November 15, 2022 • 50 mins
On the Tuesday edition of The Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug explains why he thinks the Eagles have been overrated that past few weeks, and Monday Night's loss to Washington is proof of that.
Senior writer for Yahoo ! Charles Robinson joins Doug for some stimulating conversation about the Jeff Saturday hire, the Packers and other main headlines around the NFL.
Doug talks about which NFL players impact winning most in the league this year.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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The way tire buying should be. Welcome into the boys,
j Stu. We got John Rominson, the Ones and twos
Man Dan buyers here as well. We've got a great
show for you. Um yeah, this this is not a
(01:03):
black and white show. Not a black and white show.
It's just not you know, it's I mean, this is
I have I believe I've identified the biggest problem in
how we cover sports. You ready for it? It's that
we become an all or nothing society. And I was
I was thinking about this, like, um, that extra step
(01:26):
that we take. Here's the example. I heard a topic
today on the TV shows. I guess, uh, Kevin Durant said, Hey,
Lebron James one of the two or three best ballplayers
of all time. And there are some that are like
that was a shot at Lebron, Like, okay, well, one
(01:47):
of the two or three best of the millions of
guys that ever play, of the thousands to play in
the NBA. And I think we know the three that
he's talking about, right, like if you had three? And
I would actually point out that if if there's a
bigger discussion that you know, people don't want to have this,
(02:07):
but I'm gonna have it. Dan Buyer, If I were
to say, if if Kevin Durants thinking of three ball
players greatest of all time and one includes Lebron James,
who would the other two be? I would I would
guess Michael Jordan would be one. That would be a
good guess. Um. And And I'm actually a little stumped
on it because I don't want to. I think the
(02:29):
most obvious answer is, in fact, the answer, Oh, okay,
I think it's do you think he's talking about himself?
I thought it was himself or I thought it was
Kobe for generational purposes, that honestly, that that's that's four
good ones, right, four good ones. And by the way,
if you threw in Matgic Johnson, Larry Bird, no one,
no one who has brain is actually going to argue
(02:51):
with you, right, So so it's not a slight. It's
actually incredible. It's not really an argument, like, of course, yeah,
he's one of the best ballplayers of all time. But like,
remember we didn't mention Wilt Chamberlain, we didn't mentioned Kareem
abdul Jamar. No, well, let's go to Hunter in the game.
He had fifty game and I wouldn't put him in
the top three of all the time. I wouldn't, you know.
(03:12):
But I didn't see him play. Like all my all
my wild stuff is based upon what my dad said
and things that I've read and seen, but I didn't
see my own eyes. I don't know, you know. So
the point is that that's not a slight, that's just
him going like, look, he's one of the two or
three best players of all time. That that's actually a
slightly Larry Bird because Larybird is not considered any of
those conversations, and when Larry Bird played, everyone considered him
(03:34):
part of any of those conversations. It's like we've forgotten
and honestly, Maggie Johnson should be in any of the
same list. Those two guys save the NBA, built the
NBA back to what it is now. And oh yeah,
by the way, they dominated the NBA for the better
part of a decade. One was brought down by injuries,
the other uh by HIV where he had to and
and he was aging anyway. But um, I think I
(03:58):
don't know how we got to a point where that's
a slight right, So I would use that as the
same thing I'm gonna talk about Philadelphia. I'm happy they lost.
I don't think I've never thought we've done our list
of top ten teams on the end of Bonus podcast.
There has not been a week where I've listed them
as the number one team, even though they have fewer
(04:18):
losses up until yesterday than anybody else in the league,
and and one of their wins is over another team
with one Here's what's funny about it. This is what's
amazing about it? The Eagles now have one loss? Right?
Who else has one? Who else has one loss in
the season? Minnesota? Right? So would Minnesota be an auto
(04:43):
number one to anybody who's ranking the league? The answer
is no, Why, there's only one answer or what's what's
what's the answer to that one? Well? They lost to
the Eagles. Kirk Cousins, Kirk Cusins, Kirk Kirk Cousins right,
Like Kirk Cousins is, he's the only and and here's
(05:03):
the crazy part. If you had to pick for an
NFL playoff game, who would rather have as your quarterback?
Jalen Hurts er Kirk Cousins and I. I think our
conversation might be more mixed. And again it's a nuanced
conversation because with the Eagles offense, you'd probably take Jalen
(05:26):
Hurts because they emphasize running. It's eleven all eleven football.
But generally, if you're like, who would you rather have
as quarterback? And you watch ask ask actual football people
there to go like Kirk Cousins, that's easy. He's actually
one road playoff games before. He's a far more accomplished pastor.
He's been the league. You know a lot longer, but
(05:46):
because you know, non prime time Kirk is a real thing.
No nobody would choose, no fan would choose Kirk Cousins.
So my point is that no one's gonna rank the
Vikings number one to day or if you said, hey,
the Vikings are a really good team, but I don't
truly believe in them. You know you're you're coding the
(06:07):
message and we know why. It's because of Kirk Cousins.
Keep in mind that yes, they lost the Eagles, they
smacked the they smacked the Packers, they beat the Dolphins
who were in first place, right um, and the same
commander's team that just that just beat the Eagles they
beat last week. But no one's gonna rank them. I
wouldn't rank them as one of the top three teams
(06:28):
in the NFL, even though they probably have the best
wide receiver. When Adam Theland's healthy, they got the best
They might have the best skilled position guys in the league. Right,
Dalvin Cook, Adam Theland and Justin Jefferson, tell me there's
a threesome that's better and at best you're getting to
a push. But because of Kirk Cousins. So look, I've
never bought into the Eagles as being some dominant team.
(06:49):
I think they have a really good roster. I think
they've been smart. Right, You've got a young quarterback who
doesn't make any money, so you can spread that money out.
You probably overpaid a J. Brown, but that's fine. You
can over pay a wide receiver when you're not paying
your quarterback anything. When you're not paying your running backs anything.
You know they've actually spent pretty wisely. The questionable spending
(07:10):
would be if they re up with Jalen Hurts for
gigantic money and now he's not nearly as good because
he can't surround him with the players. But what happened
last night, it was just the exposure of the Eagles.
They're good, but kind of like how the Ravens play,
and when you run that style of offense and you
get behind, it gets more difficult. When he's forced to throw,
(07:31):
it gets more difficult. There's just some throws that he
doesn't make. That's why he was viewed as he's viewed.
That's why they couldn't do anything in the playoffs. And
the second time around or the more tape there is
on what they're doing, this is par for every course
of all of this, it's why many people want the
Ravens to evolve offensively. I don't think they should because
I think Lamar is better at what he does similar
(07:54):
offense whatever, than anyone who's ever done it. And even
if it has its drawbacks, it at worst shortens the
game and then you gotta win with your defense. Now,
maybe their defense isn't good enough anymore, but that last
night was that this is what the Eagles are. They're
really good. And when they dominated that second quarter and
half a leaded at halftime and run the football and
pin their ears back and get after your passer, they
(08:16):
got beat by backup quarterback. They got beat by Washington
team at home who didn't have their best player, Chase Young,
not yet clear to play in games. That's what they
got beat by. They played a really soft schedule. They
did beat the Vikings, right, and they did beat the Cowboys,
but the Cowboys had Cooper Rush. So I you know,
(08:37):
I don't think there's that much discernible difference between the
Eagles and all the other top teams in the league,
and the difference to the Eagles in the top teams
the league when they get to the playoffs, is Jil
Hurts is in his second year as a full time starter.
He has some limitations as a thrower. Um, he's a
great runner. He does all checks, all the boxes off
the football field of what you need. This is not
(08:58):
a this this is a angeble thing, not an intangible thing.
Here's Nick Sirianni on the loss. Whether the calls were
bad or whether the calls were good or whatever it was.
I think when you play the way we did tonight,
and when you play the way we did on all
three phases offense, defense, special teams, coaching, when you play
(09:20):
like that, it seems like everything's going against you. You
create your own luck. And we played like crap. Those plays,
those those scenarios that happen when you play like that
get magnified, right, the what if it whether it was
the right call or wrong call, And so we made
our own luck today and uh, and we and it
was bad. I completely agree. And by the way, that's
(09:40):
a super super super super mature way of discussing as
a coach, right, And he threw himself in there. Hey,
the coaching was bad. Their special teams is an issue.
It's gonna be an issue for them. And yeah, Taylor
Heineke giving himself up and still getting hit, and others
like we had his other knee up, like Duty gave
himself up. You know the rules. You don't have to
(10:02):
like the rules. That's roy. You give yourself up, you
can't hit them. It was a really, really dumb play.
If you don't like the call, that's fine. That's the rule.
Everybody knows the rule. It's just a case of you're
probably going too fast and you misjudge that he go down,
is you're standing up, Holy crap, I screwed up. Happens,
It happens. This is Jalen Hurts talking about how the
(10:24):
team will respond to loss. Idea about that. You know,
I think in reality, I think I'm in the end.
It's about us doing the things that we can um
and controling the things that we can. And I think
tonight we we weren't. We weren't doing that at a
hot level, you know, and today a goddess. It doesn't
get you until it gets you, and today of goddess.
So we learned from it. We moved forward fair enough.
(10:46):
You know. We also do this thing. We do it
in basketball, like Grambling beat Colorado, and the stories about
Man Colorado. What a joke? Right, Um? You see Irvine
beat Organ Like, well you see your color Oregan pack
twelve sucks, right, and we see it, you know throughout
the kind of landscape of college basket, especially the time
here because you're playing these no names, lesser name schools.
(11:07):
You know, we don't do we don't talk about those
schools that actually pulled off the upset. We don't talk
about Taylor Heineke. Like, how incredible story is this for
Taylor Heineke. You know, I mean everybody by now knows
he was enrolled at Old Dominion and they talked him
out of it and got him to coming play more football.
And he actually played well against the Buccaneers the year
(11:28):
the Buccaneers won the Super al Right, he actually that
was a that was a close, close game, and he
did some really good things. And he's as well as
he can handle it. He's handled the Carson Wentz thing
really well. And he goes in there and beats the
the Eagles when they're undefeated at home on Monday night football.
(11:50):
Here's Taylor Heineke after the game. Not at all. Um,
you know I said it back in O t s.
You know, we we brought Carson in to be the starter,
and if if my number was called, I'll be ready
to go in. So, you know, whatever decision they want
to make, um, let's go. You know, if if I'm
backing up Carson next week, great, I'm help him anyway
I can to get ready for that Texans game. So
the biggest thing for me, let's let's just go win.
(12:10):
Let's keep winning, whether me planning or not. Uh, this
is a really simple one in terms of what you do.
You absolutely start Carson Wentz if he's healthy, and you
can always bring Taylor Henek in if he's if it's
not going well, especially against the Texans. Right, Like, dude, Carson,
you can't be the Texans. You shouldn't be doing this.
