November 12, 2025 • 27 mins
Doug and the crew discuss the difficult story of Marshawn Kneeland. Doug reacts to Brady Quinn's take on Aaron Rodgers. Doug chooses among deserving candidates Jason Stewart deems as most annoying today. Plus, Draymond Green makes today's installment of "Because We Can".
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, this is the Doug Gottlieb Show Years in
the Bonus with Doug gottlie What.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Up Doug Gottlieb Show in the Bonus Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio app Welcome, Welcome, Welcome in. We got a lot
to get to, uh in this yere podcast. But I
want to start with a topic that I wanted to
give a couple of days before we brought it up,
(00:31):
and then I did think that it would be appropriate
to bring up after a couple of days had passed.
I went to the game Monday night and there was
a moment of silence for marshawn neland yeah, and Marshaw
Niland sent, you know, concerning text messages prior to his
(00:54):
what's what's being reported as a suicide? And I don't know.
I guess I just Jason, You're somebody who I respect.
We don't always we don't always agree on things, but
I think it's you're great for an interesting discussion. So
here's the interesting discussion. I don't think, I know, there's
(01:15):
no intent to encourage anybody to commit suicide, not that
stupid right, no intent at all. And I'd like to
think that the moments of silence the mentions of helplines,
all the little things that people are doing are because
(01:36):
they legitimately care about other human beings and they don't
want anybody to go through this sadness where you're mourning
the death of somebody who's so early in life, has
so much looked forward to, and they found a permanent
solution for what likely was the temporary problem. On the
other hand, I do understand the NFL saying, hey, look,
this is significant. We have to show that we care
(01:58):
for our players, because if we don't show for Marshawn
neland what happens, you know what happens to some of these.
Of course we have to do this. I guess this
is where it's hard, right because suicide rates are high.
I don't know if they're an all time high, but
there are way more opportunities for people to get help.
(02:18):
So does it actually help people to mention here's where
you can get help. Whereas do we honestly think anybody
picked up the phone and called that helpline when they
saw it flashed across the screen right before their favorite
team played football. Jason, what do you think of how
we've handled Marshaw Neland's suicide?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, interesting question. I wanted to get some of the
facts straight, so I just typed into chat GBT. Right,
it looks like suicide rates are up considerably since the pandemic,
and I guess, I guess how they handled the suicide.
(02:57):
How the NFL is handling the suicide. I think in
mental health in general, I think they're in They're in
a bit of a bind. I don't think they know
how to do it. And there is the elephant in
the room that CTE could be the cause of any
NFL related mental health issue. So it's like the NFL
(03:19):
is kind of caught here. Do we acknowledge serious mental
health issues and suicide as it relates to that. Do
we continue to do what we try to do the
last ten years and ignore that CTE is a thing?
But yeah, it's I think like most things that the
(03:40):
NFL tries to do outside of football, it just seems
to be kind of clumsy and doesn't seem to have
a direction.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I I don't know, if you're right, it doesn't really
seem to have a direction. It's it's just the we
have to we have to appear to be sensitive and
appear to have other people who can handle these problems
for us so that we can take it off our plate,
which is what most people want to do. All right,
here's the next question, and maybe this is Sam you
could answer it is do we think that I don't know,
(04:18):
like it's tragic that he killed himself? Is it a tragedy?
But again, I'm not trying to sound harsh, but I
do know what a tragedy looks like. And somebody going
through such incredible depression that they take their own life
is a tragic event. I don't know if it measures
(04:39):
up to a tragedy. And then again, like it's one
of those our brains are working, are performing properly. But
when somebody has a chemical imbalance and they're having suicidal
thoughts or they're going through massive depression and they're in
desperate search of dopamine, is it smart to celebrate people's
(04:59):
lives when they take their own Because then the person
who's going through their own depression and be like, well,
if I take my own life, it'll be celebrated. Otherwise
I'll just be ridiculed because I'm a failure. Because people
are going through depression and feel like they're a failure.
What do you think, Sam?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah, man, this is touchy.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You have to you absolutely have to acknowledge their passing
and it is tragic. But did he he had like
a he had an interaction with the police before this happened,
didn't he? And he had it almost It almost reminds
me of like the Kyriene Lacy story. And I hope
I'm not wrong any of this, but like sometimes people
get in trouble with the law or they're going to
(05:43):
face something in their lives that might really bring them
down for the next couple of years, like facing charges,
or they're just they have real real.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
They came in on a welfare they became a welfare check. Okay, Yeah,
So he sounded up some group texts that are concerning
probably mental health. Their group text seem to be saying goodbye.
And he made a statement about not wanting to go
to prison or go to jail. Nobody knows what he
could have been references in terms of going behind bars.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
This kind of it just sort of reminds me of
the immense pressure that sometimes students that really elite universities
put on themselves when they're not making the passing grade
or their grades aren't up to their snuff and they
end up killing themselves, and because they feel this pressure
from their parents and they put on themselves. And the
fact is that if you just waited out like life
(06:35):
in a year or three years or six months or
five years, whatever it may be, sometime in the future,
it'll get better. You can make it better for yourself
if you you know, if you just waited out like
its things can be really bad in the moment. Sometimes
people are impulsive and they make decisions just based on
their emotions that they're feeling. Like in the last forty
(06:56):
eight hours. Forty eight hours, I don't know what he
was dealing with, what he of interaction or crime he
might have been accused of. But I just seen this
before with with students at like Ivy League universities, and
I was like why because they felt all this pressure
and they felt just completely torn in the moment.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this.
