August 5, 2025 • 35 mins
On a Tuesday edition of the Best Of The Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug reacts to the news that the Los Angeles Rams have signed their pro-bowl running back Kyren Williams and weighs in on the running back market.
Doug welcomes Former NFL general manager and three-time Super Bowl winner Michael Lombardi onto the show to talk footbal and to discuss his new booK “FOOTBALL DONE RIGHT: Setting the Record Straight on the Coaches, Players, and History of the NFL” available where you buy your books today.
Doug tries to set people straight about Shedeur Sanders and his value as a pro.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching f as R. What
we have a tendency to do and this is where
(00:24):
like politics and sports kind of have become one. And
it's it's a little sad, but you also just have
to take a breath with it. That when the impetus
of it was Fox News was brilliant. They would put
whoever was the left commentator on the left on the screen,
(00:44):
and then like Pat Robertson or somebody who deserved to
the right on the right of the screen, and they
would argue out And what politics does is it take
it'll take outlier things and use them as a narrative, right,
use them as a narrative. And I don't necessarily need
(01:05):
to go into detail about the topics, but if you
think about it, right, you're like, wait, late term abortions,
things that don't actually happened often or at all used
as a big narrative, just like when you have abuse
of citizens on some level. Right, there can be bad
(01:26):
actors in any profession and caught on tape. But when
you use social media and you use the power of
traditional media and you get somebody saying this is what
happens all the time when they're taking a real snapshot, right,
sports is much the same. I mean, think of Tua
Tungo Bailoa, going back a couple of years ago in training,
(01:46):
can't remember when the Dolphins would keep putting out time
and time again. They would put out videos of Tua
throwing the ball deep down the field, remember that, and
most of us would sit there and go like, well,
that's what are we doing here? Because Tua the arm strength,
(02:09):
the ball wobbles, it's just a deep ball in practice
when he's not getting hit, he doesn't have to hold
on the ball, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So
you may be asking yourself, okay, wait, wait, how does
Kyen Williams. How's Karen Williams relate to Tua tongue of iyloa?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
How does that work? And I'll tell you very simply.
Kyen Williams signs a three year deal, which, as Dan
Byer told you at the top of the hour, is
really a two year deal at twenty three million dollars guaranteed,
which fits right in line with what running backs had
been making previous to last offseason. And you kind of
(02:50):
go back to the last five years and last year
or the last two years. We've been sitting here at
this point in time, and I feel like I've been
the voice of reasons saying none of that actually matters. Right,
No one's given them a third year guaranteed because it's
a bad investment and the running back market isn't moving
a ton. And what happens. Saquon Barkley has an unbelievable
(03:15):
season with the Philadelphia Eagles, unbelievable, and the Eagles, though
they didn't have to, they go in there and say, hey,
one year in we're going to rework your deal. We're
going to make it two more years guaranteed. In other words,
it was three years guaranteed. But that's not the deal
that he signed. He signed a deal that was on
par with all those other deals. Matter of fact, the
(03:36):
deal he signed with Eagles was only worth one million
dollars more through the life of it than what the
Giants were paying him. And this isn't to say that
it wasn't brilliant to sign with the Eagles. I've said
this before, though he gave away, kicked away all of
the Giants reunion stuff, the chance to be in New York,
can be a New York Giants running back and be
the Tekey bar, the next te Key Barbar, et cetera.
(03:59):
This changes to jectory as a football player like nothing
else you could think of. He goes from the best
player and a bad team to the best player on
the best team in football. But the actual contract that
he signed wasn't some groundbreaking deal. Derrick Henry's contract wasn't.
Josh jacobs contract wasn't some groundbreaking deal. And to all
(04:24):
of those like myselves who would tell you that, hey,
they more than lived up to that deal in year one,
the argument had never been a little bit had been
over what the scale was year one, year two, but
most of it was are you going to guarantee us
that third year? And I brought up the outlier arguments
that become narratives, because that's what we're doing with running backs.
(04:48):
We're gonna use the outlier of Saquon Barkley and say hey,
this is the new model, this is what running backs
are worth. And they're like, yeah, well, Karen Williams side
a deal that's right in line with all those guys
from the previous year. For I'm not telling you to
not watch sports on TV or not have these insane
sports arguments that people had, But the truth is always
(05:10):
closer towards the middle and what it says for what
it says for the running back position. And you know,
the Buffalo Bills buyer, was it was it you who
told me yesterday that the Bills are now the odds
on favorite to win the Super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yes, yeah, so I was listening and we did it
in the press, right.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So Dan shared with us that the Buffalo Bills are
the favorite to reach the Super Bowl. And now they're
currently practicing without their starting running back. Now you could
make the argument, you know, they have the starting running back.
His name is Josh Allen. He's under understander playing quarterback.
But again, all of these arguments are are exactly the
(05:55):
same as the ones we've had over the past three years.
And so instead of getting caught up in Saquon and
what he got and the Eagles ripping up his deal
and giving him a contract far above the market. Kyra
Williams is telling you where the market is. Three years
(06:16):
at thirty three, twenty three guaranteed, and if you're a starting,
high caliber, top ten in your craft short of running back,
that's about what you should be expecting. That's about what
you expect should expect. That's not the rank and file.
Rank and files are the guys that are just fighting
(06:36):
for a roster spot. There's two or three on every roster,
right There's guys that come in you've never heard of before.
They do special teams, you know, on passing only situations.
They're back there really to block on third down. Like
those are the rank and file guys. These are a
notch below stars, a notch below stars. Starting running backs.
(07:03):
Three years, thirty three, that's right there with what Saquon,
Josh Jacobs, all of those guys between nine, eleven, nine
and twelve going back last year. It's a slight increase
over it in year to year, but reality is it's
a two year contract.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yes, Dan seventh amongst running backs in the NFL, and
average annual salary.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
There you go, it's about right, right, and this is
from a coach who's been into Super Bowls, won a
Super Bowl, seen as the best offensive coach in football,
and one who values running the football. But he's not
going to overvalue it to where he tips the scale
and he can't afford other things. And this is a
good contract. So my point is, don't listen to outlier
(07:48):
arguments that people want to make into narratives. The running
back market has not changed a great deal, nor should it.
It's a position that you just can't protect from injury
the way you can as much at wide receiver. Definitely,
not like quarterback or anything else. You just can't. They
have not changed the rules inside the tackles running the football,
(08:11):
So it's not necessarily about value. It's about durability. It's
about availability and the likelihood that you know, three years
after signing a contract, you're still going to be the
player or a better version of the player that you
are when you sign that contracts. That's a hard argument
(08:31):
to make. And again you could say, well, look at
Derick Henry. Again, that's an outlier. Dereck Henry is in
everybody else, and Derek Henry doesn't really catch it out
of the backfield there's other things he doesn't do, but
a man he can run downhill. But I'm not trying
to question Derrick Henry. I'm telling you that that's again
the exception, say Kwon Barkley is the exception. The rule
(08:53):
is we're right about there, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, somewhere
schmushed in the middle, and you're gonna get two with
a little bit in that third year. But I think
there's a lot of people who sat there on their
couch and saw Josh Jacobs perform incredibly well. Aaron Jones
played really really well. You saw Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry,
(09:16):
and you're sitting there going stick that to the man,
give those running back quick contracts. And I told you
throughout the year, that's great. The argument wasn't oversightning those players.
