May 21, 2025 • 47 mins
On a Wednesday edition of The Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug breaks down game one of the Western Conference Finals between the Thunder and T-Wolves and explains how Shai Gilgeous-Alexander gets so many calls and free throw attempts and how that played into the game one win.
In this week's installment of The Midway, Doug and the crew discuss whether or not Hard Knocks has jumped the shark.
Acclaimed sports author Seth Wickersham joins Doug to discuss his upcoming book about quarterbacks and how the part about Caleb Williams has exploded.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
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Doug Gottlieb Show, Fuck Sports Radio. Coming to you from
(00:29):
I'm not gonna lie to you. Kind of cold today
in in Bay, Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's like summer. We'll we'll be spring. We'll be a spring.
We got a bunch to get to.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Also, of course, the boys are in Sherman Oaks, California.
You heard Dan Byer with the update. You'll hear him
throughout the show. My guy Jay stew my guy Iowa,
Big Apple, Sam or Sean or Steve, don't really know,
it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Let's move Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We'll talk some tush push. Also, we'll talk about Joe
Burrow doing what I think is a smart business some
people think is not. Seth Wickersham's going to join us
next hour. Of course, he wrote the new Book on
Quarterbacks right the American Kings. It's called American Kings Biography
(01:21):
of the Quarterback. Next hour we have Mark doll Is
going to join us. You're like, who this one is?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Near?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And dear, I think to Dan Byer's heart. The amateur
four ball Championship going on right now, and he lost yesterday,
but what he accomplished on his own is pretty unique,
pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
He'll join us.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Next hour, plus, we got more on North Carolina football
and Bill Belichick. So jam pack show. Let's start with
Game one Western Conference Finals. I can play for you, sound,
but let's just do this. Let's just have kind of
an open conversation about it. So I've been a head
coach for a year, okay.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
And.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm fully aware, like you don't have to remind me
of my team's record, and I understand. Imagine, by the way,
if you got the job right now, this is essentially
what happened, and you didn't have a lot of money.
Now you got to go to market and try and
find a team, it would be difficult. There's a school
in our league which fired their coach last week that's
(02:25):
going to have the same difficulty this year. And then
you factor in injuries and whatever, and probably your own
inadequacies as a young coach and a young staff and
things you didn't do, didn't do right, and overscheduling, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera. Okay, so these are no excuses
to you, they may be to me.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It's the reality of the biz. We lost.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I would say six games, six games where the competitive
balance of the officiating was completely out of whack that
no matter what we would have done, I felt like
we weren't getting what I would call a fair whistle,
and a fair whistle is not what was missing last night.
(03:16):
And what happens when you tweet out something like man,
just it feels like two different games being officiated one
end to the other. Is you get response tweets from
people or talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It, whatever they are.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
If you go and search my timeline and then you
click on whoever sent it to me, they live in
Oklahoma City, in Tulsa, in Norman, in Moore, in Edmund,
they are Oklahoma City fans. Everybody else saw essentially the
same thing, which is though the foul disparity is not
(03:49):
that great. And let's also be honest, Anthony Edwards did
not play particularly well. No points in the fourth quarter,
and the Minnesota Timberwolves seemed to shrink at times in
the moment. And you know, in the second half, I
thought chet Holmgren, especially in the fourth quarter, a couple
of cuts, a couple of tip dunks sort of became
(04:10):
another weapon. And obviously Shake Gildess Alexander's tremendous player. But
that was James Harden two point zero. That was ridiculous.
That was not basketball. And here's what I mean. It's
(04:30):
one thing if he drives in, throws his head back,
falls down, throws it up, and you call a foul
if at the other end that same variety of fowls
is being called. My biggest issue with officiating in one
year of coaching college basketball is not one call here,
in one call there. Oh you killed me with that call,
(04:51):
or you kill me with this call. It's that what's
a foul? There has to be a foul here. And
I understand that sometimes styles can dictate as well as
personnelity can dictate what's called a foul what's not called
a foul. And what Oklahoma City does defensively is they
(05:15):
put tremendous on ball pressure. But they are using their hands,
not just their body and look, that's okay if you're
going to allow the defenders to use their hands. The
problem with it is it's not allowed at the other end,
(05:36):
it's not allowed. Now, Shay is a different player than
Anthony Edwards. And what's also different is Oklahoma City is
playing deep and heavy into the gaps. The gaps are
if Mike Conley's on the right wing and uh, I
don't know, Jalen Williams or no, if Gildas Alexander is
(06:01):
guarding Mike Conley on the right wing and Alice Caruso
is guarding Anthony Edwards at the top of the key,
they are playing almost collegiate style help defense right they are.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It's called loading to the basketball.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So what happens is you'll get people and I've seen
it throughout ESPN, and all they do is they look
at the stats like, wow, Minnesota, all they did was
shoot threes. Oklahoma City drove the basketball. Oklahoma City gets
the fowls fairly accurate. Now, some of it comes from, Hey,
when you take one dribble to your right, right there
(06:39):
in help is Shay Gildas Alexander. You have to kick
it out and Mike Conley has to make a three.
Some of that is the defense determining what you take,
take the right shot, but some of it is the
fact that Oklahoma City is frankly, blatantly old school hand
checking and getting up into you, which is called a
foul in the regular season, not called a foul in
(07:01):
the postseason. At the other end, they're officiating it like
any other NBA regular season game. Or you can't touch
Shay Gildas Alexander because he's gonna throw his head back
or fall down, and they automatically call a foul.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It is two different games.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
And what you tell your players is, hey, you got
to adjust to the officiating, But it's really hard to
adjust when it's not one overall template for how the
game's being officiated. Instead, it's one game at one end
and one game at the other, and good, I'll grant you.
Something comes down to spacing, someone comes down to stylistically,
(07:38):
Oklahoma City is helping a great deal. It cuts off
some of that penetration, but a lot of it has
to do with, Hey, dude, are you gonna let us
put our hands on people tonight? If you are great,
we won't complain. But if you're gonna let them do it.
You gotta let us do it. And just because he
falls down does not make it means he gets the call.
And look, you're talking to somebody who goes to Oklahoma
City Thunder games, fan of everything that they do. Hey,
(08:02):
what happens is you'll get the oh you're a hater
or this shut up. Actually watch the game, have any
This is what was super frustrating. I told you, guys,
I'm in the stands in game seven and Yo, get
strives in spins around, gets Vould, gets thel.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Some guys like a free throw merchant.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And I just said, hey, that's like pot calling kettle
black Shay is the worst or the best, depending on
your perspective in the league at being a free throw merchant.
So and here's what will happen. They'll go on the
road and he won't get a call in games three
and four and three and four, and they come back
(08:41):
home in game five and then game six and usually
usually this is where the Denver series was different. Usually
in game seven it's a very evenly officiated game. It
was not in the last series. It was not last night.
There's no one who can tell me. And again, the
first half of the game I was passively watching. It
(09:02):
was at dinner with some friends. I came home, watched
the second half, and Shay woke up started playing, and
you know, and it'd be a snowball effect. But what's
interesting is and and some of it is Minnesota kind
of falling asleep and Oklahoma City getting away with a
little bit at the end end of the half was
like the end of the half of Denver Game seven,
where they get a couple of steals, get a couple
(09:23):
of layups, and they feel better about themselves going to halftime.
But I went back and watched the first half. It
was replayed today. I can't remember his NBA TV or
whatever I was watching. I was like, dude, it's two
different games, one end of the other. And there's there's
even videos out there out there of all the fouls
that Shay drew. And the fact that I think it
(09:43):
was like twelve or thirteen fouls that he drew and
like five of them feel like they're legit fowls. It's
just embarrassing. And I you know, we can say, well,
Jordan got calls and whatever. The difference in the Jordan
got calls and the Shay Gilds Alexander multitude things. One,
Michael Jordan was a multi time MVP. He's literally the
(10:05):
greatest player of all time. And yeah, you give him
the benefit of the doubt too. When he played against
the Detroit Pistons, they would try and hurt him with
multiple guys. Wasn't like it were touch foul here, touch
fowl there. Hey, he drove in to get contact and
he got hammered. Different sport, different game, and then three,
there wasn't the disparity of one end to the other,
(10:28):
feeling like there's a different template for how a game's
can be officiated like it is with Oklahoma City, and
what will happen is all my friends in Oklahoma list
is like, oh, dude, they're just a hater.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
You're are like, no, I'm not. I actually think they're awesome.
They got good culture, good depth, they moved to basketball.
I don't.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I don't think Shay is anywhere near the best player
in the league, even if he gets the you'll get
the MVP of the league, because he doesn't really make
everybody around him better. He's not a top level defender.
And you're like, you can tell me all you want
about Jokic and his defense at the rim. If you
(11:10):
watch him, he's unbelievably crafty at defending and trying to
not foul and defending the rim and using his body
and rebounding all the other things. But if you want
to make the argument that he's the most valuable player,
I would say yeah, because he scores. He gets the
other team in foul trouble, which helps take starters out
of the game. He can set kind of the tempo
(11:32):
to the game. He puts the other team in an
argumentative and defensive sort of position where they don't know
do I pressure him or do I play off of him?
Because if I pressure him, they'll call me for a foul.
If I play off of him, he's probably going to score.
So Shay has a tremendous amount of value to that team,
to that roster j nowt they play. I don't think
(11:53):
he's one of the top five players in the NBA,
and I think most people would probably agree with that.