Two weeks ago, Doug Martin, former running back, had an
interaction with cops. Died in custody, but he gave every
indication leading up to that that he was he was troubled,
he was in crisis mentally. There again, another welfare check
was called. Why was there not a moment of silence
(07:35):
for Doug Martin? What differentiates Doug Martin, who I'm guessing
was dealing with CTE combined with because.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
He wasn't I guess because he wasn't a current player
would be the only thing, Yeah, that he's been out
of the lea apparently. So apparently he got pulled over.
So let me let me read this story, make sure
I get it right. Keena was He was pulled over
(08:06):
on Wednesday and then ran from police and then was
found dead in the early morning hours of Thursday with
a self inflicted gunshot wound after evading authorities, crashing a car,
and fleeing on foot. So Texas troopers attempted to stop
his car for a traffic violation near First Go on
(08:26):
Wednesday night, launching the brief pursuit, and ultimately he crashed
his car after evading evading authorities and then fled, fled,
fled on foot, and then took his own life. So
I guess the only thing would be he's a current
players opposed to a former player.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, and he had just been in the news for
falling on a touchdown in you know what it was
the one of the only touchdowns that the Cowboys scored
against the Cardinals. So he just come off this like
epic high from a game that they lost, but it
was still a personal you know, achievement and note for him,
and then all this happens.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
It's perplexing.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Like I again speaking about whether whether it's Neeland or
Karen Lacy or you know, anybody else, Like we have
to wait for these details. But some people just have
a real hard time handling like the darkest moments in
their lives and they feel like there's no way out
and the only way out is to take their own life.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
So you're saying that you sat through a moment of
silence and then what there was a billboard messaging with
the suicide hot Lawn hotline. Is that what that was
at the stadium? Yes, okay, because I think that that
that's probably the answer, right. I don't think that you're
celebrating the death. I don't think you're celebrating the life
(09:41):
I mean of Neland as much as you're bringing awareness
to suicide help right in that moment for this, does.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Anybody not know that their suicide prevention lines out there?
And do you call that line if your brain is acting,
you know, it is so depressed and when you're feeling
the cityle.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean that's the whole conundrum, right, you're depressed,
are you going to want to seek help? That's seeking
help is the opposite of being depressed.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Right, And the other part too, it is that we
have more avenues for people to get free help than
we've ever had, and our suicide rates are still high,
if not even higher.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Dealing with depression is especially you know, especially cumbersome or
difficult with young people. Your brain is still developing. I'll
just have a personal ancdote. We had a kid named
Devin who worked on our family farm in Iowa. Really
nice kid, always seemed very happy, very chipper, was a
great worker, just a sweet kid, and didn't think suicide
(10:47):
was even anything remotely possible. And then like a year
or two after he stopped working on our farm, he
was off at college somewhere he killed himself. And you're
just like why, you just don't understand, because a lot
sometimes chemical depression is you can't it's an inexplicable you know,
it's it's it's like you're feeling this desire in your
brain that just defies logic and rationale, no question.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Now.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I look, I was when I was in Notre Dame.
I most deeply depressed and couldn't kind of pull myself
out of it. But I was never suicidal, right. It
just that's not something I've ever experienced in my life,
knock Wood. But it's a fascinating topic. And I just
remember watching it on all the NFL games and we're
(11:30):
all kind of going through the motions of a moment
of silence, and again, just my it's it's one of
those do we are we recognizing it too much? On
the other hand, I don't know if there is a
too much, because it shows people are truly compassionate, and
(11:51):
maybe it's the look at how much we care for
this guy who we didn't even know, and so maybe
that that can be translated to somebody, you know, is
imagine how people really feel about you. You should not
do this. I don't know, it's a there's no right answer.
I just thought it was worthy of a discussion. But
I thought that was worthy of a discussion, you know,
(12:13):
in a time a little bit after it took place,
which was today, I thought was aff air to breathe.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Let's let's get to what the Fox says and now
every day at this time in the Modut podcast, play
for your portion of my previous show Fox Sports Radio,
Fox Sports One. Here's Ready Quinn talking about Aaron Rodgers
and the Steelers' offense.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I keep going back to this whole time to throw
stat because it was evident watching it, Like I see
Mike as soon as Aaron Rodgers got the ball in
his hand, he wanted to get it out. He leads
the league in that he's digging out faster than any
other quarterback. And I'm not saying that this is like
in direct relation to the fact that you know, Aaron Rodgers,
Brady Ben Roelisberger, all those guys were very, very late
(13:02):
in their career and didn't want to get hit. But
I think that's a part of it. Like, even though
there's an element of, well, these guys know where to
go at the football because they've been playing for so long,
everything's moving in slow motion, there's also an element of
they probably don't want to get hit. You know, your
most important ability is durability, and if you're out there
(13:22):
for the next series, you're out there to live on
to play the next down or live on to play
the next series. That's usually what makes you most effective
and is what's best for your team. So I'm not
knocking it, it's just the problem is when I'm watching
the Steelers offense there, it doesn't feel like there's much
of a I want to say threat because with DK
Metcalf and some of the other speed they've got, with
(13:43):
Austin and Wilson a wide receiver, there's a threat of
them being able to go downfield, but it doesn't feel
like it feels like they're reluctant to do so.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I also think that Brady is not He's saying what
needs to be said without saying it in a way
in which it truly should come across. They don't want
to get hit because they're forty years old and it
hurts a whole lot more and truthfully, they don't really
want to be playing this game. They're gonna get hit
and which is going to cause people to hit him more.