It was over the yearly, but mostly over how many
years guaranteed? And everybody's falling back onto everybody's falling back
on too.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
This is the best of the Don dot Leb Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
It's the Doug gott Lieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
And the new author of a book, and of course
he's written other books, but it's called football done right.
It's Michael Lombardi. He joins us on the Doug Gottlieb
Show on Fox Sports Radio. And you've basically done everything
at the professional level of football, right from being a
(10:05):
general manager to being kind of the consingly area you
name it, and then of course covering the game periodically
throughout the last fifteen or so years, as well as
getting back into business now moving to the college side.
But it's kind of the professionalization of the college side.
What's it like for you.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
It's been fun, Doug, It's been great. I think you
nailed that. It is a professional sport. I mean, look
what players are getting paid, which they deserve to get
paid because of the revenue that they've generated for the
universities across the board and now to help other sports,
help and help other sports and also help the institution.
(10:43):
But it's been fun, I mean, other than attending an
academic meaning my job is pretty much the same as
it was working at all the NFL teams. It's salary
cap it's team buildings, understanding how to utilize your money
that you have available to you and in the best
way possible.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I think. So what's interesting is obviously your level, you
guys are able to break it apart where Coach Belichick
does football and you do your the you're the GM, right,
So there's there's a separate, a little a slight separation
of church and state. My level, I kind of do everything.
We We hired a hire, we have a GM who's
a former player who's going to help us. But it's
(11:23):
not to the level that that you're doing. So I
guess here's the first question that all guys ask them,
we all ask each other, is are you are you
tearing it or are you going after certain guys and
being like, what what is your what's the general plan
for how you guys do what you do within the
scope of your salary structure.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, I mean everything about the job that I have
is the same as the job in professional football. You
have to grade the players accurately to then determine how
much you tell them. You know, the NFL draft is
all about how much money. It's all money the NFL draft.
If you get picked the first pick in the second round,
you make X. If you get picked the last pick
in the seventh round, you make why. And that why
(12:06):
in that X has to be equated to a description
this player will come in and start immediately. He'll make
a huge impact on the team, and he'll be All
conference or whatever. Whatever the description is. That translates into
how much you should pay the player. Where you get
in trouble is when you have a guy you grade
as a backup player and you pay him like a starter.
(12:27):
That's when you get in trouble. So the first thing
you have to do is put together a grading system
that allows you to accurately grade the players.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Do you use analytic companies or do you use your
own grading system in your own film breakdown?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
No, we use our own system. I mean, football is
different than baseball. We're not as analytical as we have
some elements of analytics. But I mean, look, you know
if analytics breaks down a game, do they tell you
who's on the field? Right? I Mean it's easy to say,
you know, get into a level and personnel and throw
the ball. It's the best. But if Reggie White's the
(13:03):
right end and the left end and you're the right
tackle can't block anybody, do you really want to throw
the ball? I mean that's the fundamental question, right. It's
all about how the players intertwine with the plays. Do
I think it's important to have some form of analytics,
of course, but to sit there and think that you
can carry the load with analytics, it's a little bit
(13:25):
naive in the sense that you just do you have
to know who's on the field. Do you have to
judge the players? Right? You want to go after Rod Woodson,
who I wrote about football done Right? Good? Go after them?
Everybody did? They double moved them early in the game
because after that you weren't going to get another play
on them. So it's about how to incorporate plays and players.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
In the new book Football Done Right? Did you when
you started it? Because I mean, look, anybody's written a
book or thought about writing a book knows it takes
a while. When you started, though, your your job and
your job description was completely differ, right. Was there any
thought of college football when you started putting pin of paper?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Oh no, no, not at all. I didn't think I
would get back into the team side of it, you know,
having worked in the NFL, and when you get older.
In the NFL, he required to make too much money
and nobody wants to pay so, you know, I felt
like I had a good job working on the media side,
and I was enjoying that. And I love writing books.
I mean, my first book, wrid O Genus has sold
(14:27):
really well. In this book here gave me a lot
of pleasure to write. In fact, I felt really on
this past weekend. I felt vindicated because one of the
major themes of the book was why Sterling Sharp wasn't
in the NFL. It's the reason I really one of
the reasons why I started to write the book was
the injustice given a Sharp and look what happened. He
(14:48):
got in the NFL. Not because of my book, but
people became aware of the injustice. You know, he said
he didn't play long enough, well even to Terrell Davis,
either to Tony Basselli. But so one of the rules,
you know what is long enough? And I think that's
why I wrote it and I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
What about coach Belichick, you know, he again at least
what we were told was man, he really valued intelligence
right in the players that you guys drafted. You go
back to your days with the Patriots. How has he
adjusted to even smart college troll players hail in comparison
(15:29):
to the level of football intelligence he's used to dealing with.
What's this process been like in terms of trying to
evaluate and trying to coach players of different levels of
football intelligence.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well, you know, every football team, whether you're in high school,
whether you're in college or pro, you become who you
want to be. And everybody here knows we're looking for smart, tough,
and dependable players. And when you walk in the building,
that's the first thing everybody he could hit with. We
want smart, tough, independable, and if you're not smart, tough
and dependentle, you won't be on our team. So that's
what he wants, and that's the kind of player that
(16:03):
we're trying to build within the framework of the team.
You know, football teams become who they want to be.
If you want a fat team, you'll sign fat players.
If you want a skinny you'll sign skinning players. Right, Well,
we want smart, tough, and dependable, which if we if
they're smart, tough, independent, and they're self aware, we'll make
them better players, will allow them to grow and develop.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
In football. Then right, you talked about Sterling Sharp, who
got in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Okay, so
does that does Terrell Davis Sterling Sharp, Tony Bisselli? Does
that open the door for even a priest. Holmes right,
very short career, but very dominant in that short period time.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, I mean I think he deserves I think part
of what I wanted to do and why. If you
go to the back of the book, you know I
wrote I wrote why I wrote the book. And you know,
if you ever watch Larry David Curb your enthusiasm, he
had an episode called the Middler where whoever sits at
the middle of a table at a dinner party is
responsible to stir up conversation. I think that's a really
good conversation to have. You know, what is the criteria?
(17:04):
I think every position should have a criteria. I put
a criteria in there for coaches so we could stop
the debate is this guy a good player? See, it's
just no different than a grading system in football. If
you don't have a system, everybody just argues back and
forth whether the guy's good enough. When you have a
system that describes what the player with the qualifications that
must be meant to get into the club, there's no
(17:27):
more debate. You know. For example, Marty Schottenhammer has won
two hundred games in his NFL coaching career, two hundred.
There's only nine people that have coached out of the
five hundred plus people that have called themselves head coach
that have achieved that level of success, one out of
five hundred and nine out of five hundred and seventy five.
