June 2, 2025 • 28 mins
Doug's conversation with The Athletic's Senior Media Columnist Andrew Marchand about the NBA Finals and the end of Inside the NBA as we know it. Doug reacts to Dan Beyer's take on the Knicks. Doug chooses among deserving candidates Jason Stewart deems as most annoying today. Plus, Shaq makes today's installment of "Because We Can".
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, this is the Doug Gottlieb Show. Here's in
the bonus with Doug Gottlieb.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Doug Gottlieb Show. In the Bonus Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio App. Hey,
welcome in. Oh, how are you? What's going on? How's
your day? This is the Doug gottlib Show. It's Fox
Sports Radio, iHeartRadio App. Welcome in. You know, instead of
(00:34):
doing the thing that most sports radio hosts do, which
is you ask questions and you don't know the answer,
and guys do one of two things. There they go
I don't know, or they spit out ship that they
they don't it's not factually accurate because they didn't call somebody. Instead, here,
we're gonna We're gonna call Andrew Marshan. He's gonna join us. Obviously,
you know his work with The Athletic He's a senior writer.
(00:55):
Hecover sports bad he also has the Andrew Marshan dot Com.
That's where can go for his podcast, and he covers
sports media. But more than anything, he kind of has
a way better sense of how and why things work. So, Andrew,
thanks for taking so much time, and I want to
get to some inside the NBA talk in a second.
But let's start with the NBA Finals. Okay, the dates
(01:16):
are pre set, right, Everything else in the playoffs is
determined based upon It's like a we call it and coaching.
If this, then that right. If the series goes five,
then the next series starts now, and it's like usually
a day off maybe two days off in between. Now,
because both series finished early, there's this long lead up
(01:39):
to it and then there's substantial gap in between. Now,
I know it's done because they think that gets more
people to watch. But give me the theory behind why.
It's why it's pushed back to June. Why it starts
at set dates?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, I mean, number one, they want the windows to
be right, So start on that Thursday night. You know,
traditionally that's the most watched day of the week, and
then the Sunday night is also a very well watched day.
So that's the major reason. And then just I do
(02:14):
think even though they don't know where it's gonna be,
they can line up some sponsorship opportunities. In the NHL,
they do it differently. They pushed up there the Stanley
Cup Finals based off of the series ending. Quicker, I
don't know. I think there's probably some validity to you know,
(02:34):
either way, but I personally kind of prefer the Stanley Cup.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You prefer the Stanley Cup style. I mean, I think
most people do. Okay, So I guess I heard Adam
Silver say this maybe a year ago, and he was like, hey,
we got to look at different start times because people's
viewing habits are different. Are viewing habits different now in
terms of Thursday and Sunday night.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I mean they're different just throughout, you know, based off
of you know, streaming and the way people watch, especially
younger people. I mean, the biggest issue facing to me
these leagues are not the biggest, but one of the
biggest in terms of media is that younger people don't
(03:23):
watch the way we did or the next generation or
the generation prior to us. And historically, you know, one
generation just kind of fills in the next generation in
terms of watching sports since you know, probably starting in
the eighties till now. But now this next generation is
kind of the TikTok Instagram social media generation and douglan
(03:48):
we are kids. If you want to watch Michael Jordan,
you had to either tune in to NBC at one
o'clock or if you miss that, maybe your local news
you've got to be on time. In five twenty four
you are a sports center or CNN tonight when they
have the Sports Show. So those are the ways that
you can watch. And now I think the biggest issue
is that, you know, kids don't necessarily if you if
(04:10):
you miss the game live, you just see the highlights.
So I think it's the bigger question than just the
finals in terms of getting younger people especially to watch.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, no, I'm with you. I think the whole thing
is is fascinating. Okay, so this is the last year
of the old TV deal with the NBA. Before we
get to the inside of the NBA, what does NBC have,
What does Amazon have? What does ESPN? ABC have? Moving forward?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
So ABC and ESPN kept the finals every year, so
you are going to see the finals exactly the same way.
They also have a conference final ten of the eleven years.
The other conference finals rotate every other year between NBC
and Amazon, and so that's where you'll your conference finals.
(05:02):
Then the playoffs. The rest of the playoffs is basically
a third each and will be the same every season.
Then what's gonna change is how you watch the regular season,
at least nationally on Monday's Peacock, we'll have a doubleheader
on Tuesday. That's kind of interesting. NBC National on broadcast
will have one game, but they'll do it differently. It'll
(05:25):
be regional, so if you're in the East, you'll get
a let's say, a Nick Celtics game starting at eight o'clock,
and then in the West ten thirty you might get
a Lakers Clippers game, and then you'll be able to
watch those games regardless if you have Peacock. Then Wednesday, Thursday,
and Friday are split up between ESPN, and then also
(05:48):
Saturday and Amazon, and then Sunday after Sunday Nights Football
will have NBC will have Sunday Night Basketball. It's another
primetime game on NBC. So I think, you know, people
like in TNC did a great job, and you know
they're all for a lot of us. They were a
law you know, we watched them forever. But I do
(06:09):
think we talked five years from now will be very
used to probably satisfied with the arrangement that the NBA
came up with.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Inside the NBA, we were just talking about it off air.
We've been talking about it on air. What what does
the sub license, what's the sub license? What does the
licensing agreement look like? In terms of commercial breaks, oversight,
use of highlights, what's that look like.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I think you're gonna see the same show as you've
seen previously. That's what ESPN has done. I mean, I
think if you look at Pat McAfee's show, that's the
licensing agreement. I think anybody who takes any attention to
Pat McAfee can tell he has full control of that program.
That's not ESPN telling him what to do. They have
(06:59):
more and telling them what to do. And so I
think when you look at inside the NBA, it's gonna
be the same people. All of them are going to
be back, Ernie, Chuck, Shack and Kenny all going back.
