THE BEST OF THE DOUG GOTTLIEB SHOW

On a Wednesday edition of The Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Dan Beyer and Aaron Torres in for Doug as they discuss the Cowboys and the report that their negotiations with star Micah Parsons have gone backwards. 

They discuss no-brainers for current NFL players going to the Hall of Fame in this installment of "The Midway".

Dan and Aaron disagree about the proposed changes to the college football playoff format.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific Unbox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
boxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching fs R.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
A Happy Wednesday to you. Welcome in. You manned it
through halfway of the week. Although I still feel like
if people now are starting to get their vacations in
school starts in a couple of weeks, so it's now
we're never if you're going to go away for the summer.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
It does it just feels like I feel like even
sports and we're here for two hours to get you
caught up on everything in sports, but it just feels
like we're like a week or two away from those
like super pressing topics, and now it's just kind of
weight weeding through what we need to know with these
training camps versus what we don't same with baseball and
everything else going on in sports.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
A pressing topic in Dallas, at least with the Cowboys
as they have training camp us here in southern California
and Oxnard is the contract situation of Micah Parsons. I
also think there's a bigger picture when it comes to
the Cowboys. We'll get to that in just a second.
Your Manzi gave us the latest big game today at
American Family Field in Milwaukee. That's where Doug Gottlieb is.

(01:15):
Doug Gottlieb is taking in the Cubs and Brewers, and
I just want to say this. I say this, I
would have I would say this to Doug's face. Brewers
going for the sweep today, Doug's in attendance, Brewers are losing.
So Doug right now, mister Jenks, I would say that
to his face, like just name Doug. Just stay just
stay away, just maybe stay away, Doug.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
This is like I worked for about four years in
the eight PM Saturday slot with Arnie Spanier Arizona and
men's basketball and football when a combined like one and
four hundred and twenty two in that time slot, to
the point that the saga has drops in everything because
it it was, it was bad. It was it was

(01:59):
a bloodbatt When Arnie Spaniers on when the Arizona Wildcats on.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Your pre show Rundown, before the game even finished, you
could write Arizona loss. Oh yeah, under twenty after the hour,
we're going to talk about Arizona's loss, whether it be
in football, whether it be in basketball, and if it
was a heartbreaker, you could move it up to the
top of the hour. Yes.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
It was also funny too because basically the year he
left our Saturday time slot to you know, spend time
with the family whatever. That was what they got good
at football, that one nine win season when they had
Tea Yeah, yeah, I go all right, yeah, when they
had Jetfish was the coach, and t Mac was kind
of coming into his own obviously, the wide receiver who's
now with the Carolina Panthers. So yeah, it was like

(02:40):
more than just a coincidence after a certain amount of time.
Can't say, I don't know if it's the same with
Doug and Wisconsin sports appearances for the Brewers and the
Packers and whatever else he's attending.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
But I know it was for Arnies, just busting his
chops a little bit. It's what we do here on
Fox Sports Radio on the Doug Gottlieb Show. We got
a midway coming up. Moncy Belanios this year, I was
Sam technical producer in the show of Course, executively produced
by the one and only Jason Stewart. Trey Hendrickson has
reported to camp for the Cincinnati Bengals. As he continues
to hold in. We believe that maybe the sides are

(03:14):
getting closer on a deal. If Hendrickson would end up reporting,
grinned he doesn't want to have the fines that he
was accruing. So Hendrickson shows up today. It feels like
it's a completely different situation with Micah Parsons are taking
in and being present in Cowboys camp, and we now
have this report saying that the Dallas Cowboys and Michah

(03:37):
Parsons are actually moving in the wrong direction. Adam Schefter
reported that the sides are actually further apart than they
were when they were talking about a contract in late
March and early April. And the exact quote is, the
two sides have gone backwards, not forwards. I don't think
they're speaking very much these days, if at all, this

(03:58):
negotiation when it was in the negotiation has gone sideways.
It's not a negotiation right now. There's really no conversation
about getting a deal done.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
Can I ask two follow up questions. Yes, the first
one impact that a TJ. Watt contract which broke when
all of us were together a few weeks ago. Impact
that that may have had on negotiations, I think zero, okay.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
And the only reason being is because age wise, like
you're gonna pay Micah Parsons, and if we're talking about
a million dollars a year or honestly two hundred and
fifty thousand dollars a year, because you just want to
top the next guy. That's what we've seen a lot,
you know, throughout like That's that's what I think, unless

(04:41):
they want to do and as crazy as it sounds,
a DAK deal where you just completely overpay him more
than anybody else, which I think also then makes this
more difficult, is maybe that's what Micah Parsons is wanting.
But I don't think that TJ. Watt's number came in.
I think they are probably working more off of the
Miles Garrett number than they would be of what TJ.
Watt got, So it was going to be higher than Garrett.

(05:02):
And if I'm Micah Parsons, I would want a little
bit more than what I would want more than what
Garrett got. And if it's TJ. Watt. I don't know
how that necessarily changes their position unless he's now saying, well,
you're giving an old guy this much money, now I
want X amount more. I don't think that's the case. Okay.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Second question, how much did Jerry Jones's comments over the
last ten days or so impact the fact that these
conversations may be moving quote backwards?

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, I don't think they help. How can they? Right? Yep?
I mean when you're then now rating the decibel level
of ceedee lamb chance to Micah Parsons Chance, that's when
it becomes personal. I think all of this is business,
so I think that that does play a part in it.
And for the sides to be further away than they

(05:52):
were when Jerry wasn't talking as much about it in
the early spring springtime area, late winter, early spring, I
think that that does hamper things. Now, you can make
it all said and good when you sign a contract
and you forget that stuff. But if Adam Schefter is
saying that there's no negotiation right now, and Jerry Jones

(06:12):
is worrying about whose chants are louder and who's aren't, yeah,
like the old saying like if you listen to the fans,
you're gonna be sitting with them. It's difficult when it's
the owner and GM. But yeah, I think that's I
think it's that would bother me if I'm Micah Parsons
in hearing those comments from Jerry Jones.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah, I think to me, without having maybe some context
that we all need, just my first reaction is, I
actually think the narrative that makes the most sense to
me is the one that you said with Dak Prescott,
is that Jerry has kind of just set the precedent
that if you're a homegrown cowboy that was drafted by
the organization and you've done right by him and you've

(06:49):
whatever that, the assumption is not only are you going
to get your contract, you are going to get overpaid
in the process of getting that contract. To me, that's
my first, just gut initial reaction of did Michael Parsons
come in expecting to blow out the water of every
other defensive lineman or defensive player that's ever gotten a
you know, an extension or a deal and Jerry is

(07:11):
probably trying to do something more in line with the market.
That was my first reaction. So I don't know if
that's crazy from your perspect Do you think TJ. Watt's
contract affected this at all? No, I actually don't think
so because to your point one, obviously the age difference.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
I I don't think the TJ. Watt thing did. I
just think that. Let me ask you, like, don't we
kind of have like.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
All of the most recent big negotiations for the Cowboys,
haven't it felt like? And I can't go through every
single one, but haven't it felt Hasn't it felt like
the majority of them, the Cowboys have kind of come
out on the wrong side of them, But the sentiment
has been from Jerry and the front office is like,
we take care of our own, we do this, we