And oh yeah, by the way, we talked about this,
(14:13):
it's The unspoken part about older quarterbacks that you can't
really calculate for is are they willing to take a
hit in order to win a game? And Aaron Rodgers
to this point is not, despite the fact that the
threat the rest of his career, the answer was absolutely.
Here's Nick Right and Chris Broussard talking about the Luca
trade and the firing of Nico Harrison.
Speaker 6 (14:33):
It's simply the worst move an executive is made in
sports in one hundred years.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
It's art Darth.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
It's simply that his humorous and quotes after the fact,
if the trade itself didn't fully do him in, they
did him in. I want to I mean this, and
I know it's just sports, but it's not just sports,
like people that love sports love sports, and it really
(15:02):
does impact like your mood and how you feel and
the the ability to follow a team and follow a player.
What this guy's hubris or ego or owned basketball malfunction
his brain did the MAVs fans is one of the
saddest things I've seen in recent in sports. Said is
(15:24):
what I mean it. We are right, we are used
to in sports. A there's a chance a player is
gonna get mad and demand out like we got it.
We were prepared for that. But if you were a
Mavericks fan, you were just like, like, can you imagine,
Kate of you imagine if in two years and two
(15:44):
more top five MVP finishes, you wake up one morning
and Elliott Wolf traded Drake May.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, listen, it's become an awful trade because Anthony Davis
was hurt and was that foreseeable? Yeah, Kyrie Irving getting hurt,
was that foreseeable? Yeah, But I wouldn't lose track of
the fact that Luca was not getting in better shape
with the Mavericks. It was a yearly it was a
(16:12):
yearly dance they did. And I honestly don't care about
Mavericks fans because they'll come around if you're winning. It
was a volado and risky trade, and this is what
happens when a volado risky trade doesn't pan out. I'd
also point out it's incredibly unfair to UH to judge
him now before everybody's back healthy, because if he gets
(16:35):
Kyrie back healthy, if he gets Anthony Davis back healthy,
it should be a former old team. This is this
is fan talk, not real talk, and I think that's
what Nick is really relating. Here's Colin Cowhert talking about
Kayleb Williams and Ben Johnson today.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
He proves that young talented quarterbacks, even super hyper talented quarterbacks,
they just need a baseline of support and common sense.
Ben Johnson takes this job, does he say, Caleb, I
want more zany flashy plays?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
No.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
The first thing he addresses, we got to get better
at guard, center, guard, not even the most dynamic offensive
line positions. The second thing he says, Hey, I got
to ask you something, Caleb, can.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
You not run backwards?
Speaker 7 (17:23):
I want to eliminate the negative plays and the pre
stat penalties because when you're not first and fifteen or
first and twenty or second in twenty eight because you
got sacked running backwards, you run the ball better and
you run the ball more often, and that helps the quarterback.
But Caleb was not terrible last year. He was wildly flashy.
(17:44):
Twenty touchdown, six picks. It's all the little stuff that
makes great parenting and great quarterback. Because the wild dynamic
running thing that is really really easy for Caleb Williams,
that's innate, that's natural. That's gonna come Caleb's success this
year is on all the minutia of the NFL. Efficiency
(18:08):
matters whether you're at Meta Fox Sports of the Bears,
and suddenly he's the hottest quarterback in the league.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Now, I should point out that the same Colin Cowhard
talk about the exact same quarterback, Caleb Williams seven weeks ago. Today.
Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
The coach wants this, and this player is capable of
doing this, and it doesn't mesh. There are two or
three things you have to do in this league. You
have to be consistently accurate, and you have to be
an anticipation thrower. You have to see stuff before it's
wide open, and he doesn't. It also helps if you
(18:47):
have a composure. I don't think he does. Maybe there's
a coach it works with, but this is a marriage.
They don't compliment each other. I don't think it's Ben Johnson.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So Colin doesn't think the mayor it would work seven
weeks ago. Now it's working together perfectly. It's all because
of Ben Johnson. That's what the Fox said.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I say. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Let's find out who what is annoying Jason Stewart.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And now it's your annoying, Hey, Doug.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Aaron gwen has been a feature on this segment for
the last few weeks, and it's because he has this
weird relationship with the New York media. Remember a couple
of weeks ago, he just wouldn't tell anybody who the
quarterback was. Two of his very below average quarterbacks. He
wanted to keep it a secret. And then I guess
(19:52):
On Tuesday, Rich Samini reported in the morning that Garrett
Wilson might miss a few weeks and that really ticked
off Aaron Glenn, so he took it out on reporters
and Rich Samini yesterday.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
I'm going to to pass on talking about injuries since
you're Rich, He's not here, has all the answers, so
you can, guys can get all the injuries from Rich.