The production people behind the scenes are gonna be the same.
It's gonna be taped in Atlanta. So I don't think
it's gonna be that different. I know, Bill Simmons, that's
something about the commercial time. Yeah, you know, during the
(07:22):
NBA Finals is where really it's stuck out over the years.
And if they do it the way they've done it,
I do think you will not get much analysis at
a halftime. You'll have them just joking about them being
on for ninety seconds, which was funny. If it wasn't
you know, the iconic inside the NBA. So I think
(07:46):
the idea that it's gonna be a different show is
just misplaced. And I think if we're talking a year
from now, will be like, no, it was the same
show he was on ESPN. Maybe felt a little different,
you know, there could be the commercial breaks could be
somewhat different. It's not like tn T is not selling commercials.
And I think postgame is where they really uh, you know,
(08:06):
bread their butter and the way that's gonna work. If
the game's on EBC and they finish up and they
go to local news, it will just move to ESPN.
Obviously ESPs a lot of commitments from MAYBESPN two, and
then if it's an ESPN game and it will be
the post game Show. So I do think there's a
lot of people kind of speculating on a lot of
things and you have to see it play out. But
(08:27):
the idea that Steven A or somebody is going to
become a regular and inside the NBA, that's not I
don't foresee that happening. First Off, the show's gonna be
in Atlanta, so it's not it's not like it's in
New Yorker in Bristol, Connecticut, where ESPN is located. So
I think it will be the same as it's been.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Okay, stan Van Gundy, does he go with Reggie or
is he invited to go with Reggie to Amazon?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Reggie to NBC? Uh, Regil Yeah, yeah, Reggie Miller to
NBC and stan Van Gundy, I reported, is going to Amazon.
You know, he probably worked with Iron Eagle and that
Number one crew, although they talk to other people. I
could see them doing something similar to what D and
T does. You know when you get to the conference final.
(09:19):
Maybe Wayne Wade, who's going to be a part of
their production, maybe he gets added to the top team.
They had interest in Richard Jefferson as well, and still
need he can happen, but probably not. I think it's
more likely he ends up remaining at ESPN. And so yeah,
I mean, Reggie hangs on goes NBC. They made it
(09:39):
clear he's not the Number one necessarily. They have Jamal
Crawford as well, and I think they're all sort of
trying to see if anybody else shakes free. I mean
Steve Kerr, for example, he hasn't really I don't think,
shown too much sign of not wanting to coach anymore.
But if he did, he'd be at the top of
I think all three the networks and maybe they'd all
(10:03):
want Steve Kerr. There's a couple others probably could involve
in that category. You know. I think the big question
does the Steph Curry Lebron Jeans. Is there a Brady
type deal for one of those guys. I think that's
something to watch. I'm not sure there is, but you know,
they're definitely because they can just do the production stuff,
they don't necessarily have to do games. It's different than
the NFL. But that's something definitely that long term over
(10:26):
these next eleven years of these contracts.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
To watch, what will Michael Jordan's contributions be.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Like, I don't think it would be that much. You know,
it was It's a good move by NBC. You know,
you want Jordans involved in any way you can. You know,
this is very inside baseball for people, but you know
they had they made the announcement during the upfronts, and
the upfronts are where all the networks they make their
(10:54):
pitches for the year to the advertisers, so they usually
try to make big announcements. They made the Jordan announcement,
but Jordan wasn't even there, And I Doug imagine this
like Jordan's probably for something like that to be to
fly up there, but probably could get two to three
million dollars, maybe five million, who knows that, you know,
definitely millions, and he could suf his private jet from
(11:16):
Carolina up to New York, get you know, do the presentation,
get back, you know, go to the airport, go back.
And he didn't. He didn't show up. He just did
a video. So I don't think he's gonna do that
much when he does, and likely just talk to Mike Turrico.
So he hasn't done that much in the past. It's
sort of to his discretion of what he wants to do.
(11:39):
So I don't think it's interesting, but to think that
Michael Jordan's gonna be the next Charles Barkley in terms
of TV and on every week and kind of telling
you everything he thinks. I don't think that's likely to happen.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
But here you will have to see awesome stuff as always. Man,
I can't thank enough Andrew this is so I mean,
I find it to be interesting and I'm I'm in
the know it if you will, and you know so
much more. Thank you so much for joining us on
Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Thanks, always enjoyable, appreciate it, Doug.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Let's to get to the Fox Says and Now what
Say every day this time and the dou Got Lip
Showing the Bonus Podcast. Play for your portion of previous show,
Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports One. This is uh Dan
Byer co hosting with Mike Harmon on Fox Sports Sunday,
talk about how Knicks fans should feel about their team season.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
There's this interesting line of we beat the Celtics, that's
good enough, which I don't think that the Knicks fans thought.
But what I also thought came with it, Mike was
not only did we knock off the champs, now we're
the favorites, and I don't know if some overconfidence got
into that where then now it feels like it's a fall.
(13:00):
Maybe the high point should have just been beating Boston,
Like maybe that was the ultimate cap of this and
Indiana ends up setting themselves for a run late in
the season. But like, if you were to tell the
Knicks at the beginning of the season, like, would you
take knocking off the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference
semi finals and having a magical Game six in the Garden?
(13:22):
I think that you would, like I think that you
would at that point. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't all
speak for all Knicks fans, but ultimately, that's maybe how
they need to look at how this season was, because
if they to your point of of what this line
is at minus seven to fifty with Oklahoma City, it
was minus seven oh five. If the Knicks would have advanced,
they wouldn't have had a much better chance to beat
Indiana anyway. So you know, ultimately, I guess if you're
(13:45):
a Knicks fan, it's really difficult to do. But you
may just have to take to win over the Boston
and just pack that one up and enjoy it yourself.
