June 12, 2024 • 42 mins
On a Wednesday edition of The Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: After the passing of legendary basketball man Jerry West, Doug shares his memories of the sports icon and explains why he is the greatest basketball person ever.
Doug welcomes acclaimed sports author Roland Lazenby onto the show to talk about the life of Jerry West.
In this week's version of "The Midway", Doug and the crew discuss the comments made by NFL Analyst Greg Olsen that analyzing NBA games is easier than NFL.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
What Up America.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio coming to you from
the tyrat dot com studios.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Tyrat dot com. Wepe you get there.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Unmatched selection, fast free shipping, free road as protection, over
ten thousand recommended sallars tyrat dot com. It's the way
that tire buying should be. We're gonna talk about the
NBA Finals Game three, and we may we may have
a series, all right, we may have a series, especially
(00:49):
with Christaps prazingis being listened as questionable. I want to
get to that. Max Good, the legendary iconic former college
and prep school coach, will join us. We'll talk some Celtics,
but we'll also talk about the sad news of the
passing of Jerry West.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
We'll get to that.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Also, more news on Aaron Rodgers since yesterday, where it
feels like everyone is stealing from our guy Jason Stewart's notes,
where today people woke up saying, Hey, take a guess,
what could Aaron Rodgers be doing instead of being at
training camp, which, by the way, he's gonna miss all
of this of this mini camp. I believe that was
(01:28):
the topic du jour yesterday on the Doug Gottlib Show.
So either they're listening to the show, or stealing off
Jay Stews's notes, or just simply trying to copy the
incredible mind of the producer of this here radio show.
Needless to say, I want to start with Jerry West,
and there's a couple different layers to it. Does make
(01:49):
me think of my dad. And we'll play for you
what what Dan Patrick said today when the news broke
and he was told live on The Dan Patrick Show
here on Fox Sports. And I'll get to why it
makes me think of my dad upcoming. But I would
make the case.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
In the world of debate.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Format that Jerry West is the greatest basketball man to
ever walk the face of the earth. And I would
also make the case that all while it's very sad,
it's not like he died in his thirties or his forties.
(02:31):
You know, you're in your eighties, and he lived an
incredible life. So I'm not happy that he died. But
I do think that in the timing of things, maybe
this is exactly what we need. Because there was, at
least on some levels of discussion, Hey, what if we
changed the logo. I heard this from people who I
(02:55):
sort of respect on television. We should change the logo
to Lebron James.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I've heard that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You know, there was some talk of Jordan, you know
there was, but also a good portion of it was
during the was it year of reckoning? Was that what
we called it? How can we have Jerry westby the
logo of the NBA? And what happens is when an
iconic figure passes away, we eulogize him and we point
(03:25):
out all of the incredible accomplishments of Jerry West. He
is an all time great college player. He is the
only man to win finals MVP whose team did not
win a championship. He average I think it was forty
six and thirteen assists. He actually averaged a triple double
(03:45):
in the finals that they lost. When he was awarded MVP,
and though he wasn't an all time great coach.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
He did coach.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
He is inarguably the most successful executive in the history
of the sport.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
And oh yeah, by the way, underrated.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And not discussed enough, is an amazing evaluator of talent,
evaluator of talent. And of course you could jump in
with the running joke how bad are the Clippers?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
The clippers of the organization? He couldn't make into a winner? Right?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But I think Moore to be smarter about it is
to simply say, look, was he the greatest player of
all time? I'm a Michael Jordan guy. Many people born
in the twenty first century believe that Lebron James is.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
The greatest player of all time.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
We could make the case that Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.
How did they get away from this discussion when they
saved the NBA and own the NBA for the most
glorious decade of the NBA. The most physically dominant was
probably Wilt Chamberlain, the most statistically dominant and MVP dominant,
(05:00):
and until this past year.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The all time leading score was Creamy ab Dul Jabbar.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
He deserves some recognition, but Jerry West is in any
conversation of all time great players Alzheimer's.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And you can make the case that heck, Jerry Krause
built a six time champion.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
We can go through the different general managers in front
offices and picks that are selected, but you can't have
an argument for greatest executive in the history of the
sport without at least mentioning Jerry West. Additionally, in terms
of stars that became great evalu as your talent, because
that's really what was missing, what's been missing in Jordan's game.
(05:48):
Larry Bird was actually a very very good coach. Remember
Larry Bird took over for Isaiah Thomas and they had
hit the ceiling at the first round of the Eastern
Conference player and Larry Bird took the Pacers to the
NBA Finals. So Larry Bird, all time great player and
(06:08):
legendary coach, just didn't do it for too long and
could never get over the hump and win a championship.
But when you combined the player, the executive, the coach,
and the evaluator, I don't think there's any real argument
to be made. And oh yeah, by the way, he
(06:29):
was a great college player and a great NBA player
and played his best, had competitive greatness, played his best
when the best was called for. On a personal note,
he gave me one of the greatest compliments any human
beings ever given me. And I got to share lunch
(06:52):
with him once. I've had friends share lunchers with him.
And when Jerry West says, would you like to have lunch?
Or if you called to ask to have lunch, to
Jerry West, it's like watching basketball Jesus speak to you.
And he had lots of thoughts and he was not
afraid to share them, but he did.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So generally with people that he respected in the field.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And of course it makes me think of my dad
because you know, like, look, I didn't I wasn't allowed
to watch Jerry West play, or Will Chamberlain or even
Pek kream Ubdul Jabbar or Bill Walton. And we lose
Bill Walton last week, we lose Jerry West today. But
to hear him paint the picture of what it was like.
(07:36):
You know, all I know is Jerry West, very strong,
dominant right hand, crazy, crazy athletic jump shooter, like great
elevation on his jump shot, a score, a competitor, and
a warrior. And when they finally won a championship in
seventy two, he did so with a bum knee that nowadays,
(07:59):
obviously you'd get cleaned up, but back then it wasn't
the case. So when I think of Jerry West, sure
I think of my dad, but I think of the
greatest basketball man.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Person to walk this earth.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Strong statement, no doubt, but it's not just hyperbole based
because the guy died. I kind of laid it out
to you. I was driving this morning and I was
listening to Dan Patrick, and this is when I heard
the news.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Dan shared that that Jerry West had passed away.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Jerry West has passed away at the age of eighty six.
He was the logo and certainly a friend of the show.
We tried to have him on. He'd be mad at
me if I was emotional. He like, what are you
crying about. We tried to have him on recently and
(09:01):
he wasn't feeling well. I think he had a cold
or the flu, and his wife said, you know, try again.
I think the last time we had him on was
a little little less than a year ago. And you know,
he's a front of the show and integral part of
the show. Came on many, many, many times, joined us
(09:21):
in studio a couple of times when we were in
Los Angeles. But listen stuff. Yeah, Paulie helped me out.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah, I just gotta tell you, man, we found out
about three or four minutes before you did. Sometimes we
get information before you and none of us in this
room wanted to walk over and tell you this. We
were waiting for the break. And man, I know how
important this guy was to you. I mean we talked
about Walter Payton for me or everyone has an athlete
(09:51):
that and I think work on the show a long time.