(07:59):
do that.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
So that to me is what I feel. I don't
think TJ.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
Watt had as much to do with it as again
a Dak Prescott did, as other guys have in the past.
You know, I was thinking about while you were talking,
remember the Jalen Smith contract about four or five years ago,
and even in real time people were like, oh, that's
not gonna age well, but it was like, well, they
drafted him when coming off that injury at Notre Dame,
and nobody believed in them. And Jerry gave him a chance,

(08:24):
and this is such a great reward, and it is
kind of the old cliche of are you paying for
past production or future production? And that one in the
moment felt like, Yeah, they're kind of paying for the
narrative and the story rather than the player they're gonna
have over the next couple of years. And I just
bring it up because to me, I almost feel like
that's part of the Cowboys brand now, is they They're

(08:46):
so worried about taking care of their own even if
it comes at the detriment of the team, the salary
cap whatever. And I just wonder if that might have
been the thought process from Michael Parsons coming in as aw,
not only am I gonna get what I deserve, I'm
gonna get more. I'm gonna get that cowboy packed down
to it.

Speaker 4 (09:01):
You know.

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, why does it start with me? Now? That's how
you're saying. If you're Michael Parsons, why is it so
then you end up taking it personally? The funny thing
with the history is you mentioned Jalen Smith. I go
back to the Ezekiel Elliott deal where they paid him
early because Jerry had talked about like I don't want
and I'm paraphrasing, I'm older. I don't want to die

(09:22):
and not win a Super Bowl. Our window is now.
I want to make sure that our bell Cow is
taken care of. I'm completely paraphrasing what Jerry Jones said.
But they paid Ezekiel Elliott way earlier than they would
because they were in it at that point. They were
in that window. So then we look at it and say, wow,
you'd take care of Ezekiel Elliott. You don't take care
of these other people, and including Dak Prescott, what are
you doing? Well, then he completely overpays Dak Prescott when

(09:45):
he does and makes us forget about Ezekiel Elliott. Granted
that was, you know, a few more years ago than
it is now. But now we look at the Dak
deal and if you're Micah Parson saying, yeah, why don't
I get that? And you took care of Ceede Lamb,
So yeah, there is a reason on why you would
feel you'll make it feel personal. I think this is
a part of a bigger story though, and it's not

(10:07):
just a Cowboys thing. I think it's an NFL thing.
And the reason that I say that Aaron is because
I don't think that Jerry Jones has handled these negotiations
well and for some reason, there's always something about it.
I also feel that the Cowboys have done a decent
job in acquiring some talent through the draft, but for
some reason haven't put everything together honestly, Like the Dak

(10:30):
Prescott pick, whether he like him or not where he
was drafted, has worked out magnificently. You know, yes, absolutely
so can't You can't disregard any of that. But for
the Cowboys to continue to be mediocre and Rich Davis
and Cavino and Rich brought up the stat yesterday that
every team in the NFC has been in an NFC
championship game more recently than the Cowboys have has got

(10:52):
to be a shot right between the eyes to Jerry Jones,
because it's his team. But it's not only his team
as an owner, it's his team as the guy's running
as a general manager. And in a way, I feel
that Jerry Jones incompetence has held back the NFL in
some ways. And the reason I say that is I
think the NFL needs the Dallas Cowboys. And when we

(11:14):
look at the NFL right now and we think it's
the strongest as it ever is. We don't have their
number one brand firing on all cylinders. This league would
be on absolute fire if Dallas was good again. And
I think Jerry Jones's actions have really withdrawn and taken
the Dallas Cowboys and taken the NFL and not allowed

(11:35):
them to progress. The Cowboys are there with the Yankees,
they're there with the Lakers. Their brand is their brand,
and they have not been a great football team for
thirty years, yet we still are constantly talking about them.
We're talking about Jerry Jones. Imagine, and I don't know
what year you were actually born, Aaron, So I apologize
for this, Okay, perfect. It was a different NFL then,

(11:58):
and everybody hates the Cowboys then, and the Cowboys fans
love the Cowboys. Temperature was high in the NFL and
without having your biggest brand succeed. I think it is
very damaging to the NFL. And I think that it's
it's the fault of Jerry Jones and how these things
have taken place, because the NFL could be on an

(12:21):
even higher level if their biggest brand was worth a
darn so.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
A couple things one, So it is funny because I
do remember the early nineties, and it is interesting that
there is a huge generation of people that they're kind
of the Cleveland Browns. They're kind of the Jacksonville Jaguars.
You know, they've won enough where they've made enough Playoff appearances.

(12:46):
But like I have a nephew, he's twenty I think
twenty four or twenty five years old, clearly do the math.
He was born after the last Super Bowl to him,
and he's a Cowboys fan, and they're just a joke
that something's gonna go at the worst possible time. Like
that is his memory of the Dallas Cowboys. I think
it's interesting though, because your point is that the NFL

(13:11):
cannot fire on all cylinders if the Cowboys aren't great.
Let me ask you the opposite. Do you think it's
helped the other brands grow? Because obviously the narrative on
the NFL is Mahomes is in Kansas City, Josh Allen's
at Buffalo, the greatest dynasty we've seen is in New England.
And I think it's actually helped. And I'll use an
analogy is we live in Los Angeles. The Lakers suck

(13:35):
up the oxygen in the NBA, whether they're good or not.
And I think in a lot of ways it's held
back the NBA of we should be celebrating the Oklahoma
City Thunder, but instead we're breaking down a JJ Reddick
pregame press conference because he freaked out about something after
losing in the first round of the playoffs. And so
I think it's held back the NBA that when we

(13:57):
don't know what to talk about, we just default to
what's going on with the Lakers. Obviously Lebron has been
a factor, but even when Lebron wasn't there, even in
those years with Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram, it was
still you talked about the Lakers. And I think it's
actually held back the NBA because it feels like there's
always that easy default, and I think it's actually I
think it's actually helped the NFL that they've struggled, because

(14:19):
it proves that one, you don't need one brand, but two,
to your point, when that brand is firing on all cylinders,
does it overshadow everything else? And maybe we wouldn't be
celebrating some other stuff as much as we are if
the Cowboys are really.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Most everybody has a favorite team in the NFL. I'm
not sure if that's the case in the NBA, Like
I'm not sure everybody has a favorite team in the
NBA when you're a fan, and I think that there
is with the NFL. I just look at the NFL
teams right now. And I'm not talking about all thirty
two of you know, even going down a road of
Cleveland or Jacksonville. I'm just saying, our most dominant team
right now is the Kansas City Chiefs. And I know

(14:56):
they lost the Super Bowl, But who here is sick
of the Chiefs their hand? Anybody and anybody else? Iowa, Sam,
are you absolutely? Yeah? Yeah, I am as well. Monzi
is not. Monzy gave a thumbs down. Who was sick
of the Patriots during their run show of hands? I
was absolutely was. You may get sick of the Dallas Cowboys,
but I don't think that lessons you're angst and hate

(15:19):
towards the Dallas Cowboys when they're rolling. They are the
ultimate villain. I grew up in a time in Major
League Baseball. Aaron I was born in the late seventies,
forty eight years old. The Yankees weren't the Yankees in
the nineteen eighties. They weren't the Yankees until the mid
nineteen nineties. It wasn't until I was in you know,
late in high school and in college that I understood

(15:40):
this is the Yankees. This is the Yankees. And now
for the last thirty years, I understand what the Yankees
are and they're championships and who they are as a franchise.
But in the nineteen eighties, mid nineteen eighties to the
mid nineteen nineties, they were kind of like the Cowboys
were to me, and I didn't necessarily understand it. Then
they started winning, and it's a different feel. It's a
different Baseball is different when the Yankees are good. It

(16:02):
just it is. And I feel that way with the
Lakers as well. It's actually one of the problems that
the NBA has had is you don't have enough good,
high brand teams in the West. Until the Warriors came along.
The Lakers had to carry so much water in being
the Western Conference representative. Otherwise your NBA finals are kind
of like, oh, it's a downer. Thank goodness for the NBA.