Because I'm not sure that they were fit for an
NBA Finals appearance.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
That's fair. I mean, like, this is what happens when
there's an injury. It causes an upset. And let's just
go back to the question, how should Knicks fans feel?
They should feel great? Feel great? They had a great year,
They're consistently playing deeper and deeper into the playoffs. Does
(14:21):
it in the moment does it feel good? Because part
of it is you look at Indies record, and if
I'm honest, I don't think Janalen Brunson played particularly well
in the sixth and deciding game, especially in key moments,
turned the basketball over and struggling to defend. And we
got in the radio show to talk about Karl Anthony
Towns and his deficiencies on defense. But again, these are
(14:43):
all despite that they were they had a very good year.
They went to six games with the Pacers in the
in the in the Eastern Conference Finals. The challenge is
going to be not just getting back to and potentially
getting beyond this point, but how do you how are
you cautious to not think that you're very, very close,
youre one piece away?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Right?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Remember, the Hawks have been here, other teams have been here,
have been able to take that next step, and they
sometimes they make gargantuan moves to try and take that
next step. Just be smart, understand your processes working and
keep plugging along. Here's Dan Patrick talking about Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
It didn't take long. It didn't take long after the
Knicks were limited on Saturday that the finger pointing has
started in New York and most of the fingers are
pointed at Carl Anthony Towns. So there were reports out
of New York suggesting the team grew increasingly frustrated with
Karl Anthony Town's defensive habits throughout the playoffs. This isn't
(15:45):
a new revelation. He's never been a good defender. And
what do you say, Marvin, He is not a big man.
He's a tall man.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Correct, Okay, right, He's not a powerful he's just a forward.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
He's really good at scoring, really good at scoring, and
he's good at letting the other team score as well.
But he's not a rim protector. Like I don't this
of all the things coming out of New York. I mean,
you gotta blame somebody. We didn't go to the finals.
So it's Karl Anthony Towns. You traded for him, You
(16:22):
knew exactly what you were getting. There's no secret. It's
not like he stopped playing defense once he got to
New York. He didn't play it in Minnesota. That's why
they had the stifled tower in there, Rudy and the
go bets. Because Carl Anthony Towns is he's a seven
foot shooting guard.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, he's off What happens is when we evaluate players,
we always evaluate them offense first, whereas in the NBA
it's who can you guard? And when we talked about
the radio show, and I think it remains it's going
to remain true, is you can't have more than one
guy that can't guard somebody on an NBA roster. We're
on the court at the same time. And that's what
(17:04):
the Knicks had. And Brunson's not a terrible defender, but
not a plus. And Carl Towns's is uh uh is
not not capable of that, just not This is LeVar
Arrington talking about Stefan Diggs in his future with Mike Vrabel.
Speaker 7 (17:27):
Keep in mind, you got to keep in mind also
in this scenario that Mike Vrabel is a former player
and he ain't a square. Let's be clear here, like
you might be dealing with some of these guys. They
might be bible thumping former player coaches and stuff like
that frown upon certain things. That ain't Mike Vrabel, That
(17:50):
ain't Mike. Mike gonna be able to relate to you.
And I ain't saying that he out here doing anything crazy.
I'm just saying, Mike, Mike kids is he's he's a guy.
He's a guy like he's one of us. He's one
of the guys. So to me, I just think that
(18:12):
he's going to air on the side of caution and
he's going to have a conversation with Stefan Diggs probably
has already at this point, has had a conversation with
Stephan Diggs. He's gotten Stephan's side of the story. They've
had their conversations, and they're going to move forward accordingly.
If you're asking me today, do I think he's going
(18:35):
to get cut, I'm going to say no.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Who Again, I understand exactly what LeVar is saying when
he says he's a guy, he's one of us. You know,
it's one of those. Okay, it makes sense, right, He's
not going to freak out. He's not a square. We
know guys party, we know guys you know, have some
form of recreational truck. Again, my issue though, is that
(19:09):
Vrabel's now a coach and he has to separate himself
from that. And for a Stefan Diggs, you're putting yourself
in that precarious position of getting cut if you're not
anywhere near what you're supposed to be as an athlete.
And then oh yeah, by the way, hey, I'm this
is my first year, your first year, you're trying to
establish what the culture is. And if the culture is, hey,
(19:30):
you know, if you're a good enough star, you can
party and do whatever. That doesn't ever work, does never work.
So yeah, I just I think it's such a bad look.
I do think there's a world there where they move
off of Stefan Diggs. I told you what I would
have done, what I would do, I would get rid
(19:53):
of Stefan Diggs. I got no problem with it, especially
in your one. All the things I've learned culture and
you're who you're a leader, ours who your team is.
But yes, Rabel has been in the league as long
as I've been doing broadcasting, so he knows what will
work and he knows what doesn't. And if he decides
not to cut him, well, then again I think the
(20:14):
guy knows what he's doing. I'm just telling you what
I would do as a coach. That's what the Fox said.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Say.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Let's find out who's annoying Jason Stewart and now.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's your annoying.
Speaker 8 (20:42):
Hey, Doug, do you know what is the term in
movies and TV? Melodramatic? You know what melodramatic is?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Sure?
Speaker 8 (20:52):
So if if I walk into the studio one day
and I just look at you your attire, and I say, oh,
you got the blue polo today? Huh? And then I
walk out, that seems to be melodramatic. It's like, are
you complimenting it?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (21:08):
Would you like to have one? Or are you making
fun of my blue polo? I get insecure about it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Sure?
Speaker 8 (21:13):
So Luka doncic Uh agreed to do Lebron James's podcast,
and Steve Nash asked him what he was surprised about
playing with Lebron.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Give me an example of a couple of things you've seen,
like being around him every day where you're like he
does that?