But more than anything, Taylor Heinek you can bring it
off the bench. He only makes like two million dollars
(12:32):
a year. Whereas the mentality of if Carson Wentz is
that guy, right, Carson Wentz becomes that guy who's coming
off the bench once he's benched for Taylor Heineke. I
don't think mentally there's there's recovering from it. I just
don't buyer. You agree with that that sentiment that you
you start Carson as soon as he's healthy, knowing you
(12:53):
can always bring Taylor Henik in. Or do you go
with the quote unquote hoth Hand. I go with the
hot Hand. Okay, they're five and five right now. Oh
they're gonna get Chase Young back to Yeah, they have
the Texans this week. So but don't you think you again,
(13:15):
My belief is if Carson is healthy, you start him
because like, look that you can you can do well
against Texans and you can always bring Hanky enough. I
think that that's that's one way of thinking about it.
But I just go back to hot Hand, and I
feel that, like, like Heineke brings a different energy. I
mean totally we see it on TV. I can't imagine
(13:36):
what it's like in the locker room and and with
those players, and so yeah, I just they're starting to
get stuff going. And Heineke is not perfect. There were
some thrills last night that were but um, there is
a little it factor with him. I would I would
agree there's an energy. We like this guy, we want
(13:57):
to play for this guy. What would you do? JAS two?
Is there something in between here? Guys? Is there a um?
Is there a you know, Carson needs an extra week
to do this and then uh, and then play him
this week? Or is this kind of one of those
things where if he's officially cleared, there's there's no doing that.
I just it's the Texans. If if if a guy
who if we were all honest about Carson Wentz and
(14:20):
what he appears to have lost, confidence is the thing, right,
And I mean I don't know, I can't set you
up for a better game to come back. Then then
then the Texans that that would that would be my
my my pushback. But yeah, I mean like look if
you if you could hold them out and they play
the Lions the following week, right, like you gotta find
(14:41):
somebody somewhere. They play the Texans, then the Falcons. The
Falcons aren't great either, so he's got two games to
get his game together. And then they have that weird
scheduling quirk that somebody else had earlier year where they
play the Giants bye week. Then the Giants, Falcons and
Panthers just played twice in eleven days. Yeah, that's the
(15:04):
other's the other, that's the other team that This is
the weirdest scheduling quirk I've ever seen where you literally
play the Giants in back to back games with a
week off in between. That's weird. That's really weird. It's
weird too because that their division games, that these are happening,
because I know that they saved them for the end
of the year, for the final week where you're going
(15:26):
to have at least one division game. I would think
that you could spread the five others out enough, one
would think. But there's some sort of a lot of
it probably comes down to how they wanted to get
tom on TV right late in the year for that
team and what they did with Tampa that I mean,
the priority prioritize. Now, the Giants are usually a TV priority,
although they've been bad, so maybe it's these are bad
(15:47):
teams that's why they're doing it. I don't know, but
Washington and the Giants is a big draw, that's a
big TV and one of them is a night game
right when I think a Sunday night game as of now,
unless I don't think it'll get flexed out. This is
the best of the dun Got Leap Show on Fox
Sports Radio, broadcasting live from the studios of Fox Sports Radio.
(16:19):
Here's Doug Godlieb I feel like I feel like we
should do like ballad Tuesdays or something something. I didn't
the words not come out right the watch ry, but
I guess that's why they say it bruse as its thone,
(16:44):
just like no, you guys got your they don't lighters anymore.
When there's lighters and now you do the phone right.
Charles Robinson is on hold Yahoo Sports senior NFL reporter
(17:06):
has got you pod to win the game. He's probably
in They're going like, what did I walk into? Why
are they playing old Morton crue? We were talking rock
ballads earlier in the show. Do you have a favorite
rock ballad you would like to you'd like to throw
the hat and throw into the hat? What was the uh?
I should know this because it's my era. What's the
Guns and Roses song that's like twenty four minutes long
(17:28):
with the remember November? That was the November? It was
like the impetus of this whole discussion. Great job, job,
let's go on, right, I think, So what do we
learn do we What do we learned about the Eagles
last night? Um? I mean I don't. Here's the thing
(17:50):
I wouldn't. Every Rose has a store that that we're listening.
Come on, I mean, they were gonna be is this
was gonna be am no team, right And and I think,
if anything, I think the Eagles are capable of I
think they've advanced to the point where they're capable of
taking an opponent lightly. Honestly. That's how I felt when
I watched that game. And and I'm surprised that no one.
(18:15):
I think Jalen Hurts calls his number a lot. I
think it's interesting. Um, I think he has a lot
of control of that offense. And I think if you
go back and you watch that that game, you will
see scenarios where the offense is geared for Jalen Hurts
to make make decisions. And he calls his number a lot,
both running and throwing the football. And I I'm fine
with that, But you know, there's gonna be some criticism
(18:36):
to come on on the other side of it. They're
gonna need a run game at some point, and it
can't all come from him, and he's going to have
to incorporate, you know, the tools around him more than
I think he did last night. Well, I would, I
would tell you that when he was at Oklahoma, Okay,
people at Oklahoma, they said, like, and he was only
there for a year, so it was a little it
was a little weird, right, but they said like, yeah,
(18:59):
he's little bit, he's a lot more about him then
he lets on because he's so good the press conferences
and he's so good on the social media, he's a
little bit more about him. And in an effort to
protect him, because they didn't he not a progression read
guy was they started more design runs more and more
design runs as the season went on, and then they
just kind of told him like, look, if you don't
(19:20):
like your first read run it, and uh that that
was that was their feeling towards him. I just think
that the that when you get to the people have
the book on your run game, they're gonna make you
throw from the pocket. And he's still just not great
at it. He's okay, he's you know, he really experienced,
but he's not. That's not what he does best. And
(19:40):
I just thought that someone's limitations and it wasn't all him,
Like there was turnovers as well that weren't his fault.
But I think some of that Reard's head last night. Yeah,
And I want to be fair too, I mean it
wasn't like I mean, here in the wall six times.
I just think it was early on. You're sort of
watching that game and you're like, okay, well it was.
I think it was pretty late in the person. I'm like,
when is Miles Sanders hurt? Like I literally asking myself,
(20:03):
I'm like, did I miss something? Um and another thing
to look they did. I thought Washington did a really
good job of bracketing A J. Brown And they're like,
all right, if we take the sky away, which is
a heavy hitter, let's see, you know how he adjusts.
And you know DeVonta Smith, obviously he did his numbers.
But they're not gonna win a lot of games. Well,
(20:24):
I don't want to say that, they're going to be
somewhat fallible. If Quas Watkins is your guy, If that's
your guy, and and that's what teams are probably gonna
look at this and they're gonna say, okay, takeaways number
one and let's see if he can beat us having
to throw the Quas Watkins having to throw at Davanta Smith,
who's you know, good player. But again, neither of those
(20:45):
guys is remotely near the level of of A. J.
Brown At first point um, and and see if Hurts
shifts more toward taking the burden of offense on himself
in terms of like calling his number with runs and um,
if he can be accurate from the pocket. Again. When
it ended, I said to myself, don't don't get warped
over this game, like there there were a team that
(21:06):
wasn't going to to finish seventeen and oh the final
score made the score look even worse than it really was.
This was a you know, it wasn't the thirty two
point you performance by the Washington Commanders. But um, yeah,
I'm just I'm trying not to read too much into this.
It's still I still think the Eagles are one of
the two best teams of football right now. Okay, I'll
(21:26):
put I'll put three. I'll still put Buffalo in that.
Why you wouldn't include Buffalo? And then I think, but
it's yeah, I think that. If you want to say,
I think, I would put I think Kansas City is
the best team in the NFL. I think Patrick Mahomes
m v p Um. I would put Philly two and
I put Buffalo three. The thing about Buffalo is it's
(21:46):
interesting because they're dealing kind of with their own situation
with Josh Allen, who the stat that's gotten repeated most
now is the four interceptions in the red zone the
last two games. But it's this mentality thing that he
still hasn't worked out of out of I think his game,
which is pushing every single time. You know, it's all gas,
no breaks, touchdown every time you go down there, you
(22:07):
get into the red zone. There's an economy of kind
of playing a little more conservatively, especially when momentum is
going your way, and you know he's prone to sometimes
making mistakes of over aggression. I think because he's got
the army does um. You and I have seen football
for a lot of decades, right, reminds me. You'd see
(22:28):
Elway do this, You'd see Brett Farve do this. You'd
see every guy with a cannon would have a mentality
of I can do it like I can do it.
They have a cape mentality. And he's got that, yeah,
which is you don't want to take that away from him,
but you want to find a way to temper it, right,
You want to find a way to to to to
temper it. Um. Okay, So I when Jeff Saturday got
(22:50):
named head coach, a text. I have three g ms
that that get back to me pretty quickly. All of
them said shocked. One of them who had spent time
and in he was like shocked. But if there's a
guy who could do it and a place he could
do it, indies the place because he knows that place
like the back of his hand, and all of all
(23:11):
analysts are not to create this. I had Tjans out
on last hour, were like, some guys show up and
just talk football and go home and do their thing.
Some people are all about it, right, everybody's different. He's
all about it. Like I didn't think it was crazy,
especially considering Nathaniel Hackett has been trained for this his
whole life, right, Like this is his whole life has
been built up and he's not any good at it.
(23:33):
So the idea you have to come through a system
of learning to be a coach. All right, Now we've
seen him for a week. What are people in the
NFL saying? Look, I don't think I think there is
room even in the NFL. And I'm not saying this
is the situation. But if you ask me, could steep
her ever happened? Now we know? You know Steve Kerr
(23:53):
was a GM and everything, but you know, or even
you know, I thought Steve Nash, you know, had you know,
clearly got banged. It wasn't like it was just an
absolute catastrophe. It wasn't you know, it's not morning morning
weeg with the Lions. Kind of a situation. Is the
room in the NFL for a guy to come in
and actually succeeded this. Yeah, I mean, I think law
(24:14):
of averages if it you know, it's been sixty years
since somebody tried this, there's a chance that somebody could
try it and have it be successful. I think what
people have to get used to is he you know,
could he be a coach CEO? And what I mean
by that is is he someone And I actually think
they tried to say this in the press conference, even
though I thought it was a loopie press conference. Um,
(24:35):
you know, I'm trying to bring this guy in to
really install like kind of a mentality and a culture
and in a way, and he wasn't saying be a cheerleader,
but there's an element of being a cheerleader of trying
to Um, I guess changed the vibe in the building.
And you're right, everybody knows Jeff Saturday. He's been around
that that team in some respects, whether it was as
(24:57):
an as an analyst, he has been a voice in
the market for a long time. Um he was there
in training camp on a few occasions. Clearly he was
a consultant for not only arth Say, but other people
in the building for quite a while. So it's not
like it's just a complete and total disconnected guy. I
still think, even though you know he wins one game,
(25:19):
I don't know whether or not this is still to
still be a disaster. I the one thing he did
during the week that I thought was interesting. So Tuesday
he wakes up, he hasn't known his offensive play caller
is going to be his news quarterback is going to
be Um. He's still gotta, you know, talk to the players.
