September 23, 2025 • 48 mins
On a Tuesday edition of The Best of the Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug weighs in on the news that Oklahoma State fired long-time head coach Mike Gundy.
In this installment of Tuesday Morning Quarterback, Doug and the crew cover what wasn't covered on Monday in the NFL.
Doug welcomes prolific podcaster John Middlekauff onto the show to talk about Mike Gundy, the Ravens and all of the other headlines around the NFL.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
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(00:24):
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with the code fallow twenty five Bring the boom X Boom. Well,
what to talk about? What to talk about? Is it
(00:47):
divisive or divisive? Tomato tomato, potato potato. We'll get to that.
Oh yeah, by the way, Ravens lose again a game
in which the offense was really good, then big fumble
in the fourth quarter and the offense goes. We'll get
(01:07):
to what that means for Lamar and for the Ravens,
or maybe we should talk more about the Lions, who,
after a first week dud, have been outstanding against the
Bears and the Ravens in back to back weeks. However
you want to look at it. Plus major League Baseball
coming to an end here as we're getting close to
the wild card next week, maybe we'll pick Jay Stew's
(01:29):
brain on what he thinks of the Dodgers, the Brewers,
the Cubs, the Padres, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
But I think this one's at my wheelhouse, right Like
you guys are all like this one. We kind of
know what I got my buddies, Like, what are you
going to talk about today? Mike Gundy, for twenty one
years was the head coach at Oklahoma State. He's relieved
of his duties today. The winningest coach in the history
(01:51):
of Oklahoma State football. I'll I'll just give it to
you straight. I did not think he would be fired.
And the logic behind it is, as you heard from
Dan Byer, they owe him fifteen million on a buyout.
They just hired an entirely new staff. The two coordinators,
one of which Doug Meachum's now the interim head coach
(02:13):
has a three year, one one million dollar per year deal,
so they're still on the hook for the rest of
this season and then two more seasons. I think the
total is like fourteen to fifteen million, and then you're
gonna have to have a new team. Right, All these
players now have thirty days in which they could leave,
and you're like, well, school's already started. The schools on
the quarter system have not have not started yet, so
(02:36):
I don't think any of these guys are leaving now,
but they could, but they're gonna all be gone by
the end of the year, and you have a whole
new staff and a whole new team. And if this
team costs you, I was told thirteen million dollars, let's
just be conservative, fifteen fourteen, thirteen for just this head coach,
this staff, and this roster. Right, you're looking at forty
two ish million dollars, okay, and then you have to
(02:59):
go get a new team. This one was thirteen, stands
a reason fifteen to twenty next year if you actually
want to be competitive, and this coaching staff again, just
even in for a one year, you're like your first year,
you're gonna have to pay at least five for a
head coach and then probably somewhere in the neighborhood of
ten for assistant coaches. Right, so you're at fifteen plus twenty.
(03:23):
That's thirty five plus whatever forty two. That's a lot
of money. And despite the fact that you're told by
people who don't know anything about anything that there's ungodly
some of money out there, there's not that much money
in oklanm State. Now. I have been told there are
some loopholes and some things like vet med sitting on
like thirty three hundred million that they think they can
(03:45):
use for this. Whatever. The point is, it's a lot
of money. It's a lot of money. Let me tell
you why. The timing of it and what they have
done is absolutely positively wrong, and it's wrong for a
myriad of reasons. The number one reason is, hey, I
thought we were different. You know, my brother, he's been
(04:08):
in coaching for a long time and he went to UCLA,
graduated from UCLA. In the middle he actually played basketball Drake,
which has become kind of a powerhouse in the Missouri
Valley in Des Moines, Iowa. And he told me a
long time ago an expression that I don't believe because
I have what I believe is a really good relationship
(04:28):
with my alma mater, which is Hey, the second you
care too much about your own matter, just remember they
don't care about you. So Mike Gundy shouldn't have kept
his job because he's in Oklahoma state of lum. But
what exactly was accomplished today? Just think about this for
(04:50):
a second. Okay, and again, this is a topic I
know a lot about and some of you do because
we're on in Oklahoma. You know, people have listened to
the show forever. Again, last year, I thought he made
those comments about his running back who got a DUI?
Nothing I haven't done a thousand times. You're like, what
he got away with saying things that no one else
(05:10):
could won because he was glib and that's just who
he was, and he worked out but two because they won.
He did it, did it for a long time. But
it's wrong because let's just take any coach, but especially
one who isn't alum and has been successful for nineteen
and a half years. Right, last year this time Oklahoma
(05:32):
State was ranked fourteenth in the country. Last year this
time Oklahoma State was eight. So that is a precipitous decline.
So now either the old man stopped working. He's not
really that old, but he stopped working, or the game
passed him by, or maybe I don't know, maybe this
is just a whole new world again. I was against
(05:56):
UCLA firing Deshaun Foster, but Deshaun got a job that
I don't think anybody thought he had a chance for
also in lum But three games into his second year,
what are we doing. What's the purpose of being a
coach if you can't have problems and try and fix
those problems. What's the purpose having a contract if you
can't let somebody at least go through the second year
(06:16):
of it. Virginia Tech it was his fourth year, was
a weird tie. They never got to go in. They're
chasing the glory of a program in the past when
they were in a different league, in a different time,
in a different era, and they're trying to get it back.
I understand it's hard a Virginia Tech, but none of
neither of those two were the winningest coaches at a
(06:38):
place or had just two years ago won ten games
at a place where they started by the way two
years ago, losing to South Alabama at home, which is
as bad or as worse loss than to Tulsa this
past Friday. But here's the point. At the end of
last season, there was a coup de'tas there were people
(06:58):
in the athletic department more people that were donors, and
I believe the governor, Governor Stitt in Oklahoma, who wants
to be the president of Oklahoma State, tried to have
a coupd ata. They wanted to fire Mike Gundhy, and
Mike Gundhy had a contract which was unfireable. So even
as an alumna, a friend of Gandy and a fan
of like, a twenty five million dollar buyout on a
(07:20):
rollover contract is ridiculous, So they tried to come up
with some kakamami plan to fire him for cause if
he wasn't willing to change the terms of his contract
and sign a new contract. He acquiesced sign a new
contract that now had a fifteen million dollar buyout, and
he acquiesced and wiped out his staff people that he
worked with for years, and hired a whole new staff.
(07:43):
Were three games in to a new staff, three games
in to a season. Two and a half of those
games they played without their starting quarterback and broke his
foot on the third series of the season. The starting
quarterback who came over with the offensive coordinator. They copied
the Oklahoma model, And you're gonna fire you're winning his coach? Ever,
(08:10):
why because he might win games. Here's a news flash.
I don't know if anybody knows this. Even if Mike
Gundy won every game the rest of the season, if
you want to fire him, do you know how much
it cost you? Fifteen million dollars? If he loses every
game the rest of the season, do you know much
it cost you? Fifteen million dollars? But you're supposed to
(08:31):
do it the right way. Was it embarrassing to lose
to Tulsa? Yes? Yes, yes. Last time they lost Tulsa
was nineteen ninety eight. I know. I was there. I
was a student. We drove down to Tulsa, watched football
guys play. It was in the rain. It was awful,
and Tulsa was sort of decent then, I think, and
(08:51):
Oaklhom State was not. But it felt terrible. Bad scheduling
all around. Don't play the Oregon game. They're on a
completely different trajectory than you, And don't play Tulsa because
there's no win in playing Tulsa. The same reason Wisconsin
won't play US is because they beat us. You're supposed
to beat us. If you lose, it's the end of
the world. I get it. But three games in to
(09:16):
a twenty one year career, when you've done nothing but
win up until the last calendar year, you fire a
guy who just hired a new staff, has sixty three
new players. All that is is you have people who
think that the answer is always fire everybody, start over,
(09:39):
do it as quickly as possible. What change for the
program today? How do they put themselves on some different trajectory?
What change for this weekend? Is Baylor kid? Nothing. All
you've done is say whatever hope there was of having
any sort of positive season, you've completely thrown out the door. Yeah,
(10:00):
by the way, like you're my Gundy. He wasn't probably
gonna go quietly. But you very easily could have gone
in at mid season and be like, listen, we got
the money, we're gonna buy you out. We want to
do this the right way. Let's make this the going
away tour. But instead you just do it to get splash.
You do it in the middle of the week. It's Tuesday.
(10:20):
They play Saturday at home at home, And I know
who the people are who are making these decisions. And
again a lot of them have been, Hey, I got
this money, I want this coach, I want that coach
they did in basketball a couple of years ago. So
they're putting up their good, harder money because they're all
(10:41):
the monitor and they want to buy a winner. But
nothing you have done today makes you closer to being
a winner, none, cause you're gonna have to start from
scratch next year, regardless, completely over, new staff, new program,
new everything. And again that's gonna take time. You think,
I don't know that, I'm living it. So this is
(11:05):
not a coach to a coach defending a coach. I
said yesterday, I thought he actually should have gotten until
next year. What's the point of reworking his deal? What's
the point of saving yourself ten million dollars for three
games when you lose your starting quarterback three series in right,
And you can say, well, when you know, you know,
(11:25):
but you don't know, you have no idea what they have.
And yeah, they missed on some guys in the portal.
They weren't great. It's really really hard to have fifteen
or twenty practices and then go play, you know, a
football game. Kind of hard. So again, this is not
me saying you can't fire a coach. That's not me
saying you can't fire an alone. You can. This is
(11:45):
not me saying you can't fire the winningest coach in
the history of Oklahoma State football. You absolutely positively have
the right to do so. But why now because idiots
on TV and on the internet think that you can
get John Gruden, which you can't, or think that this
doesn't put you in pole position to go get a coach.
Doesn't change anything. You still have to go and evaluate
(12:10):
who you think and figure out what their plan is,
figure out how much money you have, what name is
going to generate you the most money for people who
donate money, so one you can continue to buy out process,
but also to raise money for new players. All of
these things they don't change. But Oklahoma State was supposed
(12:32):
to be different because he's one of us. It doesn't
buy you a lifetime appointment. It doesn't mean that you're
impervious to anything. It doesn't mean that you have to
stay there for years to come and fulfill the entirety
of your contract doesn't mean that. But it's supposed to
mean something. Twenty one years of excellence is supposed to
(12:53):
mean something. It doesn't. And that's where we are in
college sports, not everywhere. But it sucks that it's my
alma mater that was supposed to be a different place,
that was supposed to be a place where, hey, cowboys
hire cowboys and we take care of cowboys. And look
(13:14):
they had they hired, you know, the longtime legendary wrestling coach,
John Smith retired a year and a half ago. They
hired David Taylor wrestling coach. He's a Penn State guy.
