June 23, 2025 • 38 mins
Doug offers up his best guess on why there has been a rash of achilles injuries in basketball and in sports. Doug welcomes former NBA Player and FSR NBA Analyst Ryan Hollins onto the show to talk about Tyler Haliburton, the Thunder and all of the headlines around the NBA. Doug welcomes Dr. Alan Shamrock onto the show to get his expertise on Achilles injuries.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Coming up next to the coming up on the Doug
Gotlib Show. We got Kevin Durant going to the Rockets
to say what I think. Ryan Hollins, who covers the
(01:05):
Rockets and he's our Fox Sports Radio NBA analyst, he'll
join us and we'll talk about it. Let me, let's
have a little discussion here. And I'm bummed at Dan's
camera's not working because I do love and we tell
you you can watch highlights of this show on YouTube.
I like having like a conversation with Dan because he's
(01:26):
been doing this a long time too. I'm not a
prisoner of the moment. I've watched this happen plenty of
times recently to know at least a little bit more
about what I'm talking about in regards to injuries and
(01:52):
this new kind of scourge of achilles tendon injuries that
is going around all of basketball but also all of sports.
Here's what I mean. So last night Tyre's Haliburton tear's
his achilles tendon, and first I just now we also
(02:18):
and I think it goes back to the Kevin Durant
and then onto the Aaron Rodgers where we now know
what it looks like, right like everybody staring at the
calf and then you see the calf kind of explode
and then you can almost see the Achilles recoil and
you're like, oh, I knew what that is. I know
(02:39):
what that is. And there were two moments this weekend
which I do think I could be wrong. You're going
to remember. I don't know where you were, but your
reaction right when the president, when we found out that
the President had bombed I ran. I guarantee all of
you were like, well I was. I remember I was
(02:59):
in at the Champion Center in Appleton, Wisconsin, watching high
school kids play at this recruiting event, and you know,
all aside. I look at my phone and some of
my friends had sent me memes. I'm like, I don't
even know, Like, what's the matter with you? Like what
are you talking about? And then I got in my
car and I'm driving and a buddy, Michael Kidd, you
believe it, and then we start talking about it. Anyway,
(03:22):
I think you're gonna remember the NBA Finals, maybe for
Halliburton's game winner in Game one, I guess because of
the thunder winning in Game seven. But I think the
most memorable moment is going to be I'm tearing his
achilles tendon. And I've the great thing about this show
(03:43):
is it starts at three on the East noon in
the West, and it gives some really talented people like
Dan Patrick, like Colin Cowherd, two Pros and a cup
of Joe a chance to speak their mind and then
we can either react to that, echo their thoughts, or
maybe look at things a little bit differently. This is
(04:04):
not a basketball thing. It's a sports thing. And you're like, well,
I just you know, we watched Jason Tatum, we watched
Damian Lillard, we watched Tyrese Haliburton. Uh, those are all
basketball players. They just tore their achilles tenon. I'll add
to it that in the last week, Jalen Moore, who
played basketball at Georgia Tech and then Oklahoma, he was
(04:26):
doing pre draft workouts. He tours the achilles tennant. So
the the difference is it used to be an injury
where Dominiquilkins late in his career towards achilles tennant. It
used to be one where the wear and tear of
a long career. Maybe that's it gets brittle. It's just
overused and just goes right. It's like the rubber band
(04:46):
that gets pulled, pulled, pull pull pull, pull pulled, then
finally a right, but let's let let's let's hit the
all of the different things first. Don't do that. It's
the vaccination thing because Aaron Rodgers his that it it's
and I don't know if if if Kirk Cousins was
(05:06):
vaccinated or not. I guess as he wasn't. So let's
stop with the vaccine thing. Are we okay with Chase
stew Are you okay with me going Vaccine's not it?
I'm gonna go, yes, Vaccine's not it. If we do
the overuseed thing, you're like, okay. Well, they do play
(05:31):
a couple more playoff games than they used to, and
they're like, well, the NBA playoffs are so long. Well,
there's so long because the games are spaced out in
order to give them more rest than they used to have,
because the NBA Playoffs have always gone into June, always, always, always, always,
(05:52):
and they've always played eighty two games, and players used
to always play eighty two games, and the medical treatment
after the games has gotten better, not worse. So I
don't buy the they play more games they used to,
not really. Tyres Haliburton played seventy three games this year
Jason Tatum, and I know he and Haliburton were on
the Olympic team, but neither of them really played that much.
(06:15):
Now there is extensive work and whatever. But okay, Damian
Lillard again. Then you go to football, Uh, what was
the what's the running back of the Rams who a
couple of years ago towards Achilles ten cam Akers? I
give you Jalen Moore, I give you cam Akers. There's
also what's the guard? Who was San Antonio Atlanta tore
(06:40):
his this year? Right? Jean Murray was Jontay Murray towards coast.
So it's not age. I don't believe it's games played.
Jantay Murray played deep in the playoffs. He haven't played
a lot of games. He's young. Jalen Moore's not played
in the NBA. You know, I played college basketball season,
a couple of college basketball seasons. I don't by the
(07:00):
it's the number of games thing. I Also I've heard
people go like, well, it's the all of them are
when guys take that kind of reverse step and then
they push off like so that people just started doing
that just now. No, that basketball has always been stressed
in your achilles tenon and again it. Quarterbacks have always
(07:22):
gone back and taken that negative step and planted and thrown.
There's always that pressure on achilles tendon. Only now it
seems like there's more guys. So it wasn't the vaccine.
Please stop with its low tops, Stop with its low tops.
There's never been a study that shows that high tops
(07:42):
protect you from anything, especially an achilles tenant. To wear
high tops, okay, and put your toe down and plant
and there's zero difference, none in the pressure on your
achilles ten and wearing high tops. There used to be
a shoe and I'm a basketball shoe guy. I've worn
(08:04):
I have tried them all. And I think Buyer might
be the only other human being in the world who
remembers this because he's also Midwest guy. Do you remember
there was the Converse weapons, but they also had the
y bar Did you ever remember the y bar ones?
They were like weapons that had an ankle brace, almost
like inserted into it.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
No, No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, now remember Dan Marino towards achilles tenon, right, So
it had happened before. It's just a volume of them,
and now it's not reserved for older players. Now you've
got younger players doing it. I don't believe it's the
stinkers because the Sneker technology is way better. It doesn't
(08:47):
make any sense, right, I mean, like we used to
play air Force ones. Used to be basketball snakers. People
used to play in air Force ones. I played air
Force ones. By the way, air Force two remarkably underrated shoe.
But the technology wasn't better then than it is now,
so that doesn't make any sense. Please don't say it's Nike.
(09:10):
Haliburton was wearing pumas Lillard was wearing Adidas. So again,
let's in order to figure out what it is, we
have to cross off what it's not. I don't believe
it's too many games, because they're playing the same number
of regular season games only I don't know if any
of these guys play. No nobody plays eighty two games anymore,
(09:31):
and they used to always play eighty two games, and
they didn't used to tear their achilles tenants. That doesn't
make any sense. They've added a handful of games to
the playoffs, right, first round used to be three, then
it was five, now it's seven. But again, guys have
torn their achilles tennants in the regular season. That doesn't
make any sense. You can say, well, these guys are
so much bigger and stronger up top top heavy, Haliburton's not.
That doesn't make sense, right, So we're trying to get
(09:56):
to what it is. What it's not is I it's
not vaccine, it's not too many games, it's not the sneakers,
and it's also happened in football. I don't think it's
nutrition because people eat better than it what it was.
(10:17):
So here's my best guess. Okay, here's my best guess.
I think we're building bodies the wrong way. I do.
