better and better
they the roster, the best players bought in. Will he
win you a champion? With a coach win you a championship?
He's never gotten past the conference finals. I understand that,
(08:10):
but unless you're bringing in a proven guy who's won
conference championships and gotten to an NBA Finals and won
a conference championship, what are you actually doing? And it
shows a continuing loyalty to the players above that of
the coaches, above that of the coaches. It does feel
like Leon Rose is one listening to fans and then
(08:32):
maybe maybe listening to Karl Anthony Towns, who's this former client,
and because he was taking such a beating in the media,
now this takes the blame off of his shoulders. It
puts the blame squarely on TIBs for losing that last series.
Whatever they say, it doesn't actually matter. Reality of it
(08:52):
is when you lose the series in the conference finals,
the furthest the Knicks had gotten in twenty five years,
especially the way and list of the lost game one,
and the first change you make to is that of
the head coach. You're blaming him for the losses. And
again I don't think it's fair, but I'm not going
to lead with the well, it's not fair. Life's not fair.
Coaching is not fair. It's a great job, a terrible profess.
(09:16):
It's a great profession, a terrible job, because you can
have an incredibly successful year and turn around everything within
the franchise and they just don't think you're good enough
to get them over the hump and they move on.
The shams tweet was the Knicks were leaving Tom Thibodau
of his duties as head coach. Sources this tele ESPN.
(09:36):
TIBs led the Knicks to the first Eastern Conference Finals
in twenty five years, made the playoffs four or five years,
led the Knicks toif consecutive fifty plus wins season for
the first time since the nineties. The Knicks are singularly
focused in the pursuit of a championship and believe a
new voice will serve as the focus for the organization's
next step. Starts Is said. After five seasons with the Knicks,
Tom Thibdau is out as head coach. I can only
(09:58):
think of one guy who has not one NBA championship
who you should call, right You would think it'd be
Jay Wright because he's coached, you know, two NCAA championship
teams because he's a Philly obviously not New York, but
(10:24):
respect he's incredibly respected. You got three Vanila Villanova Wildcats.
Uh and I think Mike Malone is probably the other guy.
You could only hire somebody who's won championships. If you're
going to fire Tom Tibodeau, only do it because otherwise,
like what are we doing?
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It's that Gottleib Show, Fox Sports Radio. I hope you're
having a great day, better day than Tom Thibodeau fired
by the New York neckt scepter, taking the Knicks to
the Eastern Conference finals first time in twenty five years.
More on that to come, plus John and o'coff joins
us in six minutes six minutes. I want to play
for you something. So a lot of talk, obviously about
the Browns their quarterback situation. You know, you bring in
(11:14):
a former starter in Kenny Pickett, you got Joe Flacco,
you decide not to draft one of the first round
and said you wait to the third running draft. Dylan Gabriel,
who feels like, you know, he's literally he's not crazy athletic,
but he can make some plays. He feels like a
great dude back up. Maybe you can get away with
him if you surround him with Town as a starter.
(11:35):
I don't know. Then they draft Shador Sanders in the
fifth round, and suddenly, wow, you have a weird plus.
You have Deshaun Watson who's still under contract and we
worked his contract coming off of a twice torn Achilles tenant.
Here's Kevin Sevanski, their head coach.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Those guys are doing great.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
They are both wired to get in early, get stay late,
put in.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Whatever work is required.
Speaker 6 (11:57):
There's sponges in the meeting room with I think is
really fun for me and my vantage point. I got
to sit there and watch the two young guys look
over and there's Joe forty years old, one super Bowl.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
There's Kenny Pickett just going.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
Into year four, but first round draft pick that's been
on a couple teams, won a Super Bowl last year.
There's Deshaun had a ton of success in his career.
They can kind of feed off of all those guys.
So that's the thing. I'm really it's fun for me
to watch them get better sometimes just by listening.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's fine, you can get better just by listening.
But it's gonna take some sort of bold, decisive action
in order to figure this thing out. Is it not.
Speaker 7 (12:39):
Right?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It feels like it's going to take some sort of
bold decisive action, and it feels fairly obvious. The owner
drafted Shador Sanders and yeah, I mean, I don't know
what you do. I don't know how you do it.
(13:00):
Stefanski's offense is kind of a run based offense. I
don't think they're gonna be particularly good anyway. Miles Garrett,
remember he took all that money in the offseason with
a new contract, and well, I just I wanted to
see how we're gonna win. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sure
that's what it was. You know, we can't say an
(13:20):
organization is really well run if we don't have organizations
that are not really well run. And if you want
one that's not really well run, I give you the
Cleveland Browns because either way, either you're drafted a third
round pick to get cut or a fifth round pick
that you didn't need or maybe both, but it just
(13:41):
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Speaker 8 (13:56):
Three and one to Trot runners at first and second,
two runs in, nobody out swings a sense a drive
out to left center field.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
Yeah, baby, get down, one up.
Speaker 8 (14:06):
But for the monster, Mike Trout's tenth of the year.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, that one went three hundred and forty five feet
Is that what it was? Or or four hundred, four
hundred forty five feet an absolute monster if you didn't know.
Mike Trot is back playing baseball, which means the Angels
are going to tease this for another couple of weeks
and then they're going to go back to the dildrums
of last place where they belong. I'm just kidding. I'm
an Angel fanom jaded. How do you think the Browns
(14:32):
thing goes down?
Speaker 8 (14:34):
Well, I think it's pretty clear that Flacco is going
to be the quarterback week one, and you know they
can manipulate the reps right now and even in training
camp because he's been there before, he knows the scheme.
But I think that you know, given that two years
ago he was a huge reason that they were in
the playoffs, that he has equity built up with some
of their older veteran guys that have been on the
(14:56):
team for a while, So I think you have to
do that. I also think, and you know this, I
mean as a coach, you know when you bring in
a guy and you want the guy that there's some
level of connection and pretty clearly like they liked the
Dylan Gabriel And my theory from the jump was that
the owner made them draft to Door Sanders because it
(15:17):
doesn't you know, it's one thing, you know, the way
the story played out RG three, they never wanted RG three.
The owner made them do it, and then they took
Cousins in the fourth. But like a first and fourth
round quarterback not I mean, we've seen like, that's not
the craziest thing, I guess, even though it's pretty unprecedented,
the third and fifth is insane, right, you would never
(15:37):
take a quarterback, because if you're taking a guy pass
like the top fifty picks, you're viewing him as a backup.
So to take two backup quarterbacks just doesn't make much sense.
So I think they're gonna, you know, I don't want
to say rig it, but like he's gonna get the
first opportunity. I think I just saw before I hopped
on with you a headline that Chadors listed, you know,
(15:58):
as the four string quarterback. But you know, players know,
so if you make plays in camp, earn respect, you know.
It's it's a meritocracy based sport. Like it's hard to
be good and still not get any runs. So if
he plays better, like he'll he'll kind of move up
the depth chart.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
During August Stut Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio,
that's the voice of John Middlcoff, I said this early
in the week, and I believe to be true. We
don't know, but the Steelers have to know what Aaron
Rodgers is doing, right, Like, they can't be sitting there
waiting wondering, can they unless.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
They're like their backup plan would be cousins. Though, you know,
when you look at Arthur Smith, you know, you had
success with Tanny Hill, who was a mobile guy, and
even last year with the two guys mobility des been ridder.