He's been unbelievable. And I'm sure that there's a lot
of people around still Water they're like, hey, we don't
have to hire Oakham State guys. David Taylor's not He's awesome.
(13:35):
It's a great hire. He's been spectacular. But did you
do that three matches into the season? Three games into
the season. And this just reiterates something that I've often believed.
I tell people all the time, you don't go shop hungry, right,
(13:57):
you don't go shop hungry. Why don't you go shop
hungry because you'll go buy stuff that you didn't actually
wint like that sounds good. That sounds good. That sounds good.
That sounds good. You come home and your wife, your
girlfen's like what you get. I was like, well, you know,
I got orchata because that sounds good. And then I
got steak because that sounds good. And then I got chicken,
and then I got sushi, and then I got They're like, whoa,
(14:19):
all this is fresh, It's all gonna go bad. Why
do I let you go shopping when you're hungry? But
you don't make decisions when you're embarrassed. Catch your breath,
find your balance, make the smart decision. This is not
one of them, because however bitter my Gundy may have been,
when ultimately you let him go. Now, okay, now, I
(14:45):
mean you lost a huge chunk of your university in
your football family, because you're very likely to hire somebody
outside of the football family is going to do things new,
and now all those people that used to come around
for all the games because they played for one coach
for twenty years. And now it's not just that he's gone,
it's that he's really bitter about it, and you embarrassed
him by firing him three games in with a whole
(15:07):
new team and a whole new coaching staff. What's the
hurt and waiting? He might win more games? Okay, you
can still fire him. You're still allowed to.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
This is the best of the Done Dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
But you Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. iHeartRadio. App Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,
in hope, you're having a great day. The Doug Gottleep
Show broadcast from northeast Wisconsin and southern California where those guys,
thankfully I know where they live. They live in the
other direction. But if you've got to go on the
four or five south from Sherman Oaks with them fixing
(15:50):
like three lanes a night, good luck, oh, good luck
to you, Good luck to you. Baseball cranking up cause
we're getting ready for October Octoba football. I mean, how
many coaches now it was this three major college head
coaches plus Stanford's open that have already been fired. We're
(16:10):
like not even to October yet. And yeah, the Cowboys
are terrible. Who are we going to make fun of
in the playoffs this year when they lose early? Not
the Cowboys A lot to get to a lot to digest.
But we're just here doing the do and getting you
ready for another week of ball. As we react to
(16:31):
last night's when of the Lions taking down the Ravens
in Baltimore, how to do Baltimore fans, Baltimore, Baltimore, Baltimore.
And there's lots of things that we got to yesterday.
Major points we have on. We had Tom Telesco on,
we had doom miin ocaff on. Today. We talk a
lot of ball, but there are always things that get missed.
(16:53):
I've always thought, hey, could we do our true duties
and show people, hey, we pay attention to more than
just the Cowboys suck or Kayleb Booms was good? Or
the Lions Ravens last night standalone games, or even the
Chargers that Jay Stu and I are celebrating first three
and oh starts since two thousand and two. We do
that with Tuesday Morning Quarterback.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, Tuesday, this is Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon.
Mondays can be overwhelming. Tuesdays are getting to whatever we
didn't get.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
To on Monday.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
This is Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon yeah, you know. Look,
Bryce Young wasn't great on Sunday, but if you take
what he did in the second half of their second
game that they lost when he was cooking, and then
you factor in Michael pennocks By though was awful. Two
(17:52):
terrible picks. We haven't discussed it. We haven't gone to
detail of it. I don't know where we are on
Bryce Young. He's a little bit better than the got
to get him out. Remember last year he got polled
as being a starter at times, but we all kind
of anointed Mike Pennix as like, hey, he's a dude.
Now definitely didn't play like it this past weekend. He's
(18:14):
had They're one and two in their own right. He's
had a kind of mere curiol second year and now
first year is a full time starter. Like again, just
something to keep your eye on, as when Kirk Cousins
stunk and they put him in. Everybody fell in love
with Pennix because of his play at Indiana and at
Washington and he just got a rifle arm And how
(18:35):
good is he really? I honestly think the jury is
still out.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
You've got cat scratch fever. This is second straight week
you had picked Panthers on there Tuesday morning quarterback in
the afternoon. Yeah, the comeback against the Cardinals that just
fell short in that crazy game in week two, and
they seem to carry that momentum into week three.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I know whose ears are perked up right now, Big Mike,
Big Mike in the backs of Carolina Panther fans. He's
loving this.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Yeah, you could all you can also say that Doug
repeating his Tuesday morning quarterback is getting Bryce fulled.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
The Panthers have the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I didn't get that one. Okay.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
The Panthers have the Patriots coming up in Week four,
so that will be an interesting matchup and as a
perfect transition to the game and the teams that I
want to talk about, and that's the Steelers and the
New England Patriots. Oh please, do I think we look
on the surface and say, great win by Pittsburgh. Pitts,
that's why you bring in Aaron Rodgers. Great job, That's
(19:39):
why you do it. New England turned the ball over
five times in that contest, including a goal line fumble
by Romandre Stevenson where they're about to get points and
then they don't get points. But five turnovers in that
game that was dominated by the Patriots, and I think
New England probably will have some growing pains and they're
(20:01):
experiencing them right now with that loss to Pittsburgh. They
were able to hold off the feisty Dolphins in Week
two and lost a weird game to the Raiders in
Week one. But Pittsburgh's two and one, and I don't
even know how good they are. The Seattle game has
the muff kickoff return right, Caleb Johnson, Iowa product, messes
(20:27):
that out and ultimately that kind of turned out to
be the game, even though the Seahawks won by two scores.
But Aaron Rodgers was average at best against New England
in Week three. So you have a Patriots team at
one and two that I think we're down on that
maybe they aren't as bad. And Drake may threw for
two hundred and sixty eight yards. Now he's got some
(20:48):
fumbling issues and he also threw an interception. Yeah right,
But yeah, I think that New England's a little bit
better than what their records shown. And I don't think.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Some sums up with that Pittsburgh team. They're just not
that good, just not that good.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
It feels like a great time to bring up this too.
Every single year Dan puts a prediction uh list in
the studio for everybody to make predictions, and Sam's out
on a limb of everything in the NFL that he
thinks is out on a limb, like really going out
there on a LEMMI predicted that the Patriots would be
nine and eight.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Little did I know that there? Dan, didn't you say
that their Vegas win total prediction was like eight and
a half. Okay, but they're one and two. I think
if they finished about five hundred.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Samon, let me, let me help you, Sam, like seventy
of the teams in the NFL end up nine and
eight or eight nine. Well, so it's actually the most
reasonable prediction ever, that's what you're getting at.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
It's very on a whim, very close. I didn't think
that they thought he'd be so they'd be decent, Like
I thought that Vrabel would go like, you know, four
and thirteen. Okay, But I should have done this so
my MVP pick with c J. Stroud, I should have
said c J. Stroud's MVP is my out of the
LIMP pick. That would have been a much better pick.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
What happened to c J.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Stroud. I don't know, it's like it's a junior not
I don't know. I'm trying to think of some kind
of is.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
He like dating? Is he dating really now? And his
mom's got to shut that down again like she did previously.
He's the one, He's the one who is it? Himmers it? No,
it's Jane dating and Daniels, Yeah, whose mom like comes
around with him? You know, she's like stenting him from
from the center block. Woman. She's yes, she's center block
in this she is.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
So here's the Texans at all and three, and in
game time, I said, Houston's bad this year. They're bad
relatively to where they were last year.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, they've played at ten and where they were we
expected them to be after two years ago.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
But think of what they've done in the last three weeks.
They lost a tight game to the Rams fourteen to nine,
but they couldn't score a touchdown, So you're like, what's
up with that? Buccaneers score at the end of the game,
come back and win it in week two on Monday
Night football, so you're oh to two. Then you have
Nico Collins fumbling when you're tied up at ten, driving
(23:10):
into score and he loses a fumble, your best offensive player,
best weapon on the team for CJ. Stroud. Then Jacksonville
goes down and scores a touchdown and that's a wrap.
So like, the Texans deserve to say that they're bad
at owen three, but when you look at like how
they did it, they just seem to kind of be
(23:31):
getting in their own way. The offense is not producing points,
but man, it's a tough way to go oh and three,
and I think they only have themselves to blame.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
What'd you say earlier, Dan, you said you asked a question.
I believe it was this.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
What is that that?
Speaker 5 (23:44):
There?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
You go in there?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
How did the Niners get like the softest schedule ever
to where we have no idea how good they are? Right? Seattle,
new quarterback, new coach. Again, I don't know how good
Seattle is. Part of it was the Saints are so bad.
The Saints are so bad, like Donald like, hey, just
don't screw it up, and you're fine here, we're gonna
we're gonna win by a million. But then they played
(24:09):
the Saints. Then they play the Cardinals at home again.
The Cardinals are okay. Now they lost Bosa, Right like
half of their stars they've lost, and they get the
Jags at home next before and then it gets real,
right Rams Buccaneers on the road. But the Niners have
this soft schedule to where like they're three and oh,
I have zero feel for how good they actually are.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
It helps to play the NFC South in the AFC South, this.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Is the NFC West is going to be this year's
AFC West from last year, right where you match up
against the two weakest divisions, and NFC North from last
year the same thing as well. That's why both of
those divisions got.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Three teams in the playoffs. Two and one is in
the last place right now in the NFC West.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
The Niners are their most rickety three and oh team
in the NFL. I think we can agree very.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Rickety rickety meaning they got hurt.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Well, just I mean that they're they're three and oh,
but they've scraped by rickety means I mean like an
old boat, it's squeaky and it's got things falling apart
the injuries.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, but that's not what you just said. You said
that they squeaked by.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
They're rickety rickety is rickety is.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yes, when they're all old and you think they're they're
falling apart. Rickety is when you're like you're on a
wooden roller coaster. Wooden roller coaster, like.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
The bolts are loose, rickety, like a rickety old boat.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
That's roller coaster? Was enough. I thought everybody got the
wooden roller coaster analog roll.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Wooden roller coasters are cool. There's one in Des Moines.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
No, they're not Ventureland there they are not.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Is this gonna last?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
They're they're they're they're not cool. The new ones are amazing, amazing,
Go to six Flags, Go about Batman. I mean, it's
like all comes back to Iowa. That all it comes
back to Iowa. Do you have any think you have
anything to add to this this segment? I mean Dan
came up with it. Jason, go ahead, I thought you
(26:07):
think a little nap.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Doug is sammed up the entire segment by sorry three
topics already.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
There's so much, there's so much talking about we're good.
