July 10, 2025 • 37 mins
Doug addresses the news that the NFL Owners and union head reportedly agreed to a non-disclosure over findings that might have made them look bad, and Doug shares his main takeaway. NFL Analyst John Middlekauff joins for his weekly hit to talk about the NFL-Union story, Kirk Cousins and all of the headlines around the NFL. Plus, Dan Beyer takes Doug through a game of "I Feel A Draft".
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
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Doug Gottlieb Show, Fue Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Doo Doo Doo doo do do dude? Hey, welcome in.
It's the DG Show.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
My man Dan Byer's back from guest hosting other shows.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The whole crew is here. We're excited to have you.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's a Thursday, which means we got don't call it
a throwback Thursday does mean we missed our Wednesday midway,
which I love and I had it. I know you
guys did it. I didn't do it because I wasn't
here and I'm mad about it. I had a great midway.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
What did you guys do? The midway on Jase Too?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Damn Bayer came up with a great concept. I think
I think I will Sam after after it said that
was fun.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
A great job. Yeah, it was a great job.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
What was it?
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Hold on, hold on great?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You don't even.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Remember exciting plays in sports? Off the heels of the
inside the park, home run, walking off great, Yeah, that
we had on Tuesday night. What are the most exciting
plays in all of sports?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
That's funny. That was not at all where I was
going with it. I was not in any way it
was where I was going with it. I mean really,
I was going somewhere where trying to figure out if
I was thinking about travel for the summer, would you
rather do be a tourist, stay at hotels, maybe move
around hotels, or would you rather do the verbo airbnb
(01:53):
thing where then you just stayed a place for a
week and you become like a Greek citizen for a week,
which is more your stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But we'll have to pocket that one for next week.
For next week.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Anyway, we got a great show for you this just
in that you may that you may have heard Jalen
Williams signs an extension, so the with the champion Oklahoma
City Thunder. So now the Big three for the Thunder
Thunder on the hook for somewhere in the neighborhood of
eight hundred and fifty million dollars between three players over
the next however many years those max contracts, right, is
(02:27):
that those numbers are obscene, and you know, I the thunder,
I'm sure, I feel like this is what we have
to do. We have to keep these three guys and
then all the other ancillary parts. We do the best
we can, and if not, we'll use those draft picks
to kind of manipulate and get the best young players
we can. So those extensions I don't think going to
(02:49):
effect for another year, so they're still able to add
some pieces and do some cute math. But eventually you
get to the place where if any three of those
players get hurt, now you're where the where the Celtics
are where you got to think, okay, we can't really
truly compete at the top of the league that particular year.
(03:11):
But let's get to this kind of a weird story
of the week. Ah, Pablo Torre and Mike Florio And
again Pablo is he's very smart. He went to Harvard
just you know, like anybody. If you want to know
how he went to Harvard, wait, they'll tell you or
(03:33):
they'll wear a Harvard sweatshirt. But super bright guys. Mike
is a lawyer, and so somehow they got this information
that there was an alleged a collusion between owners and
the commissioner to have occurred after the Deshaun Watson contract
was signed and that trade was agreed to, while no
(03:58):
collusion was found and there was no case against them.
Now it's been discovered there was a secret agreement between
the head of the players union and Roger Goodell. And
as you may have heard if you were listening to
Dan Byer and his update, there is now a growing
petition by NFL players to get the head of the
union to resign under pressure. I think the problem with
(04:22):
it is we don't know, like so he's got to
resign because there's collusion, but it wasn't deemed to be
collusion by uh by an investigation, but it was boardline
and borderline inappropriate. And so there was some sort of agreement,
(04:43):
secret agreement which is no longer secret, which was in place,
and because it was kept secret from the players, then
the union head muscow right buyer. That's how I that's
how I I read this thing. You know again, My
thing is this again a bit of a maa coopa
(05:04):
with Pablo and with Florio because they've been all over
this thing. But I also think that there's a world
where any of us who were in real time, in
real time discussing the Deshaun Watson fully guaranteed contract, we
all said, this is a bad idea. Again, And I
(05:26):
don't know the wording of any of these texts that
were sent or any discussions that were had, but the
reality is having fully multi year, fully guaranteed contracts for
NFL players would be an.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Absolute abject disaster.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It's hard enough in the NBA, consider that in football
you just don't have that grade of a window and
you're literally one play away from never having a career
or walking again. It just it doesn't feel like it's
collusion to go, hey, guys, this might not be the
best idea to give a five year, guaranteed, no cut
(06:04):
contract to somebody who's accused of sexual assault forty times
plus and oh yeah, by the way, he suffered two
ACL injuries in his life and now you know at
the end of that contract they've had to redo it
because you can't get out of it. And he suffered
too Achilles tenantaries like this stuff and by the way,
not that good. So this is not be being pro
(06:29):
owner or pro player. I don't have it by head
in the sand. Again, it's just really hard to decipher,
like we're making a big deal and accusing the owners
and Goodell of collusion when it was reviewed and it
did not meet the pre preponderance of evidence that would
have taken to go to trial. So there is no
(06:52):
true collusion, even if there's some borderline stuff there and
they you know, they pushed their oh yeah, by the way,
in the time since that deal while there has and
that wasn't the first ever fully guaranteed contract. Kirk Cousins
had a fully guaranteed contract. It was only for three years,
and that's what players are gonna end up running into, right.
(07:16):
There has to be a balance there, and if if
Pablo Torre and Mike Florio aren't willing to admit that,
there has to be lessons learned by NFL teams from
the disaster, which is the Deshaun Watson contract. That is,
anyone who will this is this reminds me by the
(07:37):
way of when uh Durell Revis was with the Jets
and ultimately got traded. I think he had traded to
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and what happened was the Jets
were telling Durell Rivas, we think you're the best cornerback
in the league.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So he held out.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
He's like, fine, I need to be paid like the
best cornerback in the league, like Namdi ASMOI Namdias. Well,
I made sixteen million at the time, the next highest
paid cornerback was twelve million dollars per year. And my
point then, which is my point now, is you're gonna
use that as an example, Hey, you gotta pay me
sixteen million. Well, it was a terrible contract. Why would
(08:14):
I mimic a terrible contract? And if I'm an NFL owner,
I would say the same thing about Deshaun Watson. Why
would I minmic one of the worst, if not the
worst contract in the history of sports.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Explain that to me, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And if Roger Goodell is reiterating like this is not
good for business, I don't know how you defend the
Deshaun Watson contract.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I just do not.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So I'm not pro owner, I'm not anti player. And
in the time since the Deshaun Watson contract, the guarantees
have continued to go up. The money has continued to
go up. And if there was collusion. They're doing a
terrible job of it, terrible job of buyer. Did I
(09:08):
read these things incorrectly in terms of we don't totally know,
We don't know what Goodell or owners are alleged to
have said. We only know what they were accused of collusion,
and it did not read the threat and did not
meet the threshold for a lawsuit going forward. Yet there
(09:28):
is this clandestine meeting between NFLBA and NFL that was
agreed to, which's like, hey, this is not a great look,
let's not discuss it.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Here's some sort of agreement.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Yeah, and Doug I had to step away just because
of the Jalen Williams news, so I didn't hear your
whole piece about it. I feel that the Players Association,
in the group of players are up in arms a
hundred times more than probably anybody else should be in
terms of or anybody else is in wondering why was
(10:02):
this hidden? Why do the owners collude? And then now
why is their executive director of other ties to other places?