But unbelievably valuable.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Last night.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
His ability to get to the free throw line and
to frustrate the opponent despite his inaccuracy shooting in the
first half, I thought was was the biggest reason to
Thunder won the game by your neutral bystander. You're just
a basketball fan like I am in this situation. What
(12:22):
did you see in last night's.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Game, Doug, I wasn't locked in as you were on
the game. It just felt like the Thunder made a run.
Shay Gilgess Alexander was extremely an extremely different player in
the second half as he was in the first half.
I thought it was interesting because Minnesota made it wasn't
(12:44):
a round, but they led for the pretty much the
entire first half, and there was a portion of it
without Anthony Edwards. And if you say to yourself, if
you're Minnesota at that point, even though it was like
a ten point game, and I think Oklahoma City closed
it to within about four at halftime, you have to say,
all right, well, we didn't have ant in the first half,
and Julius Randall really was playing well. We like our
(13:05):
chances in the second half, and then midway through the
third quarter there's this Oklahoma City run and then it
just kind of keeps going from there. Officiating wise, I
don't know if the NBA wants to make it a
seven game series, and felt that it or an extended
series and felt it wouldn't go that wave. Minnesota got
game one, but this is how Oklahoma City does things.
(13:27):
I'm curious to see on what their energy level is
in game two. I think that will be a big factor.
But now I thought chet Holmgren played well as size,
you know, causing issues. I just thought it was Oklahoma
City turning it on on the second half like they
normally do.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I just think that the big, the interesting part is
going to be in the you know, you're trying to
create the next wave of stars, right, Anthony Edwards couldn't
get anything going shake, Gellis Alzander couldn't until the second half.
But I do think we're creating a James Harden esque
(14:06):
sort of superstar where he is so widely, wildly dependent
upon the officials in order to make the plays that
he makes that it's going to and look, I understand
everybody hates everybody, right, That's the nature of what social
media has brought to sports, is that everybody hates everything.
(14:27):
But it was as a basketball guy. It was a
hard watch for a guy going in and you wouldn't
believe how many times he falls down, Like he just
falls down. It's one thing to get vould some things
just like fall down and throw the ball up and
you mentioned run like that's those runs are often the same.
He'll go in there and he'll get vowled twice in
a row, and then the guys are forced to like,
(14:48):
I guess I can't touch him, And now he's got
it rolling.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
The crowd's going crazy.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I Meanwhile, at the other end, they're allowed to do
whatever the hell they want, and you're like, well, what
are we supposed to do here? At the other end,
you could point out, hey, those are probably not really fouls.
But again, if you're going to call it, call the whistle.
You know, tight on drives, it sets that it just
changes the whole tenor of the game.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I do think that Minnesota's reliant or reliance on the three,
like in last night, that there just didn't seem to
be any interest at all in trying to go at
the baskets and would settle for what they have fifty
three point attempts last night, right, And that's why I.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Say, Okloda City loaded up the lane and really helped
and made them make shots.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
And they didn't make shots.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Sure, so no question, you know, if they're just launching
an Oklahoma City and she's getting his mid range shots.
I think that you can look at that and be like, oh, okay,
I see how it is. Minnesota is not going at
the basket. They're not and while while the thunder are.
I would say this though, in your point of SGA
versus Anthony Edwards, Anthony Edwards has it. SGA is great
(15:59):
and said he could win the m VP, but you
don't think he's a top five player in the league.
And that's completely fair in that point. But I don't
think that shay Gilgess Alexander is gonna be rising to
the level that Anthony Edwards could. I don't think that
he has it in what we're talking about. So he
maybe maybe he's in the James Harden group. Maybe maybe
(16:22):
that's the conversation that we end up having about SGA
and being how good he is. But like I think
Anthony Edwards has it that thing that very few players have.
I don't know if SGA has it, and maybe that's
what's frustrating.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Uh yeah, but it's interesting about it is I agree
with you in terms of personality. I agree with you
in terms of you know, like the movie that he
was in, the electricity that he creates based upon his
explosiveness going to the basket right like he does superstar
(16:57):
sort of stuff. But here's why I'll disagree with you.
Anthony Edwards was nowhere near, nor should he be anywhere
near the MVP discussion. And Shay's probably gonna win an MVP,
So you're right, only in terms of accomplishments. Shay will
be more accomplished as an individual player. And again, whoever
(17:18):
wins this series will have led their team to greater accomplishments.
And right now it's Oklham City up one game to none,
and Anthony Edwards did not.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Play particularly well. Didn't play particularly well.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yes, Chase two, coach, I got a question.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
There's a question that needs an answer, and the answer
is if only there was someone with the authority and
the wisdom to give us that answer.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
No, I'm the head coach.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I get to set the schedule.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Hold on, let's ask the coach Doug.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
When Anthony Edwards is at the press conference half afterwards
and he references AAU, what does he mean by this?
Speaker 7 (17:57):
Yeah, I mean harder process. Because he's right, it was different.
It was kind of it was different every time. I
mean heavy into gaps, sometimes trapp the ball screen sometimes
don't sometimes just run and jump. It's kind of similar
to like AAU. They remind me of like an AU
defensive team, just running jump, fly around. So it's pretty good.
(18:18):
Good to get it out our system in game one,
you know, so we'll be ready for a game two.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
So what he means, as a former AU coach, I
can tell you is it's they don't play traditional NBA defense, right,
traditional NBA defenses, you play man man. Your rotations, your
ball screen coverage are the only things that really change
team to team. But generally you don't put two on
the basketball. That means you don't trap the ball, you
don't run and jump. Run and jump is you know
(18:45):
you're playing man and man and somebody spin dribbles or
or you know, crosses over and if you're the closest guy,
you go trap the ball and everybody goes and rotates
around you, almost zones up around you. Those are kind
of AAU school. Sometimes you see it in college. It's
it's rare that teams play that way. So that's what
(19:05):
he meant by AAU sort of defense. And he's right
when he says heavy into the gaps, everybody sits there
and goes like, well all they did was show thres Well, yeah,
they every time Anthony Edwards strove, there was a second
guy there. He was making the right play, now, can you.
It's called stampeding. Stampede is when you kick it out
(19:28):
to a guy instead of shooting at three, he like
gets a running start and drives in again. Sure, uh,
but they're they're playing off of Anthony Edwards with shooters.
They were taking what the defense gave them, and he
was unable to get to the hoop. And that's because
I believe not just heavy in the gaps with help,
but a ton of hand checking on the basketball, which
(19:49):
which was taken out of the game like twenty years
ago and has only come back at times in the playoffs.
Only it only came back at one end of the
floor last night.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yes, was that an impression of me because five minutes
minutes ago I said as much that Minnesota shot fifty threes.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
No, that was that. No, that was post game I
saw some postgame stuff with people. Cool. Well they you know,
they they shot fifty threes, you know, just a bad
shoot Was it a bad shooting night? Was it was?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
It wasn't a bad shooting. I mean they hit fifteen
of them, you know, for for for what they they hit.
I just I think just in terms of how you're
calling calling a game, the optics of it. If if
you're taking what the defense gives you and they're just
giving you the threes and you're shooting those, then.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yes, yeah, you got to make a higher percentage. Was Iowa, Sean, Sam, Steve,
what do you got?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Okay? Okay, just checking, just checking.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
This is the best of the Done Dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Doug got Leap Show, Fox Sports Radio. We didn't ask
uh Mark Dole about Caddye Day right or Caddy Hour
as it was.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Gatty check.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Nice poll with the music there, I was, Sam. This
is the Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
You know we we love to do this on Wednesdays,
usually Wednesday's middle of the day, a middle of the week.
This is a middle of the day show. In the
middle of our actual show, we do something usually top
of the hour we call the midway.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It's not getting the middle it's time for Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
The midway is sometimes sports, sometimes not. Sort of just
a general discussion. I'll introduce you to the players in
the discussion. Of course, you know Dan Byer, you hear
him on the updates. He of course helped me out
with with Mark Dull. You have Jason Stewart, our steam producer.
Do you have Iowa Big Apple Sam who I called
(21:57):
Seawan a couple of days ago as well. So it
was announced earlier today that Hard Knocks is going to
feature the Bills.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
The Bills and now the in season.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Hard Knocks is the entire NFC East Okay. So the
question is has Hard Knocks jumped the shark? That's the question.
That's the question that the midway question. Let me let
me start with you, Jay stew because in addition to
(22:31):
and you will even admit, like I'm not the biggest
encyclopedia for sports, but in terms of TV, TV dramas,
reality shows that you ingest. Of course you have your
own podcast on the with your buddy on the on
the Bachelorette, the Bachelor lifestyle. What do you think about
the idea that hard Knocks to jump the shark?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
So the I think the answer is in the question.
If you have to ask if a shows jumped the shark,
I think it has. I'm going to give you the
reason and why over the past couple of seasons, do
you we even know who the subjects were for Hard Knocks?
Maybe maybe the Bears were a year ago. But the
reason why we don't really know is because there just
(23:13):
wasn't a whole lot of buzz. I mean Hard Knocks
to watch in a linear fashion, you know, every Monday
or whatever on HBO that's gone gone the way by
the wayside, right, We usually catched Hard Knocks through our
social media. This is how this coach told a player
that he wasn't gonna play anymore or whatever it's like.
(23:34):
But I just I don't remember any of the any
buzz from last season. And then I go back two
seasons and I think, who was even the subject two
seasons ago? And the same thing, same answer comes to
my mind. I so to judge whether or not a
show has jumped to shark. You talk about like it's
Q rating on social media, is it getting run? Is
(23:56):
it getting buzz? And it just isn't. And my guess
is if you watched every episode, it's been a watered
down product. The access has not been given. I think
the NFL and HBO has struck these has struck these
deals where they have to talk teams into doing it,
(24:17):
and as part of that negotiation, there's gonna be less
interesting access and that makes for a less interesting show.