It's okay to sam it up. It's all good.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
When we came up with the concept for this for
a Tuesday morning quarterback, it's not just the teams that
we didn't get to yesterday. It also could be an
angle on a story we did cover, but just didn't
cover this angle. I don't know if you guys noticed
the end of the Eagles Rams game, but something truly
badass happened. You guys are familiar with the word stoic, Yes,
(26:41):
very composed. It's it's something that is undervalued, especially in
our business behind the scenes. I want you composed. I
want you to be a I want you to be
someone who is stoic, who when the bullets are flying,
you're not running for the doors. I want I love that,
and Jalen Hurts is all of that. So the Rams
(27:05):
are kicking a field goal to win the game. The
Eagles block the kick famously, and the dumb special teamer
picks up and starts running to the end zone. The
entire Eagles sideline is going crazy. Jalen Hurts has his
arms crossed in front of him with a stoic look
on his face, not reacting at all. Then he just
(27:26):
walks to the middle of the field to shake the
quarterback's hand. It reminds me of something we talked about recently.
Remember when Tom Brady went on the podcast and he
talked about how he wants his quarterbacks to react after
touchdowns go ahead.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
That's what I look for all the time when a
quarterbacks throws the touchdown pass. I actually watched to see
who he goes and celebrates with, because what did I do?
I looked for my offensive lineman every time I went
down and celebrated in the end zone with my teammates,
every time, I wanted everyone to feel like they were
part of the success. Told the lineman, we're all running
(28:01):
to the end zone and we're celebrating as a team,
because I think that's way more intimidating than a quarterback
doing his six shooter guns and pointing up in the
crowd and doing all that other bitch. That's very self promotional,
but it's not about winning, and I think winning in
football is about a team always a team attitude.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
First, I thought that Tom Brady in this moment forgot
the third and coolest thing, which is a quarterback throws
a touchdown and he just runs off the field. That's
a badass move. And Jay, when Hurt's doing what he
did on Sunday was a badass move. We just got
away with a game onto the next game. No need
to over celebrate like a bunch of five year olds.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, his reaction was so minimal it was almost alarming
how little he reacted.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
He was just like the Jay Wright winning the National
champions Just boom.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
Larry Bird and Brenchan Miller hit that shot back in
the late nineties. Remember Larry Bird just sat there and
stared at him.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Larry, Larry legend.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
It's working out for Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Dan, you got more, Daniel?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
I think it's the Jalen Hurts won a Super Bowl
in February, so he understands that that's the big win.
That's where you celebrate in smile. This was a this
was a business transaction. They've completed, the deal finalized.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
That he's the Billy d of the NFL. He's just
kind of cool. It's kind of cool, kind of yeah,
Oh well, Billy d D any more? Dan, you want
to you want to get any more?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I don't know if you guys are alarmed at seeing this,
this amount of backup quarterbacks at this point in the NFL. Already.
Let me rattle off some names. Toad Taylor, mac Jones,
Jake Browning, Marcus Mariota, Carson Wentz. They all stepped in
for injured starters. A couple of big money, big money
quarterbacks like Brock Purty and Joe Burrow. I'm a little
(29:52):
alarmed because didn't we set a record like last year
or two years ago for the number of quarterback Two
years ago was like sixty, it was like fifty five.
I was sixty seven. It was ridiculous, and we've already
I just feel like we're you know, as they say,
your best ability is your availability. And I'm a little worried.
Why are all these injuries happening? You know, it's all
you can explain it on a case by case basis,
(30:13):
But we're seeing more backups than I think we'd like to,
and I'm I'm sure it brings down the quality of
the game. So I'm just a little alarmed by how
many injuries have taken place at the quarterback position. And
I hope it's not a trend that continues for us
this season.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I'll say this, like I know, Jay stew you are
pretty set in on your on your thought that this
is was it Zuopa right? Last year, the NFL was
so poorly played that it was living on its previous albums,
not on the current album. Like you two at the
Zeropa tier Tour. I think the quality plays and some
level been really good.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Very entertaining.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Lastnight was a good, good level football. It was good.
And the tackling from the Lions. Also the pursuit tackling,
you know, that's one of those things that the guys
that Lamar does go by, they come back and get
they come back and grab his legs while he's about
to make a move the other way. But I think
that the level of play and a lot of these
standalone games, maybe more than the Sunday games, has been good.
(31:07):
And then obviously the finish is Saturday. We said this yesterday,
but it was that early window when you went back
to back to back with crazy finishes, right. It was
with the Browns party oh yeah, Brownspackers, and you had
the Rams Eagles, and then you had the comeback with
the Buccaneers. Buccaneers late drive. All in the early window
was pretty awesome. Good weekend. That's Tuesday morning quarterback. So
(31:33):
so we'll we'll, we'll, well, we'll take you behind the scenes.
So that means we have not developed an outro for
the for We only have an intro for it.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Sam, I'm just gonna I'm gonna have Bob do another outro,
and it's gonna be called That's Doug's take on Bryce
Young becoming Bryce Old.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Fox Sports Radio had the best sports talk lineup in
the nation yet. Catch all of our shows at Fox
Sports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
It's Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Hey, make sure
you check out our new YouTube channel. Go to YouTube
dot com slash at Doug Gottlieb Show. If you're already
within YouTube, just search Doug Gottleb Show. Hit that subscribe
button right there there you go, and uh, let me
know how incredible my takes are and my basement is
(32:23):
and Dan Byer always has good hair. All these things
these are appropriate comments. Go check out a brand new
YouTube channel again, subscribe to it, Doug Gottlieb Show, Doug
Gottlieb Show. By what do you think? You're always a
neutral bystander. You're also a huge college football fan. You know,
(32:47):
I process emotions and I'm not gonna say Mike gund
and I are besties. He usually comes on once a
year when I'm personally super nice to me, but we're
not like constantly changing text messages, Christmas cards, whatever. I
just I've never understood this. I got to fire a
guy right now because I'm mad because we lost a
(33:08):
game that I didn't think we should lose or not
as good as we're supposed to be. Instead of going like, okay,
like what's the right thing to do by all people,
this is not It's that's my take.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
I agree, and I think that even from whether it
be from you know, five feet away or five hundred
miles away, it is a bad move because I think
that the outside perspective of Oklahoma State is twofold. So
you see Gundhy being fired there, four year starter at quarterback.
You mentioned all time winning as coach, and it's not
even close. I mean, in being there twenty years, one
(33:39):
hundred and seventy wins, second place is sixty two. So
if there's anybody that's Oklahoma State, it's Mike Gundy. And
if you're a coach and you go there and you say, well,
if I don't get things going, what are they going
to do to me? So that turns I think could
turn candidates off at one point. The other point is
I think from a national perspective of his for the
(34:01):
coaches that we know and that stand out at Oklahoma
State outside of Mike Gundy. There's two of them, Jimmy
Johnson and Less Miles. And those coaches used Oklahoma State
as a stepping stone springboard. Yeah, yeah, it was not Mike.
That was not Mike Gundy's deal. This was his destination.
This was his destiny. If you will so to move
(34:24):
off of Gundhy in this fashion. The next coach you're
going to get is probably going to use you as
a springboard. As you say, I say say stepping stone.
And that's what I think is lost on it from
the outside looking in. It's to be careful what you
wish for. Thing with Oklahoma State.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah yeah, I listen, and it's a lesson. I also
thinks there's an expression in coaching. I don't know if
you has ever heard this. Every year you coach somewhere,
you make an enemy, right, and you coach somewhere long enough,
twenty one years, you make twenty one enemies. Eventually they'll
get you. Now, look, if he's winning game, you go
back to last year, this time the beat Arkansas, they're undefeated,
(35:03):
the rank fourteenth from the country. There were those enemies
were silent, were silent, But you start losing and they
get loud, they get really loud. Again, I continue to
reiterate as my Gundy that Oklahoma state head coach has
lost his job today. He was fired was It ain't
about hiring firing a head coach. It's about doing things
the right way. And then you compounded by the fact
(35:25):
that he's an alum. He was a great quarterback in
one of the few great eras in Oklahoma state history,
and he had been successful for nineteen consecutive years. After
his first year, by the way, when he took over
the job from Less Miles, he ran like nine guys
off because he wanted quality character guys right, So he
(35:47):
kind of sacrificed his first year to build it what
he thought was the right way. And again, it's not
about firing a coach, it's about why are we firing
them three games in the season. Let's ask John middlecoffee.
He joins us now on the Dug The Show on
Fox Sports. Right, do you want to get to NFL
football Ravens defense? What's going on? Why they keep coming
up short in the fourth quarter and second But first,
(36:07):
just your reaction. Mike Gundy out of a job again
from fifteen hundred miles away. How's that feel?
Speaker 7 (36:13):
Yeah, I'd say you could kind of see the writing
on the wall. Obviously last year going three and nine.
You know, I always struggle, like you said, three games in,
just get the divorce last offseason, right, why even do this?
Speaker 8 (36:24):
And I know it's difficult.
Speaker 7 (36:25):
Because, like you said, alumni, you know, I think sometimes
I think you're seeing it. It's a little bit different
because they just made the playoffs last year, But it's
hard to be in a place this long in the
Internet era, with the negativity that surrounds programs, and I
think you're seeing it with Dabo, and I wonder, you know,
there was a loyalty and I think clearly there's a
(36:47):
loyalty with Dabo and Clemson. But like if I could
recommend itaging to Dabo, I'd be like, hey, you got
this negativity, got people already kind of coming for you.
If you get the opportunity to take the forward a job,
like sometimes in your profession, just needs to reset. And
a couple of years ago, you know Dundee and it
was a tough decision turned down Tennessee, right who And
(37:08):
you know this.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Way back, I guarantee that's what he's seeing today should
have taken.
Speaker 7 (37:12):
Tennessee well like in this era with t Moon gone. Yeah, right,
can you imagine Oklahoma State in twenty thirteen in this era, right,
they would have been much They would have been like
Texas Tech. But nowadays it doesn't feel like they regress.
Speaker 8 (37:28):
In terms of that.
Speaker 7 (37:29):
So it's like, is it my first thought that yeah,
is it a good job?
Speaker 8 (37:35):
Because my first thought.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Was no, I honestly think you just hit a home run. John,
I had my brother told me that the same thing.
He's like, you know, the guy at Kansas State was
a great coach in FBS, and he did a great
job his first couple of years. You know, Dabo Sweeney
was an unbelievable coach at Clemson and Mike Gundy, now, right,
is an unbelievable job. What happened to what happened? How
(37:59):
to Texas Tech suddenly become the best team in the
Big twelve because they got a billionaire funding it. It's
really not that hard. It's not that hard look at
and it takes you, and it takes you a couple
of years to kind of figure it out the portal
and all that other stuff. And this is their first
year going on in the portal. Right, so it's you
have more money than other people, you're gonna put a
(38:20):
better team out there, and every perfect.
