May 17, 2025 • 43 mins
On this edition of The Best Of The Week of the Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug weighs in on the details of the new book about young quarterbacks and Caleb Williams. Doug welcomes NFL Analyst and prolific podcaster John Middlekauff onto the show to talk about Caleb Williams, Aaron Rodgers and all of the other major headlines around the NFL.
Doug explains what makes the Pacers different from the other NBA teams and offers up a theory on how they have been able to make it to the Eastern Conference Finals two years in a row.
Doug reacts to the breaking news that Major League Baseball has lifted the ban on Pete Rose, making him eligible for the Hall of Fame.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Box Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR Doug Gottlieb Show,
(00:21):
Fox Sports Radio. Yeah. So, uh, I just I can't
imagine running the Chicago Bears today. And look, I'm sure
they were giving a heads up. But seg Wick or
Sham has a new book out right. Remember he wrote
(00:42):
a book on Brady and Belichick at the End of
the Patriots outstanding writer obviously works for ESPN as well.
And this is an excerpt from a new book called
Biography of the Quarterback. Okay, so it says quarterback Caleb
Williams was so concerned about being picked by the Chicago
(01:03):
Bears in twenty twenty four he and his family weighed
circumventing the entire NFL draft, consulting with lawyers trying to
figure out a way around the league's Collective Party agreement
while considering signing with the UFL. Details from a forthcoming
book reveal Chicago is the place that quarterbacks go to die.
Carl Williams, Caleb's father, told Seth Wickersham, author of American
(01:25):
King's biography of quarterback Kleb. Williams, wandered out loud, do
I want to go there? I don't think I can
do it with Shane Waldron. Now there is some confirmation
by Shane Waldron is no longer there as their offense
cornerer offensive staff has gone. Ben Johnson's in. He's widely
seen as an offensive savann and they've surrounded him with
a talented group of wide receivers and tried to fix
(01:46):
the offensive line. But I can tell you unequivocally that
if you're critical of a place before, you've ever worked
out of place. When you're working at that place and
it gets out, the die is sort of cast and
(02:08):
like look, you can go around and around and say, hey,
it was about Shane Waldron, but the dad was like,
Chicago it's for quarterbacks go to die. Like Hm, you
could have said the same thing about Detroit. You could
have said the same thing about how many of these
teams were terrible? How many years did the Kancity Chiefs
lose in the losing the playoffs at home despite an
(02:30):
unbelievable for like, history is what it is until it's changed, right,
The Golden State Warriors were bad for forty years and
then they got Stephen Curry and Clay Thompson and they're
the best team. They went seventy three games, and then
they added Kevin Durant. They won. You know, they won
four NBA titles together. You know, Cleveland hadn't won to
get Lebron. They almost win one, he goes away, comes back,
(02:50):
they went won again, they win one. But man, that's
gotta be that's hard that it's again. And I think
Bears fans are hardcore football fans that probably like, yeah,
that's right, you know, we've had so many. But it's
(03:11):
it's when you try to circumvent the rules, when you
tried to do anything in your power to not go
to Chicago and you're you're the quarterback of the Chicago
Bears and you don't have a particularly good first year.
WHOA that is really hard to dig yourself out of.
That really hard, oh man. And it's also another case
(03:43):
of it's like the Aau dad now becoming the pro
dad is Carl Williams of former offensive coordinator or a
quarterback coach, or do he play in the NFL? Does
he know something about the inner workings. No, he's just
a dad who loves his kid. But they think they
know everything. And he says out loud to a guy
(04:08):
writing a book, Ah, Chicago is where quarterbacks go. All
this stuff you heard about him trying to pull up
Eli Manning was in fact true. And again the only
reason that Eli Manning survived that was when he's a Manning.
It's the chosen family of college of NFL football. And two,
(04:29):
you want to super Bowls and John Elway right didn't
want to be Annapolis Colt ends up being a Denver Bronco,
gets a couple of super Bowls, then wins to Super
Bowls late in his career. Otherwise like, he's just the
guy who talked ish on the Indianapolis Colts. But those
(04:50):
quotes are damning even if they're true. You sho never
anybody ever say like, yeah, I can't win there ever ever,
because of two things. One, these quotes last forever, and
then two, anything happened previously has nothing to do with
(05:11):
the current status. And anybody who thinks otherwise is an
absolute idiot, because I can prove it based upon everything
we've shown you. In sports. Chicago White Sox had won
a title in a World Series title in eighty eight years,
they won one. We saw the Red Sox win one
first time in eighty six years they won one. Tell
me anywhere where a quarterback goes to die or whatever.
If he's a good enough quarterback, he's a good enough quarterback.
(05:33):
And oh yeah, by the way, you went out and
got the absolute best offensive coordinator, head coaching candidate in
the league, everybody less than over Ben Johnson. No one
will argue with that. So if you can't do it now,
it's on you, not on Chicago. And what happens is
when things go bad, then they dog Pylon. I don't
(05:58):
want my son playing for the b the dad said
to several agents in twenty four The rookie cap is
just unconstitutional, later adding to the CBA is the worst
piece of I've ever read. It's the worst in sports history.
I need to go to the Vikings. He told his father,
Let's do it. His dad replied, but both Caleb and
(06:21):
Carl knew the trade to a division rivals was extremely unlikely. Now,
look for what's was understandable is they did nail that.
The Vikings have an outstanding head coach who's a former
quarterback and coordinator and gets it. Plus they have good
skill position talent. Plus playing indoors is easier than playing
in Soldier Field, where the turf is terrible, the wind
(06:42):
is bad, the weather is cold, all of those things.
But you're being critical of the CBA, and again there's
no historical understanding or respect to it, Like why why
was the CBA so that rookies have a controlled salary?
(07:03):
Well because Sam Bradford got fifty one million dollars before
he'd ever played a snap, And people are like, that's
insane with the hit rate of quarterbacks. So you don't
like the what the you don't like the union and
what the union agreed to for seven more years. You
(07:25):
don't like the Bears, and you want to play for
the Vikings, who are one of your biggest rivals in division.
It just keeps getting better. Stug gott Leeb Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. John Mentalcoff's our guest, a good
friend of the show, good friend of mine, and tremendous
(07:46):
NFL analyst. Part of the three and now He has
his own three and Now podcast on the Volume podcast network.
I read the Caleb Williams and Carl Williams quotes and
have my own opinion. You've been in the league as
a scout, you cover the league. Now everybody knows your podcast.
What's your reaction when you read what Seth Wickersham quoted?
(08:10):
Hey and his father's saying about the Bears?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, why have an overall take when it comes to
athletes and family members? I really just don't care what
they say or think, because, in fairness to them, they're
so close to the sun, and we have a long
history now of seeing just egregious things get said now,
like the overall theme of the Bears are a place
(08:34):
where quarterbacks go to die, I mean, not an untrue statement.
But then when you're making comments like the rookie scale
is unconstitutional, like I'd argue it's the best thing that's
ever happened in the NFL, or the veterans, the guys
that actually play in the games and then become good
players actually get that money in the two thousands For
(08:54):
those of us that are old enough to remember, I
mean half the first round, does not it? Now their
fifty year option picked up, meaning they are a whiff,
meaning that team is not going to extend them. And
those guys back in the two thousands, especially if you
were drafted high, we're getting a ton of money. A
guy like Kayleb Williams would have got I don't know,
one hundred and twenty million dollars guaranteed or something, and
(09:17):
with like twenty four twenty twenty four economics, we would
have been like, that's a scam. I do appreciate, you know,
Ryan Poles his comment on like we're drafting you deal
with it essentially, But it's hard to read that article, like,
think about this. We got we got one guy who
dominated last year as a rookie, Jaden Daniels, and his
(09:37):
mom's involved making sure women don't ruin his life. And
then you've got this guy who thinks he's like Rosenhaus
meets Goodell. I mean, I just think it's got to
be exhausting. But listen, I've heard of stories going back
to Oklahoma, like this guy's father is heavily involved, right,
I mean, I mean plays the role of like rosenhow
(10:00):
meets his financial manager, meets his dad, And that's just
there's just a lot going on there. Now when it
comes to Caleb, you know, I give him a little
bit of a pass. I mean I don't think he
played very well, but I mean Iba Flus is never
going to be a head coach in the league again.
I mean the Waldrone comments of not telling him what
to watch. So, uh, there's just a lot going on there.