(17:50):
And he's not in the Hall of Fame. If you're
in that exclusive club, don't you think you belong in
the Hall of Fame. Yeah, there shouldn't be a debate.
He should be automatic. Just admitted. It shouldn't come to
a vote. But he well, he has not won a
super Bowl. Okay, Marv Lee, he didn't win a super Bowl. Well,
he didn't get to a super Bowl. Well, George Allen
went to one super Bowl. You know, the only coach
(18:12):
ten years. He had a seventy percent winning percentage. He
lost at fourteen to seven to the Miami Dolphins in
the undefeated season. But he's in the Hall of Fame.
I mean, so, like, what is if there's no criteria,
all that happens is it becomes an argument.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yep, pretty much right. It's it's like the Constitution. We
picked the ones that we picked, the things we like, don't.
We try to diminish the things we don't. We do
the same with the Bible, and we do the same
thing with with arbitrary sports arguments, where we'll leave things
out because it doesn't support an argument.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Right. And if somebody has as well as one favor
with the media and they the media like them, they'll
push the player to get into the Hall of Fame.
You know, they'll want the guy. I mean that was
the point. You know, certain guys got pushed and they
deserve to go in the Hall of Fame. Maybe they did,
maybe they didn't, but there should be an order, you know,
Mike Homegren's want you know, he belows Mike Shanahan. We
(19:08):
would have what would have the zone outside run play
one of one of the major injustices, Clark Shaughnessy. We
wouldn't have a forward pass if it wasn't for Clark Shaughnessy.
But yet we can't. Clark Shaughnessy's not in the Hall
of Fame.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
How does Aaron Rodgers do in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I mean, I don't know enough about about how he looks,
and I haven't paid any attention to the NFL to
really say, but I think Arthur Smith's are a really
good coach. I think Mike Comlins a really good coach,
And I think if he follows the program, you know,
the program. One player is not going to win for you.
It's going to be the program. And I think if
he follows the program, that will really help.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Last thing, I know, you got to in the NFL,
I've been told the hit rate for free and C
is like thirty three percent. Right, what do you think
a reasonable hit rate in year one for you would
be at North Carolina? In it? You mean for recruiting, Yeah,
in terms of evaluate guys achieving what you thought they
(20:06):
would achieve.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
When you're well, I mean we have seventy new players
on the team. Does it's hard. It's a completely new team.
I think to me, it's about one day at a time.
We've got to build it. We're building a culture. I mean,
that's the most important thing. When you walk into this building,
you'll feel a culture, you know, and that's what more
is the most important element of what we're doing. Once
you build a culture, then all of a sudden you've
(20:29):
developed multipliers, you know, multiple you know what multipliers are
players of course, multiplayers, and so that's that's what we're doing.
And so that takes time, but it's also worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
It is worthwhile, so is picking up this book. It's
called Football Done Right. You can pick up his other
book as well, it's outher by Michael Lombardi. Course works
for North Carolina football. He's kind of to spend some
time this picked up Football Done Right. Mike, thanks so
much for joining us. I know you're busy. Really appreciate
your time.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
By Fox Sports Radio had the best sport talk lineup
in the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
What about you don got leap show Fox Sports Radio
iHeartRadio app. Welcome, Welcome in Man. We just over talked
on that amusement park ride and Dan Byer had some
great other stuff on his on his rank order sheet.
We might need to get to that. Be sure to
subscribe to our Fox Sports Radio YouTube channel. Just search
(21:28):
Fox Sports Radio on YouTube and you'll see the best
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Trading YouTube, click the bell icon on the homepage and
turn on all notifications so you have easy access to
our very best videos. So this is a this is
(21:52):
a personal thing that I despise and I don't really
know what to do about it. So just let's just
talk about it. There are always going to be people
that insist somehow Shador Sanders was done wrong by the world, right,
and we've I don't need to, We don't need to
relitigate the Shador Sanders and where he was drafted thing.
(22:16):
You know, it's super interesting. I mean, probably the best
thing to happen to us in the NBA draft sadly
happened to uh, Bronnie James, was Bronnie had the heart issue,
because otherwise there would have been some people who do
rankings that will be like, hey, Bronnie James top ten
(22:36):
prospect on I think Jonathan Gavoni's list, and he should
go because Bronnie James had the heart issue. Forget about
the fact that he didn't start when he was at
se They didn't have a good year, he didn't have
particularly good year because he had the heart issue. Was
like he wasn't gonna have a good year anyway. So
you know, second round picks about right, and we all
(22:58):
knew when the Lakers were picking, and that's where about
he would go. And so what there wasn't this So
the celebrity Dad Draftee is definitely a thing, right, definitely
a thing. So I'm not going to relitigate where Shouduur
should have gone. It's just really important to understand there
(23:19):
are thirty two NFL teams and we went through two
days of drafting and he had not been selected. They
had plenty of time, so it wasn't and there was
no collusion. There's just everybody involved was like, she's just
not good enough considering you know, the pressure you're going
(23:41):
to get to play him, and the talent that he
may or may not have, and then the way which
she carries himself. So he's at fourth on the depth
chart with the Browns. And I'll be honest, Dylan Gabriel,
who was drafted around ahead of him, I've never been
I've never watched Dylan Gabriel play at Florida or at
Oklahoma and be like, you know what, that's an NFL quarterback.
(24:07):
But he was drafted ahead of Shador and so he's
gonna get kind of right. A first refusal. Here's Shador
Sanders when he was asked what we should expect from
him in his first NFL preseason game.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Have you watched me at Collins?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
But you know a little bit of that going on.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
I'm still the same guy, you know, I don't nothing
happened to me.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, and look, I think it's a good quarterback, a
definitely good college quarterback. But you know, it's it's gonna
be interesting. And I saw Robert Griffin third, who now
works for us at Fox, talking about how he's been
done wrong by the Browns and it's gonna make people
pay for such little reps in the he's the fourth quarterback.
(24:52):
What did you expect in terms of number of reps?
Volumes of reps? And we're going to hyper focus on
his performance in his first preseason game, and if if
he has good numbers, we're going to say it's really good,
no matter if it was the right reads or how
average the defense or talent that he's going against was.
But there is nothing abnormal about your second quarterback drafted
(25:13):
being fourth in the depth chart when you have two
previous NFL starters and a guy drafted ahead of him,
ahead of him on the on the you know, in
the pecking order. But my private frustration is over people
that cherry picks stats from the Internet and make a
(25:35):
statement about who played well in a practice where you
have zero idea, what they were trying to accomplish, where
they were going against, or what it looked like zero.
What do I think happens? I think Flacco starts. I
think at some point Kenny Picken, Kenny Pickett gets a shot.
I think they have to hold on to Dylan Gabriel.