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Last week text the Tech against Utah these you know
they got first rounders of offensive line. Texas Deck even
their best team offense couldn't stop the soal. Well because
they could never ever get a recruit to come there.
They didn't even waste time talking to them because they
nowadays like, you want NFL recruits, Well this is what
we're offering. Boom will offer you.
Speaker 8 (38:44):
More you come here.
Speaker 7 (38:45):
And Texas Tech got good and obviously I think Joey.
Speaker 8 (38:48):
MacGuire is pretty good too.
Speaker 7 (38:50):
Yeah, it would not be good if Brushon wasn't good,
if you gave Oklahoma States. So it's this is this
is the money game. It's kind of become. You know,
college basketball was like because the shoe contract stuff pre nil,
but now football is basically the same thing that if
you don't have the elite money, you got no shots.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Correct, correct, You gotta get really really lucky, and then
you gotta figure out how you gotta stay healthy.
Speaker 7 (39:16):
Right do you think he retired Mike, Yeah, well I don't.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Know, might do TV. He's got a lot of money,
kids are out of the house, got a gigantic house
to sell, and on how that sells. It's been on
the market for over a year. I don't know. Is
the part of me the things he goes does again? Maybe,
but he has a lot of money and he's got
I think he's actually got a cement business. I don't know.
He's different, dude, I got a question for you then.
(39:42):
I mean, I hear he's got to be on TV.
How good would you be on TV?
Speaker 8 (39:45):
Oh? Well, he's hiring yesterday or Fox? I mean, he'll
be fine.
Speaker 7 (39:49):
Why would his house be for sale?
Speaker 8 (39:51):
Is this something he sees coming? Then?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
No? Uh no, his kids raw out of the house.
It's a huge house with like a menagerie of and
animals and stuff. I just think it was a lot
to maintain, to be honest with.
Speaker 7 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, they all have these gigantic houses when they have
their kids and they have everybody over whatever, and then
I think their wives are like, dude, this is stupid, Like,
don't I don't want this house?
Speaker 8 (40:13):
Oh wait, our landscaping bill is eight thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
What do we do? Yeah? What are we? What are
we actually doing? John Mindlkoff's our guest here on the
Doug Gottlip Show. Enough College. Okay, so there's a bunch
of things last night with the Lions beating the Ravens.
The first thing is, was Derrick Henry fumble prone?
Speaker 7 (40:29):
Before I thought that yesterday he had three total fumbles
in all of twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four,
it was like almost six hundred and fifty carries and
he has three this year and whatever fifty carries.
Speaker 8 (40:42):
So the answer is no.
Speaker 7 (40:44):
And clearly, you know it's one of those things. You know,
you could say one individual fumble even if it's you know,
bad ball security is a freak play.
Speaker 8 (40:53):
Once this happened a couple of times.
Speaker 7 (40:56):
Clearly it's in his head and he got he got
lucky when he slammed his helmet on kind of that
plastic bench that during the winter gives heat. He didn't
have a horrific fall. I mean, he got like you
gotta fell on that bench, But clearly he's he's pretty
worked up over it, and let's face the heat. You know,
they kind of corralled him. You removed the one twenty
eight yard run. He had twenty two yards in all
(41:18):
of his other carries. So if you corral a guy
like him to ten or eleven carries for twenty ish yards,
you're doing a pretty good job.
Speaker 8 (41:26):
And after that big run, he did nothing.
Speaker 7 (41:28):
The other thing with him, obviously the Hall of Fame guy,
he's actually more potent from like the forty yard line
than he has the goal line because he's so easy
to tackle, you know, in a short yard of situation.
You saw yesterday a couple of times he got cut
off immediately where in the open field, he's not the
most elusive guy, but he has great feet and hen
(41:48):
gets you angled with a speed. But he's not a
great goal line back like you know Montgomery would be
because of size and leverage.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Did you see Lamar get tackled when he tried to
shake the linebacker from the Lions? And I was like, yeah,
I don't know if I've ever seen that happen before.
Right where it is like, wait, has Lamar Jackson become
a human being because he was a superhero before today?
Speaker 8 (42:13):
You know what happens?
Speaker 7 (42:14):
I think it happens in basketball sometimes, especially in college
when you like run and he used to happen for everyone.
The zone defense they like would really throw people off.
He's not used to these guys not springing up the field.
They would all take a couple of steps and like
five of them would have be in different spots where
he scrambled around. If the guy wasn't open immediately, they
would be a couple of yards away from Usually these
(42:36):
defensive linemen and it happens to Kyler, Murray, Josh Allen.
Speaker 8 (42:40):
This the natural pass rush fly up the field.
Speaker 7 (42:42):
Well, these guys are so athletic, and especially if you're
in man defense, all your defensive backs are looking at
the wide receivers and he can just take off for ten, fifteen,
twenty yards. Last night they were just stopping and clearly
they have athletic defensive linemen, but definitely have athletic linebackers.
Did I think there was just a guy every four
or five yards and you got to get the line
(43:03):
of credit. They tackled well in space, and they got
him a lot.
Speaker 8 (43:06):
In his legs.
Speaker 7 (43:07):
Sometimes those guys die for Lamar and they missed. It
felt like every time they died and got his ankles
like he was going down. I'm with da, I've never
seen that. I don't think it's going to be a
theme but I would imagine Spagnola this week, in the
best one to two matchup you'll ever see, is going
to try to do that because they exploded him down
(43:28):
before and all of a sudden, we could be looking
up and the Ravens are one and three.
Speaker 8 (43:32):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 7 (43:33):
Does They're missing Matabuke, who's an unreal d tackle and
Van Noy who they hired off basically McAfee show, who
turned back into a pro bowler. Those two guys missing,
the Ravens looked unraven like, and Dan Campbell in that unit,
they leaned on them all night long and kind of
embarrassed them that you rarely see the Ravens get shut like. Offensively,
(43:55):
they have some off games. They still stored I mean
a lucky thirty points, but they were in the mid
twenty right even without.
Speaker 8 (44:00):
The last touchdowns.
Speaker 7 (44:01):
But the defense just I mean, you could remove the
seventy yard run and they got one hundred and fifty
yards and ran on them when you know the runs
are coming. So that's I think the Ravens defensively they
started slow last year too, but losing these two front
guys has a huge impact on their physicality.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Russell Wilson is no longer the starting quarterback of the
New York Giants, right, And I know we can talk
about Jackson Dart and our expectations of Jackson Dart, but
I want to take it just a second. That's the
last he'll be a starting quarterback. He may start a
game at some point in time the season, maybe not,
but like that's it, right, I mean, this is what
(44:42):
four teams in six years, and yeah, I just this,
this was he he couldn't do it with the Steelers
didn't want him, Giants don't want them, Broncos didn't want them,
Seahawks were done with him. Like this is a weird
end to a Hall of Fame caliber career where if
(45:02):
he comes back, he'll have to be a backup that
could occasionally spot start and you know, hope somebody you know,
or do the Flaco maybe maybe you get you know,
a team a on a down year, but otherwise, like
if he chooses to stay in the game, he probably
goes to TV. He's gonna be a backup, correct.
Speaker 7 (45:18):
Yeah, I mean I would say he wouldn't be even
backup caliber because he's so famous and he got to
that kind of tipping point where he's almost too big
of a star to be a backup quarterback. It does
feel like it's quieted a little bit. You know, it's
been pretty seamless. Now. Last year he went the reverse right,
he was injured and didn't start early and then started
(45:39):
at the end, and then it kind of got weird
at the end. But this year, we'll see how he
handles this situation, because there's still a point that if
it gets weird, if some stuff get the leaked, you
could argue if he's not going to be your starting quarterback,
he's then untouchable.
Speaker 8 (45:52):
It's just not worth it.
Speaker 7 (45:53):
Now if I say that, I would have said that
about Carson Wentz and look at him six for eight years,
starting for six different teams, so you never know. But
obviously Russell's way more famous than Carson Wentz, so yeah,
I would tend to lean not only did his starting
career is definitely over. I think in his spot, like
who is you know? Who who wants him? Right? Would
(46:16):
you want him around your young quarterback? I don't know.
Typically teams like like case Keenum, you know, they like
their backup to actually be not very famous, right, used
to that role and then who you know like a
Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Like, I don't think you do
that either, Like, where does he where does he fit
in the hierarchy of the way the league works. We
have a lot of veteran quarterbacks now that start and
(46:39):
then that group of young guys, which I don't really
know if he fits in that loop. So you could
argue it could just be this offseason. Would you be
stunned if we're going like midway through training camp and
he doesn't have a home.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
No, I think I think he does TV, that's my guess.
Speaker 7 (46:55):
But he's terrible, Like, well he doesn't say anything.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, I know, he's awful, Jay stew I don't know
that was on air in my aria's awful. Yeah, there's
lots of guys on TV that are awful. Won a
super Bowl. It's a good looking guy, his wife's famous. Okay,
there's all these networks. They're hiring a lot of people.
If we if we want to play the game of
who's really good, there's plenty of guys that say nothing
that are on TV. Because he's a Hall of Fame quarterback.
Speaker 8 (47:20):
Yeah, you just throw him on a studio show. He's famous.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, sure, and he can say he can say smart things.
He just never He's just tried to always, always, you know,
playkate people with his opinions. So that's fine.
Speaker 7 (47:32):
You know, there's someone hit me up and they're like,
you know, we we have this debate a lot, right,
It's Stafford a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 8 (47:37):
And you go back and forth.
Speaker 7 (47:38):
And I like my hall of Fame to be like
pretty elite.
Speaker 8 (47:41):
Group of guys, likes the Mannings, the Brady.
Speaker 7 (47:44):
But let's just say, like obviously, once we start talking
about the next tier of guys, Russell Wilson's a way
more accomplished player over the course of his career in
terms of Pro Bowls, in terms of just winning than
than Stafford was. And I I think you know, these
debates because if you just have most people that think
of the end of his career is so bad, people
(48:05):
forget how awesome he was in his prime and he
was a pretty special player there for like five six years.
But the ending is, man, I mean, you talked.
Speaker 8 (48:15):
About him sip of his drop off.
Speaker 7 (48:16):
It's it's pretty ugly ending.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Uh Well, we started with an ugly ending, we end
with an ugly ending. But he's not an ugly ending.