Speaker 6 (21:32):
Like, what's he doing over there, Like, is there anything
that stands out initially when you're like, wow, Well.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
First of all, he shows up like ten hours before
the games.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
That was really the main like I was, I came
in twenty two years, he was already don't working on
I was like, what.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So well, yeah.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
What Luca didn't do was tell us if that's something
he admires or if that's like, no way in the
fuck I'm ever gonna do that. He never followed up
on that.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Remember.
Speaker 8 (22:01):
I don't know if you ever saw the Redeemed Team documentary,
but there was a scene where Carmelo and Dwayne Wade
came to the gym at the normal time and Kobe
had already been like sweating and walking out. He got
there at four am, and the thing was then Carmelo
and Dwayne Wade showed up the next day at four am,
(22:23):
and then it became the whole team showed up at
four am. Is that what lucas saying or is he
basically saying fuck that?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well? I don't know. I mean, look, he's obviously, based
upon pictures, put himself in much better shape than he's
been in, but he's also had times like this during
his career, So it's a little bit weird. I don't
know that. It's just a hard one for me to tell,
really hard one for me to tell because Anthony Davis
(22:56):
was close friends with Lebron James and it took him
like four years than playing together before he started to
like figure it out as well. So again I think
some of it by osmosis and seeing it he's gonna do.
But Lebron is not going to drive by his house
and pick him up early in the morning, No chance.
Speaker 8 (23:16):
So Max Munsey a week ago today, Dan Bayern Blonios
were filling in for you and I as the thing
that I hate, I said that I hate Max Munsey.
He was coming off of a weekend of errors at
third base and he's sitting below the Mendoza line and
Max actually said, I'm not very good at defense right now.
(23:38):
And I said, well, Max, if you're not good at defense,
what the hell are you doing on the one up
because you're certainly not hitting. So maybe since we were
on in LA that day, maybe that was what sparked us.
But he has been on an absolute tear one two, three, four,
five home runs since I said I hate you. So
I'm going to apologize for him. I hate saying it
(24:00):
when I did, and it's annoying that it took me
saying that to him to get him to start hitting.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I think you're solely responsible though, for it, So I
don't think you should. Maybe you're annoying, but I don't
think it should be annoying. But you can also patch
yourself on the back, and all Dodger fans should patch
you in the back for what you did for the
for the.
Speaker 8 (24:19):
Club now inside the NBA. I don't know if you
saw any of this. I didn't. I don't know if
you were aware of it. But they went off the
air as a TNT entity. They had their last show
on Saturday. I don't know if you saw anything online
or on Twitter about it. So Bill Simmons had this
(24:39):
take about it.
Speaker 9 (24:41):
I think they're going to fuck the show up. I
don't think they they unless they completely change how they
do commercials. The show is going to be different and
people are going to be pissed and Barklay and those
guys are going to be pissed, and I think it's
going to go badly.
Speaker 8 (24:53):
And does anybody know how ESPN function is better than
Bill Simmons and I think he's right. And that's what's
an is that I think we did see the final
inside the NBA show because what Disney and ESPN inevitably
does to shows, and I think Pat mcafew fans are
saying the same thing. They're kind of it's kind of
(25:13):
watered down. And I don't know why that is. I
guess it's because they have, like I don't know, Disney
in their in their branding, and they have to be
a little bit more tame. You would know better than
I would.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Uh. I don't know the the I don't know how
the licensing agreement works. Okay, I will say this. I'll
defend Disney in the NBA Finals halftime show because for
whatever reason, they have to have these multiple breaks, So
they have like a ninety second and then a break,
and then a halftime segment, then a break, then a
(25:48):
halftime segment, then a break, and then some short, little
quick one and then they go back. And you're like,
why would anybody do that? And the answer is, well,
because they have to because of network tea. And what
Bill's talking about is on ESPN they have a set
break schedule, whereas on Turner they just go until they
feel like, Okay, now it's whatever. Conversation is dying down again.
(26:12):
I don't know how the agreement works. We're all operating
on this assumption that they're going to try and ESPN
ify this show. It would be stupid. It would be
stupid to do McAfee's show. I don't think anybody paid
attention to it before they got it. I think they,
(26:33):
you know, they his and hers sports Center, which you
know it butted up against any chance of getting ratings
because of how it was formatted. But again, they tried
to sports centerize if you just leave it as is,
it'll be fine. If you try and mess with it,
you'll screw it up. That part I agree with.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
Yeah, So that's annoying to me that I think we
have seen kind of the last show as it as
it was, and then Luca's comments and Max Max Mounsey
waiting until I told him I hate him to start hitting.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Uh See Luca is annoying, Max Months is annoying or
ESPN's annoying? Is that my choices?
Speaker 8 (27:26):
It's annoying that inside the NBA probably has ended as
as we are used to it.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yes, that is that. That is annoying.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Why Are we doing this because we can.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
It's almost like Shaq was listening to your annoying because
Shaq has this response and he said it on Live TV.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And to the new network we're coming to We're not
coming to f around since the last show, and I'm
gonna say it, We're not coming to fuck around, you
kicking ass who taken names? Are you taking over? Okay?
I love you guys, I appreciate you guys, but hey,
all right, let me see that number one side for
(28:14):
the number one show over on TV and we come
over and taken over that next met word too.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, he only Shack can get over that, and only
you get away that. On your last show, they got
away a lot of stuff. I think the challenge also
is going to be are they just going to do
their show? Are they going to try and get away
with stuff? And I think it's going to be a
little bit of both. Why could we play for you
because we can? That's it for the n Bones podcast.