You know, not a good player, but he's a mobile player.
I think they had signed Mariota, who he'd obviously worked
(17:01):
with in Tennessee. So I don't know if Cousins makes
sense there. But that's the only because at this point
in time to just basically give Aaron the spring off,
which doesn't matter that much for a lot of guys
like Miles Garrett, for example, went to Japan with his girlfriend.
My thought on that was like, yeah, Miles Garrett didn't
want to be in Cleveland. They paid him so much
(17:23):
money he couldn't say no. But it doesn't change the
fact that he doesn't want to be there. But regardless,
like Miles Garrett get fifteen sacked, whether it shows up
in the spring or not, because he knows the scheme,
he's done with the coaches. Aaron Rodgers doesn't know of
these people, he's never It's the one thing that's you know,
Arthur Smith seven years in Green Bay when he was there,
that's not the cap It was in Tennessee all the time.
So bizarre situation it shows you, you know, the Steelers,
(17:45):
that they have just gotten to this weird mode and
let's once you have a Hall of Fame level quarterback
retire even though, like you know, Ben, remember he ripped
up his elbow, it wasn't even quite the same in
the last couple of years, but they just have had
no back a plan and now they're in this position
where it's like they're also in a division with two
guys that look like first ballot Hall of Famers in
(18:07):
Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson the peak of their powers,
so it could get really ugly really fast. For the Feelers,
it feels like it's going to be weird no matter what.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Right, it does feel like it's going to be weird.
If they don't have Aaron Rodgers, I don't see how they.
Speaker 8 (18:21):
Win, and if they maybe they'd be in trouble.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
And if they do have Aaron Rodgers, I still not
convinced that that's you know, he doesn't have a lot
of time with these guys. It's not gonna be the
same system. And it wasn't like he was great all
year last year anyway.
Speaker 8 (18:36):
So.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's a weird one to me. It's super super super
super weird one to me, Okay, uh, we haven't discussed.
I don't think we've talked since the brock Purty deal.
So how much does this handicap him handicap them in
terms of putting talent around brock.
Speaker 8 (18:56):
Perty Well, I think they have two examples in their
conference with two guys that aren't viewed as top five
quarterbacks but one guy just wanted to Super Bowl and
Jalen Hurst and the other guys you know, resurrect his
career and become a really good player, and Jared Goff.
So they play unloaded, especially offenses right to a lead
offensive lines, high paid skill guys all around him, especially
(19:18):
Jalen I mean that the amount of money they've invested
in a j. Brown, DeVante Smith, I mean Godard had
to take a pay cut he was making so much money.
Sakuon gets a huge contract. All the offensive linemen except
like one makes big money and they've figured it out.
So I actually think, like Rockberdy liked those guys, has
proven if you do a good job around him, you
can compete, and they weren't going to move off of them.
(19:41):
So I know that was a conversation, but like he's
going to be their quarterback before they signed this contract.
The pressure now is on Kyle and John to do
a really good job. And you know they paying Robert Sola.
You know, I think you know it's hard because this
is not public information, but we're on the street. Is
he's right there with San Joe's the highest paid defense
cos sinator in the league. And it's proven, like he
(20:02):
is a good defensive coordinator. You just get Huff who
he's worked with ten sacks. You draft a guy really high,
like these guys got to produce and they got to
be good. So to me, like pretty is what he is.
He's a good player when he's got talent around him,
just like Jared Goffin, just like Jalen Hurts that the
pressure now is on the coaching staff in the GM
because at the end of the day, where I get
Purty some credit, he could have really made it weirder
(20:25):
and demanded more. I mean, he got fifty million less
in total guarantees than Dak Prescott, and I think most
people would argue they're pretty similar operators, right party's and
they had the better moments than when the lights are
the brightest in the NFC playoffs, So you know, Dak
like Dak, like thirty they make a lot of money
off the field because of the brands they played for,
(20:46):
and perty was pretty easy to play ball with. The
Dak clearly has proven that he's not and he's going
to take every penny like he's Peyton Manning or something.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, it's it's a bay.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
Also, you know the obviously mikeah Parks is going to
get a huge contract and more than likely it'll come
late August. My theory, Doug is like Jerry because you
have to get these huge signing bonuses now that it's
like he doesn't want to take the money out of
wherever he has invested in a market or something to
the last possible seconds, because it's kind of like rinsewash repeat,
(21:19):
contract in the middle or the end of August with
so many of these teams just kind of do them
now and just kind of get them out of the way.
And it just feels like as long as Jerry's around,
they're just going to do business. Like but what's the
point if you're not going to trade him or whatever.
Just give him the amount of money that he inevitably
is going to get right now.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Forgive me if I didn't know about Frank Ragnow potentially
retiring caught me as a surprise. Is it considered a
surprise in the business.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
Yeah, I mean I would be a little stunned. I
haven't seen the quotes. I don't know if Dan Campbell
talks today or tomorrow or some of their coaches. Dude,
you know, at practice. But I'd be a little stunned
they didn't have knowledge. You know, a guy like that,
I would imagine as a pretty good relationship with Dan
Campbell and they would have some knowledge. I do think
when you see his quotes, like he talks about the pain,
(22:12):
and you know some of the worries he has, like
I think an underrated part about football players, even as
the game quote unquote has gotten softer and the trenches
is still pretty physical. And you know, this guy was
first round pick. I think when he signed his contract
extension highest States center, he was one of the better
offensive linemen in the league. And you don't become one
(22:34):
of the better offensive line in the league if you're
not just a tough SOB and you love football. So
I can't imagine he was in a lot of pain.
And I see no scenario where the Lions don't have
some knowledge of that now. I also think, you know,
with centers are really important. And when you have a
Jason Kelsey, a rag Now, a guy like that, you know,
(22:55):
Alex Mack when he was damn good. I mean, there
have been players in that position. It is probably the
most replaceable of Like if Trent Williams disappears or you
know whoever Lane Johnson disappears, is usually a pretty big
drop off. Who your backup is at center. The drop
off can be much more marginal because you have two
guards to help him out and you kind of manipulate it.
(23:17):
So it's it's not the end of the it wouldn't
be like Pina Seol retired. It's not. It's not as
punitive that way.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I would say, Yeah, but.
Speaker 8 (23:26):
It's it's not idea you wouldn't choose.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
No, it's again, if it was the only thing changing
about the Detroit Lions, no big deal. But when you
lose both your coordinators some other personnel and now you
lose your center, it feels like a bigger deal. That's
really more my point.
Speaker 8 (23:45):
I think where they benefit is, you know, if Dan
Campbell truly is you know what he's proven to be
through a short period of time, you know, a Tomlin
Harbough brother like kind of figure. They also been a
bit while they're to Vision is stacked and loadedsn't got
a lot of questions with the Bears and the quarterback
situation with the with the guy that's never been a
(24:07):
head coach, you know, the Vikings, their quarterback situation regardless
how often their roster is is more than a question.
And the Packers are just we just know are going
to be solid, but it's not well. The division is daunting.
There are some questions with the people you have to
go through, and Detroit's already proven, at least with their
players and their head coach, that they can tackle. It's right.