So I just pulled I just pulled an Iowa Sam there,
and I gave you five answers and I probably took
a couple of yours. Dan, you have any any any.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Further thoughts, Jason Doug Sam.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I do agree with a lot of what Jason said,
and I will also add on to this. There is
so much football that that so an in season version
of it, which we're gonna have the NFC East, we
had the AFC North, last year, we had the Colts.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
One year.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Amazon did something with the Cardinals one year. I didn't
watch any of it. I watched about an episode or
maybe two of the Colts. But there was so much
football to consume that I don't also need to know
what's going on behind the scenes in season, and to
the point of the water down product of Hard Knocks,
(25:19):
because now we get so much football all over the
place everywhere, I'm not as dying to see the training
camp stuff if we're not gonna get the goods in
the dirt, and that's what I love the off season.
One was there were so many things that we didn't
know that went on, that were that was going on,
that that made that interesting. But if you're watering down
(25:43):
the product, I've got other ways to to, you know,
fix my football fix if you will.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Wow, I thought you were going in a different direction there.
I'm like that would that would have been out of
character of Fire. Would have been like, if you're gonna
water down a product, I've got something to water down.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I get you want to down right here? Hey over, yeah.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
I'll try to keep it class.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Ye I that wouldn't have been a buyer thing that
would that would have attracted I.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I don't think it's more watered down than it used
to be. I'm actually gonna side with Dan because how
to jump the shark, everyone wouldn't be doing it. What's
water down is many teams, and I don't know if
all teams, I haven't tracked all teams, but many teams
have their own in house version of hard Knocks, right,
(26:33):
and so because of it, it's like we're gonna let
somebody we can't control in our house to basically promote
our product. Why and when you have a lot of
these different options different shows. It doesn't have the same
residence of where you're the only one. Plus you do
get a lot of pushback to me, well, I don't
want to be on a hard knock, which is dumb.
(26:54):
There's never been a team that's on hard Knocks that
you didn't walk away going like, man, I like that coach, Man,
I like those players. You fall in love with the player,
you fall in love with the team. They become popular
in the preseason because of Hard Knocks. So I think
what's become watered down is the format of it more
so than the actual execution of it.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
On HBO, I remember when the Dolphins had to cut
Chad Ocho Sinko got.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
The incident with his wife or girlfriend.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Yeah, and Joe Filman they had to have this meeting
and it was just yeah, You're like, oh wow, this
is this, this is interesting. And instead, because there are
really like I don't know eight ten roster spots up
for grabs, you already know forty, you know forty of
the guys that are going to be on the team.
(27:45):
So in trying to find that Cinderella story, it's just.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Hit and miss.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I think the Lions got it with Malcolm Rodriguez a
couple of years ago. He ended up making the team Rodrigo,
remember that name. But there haven't been a lot of
those stories that have have cut through, and you need personality.
I think the Lions one work because Dan Campbell and
all the pieces that you had. I just don't I
(28:13):
don't know what they're gonna do. If this is gonna
be a Josh Allen love fest, is this is gonna
be look at Keon Coleman's quirkiness, or what they're gonna
do with the bills, But you got to make sure
these people are interesting.
Speaker 8 (28:27):
Sam, I'll be honest, I don't watch Hard Knocks. I've
never watched an episode before, and I'm even less inclined
to care about the last few seasons.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
So let me guess, Uh, you don't have Max, you
don't have the streaming service.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
That's correct, Yep, yep. I just listen again.
Speaker 8 (28:46):
If you guys are talking about a water down product,
if you're gonna do a reality type of show, you
have to have willing participants who are the ones being filmed.
And if you have a lot of NFL teams who
tend to be secretive and they're reluctant to do this,
You're yes, you're gonna get less and less actual drama.
You know, you're going to get a lot of just fluff.
And so I mean, it's never been a show that's
really interested me. And if it's going to be more
(29:08):
fluff now, then it's even less interesting to me.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
Which I would think.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Iowa, Sam is a much more college football fan than
he is an NFL fan, And so if you're not
being appealing to us as the NFL fans, I'm not
saying that. I'm not at all saying that we aren't
college football fans, because I think we're all big college
football fans. But and if you're not, then wedding the
appetite of someone who's like Sam, who's more interested in
(29:32):
college football, it's an interesting spot to be into the NFL.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I don't think it has anything to do with NFL
or college I think it's more human interest and I
can think one of the things that's changed.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Just to clarify my point is is that if we're
football heads and we're not watching, and Sam isn't like
a pro football head and he's not watching, then who
is watching. So if there's a lot of appealing to either.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Think, well, I do think more women are watching because
it is kind of a real show.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I'll tell you one thing that is missing.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
And here's where I will side with Jay stew because
the roster cutdowns are different than it used to be.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
It used to go from ninety to I forget what
the first cut was.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Yeah, like seventy five.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Right, and then there's another one and there's another one,
and it was like every week they.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Would I don't know, is this the week? Is this
the week? Is the week?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Whereas now it's just like all at once, they go
from ninety they go to like, it's not forty six,
it's like fifty four or something like that.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Fifty three. I think it's actually more than that. It's
like fifty eight.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
But yeah, you get down to your fifty three man roster.
It's just one big cut.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's just one big cut. It's it's not the same
build up.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So again I'm sort of agreeing with Jason, but mostly
disagreeing with them where it does have less drama than
he used to have.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I don't think it's the fault of the show.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I think part of it is there are other shows
that are very, very similar to many of them, and
of course they're run by in house. I do think
that there's at least a portion of the Hey, we don't,
but like last year, the Giants let us in on
their their whole off season. We heard conversations that we
never you'd think if the way we're talking about would
(31:15):
never hear on, but it was on off season hard Knocks.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
It was great.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
So again my answer is no, but I do think
that having only one roster cut down.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Changes And.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, I meantally referring to training camp, by the way,
training camp. I don't know if I've never watched during
season and then I heard nothing but good things about
off season. The training camp is the one that we
grew up watching and it just seems to be faded away. Well.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Also, remember they don't do two a days anymore, right,
It's like, what have they got not that hard knocks?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
You know, there is so much footage of scrimmage, not
scrimmage preseason. Yeah, preseason footage in that NFL films just
isn't the same when you have no stars. Nothing nobody
plays in the preseason anymore. I tuned into a Bears
episode a year ago and like half of it was
(32:13):
just like highlights from a preseason game with a bunch
of backups.
Speaker 6 (32:18):
That's just boring.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
This is true.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
We do we know any of the Bills to have
personalities here, Who's who's gonna be?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Well, they have they have some guys.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yeah, that's why I said, like Keon Coleman, you know,
the secondary receiver from Michigan State will be in the
Florida State as well, but he is gonna be he
will grab your attention. Josh Allen will be because of
the star factor.
Speaker 8 (32:46):
The young man they just drafted out of Kentucky. He's
gonna hold sure. Yeah, the rookie, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Damar Hamlin, I mean tomor Hamlin, who's not gonna call
that story?
Speaker 3 (32:55):
So if Cook is a hold out, that will be interesting,
right yeah, supos to hold out that could be.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Or hold in.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
The hold in is interesting, right, Like, well, you're here,
but you're not participating.
Speaker 6 (33:09):
I'm just here so I won't get fined.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I'm just here. What I won't get fine? Yeah exactly,
And that, my friends, is.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
The midway.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
The midway start Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Hey did
you hear this? So again, this is what I'm talking about.
There's just more and more series like this. Joe Burrow
turned down season one of the Netflix Quarterback series. He
explained yesterday why he chose to be a part of
season two.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Caught me on the right day. I guess, I know.
Speaker 9 (33:39):
I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be
good entertainment. Not necessarily the season that I wanted to
have in that spotlight, But you know, I think a
big part was Peyton being involved in it too.
Speaker 6 (33:56):
No, I have.
Speaker 9 (33:57):
A lot of respect for him, obviously, and what he
did does is as a person, so that guy reaches
out to you and asks you to do something, then
you know, most of the time I'm going to say, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
All right, there you go.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
So he did it because Peyton told Peyton's gonna do it,
I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Makes sense.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I thought it was interesting when and by the way,
on the heels of this conversation, as you said, Doug,
here's another program of behind the scenes stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (34:28):
Yep. So yep.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
He said it should be hard knoxious to be the
only one, and now it's just one.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
It's one of many, one of many.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
It's kind of like sports documentaries like what story had
the what story hasn't been done?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Oh? By the way, have you guys, have you guys
watched the far one?
Speaker 6 (34:46):
I did last night?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Good?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
How was it?
Speaker 4 (34:50):
I thought it was okay. I didn't think that it
was I didn't think that it was great. I don't
think that there were there were a few things that
were that we didn't know about that I thought was interesting.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
But give me one.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Just of of of the of the text exchanges that
he had with Jen Sturger and then she admits She's like,
after this whole time, I still have never met Brett Favre.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
That was interesting. She was a big big piece of this.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Is it an episode sonic win or is it just
an It's just just an hour long.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
She's a stand up comedian, now right, that's cool?
Speaker 6 (35:30):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
And then they do the they have the welfare stuff
in the Mississippi welfare situation at the end of it.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Did he come across how does he come across in
that situation?