I think everybody health actually probably would fall in line
with the owners not saying that players shouldn't make as
much as they want, but that do we really want
(10:23):
teams to be giving fully guaranteed contracts that could handcuff
them in future years if it doesn't work out like
it did with the Cleveland Browns. And so I think
that I think that the players have every right to
be mad. I just don't know if there's going to
be enough people to support what the players did or
what the players are mad about. Considering it did seem
(10:46):
that the owners did collude, but I think that colluding
on that certain topic is probably best overall for the league.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I agree with you. Again, there's a there's a
gray area between outright collusion, okay, and discussing what's smart business. Right, Yes,
there's a gray area, and I feel like this has
(11:16):
to have fallen into that gray area, which is really
the which is why there was no lawsuit. So again,
if I'm wrong, and if we read the text and
it's like, hey, by all means don't give them guaranteed contracts,
suppress there. But if that wording was in there, there
would be a lawsuit. There's not, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, I think I also think that, and I am
not as well versed, so this is just an amateur guess,
but I would also think that the reason why the
NFLPA didn't go public with this is because they thought
maybe down the road that if he did have guaranteed contracts,
it would hurt a portion of their union, maybe not
the top end guys. And it's kind of what makes
(11:59):
the end it is what makes the NFL's union so weak,
is that there's such a disparity between the top end
guys and everybody else.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, they call those guys, they call everybody else the
rank and file. Yes, right, So the rank and file
needs to collect checks for as long as they can
collect checks for because their checks are not what the
quarterbacks are, the wide receivers are, the defensive ends are.
You know, the guys we talk about are the guys
they're gonna make so much money that yeah, maybe they
(12:29):
make a couple million dollars less, but it's not gonna
affect them. The guys we don't talk about the offense
of the other you know, the backup tackles, you know,
the backup running backs, the fifth wide receiver, the nickel corner,
like those are the guys that are just as important
to the union. Any union is like that, right. That's
(12:51):
that's the part that people don't realize about unions. Unions
have to think of the rank and file first, operating
under the idea that whoever's at the very top of
the food chain, they're good. And if you're going to
sacrifice anything, sacrifice that because it's just a numbers game, right,
This is a numbers game.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
If you're paying the top end guys, it seems like, okay, great,
but someone ends up having to take a hit on
the other end. And I believe in the most recent
CBA a lot of middle guys who could spend six
or seven years in the league are gone because it's
just easier to go with the twenty two to twenty
(13:33):
three year old rookie at that price. So I think
as the union, that would be my guess on why
it was kept quiet. And while yeah, the owners did this,
but if you started to allow guaranteed contracts for everybody,
then maybe you're pricing out a portion of your union.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Stuck Ott lip Show here on Fox Sports.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Just a guess.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Again, And my guess is that it's in that gray
area of what's good business what's not good business for
all of us. Let's look at the Deshaun Watson thing. Yeah,
as bad business, bad for business and we probably shouldn't
do that.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Again. I think it would have been easy for those teams,
Kyler Murray and the Cardinals, or easy for those agents
to ask for what Deshaun Watson got considering everything that,
all the baggage that came with him, and then it's
difficult to negotiate off of that. And Kyler Murray maybe
would have warranted it, maybe he would have been worthy
(14:37):
of it. And while it sucks for Kyler Murray, I
think there is a domino effect that it isn't good
for the National Football League and it isn't necessarily good
for fans. That's why I feel kind of the players
are a bit out on an island and all of
this as well, because I think parody is one of
the things that drives the NFL and now the ability
to turn things around quickly. And if you're saddled by
(14:58):
bad contracts because you have stupid owner, I don't know
if that's good for the overall portion of the league.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well, I also think you mentioned parody. I don't know
if it's as much about parody as much as I
do think that even though it's more perception than reality
in terms of players playing for their checks, and not
being guaranteed money.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Reality is NFL players are.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Guaranteed a substantial sum of their salary substantial sum, but
the perception is they're not, which I think makes them
somebody that we want to cheer for as as fans
as well. Hey, whereas NBA players they are fully guaranteed contracts,
(15:43):
there's a perception there of they don't have to play
hard because they're still.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Getting paid anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So I do think that there's some added other benefits
to having the perception not being up with the reality
in terms of guaranteed contracts.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Doug Gotlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. John metalcalffelll join us
after we get an update from Dan Byer. Coach Prime's
making some some waves and Dion's an interesting one man.
Like as much as I think everybody would expect him
(16:30):
to be, Hey, pay the players as much as they
can actually make. Uh, and then some just money, money, money, money, money.
The fact is, if you actually listen to many of
the things he says, whether they apply to Colorado or not.
It's about what we college coaches call the right things.
You know, guys have to earn things. Guys should stay
at their schools. A degree has a value to them,
(16:52):
and yeah, they should make some money. But like, let's
not go crazy here. A lot of these guys.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Are getting paid.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
For some that we hope they can do and it's
not true anil. Here's Dion talking about nil in college football.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
I wish it was a cat, you know, like the
top of the line player makes this, and if you're
not that type of guy, you know you're not gonna
make that. That's what the NFL does. So the problem
is you got a guy that's not that durn good,
but he could go to another school and they give
him a half a million dollars that you can't you
can't compete with that. That don't make sense. Say, all
you have to do is look at the playoffs and
see what those teams spent. And you understand, during the
(17:30):
white end the playoffs, it's kind of hard to compete
with somebody who's giving twenty five thirty million dollars of
during freshman class, right, It's crazy. The teams that pays
the more pays the most is gonna be then it.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I mean, he's right, you know, it's like, well, no, no,
he's right. I mean even Indiana, who I didn't think
should have been in the College Baball Playoff, they spent
a ton of money in order to get there in
terms of their personnel.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
The new.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Agreement is supposed to have a cap on spending twenty
two million dollars. And you know, I think thirteen of
it's supposed to go to college to football. But you
can also add in anil which is sometimes real sometimes
not nil. In college basketball. I got all but three
picks right, and I picked every game based upon who's
(18:25):
spent the most money.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So it is really the haves and the have nots.
And the part he didn't discuss is that the other
real world discussion that isn't at is, Hey, you do
realize that a lot of schools were going to lose
some Olympic sports because if you want to compete in
the revenue generating sports, that money is not coming. You're
(18:50):
not making tons of profit at Max schools, not making
tons of profit at all these other schools of football.
You're not making a huge money if you don't have football.
You're still trying to pay to play in basketball, women's basketball,
and potentially football. That means you're not going to be
able to fully fund properly Olympic sports. But he's just
(19:11):
talking about competitive balance, says it's lacking because there's no cap.
John Milcoffe joints just three and outs to the podcast.
He spent some time in Fresno State in college football
before moving on to the NFL before moving on to
becoming a star podcaster. What do you think of what
Dion said?
Speaker 7 (19:26):
Well, I followed that a lot of the comments pretty closely.
Kenny Dillingham had some two you know Texas Tech. You
know you're a got some big twelve roots. They have
that oil guy that's former players. They have spent big
time money. And Dellingham was saying yesterday like guys, be ready,
this team is gonna be really, really good. And essentially
(19:47):
what he's saying is like they broke the bank this
offseason when it came to football and they had arguably
the best transfer portal class. You know, you're in it now,
and I know it's different than like you know, Ohio State,
Michigan and Alabama, like recruiting and stuff football wise. But
whenever I see like this guy's a great recruiter, I
think that used to really matter, like ed Ojeron or
(20:10):
Coosh or some of these guys in football, especially like
when I was in high school or in college in
the two thousands, that there is no such thing as
a great recruiter anymore, Like are you paying the most money?