He's he's still dealing with coaches who know they were
bypassed for him. He did the one thing that I
(25:40):
thought was going to be the most effective decision, and
that was to tell er say, I know you bench
Matt Ryan, We're gonna go ahead and reverse that. He's
got to be out on the field. He knows his
offense better than anybody else who's now in the building.
Because everybody else has been fired. We need to have
him on the field. If you want me to be
your coach, I need to win games. This is the
only way we're gonna do it is we put them
(26:00):
back in because Sam Alan Gerr is not going to
do it. I agree, And and part of again, the
biggest part about being a head coach is not calling
the play on third down, Right, The biggest part is
you're managing people and you have to not just manage down,
You've got to manage up as well. So you have
to orsay has to respect you. You have to have
(26:22):
a working Hey, man, I can't do this unless I'm
allowed to do, Like, what's the point of me coming
out of ESPN putting myself And if you don't let
me pick my own quarterback, pick my own play called,
let me, let me do my own thing. And so
the problem with the discussion we're having is it has nuance,
and there just doesn't appear to be any time or
desire for most people in our profession to to actually
(26:45):
discuss the nuance. Right that that's that That's that's my
biggest issue with it. But I would say this, there
is an element of fairness that as you said you
talked to GM sewart Shot. I was in the same
scenari everybody I talked to you. So people didn't even
believe it. They were just like, is this real? Like
is this really actually happening? It's within the own, you know,
(27:05):
within the profession. It was. It was stunning, you know,
and for coaches that was infuriating because all those individuals
that were still there. You build up your resume, you
you know, you bond with the players, you're there sent
training camp and your thought processes. I've put in all
this hard work so that if something takes a left
turn I could potentially have the opportunity to step in
(27:27):
front of these guys and say, hey, I've been here
with you. I put in the work with you, you know,
So I I get I still think the criticism, I
truly do. I believe the criticism is valid. Now, two
things can be true. The criticism can be valid and
he could succeed. Okay, they can both be true. Um,
it's it's I think there's space for both. Ultimately, he's
(27:47):
got his opportunity if he wins out, you know, if
he wants out, let's say he you know, let's say
even loses a couple of games, two games, whatever. If
he really seems to turn it around, what are we
gonna say, you know, okay, or so it took a show. Now,
you know, he's got to figure out how to satisfy
the Rooney role, which he dug that hole for himself.
It is what it is. People may not like it,
(28:08):
but he knew what he was getting into when he
did this. And you know, he moves forward with Jeff Saturday,
and you have to hope that in and beyond it
continues to to pay dividends because at any point this
comes up short. Everybody who sat there and said, yeah,
this was a complete sham and it's a ridicul you know,
it's an embarrassment. I mean we heard Bill Cower, Hall
of Fame coach ripping it to shreds Joe Thomas, you know,
(28:30):
first ballot Hall of Fame left tackles ripping it to shot.
I mean it was and to me, that was emblematic
of everybody. There wasn't anybody I heard in the NFL
that wasn't piste off about this. And I know run
long here, but I will give you one example though.
When John Lynch got the job in San Francisco, multitude
of personnel, people who I knew, who were beside themselves,
piste off that John Lynch could walk into a general
(28:53):
manager job like that. Now years later, if you talk
to those people, they begrudgingly have to mint he was
the right fit for what Kyle's personality was, and like
you said, manage up, managed down, got to work with people.
He was the right fit for that situation and it
has worked because he was who he was. So it
was the right judgment call. But at the time it
(29:15):
did look terrible, very much like that that that's actually
a great amount. That's a really really good analogy. Um okay,
so let let's let's get a couple other things in
the league here. Packers they finally kind of cracked that
code on Hey, we're a running team. We got Aaron
Jones run the hell out of football, and then Christian
(29:35):
Watson after he had a couple of drops early the game,
and Aaron Rodgers still still through it to him may
because he had to. Um right, is it a is
it an outlier game or is it the beginning of
the Packers figuring it out? Well? I will say this, Um,
(29:56):
I have little doubt that the Dallas Cowboys were repped
on Christian Watson. What's gonna be interesting is let's see
what Tennessee does, right, because now they know. And the
thing about Watson was if you watch the Packers when
I mean he's hurt all season long, right in and out,
in and out. But when you watched him, including that
first game where he drops, you just horrible drop touchdown
(30:17):
you know bomb from Rogers, he was always running. He
is crazy fast, like he just runs by guys, he
just get catch. And even against the Cowboys, like you said,
he had three horrible drops. And the thing is, though,
and I would I would kind of say this about
like justin fields. You watch him play a game like that,
(30:38):
he catches a couple. You saw his reaction. I'm sure
it was a monumental relief to him. And maybe he
catches finally catches that groove of confidence, right Like you're like,
remember when Jamar Chase was dropping stuff in the preseason
where like, oh my god is and then that first
game comes out he lights it up. You're like, yeah,
he's good, like you're good. Like he's said he's he
knows he can do this. The question is does Watson
(30:59):
now go, okay, man, I got this, and and also
does Aaron Rodgers go, you know what it's worth it
even if it's a shot. He's running past. First it
was one defender, then it's two. I mean the cowboys
were throwing two guys on him, and he was just
straight up out running him. It wasn't like a stop
and go from Davante Adams where it just you know,
he jukes the guy out of his cleats. He was
just straight up speed and you know so I think
(31:24):
what really we got to figure out is let's see
what the Titans do, because they're gonna be ready for that.
They know. They're like, okay, we saw it's on film.
This guy can you know, straight up run past you.
How do we stop this? And then we got to
see whether or not Watson himself can adjust to it
and continue to catch at least, you know, some meaningful
balls that keep you know, keeps Roger's face in it.
If it If that is real, I will say this
(31:45):
it's an element they have not had and it can
be pretty transformative. Um, Davante Adams and the Raiders are
a mess. Now. Mark Davis came out and gave him
the vote of confidence. And you know, again, same people
that I texted about Saturday had told me a long
time ago, like McDaniels likely learned from Denver stuff. Good
(32:06):
football guy. They'll be fine. But my what helped me
back to start the season was he had so much
change in the organization, right, so much, I mean, and
from the non football side, that whole front office has changed,
the football side, president, GM, head, coach, players, everybody, everything's
changed out like that. That does not consistency and continuity
(32:27):
is what kind of wins the day. But does Josh
McDaniels see year two in Vegas? Yes, he does, he will.
He will see year two. And I and I think
even even if there weren't other reasons in the building,
and I'll give you those reasons in a second, even
if there were another reasons in the building. Mark Davis
cash poor, we all know it. Okay, he just settled
with John Gruden. He's not gonna pay Josh McDaniels and
(32:49):
then pay another coach on top of it to come
in there, and potentially who knows, maybe that guy doesn't
you know, like the fact that they spent what they
spent on Davante Adams, I mean, he's committed to this calculus,
which is why Mark Davis comes out and says, the
guys played nine games, okay, Like the vote of confidence
is when I hired him. Mark Davis knows he's my coache.
I think he kind of wanted to nip in the butt.
(33:09):
So context of what's going on there before Derek Carr
gets to the podium and he's you know, crying and
emotional before Donte Adams says what he says. Apparently after
the game ended, they go in the locker room and
there were some guys who just didn't take the loss
to that hard, you know, and I don't. I mean,
they just weren't. The phrase that was used to me
(33:30):
which I can't stay on the radio, I mean basically
was just um, they weren't taking it very hard. It
wasn't not I want, I don't want to put it
on the level of like Moneyball, where they had like
Jason Giambie like dancing and then you know Brad Pitt,
you know, Bashion in a boom box. But like, there
were clearly some guys that were not as disturbed and
that royally Piste off Car and Adams basically they were
(33:50):
like you all need to be crushed. Okay, we're here
to do this. This was an embarrassing loss that tought
me to feel like we feel and if you don't,
you're not on the same page. So that's kind of
what happened when they came out and they said, you know,
they basically alluded to the locker room, like, hey, there's
some people that they've got to be on the same
page here. When when I talked to someone there, what
(34:12):
I was like, the feeling that not feeling. I mean,
it's straight up to it. Like, look, if when I
went through there in July, if I had said to
Josh McDaniels, Dave's eagler to g M if I had said, hey,
guess what, Hunter Renfrow not gonna have him, Um, Darren
wall was not really going to have him, they would
have said our offensive screwed, Like the offensive line isn't
good anyway, Like we've already got problems there. We can't
(34:33):
lose two of our top three pass catchers and we're
already looking to try and find a third wide receiver
to pair with Hunter Renfro and DAVONTEE. Adams. If you're
gonna take away Waller and Renfro, What are we doing?
Like who he's throwing too? And if the offensive line
is not protecting, it means we can't let routes develop,
which means we're not going to throw the ball down
the field a lot. It's you know it. It compounds things.
(34:55):
And I think defensively, you know Chandler Jones and he's
I don't know what happened. I have no clue why
a player would go off the cliff that quickly. But
I think Chandler Jones is not like a system function.
I think he's fallen off significantly and I don't think
that's something that they expected. And that's also something they're
grappling with. So who's going to be on the sharp
(35:17):
end of the stick here. I think they'll blame the
defensive coordinator. And I think there's a chance that they
may look at Derek Carr and say, well, we got
a shot at the top, you know, drafted quarterback. Let's
see if anybody's interested in Derek Carr. And if they
do that, there's gonna be interesting. There's gonna be teams
that will we'll line up to trade for Derek Carr.
And it's like a five point six million dollar dead cap,
so it's totally possible. Derek Carcass trade Charles Robinson the
(35:39):
podcast called you Pod to Win the Game. God is
working who Sports completely connected and tight into everything that
goes on the Nation Football League. Charles. I can't tell
how much I appreciate you joining us. Absolute thanks for
let me dog Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
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(36:05):
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The way tire buying should be so buyer if you
(36:27):
you'd indulge me in. Guys, you want to hop in
on this like this is the conversation. We do this
all the time. Like Aaron Rodgers not having a great year.
They're not throwing the ball that much. Tom Brady is not.
Pat Mahomes is okay, is having a very very good year,
but there have been games in which he's made some
bad plays, like we could put some some things on him. Uh.
They also don't run the football, so the numbers are
gonna be skewed as such. But I guess, I guess
(36:49):
the question becomes, like we always do this, where does
the MVP had to be the quarterback? Like, well, the
quarterbacks the quarterback of the team. And if that's so,
then then Kirk Cousins should be, you know, front and center,
right if wins and losses are a quarterback stat, which
on some levels they are. Um, why why is it
the case that Kirk Cousins doesn't get well because he
(37:09):
hasn't played well and big games previously at night? Like, okay,
that's that's fair. Um, In terms of affecting winning as
a player, I don't know. Mike Michael Parsons to me
is the best player in football in the NFL. I
also think that, if we're also gonna be honest, um,
the Aaron Donald contract is gonna be a bad one.