(25:57):
I think they might carry they might carry four. Remember
they still have Deshaun Watson under contract. He just tores
Achilles ten in twice. So you know, I don't know
if they do they would you drop by Kenny Pickett
who's started in the NFL for a couple of years
over a Dylan Gabriel and a Shdore Sanders knowing that
(26:19):
next year's Brown's quarterback probably isn't on the roster, probably
isn't on the roster. Byra how do you think? How
do you think this turns out? I mean, and by
the way, the I Once Reflex podcast is dance podcast.
It's awesome if you need fantasy information to get your
draft coming up as well, give me your best guess.
(26:40):
We don't know who gets hurt. We don't know how
it works. I do think that that Flacco somewhere early
to mid season gets pulled I think Kenny Pickett gets
a shot. I'm guessing they find a way to carry
three or four. I just don't know if Shore Sanders
is one of those guys.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, And just to backtrack a little, like we believe
that Kenny at one point was number one and Joe
Flacco is number two. Then Pikett gets injured and now
the depth chart comes out and Flacco is number one
on that. I think they really wanted to see what
Kenny Pickett had for whatever reason, and I think that's
why he was going to get the opportunity up until
(27:18):
this hamstring issue that he's been dealing with. The bottom half,
Doug is the part where it's changed for me, because
I do think in the last forty eight hours there
is a scenario where Shador Sanders doesn't make this team.
And the only reason I say that is because I
feel that if you are Andrew Berry and you're Kevin Stefanski,
(27:40):
the way that you can take your control back, or
at least some of the power back, and it may
fly in the face of what the Haslms wanted. Even
if Jimmy Haslm said it was Andrew Berry's decision, it's
still a fifth round pick and they have been cut before,
and the fifth round picks have not made rosters before.
So if you're the Cleveland Browns and you feel that
you have something this season, then maybe Shudour doesn't make it.
(28:04):
That's entered into my mind over these last couple of
days because I just don't know. I don't know who
else would want Kenny Pickett. I don't understand the signing
of Flacco and Picket. If you're gonna deal one of
them like that doesn't make much sense to me. So
just the fact of Shador not getting reps with the
the Ones for a decent amount of training camp or
(28:26):
against the number one defense, that's that kind of brought
into the equation. All right, Well, maybe the Browns don't
have a future with shaudor Sanders.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I can tell you one thing. I know Jase two
so badly once I'm on that team as third string quarterback,
because Jason likes storylines, and that's a great storyline.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Accurate, Jason, are you trying to represent me as a
person that loves great storylines?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (28:54):
Yeah, no, I love them.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, And Shadur being like the third string quiquarterback is
exactly what we need. Exactly what he because then you're
gonna have a portion of people literally hoping that Joe
Flacco's terrible and whoever replaced him also terrible, and that
Chador comes in riding the white horse and saves the day.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
With the By the way, just a side note with
the Browns on that storyline, and then we can bring
it back. Remember they traded down from two to five yep,
and picked up Jacksonville's first round pick next year. And again,
what could be a great quarterback draft? You right now
don't have your second round pick sign because of a
(29:38):
domestic violence arrest. Has it been the greatest of off
seasons for the Brons in that regard? Like, there's gonna
be a point where you're gonna start looking towards the
future and Dylan Gabriel's future may not even be as
part of the cards and you use the third round
pick on him. So they do the deal with Jacksonville
getting a first round or next year. But you look
(30:01):
back at what they've done just in since this draft,
and it's been I know, the Judkins thing isn't their fault,
but it's better.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
How's it not their fault?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Well?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Well, just I mean I don't think that there were
any there was anything behind quinch On Judkins.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I don't know how they would be at fault and not.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Necessarily at fault. I mean, but listen, I can you
know and we don't know, and I don't know what
the background looks like, but I can tell you that
it's you got to pay a lot of attention to it.
It's it's just about everything is what kind of person
we deal with here, so and it you know, it's
early on. Hopefully it's nothing. Hopefully that it's a it's
(30:45):
an overreaction. I don't know. I don't know enough about it.
I don't want any any woman to ever be abused
by a man ever. But yeah, I mean, and.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
That happened after they drafted him.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Though no I know, but it's still part of you know,
I don't Again, I didn't do the background research. I'm
just saying. And Deshaun Watson, by the way, if you
went to his background when he was coming out of college,
people thought he was a saint. So they can't fool you.
Absolutely can fool you. But you're right, You're right, Dan.
I mean, like your second round pick's got a DV
(31:21):
and your third round pick looks like he's a high
school quarterback. Yeah right, and you're like and yeah, and
now you got Schador Sanders, and what if shed Door
Sanders is decent? Then you're like, well, we want to
we did this whole thing so we could take an
elite quarterback next year. And this happens.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
As good as a storyline. It will be if he's
on the roster. I think the great twenty four hour
news cycle when he if he's ever cut by the Browns, yeah,
I think that would be the end of mel Kiper.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
He will be if he gets cut, he will be
the Coln Kaepernick of this season. Somebody's playing poorly. It's like,
you know, they should call they should call Shador Sanders, right.
I mean like there's Kirk Cousins is available and Shadoor
Sanders is available, and there will be people that will
(32:18):
say the two are the same thing. Well, you know,
Kirk Cousins, he's older, he's got that achilles. I'd rather
have Shador Sanders. I'm telling you right now, he's the
next Kaepernick. By say Kaepernick, I'm not talking about polarizing protesting.
I'm talking about how that became kind of like the
go to for people who don't know anything about football,
and just the last how many years is the Kaepernick think?
(32:41):
Was it thirteen? Was last year he played?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Right?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
But it's been like the last I don't know, six
seven years where people have people go like, you know,
they should call Colin Kaepernick. Now they're going to say,
you know what they should call Schadoor Sanders. I'll tell
you what. I take a look at your door stand.
Even if he couldn't beat out Kenny Pickett, Old, Joe
Flacco and Dylan Gabriel, You Jay Stu searches for content
(33:12):
and conflict, right and the opposite of whatever BS is,
right Danielle all three, I think I did.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Yep, and I think that there's but I do think
that mel Kuiper would cease to exist. And I'm not
talking about our you know, as a NFL draft analyst.
I think he would have a heart attack. He has
so much in the Shaduur Sanders easter basket that he
if he was cut by an NFL team, that means
(33:40):
that he wasn't a top five overall pick in the draft,
which mel Kuiper screamed. He was through the draft, through
the draft from the very beginning of his draft analysis.
Through the third day of the draft, mel Kuiper was
telling us that Shadueur Sanders is a top five pick.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, I don't see it, and he would have to
be Tom Brady, which you know, I thought. I read
an article yesterday which was interesting, which is I didn't
know how much Tom Brady was involved with the Raiders,
but he was involved obviously with the Raiders. Where now
he's on the field at practice at training camp with
a Raider's shirt on, and he had worked with Shador
(34:25):
and yet the Raiders took drafted other quarterbacks. You know,
it had plenty of opportunities to draft him, which sounds like, yeah,
he worked with stories like yeah, no thanks, no thanks.
Even that answer, while there's nothing wrong with the answer,
(34:46):
you saw me in college, right, Well that's kind of
a loaded thing, right, Yeah, we saw you in college.