I think we're building bodies the wrong It's the only
possible we're building by the wrong way. And then I
think there's a portion of it which I wonder. I
don't know. All of this is hypotheses, and I didn't
pay attention a lot in school. I'm not sitting here
(10:39):
trying to brag. I do remember the difference between hypotheses
and theory. A theory is something that has proven scientifically
through a study. Hypothesis is something that you wonder that
has some sort of facts behind it, but it is
yet to be scientifically proven. My hypothesis for why there
is just so many recent Achilles ten and tears instead
(11:02):
of one every couple of years too. Now we got
three star players in the playoffs and I've gone through
two star quarterbacks the last two years. I've torn it
and we could go through a litany of guys. It
never happened before at this volume. If you say it did,
your lying. But they're playing the same number of games
in the NBA at a couple of playoff games. That's it.
(11:28):
I'm torn in terms of the only play one sport thing,
right because Aaron Rodgers didn't just play one sport. A
lot of these guys play multiple sports growing up. But
there is the specialization to it. So is it the
specialization and taking time off in the offseason that allows
you to build your body? Maybe maybe you know it
(11:50):
trains other muscles so it protects it. I guess that
could be it. I also think there's a part of
me that says basketball players now, when I played, and
you know, I finished playing in college in two thousands,
I finished playing professionally in two thousand and three, Okay,
But when I played, and how I was brought up
(12:10):
with my dad, who was a Jay, was a walk
on JV player in college is basketball players play basketball.
I played basketball all the time, even when I played baseball,
even when I play football, even when I played tennis.
I would always play basketball when I when I played
in the summer, you'd go home and yeah, I'd work
out my dad and I would shoot, but I would
(12:31):
always play. You go up to UCLA, you play pickup games.
We go to Columbus test and Gym and we get
the guys. Or I'd go down to to UH Newport
and now it's pacifica Christian's gym, but it's the West
Newport gym. And that was like Scottie Brooks and Todd
Murphy and all the U. C Irvine guys that were pros.
(12:52):
I'd hop in with them, or at Los Cabriiros. We
played basketball the time. Yeah, we lift weights, we work
with trainers, but we played basketball. Now in the off season,
nobody plays five on five very little. You know, you'll
see those there's that gym in I think it's like
an LA Fitness in New York, where they'll play a
little bit, but for the most part, everybody's got their
trainer and everybody does cone drills. And I'm not sure
(13:12):
if that doesn't build your body in a way along
with the trainers that is so sports specific and so
that it's not functioning like it functions in a game.
Then you get into a game and suddenly there's an imbalance.
It's got to be the way in which we're constructing
these bodies. They're more explosive, they have greater endurance, they
(13:32):
have great lotteral quickness, they're just better in terms of
their performance, but they also break down more. I don't
think there's anybody that can that can deny that. So
my hypothesis is it is not the vacs. It is
not too many games. And by the way, they're never
(13:53):
going to have fewer games. Stop at Colin again, We've
told you that before. The one thing that sports is
never going to do. They're never going to take away
games because that takes away money. And it's not just
the league, it's the players, like, hey, do you want
to play less games? Yes? Do you want to make
less money? Nope? Doesn't work that way. But there is
(14:13):
there's nothing that tells us it's too many games. It's
got to be something else. And my best guess is
how we construct bodies. I am my trainer who was
Troy Palamalu's trainer, and others, the late Marv Vinovich. Okay,
anybody who's in sports note Todd Marv was different, but
Marvel was incredible. He worked on your ligaments and your
(14:35):
tendons as well as your nervous system and making it
all together. I don't think people do that. I think
people work on balance, and they work on explosiveness. They
work on the big and the little muscles, But I
don't know if they work on the ligaments and tents
and how it all works together. Byer, do you have
any hypotheses you'd like to share as to what happens?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And I just think that your at least expertise. I
don't know how you want to put it. Your connections,
your job is much more educated than anything that I
could bring up. I just on a surface level, wondered
if you know, if it was a strength training thing
or a lack of strength training that we're going through,
(15:14):
is it? You know, were those sort of maybe reasons
why we're seeing it more. It's also funny too, is
I've mentioned on the show on Sunday of we now
kind of have this eerie feel when it comes to
a calf strain of what could happen. And while we
thought that Halliburton was you know, made it through the
woods because he got through Game six, he obviously wasn't.
And I just think now going forward, yeah, we're going
(15:37):
to look at the injury even more differently than we
did entering this game seven. But it was already there
with Tatum and Lillard and Kevin Durant in twenty nineteen.
But you would know a lot more about it, especially
on how you know these athletes are training.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I don't. I talked to I talked to doctor Shamrock
with Packers today and he told me, like you said,
they now they now believe that the cap strains it's
a weakness. They don't know whether the cap strain is
really it's really an achilles strain or more he said,
more likely. It just means there's gonna be more pressure
on the achilles and that's what leads to it. But again,
(16:13):
what leads to the more cap strains and the weaker
achilles or all that pressure.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
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Speaker 1 (16:33):
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Speaker 3 (16:45):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Let's welcome in Ryan Hollins. He's our Fox Sports Radio
NBA analyst's former NBA player, and he is also the
color analyst for the Houston Rockets TV network. He joins
me on the Doug Gottlieb Show. Ryan, Let's let's let's
start with the the Achilles thing. It's happened in football too,
(17:06):
and guys used to play eighty two games. They do
not now, So I don't I don't think it's just
a basketball thing. I don't think it's a too many
games thing, because they actually most of these guys don't
play as many games as they used to play. What
do you think is behind so many of these achilles
ten in tears? You're ready?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
You're ready for my answer? Don Yes, obviously clearing fun.
Guys have to take care of their body. Oh that's
first and foremost. Your Your body is your temple. You
cannot avoid that, and it is it is a business. Also,
you know, the game is played at a pace that
it's never been played at before. And in my strong,
(17:51):
strong opinion, let's get to the nuts and bolts of it. Also,
the skill set of the NBA player has gone up
and the moves that these guys make to create separation.
What's a different torque on your body than it did
in the past. So, Doug, as a point guard, what
were you taught one of the keyest moves you would
(18:11):
have done?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Wonderable pull up right, wondrible pull up right one, drible
pull up left, right, wonderbul hard drive to defender, pull
up and shoot. You know what these guys are drilled
on now, step back, step back, sidestep. Those moves put
in the I minse amount of torque on your body.
You have to train for those moves. They're not training
(18:33):
for those moves. They are doing it on top of
the abundance of games that they are playing. And for
a star player, these guys are going through these moves,
I mean hundreds of times per night if you are
a young teams, per practice per game. That's a huge
part of it. So now the science and technology has
(18:54):
to fix to where you know, these guys are going
to be sufficiently trained to make a lot of these
moves and real quick, I will say this, the superstar players,
that the role players are doing these moves now, where
this was just superstar players making those moves in the past.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Okay, except for uh my pushback would be this. Okay,
that move edition of the step back. And you're you're
not not as old as I am. Do you know
who really invented the step back?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Talk to me, Talk to me, Doug.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Ucla legend, kiki vanduwy. It used to be called when
I was a kid, it used to be called a
kiki right and then the guy, the guy who perfected
it was Steph Curry again and again. I understand limited
sample size. You're talking about two guys, neither of them
toward their achilles. It is interesting you talk about step backs.
(19:50):
Two who three who did tear their achilles? The throw
all three in the playoffs. I mean Damian Lillard, he's
a stide step and step back. Same thing with Jason Tatum,
same thing obviously with Haliburton. But why does it happen
in football? Why has it happened to running backs in football.
I gotta think it's got to be how we're building
(20:11):
guy's bodies. Because even Lillar, like Lillard boxes in the offseason, right,
he takes care of his body. Jason Tatum takes care
of like those guys take really good care of their bodies.