(10:23):
I think the guy reading this smiling the most is
Adam Peters. Why because you got Jake Daniels. I mean,
these are the type articles like.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
No, I I that that that's kind of I'm sorry,
that's kind of My thing is just like this, this
does a lot of harm, right, Like you you have
to be so good to overcome this that you'd rather
play for the Vikings and play for the Bears.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I also think like this is the this is the
big leagues, And yeah, I don't think like how many
NFL players are sitting there reading ESPN dot Com. What
the headline is going to get aggregated, that's going to
go around the league people like oh the wing eland
who cares what the gms and the coach. I think
the players are going to be like, bro, come down.
You know that's where it hurts you. You lose respect
of like bro make them plays. And that gets back
(11:16):
to his comments about the unconstitutional rookie Wade scale. It's like,
you know, give me a break.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Crazy. Well, that's also no history or understanding of how
the rookie quarterback contracts and how the rookie quarterback rookie
contracts were just weighing everybody down. They were too big
considering the misrate on them. Nobody liked him, and you
had holdouts. Now you don't have any holdouts really right.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I also think if you go back to Ryan Poles
in his situation, his job, what what everyone says on
the outside fans, the college football height machine me whoever
melchite or that is completely irrelevant. Your only job is
to get the best player. And I remember, like back
(12:07):
in the day, like Pete Carroll, there would be guys
like he just decommitted to USC and it turned out
Pete Carroll's like, yeah, we don't want you here even
though you're the number two overall. Group saved into this forever.
You know, in football sometimes and I just think in
sports in general, obviously, if there's an Andrew Locke and
Cooper Flag, it's a no brainer. But there were some
people being like I know that Jadan Daniels, you know,
(12:28):
and it was like the Bears, they didn't even bring
it anyone else. And then remember on the flip side,
Adam Peters, because he had the second pick, brought in
them all and he took him the top golf so
he got crushed. That's his job is to figure out,
we're taking a quarterback. We like Jaden the most, but
we better like to steal them all out. The Bears
didn't do any of that. They were just it's almost
(12:49):
like they bought into the hype. Obviously he has a
lot of technysical abilities and he would have been in
the you know, in every discussion. But like they it's
not like they felt like they even came in this
the land of the other dudes. Even if you just
cut it off at like Jaden and Drake may like
we're seriously gonna evaluate the top three talents in the strap,
(13:09):
they're just like, we're all in on this guy. And
they were dealing with this stuff clearly, you know, off
the field pretty early in the process.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Stug out lip show here on Fox Sports Radio. Okay,
let's get to some other stuff. I don't make a
bunch I don't care that much about schedule stuff, but
there's a lot of people that are like hole Jets
Steelers huh early in the season. That means, Hey, that
means that the league knows that Aaron Rodgers is gonna
(13:42):
be a Pittsburgh Steeler. On the other hand, it's like
a three twenty five game, so it's buried and all
of that stuff was pre selected right like those games were.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
We knew.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
It's just a question of when they fit in schedule wise.
Can you make any read on Aaron Rodgers based upon
the Steelers schedule?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, my guess would be the NFL's not really paying
that much attention, Like I think they're not, like they
moved on after last year. He plays great, He's the
least of their worries. I mean, I think the NFL
has shown the Steph Curry lebron of the league is
now the Chiefs.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
They have entered the chat with the Cowboys, who are
just automatic. But you can't really depend on the Cowboys
being good. So Aaron Rodgers and the Packers, you know,
for fifteen years and even last year with the Jets,
they got that treatment. I just don't think if he
plays great If he doesn't, no one loses any sleep.
I actually think the Chiefs, the Bills, the Ravens. At
the end of the day, I think that Aaron Rodgers,
(14:38):
in a weird way, is a little bit of an afterthought.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Okay, let me ask you about the Cincinnati Bengals. I look,
I don't know enough about the individual negotiations of the Bengals,
but when a guy says, wow, it's gotten personal now
I'm breaking it off, like, Okay, you're not going to
sit out, they can franchise tag you. What do you
(15:06):
think goes on there with interesting?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I do think this situation is a little complicated. I mean,
if you turn on every former players like you gotta
play them, it's like, well, what would what's just best
GM in the league? Howie Roseman. This was not a
player they drafted. This is a player that they signed after,
you know, to a second contract coming from another team,
who then became a high level player who's under contract
(15:30):
and who wants an enormous extension. Like let's use two examples.
Max Crosby, who's drafted into that organization. The owner loves him,
He's the best player in the team by a mile.
They're not paying anybody else and Miles Garrett, who's I
mean besides like Jim Brown gonna go down to one
of the most talented players in the history of the franchise.
That's the type of contract he's not. He's playing like,
(15:51):
Y'll just give me like two years forty million dollars
like the going rate for high end pass rushers this
and he's an older player, Like, I just think it's
a complicated situation. And they also it'd be one thing.
It's like, well the Bengals, you know, they're kind of
going cheap that they're paying their quarterback huge money and
they paid two wide receivers, like they've kind of proven
the guys they've drafted, they've done all in and they're
just a little leery on this. And I think it's easy.
(16:14):
Like you said, I don't know what the tax exchange
was between him and the coach. The situation. You know,
she didn't help Mike Brown's daughter or some of her
comments didn't help the situation. There's a reason like forever,
you know, say what you want about Belichick recal, but
forever he didn't say anything because it's like whenever you
put this, it just makes it worse. And I think
(16:35):
it's easy to pick on the Bengals, but I do understand,
like you just think we're gonna give you a hundred
million dollars guaranteed and we're gonna have you like thirty
four years old like that that, I do understand the
risks there.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. John Middlecoff
is our guest.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You know what might be a solution though, just thinking
about it, what is like, hey, how about we make
you hold this year? You know, we give you you
know ten we gets you in the high twenties or whatever,
and then at the end of the year we allow
you to like hit the open market or whatever, and
that gives us flexibility. That gives you flexibility like do
something like that. You could probably like short term play
(17:16):
it because it doesn't feel like the Bengals feel comfortable
giving him a long term contract. And yeah, yeah, but
I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
But I don't think though, why would you let him
on the market when you don't have.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
To You could franchise and trade him.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
You're saying, I guess, yeah, I mean again, I maybe
if you do a two year deal, right you know
where you you you load up. I mean, I just
think it's interesting. The it's like again, older player, Yeah,
we'll give you, we'll give you money. We're just not
going to give you a three four years of money.
That that's that that would be that would be crazy
(17:47):
to crazy to do. I don't think you and I
have spoken since the Pickens trade, since the Pickens trade.
And then he goes kind of scorched earth on Pittsburgh
as he leaves. I felt like that was the classic
trade where Pittsburgh chose culture and Dallas chose talent. Is
(18:11):
that a fair depiction of what happened? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
And I also think you got a factor in, you know, Jerry,
he's trying to strike oil or gold for you know,
with one swing of a hammer and get it on
the cheap. And he did this with Trey Lance when
he failed with Kyle Shanahan. They're trading for a wide
receiver from a franchise who has literally just pushed out.
I don't know you count on you know, five plus
(18:36):
guys who were big tom talons. Now, Antonio Brown was
an elite player, but some of these other guys from
Claypool to Bryant and Deontay Johnson to this guy. It's
like if Tomlins can't deal with this guy at that position,
it's like with Billy Bean for like decade, you know,
like two decades. Every couple of years, he'd have to
trade all of his guys. He wouldn't always ask for
(18:57):
the number one prospect. He'd ask you for like your
fits pro You should probably keep that guy because he's like,
that guy's gonna be a future star. And it's like
the Cowboys or excuse me, the Steelers want to trade
a wide receiver. I would be pretty hesitating. I just
think Jerry he gets a lot of credit for being
this wheeler and dealer. Like the stats on the actual
cash spent he spends. He buys a couple guys spend
(19:20):
a lot of money, you know, the Daks and Ceedee Lambs.
Obviously field play Michael Parsons, but for the most part,
he's not spending as much cash a lot of the
other owners because he tries to get these deals and
put that on a first year head coach that, let's
face it, most people didn't invision be an aad coach
who's also the offensive coordinator slash offensive guy. He feels
like a lot of pressure on Brian Schottenheimer and Dak Prescott.