I mean, you guys were thirteen and twelve in college,
high completion percentage, you had Travis Hunter, but you know
you held on the ball a little bit too much.
You saw me in college, right, I'm the same guy. Well,
this is a little bit higher level of competition. Again,
(35:08):
nothing wrong with the answer, it's not like you can
sit there and go like this is the wrong answer
for it, but it's not the right answer
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching f as R. What
we have a tendency to do and this is where
(00:24):
like politics and sports kind of have become one. And
it's it's a little sad, but you also just have
to take a breath with it. That when the impetus
of it was Fox News was brilliant. They would put
whoever was the left commentator on the left on the screen,
(00:44):
and then like Pat Robertson or somebody who deserved to
the right on the right of the screen, and they
would argue out And what politics does is it take
it'll take outlier things and use them as a narrative, right,
use them as a narrative. And I don't necessarily need
(01:05):
to go into detail about the topics, but if you
think about it, right, you're like, wait, late term abortions,
things that don't actually happened often or at all used
as a big narrative, just like when you have abuse
of citizens on some level. Right, there can be bad
(01:26):
actors in any profession and caught on tape. But when
you use social media and you use the power of
traditional media and you get somebody saying this is what
happens all the time when they're taking a real snapshot, right,
sports is much the same. I mean, think of Tua
Tungo Bailoa, going back a couple of years ago in training,
(01:46):
can't remember when the Dolphins would keep putting out time
and time again. They would put out videos of Tua
throwing the ball deep down the field, remember that, and
most of us would sit there and go like, well,
that's what are we doing here? Because Tua the arm strength,
(02:09):
the ball wobbles, it's just a deep ball in practice
when he's not getting hit, he doesn't have to hold
on the ball, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So
you may be asking yourself, okay, wait, wait, how does
Kyen Williams. How's Karen Williams relate to Tua tongue of iyloa?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
How does that work? And I'll tell you very simply.
Kyen Williams signs a three year deal, which, as Dan
Byer told you at the top of the hour, is
really a two year deal at twenty three million dollars guaranteed,
which fits right in line with what running backs had
been making previous to last offseason. And you kind of
(02:50):
go back to the last five years and last year
or the last two years. We've been sitting here at
this point in time, and I feel like I've been
the voice of reasons saying none of that actually matters. Right,
No one's given them a third year guaranteed because it's
a bad investment and the running back market isn't moving
a ton. And what happens. Saquon Barkley has an unbelievable
(03:15):
season with the Philadelphia Eagles, unbelievable, and the Eagles, though
they didn't have to, they go in there and say, hey,
one year in we're going to rework your deal. We're
going to make it two more years guaranteed. In other words,
it was three years guaranteed. But that's not the deal
that he signed. He signed a deal that was on
par with all those other deals. Matter of fact, the
(03:36):
deal he signed with Eagles was only worth one million
dollars more through the life of it than what the
Giants were paying him. And this isn't to say that
it wasn't brilliant to sign with the Eagles. I've said
this before, though he gave away, kicked away all of
the Giants reunion stuff, the chance to be in New York,
can be a New York Giants running back and be
the Tekey bar, the next te Key Barbar, et cetera.
(03:59):
This changes to jectory as a football player like nothing
else you could think of. He goes from the best
player and a bad team to the best player on
the best team in football. But the actual contract that
he signed wasn't some groundbreaking deal. Derrick Henry's contract wasn't.
Josh jacobs contract wasn't some groundbreaking deal. And to all
(04:24):
of those like myselves who would tell you that, hey,
they more than lived up to that deal in year one,
the argument had never been a little bit had been
over what the scale was year one, year two, but
most of it was are you going to guarantee us
that third year? And I brought up the outlier arguments
that become narratives, because that's what we're doing with running backs.
(04:48):
We're gonna use the outlier of Saquon Barkley and say hey,
this is the new model, this is what running backs
are worth. And they're like, yeah, well, Karen Williams side
a deal that's right in line with all those guys
from the previous year. For I'm not telling you to
not watch sports on TV or not have these insane
sports arguments that people had, But the truth is always
(05:10):
closer towards the middle and what it says for what
it says for the running back position. And you know,
the Buffalo Bills buyer, was it was it you who
told me yesterday that the Bills are now the odds
on favorite to win the Super Bowl?
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yes, yeah, so I was listening and we did it
in the press, right.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So Dan shared with us that the Buffalo Bills are
the favorite to reach the Super Bowl. And now they're
currently practicing without their starting running back. Now you could
make the argument, you know, they have the starting running back.
His name is Josh Allen. He's under understander playing quarterback.
But again, all of these arguments are are exactly the
(05:55):
same as the ones we've had over the past three years.
And so instead of getting caught up in Saquon and
what he got and the Eagles ripping up his deal
and giving him a contract far above the market. Kyra
Williams is telling you where the market is. Three years
(06:16):
at thirty three, twenty three guaranteed, and if you're a starting,
high caliber, top ten in your craft short of running back,
that's about what you should be expecting. That's about what
you expect should expect. That's not the rank and file.
Rank and files are the guys that are just fighting
(06:36):
for a roster spot. There's two or three on every roster,
right There's guys that come in you've never heard of before.
They do special teams, you know, on passing only situations.
They're back there really to block on third down. Like
those are the rank and file guys. These are a
notch below stars, a notch below stars. Starting running backs.
(07:03):
Three years, thirty three, that's right there with what Saquon,
Josh Jacobs, all of those guys between nine, eleven, nine
and twelve going back last year. It's a slight increase
over it in year to year, but reality is it's
a two year contract.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yes, Dan seventh amongst running backs in the NFL, and
average annual salary.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
There you go, it's about right, right, and this is
from a coach who's been into Super Bowls, won a
Super Bowl, seen as the best offensive coach in football,
and one who values running the football. But he's not
going to overvalue it to where he tips the scale
and he can't afford other things. And this is a
good contract. So my point is, don't listen to outlier
(07:48):
arguments that people want to make into narratives. The running
back market has not changed a great deal, nor should it.
It's a position that you just can't protect from injury
the way you can as much at wide receiver. Definitely,
not like quarterback or anything else. You just can't. They
have not changed the rules inside the tackles running the football,
(08:11):
So it's not necessarily about value. It's about durability. It's
about availability and the likelihood that you know, three years
after signing a contract, you're still going to be the
player or a better version of the player that you
are when you sign that contracts. That's a hard argument
(08:31):
to make. And again you could say, well, look at
Derick Henry. Again, that's an outlier. Dereck Henry is in
everybody else, and Derek Henry doesn't really catch it out
of the backfield there's other things he doesn't do, but
a man he can run downhill. But I'm not trying
to question Derrick Henry. I'm telling you that that's again
the exception, say Kwon Barkley is the exception. The rule
(08:53):
is we're right about there, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, somewhere
schmushed in the middle, and you're gonna get two with
a little bit in that third year. But I think
there's a lot of people who sat there on their
couch and saw Josh Jacobs perform incredibly well. Aaron Jones
played really really well. You saw Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry,
(09:16):
and you're sitting there going stick that to the man,
give those running back quick contracts. And I told you
throughout the year, that's great. The argument wasn't oversightning those players.