I'm just wondering if it's not how we're building our
muscle and if we're training the achilles, if we're training
the ligaments and the tendons as must as we're training
the big muscles.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Let me, let me slip this back to you you
at first, and also keeping the way that Kiki did
this step back was different because of his size. Okay,
these are different moves now because there's sport going forward,
there's court going back, and there there's sport going right
back forward. How many guys or how many drills have
(20:53):
you ever seen guys train that. You've seen them work
on defensive slides, You've seen band movement, you've seen side steps,
but you haven't seen that movement. That movement's not being trained.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I think it is. But okay, okay, I mean no, no, no.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
Stay with me.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But we we trained sideways, we trained forward. But how
many times have you seen forward back and then back
forward because you've got to stay on balance into your shot.
I've never I've never seen it trained, Doug. It's something
you're gonna have. It have to add into it.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
You're talking about you're talking, you're ting about, you're talking
about training with you're talking about training with with like
like weights and like workout not on the.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Absolutely those actual movements, and we do all those movements
for everything else. But it's such a prevalent part of
the game, and we're not addressing it correct. We're getting
We're getting real nerdy right now, Doug.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
We're really no, no, no, you know, honestly, this is
way more interesting than anything else. It's it's way more interesting.
Like it completely changed the playoffs. Jason ten doesn't get hurt.
I don't think the Pacers get there right, and or
the you know, I don't know if the Knicks close
him out. It's it's very easy to go like, oh yeah,
the Knicks were dominating that series anyway, there win that
(22:10):
game anyway, like I maybe for sure or or you know,
or maybe not right, and you know, Lillard doesn't get hurt.
The whole playoffs are different. They just are so and
then of course last night's game, it's and it's interesting.
You know, Kirk Cousins just tore his Aaron Rodgers the
year before, his kid named Jalen Moore, who's was at Oklahoma,
(22:31):
who's getting ready for the NBA Draft, just tore his
you know. And he's a he's a wing, he's not
a guard. So I'm just it's super interesting. Uh oh,
it was interesting until he hung up on us. That's
that that. We'll we'll get him back. Here's what we're
gonna do. We're gonna take quick. Oh he's back. Okay,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I'm here, I don't know this, but but here's the thing,
Doug with Lillard, you know, he came back too soon
from the clock. He probably is conditioning. Whatever it was
was it there. We knew Aliburn shouldn't been out there, bro.
So so those two you can kind of see coming.
It's it's Tatum is the one. We're questioning it and
why he's happening. And like Doug, like you can't hide anymore.
(23:09):
Like like like back in the day, if the barn
the plutguard had to be a he had to pick
up ninety four feet. Doug and then if you are injured,
go barb the spot up shooting in the corner more
spot up shooters. Doug Nieman's running off screens and making
plays like like like the other guys will be topping
(23:31):
his hidden step back threes, Miles Turners hidden. You can't
hide in the NBA no more, Doug. That's the reality.
And then you gotta be busy on the other hand
making those plays. And that's what these guys are getting hurt.
You get hide.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Ryan Hollans, our guests, You're on the Doug Oatlieb Show
on Fox Sports Radio. Is Oklahoma City? How would you
rate them in terms of champions in comparison to other
champions in our lifetime?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Who does? That's? That's so because I can't, I cannot.
I cannot have this nostalgic bias towards Kobe Bryant, towards
Michael Jordan, towards Larry Bird, towards Lebron James, because these
kids are young and I haven't seen them the way
they've done it before. I cannot deny the numbers. Although
(24:22):
I'm not ready to jump off a bridge for SGA,
but I cannot deny the season that he has had
and the way that he's gotten busy against every team
in the league. No, he hasn't done it the way
that I've loved it. But did Kobe Bryant falbeate? Of course?
You know, if you guard Kobe in your hand was
in the Sookie jar, it was gonna draw that. You
knew if you're too close to Kobe.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And it is different, though, it's different. Though it's different though,
like what he does. There's a difference between driving in
and creating contact and grabbing somebody pulling them into you,
you know, I mean, it's it's different than anybody who
says all these guys shot free throws, none of them
would grab to somebody's arm, pull them into them, and
then throw up their hands and pretend they were found.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I agree, I agree, You're not wrong. I don't want
to pull away from them, but I don't want to
finalize this guy. I'm in between Doug and I need
to see him do it two or three more times.
W farm just fall in and I think the chance
for him to have to do it is not And
keep in mind, like the ball was in his hands
(25:25):
for the majority of it. It wasn't like, you know,
like he took nights off and Jay Williams had that
one forty point game and they were really good to find,
like for the most part, when they need, like the
balls in his hands. For me, the key for it
to continue to move forward the way it does. That
will continue to sell me, because I like, I'm not
fully sold that I'm sold. I got respect for what
(25:46):
he does. I don't want to take away from SGA.
The thing that will sell me is the improvement of
Check Hoongern. And I think that if he puts on weight,
he continues to get stronger. He's the guy that creates
a dynasty for Oklahoma City right now. If he's planning
against a big if he has to rebound against somebody
with size, he can get thrown around a little bit.
(26:08):
But if he can play in space, he's beaten shots
off the glass. Dude, he can shoot, he can dribble.
There's a lot that Check can do. I think Checks
that unicorn okay, that takes them to the next level
that makes it a dynasty or not. If Chet doesn't
get in line, it will not be a dynasty. It
will not be something we'll be talking about for ages.
I think they can be beatable checks the guy that
(26:30):
makes them unbeatable. That's where I lean into Oklahoma City
even stronger. But if Chet doesn't put on strength, if
Chet is not able to guard big or.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, or if you can make shots and he made
more last night, but he's lost his conference. Hey, Ryan,
you're you're the best. I'm actually we're gonna throw on
doctor Allan Shamrock, who's works for Purveil, works with the
Packers in a second and get his thoughts on it.
But I really appreciate you joining us, and let's let's
talk after the draft.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Okay, maybe sad day.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
All right, let's welcome in doctor Alan Shamrock. He joins
us now on the Doug Gottlib Show on Fox Sports Tradero.
He's an orthopedic sports medicine foot and ankle surgeon, and
doctor Shamrock, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Okay, so thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, I mean you and I just talked about this
earlier today. So it's not just basketball, right, Aaron Rodgers,
Kirk Cousins. Granted they're a little older, but there's been
some younger players. There's a young college player. Jalen Moore
was at Oklahoma basketball player in a pre draft workout
towards Achilles tenant. It does feel like again feels you know,
(27:36):
the numbers more, you know, it feels like there's more
of these higher volume of Achilles ten and tears than
previously at high level sports. Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I would say so.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
I mean, I would say just generally speaking, in the
population as the whole, there's certainly more Achilles Tenant ruptures.
I feel like, I don't know, we're talking about leave
athletes here, but they're also happening at increasing numbers in
the forty fifty sixty year olds, and I think a
lot of that has to do with the popularity of pickleball.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, pickleball is a killer, right. You see pickleball dudes
go down. You're like, okay, so what do you think, Like,
you work on on feet and ankles for a living,
this is what you do. What's your best guess on
why there's a higher volume of them than previously.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean it's really been interesting. I think that
the spike at the professional level on a national stage
has certainly gotten a whole lot of people interested. I
think that kind of delving into like the Orthentitic literature,
what's been published so far, there's never been a link
between having a prior calf injury or a calf strain
(28:45):
increasing your chance of having your Achilles tendon pop. I
will say though, that I mean the calf made up
of two muscles, the gas stock the solely as they
come together to form the Achilles tendon, and the muscle
and the tendon function is one unit. And I think
it passes the common sense test that if that particular
muscle tendon unit is seeing a particular load and a
(29:08):
portion of that muscle is compromised and can't take that load,
that load has to go somewhere, okay.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
So let me let me, let me help people out here,
and you tell me if this is okay. So I
trained with a guy Mart Murnovich. He was an incredible
strength and conditioning coach in southern California. And what we
would do is we wouldn't just work the gastric. We
would work the solace, okay, which is the little muscle. Right.