(16:23):
The Warriors came along and gave you another team to
actually care about where when you're talking brand wise, in
the NBA. You could could have the Knicks, you could
have the Celtics, you could have the seventy six ers,
you had the Bulls, you have these other brands coming
up in the NFL. I just think that the Cowboys
are above everyone else when it comes to brand wise
and the moves that Jerry Jones has made and trying

(16:44):
to make the Star in the Star what it is.
But as a general manager, it's actually held back the
NFL because they haven't had their true top brand be
successful and really allow the league to maximize on all cylinders.
I just think people would hate the Cowboys if they
were fourteen and three going to Super Bowls, going to
an NFC championship game. I think it's a different feel

(17:05):
and I think that this is kind of I think
it's unfortunate that there's a bit of a malaise over
the Cowboys. The win total was seven and a half
this season, and I just don't think that's good for
the National Football League.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Yeah, I I'm trying to I had a way to
frame it and I kind of forgot, But I think
it would make the league more interesting if they were
really good. I don't know that it's like holding back
the league. I think that those are two different things.

(17:39):
Like I do think it would make things more interesting
if you kind of checked in every week with a
rooting interest of God cow because when I was a child,
that was like, man, like you know Michael Irvin, Deon Sanders,
who we know had a pretty heavy week, but like
you rooted against those guys. I guess just it's interesting
because I I still think we tune into the Cowboys,

(18:03):
but it's for a different reason, and it's because even
when things are going well, it feels like we know
that the crashing downfall is going to be spectacular, and
by the way, they never disappoint with that regard.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
So yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think there's a difference between It would probably the
best version of the NFL would have the Cowboys good
because people would care. I also don't know that that
necessarily means the NFL is being held back though, if
that makes sense, if.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
You had your perfect Super Bowl, like in the NFC,
what team are you putting there?

Speaker 3 (18:36):
You're oh, without the with that, I mean, without the
context of who's on what team? Yeah, right now it's
probably the Cowboys. But it's because I mean, I don't know,
if Mahomes was in the the NFC instead of the AFC,
would we still say Cowboys. Probably, But I'm not sure,
you know. I mean when Aaron Rodgers with the Packers,

(18:58):
I don't think people would default to the Cowboys because
it was the Cowboys.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
I don't, but I think that's because of Aaron Rodgers.
I think. Like, but right now, like with Jordan Love, like,
nobody's like, yeah, I'd rather have the Packers in, but
we're doing that with Dallas, Like, like, I think we
would do that with Dallas because of who they are. Well,
that's what I mean as a matter who the quarterback.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
I think with the context of not if if every
roster was blank and we were just putting logos, yeah,
it would probably be Steelers Cowboys.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
But that's not how it works, you know.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
I Mean that's like saying, would you like, would I
rather watch the Steelers or the Kansas City Chiefs with
Patrick Mahomes or the Baltimore Ravens with Lamar Jackson. I'd
rather watch the Baltimore Ravens with Lamar Jackson. But if
it's just the Baltimore Ravens logo versus the Pittsburgh Steelers, logo,
which one elicits more emotion from me, It's obviously the

(19:46):
Pittsburgh Steelers.

Speaker 2 (19:46):
I think if the NFL could pick, they would pick
the Chiefs and then pick the Cowboys.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
The Chiefs because of Mahomes, though not because of the logo,
not because of the brand.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Correct and and I'm sick of the Chiefs, like so
like so like the like. The appeal to me is
is the Cowboys. Maybe you would throw in a buffalo.
I just I don't think it's close in the NFC.
But that's what I'm saying. Is it an NFC problem,
not a Cowboys problem? Like when Brady was on that
we didn't care about the Bucks before or after, but
when they had Brady they matter.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
So I mean, I think you can argue that Cowboys
are the only brand that we care about if they're
really good, but we also kind of want to tune
in if they're really bad. I think you can absolutely
argue that. I just think they're probably the only brand
that we I think it's fair.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
I think it's fair. I think you're making my point.

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Yeah, I think now that I'm talking it through, they're
probably the only brand that we tune into when they're like, like,
clearly when Dak's hurt and they're on their four string
quarterback whatever, but when they are operating as something close
to one hundred percent, yes we tune in.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
So I maybe I am making your point. Jason Stewart's
our executive producer.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Isn't I think we can run into a problem watch
here on this show and probably in sports talk like
the Cowboys weren't really interesting?

Speaker 3 (20:57):
Oh dude, yeah, well we Jamar and I have had
that on our show. Is like are they a topic anymore?
Like they are a topic because they're the Cowboys, but
there's nothing interesting about them.

Speaker 5 (21:07):
And they're bad, and so I mean that's why I think,
like I'll take the question like does the NFL need
them to be good? I'll just do they need them
to be at least interesting if you have interesting personalities.
I remember when they when they hired Brian Schottenheimer and
there was a kind of that scant rumor that maybe
Dion Sanders was in the mix. And you imagine the

(21:29):
Cowboys hiring Deon Sanders and they hired the exact opposite
coming off a year where they just weren't very relevant.
So well, I would say the NFL needs them to
be interesting.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Well, and that's my broader point on them is I
think they've kind of become a punching bag of like
you just like everybody is supposed to be in on
the like like there's like there's some inside joke inside
that building that we're supposed to be in on, and
we're just not like, Oh, you're gonna go hire Dion,
you're gonna go hire Belichick, You're gonna go hire Saban,

(22:02):
Oh you hired Brian Schottenheimer. And it's like, maybe maybe
it's the reverse of what I said, is like we
expect them to be something that they.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Are never gonna be. I don't I'm not articulating myself.
Well i'll throw over you wants in on.

Speaker 6 (22:17):
So you guys very kind of include me in your emails,
you know. And when I saw this original topic, I
thought you made a good point Aaron in general of
like hold on.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Hold on, hold on, she's gonna stab me in the
back a little bit. I thought you made a good
point of it.

Speaker 6 (22:31):
But I agree with Dan that it's like it would
be great for the NFL if the Cowboys were good. Now,
maybe interesting is another part of it, but you know,
Jerry Jones to me is still very interesting because he's just.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
So and funny.