(24:30):
I wouldn't sell as Alliance stockholder. I still feel pretty
confident they're going to be damn good in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
John Mitalcoff's our guest here on the Doug Gottlieb Show
on Fox Sports Radio. Yeah, I'm I'm I don't know
what they're going to be like. You know, I just
know as good as Philadelphia was when they lost last
time they lost a coordinator, they were they looked like
a mess. You know, they look like a mess, and
now you start talking about losing important pieces in the
offensive side as well. It's just it's going to at
(25:02):
minimum be interesting to track what that looks like. The CJ.
Stroud has a sore shoulder. I only bring it up
because he had a tough year last year. And which
CJ Shroud do you expect to see this year you're
one or a year two?
Speaker 8 (25:23):
Well, I'll be honest, I don't think it's not a
big deal. You know, I would say that it is.
When I saw that headline, I went whoa new coordinator?
Like you said, the offense underwhelmed? He you know, it
looked like after year one, like this guy was going
to be a franchise quarterback, a guy top five player
in the league. Those type guys get huge contracts after
(25:44):
the third year, right Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar technically didn't.
Fay had to battle it out, but Joe Burrow and
it looked like CG after the first year. Then last
year you're like, what and now he can't throw? Like listen,
okas now relative to what they used to be ten, fifteen,
thirty years ago, are pretty easy, but they are important
(26:05):
just to just get the timing down with some of
your wide receivers, especially when you're installing just new offensive philosophies,
even if they are carrying over offensive philosophies from coordinator
to coordinator, just getting on the same page with the guys.
So clearly a shoulder is not feeling great. Like how
many other quarterbacks in the NFL from the home from
Lamar to Josh to anyone so Kyler Murray that are
(26:28):
at practice aren't able to throw on June whatever the
day is today, the second or third. That's a little alarm.
I just think that's something to kind of keep a
closed eye on. I just don't think it's nothing. Do you.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I don't either, But again I don't know. And then
and then I'm wondering. I'm just wondering what happened to him?
THENU factoring a sore shoulder, and now I'm really I
am concerned. But again, I mean.
Speaker 8 (26:56):
They just last year, you know, I mean, I little
like what the Knicks just did. It's it's always easier
to just blame everything on a coach, right, and they
blamed everything on the offensive coordinator. It was his fault,
even though a year ago it's like c J. Stroud,
like the greatest rookie season since like Marino, like so, which,
so this guy just forgot how to coach the next year,
Like it's Tom Thibodeau just a bad defensive coach or
(27:18):
his two best players bad at defense? You know, it's
like it's c J. Strout just was he overwhelmed? Was
their offensive line personnel awful? Uh? So? I you know,
I think that's still a major question mark now, the
one thing they got going for him. You know, they
don't exactly play you know, murders row as a division, right,
So I think the Jags have a lot of question marks.
(27:39):
The Titans just I mean, they're gonna have a rookie
quarterback and they're gonna have some growing pains, So I
I would say that. And the Colts. I mean, if
I was a betting man right now, I'd say Daniel
Jones is probably gonna be their starting quarterback. So that's
that's not ideal. Uh So, I do think that that
benefits the Texans greatly. Who it and listen, I it's
a coaching quarterback sport. I think some questions marks with
(28:02):
a quarterback. But I do think Demiko is just a
pretty big stut so I've been a believer in Dimiko
Ryance for a long time.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I you and me are an agreement about Demiico Ryans, Doug
Gotlieb Show, Fox Sports Tridio, John Midlcoff's our guest H
three and Out is The podcast is available in the
Volume podcast network. Where are You in the Jordan Love
took a step back conversation last year.
Speaker 8 (28:28):
I just think they were in a tough predicament, right,
he was so deep into his rookie contract and he
has the eight games, Like in a perfect world, would
they want to give him a contract then, of course not,
but they were kind of stuck. I just think you
never know with a player, Like part of being a
great player is not having a great season, right, Like
(28:49):
what makes Derek Henry's career so incredibly He's been doing
it for a long time now, you know, Peyton Manning,
Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, whoever. So you just never truly know.
And once you have have more tape on a guy
that had never really played, people can attack you a
little differently. Then you get injured. How do you battle
through injuries? I still am a believer because I just
(29:09):
believe in the operation. I mean that the Green Bay
Packers have proven it for a long time. I think
their coach knows what he's doing. I think their team
is as talented. But I like, if you said, gun
to my head, is Jordan Love going to rattle off
Pro Bowls or be a guy that's viewed as disappointing
in the next couple of years, I think it would
(29:31):
be hard to make a prediction. And I think he's
probably one of the bigger question marks going into because
what he did down the stretch and even in that
playoff game against the Cowboys, like he kind of looked
like Aaron Rodgers. And then I think sometimes like last year,
he did get injured in the first game of the
season and it just kind of derailed his It just
wasn't quite the same. So I believe I'm the high
(29:54):
end traits talent guy, especially when they've proven like he's
shown me can make throws from the pop, I can
redefense and stuff. But like, it's it's hard to have.
It's hard to be a player that just every year
you know is gonna be like I don't know. I mean,
look at the top guys like what makes Lamar, Joe Burrow,
Josh Allen Mahomes, like every year, you know, you're just
(30:15):
guys gonna play winning football at a high level, And
I think that's what's hard and separates players. So I
think if you're a Packer fan, you're like cautiously optimistic.
But it's like a pretty big year for him, especially
because they when they go one in five in the division,
they still won eleven games.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
So to what if five I needed a Bears doint
field goal to get that one win.
Speaker 8 (30:40):
Yeah, so I maybe I'm too bullish on him, but
I'm probably I might end up picking them to win
the division because you tell me, they went one in
five and won eleven games, So what if they just
go three and three? You know, are they a twelve
or thirteen win team in twenty twenty five? I'd have
to bring up their schedule. But I mean, schedule is
always hard because of the division they play in, and
(31:00):
I think that division schedule this year. I remember looking
at the Bears and Lions. It's not going to be easy.
So did they played the I think they played the
NFC East in the AFC North, right, is that what
the A division plays? Yes, it's gonna be chalenty.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
John great stuff. As always, man, thanks for being our guests.
We appreciate. It's Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
UH news today continues to be Tom Thibodeau was fired
as the head coach of the New York Knicks, and that,
of course was John Mindocoff. Three and Out is is
the podcast, the NFL focused podcast. Come on next live
(31:37):
on The Doug Gottlieb Show. Who are the most important
players in the upcoming NBA Finals. I'll share my thoughts next.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
It's Doug Gotleb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Okay,
we got some browny news up coming top of the hour.
I know you love your Bronny news. You're like, oh,
Bronny news. And the one only ice Cube is gonna
be joining us next hour, talking some Big three hoops
with the founder of the music movie artist rap Icon,
co founder and current CEO of the Big Three Professional
(32:14):
three and three League ice Cube. Next hour on the show,
Let's get to a game with Monty Blagnias.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
This is game time on The Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Well, that's what's the game today.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
We are playing Rankum, that's right, coach, So you're gonna
be ranking a variety of things today, and we're gonna
start in the NBA, just with the breaking news of
the Knicks letting go, relieving Tom Thibodeau of his head
coaching duties after five years. So, coach, why don't you
rank the three best available coaches to take over the next.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Okay? Yeah, I would say putting you on the spot. No,
that's fine, that's fine. Three best coaches. Number three is
jeff En Gundy. Okay, okay, back in the league. Is assistant,
did a great job. Number two is Jay Wright Jr.
(33:19):
One championships. He has won two NCAA championships and he's
coached those guys. And then number one is Mike Malone.