I'm sure he was your hero, your dad's and then
and we saw a couple of times, maybe about ten
years ago. He's are coming on a show and he
was sitting there with you and talking basketball, and I
could tell that you were like kind of giddy, like
I can't believe.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, I saw my dad. Yeah, and I think they
were similar age.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Jerry walked out one day and he goes, thank you,
my friend, and I could see You're.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah, that's that's not something that's supposed to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's Zeke from Cabin Creek became mister Clutch. And it's
really fascinating right that here's the guy who was called
mister Clutch and was the MOP that's the most outstanding
player of the National Championship game. And they lost, they lost,
(10:41):
and then he was the MVP of the NBA Finals
and that was actually here that they lost. Now, he
won a gold medal in nineteen sixty in Rome. He
had a very complicated life off the floor, where his
dad abused him and he had thoughts of suicide as
(11:02):
a kid, like this is not a story that you
dot your eyes with hearts over right, But he was
an absolute warrior as a player, an amazing, amazing competitor,
and during my time with him, just a really thoughtful
(11:26):
man who loved to talk about the sport that he
played and that he evaluated and that he built championship
teams on. And yeah, when I was listening, I heard
Dan's voice break and I had all the same thoughts. So, look,
you can think what you want of current players. You're
(11:48):
allowed to. I love when people go, oh, how would
he do against today's player? Well, first of all, Jerry
West was really athletic, very very athletic, and remember you'd
have modern day training as well. But the guy was
the best college basketball player, the best player on the
(12:08):
Olympic team, the best player in the NBA, voted the
the MVP of the finals when his team didn't win,
and then became the best executive and evaluator of teams
and talent the sport has ever seen. I think that's
worthy of something. Give us your thoughts at Gottlieb Show
(12:29):
on x or Twitter, whatever you want to call it,
and we'll we'll find a way to weave some of
that in to today's show.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
This is the best of the Done dot Leab Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's the Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio
and coming to you from the tiraq dot com studios.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And this is a day where.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know, like looks as any generation ages, you know
it's coming. It doesn't mean that it's one that you're
in any way looking forward to. But let's dive in.
Jerry West passes away today, and who better to give
us a sense of who Jerry West really was? Any
(13:16):
man who wrote the book on Jerry West. Roll and
Lasmbie joins us on the Doug Outlet Show here on
Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Your immediate reaction when you heard the news.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Oh, well, you know, my old man was one of
those two handed set shooters out of the hills of
southern West Virginia and Jerry and that this was back
in the thirties, and Jerry West was his favorite player.
And after I wrote the book Going In for ESPN
Books in two thousand and nine, I went and elated
on my old man's grave. So it was personal, very personal,
(13:51):
and then not personal because well, Jerry helped me quite
a bit over the years. It's not like we we're
great friends. But I literally thought the guy would live forever.
I expected him to be one hundred sitting in Las
Vegas at summer leagues, just doing what he'd done since
(14:13):
he was a kid in West Virginia. That's sit at
ball games and look at the athletes.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Roald Lasimi joins US acclaimed sports author. He's written many
books about the Lakers, especially Jerry West. The Life and
Legend of a basketball icon is why he's joining us today.
Complex guy, though, right, I mean, that's part of it is,
you know, an unbelievably accomplished athlete, and of course, you know,
(14:40):
in terms of just a basketball man. He coached the Lakers,
he helped build the Lakers, He evaluated players, obviously an
all time great player, but outside of basketball a complex guy,
was he?
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Not? Oh yes, you know Pat Williams, the general manager
of the Bulls and the Sixers and then the Magic
He talked to me from my Magic Johnson book, as
he has for a couple of my other books, and
Pat was talking about the days when he was a
young executive dealing with Jerry West. And Pat's description was
(15:17):
Jerry West surely the most complicated individual to ever walk
the face of this earth. He said, you know, you'd
call Jerry expecting to have a front office conversation. Jerry
would pick up the phone and he would go on
right off the jump to everything going on on the
(15:39):
inside with everybody's team in the league, everything really going
on on the inside of your team. And you hadn't
even asked him or said a word to him yet,
and Jerry could just unload the truth like that in truckloads.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, really really, really, really interesting his love and knowledge
for basketball. But he was also portrayed in the Showtime
show having anger and bitterness. How do you think that? Huh,
I'm sorry, go ahead, oh three to what me?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Let me fix that.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
He's also portrayed in that show winning time on HBO
as being kind of angry and bitter. Granted this was
in a time of the early eighties. How accurate do
you believe that portrayal was?
Speaker 6 (16:34):
You know, I when I did my book, Jerry's father
had been did thirty some years, forty years, and his
family members knew he was bringing his book out, and
they knew that Jerry had very hard feelings about their father.
(16:59):
And they all talked to me because they didn't share
those same feelings, and they wanted a more nuanced view
of their father. And Jerry got furious with me, because
indeed his father was worthy of a nuanced view. But
you know, at the heart of this, Jerry was this kid, eleven, twelve,
(17:24):
thirteen years old, scrawny little kid. His mother was this
insanely fierceect perfectionist like pioneer women were, and make no mistake,
West Virginia in the nineteen forties was Philip pioneer state,
and Jerry shared that intensely perfectionist nature. And then when
(17:49):
his older brother David, who was the adored child in
the family, adored by the whole family, when he got
killed in combat in Korea. As Charles, Jerry's older brother
explained to me, Jerry's mother and Jerry both had a
nervous breakdown over the death of David, and that was
(18:13):
the thing that just sort of propelled this entire intense
package toward what it became.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
And that really healed him, right, I mean.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
That just oh yes, and how he despised his father.
Jerry wouldn't eat and he developed scurvy. It was a
you know, back then and now I'm from Southwest Virginia
right below the border. My father from West Virginia, and
those cultures were not going to spare any of the rod.
(18:47):
They were going to go right at a kid. And
Jerry's father whipped him, and Jerry would say, beat him
over not eating, and that was the seed of their hatred.
And Jerry, you know, then you take those circumstances and
he goes to the NCAA Championship game, and this is
(19:11):
what Jerry explained to me. He's got his hands on
the ball, the times running out, they're down a point.
It is West Virginia versus Pete Noule's cow team, and
Jerry just can't get close enough to get off a shot.
And then here comes the NBA and six times they
(19:32):
go up against those Boston Celtics of Bill Russell in
the league championship series, and all six times they lose.
And then they go up against the Knicks in seventy
for a seventh time at the title they lose again.
They finally win in seventy two. By then, there's no
joy in it. There is all this controversy with the
(19:55):
Lakers and Jerry perfectionist he was. He just embraced all
the torment and the misery of the moment looking for
something that would jack him to the next level to
get what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What was his passion like as an executive? Where'd that
come from?
Speaker 6 (20:20):
From the same burning fire, that perfectionism? You know, he
almost quit one night coaching in Boston with a loss,
but after games. You know, back in the seventies when
Kareem was there and the Lakers had given away most
of their talent and they had a chance to get
(20:42):
Doctor j and Jack Kemp Cook wouldn't do it, and
that just drove Jerry West crazy. But the PR director
from those days explained to me he would be in
the locker room begging Jerry so many nights just to
come out and speak of the reporters in those days,
(21:03):
they either wanted to talk to Kareem or to Jerry West,
and they didn't give a crap about talking to anybody else.
And there he got Kareem, you got a chisel words
out of him. And Jerry with all this anger and
torment and his perfectionist nature and how hard he was
(21:23):
on himself and on his certain players, it was quite
a nasty mix. And so he had Bill Sharmon, his
old coach from seventy two, as the top dog executive
with the Lakers, and when Jerry Buss bought him, the
(21:43):
guy that Jerry West absolutely hated, Jack kN Cook, disappeared
from the scene and Bill Sharmon's voice was gone by then.
He was happy for Jerry to come along and work
on things as an assistant GM. And it was like
Jerry was paroled, no more misery coaching that team. He
(22:05):
didn't have to he didn't have to necessarily answer a
lot of questions, and it was where he could put himself.
He could become a mentor. Now that didn't mean he
still didn't make a good run at you know, the
bat Cave crazy. He still had all of those inclinations.
(22:26):
He still had all the things that drove his perfectionism
and his mani in the first place. But he really
did understand players, He really, really really understood the game.
And he had a reverence. Now he was the logo.
He had a reverence like no other executive in NBA history,
(22:51):
probably not even Red hour Back. He had a reverence
maybe Red hour Back. He had a reverence that nobody
else enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
If you were to Roland lasanbie join Us wrote the
book on Jerry West, as well as many of the
books on the Lakers.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Last thing, Roland, if.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
You were to explain to my son's fifteen years old,
and he knows Jerry West is a great player, he
knows he's the logo. How did you surmise the man
who passed away today?