Speaker 6 (22:44):
I mean, he's old and funny to me, guys, I
can't so I think it helps the league.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
I think I think that. I think the Cowboys at
one and sixteen and eight and eight are the same thing.
I think the Cowboys at fourteen and three and rolling
year of the year are just a different animal.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
But they've been fourteen and three in the last twenty
years and nobody's believed in them.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Sure that I don't want to say that they're one offs.
They have been top seeds if you took the Jimmy
Johnson Cowboys, which is truly the last time that like
and you put that like, I think the NFL is
even better than it is right now because of we
just don't have that right now. We think the Eagles
are the best team, but we're not necessarily sure if

(23:28):
the Cowboys are in the mix. It doesn't matter on
who is two and three and four. Everybody's gunning for
Dallas and and them being at this malaise of just
mediocrity on a league that is super strong as it is.
I think he can only get better, and that's that's
my point.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
I will say, to your point, I think they're probably
the only team that we tune into.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
For the logo yep, Pittsburgh Steelers. I know they have Rogers.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
Maybe that's a bad example right now, But to your point,
Jordan Love, I find him to be not even one
of the fifteen most interesting stories in the league. I
just the Packers don't interest me at all. Steelers obviously
irrelevant for a while. If Patrick Mahomes decided to retire tomorrow,
no one cares about that. I mean, look at look
at how quickly it just fell off. With the Patriots,
It's like they're the greatest honisty ever with the greatest

(24:16):
coach and the greatest quarterback.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
We don't care. Yeah, I'm a Seahawks fan. Without Russell
Wilson and Pete Carroll primetime games, you know, most of
it's I see you later. They're not they were. They
were in prime time games all the time. You know,
those leave. But with the Cowboys, Dak Prescott, who we're
not even sure is great or not. I think he's good,
we're not sure he's great, And he's still a topic
good conversation because he's the quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys.

(24:40):
All right, he's Aeron Torres. I'm Dan Byer in for
Doug gottlieb here on a Wednesday on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 7 (24:46):
This is the best of the Don dott Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
All right, get out your pen, get out your pad
of paper, start jo cutting down those Hall of famers.
It's an exercise we do every Wednesday when we get
everyone together. Not only is it me and Aaron Torres
in for Doug gottlie who's taking in some day baseball
in the Bruce City today featuring the two top teams
in the Nlcentral got Jason Stewart, our executive producer, Iowa

(25:17):
Sam or technical producer, And you just heard Monzi Blanos
at the news desk. Moncey will be here as well,
giving us any breaking news or anything that comes in.
Trade deadline again a day away, so she'll have the
details on that, plus interesting news involving Gilbert Arenas, the
former NBA star arrested. We're going to touch on that
in about forty minutes or so. Jason Stewart, a poker player,

(25:42):
the resident poker player here. Does this Arenas story interest
you because it's Arenas or because it's centered around poker,
or that there's like mob boss isn't involved in this. Now.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
I love poker, I love high stakes poker, so I
want to I can't wait for the discovery and to
see how how much was they were playing for, what
the setup was, how much they tip the dealers, all
the I want all the details. I love the poker
aspect of this, But it's Gilbert Arenas and the news
for the wrong reasons again. And I think Amazon, if

(26:15):
I'm not mistaken, didn't they say he's going to be
a part of their coverage next year.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
I have no clue. Yeah, I don't know who is
going where. You may be correct Grady yesterday, that's the
only one you saw, Tracy McGrady yesterday, all right.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
But yeah, former NBA player that's going to serve federal
time because you know the old saying, right, if you're
up on federal charges, you're gonna lose.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
And for those of you that are wondering when Big
Mike here at Fox Sports Radio would come into the
studio and tell us that he played poker with some
mob bosses. Big MIC's on vacation this week, so heard. Yeah, No,
I know Cavino and Rich. Did he even do his
Cavino and Rich bit Mike's words of wisdom before he left?

Speaker 5 (26:56):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
Do we know that we have them ready for the
last two wins days?

Speaker 4 (27:01):
He worked ahead on that. Okay, we have to make
sure that we get Mike's bits in. Even if Mike's
not here.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
He's on vacation, so he can't top any of Jason's
poker stories. But we'll get to the Gilbernarina's poker story
coming up again now in about a little more than
thirty eight minutes. But it is the middle of the week, Aaron,
it's the middle of the show. That means it's he's
not getting.

Speaker 7 (27:23):
It's time for the midway.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Jason Stewart developed this topic this segment. He can give
you the background and all you need to know on
today's discussion.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
Thank you, Dan. I'll take it from here.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
I'll take it from here.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
So so uh.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
By the way that with that line, I didn't.

Speaker 5 (27:47):
Even I'll take it from here, Sam, I think that's
the bat line calling. The hot one around on the
FCC is calling me. We might be taking off the
air here pretty quick. I guarantee it's big Mike to
talk about his poker games. I guarantee that's what it is.
So Dan, this is a Dan's idea. I don't know
why I'm doing this, but I think with the Hall
of Fame game tomorrow night, I think this is a

(28:09):
great topic. What what players right now? Plane? So like
I think Billy Wagner doesn't count.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
J J.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
Watt doesn't count. What current NFL player playing right now
is a no brainer? Hall of Famer. The one aspect
that I tried to shoehorn in this is like, can
we pat sajack this up, Aaron and take the obvious
letters off the screen that everybody knows? In other words,
do we take Kelsey off because it's a no brainer,

(28:41):
it's an easy one.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Or do we leave him in or do we have
a production meeting on air? Dan, I think that we can.
We can name who is just automatic no brainer? And
what I think is going to happen if somebody's gonna
say a name and everyone gonna be like cold up,
old up, I think that's what's gonna happen. So and
I think we reverse that.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
I think it's like we take obscure like, well, I mean,
this punter is obviously in his net yardage and like
nobody else has any facts on that.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
We'll do it Jason's way. He's the producer of the show.
So who do we who do we have on the board,
So who do we know is going in? Mahomes? Right? Like,
if if Patrick Mahomes didn't play another NFL game, he's
in the Hall, and then you would go Tramas, Travis
Kelsey with that. I'm good with that. Aaron Rodgers, Yeah,

(29:35):
for sure, I'm gonna give you another one. Derrick Henry, Yeah, okay,
I like it. I think that Derrick Henry doesn't have
to rush another yard in his career and he's going
to be a Hall of Fame. I like that one.
So that's four right now, Rogers, Mahomes, Kelsey, Derrick Henry.
Now we can have the discussion those Do you think

(29:58):
it's those four? Unless something comes to mind? Guys, I
have a fifth? All right?

Speaker 3 (30:03):
And again this is where not having like the credentials.
I mean, Lamar Jackson is a two time league MVP
that feel that would be weird if he retire today,
and a two time league MVP who easily could have
won a third one. I know the window is small.
I just find it hard to believe that he would.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Not be in. I agree with that.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
I agree with that, and by the way, people disagree,
I'm I'm more than you know. Come at me, but
I'm just saying I think that feels relatively no brainersh
to me.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
I would agree with that. I think Von Miller is
no doubt a Hall of Famer. Super Bowl MVP, Defensive
Player of the Year. I put von Miller on that list,
and then I have I have won more. And we
can't do this for all thirty two teams because I
just but Trent Williams of the forty nine ers is

(30:55):
like a ten time pro bowler, all pro. I think
that Trent Williams is automatic in the Hall of Fame.
All right, So let me ask you another question. Are
we allowed to like look stuff up? Yes? Okay, okay, cool,
So it's not. I encourage it, actually because I think
it adds to the argument.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Let me throw this in. Matthew Stafford top ten all
time in passing yards. Yeah, and there are a couple
other you know, key stats.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
So no brainer from Sam. Yeah, Stafford's definitely in. I
don't think he'll be a first ballot. Actually, it depends
on the class. Honestly, if there aren't a lot of
big names, I think they'll put a quarterback in. I
think that his resume is Yeah, is solidified the Super
Bowl when stamped it. I agree with Stafford. I think

(31:43):
Stafford's but he's not.