So I go right into this air game as Rich, Well,
I'm telling you that's Rich. You not here, Well you
better call him. No disrespect to you or Rich, but
like we want to hear it from you. You know,
(20:27):
you guys have been here. You guys have been hearing
from me. But now, since we're just reporting stuff you
know that I haven't said, then maybe you should ask you.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I just think that his I think in his mind
his strategy this season is I'm going to change the
way this game has been covered and reported on. I'm
going to will the New York media into bending towards me.
I'm going to win this battle with the media and
come out on the other end on top. Does that
(20:56):
ever work, Doug?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Nope? Does that work unless all the way it works
is if you win a lot, a lot of games
and there are ways away from you with that, it
does not work. Who else do you?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Aj Brown, another guy who's been in this segment, he
said something pretty shitty on a what do you call
those things? When you watch people play video games? You
know that gen Z does it?
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Oh yeah, which I mean Twitch is a stream you
can do it on.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
You sit there and watch people play video games. Some
real famous video game player was playing AJ Brown on
a live stream yesterday. If you got me on Fantasy,
you're rid of That was real short. But that's AJ
Brown telling livestream audience that if you have him in Fantasy,
(21:48):
you could let him go drop him off your roster. So,
just to get this straight, AJ Brown is a top
twenty pick in almost all fantasy leagues, all fantasy drafts.
If you had AJ Brown this year, you probably are
suffering because of it. And AJ Brown, the actual subject
is telling you you should probably drop him. I don't.
(22:11):
I just don't know where to put AJ Brown here.
I don't know, I don't know what to consider him.
The trade deadline came and went, and he stayed an eagle.
The controversial play the other night, Doug that you saw
from Lambeau leap Land, I thought AJ Brown gave up
on that pass. He didn't. He didn't try to catch it.
You know when you see the receiver kind of stop
(22:33):
and jump and try to catch it before the defensive
back gets to it. Like he just kind of gave
up on it. I don't know where to put AJ Brown,
but it's really annoying.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I would agree with you it is. It's really annoying. Uh,
He's just annoying because he's kind of everywhere, and he
hasn't been relevant in sports in half a decade. But
he's relevant because he's in that Tyson zone. Nothing that
could be said about him. You wouldn't bled to be true.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So yesterday Donald Trump was on the Pat McAfee show.
So I know, just that comment alone just triggered half
our audience. I get that. And again I'll always say this,
it's a choice to be triggered. You could choose not
to be triggered. But Donald Trump was on the Pat
McAfee show yesterday, so that's significant. And then he said
(23:19):
something about college football sports here it is.
Speaker 9 (23:22):
Well, it is a very serious problem because even football,
when they give quarterbacks twelve million, thirteen fourteen million dollars,
they read a couple of them, and all of a sudden,
you're going to see it's going to be out of control.
And even rich colleges are going to go bust because
you're not going to be able to do this. And
you know, they had the old way. They gave scholarships
and they did lots of good things, but there could
(23:44):
be some form of payment. But when they start bidding
up the costs. Look the NFL and all of you know,
all teams they have caps. You don't really have that
in college sports. And when the guard comes along that
weighs three hundred and fifty pounds, of these phenomenal, and
they say that's going to make the difference between having
a great team and a lousie team, and they give
(24:05):
him ten million dollars. That's going to start happening pretty
so all of a sudden, you're going to have like
NFL type payrolls.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
So there's a there's a couple of ways to go
on this. You could disagree with his thoughts on NL
and what college sports needs to do. You could agree
with it whatever. But the Bacari Sellers and Jamel Hills
are going to choose to say, this is Donald Trump
who doesn't isn't comfortable with young black men making a
lot of money. And that's just it. It's very predictable.
(24:38):
But you coach a college team, I don't know what
percentage of your team is black. I don't know what
the overall percentage of college football players is that are
black versus white. Probably close to fifty to fifty, maybe
it's maybe it's a ratio of sixty forty. I do
know that Eli Manning makes a shit load of money
(24:58):
in NIL and he's not black. Most of the quarterbacks
that are white in Major five conferences are making significant
amount of money. So to make this a racial thing
is so predictable and annoying.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Couldn't agree with you more, couldn't agree with you more
anybody else?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
No Trump, AJ Brown and Aaron GWe.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I mean, I'm gonna make it. I'll make it. I'll
make it Donald Trump, and just all the ways in
which it becomes something racial, what it does not have
to be.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Why are we doing this.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Because we can?
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Raymond Green had a succinct take about the MAVs firing
Nico Harrison.
Speaker 10 (25:55):
Everybody was shitting on Luca last year. Now Luca's playing
Green and everybody. I want to take that opportunity to
ship on Nico because Dallas is playing bad. But it's
not apples to apples. The team that he constructed to
be out there isn't out there.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, I get it. I mean happens in any of
these bad years, That's generally what happens. Why can't play
it for you? Because we can't? Uh, who would who
would have thought? Who would have thought that? Of all
the guys to be the voice of reason, that's who
is the voice of reason? Raymond Green, Raymond Green, and
(26:38):
that's boys boys talking about with Nico Harrison's like you
can judge me and say, hey, you should have known
if you want to say that Anthony Davis was liking
to get hurt. Okay, Kyrie, you know he's massively injury
prone but had n't been hurt, and he tears his
ACL I'm with you. Nobody wants reality. They just want
to feed the fans, so they're saytiated. That's the end
(27:02):
the Modus Podcast. She got the radio show three to
five Eastern Talk to Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio app.