And so but when you go into a gym, okay,
(29:35):
people do calf races. They do everything. It's all for
the gastric. They don't do for the solace. And so
there's an imbalance there is that what's behind any of
this that they're working, they're not working both muscles and
the ligaments and tendants.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
Yeah, I mean to your point, it's certainly important to
strengthen both because, like I said, they work in conjunction
with with one another. I will say playing Devil's no
one has ever demonstrated that any sort of asymmetry between
the two can be increasing your risk of having your
your your tendon tear. But I mean it's certainly been
(30:11):
a very interesting thought.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Last thing is this and doctor Alan Shamrocks joining us
here on the Doug Goatlib Show. He works for Provea.
He's the foot and ankle surgeon for the Green Bay
Packers as well as for the Green Bay Phoenix, and
he joins us here in the Doug Goatlib Show on
Fox Sports Radio. Doc the the rehab process. We have
(30:36):
seen players football players come back sooner from it than previously.
How different is the surgery now from when you first
got into medicine.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Yeah, I mean the surgical techniques has certainly changed quite
a bit. I think previously we're making large incisions on
the back of people's ankles, which brought a lot of
wound problems, a concern for infection, and that's done a
way with more of the minimally basis surgical techniques using
smaller incisions and then various jigs the pass suitures through
(31:06):
the tendon where you don't even have to really look
at the tendon itself. And I think that is a
had the rehab process speed up relative to what we've
been doing maybe a decade decade and a half ago.
I will say though, that rehab for Achilles, it just
takes a long time. I mean I still counsel people
in the community that I mean it's going to be
(31:28):
nine to twelve months before you're back to doing whatever
sport you're doing before this happened. And then at the
collegiate a professional level, I think it's in the order
of seven to nine.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Well, the great Achilles had one weakness, it was his heel,
and you are a man who fixes those that Achilles heel. Doc.
Thanks so much for joining us. Incredible insight, and I
just I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio apps.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, Let's do something we
usually do to start a second hour, but I felt
like I want to rant about ankles and achilles, so
instead we'll do it now. We call it love and Hate.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
What did you love?
Speaker 1 (32:17):
God? I love you?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
And what did you hate?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
These play hay Is.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
It was a great weekend of sports, a hot weekend
in most of the country. What'd you love? What you hate?
Let's uh, let's start with Jay Stu, Jay Su. You
usually start with you in hating, but I know you
love some stuff.
Speaker 7 (32:35):
Thank you, Doug. I'll take it from here. Something very
special happened on Saturday night. Sam and I were witnessed
to a coworker of ours, Ryan Berschinger, get married to
his lovely bride, Audrey. I will say this and the
reason why I wanted to get it in today The
Beatles actually nailed it right, the Beatles in this song
(32:55):
all you need.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Is well, it's easey.
Speaker 7 (32:59):
I think that, like you think about it, what are
we on this planet for? What is our purpose? I
think a lot of evolutionists and Elon Musk would say
to reproduce. There are other people that say to serve
a lord. I choose love. I think we are here
to be in love. We are here to share love.
(33:21):
And I'm talking about selflessness in the purest sense. If
you truly do believe that the other person's happiness is
more important than yours, that is true love. And Ryan
Berschinger gave one of the most rememberable, dramatic wedding vows
(33:43):
I've ever seen, and there was not a dry eye
in the audience. I was teared up. Everybody was. When
you talk about your eye, yeah, we talk about somebody
that you love in that way that touches everybody. And
(34:05):
I will say this about Ryan Birschinger. I thought I
knew the guy. He's a coworker, he's one of the
most kind guys I've ever run into. But I learned
a new appreciation for the guy that I work with,
and he's one in life. He has found love And
is there anything more relatable to us in the studio
we're listening right now. We are here to love and
(34:27):
be loved. So Ryan Berschinger, congratulations. One of the greatest
experiences I've ever had on Saturday night.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Wow in life, or or at a wedding in life.
Wow Wow, It.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
Was a what do you call that transformative moment for
me and how I saw a human being and how
I want to lead the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Wow strong Okay, damn by would you love?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I always feel like I follow the heavy stuff. And
I was just gonna say I loved Saturday Night. It
was just basically summertime chill like because the game seven
wasn't until until Sunday we.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Did bomb another country kind of not all right, all right,
I guess yeah, so I'm with you. It was it
did finally feel like summer. All right, Maybe it's because
it's hot, but did finally feel like summer? But you
love that summer chill that's your.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
It's just it just it was.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I mean, you completely poop poot it with the war thing.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
But I'm sorry. I just again, like I was, Sam,
it's all summer like war? What is it good? Anyway?
What do you got?
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Are we moving on to me real quick?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yes? Yes?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Okay?
Speaker 7 (35:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
So I was also at the wedding. It was wonderful.
My love is the weekend in general. I went out
to Vegas for the first time in my life for
the Know and Rich twentieth anniversary convention and party. It
was a blast. They bawled out great great parties, you know,
pool parties, clubs, rooftop rooftop clubs, and fireworks and it
(36:12):
was a great time. I was already exhausted, went there
with Mike Lingard, the guy who runs this place.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
There and back.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
I was exhausted, ready to just be done for the weekend,
but I had this wedding to turn around for.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
And it was. It was great, great weekend overall.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
One of those really exhausting weekends, but one that you
remember with a lot of great memories with both work
and friends and work friends.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Okay, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what I'd
loved from the weekend. Kind Of interesting here, at least
to me, was Look, I think most of you guys know,
I'm not a not a big President Trump guy, but
(36:54):
I love I I think the B twelve bomber, the
stealth bomber, is the coolest thing I've ever seen in
my life, Like man creation ever, like it. It does
its job. You can't detect it. I don't know how
they fit stuff on it because it looks super thin.
I know it's kind of visually whatever. I think it's cool,
(37:15):
and uh yeah, I don't. I don't like the idea
of other people losing their lives, and I definitely don't
like the idea of being of wondering what repercussions come
from things. But uh, uh yeah, I don't know. There's
there is there is something about your country having the
absolute coolest thing to go, like, you know what, we're
(37:37):
just gonna take I I like what happens Saturday night.
So if you don't that, it's free country, you're allowed
to think that way. That's hat.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
And that was love and love.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, it's love and love. Just love for the weekends,
just love in the work end. Uh and uh liked
like Oklahoma City winning winning a championship. I understand how
they got a team. You know, look, Seattle would have
had a team had they built an arena. Didn't do it,
just the the can do attitude of Oklahoma City, which
(38:08):
that area of the city. Uh, you go to Bricktown.
The Maps project which built that arena originally wasn't doing great.
And of course the tragic, tragic hurricane Hurricane Katrina brought
them the Hornets and they built it from there. Pretty
awesome kind of American twenty first century story, The Stug
Gotlieb Show. Congrats to The Thunder Fox Sports Radio,
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotlieb Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every weekday three to five,
twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local
station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports Radio
dot com, or stream us live every day on the
iHeartRadio app by searching app asks call Hey, what up
with you? Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I hope
you're having a great day. The Doug Gottlieb Show is
(00:23):
coming to you live and direct. This is like, I
don't know what it is. Year twenty of the show,
Crazy Crazy be doing this a long time. You can.