Speaker 5 (31:44):
He's not in that original, the original list, the Pat
Stanst right correct. He's up for He's up for debate.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
I think he could be the I think he and
Lamar are up for you what you're saying, like, they're
right there.

Speaker 3 (32:01):
They're they're they're there, They're the reverse Lamar incredible numbers
in a small window and incredible individual accomplishment in a
small window. Matthew Stafford just production for basically two straight decades.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
It's point and I think that if you if again,
this is if if the players don't play another down.
So like so, someone like Jamar Chase, who's had a
magnificent start to his career, is just maybe too young
for this argument like his he's got a he's got
a career that's trending towards being Hall of Famer. If
this continues. Yeah, I don't think there's any doubt he's
the best wide receiver in the game. But as we

(32:36):
start to figure this out. Like Terrell Davis. When you
look at Terrell Davis's numbers, there was a point where,
like Charrell Davis was the best player in football, but
his career was cut short because of injuries. He ended
up getting into the Hall of Fame. If something were
to happen to the Jamar Chase injury wise, I think
that there could be there'd be an interesting argument to

(32:56):
go along those lines, but I wouldn't put him in
just yet. A guy still on his you.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Know, I hate to say, it's the Derek Rose corlery, right,
It's like Dereck Rose was so clearly on the trajectory
and then just but he didn't reach that point where
it was unimpeachable. He was so good, but then the
injuries just started and they never stopped, and it becomes
either a debate or he's just not in. And so
you have a guy like Jamar Chase, you have probably

(33:23):
you know, a Jaden Daniels would be in that window.
I know after one year it's a little whatever, but
you know, you see them on the path, but they
just haven't accomplished enough to do it.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, I just need like a little bit more like
I just need I just need like another year in
the NFL. That's basically all that it is. So Sam's
got a name, TJ. Watt possible this I just purely
by the number.

Speaker 6 (33:49):
Because broken the record.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
But I'm I'm I think, yes, I think that that is.
I think that's a can.

Speaker 4 (33:59):
You imagine him just never getting in like I can't.
I have to see he gets it at some point.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Correct for what he's accomplished in his limited NFL career.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
Yes, like they haven't had a deep run in the
playoffs with him on the team, but mostly that's offensive issues,
defensive issues.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yes, yes, I think TJ. Watt is a good answer, Manzi.
By the way, Watt four time All Pro and eight seasons,
I think that says it O.

Speaker 6 (34:24):
I have a nomination, yes, Mike Evans, Oh.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Say yes, that's a great ant. That's a great one.
That's a great recommendation.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Mazzi. He is on my list, I wrote, I wrote
twelve wait, I wrote, I can't count fourteen names down,
two of which had knows. A couple of others had
question marks, including Jamar Chase. Mike Evans was on my
list and did not have a question mark.

Speaker 5 (34:48):
I think he's in.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Yes, I think he absolutely is in, just on a
level of consistencies. Abso with the different players that he
played with. Yep. Granted you get a couple of seasons
with Brady, but with Baker Mayfield. I mean, yes, I am.
I am down with Mike Evans. The other thing that
I like about Mike Evans, and if you're OCD like me,

(35:09):
it's it's so fulfilling. You just look at his yardage
total and it's all four digits. Remember remember the season
he needed he was just shy, he needed to get
over a thousand yards. It's the same thing with Curtis Martin.
When you look at Curtis Martin's career, just look at
his rushing numbers and it's a thousand yard season, thousand
yard season, thousand yard season, thousand yard season, thousand yard season,
thousand yard seasons. Now a little different in a seventeen

(35:30):
game schedule, But Mike Evans absolutely, I think that is
a great nomination.

Speaker 3 (35:35):
Mike Evans a one thousand four yard season, also one
thousand six yard season, so literally one catch away two
times from not getting over there.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Just a little fun fact, just a little fun fact.

Speaker 5 (35:45):
Like everything that he does moving forward is just like
extra extra frosting. Yeah, agreed, let me let me I'll
throw one out there that's like the opposite of TJ.
Watt because TJ. Watt, in my mind, is like he's
gonna just start stack even more numbers. This guy was
a Hall of famer, I think two years ago if
we had this discussion. But is Russell Wilson still or

(36:09):
is even a Hall of Famer?

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I said no, Ever, I don't, I don't. I don't
think so. I I know his early years in Seattle,
he was a part of that that team. I think
his best years were after that. The super Bowl, there
was no doubt he was He was good, and I

(36:32):
think that super Bowl will carry a lot of weight.
But how it is just absolutely flamed out over these
last couple of years, and maybe some of its circumstances,
maybe Denver wasn't the right fit. Maybe it wasn't you know,
Nathaniel Hackett was part of the problem. He and Sean Payton,
oil and water. It seems like all of those things

(36:52):
are could have been real. But man, it's it's I
just don't, I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Let me ask you a question about Russell Wilson specifically,
is there another And I'm not saying he's an all
time great, So I'm not saying he's an all time great,
But is there an all time great quarterback whose best
individual years actually directly conflict with his team's best years?

Speaker 2 (37:15):
You know, like you could draw a pretty straight line.

Speaker 3 (37:17):
Brady's best years probably in a Super Bowl, probably winning
a Super Bowl?

Speaker 2 (37:22):
Does Shaun Watson's best year is when they were like
four and twelve like that. Like I know, bad, bad,
bad example, but like that's what you're talking about. Yeah,
Like like Russell Wilson last year, Joe Burrow, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7 (37:37):
No.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
Zia the way back in the way back chill, but
even Joe Burrow, like the only reason they were even
relevant was because of him. Sure where I certainly wouldn't
say the Seahawks were relevant despite Russell Wilson, but he
wasn't even close to the biggest reason. I don't know,
it's just an interesting thought, Like I I just there's
not a lot of guys that were, like their best

(38:00):
statistical years actually did not coincide with necessarily the biggest winning.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
The other Like Wilson's a ten time pro bowler, but
then you think of like this Pro Bowl mattering. Well,
that's part of the that's part of the conversation. Also
when you're like in the AFC and you're stacked, you know.
I mean, there was a time where it's Brady Manning, Roethlisberger, Rivers,
you know, all these quarterbacks, and so you're trying to
jockey for your spot in the Pro Bowl and you're

(38:28):
being blocked by these other guys. Not probably not too
different than right now with mahomes Lamar Josh Allen, Joe
Burrow for other guys trying to trying to make their
way in. But I just it's funny because I don't
look at I don't remember ten awesome, awesome years from
Russell Wilson, even though I felt like I've watched his career.