Check out the radio show every day three to five
e's from Total two Pacific, Fox Sports Tradio. I Heart
(28:41):
Radio app I'm not got It
All right, this is the Doug Gottlieb Show. Here's in
the bonus with Doug Gottlieb.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Doug Gottlieb Show. In the Bonus Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio App. Hey,
welcome in. Oh, how are you? What's going on? How's
your day? This is the Doug gottlib Show. It's Fox
Sports Radio, iHeartRadio App. Welcome in. You know, instead of
(00:34):
doing the thing that most sports radio hosts do, which
is you ask questions and you don't know the answer,
and guys do one of two things. There they go
I don't know, or they spit out ship that they
they don't it's not factually accurate because they didn't call somebody. Instead, here,
we're gonna We're gonna call Andrew Marshan. He's gonna join us. Obviously,
you know his work with The Athletic He's a senior writer.
(00:55):
Hecover sports bad he also has the Andrew Marshan dot Com.
That's where can go for his podcast, and he covers
sports media. But more than anything, he kind of has
a way better sense of how and why things work. So, Andrew,
thanks for taking so much time, and I want to
get to some inside the NBA talk in a second.
But let's start with the NBA Finals. Okay, the dates
(01:16):
are pre set, right, Everything else in the playoffs is
determined based upon It's like a we call it and coaching.
If this, then that right. If the series goes five,
then the next series starts now, and it's like usually
a day off maybe two days off in between. Now,
because both series finished early, there's this long lead up
(01:39):
to it and then there's substantial gap in between. Now,
I know it's done because they think that gets more
people to watch. But give me the theory behind why.
It's why it's pushed back to June. Why it starts
at set dates?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Yeah, I mean, number one, they want the windows to
be right, So start on that Thursday night. You know,
traditionally that's the most watched day of the week, and
then the Sunday night is also a very well watched day.
So that's the major reason. And then just I do
(02:14):
think even though they don't know where it's gonna be,
they can line up some sponsorship opportunities. In the NHL,
they do it differently. They pushed up there the Stanley
Cup Finals based off of the series ending. Quicker, I
don't know. I think there's probably some validity to you know,
(02:34):
either way, but I personally kind of prefer the Stanley Cup.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You prefer the Stanley Cup style. I mean, I think
most people do. Okay, So I guess I heard Adam
Silver say this maybe a year ago, and he was like, hey,
we got to look at different start times because people's
viewing habits are different. Are viewing habits different now in
terms of Thursday and Sunday night.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I mean they're different just throughout, you know, based off
of you know, streaming and the way people watch, especially
younger people. I mean, the biggest issue facing to me
these leagues are not the biggest, but one of the
biggest in terms of media is that younger people don't
(03:23):
watch the way we did or the next generation or
the generation prior to us. And historically, you know, one
generation just kind of fills in the next generation in
terms of watching sports since you know, probably starting in
the eighties till now. But now this next generation is
kind of the TikTok Instagram social media generation and douglan
(03:48):
we are kids. If you want to watch Michael Jordan,
you had to either tune in to NBC at one
o'clock or if you miss that, maybe your local news
you've got to be on time. In five twenty four
you are a sports center or CNN tonight when they
have the Sports Show. So those are the ways that
you can watch. And now I think the biggest issue
is that, you know, kids don't necessarily if you if
(04:10):
you miss the game live, you just see the highlights.
So I think it's the bigger question than just the
finals in terms of getting younger people especially to watch.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, no, I'm with you. I think the whole thing
is is fascinating. Okay, so this is the last year
of the old TV deal with the NBA. Before we
get to the inside of the NBA, what does NBC have,
What does Amazon have? What does ESPN? ABC have? Moving forward?
Speaker 3 (04:38):
So ABC and ESPN kept the finals every year, so
you are going to see the finals exactly the same way.
They also have a conference final ten of the eleven years.
The other conference finals rotate every other year between NBC
and Amazon, and so that's where you'll your conference finals.
(05:02):
Then the playoffs. The rest of the playoffs is basically
a third each and will be the same every season.
Then what's gonna change is how you watch the regular season,
at least nationally on Monday's Peacock, we'll have a doubleheader
on Tuesday. That's kind of interesting. NBC National on broadcast
will have one game, but they'll do it differently. It'll
(05:25):
be regional, so if you're in the East, you'll get
a let's say, a Nick Celtics game starting at eight o'clock,
and then in the West ten thirty you might get
a Lakers Clippers game, and then you'll be able to
watch those games regardless if you have Peacock. Then Wednesday, Thursday,
and Friday are split up between ESPN, and then also
(05:48):
Saturday and Amazon, and then Sunday after Sunday Nights Football
will have NBC will have Sunday Night Basketball. It's another
primetime game on NBC. So I think, you know, people
like in TNC did a great job, and you know
they're all for a lot of us. They were a
law you know, we watched them forever. But I do
(06:09):
think we talked five years from now will be very
used to probably satisfied with the arrangement that the NBA
came up with.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Inside the NBA, we were just talking about it off air.
We've been talking about it on air. What what does
the sub license, what's the sub license? What does the
licensing agreement look like? In terms of commercial breaks, oversight,
use of highlights, what's that look like.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
I think you're gonna see the same show as you've
seen previously. That's what ESPN has done. I mean, I
think if you look at Pat McAfee's show, that's the
licensing agreement. I think anybody who takes any attention to
Pat McAfee can tell he has full control of that program.
That's not ESPN telling him what to do. They have
(06:59):
more and telling them what to do. And so I
think when you look at inside the NBA, it's gonna
be the same people. All of them are going to
be back, Ernie, Chuck, Shack and Kenny all going back.
The production people behind the scenes are gonna be the same.
It's gonna be taped in Atlanta. So I don't think
it's gonna be that different. I know, Bill Simmons, that's
something about the commercial time. Yeah, you know, during the
(07:22):
NBA Finals is where really it's stuck out over the years.