(37:31):
It's gonna be a bad one. I know he's still
really good, but his level of desire, maybe his level
of of athleticism at some point it's gonna wane if
it hasn't already. And I know you're like, well, last
year they had Bond Miller alongside him, Like okay, but
we can't afford to pay more. Guys were paying him
top dollar, paying Stafford top dollar paying you know, they
redid Cooper Cup. They read everybody's contract and at some
(37:53):
and you have no draft picks. Here's the part about
the Rams that like no one's talking about, right, the
Rams lose Cooper up today, probably for the season, right,
And um, if you the way in which you build
a football team and it's like old Rams f them
draft picks whatever, like that's great. You can do that
(38:17):
if you have a bunch of guys on a reasonable contract.
If you have top of the market contracts for Aaron
Donald who is at the back end of his career,
for Cooper Cup who didn't take the top of the
market money but still plenty of money. For Matt Stafford,
who not top of the market, but right there in
the discussion, like you start to get those guys and
then you're like, okay, well you how what do you
(38:38):
fill out the rest of the roster with you fail
out the rest of the rust everybody else fills out
the rest of the roster with draft picks. They don't
have the draft picks, and then the draft picks you do,
have you got a hit when it's a volume play. Yes,
the Seahawks were great in the draft this past year.
Dan Buyer can go through year after year of all
(38:58):
the misses they've had trying to crack the code. It
ain't for lack of trying. But anyway, I digress to me,
Michael Parsons, Buyer makes a great point. Like Tyreek Hill,
he has what's called in basketball they call gravity. I
don't know if they call gravity in the NFL. They should,
(39:19):
And it's the idea you got whoever's checking him, and
then everybody else You see Tyree Hill and you're like,
it gets your attention and it opens up everything else
for everybody. And the point that I think he's making
and why the two of her m VP becomes almost laughable,
is if you take Tyreek Hill off that team two
is probably gonna get replaced as a quarterback. But because
(39:41):
of Jim and Waddle to a tong of volo, but
mostly Tyreek Hill, it's it's it makes it look easy
for a guy who arms strength wise, there can be
a struggle. You know, I've we've done this show. I've
been on your show for about five and a half years,
(40:02):
and I think I've said it about ten times. And
and so I hope you remember John remembers and Jason
as well. I've always loved Tyreek hills receiving ability, his
skills as a receiver, and those are like finally popping
up right now. And you want to talk about the constant,
Like the Dolphins have a bunch of pieces now to
put something together. But how many of us thought that
(40:24):
Tyreek Hill? You know, I want to why would you
want out of Kansas City? You know, like, who would ever?
Why would you want? You're gonna win, You're gonna do,
you know, do your own thing. You just you wanted
out because you wanted a new contract, and Cheese are
gonna give it to us. L you know, see you later.
But to see what he hasn't missed a beat, you know,
I mean, like, hasn't missed a step whatsoever. So it's
(40:46):
it's what's the constant? And that's to to me is
I don't know what the Dolphins would have looked like
without Tyreek Hill? But I know what they look like
with him, and it may not be what Kansas City was,
but it's darn closed and it's darn impressive. Yeah, he's
he's got that Steve Smith thing, right, only he's got
(41:06):
world class speed. And by Steve Smith, usually the wide
receivers that we've come to love as the best in
the league. And Stefan dig is another guy who's not big,
great route runner, unbelievably explosive speed. Right. Usually we think
you've gotta be bigger to go and make plays, and
this guy is a dynamic route runner. He's tougher than hell. Right,
(41:28):
you had great hits and then you throw in world
class speed and agility I had. I had the scouts
tell me. The first time anybody saw him play was
when Oklahoma State opened the season Jerry's World against Florida State,
and most of the scouts were like expecting, like, you
go to see Florida State because the speed they have
outside the numbers. And when they went, they met with
(41:50):
the Oklahoma State guys, they saw him practice a little bit.
They're like, this is the fastest guy we've ever recruited,
We've ever seen, We've never seen anything like it, anything
like it, and that was their takeaway, like, I've never
seen anything like the speed that he had. I've never
seen anything like it, and he's so fast and explosive.
You sometimes you lose track of the fact that he's
a really good wide receiver and you make a great point,
(42:13):
and I think he's actually a pretty good blocker as well.
I'm like a ton, you know, but he's actually a
pretty good blocker. Chase too. If I was gonna ask
you your m v P S if you made it,
the best player who had actually been the league. So
the best all around player in the league that affects
winning is Patrick Mahomes. Now that is not interesting. It's
(42:37):
not a new angle. It's not I think he's I
think Mahomes is the tops odds right now for m
v P UM. But for the reasons you guys just
kind of laid out. The more you talked about Tyreek
Hill and how good he is, the more I thought,
wait a minute, Mahomes hasn't missed a beat without Tyreek Hill.
So that's that's my answer. There is that wrong? No,
(43:04):
what do you think to say that last part? Sorry,
I got a phone call in the studio. No, it
was just as you guys were talking about tyreek Hill.
The other side of that coin for me was you
take tyreek Hill off the Chiefs and Mahomes is still
playing at a caliber of level where I think he's
the top um in the odds right now for to
(43:24):
win the m v P. So that that was my answer.
Patrick Mahomes, I have no problem with that. I think
Doug you had him one in the rankings. You had
Mahomes is the m v P. And I know I
reigned on Mahomes parade or the Chiefs parade November Ranner, uh,
following that win against the Titans um where by the way,
Mahomes was, you know, otherworldly with his arm and his legs.
(43:48):
But yeah, I mean it's you talk about constants. What's
the constant constant in Kansas City? They keep moving, Patrick Mahomes,
Tyreek Hill continues, his production has lifted it up, like yeah,
pretty impressive. I mean, I I wouldn't take any Mahomes
would obviously be in my top two or three as well.
(44:12):
If I'm going to Kevin Durant this ye, by the way,
does anybody does anybody really offended by by what Kevin
durandt said about lebron James in the altime. I just
feel like it's such fake outrage. I mean it's the problem,
like just everybody just falls out of stuff kissing le
Bronze ass so much. It's just like, oh my goodness,
(44:32):
one of the two or three best players every play basketball.
Like that's in no way of slight you want now
you know what's interesting as well as last year just
in the m v P stuff Cooper Cup, Like, there
are only three people that got votes last year for
the m v P A by the Associated Press, Rogers
who won it, Brady got some votes and Cooper Cup
got one. So if Tyreek Kill or Justin Jefferson are
(44:55):
on pace two, you know set the single season receiving mark.
I would be in seventeen games but still expected to
go where no receiver has gone before. Then you know
it's the question of them. How could they not be
considered I don't know how they they can have it?
I mean the Cooper Cup. I remember, the only reason
(45:17):
Aaron Donald was considered part of the m v P
discussion the Super Bowl was because of of Chris Collinsworth. Right,
Collinsworth is falling all over himself. But and aaronald Iss
a great player. He's got von Miller on the other side.
Whereas the last drive for the Rams to win the
Super Bowl, they only threw the Cooper Cup. That's it.
And he had two guys on him the whole time,
(45:38):
like he was open every time. He doesn't make any sense.
He's that good. He's legit, legit, that could Ramos. Where
are you? You picked the three best players in football?
Would they be quarterbacks? So would you go skill position? Guys?
I love Jefferson. I think that he is just awesome.
So I think he also has a Heisman moment right
(46:00):
catching that that that that catch? Yeah, yeah, so most definitely.
But I also have Tyreek Kale and he's he's like
you said, he's been awesome too. So both of those
guys to me, would be my top two picks. This
does Dan, This is actually kind of more up your
wheelhouse than the other. So who's the Heisman Trophy winner? Jick?
(46:21):
You want to talk about something with no buzz at all?
May could win it and nobody has watched him play. No. Uh,
Week one of the season maybe right, Like the Appalachian
State game is probably the one that we I mean,
it's really weird. What's happened to that award? Because that
award was everything? And they they have the Heisman Trophy house, right,
(46:43):
Like that's a great ad campaign. So past winners like man,
these are unbelievable names, but like, what do you what
do you do? Do you know who's leading the country
in passing yards? Without looking? Do you have any idea?
It's a it's a player at a Power five school
who transfer it in from another Power five school and
the previous school he was at the when he was
(47:04):
the starting quarterback there before he heard his before he
got hurt. They had the best season they've had in
years passing yards. I don't know who is it? Michael Pennox,
oh Washington crazy though, right yeah? I think I heard
it in the broadcast on Saturday. Should have known that
(47:24):
this is I think it comes down to if if
Ohio State does beat Michigan and C. J. Stroud as
a game, I think it's his. If Blake Coreham as
the game in that game very well could be his
for Michigan UM And if North Carolina beats climbs In in
in the a C C title game, that could really
help may I I find it interesting that Tennessee has
(47:44):
had this resurgence and that Hendon Hooker's kind of lost
some of his juice towards it. Like even in the
betting circles, may is second now with the best odds.
C J. Stroud is the has the best odds to
win the Heisman, but Hookers like third or fourth, and
they have will cayleb waves its thirty one touchdowns, two interceptions.
(48:04):
If you watch the only game which they really challenged,
the Oregon State game, he personally won the game. Okay,
he wanted to get They had a bush push thing.
He made a couple of throws, a couple of play
he won him the game. They play u c l A,
they play Notre Dame, and then they'll play organ in
the Pactole Championship game. Yeah, they're a bunch of different
scenarios that, yeah, I could play out, but yeah, you'd
(48:28):
have that opportunity. But thirty one touchdowns, two interceptions, I know,
and he's like nobody even, But part of it is
like nobody's talking about the award. It's the weirdest thing.
It used to be. Everything that that, by the way,
is part of what I think has happened with the
college football playoff is that's become everything in the sport,
(48:49):
everything and and and looking at it. And this is
from bet online. C J. Straud is the favorite. I
misspoke Handon Hooker a second at four to one at
least of their odds. Boake Korham and Drake Mayer tied
for third at six to one, and then you have
Caleb Williams seven to one. Then there's three other players,
Stetson Bennett, Max Dougan and uh the bo Nicks. By
(49:11):
the way, he spent Stetson Bennett, he was who they
played where he was was a Tennessee that he was
awesome against, Like he was awesome. He's been really really
good at times. But I would I would agree, you know.
The the other part um the other part, which is
really interesting is that I think Kennon Hooker one of
the things that's gonna hold him back is his age.
And he's twenty five years old. Like why is that
(49:34):
a part of the discussion the I said this about
and uh not in I was in donnin commit Sue
when he was at Nebraska. Like the award is given
to the best college football player. That's what's supposed to
be the best college role player that year was in
Dominican sue. It didn't matter. He I don't know if
you remember they played texts in the Big Tall Champions Game.
(49:54):
They literally had three guys on him every time they
staffed the football and he was still dominated the game.