(38:50):
The first two years the Seahawks were an amazing team
and he offered them a dynamic. But that's what I mean.
It wasn't until they were past their Super Bowl where
Russell Wilson really took on the responsibility of being that top.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
That's what I'm saying. It's just a totally unique thing
to him that I can really think of.

Speaker 5 (39:07):
And if Pete Carroll decides to run Marshawn winch off tackle.
Russell Wilson is a Hall of Famer, right, because two
super Bowls get you win, so one play it comes
down to one play, you think.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Uh, yes, I think so because Eli is a bit
in the same situation. Eli did not get in last year.
I think Eli Manning will get in. I just I
applaud them, the voters for not putting him in as
a first ballot, because if you put him in first ballot,

(39:41):
then every quarterback gets in. I and so I think
that they kept the bar, they kept the standard. Eli
Manning's got fifty seven thousand yards. He's eleventh all time
in passing yards. Russell Wilson is seventeenth. He's eleven thousand
yards short. And I don't think he's going to pass
Eli Manning. So he's got the one super Bowl when

(40:05):
Russell Wilson does Eli Manning scot two. Eli Manning was
a four time Pro Bowler. Russell Wilson's ten Giants didn't
make the playoffs every year like the Seahawks did, but again,
as a Seahawks fan, that there were years where you're
just like, are there a playoff team? But they're not good?
Enough to to do anything in the playoffs. So that's

(40:25):
that's where I just kind of moved back off of it.
Like like, if you want to compare one super Bowl quarterbacks,
Matthew Staffn's just had a way better career than Russell
Wilson has. Can I just say two?

Speaker 3 (40:35):
This kind of shows you like the shelf life of players,
Like you think about these players that in the moment
we talked about so much that wouldn't even be in consideration.
Like I know it's bad example because he's running back,
but like we reference to Ezekiel Elliott earlier, like Zeke
Elliott was like a main focal talking point of a
great team and then it's just boom, He's gone and

(40:56):
never to be discussed again.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Just interesting. I think there could be there could be
an argument for someone like Ezekiel Elliott. But what about
Saquon Barkley.

Speaker 5 (41:07):
Yeah, if we're having this conversation a year ago, he's
not a no brainer, right correct?

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yes, absolutely, I don't even think he's in consideration. Yeah,
for what he's done, but last year and now what
could end up happening. I also feel there's a lower
bar with current day running backs from as opposed to
maybe what we had previously. The other thing is this

(41:34):
also is.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
What do you value as a quote unquote Hall of
Fame voter likes if Saquon literally did something that no
one has ever done, but he never comes close to
doing it again. And I know he didn't do what
nobody's onod he get the point, Like, do we value
that more than ten straight?

Speaker 7 (41:54):
You know?

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Like if Joe Burrow just threw some ungodly Joe Burrows
backs some quarterback throws some un godly amount of touchdown passes,
but doesn't have the totality of Matthew Stafford's career, Like,
how do we value that? You know, like that one
individual season where Saquon was the focal point of every conversation,
wins the Super Bowl, but maybe doesn't have the eight
ten year run.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
I think that we like, gosh, I'm gonna say it, guys,
the it factor. Yeah, and I think that Saquon has it.
And it's not meant to be a popularity, but he
is a difference maker. He made them a completely different team.
I agree. I got I got one. Okay, wait, sorry,
I didn't see you. Were you waving My bad?

Speaker 6 (42:36):
I didn't see it.

Speaker 4 (42:36):
Let's go Sam first, then Manci, Well, how about a
guy who helped open up holes for him?

Speaker 2 (42:41):
This show d be pretty easy. Lane Johnson, I would
think is a full yeah, that's a good yes. Yes,
I think that's so. That's when we can grant quickly. Monci.
I got a couple more names, Moncy ahead, DeVante Adams.
I put a question mark by him.

Speaker 6 (42:54):
I like his numbers are comparable to something like Mike
Evans overall.

Speaker 5 (43:00):
Yes, the ring, the ring is the one thing right missing,
because I thought of Keenan Allen too. Isn't isn't he
stockpiled stats? But there's no ring there? How's he and
Devonte's stock.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, Keenan Allen eleve and seventy four yards. It's good
for fortieth all time, Davante Adams a few spots higher
at thirty third all time, eleven and forty four yards.
Davante doing it in one year less than Keenan Allen.
Keenan Allen's a nice player. I think he'll be a
Chargers Hall of Famer or Ring of Honor guy. I

(43:32):
would not consider Keenan Allen as a Hall of Famer.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
I would say, respectfully, Keenan Allen the reverse it factor.
There's just he doesn't like, you know, like Jamar Chase
has it, Garrett Wilson has it. I don't think of
Keenan Allen like that. Mike Evans has it.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
DeVante Adam's a three time All Pro to have that
six seasons of one thousand yards or more. His career
did get off to a slower start than others and
then developed into that top guy. But if you do
something with the Rams this year, I think that would
that would go a long way. If you have another

(44:13):
thousand yard season, I think that puts you into the
to the list. I'm gonna give you. I'm going to
give you a name. Gosh, okay, I'm gonna give you
a name. He's not playing right now. Controversy surrounding him,
Justin Tucker because of his current situation, we think he's

(44:35):
the greatest kicker of all time. This Justin Tucker no
longer remember of the Baltimore Ravens. Would he get into
the Hall of Fame because of this scandal surrounding him?

Speaker 5 (44:45):
How many field goal kickers are in the Hall of Fame?

Speaker 7 (44:47):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (44:48):
It's just a handful, Yeah, there's yeah. Jan Stener rud
is in, Adam Vinitry uh sue Morton Anderson, right, Yes,
Morton Anderson is in. Yes, I think that's a factor
in this.

Speaker 5 (45:00):
If he played like cornerback and had this scandal, but
he was a Hall of Famer before the scandal.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
I think he gets in. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (45:08):
I don't know if you let a kicker in who's
had this scandal?

Speaker 4 (45:10):
Did he when?

Speaker 2 (45:11):
Did he?

Speaker 4 (45:11):
Was he on the team when they won that Super
Bowl like ten eleven years ago? Okay, so the season
that definitely.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Helps, Yeah, it does. He's I mean when you talk
about who he was, what he was playing. He the
greatest kicker that we have seen in the NFL, and
now you have this this scandal. I think he should
be in. I wasn't going to include him because he
wasn't on a team, But I think that the the
name was the name was interesting. And I'll give you another.

(45:37):
I'll give you two names that aren't. Zach Martin just retired.
I think that he would he would get in. And
Cam Jordan of the Saints. Yeah you had Cam Jordan
written down? Yeah, yep. I think Cam Jordan's in. Anybody else?
Do we miss anybody else?

Speaker 5 (45:51):
I have one go ahead, go ahead, Miles Garrett right now?
Then are out out?

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Wow. Yes, I'd have to go to the stats, have
to go to the ball, and I my gut could
be proven wrong. Jason, you bring him up as a nominee,
did you tilt either way?