You can download our show. You can listen to it
in podcast form. We have the special hour only podcast
Got Some Stuff off My Chest in today's podcast. Boys
(00:43):
don't know how much was cleaned up and at it,
but you'll find it interesting. For forty years, Tyrek has
been helping customers find the right tires for how, what
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Coming up next to the coming up on the Doug
Gotlib Show. We got Kevin Durant going to the Rockets
to say what I think. Ryan Hollins, who covers the
(01:05):
Rockets and he's our Fox Sports Radio NBA analyst, he'll
join us and we'll talk about it. Let me, let's
have a little discussion here. And I'm bummed at Dan's
camera's not working because I do love and we tell
you you can watch highlights of this show on YouTube.
I like having like a conversation with Dan because he's
(01:26):
been doing this a long time too. I'm not a
prisoner of the moment. I've watched this happen plenty of
times recently to know at least a little bit more
about what I'm talking about in regards to injuries and
(01:52):
this new kind of scourge of achilles tendon injuries that
is going around all of basketball but also all of sports.
Here's what I mean. So last night Tyre's Haliburton tear's
his achilles tendon, and first I just now we also
(02:18):
and I think it goes back to the Kevin Durant
and then onto the Aaron Rodgers where we now know
what it looks like, right like everybody staring at the
calf and then you see the calf kind of explode
and then you can almost see the Achilles recoil and
you're like, oh, I knew what that is. I know
(02:39):
what that is. And there were two moments this weekend
which I do think I could be wrong. You're going
to remember. I don't know where you were, but your
reaction right when the president, when we found out that
the President had bombed I ran. I guarantee all of
you were like, well I was. I remember I was
(02:59):
in at the Champion Center in Appleton, Wisconsin, watching high
school kids play at this recruiting event, and you know,
all aside. I look at my phone and some of
my friends had sent me memes. I'm like, I don't
even know, Like, what's the matter with you? Like what
are you talking about? And then I got in my
car and I'm driving and a buddy, Michael Kidd, you
believe it, and then we start talking about it. Anyway,
(03:22):
I think you're gonna remember the NBA Finals, maybe for
Halliburton's game winner in Game one, I guess because of
the thunder winning in Game seven. But I think the
most memorable moment is going to be I'm tearing his
achilles tendon. And I've the great thing about this show
(03:43):
is it starts at three on the East noon in
the West, and it gives some really talented people like
Dan Patrick, like Colin Cowherd, two Pros and a cup
of Joe a chance to speak their mind and then
we can either react to that, echo their thoughts, or
maybe look at things a little bit differently. This is
(04:04):
not a basketball thing. It's a sports thing. And you're like, well,
I just you know, we watched Jason Tatum, we watched
Damian Lillard, we watched Tyrese Haliburton. Uh, those are all
basketball players. They just tore their achilles tenon. I'll add
to it that in the last week, Jalen Moore, who
played basketball at Georgia Tech and then Oklahoma, he was
(04:26):
doing pre draft workouts. He tours the achilles tennant. So
the the difference is it used to be an injury
where Dominiquilkins late in his career towards achilles tennant. It
used to be one where the wear and tear of
a long career. Maybe that's it gets brittle. It's just
overused and just goes right. It's like the rubber band
(04:46):
that gets pulled, pulled, pull pull pull, pull pulled, then
finally a right, but let's let let's let's hit the
all of the different things first. Don't do that. It's
the vaccination thing because Aaron Rodgers his that it it's
and I don't know if if if Kirk Cousins was
(05:06):
vaccinated or not. I guess as he wasn't. So let's
stop with the vaccine thing. Are we okay with Chase
stew Are you okay with me going Vaccine's not it?
I'm gonna go, yes, Vaccine's not it. If we do
the overuseed thing, you're like, okay. Well, they do play
(05:31):
a couple more playoff games than they used to, and
they're like, well, the NBA playoffs are so long. Well,
there's so long because the games are spaced out in
order to give them more rest than they used to have,
because the NBA Playoffs have always gone into June, always, always, always, always,
(05:52):
and they've always played eighty two games, and players used
to always play eighty two games, and the medical treatment
after the games has gotten better, not worse. So I
don't buy the they play more games they used to,
not really. Tyres Haliburton played seventy three games this year
Jason Tatum, and I know he and Haliburton were on
the Olympic team, but neither of them really played that much.
(06:15):
Now there is extensive work and whatever. But okay, Damian
Lillard again. Then you go to football, Uh, what was
the what's the running back of the Rams who a
couple of years ago towards Achilles ten cam Akers? I
give you Jalen Moore, I give you cam Akers. There's
also what's the guard? Who was San Antonio Atlanta tore
(06:40):
his this year? Right? Jean Murray was Jontay Murray towards coast.
So it's not age. I don't believe it's games played.
Jantay Murray played deep in the playoffs. He haven't played
a lot of games. He's young. Jalen Moore's not played
in the NBA. You know, I played college basketball season,
a couple of college basketball seasons. I don't by the
(07:00):
it's the number of games thing. I Also I've heard
people go like, well, it's the all of them are
when guys take that kind of reverse step and then
they push off like so that people just started doing
that just now. No, that basketball has always been stressed
in your achilles tenon and again it. Quarterbacks have always
(07:22):
gone back and taken that negative step and planted and thrown.
There's always that pressure on achilles tendon. Only now it
seems like there's more guys. So it wasn't the vaccine.
Please stop with its low tops, Stop with its low tops.
There's never been a study that shows that high tops
(07:42):
protect you from anything, especially an achilles tenant. To wear
high tops, okay, and put your toe down and plant
and there's zero difference, none in the pressure on your
achilles ten and wearing high tops. There used to be
a shoe and I'm a basketball shoe guy. I've worn
(08:04):
I have tried them all. And I think Buyer might
be the only other human being in the world who
remembers this because he's also Midwest guy. Do you remember
there was the Converse weapons, but they also had the
y bar Did you ever remember the y bar ones?
They were like weapons that had an ankle brace, almost
like inserted into it.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
No, No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah, now remember Dan Marino towards achilles tenon, right, So
it had happened before. It's just a volume of them,
and now it's not reserved for older players. Now you've
got younger players doing it. I don't believe it's the
stinkers because the Sneker technology is way better. It doesn't
(08:47):
make any sense, right, I mean, like we used to
play air Force ones. Used to be basketball snakers. People
used to play in air Force ones. I played air
Force ones. By the way, air Force two remarkably underrated shoe.
But the technology wasn't better then than it is now,
so that doesn't make any sense. Please don't say it's Nike.
(09:10):
Haliburton was wearing pumas Lillard was wearing Adidas. So again,
let's in order to figure out what it is, we
have to cross off what it's not. I don't believe
it's too many games, because they're playing the same number
of regular season games only I don't know if any
of these guys play. No nobody plays eighty two games anymore,
(09:31):
and they used to always play eighty two games, and
they didn't used to tear their achilles tenants. That doesn't
make any sense. They've added a handful of games to
the playoffs, right, first round used to be three, then
it was five, now it's seven. But again, guys have
torn their achilles tennants in the regular season. That doesn't
make any sense. You can say, well, these guys are
so much bigger and stronger up top top heavy, Haliburton's not.
That doesn't make sense, right, So we're trying to get
(09:56):
to what it is. What it's not is I it's
not vaccine, it's not too many games, it's not the sneakers,
and it's also happened in football. I don't think it's
nutrition because people eat better than it what it was.
(10:17):
So here's my best guess. Okay, here's my best guess.
I think we're building bodies the wrong way. I do.