Mike maloneye okay, one NBA championship, has that hard edge.
His dad, Brendan Malone, worked for the Knicks as well
as the Pistons are in the Bad Boy Pistons. Yeah,
I'd go Mike Malone one.
Speaker 7 (33:38):
Dan Hurley not on the list.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Um, I think we'd Dan be great, you know that
would be interesting.
Speaker 7 (33:48):
Yeah, probably four, probably four, So on the short list,
but not in the three. Okay, all right, all right,
I like that.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
All right, Let's move on.
Speaker 7 (33:56):
Staying here in the NBA, coach outside of j Gilga,
Alexander and Tyrese Halliburton ranked the top three most important
players in the upcoming NBA Finals, which starts Game one
on Thursday. Outside of who outside of the two big
(34:18):
guards Shay gil just Alexander and Tyrese Halliburton.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Uh, outside of the two big guards, shake gils, who
are the most important players? Okay?
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Just the top three.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Alex Cruso three, okay, Pascal Siakam two and jal Jalen
Williams one. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
I think Jalen Williams.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Is a j dove Jaalen Williams. There's two Jayla Williams
in the same.
Speaker 7 (34:47):
Right, right, right, right, all right, but I agree with
you on that one, coach. All right, Let's move on
here to the NFL rank the top three Browns quarterbacks
to be on the opening day depth chart this season,
since right now, how they have five hop.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Three Browns quarterbacks to be on the opening day So
ranked the top three quarterback Okay, I have to be
in the Browns.
Speaker 7 (35:06):
Depth chart, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Uh, I'll do Joe flat Okay, So I'll do Shadore
Sanders three, sure, easy, not easy, Kenny pick it two,
and Joe Flaco one.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
All right, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
I like that?
Speaker 5 (35:25):
All right?
Speaker 7 (35:26):
Moving on here, let's head to baseball. Why not rank
the three worst Major League Baseball teams right now? Oh,
there's some bad ones. Yeah, yeah, there's some there's some
bad ones.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Like, hey, guys, we can't all tank it once. That
doesn't work, right, that doesn't that doesn't work. What's interesting
is like, I don't think the Orioles are that bad,
but that thing fell apart really quickly so fast. Rock
Rockies are one, you know, and White Sox are two.
Speaker 7 (35:58):
Okay, okay, you got a couple options for that third one?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah I do. I'm when I get the Pirates of
the A's, I'm gonna go with the Pirates.
Speaker 7 (36:10):
With the Pirates, yeah, it's like you want I want
them to be good for Paul Schemes good.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, no they're not.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
All right.
Speaker 7 (36:19):
Uh, let's let's how about this one coach out of
the normal big you know, sports events, super Bowl, NBA Finals,
World Series, Stanley Cup, World Cup. How about you rank
these three sporting events Wimbledon, the Masters and Tour de France.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Wimbledon, Master's Tour Defronce. Huh, Masters, Tour de France, Master's fronts.
Uh this just for me personally, Yeah, yeah, Tour de
Front's three Masters to Wimbledon one.
Speaker 7 (36:56):
All right, that's actually how I wrote it down for me.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
So I was c yeah, are on, why do you
have Why do you have Wimbledon ahead of the Masters.
Speaker 7 (37:04):
So I feel like I would enjoy the competitiveness a
little bit to meet golf. I'm not gonna lie. It
seems it's a little slow for me. So I just
think I would enjoy watching tennis more than I would
enjoy watching golf at the Masters, even though the Master
seems like you have to check it off the list.
I want to go buy all that food for what
(37:25):
fifty seven dollars? Yeah, but Wimbledon, where all white have
a more highly maybe competitive, and just it's see, you know,
back and forth versus slow pace. Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, that's how it is.
Speaker 7 (37:42):
Just for me.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I just think again, I love the Masters, and I
know that that golfers regard the Masters as that's the
one that's the one. Yeah, Whereas I do think that
the US Open is right there with Wimbledon. Really, I
just think Wimbledon is such great pomp, circumstance, so unique,
such an incredible setting. I don't know that that's why
(38:04):
I do it anyway. That's uh, that's game time.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
Yeah, this is game time on the Dog Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Okay, coming up next to The Doug Gottlieb Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. Wait to hear what one NBA
executive said about his expectations for Brownie James next year
with the Lakers. I want to hear it. It's next
on Fox Sports Radio.
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotleb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five,
twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio dot com,
or stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app
by searching app as car what Up, It's Doug Gottlieb Show,
Fox Sports Radio. You know, the progression of events in
(00:29):
our day, Jay Stu, I think is it's normally not
interesting to anybody, but today I think it might be
actually interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Right? And I say that because you know, between you
and I sharing notes all day and then our discussion
about an hour for the show, you would think that
we had nothing to talk about today. You know, we're
(01:00):
like three days away from the NBA Finals. The only
topic you can really go with with the NBA Finals
is like, how fired up are you considering these are
two sort of no name teams. And look, I'm a
big obviously basketball guy, basketball fan. I know all these
guys and so I'm gonna watch, but I'm talking about
more of the mainstream fan NFL wise, like what are
(01:22):
you gonna go with Stefon Diggs and the pink cocaine
or are you going to talk about Aaron Rodgers. College sports,
I mean, college baseball is entertaining, and there's lots of
dramatic back and forth between umpires and players and coaches
and the NCAA and some of these coaches, and then
(01:43):
just the flamboyance of some of the players. Like Okay,
Oklahoma loses in softball. I didn't know that was actually possible.
But some of the former OU players are at Texas Tech,
Who's bought this championship team. Like, there's some interesting things
you can go with. But when you're when you're trying
to do a radio show at Nation Show, you're like, hey,
let's find a lead topic. Right, No, I don't know
(02:04):
what a lead topic always is, but this one was
dropped in her lap and it's a pretty good one.
Tom Thibodeau was fired today as head coach or just
recently just fired as head coach of the New York Dicks.
And what's amazing about the TIBs thing is, I mean,
there's just so many different levels to it. The first
(02:29):
part is that just comes to my mind is gosh, golly, uh,
I almost feel bad about you know, kind of clowning.
Whoever asked Jalen Brunson the question this is going back
after they lose in the conference finals, there was a
question and Brunson kind of laughed it off when he
(02:52):
was asked, you know whether or not TIBs was the guy.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
You talked about the confidence? Obviously, I feel like nobody
takes more criticism than Tom and this team obviously has
turned around during his tenure. Do you kind of feel
that going forward he's the same guy? If two guys
the rest of the way at next level?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
This is Is that a real question right now?
Speaker 5 (03:17):
You just ask me if I believe that, if he's
the right guy?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yes, thanks, guys, How come on, I mean I felt
the exact same way. Is that really a question? Is
this really a possibility now? If I'm being fair, how
many of us knew that Tibbs had been there for
for five years or that Tibbs guess his age? Okay,
(03:43):
it's sixty seven, right, But the Knicks reached the conference
finals for the first time in twenty five years. In
his fifth year, they won forty one thirty seven, forty seven,
fifty fifty one games. They've gotten better every year, they
(04:05):
gotten further in the playoffs the last three years. I
just I guess I'm still just stunned. And it doesn't
mean that it doesn't make some form of sense. Right
notoriously doesn't like to play his bench. They came upon
a deep team and they lost. But I think the
mistake here is that we're judging result, not judging process.