(19:42):
You know to get George Nickins right.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Surely does middle cooffeere the best man. Love catching up
with you. Let's do so more often. Thanks for being
our guest on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Anybody. This is the best of the Doug gott Lead
Show on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Booming Up America, Doug Gottlieb Show Fick Sports Radio. I
hope you're having a great day. That gott Leap show
broadcasts every day from three to five Eastern noon to
two Pacific. You can figure out in between. And of
course we had the one hour podcast only version of
the show, which drops live right after this year radio
(20:21):
show concludes. Welcome in. The Indiana Pacers are the first
team to qualify for the excuse second team right to
qualify for the conference finals. You got Minnesota, Minnesota, Wait
to Minnesota qualify yet? No wait, they got one more
game to wins. My bad. Okay, so it feels like
it's over because Steph Curry's not playing and because of
(20:42):
how it felt like Jimmy Butler kind of quit. But
the Indiana Pacers move on. The Oklahoma City Thunder retake
a commanding three games to to lead over the Denver Nuggets.
That one moves to Denver for Game six, the nick
will try and eliminate the Celtics. Tonight, they're underdogs in Boston,
(21:03):
up three games to one. Jason Tatum, we had no
word on the extent of the injury, and then he
had Achilles ten in surgery, so we're like, oh, guess
he towards Achilles ten. And and then of course you
got Minnesota and Golden State, which again nuts Tonight feels
like a formality, but it is not until it actually
strikes Zeros. I think the Pacers story is an interesting one, right,
(21:28):
Like I'll just take it to my life for an example.
And one of my friends in coaching, a mentor of mine,
is Chris Beard, who's the head coach at Ole miss
And he's always encouraged me to take a head coaching job.
And his big thing was like, look, the line you
(21:50):
need to use is for any of these programs is
if you want the same result, try it the same way.
If you want a different result, you got to try
it a little differently. And I was talking to another
body of mine who was applying for was a finalist
for a head coaching job, and he's like, hey, my
I was like, well, what would you do to differentiate yourself.
It's like we'd play crazy fast and shoot a ton
of threes, and we feel like at this level, with
(22:14):
our lack of money, we got to be different than
everybody else. We got to play differently. And I think
the pacers, I think they do that they play differently,
that they don't have a superstar talent. They don't. I
think Tyres Haliburton is a tremendous player, and I think
(22:35):
the overrated mantra that follows him, because that's what he
was voted by by NBA players is just a one
they don't respect him, and two, most importantly, I think
they just think he runs his mouth too much, considering
he hasn't done enough in the playoffs. And that's again
that's not me saying it. It's my guess of why
(22:57):
he was voted as such because I didn't know he
was super high rated. I didn't know that actually happened.
So it just feels like that's their way of saying,
I don't like that guy. That's really it. I don't
like that guy, So this is what I'm gonna do.
But he's been amazing and they just smoked the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Here's hal Burton talking about their team style.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
We're different than every other team in the NBA. You know,
we don't just have one guy who scores all the
points or you know, we we I think we defeat
teams in different ways. We move the ball, the balls playbly,
got a lot of different guys making shots, making plays.
And we've preached our depth all, you know, for the
last couple of years, and you know it's paying off now.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So uh yeah, I I I think they're trying to
do something a different way, and I think they're accomplishing
that task. Here's Halburton talking about the Pacers being in
the conference finals for a second straight year.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
We're not done.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
We still got you know, ways to go. But it's
a special feeling, man. And you know, watching the lottery
last night, I remember being at the representative at the
lottery a couple of years ago and uh not wanting moon,
you know, to go back. So it's a special, man.
This group is special.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, it is. It is. It's incredibly special, unbelievably special
to see this and to see a team that we
think of the NBA as two stars or three stars
on every team in order to accomplish the task. And
here there's not. And they have Ritt Carlisle, who's a
(24:32):
widely regarded as an amazing offensive coach. Go back to
his days obviously in Dallas, and what he's put together
is pretty special. But he says the job is not done.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Look, we're talking about eight more wins for an NBA championship.
You know, the league is is wide open this year.
I mean there are a lot of there are a
lot of great teams, but it's it's wide open and
we've just got to keep believe in.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Hmm. Yeah, there's still eight games. That's a long eight
games away. Now, they're very likely to run the benefit
of playing the Knicks, not the Celtics. And even though
the Knicks are healthy and the Celtics are not, and
the Knicks, it's going to be a snake pit to
go into New York. There's a lot of history there
(25:23):
with Indiana and the Knicks. Again, I think it's a
bloodbath of a series. The point is you're not going
against the defending champions and the best team in the
Celtics gives you a better chance of competing and winning
no matter how hot the Knicks are, no matter how
well the Knicks are playing, and you're going against the
coach that traditionally wants to grind it out players players
(25:45):
shortened his bench, play them longer minutes against a team
that wants to play more guys fewer minutes and win
with their depth. And it's gonna be a fascinating series
again if they match up with the Knicks. But I think,
just more than anything, it's the idea of, hey, you
(26:05):
when you're not the Lakers, when you're not the Celtics,
when you're not one of those marquee franchises or somebody
that has drafted a Victor Webbin Yamo or Kobe Bryant
or Tim Duncan or you know you, Steph Curry doesn't
develop under your watch, doesn't become the greatest shooter we've
ever seen, all those things. You have to be different.
(26:31):
And what happens is my guess is teams will start
to copy that style. You know, the layman says, well,
moneyball didn't work. That's that's not true. They didn't win
a World Series with it. They've they had incredible success
(26:52):
with virtually no financial investment from a franchise and oh yeah,
by the way, while it may not have worked to
winning or getting to a World Series with the A's,
it did with the Diamondbacks. I mean it seems to
be it did with the with the Rays. It's the same.
It's the same model, and how many teams copy that
(27:13):
model and many of them had success with it, you know,
the wildcat formation, which frankly is partially old single wing,
so it's actually kind of going back to how people
used to play something back in the day. But the
like did it work long term with the Dolphins?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Know?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
But has it lasted in football? Yeah, it's still a
part of people's packages. They find a way to play
eleven on eleven football and snap the ball directly to
one of their best runners or wide receivers, and now
of a sudden that you're blocking becomes easier and tackling
becomes harder. But it started with a high school coach
(27:57):
who is an offensive coordinator at at Arkansas. Then he
later obviously Gus Malsam became a head coach still is now.
But the point is that he brought something that people
used to do and then did it differently in college
football than anybody else. And somebody picked up on in
the NFL and started using it and it spread. That's
what this is. So I think there's something subtle and different,
(28:23):
and it's a great lesson for so many of us,
even people like me who do a radio show forget
about my basketball team. Can you do it a little
bit differently than somebody else? And it won't always be
it won't always work, it won't always be well regarded.
But if you try and do the same thing the
same way with lesser resources than somebody else, what do
(28:48):
you think you know what's going to happen. You're forever
going to be behind the same product that has better resources.
That's just that's just how it works. Again, maybe I'm
taking this to mean too much. Maybe I'm taking because
usually again, like what Calhurt has always done, he uses
business metaphors for metaphors in sports, for to metaphor for sports. Sure,
(29:12):
I'm using one in sports to metaphor for business or
for life. If you want the same outcome, try the
same thing. The Pacers have tried it different and they're
getting better results than traditionally you would get.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
This is the best of the Done Dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
What up with you, Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Uh,
we're broadcasting live on a Today's Tuesday, Today's Tuesday. We
have a little I don't love like predictions, but little
preview of tonight's Oklahoma City Denver game. In a moment,
do we all know what tomorrow is? Tomorrow is NBA
(29:56):
NFL schedule re lease day. And I think there are
things in which we can miss judge in life, right
Like who among us hasn't missed judged the timing of
a joke or the subject of a joke. There's something
(30:17):
interesting there with the NFL and the schedule. But before
we get to that, let me get you to Dan Byer.
He's got some breaking news first in the world of sports, Dan,
what's new? Breaking news from Fox Sports Dug.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
A report from ESPN's Don Van Notta Junior says that
Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred is removing Pete Rose,
Shoeless Joe Jackson, and others from Major League Baseball's permanent
ineligible list. That would make Rose and Jackson eligible to
be enthrined into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Good, let's have this discussion. That is the most howardly
crap I've ever heard of in my life. And obviously
some of this stems from the pressure you're getting from
the President of the United States. Pete Rose was a
horrible human being. That shouldn't keep him from being in
the Baseball Hall of Fame. What should is that people
who actually paid attention to the Dowd Report will tell
(31:21):
you that Pete Rose one has never come clean about
his gambling on baseball. Two, when he initially began gambling
on baseball, he was a player coach. And three, please
stop the insane, stupid, myopic. I love Pete rose argument
that the only bet on his team to win, because
if you only bet on your team to win, but
(31:42):
you don't bet on your team every day, what does
it tell the people you call in as a bookie
is going to happen on those other days? He violated
a one of the core laws of all sports, specifically baseball,
which is you bet on the sport, you better the sport.