I think we're building bodies the wrong It's the only
possible we're building by the wrong way. And then I
think there's a portion of it which I wonder. I
don't know. All of this is hypotheses, and I didn't
pay attention a lot in school. I'm not sitting here
(10:39):
trying to brag. I do remember the difference between hypotheses
and theory. A theory is something that has proven scientifically
through a study. Hypothesis is something that you wonder that
has some sort of facts behind it, but it is
yet to be scientifically proven. My hypothesis for why there
is just so many recent Achilles ten and tears instead
(11:02):
of one every couple of years too. Now we got
three star players in the playoffs and I've gone through
two star quarterbacks the last two years. I've torn it
and we could go through a litany of guys. It
never happened before at this volume. If you say it did,
your lying. But they're playing the same number of games
in the NBA at a couple of playoff games. That's it.
(11:28):
I'm torn in terms of the only play one sport thing,
right because Aaron Rodgers didn't just play one sport. A
lot of these guys play multiple sports growing up. But
there is the specialization to it. So is it the
specialization and taking time off in the offseason that allows
you to build your body? Maybe maybe you know it
(11:50):
trains other muscles so it protects it. I guess that
could be it. I also think there's a part of
me that says basketball players now, when I played, and
you know, I finished playing in college in two thousands,
I finished playing professionally in two thousand and three, Okay,
But when I played, and how I was brought up
(12:10):
with my dad, who was a Jay, was a walk
on JV player in college is basketball players play basketball.
I played basketball all the time, even when I played baseball,
even when I play football, even when I played tennis.
I would always play basketball when I when I played
in the summer, you'd go home and yeah, I'd work
out my dad and I would shoot, but I would
(12:31):
always play. You go up to UCLA, you play pickup games.
We go to Columbus test and Gym and we get
the guys. Or I'd go down to to UH Newport
and now it's pacifica Christian's gym, but it's the West
Newport gym. And that was like Scottie Brooks and Todd
Murphy and all the U. C Irvine guys that were pros.
(12:52):
I'd hop in with them, or at Los Cabriiros. We
played basketball the time. Yeah, we lift weights, we work
with trainers, but we played basketball. Now in the off season,
nobody plays five on five very little. You know, you'll
see those there's that gym in I think it's like
an LA Fitness in New York, where they'll play a
little bit, but for the most part, everybody's got their
trainer and everybody does cone drills. And I'm not sure
(13:12):
if that doesn't build your body in a way along
with the trainers that is so sports specific and so
that it's not functioning like it functions in a game.
Then you get into a game and suddenly there's an imbalance.
It's got to be the way in which we're constructing
these bodies. They're more explosive, they have greater endurance, they
(13:32):
have great lotteral quickness, they're just better in terms of
their performance, but they also break down more. I don't
think there's anybody that can that can deny that. So
my hypothesis is it is not the vacs. It is
not too many games. And by the way, they're never
(13:53):
going to have fewer games. Stop at Colin again, We've
told you that before. The one thing that sports is
never going to do. They're never going to take away
games because that takes away money. And it's not just
the league, it's the players, like, hey, do you want
to play less games? Yes? Do you want to make
less money? Nope? Doesn't work that way. But there is
(14:13):
there's nothing that tells us it's too many games. It's
got to be something else. And my best guess is
how we construct bodies. I am my trainer who was
Troy Palamalu's trainer, and others, the late Marv Vinovich. Okay,
anybody who's in sports note Todd Marv was different, but
Marvel was incredible. He worked on your ligaments and your
(14:35):
tendons as well as your nervous system and making it
all together. I don't think people do that. I think
people work on balance, and they work on explosiveness. They
work on the big and the little muscles, But I
don't know if they work on the ligaments and tents
and how it all works together. Byer, do you have
any hypotheses you'd like to share as to what happens?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
No?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
And I just think that your at least expertise. I
don't know how you want to put it. Your connections,
your job is much more educated than anything that I
could bring up. I just on a surface level, wondered
if you know, if it was a strength training thing
or a lack of strength training that we're going through,
(15:14):
is it? You know, were those sort of maybe reasons
why we're seeing it more. It's also funny too, is
I've mentioned on the show on Sunday of we now
kind of have this eerie feel when it comes to
a calf strain of what could happen. And while we
thought that Halliburton was you know, made it through the
woods because he got through Game six, he obviously wasn't.
And I just think now going forward, yeah, we're going
(15:37):
to look at the injury even more differently than we
did entering this game seven. But it was already there
with Tatum and Lillard and Kevin Durant in twenty nineteen.
But you would know a lot more about it, especially
on how you know these athletes are training.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
I don't. I talked to I talked to doctor Shamrock
with Packers today and he told me, like you said,
they now they now believe that the cap strains it's
a weakness. They don't know whether the cap strain is
really it's really an achilles strain or more he said,
more likely. It just means there's gonna be more pressure
on the achilles and that's what leads to it. But again,
(16:13):
what leads to the more cap strains and the weaker
achilles or all that pressure.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
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Speaker 1 (16:33):
Doug Gottlieb Show Fox Sports Radio. Surely have the short
podcast be going? I' you be missaying today's show. Check
got the podcast? Just search Doug Gotbery your podcast. Be
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search s dotugtlibery your podcast.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Let's welcome in Ryan Hollins. He's our Fox Sports Radio
NBA analyst's former NBA player, and he is also the
color analyst for the Houston Rockets TV network. He joins
me on the Doug Gottlieb Show. Ryan, Let's let's let's
start with the the Achilles thing. It's happened in football too,
(17:06):
and guys used to play eighty two games. They do
not now, So I don't I don't think it's just
a basketball thing. I don't think it's a too many
games thing, because they actually most of these guys don't
play as many games as they used to play. What
do you think is behind so many of these achilles
ten in tears? You're ready?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
You're ready for my answer? Don Yes, obviously clearing fun.
Guys have to take care of their body. Oh that's
first and foremost. Your Your body is your temple. You
cannot avoid that, and it is it is a business. Also,
you know, the game is played at a pace that
it's never been played at before. And in my strong,
(17:51):
strong opinion, let's get to the nuts and bolts of it. Also,
the skill set of the NBA player has gone up
and the moves that these guys make to create separation.
What's a different torque on your body than it did
in the past. So, Doug, as a point guard, what
were you taught one of the keyest moves you would
(18:11):
have done?
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right?
Speaker 3 (18:12):
Wonderable pull up right, wondrible pull up right one, drible
pull up left, right, wonderbul hard drive to defender, pull
up and shoot. You know what these guys are drilled
on now, step back, step back, sidestep. Those moves put
in the I minse amount of torque on your body.
You have to train for those moves. They're not training
(18:33):
for those moves. They are doing it on top of
the abundance of games that they are playing. And for
a star player, these guys are going through these moves,
I mean hundreds of times per night if you are
a young teams, per practice per game. That's a huge
part of it. So now the science and technology has
(18:54):
to fix to where you know, these guys are going
to be sufficiently trained to make a lot of these
moves and real quick, I will say this, the superstar players,
that the role players are doing these moves now, where
this was just superstar players making those moves in the past.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Okay, except for uh my pushback would be this. Okay,
that move edition of the step back. And you're you're
not not as old as I am. Do you know
who really invented the step back?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Talk to me, Talk to me, Doug.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Ucla legend, kiki vanduwy. It used to be called when
I was a kid, it used to be called a
kiki right and then the guy, the guy who perfected
it was Steph Curry again and again. I understand limited
sample size. You're talking about two guys, neither of them
toward their achilles. It is interesting you talk about step backs.
(19:50):
Two who three who did tear their achilles? The throw
all three in the playoffs. I mean Damian Lillard, he's
a stide step and step back. Same thing with Jason Tatum,
same thing obviously with Haliburton. But why does it happen
in football? Why has it happened to running backs in football.