Speaker 6 (35:41):
Not? Not well. He also refused to participate, So it
was just looks awful.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
A bunch of people that you know, had negative things
to say about Brett Faharv, which if that's the tough
to tough to defend a lot of the stuff that's
gone on, for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, I think again.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
My thing is, obviously, when you're trying to raise money,
did you know where that money was coming from?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Did he know? That's a big thing.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Did he know where that money was coming from?
Speaker 6 (36:14):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
He did.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation yet. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
App What Up Doug Gotlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I
love guys that multitask I am a multitasker, as many
of you know. Seth Wicker Shams, the sportstritter, acclaimed sports author.
He's author author of the new book American King's Biography
of the Quarterback, which is available now for pre order.
(36:44):
The book comes out in September. He joins us now
on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio, but
not not without mentioning that he just tweeted out some
inside information from the Tush push vote earlier today. Right, So,
I just saw a quote that you tweeted out. But
most of America is driving their car, they're at the cubicle.
(37:07):
They can't see it. What was the analogy that Jeffrey
Lorie used about the play.
Speaker 10 (37:13):
Hey, guys, good to see Good to talk to you again. Yeah,
some news coming at it today. You know, it was
a very heated Twust Push argument today in the league
meetings earlier, and I think, you know, Eagles owner Jeffrey
Lourie made an impassioned speech. It lasted close to an hour.
He spent a lot of time, you know, defending the
play and his team, and you know, I think he
(37:34):
thought that he had seen reports that the Tust Push
was going to be banned, and so I think he
felt that he needed to, you know, kind of throw
a hail Mary, and he made an analogy that kind
of fell flat where you know, he he he said that,
you know, it was like a wet dream for a
teenage boy quote to create a play that was so
(37:56):
successful that the only way for it to be stopped
was for it to be based and so yeah, so
you know, Troy Vincent, NFL executive vice president, later told him,
we thought that was completely insensitive, given that, you know,
there's a lot of people in the room, including women,
and obviously, you know, the Chuch Push ends up not
getting banned.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, it's really interesting. There was so much momentum for it.
It wasn't like he was even it was twenty two
to ten, but he needs twenty four votes in order
to go through. Okay, Seth, let's it's been I don't
know about a week week and a half since the
excerpts from your book were first released, and everyone talked
obviously about Caleb Williams. What's the fallout been in the league?
(38:43):
From Caleb at the time saying I want to go
to the Vikings and now he's a member of the Bears.
Speaker 10 (38:51):
Well, one of the funny things about when you do
a story for some reason, the first question people ask
is about like fallout or reaction, And not to sound
all very David, but the reaction has been me answering
questions about people asking me what the reaction has.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
You know, but but.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
You also but you also do wear two hats, right,
Like it's not like you write the book and I'm
just an author of that book and nothing else. You
also still report on the NFL, So I know people
are pulling you aside, going like I can't or whatever they're.
Speaker 10 (39:19):
Saying, Yeah, well, I mean I think that, like I
think that, like there was a lot of sort of
rumor and some reporting at the time that you know
that Kayla had some doubts about going to the Bears,
and then his dad definitely did. And so you know
what I tried to do was add what I could
on that reporting. And you know, I think his dad,
Carl wanted to give him one to find any way
(39:41):
possible to do what Jack and John Elway had done
and do what Archie and he like Manning had done,
and that was, you know, give his son some agency
over his future employer. It's not an unreasonable thing. And
the lead up to the draft, you know, they Karl
had told me, you know, Chicago's where quarterbacks go to die,
(40:02):
and he's not wrong. And so now Caleb, though, was
the one making the decisions. And so Caleb met with
the Bears at the combine. I think it was a
good meeting. It was fine. And then he also at
the combine met with Kevin O'Connell of the Minnesota Vikings.
(40:23):
And O'Connell, of course, is a four year starter at
San Diego State playing quarterback with Tom Brady a little
bit in the NFL, one of the been around some
of the best coaches in the NFL and is now
one of them himself, and they really got along well,
and I think he got Caleb energized and thinking like, man,
you know, could that be a possibility to play in Minnesota?
(40:43):
And he told his dad, I really I got to
go to Minnesota. But you know, the problem is the
draft is collectively bargained and even though Carl Williams had
spent the better part of a year trying to find
any way around it, talking to lawyers, Archie Manning, all
kinds of people, there really wasn't a way. And that
left them with one option, and that was to kind
(41:07):
of nuke the city and make the and the team
and make everything untenable. And you know, kind of what
John and Jack Elway did with the city of Baltimore
in eighty three. And at the end of the day,
Caleb was not willing, was not was not willing and
ready to do that. He didn't want to. He visited
with the Bears again, he enjoyed his time with them,
(41:27):
and he decided he wanted to make it work in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
This it wasn't a Caleb Williams book. I think that's
the most important thing that you not understand right, But
it again because the quotes and because he was in
a moon pick, and because of Poline Eli Manning. It's
become before people up a Caleb Williams book, Who's the
(41:54):
most Surprising.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Quarterback?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
In terms of the story, you feel like people will
learn about when they pick.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Up the book.
Speaker 10 (42:03):
Well, so, I mean, take keer zoom back. I mean,
what's fascinated about me about this this job? You know,
it's a very unique American job. It has very unique responsibilities.
It's unlike anything else in sports in almost every single way.
You know, a shortstop or a center fielder or a
point guard does not wear all of the hats and
quarterback wears from being the spokesperson of a multi billion
dollar organization to you Matt ma Idle to situational asshole,
(42:29):
like you know, there's all kinds of things, and you know,
I wanted to try to show what it takes to
do this and what kind of people are drawn to it.
It's again, it's just different, and so it's not a
history of the quarterback. But I did figure out and
try to look at like, you know, how did this
become so celebrated in our in our culture? And I
(42:50):
think that like, you know, some of the answers go
back to nineteen oh six. Some of them go back
to the nineteen forties with Bob Waterfield and Jane Russell.
Bob Waterfield when he was at UCLA and he was
dating Jane Russell, who at the time was the world's
biggest pin up star, ran in higher, more wafty American
circles than any college quarterback ever, more than Tim Tebile,
(43:13):
more than Caleb Williams, you name it.
Speaker 6 (43:14):
It was.
Speaker 10 (43:15):
I mean, he was hanging out with Sinatra as a
college senior. But most of all, I wanted to like
show in the realist way what it was like to
do this, whether it was through the eyes of Lway
or the Manning family and Archie Manning's recruitment, or Caleb
Williams in his journey or Steve Young, you know. So anyway,
(43:37):
there's a lot of those guys that come into play,
and there's other quarterbacks who kind of get their moment
on stage. But I think the thing that surprised me
the most is just how from the moment that really
like a man could throw spirals. This thing was celebrated
in America and in a very real way, even though
quarterback is huge now. It's like time as a flat circle.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
You also wrote the Brain Belichick book. Seth Bicker SAMs
our guest here on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox
Sports Radio. If I were to tell you, and you
were writing that book that Bill Belichick would be a
college coach and be engaged to a twenty four year
old who people believe is uh the puppet master behind
(44:23):
a lot of his media and social media things, what
would you have said.
Speaker 10 (44:31):
I would have said, let's talk when you're sober.
Speaker 9 (44:38):
Uh.
Speaker 10 (44:39):
Yeah, boy, you know I think that like since Belichick,
you know, since he opened the door for Tom Brady
to leave New England and Brady walked right out. You know,
it just it hasn't been a great run for him.
You know, he drafted Bertie's replacement in mac Jones, didn't
(45:00):
really work out, had some losing seasons there the end
of New England, had an awkward parting of ways with
Bob Kraft obviously, didn't get hired again in the NFL
and was out of the game for the first time,
out of the NFL for the first time since you know,
he was a senior at Wesleyan, and you know, venue
(45:23):
of this drama. I mean, I think that, like the
University of North Carolina when they made Bill Belichick the
state's highest paid public employee, they had to have been
thinking that at the minimum, what we are getting is
a low drama, buttoned up football operation. And since Belichick
(45:43):
has been there so far, we're not talking about any
of the players. We're not talking about how he's going
to scheme up defenses to slap around Dabos Swiney's offense.
What we're talking about with Bill is all of these
you know, side issues, and a lot of that falls
at his seed.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Seth.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
We're going to have you back when the book is out.
Remember this book, which you can pre order right now,
is called American Kings, a biography of the quarterback, and yes,
to Kayleb Williams part is part of it, but so
to his arch Manning, so to is many of the
other young quarterbacks. It'll come out in September. Seth, great stuff.
Love having you on.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 10 (46:24):
Thanks. Great talking to you man.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Likewise, let me get you to Dan Byer get a
quick breaking news update here on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 5 (46:33):
Breaking news from Fox Sports.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Oklahoma City thunder Guard Shay Giljess. Alexander is the NBA's
MVP for the twenty twenty four to twenty five season.
That's according to our report from ESPN.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yes, and when he goes up to grab the MVP,
if anybody gets in his way at all, we know
it's going to be an animal. Oh what, that's the
third Oklahoma City Thunder player to get the MVP.
Speaker 6 (47:01):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Third player to get the MVP?
Speaker 6 (47:04):
Durant, West Westbrook and SGA.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, it's interesting. I heard stephen A say that Sam
Presty was a failure because they haven't won a championship
despite all the players. It's it's I mean, I greatly
disagree with it, but it actually is a discussion.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
It is like, okay, it is a discussion.
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
boxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR Booming Up America.