And like you said, even when the cap comes, like
in the NFL, if I'm giving whoever an extension TJ
Watt or Travis Kelcey or obviously the quarterbacks the whatever
(20:32):
they're gonna make State Farm or Chevy, and that has
nothing to do with anything with the team. Where if
Kirby Smart goes, well, hey what even once this gap comes,
I can pay you. Let's let's just take a number
five hundred thousand dollars with the cap, but I can
also get you half a million dollars in nil, like
he's part of that. Like the other schools don't have
(20:52):
that capabilia Ohio State. I mean, there's there's a group
of fifteen twenty that it's only going to continue to separate.
Now you could argue, you know, in college football, college
basketball could be a little random right because of the tournament,
where in football, on the aggregate of the season, typically
the same team's year and year out, give or take,
(21:12):
are competing. That that's only going to continue to separate.
But now it's so conference aligned because of the SEC
money and the Big ten TV money, the advantages they have,
They've always had advantages. Now it's only separated. Why Texas
Tech can even you know, dream of competing is because
they have I don't know their version, it's not quite
(21:34):
it's not apples apples, but like a Phil Knight or
you at Oklahoma State, like you have to have a
special individual with huge money to even be in the
conversation or else you really got no shot.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And recruiting, Recruiting does matter. Recruiting does matter. Okay, you
still have to connect with the kid. You have to
pay for them a vision. You're not They're not always going,
not all of them go to where the top dollar is.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I think again, high level football, high major football, high
major basketball a little different than what we're doing. But
you still are recruiting, and some of it is you
got to recruit at our level. Recruit guys you're not
going to get you know, like I'll just be honest
with you, John, I'm recruiting the top twenty kids the
class of twenty twenty six in the state of Wisconsin.
(22:28):
I'm recruiting all twenty top the ones I've evaluated is
the top twenty.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I'm recruiting all of them.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
There's only one that I've offered a scholarship to, and
I think he's a little bit above our level, but
I think this would be a level where he can
come in and play initially, and then I'm only going
to say I told him. I gave him till the
end of the July cycle. We offered him like almost
a year ago, and then after that, and now I'll
start offering because he's the guy I want to build around.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Like the recruiting class. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Point is, I know I'm not gonna get all of them.
I'm not going to offer all of them, but I
want them to get to know me, and I want
to get to know them that way. In a year,
in two years, in three years, when they hit the
transfer portal, which many of the high percentages are, then
there's already a relationship there and I already know if
I want him, if I don't want him. He already
knows if he likes me or doesn't like me.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So it does.
Speaker 7 (23:16):
And that was a big advantage for UCLA a couple
of years ago when Chip the two years ago, they
had a really solid defense. A lot of those guys
had transferred. They were from la you know, from Michigan
or whatever. It came home. So I totally understand what
you're talking. That's where you're right recruiting. But that's different, right,
You're like recruiting for their second recruiting cycle. It's just
(23:36):
a different world.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
It's a it's a totally different world. Let's get to
some of Let's get to the the collusion thing. Okay,
we don't know the details of it. And I do
know that because you got Florio, who is a lawyer,
uh and you have Pablo, who is you know, a
Harvard dude, brilliant like a lawyer that you know there's
(24:01):
something there. But there's a there's a fine line between, hey,
this is not good business to give to Shaun Watson
a five year guaranteed contract in this sport, especially and
outright collusion which is suppressing wages and limiting the guarantees.
What do you think really happened between the union and
(24:23):
the owners after Deshaun Watson signed his deal.
Speaker 7 (24:26):
Yeah, I mean to me, I read a couple of headlines.
I'm like, I don't really see anyone. To me, collusion
typically is someone getting royally screwed, and I didn't really
see anyone getting royally screwed here. The other thing is
like Tyler Murray, well, you know one of those texts
was like a good job, Michael on signing that deal. Well,
Kyler didn't have to sign the deal, right, no one
(24:47):
was forcing him. It was after his third year. He
could have played it out again, like, no one's forcing
any of these people to sign deals. And the other
thing when it comes, you know, specifically out of the
conversation was around the quarterbacks. How often new quarterbacks not
see like the majority of their contract. It's very very
rare that, you know. Russell Wilson is an example of
like got cut way short. Now his guaranteed money was
(25:08):
so high. He's still got a ton of money, But like,
did Tyler get screwed? Last time I checked, He's made
like a couple hundred million dollars the last three four years.
So it's like, I see everyone getting rich in this
business model and you've been through way more negotiations in
your life than me. I mean, isn't when I read
some of these conversations, Like my first talk was, you know,
(25:28):
my dad was a farmer for a long time. Dealt
with banks is not just called business, I mean, but
I just it'd be one thing if the wages or
something hadn't gone dramatically up. But from my advantage point,
it feels like everyone I would say that there's not
a business in the history of America that's created more
(25:49):
millionaires when coaches, players, obviously, owners, people involved, help people
on the outside, media members when it comes to football,
and business continues to just roll. So I to me,
it was it was more of like, yeah, this is
means nothing. I didn't do anything for me. But again,
I'm not those stories.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
I totally I totally agree that it's like we're chasing
something like oh, yeah, they're the bad guys. Like yeah,
I again, if you remember when Kyler Murray signed the
new deal, you know, it was after Kyler Murray had
been accused of playing call of duty too much?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Right, is this a guy we really want? And oh yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
But it was also if you remember coming off an
injury too, an't he?
Speaker 7 (26:34):
Uh No, I think he got injured the next year,
or maybe he did. I can't even remember, but it
was after a third year, like the first time you
can negotiate with a with the with the first rounders. Yeah,
and like they didn't have to do that like other quarterbacks.
Hel Lamar didn't get a contract then. But the other
thing is we act like kind of murder. Was the
number one overall pick, he had already signed like a
(26:55):
forty million dollar contract, then he got another two hundred
plus million dollar contract. I just don't think anyone on
the outside, mainly the consumer who usually drives a lot
of these, like if they're all into this, it's like, well,
who's who's really getting screwed here? And I think most
of us come to the conclusion that nobody really.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, yeah, it is the Dug Outlive Show. It is
Fox Sports Radio, Dallas Cowboys, Michaeh Parsons. You know, it
does feel like, you know, he's playing on the fifth
year option. What I mean, we all it's funny. Most
people think he'll be a free agentcy the end of
the year.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
He won't. They can franchise tag.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Him Jerry, of course, could have signed him last offseason,
did not, says he'd rather wait and pay more than
pay too much to a guy he doesn't want.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Where do you think we are with Parsons and the Cowboys?
Speaker 7 (27:47):
To me, that's super far about waiting and to pay more.
It's like seedy Lamb and Michael Parsons, Jerry where your
draft picks. You've been around these guys every day for
whatever five years. I mean, what's for you waiting? You've
seen them their entire career on and off the field.
He's been around him all the time, so it's like
kind of know what he is. To me, Micah is
like you're either breaking the bank for him or you
(28:08):
would trade him like the TJ. Watt hendrickson those older players.
That's just like complicated negotiation business. The Mica think's pretty simple.
Like the number is kind of his number, you know,
give or take, maybe a couple million you can argue over,
But like, why you know Micah Parson is going to
show up for training camp. I know he played good
(28:29):
copter and the off season, the spring ball, but recent
history would say guys in his shoes, you know, kind
of make it difficult you know, Nick Bosa, We've just
seen other guys. Now, we see a lot of teams
just sign the contract. I would say, give or take
some time between you know, post draft to right around
(28:52):
the next couple of weeks so they don't have to
deal with this drama. I think Jerry has a pretty
clear history of like, I'm gonna sign him like August
twenty eight, last possible second, So that would be my expectation.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, that's what he does, and it ends up giving
the guys a chance to take some time off of
training camp.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
I think I think the TJ. Watt things a little
more complicated. You know, these older guys, they have a
lot of wear and hair on them, but they're really
important and excellent players. Henderson TJ. Watt. You know, it's
in fairness to them. It's like they see the amount
of money other their quote unquote peers are getting and
it's like, well, if I were to shattered my leg,
(29:32):
and these negotiations are hard, Like I understand both sides,
and I don't think there's an easy answer to it.