(32:05):
So again, I understand you're like, well he died, now
what does it matter. It's symbolic. And again, Peter Rose
just a terrible person, terrible person, great ballplayer, okay, great ballplayer.
But this is like somebody dies who had a perfect
(32:28):
score on the SAT. They cheated on the SAT and
then they die, Like, yeah, you know what, we should
let him into Harvard after all. Like, no, it's posthumously
doesn't really mean anything. It does mean something. It does,
it does, it absolutely means something. No, p Rose, you
don't get into the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame,
(32:50):
and all the political pressure can mean whatever it wants
to mean. Baseball, have some have some balls, Just have
any he already let steroid guys in there. Okay, at
least you have enough to keep the guys. You know,
Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds out great, Martin McGuire not in great.
(33:14):
Sammy Sosa shouldn't be in great. Okay. There's other guys
that we know by Rodriguez okay, not a secret. There
are others that most people suspect, like a Mike Piazza. Okay,
you felt like there wasn't any proof. I don't know
(33:34):
what you can do except for asking any of their contemporaries.
There is, by the way, a way in which you
can prove a guy did or did not use steroids.
If you want to be in the Hall of Fame
Before every season Major League Baseball players have to take
a physical. That physical, they take blood, they take urine.
(33:55):
Why because your contract has to be insured in order
to be sued. They have to run through a series
of tests. Those tests and what they found still exist.
And for me, if you want to prove that you
are on steroids, all I got to do is say, hey, listen,
the Hall of Fame Sledge Committee can see my tests
before any season they want, and it will show that
I wasn't on steroids. They won't do it, and they'll
(34:17):
cite privacy laws. But the real reality is the only
thing they're protecting themselves from his testing positive for steroids. Anyway, Anyway,
Peet Rose does not belong in the Hall of Fame.
Does not belong in in my opinion, Yes, Dan Byer.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
Just some clarity on this ruling from Commissioner Rob Manfred.
Manfred Is ruled that any player deceased that is on
the permanently ineligible list will become eligible for Hall of
Fame consideration. The reason why I think that this point
is important I think others as well, is there are
people who are saying, well, great, now that Pete Rose
(34:58):
has passed how he can go into the Hall of Fame.
That is not what Manfred is ruled. Manfred has stated
that once the person's life is over, that that ends
the ban. So if Pete Rose were alive today, he
would still be banned from going into the Hall of
Fame and still be on the permanently ineligible list. The
(35:23):
Hall of Fame has just released a statement saying that
Major League Baseball's decision to remove deceased individuals from the
permanently Ineligible list will allow for the Hall of Fame
candidacy of such individuals to be considered. The Historical Overview
Committee will develop the ballot of eight names for the
Classic Baseball Era Committee, which evaluates candidates who made their
(35:45):
greatest impact on the game prior to nineteen eighty, to
vote when it next meets in December of twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So, now what they did was they restarted the same fight. Right,
It's give me in a different committee, a different way
of doing it. And I get it. You're like, well,
it's lifetime ban. He died. Lifetime ban should be over, Like,
just what is the point so that person doesn't get
(36:13):
a chance to experience be in the Hall of fame,
but their legacy does.
Speaker 6 (36:18):
I think this is just a guess and just to
also clarify, and then I'll quickly make my point. This
doesn't mean Pete Rose is going into the Hall of Fame.
It only means that he can be up for discussion
along with Shoeless Joe Jackson in December of twenty twenty seven.
There is the Specialty Classic Baseball Era Committee. It's how
Fred McGriff got in. But it's not every year that
(36:41):
you vote for a player from a previous era to
get in. There's a rotating schedule of it. So the
next time that this group of players is up for
possible enshrine in or induction will not be decided until
December of twenty twenty seven, which would make it the
Class of twenty twenty eight. And with that being said,
they still would have to be voted in.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Doug.
Speaker 6 (37:02):
So the thought process, if there are voters who feel
the way that you do, they do not have to
vote Pete Rose or Shoeless Joe Jackson into the Hall
of Fame. This just opens the door for their possible
induction of the possibility that they are voted in, but
the votes could also speak for themselves in putting them
in or not.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
No, I listen, I get it. You still have to
get the votes. I just this thing had been decided,
and the further we get away from it, the less
likely is that voters have read the doubt report or
have any true sense, and our sensibilities have kind of changed,
like well, you know, like what is the real big deal?
People gable all the time now they do in the
(37:43):
phone like no, no, no, this is a completely different deal
that was going on there. This is the old call
in your bookie. And the reason, by the way, that
you don't allow people to bet on sports is because
what happens is no matter. I don't believe athletes should
(38:04):
be allowed to bet on any sport. I just don't.
Because what happens is when you get behind, a guy
comes to do you and to go they well, you've
got a couple of choices, ye, right, like you give
us a figure or or or you take care of us.
You know, you don't have to lose. You just don't
have to win by so many. You don't have to
(38:25):
you don't have to win, but you just lose by
so many.
Speaker 6 (38:28):
Ah, what about the families, because that's where it feels
that this is.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Is being done. I mean, we've got it.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
You know, we have a high profile case going on
here in southern California that I think most of the
country realizes in the menendous brothers right now and what
is going on, and it seems that they have full
support from their family members in them. Maybe not the
best comparison, but you're wondering on now that these players
are deceased, does it does it do anything for the
(39:00):
families in that point if you were a descendant of
shoeless Joe Jackson, or if you are a relative of
Pete Rose, does it does it change anything for you?
Speaker 1 (39:16):
No, because you weren't in You didn't do nothing anyway. No, No, listen,
just I hear what you're saying, right, but I don't.
That's like whitewash in comparison to the Wave. Sure, Pete
(39:37):
Rose has done everything the exact wrong way you're supposed
to do it. He never admitted sort of fault. Remember
he used to hold autograph signing like right across the
street where he's supposed to. You know, he basically was
the Oj Simpson of the If I did it right,
that's that's how he would act and not even getting
(39:58):
into some of the other things about Pete Rose off
the field, which I'm not I can't hold that against him.
That has nothing to do with this, and frankly, it
has nothing to do with his unbelievable drive. Like I
even think taking out Ray FLOSSI was a chicken crap move, right,
Like you're in an All Star game and you're gonna
go and dive and take out a catcher to home plate?
Like what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (40:19):
He will?
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Are that guy? Go ahead? There? Jasete.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
In his two thousand book My Prison Without Bars, he writes,
I bet on baseball in nineteen eighty seven and nineteen
eighty eight. That was my mistake not coming clean a
lot earlier, so he admitted in that book. And remember
the criticism at the time was is that he did
it to sell books.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
I believe he actually And look, everybody is biased by
knowledge of or proximity to situation or whatever. My first
radio co host when I was at ESPN, this is
two thousand and three. I think we worked together three
(41:09):
or four years was Chuck Wilson. And we'll try and
get Chuck on. Chuck is the foremost authority on Pete Rose.
Betting in baseball, and I mean he still has I
think he still walks around with a copy of the
Dowd Report and when things would come out, he's like, yeah, no, no,
I actually read the Dowd Report, and he was betting
(41:32):
on baseball, and every piece of chum he threw out
was all some sort of It was a lot like
how many of us handle things that have gone wrong
in our life. We admit to whatever the lowest comm number.
So I would admit that I'm wrong. He did admit
that he bet on baseball, but I don't believe he
ever admitted to betting on baseball when he was a
player manager. And part of it is I don't think
(41:56):
people remembered the fact that Pete Rose was a player manager.
But he was. He was Bill Russell only in Major
League baseball. He was a player manager, which is kind
of crazy if you really want to think about it. Right, Like,
he was a it was a two year period, eighty
(42:16):
four through eighty six, So when did you admit to
betting on baseball?
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Two thousand and four? The book?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
No, but what what years did he say? Be a man?
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Eight season?
Speaker 6 (42:27):
Right?
Speaker 1 (42:27):
So he curiously omitted the fact that he was actually
and again in the Dowd Report, he was betting on
baseball the in eighty four and eighty five and eighty six,
which is when he was a player manager, so he
would have direct impact on the game, like I've never
been somebody said that Pete Rose is an idiot. He's not, okay,
(42:49):
but he thinks he's smarter than people, going like yeah, yeah, no,
I bet on baseball as a manager. It was only
for us to win, Like yeah, if you actually read
the Doubt report, he was betting on baseball when he's
a player manager, which those years do not coincide with
the years he described in the book.