(04:29):
We're judging result, we're not judging process, and we can
sit here and he deserves some of the blame. And
I thought it was a poorly coached last fifty two
seconds when they're up nine points. But I mean, just
not guarding guys and missing free throws and turn the
ball over is not tips. It's just not is it?
Does it technically fall under your purview because you're the
(04:51):
head coach? Yeah, but any head coach tell you, he's like,
what did you want me to do? And what did
you want me to do? So let me get this straight.
The Knicks, who have been sort of a laughing stock organization,
they finally, finally, finally seem to kind of figure some
(05:13):
stuff out and they make it to where they're at.
They go Conference Semis Conference Semis Conference Finals. They are
climbing the ladder of success. Climbing the ladder of success.
They promptly fired Tom Thibodeau after five seasons, which is
the longest anybody had lasted since Jeff Van Gundy. But
(05:38):
Van Gundy went Conference Semis, Conference Semis, lost in the finals,
lost in the conference finals, lost in the first round.
Then he was fired early on the next season. It
just kind of worn out its welcome. I just I
don't get it. I don't. It doesn't mean that Tom
Thibodeau is the only coach of AILA. It doesn't mean
(06:01):
he's the best coach on earth. But he fit what
they were trying to do. It mirrored with his best
player in Jalen Brunson. And whether you want to judge
judge it based upon results or you want to judge
it based upon the process, the process was better. It
was better. And unfortunately this is what we do in
(06:25):
the NBA. And I'm sure that Tibbs had to sign
off on the Carl Anthony Towns trade. Hey, but remember
Karl Anthony Towns was also a Leon Rose client. So
the guy running the Knicks used to be an agent
and a good one, and he's a good dude. I
don't know. I'm not somebody who he was. He didn't
(06:46):
rep me, but he w rerepped friends of mine, and
everybody's like, he's a really good dude. I believe that.
But this is choosing. It appears choosing Tibbs over choosing
the player have been catching a beating because he doesn't
play much defense, doesn't appear in great shape, and he
took some bad shots, especially in that last game. Jaden
(07:08):
Bruns did to taken a little bit of beating. How
many times had people said, hey, he's not good enough
to be your best player win a championship with and
we can And there'll be people who say, and this
is not inaccurate. It is accurate that they only beat
the Celtics when the Celtics' best player got hurt, But
(07:28):
they were beating the Celtics regardless of that. Now they
had to come from twenty down. I just it feels
like a complete buzzkill to anyone trying to, as I
have done, put a positive note and thought on the
next season. The Knicks had a successful season. They won
fifty one games, they got into the conference finals, they
(07:50):
got the game six of the conference finals. Now that's
judging result. Process wise, gotten better and better and better
they the roster, the best players bought in. Will he
win you a champion? With a coach win you a championship?
He's never gotten past the conference finals. I understand that,
(08:10):
but unless you're bringing in a proven guy who's won
conference championships and gotten to an NBA Finals and won
a conference championship, what are you actually doing? And it
shows a continuing loyalty to the players above that of
the coaches, above that of the coaches. It does feel
like Leon Rose is one listening to fans and then
(08:32):
maybe maybe listening to Karl Anthony Towns, who's this former client,
and because he was taking such a beating in the media,
now this takes the blame off of his shoulders. It
puts the blame squarely on TIBs for losing that last series.
Whatever they say, it doesn't actually matter. Reality of it
(08:52):
is when you lose the series in the conference finals,
the furthest the Knicks had gotten in twenty five years,
especially the way and list of the lost game one,
and the first change you make to is that of
the head coach. You're blaming him for the losses. And
again I don't think it's fair, but I'm not going
to lead with the well, it's not fair. Life's not fair.
Coaching is not fair. It's a great job, a terrible profess.
(09:16):
It's a great profession, a terrible job, because you can
have an incredibly successful year and turn around everything within
the franchise and they just don't think you're good enough
to get them over the hump and they move on.
The shams tweet was the Knicks were leaving Tom Thibodau
of his duties as head coach. Sources this tele ESPN.
(09:36):
TIBs led the Knicks to the first Eastern Conference Finals
in twenty five years, made the playoffs four or five years,
led the Knicks toif consecutive fifty plus wins season for
the first time since the nineties. The Knicks are singularly
focused in the pursuit of a championship and believe a
new voice will serve as the focus for the organization's
next step. Starts Is said. After five seasons with the Knicks,
Tom Thibdau is out as head coach. I can only
(09:58):
think of one guy who has not one NBA championship
who you should call, right You would think it'd be
Jay Wright because he's coached, you know, two NCAA championship
teams because he's a Philly obviously not New York, but
(10:24):
respect he's incredibly respected. You got three Vanila Villanova Wildcats.
Uh and I think Mike Malone is probably the other guy.
You could only hire somebody who's won championships. If you're
going to fire Tom Tibodeau, only do it because otherwise,
like what are we doing?
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It's that Gottleib Show, Fox Sports Radio. I hope you're
having a great day, better day than Tom Thibodeau fired
by the New York neckt scepter, taking the Knicks to
the Eastern Conference finals first time in twenty five years.
More on that to come, plus John and o'coff joins
us in six minutes six minutes. I want to play
for you something. So a lot of talk, obviously about
the Browns their quarterback situation. You know, you bring in
(11:14):
a former starter in Kenny Pickett, you got Joe Flacco,
you decide not to draft one of the first round
and said you wait to the third running draft. Dylan Gabriel,
who feels like, you know, he's literally he's not crazy athletic,
but he can make some plays. He feels like a
great dude back up. Maybe you can get away with
him if you surround him with Town as a starter.
(11:35):
I don't know. Then they draft Shador Sanders in the
fifth round, and suddenly, wow, you have a weird plus.
You have Deshaun Watson who's still under contract and we
worked his contract coming off of a twice torn Achilles tenant.
Here's Kevin Sevanski, their head coach.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
Those guys are doing great.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
They are both wired to get in early, get stay late,
put in.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Whatever work is required.
Speaker 6 (11:57):
There's sponges in the meeting room with I think is
really fun for me and my vantage point. I got
to sit there and watch the two young guys look
over and there's Joe forty years old, one super Bowl.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
There's Kenny Pickett just going.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
Into year four, but first round draft pick that's been
on a couple teams, won a Super Bowl last year.
There's Deshaun had a ton of success in his career.
They can kind of feed off of all those guys.
So that's the thing. I'm really it's fun for me
to watch them get better sometimes just by listening.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, yeah, it's fine, you can get better just by listening.
But it's gonna take some sort of bold, decisive action
in order to figure this thing out. Is it not.
Speaker 7 (12:39):
Right?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
It feels like it's going to take some sort of
bold decisive action, and it feels fairly obvious. The owner
drafted Shador Sanders and yeah, I mean, I don't know
what you do. I don't know how you do it.
(13:00):
Stefanski's offense is kind of a run based offense. I
don't think they're gonna be particularly good anyway. Miles Garrett,
remember he took all that money in the offseason with
a new contract, and well, I just I wanted to
see how we're gonna win. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sure
that's what it was. You know, we can't say an
(13:20):
organization is really well run if we don't have organizations
that are not really well run. And if you want
one that's not really well run, I give you the
Cleveland Browns because either way, either you're drafted a third
round pick to get cut or a fifth round pick
that you didn't need or maybe both, but it just
(13:41):
seems like a really hard to manage situation. For over
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Speaker 8 (13:56):
Three and one to Trot runners at first and second,
two runs in, nobody out swings a sense a drive
out to left center field.