I'm Doug Gottlieb
All right, this is the Doug Gottlieb Show Years in
the Bonus with Doug gottlie What.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Up Doug Gottlieb Show in the Bonus Fox Sports Radio,
iHeartRadio app Welcome, Welcome, Welcome in. We got a lot
to get to, uh in this yere podcast. But I
want to start with a topic that I wanted to
give a couple of days before we brought it up,
(00:31):
and then I did think that it would be appropriate
to bring up after a couple of days had passed.
I went to the game Monday night and there was
a moment of silence for marshawn neland yeah, and Marshaw
Niland sent, you know, concerning text messages prior to his
(00:54):
what's what's being reported as a suicide? And I don't know.
I guess I just Jason, You're somebody who I respect.
We don't always we don't always agree on things, but
I think it's you're great for an interesting discussion. So
here's the interesting discussion. I don't think, I know, there's
(01:15):
no intent to encourage anybody to commit suicide, not that
stupid right, no intent at all. And I'd like to
think that the moments of silence the mentions of helplines,
all the little things that people are doing are because
(01:36):
they legitimately care about other human beings and they don't
want anybody to go through this sadness where you're mourning
the death of somebody who's so early in life, has
so much looked forward to, and they found a permanent
solution for what likely was the temporary problem. On the
other hand, I do understand the NFL saying, hey, look,
this is significant. We have to show that we care
(01:58):
for our players, because if we don't show for Marshawn
neland what happens, you know what happens to some of these.
Of course we have to do this. I guess this
is where it's hard, right because suicide rates are high.
I don't know if they're an all time high, but
there are way more opportunities for people to get help.
(02:18):
So does it actually help people to mention here's where
you can get help. Whereas do we honestly think anybody
picked up the phone and called that helpline when they
saw it flashed across the screen right before their favorite
team played football. Jason, what do you think of how
we've handled Marshaw Neland's suicide?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, interesting question. I wanted to get some of the
facts straight, so I just typed into chat GBT. Right,
it looks like suicide rates are up considerably since the pandemic,
and I guess, I guess how they handled the suicide.
(02:57):
How the NFL is handling the suicide. I think in
mental health in general, I think they're in They're in
a bit of a bind. I don't think they know
how to do it. And there is the elephant in
the room that CTE could be the cause of any
NFL related mental health issue. So it's like the NFL
(03:19):
is kind of caught here. Do we acknowledge serious mental
health issues and suicide as it relates to that. Do
we continue to do what we try to do the
last ten years and ignore that CTE is a thing?
But yeah, it's I think like most things that the
(03:40):
NFL tries to do outside of football, it just seems
to be kind of clumsy and doesn't seem to have
a direction.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I I don't know, if you're right, it doesn't really
seem to have a direction. It's it's just the we
have to we have to appear to be sensitive and
appear to have other people who can handle these problems
for us so that we can take it off our plate,
which is what most people want to do. All right,
here's the next question, and maybe this is Sam you
could answer it is do we think that I don't know,
(04:18):
like it's tragic that he killed himself? Is it a tragedy?
But again, I'm not trying to sound harsh, but I
do know what a tragedy looks like. And somebody going
through such incredible depression that they take their own life
is a tragic event. I don't know if it measures
(04:39):
up to a tragedy. And then again, like it's one
of those our brains are working, are performing properly. But
when somebody has a chemical imbalance and they're having suicidal
thoughts or they're going through massive depression and they're in
desperate search of dopamine, is it smart to celebrate people's
(04:59):
lives when they take their own Because then the person
who's going through their own depression and be like, well,
if I take my own life, it'll be celebrated. Otherwise
I'll just be ridiculed because I'm a failure. Because people
are going through depression and feel like they're a failure.
What do you think, Sam?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Yeah, man, this is touchy.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
You have to you absolutely have to acknowledge their passing
and it is tragic. But did he he had like
a he had an interaction with the police before this happened,
didn't he? And he had it almost It almost reminds
me of like the Kyriene Lacy story. And I hope
I'm not wrong any of this, but like sometimes people
get in trouble with the law or they're going to
(05:43):
face something in their lives that might really bring them
down for the next couple of years, like facing charges,
or they're just they have real real.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
They came in on a welfare they became a welfare check. Okay, Yeah,
So he sounded up some group texts that are concerning
probably mental health. Their group text seem to be saying goodbye.
And he made a statement about not wanting to go
to prison or go to jail. Nobody knows what he
could have been references in terms of going behind bars.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
This kind of it just sort of reminds me of
the immense pressure that sometimes students that really elite universities
put on themselves when they're not making the passing grade
or their grades aren't up to their snuff and they
end up killing themselves, and because they feel this pressure
from their parents and they put on themselves. And the
fact is that if you just waited out like life
(06:35):
in a year or three years or six months or
five years, whatever it may be, sometime in the future,
it'll get better. You can make it better for yourself
if you you know, if you just waited out like
its things can be really bad in the moment. Sometimes
people are impulsive and they make decisions just based on
their emotions that they're feeling. Like in the last forty
(06:56):
eight hours. Forty eight hours, I don't know what he
was dealing with, what he of interaction or crime he
might have been accused of. But I just seen this
before with with students at like Ivy League universities, and
I was like why because they felt all this pressure
and they felt just completely torn in the moment.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this.