It's like if you just break here, TJ. Watt, here's
another one hundred million dollars guaranteed or we just kind
of play, you know, a staring contest, you know, because
I think ste would probably have to give him, like
a fifty million dollar a little bonus he probably wants,
(29:53):
like what Max Crosby and Miles Garrett just got. But
the problem is he goes, I know you need me
because you guys are all in on the season. That
situation just feels a little just weird, you know. I mean,
the Steelers have always felt a little even when they
quote unquote and I've been winning at the same level
last four or five years, like he kind of had
an idea. But now these last couple of years bringing
in Russell Wilson, this situation feet a little of Steeler
(30:15):
like for the first time of the Tomlin era.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
What do you make of Kirk Cousins, Like, yeah, hey,
if I know they're going to drive the quarterback, I
would have stayed in Minnesota.
Speaker 7 (30:27):
I think the easy person to say that, Remember it
was again, I think we're playing like Monday Morning quarterback
of what really could have happened here because I think
Kevin O'Connell liked him, wanted them, but I think the
organization was kind of ready.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
To move on remember he had he had a torn
achilles tendon, rightly, and yes, yes they offered him a deal,
but it wasn't close to the deal that Atlanta offered him, right.
Speaker 7 (30:53):
And it wasn't. Wasn't it more like, I mean a
one yearish like forty fifty you know, they gave a
essentially ninety million dollars.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I guarantee, I.
Speaker 7 (31:03):
Think anyone was even coming close to that, even if
you take away Minnesota. I don't think he had that
many options. Yeah, So I think it's easy for him
to say, I don't blame them. They offered him ninety million. Honestly,
it's a reflection of the organization. When they gave him
that money. They didn't realize because they had new coaching staff,
they hadn't fallen in love with Michael Pennox. So they
(31:25):
signed them in the middle of March, and then they
start doing their private workouts, meeting with Penix, and they
fall in love with the guy. So, if anything, it's
more of a reflection of the herky jerky nature of
the Atlanta for An office because they knew they were
drafting Pennix. Let's let's be real, they would have given
like ten million dollars to h like a flat okase keenum.
(31:45):
I got just a high level backup, impressive guy that
kind of help the young guy. And it'll probably even
end up being the.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Backup what we want, which by which, by the which,
by the way, is what the Vikings did right, exactly
the Vikings. The Vikings went and they're like, Hey, we're
gonna go cheap and we're gonna draft a guy, which
is what the Vikings would do. The other part to
it is this, and I was thinking about this that
Cousins complained about this. Kirk Cousins has mastered the business
side of this thing, the business right. So forgive the
(32:15):
Falcons for treating it like it's a business right like
he wants all kinds of feelings like old on, dude,
you know you were all about business, three year guaranteed contract.
When you're with the Vikings, then they re upp to you, Hey,
it's business, it's not personal. And then you go to
Atlanta because of business. Then they treat you like it's business,
and now you're bothered because it's not personal.
Speaker 7 (32:38):
I also think anyone in Cousins hughes torn Achilles, regardless
of that he'd already made like whatever, two hundred and
eighty three hundred million dollars in issues torn Achilles older player.
This team that's kind of desperate, but they kind of
got some interesting weapons. They got like a Shanahan disciple
McVeigh disciple running the offense, so you know what you're doing.
It was actually made kind of sense, Like I don't
(32:59):
blame him for taking the contract, but like all of
a sudden, they you know, like they got married and
then a month in they're like, we're in an open relationship.
He's like, what did I sign up for? But at
the time it's like you were in love, so it's
I think it's easy. He was rattled by it. But
this is also what happens when you bounce around teams,
you know, the the equity just falls off a clip.
(33:21):
I mean Peyton Manning was now granted his arm wasn't
really working. John Alway called him into his office and said, like, hey, Peyton,
were three me a backup for a minute. Remember that
like this football, I mean, it's kind of cut throat
at times. And I think Cousins for the first time
truly in his career where he was like the starter
got I guess a little bit of a humble pie.
(33:41):
But if you were giving me ninety million dollars like
I don't know, I'd figure out a way to get
around it. Figure it out, face.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
He's John Middlecoff three. Now it's the podcast. He's the
host of the Volume podcast. That work, Johnny, have a
great weekend. Thanks for joining us, Bud.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug
Gottlieb Show weeked. He said, three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
It's Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Let's get to
a game.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
All right, Doug, we're gonna get right to it. Dan
Byer here, great song, Joyce, Sam love the DMX. So
we transsition from.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
That to.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I feel a draft.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Actually think that songs better than stop Drop, shut him down? Yeah,
I feel DMX was not a hyphenated name. No, no
it was not. But that's what we're drafting today. Favorite
hyphenated name in sports. Jason, you have the first pick,
Doug second, I'm third, Then Sam is the wrap around,
(34:53):
and if we have enough time, we'll do a second round.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
It's funny. I've been thinking about this as I've watched
the Wimbledon coverage. Chris ever her name is Chris Evert.
But for those who grew up in the eighties like
I did, she was Everett Lloyd, and so I always
referred to her as Everett Lloyd. And I think it's
a smart thing to do. Hyphenate your names. If the
divorce rate in this country is what like sixty five
percent now it's higher than ever, why do not hyphenate
(35:18):
your name. It's a good it's a better than good
chance you could just go back to your name.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Yes, absolutely, there are a lot of different reasons why
people will have a hyphenated name. I am next, Doug,
you are next up with the second pick that I'm third,
and Sam is fourth.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Kareem abdul Jabbar.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
There it is Kareem abdul Jabbar. Ultimately to score. Previous
to Lebron James in the NBA, Lewis Aussander was his
original was his Christian name and when he's changed being
a muslims kream adul Jabbar.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Give me Jackson Smith and Jigba. You knew that was common. Yes,
friend of the show, we could say because he was
on He's been on a couple of times, not only
at the Super Bowl but other times Jackson Smith and Jigba.
All right, Sam, you got four and five.
Speaker 8 (36:06):
I'll go with the hyphen A name is a little
bit more rare when you hyphenate the first name. Give
me Carl Anthony Towns. Carl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
You'll forget that's the the first name. Hyphen is it
definitely a different one.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah, all right, Oh, I'm back to me, yes, back around, all.
Speaker 8 (36:22):
Right, let's go with a long time running back in
the NFL. You see a great Maurice Jones, Drew m jd.
You could have said, yeah, I think we all remember haha.
Clinton Dix. Yes, that was my next bet. Took him
up with your first bet.
Speaker 7 (36:43):
He did?
Speaker 8 (36:43):
He mentioned him. He just said his name.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Because I've always said this. It sounds like a liquor
store in the South. You're like, hey, honey, would you
stop buying get stop by the the Knicks and get
me some cigarettes.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Aha.
Speaker 8 (36:57):
His name was short for Hashan stop by the Clinton
Nick Clinton Dick's cigarettes.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
All right, Doug, do you have another?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Uh uh yeah, I lost my name Ago, I'll.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Get all right, Jason, I'm sorry go ahead, Doug, No,
go ahead, You're okay, Jesus Smith, Schuster, the wind, there
you go. No Pete Crow, Armstrong or Homeward who homered
twice today. That's game time, and.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
That is game time, all right. It's Thursday. Don't call
it a throwback Thursday.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
What year are we talking? Find out next to The
Doug Gotlib Show
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
boxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR, boom Up America
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fue Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Doo Doo Doo doo do do dude? Hey, welcome in.