Speaker 6 (23:22):
Just an incredibly determined, very gifted athlete, a guy who
before we had pace in space, just knew how to
play in the flow of a game. And this from
John Radcliffe, who was their scorekeeper. These are the things
(23:44):
John Radcliffe, who was a scorekeeper for more than thirty
years for the Lakers, a coach himself, who watched courtside,
and just I mean constantly overwhelmed by the talent and
ability of Jerry West to push the agenda even more
than that, to want the agenda.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Roland, I know it's been a tough day. Your book
is magnificent.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I hope more people pick it up than ever have
before because Jerry West, a life and legend of a
basketball icon, is exceptionally well written and researched. I encourage
everybody to go pick it up. Thanks so much for
joining us on a tough day the passing of Jerry West.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
Thank you. Doug. Always great to visit.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
What Up with You?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I hope you're having
a great day. We're having a good one here. The
Doug Gottlieb Show is broadcast lab from the tyrat dot
com studios. Tyrat dot com on match selection, fast free shipping,
free road, has protection over ten tasks, recommend is sellars,
ti rat dot com sway tire buying should be I
We're to get to the midway upcoming. Plus we've got
a fun discussion regarding Aaron Rodgers missing all of Mini
(24:59):
Camp yesterday. Were told us to me one day now
he told it's all of Mini Camp and we'll have
a special guest role in Lasbmbie who he's the claimed
sports author. He wrote many books and especially about the Lakers,
including most notably for Today because Jerry West passed away
at eighty six, Jerry West the life and legend of
a basketball icon. So all that is this hour and
(25:19):
a reminder right after the show you can download the show.
It's an entirety as a podcast and our special podcast
only hour. Just type in Doug Gottlieb wherever you get podcasts,
you get the Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. But a bang,
but a bang, but a boom before we get to
the midway, a'll quickly buyer. I think you can appreciate
this because you are incredibly well traveled, and Jay Stu
(25:44):
you will because you've worked with you with booking guests
for twenty five years and going back to the Rome days. Right,
you get callers from all over. I never forget so
when I got home from ABCD camp, the Big the
two Big Camp when I was a in high school
where Nike All American Camp and first was Converse and
(26:07):
then it was Adidas ABCD camp, and there used to
be one camp called Nike ABCD and it was in
at the Universe at Princeton, and they would actually do
school stuff in the morning and teach you how to
take the SAT and you know how to prioritize your time,
and then the afternoon you'd play. And then Sonny Vaccaro
(26:27):
left Nike and went first to Converse and then to Adidas,
and he took his brand ABCD with him, and then
Nike started the Nike All American Camp, which moved to Indianapolis.
So when I got home from ABCD camp before my
senior year. This was in Fairleigh Dickinson University, also known
as Fairly Ridiculous in t Neck, New Jersey, I kind
of the term as I blew up at the camp.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I had a really good camp.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And I went from a guy that I had like
an offer from Florida and Virginia to everyone offered me,
including Jim Calhoun and Yukon and Dave Hobbs was his
assistant and coach Hobbs is a great dude. He talked
to me, he was like, hey, man, we have we
have Kevin Ollie on the team right now, right, he's
a graduating senior. I think I think I think Kao
(27:12):
was a senior at that time. Maybe he'd already graduated.
I can't remember, but Ko had definitely had was referenced
in it. They had Deron Scheffer as well. I think
Kao had graduated and they had Deron Sheffer and they're like,
you can ask Ko about us and whatever. I'm gonna
put you on with Coach Calhoun, I guess that he was.
(27:32):
I couldn't understand a word he said, not a word.
And I was like, uh huh uh huh, yeah, you
come out, you play put God, you know, I need
a point got my team, Like I have no idea what.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
He's talking about.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Hey, thanks coach. And then Dave how Was picked up
the phone. He's like, all right, so you know, we
like to bring it out and a visit, you know,
and whatever. I was like, okay, thanks coach. Couldn't understand
a word he said, but I will tell you this,
he's an awesome coach. And when I called his games,
the media guys would have a bet on two things.
(28:10):
Uh would he sub before the first media timeout which
is four minutes? And who would it be and inevitably
it would happen, like a minute and a half into
the game. He's somebody who started, he got introduced to
the starting lineups. Then he'd screw up something he told him,
then out he would come. Couldn't understand a word he said.
(28:32):
In my first phone called Coach Calhoun and I did. Doug,
Duke's making the Suburbs. We're being in the city. So
he's telling me, Duke Suburbs. You'll never see anybody in
a city where a Duke Jersey. Let's get to the Midway.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
He's not getting the middle.
Speaker 6 (28:52):
It's time for the.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
Midway.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
The Midway, The Midway, The Midway, Midway, the Midway.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Jay Stu, what's your idea for the Midway? Here? You
want to do this? Greg Olsen thing right.
Speaker 7 (29:17):
I woke up this morning. I woke up to a thread.
Thread And I'm not talking about that that Facebook version
of Twitter that everyone said they were going to go
use and they never did, and I don't even know
exists anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Not they still it still exists, but it's all like
softcore and hardcore porn.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
Like doing it like yeah, oh, then I need to
check it out. Yea, so Twitter. I woke up to
a thread on Twitter from Doug Gottwig. Uh, you had
some time on your hands today, you were passionate about
this topic, so I figured, let's talk about it. You
saw or heard Greg Olsen say something on a podcast.
I think we have what he said, Chris.
Speaker 8 (29:57):
They're not really getting like the play by play exact
because it's happening so fast, right They're they're flowing from
offense to defense, from transition to foul inbounds, baseline out
of bounds. They're they're flowing through so many different situations
in real time that they're only diving into like the real,
real specifics of a great baseline out of bounds or
a great side out of bounds, or the strategy at
(30:19):
the end of the game of who to foul, who
to trap, how to get the ball out of their hand,
really in just like a handful of those moments. And
I find that super fascinating to like sit and learn
as just like a basketball fan. In football, it's a
start and stop. You know, one hundred and fifty times,
you know, one hundred and for each team, say has
the ball seventy times there are seventy offensive plays, seventy
defensive plays, and then flips. So there's just a million
(30:42):
different plays that you have to be prepared to explain.
If you're not playing competitive tackle football, you're not playing football,
Like you're not doing it on the weekends. Right, people
are just more accustomed to basketball and they're playing it.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
It's just more I just think it's more accessible.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
It's just more familiar with the ins and outs of
it because more people do it than they do play
tackle football.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Okay, that's actually wrong, that's actually wrong.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I believe My belief is more people think they know
of football because most guys play I like, I mean, look,
people play basketball and they still play it, but they
don't play real basketball, whereas they actually play real football,
albeit at a much lower level. Growing up played tackle
youth football. I played tackle football for eight years. Right now,
everybody plays flags. It's obviously very different. But you know,
(31:32):
like growing up who didn't play high school football or
junior high football, I would say a higher percentage played
than basketball, just based on sure numbers, but the idea
that ah, you know, they're just they're just commenting on plays, like, look,
the rhythm of it is different. But okay, so here's
(31:53):
the what's the do you want the could he do both?
Could a football guy do basketball? What's harder to do?
What do you want the topic to be?
Speaker 7 (32:00):
J Stut, I want the topic to be what made
you most interested to write a thread about this?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, it's just it's really amazing what Greg doesn't know
considering how much he knows about broadcasting football.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
All right, that would be my.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It's what he got into is the rhythm of football
is different. But it's I mean, I've I haven't done both,
but I've done both. So I got there's a company
called Compass Media Networks. They're awesome, and I got to
call a couple of games and play by play, and
I can tell you one equivally. I've done play by
play for basketball. I'm a color analyst for basketball, but
(32:44):
I've done play by play football. Way easier NFL football,
especially because you only really have at that time forty
six guys, right, and you know, you call down distance
and formation and kind of all you gotta know is
the skill position players. It's a lot more exciting that's
in play by play, and then with analysis, you're having
(33:07):
a play and then a break and then a play
and then a break.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
So the rhythm is very different.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
What I think he got to was basketball, you don't
analyze every play.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
You have to pick and choose your spots. It's kind
of an art.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
But the idea that he could in any way provide
any sort of insight, it's kind of laughable, kind of laughable,
and it's super arrogant.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
That's how it landed on me. What about you? What
about you, Dan, Dan Byer, what do you think?