Speaker 6 (14:03):
Yeah, baby, get down, one up.
Speaker 8 (14:06):
But for the monster, Mike Trout's tenth of the year.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, that one went three hundred and forty five feet
Is that what it was? Or or four hundred, four
hundred forty five feet an absolute monster if you didn't know.
Mike Trot is back playing baseball, which means the Angels
are going to tease this for another couple of weeks
and then they're going to go back to the dildrums
of last place where they belong. I'm just kidding. I'm
an Angel fanom jaded. How do you think the Browns
(14:32):
thing goes down?
Speaker 8 (14:34):
Well, I think it's pretty clear that Flacco is going
to be the quarterback week one, and you know they
can manipulate the reps right now and even in training
camp because he's been there before, he knows the scheme.
But I think that you know, given that two years
ago he was a huge reason that they were in
the playoffs, that he has equity built up with some
of their older veteran guys that have been on the
(14:56):
team for a while, So I think you have to
do that. I also think, and you know this, I
mean as a coach, you know when you bring in
a guy and you want the guy that there's some
level of connection and pretty clearly like they liked the
Dylan Gabriel And my theory from the jump was that
the owner made them draft to Door Sanders because it
(15:17):
doesn't you know, it's one thing, you know, the way
the story played out RG three, they never wanted RG three.
The owner made them do it, and then they took
Cousins in the fourth. But like a first and fourth
round quarterback not I mean, we've seen like, that's not
the craziest thing, I guess, even though it's pretty unprecedented,
the third and fifth is insane, right, you would never
(15:37):
take a quarterback, because if you're taking a guy pass
like the top fifty picks, you're viewing him as a backup.
So to take two backup quarterbacks just doesn't make much sense.
So I think they're gonna, you know, I don't want
to say rig it, but like he's gonna get the
first opportunity. I think I just saw before I hopped
on with you a headline that Chadors listed, you know,
(15:58):
as the four string quarterback. But you know, players know,
so if you make plays in camp, earn respect, you know.
It's it's a meritocracy based sport. Like it's hard to
be good and still not get any runs. So if
he plays better, like he'll he'll kind of move up
the depth chart.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
During August Stut Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio,
that's the voice of John Middlcoff, I said this early
in the week, and I believe to be true. We
don't know, but the Steelers have to know what Aaron
Rodgers is doing, right, Like, they can't be sitting there
waiting wondering, can they unless.
Speaker 8 (16:39):
They're like their backup plan would be cousins. Though, you know,
when you look at Arthur Smith, you know, you had
success with Tanny Hill, who was a mobile guy, and
even last year with the two guys mobility des been ridder.
You know, not a good player, but he's a mobile player.
I think they had signed Mariota, who he'd obviously worked
(17:01):
with in Tennessee. So I don't know if Cousins makes
sense there. But that's the only because at this point
in time to just basically give Aaron the spring off,
which doesn't matter that much for a lot of guys
like Miles Garrett, for example, went to Japan with his girlfriend.
My thought on that was like, yeah, Miles Garrett didn't
want to be in Cleveland. They paid him so much
(17:23):
money he couldn't say no. But it doesn't change the
fact that he doesn't want to be there. But regardless,
like Miles Garrett get fifteen sacked, whether it shows up
in the spring or not, because he knows the scheme,
he's done with the coaches. Aaron Rodgers doesn't know of
these people, he's never It's the one thing that's you know,
Arthur Smith seven years in Green Bay when he was there,
that's not the cap It was in Tennessee all the time.
So bizarre situation it shows you, you know, the Steelers,
(17:45):
that they have just gotten to this weird mode and
let's once you have a Hall of Fame level quarterback
retire even though, like you know, Ben, remember he ripped
up his elbow, it wasn't even quite the same in
the last couple of years, but they just have had
no back a plan and now they're in this position
where it's like they're also in a division with two
guys that look like first ballot Hall of Famers in
(18:07):
Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson the peak of their powers,
so it could get really ugly really fast. For the Feelers,
it feels like it's going to be weird no matter what.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Right, it does feel like it's going to be weird.
If they don't have Aaron Rodgers, I don't see how they.
Speaker 8 (18:21):
Win, and if they maybe they'd be in trouble.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
And if they do have Aaron Rodgers, I still not
convinced that that's you know, he doesn't have a lot
of time with these guys. It's not gonna be the
same system. And it wasn't like he was great all
year last year anyway.
Speaker 8 (18:36):
So.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
It's a weird one to me. It's super super super
super weird one to me, Okay, uh, we haven't discussed.
I don't think we've talked since the brock Purty deal.
So how much does this handicap him handicap them in
terms of putting talent around brock.
Speaker 8 (18:56):
Perty Well, I think they have two examples in their
conference with two guys that aren't viewed as top five
quarterbacks but one guy just wanted to Super Bowl and
Jalen Hurst and the other guys you know, resurrect his
career and become a really good player, and Jared Goff.
So they play unloaded, especially offenses right to a lead
offensive lines, high paid skill guys all around him, especially
(19:18):
Jalen I mean that the amount of money they've invested
in a j. Brown, DeVante Smith, I mean Godard had
to take a pay cut he was making so much money.
Sakuon gets a huge contract. All the offensive linemen except
like one makes big money and they've figured it out.
So I actually think, like Rockberdy liked those guys, has
proven if you do a good job around him, you
can compete, and they weren't going to move off of them.
(19:41):
So I know that was a conversation, but like he's
going to be their quarterback before they signed this contract.
The pressure now is on Kyle and John to do
a really good job. And you know they paying Robert Sola.
You know, I think you know it's hard because this
is not public information, but we're on the street. Is
he's right there with San Joe's the highest paid defense
cos sinator in the league. And it's proven, like he
(20:02):
is a good defensive coordinator. You just get Huff who
he's worked with ten sacks. You draft a guy really high,
like these guys got to produce and they got to
be good. So to me, like pretty is what he is.
He's a good player when he's got talent around him,
just like Jared Goffin, just like Jalen Hurts that the
pressure now is on the coaching staff in the GM
because at the end of the day, where I get
Purty some credit, he could have really made it weirder
(20:25):
and demanded more. I mean, he got fifty million less
in total guarantees than Dak Prescott, and I think most
people would argue they're pretty similar operators, right party's and
they had the better moments than when the lights are
the brightest in the NFC playoffs, So you know, Dak
like Dak, like thirty they make a lot of money
off the field because of the brands they played for,
(20:46):
and perty was pretty easy to play ball with. The
Dak clearly has proven that he's not and he's going
to take every penny like he's Peyton Manning or something.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yeah, it's it's a bay.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
Also, you know the obviously mikeah Parks is going to
get a huge contract and more than likely it'll come
late August. My theory, Doug is like Jerry because you
have to get these huge signing bonuses now that it's
like he doesn't want to take the money out of
wherever he has invested in a market or something to
the last possible seconds, because it's kind of like rinsewash repeat,
(21:19):
contract in the middle or the end of August with
so many of these teams just kind of do them
now and just kind of get them out of the way.
And it just feels like as long as Jerry's around,
they're just going to do business. Like but what's the
point if you're not going to trade him or whatever.