It's the DG Show.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
My man Dan Byer's back from guest hosting other shows.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
The whole crew is here. We're excited to have you.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's a Thursday, which means we got don't call it
a throwback Thursday does mean we missed our Wednesday midway,
which I love and I had it. I know you
guys did it. I didn't do it because I wasn't
here and I'm mad about it. I had a great midway.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
What did you guys do? The midway on Jase Too?
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Damn Bayer came up with a great concept. I think
I think I will Sam after after it said that
was fun.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
A great job. Yeah, it was a great job.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
What was it?
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Hold on, hold on great?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
You don't even.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
Remember exciting plays in sports? Off the heels of the
inside the park, home run, walking off great, Yeah, that
we had on Tuesday night. What are the most exciting
plays in all of sports?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
That's funny. That was not at all where I was
going with it. I was not in any way it
was where I was going with it. I mean really,
I was going somewhere where trying to figure out if
I was thinking about travel for the summer, would you
rather do be a tourist, stay at hotels, maybe move
around hotels, or would you rather do the verbo airbnb
(01:53):
thing where then you just stayed a place for a
week and you become like a Greek citizen for a week,
which is more your stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But we'll have to pocket that one for next week.
For next week.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Anyway, we got a great show for you this just
in that you may that you may have heard Jalen
Williams signs an extension, so the with the champion Oklahoma
City Thunder. So now the Big three for the Thunder
Thunder on the hook for somewhere in the neighborhood of
eight hundred and fifty million dollars between three players over
the next however many years those max contracts, right, is
(02:27):
that those numbers are obscene, and you know, I the thunder,
I'm sure, I feel like this is what we have
to do. We have to keep these three guys and
then all the other ancillary parts. We do the best
we can, and if not, we'll use those draft picks
to kind of manipulate and get the best young players
we can. So those extensions I don't think going to
(02:49):
effect for another year, so they're still able to add
some pieces and do some cute math. But eventually you
get to the place where if any three of those
players get hurt, now you're where the where the Celtics
are where you got to think, okay, we can't really
truly compete at the top of the league that particular year.
(03:11):
But let's get to this kind of a weird story
of the week. Ah, Pablo Torre and Mike Florio And
again Pablo is he's very smart. He went to Harvard
just you know, like anybody. If you want to know
how he went to Harvard, wait, they'll tell you or
(03:33):
they'll wear a Harvard sweatshirt. But super bright guys. Mike
is a lawyer, and so somehow they got this information
that there was an alleged a collusion between owners and
the commissioner to have occurred after the Deshaun Watson contract
was signed and that trade was agreed to, while no
(03:58):
collusion was found and there was no case against them.
Now it's been discovered there was a secret agreement between
the head of the players union and Roger Goodell. And
as you may have heard if you were listening to
Dan Byer and his update, there is now a growing
petition by NFL players to get the head of the
union to resign under pressure. I think the problem with
(04:22):
it is we don't know, like so he's got to
resign because there's collusion, but it wasn't deemed to be
collusion by uh by an investigation, but it was boardline
and borderline inappropriate. And so there was some sort of agreement,
(04:43):
secret agreement which is no longer secret, which was in place,
and because it was kept secret from the players, then
the union head muscow right buyer. That's how I that's
how I I read this thing. You know again, My
thing is this again a bit of a maa coopa
(05:04):
with Pablo and with Florio because they've been all over
this thing. But I also think that there's a world
where any of us who were in real time, in
real time discussing the Deshaun Watson fully guaranteed contract, we
all said, this is a bad idea. Again, And I
(05:26):
don't know the wording of any of these texts that
were sent or any discussions that were had, but the
reality is having fully multi year, fully guaranteed contracts for
NFL players would be an.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Absolute abject disaster.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
It's hard enough in the NBA, consider that in football
you just don't have that grade of a window and
you're literally one play away from never having a career
or walking again. It just it doesn't feel like it's
collusion to go, hey, guys, this might not be the
best idea to give a five year, guaranteed, no cut
(06:04):
contract to somebody who's accused of sexual assault forty times
plus and oh yeah, by the way, he suffered two
ACL injuries in his life and now you know at
the end of that contract they've had to redo it
because you can't get out of it. And he suffered
too Achilles tenantaries like this stuff and by the way,
not that good. So this is not be being pro
(06:29):
owner or pro player. I don't have it by head
in the sand. Again, it's just really hard to decipher,
like we're making a big deal and accusing the owners
and Goodell of collusion when it was reviewed and it
did not meet the pre preponderance of evidence that would
have taken to go to trial. So there is no
(06:52):
true collusion, even if there's some borderline stuff there and
they you know, they pushed their oh yeah, by the way,
in the time since that deal while there has and
that wasn't the first ever fully guaranteed contract. Kirk Cousins
had a fully guaranteed contract. It was only for three years,
and that's what players are gonna end up running into, right.
(07:16):
There has to be a balance there, and if if
Pablo Torre and Mike Florio aren't willing to admit that,
there has to be lessons learned by NFL teams from
the disaster, which is the Deshaun Watson contract. That is,
anyone who will this is this reminds me by the
(07:37):
way of when uh Durell Revis was with the Jets
and ultimately got traded. I think he had traded to
the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and what happened was the Jets
were telling Durell Rivas, we think you're the best cornerback
in the league.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So he held out.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
He's like, fine, I need to be paid like the
best cornerback in the league, like Namdi ASMOI Namdias. Well,
I made sixteen million at the time, the next highest
paid cornerback was twelve million dollars per year. And my
point then, which is my point now, is you're gonna
use that as an example, Hey, you gotta pay me
sixteen million. Well, it was a terrible contract. Why would
(08:14):
I mimic a terrible contract? And if I'm an NFL owner,
I would say the same thing about Deshaun Watson. Why
would I minmic one of the worst, if not the
worst contract in the history of sports.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Explain that to me, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
And if Roger Goodell is reiterating like this is not
good for business, I don't know how you defend the
Deshaun Watson contract.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I just do not.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
So I'm not pro owner, I'm not anti player. And
in the time since the Deshaun Watson contract, the guarantees
have continued to go up. The money has continued to
go up. And if there was collusion. They're doing a
terrible job of it, terrible job of buyer. Did I
(09:08):
read these things incorrectly in terms of we don't totally know,
We don't know what Goodell or owners are alleged to
have said. We only know what they were accused of collusion,
and it did not read the threat and did not
meet the threshold for a lawsuit going forward. Yet there
(09:28):
is this clandestine meeting between NFLBA and NFL that was
agreed to, which's like, hey, this is not a great look,
let's not discuss it.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Here's some sort of agreement.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Yeah, and Doug I had to step away just because
of the Jalen Williams news, so I didn't hear your
whole piece about it. I feel that the Players Association,
in the group of players are up in arms a
hundred times more than probably anybody else should be in
terms of or anybody else is in wondering why was
(10:02):
this hidden? Why do the owners collude? And then now
why is their executive director of other ties to other places?
I think everybody health actually probably would fall in line
with the owners not saying that players shouldn't make as
much as they want, but that do we really want
(10:23):
teams to be giving fully guaranteed contracts that could handcuff
them in future years if it doesn't work out like
it did with the Cleveland Browns. And so I think
that I think that the players have every right to
be mad. I just don't know if there's going to
be enough people to support what the players did or
what the players are mad about. Considering it did seem
(10:46):
that the owners did collude, but I think that colluding
on that certain topic is probably best overall for the league.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I agree with you. Again, there's a there's a
gray area between outright collusion, okay, and discussing what's smart business. Right, Yes,
there's a gray area, and I feel like this has
(11:16):
to have fallen into that gray area, which is really
the which is why there was no lawsuit. So again,
if I'm wrong, and if we read the text and
it's like, hey, by all means don't give them guaranteed contracts,
suppress there. But if that wording was in there, there
would be a lawsuit. There's not, you know.