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Box Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR Doug Gottlieb Show,
(00:21):
Fox Sports Radio. Yeah. So, uh, I just I can't
imagine running the Chicago Bears today. And look, I'm sure
they were giving a heads up. But seg Wick or
Sham has a new book out right. Remember he wrote
(00:42):
a book on Brady and Belichick at the End of
the Patriots outstanding writer obviously works for ESPN as well.
And this is an excerpt from a new book called
Biography of the Quarterback. Okay, so it says quarterback Caleb
Williams was so concerned about being picked by the Chicago
(01:03):
Bears in twenty twenty four he and his family weighed
circumventing the entire NFL draft, consulting with lawyers trying to
figure out a way around the league's Collective Party agreement
while considering signing with the UFL. Details from a forthcoming
book reveal Chicago is the place that quarterbacks go to die.
Carl Williams, Caleb's father, told Seth Wickersham, author of American
(01:25):
King's biography of quarterback Kleb. Williams, wandered out loud, do
I want to go there? I don't think I can
do it with Shane Waldron. Now there is some confirmation
by Shane Waldron is no longer there as their offense
cornerer offensive staff has gone. Ben Johnson's in. He's widely
seen as an offensive savann and they've surrounded him with
a talented group of wide receivers and tried to fix
(01:46):
the offensive line. But I can tell you unequivocally that
if you're critical of a place before, you've ever worked
out of place. When you're working at that place and
it gets out, the die is sort of cast and
(02:08):
like look, you can go around and around and say, hey,
it was about Shane Waldron, but the dad was like,
Chicago it's for quarterbacks go to die. Like Hm, you
could have said the same thing about Detroit. You could
have said the same thing about how many of these
teams were terrible? How many years did the Kancity Chiefs
lose in the losing the playoffs at home despite an
(02:30):
unbelievable for like, history is what it is until it's changed, right,
The Golden State Warriors were bad for forty years and
then they got Stephen Curry and Clay Thompson and they're
the best team. They went seventy three games, and then
they added Kevin Durant. They won. You know, they won
four NBA titles together. You know, Cleveland hadn't won to
get Lebron. They almost win one, he goes away, comes back,
(02:50):
they went won again, they win one. But man, that's
gotta be that's hard that it's again. And I think
Bears fans are hardcore football fans that probably like, yeah,
that's right, you know, we've had so many. But it's
(03:11):
it's when you try to circumvent the rules, when you
tried to do anything in your power to not go
to Chicago and you're you're the quarterback of the Chicago
Bears and you don't have a particularly good first year.
WHOA that is really hard to dig yourself out of.
That really hard, oh man. And it's also another case
(03:43):
of it's like the Aau dad now becoming the pro
dad is Carl Williams of former offensive coordinator or a
quarterback coach, or do he play in the NFL? Does
he know something about the inner workings. No, he's just
a dad who loves his kid. But they think they
know everything. And he says out loud to a guy
(04:08):
writing a book, Ah, Chicago is where quarterbacks go. All
this stuff you heard about him trying to pull up
Eli Manning was in fact true. And again the only
reason that Eli Manning survived that was when he's a Manning.
It's the chosen family of college of NFL football. And two,
(04:29):
you want to super Bowls and John Elway right didn't
want to be Annapolis Colt ends up being a Denver Bronco,
gets a couple of super Bowls, then wins to Super
Bowls late in his career. Otherwise like, he's just the
guy who talked ish on the Indianapolis Colts. But those
(04:50):
quotes are damning even if they're true. You sho never
anybody ever say like, yeah, I can't win there ever ever,
because of two things. One, these quotes last forever, and
then two, anything happened previously has nothing to do with
(05:11):
the current status. And anybody who thinks otherwise is an
absolute idiot, because I can prove it based upon everything
we've shown you. In sports. Chicago White Sox had won
a title in a World Series title in eighty eight years,
they won one. We saw the Red Sox win one
first time in eighty six years they won one. Tell
me anywhere where a quarterback goes to die or whatever.
If he's a good enough quarterback, he's a good enough quarterback.
(05:33):
And oh yeah, by the way, you went out and
got the absolute best offensive coordinator, head coaching candidate in
the league, everybody less than over Ben Johnson. No one
will argue with that. So if you can't do it now,
it's on you, not on Chicago. And what happens is
when things go bad, then they dog Pylon. I don't
(05:58):
want my son playing for the b the dad said
to several agents in twenty four The rookie cap is
just unconstitutional, later adding to the CBA is the worst
piece of I've ever read. It's the worst in sports history.
I need to go to the Vikings. He told his father,
Let's do it. His dad replied, but both Caleb and
(06:21):
Carl knew the trade to a division rivals was extremely unlikely. Now,
look for what's was understandable is they did nail that.
The Vikings have an outstanding head coach who's a former
quarterback and coordinator and gets it. Plus they have good
skill position talent. Plus playing indoors is easier than playing
in Soldier Field, where the turf is terrible, the wind
(06:42):
is bad, the weather is cold, all of those things.
But you're being critical of the CBA, and again there's
no historical understanding or respect to it, Like why why
was the CBA so that rookies have a controlled salary?
(07:03):
Well because Sam Bradford got fifty one million dollars before
he'd ever played a snap, And people are like, that's
insane with the hit rate of quarterbacks. So you don't
like the what the you don't like the union and
what the union agreed to for seven more years. You
(07:25):
don't like the Bears, and you want to play for
the Vikings, who are one of your biggest rivals in division.
It just keeps getting better. Stug gott Leeb Show here
on Fox Sports Radio. John Mentalcoff's our guest, a good
friend of the show, good friend of mine, and tremendous
(07:46):
NFL analyst. Part of the three and now He has
his own three and Now podcast on the Volume podcast network.
I read the Caleb Williams and Carl Williams quotes and
have my own opinion. You've been in the league as
a scout, you cover the league. Now everybody knows your podcast.
What's your reaction when you read what Seth Wickersham quoted?
(08:10):
Hey and his father's saying about the Bears?
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, why have an overall take when it comes to
athletes and family members? I really just don't care what
they say or think, because, in fairness to them, they're
so close to the sun, and we have a long
history now of seeing just egregious things get said now,
like the overall theme of the Bears are a place
(08:34):
where quarterbacks go to die, I mean, not an untrue statement.
But then when you're making comments like the rookie scale
is unconstitutional, like I'd argue it's the best thing that's
ever happened in the NFL, or the veterans, the guys
that actually play in the games and then become good
players actually get that money in the two thousands For
(08:54):
those of us that are old enough to remember, I
mean half the first round, does not it? Now their
fifty year option picked up, meaning they are a whiff,
meaning that team is not going to extend them. And
those guys back in the two thousands, especially if you
were drafted high, we're getting a ton of money. A
guy like Kayleb Williams would have got I don't know,
one hundred and twenty million dollars guaranteed or something, and
(09:17):
with like twenty four twenty twenty four economics, we would
have been like, that's a scam. I do appreciate, you know,
Ryan Poles his comment on like we're drafting you deal
with it essentially, But it's hard to read that article, like,
think about this. We got we got one guy who
dominated last year as a rookie, Jaden Daniels, and his
(09:37):
mom's involved making sure women don't ruin his life. And
then you've got this guy who thinks he's like Rosenhaus
meets Goodell. I mean, I just think it's got to
be exhausting. But listen, I've heard of stories going back
to Oklahoma, like this guy's father is heavily involved, right,
I mean, I mean plays the role of like rosenhow
(10:00):
meets his financial manager, meets his dad, And that's just
there's just a lot going on there. Now when it
comes to Caleb, you know, I give him a little
bit of a pass. I mean I don't think he
played very well, but I mean Iba Flus is never
going to be a head coach in the league again.
I mean the Waldrone comments of not telling him what
to watch. So, uh, there's just a lot going on there.
(10:23):
I think the guy reading this smiling the most is
Adam Peters. Why because you got Jake Daniels. I mean,
these are the type articles like.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
No, I I that that that's kind of I'm sorry,
that's kind of My thing is just like this, this
does a lot of harm, right, Like you you have
to be so good to overcome this that you'd rather
play for the Vikings and play for the Bears.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
I also think like this is the this is the
big leagues, And yeah, I don't think like how many
NFL players are sitting there reading ESPN dot Com. What
the headline is going to get aggregated, that's going to
go around the league people like oh the wing eland
who cares what the gms and the coach. I think
the players are going to be like, bro, come down.