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fuck Sports Radio. Coming to you from
(00:29):
I'm not gonna lie to you. Kind of cold today
in in Bay, Wisconsin.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's like summer. We'll we'll be spring. We'll be a spring.
We got a bunch to get to.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Also, of course, the boys are in Sherman Oaks, California.
You heard Dan Byer with the update. You'll hear him
throughout the show. My guy Jay stew my guy Iowa,
Big Apple, Sam or Sean or Steve, don't really know,
it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Let's move Let's move on.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We'll talk some tush push. Also, we'll talk about Joe
Burrow doing what I think is a smart business some
people think is not. Seth Wickersham's going to join us
next hour. Of course, he wrote the new Book on
Quarterbacks right the American Kings. It's called American Kings Biography
(01:21):
of the Quarterback. Next hour we have Mark doll Is
going to join us. You're like, who this one is?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Near?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And dear, I think to Dan Byer's heart. The amateur
four ball Championship going on right now, and he lost yesterday,
but what he accomplished on his own is pretty unique,
pretty remarkable.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
He'll join us.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Next hour, plus, we got more on North Carolina football
and Bill Belichick. So jam pack show. Let's start with
Game one Western Conference Finals. I can play for you, sound,
but let's just do this. Let's just have kind of
an open conversation about it. So I've been a head
coach for a year, okay.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
And.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I'm fully aware, like you don't have to remind me
of my team's record, and I understand. Imagine, by the way,
if you got the job right now, this is essentially
what happened, and you didn't have a lot of money.
Now you got to go to market and try and
find a team, it would be difficult. There's a school
in our league which fired their coach last week that's
(02:25):
going to have the same difficulty this year. And then
you factor in injuries and whatever, and probably your own
inadequacies as a young coach and a young staff and
things you didn't do, didn't do right, and overscheduling, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera. Okay, so these are no excuses
to you, they may be to me.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It's the reality of the biz. We lost.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
I would say six games, six games where the competitive
balance of the officiating was completely out of whack that
no matter what we would have done, I felt like
we weren't getting what I would call a fair whistle,
and a fair whistle is not what was missing last night.
(03:16):
And what happens when you tweet out something like man,
just it feels like two different games being officiated one
end to the other. Is you get response tweets from
people or talking about.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
It, whatever they are.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
If you go and search my timeline and then you
click on whoever sent it to me, they live in
Oklahoma City, in Tulsa, in Norman, in Moore, in Edmund,
they are Oklahoma City fans. Everybody else saw essentially the
same thing, which is though the foul disparity is not
(03:49):
that great. And let's also be honest, Anthony Edwards did
not play particularly well. No points in the fourth quarter,
and the Minnesota Timberwolves seemed to shrink at times in
the moment. And you know, in the second half, I
thought chet Holmgren, especially in the fourth quarter, a couple
of cuts, a couple of tip dunks sort of became
(04:10):
another weapon. And obviously Shake Gildess Alexander's tremendous player. But
that was James Harden two point zero. That was ridiculous.
That was not basketball. And here's what I mean. It's
(04:30):
one thing if he drives in, throws his head back,
falls down, throws it up, and you call a foul
if at the other end that same variety of fowls
is being called. My biggest issue with officiating in one
year of coaching college basketball is not one call here,
in one call there. Oh you killed me with that call,
(04:51):
or you kill me with this call. It's that what's
a foul? There has to be a foul here. And
I understand that sometimes styles can dictate as well as
personnelity can dictate what's called a foul what's not called
a foul. And what Oklahoma City does defensively is they
(05:15):
put tremendous on ball pressure. But they are using their hands,
not just their body and look, that's okay if you're
going to allow the defenders to use their hands. The
problem with it is it's not allowed at the other end,
(05:36):
it's not allowed. Now, Shay is a different player than
Anthony Edwards. And what's also different is Oklahoma City is
playing deep and heavy into the gaps. The gaps are
if Mike Conley's on the right wing and uh, I
don't know, Jalen Williams or no, if Gildas Alexander is
(06:01):
guarding Mike Conley on the right wing and Alice Caruso
is guarding Anthony Edwards at the top of the key,
they are playing almost collegiate style help defense right they are.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It's called loading to the basketball.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So what happens is you'll get people and I've seen
it throughout ESPN, and all they do is they look
at the stats like, wow, Minnesota, all they did was
shoot threes. Oklahoma City drove the basketball. Oklahoma City gets
the fowls fairly accurate. Now, some of it comes from, Hey,
when you take one dribble to your right, right there
(06:39):
in help is Shay Gildas Alexander. You have to kick
it out and Mike Conley has to make a three.
Some of that is the defense determining what you take,
take the right shot, but some of it is the
fact that Oklahoma City is frankly, blatantly old school hand
checking and getting up into you, which is called a
foul in the regular season, not called a foul in
(07:01):
the postseason. At the other end, they're officiating it like
any other NBA regular season game. Or you can't touch
Shay Gildas Alexander because he's gonna throw his head back
or fall down, and they automatically call a foul.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
It is two different games.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
And what you tell your players is, hey, you got
to adjust to the officiating, But it's really hard to
adjust when it's not one overall template for how the
game's being officiated. Instead, it's one game at one end
and one game at the other, and good, I'll grant you.
Something comes down to spacing, someone comes down to stylistically,
(07:38):
Oklahoma City is helping a great deal. It cuts off
some of that penetration, but a lot of it has
to do with, Hey, dude, are you gonna let us
put our hands on people tonight? If you are great,
we won't complain. But if you're gonna let them do it.
You gotta let us do it. And just because he
falls down does not make it means he gets the call.
And look, you're talking to somebody who goes to Oklahoma
City Thunder games, fan of everything that they do. Hey,
(08:02):
what happens is you'll get the oh you're a hater
or this shut up. Actually watch the game, have any
This is what was super frustrating. I told you, guys,
I'm in the stands in game seven and Yo, get
strives in spins around, gets Vould, gets thel.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Some guys like a free throw merchant.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And I just said, hey, that's like pot calling kettle
black Shay is the worst or the best, depending on
your perspective in the league at being a free throw merchant.
So and here's what will happen. They'll go on the
road and he won't get a call in games three
and four and three and four, and they come back
(08:41):
home in game five and then game six and usually
usually this is where the Denver series was different. Usually
in game seven it's a very evenly officiated game. It
was not in the last series. It was not last night.
There's no one who can tell me. And again, the
first half of the game I was passively watching. It
(09:02):
was at dinner with some friends. I came home, watched
the second half, and Shay woke up started playing, and
you know, and it'd be a snowball effect. But what's
interesting is and and some of it is Minnesota kind
of falling asleep and Oklahoma City getting away with a
little bit at the end end of the half was
like the end of the half of Denver Game seven,
where they get a couple of steals, get a couple
(09:23):
of layups, and they feel better about themselves going to halftime.
But I went back and watched the first half. It
was replayed today. I can't remember his NBA TV or
whatever I was watching. I was like, dude, it's two
different games, one end of the other. And there's there's
even videos out there out there of all the fouls
that Shay drew. And the fact that I think it
(09:43):
was like twelve or thirteen fouls that he drew and
like five of them feel like they're legit fowls. It's
just embarrassing. And I you know, we can say, well,
Jordan got calls and whatever. The difference in the Jordan
got calls and the Shay Gilds Alexander multitude things. One,
Michael Jordan was a multi time MVP. He's literally the
(10:05):
greatest player of all time. And yeah, you give him
the benefit of the doubt too. When he played against
the Detroit Pistons, they would try and hurt him with
multiple guys. Wasn't like it were touch foul here, touch
fowl there. Hey, he drove in to get contact and
he got hammered. Different sport, different game, and then three,
there wasn't the disparity of one end to the other,
(10:28):
feeling like there's a different template for how a game's
can be officiated like it is with Oklahoma City, and
what will happen is all my friends in Oklahoma list
is like, oh, dude, they're just a hater.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
You're are like, no, I'm not. I actually think they're awesome.
They got good culture, good depth, they moved to basketball.
I don't.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
I don't think Shay is anywhere near the best player
in the league, even if he gets the you'll get
the MVP of the league, because he doesn't really make
everybody around him better. He's not a top level defender.
And you're like, you can tell me all you want
about Jokic and his defense at the rim. If you
(11:10):
watch him, he's unbelievably crafty at defending and trying to
not foul and defending the rim and using his body
and rebounding all the other things. But if you want
to make the argument that he's the most valuable player,
I would say yeah, because he scores. He gets the
other team in foul trouble, which helps take starters out
of the game. He can set kind of the tempo
(11:32):
to the game. He puts the other team in an
argumentative and defensive sort of position where they don't know
do I pressure him or do I play off of him?
Because if I pressure him, they'll call me for a foul.
If I play off of him, he's probably going to score.
So Shay has a tremendous amount of value to that team,
to that roster j nowt they play. I don't think
(11:53):
he's one of the top five players in the NBA,
and I think most people would probably agree with that.
But unbelievably valuable.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Last night.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
His ability to get to the free throw line and
to frustrate the opponent despite his inaccuracy shooting in the
first half, I thought was was the biggest reason to
Thunder won the game by your neutral bystander. You're just
a basketball fan like I am in this situation. What
(12:22):
did you see in last night's.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Game, Doug, I wasn't locked in as you were on
the game. It just felt like the Thunder made a run.
Shay Gilgess Alexander was extremely an extremely different player in
the second half as he was in the first half.