He's John Mindlcoff. The volume is where you can find
his three and out podcast, You're the Best, Johnny, Thanks
for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR Booming Up America
Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Hope you're having a
(00:24):
great day. The Doug Gottlieb Show brought to you by
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with the code fallow twenty five Bring the boom X Boom. Well,
what to talk about? What to talk about? Is it
(00:47):
divisive or divisive? Tomato tomato, potato potato. We'll get to that.
Oh yeah, by the way, Ravens lose again a game
in which the offense was really good, then big fumble
in the fourth quarter and the offense goes. We'll get
(01:07):
to what that means for Lamar and for the Ravens,
or maybe we should talk more about the Lions, who,
after a first week dud, have been outstanding against the
Bears and the Ravens in back to back weeks. However
you want to look at it. Plus major League Baseball
coming to an end here as we're getting close to
the wild card next week, maybe we'll pick Jay Stew's
(01:29):
brain on what he thinks of the Dodgers, the Brewers,
the Cubs, the Padres, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
But I think this one's at my wheelhouse, right Like
you guys are all like this one. We kind of
know what I got my buddies, Like, what are you
going to talk about today? Mike Gundy, for twenty one
years was the head coach at Oklahoma State. He's relieved
of his duties today. The winningest coach in the history
(01:51):
of Oklahoma State football. I'll I'll just give it to
you straight. I did not think he would be fired.
And the logic behind it is, as you heard from
Dan Byer, they owe him fifteen million on a buyout.
They just hired an entirely new staff. The two coordinators,
one of which Doug Meachum's now the interim head coach
(02:13):
has a three year, one one million dollar per year deal,
so they're still on the hook for the rest of
this season and then two more seasons. I think the
total is like fourteen to fifteen million, and then you're
gonna have to have a new team. Right, All these
players now have thirty days in which they could leave,
and you're like, well, school's already started. The schools on
the quarter system have not have not started yet, so
(02:36):
I don't think any of these guys are leaving now,
but they could, but they're gonna all be gone by
the end of the year, and you have a whole
new staff and a whole new team. And if this
team costs you, I was told thirteen million dollars, let's
just be conservative, fifteen fourteen, thirteen for just this head coach,
this staff, and this roster. Right, you're looking at forty
two ish million dollars, okay, and then you have to
(02:59):
go get a new team. This one was thirteen, stands
a reason fifteen to twenty next year if you actually
want to be competitive, and this coaching staff again, just
even in for a one year, you're like your first year,
you're gonna have to pay at least five for a
head coach and then probably somewhere in the neighborhood of
ten for assistant coaches. Right, so you're at fifteen plus twenty.
(03:23):
That's thirty five plus whatever forty two. That's a lot
of money. And despite the fact that you're told by
people who don't know anything about anything that there's ungodly
some of money out there, there's not that much money
in oklanm State. Now. I have been told there are
some loopholes and some things like vet med sitting on
like thirty three hundred million that they think they can
(03:45):
use for this. Whatever. The point is, it's a lot
of money. It's a lot of money. Let me tell
you why. The timing of it and what they have
done is absolutely positively wrong, and it's wrong for a
myriad of reasons. The number one reason is, hey, I
thought we were different. You know, my brother, he's been
(04:08):
in coaching for a long time and he went to UCLA,
graduated from UCLA. In the middle he actually played basketball Drake,
which has become kind of a powerhouse in the Missouri
Valley in Des Moines, Iowa. And he told me a
long time ago an expression that I don't believe because
I have what I believe is a really good relationship
(04:28):
with my alma mater, which is Hey, the second you
care too much about your own matter, just remember they
don't care about you. So Mike Gundy shouldn't have kept
his job because he's in Oklahoma state of lum. But
what exactly was accomplished today? Just think about this for
(04:50):
a second. Okay, and again, this is a topic I
know a lot about and some of you do because
we're on in Oklahoma. You know, people have listened to
the show forever. Again, last year, I thought he made
those comments about his running back who got a DUI?
Nothing I haven't done a thousand times. You're like, what
he got away with saying things that no one else
(05:10):
could won because he was glib and that's just who
he was, and he worked out but two because they won.
He did it, did it for a long time. But
it's wrong because let's just take any coach, but especially
one who isn't alum and has been successful for nineteen
and a half years. Right, last year this time Oklahoma
(05:32):
State was ranked fourteenth in the country. Last year this
time Oklahoma State was eight. So that is a precipitous decline.
So now either the old man stopped working. He's not
really that old, but he stopped working, or the game
passed him by, or maybe I don't know, maybe this
is just a whole new world again. I was against
(05:56):
UCLA firing Deshaun Foster, but Deshaun got a job that
I don't think anybody thought he had a chance for
also in lum But three games into his second year,
what are we doing. What's the purpose of being a
coach if you can't have problems and try and fix
those problems. What's the purpose having a contract if you
can't let somebody at least go through the second year
(06:16):
of it. Virginia Tech it was his fourth year, was
a weird tie. They never got to go in. They're
chasing the glory of a program in the past when
they were in a different league, in a different time,
in a different era, and they're trying to get it back.
I understand it's hard a Virginia Tech, but none of
neither of those two were the winningest coaches at a
(06:38):
place or had just two years ago won ten games
at a place where they started by the way two
years ago, losing to South Alabama at home, which is
as bad or as worse loss than to Tulsa this
past Friday. But here's the point. At the end of
last season, there was a coup de'tas there were people
(06:58):
in the athletic department more people that were donors, and
I believe the governor, Governor Stitt in Oklahoma, who wants
to be the president of Oklahoma State, tried to have
a coupd ata. They wanted to fire Mike Gundhy, and
Mike Gundhy had a contract which was unfireable. So even
as an alumna, a friend of Gandy and a fan
of like, a twenty five million dollar buyout on a
(07:20):
rollover contract is ridiculous, So they tried to come up
with some kakamami plan to fire him for cause if
he wasn't willing to change the terms of his contract
and sign a new contract. He acquiesced sign a new
contract that now had a fifteen million dollar buyout, and
he acquiesced and wiped out his staff people that he
worked with for years, and hired a whole new staff.
(07:43):
Were three games in to a new staff, three games
in to a season. Two and a half of those
games they played without their starting quarterback and broke his
foot on the third series of the season. The starting
quarterback who came over with the offensive coordinator. They copied
the Oklahoma model, And you're gonna fire you're winning his coach? Ever,
(08:10):
why because he might win games. Here's a news flash.
I don't know if anybody knows this. Even if Mike
Gundy won every game the rest of the season, if
you want to fire him, do you know how much
it cost you? Fifteen million dollars? If he loses every
game the rest of the season, do you know much
it cost you? Fifteen million dollars? But you're supposed to
(08:31):
do it the right way. Was it embarrassing to lose
to Tulsa? Yes? Yes, yes. Last time they lost Tulsa
was nineteen ninety eight. I know. I was there. I
was a student. We drove down to Tulsa, watched football
guys play. It was in the rain. It was awful,
and Tulsa was sort of decent then, I think, and
(08:51):
Oaklhom State was not. But it felt terrible. Bad scheduling
all around. Don't play the Oregon game. They're on a
completely different trajectory than you, And don't play Tulsa because
there's no win in playing Tulsa. The same reason Wisconsin
won't play US is because they beat us. You're supposed
to beat us. If you lose, it's the end of
the world. I get it. But three games in to
(09:16):
a twenty one year career, when you've done nothing but
win up until the last calendar year, you fire a
guy who just hired a new staff, has sixty three
new players. All that is is you have people who
think that the answer is always fire everybody, start over,
(09:39):
do it as quickly as possible. What change for the
program today? How do they put themselves on some different trajectory?
What change for this weekend? Is Baylor kid? Nothing. All
you've done is say whatever hope there was of having
any sort of positive season, you've completely thrown out the door. Yeah,
(10:00):
by the way, like you're my Gundy. He wasn't probably
gonna go quietly. But you very easily could have gone
in at mid season and be like, listen, we got
the money, we're gonna buy you out. We want to
do this the right way. Let's make this the going
away tour. But instead you just do it to get splash.
You do it in the middle of the week. It's Tuesday.
(10:20):
They play Saturday at home at home, And I know
who the people are who are making these decisions. And
again a lot of them have been, Hey, I got
this money, I want this coach, I want that coach
they did in basketball a couple of years ago. So
they're putting up their good, harder money because they're all
(10:41):
the monitor and they want to buy a winner. But
nothing you have done today makes you closer to being
a winner, none, cause you're gonna have to start from
scratch next year, regardless, completely over, new staff, new program,
new everything. And again that's gonna take time. You think,
I don't know that, I'm living it. So this is
(11:05):
not a coach to a coach defending a coach. I
said yesterday, I thought he actually should have gotten until
next year. What's the point of reworking his deal? What's
the point of saving yourself ten million dollars for three
games when you lose your starting quarterback three series in right,
And you can say, well, when you know, you know,
(11:25):
but you don't know, you have no idea what they have.
And yeah, they missed on some guys in the portal.
They weren't great. It's really really hard to have fifteen
or twenty practices and then go play, you know, a
football game. Kind of hard. So again, this is not
me saying you can't fire a coach. That's not me
saying you can't fire an alone. You can. This is
(11:45):
not me saying you can't fire the winningest coach in
the history of Oklahoma State football. You absolutely positively have
the right to do so. But why now because idiots
on TV and on the internet think that you can
get John Gruden, which you can't, or think that this
doesn't put you in pole position to go get a coach.
Doesn't change anything. You still have to go and evaluate
(12:10):
who you think and figure out what their plan is,
figure out how much money you have, what name is
going to generate you the most money for people who
donate money, so one you can continue to buy out process,
but also to raise money for new players. All of
these things they don't change. But Oklahoma State was supposed
(12:32):
to be different because he's one of us. It doesn't
buy you a lifetime appointment. It doesn't mean that you're
impervious to anything. It doesn't mean that you have to
stay there for years to come and fulfill the entirety
of your contract doesn't mean that. But it's supposed to
mean something. Twenty one years of excellence is supposed to
(12:53):
mean something. It doesn't. And that's where we are in
college sports, not everywhere. But it sucks that it's my
alma mater that was supposed to be a different place,
that was supposed to be a place where, hey, cowboys
hire cowboys and we take care of cowboys. And look
(13:14):
they had they hired, you know, the longtime legendary wrestling coach,
John Smith retired a year and a half ago. They
hired David Taylor wrestling coach. He's a Penn State guy.
He's been unbelievable. And I'm sure that there's a lot
of people around still Water they're like, hey, we don't
have to hire Oakham State guys. David Taylor's not He's awesome.
(13:35):
It's a great hire. He's been spectacular. But did you
do that three matches into the season? Three games into
the season. And this just reiterates something that I've often believed.