He was amazing. So if Hannonooker is the best college
football player in the America, and I would agree with you,
you could in their big wins. He's been the biggest
reason why you know, um, I would. You can't hold
against him the fact that he's old. You just can't
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug gott
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a protection over ten recommended in Stellars tyrac dot com.
The way tire buying should be. Welcome into the boys,
j Stu. We got John Rominson, the Ones and twos
Man Dan buyers here as well. We've got a great
show for you. Um yeah, this this is not a
(01:03):
black and white show. Not a black and white show.
It's just not you know, it's I mean, this is
I have I believe I've identified the biggest problem in
how we cover sports. You ready for it? It's that
we become an all or nothing society. And I was
I was thinking about this, like, um, that extra step
(01:26):
that we take. Here's the example. I heard a topic
today on the TV shows. I guess, uh, Kevin Durant said, Hey,
Lebron James one of the two or three best ballplayers
of all time. And there are some that are like
that was a shot at Lebron, Like, okay, well, one
(01:47):
of the two or three best of the millions of
guys that ever play, of the thousands to play in
the NBA. And I think we know the three that
he's talking about, right, like if you had three? And
I would actually point out that if if there's a
bigger discussion that you know, people don't want to have this,
(02:07):
but I'm gonna have it. Dan Buyer, If I were
to say, if if Kevin Durants thinking of three ball
players greatest of all time and one includes Lebron James,
who would the other two be? I would I would
guess Michael Jordan would be one. That would be a
good guess. Um. And And I'm actually a little stumped
on it because I don't want to. I think the
(02:29):
most obvious answer is, in fact, the answer, Oh, okay,
I think it's do you think he's talking about himself?
I thought it was himself or I thought it was
Kobe for generational purposes, that honestly, that that's that's four
good ones, right, four good ones. And by the way,
if you threw in Matgic Johnson, Larry Bird, no one,
no one who has brain is actually going to argue
(02:51):
with you, right, So so it's not a slight. It's
actually incredible. It's not really an argument, like, of course, yeah,
he's one of the best ballplayers of all time. But like,
remember we didn't mention Wilt Chamberlain, we didn't mentioned Kareem
abdul Jamar. No, well, let's go to Hunter in the game.
He had fifty game and I wouldn't put him in
the top three of all the time. I wouldn't, you know.
(03:12):
But I didn't see him play. Like all my all
my wild stuff is based upon what my dad said
and things that I've read and seen, but I didn't
see my own eyes. I don't know, you know. So
the point is that that's not a slight, that's just
him going like, look, he's one of the two or
three best players of all time. That that's actually a
slightly Larry Bird because Larybird is not considered any of
those conversations, and when Larry Bird played, everyone considered him
(03:34):
part of any of those conversations. It's like we've forgotten
and honestly, Maggie Johnson should be in any of the
same list. Those two guys save the NBA, built the
NBA back to what it is now. And oh yeah,
by the way, they dominated the NBA for the better
part of a decade. One was brought down by injuries,
the other uh by HIV where he had to and
and he was aging anyway. But um, I think I
(03:58):
don't know how we got to a point where that's
a slight right, So I would use that as the
same thing I'm gonna talk about Philadelphia. I'm happy they lost.
I don't think I've never thought we've done our list
of top ten teams on the end of Bonus podcast.
There has not been a week where I've listed them
as the number one team, even though they have fewer
(04:18):
losses up until yesterday than anybody else in the league,
and and one of their wins is over another team
with one Here's what's funny about it. This is what's
amazing about it? The Eagles now have one loss? Right?
Who else has one? Who else has one loss in
the season? Minnesota? Right? So would Minnesota be an auto
(04:43):
number one to anybody who's ranking the league? The answer
is no, Why, there's only one answer or what's what's
what's the answer to that one? Well? They lost to
the Eagles. Kirk Cousins, Kirk Cusins, Kirk Kirk Cousins right,
Like Kirk Cousins is, he's the only and and here's
(05:03):
the crazy part. If you had to pick for an
NFL playoff game, who would rather have as your quarterback?
Jalen Hurts er Kirk Cousins and I. I think our
conversation might be more mixed. And again it's a nuanced
conversation because with the Eagles offense, you'd probably take Jalen
(05:26):
Hurts because they emphasize running. It's eleven all eleven football.
But generally, if you're like, who would you rather have
as quarterback? And you watch ask ask actual football people
there to go like Kirk Cousins, that's easy. He's actually
one road playoff games before. He's a far more accomplished pastor.
He's been the league. You know a lot longer, but
(05:46):
because you know, non prime time Kirk is a real thing.
No nobody would choose, no fan would choose Kirk Cousins.
So my point is that no one's gonna rank the
Vikings number one to day or if you said, hey,
the Vikings are a really good team, but I don't
truly believe in them. You know you're you're coding the
(06:07):
message and we know why. It's because of Kirk Cousins.
Keep in mind that yes, they lost the Eagles, they
smacked the they smacked the Packers, they beat the Dolphins
who were in first place, right um, and the same
commander's team that just that just beat the Eagles they
beat last week. But no one's gonna rank them. I
wouldn't rank them as one of the top three teams
(06:28):
in the NFL, even though they probably have the best
wide receiver. When Adam Theland's healthy, they got the best
They might have the best skilled position guys in the league. Right,
Dalvin Cook, Adam Theland and Justin Jefferson, tell me there's
a threesome that's better and at best you're getting to
a push. But because of Kirk Cousins. So look, I've
never bought into the Eagles as being some dominant team.
(06:49):
I think they have a really good roster. I think
they've been smart. Right, You've got a young quarterback who
doesn't make any money, so you can spread that money out.
You probably overpaid a J. Brown, but that's fine. You
can over pay a wide receiver when you're not paying
your quarterback anything. When you're not paying your running backs anything.
You know they've actually spent pretty wisely. The questionable spending
(07:10):
would be if they re up with Jalen Hurts for
gigantic money and now he's not nearly as good because
he can't surround him with the players. But what happened
last night, it was just the exposure of the Eagles.
They're good, but kind of like how the Ravens play,
and when you run that style of offense and you
get behind, it gets more difficult. When he's forced to throw,
(07:31):
it gets more difficult. There's just some throws that he
doesn't make. That's why he was viewed as he's viewed.
That's why they couldn't do anything in the playoffs. And
the second time around or the more tape there is
on what they're doing, this is par for every course
of all of this, it's why many people want the
Ravens to evolve offensively. I don't think they should because
I think Lamar is better at what he does similar
(07:54):
offense whatever, than anyone who's ever done it. And even
if it has its drawbacks, it at worst shortens the
game and then you gotta win with your defense. Now,
maybe their defense isn't good enough anymore, but that last
night was that this is what the Eagles are. They're
really good. And when they dominated that second quarter and
half a leaded at halftime and run the football and
pin their ears back and get after your passer, they
(08:16):
got beat by backup quarterback. They got beat by Washington
team at home who didn't have their best player, Chase Young,
not yet clear to play in games. That's what they
got beat by. They played a really soft schedule. They
did beat the Vikings, right, and they did beat the Cowboys,
but the Cowboys had Cooper Rush. So I you know,
(08:37):
I don't think there's that much discernible difference between the
Eagles and all the other top teams in the league,
and the difference to the Eagles in the top teams
the league when they get to the playoffs, is Jil
Hurts is in his second year as a full time starter.
He has some limitations as a thrower. Um, he's a
great runner. He does all checks, all the boxes off
the football field of what you need. This is not
(08:58):
a this this is a angeble thing, not an intangible thing.
Here's Nick Sirianni on the loss. Whether the calls were
bad or whether the calls were good or whatever it was.
I think when you play the way we did tonight,
and when you play the way we did on all
three phases offense, defense, special teams, coaching, when you play
(09:20):
like that, it seems like everything's going against you. You
create your own luck. And we played like crap. Those plays,
those those scenarios that happen when you play like that
get magnified, right, the what if it whether it was
the right call or wrong call, And so we made
our own luck today and uh, and we and it
was bad. I completely agree. And by the way, that's
(09:40):
a super super super super mature way of discussing as
a coach, right, And he threw himself in there. Hey,
the coaching was bad. Their special teams is an issue.
It's gonna be an issue for them. And yeah, Taylor
Heineke giving himself up and still getting hit, and others
like we had his other knee up, like Duty gave
himself up. You know the rules. You don't have to
(10:02):
like the rules. That's roy. You give yourself up, you
can't hit them. It was a really, really dumb play.
If you don't like the call, that's fine. That's the rule.
Everybody knows the rule. It's just a case of you're
probably going too fast and you misjudge that he go down,
is you're standing up, Holy crap, I screwed up. Happens,
It happens. This is Jalen Hurts talking about how the
(10:24):
team will respond to loss. Idea about that. You know,
I think in reality, I think I'm in the end.
It's about us doing the things that we can um
and controling the things that we can. And I think
tonight we we weren't. We weren't doing that at a
hot level, you know, and today a goddess. It doesn't
get you until it gets you, and today of goddess.
So we learned from it. We moved forward fair enough.
(10:46):
You know. We also do this thing. We do it
in basketball, like Grambling beat Colorado, and the stories about
Man Colorado. What a joke? Right, Um? You see Irvine
beat Organ Like, well you see your color Oregan pack
twelve sucks, right, and we see it, you know throughout
the kind of landscape of college basket, especially the time
here because you're playing these no names, lesser name schools.
(11:07):
You know, we don't do we don't talk about those
schools that actually pulled off the upset. We don't talk
about Taylor Heineke. Like, how incredible story is this for
Taylor Heineke. You know, I mean everybody by now knows
he was enrolled at Old Dominion and they talked him
out of it and got him to coming play more football.
And he actually played well against the Buccaneers the year
(11:28):
the Buccaneers won the Super al Right, he actually that
was a that was a close, close game, and he
did some really good things. And he's as well as
he can handle it. He's handled the Carson Wentz thing
really well. And he goes in there and beats the
the Eagles when they're undefeated at home on Monday night football.
(11:50):
Here's Taylor Heineke after the game. Not at all. Um,
you know I said it back in O t s.
You know, we we brought Carson in to be the starter,
and if if my number was called, I'll be ready
to go in. So, you know, whatever decision they want
to make, um, let's go. You know, if if I'm
backing up Carson next week, great, I'm help him anyway
I can to get ready for that Texans game. So
the biggest thing for me, let's let's just go win.
(12:10):
Let's keep winning, whether me planning or not. Uh, this
is a really simple one in terms of what you do.
You absolutely start Carson Wentz if he's healthy, and you
can always bring Taylor Henek in if he's if it's
not going well, especially against the Texans. Right, Like, dude, Carson,
you can't be the Texans. You shouldn't be doing this.