And if they do it the way they've done it,
I do think you will not get much analysis at
a halftime. You'll have them just joking about them being
on for ninety seconds, which was funny. If it wasn't
you know, the iconic inside the NBA. So I think
(07:46):
the idea that it's gonna be a different show is
just misplaced. And I think if we're talking a year
from now, will be like, no, it was the same
show he was on ESPN. Maybe felt a little different,
you know, there could be the commercial breaks could be
somewhat different. It's not like tn T is not selling commercials.
And I think postgame is where they really uh, you know,
(08:06):
bread their butter and the way that's gonna work. If
the game's on EBC and they finish up and they
go to local news, it will just move to ESPN.
Obviously ESPs a lot of commitments from MAYBESPN two, and
then if it's an ESPN game and it will be
the post game Show. So I do think there's a
lot of people kind of speculating on a lot of
things and you have to see it play out. But
(08:27):
the idea that Steven A or somebody is going to
become a regular and inside the NBA, that's not I
don't foresee that happening. First Off, the show's gonna be
in Atlanta, so it's not it's not like it's in
New Yorker in Bristol, Connecticut, where ESPN is located. So
I think it will be the same as it's been.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Okay, stan Van Gundy, does he go with Reggie or
is he invited to go with Reggie to Amazon?
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Reggie to NBC? Uh, Regil Yeah, yeah, Reggie Miller to
NBC and stan Van Gundy, I reported, is going to Amazon.
You know, he probably worked with Iron Eagle and that
Number one crew, although they talk to other people. I
could see them doing something similar to what D and
T does. You know when you get to the conference final.
(09:19):
Maybe Wayne Wade, who's going to be a part of
their production, maybe he gets added to the top team.
They had interest in Richard Jefferson as well, and still
need he can happen, but probably not. I think it's
more likely he ends up remaining at ESPN. And so yeah,
I mean, Reggie hangs on goes NBC. They made it
(09:39):
clear he's not the Number one necessarily. They have Jamal
Crawford as well, and I think they're all sort of
trying to see if anybody else shakes free. I mean
Steve Kerr, for example, he hasn't really I don't think,
shown too much sign of not wanting to coach anymore.
But if he did, he'd be at the top of
I think all three the networks and maybe they'd all
(10:03):
want Steve Kerr. There's a couple others probably could involve
in that category. You know. I think the big question
does the Steph Curry Lebron Jeans. Is there a Brady
type deal for one of those guys. I think that's
something to watch. I'm not sure there is, but you know,
they're definitely because they can just do the production stuff,
they don't necessarily have to do games. It's different than
the NFL. But that's something definitely that long term over
(10:26):
these next eleven years of these contracts.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
To watch, what will Michael Jordan's contributions be.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
Like, I don't think it would be that much. You know,
it was It's a good move by NBC. You know,
you want Jordans involved in any way you can. You know,
this is very inside baseball for people, but you know
they had they made the announcement during the upfronts, and
the upfronts are where all the networks they make their
(10:54):
pitches for the year to the advertisers, so they usually
try to make big announcements. They made the Jordan announcement,
but Jordan wasn't even there, And I Doug imagine this
like Jordan's probably for something like that to be to
fly up there, but probably could get two to three
million dollars, maybe five million, who knows that, you know,
definitely millions, and he could suf his private jet from
(11:16):
Carolina up to New York, get you know, do the presentation,
get back, you know, go to the airport, go back.
And he didn't. He didn't show up. He just did
a video. So I don't think he's gonna do that
much when he does, and likely just talk to Mike Turrico.
So he hasn't done that much in the past. It's
sort of to his discretion of what he wants to do.
(11:39):
So I don't think it's interesting, but to think that
Michael Jordan's gonna be the next Charles Barkley in terms
of TV and on every week and kind of telling
you everything he thinks. I don't think that's likely to happen.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
But here you will have to see awesome stuff as always. Man,
I can't thank enough Andrew this is so I mean,
I find it to be interesting and I'm I'm in
the know it if you will, and you know so
much more. Thank you so much for joining us on
Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Thanks, always enjoyable, appreciate it, Doug.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Let's to get to the Fox Says and Now what
Say every day this time and the dou Got Lip
Showing the Bonus Podcast. Play for your portion of previous show,
Fox Sports Radio, Fox Sports One. This is uh Dan
Byer co hosting with Mike Harmon on Fox Sports Sunday,
talk about how Knicks fans should feel about their team season.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
There's this interesting line of we beat the Celtics, that's
good enough, which I don't think that the Knicks fans thought.
But what I also thought came with it, Mike was
not only did we knock off the champs, now we're
the favorites, and I don't know if some overconfidence got
into that where then now it feels like it's a fall.
(13:00):
Maybe the high point should have just been beating Boston,
Like maybe that was the ultimate cap of this and
Indiana ends up setting themselves for a run late in
the season. But like, if you were to tell the
Knicks at the beginning of the season, like, would you
take knocking off the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference
semi finals and having a magical Game six in the Garden?
(13:22):
I think that you would, like I think that you
would at that point. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't all
speak for all Knicks fans, but ultimately, that's maybe how
they need to look at how this season was, because
if they to your point of of what this line
is at minus seven to fifty with Oklahoma City, it
was minus seven oh five. If the Knicks would have advanced,
they wouldn't have had a much better chance to beat
Indiana anyway. So you know, ultimately, I guess if you're
(13:45):
a Knicks fan, it's really difficult to do. But you
may just have to take to win over the Boston
and just pack that one up and enjoy it yourself.
Because I'm not sure that they were fit for an
NBA Finals appearance.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
That's fair. I mean, like, this is what happens when
there's an injury. It causes an upset. And let's just
go back to the question, how should Knicks fans feel?