Two weeks ago, Doug Martin, former running back, had an
interaction with cops. Died in custody, but he gave every
indication leading up to that that he was he was troubled,
he was in crisis mentally. There again, another welfare check
was called. Why was there not a moment of silence
(07:35):
for Doug Martin? What differentiates Doug Martin, who I'm guessing
was dealing with CTE combined with because.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
He wasn't I guess because he wasn't a current player
would be the only thing, Yeah, that he's been out
of the lea apparently. So apparently he got pulled over.
So let me let me read this story, make sure
I get it right. Keena was He was pulled over
(08:06):
on Wednesday and then ran from police and then was
found dead in the early morning hours of Thursday with
a self inflicted gunshot wound after evading authorities, crashing a car,
and fleeing on foot. So Texas troopers attempted to stop
his car for a traffic violation near First Go on
(08:26):
Wednesday night, launching the brief pursuit, and ultimately he crashed
his car after evading evading authorities and then fled, fled,
fled on foot, and then took his own life. So
I guess the only thing would be he's a current
players opposed to a former player.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, and he had just been in the news for
falling on a touchdown in you know what it was
the one of the only touchdowns that the Cowboys scored
against the Cardinals. So he just come off this like
epic high from a game that they lost, but it
was still a personal you know, achievement and note for him,
and then all this happens.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
It's perplexing.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Like I again speaking about whether whether it's Neeland or
Karen Lacy or you know, anybody else, Like we have
to wait for these details. But some people just have
a real hard time handling like the darkest moments in
their lives and they feel like there's no way out
and the only way out is to take their own life.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
So you're saying that you sat through a moment of
silence and then what there was a billboard messaging with
the suicide hot Lawn hotline. Is that what that was
at the stadium? Yes, okay, because I think that that
that's probably the answer, right. I don't think that you're
celebrating the death. I don't think you're celebrating the life
(09:41):
I mean of Neland as much as you're bringing awareness
to suicide help right in that moment for this, does.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Anybody not know that their suicide prevention lines out there?
And do you call that line if your brain is acting,
you know, it is so depressed and when you're feeling
the cityle.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean that's the whole conundrum, right, you're depressed,
are you going to want to seek help? That's seeking
help is the opposite of being depressed.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Right, And the other part too, it is that we
have more avenues for people to get free help than
we've ever had, and our suicide rates are still high,
if not even higher.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
Dealing with depression is especially you know, especially cumbersome or
difficult with young people. Your brain is still developing. I'll
just have a personal ancdote. We had a kid named
Devin who worked on our family farm in Iowa. Really
nice kid, always seemed very happy, very chipper, was a
great worker, just a sweet kid, and didn't think suicide
(10:47):
was even anything remotely possible. And then like a year
or two after he stopped working on our farm, he
was off at college somewhere he killed himself. And you're
just like why, you just don't understand, because a lot
sometimes chemical depression is you can't it's an inexplicable you know,
it's it's it's like you're feeling this desire in your
brain that just defies logic and rationale, no question.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Now.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I look, I was when I was in Notre Dame.
I most deeply depressed and couldn't kind of pull myself
out of it. But I was never suicidal, right. It
just that's not something I've ever experienced in my life,
knock Wood. But it's a fascinating topic. And I just
remember watching it on all the NFL games and we're
(11:30):
all kind of going through the motions of a moment
of silence, and again, just my it's it's one of
those do we are we recognizing it too much? On
the other hand, I don't know if there is a
too much, because it shows people are truly compassionate, and
(11:51):
maybe it's the look at how much we care for
this guy who we didn't even know, and so maybe
that that can be translated to somebody, you know, is
imagine how people really feel about you. You should not
do this. I don't know, it's a there's no right answer.
I just thought it was worthy of a discussion. But
I thought that was worthy of a discussion, you know,
(12:13):
in a time a little bit after it took place,
which was today, I thought was aff air to breathe.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Let's let's get to what the Fox says and now
every day at this time in the Modut podcast, play
for your portion of my previous show Fox Sports Radio,
Fox Sports One. Here's Ready Quinn talking about Aaron Rodgers
and the Steelers' offense.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I keep going back to this whole time to throw
stat because it was evident watching it, Like I see
Mike as soon as Aaron Rodgers got the ball in
his hand, he wanted to get it out. He leads
the league in that he's digging out faster than any
other quarterback. And I'm not saying that this is like
in direct relation to the fact that you know, Aaron Rodgers,
Brady Ben Roelisberger, all those guys were very, very late
(13:02):
in their career and didn't want to get hit. But
I think that's a part of it. Like, even though
there's an element of, well, these guys know where to
go at the football because they've been playing for so long,
everything's moving in slow motion, there's also an element of
they probably don't want to get hit. You know, your
most important ability is durability, and if you're out there
(13:22):
for the next series, you're out there to live on
to play the next down or live on to play
the next series. That's usually what makes you most effective
and is what's best for your team. So I'm not
knocking it, it's just the problem is when I'm watching
the Steelers offense there, it doesn't feel like there's much
of a I want to say threat because with DK
Metcalf and some of the other speed they've got, with
(13:43):
Austin and Wilson a wide receiver, there's a threat of
them being able to go downfield, but it doesn't feel
like it feels like they're reluctant to do so.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I also think that Brady is not He's saying what
needs to be said without saying it in a way
in which it truly should come across. They don't want
to get hit because they're forty years old and it
hurts a whole lot more and truthfully, they don't really
want to be playing this game. They're gonna get hit
and which is going to cause people to hit him more.