But more than anything, Taylor Heinek you can bring it
off the bench. He only makes like two million dollars
(12:32):
a year. Whereas the mentality of if Carson Wentz is
that guy, right, Carson Wentz becomes that guy who's coming
off the bench once he's benched for Taylor Heineke. I
don't think mentally there's there's recovering from it. I just
don't buyer. You agree with that that sentiment that you
you start Carson as soon as he's healthy, knowing you
(12:53):
can always bring Taylor Henik in. Or do you go
with the quote unquote hoth Hand. I go with the
hot Hand. Okay, they're five and five right now. Oh
they're gonna get Chase Young back to Yeah, they have
the Texans this week. So but don't you think you again,
(13:15):
My belief is if Carson is healthy, you start him
because like, look that you can you can do well
against Texans and you can always bring Hanky enough. I
think that that's that's one way of thinking about it.
But I just go back to hot Hand, and I
feel that, like, like Heineke brings a different energy. I
mean totally we see it on TV. I can't imagine
(13:36):
what it's like in the locker room and and with
those players, and so yeah, I just they're starting to
get stuff going. And Heineke is not perfect. There were
some thrills last night that were but um, there is
a little it factor with him. I would I would
agree there's an energy. We like this guy, we want
(13:57):
to play for this guy. What would you do? JAS two?
Is there something in between here? Guys? Is there a um?
Is there a you know, Carson needs an extra week
to do this and then uh, and then play him
this week? Or is this kind of one of those
things where if he's officially cleared, there's there's no doing that.
I just it's the Texans. If if if a guy
who if we were all honest about Carson Wentz and
(14:20):
what he appears to have lost, confidence is the thing, right,
And I mean I don't know, I can't set you
up for a better game to come back. Then then
then the Texans that that would that would be my
my my pushback. But yeah, I mean like look if
you if you could hold them out and they play
the Lions the following week, right, like you gotta find
(14:41):
somebody somewhere. They play the Texans, then the Falcons. The
Falcons aren't great either, so he's got two games to
get his game together. And then they have that weird
scheduling quirk that somebody else had earlier year where they
play the Giants bye week. Then the Giants, Falcons and
Panthers just played twice in eleven days. Yeah, that's the
(15:04):
other's the other, that's the other team that This is
the weirdest scheduling quirk I've ever seen where you literally
play the Giants in back to back games with a
week off in between. That's weird. That's really weird. It's
weird too because that their division games, that these are happening,
because I know that they saved them for the end
of the year, for the final week where you're going
(15:26):
to have at least one division game. I would think
that you could spread the five others out enough, one
would think. But there's some sort of a lot of
it probably comes down to how they wanted to get
tom on TV right late in the year for that
team and what they did with Tampa that I mean,
the priority prioritize. Now, the Giants are usually a TV priority,
although they've been bad, so maybe it's these are bad
(15:47):
teams that's why they're doing it. I don't know, but
Washington and the Giants is a big draw, that's a
big TV and one of them is a night game
right when I think a Sunday night game as of now,
unless I don't think it'll get flexed out. This is
the best of the dun Got Leap Show on Fox
Sports Radio, broadcasting live from the studios of Fox Sports Radio.
(16:19):
Here's Doug Godlieb I feel like I feel like we
should do like ballad Tuesdays or something something. I didn't
the words not come out right the watch ry, but
I guess that's why they say it bruse as its thone,
(16:44):
just like no, you guys got your they don't lighters anymore.
When there's lighters and now you do the phone right.
Charles Robinson is on hold Yahoo Sports senior NFL reporter
(17:06):
has got you pod to win the game. He's probably
in They're going like, what did I walk into? Why
are they playing old Morton crue? We were talking rock
ballads earlier in the show. Do you have a favorite
rock ballad you would like to you'd like to throw
the hat and throw into the hat? What was the uh?
I should know this because it's my era. What's the
Guns and Roses song that's like twenty four minutes long
(17:28):
with the remember November? That was the November? It was
like the impetus of this whole discussion. Great job, job,
let's go on, right, I think, So what do we
learn do we What do we learned about the Eagles
last night? Um? I mean I don't. Here's the thing
(17:50):
I wouldn't. Every Rose has a store that that we're listening.
Come on, I mean, they were gonna be is this
was gonna be am no team, right And and I think,
if anything, I think the Eagles are capable of I
think they've advanced to the point where they're capable of
taking an opponent lightly. Honestly. That's how I felt when
I watched that game. And and I'm surprised that no one.
(18:15):
I think Jalen Hurts calls his number a lot. I
think it's interesting. Um, I think he has a lot
of control of that offense. And I think if you
go back and you watch that that game, you will
see scenarios where the offense is geared for Jalen Hurts
to make make decisions. And he calls his number a lot,
both running and throwing the football. And I I'm fine
with that, But you know, there's gonna be some criticism
(18:36):
to come on on the other side of it. They're
gonna need a run game at some point, and it
can't all come from him, and he's going to have
to incorporate, you know, the tools around him more than
I think he did last night. Well, I would, I
would tell you that when he was at Oklahoma, Okay,
people at Oklahoma, they said, like, and he was only
there for a year, so it was a little it
was a little weird, right, but they said like, yeah,
(18:59):
he's little bit, he's a lot more about him then
he lets on because he's so good the press conferences
and he's so good on the social media, he's a
little bit more about him. And in an effort to
protect him, because they didn't he not a progression read
guy was they started more design runs more and more
design runs as the season went on, and then they
just kind of told him like, look, if you don't
(19:20):
like your first read run it, and uh that that
was that was their feeling towards him. I just think
that the that when you get to the people have
the book on your run game, they're gonna make you
throw from the pocket. And he's still just not great
at it. He's okay, he's you know, he really experienced,
but he's not. That's not what he does best. And
(19:40):
I just thought that someone's limitations and it wasn't all him,
Like there was turnovers as well that weren't his fault.
But I think some of that Reard's head last night. Yeah,
And I want to be fair too, I mean it
wasn't like I mean, here in the wall six times.
I just think it was early on. You're sort of
watching that game and you're like, okay, well it was.
I think it was pretty late in the person. I'm like,
when is Miles Sanders hurt? Like I literally asking myself,
(20:03):
I'm like, did I miss something? Um and another thing
to look they did. I thought Washington did a really
good job of bracketing A J. Brown And they're like,
all right, if we take the sky away, which is
a heavy hitter, let's see, you know how he adjusts.
And you know DeVonta Smith, obviously he did his numbers.
But they're not gonna win a lot of games. Well,
(20:24):
I don't want to say that, they're going to be
somewhat fallible. If Quas Watkins is your guy, If that's
your guy, and and that's what teams are probably gonna
look at this and they're gonna say, okay, takeaways number
one and let's see if he can beat us having
to throw the Quas Watkins having to throw at Davanta Smith,
who's you know, good player. But again, neither of those
(20:45):
guys is remotely near the level of of A. J.
Brown At first point um, and and see if Hurts
shifts more toward taking the burden of offense on himself
in terms of like calling his number with runs and um,
if he can be accurate from the pocket. Again. When
it ended, I said to myself, don't don't get warped
over this game, like there there were a team that
(21:06):
wasn't going to to finish seventeen and oh the final
score made the score look even worse than it really was.
This was a you know, it wasn't the thirty two
point you performance by the Washington Commanders. But um, yeah,
I'm just I'm trying not to read too much into this.
It's still I still think the Eagles are one of
the two best teams of football right now. Okay, I'll
(21:26):
put I'll put three. I'll still put Buffalo in that.
Why you wouldn't include Buffalo? And then I think, but
it's yeah, I think that. If you want to say,
I think, I would put I think Kansas City is
the best team in the NFL. I think Patrick Mahomes
m v p Um. I would put Philly two and
I put Buffalo three. The thing about Buffalo is it's
(21:46):
interesting because they're dealing kind of with their own situation
with Josh Allen, who the stat that's gotten repeated most
now is the four interceptions in the red zone the
last two games. But it's this mentality thing that he
still hasn't worked out of out of I think his game,
which is pushing every single time. You know, it's all gas,
no breaks, touchdown every time you go down there, you
(22:07):
get into the red zone. There's an economy of kind
of playing a little more conservatively, especially when momentum is
going your way, and you know he's prone to sometimes
making mistakes of over aggression. I think because he's got
the army does um. You and I have seen football
for a lot of decades, right, reminds me. You'd see
(22:28):
Elway do this, You'd see Brett Farve do this. You'd
see every guy with a cannon would have a mentality
of I can do it like I can do it.
They have a cape mentality. And he's got that, yeah,
which is you don't want to take that away from him,
but you want to find a way to temper it, right,
You want to find a way to to to to
temper it. Um. Okay, So I when Jeff Saturday got
(22:50):
named head coach, a text. I have three g ms
that that get back to me pretty quickly. All of
them said shocked. One of them who had spent time
and in he was like shocked. But if there's a
guy who could do it and a place he could
do it, indies the place because he knows that place
like the back of his hand, and all of all
(23:11):
analysts are not to create this. I had Tjans out
on last hour, were like, some guys show up and
just talk football and go home and do their thing.
Some people are all about it, right, everybody's different. He's
all about it. Like I didn't think it was crazy,
especially considering Nathaniel Hackett has been trained for this his
whole life, right, Like this is his whole life has
been built up and he's not any good at it.
(23:33):
So the idea you have to come through a system
of learning to be a coach. All right, Now we've
seen him for a week. What are people in the
NFL saying? Look, I don't think I think there is
room even in the NFL. And I'm not saying this
is the situation. But if you ask me, could steep
her ever happened? Now we know? You know Steve Kerr
(23:53):
was a GM and everything, but you know, or even
you know, I thought Steve Nash, you know, had you know,
clearly got banged. It wasn't like it was just an
absolute catastrophe. It wasn't you know, it's not morning morning
weeg with the Lions. Kind of a situation. Is the
room in the NFL for a guy to come in
and actually succeeded this. Yeah, I mean, I think law
(24:14):
of averages if it you know, it's been sixty years
since somebody tried this, there's a chance that somebody could
try it and have it be successful. I think what
people have to get used to is he you know,
could he be a coach CEO? And what I mean
by that is is he someone And I actually think
they tried to say this in the press conference, even
though I thought it was a loopie press conference. Um,
(24:35):
you know, I'm trying to bring this guy in to
really install like kind of a mentality and a culture
and in a way, and he wasn't saying be a cheerleader,
but there's an element of being a cheerleader of trying
to Um, I guess changed the vibe in the building.
And you're right, everybody knows Jeff Saturday. He's been around
that that team in some respects, whether it was as
(24:57):
an as an analyst, he has been a voice in
the market for a long time. Um he was there
in training camp on a few occasions. Clearly he was
a consultant for not only arth Say, but other people
in the building for quite a while. So it's not
like it's just a complete and total disconnected guy. I
still think, even though you know he wins one game,
(25:19):
I don't know whether or not this is still to
still be a disaster. I the one thing he did
during the week that I thought was interesting. So Tuesday
he wakes up, he hasn't known his offensive play caller
is going to be his news quarterback is going to
be Um. He's still gotta, you know, talk to the players.