I tell people all the time, you don't go shop hungry, right,
(13:57):
you don't go shop hungry. Why don't you go shop
hungry because you'll go buy stuff that you didn't actually
wint like that sounds good. That sounds good. That sounds good.
That sounds good. You come home and your wife, your
girlfen's like what you get. I was like, well, you know,
I got orchata because that sounds good. And then I
got steak because that sounds good. And then I got chicken,
and then I got sushi, and then I got They're like, whoa,
(14:19):
all this is fresh, It's all gonna go bad. Why
do I let you go shopping when you're hungry? But
you don't make decisions when you're embarrassed. Catch your breath,
find your balance, make the smart decision. This is not
one of them, because however bitter my Gundy may have been,
when ultimately you let him go. Now, okay, now, I
(14:45):
mean you lost a huge chunk of your university in
your football family, because you're very likely to hire somebody
outside of the football family is going to do things new,
and now all those people that used to come around
for all the games because they played for one coach
for twenty years. And now it's not just that he's gone,
it's that he's really bitter about it, and you embarrassed
him by firing him three games in with a whole
(15:07):
new team and a whole new coaching staff. What's the
hurt and waiting? He might win more games? Okay, you
can still fire him. You're still allowed to.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
This is the best of the Done Dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
But you Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. iHeartRadio. App Welcome, Welcome, Welcome,
in hope, you're having a great day. The Doug Gottleep
Show broadcast from northeast Wisconsin and southern California where those guys,
thankfully I know where they live. They live in the
other direction. But if you've got to go on the
four or five south from Sherman Oaks with them fixing
(15:50):
like three lanes a night, good luck, oh, good luck
to you, Good luck to you. Baseball cranking up cause
we're getting ready for October Octoba football. I mean, how
many coaches now it was this three major college head
coaches plus Stanford's open that have already been fired. We're
(16:10):
like not even to October yet. And yeah, the Cowboys
are terrible. Who are we going to make fun of
in the playoffs this year when they lose early? Not
the Cowboys A lot to get to a lot to digest.
But we're just here doing the do and getting you
ready for another week of ball. As we react to
(16:31):
last night's when of the Lions taking down the Ravens
in Baltimore, how to do Baltimore fans, Baltimore, Baltimore, Baltimore.
And there's lots of things that we got to yesterday.
Major points we have on. We had Tom Telesco on,
we had doom miin ocaff on. Today. We talk a
lot of ball, but there are always things that get missed.
(16:53):
I've always thought, hey, could we do our true duties
and show people, hey, we pay attention to more than
just the Cowboys suck or Kayleb Booms was good? Or
the Lions Ravens last night standalone games, or even the
Chargers that Jay Stu and I are celebrating first three
and oh starts since two thousand and two. We do
that with Tuesday Morning Quarterback.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, Tuesday, this is Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon.
Mondays can be overwhelming. Tuesdays are getting to whatever we
didn't get.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
To on Monday.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
This is Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon yeah, you know. Look,
Bryce Young wasn't great on Sunday, but if you take
what he did in the second half of their second
game that they lost when he was cooking, and then
you factor in Michael pennocks By though was awful. Two
(17:52):
terrible picks. We haven't discussed it. We haven't gone to
detail of it. I don't know where we are on
Bryce Young. He's a little bit better than the got
to get him out. Remember last year he got polled
as being a starter at times, but we all kind
of anointed Mike Pennix as like, hey, he's a dude.
Now definitely didn't play like it this past weekend. He's
(18:14):
had They're one and two in their own right. He's
had a kind of mere curiol second year and now
first year is a full time starter. Like again, just
something to keep your eye on, as when Kirk Cousins
stunk and they put him in. Everybody fell in love
with Pennix because of his play at Indiana and at
Washington and he just got a rifle arm And how
(18:35):
good is he really? I honestly think the jury is
still out.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
You've got cat scratch fever. This is second straight week
you had picked Panthers on there Tuesday morning quarterback in
the afternoon. Yeah, the comeback against the Cardinals that just
fell short in that crazy game in week two, and
they seem to carry that momentum into week three.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
I know whose ears are perked up right now, Big Mike,
Big Mike in the backs of Carolina Panther fans. He's
loving this.
Speaker 5 (19:01):
Yeah, you could all you can also say that Doug
repeating his Tuesday morning quarterback is getting Bryce fulled.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
The Panthers have the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I didn't get that one. Okay.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
The Panthers have the Patriots coming up in Week four,
so that will be an interesting matchup and as a
perfect transition to the game and the teams that I
want to talk about, and that's the Steelers and the
New England Patriots. Oh please, do I think we look
on the surface and say, great win by Pittsburgh. Pitts,
that's why you bring in Aaron Rodgers. Great job, That's
(19:39):
why you do it. New England turned the ball over
five times in that contest, including a goal line fumble
by Romandre Stevenson where they're about to get points and
then they don't get points. But five turnovers in that
game that was dominated by the Patriots, and I think
New England probably will have some growing pains and they're
(20:01):
experiencing them right now with that loss to Pittsburgh. They
were able to hold off the feisty Dolphins in Week
two and lost a weird game to the Raiders in
Week one. But Pittsburgh's two and one, and I don't
even know how good they are. The Seattle game has
the muff kickoff return right, Caleb Johnson, Iowa product, messes
(20:27):
that out and ultimately that kind of turned out to
be the game, even though the Seahawks won by two scores.
But Aaron Rodgers was average at best against New England
in Week three. So you have a Patriots team at
one and two that I think we're down on that
maybe they aren't as bad. And Drake may threw for
two hundred and sixty eight yards. Now he's got some
(20:48):
fumbling issues and he also threw an interception. Yeah right,
But yeah, I think that New England's a little bit
better than what their records shown. And I don't think.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Some sums up with that Pittsburgh team. They're just not
that good, just not that good.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
It feels like a great time to bring up this too.
Every single year Dan puts a prediction uh list in
the studio for everybody to make predictions, and Sam's out
on a limb of everything in the NFL that he
thinks is out on a limb, like really going out
there on a LEMMI predicted that the Patriots would be
nine and eight.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Little did I know that there? Dan, didn't you say
that their Vegas win total prediction was like eight and
a half. Okay, but they're one and two. I think
if they finished about five hundred.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Samon, let me, let me help you, Sam, like seventy
of the teams in the NFL end up nine and
eight or eight nine. Well, so it's actually the most
reasonable prediction ever, that's what you're getting at.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
It's very on a whim, very close. I didn't think
that they thought he'd be so they'd be decent, Like
I thought that Vrabel would go like, you know, four
and thirteen. Okay, But I should have done this so
my MVP pick with c J. Stroud, I should have
said c J. Stroud's MVP is my out of the
LIMP pick. That would have been a much better pick.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
What happened to c J.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Stroud. I don't know, it's like it's a junior not
I don't know. I'm trying to think of some kind
of is.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
He like dating? Is he dating really now? And his
mom's got to shut that down again like she did previously.
He's the one, He's the one who is it? Himmers it? No,
it's Jane dating and Daniels, Yeah, whose mom like comes
around with him? You know, she's like stenting him from
from the center block. Woman. She's yes, she's center block
in this she is.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
So here's the Texans at all and three, and in
game time, I said, Houston's bad this year. They're bad
relatively to where they were last year.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, they've played at ten and where they were we
expected them to be after two years ago.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
But think of what they've done in the last three weeks.
They lost a tight game to the Rams fourteen to nine,
but they couldn't score a touchdown, So you're like, what's
up with that? Buccaneers score at the end of the game,
come back and win it in week two on Monday
Night football, so you're oh to two. Then you have
Nico Collins fumbling when you're tied up at ten, driving
(23:10):
into score and he loses a fumble, your best offensive player,
best weapon on the team for CJ. Stroud. Then Jacksonville
goes down and scores a touchdown and that's a wrap.
So like, the Texans deserve to say that they're bad
at owen three, but when you look at like how
they did it, they just seem to kind of be
(23:31):
getting in their own way. The offense is not producing points,
but man, it's a tough way to go oh and three,
and I think they only have themselves to blame.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
What'd you say earlier, Dan, you said you asked a question.
I believe it was this.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
What is that that?
Speaker 5 (23:44):
There?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
You go in there?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
How did the Niners get like the softest schedule ever
to where we have no idea how good they are? Right? Seattle,
new quarterback, new coach. Again, I don't know how good
Seattle is. Part of it was the Saints are so bad.
The Saints are so bad, like Donald like, hey, just
don't screw it up, and you're fine here, we're gonna
we're gonna win by a million. But then they played
(24:09):
the Saints. Then they play the Cardinals at home again.
The Cardinals are okay. Now they lost Bosa, Right like
half of their stars they've lost, and they get the
Jags at home next before and then it gets real,
right Rams Buccaneers on the road. But the Niners have
this soft schedule to where like they're three and oh,
I have zero feel for how good they actually are.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
It helps to play the NFC South in the AFC South, this.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Is the NFC West is going to be this year's
AFC West from last year, right where you match up
against the two weakest divisions, and NFC North from last
year the same thing as well. That's why both of
those divisions got.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Three teams in the playoffs. Two and one is in
the last place right now in the NFC West.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
The Niners are their most rickety three and oh team
in the NFL. I think we can agree very.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Rickety rickety meaning they got hurt.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Well, just I mean that they're they're three and oh,
but they've scraped by rickety means I mean like an
old boat, it's squeaky and it's got things falling apart
the injuries.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, but that's not what you just said. You said
that they squeaked by.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
They're rickety rickety is rickety is.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yes, when they're all old and you think they're they're
falling apart. Rickety is when you're like you're on a
wooden roller coaster. Wooden roller coaster, like.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
The bolts are loose, rickety, like a rickety old boat.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
That's roller coaster? Was enough. I thought everybody got the
wooden roller coaster analog roll.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Wooden roller coasters are cool. There's one in Des Moines.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
No, they're not Ventureland there they are not.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Is this gonna last?
Speaker 1 (25:43):
They're they're they're they're not cool. The new ones are amazing, amazing,
Go to six Flags, Go about Batman. I mean, it's
like all comes back to Iowa. That all it comes
back to Iowa. Do you have any think you have
anything to add to this this segment? I mean Dan
came up with it. Jason, go ahead, I thought you
(26:07):
think a little nap.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Doug is sammed up the entire segment by sorry three
topics already.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
There's so much, there's so much talking about we're good.
It's okay to sam it up. It's all good.