You know that's where it hurts you. You lose respect
of like bro make them plays. And that gets back
(11:16):
to his comments about the unconstitutional rookie Wade scale. It's like,
you know, give me a break.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Crazy. Well, that's also no history or understanding of how
the rookie quarterback contracts and how the rookie quarterback rookie
contracts were just weighing everybody down. They were too big
considering the misrate on them. Nobody liked him, and you
had holdouts. Now you don't have any holdouts really right.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I also think if you go back to Ryan Poles
in his situation, his job, what what everyone says on
the outside fans, the college football height machine me whoever
melchite or that is completely irrelevant. Your only job is
to get the best player. And I remember, like back
(12:07):
in the day, like Pete Carroll, there would be guys
like he just decommitted to USC and it turned out
Pete Carroll's like, yeah, we don't want you here even
though you're the number two overall. Group saved into this forever.
You know, in football sometimes and I just think in
sports in general, obviously, if there's an Andrew Locke and
Cooper Flag, it's a no brainer. But there were some
people being like I know that Jadan Daniels, you know,
(12:28):
and it was like the Bears, they didn't even bring
it anyone else. And then remember on the flip side,
Adam Peters, because he had the second pick, brought in
them all and he took him the top golf so
he got crushed. That's his job is to figure out,
we're taking a quarterback. We like Jaden the most, but
we better like to steal them all out. The Bears
didn't do any of that. They were just it's almost
(12:49):
like they bought into the hype. Obviously he has a
lot of technysical abilities and he would have been in
the you know, in every discussion. But like they it's
not like they felt like they even came in this
the land of the other dudes. Even if you just
cut it off at like Jaden and Drake may like
we're seriously gonna evaluate the top three talents in the strap,
(13:09):
they're just like, we're all in on this guy. And
they were dealing with this stuff clearly, you know, off
the field pretty early in the process.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Stug out lip show here on Fox Sports Radio. Okay,
let's get to some other stuff. I don't make a
bunch I don't care that much about schedule stuff, but
there's a lot of people that are like hole Jets
Steelers huh early in the season. That means, Hey, that
means that the league knows that Aaron Rodgers is gonna
(13:42):
be a Pittsburgh Steeler. On the other hand, it's like
a three twenty five game, so it's buried and all
of that stuff was pre selected right like those games were.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
We knew.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
It's just a question of when they fit in schedule wise.
Can you make any read on Aaron Rodgers based upon
the Steelers schedule?
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, my guess would be the NFL's not really paying
that much attention, Like I think they're not, like they
moved on after last year. He plays great, He's the
least of their worries. I mean, I think the NFL
has shown the Steph Curry lebron of the league is
now the Chiefs.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
They have entered the chat with the Cowboys, who are
just automatic. But you can't really depend on the Cowboys
being good. So Aaron Rodgers and the Packers, you know,
for fifteen years and even last year with the Jets,
they got that treatment. I just don't think if he
plays great If he doesn't, no one loses any sleep.
I actually think the Chiefs, the Bills, the Ravens. At
the end of the day, I think that Aaron Rodgers,
(14:38):
in a weird way, is a little bit of an afterthought.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Okay, let me ask you about the Cincinnati Bengals. I look,
I don't know enough about the individual negotiations of the Bengals,
but when a guy says, wow, it's gotten personal now
I'm breaking it off, like, Okay, you're not going to
sit out, they can franchise tag you. What do you
(15:06):
think goes on there with interesting?
Speaker 2 (15:09):
I do think this situation is a little complicated. I mean,
if you turn on every former players like you gotta
play them, it's like, well, what would what's just best
GM in the league? Howie Roseman. This was not a
player they drafted. This is a player that they signed after,
you know, to a second contract coming from another team,
who then became a high level player who's under contract
(15:30):
and who wants an enormous extension. Like let's use two examples.
Max Crosby, who's drafted into that organization. The owner loves him,
He's the best player in the team by a mile.
They're not paying anybody else and Miles Garrett, who's I
mean besides like Jim Brown gonna go down to one
of the most talented players in the history of the franchise.
That's the type of contract he's not. He's playing like,
(15:51):
Y'll just give me like two years forty million dollars
like the going rate for high end pass rushers this
and he's an older player, Like, I just think it's
a complicated situation. And they also it'd be one thing.
It's like, well the Bengals, you know, they're kind of
going cheap that they're paying their quarterback huge money and
they paid two wide receivers, like they've kind of proven
the guys they've drafted, they've done all in and they're
just a little leery on this. And I think it's easy.
(16:14):
Like you said, I don't know what the tax exchange
was between him and the coach. The situation. You know,
she didn't help Mike Brown's daughter or some of her
comments didn't help the situation. There's a reason like forever,
you know, say what you want about Belichick recal, but
forever he didn't say anything because it's like whenever you
put this, it just makes it worse. And I think
(16:35):
it's easy to pick on the Bengals, but I do understand,
like you just think we're gonna give you a hundred
million dollars guaranteed and we're gonna have you like thirty
four years old like that that, I do understand the
risks there.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Doug Gottlieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio. John Middlecoff
is our guest.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
You know what might be a solution though, just thinking
about it, what is like, hey, how about we make
you hold this year? You know, we give you you
know ten we gets you in the high twenties or whatever,
and then at the end of the year we allow
you to like hit the open market or whatever, and
that gives us flexibility. That gives you flexibility like do
something like that. You could probably like short term play
(17:16):
it because it doesn't feel like the Bengals feel comfortable
giving him a long term contract. And yeah, yeah, but
I don't.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
But I don't think though, why would you let him
on the market when you don't have.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
To You could franchise and trade him.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
You're saying, I guess, yeah, I mean again, I maybe
if you do a two year deal, right you know
where you you you load up. I mean, I just
think it's interesting. The it's like again, older player, Yeah,
we'll give you, we'll give you money. We're just not
going to give you a three four years of money.
That that's that that would be that would be crazy
(17:47):
to crazy to do. I don't think you and I
have spoken since the Pickens trade, since the Pickens trade.
And then he goes kind of scorched earth on Pittsburgh
as he leaves. I felt like that was the classic
trade where Pittsburgh chose culture and Dallas chose talent. Is
(18:11):
that a fair depiction of what happened? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (18:14):
And I also think you got a factor in, you know, Jerry,
he's trying to strike oil or gold for you know,
with one swing of a hammer and get it on
the cheap. And he did this with Trey Lance when
he failed with Kyle Shanahan. They're trading for a wide
receiver from a franchise who has literally just pushed out.
I don't know you count on you know, five plus
(18:36):
guys who were big tom talons. Now, Antonio Brown was
an elite player, but some of these other guys from
Claypool to Bryant and Deontay Johnson to this guy. It's
like if Tomlins can't deal with this guy at that position,
it's like with Billy Bean for like decade, you know,
like two decades. Every couple of years, he'd have to
trade all of his guys. He wouldn't always ask for
(18:57):
the number one prospect. He'd ask you for like your
fits pro You should probably keep that guy because he's like,
that guy's gonna be a future star. And it's like
the Cowboys or excuse me, the Steelers want to trade
a wide receiver. I would be pretty hesitating. I just
think Jerry he gets a lot of credit for being
this wheeler and dealer. Like the stats on the actual
cash spent he spends. He buys a couple guys spend
(19:20):
a lot of money, you know, the Daks and Ceedee Lambs.
Obviously field play Michael Parsons, but for the most part,
he's not spending as much cash a lot of the
other owners because he tries to get these deals and
put that on a first year head coach that, let's
face it, most people didn't invision be an aad coach
who's also the offensive coordinator slash offensive guy. He feels
like a lot of pressure on Brian Schottenheimer and Dak Prescott.
(19:42):
You know to get George Nickins right.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Surely does middle cooffeere the best man. Love catching up
with you. Let's do so more often. Thanks for being
our guest on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Anybody. This is the best of the Doug gott Lead
Show on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Booming Up America, Doug Gottlieb Show Fick Sports Radio. I
hope you're having a great day. That gott Leap show
broadcasts every day from three to five Eastern noon to
two Pacific. You can figure out in between. And of
course we had the one hour podcast only version of
the show, which drops live right after this year radio
(20:21):
show concludes. Welcome in. The Indiana Pacers are the first
team to qualify for the excuse second team right to
qualify for the conference finals. You got Minnesota, Minnesota, Wait
to Minnesota qualify yet? No wait, they got one more
game to wins. My bad. Okay, so it feels like
it's over because Steph Curry's not playing and because of
(20:42):
how it felt like Jimmy Butler kind of quit. But
the Indiana Pacers move on. The Oklahoma City Thunder retake
a commanding three games to to lead over the Denver Nuggets.