Speaker 6 (33:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (33:42):
I agree with you, Like there's there's a major difference
between being able to do two things and to be
able to do two things well. And yeah, Greg Olsen
could get through an NBA game, would we have learned anything,
would we have done anything, or you know, have taken
anything away from it? I would say probably not. Probably
(34:03):
not in that realm, but because there's just a huge
difference of doing things and actually doing things well. The
one thing that I would say on his part comparing
being an analyst to football and basketball, which by the way,
is not a comparison on why football could do basketball.
Football has so many different things going on, where basketball,
(34:26):
I don't want to say that you're following the ball
a majority of the time. But I think that you are,
and if you're not, there are very I think there
are fewer instances where something off the ball is the
reason why the ball went into the basket.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
That fair, Doug, would you say?
Speaker 9 (34:42):
And whether it be it may not be just about
the shot or the dunk, could be about the pass,
could be about the pick, but very rarely does it
not have to do with how the basket was made
or missed.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I think, I really yes, and I look, I'll fully
admit there's plenty of people who call NBA in college
games that don't tell you the why, They just tell
you the what, And yeah, that bar is pretty low,
and I do think a lot of people could do that.
Speaker 9 (35:12):
And in the NFL, if you're just following the ball,
you're not seeing what's happening on the offensive line, you're
not seeing what's happening, you know, with the other maybe
three receivers that are on the route. That would make
it more difficult. I think in that essence to pick.
How am I going to analyze this? But by no
means doesn't mean that football can transition to basketball. It's
(35:36):
just I don't believe that that's the case.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I don't think so either.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I think one of the things that Greg and I
don't know if he I know Greg a little bit
and I like him a lot, and I take him
to be a really good dude, a really good broadcaster,
but he has had so many people heat praise on him.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
This one felt a little bit like he's feeling himself.
I get it that.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
No, no, there's like one hundred plays in football, Like,
do you have any possessions that are in the NBA now.
Part of it also comes from the reality that most
guys who do games football and basketball don't actually do
it very well. Like I think stan Van Gunny does
a great job. I don't always love his delivery, but
he picks up on an adjustment made here or there.
(36:22):
A substitution is made for a purpose.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You know. It's like you're watching and I think JJ
does a good job. Doris is I believe this.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I think Doris is actually better when she did college
basketball men's college basketball, because I feel like she doesn't
want to extend herself to be wrong, like she's she's
kind of a conservative version of herself. Doris is really good.
She does see the entire game. She will drive for
(36:55):
my taste and she actually has a good personality. But
again I think that she's just a little close to
the vest because of the magnitude of the event where
I don't believe in that style. I'm just who you are.
That's how you got the job. But again that's probably
what's allowed her to climb faster than I could climb.
But the point is that I do think that one
(37:16):
thing we would all admit is there are plenty of
people doing it, and I don't think Greg is one
of these people that aren't very good at it. And
so those people, that's not a high bar to get to.
And those people, Dan, tell me if you like this,
those people are commentators, They make comments. I'm talking about
(37:37):
analysts and people who teach me something or show me
what I missed as to why something worked.
Speaker 9 (37:42):
Yes, yes, I am good with that. And it's why
the play by play is a different skill set. Yes,
why Kevin Harlan and Ein Eagle can go and do
football and basketball and do all those things because it
is a different skill set and what you need to
know and how you need to present that information.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Now equally, And here's the inside the beltway.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And maybe this is too much for people. Maybe you
don't care.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Play by play is different than analysis, right, Radio is
different than TV.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
When you do radio, that is a play by play
man's game. You just get in when you can just
little nuggets, little lines. It is not your show. Now
as an analyst, it is your show. But you can't
and I told this to Dan Orlovsky, you can't show
off every play like Dani Rolofsky literally could diagram and
(38:34):
draw every single play and tell you what, why, how,
what went wrong, what went right. All those guys can,
the really really good ones can tell you all of
that stuff and they can process it super fast, but
the viewer can't process it.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
It's too much information.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
So you have to be much You have to have
the economy words, and you have to pick and choose
your spots.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
And the same is true for basketball.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Like I could diagram every play, I can tell you
exactly what why they ran it, when they ran it,
how they ran it, and what went right, what went wrong.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
But if you do that for.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
One hundred and ten possessions, it's annoying and nobody will
ever watch it. So but but I don't think people understand.
There's as you point out, there's difference in play by
play and color. There's a difference in radio at like,
for example, if you're calling a game on TV, you
don't have to say, as a play by play guy
that the shot went in, you know, and you don't
(39:26):
have to reference the score because there's a score bug
right there.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
You just don't.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
But that's where the the analyst, not the commentator. The
analyst's job is to tell you why. And it's really
hard when it's not your sport to tell somebody why somehow.
So that's what I gotta be passionate about it today, Chase too.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
Well, personally, my I I like the point you meant
about Dorisbrook by the way. I've never even thought about that,
and I think you're right. There's something there's no there
there with her, and there's nothing to do with her
being a woman. I think she too conservative.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Listen, Doris real, Doris is funny as hell. This is
I'll give you the real story. So the day, what
was the Space Shuttle? Not the Challengers when we were kids.
What was the other one that.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Blew up over Texas, Columbia? Was that Columbia?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, okay, she was calling a game that day. I
was getting ready to a game and she was calling
Boston College. You can look it up in terms of
days when that happened. I believe that was like the
last Saturday of college basketball, because I think it was
Troy Bell's last game in the Big East. These the
(40:38):
all time Big East, all time Leans score. I was
watching the Boston College game and my guy who hired me,
his guy named Dan Steer at ESPN, and Dan Steer
would teach us all like tell me the why, don't
tell me the what. And I'm watching it and I'd
never heard of Doris Burke before, and I called him
and I said, Dan, who's the woman doing the Austin
(41:00):
College game. He's like, her name is Doris Burke. She
played a Providence. I was like, she's fantastic, fantastic. I
was like, in terms of executing a broadcast, how she
executes the broadcast, when she gets in, when she gets out,
all of that stuff. What I've always thought she's missed.
It is like a little personality, a little there there.
But then you meet Doris and You're like, she's actually
(41:22):
very very funny. I just think that because she thinks
she's always being judged, especially now at this level and
she's already made it. Like, what's like the humor is
the personality off air does not match the personality on air.
Speaker 9 (41:38):
I mean, before Chris jumps in, I do want to
say one other thing about Doris Burke, because they made
such a big deal about her being the first woman
to call an NBA finals. I feel she's probably been
qualified to do that for the last five years. But
it's just for the chair to open up, you know,
in terms of of you know, it was a great,
great moment, but it was done on the decisions of
(42:01):
ESPN to give that moment.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yeah, okay, it's fair, but would you I mean, just honestly,
Mark Jackson and JVG or j J Reddick endorse perk.
Speaker 9 (42:14):
I am not a fan of Mark Jackson's analysis.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
I'm not.