Speaker 4 (11:39):
Yeah, I think I also think that, and I am
not as well versed, so this is just an amateur guess,
but I would also think that the reason why the
NFLPA didn't go public with this is because they thought
maybe down the road that if he did have guaranteed contracts,
it would hurt a portion of their union, maybe not
the top end guys. And it's kind of what makes
(11:59):
the end it is what makes the NFL's union so weak,
is that there's such a disparity between the top end
guys and everybody else.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, they call those guys, they call everybody else the
rank and file. Yes, right, So the rank and file
needs to collect checks for as long as they can
collect checks for because their checks are not what the
quarterbacks are, the wide receivers are, the defensive ends are.
You know, the guys we talk about are the guys
they're gonna make so much money that yeah, maybe they
(12:29):
make a couple million dollars less, but it's not gonna
affect them. The guys we don't talk about the offense
of the other you know, the backup tackles, you know,
the backup running backs, the fifth wide receiver, the nickel corner,
like those are the guys that are just as important
to the union. Any union is like that, right. That's
(12:51):
that's the part that people don't realize about unions. Unions
have to think of the rank and file first, operating
under the idea that whoever's at the very top of
the food chain, they're good. And if you're going to
sacrifice anything, sacrifice that because it's just a numbers game, right,
This is a numbers game.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
If you're paying the top end guys, it seems like, okay, great,
but someone ends up having to take a hit on
the other end. And I believe in the most recent
CBA a lot of middle guys who could spend six
or seven years in the league are gone because it's
just easier to go with the twenty two to twenty
(13:33):
three year old rookie at that price. So I think
as the union, that would be my guess on why
it was kept quiet. And while yeah, the owners did this,
but if you started to allow guaranteed contracts for everybody,
then maybe you're pricing out a portion of your union.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Stuck Ott lip Show here on Fox Sports.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Just a guess.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Again, And my guess is that it's in that gray
area of what's good business what's not good business for
all of us. Let's look at the Deshaun Watson thing. Yeah,
as bad business, bad for business and we probably shouldn't
do that.
Speaker 4 (14:14):
Again. I think it would have been easy for those teams,
Kyler Murray and the Cardinals, or easy for those agents
to ask for what Deshaun Watson got considering everything that,
all the baggage that came with him, and then it's
difficult to negotiate off of that. And Kyler Murray maybe
would have warranted it, maybe he would have been worthy
(14:37):
of it. And while it sucks for Kyler Murray, I
think there is a domino effect that it isn't good
for the National Football League and it isn't necessarily good
for fans. That's why I feel kind of the players
are a bit out on an island and all of
this as well, because I think parody is one of
the things that drives the NFL and now the ability
to turn things around quickly. And if you're saddled by
(14:58):
bad contracts because you have stupid owner, I don't know
if that's good for the overall portion of the league.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Well, I also think you mentioned parody. I don't know
if it's as much about parody as much as I
do think that even though it's more perception than reality
in terms of players playing for their checks, and not
being guaranteed money.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Reality is NFL players are.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Guaranteed a substantial sum of their salary substantial sum, but
the perception is they're not, which I think makes them
somebody that we want to cheer for as as fans
as well. Hey, whereas NBA players they are fully guaranteed contracts,
(15:43):
there's a perception there of they don't have to play
hard because they're still.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Getting paid anyway.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
So I do think that there's some added other benefits
to having the perception not being up with the reality
in terms of guaranteed contracts.
Speaker 5 (15:58):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Doug Gotlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. John metalcalffelll join us
after we get an update from Dan Byer. Coach Prime's
making some some waves and Dion's an interesting one man.
Like as much as I think everybody would expect him
(16:30):
to be, Hey, pay the players as much as they
can actually make. Uh, and then some just money, money, money, money, money.
The fact is, if you actually listen to many of
the things he says, whether they apply to Colorado or not.
It's about what we college coaches call the right things.
You know, guys have to earn things. Guys should stay
at their schools. A degree has a value to them,
(16:52):
and yeah, they should make some money. But like, let's
not go crazy here. A lot of these guys.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Are getting paid.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
For some that we hope they can do and it's
not true anil. Here's Dion talking about nil in college football.
Speaker 6 (17:07):
I wish it was a cat, you know, like the
top of the line player makes this, and if you're
not that type of guy, you know you're not gonna
make that. That's what the NFL does. So the problem
is you got a guy that's not that durn good,
but he could go to another school and they give
him a half a million dollars that you can't you
can't compete with that. That don't make sense. Say, all
you have to do is look at the playoffs and
see what those teams spent. And you understand, during the
(17:30):
white end the playoffs, it's kind of hard to compete
with somebody who's giving twenty five thirty million dollars of
during freshman class, right, It's crazy. The teams that pays
the more pays the most is gonna be then it.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I mean, he's right, you know, it's like, well, no, no,
he's right. I mean even Indiana, who I didn't think
should have been in the College Baball Playoff, they spent
a ton of money in order to get there in
terms of their personnel.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
The new.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Agreement is supposed to have a cap on spending twenty
two million dollars. And you know, I think thirteen of
it's supposed to go to college to football. But you
can also add in anil which is sometimes real sometimes
not nil. In college basketball. I got all but three
picks right, and I picked every game based upon who's
(18:25):
spent the most money.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So it is really the haves and the have nots.
And the part he didn't discuss is that the other
real world discussion that isn't at is, Hey, you do
realize that a lot of schools were going to lose
some Olympic sports because if you want to compete in
the revenue generating sports, that money is not coming. You're
(18:50):
not making tons of profit at Max schools, not making
tons of profit at all these other schools of football.
You're not making a huge money if you don't have football.
You're still trying to pay to play in basketball, women's basketball,
and potentially football. That means you're not going to be
able to fully fund properly Olympic sports. But he's just
(19:11):
talking about competitive balance, says it's lacking because there's no cap.
John Milcoffe joints just three and outs to the podcast.
He spent some time in Fresno State in college football
before moving on to the NFL before moving on to
becoming a star podcaster. What do you think of what
Dion said?
Speaker 7 (19:26):
Well, I followed that a lot of the comments pretty closely.
Kenny Dillingham had some two you know Texas Tech. You
know you're a got some big twelve roots. They have
that oil guy that's former players. They have spent big
time money. And Dellingham was saying yesterday like guys, be ready,
this team is gonna be really, really good. And essentially
(19:47):
what he's saying is like they broke the bank this
offseason when it came to football and they had arguably
the best transfer portal class. You know, you're in it now,
and I know it's different than like you know, Ohio State,
Michigan and Alabama, like recruiting and stuff football wise. But
whenever I see like this guy's a great recruiter, I
think that used to really matter, like ed Ojeron or
(20:10):
Coosh or some of these guys in football, especially like
when I was in high school or in college in
the two thousands, that there is no such thing as
a great recruiter anymore, Like are you paying the most money?
And like you said, even when the cap comes, like
in the NFL, if I'm giving whoever an extension TJ
Watt or Travis Kelcey or obviously the quarterbacks the whatever
(20:32):
they're gonna make State Farm or Chevy, and that has
nothing to do with anything with the team. Where if
Kirby Smart goes, well, hey what even once this gap comes,
I can pay you. Let's let's just take a number
five hundred thousand dollars with the cap, but I can
also get you half a million dollars in nil, like
he's part of that. Like the other schools don't have
(20:52):
that capabilia Ohio State. I mean, there's there's a group
of fifteen twenty that it's only going to continue to separate.