He's he's still dealing with coaches who know they were
bypassed for him. He did the one thing that I
(25:40):
thought was going to be the most effective decision, and
that was to tell er say, I know you bench
Matt Ryan, We're gonna go ahead and reverse that. He's
got to be out on the field. He knows his
offense better than anybody else who's now in the building.
Because everybody else has been fired. We need to have
him on the field. If you want me to be
your coach, I need to win games. This is the
only way we're gonna do it is we put them
(26:00):
back in because Sam Alan Gerr is not going to
do it. I agree, And and part of again, the
biggest part about being a head coach is not calling
the play on third down, Right, The biggest part is
you're managing people and you have to not just manage down,
You've got to manage up as well. So you have
to orsay has to respect you. You have to have
(26:22):
a working Hey, man, I can't do this unless I'm
allowed to do, Like, what's the point of me coming
out of ESPN putting myself And if you don't let
me pick my own quarterback, pick my own play called,
let me, let me do my own thing. And so
the problem with the discussion we're having is it has nuance,
and there just doesn't appear to be any time or
desire for most people in our profession to to actually
(26:45):
discuss the nuance. Right that that's that That's that's my
biggest issue with it. But I would say this, there
is an element of fairness that as you said you
talked to GM sewart Shot. I was in the same
scenari everybody I talked to you. So people didn't even
believe it. They were just like, is this real? Like
is this really actually happening? It's within the own, you know,
(27:05):
within the profession. It was. It was stunning, you know,
and for coaches that was infuriating because all those individuals
that were still there. You build up your resume, you
you know, you bond with the players, you're there sent
training camp and your thought processes. I've put in all
this hard work so that if something takes a left
turn I could potentially have the opportunity to step in
(27:27):
front of these guys and say, hey, I've been here
with you. I put in the work with you, you know,
So I I get I still think the criticism, I
truly do. I believe the criticism is valid. Now, two
things can be true. The criticism can be valid and
he could succeed. Okay, they can both be true. Um,
it's it's I think there's space for both. Ultimately, he's
(27:47):
got his opportunity if he wins out, you know, if
he wants out, let's say he you know, let's say
even loses a couple of games, two games, whatever. If
he really seems to turn it around, what are we
gonna say, you know, okay, or so it took a show. Now,
you know, he's got to figure out how to satisfy
the Rooney role, which he dug that hole for himself.
It is what it is. People may not like it,
(28:08):
but he knew what he was getting into when he
did this. And you know, he moves forward with Jeff Saturday,
and you have to hope that in and beyond it
continues to to pay dividends because at any point this
comes up short. Everybody who sat there and said, yeah,
this was a complete sham and it's a ridicul you know,
it's an embarrassment. I mean we heard Bill Cower, Hall
of Fame coach ripping it to shreds Joe Thomas, you know,
(28:30):
first ballot Hall of Fame left tackles ripping it to shot.
I mean it was and to me, that was emblematic
of everybody. There wasn't anybody I heard in the NFL
that wasn't piste off about this. And I know run
long here, but I will give you one example though.
When John Lynch got the job in San Francisco, multitude
of personnel, people who I knew, who were beside themselves,
piste off that John Lynch could walk into a general
(28:53):
manager job like that. Now years later, if you talk
to those people, they begrudgingly have to mint he was
the right fit for what Kyle's personality was, and like
you said, manage up, managed down, got to work with people.
He was the right fit for that situation and it
has worked because he was who he was. So it
was the right judgment call. But at the time it
(29:15):
did look terrible, very much like that that that's actually
a great amount. That's a really really good analogy. Um okay,
so let let's let's get a couple other things in
the league here. Packers they finally kind of cracked that
code on Hey, we're a running team. We got Aaron
Jones run the hell out of football, and then Christian
(29:35):
Watson after he had a couple of drops early the game,
and Aaron Rodgers still still through it to him may
because he had to. Um right, is it a is
it an outlier game or is it the beginning of
the Packers figuring it out? Well? I will say this, Um,
(29:56):
I have little doubt that the Dallas Cowboys were repped
on Christian Watson. What's gonna be interesting is let's see
what Tennessee does, right, because now they know. And the
thing about Watson was if you watch the Packers when
I mean he's hurt all season long, right in and out,
in and out. But when you watched him, including that
first game where he drops, you just horrible drop touchdown
(30:17):
you know bomb from Rogers, he was always running. He
is crazy fast, like he just runs by guys, he
just get catch. And even against the Cowboys, like you said,
he had three horrible drops. And the thing is, though,
and I would I would kind of say this about
like justin fields. You watch him play a game like that,
(30:38):
he catches a couple. You saw his reaction. I'm sure
it was a monumental relief to him. And maybe he
catches finally catches that groove of confidence, right Like you're like,
remember when Jamar Chase was dropping stuff in the preseason
where like, oh my god is and then that first
game comes out he lights it up. You're like, yeah,
he's good, like you're good. Like he's said he's he
knows he can do this. The question is does Watson
(30:59):
now go, okay, man, I got this, and and also
does Aaron Rodgers go, you know what it's worth it
even if it's a shot. He's running past. First it
was one defender, then it's two. I mean the cowboys
were throwing two guys on him, and he was just
straight up out running him. It wasn't like a stop
and go from Davante Adams where it just you know,
he jukes the guy out of his cleats. He was
just straight up speed and you know so I think
(31:24):
what really we got to figure out is let's see
what the Titans do, because they're gonna be ready for that.
They know. They're like, okay, we saw it's on film.
This guy can you know, straight up run past you.
How do we stop this? And then we got to
see whether or not Watson himself can adjust to it
and continue to catch at least, you know, some meaningful
balls that keep you know, keeps Roger's face in it.
If it If that is real, I will say this
(31:45):
it's an element they have not had and it can
be pretty transformative. Um, Davante Adams and the Raiders are
a mess. Now. Mark Davis came out and gave him
the vote of confidence. And you know, again, same people
that I texted about Saturday had told me a long
time ago, like McDaniels likely learned from Denver stuff. Good
(32:06):
football guy. They'll be fine. But my what helped me
back to start the season was he had so much
change in the organization, right, so much, I mean, and
from the non football side, that whole front office has changed,
the football side, president, GM, head, coach, players, everybody, everything's
changed out like that. That does not consistency and continuity
(32:27):
is what kind of wins the day. But does Josh
McDaniels see year two in Vegas? Yes, he does, he will.
He will see year two. And I and I think
even even if there weren't other reasons in the building,
and I'll give you those reasons in a second, even
if there were another reasons in the building. Mark Davis
cash poor, we all know it. Okay, he just settled
with John Gruden. He's not gonna pay Josh McDaniels and
(32:49):
then pay another coach on top of it to come
in there, and potentially who knows, maybe that guy doesn't
you know, like the fact that they spent what they
spent on Davante Adams, I mean, he's committed to this calculus,
which is why Mark Davis comes out and says, the
guys played nine games, okay, Like the vote of confidence
is when I hired him. Mark Davis knows he's my coache.
I think he kind of wanted to nip in the butt.
(33:09):
So context of what's going on there before Derek Carr
gets to the podium and he's you know, crying and
emotional before Donte Adams says what he says. Apparently after
the game ended, they go in the locker room and
there were some guys who just didn't take the loss
to that hard, you know, and I don't. I mean,
they just weren't. The phrase that was used to me
(33:30):
which I can't stay on the radio, I mean basically
was just um, they weren't taking it very hard. It
wasn't not I want, I don't want to put it
on the level of like Moneyball, where they had like
Jason Giambie like dancing and then you know Brad Pitt,
you know, Bashion in a boom box. But like, there
were clearly some guys that were not as disturbed and
that royally Piste off Car and Adams basically they were
(33:50):
like you all need to be crushed. Okay, we're here
to do this. This was an embarrassing loss that tought
me to feel like we feel and if you don't,
you're not on the same page. So that's kind of
what happened when they came out and they said, you know,
they basically alluded to the locker room, like, hey, there's
some people that they've got to be on the same
page here. When when I talked to someone there, what
(34:12):
I was like, the feeling that not feeling. I mean,
it's straight up to it. Like, look, if when I
went through there in July, if I had said to
Josh McDaniels, Dave's eagler to g M if I had said, hey,
guess what, Hunter Renfrow not gonna have him, Um, Darren
wall was not really going to have him, they would
have said our offensive screwed, Like the offensive line isn't
good anyway, Like we've already got problems there. We can't
(34:33):
lose two of our top three pass catchers and we're
already looking to try and find a third wide receiver
to pair with Hunter Renfro and DAVONTEE. Adams. If you're
gonna take away Waller and Renfro, What are we doing?
Like who he's throwing too? And if the offensive line
is not protecting, it means we can't let routes develop,
which means we're not going to throw the ball down
the field a lot. It's you know it. It compounds things.
(34:55):
And I think defensively, you know Chandler Jones and he's
I don't know what happened. I have no clue why
a player would go off the cliff that quickly. But
I think Chandler Jones is not like a system function.
I think he's fallen off significantly and I don't think
that's something that they expected. And that's also something they're
grappling with. So who's going to be on the sharp
(35:17):
end of the stick here. I think they'll blame the
defensive coordinator. And I think there's a chance that they
may look at Derek Carr and say, well, we got
a shot at the top, you know, drafted quarterback. Let's
see if anybody's interested in Derek Carr. And if they
do that, there's gonna be interesting. There's gonna be teams
that will we'll line up to trade for Derek Carr.
And it's like a five point six million dollar dead cap,
so it's totally possible. Derek Carcass trade Charles Robinson the
(35:39):
podcast called you Pod to Win the Game. God is
working who Sports completely connected and tight into everything that
goes on the Nation Football League. Charles. I can't tell
how much I appreciate you joining us. Absolute thanks for
let me dog Fox Sports Radio has the best sports
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(36:05):
show Fox Sports Radio. Hope you're doing well, enjoying the fall,
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The way tire buying should be so buyer if you
(36:27):
you'd indulge me in. Guys, you want to hop in
on this like this is the conversation. We do this
all the time. Like Aaron Rodgers not having a great year.
They're not throwing the ball that much. Tom Brady is not.
Pat Mahomes is okay, is having a very very good year,
but there have been games in which he's made some
bad plays, like we could put some some things on him. Uh.
They also don't run the football, so the numbers are
gonna be skewed as such. But I guess, I guess
(36:49):
the question becomes, like we always do this, where does
the MVP had to be the quarterback? Like, well, the
quarterbacks the quarterback of the team. And if that's so,
then then Kirk Cousins should be, you know, front and center,
right if wins and losses are a quarterback stat, which
on some levels they are. Um, why why is it
the case that Kirk Cousins doesn't get well because he
(37:09):
hasn't played well and big games previously at night? Like, okay,
that's that's fair. Um, In terms of affecting winning as
a player, I don't know. Mike Michael Parsons to me
is the best player in football in the NFL. I
also think that, if we're also gonna be honest, um,
the Aaron Donald contract is gonna be a bad one.