Speaker 6 (42:18):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
I'm not either, but it works with Jeff Van Gundy
and Mike Britt.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Sure, he's he's.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
He's Kenny Smith like Kenny Smith left to his own
kind of meanders, kind of wanders around Kenny Smith with
Barklay and Shack Gold and I think, and again, I'm
I'm the same, Mama, don't go den Man again, right,
Like it's a great analysis Mark.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
But it really works.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
It worked with Jeffy in my opinion, in my opinion,
so and that's the midway.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
The midway,
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
boxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR boom.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
What Up America.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio coming to you from
the tyrat dot com studios.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Tyrat dot com. Wepe you get there.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Unmatched selection, fast free shipping, free road as protection, over
ten thousand recommended sallars tyrat dot com. It's the way
that tire buying should be. We're gonna talk about the
NBA Finals Game three, and we may we may have
a series, all right, we may have a series, especially
(00:49):
with Christaps prazingis being listened as questionable. I want to
get to that. Max Good, the legendary iconic former college
and prep school coach, will join us. We'll talk some Celtics,
but we'll also talk about the sad news of the
passing of Jerry West.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
We'll get to that.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Also, more news on Aaron Rodgers since yesterday, where it
feels like everyone is stealing from our guy Jason Stewart's notes,
where today people woke up saying, Hey, take a guess,
what could Aaron Rodgers be doing instead of being at
training camp, which, by the way, he's gonna miss all
of this of this mini camp. I believe that was
(01:28):
the topic du jour yesterday on the Doug Gottlib Show.
So either they're listening to the show, or stealing off
Jay Stews's notes, or just simply trying to copy the
incredible mind of the producer of this here radio show.
Needless to say, I want to start with Jerry West,
and there's a couple different layers to it. Does make
(01:49):
me think of my dad. And we'll play for you
what what Dan Patrick said today when the news broke
and he was told live on The Dan Patrick Show
here on Fox Sports. And I'll get to why it
makes me think of my dad upcoming. But I would
make the case.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
In the world of debate.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Format that Jerry West is the greatest basketball man to
ever walk the face of the earth. And I would
also make the case that all while it's very sad,
it's not like he died in his thirties or his forties.
(02:31):
You know, you're in your eighties, and he lived an
incredible life. So I'm not happy that he died. But
I do think that in the timing of things, maybe
this is exactly what we need. Because there was, at
least on some levels of discussion, Hey, what if we
changed the logo. I heard this from people who I
(02:55):
sort of respect on television. We should change the logo
to Lebron James.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I've heard that.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You know, there was some talk of Jordan, you know
there was, but also a good portion of it was
during the was it year of reckoning? Was that what
we called it? How can we have Jerry westby the
logo of the NBA? And what happens is when an
iconic figure passes away, we eulogize him and we point
(03:25):
out all of the incredible accomplishments of Jerry West. He
is an all time great college player. He is the
only man to win finals MVP whose team did not
win a championship. He average I think it was forty
six and thirteen assists. He actually averaged a triple double
(03:45):
in the finals that they lost. When he was awarded MVP,
and though he wasn't an all time great coach.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
He did coach.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
He is inarguably the most successful executive in the history
of the sport.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
And oh yeah, by the way, underrated.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
And not discussed enough, is an amazing evaluator of talent,
evaluator of talent. And of course you could jump in
with the running joke how bad are the Clippers?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
The clippers of the organization? He couldn't make into a winner? Right?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But I think Moore to be smarter about it is
to simply say, look, was he the greatest player of
all time? I'm a Michael Jordan guy. Many people born
in the twenty first century believe that Lebron James is.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
The greatest player of all time.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
We could make the case that Larry Bird and Magic Johnson.
How did they get away from this discussion when they
saved the NBA and own the NBA for the most
glorious decade of the NBA. The most physically dominant was
probably Wilt Chamberlain, the most statistically dominant and MVP dominant,
(05:00):
and until this past year.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The all time leading score was Creamy ab Dul Jabbar.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
He deserves some recognition, but Jerry West is in any
conversation of all time great players Alzheimer's.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And you can make the case that heck, Jerry Krause
built a six time champion.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
We can go through the different general managers in front
offices and picks that are selected, but you can't have
an argument for greatest executive in the history of the
sport without at least mentioning Jerry West. Additionally, in terms
of stars that became great evalu as your talent, because
that's really what was missing, what's been missing in Jordan's game.
(05:48):
Larry Bird was actually a very very good coach. Remember
Larry Bird took over for Isaiah Thomas and they had
hit the ceiling at the first round of the Eastern
Conference player and Larry Bird took the Pacers to the
NBA Finals. So Larry Bird, all time great player and
(06:08):
legendary coach, just didn't do it for too long and
could never get over the hump and win a championship.
But when you combined the player, the executive, the coach,
and the evaluator, I don't think there's any real argument
to be made. And oh yeah, by the way, he
(06:29):
was a great college player and a great NBA player
and played his best, had competitive greatness, played his best
when the best was called for. On a personal note,
he gave me one of the greatest compliments any human
beings ever given me. And I got to share lunch
(06:52):
with him once. I've had friends share lunchers with him.
And when Jerry West says, would you like to have lunch?
Or if you called to ask to have lunch, to
Jerry West, it's like watching basketball Jesus speak to you.
And he had lots of thoughts and he was not
afraid to share them, but he did.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
So generally with people that he respected in the field.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
And of course it makes me think of my dad
because you know, like, look, I didn't I wasn't allowed
to watch Jerry West play, or Will Chamberlain or even
Pek kream Ubdul Jabbar or Bill Walton. And we lose
Bill Walton last week, we lose Jerry West today. But
to hear him paint the picture of what it was like.
(07:36):
You know, all I know is Jerry West, very strong,
dominant right hand, crazy, crazy athletic jump shooter, like great
elevation on his jump shot, a score, a competitor, and
a warrior. And when they finally won a championship in
seventy two, he did so with a bum knee that nowadays,
(07:59):
obviously you'd get cleaned up, but back then it wasn't
the case. So when I think of Jerry West, sure
I think of my dad, but I think of the
greatest basketball man.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Person to walk this earth.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Strong statement, no doubt, but it's not just hyperbole based
because the guy died. I kind of laid it out
to you. I was driving this morning and I was
listening to Dan Patrick, and this is when I heard
the news.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Dan shared that that Jerry West had passed away.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Jerry West has passed away at the age of eighty six.
He was the logo and certainly a friend of the show.
We tried to have him on. He'd be mad at
me if I was emotional. He like, what are you
crying about. We tried to have him on recently and
(09:01):
he wasn't feeling well. I think he had a cold
or the flu, and his wife said, you know, try again.
I think the last time we had him on was
a little little less than a year ago. And you know,
he's a front of the show and integral part of
the show. Came on many, many, many times, joined us
(09:21):
in studio a couple of times when we were in
Los Angeles. But listen stuff. Yeah, Paulie helped me out.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah, I just gotta tell you, man, we found out
about three or four minutes before you did. Sometimes we
get information before you and none of us in this
room wanted to walk over and tell you this. We
were waiting for the break. And man, I know how
important this guy was to you. I mean we talked
about Walter Payton for me or everyone has an athlete
(09:51):
that and I think work on the show a long time.
I'm sure he was your hero, your dad's and then
and we saw a couple of times, maybe about ten
years ago. He's are coming on a show and he
was sitting there with you and talking basketball, and I
could tell that you were like kind of giddy, like
I can't believe.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Well, I saw my dad. Yeah, and I think they
were similar age.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Jerry walked out one day and he goes, thank you,
my friend, and I could see You're.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
Yeah, that's that's not something that's supposed to happen.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
You know.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
It's Zeke from Cabin Creek became mister Clutch. And it's
really fascinating right that here's the guy who was called
mister Clutch and was the MOP that's the most outstanding
player of the National Championship game. And they lost, they lost,
(10:41):
and then he was the MVP of the NBA Finals
and that was actually here that they lost. Now, he
won a gold medal in nineteen sixty in Rome. He
had a very complicated life off the floor, where his
dad abused him and he had thoughts of suicide as
(11:02):
a kid, like this is not a story that you
dot your eyes with hearts over right, But he was
an absolute warrior as a player, an amazing, amazing competitor,
and during my time with him, just a really thoughtful
(11:26):
man who loved to talk about the sport that he
played and that he evaluated and that he built championship
teams on. And yeah, when I was listening, I heard
Dan's voice break and I had all the same thoughts. So, look,
you can think what you want of current players. You're
(11:48):
allowed to. I love when people go, oh, how would
he do against today's player? Well, first of all, Jerry
West was really athletic, very very athletic, and remember you'd
have modern day training as well. But the guy was
the best college basketball player, the best player on the
(12:08):
Olympic team, the best player in the NBA, voted the
the MVP of the finals when his team didn't win,
and then became the best executive and evaluator of teams
and talent the sport has ever seen. I think that's
worthy of something. Give us your thoughts at Gottlieb Show
(12:29):
on x or Twitter, whatever you want to call it,
and we'll we'll find a way to weave some of
that in to today's show.