Now you could argue, you know, in college football, college
basketball could be a little random right because of the tournament,
where in football, on the aggregate of the season, typically
the same team's year and year out, give or take,
(21:12):
are competing. That that's only going to continue to separate.
But now it's so conference aligned because of the SEC
money and the Big ten TV money, the advantages they have,
They've always had advantages. Now it's only separated. Why Texas
Tech can even you know, dream of competing is because
they have I don't know their version, it's not quite
(21:34):
it's not apples apples, but like a Phil Knight or
you at Oklahoma State, like you have to have a
special individual with huge money to even be in the
conversation or else you really got no shot.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
And recruiting, Recruiting does matter. Recruiting does matter. Okay, you
still have to connect with the kid. You have to
pay for them a vision. You're not They're not always going,
not all of them go to where the top dollar is.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
I think again, high level football, high major football, high
major basketball a little different than what we're doing. But
you still are recruiting, and some of it is you
got to recruit at our level. Recruit guys you're not
going to get you know, like I'll just be honest
with you, John, I'm recruiting the top twenty kids the
class of twenty twenty six in the state of Wisconsin.
(22:28):
I'm recruiting all twenty top the ones I've evaluated is
the top twenty.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
I'm recruiting all of them.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
There's only one that I've offered a scholarship to, and
I think he's a little bit above our level, but
I think this would be a level where he can
come in and play initially, and then I'm only going
to say I told him. I gave him till the
end of the July cycle. We offered him like almost
a year ago, and then after that, and now I'll
start offering because he's the guy I want to build around.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Like the recruiting class. Anyway.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Point is, I know I'm not gonna get all of them.
I'm not going to offer all of them, but I
want them to get to know me, and I want
to get to know them that way. In a year,
in two years, in three years, when they hit the
transfer portal, which many of the high percentages are, then
there's already a relationship there and I already know if
I want him, if I don't want him. He already
knows if he likes me or doesn't like me.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
So it does.
Speaker 7 (23:16):
And that was a big advantage for UCLA a couple
of years ago when Chip the two years ago, they
had a really solid defense. A lot of those guys
had transferred. They were from la you know, from Michigan
or whatever. It came home. So I totally understand what
you're talking. That's where you're right recruiting. But that's different, right,
You're like recruiting for their second recruiting cycle. It's just
(23:36):
a different world.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
It's a it's a totally different world. Let's get to
some of Let's get to the the collusion thing. Okay,
we don't know the details of it. And I do
know that because you got Florio, who is a lawyer,
uh and you have Pablo, who is you know, a
Harvard dude, brilliant like a lawyer that you know there's
(24:01):
something there. But there's a there's a fine line between, hey,
this is not good business to give to Shaun Watson
a five year guaranteed contract in this sport, especially and
outright collusion which is suppressing wages and limiting the guarantees.
What do you think really happened between the union and
(24:23):
the owners after Deshaun Watson signed his deal.
Speaker 7 (24:26):
Yeah, I mean to me, I read a couple of headlines.
I'm like, I don't really see anyone. To me, collusion
typically is someone getting royally screwed, and I didn't really
see anyone getting royally screwed here. The other thing is
like Tyler Murray, well, you know one of those texts
was like a good job, Michael on signing that deal. Well,
Kyler didn't have to sign the deal, right, no one
(24:47):
was forcing him. It was after his third year. He
could have played it out again, like, no one's forcing
any of these people to sign deals. And the other
thing when it comes, you know, specifically out of the
conversation was around the quarterbacks. How often new quarterbacks not
see like the majority of their contract. It's very very
rare that, you know. Russell Wilson is an example of
like got cut way short. Now his guaranteed money was
(25:08):
so high. He's still got a ton of money, But like,
did Tyler get screwed? Last time I checked, He's made
like a couple hundred million dollars the last three four years.
So it's like, I see everyone getting rich in this
business model and you've been through way more negotiations in
your life than me. I mean, isn't when I read
some of these conversations, Like my first talk was, you know,
(25:28):
my dad was a farmer for a long time. Dealt
with banks is not just called business, I mean, but
I just it'd be one thing if the wages or
something hadn't gone dramatically up. But from my advantage point,
it feels like everyone I would say that there's not
a business in the history of America that's created more
(25:49):
millionaires when coaches, players, obviously, owners, people involved, help people
on the outside, media members when it comes to football,
and business continues to just roll. So I to me,
it was it was more of like, yeah, this is
means nothing. I didn't do anything for me. But again,
I'm not those stories.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
I totally I totally agree that it's like we're chasing
something like oh, yeah, they're the bad guys. Like yeah,
I again, if you remember when Kyler Murray signed the
new deal, you know, it was after Kyler Murray had
been accused of playing call of duty too much?
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Right, is this a guy we really want? And oh yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:30):
But it was also if you remember coming off an
injury too, an't he?
Speaker 7 (26:34):
Uh No, I think he got injured the next year,
or maybe he did. I can't even remember, but it
was after a third year, like the first time you
can negotiate with a with the with the first rounders. Yeah,
and like they didn't have to do that like other quarterbacks.
Hel Lamar didn't get a contract then. But the other
thing is we act like kind of murder. Was the
number one overall pick, he had already signed like a
(26:55):
forty million dollar contract, then he got another two hundred
plus million dollar contract. I just don't think anyone on
the outside, mainly the consumer who usually drives a lot
of these, like if they're all into this, it's like, well,
who's who's really getting screwed here? And I think most
of us come to the conclusion that nobody really.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, yeah, it is the Dug Outlive Show. It is
Fox Sports Radio, Dallas Cowboys, Michaeh Parsons. You know, it
does feel like, you know, he's playing on the fifth
year option. What I mean, we all it's funny. Most
people think he'll be a free agentcy the end of
the year.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
He won't. They can franchise tag.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Him Jerry, of course, could have signed him last offseason,
did not, says he'd rather wait and pay more than
pay too much to a guy he doesn't want.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Where do you think we are with Parsons and the Cowboys?
Speaker 7 (27:47):
To me, that's super far about waiting and to pay more.
It's like seedy Lamb and Michael Parsons, Jerry where your
draft picks. You've been around these guys every day for
whatever five years. I mean, what's for you waiting? You've
seen them their entire career on and off the field.
He's been around him all the time, so it's like
kind of know what he is. To me, Micah is
like you're either breaking the bank for him or you
(28:08):
would trade him like the TJ. Watt hendrickson those older players.
That's just like complicated negotiation business. The Mica think's pretty simple.
Like the number is kind of his number, you know,
give or take, maybe a couple million you can argue over,
But like, why you know Micah Parson is going to
show up for training camp. I know he played good
(28:29):
copter and the off season, the spring ball, but recent
history would say guys in his shoes, you know, kind
of make it difficult you know, Nick Bosa, We've just
seen other guys. Now, we see a lot of teams
just sign the contract. I would say, give or take
some time between you know, post draft to right around
(28:52):
the next couple of weeks so they don't have to
deal with this drama. I think Jerry has a pretty
clear history of like, I'm gonna sign him like August
twenty eight, last possible second, So that would be my expectation.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, that's what he does, and it ends up giving
the guys a chance to take some time off of
training camp.
Speaker 7 (29:11):
I think I think the TJ. Watt things a little
more complicated. You know, these older guys, they have a
lot of wear and hair on them, but they're really
important and excellent players. Henderson TJ. Watt. You know, it's
in fairness to them. It's like they see the amount
of money other their quote unquote peers are getting and
it's like, well, if I were to shattered my leg,
(29:32):
and these negotiations are hard, Like I understand both sides,
and I don't think there's an easy answer to it.