They should feel great? Feel great? They had a great year,
They're consistently playing deeper and deeper into the playoffs. Does
(14:21):
it in the moment does it feel good? Because part
of it is you look at Indies record, and if
I'm honest, I don't think Janalen Brunson played particularly well
in the sixth and deciding game, especially in key moments,
turned the basketball over and struggling to defend. And we
got in the radio show to talk about Karl Anthony
Towns and his deficiencies on defense. But again, these are
(14:43):
all despite that they were they had a very good year.
They went to six games with the Pacers in the
in the in the Eastern Conference Finals. The challenge is
going to be not just getting back to and potentially
getting beyond this point, but how do you how are
you cautious to not think that you're very, very close,
youre one piece away?
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Right?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Remember, the Hawks have been here, other teams have been here,
have been able to take that next step, and they
sometimes they make gargantuan moves to try and take that
next step. Just be smart, understand your processes working and
keep plugging along. Here's Dan Patrick talking about Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
It didn't take long. It didn't take long after the
Knicks were limited on Saturday that the finger pointing has
started in New York and most of the fingers are
pointed at Carl Anthony Towns. So there were reports out
of New York suggesting the team grew increasingly frustrated with
Karl Anthony Town's defensive habits throughout the playoffs. This isn't
(15:45):
a new revelation. He's never been a good defender. And
what do you say, Marvin, He is not a big man.
He's a tall man.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Correct, Okay, right, He's not a powerful he's just a forward.
Speaker 6 (16:01):
He's really good at scoring, really good at scoring, and
he's good at letting the other team score as well.
But he's not a rim protector. Like I don't this
of all the things coming out of New York. I mean,
you gotta blame somebody. We didn't go to the finals.
So it's Karl Anthony Towns. You traded for him, You
(16:22):
knew exactly what you were getting. There's no secret. It's
not like he stopped playing defense once he got to
New York. He didn't play it in Minnesota. That's why
they had the stifled tower in there, Rudy and the
go bets. Because Carl Anthony Towns is he's a seven
foot shooting guard.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, he's off What happens is when we evaluate players,
we always evaluate them offense first, whereas in the NBA
it's who can you guard? And when we talked about
the radio show, and I think it remains it's going
to remain true, is you can't have more than one
guy that can't guard somebody on an NBA roster. We're
on the court at the same time. And that's what
(17:04):
the Knicks had. And Brunson's not a terrible defender, but
not a plus. And Carl Towns's is uh uh is
not not capable of that, just not This is LeVar
Arrington talking about Stefan Diggs in his future with Mike Vrabel.
Speaker 7 (17:27):
Keep in mind, you got to keep in mind also
in this scenario that Mike Vrabel is a former player
and he ain't a square. Let's be clear here, like
you might be dealing with some of these guys. They
might be bible thumping former player coaches and stuff like
that frown upon certain things. That ain't Mike Vrabel, That
(17:50):
ain't Mike. Mike gonna be able to relate to you.
And I ain't saying that he out here doing anything crazy.
I'm just saying, Mike, Mike kids is he's he's a guy.
He's a guy like he's one of us. He's one
of the guys. So to me, I just think that
(18:12):
he's going to air on the side of caution and
he's going to have a conversation with Stefan Diggs probably
has already at this point, has had a conversation with
Stephan Diggs. He's gotten Stephan's side of the story. They've
had their conversations, and they're going to move forward accordingly.
If you're asking me today, do I think he's going
(18:35):
to get cut, I'm going to say no.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Who Again, I understand exactly what LeVar is saying when
he says he's a guy, he's one of us. You know,
it's one of those. Okay, it makes sense, right, He's
not going to freak out. He's not a square. We
know guys party, we know guys you know, have some
form of recreational truck. Again, my issue though, is that
(19:09):
Vrabel's now a coach and he has to separate himself
from that. And for a Stefan Diggs, you're putting yourself
in that precarious position of getting cut if you're not
anywhere near what you're supposed to be as an athlete.
And then oh yeah, by the way, hey, I'm this
is my first year, your first year, you're trying to
establish what the culture is. And if the culture is, hey,
(19:30):
you know, if you're a good enough star, you can
party and do whatever. That doesn't ever work, does never work.
So yeah, I just I think it's such a bad look.
I do think there's a world there where they move
off of Stefan Diggs. I told you what I would
have done, what I would do, I would get rid
(19:53):
of Stefan Diggs. I got no problem with it, especially
in your one. All the things I've learned culture and
you're who you're a leader, ours who your team is.
But yes, Rabel has been in the league as long
as I've been doing broadcasting, so he knows what will
work and he knows what doesn't. And if he decides
not to cut him, well, then again I think the
(20:14):
guy knows what he's doing. I'm just telling you what
I would do as a coach. That's what the Fox said.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
Say.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Let's find out who's annoying Jason Stewart and now.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
It's your annoying.
Speaker 8 (20:42):
Hey, Doug, do you know what is the term in
movies and TV? Melodramatic? You know what melodramatic is?
Speaker 3 (20:51):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Sure?
Speaker 8 (20:52):
So if if I walk into the studio one day
and I just look at you your attire, and I say, oh,
you got the blue polo today? Huh? And then I
walk out, that seems to be melodramatic. It's like, are
you complimenting it?
Speaker 4 (21:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 8 (21:08):
Would you like to have one? Or are you making
fun of my blue polo? I get insecure about it.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Sure?
Speaker 8 (21:13):
So Luka doncic Uh agreed to do Lebron James's podcast,
and Steve Nash asked him what he was surprised about
playing with Lebron.
Speaker 7 (21:26):
Give me an example of a couple of things you've seen,
like being around him every day where you're like he
does that?