Speaker 5 (26:17):
When we came up with the concept for this for
a Tuesday morning quarterback, it's not just the teams that
we didn't get to yesterday. It also could be an
angle on a story we did cover, but just didn't
cover this angle. I don't know if you guys noticed
the end of the Eagles Rams game, but something truly
badass happened. You guys are familiar with the word stoic, Yes,
(26:41):
very composed. It's it's something that is undervalued, especially in
our business behind the scenes. I want you composed. I
want you to be a I want you to be
someone who is stoic, who when the bullets are flying,
you're not running for the doors. I want I love that,
and Jalen Hurts is all of that. So the Rams
(27:05):
are kicking a field goal to win the game. The
Eagles block the kick famously, and the dumb special teamer
picks up and starts running to the end zone. The
entire Eagles sideline is going crazy. Jalen Hurts has his
arms crossed in front of him with a stoic look
on his face, not reacting at all. Then he just
(27:26):
walks to the middle of the field to shake the
quarterback's hand. It reminds me of something we talked about recently.
Remember when Tom Brady went on the podcast and he
talked about how he wants his quarterbacks to react after
touchdowns go ahead.
Speaker 6 (27:40):
That's what I look for all the time when a
quarterbacks throws the touchdown pass. I actually watched to see
who he goes and celebrates with, because what did I do?
I looked for my offensive lineman every time I went
down and celebrated in the end zone with my teammates,
every time, I wanted everyone to feel like they were
part of the success. Told the lineman, we're all running
(28:01):
to the end zone and we're celebrating as a team,
because I think that's way more intimidating than a quarterback
doing his six shooter guns and pointing up in the
crowd and doing all that other bitch. That's very self promotional,
but it's not about winning, and I think winning in
football is about a team always a team attitude.
Speaker 5 (28:21):
First, I thought that Tom Brady in this moment forgot
the third and coolest thing, which is a quarterback throws
a touchdown and he just runs off the field. That's
a badass move. And Jay, when Hurt's doing what he
did on Sunday was a badass move. We just got
away with a game onto the next game. No need
to over celebrate like a bunch of five year olds.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, his reaction was so minimal it was almost alarming
how little he reacted.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
He was just like the Jay Wright winning the National
champions Just boom.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
Larry Bird and Brenchan Miller hit that shot back in
the late nineties. Remember Larry Bird just sat there and
stared at him.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Larry, Larry legend.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
It's working out for Jalen Hurts.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Dan, you got more, Daniel?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
I think it's the Jalen Hurts won a Super Bowl
in February, so he understands that that's the big win.
That's where you celebrate in smile. This was a this
was a business transaction. They've completed, the deal finalized.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
That he's the Billy d of the NFL. He's just
kind of cool. It's kind of cool, kind of yeah,
Oh well, Billy d D any more? Dan, you want
to you want to get any more?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I don't know if you guys are alarmed at seeing this,
this amount of backup quarterbacks at this point in the NFL. Already.
Let me rattle off some names. Toad Taylor, mac Jones,
Jake Browning, Marcus Mariota, Carson Wentz. They all stepped in
for injured starters. A couple of big money, big money
quarterbacks like Brock Purty and Joe Burrow. I'm a little
(29:52):
alarmed because didn't we set a record like last year
or two years ago for the number of quarterback Two
years ago was like sixty, it was like fifty five.
I was sixty seven. It was ridiculous, and we've already
I just feel like we're you know, as they say,
your best ability is your availability. And I'm a little worried.
Why are all these injuries happening? You know, it's all
you can explain it on a case by case basis,
(30:13):
But we're seeing more backups than I think we'd like to,
and I'm I'm sure it brings down the quality of
the game. So I'm just a little alarmed by how
many injuries have taken place at the quarterback position. And
I hope it's not a trend that continues for us
this season.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I'll say this, like I know, Jay stew you are
pretty set in on your on your thought that this
is was it Zuopa right? Last year, the NFL was
so poorly played that it was living on its previous albums,
not on the current album. Like you two at the
Zeropa tier Tour. I think the quality plays and some
level been really good.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Very entertaining.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Lastnight was a good, good level football. It was good.
And the tackling from the Lions. Also the pursuit tackling,
you know, that's one of those things that the guys
that Lamar does go by, they come back and get
they come back and grab his legs while he's about
to make a move the other way. But I think
that the level of play and a lot of these
standalone games, maybe more than the Sunday games, has been good.
(31:07):
And then obviously the finish is Saturday. We said this yesterday,
but it was that early window when you went back
to back to back with crazy finishes, right. It was
with the Browns party oh yeah, Brownspackers, and you had
the Rams Eagles, and then you had the comeback with
the Buccaneers. Buccaneers late drive. All in the early window
was pretty awesome. Good weekend. That's Tuesday morning quarterback. So
(31:33):
so we'll we'll, we'll, well, we'll take you behind the scenes.
So that means we have not developed an outro for
the for We only have an intro for it.
Speaker 5 (31:39):
Sam, I'm just gonna I'm gonna have Bob do another outro,
and it's gonna be called That's Doug's take on Bryce
Young becoming Bryce Old.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Fox Sports Radio had the best sports talk lineup in
the nation yet. Catch all of our shows at Fox
Sports Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
It's Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Hey, make sure
you check out our new YouTube channel. Go to YouTube
dot com slash at Doug Gottlieb Show. If you're already
within YouTube, just search Doug Gottleb Show. Hit that subscribe
button right there there you go, and uh, let me
know how incredible my takes are and my basement is
(32:23):
and Dan Byer always has good hair. All these things
these are appropriate comments. Go check out a brand new
YouTube channel again, subscribe to it, Doug Gottlieb Show, Doug
Gottlieb Show. By what do you think? You're always a
neutral bystander. You're also a huge college football fan. You know,
(32:47):
I process emotions and I'm not gonna say Mike gund
and I are besties. He usually comes on once a
year when I'm personally super nice to me, but we're
not like constantly changing text messages, Christmas cards, whatever. I
just I've never understood this. I got to fire a
guy right now because I'm mad because we lost a
(33:08):
game that I didn't think we should lose or not
as good as we're supposed to be. Instead of going like, okay,
like what's the right thing to do by all people,
this is not It's that's my take.
Speaker 4 (33:17):
I agree, and I think that even from whether it
be from you know, five feet away or five hundred
miles away, it is a bad move because I think
that the outside perspective of Oklahoma State is twofold. So
you see Gundhy being fired there, four year starter at quarterback.
You mentioned all time winning as coach, and it's not
even close. I mean, in being there twenty years, one
(33:39):
hundred and seventy wins, second place is sixty two. So
if there's anybody that's Oklahoma State, it's Mike Gundy. And
if you're a coach and you go there and you say, well,
if I don't get things going, what are they going
to do to me? So that turns I think could
turn candidates off at one point. The other point is
I think from a national perspective of his for the
(34:01):
coaches that we know and that stand out at Oklahoma
State outside of Mike Gundy. There's two of them, Jimmy
Johnson and Less Miles. And those coaches used Oklahoma State
as a stepping stone springboard. Yeah, yeah, it was not Mike.
That was not Mike Gundy's deal. This was his destination.
This was his destiny. If you will so to move
(34:24):
off of Gundhy in this fashion. The next coach you're
going to get is probably going to use you as
a springboard. As you say, I say say stepping stone.
And that's what I think is lost on it from
the outside looking in. It's to be careful what you
wish for. Thing with Oklahoma State.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah yeah, I listen, and it's a lesson. I also
thinks there's an expression in coaching. I don't know if
you has ever heard this. Every year you coach somewhere,
you make an enemy, right, and you coach somewhere long enough,
twenty one years, you make twenty one enemies. Eventually they'll
get you. Now, look, if he's winning game, you go
back to last year, this time the beat Arkansas, they're undefeated,
(35:03):
the rank fourteenth from the country. There were those enemies
were silent, were silent, But you start losing and they
get loud, they get really loud. Again, I continue to
reiterate as my Gundy that Oklahoma state head coach has
lost his job today. He was fired was It ain't
about hiring firing a head coach. It's about doing things
the right way. And then you compounded by the fact
(35:25):
that he's an alum. He was a great quarterback in
one of the few great eras in Oklahoma state history,
and he had been successful for nineteen consecutive years. After
his first year, by the way, when he took over
the job from Less Miles, he ran like nine guys
off because he wanted quality character guys right, So he
(35:47):
kind of sacrificed his first year to build it what
he thought was the right way. And again, it's not
about firing a coach, it's about why are we firing
them three games in the season. Let's ask John middlecoffee.
He joins us now on the Dug The Show on
Fox Sports. Right, do you want to get to NFL
football Ravens defense? What's going on? Why they keep coming
up short in the fourth quarter and second But first,
(36:07):
just your reaction. Mike Gundy out of a job again
from fifteen hundred miles away. How's that feel?
Speaker 7 (36:13):
Yeah, I'd say you could kind of see the writing
on the wall. Obviously last year going three and nine.
You know, I always struggle, like you said, three games in,
just get the divorce last offseason, right, why even do this?
Speaker 8 (36:24):
And I know it's difficult.
Speaker 7 (36:25):
Because, like you said, alumni, you know, I think sometimes
I think you're seeing it. It's a little bit different
because they just made the playoffs last year, But it's
hard to be in a place this long in the
Internet era, with the negativity that surrounds programs, and I
think you're seeing it with Dabo, and I wonder, you know,
there was a loyalty and I think clearly there's a
(36:47):
loyalty with Dabo and Clemson. But like if I could
recommend itaging to Dabo, I'd be like, hey, you got
this negativity, got people already kind of coming for you.
If you get the opportunity to take the forward a job,
like sometimes in your profession, just needs to reset. And
a couple of years ago, you know Dundee and it
was a tough decision turned down Tennessee, right who And
(37:08):
you know this.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Way back, I guarantee that's what he's seeing today should
have taken.
Speaker 7 (37:12):
Tennessee well like in this era with t Moon gone. Yeah, right,
can you imagine Oklahoma State in twenty thirteen in this era, right,
they would have been much They would have been like
Texas Tech. But nowadays it doesn't feel like they regress.
Speaker 8 (37:28):
In terms of that.
Speaker 7 (37:29):
So it's like, is it my first thought that yeah,
is it a good job?
Speaker 8 (37:35):
Because my first thought.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Was no, I honestly think you just hit a home run. John,
I had my brother told me that the same thing.
He's like, you know, the guy at Kansas State was
a great coach in FBS, and he did a great
job his first couple of years. You know, Dabo Sweeney
was an unbelievable coach at Clemson and Mike Gundy, now, right,
is an unbelievable job. What happened to what happened? How
(37:59):
to Texas Tech suddenly become the best team in the
Big twelve because they got a billionaire funding it. It's
really not that hard. It's not that hard look at
and it takes you, and it takes you a couple
of years to kind of figure it out the portal
and all that other stuff. And this is their first
year going on in the portal. Right, so it's you
have more money than other people, you're gonna put a
(38:20):
better team out there, and every perfect.