I gotta think it's got to be how we're building
(20:11):
guy's bodies. Because even Lillar, like Lillard boxes in the offseason, right,
he takes care of his body. Jason Tatum takes care
of like those guys take really good care of their bodies.
I'm just wondering if it's not how we're building our
muscle and if we're training the achilles, if we're training
the ligaments and the tendons as must as we're training
the big muscles.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Let me, let me slip this back to you you
at first, and also keeping the way that Kiki did
this step back was different because of his size. Okay,
these are different moves now because there's sport going forward,
there's court going back, and there there's sport going right
back forward. How many guys or how many drills have
(20:53):
you ever seen guys train that. You've seen them work
on defensive slides, You've seen band movement, you've seen side steps,
but you haven't seen that movement. That movement's not being trained.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I think it is. But okay, okay, I mean no, no, no.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
Stay with me.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
But we we trained sideways, we trained forward. But how
many times have you seen forward back and then back
forward because you've got to stay on balance into your shot.
I've never I've never seen it trained, Doug. It's something
you're gonna have. It have to add into it.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
You're talking about you're talking, you're ting about, you're talking
about training with you're talking about training with with like
like weights and like workout not on the.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Absolutely those actual movements, and we do all those movements
for everything else. But it's such a prevalent part of
the game, and we're not addressing it correct. We're getting
We're getting real nerdy right now, Doug.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
We're really no, no, no, you know, honestly, this is
way more interesting than anything else. It's it's way more interesting.
Like it completely changed the playoffs. Jason ten doesn't get hurt.
I don't think the Pacers get there right, and or
the you know, I don't know if the Knicks close
him out. It's it's very easy to go like, oh yeah,
the Knicks were dominating that series anyway, there win that
(22:10):
game anyway, like I maybe for sure or or you know,
or maybe not right, and you know, Lillard doesn't get hurt.
The whole playoffs are different. They just are so and
then of course last night's game, it's and it's interesting.
You know, Kirk Cousins just tore his Aaron Rodgers the
year before, his kid named Jalen Moore, who's was at Oklahoma,
(22:31):
who's getting ready for the NBA Draft, just tore his
you know. And he's a he's a wing, he's not
a guard. So I'm just it's super interesting. Uh oh,
it was interesting until he hung up on us. That's
that that. We'll we'll get him back. Here's what we're
gonna do. We're gonna take quick. Oh he's back. Okay,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
I'm here, I don't know this, but but here's the thing,
Doug with Lillard, you know, he came back too soon
from the clock. He probably is conditioning. Whatever it was
was it there. We knew Aliburn shouldn't been out there, bro.
So so those two you can kind of see coming.
It's it's Tatum is the one. We're questioning it and
why he's happening. And like Doug, like you can't hide anymore.
(23:09):
Like like like back in the day, if the barn
the plutguard had to be a he had to pick
up ninety four feet. Doug and then if you are injured,
go barb the spot up shooting in the corner more
spot up shooters. Doug Nieman's running off screens and making
plays like like like the other guys will be topping
(23:31):
his hidden step back threes, Miles Turners hidden. You can't
hide in the NBA no more, Doug. That's the reality.
And then you gotta be busy on the other hand
making those plays. And that's what these guys are getting hurt.
You get hide.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Ryan Hollans, our guests, You're on the Doug Oatlieb Show
on Fox Sports Radio. Is Oklahoma City? How would you
rate them in terms of champions in comparison to other
champions in our lifetime?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Who does? That's? That's so because I can't, I cannot.
I cannot have this nostalgic bias towards Kobe Bryant, towards
Michael Jordan, towards Larry Bird, towards Lebron James, because these
kids are young and I haven't seen them the way
they've done it before. I cannot deny the numbers. Although
(24:22):
I'm not ready to jump off a bridge for SGA,
but I cannot deny the season that he has had
and the way that he's gotten busy against every team
in the league. No, he hasn't done it the way
that I've loved it. But did Kobe Bryant falbeate? Of course?
You know, if you guard Kobe in your hand was
in the Sookie jar, it was gonna draw that. You
knew if you're too close to Kobe.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
And it is different, though, it's different. Though it's different though,
like what he does. There's a difference between driving in
and creating contact and grabbing somebody pulling them into you,
you know, I mean, it's it's different than anybody who
says all these guys shot free throws, none of them
would grab to somebody's arm, pull them into them, and
then throw up their hands and pretend they were found.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
I agree, I agree, You're not wrong. I don't want
to pull away from them, but I don't want to
finalize this guy. I'm in between Doug and I need
to see him do it two or three more times.
W farm just fall in and I think the chance
for him to have to do it is not And
keep in mind, like the ball was in his hands
(25:25):
for the majority of it. It wasn't like, you know,
like he took nights off and Jay Williams had that
one forty point game and they were really good to find,
like for the most part, when they need, like the
balls in his hands. For me, the key for it
to continue to move forward the way it does. That
will continue to sell me, because I like, I'm not
fully sold that I'm sold. I got respect for what
(25:46):
he does. I don't want to take away from SGA.
The thing that will sell me is the improvement of
Check Hoongern. And I think that if he puts on weight,
he continues to get stronger. He's the guy that creates
a dynasty for Oklahoma City right now. If he's planning
against a big if he has to rebound against somebody
with size, he can get thrown around a little bit.
(26:08):
But if he can play in space, he's beaten shots
off the glass. Dude, he can shoot, he can dribble.
There's a lot that Check can do. I think Checks
that unicorn okay, that takes them to the next level
that makes it a dynasty or not. If Chet doesn't
get in line, it will not be a dynasty. It
will not be something we'll be talking about for ages.
I think they can be beatable checks the guy that
(26:30):
makes them unbeatable. That's where I lean into Oklahoma City
even stronger. But if Chet doesn't put on strength, if
Chet is not able to guard big or.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, or if you can make shots and he made
more last night, but he's lost his conference. Hey, Ryan,
you're you're the best. I'm actually we're gonna throw on
doctor Allan Shamrock, who's works for Purveil, works with the
Packers in a second and get his thoughts on it.
But I really appreciate you joining us, and let's let's
talk after the draft.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Okay, maybe sad day.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
All right, let's welcome in doctor Alan Shamrock. He joins
us now on the Doug Gottlib Show on Fox Sports Tradero.
He's an orthopedic sports medicine foot and ankle surgeon, and
doctor Shamrock, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
Okay, so thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yeah, I mean you and I just talked about this
earlier today. So it's not just basketball, right, Aaron Rodgers,
Kirk Cousins. Granted they're a little older, but there's been
some younger players. There's a young college player. Jalen Moore
was at Oklahoma basketball player in a pre draft workout
towards Achilles tenant. It does feel like again feels you know,
(27:36):
the numbers more, you know, it feels like there's more
of these higher volume of Achilles ten and tears than
previously at high level sports. Is that accurate?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I would say so.
Speaker 6 (27:48):
I mean, I would say just generally speaking, in the
population as the whole, there's certainly more Achilles Tenant ruptures.