It was over the yearly, but mostly over how many
years guaranteed? And everybody's falling back onto everybody's falling back
on too.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
This is the best of the Don dot Leb Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
It's the Doug gott Lieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.
And the new author of a book, and of course
he's written other books, but it's called football done right.
It's Michael Lombardi. He joins us on the Doug Gottlieb
Show on Fox Sports Radio. And you've basically done everything
at the professional level of football, right from being a
(10:05):
general manager to being kind of the consingly area you
name it, and then of course covering the game periodically
throughout the last fifteen or so years, as well as
getting back into business now moving to the college side.
But it's kind of the professionalization of the college side.
What's it like for you.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
It's been fun, Doug, It's been great. I think you
nailed that. It is a professional sport. I mean, look
what players are getting paid, which they deserve to get
paid because of the revenue that they've generated for the
universities across the board and now to help other sports,
help and help other sports and also help the institution.
(10:43):
But it's been fun, I mean, other than attending an
academic meaning my job is pretty much the same as
it was working at all the NFL teams. It's salary
cap it's team buildings, understanding how to utilize your money
that you have available to you and in the best
way possible.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I think. So what's interesting is obviously your level, you
guys are able to break it apart where Coach Belichick
does football and you do your the you're the GM, right,
So there's there's a separate, a little a slight separation
of church and state. My level, I kind of do everything.
We We hired a hire, we have a GM who's
a former player who's going to help us. But it's
(11:23):
not to the level that that you're doing. So I
guess here's the first question that all guys ask them,
we all ask each other, is are you are you
tearing it or are you going after certain guys and
being like, what what is your what's the general plan
for how you guys do what you do within the
scope of your salary structure.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Well, I mean everything about the job that I have
is the same as the job in professional football. You
have to grade the players accurately to then determine how
much you tell them. You know, the NFL draft is
all about how much money. It's all money the NFL draft.
If you get picked the first pick in the second round,
you make X. If you get picked the last pick
in the seventh round, you make why. And that why
(12:06):
in that X has to be equated to a description
this player will come in and start immediately. He'll make
a huge impact on the team, and he'll be All
conference or whatever. Whatever the description is. That translates into
how much you should pay the player. Where you get
in trouble is when you have a guy you grade
as a backup player and you pay him like a starter.
(12:27):
That's when you get in trouble. So the first thing
you have to do is put together a grading system
that allows you to accurately grade the players.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Do you use analytic companies or do you use your
own grading system in your own film breakdown?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
No, we use our own system. I mean, football is
different than baseball. We're not as analytical as we have
some elements of analytics. But I mean, look, you know
if analytics breaks down a game, do they tell you
who's on the field? Right? I Mean it's easy to say,
you know, get into a level and personnel and throw
the ball. It's the best. But if Reggie White's the
(13:03):
right end and the left end and you're the right
tackle can't block anybody, do you really want to throw
the ball? I mean that's the fundamental question, right. It's
all about how the players intertwine with the plays. Do
I think it's important to have some form of analytics,
of course, but to sit there and think that you
can carry the load with analytics, it's a little bit
(13:25):
naive in the sense that you just do you have
to know who's on the field. Do you have to
judge the players? Right? You want to go after Rod Woodson,
who I wrote about football done Right? Good? Go after them?
Everybody did? They double moved them early in the game
because after that you weren't going to get another play
on them. So it's about how to incorporate plays and players.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
In the new book Football Done Right? Did you when
you started it? Because I mean, look, anybody's written a
book or thought about writing a book knows it takes
a while. When you started, though, your your job and
your job description was completely differ, right. Was there any
thought of college football when you started putting pin of paper?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Oh no, no, not at all. I didn't think I
would get back into the team side of it, you know,
having worked in the NFL, and when you get older.
In the NFL, he required to make too much money
and nobody wants to pay so, you know, I felt
like I had a good job working on the media side,
and I was enjoying that. And I love writing books.
I mean, my first book, wrid O Genus has sold
(14:27):
really well. In this book here gave me a lot
of pleasure to write. In fact, I felt really on
this past weekend. I felt vindicated because one of the
major themes of the book was why Sterling Sharp wasn't
in the NFL. It's the reason I really one of
the reasons why I started to write the book was
the injustice given a Sharp and look what happened. He
(14:48):
got in the NFL. Not because of my book, but
people became aware of the injustice. You know, he said
he didn't play long enough, well even to Terrell Davis,
either to Tony Basselli. But so one of the rules,
you know what is long enough? And I think that's
why I wrote it and I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
What about coach Belichick, you know, he again at least
what we were told was man, he really valued intelligence
right in the players that you guys drafted. You go
back to your days with the Patriots. How has he
adjusted to even smart college troll players hail in comparison
(15:29):
to the level of football intelligence he's used to dealing with.
What's this process been like in terms of trying to
evaluate and trying to coach players of different levels of
football intelligence.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Well, you know, every football team, whether you're in high school,
whether you're in college or pro, you become who you
want to be. And everybody here knows we're looking for smart, tough,
and dependable players. And when you walk in the building,
that's the first thing everybody he could hit with. We
want smart, tough, independable, and if you're not smart, tough
and dependentle, you won't be on our team. So that's
what he wants, and that's the kind of player that
(16:03):
we're trying to build within the framework of the team.
You know, football teams become who they want to be.
If you want a fat team, you'll sign fat players.
If you want a skinny you'll sign skinning players. Right, Well,
we want smart, tough, and dependable, which if we if
they're smart, tough, independent, and they're self aware, we'll make
them better players, will allow them to grow and develop.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
In football. Then right, you talked about Sterling Sharp, who
got in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Okay, so
does that does Terrell Davis Sterling Sharp, Tony Bisselli? Does
that open the door for even a priest. Holmes right,
very short career, but very dominant in that short period time.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, I mean I think he deserves I think part
of what I wanted to do and why. If you
go to the back of the book, you know I
wrote I wrote why I wrote the book. And you know,
if you ever watch Larry David Curb your enthusiasm, he
had an episode called the Middler where whoever sits at
the middle of a table at a dinner party is
responsible to stir up conversation. I think that's a really
good conversation to have. You know, what is the criteria?
(17:04):
I think every position should have a criteria. I put
a criteria in there for coaches so we could stop
the debate is this guy a good player? See, it's
just no different than a grading system in football. If
you don't have a system, everybody just argues back and
forth whether the guy's good enough. When you have a
system that describes what the player with the qualifications that
must be meant to get into the club, there's no
(17:27):
more debate. You know. For example, Marty Schottenhammer has won
two hundred games in his NFL coaching career, two hundred.
There's only nine people that have coached out of the
five hundred plus people that have called themselves head coach
that have achieved that level of success, one out of
five hundred and nine out of five hundred and seventy five.
(17:50):
And he's not in the Hall of Fame. If you're
in that exclusive club, don't you think you belong in
the Hall of Fame. Yeah, there shouldn't be a debate.