Speaker 7 (38:24):
Last week text the Tech against Utah these you know
they got first rounders of offensive line. Texas Deck even
their best team offense couldn't stop the soal. Well because
they could never ever get a recruit to come there.
They didn't even waste time talking to them because they
nowadays like, you want NFL recruits, Well this is what
we're offering. Boom will offer you.
Speaker 8 (38:44):
More you come here.
Speaker 7 (38:45):
And Texas Tech got good and obviously I think Joey.
Speaker 8 (38:48):
MacGuire is pretty good too.
Speaker 7 (38:50):
Yeah, it would not be good if Brushon wasn't good,
if you gave Oklahoma States. So it's this is this
is the money game. It's kind of become. You know,
college basketball was like because the shoe contract stuff pre nil,
but now football is basically the same thing that if
you don't have the elite money, you got no shots.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Correct, correct, You gotta get really really lucky, and then
you gotta figure out how you gotta stay healthy.
Speaker 7 (39:16):
Right do you think he retired Mike, Yeah, well I don't.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Know, might do TV. He's got a lot of money,
kids are out of the house, got a gigantic house
to sell, and on how that sells. It's been on
the market for over a year. I don't know. Is
the part of me the things he goes does again? Maybe,
but he has a lot of money and he's got
I think he's actually got a cement business. I don't know.
He's different, dude, I got a question for you then.
(39:42):
I mean, I hear he's got to be on TV.
How good would you be on TV?
Speaker 8 (39:45):
Oh? Well, he's hiring yesterday or Fox? I mean, he'll
be fine.
Speaker 7 (39:49):
Why would his house be for sale?
Speaker 8 (39:51):
Is this something he sees coming? Then?
Speaker 1 (39:54):
No? Uh no, his kids raw out of the house.
It's a huge house with like a menagerie of and
animals and stuff. I just think it was a lot
to maintain, to be honest with.
Speaker 7 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Yeah, they all have these gigantic houses when they have
their kids and they have everybody over whatever, and then
I think their wives are like, dude, this is stupid, Like,
don't I don't want this house?
Speaker 8 (40:13):
Oh wait, our landscaping bill is eight thousand dollars.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
What do we do? Yeah? What are we? What are
we actually doing? John Mindlkoff's our guest here on the
Doug Gottlip Show. Enough College. Okay, so there's a bunch
of things last night with the Lions beating the Ravens.
The first thing is, was Derrick Henry fumble prone?
Speaker 7 (40:29):
Before I thought that yesterday he had three total fumbles
in all of twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four,
it was like almost six hundred and fifty carries and
he has three this year and whatever fifty carries.
Speaker 8 (40:42):
So the answer is no.
Speaker 7 (40:44):
And clearly, you know it's one of those things. You know,
you could say one individual fumble even if it's you know,
bad ball security is a freak play.
Speaker 8 (40:53):
Once this happened a couple of times.
Speaker 7 (40:56):
Clearly it's in his head and he got he got
lucky when he slammed his helmet on kind of that
plastic bench that during the winter gives heat. He didn't
have a horrific fall. I mean, he got like you
gotta fell on that bench, But clearly he's he's pretty
worked up over it, and let's face the heat. You know,
they kind of corralled him. You removed the one twenty
eight yard run. He had twenty two yards in all
(41:18):
of his other carries. So if you corral a guy
like him to ten or eleven carries for twenty ish yards,
you're doing a pretty good job.
Speaker 8 (41:26):
And after that big run, he did nothing.
Speaker 7 (41:28):
The other thing with him, obviously the Hall of Fame guy,
he's actually more potent from like the forty yard line
than he has the goal line because he's so easy
to tackle, you know, in a short yard of situation.
You saw yesterday a couple of times he got cut
off immediately where in the open field, he's not the
most elusive guy, but he has great feet and hen
(41:48):
gets you angled with a speed. But he's not a
great goal line back like you know Montgomery would be
because of size and leverage.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
Did you see Lamar get tackled when he tried to
shake the linebacker from the Lions? And I was like, yeah,
I don't know if I've ever seen that happen before.
Right where it is like, wait, has Lamar Jackson become
a human being because he was a superhero before today?
Speaker 8 (42:13):
You know what happens?
Speaker 7 (42:14):
I think it happens in basketball sometimes, especially in college
when you like run and he used to happen for everyone.
The zone defense they like would really throw people off.
He's not used to these guys not springing up the field.
They would all take a couple of steps and like
five of them would have be in different spots where
he scrambled around. If the guy wasn't open immediately, they
would be a couple of yards away from Usually these
(42:36):
defensive linemen and it happens to Kyler, Murray, Josh Allen.
Speaker 8 (42:40):
This the natural pass rush fly up the field.
Speaker 7 (42:42):
Well, these guys are so athletic, and especially if you're
in man defense, all your defensive backs are looking at
the wide receivers and he can just take off for ten, fifteen,
twenty yards. Last night they were just stopping and clearly
they have athletic defensive linemen, but definitely have athletic linebackers.
Did I think there was just a guy every four
or five yards and you got to get the line
(43:03):
of credit. They tackled well in space, and they got
him a lot.
Speaker 8 (43:06):
In his legs.
Speaker 7 (43:07):
Sometimes those guys die for Lamar and they missed. It
felt like every time they died and got his ankles
like he was going down. I'm with da, I've never
seen that. I don't think it's going to be a
theme but I would imagine Spagnola this week, in the
best one to two matchup you'll ever see, is going
to try to do that because they exploded him down
(43:28):
before and all of a sudden, we could be looking
up and the Ravens are one and three.
Speaker 8 (43:32):
But here's the thing.
Speaker 7 (43:33):
Does They're missing Matabuke, who's an unreal d tackle and
Van Noy who they hired off basically McAfee show, who
turned back into a pro bowler. Those two guys missing,
the Ravens looked unraven like, and Dan Campbell in that unit,
they leaned on them all night long and kind of
embarrassed them that you rarely see the Ravens get shut like. Offensively,
(43:55):
they have some off games. They still stored I mean
a lucky thirty points, but they were in the mid
twenty right even without.
Speaker 8 (44:00):
The last touchdowns.
Speaker 7 (44:01):
But the defense just I mean, you could remove the
seventy yard run and they got one hundred and fifty
yards and ran on them when you know the runs
are coming. So that's I think the Ravens defensively they
started slow last year too, but losing these two front
guys has a huge impact on their physicality.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Russell Wilson is no longer the starting quarterback of the
New York Giants, right, And I know we can talk
about Jackson Dart and our expectations of Jackson Dart, but
I want to take it just a second. That's the
last he'll be a starting quarterback. He may start a
game at some point in time the season, maybe not,
but like that's it, right, I mean, this is what
(44:42):
four teams in six years, and yeah, I just this,
this was he he couldn't do it with the Steelers
didn't want him, Giants don't want them, Broncos didn't want them,
Seahawks were done with him. Like this is a weird
end to a Hall of Fame caliber career where if
(45:02):
he comes back, he'll have to be a backup that
could occasionally spot start and you know, hope somebody you know,
or do the Flaco maybe maybe you get you know,
a team a on a down year, but otherwise, like
if he chooses to stay in the game, he probably
goes to TV. He's gonna be a backup, correct.
Speaker 7 (45:18):
Yeah, I mean I would say he wouldn't be even
backup caliber because he's so famous and he got to
that kind of tipping point where he's almost too big
of a star to be a backup quarterback. It does
feel like it's quieted a little bit. You know, it's
been pretty seamless. Now. Last year he went the reverse right,
he was injured and didn't start early and then started
(45:39):
at the end, and then it kind of got weird
at the end. But this year, we'll see how he
handles this situation, because there's still a point that if
it gets weird, if some stuff get the leaked, you
could argue if he's not going to be your starting quarterback,
he's then untouchable.
Speaker 8 (45:52):
It's just not worth it.
Speaker 7 (45:53):
Now if I say that, I would have said that
about Carson Wentz and look at him six for eight years,
starting for six different teams, so you never know. But
obviously Russell's way more famous than Carson Wentz, so yeah,
I would tend to lean not only did his starting
career is definitely over. I think in his spot, like
who is you know? Who who wants him? Right? Would
(46:16):
you want him around your young quarterback? I don't know.
Typically teams like like case Keenum, you know, they like
their backup to actually be not very famous, right, used
to that role and then who you know like a
Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Like, I don't think you do
that either, Like, where does he where does he fit
in the hierarchy of the way the league works. We
have a lot of veteran quarterbacks now that start and
(46:39):
then that group of young guys, which I don't really
know if he fits in that loop. So you could
argue it could just be this offseason. Would you be
stunned if we're going like midway through training camp and
he doesn't have a home.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
No, I think I think he does TV, that's my guess.
Speaker 7 (46:55):
But he's terrible, Like, well he doesn't say anything.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, I know, he's awful, Jay stew I don't know
that was on air in my aria's awful. Yeah, there's
lots of guys on TV that are awful. Won a
super Bowl. It's a good looking guy, his wife's famous. Okay,
there's all these networks. They're hiring a lot of people.
If we if we want to play the game of
who's really good, there's plenty of guys that say nothing
that are on TV. Because he's a Hall of Fame quarterback.
Speaker 8 (47:20):
Yeah, you just throw him on a studio show. He's famous.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, sure, and he can say he can say smart things.
He just never He's just tried to always, always, you know,
playkate people with his opinions. So that's fine.
Speaker 7 (47:32):
You know, there's someone hit me up and they're like,
you know, we we have this debate a lot, right,
It's Stafford a Hall of Famer.
Speaker 8 (47:37):
And you go back and forth.
Speaker 7 (47:38):
And I like my hall of Fame to be like
pretty elite.
Speaker 8 (47:41):
Group of guys, likes the Mannings, the Brady.
Speaker 7 (47:44):
But let's just say, like obviously, once we start talking
about the next tier of guys, Russell Wilson's a way
more accomplished player over the course of his career in
terms of Pro Bowls, in terms of just winning than
than Stafford was. And I I think you know, these
debates because if you just have most people that think
of the end of his career is so bad, people
(48:05):
forget how awesome he was in his prime and he
was a pretty special player there for like five six years.
But the ending is, man, I mean, you talked.
Speaker 8 (48:15):
About him sip of his drop off.
Speaker 7 (48:16):
It's it's pretty ugly ending.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Uh Well, we started with an ugly ending, we end
with an ugly ending. But he's not an ugly ending.
He's John Mindlcoff. The volume is where you can find
his three and out podcast, You're the Best, Johnny, Thanks
for joining us. We really appreciate it.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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