I feel like, I don't know, we're talking about leave
athletes here, but they're also happening at increasing numbers in
the forty fifty sixty year olds, and I think a
lot of that has to do with the popularity of pickleball.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, pickleball is a killer, right. You see pickleball dudes
go down. You're like, okay, so what do you think, Like,
you work on on feet and ankles for a living,
this is what you do. What's your best guess on
why there's a higher volume of them than previously.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
Yeah, I mean it's really been interesting. I think that
the spike at the professional level on a national stage
has certainly gotten a whole lot of people interested. I
think that kind of delving into like the Orthentitic literature,
what's been published so far, there's never been a link
between having a prior calf injury or a calf strain
(28:45):
increasing your chance of having your Achilles tendon pop. I
will say though, that I mean the calf made up
of two muscles, the gas stock the solely as they
come together to form the Achilles tendon, and the muscle
and the tendon function is one unit. And I think
it passes the common sense test that if that particular
muscle tendon unit is seeing a particular load and a
(29:08):
portion of that muscle is compromised and can't take that load,
that load has to go somewhere, okay.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
So let me let me, let me help people out here,
and you tell me if this is okay. So I
trained with a guy Mart Murnovich. He was an incredible
strength and conditioning coach in southern California. And what we
would do is we wouldn't just work the gastric. We
would work the solace, okay, which is the little muscle. Right.
And so but when you go into a gym, okay,
(29:35):
people do calf races. They do everything. It's all for
the gastric. They don't do for the solace. And so
there's an imbalance there is that what's behind any of
this that they're working, they're not working both muscles and
the ligaments and tendants.
Speaker 6 (29:48):
Yeah, I mean to your point, it's certainly important to
strengthen both because, like I said, they work in conjunction
with with one another. I will say playing Devil's no
one has ever demonstrated that any sort of asymmetry between
the two can be increasing your risk of having your
your your tendon tear. But I mean it's certainly been
(30:11):
a very interesting thought.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Last thing is this and doctor Alan Shamrocks joining us
here on the Doug Goatlib Show. He works for Provea.
He's the foot and ankle surgeon for the Green Bay
Packers as well as for the Green Bay Phoenix, and
he joins us here in the Doug Goatlib Show on
Fox Sports Radio. Doc the the rehab process. We have
(30:36):
seen players football players come back sooner from it than previously.
How different is the surgery now from when you first
got into medicine.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
Yeah, I mean the surgical techniques has certainly changed quite
a bit. I think previously we're making large incisions on
the back of people's ankles, which brought a lot of
wound problems, a concern for infection, and that's done a
way with more of the minimally basis surgical techniques using
smaller incisions and then various jigs the pass suitures through
(31:06):
the tendon where you don't even have to really look
at the tendon itself. And I think that is a
had the rehab process speed up relative to what we've
been doing maybe a decade decade and a half ago.
I will say though, that rehab for Achilles, it just
takes a long time. I mean I still counsel people
in the community that I mean it's going to be
(31:28):
nine to twelve months before you're back to doing whatever
sport you're doing before this happened. And then at the
collegiate a professional level, I think it's in the order
of seven to nine.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Well, the great Achilles had one weakness, it was his heel,
and you are a man who fixes those that Achilles heel. Doc.
Thanks so much for joining us. Incredible insight, and I
just I really appreciate your time.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio apps.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio, Let's do something we
usually do to start a second hour, but I felt
like I want to rant about ankles and achilles, so
instead we'll do it now. We call it love and Hate.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
What did you love?
Speaker 1 (32:17):
God? I love you?
Speaker 4 (32:19):
And what did you hate?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
These play hay Is.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
It was a great weekend of sports, a hot weekend
in most of the country. What'd you love? What you hate?
Let's uh, let's start with Jay Stu, Jay Su. You
usually start with you in hating, but I know you
love some stuff.
Speaker 7 (32:35):
Thank you, Doug. I'll take it from here. Something very
special happened on Saturday night. Sam and I were witnessed
to a coworker of ours, Ryan Berschinger, get married to
his lovely bride, Audrey. I will say this and the
reason why I wanted to get it in today The
Beatles actually nailed it right, the Beatles in this song
(32:55):
all you need.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Is well, it's easey.
Speaker 7 (32:59):
I think that, like you think about it, what are
we on this planet for? What is our purpose? I
think a lot of evolutionists and Elon Musk would say
to reproduce. There are other people that say to serve
a lord. I choose love. I think we are here
to be in love. We are here to share love.
(33:21):
And I'm talking about selflessness in the purest sense. If
you truly do believe that the other person's happiness is
more important than yours, that is true love. And Ryan
Berschinger gave one of the most rememberable, dramatic wedding vows
(33:43):
I've ever seen, and there was not a dry eye
in the audience. I was teared up. Everybody was. When
you talk about your eye, yeah, we talk about somebody
that you love in that way that touches everybody. And
(34:05):
I will say this about Ryan Birschinger. I thought I
knew the guy. He's a coworker, he's one of the
most kind guys I've ever run into. But I learned
a new appreciation for the guy that I work with,
and he's one in life. He has found love And
is there anything more relatable to us in the studio
we're listening right now. We are here to love and
(34:27):
be loved. So Ryan Berschinger, congratulations. One of the greatest
experiences I've ever had on Saturday night.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Wow in life, or or at a wedding in life.
Wow Wow, It.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
Was a what do you call that transformative moment for
me and how I saw a human being and how
I want to lead the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Wow strong Okay, damn by would you love?
Speaker 2 (35:02):
I always feel like I follow the heavy stuff. And
I was just gonna say I loved Saturday Night. It
was just basically summertime chill like because the game seven
wasn't until until Sunday we.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Did bomb another country kind of not all right, all right,
I guess yeah, so I'm with you. It was it
did finally feel like summer. All right, Maybe it's because
it's hot, but did finally feel like summer? But you
love that summer chill that's your.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
It's just it just it was.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I mean, you completely poop poot it with the war thing.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
But I'm sorry. I just again, like I was, Sam,
it's all summer like war? What is it good? Anyway?
What do you got?
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Are we moving on to me real quick?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yes? Yes?
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Okay?
Speaker 7 (35:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
So I was also at the wedding. It was wonderful.
My love is the weekend in general. I went out
to Vegas for the first time in my life for
the Know and Rich twentieth anniversary convention and party. It
was a blast. They bawled out great great parties, you know,
pool parties, clubs, rooftop rooftop clubs, and fireworks and it
(36:12):
was a great time. I was already exhausted, went there
with Mike Lingard, the guy who runs this place.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
There and back.
Speaker 5 (36:19):
I was exhausted, ready to just be done for the weekend,
but I had this wedding to turn around for.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
And it was. It was great, great weekend overall.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
One of those really exhausting weekends, but one that you
remember with a lot of great memories with both work
and friends and work friends.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Okay, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what I'd
loved from the weekend. Kind Of interesting here, at least
to me, was Look, I think most of you guys know,
I'm not a not a big President Trump guy, but
(36:54):
I love I I think the B twelve bomber, the
stealth bomber, is the coolest thing I've ever seen in
my life, Like man creation ever, like it. It does
its job. You can't detect it. I don't know how
they fit stuff on it because it looks super thin.
I know it's kind of visually whatever. I think it's cool,
(37:15):
and uh yeah, I don't. I don't like the idea
of other people losing their lives, and I definitely don't
like the idea of being of wondering what repercussions come
from things. But uh, uh yeah, I don't know. There's
there is there is something about your country having the
absolute coolest thing to go, like, you know what, we're
(37:37):
just gonna take I I like what happens Saturday night.
So if you don't that, it's free country, you're allowed
to think that way. That's hat.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
And that was love and love.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah, it's love and love. Just love for the weekends,
just love in the work end. Uh and uh liked
like Oklahoma City winning winning a championship. I understand how
they got a team. You know, look, Seattle would have
had a team had they built an arena. Didn't do it,
just the the can do attitude of Oklahoma City, which
(38:08):
that area of the city. Uh, you go to Bricktown.
The Maps project which built that arena originally wasn't doing great.
And of course the tragic, tragic hurricane Hurricane Katrina brought
them the Hornets and they built it from there. Pretty
awesome kind of American twenty first century story, The Stug
Gotlieb Show. Congrats to The Thunder Fox Sports Radio,
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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