He should be automatic. Just admitted. It shouldn't come to
a vote. But he well, he has not won a
super Bowl. Okay, Marv Lee, he didn't win a super Bowl. Well,
he didn't get to a super Bowl. Well, George Allen
went to one super Bowl. You know, the only coach
(18:12):
ten years. He had a seventy percent winning percentage. He
lost at fourteen to seven to the Miami Dolphins in
the undefeated season. But he's in the Hall of Fame.
I mean, so, like, what is if there's no criteria,
all that happens is it becomes an argument.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yep, pretty much right. It's it's like the Constitution. We
picked the ones that we picked, the things we like, don't.
We try to diminish the things we don't. We do
the same with the Bible, and we do the same
thing with with arbitrary sports arguments, where we'll leave things
out because it doesn't support an argument.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Right. And if somebody has as well as one favor
with the media and they the media like them, they'll
push the player to get into the Hall of Fame.
You know, they'll want the guy. I mean that was
the point. You know, certain guys got pushed and they
deserve to go in the Hall of Fame. Maybe they did,
maybe they didn't, but there should be an order, you know,
Mike Homegren's want you know, he belows Mike Shanahan. We
(19:08):
would have what would have the zone outside run play
one of one of the major injustices, Clark Shaughnessy. We
wouldn't have a forward pass if it wasn't for Clark Shaughnessy.
But yet we can't. Clark Shaughnessy's not in the Hall
of Fame.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
How does Aaron Rodgers do in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
I mean, I don't know enough about about how he looks,
and I haven't paid any attention to the NFL to
really say, but I think Arthur Smith's are a really
good coach. I think Mike Comlins a really good coach,
And I think if he follows the program, you know,
the program. One player is not going to win for you.
It's going to be the program. And I think if
he follows the program, that will really help.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Last thing, I know, you got to in the NFL,
I've been told the hit rate for free and C
is like thirty three percent. Right, what do you think
a reasonable hit rate in year one for you would
be at North Carolina? In it? You mean for recruiting, Yeah,
in terms of evaluate guys achieving what you thought they
(20:06):
would achieve.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
When you're well, I mean we have seventy new players
on the team. Does it's hard. It's a completely new team.
I think to me, it's about one day at a time.
We've got to build it. We're building a culture. I mean,
that's the most important thing. When you walk into this building,
you'll feel a culture, you know, and that's what more
is the most important element of what we're doing. Once
you build a culture, then all of a sudden you've
(20:29):
developed multipliers, you know, multiple you know what multipliers are
players of course, multiplayers, and so that's that's what we're doing.
And so that takes time, but it's also worthwhile.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
It is worthwhile, so is picking up this book. It's
called Football Done Right. You can pick up his other
book as well, it's outher by Michael Lombardi. Course works
for North Carolina football. He's kind of to spend some
time this picked up Football Done Right. Mike, thanks so
much for joining us. I know you're busy. Really appreciate
your time.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
By Fox Sports Radio had the best sport talk lineup
in the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports
Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
What about you don got leap show Fox Sports Radio
iHeartRadio app. Welcome, Welcome in Man. We just over talked
on that amusement park ride and Dan Byer had some
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(21:28):
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our very best videos. So this is a this is
(21:52):
a personal thing that I despise and I don't really
know what to do about it. So just let's just
talk about it. There are always going to be people
that insist somehow Shador Sanders was done wrong by the world, right,
and we've I don't need to, We don't need to
relitigate the Shador Sanders and where he was drafted thing.
(22:16):
You know, it's super interesting. I mean, probably the best
thing to happen to us in the NBA draft sadly
happened to uh, Bronnie James, was Bronnie had the heart issue,
because otherwise there would have been some people who do
rankings that will be like, hey, Bronnie James top ten
(22:36):
prospect on I think Jonathan Gavoni's list, and he should
go because Bronnie James had the heart issue. Forget about
the fact that he didn't start when he was at
se They didn't have a good year, he didn't have
particularly good year because he had the heart issue. Was
like he wasn't gonna have a good year anyway. So
you know, second round picks about right, and we all
(22:58):
knew when the Lakers were picking, and that's where about
he would go. And so what there wasn't this So
the celebrity Dad Draftee is definitely a thing, right, definitely
a thing. So I'm not going to relitigate where Shouduur
should have gone. It's just really important to understand there
(23:19):
are thirty two NFL teams and we went through two
days of drafting and he had not been selected. They
had plenty of time, so it wasn't and there was
no collusion. There's just everybody involved was like, she's just
not good enough considering you know, the pressure you're going
(23:41):
to get to play him, and the talent that he
may or may not have, and then the way which
she carries himself. So he's at fourth on the depth
chart with the Browns. And I'll be honest, Dylan Gabriel,
who was drafted around ahead of him, I've never been
I've never watched Dylan Gabriel play at Florida or at
Oklahoma and be like, you know what, that's an NFL quarterback.
(24:07):
But he was drafted ahead of Shador and so he's
gonna get kind of right. A first refusal. Here's Shador
Sanders when he was asked what we should expect from
him in his first NFL preseason game.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Have you watched me at Collins?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
But you know a little bit of that going on.
Speaker 4 (24:23):
I'm still the same guy, you know, I don't nothing
happened to me.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, and look, I think it's a good quarterback, a
definitely good college quarterback. But you know, it's it's gonna
be interesting. And I saw Robert Griffin third, who now
works for us at Fox, talking about how he's been
done wrong by the Browns and it's gonna make people
pay for such little reps in the he's the fourth quarterback.
(24:52):
What did you expect in terms of number of reps?
Volumes of reps? And we're going to hyper focus on
his performance in his first preseason game, and if if
he has good numbers, we're going to say it's really good,
no matter if it was the right reads or how
average the defense or talent that he's going against was.
But there is nothing abnormal about your second quarterback drafted
(25:13):
being fourth in the depth chart when you have two
previous NFL starters and a guy drafted ahead of him,
ahead of him on the on the you know, in
the pecking order. But my private frustration is over people
that cherry picks stats from the Internet and make a
(25:35):
statement about who played well in a practice where you
have zero idea, what they were trying to accomplish, where
they were going against, or what it looked like zero.
What do I think happens? I think Flacco starts. I
think at some point Kenny Picken, Kenny Pickett gets a shot.
I think they have to hold on to Dylan Gabriel.
(25:57):
I think they might carry they might carry four. Remember
they still have Deshaun Watson under contract. He just tores
Achilles ten in twice. So you know, I don't know
if they do they would you drop by Kenny Pickett
who's started in the NFL for a couple of years
over a Dylan Gabriel and a Shdore Sanders knowing that
(26:19):
next year's Brown's quarterback probably isn't on the roster, probably
isn't on the roster. Byra how do you think? How
do you think this turns out? I mean, and by
the way, the I Once Reflex podcast is dance podcast.
It's awesome if you need fantasy information to get your
draft coming up as well, give me your best guess.