Speaker 5 (12:38):
This is the best of the Done dot Leab Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
It's the Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio
and coming to you from the tiraq dot com studios.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And this is a day where.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
You know, like looks as any generation ages, you know
it's coming. It doesn't mean that it's one that you're
in any way looking forward to. But let's dive in.
Jerry West passes away today, and who better to give
us a sense of who Jerry West really was? Any
(13:16):
man who wrote the book on Jerry West. Roll and
Lasmbie joins us on the Doug Outlet Show here on
Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Your immediate reaction when you heard the news.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
Oh, well, you know, my old man was one of
those two handed set shooters out of the hills of
southern West Virginia and Jerry and that this was back
in the thirties, and Jerry West was his favorite player.
And after I wrote the book Going In for ESPN
Books in two thousand and nine, I went and elated
on my old man's grave. So it was personal, very personal,
(13:51):
and then not personal because well, Jerry helped me quite
a bit over the years. It's not like we we're
great friends. But I literally thought the guy would live forever.
I expected him to be one hundred sitting in Las
Vegas at summer leagues, just doing what he'd done since
(14:13):
he was a kid in West Virginia. That's sit at
ball games and look at the athletes.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Roald Lasimi joins US acclaimed sports author. He's written many
books about the Lakers, especially Jerry West. The Life and
Legend of a basketball icon is why he's joining us today.
Complex guy, though, right, I mean, that's part of it is,
you know, an unbelievably accomplished athlete, and of course, you know,
(14:40):
in terms of just a basketball man. He coached the Lakers,
he helped build the Lakers, He evaluated players, obviously an
all time great player, but outside of basketball a complex guy,
was he?
Speaker 6 (14:53):
Not? Oh yes, you know Pat Williams, the general manager
of the Bulls and the Sixers and then the Magic
He talked to me from my Magic Johnson book, as
he has for a couple of my other books, and
Pat was talking about the days when he was a
young executive dealing with Jerry West. And Pat's description was
(15:17):
Jerry West surely the most complicated individual to ever walk
the face of this earth. He said, you know, you'd
call Jerry expecting to have a front office conversation. Jerry
would pick up the phone and he would go on
right off the jump to everything going on on the
(15:39):
inside with everybody's team in the league, everything really going
on on the inside of your team. And you hadn't
even asked him or said a word to him yet,
and Jerry could just unload the truth like that in truckloads.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, really really, really, really interesting his love and knowledge
for basketball. But he was also portrayed in the Showtime
show having anger and bitterness. How do you think that? Huh,
I'm sorry, go ahead, oh three to what me?
Speaker 2 (16:18):
Let me fix that.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
He's also portrayed in that show winning time on HBO
as being kind of angry and bitter. Granted this was
in a time of the early eighties. How accurate do
you believe that portrayal was?
Speaker 6 (16:34):
You know, I when I did my book, Jerry's father
had been did thirty some years, forty years, and his
family members knew he was bringing his book out, and
they knew that Jerry had very hard feelings about their father.
(16:59):
And they all talked to me because they didn't share
those same feelings, and they wanted a more nuanced view
of their father. And Jerry got furious with me, because
indeed his father was worthy of a nuanced view. But
you know, at the heart of this, Jerry was this kid, eleven, twelve,
(17:24):
thirteen years old, scrawny little kid. His mother was this
insanely fierceect perfectionist like pioneer women were, and make no mistake,
West Virginia in the nineteen forties was Philip pioneer state,
and Jerry shared that intensely perfectionist nature. And then when
(17:49):
his older brother David, who was the adored child in
the family, adored by the whole family, when he got
killed in combat in Korea. As Charles, Jerry's older brother
explained to me, Jerry's mother and Jerry both had a
nervous breakdown over the death of David, and that was
(18:13):
the thing that just sort of propelled this entire intense
package toward what it became.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
And that really healed him, right, I mean.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
That just oh yes, and how he despised his father.
Jerry wouldn't eat and he developed scurvy. It was a
you know, back then and now I'm from Southwest Virginia
right below the border. My father from West Virginia, and
those cultures were not going to spare any of the rod.
(18:47):
They were going to go right at a kid. And
Jerry's father whipped him, and Jerry would say, beat him
over not eating, and that was the seed of their hatred.
And Jerry, you know, then you take those circumstances and
he goes to the NCAA Championship game, and this is
(19:11):
what Jerry explained to me. He's got his hands on
the ball, the times running out, they're down a point.
It is West Virginia versus Pete Noule's cow team, and
Jerry just can't get close enough to get off a shot.
And then here comes the NBA and six times they
(19:32):
go up against those Boston Celtics of Bill Russell in
the league championship series, and all six times they lose.
And then they go up against the Knicks in seventy
for a seventh time at the title they lose again.
They finally win in seventy two. By then, there's no
joy in it. There is all this controversy with the
(19:55):
Lakers and Jerry perfectionist he was. He just embraced all
the torment and the misery of the moment looking for
something that would jack him to the next level to
get what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What was his passion like as an executive? Where'd that
come from?
Speaker 6 (20:20):
From the same burning fire, that perfectionism? You know, he
almost quit one night coaching in Boston with a loss,
but after games. You know, back in the seventies when
Kareem was there and the Lakers had given away most
of their talent and they had a chance to get
(20:42):
Doctor j and Jack Kemp Cook wouldn't do it, and
that just drove Jerry West crazy. But the PR director
from those days explained to me he would be in
the locker room begging Jerry so many nights just to
come out and speak of the reporters in those days,
(21:03):
they either wanted to talk to Kareem or to Jerry West,
and they didn't give a crap about talking to anybody else.
And there he got Kareem, you got a chisel words
out of him. And Jerry with all this anger and
torment and his perfectionist nature and how hard he was
(21:23):
on himself and on his certain players, it was quite
a nasty mix. And so he had Bill Sharmon, his
old coach from seventy two, as the top dog executive
with the Lakers, and when Jerry Buss bought him, the
(21:43):
guy that Jerry West absolutely hated, Jack kN Cook, disappeared
from the scene and Bill Sharmon's voice was gone by then.
He was happy for Jerry to come along and work
on things as an assistant GM. And it was like
Jerry was paroled, no more misery coaching that team. He
(22:05):
didn't have to he didn't have to necessarily answer a
lot of questions, and it was where he could put himself.
He could become a mentor. Now that didn't mean he
still didn't make a good run at you know, the
bat Cave crazy. He still had all of those inclinations.
(22:26):
He still had all the things that drove his perfectionism
and his mani in the first place. But he really
did understand players, He really, really really understood the game.
And he had a reverence. Now he was the logo.
He had a reverence like no other executive in NBA history,
(22:51):
probably not even Red hour Back. He had a reverence
maybe Red hour Back. He had a reverence that nobody
else enjoyed.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
If you were to Roland lasanbie join Us wrote the
book on Jerry West, as well as many of the
books on the Lakers.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Last thing, Roland, if.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
You were to explain to my son's fifteen years old,
and he knows Jerry West is a great player, he
knows he's the logo. How did you surmise the man
who passed away today?