I thought it was interesting because Minnesota made it wasn't
(12:44):
a round, but they led for the pretty much the
entire first half, and there was a portion of it
without Anthony Edwards. And if you say to yourself, if
you're Minnesota at that point, even though it was like
a ten point game, and I think Oklahoma City closed
it to within about four at halftime, you have to say,
all right, well, we didn't have ant in the first half,
and Julius Randall really was playing well. We like our
(13:05):
chances in the second half, and then midway through the
third quarter there's this Oklahoma City run and then it
just kind of keeps going from there. Officiating wise, I
don't know if the NBA wants to make it a
seven game series, and felt that it or an extended
series and felt it wouldn't go that wave. Minnesota got
game one, but this is how Oklahoma City does things.
(13:27):
I'm curious to see on what their energy level is
in game two. I think that will be a big factor.
But now I thought chet Holmgren played well as size,
you know, causing issues. I just thought it was Oklahoma
City turning it on on the second half like they
normally do.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I just think that the big, the interesting part is
going to be in the you know, you're trying to
create the next wave of stars, right, Anthony Edwards couldn't
get anything going shake, Gellis Alzander couldn't until the second half.
But I do think we're creating a James Harden esque
(14:06):
sort of superstar where he is so widely, wildly dependent
upon the officials in order to make the plays that
he makes that it's going to and look, I understand
everybody hates everybody, right, That's the nature of what social
media has brought to sports, is that everybody hates everything.
(14:27):
But it was as a basketball guy. It was a
hard watch for a guy going in and you wouldn't
believe how many times he falls down, Like he just
falls down. It's one thing to get vould some things
just like fall down and throw the ball up and
you mentioned run like that's those runs are often the same.
He'll go in there and he'll get vowled twice in
a row, and then the guys are forced to like,
(14:48):
I guess I can't touch him, And now he's got
it rolling.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
The crowd's going crazy.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
I Meanwhile, at the other end, they're allowed to do
whatever the hell they want, and you're like, well, what
are we supposed to do here? At the other end,
you could point out, hey, those are probably not really fouls.
But again, if you're going to call it, call the whistle.
You know, tight on drives, it sets that it just
changes the whole tenor of the game.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
I do think that Minnesota's reliant or reliance on the three,
like in last night, that there just didn't seem to
be any interest at all in trying to go at
the baskets and would settle for what they have fifty
three point attempts last night, right, And that's why I.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Say, Okloda City loaded up the lane and really helped
and made them make shots.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
And they didn't make shots.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Sure, so no question, you know, if they're just launching
an Oklahoma City and she's getting his mid range shots.
I think that you can look at that and be like, oh, okay,
I see how it is. Minnesota is not going at
the basket. They're not and while while the thunder are.
I would say this though, in your point of SGA
versus Anthony Edwards, Anthony Edwards has it. SGA is great
(15:59):
and said he could win the m VP, but you
don't think he's a top five player in the league.
And that's completely fair in that point. But I don't
think that shay Gilgess Alexander is gonna be rising to
the level that Anthony Edwards could. I don't think that
he has it in what we're talking about. So he
maybe maybe he's in the James Harden group. Maybe maybe
(16:22):
that's the conversation that we end up having about SGA
and being how good he is. But like I think
Anthony Edwards has it that thing that very few players have.
I don't know if SGA has it, and maybe that's
what's frustrating.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Uh yeah, but it's interesting about it is I agree
with you in terms of personality. I agree with you
in terms of you know, like the movie that he
was in, the electricity that he creates based upon his
explosiveness going to the basket right like he does superstar
(16:57):
sort of stuff. But here's why I'll disagree with you.
Anthony Edwards was nowhere near, nor should he be anywhere
near the MVP discussion. And Shay's probably gonna win an MVP,
So you're right, only in terms of accomplishments. Shay will
be more accomplished as an individual player. And again, whoever
(17:18):
wins this series will have led their team to greater accomplishments.
And right now it's Oklham City up one game to none,
and Anthony Edwards did not.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Play particularly well. Didn't play particularly well.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yes, Chase two, coach, I got a question.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
There's a question that needs an answer, and the answer
is if only there was someone with the authority and
the wisdom to give us that answer.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
No, I'm the head coach.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
I get to set the schedule.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
Hold on, let's ask the coach Doug.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
When Anthony Edwards is at the press conference half afterwards
and he references AAU, what does he mean by this?
Speaker 7 (17:57):
Yeah, I mean harder process. Because he's right, it was different.
It was kind of it was different every time. I
mean heavy into gaps, sometimes trapp the ball screen sometimes
don't sometimes just run and jump. It's kind of similar
to like AAU. They remind me of like an AU
defensive team, just running jump, fly around. So it's pretty good.
(18:18):
Good to get it out our system in game one,
you know, so we'll be ready for a game two.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
So what he means, as a former AU coach, I
can tell you is it's they don't play traditional NBA defense, right,
traditional NBA defenses, you play man man. Your rotations, your
ball screen coverage are the only things that really change
team to team. But generally you don't put two on
the basketball. That means you don't trap the ball, you
don't run and jump. Run and jump is you know
(18:45):
you're playing man and man and somebody spin dribbles or
or you know, crosses over and if you're the closest guy,
you go trap the ball and everybody goes and rotates
around you, almost zones up around you. Those are kind
of AAU school. Sometimes you see it in college. It's
it's rare that teams play that way. So that's what
(19:05):
he meant by AAU sort of defense. And he's right
when he says heavy into the gaps, everybody sits there
and goes like, well all they did was show thres Well, yeah,
they every time Anthony Edwards strove, there was a second
guy there. He was making the right play, now, can you.
It's called stampeding. Stampede is when you kick it out
(19:28):
to a guy instead of shooting at three, he like
gets a running start and drives in again. Sure, uh,
but they're they're playing off of Anthony Edwards with shooters.
They were taking what the defense gave them, and he
was unable to get to the hoop. And that's because
I believe not just heavy in the gaps with help,
but a ton of hand checking on the basketball, which
(19:49):
which was taken out of the game like twenty years
ago and has only come back at times in the playoffs.
Only it only came back at one end of the
floor last night.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yes, was that an impression of me because five minutes
minutes ago I said as much that Minnesota shot fifty threes.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
No, that was that. No, that was post game I
saw some postgame stuff with people. Cool. Well they you know,
they they shot fifty threes, you know, just a bad
shoot Was it a bad shooting night? Was it was?
Speaker 4 (20:17):
It wasn't a bad shooting. I mean they hit fifteen
of them, you know, for for for what they they hit.
I just I think just in terms of how you're
calling calling a game, the optics of it. If if
you're taking what the defense gives you and they're just
giving you the threes and you're shooting those, then.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yes, yeah, you got to make a higher percentage. Was Iowa, Sean, Sam, Steve,
what do you got?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Okay? Okay, just checking, just checking.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
This is the best of the Done Dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Doug got Leap Show, Fox Sports Radio. We didn't ask
uh Mark Dole about Caddye Day right or Caddy Hour
as it was.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Gatty check.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Nice poll with the music there, I was, Sam. This
is the Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
You know we we love to do this on Wednesdays,
usually Wednesday's middle of the day, a middle of the week.
This is a middle of the day show. In the
middle of our actual show, we do something usually top
of the hour we call the midway.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It's not getting the middle it's time for Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
The midway is sometimes sports, sometimes not. Sort of just
a general discussion. I'll introduce you to the players in
the discussion. Of course, you know Dan Byer, you hear
him on the updates. He of course helped me out
with with Mark Dull. You have Jason Stewart, our steam producer.
Do you have Iowa Big Apple Sam who I called
(21:57):
Seawan a couple of days ago as well. So it
was announced earlier today that Hard Knocks is going to
feature the Bills.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
The Bills and now the in season.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Hard Knocks is the entire NFC East Okay. So the
question is has Hard Knocks jumped the shark? That's the question.
That's the question that the midway question. Let me let
me start with you, Jay stew because in addition to
(22:31):
and you will even admit, like I'm not the biggest
encyclopedia for sports, but in terms of TV, TV dramas,
reality shows that you ingest. Of course you have your
own podcast on the with your buddy on the on
the Bachelorette, the Bachelor lifestyle. What do you think about
the idea that hard Knocks to jump the shark?
Speaker 3 (22:51):
So the I think the answer is in the question.
If you have to ask if a shows jumped the shark,
I think it has. I'm going to give you the
reason and why over the past couple of seasons, do
you we even know who the subjects were for Hard Knocks?
Maybe maybe the Bears were a year ago. But the
reason why we don't really know is because there just
(23:13):
wasn't a whole lot of buzz. I mean Hard Knocks
to watch in a linear fashion, you know, every Monday
or whatever on HBO that's gone gone the way by
the wayside, right, We usually catched Hard Knocks through our
social media. This is how this coach told a player
that he wasn't gonna play anymore or whatever it's like.
(23:34):
But I just I don't remember any of the any
buzz from last season. And then I go back two
seasons and I think, who was even the subject two
seasons ago? And the same thing, same answer comes to
my mind. I so to judge whether or not a
show has jumped to shark. You talk about like it's
Q rating on social media, is it getting run? Is
(23:56):
it getting buzz? And it just isn't. And my guess
is if you watched every episode, it's been a watered
down product. The access has not been given. I think
the NFL and HBO has struck these has struck these
deals where they have to talk teams into doing it,
(24:17):
and as part of that negotiation, there's gonna be less
interesting access and that makes for a less interesting show.