And oh yeah, by the way, we talked about this,
(14:13):
it's The unspoken part about older quarterbacks that you can't
really calculate for is are they willing to take a
hit in order to win a game? And Aaron Rodgers
to this point is not, despite the fact that the
threat the rest of his career, the answer was absolutely.
Here's Nick Right and Chris Broussard talking about the Luca
trade and the firing of Nico Harrison.
Speaker 6 (14:33):
It's simply the worst move an executive is made in
sports in one hundred years.
Speaker 7 (14:39):
It's art Darth.
Speaker 6 (14:40):
It's simply that his humorous and quotes after the fact,
if the trade itself didn't fully do him in, they
did him in. I want to I mean this, and
I know it's just sports, but it's not just sports,
like people that love sports love sports, and it really
(15:02):
does impact like your mood and how you feel and
the the ability to follow a team and follow a player.
What this guy's hubris or ego or owned basketball malfunction
his brain did the MAVs fans is one of the
saddest things I've seen in recent in sports. Said is
(15:24):
what I mean it. We are right, we are used
to in sports. A there's a chance a player is
gonna get mad and demand out like we got it.
We were prepared for that. But if you were a
Mavericks fan, you were just like, like, can you imagine,
Kate of you imagine if in two years and two
(15:44):
more top five MVP finishes, you wake up one morning
and Elliott Wolf traded Drake May.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, listen, it's become an awful trade because Anthony Davis
was hurt and was that foreseeable? Yeah, Kyrie Irving getting hurt,
was that foreseeable? Yeah, But I wouldn't lose track of
the fact that Luca was not getting in better shape
with the Mavericks. It was a yearly it was a
(16:12):
yearly dance they did. And I honestly don't care about
Mavericks fans because they'll come around if you're winning. It
was a volado and risky trade, and this is what
happens when a volado risky trade doesn't pan out. I'd
also point out it's incredibly unfair to UH to judge
him now before everybody's back healthy, because if he gets
(16:35):
Kyrie back healthy, if he gets Anthony Davis back healthy,
it should be a former old team. This is this
is fan talk, not real talk, and I think that's
what Nick is really relating. Here's Colin Cowhert talking about
Kayleb Williams and Ben Johnson today.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
He proves that young talented quarterbacks, even super hyper talented quarterbacks,
they just need a baseline of support and common sense.
Ben Johnson takes this job, does he say, Caleb, I
want more zany flashy plays?
Speaker 2 (17:08):
No.
Speaker 7 (17:08):
The first thing he addresses, we got to get better
at guard, center, guard, not even the most dynamic offensive
line positions. The second thing he says, Hey, I got
to ask you something, Caleb, can.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
You not run backwards?
Speaker 7 (17:23):
I want to eliminate the negative plays and the pre
stat penalties because when you're not first and fifteen or
first and twenty or second in twenty eight because you
got sacked running backwards, you run the ball better and
you run the ball more often, and that helps the quarterback.
But Caleb was not terrible last year. He was wildly flashy.
(17:44):
Twenty touchdown, six picks. It's all the little stuff that
makes great parenting and great quarterback. Because the wild dynamic
running thing that is really really easy for Caleb Williams,
that's innate, that's natural. That's gonna come Caleb's success this
year is on all the minutia of the NFL. Efficiency
(18:08):
matters whether you're at Meta Fox Sports of the Bears,
and suddenly he's the hottest quarterback in the league.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Now, I should point out that the same Colin Cowhard
talk about the exact same quarterback, Caleb Williams seven weeks ago. Today.
Here's what he had to say.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
The coach wants this, and this player is capable of
doing this, and it doesn't mesh. There are two or
three things you have to do in this league. You
have to be consistently accurate, and you have to be
an anticipation thrower. You have to see stuff before it's
wide open, and he doesn't. It also helps if you
(18:47):
have a composure. I don't think he does. Maybe there's
a coach it works with, but this is a marriage.
They don't compliment each other. I don't think it's Ben Johnson.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So Colin doesn't think the mayor it would work seven
weeks ago. Now it's working together perfectly. It's all because
of Ben Johnson. That's what the Fox said.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I say. Be sure to catch live editions of The
Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Let's find out who what is annoying Jason Stewart.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And now it's your annoying, Hey, Doug.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Aaron gwen has been a feature on this segment for
the last few weeks, and it's because he has this
weird relationship with the New York media. Remember a couple
of weeks ago, he just wouldn't tell anybody who the
quarterback was. Two of his very below average quarterbacks. He
wanted to keep it a secret. And then I guess
(19:52):
On Tuesday, Rich Samini reported in the morning that Garrett
Wilson might miss a few weeks and that really ticked
off Aaron Glenn, so he took it out on reporters
and Rich Samini yesterday.
Speaker 8 (20:06):
I'm going to to pass on talking about injuries since
you're Rich, He's not here, has all the answers, so
you can, guys can get all the injuries from Rich.
So I go right into this air game as Rich, Well,
I'm telling you that's Rich. You not here, Well you
better call him. No disrespect to you or Rich, but
like we want to hear it from you. You know,
(20:27):
you guys have been here. You guys have been hearing
from me. But now, since we're just reporting stuff you
know that I haven't said, then maybe you should ask you.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
I just think that his I think in his mind
his strategy this season is I'm going to change the
way this game has been covered and reported on. I'm
going to will the New York media into bending towards me.