That one moves to Denver for Game six, the nick
will try and eliminate the Celtics. Tonight, they're underdogs in Boston,
(21:03):
up three games to one. Jason Tatum, we had no
word on the extent of the injury, and then he
had Achilles ten in surgery, so we're like, oh, guess
he towards Achilles ten. And and then of course you
got Minnesota and Golden State, which again nuts Tonight feels
like a formality, but it is not until it actually
strikes Zeros. I think the Pacers story is an interesting one, right,
(21:28):
Like I'll just take it to my life for an example.
And one of my friends in coaching, a mentor of mine,
is Chris Beard, who's the head coach at Ole miss
And he's always encouraged me to take a head coaching job.
And his big thing was like, look, the line you
(21:50):
need to use is for any of these programs is
if you want the same result, try it the same way.
If you want a different result, you got to try
it a little differently. And I was talking to another
body of mine who was applying for was a finalist
for a head coaching job, and he's like, hey, my
I was like, well, what would you do to differentiate yourself.
It's like we'd play crazy fast and shoot a ton
of threes, and we feel like at this level, with
(22:14):
our lack of money, we got to be different than
everybody else. We got to play differently. And I think
the pacers, I think they do that they play differently,
that they don't have a superstar talent. They don't. I
think Tyres Haliburton is a tremendous player, and I think
(22:35):
the overrated mantra that follows him, because that's what he
was voted by by NBA players is just a one
they don't respect him, and two, most importantly, I think
they just think he runs his mouth too much, considering
he hasn't done enough in the playoffs. And that's again
that's not me saying it. It's my guess of why
(22:57):
he was voted as such because I didn't know he
was super high rated. I didn't know that actually happened.
So it just feels like that's their way of saying,
I don't like that guy. That's really it. I don't
like that guy, So this is what I'm gonna do.
But he's been amazing and they just smoked the Cleveland Cavaliers.
Here's hal Burton talking about their team style.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
We're different than every other team in the NBA. You know,
we don't just have one guy who scores all the
points or you know, we we I think we defeat
teams in different ways. We move the ball, the balls playbly,
got a lot of different guys making shots, making plays.
And we've preached our depth all, you know, for the
last couple of years, and you know it's paying off now.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
So uh yeah, I I I think they're trying to
do something a different way, and I think they're accomplishing
that task. Here's Halburton talking about the Pacers being in
the conference finals for a second straight year.
Speaker 4 (23:52):
We're not done.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
We still got you know, ways to go. But it's
a special feeling, man. And you know, watching the lottery
last night, I remember being at the representative at the
lottery a couple of years ago and uh not wanting moon,
you know, to go back. So it's a special, man.
This group is special.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, it is. It is. It's incredibly special, unbelievably special
to see this and to see a team that we
think of the NBA as two stars or three stars
on every team in order to accomplish the task. And
here there's not. And they have Ritt Carlisle, who's a
(24:32):
widely regarded as an amazing offensive coach. Go back to
his days obviously in Dallas, and what he's put together
is pretty special. But he says the job is not done.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Look, we're talking about eight more wins for an NBA championship.
You know, the league is is wide open this year.
I mean there are a lot of there are a
lot of great teams, but it's it's wide open and
we've just got to keep believe in.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Hmm. Yeah, there's still eight games. That's a long eight
games away. Now, they're very likely to run the benefit
of playing the Knicks, not the Celtics. And even though
the Knicks are healthy and the Celtics are not, and
the Knicks, it's going to be a snake pit to
go into New York. There's a lot of history there
(25:23):
with Indiana and the Knicks. Again, I think it's a
bloodbath of a series. The point is you're not going
against the defending champions and the best team in the
Celtics gives you a better chance of competing and winning
no matter how hot the Knicks are, no matter how
well the Knicks are playing, and you're going against the
coach that traditionally wants to grind it out players players
(25:45):
shortened his bench, play them longer minutes against a team
that wants to play more guys fewer minutes and win
with their depth. And it's gonna be a fascinating series
again if they match up with the Knicks. But I think,
just more than anything, it's the idea of, hey, you
(26:05):
when you're not the Lakers, when you're not the Celtics,
when you're not one of those marquee franchises or somebody
that has drafted a Victor Webbin Yamo or Kobe Bryant
or Tim Duncan or you know you, Steph Curry doesn't
develop under your watch, doesn't become the greatest shooter we've
ever seen, all those things. You have to be different.
(26:31):
And what happens is my guess is teams will start
to copy that style. You know, the layman says, well,
moneyball didn't work. That's that's not true. They didn't win
a World Series with it. They've they had incredible success
(26:52):
with virtually no financial investment from a franchise and oh yeah,
by the way, while it may not have worked to
winning or getting to a World Series with the A's,
it did with the Diamondbacks. I mean it seems to
be it did with the with the Rays. It's the same.
It's the same model, and how many teams copy that
(27:13):
model and many of them had success with it, you know,
the wildcat formation, which frankly is partially old single wing,
so it's actually kind of going back to how people
used to play something back in the day. But the
like did it work long term with the Dolphins?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Know?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
But has it lasted in football? Yeah, it's still a
part of people's packages. They find a way to play
eleven on eleven football and snap the ball directly to
one of their best runners or wide receivers, and now
of a sudden that you're blocking becomes easier and tackling
becomes harder. But it started with a high school coach
(27:57):
who is an offensive coordinator at at Arkansas. Then he
later obviously Gus Malsam became a head coach still is now.
But the point is that he brought something that people
used to do and then did it differently in college
football than anybody else. And somebody picked up on in
the NFL and started using it and it spread. That's
what this is. So I think there's something subtle and different,
(28:23):
and it's a great lesson for so many of us,
even people like me who do a radio show forget
about my basketball team. Can you do it a little
bit differently than somebody else? And it won't always be
it won't always work, it won't always be well regarded.
But if you try and do the same thing the
same way with lesser resources than somebody else, what do
(28:48):
you think you know what's going to happen. You're forever
going to be behind the same product that has better resources.
That's just that's just how it works. Again, maybe I'm
taking this to mean too much. Maybe I'm taking because
usually again, like what Calhurt has always done, he uses
business metaphors for metaphors in sports, for to metaphor for sports. Sure,
(29:12):
I'm using one in sports to metaphor for business or
for life. If you want the same outcome, try the
same thing. The Pacers have tried it different and they're
getting better results than traditionally you would get.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
This is the best of the Done Dot Leap Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
What up with you, Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio. Uh,
we're broadcasting live on a Today's Tuesday, Today's Tuesday. We
have a little I don't love like predictions, but little
preview of tonight's Oklahoma City Denver game. In a moment,
do we all know what tomorrow is? Tomorrow is NBA
(29:56):
NFL schedule re lease day. And I think there are
things in which we can miss judge in life, right
Like who among us hasn't missed judged the timing of
a joke or the subject of a joke. There's something
(30:17):
interesting there with the NFL and the schedule. But before
we get to that, let me get you to Dan Byer.
He's got some breaking news first in the world of sports, Dan,
what's new? Breaking news from Fox Sports Dug.
Speaker 6 (30:33):
A report from ESPN's Don Van Notta Junior says that
Major League Baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred is removing Pete Rose,
Shoeless Joe Jackson, and others from Major League Baseball's permanent
ineligible list. That would make Rose and Jackson eligible to
be enthrined into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Good, let's have this discussion. That is the most howardly
crap I've ever heard of in my life. And obviously
some of this stems from the pressure you're getting from
the President of the United States. Pete Rose was a
horrible human being. That shouldn't keep him from being in
the Baseball Hall of Fame. What should is that people
who actually paid attention to the Dowd Report will tell
(31:21):
you that Pete Rose one has never come clean about
his gambling on baseball. Two, when he initially began gambling
on baseball, he was a player coach. And three, please
stop the insane, stupid, myopic. I love Pete rose argument
that the only bet on his team to win, because
if you only bet on your team to win, but
(31:42):
you don't bet on your team every day, what does
it tell the people you call in as a bookie
is going to happen on those other days? He violated
a one of the core laws of all sports, specifically baseball,
which is you bet on the sport, you better the sport.