(37:31):
It's gonna be a bad one. I know he's still
really good, but his level of desire, maybe his level
of of athleticism at some point it's gonna wane if
it hasn't already. And I know you're like, well, last
year they had Bond Miller alongside him, Like okay, but
we can't afford to pay more. Guys were paying him
top dollar, paying Stafford top dollar paying you know, they
redid Cooper Cup. They read everybody's contract and at some
(37:53):
and you have no draft picks. Here's the part about
the Rams that like no one's talking about, right, the
Rams lose Cooper up today, probably for the season, right,
And um, if you the way in which you build
a football team and it's like old Rams f them
draft picks whatever, like that's great. You can do that
(38:17):
if you have a bunch of guys on a reasonable contract.
If you have top of the market contracts for Aaron
Donald who is at the back end of his career,
for Cooper Cup who didn't take the top of the
market money but still plenty of money. For Matt Stafford,
who not top of the market, but right there in
the discussion, like you start to get those guys and
then you're like, okay, well you how what do you
(38:38):
fill out the rest of the roster with you fail
out the rest of the rust everybody else fills out
the rest of the roster with draft picks. They don't
have the draft picks, and then the draft picks you do,
have you got a hit when it's a volume play. Yes,
the Seahawks were great in the draft this past year.
Dan Buyer can go through year after year of all
(38:58):
the misses they've had trying to crack the code. It
ain't for lack of trying. But anyway, I digress to me,
Michael Parsons, Buyer makes a great point. Like Tyreek Hill,
he has what's called in basketball they call gravity. I
don't know if they call gravity in the NFL. They should,
(39:19):
And it's the idea you got whoever's checking him, and
then everybody else You see Tyree Hill and you're like,
it gets your attention and it opens up everything else
for everybody. And the point that I think he's making
and why the two of her m VP becomes almost laughable,
is if you take Tyreek Hill off that team two
is probably gonna get replaced as a quarterback. But because
(39:41):
of Jim and Waddle to a tong of volo, but
mostly Tyreek Hill, it's it's it makes it look easy
for a guy who arms strength wise, there can be
a struggle. You know, I've we've done this show. I've
been on your show for about five and a half years,
(40:02):
and I think I've said it about ten times. And
and so I hope you remember John remembers and Jason
as well. I've always loved Tyreek hills receiving ability, his
skills as a receiver, and those are like finally popping
up right now. And you want to talk about the constant,
Like the Dolphins have a bunch of pieces now to
put something together. But how many of us thought that
(40:24):
Tyreek Hill? You know, I want to why would you
want out of Kansas City? You know, like, who would ever?
Why would you want? You're gonna win, You're gonna do,
you know, do your own thing. You just you wanted
out because you wanted a new contract, and Cheese are
gonna give it to us. L you know, see you later.
But to see what he hasn't missed a beat, you know,
I mean, like, hasn't missed a step whatsoever. So it's
(40:46):
it's what's the constant? And that's to to me is
I don't know what the Dolphins would have looked like
without Tyreek Hill? But I know what they look like
with him, and it may not be what Kansas City was,
but it's darn closed and it's darn impressive. Yeah, he's
he's got that Steve Smith thing, right, only he's got
(41:06):
world class speed. And by Steve Smith, usually the wide
receivers that we've come to love as the best in
the league. And Stefan dig is another guy who's not big,
great route runner, unbelievably explosive speed. Right. Usually we think
you've gotta be bigger to go and make plays, and
this guy is a dynamic route runner. He's tougher than hell. Right,
(41:28):
you had great hits and then you throw in world
class speed and agility I had. I had the scouts
tell me. The first time anybody saw him play was
when Oklahoma State opened the season Jerry's World against Florida State,
and most of the scouts were like expecting, like, you
go to see Florida State because the speed they have
outside the numbers. And when they went, they met with
(41:50):
the Oklahoma State guys, they saw him practice a little bit.
They're like, this is the fastest guy we've ever recruited,
We've ever seen, We've never seen anything like it, anything
like it, and that was their takeaway, like, I've never
seen anything like the speed that he had. I've never
seen anything like it, and he's so fast and explosive.
You sometimes you lose track of the fact that he's
a really good wide receiver and you make a great point,
(42:13):
and I think he's actually a pretty good blocker as well.
I'm like a ton, you know, but he's actually a
pretty good blocker. Chase too. If I was gonna ask
you your m v P S if you made it,
the best player who had actually been the league. So
the best all around player in the league that affects
winning is Patrick Mahomes. Now that is not interesting. It's
(42:37):
not a new angle. It's not I think he's I
think Mahomes is the tops odds right now for m
v P UM. But for the reasons you guys just
kind of laid out. The more you talked about Tyreek
Hill and how good he is, the more I thought,
wait a minute, Mahomes hasn't missed a beat without Tyreek Hill.
So that's that's my answer. There is that wrong? No,
(43:04):
what do you think to say that last part? Sorry,
I got a phone call in the studio. No, it
was just as you guys were talking about tyreek Hill.
The other side of that coin for me was you
take tyreek Hill off the Chiefs and Mahomes is still
playing at a caliber of level where I think he's
the top um in the odds right now for to
(43:24):
win the m v P. So that that was my answer.
Patrick Mahomes, I have no problem with that. I think
Doug you had him one in the rankings. You had
Mahomes is the m v P. And I know I
reigned on Mahomes parade or the Chiefs parade November Ranner, uh,
following that win against the Titans um where by the way,
Mahomes was, you know, otherworldly with his arm and his legs.
(43:48):
But yeah, I mean it's you talk about constants. What's
the constant constant in Kansas City? They keep moving, Patrick Mahomes,
Tyreek Hill continues, his production has lifted it up, like yeah,
pretty impressive. I mean, I I wouldn't take any Mahomes
would obviously be in my top two or three as well.
(44:12):
If I'm going to Kevin Durant this ye, by the way,
does anybody does anybody really offended by by what Kevin
durandt said about lebron James in the altime. I just
feel like it's such fake outrage. I mean it's the problem,
like just everybody just falls out of stuff kissing le
Bronze ass so much. It's just like, oh my goodness,
(44:32):
one of the two or three best players every play basketball.
Like that's in no way of slight you want now
you know what's interesting as well as last year just
in the m v P stuff Cooper Cup, Like, there
are only three people that got votes last year for
the m v P A by the Associated Press, Rogers
who won it, Brady got some votes and Cooper Cup
got one. So if Tyreek Kill or Justin Jefferson are
(44:55):
on pace two, you know set the single season receiving mark.
I would be in seventeen games but still expected to
go where no receiver has gone before. Then you know
it's the question of them. How could they not be
considered I don't know how they they can have it?
I mean the Cooper Cup. I remember, the only reason
(45:17):
Aaron Donald was considered part of the m v P
discussion the Super Bowl was because of of Chris Collinsworth. Right,
Collinsworth is falling all over himself. But and aaronald Iss
a great player. He's got von Miller on the other side.
Whereas the last drive for the Rams to win the
Super Bowl, they only threw the Cooper Cup. That's it.
And he had two guys on him the whole time,
(45:38):
like he was open every time. He doesn't make any sense.
He's that good. He's legit, legit, that could Ramos. Where
are you? You picked the three best players in football?
Would they be quarterbacks? So would you go skill position? Guys?
I love Jefferson. I think that he is just awesome.
So I think he also has a Heisman moment right
(46:00):
catching that that that that catch? Yeah, yeah, so most definitely.
But I also have Tyreek Kale and he's he's like
you said, he's been awesome too. So both of those
guys to me, would be my top two picks. This
does Dan, This is actually kind of more up your
wheelhouse than the other. So who's the Heisman Trophy winner? Jick?
(46:21):
You want to talk about something with no buzz at all?
May could win it and nobody has watched him play. No. Uh,
Week one of the season maybe right, Like the Appalachian
State game is probably the one that we I mean,
it's really weird. What's happened to that award? Because that
award was everything? And they they have the Heisman Trophy house, right,
(46:43):
Like that's a great ad campaign. So past winners like man,
these are unbelievable names, but like, what do you what
do you do? Do you know who's leading the country
in passing yards? Without looking? Do you have any idea?
It's a it's a player at a Power five school
who transfer it in from another Power five school and
the previous school he was at the when he was
(47:04):
the starting quarterback there before he heard his before he
got hurt. They had the best season they've had in
years passing yards. I don't know who is it? Michael Pennox,
oh Washington crazy though, right yeah? I think I heard
it in the broadcast on Saturday. Should have known that
(47:24):
this is I think it comes down to if if
Ohio State does beat Michigan and C. J. Stroud as
a game, I think it's his. If Blake Coreham as
the game in that game very well could be his
for Michigan UM And if North Carolina beats climbs In in
in the a C C title game, that could really
help may I I find it interesting that Tennessee has
(47:44):
had this resurgence and that Hendon Hooker's kind of lost
some of his juice towards it. Like even in the
betting circles, may is second now with the best odds.
C J. Stroud is the has the best odds to
win the Heisman, but Hookers like third or fourth, and
they have will cayleb waves its thirty one touchdowns, two interceptions.
(48:04):
If you watch the only game which they really challenged,
the Oregon State game, he personally won the game. Okay,
he wanted to get They had a bush push thing.
He made a couple of throws, a couple of play
he won him the game. They play u c l A,
they play Notre Dame, and then they'll play organ in
the Pactole Championship game. Yeah, they're a bunch of different
scenarios that, yeah, I could play out, but yeah, you'd
(48:28):
have that opportunity. But thirty one touchdowns, two interceptions, I know,
and he's like nobody even, But part of it is
like nobody's talking about the award. It's the weirdest thing.
It used to be. Everything that that, by the way,
is part of what I think has happened with the
college football playoff is that's become everything in the sport,
(48:49):
everything and and and looking at it. And this is
from bet online. C J. Straud is the favorite. I
misspoke Handon Hooker a second at four to one at
least of their odds. Boake Korham and Drake Mayer tied
for third at six to one, and then you have
Caleb Williams seven to one. Then there's three other players,
Stetson Bennett, Max Dougan and uh the bo Nicks. By
(49:11):
the way, he spent Stetson Bennett, he was who they
played where he was was a Tennessee that he was
awesome against, Like he was awesome. He's been really really
good at times. But I would I would agree, you know.
The the other part um the other part, which is
really interesting is that I think Kennon Hooker one of
the things that's gonna hold him back is his age.
And he's twenty five years old. Like why is that
(49:34):
a part of the discussion the I said this about
and uh not in I was in donnin commit Sue
when he was at Nebraska. Like the award is given
to the best college football player. That's what's supposed to
be the best college role player that year was in
Dominican sue. It didn't matter. He I don't know if
you remember they played texts in the Big Tall Champions Game.
(49:54):
They literally had three guys on him every time they
staffed the football and he was still dominated the game.
He was amazing. So if Hannonooker is the best college
football player in the America, and I would agree with you,
you could in their big wins. He's been the biggest
reason why you know, um, I would. You can't hold
against him the fact that he's old. You just can't
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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