Speaker 5 (46:13):
No? He he just feels like a Hall of Famer
to me when I think about him. But I don't
know if the stats back then up and it's still
very young in his career. Maybe, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
One hundred and two and a half sacks, fifty eighth
all time, head of Charles Haley.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Charles Haley's a Hall of Famer, right, he just got
in like three four years ago. Yeah, so he And uh,
you know what if I was quick to put t
J Watt in to that point, yeah, maybe I would
have to change Maybe I would have to change my tune.

Speaker 5 (46:44):
TJ.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
I don't realize he was that high up five and
a half career, more sacks than Miles Garrett does.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Same year got drafted.

Speaker 4 (46:51):
To so Bo Benson came in. He said, what about
Justin Jefferson? Based just on the tear he's on right now,
I said, he's just not playing it long enough.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Here's here's the problem. And this is why the Mike
Evans argument I think is key because of how consistent
he was. It's not easy for receivers to get into
the Hall of Fame. Like there are great receivers that
are still like waiting to be enshrined. So for some reason,
there's this I don't know if it's a bias towards
them or what, but there receivers have had to wait

(47:23):
a long time. They've had to wait a while to
get into the Hall of Fame. Only a very few
are enshrined in their first time out. I mean too
had to wait, you know. So so that's the tricky thing.
So like I'm I think that Justin Jefferson could be
on his way there. He's got the trajectory. But yes,
but it is it is much more difficult for a

(47:45):
wide receiver to get into the Hall of Fame than
maybe any other position. And the DeVante Adams, like we
put him in, like I didn't put DeVante Adams in.
That also is part of the argument. So maybe it's
even tougher for someone like Devonte Adams. I'll be honest.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
When this segment was pitched, I thought it was going
to be a lot more definitives than there actually are.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
And it's not it's not a good or bad thing.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
It's just I would have guessed there was twenty five
no doubt about hers, and what are there about eight
to ten?

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Yes? Yes, and there are alignments and stuff like you
brought up Lane Johnson later on in the conversation that
we didn't have earlier on. But I think that that
was a that's a good no brainer. Mind.

Speaker 6 (48:21):
Did we mention speaking of a lineman. Did we mention
like Chris.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Jones lately he's making a push? Yes, yes, I would
say for what he's done over the last three or
four years, yes, three ring push? Okay, I have a name.
Then this guy, which helps, by the way, ring those
rings do help, if rings help.

Speaker 4 (48:39):
This guy doesn't have his mini and his stats aren't incredible,
but he's been in the league a long time. He
has suit at Kyle van Noy, Yeah, he's only pro
bowler one time, but he has two super Bowl rings
with the Patriots.

Speaker 5 (48:49):
No, I yeah, no, Kyle van No. That's the first
really bad idea. I mean, you have to go to
people have super Bowl rings.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
I mean you have to go to people who have
multiple super rings, right, they don't just end up being those.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
I think they get favored, Like, I'm not do they do.
I don't think Jillian Edelman is a Hall of Famer.
And there are people who are making a case because
of the success that he meant with New England that
he's a Hall of Famer, and I don't, like, I
don't put him in the Justin Jefferson, uh, DeVante Adams
sort of Mike Evans sort of rull.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
And it goes to like what you value and then
also it goes to like the old I keep using
the basketball references, but it's like whose career would you
rather have? Robert or or Carmelo Anthony? You know, And
it's like it's kind of the same same here with
this situation.

Speaker 5 (49:37):
Oh oh oh, one more, right, one more.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Jalen Ramsey, I was trying to think of a dB.
I was like, there has to be some dB with
the numbers.

Speaker 5 (49:47):
Does you have a ring?

Speaker 2 (49:47):
He's got a ring right, the Rams? Yeah, he was
the Rams that year.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
I the best corner for three or four straight years?

Speaker 2 (49:54):
Is that what it was? Yeah, It's tough for me
to judge, Like I I feel like the like Patrick's
or Tanna is on that rising way of like and
he's only been in the league a couple of years
where he can be that guy. Maybe Jalen Ramsey was
that guy for a while. What are his accolades?

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Well, three times first first Team All Pro, seven time
Pro Bowl. You know what's interesting I was thinking about this.
Is it the only position in sports where, in some cases,
the fewer numbers you have the better. He's only got
twenty four career interceptions, But how many times is it
like we're just not throwing to his side of the field.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
And he was a part of the Jacksonville team that
went to the AFC Championship game against New England that
was led on defense. Oh man, it's also part of
a Dolphins team that just completely no showed him. Yeah,
I think that's a good nominee. I'd put him borderline.
I think that he probably would get in in the
end when you give those numbers and where he and

(50:52):
what he's meant to those defensive teams, even though what
I think hurts him is that he's moved around a lot,
which I think hurts Devanta Adams of recent memory. All right, there,
it is midway for today the Midway. He's erintaur As.
I'm Dan Byer. Thanks to Manzi Bolangios, Jason Stewart and
Iowa sam As. It is Hall of Fame weekend. I'm
sure we forgot names. Feel free to pass them along.

(51:13):
I'm at Dan Byer on Fox. You can find Aaron
at Aaron Underscore Torres.

Speaker 7 (51:17):
Fox Sports Radio had the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio
dot Com and within the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
He's erin tourre As. I'm Dan Byer in for Doug
Gottlieb Today, Doug taking in some day baseball Monty Blagos.
He'll have an update for us about what's happening in
Milwaukee between the Cubs and Brewers. Doug taking in that
nf NL Central showdown. Hit aerin up at Aaron Underscore Torres.
You can find me at Dan Byer on Fox. Monty
will have the update in five minutes for us. We

(51:47):
are going to dive into college football because camps are opening.
We had Dion Sanders making the announcement that he battled
bladder cancer this past summer. It's going to return to
coaching full time. Great to hear, uh, Dion is cancer free?
Aze doctor say, and let me ask you a quick question.
I'm me to cut you off. I know you're in.

Speaker 3 (52:08):
That press conference was ten Pacific, eleven Mountain. I would
imagine there was a possibility prepping for the Doug Gottlieb Show.
Did you hear the Dion press conference live?

Speaker 2 (52:18):
I did not know. I just heard the clips that No,
it was.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
It was pretty surreal live because you know you're going in,
you know he has this health problem, and you know
you have these buckets.

Speaker 5 (52:29):
You know.

Speaker 3 (52:29):
Some people think that, oh, he's you know, announcing that,
you know, whatever it is, he's fine. You have some
people think that there's some serious health issue. You have
some people think, oh, he's retiring because he only wanted
to coach his son. So I just asked because I
saw it live, having no idea what to expect, and
when they dropped some of the stuff that they dropped,
it was pretty heavy, and I thought, because of the

(52:50):
workflow that you have getting ready for this show and everything,
that you might have seen it live.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
That was the only reason I asked. It's also on
the drive in as well, driving into work, but he
is herein Torres I'm buyer Jason Stewarts here, as is
Iowa Sam. We mentioned Manti at the news desk. College
football takes center stage for another reason because the debate continues.
Media days are wrapped up, camps are now open, but
the debate continues over the format. We still don't know

(53:14):
in the future if we're going to have a twelve
school or a sixteen school format, and what the format
would be if we end up changing the format of
the bracket that is currently one year old in its
current form, which by the way, is changed from the
previous form already. This is what's at stake here. The
SECS and others want five automatic bids for the conference