Speaker 6 (23:22):
Just an incredibly determined, very gifted athlete, a guy who
before we had pace in space, just knew how to
play in the flow of a game. And this from
John Radcliffe, who was their scorekeeper. These are the things
(23:44):
John Radcliffe, who was a scorekeeper for more than thirty
years for the Lakers, a coach himself, who watched courtside,
and just I mean constantly overwhelmed by the talent and
ability of Jerry West to push the agenda even more
than that, to want the agenda.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Roland, I know it's been a tough day. Your book
is magnificent.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
I hope more people pick it up than ever have
before because Jerry West, a life and legend of a
basketball icon, is exceptionally well written and researched. I encourage
everybody to go pick it up. Thanks so much for
joining us on a tough day the passing of Jerry West.
Speaker 6 (24:23):
Thank you. Doug. Always great to visit.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
What Up with You?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I hope you're having
a great day. We're having a good one here. The
Doug Gottlieb Show is broadcast lab from the tyrat dot
com studios. Tyrat dot com on match selection, fast free shipping,
free road, has protection over ten tasks, recommend is sellars,
ti rat dot com sway tire buying should be I
We're to get to the midway upcoming. Plus we've got
a fun discussion regarding Aaron Rodgers missing all of Mini
(24:59):
Camp yesterday. Were told us to me one day now
he told it's all of Mini Camp and we'll have
a special guest role in Lasbmbie who he's the claimed
sports author. He wrote many books and especially about the Lakers,
including most notably for Today because Jerry West passed away
at eighty six, Jerry West the life and legend of
a basketball icon. So all that is this hour and
(25:19):
a reminder right after the show you can download the show.
It's an entirety as a podcast and our special podcast
only hour. Just type in Doug Gottlieb wherever you get podcasts,
you get the Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. But a bang,
but a bang, but a boom before we get to
the midway, a'll quickly buyer. I think you can appreciate
this because you are incredibly well traveled, and Jay Stu
(25:44):
you will because you've worked with you with booking guests
for twenty five years and going back to the Rome days. Right,
you get callers from all over. I never forget so
when I got home from ABCD camp, the Big the
two Big Camp when I was a in high school
where Nike All American Camp and first was Converse and
(26:07):
then it was Adidas ABCD camp, and there used to
be one camp called Nike ABCD and it was in
at the Universe at Princeton, and they would actually do
school stuff in the morning and teach you how to
take the SAT and you know how to prioritize your time,
and then the afternoon you'd play. And then Sonny Vaccaro
(26:27):
left Nike and went first to Converse and then to Adidas,
and he took his brand ABCD with him, and then
Nike started the Nike All American Camp, which moved to Indianapolis.
So when I got home from ABCD camp before my
senior year. This was in Fairleigh Dickinson University, also known
as Fairly Ridiculous in t Neck, New Jersey, I kind
of the term as I blew up at the camp.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Right.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I had a really good camp.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And I went from a guy that I had like
an offer from Florida and Virginia to everyone offered me,
including Jim Calhoun and Yukon and Dave Hobbs was his
assistant and coach Hobbs is a great dude. He talked
to me, he was like, hey, man, we have we
have Kevin Ollie on the team right now, right, he's
a graduating senior. I think I think I think Kao
(27:12):
was a senior at that time. Maybe he'd already graduated.
I can't remember, but Ko had definitely had was referenced
in it. They had Deron Scheffer as well. I think
Kao had graduated and they had Deron Sheffer and they're like,
you can ask Ko about us and whatever. I'm gonna
put you on with Coach Calhoun, I guess that he was.
(27:32):
I couldn't understand a word he said, not a word.
And I was like, uh huh uh huh, yeah, you
come out, you play put God, you know, I need
a point got my team, Like I have no idea what.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
He's talking about.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Hey, thanks coach. And then Dave how Was picked up
the phone. He's like, all right, so you know, we
like to bring it out and a visit, you know,
and whatever. I was like, okay, thanks coach. Couldn't understand
a word he said, but I will tell you this,
he's an awesome coach. And when I called his games,
the media guys would have a bet on two things.
(28:10):
Uh would he sub before the first media timeout which
is four minutes? And who would it be and inevitably
it would happen, like a minute and a half into
the game. He's somebody who started, he got introduced to
the starting lineups. Then he'd screw up something he told him,
then out he would come. Couldn't understand a word he said.
(28:32):
In my first phone called Coach Calhoun and I did. Doug,
Duke's making the Suburbs. We're being in the city. So
he's telling me, Duke Suburbs. You'll never see anybody in
a city where a Duke Jersey. Let's get to the Midway.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
He's not getting the middle.
Speaker 6 (28:52):
It's time for the.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
Midway.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
The Midway, The Midway, The Midway, Midway, the Midway.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Jay Stu, what's your idea for the Midway? Here? You
want to do this? Greg Olsen thing right.
Speaker 7 (29:17):
I woke up this morning. I woke up to a thread.
Thread And I'm not talking about that that Facebook version
of Twitter that everyone said they were going to go
use and they never did, and I don't even know
exists anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Not they still it still exists, but it's all like
softcore and hardcore porn.
Speaker 7 (29:36):
Like doing it like yeah, oh, then I need to
check it out. Yea, so Twitter. I woke up to
a thread on Twitter from Doug Gottwig. Uh, you had
some time on your hands today, you were passionate about
this topic, so I figured, let's talk about it. You
saw or heard Greg Olsen say something on a podcast.
I think we have what he said, Chris.
Speaker 8 (29:57):
They're not really getting like the play by play exact
because it's happening so fast, right They're they're flowing from
offense to defense, from transition to foul inbounds, baseline out
of bounds. They're they're flowing through so many different situations
in real time that they're only diving into like the real,
real specifics of a great baseline out of bounds or
a great side out of bounds, or the strategy at
(30:19):
the end of the game of who to foul, who
to trap, how to get the ball out of their hand,
really in just like a handful of those moments. And
I find that super fascinating to like sit and learn
as just like a basketball fan. In football, it's a
start and stop. You know, one hundred and fifty times,
you know, one hundred and for each team, say has
the ball seventy times there are seventy offensive plays, seventy
defensive plays, and then flips. So there's just a million
(30:42):
different plays that you have to be prepared to explain.
If you're not playing competitive tackle football, you're not playing football,
Like you're not doing it on the weekends. Right, people
are just more accustomed to basketball and they're playing it.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
It's just more I just think it's more accessible.
Speaker 8 (31:00):
It's just more familiar with the ins and outs of
it because more people do it than they do play
tackle football.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Okay, that's actually wrong, that's actually wrong.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I believe My belief is more people think they know
of football because most guys play I like, I mean, look,
people play basketball and they still play it, but they
don't play real basketball, whereas they actually play real football,
albeit at a much lower level. Growing up played tackle
youth football. I played tackle football for eight years. Right now,
everybody plays flags. It's obviously very different. But you know,
(31:32):
like growing up who didn't play high school football or
junior high football, I would say a higher percentage played
than basketball, just based on sure numbers, but the idea
that ah, you know, they're just they're just commenting on plays, like, look,
the rhythm of it is different. But okay, so here's
(31:53):
the what's the do you want the could he do both?
Could a football guy do basketball? What's harder to do?
What do you want the topic to be?
Speaker 7 (32:00):
J Stut, I want the topic to be what made
you most interested to write a thread about this?
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, it's just it's really amazing what Greg doesn't know
considering how much he knows about broadcasting football.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
All right, that would be my.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It's what he got into is the rhythm of football
is different. But it's I mean, I've I haven't done both,
but I've done both. So I got there's a company
called Compass Media Networks. They're awesome, and I got to
call a couple of games and play by play, and
I can tell you one equivally. I've done play by
play for basketball. I'm a color analyst for basketball, but
(32:44):
I've done play by play football. Way easier NFL football,
especially because you only really have at that time forty
six guys, right, and you know, you call down distance
and formation and kind of all you gotta know is
the skill position players. It's a lot more exciting that's
in play by play, and then with analysis, you're having
(33:07):
a play and then a break and then a play
and then a break.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
So the rhythm is very different.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
What I think he got to was basketball, you don't
analyze every play.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
You have to pick and choose your spots. It's kind
of an art.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
But the idea that he could in any way provide
any sort of insight, it's kind of laughable, kind of laughable,
and it's super arrogant.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
That's how it landed on me. What about you? What
about you, Dan, Dan Byer, what do you think?