(32:05):
So again, I understand you're like, well he died, now
what does it matter. It's symbolic. And again, Peter Rose
just a terrible person, terrible person, great ballplayer, okay, great ballplayer.
But this is like somebody dies who had a perfect
(32:28):
score on the SAT. They cheated on the SAT and
then they die, Like, yeah, you know what, we should
let him into Harvard after all. Like, no, it's posthumously
doesn't really mean anything. It does mean something. It does,
it does, it absolutely means something. No, p Rose, you
don't get into the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame,
(32:50):
and all the political pressure can mean whatever it wants
to mean. Baseball, have some have some balls, Just have
any he already let steroid guys in there. Okay, at
least you have enough to keep the guys. You know,
Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds out great, Martin McGuire not in great.
(33:14):
Sammy Sosa shouldn't be in great. Okay. There's other guys
that we know by Rodriguez okay, not a secret. There
are others that most people suspect, like a Mike Piazza. Okay,
you felt like there wasn't any proof. I don't know
(33:34):
what you can do except for asking any of their contemporaries.
There is, by the way, a way in which you
can prove a guy did or did not use steroids.
If you want to be in the Hall of Fame
Before every season Major League Baseball players have to take
a physical. That physical, they take blood, they take urine.
(33:55):
Why because your contract has to be insured in order
to be sued. They have to run through a series
of tests. Those tests and what they found still exist.
And for me, if you want to prove that you
are on steroids, all I got to do is say, hey, listen,
the Hall of Fame Sledge Committee can see my tests
before any season they want, and it will show that
I wasn't on steroids. They won't do it, and they'll
(34:17):
cite privacy laws. But the real reality is the only
thing they're protecting themselves from his testing positive for steroids. Anyway, Anyway,
Peet Rose does not belong in the Hall of Fame.
Does not belong in in my opinion, Yes, Dan Byer.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
Just some clarity on this ruling from Commissioner Rob Manfred.
Manfred Is ruled that any player deceased that is on
the permanently ineligible list will become eligible for Hall of
Fame consideration. The reason why I think that this point
is important I think others as well, is there are
people who are saying, well, great, now that Pete Rose
(34:58):
has passed how he can go into the Hall of Fame.
That is not what Manfred is ruled. Manfred has stated
that once the person's life is over, that that ends
the ban. So if Pete Rose were alive today, he
would still be banned from going into the Hall of
Fame and still be on the permanently ineligible list. The
(35:23):
Hall of Fame has just released a statement saying that
Major League Baseball's decision to remove deceased individuals from the
permanently Ineligible list will allow for the Hall of Fame
candidacy of such individuals to be considered. The Historical Overview
Committee will develop the ballot of eight names for the
Classic Baseball Era Committee, which evaluates candidates who made their
(35:45):
greatest impact on the game prior to nineteen eighty, to
vote when it next meets in December of twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So, now what they did was they restarted the same fight. Right,
It's give me in a different committee, a different way
of doing it. And I get it. You're like, well,
it's lifetime ban. He died. Lifetime ban should be over, Like,
just what is the point so that person doesn't get
(36:13):
a chance to experience be in the Hall of fame,
but their legacy does.
Speaker 6 (36:18):
I think this is just a guess and just to
also clarify, and then I'll quickly make my point. This
doesn't mean Pete Rose is going into the Hall of Fame.
It only means that he can be up for discussion
along with Shoeless Joe Jackson in December of twenty twenty seven.
There is the Specialty Classic Baseball Era Committee. It's how
Fred McGriff got in. But it's not every year that
(36:41):
you vote for a player from a previous era to
get in. There's a rotating schedule of it. So the
next time that this group of players is up for
possible enshrine in or induction will not be decided until
December of twenty twenty seven, which would make it the
Class of twenty twenty eight. And with that being said,
they still would have to be voted in.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Doug.
Speaker 6 (37:02):
So the thought process, if there are voters who feel
the way that you do, they do not have to
vote Pete Rose or Shoeless Joe Jackson into the Hall
of Fame. This just opens the door for their possible
induction of the possibility that they are voted in, but
the votes could also speak for themselves in putting them
in or not.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
No, I listen, I get it. You still have to
get the votes. I just this thing had been decided,
and the further we get away from it, the less
likely is that voters have read the doubt report or
have any true sense, and our sensibilities have kind of changed,
like well, you know, like what is the real big deal?
People gable all the time now they do in the
(37:43):
phone like no, no, no, this is a completely different deal
that was going on there. This is the old call
in your bookie. And the reason, by the way, that
you don't allow people to bet on sports is because
what happens is no matter. I don't believe athletes should
(38:04):
be allowed to bet on any sport. I just don't.
Because what happens is when you get behind, a guy
comes to do you and to go they well, you've
got a couple of choices, ye, right, like you give
us a figure or or or you take care of us.
You know, you don't have to lose. You just don't
have to win by so many. You don't have to
(38:25):
you don't have to win, but you just lose by
so many.
Speaker 6 (38:28):
Ah, what about the families, because that's where it feels
that this is.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Is being done. I mean, we've got it.
Speaker 6 (38:38):
You know, we have a high profile case going on
here in southern California that I think most of the
country realizes in the menendous brothers right now and what
is going on, and it seems that they have full
support from their family members in them. Maybe not the
best comparison, but you're wondering on now that these players
are deceased, does it does it do anything for the
(39:00):
families in that point if you were a descendant of
shoeless Joe Jackson, or if you are a relative of
Pete Rose, does it does it change anything for you?
Speaker 1 (39:16):
No, because you weren't in You didn't do nothing anyway. No, No, listen,
just I hear what you're saying, right, but I don't.
That's like whitewash in comparison to the Wave. Sure, Pete
(39:37):
Rose has done everything the exact wrong way you're supposed
to do it. He never admitted sort of fault. Remember
he used to hold autograph signing like right across the
street where he's supposed to. You know, he basically was
the Oj Simpson of the If I did it right,
that's that's how he would act and not even getting
(39:58):
into some of the other things about Pete Rose off
the field, which I'm not I can't hold that against him.
That has nothing to do with this, and frankly, it
has nothing to do with his unbelievable drive. Like I
even think taking out Ray FLOSSI was a chicken crap move, right,
Like you're in an All Star game and you're gonna
go and dive and take out a catcher to home plate?
Like what are you doing?
Speaker 2 (40:19):
He will?
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Are that guy? Go ahead? There? Jasete.
Speaker 4 (40:24):
In his two thousand book My Prison Without Bars, he writes,
I bet on baseball in nineteen eighty seven and nineteen
eighty eight. That was my mistake not coming clean a
lot earlier, so he admitted in that book. And remember
the criticism at the time was is that he did
it to sell books.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
I believe he actually And look, everybody is biased by
knowledge of or proximity to situation or whatever. My first
radio co host when I was at ESPN, this is
two thousand and three. I think we worked together three
(41:09):
or four years was Chuck Wilson. And we'll try and
get Chuck on. Chuck is the foremost authority on Pete Rose.
Betting in baseball, and I mean he still has I
think he still walks around with a copy of the
Dowd Report and when things would come out, he's like, yeah, no, no,
I actually read the Dowd Report, and he was betting
(41:32):
on baseball, and every piece of chum he threw out
was all some sort of It was a lot like
how many of us handle things that have gone wrong
in our life. We admit to whatever the lowest comm number.
So I would admit that I'm wrong. He did admit
that he bet on baseball, but I don't believe he
ever admitted to betting on baseball when he was a
player manager. And part of it is I don't think
(41:56):
people remembered the fact that Pete Rose was a player manager.
But he was. He was Bill Russell only in Major
League baseball. He was a player manager, which is kind
of crazy if you really want to think about it. Right, Like,
he was a it was a two year period, eighty
(42:16):
four through eighty six, So when did you admit to
betting on baseball?
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Two thousand and four? The book?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
No, but what what years did he say? Be a man?
Speaker 4 (42:26):
Eight season?
Speaker 6 (42:27):
Right?
Speaker 1 (42:27):
So he curiously omitted the fact that he was actually
and again in the Dowd Report, he was betting on
baseball the in eighty four and eighty five and eighty six,
which is when he was a player manager, so he
would have direct impact on the game, like I've never
been somebody said that Pete Rose is an idiot. He's not, okay,
(42:49):
but he thinks he's smarter than people, going like yeah, yeah, no,
I bet on baseball as a manager. It was only
for us to win, Like yeah, if you actually read
the Doubt report, he was betting on baseball when he's
a player manager, which those years do not coincide with
the years he described in the book.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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