So I just pulled I just pulled an Iowa Sam there,
and I gave you five answers and I probably took
a couple of yours. Dan, you have any any any.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Further thoughts, Jason Doug Sam.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I do agree with a lot of what Jason said,
and I will also add on to this. There is
so much football that that so an in season version
of it, which we're gonna have the NFC East, we
had the AFC North, last year, we had the Colts.
Speaker 6 (24:56):
One year.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
Amazon did something with the Cardinals one year. I didn't
watch any of it. I watched about an episode or
maybe two of the Colts. But there was so much
football to consume that I don't also need to know
what's going on behind the scenes in season, and to
the point of the water down product of Hard Knocks,
(25:19):
because now we get so much football all over the
place everywhere, I'm not as dying to see the training
camp stuff if we're not gonna get the goods in
the dirt, and that's what I love the off season.
One was there were so many things that we didn't
know that went on, that were that was going on,
that that made that interesting. But if you're watering down
(25:43):
the product, I've got other ways to to, you know,
fix my football fix if you will.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Wow, I thought you were going in a different direction there.
I'm like that would that would have been out of
character of Fire. Would have been like, if you're gonna
water down a product, I've got something to water down.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
I get you want to down right here? Hey over, yeah.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
I'll try to keep it class.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Ye I that wouldn't have been a buyer thing that
would that would have attracted I.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I don't think it's more watered down than it used
to be. I'm actually gonna side with Dan because how
to jump the shark, everyone wouldn't be doing it. What's
water down is many teams, and I don't know if
all teams, I haven't tracked all teams, but many teams
have their own in house version of hard Knocks, right,
(26:33):
and so because of it, it's like we're gonna let
somebody we can't control in our house to basically promote
our product. Why and when you have a lot of
these different options different shows. It doesn't have the same
residence of where you're the only one. Plus you do
get a lot of pushback to me, well, I don't
want to be on a hard knock, which is dumb.
(26:54):
There's never been a team that's on hard Knocks that
you didn't walk away going like, man, I like that coach, Man,
I like those players. You fall in love with the player,
you fall in love with the team. They become popular
in the preseason because of Hard Knocks. So I think
what's become watered down is the format of it more
so than the actual execution of it.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
On HBO, I remember when the Dolphins had to cut
Chad Ocho Sinko got.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
The incident with his wife or girlfriend.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
Yeah, and Joe Filman they had to have this meeting
and it was just yeah, You're like, oh wow, this
is this, this is interesting. And instead, because there are
really like I don't know eight ten roster spots up
for grabs, you already know forty, you know forty of
the guys that are going to be on the team.
(27:45):
So in trying to find that Cinderella story, it's just.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Hit and miss.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
I think the Lions got it with Malcolm Rodriguez a
couple of years ago. He ended up making the team Rodrigo,
remember that name. But there haven't been a lot of
those stories that have have cut through, and you need personality.
I think the Lions one work because Dan Campbell and
all the pieces that you had. I just don't I
(28:13):
don't know what they're gonna do. If this is gonna
be a Josh Allen love fest, is this is gonna
be look at Keon Coleman's quirkiness, or what they're gonna
do with the bills, But you got to make sure
these people are interesting.
Speaker 8 (28:27):
Sam, I'll be honest, I don't watch Hard Knocks. I've
never watched an episode before, and I'm even less inclined
to care about the last few seasons.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
So let me guess, Uh, you don't have Max, you
don't have the streaming service.
Speaker 6 (28:42):
That's correct, Yep, yep. I just listen again.
Speaker 8 (28:46):
If you guys are talking about a water down product,
if you're gonna do a reality type of show, you
have to have willing participants who are the ones being filmed.
And if you have a lot of NFL teams who
tend to be secretive and they're reluctant to do this,
You're yes, you're gonna get less and less actual drama.
You know, you're going to get a lot of just fluff.
And so I mean, it's never been a show that's
really interested me. And if it's going to be more
(29:08):
fluff now, then it's even less interesting to me.
Speaker 6 (29:11):
Which I would think.
Speaker 4 (29:12):
Iowa, Sam is a much more college football fan than
he is an NFL fan, And so if you're not
being appealing to us as the NFL fans, I'm not
saying that. I'm not at all saying that we aren't
college football fans, because I think we're all big college
football fans. But and if you're not, then wedding the
appetite of someone who's like Sam, who's more interested in
(29:32):
college football, it's an interesting spot to be into the NFL.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I don't think it has anything to do with NFL
or college I think it's more human interest and I
can think one of the things that's changed.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Just to clarify my point is is that if we're
football heads and we're not watching, and Sam isn't like
a pro football head and he's not watching, then who
is watching. So if there's a lot of appealing to either.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Think, well, I do think more women are watching because
it is kind of a real show.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I'll tell you one thing that is missing.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
And here's where I will side with Jay stew because
the roster cutdowns are different than it used to be.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
It used to go from ninety to I forget what
the first cut was.
Speaker 6 (30:16):
Yeah, like seventy five.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Right, and then there's another one and there's another one,
and it was like every week they.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Would I don't know, is this the week? Is this
the week? Is the week?
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Whereas now it's just like all at once, they go
from ninety they go to like, it's not forty six,
it's like fifty four or something like that.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Fifty three. I think it's actually more than that. It's
like fifty eight.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
But yeah, you get down to your fifty three man roster.
It's just one big cut.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It's just one big cut. It's it's not the same
build up.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
So again I'm sort of agreeing with Jason, but mostly
disagreeing with them where it does have less drama than
he used to have.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
I don't think it's the fault of the show.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
I think part of it is there are other shows
that are very, very similar to many of them, and
of course they're run by in house. I do think
that there's at least a portion of the Hey, we don't,
but like last year, the Giants let us in on
their their whole off season. We heard conversations that we
never you'd think if the way we're talking about would
(31:15):
never hear on, but it was on off season hard Knocks.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
It was great.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
So again my answer is no, but I do think
that having only one roster cut down.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Changes And.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, I meantally referring to training camp, by the way,
training camp. I don't know if I've never watched during
season and then I heard nothing but good things about
off season. The training camp is the one that we
grew up watching and it just seems to be faded away. Well.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Also, remember they don't do two a days anymore, right,
It's like, what have they got not that hard knocks?
Speaker 3 (31:51):
You know, there is so much footage of scrimmage, not
scrimmage preseason. Yeah, preseason footage in that NFL films just
isn't the same when you have no stars. Nothing nobody
plays in the preseason anymore. I tuned into a Bears
episode a year ago and like half of it was
(32:13):
just like highlights from a preseason game with a bunch
of backups.
Speaker 6 (32:18):
That's just boring.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
This is true.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
We do we know any of the Bills to have
personalities here, Who's who's gonna be?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Well, they have they have some guys.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yeah, that's why I said, like Keon Coleman, you know,
the secondary receiver from Michigan State will be in the
Florida State as well, but he is gonna be he
will grab your attention. Josh Allen will be because of
the star factor.
Speaker 8 (32:46):
The young man they just drafted out of Kentucky. He's
gonna hold sure. Yeah, the rookie, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Damar Hamlin, I mean tomor Hamlin, who's not gonna call
that story?
Speaker 3 (32:55):
So if Cook is a hold out, that will be interesting,
right yeah, supos to hold out that could be.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Or hold in.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
The hold in is interesting, right, Like, well, you're here,
but you're not participating.
Speaker 6 (33:09):
I'm just here so I won't get fined.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
I'm just here. What I won't get fine? Yeah exactly,
And that, my friends, is.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
The midway.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
The midway start Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Hey did
you hear this? So again, this is what I'm talking about.
There's just more and more series like this. Joe Burrow
turned down season one of the Netflix Quarterback series. He
explained yesterday why he chose to be a part of
season two.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Caught me on the right day. I guess, I know.
Speaker 9 (33:39):
I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be
good entertainment. Not necessarily the season that I wanted to
have in that spotlight, But you know, I think a
big part was Peyton being involved in it too.
Speaker 6 (33:56):
No, I have.
Speaker 9 (33:57):
A lot of respect for him, obviously, and what he
did does is as a person, so that guy reaches
out to you and asks you to do something, then
you know, most of the time I'm going to say, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
All right, there you go.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
So he did it because Peyton told Peyton's gonna do it,
I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Makes sense.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
I thought it was interesting when and by the way,
on the heels of this conversation, as you said, Doug,
here's another program of behind the scenes stuff.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 6 (34:28):
Yep. So yep.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
He said it should be hard knoxious to be the
only one, and now it's just one.
Speaker 6 (34:34):
It's one of many, one of many.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
It's kind of like sports documentaries like what story had
the what story hasn't been done?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Oh? By the way, have you guys, have you guys
watched the far one?
Speaker 6 (34:46):
I did last night?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Good?
Speaker 3 (34:47):
How was it?
Speaker 4 (34:50):
I thought it was okay. I didn't think that it
was I didn't think that it was great. I don't
think that there were there were a few things that
were that we didn't know about that I thought was interesting.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
But give me one.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Just of of of the of the text exchanges that
he had with Jen Sturger and then she admits She's like,
after this whole time, I still have never met Brett Favre.
Speaker 6 (35:18):
That was interesting. She was a big big piece of this.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Is it an episode sonic win or is it just
an It's just just an hour long.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
She's a stand up comedian, now right, that's cool?
Speaker 6 (35:30):
I think so.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
And then they do the they have the welfare stuff
in the Mississippi welfare situation at the end of it.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
Did he come across how does he come across in
that situation?
Speaker 6 (35:41):
Not? Not well. He also refused to participate, So it
was just looks awful.