Speaker 6 (33:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 9 (33:42):
I agree with you, Like there's there's a major difference
between being able to do two things and to be
able to do two things well. And yeah, Greg Olsen
could get through an NBA game, would we have learned anything,
would we have done anything, or you know, have taken
anything away from it? I would say probably not. Probably
(34:03):
not in that realm, but because there's just a huge
difference of doing things and actually doing things well. The
one thing that I would say on his part comparing
being an analyst to football and basketball, which by the way,
is not a comparison on why football could do basketball.
Football has so many different things going on, where basketball,
(34:26):
I don't want to say that you're following the ball
a majority of the time. But I think that you are,
and if you're not, there are very I think there
are fewer instances where something off the ball is the
reason why the ball went into the basket.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
That fair, Doug, would you say?
Speaker 9 (34:42):
And whether it be it may not be just about
the shot or the dunk, could be about the pass,
could be about the pick, but very rarely does it
not have to do with how the basket was made
or missed.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I think, I really yes, and I look, I'll fully
admit there's plenty of people who call NBA in college
games that don't tell you the why, They just tell
you the what, And yeah, that bar is pretty low,
and I do think a lot of people could do that.
Speaker 9 (35:12):
And in the NFL, if you're just following the ball,
you're not seeing what's happening on the offensive line, you're
not seeing what's happening, you know, with the other maybe
three receivers that are on the route. That would make
it more difficult. I think in that essence to pick.
How am I going to analyze this? But by no
means doesn't mean that football can transition to basketball. It's
(35:36):
just I don't believe that that's the case.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I don't think so either.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
I think one of the things that Greg and I
don't know if he I know Greg a little bit
and I like him a lot, and I take him
to be a really good dude, a really good broadcaster,
but he has had so many people heat praise on him.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
This one felt a little bit like he's feeling himself.
I get it that.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
No, no, there's like one hundred plays in football, Like,
do you have any possessions that are in the NBA now.
Part of it also comes from the reality that most
guys who do games football and basketball don't actually do
it very well. Like I think stan Van Gunny does
a great job. I don't always love his delivery, but
he picks up on an adjustment made here or there.
(36:22):
A substitution is made for a purpose.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
You know. It's like you're watching and I think JJ
does a good job. Doris is I believe this.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
I think Doris is actually better when she did college
basketball men's college basketball, because I feel like she doesn't
want to extend herself to be wrong, like she's she's
kind of a conservative version of herself. Doris is really good.
She does see the entire game. She will drive for
(36:55):
my taste and she actually has a good personality. But
again I think that she's just a little close to
the vest because of the magnitude of the event where
I don't believe in that style. I'm just who you are.
That's how you got the job. But again that's probably
what's allowed her to climb faster than I could climb.
But the point is that I do think that one
(37:16):
thing we would all admit is there are plenty of
people doing it, and I don't think Greg is one
of these people that aren't very good at it. And
so those people, that's not a high bar to get to.
And those people, Dan, tell me if you like this,
those people are commentators, They make comments. I'm talking about
(37:37):
analysts and people who teach me something or show me
what I missed as to why something worked.
Speaker 9 (37:42):
Yes, yes, I am good with that. And it's why
the play by play is a different skill set. Yes,
why Kevin Harlan and Ein Eagle can go and do
football and basketball and do all those things because it
is a different skill set and what you need to
know and how you need to present that information.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Now equally, And here's the inside the beltway.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
And maybe this is too much for people. Maybe you
don't care.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Play by play is different than analysis, right, Radio is
different than TV.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
When you do radio, that is a play by play
man's game. You just get in when you can just
little nuggets, little lines. It is not your show. Now
as an analyst, it is your show. But you can't
and I told this to Dan Orlovsky, you can't show
off every play like Dani Rolofsky literally could diagram and
(38:34):
draw every single play and tell you what, why, how,
what went wrong, what went right. All those guys can,
the really really good ones can tell you all of
that stuff and they can process it super fast, but
the viewer can't process it.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
It's too much information.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
So you have to be much You have to have
the economy words, and you have to pick and choose
your spots.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
And the same is true for basketball.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Like I could diagram every play, I can tell you
exactly what why they ran it, when they ran it,
how they ran it, and what went right, what went wrong.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
But if you do that for.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
One hundred and ten possessions, it's annoying and nobody will
ever watch it. So but but I don't think people understand.
There's as you point out, there's difference in play by
play and color. There's a difference in radio at like,
for example, if you're calling a game on TV, you
don't have to say, as a play by play guy
that the shot went in, you know, and you don't
(39:26):
have to reference the score because there's a score bug
right there.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
You just don't.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
But that's where the the analyst, not the commentator. The
analyst's job is to tell you why. And it's really
hard when it's not your sport to tell somebody why somehow.
So that's what I gotta be passionate about it today, Chase too.
Speaker 7 (39:48):
Well, personally, my I I like the point you meant
about Dorisbrook by the way. I've never even thought about that,
and I think you're right. There's something there's no there
there with her, and there's nothing to do with her
being a woman. I think she too conservative.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Listen, Doris real, Doris is funny as hell. This is
I'll give you the real story. So the day, what
was the Space Shuttle? Not the Challengers when we were kids.
What was the other one that.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Blew up over Texas, Columbia? Was that Columbia?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, okay, she was calling a game that day. I
was getting ready to a game and she was calling
Boston College. You can look it up in terms of
days when that happened. I believe that was like the
last Saturday of college basketball, because I think it was
Troy Bell's last game in the Big East. These the
(40:38):
all time Big East, all time Leans score. I was
watching the Boston College game and my guy who hired me,
his guy named Dan Steer at ESPN, and Dan Steer
would teach us all like tell me the why, don't
tell me the what. And I'm watching it and I'd
never heard of Doris Burke before, and I called him
and I said, Dan, who's the woman doing the Austin
(41:00):
College game. He's like, her name is Doris Burke. She
played a Providence. I was like, she's fantastic, fantastic. I
was like, in terms of executing a broadcast, how she
executes the broadcast, when she gets in, when she gets out,
all of that stuff. What I've always thought she's missed.
It is like a little personality, a little there there.
But then you meet Doris and You're like, she's actually
(41:22):
very very funny. I just think that because she thinks
she's always being judged, especially now at this level and
she's already made it. Like, what's like the humor is
the personality off air does not match the personality on air.
Speaker 9 (41:38):
I mean, before Chris jumps in, I do want to
say one other thing about Doris Burke, because they made
such a big deal about her being the first woman
to call an NBA finals. I feel she's probably been
qualified to do that for the last five years. But
it's just for the chair to open up, you know,
in terms of of you know, it was a great,
great moment, but it was done on the decisions of
(42:01):
ESPN to give that moment.
Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yeah, okay, it's fair, but would you I mean, just honestly,
Mark Jackson and JVG or j J Reddick endorse perk.
Speaker 9 (42:14):
I am not a fan of Mark Jackson's analysis.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
I'm not.
Speaker 6 (42:18):
I'm not.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
I'm not either, but it works with Jeff Van Gundy
and Mike Britt.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
Sure, he's he's.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
He's Kenny Smith like Kenny Smith left to his own
kind of meanders, kind of wanders around Kenny Smith with
Barklay and Shack Gold and I think, and again, I'm
I'm the same, Mama, don't go den Man again, right,
Like it's a great analysis Mark.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
But it really works.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
It worked with Jeffy in my opinion, in my opinion,
so and that's the midway.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
The midway,
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