Speaker 6 (21:32):
Like, what's he doing over there, Like, is there anything
that stands out initially when you're like, wow, Well.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
First of all, he shows up like ten hours before
the games.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
That was really the main like I was, I came
in twenty two years, he was already don't working on
I was like, what.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
So well, yeah.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
What Luca didn't do was tell us if that's something
he admires or if that's like, no way in the
fuck I'm ever gonna do that. He never followed up
on that.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Remember.
Speaker 8 (22:01):
I don't know if you ever saw the Redeemed Team documentary,
but there was a scene where Carmelo and Dwayne Wade
came to the gym at the normal time and Kobe
had already been like sweating and walking out. He got
there at four am, and the thing was then Carmelo
and Dwayne Wade showed up the next day at four am,
(22:23):
and then it became the whole team showed up at
four am. Is that what lucas saying or is he
basically saying fuck that?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well? I don't know. I mean, look, he's obviously, based
upon pictures, put himself in much better shape than he's
been in, but he's also had times like this during
his career, So it's a little bit weird. I don't
know that. It's just a hard one for me to tell,
really hard one for me to tell because Anthony Davis
(22:56):
was close friends with Lebron James and it took him
like four years than playing together before he started to
like figure it out as well. So again I think
some of it by osmosis and seeing it he's gonna do.
But Lebron is not going to drive by his house
and pick him up early in the morning, No chance.
Speaker 8 (23:16):
So Max Munsey a week ago today, Dan Bayern Blonios
were filling in for you and I as the thing
that I hate, I said that I hate Max Munsey.
He was coming off of a weekend of errors at
third base and he's sitting below the Mendoza line and
Max actually said, I'm not very good at defense right now.
(23:38):
And I said, well, Max, if you're not good at defense,
what the hell are you doing on the one up
because you're certainly not hitting. So maybe since we were
on in LA that day, maybe that was what sparked us.
But he has been on an absolute tear one two, three, four,
five home runs since I said I hate you. So
I'm going to apologize for him. I hate saying it
(24:00):
when I did, and it's annoying that it took me
saying that to him to get him to start hitting.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
I think you're solely responsible though, for it, So I
don't think you should. Maybe you're annoying, but I don't
think it should be annoying. But you can also patch
yourself on the back, and all Dodger fans should patch
you in the back for what you did for the
for the.
Speaker 8 (24:19):
Club now inside the NBA. I don't know if you
saw any of this. I didn't. I don't know if
you were aware of it. But they went off the
air as a TNT entity. They had their last show
on Saturday. I don't know if you saw anything online
or on Twitter about it. So Bill Simmons had this
(24:39):
take about it.
Speaker 9 (24:41):
I think they're going to fuck the show up. I
don't think they they unless they completely change how they
do commercials. The show is going to be different and
people are going to be pissed and Barklay and those
guys are going to be pissed, and I think it's
going to go badly.
Speaker 8 (24:53):
And does anybody know how ESPN function is better than
Bill Simmons and I think he's right. And that's what's
an is that I think we did see the final
inside the NBA show because what Disney and ESPN inevitably
does to shows, and I think Pat mcafew fans are
saying the same thing. They're kind of it's kind of
(25:13):
watered down. And I don't know why that is. I
guess it's because they have, like I don't know, Disney
in their in their branding, and they have to be
a little bit more tame. You would know better than
I would.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Uh. I don't know the the I don't know how
the licensing agreement works. Okay, I will say this. I'll
defend Disney in the NBA Finals halftime show because for
whatever reason, they have to have these multiple breaks, So
they have like a ninety second and then a break,
and then a halftime segment, then a break, then a
(25:48):
halftime segment, then a break, and then some short, little
quick one and then they go back. And you're like,
why would anybody do that? And the answer is, well,
because they have to because of network tea. And what
Bill's talking about is on ESPN they have a set
break schedule, whereas on Turner they just go until they
feel like, Okay, now it's whatever. Conversation is dying down again.
(26:12):
I don't know how the agreement works. We're all operating
on this assumption that they're going to try and ESPN
ify this show. It would be stupid. It would be
stupid to do McAfee's show. I don't think anybody paid
attention to it before they got it. I think they,
(26:33):
you know, they his and hers sports Center, which you
know it butted up against any chance of getting ratings
because of how it was formatted. But again, they tried
to sports centerize if you just leave it as is,
it'll be fine. If you try and mess with it,
you'll screw it up. That part I agree with.
Speaker 8 (26:52):
Yeah, So that's annoying to me that I think we
have seen kind of the last show as it as
it was, and then Luca's comments and Max Max Mounsey
waiting until I told him I hate him to start hitting.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Uh See Luca is annoying, Max Months is annoying or
ESPN's annoying? Is that my choices?
Speaker 8 (27:26):
It's annoying that inside the NBA probably has ended as
as we are used to it.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Yes, that is that. That is annoying.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Why Are we doing this because we can.
Speaker 8 (27:43):
It's almost like Shaq was listening to your annoying because
Shaq has this response and he said it on Live TV.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And to the new network we're coming to We're not
coming to f around since the last show, and I'm
gonna say it, We're not coming to fuck around, you
kicking ass who taken names? Are you taking over? Okay?
I love you guys, I appreciate you guys, but hey,
all right, let me see that number one side for
(28:14):
the number one show over on TV and we come
over and taken over that next met word too.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, he only Shack can get over that, and only
you get away that. On your last show, they got
away a lot of stuff. I think the challenge also
is going to be are they just going to do
their show? Are they going to try and get away
with stuff? And I think it's going to be a
little bit of both. Why could we play for you
because we can? That's it for the n Bones podcast.
Check out the radio show every day three to five
e's from Total two Pacific, Fox Sports Tradio. I Heart
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