It's like if you just break here, TJ. Watt, here's
another one hundred million dollars guaranteed or we just kind
of play, you know, a staring contest, you know, because
I think ste would probably have to give him, like
a fifty million dollar a little bonus he probably wants,
(29:53):
like what Max Crosby and Miles Garrett just got. But
the problem is he goes, I know you need me
because you guys are all in on the season. That
situation just feels a little just weird, you know. I mean,
the Steelers have always felt a little even when they
quote unquote and I've been winning at the same level
last four or five years, like he kind of had
an idea. But now these last couple of years bringing
in Russell Wilson, this situation feet a little of Steeler
(30:15):
like for the first time of the Tomlin era.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
What do you make of Kirk Cousins, Like, yeah, hey,
if I know they're going to drive the quarterback, I
would have stayed in Minnesota.
Speaker 7 (30:27):
I think the easy person to say that, Remember it
was again, I think we're playing like Monday Morning quarterback
of what really could have happened here because I think
Kevin O'Connell liked him, wanted them, but I think the
organization was kind of ready.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
To move on remember he had he had a torn
achilles tendon, rightly, and yes, yes they offered him a deal,
but it wasn't close to the deal that Atlanta offered him, right.
Speaker 7 (30:53):
And it wasn't. Wasn't it more like, I mean a
one yearish like forty fifty you know, they gave a
essentially ninety million dollars.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, I guarantee, I.
Speaker 7 (31:03):
Think anyone was even coming close to that, even if
you take away Minnesota. I don't think he had that
many options. Yeah, So I think it's easy for him
to say, I don't blame them. They offered him ninety million. Honestly,
it's a reflection of the organization. When they gave him
that money. They didn't realize because they had new coaching staff,
they hadn't fallen in love with Michael Pennox. So they
(31:25):
signed them in the middle of March, and then they
start doing their private workouts, meeting with Penix, and they
fall in love with the guy. So, if anything, it's
more of a reflection of the herky jerky nature of
the Atlanta for An office because they knew they were
drafting Pennix. Let's let's be real, they would have given
like ten million dollars to h like a flat okase keenum.
(31:45):
I got just a high level backup, impressive guy that
kind of help the young guy. And it'll probably even
end up being the.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Backup what we want, which by which, by the which,
by the way, is what the Vikings did right, exactly
the Vikings. The Vikings went and they're like, Hey, we're
gonna go cheap and we're gonna draft a guy, which
is what the Vikings would do. The other part to
it is this, and I was thinking about this that
Cousins complained about this. Kirk Cousins has mastered the business
side of this thing, the business right. So forgive the
(32:15):
Falcons for treating it like it's a business right like
he wants all kinds of feelings like old on, dude,
you know you were all about business, three year guaranteed contract.
When you're with the Vikings, then they re upp to you, Hey,
it's business, it's not personal. And then you go to
Atlanta because of business. Then they treat you like it's business,
and now you're bothered because it's not personal.
Speaker 7 (32:38):
I also think anyone in Cousins hughes torn Achilles, regardless
of that he'd already made like whatever, two hundred and
eighty three hundred million dollars in issues torn Achilles older player.
This team that's kind of desperate, but they kind of
got some interesting weapons. They got like a Shanahan disciple
McVeigh disciple running the offense, so you know what you're doing.
It was actually made kind of sense, Like I don't
(32:59):
blame him for taking the contract, but like all of
a sudden, they you know, like they got married and
then a month in they're like, we're in an open relationship.
He's like, what did I sign up for? But at
the time it's like you were in love, so it's
I think it's easy. He was rattled by it. But
this is also what happens when you bounce around teams,
you know, the the equity just falls off a clip.
(33:21):
I mean Peyton Manning was now granted his arm wasn't
really working. John Alway called him into his office and said, like, hey, Peyton,
were three me a backup for a minute. Remember that
like this football, I mean, it's kind of cut throat
at times. And I think Cousins for the first time
truly in his career where he was like the starter
got I guess a little bit of a humble pie.
(33:41):
But if you were giving me ninety million dollars like
I don't know, I'd figure out a way to get
around it. Figure it out, face.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
He's John Middlecoff three. Now it's the podcast. He's the
host of the Volume podcast. That work, Johnny, have a
great weekend. Thanks for joining us, Bud.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug
Gottlieb Show weeked. He said, three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
It's Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Let's get to
a game.
Speaker 5 (34:11):
This is game time on the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
All right, Doug, we're gonna get right to it. Dan
Byer here, great song, Joyce, Sam love the DMX. So
we transsition from.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
That to.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
I feel a draft.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
Actually think that songs better than stop Drop, shut him down? Yeah,
I feel DMX was not a hyphenated name. No, no
it was not. But that's what we're drafting today. Favorite
hyphenated name in sports. Jason, you have the first pick,
Doug second, I'm third, Then Sam is the wrap around,
(34:53):
and if we have enough time, we'll do a second round.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
It's funny. I've been thinking about this as I've watched
the Wimbledon coverage. Chris ever her name is Chris Evert.
But for those who grew up in the eighties like
I did, she was Everett Lloyd, and so I always
referred to her as Everett Lloyd. And I think it's
a smart thing to do. Hyphenate your names. If the
divorce rate in this country is what like sixty five
percent now it's higher than ever, why do not hyphenate
(35:18):
your name. It's a good it's a better than good
chance you could just go back to your name.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
Yes, absolutely, there are a lot of different reasons why
people will have a hyphenated name. I am next, Doug,
you are next up with the second pick that I'm third,
and Sam is fourth.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Kareem abdul Jabbar.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
There it is Kareem abdul Jabbar. Ultimately to score. Previous
to Lebron James in the NBA, Lewis Aussander was his
original was his Christian name and when he's changed being
a muslims kream adul Jabbar.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Give me Jackson Smith and Jigba. You knew that was common. Yes,
friend of the show, we could say because he was
on He's been on a couple of times, not only
at the Super Bowl but other times Jackson Smith and Jigba.
All right, Sam, you got four and five.
Speaker 8 (36:06):
I'll go with the hyphen A name is a little
bit more rare when you hyphenate the first name. Give
me Carl Anthony Towns. Carl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
You'll forget that's the the first name. Hyphen is it
definitely a different one.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah, all right, Oh, I'm back to me, yes, back around, all.
Speaker 8 (36:22):
Right, let's go with a long time running back in
the NFL. You see a great Maurice Jones, Drew m jd.
You could have said, yeah, I think we all remember haha.
Clinton Dix. Yes, that was my next bet. Took him
up with your first bet.
Speaker 7 (36:43):
He did?
Speaker 8 (36:43):
He mentioned him. He just said his name.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Because I've always said this. It sounds like a liquor
store in the South. You're like, hey, honey, would you
stop buying get stop by the the Knicks and get
me some cigarettes.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Aha.
Speaker 8 (36:57):
His name was short for Hashan stop by the Clinton
Nick Clinton Dick's cigarettes.
Speaker 4 (37:04):
All right, Doug, do you have another?
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Uh uh yeah, I lost my name Ago, I'll.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Get all right, Jason, I'm sorry go ahead, Doug, No,
go ahead, You're okay, Jesus Smith, Schuster, the wind, there
you go. No Pete Crow, Armstrong or Homeward who homered
twice today. That's game time, and.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
That is game time, all right. It's Thursday. Don't call
it a throwback Thursday.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
What year are we talking? Find out next to The
Doug Gotlib Show
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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