I'm going to win this battle with the media and
come out on the other end on top. Does that
(20:56):
ever work, Doug?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Nope? Does that work unless all the way it works
is if you win a lot, a lot of games
and there are ways away from you with that, it
does not work. Who else do you?
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Aj Brown, another guy who's been in this segment, he
said something pretty shitty on a what do you call
those things? When you watch people play video games? You
know that gen Z does it?
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Oh yeah, which I mean Twitch is a stream you
can do it on.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
You sit there and watch people play video games. Some
real famous video game player was playing AJ Brown on
a live stream yesterday. If you got me on Fantasy,
you're rid of That was real short. But that's AJ
Brown telling livestream audience that if you have him in Fantasy,
(21:48):
you could let him go drop him off your roster. So,
just to get this straight, AJ Brown is a top
twenty pick in almost all fantasy leagues, all fantasy drafts.
If you had AJ Brown this year, you probably are
suffering because of it. And AJ Brown, the actual subject
is telling you you should probably drop him. I don't.
(22:11):
I just don't know where to put AJ Brown here.
I don't know, I don't know what to consider him.
The trade deadline came and went, and he stayed an eagle.
The controversial play the other night, Doug that you saw
from Lambeau leap Land, I thought AJ Brown gave up
on that pass. He didn't. He didn't try to catch it.
You know when you see the receiver kind of stop
(22:33):
and jump and try to catch it before the defensive
back gets to it. Like he just kind of gave
up on it. I don't know where to put AJ Brown,
but it's really annoying.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
I would agree with you it is. It's really annoying. Uh,
He's just annoying because he's kind of everywhere, and he
hasn't been relevant in sports in half a decade. But
he's relevant because he's in that Tyson zone. Nothing that
could be said about him. You wouldn't bled to be true.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
So yesterday Donald Trump was on the Pat McAfee show.
So I know, just that comment alone just triggered half
our audience. I get that. And again I'll always say this,
it's a choice to be triggered. You could choose not
to be triggered. But Donald Trump was on the Pat
McAfee show yesterday, so that's significant. And then he said
(23:19):
something about college football sports here it is.
Speaker 9 (23:22):
Well, it is a very serious problem because even football,
when they give quarterbacks twelve million, thirteen fourteen million dollars,
they read a couple of them, and all of a sudden,
you're going to see it's going to be out of control.
And even rich colleges are going to go bust because
you're not going to be able to do this. And
you know, they had the old way. They gave scholarships
and they did lots of good things, but there could
(23:44):
be some form of payment. But when they start bidding
up the costs. Look the NFL and all of you know,
all teams they have caps. You don't really have that
in college sports. And when the guard comes along that
weighs three hundred and fifty pounds, of these phenomenal, and
they say that's going to make the difference between having
a great team and a lousie team, and they give
(24:05):
him ten million dollars. That's going to start happening pretty
so all of a sudden, you're going to have like
NFL type payrolls.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
So there's a there's a couple of ways to go
on this. You could disagree with his thoughts on NL
and what college sports needs to do. You could agree
with it whatever. But the Bacari Sellers and Jamel Hills
are going to choose to say, this is Donald Trump
who doesn't isn't comfortable with young black men making a
lot of money. And that's just it. It's very predictable.
(24:38):
But you coach a college team, I don't know what
percentage of your team is black. I don't know what
the overall percentage of college football players is that are
black versus white. Probably close to fifty to fifty, maybe
it's maybe it's a ratio of sixty forty. I do
know that Eli Manning makes a shit load of money
(24:58):
in NIL and he's not black. Most of the quarterbacks
that are white in Major five conferences are making significant
amount of money. So to make this a racial thing
is so predictable and annoying.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Couldn't agree with you more, couldn't agree with you more
anybody else?
Speaker 3 (25:18):
No Trump, AJ Brown and Aaron GWe.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
I mean, I'm gonna make it. I'll make it. I'll
make it Donald Trump, and just all the ways in
which it becomes something racial, what it does not have
to be.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Why are we doing this.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Because we can?
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Raymond Green had a succinct take about the MAVs firing
Nico Harrison.
Speaker 10 (25:55):
Everybody was shitting on Luca last year. Now Luca's playing
Green and everybody. I want to take that opportunity to
ship on Nico because Dallas is playing bad. But it's
not apples to apples. The team that he constructed to
be out there isn't out there.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, I get it. I mean happens in any of
these bad years, That's generally what happens. Why can't play
it for you? Because we can't? Uh, who would who
would have thought? Who would have thought that? Of all
the guys to be the voice of reason, that's who
is the voice of reason? Raymond Green, Raymond Green, and
(26:38):
that's boys boys talking about with Nico Harrison's like you
can judge me and say, hey, you should have known
if you want to say that Anthony Davis was liking
to get hurt. Okay, Kyrie, you know he's massively injury
prone but had n't been hurt, and he tears his
ACL I'm with you. Nobody wants reality. They just want
to feed the fans, so they're saytiated. That's the end
(27:02):
the Modus Podcast. She got the radio show three to
five Eastern Talk to Pacific, Fox Sports Radio, iHeartRadio app.
I'm Doug Gottlieb
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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