Just give him the amount of money that he inevitably
is going to get right now.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Forgive me if I didn't know about Frank Ragnow potentially
retiring caught me as a surprise. Is it considered a
surprise in the business.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
Yeah, I mean I would be a little stunned. I
haven't seen the quotes. I don't know if Dan Campbell
talks today or tomorrow or some of their coaches. Dude,
you know, at practice. But I'd be a little stunned
they didn't have knowledge. You know, a guy like that,
I would imagine as a pretty good relationship with Dan
Campbell and they would have some knowledge. I do think
when you see his quotes, like he talks about the pain,
(22:12):
and you know some of the worries he has, like
I think an underrated part about football players, even as
the game quote unquote has gotten softer and the trenches
is still pretty physical. And you know, this guy was
first round pick. I think when he signed his contract
extension highest States center, he was one of the better
offensive linemen in the league. And you don't become one
(22:34):
of the better offensive line in the league if you're
not just a tough SOB and you love football. So
I can't imagine he was in a lot of pain.
And I see no scenario where the Lions don't have
some knowledge of that now. I also think, you know,
with centers are really important. And when you have a
Jason Kelsey, a rag Now, a guy like that, you know,
(22:55):
Alex Mack when he was damn good. I mean, there
have been players in that position. It is probably the
most replaceable of Like if Trent Williams disappears or you
know whoever Lane Johnson disappears, is usually a pretty big
drop off. Who your backup is at center. The drop
off can be much more marginal because you have two
guards to help him out and you kind of manipulate it.
(23:17):
So it's it's not the end of the it wouldn't
be like Pina Seol retired. It's not. It's not as
punitive that way.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I would say, Yeah, but.
Speaker 8 (23:26):
It's it's not idea you wouldn't choose.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
No, it's again, if it was the only thing changing
about the Detroit Lions, no big deal. But when you
lose both your coordinators some other personnel and now you
lose your center, it feels like a bigger deal. That's
really more my point.
Speaker 8 (23:45):
I think where they benefit is, you know, if Dan
Campbell truly is you know what he's proven to be
through a short period of time, you know, a Tomlin
Harbough brother like kind of figure. They also been a
bit while they're to Vision is stacked and loadedsn't got
a lot of questions with the Bears and the quarterback
situation with the with the guy that's never been a
(24:07):
head coach, you know, the Vikings, their quarterback situation regardless
how often their roster is is more than a question.
And the Packers are just we just know are going
to be solid, but it's not well. The division is daunting.
There are some questions with the people you have to
go through, and Detroit's already proven, at least with their
players and their head coach, that they can tackle. It's right.
(24:30):
I wouldn't sell as Alliance stockholder. I still feel pretty
confident they're going to be damn good in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
John Mitalcoff's our guest here on the Doug Gottlieb Show
on Fox Sports Radio. Yeah, I'm I'm I don't know
what they're going to be like. You know, I just
know as good as Philadelphia was when they lost last
time they lost a coordinator, they were they looked like
a mess. You know, they look like a mess, and
now you start talking about losing important pieces in the
offensive side as well. It's just it's going to at
(25:02):
minimum be interesting to track what that looks like. The CJ.
Stroud has a sore shoulder. I only bring it up
because he had a tough year last year. And which
CJ Shroud do you expect to see this year you're
one or a year two?
Speaker 8 (25:23):
Well, I'll be honest, I don't think it's not a
big deal. You know, I would say that it is.
When I saw that headline, I went whoa new coordinator?
Like you said, the offense underwhelmed? He you know, it
looked like after year one, like this guy was going
to be a franchise quarterback, a guy top five player
in the league. Those type guys get huge contracts after
(25:44):
the third year, right Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar technically didn't.
Fay had to battle it out, but Joe Burrow and
it looked like CG after the first year. Then last
year you're like, what and now he can't throw? Like listen,
okas now relative to what they used to be ten, fifteen,
thirty years ago, are pretty easy, but they are important
(26:05):
just to just get the timing down with some of
your wide receivers, especially when you're installing just new offensive philosophies,
even if they are carrying over offensive philosophies from coordinator
to coordinator, just getting on the same page with the guys.
So clearly a shoulder is not feeling great. Like how
many other quarterbacks in the NFL from the home from
Lamar to Josh to anyone so Kyler Murray that are
(26:28):
at practice aren't able to throw on June whatever the
day is today, the second or third. That's a little alarm.
I just think that's something to kind of keep a
closed eye on. I just don't think it's nothing. Do you.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
I don't either, But again I don't know. And then
and then I'm wondering. I'm just wondering what happened to him?
THENU factoring a sore shoulder, and now I'm really I
am concerned. But again, I mean.
Speaker 8 (26:56):
They just last year, you know, I mean, I little
like what the Knicks just did. It's it's always easier
to just blame everything on a coach, right, and they
blamed everything on the offensive coordinator. It was his fault,
even though a year ago it's like c J. Stroud,
like the greatest rookie season since like Marino, like so, which,
so this guy just forgot how to coach the next year,
Like it's Tom Thibodeau just a bad defensive coach or
(27:18):
his two best players bad at defense? You know, it's
like it's c J. Strout just was he overwhelmed? Was
their offensive line personnel awful? Uh? So? I you know,
I think that's still a major question mark now, the
one thing they got going for him. You know, they
don't exactly play you know, murders row as a division, right,
So I think the Jags have a lot of question marks.
(27:39):
The Titans just I mean, they're gonna have a rookie
quarterback and they're gonna have some growing pains, So I
I would say that. And the Colts. I mean, if
I was a betting man right now, I'd say Daniel
Jones is probably gonna be their starting quarterback. So that's
that's not ideal. Uh So, I do think that that
benefits the Texans greatly. Who it and listen, I it's
a coaching quarterback sport. I think some questions marks with
(28:02):
a quarterback. But I do think Demiko is just a
pretty big stut so I've been a believer in Dimiko
Ryance for a long time.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I you and me are an agreement about Demiico Ryans, Doug
Gotlieb Show, Fox Sports Tridio, John Midlcoff's our guest H
three and Out is The podcast is available in the
Volume podcast network. Where are You in the Jordan Love
took a step back conversation last year.
Speaker 8 (28:28):
I just think they were in a tough predicament, right,
he was so deep into his rookie contract and he
has the eight games, Like in a perfect world, would
they want to give him a contract then, of course not,
but they were kind of stuck. I just think you
never know with a player, Like part of being a
great player is not having a great season, right, Like
(28:49):
what makes Derek Henry's career so incredibly He's been doing
it for a long time now, you know, Peyton Manning,
Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, whoever. So you just never truly know.
And once you have have more tape on a guy
that had never really played, people can attack you a
little differently. Then you get injured. How do you battle
through injuries? I still am a believer because I just
(29:09):
believe in the operation. I mean that the Green Bay
Packers have proven it for a long time. I think
their coach knows what he's doing. I think their team
is as talented. But I like, if you said, gun
to my head, is Jordan Love going to rattle off
Pro Bowls or be a guy that's viewed as disappointing
in the next couple of years, I think it would
(29:31):
be hard to make a prediction. And I think he's
probably one of the bigger question marks going into because
what he did down the stretch and even in that
playoff game against the Cowboys, like he kind of looked
like Aaron Rodgers. And then I think sometimes like last year,
he did get injured in the first game of the
season and it just kind of derailed his It just
wasn't quite the same. So I believe I'm the high
(29:54):
end traits talent guy, especially when they've proven like he's
shown me can make throws from the pop, I can
redefense and stuff. But like, it's it's hard to have.