(26:40):
We don't know who gets hurt. We don't know how
it works. I do think that that Flacco somewhere early
to mid season gets pulled I think Kenny Pickett gets
a shot. I'm guessing they find a way to carry
three or four. I just don't know if Shore Sanders
is one of those guys.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah, And just to backtrack a little, like we believe
that Kenny at one point was number one and Joe
Flacco is number two. Then Pikett gets injured and now
the depth chart comes out and Flacco is number one
on that. I think they really wanted to see what
Kenny Pickett had for whatever reason, and I think that's
why he was going to get the opportunity up until
(27:18):
this hamstring issue that he's been dealing with. The bottom half,
Doug is the part where it's changed for me, because
I do think in the last forty eight hours there
is a scenario where Shador Sanders doesn't make this team.
And the only reason I say that is because I
feel that if you are Andrew Berry and you're Kevin Stefanski,
(27:40):
the way that you can take your control back, or
at least some of the power back, and it may
fly in the face of what the Haslms wanted. Even
if Jimmy Haslm said it was Andrew Berry's decision, it's
still a fifth round pick and they have been cut before,
and the fifth round picks have not made rosters before.
So if you're the Cleveland Browns and you feel that
you have something this season, then maybe Shudour doesn't make it.
(28:04):
That's entered into my mind over these last couple of
days because I just don't know. I don't know who
else would want Kenny Pickett. I don't understand the signing
of Flacco and Picket. If you're gonna deal one of
them like that doesn't make much sense to me. So
just the fact of Shador not getting reps with the
the Ones for a decent amount of training camp or
(28:26):
against the number one defense, that's that kind of brought
into the equation. All right, Well, maybe the Browns don't
have a future with shaudor Sanders.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
I can tell you one thing. I know Jase two
so badly once I'm on that team as third string quarterback,
because Jason likes storylines, and that's a great storyline.
Speaker 5 (28:46):
Accurate, Jason, are you trying to represent me as a
person that loves great storylines?
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (28:54):
Yeah, no, I love them.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, And Shadur being like the third string quiquarterback is
exactly what we need. Exactly what he because then you're
gonna have a portion of people literally hoping that Joe
Flacco's terrible and whoever replaced him also terrible, and that
Chador comes in riding the white horse and saves the day.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
With the By the way, just a side note with
the Browns on that storyline, and then we can bring
it back. Remember they traded down from two to five yep,
and picked up Jacksonville's first round pick next year. And again,
what could be a great quarterback draft? You right now
don't have your second round pick sign because of a
(29:38):
domestic violence arrest. Has it been the greatest of off
seasons for the Brons in that regard? Like, there's gonna
be a point where you're gonna start looking towards the
future and Dylan Gabriel's future may not even be as
part of the cards and you use the third round
pick on him. So they do the deal with Jacksonville
getting a first round or next year. But you look
(30:01):
back at what they've done just in since this draft,
and it's been I know, the Judkins thing isn't their fault,
but it's better.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
How's it not their fault?
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Well?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
Well, just I mean I don't think that there were
any there was anything behind quinch On Judkins.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
I don't know how they would be at fault and not.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Necessarily at fault. I mean, but listen, I can you
know and we don't know, and I don't know what
the background looks like, but I can tell you that
it's you got to pay a lot of attention to it.
It's it's just about everything is what kind of person
we deal with here, so and it you know, it's
early on. Hopefully it's nothing. Hopefully that it's a it's
(30:45):
an overreaction. I don't know. I don't know enough about it.
I don't want any any woman to ever be abused
by a man ever. But yeah, I mean, and.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
That happened after they drafted him.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Though no I know, but it's still part of you know,
I don't Again, I didn't do the background research. I'm
just saying. And Deshaun Watson, by the way, if you
went to his background when he was coming out of college,
people thought he was a saint. So they can't fool you.
Absolutely can fool you. But you're right, You're right, Dan.
I mean, like your second round pick's got a DV
(31:21):
and your third round pick looks like he's a high
school quarterback. Yeah right, and you're like and yeah, and
now you got Schador Sanders, and what if shed Door
Sanders is decent? Then you're like, well, we want to
we did this whole thing so we could take an
elite quarterback next year. And this happens.
Speaker 5 (31:44):
As good as a storyline. It will be if he's
on the roster. I think the great twenty four hour
news cycle when he if he's ever cut by the Browns, yeah,
I think that would be the end of mel Kiper.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
He will be if he gets cut, he will be
the Coln Kaepernick of this season. Somebody's playing poorly. It's like,
you know, they should call they should call Shador Sanders, right.
I mean like there's Kirk Cousins is available and Shadoor
Sanders is available, and there will be people that will
(32:18):
say the two are the same thing. Well, you know,
Kirk Cousins, he's older, he's got that achilles. I'd rather
have Shador Sanders. I'm telling you right now, he's the
next Kaepernick. By say Kaepernick, I'm not talking about polarizing protesting.
I'm talking about how that became kind of like the
go to for people who don't know anything about football,
and just the last how many years is the Kaepernick think?
(32:41):
Was it thirteen? Was last year he played?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Right?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
But it's been like the last I don't know, six
seven years where people have people go like, you know,
they should call Colin Kaepernick. Now they're going to say,
you know what they should call Schadoor Sanders. I'll tell
you what. I take a look at your door stand.
Even if he couldn't beat out Kenny Pickett, Old, Joe
Flacco and Dylan Gabriel, You Jay Stu searches for content
(33:12):
and conflict, right and the opposite of whatever BS is,
right Danielle all three, I think I did.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
Yep, and I think that there's but I do think
that mel Kuiper would cease to exist. And I'm not
talking about our you know, as a NFL draft analyst.
I think he would have a heart attack. He has
so much in the Shaduur Sanders easter basket that he
if he was cut by an NFL team, that means
(33:40):
that he wasn't a top five overall pick in the draft,
which mel Kuiper screamed. He was through the draft, through
the draft from the very beginning of his draft analysis.
Through the third day of the draft, mel Kuiper was
telling us that Shadueur Sanders is a top five pick.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah, I don't see it, and he would have to
be Tom Brady, which you know, I thought. I read
an article yesterday which was interesting, which is I didn't
know how much Tom Brady was involved with the Raiders,
but he was involved obviously with the Raiders. Where now
he's on the field at practice at training camp with
a Raider's shirt on, and he had worked with Shador
(34:25):
and yet the Raiders took drafted other quarterbacks. You know,
it had plenty of opportunities to draft him, which sounds like, yeah,
he worked with stories like yeah, no thanks, no thanks.
Even that answer, while there's nothing wrong with the answer,
(34:46):
you saw me in college, right, Well that's kind of
a loaded thing, right, Yeah, we saw you in college.
I mean, you guys were thirteen and twelve in college,
high completion percentage, you had Travis Hunter, but you know
you held on the ball a little bit too much.
You saw me in college, right, I'm the same guy. Well,
this is a little bit higher level of competition. Again,
(35:08):
nothing wrong with the answer, it's not like you can
sit there and go like this is the wrong answer
for it, but it's not the right answer
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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