Speaker 4 (35:46):
A bunch of people that you know, had negative things
to say about Brett Faharv, which if that's the tough
to tough to defend a lot of the stuff that's
gone on, for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, I think again.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
My thing is, obviously, when you're trying to raise money,
did you know where that money was coming from?
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Did he know? That's a big thing.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Did he know where that money was coming from?
Speaker 6 (36:14):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
He did.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation yet. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
App What Up Doug Gotlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. I
love guys that multitask I am a multitasker, as many
of you know. Seth Wicker Shams, the sportstritter, acclaimed sports author.
He's author author of the new book American King's Biography
of the Quarterback, which is available now for pre order.
(36:44):
The book comes out in September. He joins us now
on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio, but
not not without mentioning that he just tweeted out some
inside information from the Tush push vote earlier today. Right, So,
I just saw a quote that you tweeted out. But
most of America is driving their car, they're at the cubicle.
(37:07):
They can't see it. What was the analogy that Jeffrey
Lorie used about the play.
Speaker 10 (37:13):
Hey, guys, good to see Good to talk to you again. Yeah,
some news coming at it today. You know, it was
a very heated Twust Push argument today in the league
meetings earlier, and I think, you know, Eagles owner Jeffrey
Lourie made an impassioned speech. It lasted close to an hour.
He spent a lot of time, you know, defending the
play and his team, and you know, I think he
(37:34):
thought that he had seen reports that the Tust Push
was going to be banned, and so I think he
felt that he needed to, you know, kind of throw
a hail Mary, and he made an analogy that kind
of fell flat where you know, he he he said that,
you know, it was like a wet dream for a
teenage boy quote to create a play that was so
(37:56):
successful that the only way for it to be stopped
was for it to be based and so yeah, so
you know, Troy Vincent, NFL executive vice president, later told him,
we thought that was completely insensitive, given that, you know,
there's a lot of people in the room, including women,
and obviously, you know, the Chuch Push ends up not
getting banned.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, it's really interesting. There was so much momentum for it.
It wasn't like he was even it was twenty two
to ten, but he needs twenty four votes in order
to go through. Okay, Seth, let's it's been I don't
know about a week week and a half since the
excerpts from your book were first released, and everyone talked
obviously about Caleb Williams. What's the fallout been in the league?
(38:43):
From Caleb at the time saying I want to go
to the Vikings and now he's a member of the Bears.
Speaker 10 (38:51):
Well, one of the funny things about when you do
a story for some reason, the first question people ask
is about like fallout or reaction, And not to sound
all very David, but the reaction has been me answering
questions about people asking me what the reaction has.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
You know, but but.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
You also but you also do wear two hats, right,
Like it's not like you write the book and I'm
just an author of that book and nothing else. You
also still report on the NFL, So I know people
are pulling you aside, going like I can't or whatever they're.
Speaker 10 (39:19):
Saying, Yeah, well, I mean I think that, like I
think that, like there was a lot of sort of
rumor and some reporting at the time that you know
that Kayla had some doubts about going to the Bears,
and then his dad definitely did. And so you know
what I tried to do was add what I could
on that reporting. And you know, I think his dad,
Carl wanted to give him one to find any way
(39:41):
possible to do what Jack and John Elway had done
and do what Archie and he like Manning had done,
and that was, you know, give his son some agency
over his future employer. It's not an unreasonable thing. And
the lead up to the draft, you know, they Karl
had told me, you know, Chicago's where quarterbacks go to die,
(40:02):
and he's not wrong. And so now Caleb, though, was
the one making the decisions. And so Caleb met with
the Bears at the combine. I think it was a
good meeting. It was fine. And then he also at
the combine met with Kevin O'Connell of the Minnesota Vikings.
(40:23):
And O'Connell, of course, is a four year starter at
San Diego State playing quarterback with Tom Brady a little
bit in the NFL, one of the been around some
of the best coaches in the NFL and is now
one of them himself, and they really got along well,
and I think he got Caleb energized and thinking like, man,
you know, could that be a possibility to play in Minnesota?
(40:43):
And he told his dad, I really I got to
go to Minnesota. But you know, the problem is the
draft is collectively bargained and even though Carl Williams had
spent the better part of a year trying to find
any way around it, talking to lawyers, Archie Manning, all
kinds of people, there really wasn't a way. And that
left them with one option, and that was to kind
(41:07):
of nuke the city and make the and the team
and make everything untenable. And you know, kind of what
John and Jack Elway did with the city of Baltimore
in eighty three. And at the end of the day,
Caleb was not willing, was not was not willing and
ready to do that. He didn't want to. He visited
with the Bears again, he enjoyed his time with them,
(41:27):
and he decided he wanted to make it work in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
This it wasn't a Caleb Williams book. I think that's
the most important thing that you not understand right, But
it again because the quotes and because he was in
a moon pick, and because of Poline Eli Manning. It's
become before people up a Caleb Williams book, Who's the
(41:54):
most Surprising.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
Quarterback?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
In terms of the story, you feel like people will
learn about when they pick.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Up the book.
Speaker 10 (42:03):
Well, so, I mean, take keer zoom back. I mean,
what's fascinated about me about this this job? You know,
it's a very unique American job. It has very unique responsibilities.
It's unlike anything else in sports in almost every single way.
You know, a shortstop or a center fielder or a
point guard does not wear all of the hats and
quarterback wears from being the spokesperson of a multi billion
dollar organization to you Matt ma Idle to situational asshole,
(42:29):
like you know, there's all kinds of things, and you know,
I wanted to try to show what it takes to
do this and what kind of people are drawn to it.
It's again, it's just different, and so it's not a
history of the quarterback. But I did figure out and
try to look at like, you know, how did this
become so celebrated in our in our culture? And I
(42:50):
think that like, you know, some of the answers go
back to nineteen oh six. Some of them go back
to the nineteen forties with Bob Waterfield and Jane Russell.
Bob Waterfield when he was at UCLA and he was
dating Jane Russell, who at the time was the world's
biggest pin up star, ran in higher, more wafty American
circles than any college quarterback ever, more than Tim Tebile,
(43:13):
more than Caleb Williams, you name it.
Speaker 6 (43:14):
It was.
Speaker 10 (43:15):
I mean, he was hanging out with Sinatra as a
college senior. But most of all, I wanted to like
show in the realist way what it was like to
do this, whether it was through the eyes of Lway
or the Manning family and Archie Manning's recruitment, or Caleb
Williams in his journey or Steve Young, you know. So anyway,
(43:37):
there's a lot of those guys that come into play,
and there's other quarterbacks who kind of get their moment
on stage. But I think the thing that surprised me
the most is just how from the moment that really
like a man could throw spirals. This thing was celebrated
in America and in a very real way, even though
quarterback is huge now. It's like time as a flat circle.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
You also wrote the Brain Belichick book. Seth Bicker SAMs
our guest here on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox
Sports Radio. If I were to tell you, and you
were writing that book that Bill Belichick would be a
college coach and be engaged to a twenty four year
old who people believe is uh the puppet master behind
(44:23):
a lot of his media and social media things, what
would you have said.
Speaker 10 (44:31):
I would have said, let's talk when you're sober.
Speaker 9 (44:38):
Uh.
Speaker 10 (44:39):
Yeah, boy, you know I think that like since Belichick,
you know, since he opened the door for Tom Brady
to leave New England and Brady walked right out. You know,
it just it hasn't been a great run for him.
You know, he drafted Bertie's replacement in mac Jones, didn't
(45:00):
really work out, had some losing seasons there the end
of New England, had an awkward parting of ways with
Bob Kraft obviously, didn't get hired again in the NFL
and was out of the game for the first time,
out of the NFL for the first time since you know,
he was a senior at Wesleyan, and you know, venue
(45:23):
of this drama. I mean, I think that, like the
University of North Carolina when they made Bill Belichick the
state's highest paid public employee, they had to have been
thinking that at the minimum, what we are getting is
a low drama, buttoned up football operation. And since Belichick
(45:43):
has been there so far, we're not talking about any
of the players. We're not talking about how he's going
to scheme up defenses to slap around Dabos Swiney's offense.
What we're talking about with Bill is all of these
you know, side issues, and a lot of that falls
at his seed.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
Seth.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
We're going to have you back when the book is out.
Remember this book, which you can pre order right now,
is called American Kings, a biography of the quarterback, and yes,
to Kayleb Williams part is part of it, but so
to his arch Manning, so to is many of the
other young quarterbacks. It'll come out in September. Seth, great stuff.
Love having you on.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 10 (46:24):
Thanks. Great talking to you man.
Speaker 1 (46:25):
Likewise, let me get you to Dan Byer get a
quick breaking news update here on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 5 (46:33):
Breaking news from Fox Sports.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
Oklahoma City thunder Guard Shay Giljess. Alexander is the NBA's
MVP for the twenty twenty four to twenty five season.
That's according to our report from ESPN.
Speaker 2 (46:47):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yes, and when he goes up to grab the MVP,
if anybody gets in his way at all, we know
it's going to be an animal. Oh what, that's the
third Oklahoma City Thunder player to get the MVP.
Speaker 6 (47:01):
Is that right?
Speaker 2 (47:02):
Third player to get the MVP?
Speaker 6 (47:04):
Durant, West Westbrook and SGA.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yeah, it's interesting. I heard stephen A say that Sam
Presty was a failure because they haven't won a championship
despite all the players. It's it's I mean, I greatly
disagree with it, but it actually is a discussion.
Speaker 2 (47:24):
It is like, okay, it is a discussion.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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