It's hard to be a player that just every year
you know is gonna be like I don't know. I mean,
look at the top guys like what makes Lamar, Joe Burrow,
Josh Allen Mahomes, like every year, you know, you're just
(30:15):
guys gonna play winning football at a high level, And
I think that's what's hard and separates players. So I
think if you're a Packer fan, you're like cautiously optimistic.
But it's like a pretty big year for him, especially
because they when they go one in five in the division,
they still won eleven games.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
So to what if five I needed a Bears doint
field goal to get that one win.
Speaker 8 (30:40):
Yeah, so I maybe I'm too bullish on him, but
I'm probably I might end up picking them to win
the division because you tell me, they went one in
five and won eleven games, So what if they just
go three and three? You know, are they a twelve
or thirteen win team in twenty twenty five? I'd have
to bring up their schedule. But I mean, schedule is
always hard because of the division they play in, and
(31:00):
I think that division schedule this year. I remember looking
at the Bears and Lions. It's not going to be easy.
So did they played the I think they played the
NFC East in the AFC North, right, is that what
the A division plays? Yes, it's gonna be chalenty.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
John great stuff. As always, man, thanks for being our guests.
We appreciate. It's Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
UH news today continues to be Tom Thibodeau was fired
as the head coach of the New York Knicks, and that,
of course was John Mindocoff. Three and Out is is
the podcast, the NFL focused podcast. Come on next live
(31:37):
on The Doug Gottlieb Show. Who are the most important
players in the upcoming NBA Finals. I'll share my thoughts next.
Speaker 5 (31:43):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
It's Doug Gotleb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. Okay,
we got some browny news up coming top of the hour.
I know you love your Bronny news. You're like, oh,
Bronny news. And the one only ice Cube is gonna
be joining us next hour, talking some Big three hoops
with the founder of the music movie artist rap Icon,
co founder and current CEO of the Big Three Professional
(32:14):
three and three League ice Cube. Next hour on the show,
Let's get to a game with Monty Blagnias.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
This is game time on The Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Well, that's what's the game today.
Speaker 7 (32:31):
We are playing Rankum, that's right, coach, So you're gonna
be ranking a variety of things today, and we're gonna
start in the NBA, just with the breaking news of
the Knicks letting go, relieving Tom Thibodeau of his head
coaching duties after five years. So, coach, why don't you
rank the three best available coaches to take over the next.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Okay? Yeah, I would say putting you on the spot. No,
that's fine, that's fine. Three best coaches. Number three is
jeff En Gundy. Okay, okay, back in the league. Is assistant,
did a great job. Number two is Jay Wright Jr.
(33:19):
One championships. He has won two NCAA championships and he's
coached those guys. And then number one is Mike Malone.
Mike maloneye okay, one NBA championship, has that hard edge.
His dad, Brendan Malone, worked for the Knicks as well
as the Pistons are in the Bad Boy Pistons. Yeah,
I'd go Mike Malone one.
Speaker 7 (33:38):
Dan Hurley not on the list.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Um, I think we'd Dan be great, you know that
would be interesting.
Speaker 7 (33:48):
Yeah, probably four, probably four, So on the short list,
but not in the three. Okay, all right, all right,
I like that.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
All right, Let's move on.
Speaker 7 (33:56):
Staying here in the NBA, coach outside of j Gilga,
Alexander and Tyrese Halliburton ranked the top three most important
players in the upcoming NBA Finals, which starts Game one
on Thursday. Outside of who outside of the two big
(34:18):
guards Shay gil just Alexander and Tyrese Halliburton.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Uh, outside of the two big guards, shake gils, who
are the most important players? Okay?
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Just the top three.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Alex Cruso three, okay, Pascal Siakam two and jal Jalen
Williams one. Yeah.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
I think Jalen Williams.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Is a j dove Jaalen Williams. There's two Jayla Williams
in the same.
Speaker 7 (34:47):
Right, right, right, right, all right, but I agree with
you on that one, coach. All right, Let's move on
here to the NFL rank the top three Browns quarterbacks
to be on the opening day depth chart this season,
since right now, how they have five hop.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Three Browns quarterbacks to be on the opening day So
ranked the top three quarterback Okay, I have to be
in the Browns.
Speaker 7 (35:06):
Depth chart, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Uh, I'll do Joe flat Okay, So I'll do Shadore
Sanders three, sure, easy, not easy, Kenny pick it two,
and Joe Flaco one.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
All right, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
I like that?
Speaker 5 (35:25):
All right?
Speaker 7 (35:26):
Moving on here, let's head to baseball. Why not rank
the three worst Major League Baseball teams right now? Oh,
there's some bad ones. Yeah, yeah, there's some there's some
bad ones.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Like, hey, guys, we can't all tank it once. That
doesn't work, right, that doesn't that doesn't work. What's interesting
is like, I don't think the Orioles are that bad,
but that thing fell apart really quickly so fast. Rock
Rockies are one, you know, and White Sox are two.
Speaker 7 (35:58):
Okay, okay, you got a couple options for that third one?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah I do. I'm when I get the Pirates of
the A's, I'm gonna go with the Pirates.
Speaker 7 (36:10):
With the Pirates, yeah, it's like you want I want
them to be good for Paul Schemes good.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, no they're not.
Speaker 7 (36:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
All right.
Speaker 7 (36:19):
Uh, let's let's how about this one coach out of
the normal big you know, sports events, super Bowl, NBA Finals,
World Series, Stanley Cup, World Cup. How about you rank
these three sporting events Wimbledon, the Masters and Tour de France.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
Wimbledon, Master's Tour Defronce. Huh, Masters, Tour de France, Master's fronts.
Uh this just for me personally, Yeah, yeah, Tour de
Front's three Masters to Wimbledon one.
Speaker 7 (36:56):
All right, that's actually how I wrote it down for me.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
So I was c yeah, are on, why do you
have Why do you have Wimbledon ahead of the Masters.
Speaker 7 (37:04):
So I feel like I would enjoy the competitiveness a
little bit to meet golf. I'm not gonna lie. It
seems it's a little slow for me. So I just
think I would enjoy watching tennis more than I would
enjoy watching golf at the Masters, even though the Master
seems like you have to check it off the list.
I want to go buy all that food for what
(37:25):
fifty seven dollars? Yeah, but Wimbledon, where all white have
a more highly maybe competitive, and just it's see, you know,
back and forth versus slow pace. Uh.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah, that's how it is.
Speaker 7 (37:42):
Just for me.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I just think again, I love the Masters, and I
know that that golfers regard the Masters as that's the
one that's the one. Yeah, Whereas I do think that
the US Open is right there with Wimbledon. Really, I
just think Wimbledon is such great pomp, circumstance, so unique,
such an incredible setting. I don't know that that's why
(38:04):
I do it anyway. That's uh, that's game time.
Speaker 5 (38:06):
Yeah, this is game time on the Dog Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Okay, coming up next to The Doug Gottlieb Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. Wait to hear what one NBA
executive said about his expectations for Brownie James next year
with the Lakers. I want to hear it. It's next
on Fox Sports Radio.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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