(53:38):
champions and eleven at large bids. The Big Ten now
seemingly by themselves, want a scenario where they in the
SEC get four automatic bids, the Big twelve and the
ACAC get two automatic bids. You have a group of
six champion that would get an automatic bid, and then
you would have three at large bids. And it seems

(54:01):
that the other leagues, to my surprise, Big twelve in
ACC are now siding with the SEC and all of this,
and the Big ten feels like it's the lone Wolf
now Tony Petiti supported it at the Big Ten media days,
feel says he feels that it's the fairest I'm on
the side of that erin because I don't know, as

(54:22):
crazy as it sounds, and Brett Ormark can say what
he wants, I don't know if the other conferences know
what they're getting into if they do a five plus eleven.
I think that on the surface, it looks like it's
open up to everyone, but in how we consume college
football and how we judge college football, I just don't
think that's the case, especially for those league members, and

(54:45):
so in a way, it's kind of a take what
you can get and then maybe there's more on the backside.
I just don't see a scenario where if you're the
ACC or the Big Twelve, that you're getting four schools
into this bracket, so you better take what you can
get so you don't end up having just one school in.
That's why I support the Big Ten and their their

(55:07):
reasoning for having the four plus four and others.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
Okay, so it's really interesting that you frame it that way,
because that was my initial thought. I remember whenever this
format first started. I remember actually talking to Chris Plank,
who hosts on weekends along you know, not with me,
but on the you know, same time windows whatever.

Speaker 5 (55:25):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
He obviously Oklahoma football is very heavily involved, and I
think he and I are both of our defaults were
great for the ACC. You're gonna get a second team,
even though most years you haven't had a second team.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
That's worthy.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
The counter that I have heard that I do think
makes sense is that by default, because we call them,
we call them the power four, right, the SEC, the
Big Ten, the ACC and the Big Twelve. I think
in theory we know the ACC the SEC have more
power than the other two conferences and certainly everybody else
in college football. But by doing the four four two

(55:58):
two one model, besides, it's all the other stuff which
we can get into if we have time.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
I don't know if we will.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
The ACC and Big twelve are also unofficially admitting that
they are not actually on the same level as the
Big Ten in the SEC, and so I actually see
both sides from that perspective. Again, I remember talking about
it six months ago of like, ACC should be thankful
get that second team in. But then I do think
it's a fair point of you're basically acknowledging that we're

(56:26):
calling you the power for. We may know that you're
not really the power for, but this actually tangibly proves
that it's a power too.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
And then two behind them, and you're saying, in an
indirect way, you're admitting that you're not only up to
that level, but that your resume is not sufficient because
you're at that second tier.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
The resume would speak for itself, but I think it's
a public perception thing. And then it gets into the
recruiting stuff.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Go God, I don't think the resume does speak for
itself if you're if you're considered a lower one. And
the reason being is I think that we don't get
the resumes in the right way. That's the argument of
the SEC. I think that I think that we and
I actually feel like we look at the SEC in
eight game schedule versus nine game schedule is a topic
that's talked about a lot. We focus so much on

(57:14):
losses in college football, and so the fewer losses you get,
the better it is for you. And there is in
college basketball, if you have a thirty and four team
and one that's twenty nine to five negligible You're not
sitting there saying, but a four loss team to a
five lost team in college football, or a three loss

(57:34):
team to a four lost team, we are it's a cavern.
And I feel that when you're looking at this, when
you take those three losses by a school and say, well,
look they only had three losses, and you take the
four school, you take the worst loss of the fourth
of the four loss school, and then you harp on that,
and that to me is the problem is. I do
feel like the SEC would get an advantage. I do

(57:56):
think that there is an SEC biased and so by
when you are deciding then with the eleven at large,
we're always going to default to the SEC because we
think it's a gauntlet of a league. And I don't
know how the other conferences don't see that, like I
feel the actually the Big Ten is in a way
of like, okay, no offense, Iowa Sam. I'm gonna use

(58:18):
Iowa as an example. But if the Big Ten has
their version of their playing games, which is another level
of all of this, and a six seed Iowa comes
in and ends up upsetting the third seed Penn State
Nitney Lions, and Iowa gets the you know, gets the
at large bid. Iowa earned it because that's what was
at stake at that time, where I think the sixth

(58:39):
place team in the SEC without that format, people would
still say, well, Arkansas is pretty good. There were eight
and you know they were six and two in conference.
This year they were eight and four or nine and
four overall. Like that's like, I think we look at
what the SEC does in their fifth and sixth place
team would get an advantage over others or at least

(59:01):
the Big ten is saying we're gonna put ours to
the test really quick.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
That was the entire and this was the biggest takeaway
that I had from the twelve team playoff era for
a year. One is that no matter how many teams
you let in, the SEC is always going to argue
that they should get more. And the argument last year was,
I mean, Alabama, will they beat Georgia, Well, they beat
South Carolina. It's like, yeah, they also lost to Vanderbilt,
and they also lost to a bad Oklahoma team, and

(59:26):
so it's like, I like, I think there's absolutely something
to that from the perspective of there's just this default
that losses shouldn't matter in the SEC and that win
should mean more, and I don't think that's the case.
And you know, it's something we don't have time to
talk about now, but it's like, I do wonder what

(59:47):
it will actually take for that perception change, because we're
coming off back to back seasons where the Big Ten
has won the national championship, back to back seasons where
the SEC didn't even play for a national championship, And
I'm just curious how long it takes before the public
admits it, because now the argument has gone from we're
definitively the best team to the best league too. Well,
we haven't had a champion in two years, but we're
the deepest league. And it's like, okay, so how many

(01:00:09):
more years until we acknowledge it? Maybe the Big ten
is is deep that maybe the best team in the
Big twelve camp, you know. So I it's a nuanced conversation.
I know we got to get to Monty, but there's
a lot of layers to this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
I'll just quickly say this and Mancy be ready, then
we will go to you quick. The question of heading
into this year that I think is interesting in all
this is is the SEC in a better spot than
they were a year ago? And I say yes for
the sole reason of sm you lost to Penn State.
I know Arizona took Texas to the wire, but they
ended up losing. Poise State lost to Penn State. So

(01:00:42):
you had a final four of two Big Ten teams,
an SEC team, and Notre Dame. And so now when
you're looking at the schools that did bow out, Clemson
loses to Texas. In that case, you're like, well, look
those schools in Big twelve and the the ACC, they
didn't really do much damage. So now if you're the
committee and you're trying to tilt, which we've seen at times,

(01:01:03):
Mountain WESTCTS screwed mountin Westketts screwed all of a sudden,
mount West has six teams in the NCAA Tournament for
men's basketball. Like now, the SEC, there's this shift of
maybe ACC and Big twelve isn't a strong so let's
put these SEC schools in there.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
And I make one thirty second point. I think that's
actually why this year is super important for Clemson. Clemson
has a team that is good enough to compete with
anybody in college football. If they get to a playoff
and they get blown out by Texas or Georgia or whatever.
I actually don't know if the ACC ever recovers where
I think it's the opposite.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
You can build on that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
If they make a national championship, beat the SEC champion
along the way, they have to be really good.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
By the way they open with LSU at home. That's
a big game for them as well.

Speaker 7 (01:01:46):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific