May 31, 2025 • 40 mins
On this edition of The Best Of The Week of the Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug and Dan Beyer discuss why this year's NBA champion might be the worst champion the league has delivered in decades.
In this installment of The Midway, Doug and the crew discuss the WNBA's issue as it pertains to allegations made against their fans.
Doug breaks down why NCAA Tournament expansion is inevitable.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
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Doug Godlieb Show. Bye Sports Radio. M mm hmmmmmmmm, what up?
(00:31):
Welcome in Hope. You're doing great the Doug Gottlieb Show. Hey,
guess who's in the studio with the boys in Los Angeles.
What's up, guys, how are we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Dude named Doug.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, some dude named Doug.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
That's me.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I'm just some dude named Doug.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
He dude name Doug.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Good to see Dan Byer. I heard you guys filling
in yesterday. Guys did a great job with months.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thank you, Welcome back, Doug.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hey got it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's one of those things where this is why I
don't actually like taking days off, because now I'm like,
should I talk about that? You guys talked about it yesterday,
so typebout this talked about yesterday? So let's let's let's
have this conversation. Dan, I was driving yesterday. I want
to say, I want to know if I was driving
or I was listing on my phone, I can't remember,
(01:22):
but you were talking about this is I don't know
if you said, I don't want to know who the
word bad, but this is probably the worst We'll have
the worst champion that we've ever we've had in Yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Think whoever wins the NBA title will probably be the
worst champion we've seen in the last forty years.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, contextualize it, well, why you would say worst?
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Well, I just I look at the teams that we've
had win titles over the generations that I've watched basketball,
the decades that I've watched there's I don't think that
you could take the and I took the Thunder for
this example, because I feel that they were the best
of the four teams. Remaining sure that they weren't better
than the Lakers teams or the Celtics teams of the eighties.
(02:04):
They weren't better than the Bulls run in the nineteen nineties.
They weren't better than Shacks and Kobe's Lakers in the
early oughts, and then Kobe's back to back championship. I
don't think they were better than the eight Celtics. Then
you go to the Warriors and the Calves and Lebron.
I just don't think that this team is or any
of the four teams that win would match up to
(02:27):
those teams. And I think it's because of a spot
that we're at in the NBA at this point.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, I think it's a really good discussion and I
want to have it. Okay, so a couple things. You're
right as of right now. There's a chance you could
be wrong. Let me kind of expound upon that. The
first part is you're already wrong from and this is
(02:57):
where your last sentence is right, which is the place
we are in in the NBA. Because reality is, if
Oklahoma City Thunder and they took a commanding three games
one lead with a win over the Minnesota Timberwolves last night,
if the Oklahoma City Thunder do win an NBA championship,
we got to realize that as much as we think
(03:18):
that they're not great, you know, they're not one of
the elite all time teams. They will have had the
best record in the regular season and they're very likely
to have, despite the fact Denver took them seven the
best record in the postseason as well, Right, Like it's
the first series. Wasn't heavy lifting for them? This one
(03:40):
may only go five games as well, five, five, seven.
We'll see what the finals go. There's a world there
where they have You know, what was the thunder play?
I mean the Warriors won seventy seventy one games the
year they won the title with Kevin Durant. How many
games they win the year? I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, I'll look it up quick.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It's like a high sixties whatever, Right, and then I
think they lost what one playoff game?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, it was Game four to the Cavs.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Right, it was like sixteen and one in the playoffs. Right,
this team has lost, Uh what do we got?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Four?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Five, five games so far in the playoffs. So obviously
you're not going to be an all time great postseason team.
But if I said, hey, you're the best record in
the regular season by four games in the better division
which is the or better conference which is the West,
and you have a pretty clean record in the playoffs,
why are they not a great team? And the reason
they're not a great team is you don't have any
(04:34):
historically great players, right, that's the only yes. Okay, So
but the issue is, well, what if Shay is Kobe
I will now he'll never be He'll never have the
persona of Kobe Bryant. His dad didn't play in the NBA.
(04:56):
He wasn't, you know, drafted straight out of high school.
He actual went to Kentucky, which should have, but he
because he got traded after the Clippers year whatever. He
switched teams and it's it's been a growth process. But
he's twenty six years old. It's not like he's thirty
to two, thirty three, thirty four and he's still chasing it.
And he's James Harden, always been good, never come through.
Like he's risen through the ranks to being the league MVP.
(05:18):
And there's a world where they win one and maybe
they went another one, maybe they went another one, and
then we look back, we're like, that was an incredible team.
Because right now we view Shay as as foul merchant.
He's the MVP. But he's the MVP because it's kind
of a dark time in the NBA. You have these
aging out superstars and we look at Jalen Williams and
(05:39):
We're like, Jayla Williams is such a surprise, it's a
incredible surprise. He was lightly recruited. He's out of Arizona.
He played in a small AAU team. Then he went
and played for Herbert Syndic at Santa Clara and last
night he had a great game. And we view Jala
Williams as nice player, number two guy. But again, Jayala Williams,
how old is he? He's like twenty four years old.
(06:02):
So our view of it now in the moment is
completely accurate. But there's a world where these guys get
the thirty and they have multiple titles. Shay gets the thirty,
He's got multiple titles, multiple MVPs, and we're like, wow,
that was an incredible team. Incredible team.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I don't dispute any of that.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
And in fact, Doug, I could see a parallel because
one of the passions in my life is golf, and
you know my connections to Aaron Hills, who were just
recently there, and the US Women's Open is there this week.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I'll be there on Sunday. Yes, yeah, I'll be there
on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You need, you need I we'll talk about it.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
No, I've got I'm doing my Sunday shows. Yeah, well,
I don't know, maybe in the point being, I'll be
there on Sunday. But the twenty seventeen US Open was
thought to be a dud. Tiger didn't play, Phil Mickelson
withdrew to attend a graduation and Rory didn't make the cut.
But it wasn't the typical US Open because the rough
(07:03):
wasn't eight feet high that people like, and brooks kept
Go won at sixteen under par. At that point, brooks
Kepka hadn't won a major, so it was brooks Keptkuz first.
So now we look back at this leaderboard that had
brooks kept Go won, Hideki Matsuyama tied for second, Tommy
Fleetwood fourth, Xander Shaffley fifth, Ricky Fowler ended up in
(07:24):
a tie for fifth. Justin Thomas was in a tie
for ninth at eight under and he shot sixty three
on Saturday of the US Open. That's a star studded
leaderboard and the low amateur was Scotti Scheffler. So I
get it, and I defended that US Open. But people
said that's awful. That's awful. Now people would look back
(07:45):
eight years later and say, wow, if you had all
of those names competing for a major championship, that would
be pretty entertaining. Sure, Brooks kept Gez you know, won
five majors now and that was his first I get
all that, But what I think hurts Lahoma City Doug
is the run of champions that we've seen. And they
may end up winning two or three or four whatever
(08:07):
after this, but I think people wanted to annoint Denver
as this juggernaut and even in this playoff series, people
I can't count out Yo Kitchen, can't count out the Nuggets.
People wanted to pick Boston to win it all, take
out Jason Tatum's injury, but still they were losing games
to the Knicks.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Even my Bucks.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Look at all the Bucks have failed in their playoff
appearances since winning the title. I think that goes against
what has now been a run of champions that you
can question and put in that group of not great
NBA champions. And now you're talking about teams that don't
have Yo Kitchen, don't have Yiannis. Maybe SGA is that guy,
he's now the MVP, and they could go on a run.
(08:45):
But as we sit right now, I just don't think
that history is on the side of the Oklahoma City thunder.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Here's the part that Jay stew and I talked about,
because if Jason's honest, right, which he's he's in search
of the opposite of BS, right, that's that he wants
that on his tombstone. The games have been way better
to watch than the games were. Frankly in many of
(09:11):
those times when we had the super teams or superstars
agrees right, really compelling games like down twenty twice, the
Knicks came back beat the Celtics, then up twenty they
at home, they lose to the Indiana Pacers, then down
twenty they come back and beat the Pace Like all
of these plus just the action, the way it's played.
(09:32):
It's a good watch, like last night was a good
game to watch on TV. Great game, right, But we're
so caught in the well I'm not watching greatness because
I'm not watching a built in superstar that the narrative
and look, the market size and the lack of success
of Indiana or Oklahoma City is going to lead to
(09:54):
a really lowly rated finals. I like an ad j
S to baseball because people in their mind have are
set in their ways that baseball is boring. It is slow.
It's home run, strikeout, or walk, nothing else, and they
(10:15):
have that has ingrained in their head that they don't
I am watching baseball watch in March. I need to
watch that stuff whatever, and baseball fans watch it. Nobody
else does. And if you've been watching baseball over the
past I don't know, three or four years since the
new rules, it's awesome. The game moves way faster, It's
brought athleticism back into the game. There's a ton of
(10:38):
young players. It can be exciting, maybe not to the
level of an NFL game. Fine, and again here's the
other part. And Jason, you've said this NFL games can
be a brutal watch brutal, yet it's the most watched,
biggest sport in the United States. So I guess the
(11:00):
point is that the ratings or the narrative don't always
fit the product, especially in sports. Is that fair, Jasuo?
Is that kind of what we talked about.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I think the.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
NFL is like a way different conversation, right, I mean
in the conversation that it's the worst product that it's
been in many years, and it's getting worse and it's
not going to get any better because they're not going
to practice anymore. In that conversation, is this the reason
why nobody cares to fix it? Is because the gambling
market and the fantasy market people have interests in NFL
(11:32):
games that have nothing to do with the quality of play.
That's an outlier to me. So I can't compare apples
to apples with anything compared to the NFL's popularity. Money, gambling,
fantasy interest is driving those ratings.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I think, yes, no question, no question, it's driving those ratings.
You're absolutely right. But I also think though, that because
the sport is so highly rated, people fall on the
well it's you know, it's more exciting or whatever. You know,
it's it's like I saw, was it Troy Aikman who
was who said that the it's a Christmas Day game
(12:10):
or the Thanksgiving game, which is the Cowboys and the Chiefs,
it's going to be the highest rated game ever.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Meanwhile, the Chiefs are a shell of the team that
was awesome five years ago and when was the last
I mean, the Cowboys are the team we make fun
of all the time. Right, It's like, that's not the
two best team. That's not the two teams I would
want to watch the most right again. And I understand
we're talking about like November December, but if you had
to on paper, like who do you want to watch
(12:38):
the most? Like I don't know what the Lions look
like this year, but I'd probably like to be the Lions,
Like Lions and Chiefs sound way better to me, or
I don't know, somebody else in the Lions sounds way
more fun. Because we're slow to catch up to what's
popular is not always what's good.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yeah, sure, and eight years ago people wanted the Lions
off of Thanksgiving. Five years ago, maybe, yes, I mean
that's where that's where we've went. And Doug and saying
what I said about the champion. I know it sounds negative,
and I can understand why people can I help.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
You with them.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Maybe it's the semantics.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
What have you said?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
It's the least well regarded.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
That's it feels like.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
An easy, like a soft, soft way of saying it
an off ramp. But I think that's the reality of it.
It's like, right now, we don't regard them as anything
sort of special, right.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I also think the history of the NBA and what
they've built on and what it's been built on, it's
been built on anything butt parody. It's been built on
superstars and super tea. Sure, and now we're here and
it actually started Doug and thinking of all right, this
is another year where we're in the Final four and
there's no staff and there's no Lebron. So this is
the this is the NBA of the future right now?
(13:47):
Who's going to take the torch? And if this is
the NBA of the future, I'm not mad at it.
I don't know who's gonna win the playoffs. That's why
I'm going to watch Game four tonight. In Game five.
There are other years where all we had to do
is just tune into the finals because we knew what
the outcome was. Those years were not good. I'm not
saying that there aren't positives with this. I love the
drama of it. Minnesota had opportunities last night to get
(14:08):
it done and even the series, and they didn't do it.
But I do just think it's the reality of where
we are and how the face of the NBA is
really really changing. I'm not talking about players. I'm just
talking about what the league actually is and what it
has been for forty and fifty years that right now
it resembles nothing of what it's been.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I think my point would be Jordan was viewed.
When Jordan won his first title in ninety one, it
was against the Lakers, right, and the Lakers they were
on the they had the legacy of hey, they were
the Lakers. They won all these titles in the eighties
and Cream had retired. But whatever. But at the time,
no one thought that Scottie Pippen was one of the
(14:48):
fifty greatest players that play in the NBA. At that time,
Jordan was the greatest player who had not won a title,
and he finally won a title. But the rest of
those guys were not. And it's really interesting on how
now we look back we do the opposite of the Bulls.
We talked about how the super team that the Bulls
were when like they always had a super random point
(15:10):
guard like Steve Kerr didn't start most of his NBA
career except with the Bulls when they won the title.
He even start the whole time there. Right, John Paxson
average to below average NBA player. Most of his career
he wins what three titles? Bj Armstrong like, these guys
were not great players. I talked about it last week
Bill cart Wright when he was traded for Charles Oakley.
(15:31):
It was like Knicks fans celebrated they got medical Bill
Cartwright off of their payroll. He was always hurt Bill
cart Right, Luke Longley, who is the other?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Will Purdue?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Right? Those are the bigs, right, those are the Biggs.
And we look back now and we say, oh, the
Bulls were a super team. They they weren't at scene
as that at the time. And that's what I'm wondering
with Oaklham. The other part too, it is that sorry, sorry,
go ahead, you know I was just gonna say quick.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
This is also on the heels though, the built of
the Bulls winning and prior to that it was Celtics
Lakers and then the Pistons were the finals for three
years straight.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Right, so right, And look, I'm also cautious to not
do the thing that most people are doing now which
I hate, which is, hey could be a super team
that could win like multiple titles. Like stop, let them
win multiple titles and then we'll talk about whether or
not this is you know, what type of legacy they
leave because we did that with the Cubs. How many
towns they win?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
One good point.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
We deal with these young teams, and we just want
to think that it's always going to be this way.
I think the bigger discussion that we have to get
to is why this era in the NBA is it
this way? And I think I think I have the
answer to that one think of there. Thanks for listening
to The Doug Gotleb Show podcast. Be sure to catch
us live every weekday three to five Eastern twelve two
(16:49):
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for
The Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio dot com, or
stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by
searching f s are It's not getting you? It's time
for the Midway? Okay there, Jay Stu topics?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
What do you want on the group text today that
exactly none of you responded to I throughout two? For
the Midway today, y'all, we could share our thoughts on
inside the NBA as it is its current entity. Is
saying goodbye? Or my preferred topic because there's so many
(17:41):
ways to go with this. Allegations of the hateful taunts
that was found unsubstantiated. How dangerous is this? Has the
damage been done? Should allegations like this go punished if
they are considered false, as as per Jesse Smolette found out,
(18:04):
What do you guys like? I mean, we don't have
a female perspective on the show every day, so I
figured maybe that would be good for that month.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Let's let let's let months you choose. Do you want
to choose? Yes, yes, choose.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I'm gonna go with your preferred topic.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Then, Producer, Jason, you choose wisely.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The preferred topic of these allegations of comments noises?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Okay, good, I like this topic a lot. Okay. So
the question is right from from Jason that you'd like
you'd like to put out there to the rest of
the show crew and anybody wants to tweet us at
Gottlieb Show. I g the same is, should you punish
someone who makes up these allegations when the allegations are
(18:53):
clearly false? Oh?
Speaker 5 (18:54):
You know what we should do? You know what we
should do? What? What's the name of the woman? And
list on ESPN that does NBA and WNBA's.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
At Cheney Yeah oo mckayah, McKay.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
So can we play this as just some context to
this conversation. Yes, I guess she came out the day
after the allegations. That weird part where the WNBA is like,
we're gonna, We're gonna investigate, and then everybody's like, I
love the investigation. It's great that we're investigating. This hate
has no room in our game. You know that very
inauthentic messaging. Right after the allegations, Well, I guess uh,
(19:32):
this analyst went on and started to rip on fans
of the fever and how this can't it's can't happen
in the games. Well she kind of had to take
things back on social media yesterday.
Speaker 7 (19:45):
Hey, everybody, I'm sure you've seen the WNBA statement on
the investigation, and I want to address this with the
same energy I did the first time, because if you
really know me, I always try my absolute best to
uplift the WNBA, to celebrate the amazing players, coaches, and
of course the fans. That is something that is at
the core of everything that I do. But if you
know me, you know I'm not afraid to say I
(20:06):
can do better. I am sorry that my message was
in the heat of the moment, because when I initially
spoke on the topic, it really came from a place
of care. It was based on firsthand conversations with people
very close to the situation who raised real concerns, and
they told me what they had experienced, and I felt
like it was important and it was necessary to acknowledge
those allegations and also voice those experiences. Now in the process, however,
(20:30):
I totally recognize that it may have impacted fans in
a way that I did not intend, and I am sorry.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
People just always forget that words have consequences, huh, Like
the most basic of things, words have consequences.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And I don't know if people forget that.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I hope, So I hope that it's that they forget
and it's not just straight up ignoring it.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I hope that it's that they forget. I really do.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
But I guess that's me hoping for the best. The
only I just want to know where this came from,
because I want to know if, like someone said, you
know how people start talking and egging each other on.
Did somebody go to Angel Rees and say did you
hear what?
Speaker 6 (21:16):
Did you hear that?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And maybe Angel Rees didn't hear anything, but you keep
saying that to her and her surrounding people.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Are like, no, we heard it.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You start to believe it, even because you think people
are telling you the truth.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Like, I just want to be the biggest issue with it.
That's the biggest issue with this thing is apparently what
happened was it was pulled off of Twitter where somebody
heard them booing and thought they heard something. And stop
caring what nobody's think on Twitter. Stop it. Nobody cares
about you and your conspiracy thoughts. You have to have
(21:52):
common sense. I know it's not that common. I got it. Okay,
I'm fully aware that common sense is not common. But
a WNBA game is not a place where racial epith
racial language is going to be used. It's just not Okay,
use your head. Really, it's the most diverse league in
(22:14):
terms of race and sexuality of any okay, and it's
all women. So like, do you think for one second
you have to think logically, think logically, Okay, that the
league that honestly is fairly unwelcoming to straight people. And
(22:38):
I think that's part of the discussion over Caitlin Clark.
But the league that has been fighting for attention because hey,
in this era of diversity, in this era where women
should be empowered, we have a women empowered sports league
that's been going on for twenty five years. It's diverse racially,
it's the verse religion wise, it's the verse sexually. You
(23:00):
can't get any better. This is the WNBA. Is what
every university looks for on their brochure. Right, you got
women for all over, different colors. They're beautiful, beautiful, different races,
different hairstyles or whatever, different sexuality. Like, that's every college
brochure ever. Is the WNBA. Do you think for one
(23:20):
second somebody's gonna be yelling out something at Caitlin Clark,
I mean not Kaitlin Clark, or you're at Kaitlin Clark,
or at at Angel Reese and no one's gonna say anything.
But this is what happens when we pay attention to
people that don't matter. On X and again, this is
where the whole new Twitter thing lost everybody. It used
to be people with blue checks. You'd earn that blue
check based upon your status. Now you can buy the
(23:42):
blue check or you don't buy the blue check, which
I don't right that you're just a you're a Twitter handle.
You can buy up followers to make yourself see more important.
You're not important. Stop paying attention to people that aren't important.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
You can buy ads. You can, you can take your
take and you can boost it with the X. These
ads on X are so stupid. It's like someone says
something and they're like, yeah, I want to put this
out to the world, so they pay for it to
be put into your timeline or your feed, and you're like,
I didn't ask for this. It's just money going to
Elon Musk, so he'll just take it and run with it.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
It's absurd. It's it's worse.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
X is worse than Twitter's worst that it's ever been. Sorry, Elon,
but it's it's it's a cesspool of bs. That's a
different subject. I guess they cross over a little bit.
But okay, so Sam, you of everybody here. Actually Montsey's
a big fan too. But you you take up for
the WNBA, you take up for Kitlin Clark. This incident
(24:38):
included Kaitlyn Clark. I will say this. Remember right when
it happened and the w NBA said we're launching an investigation,
everybody jumped on board. They were very supportive of the investigation.
Caitlin Clark said, you know what, it was really loud.
I didn't hear anything, but I'm glad they're investigating the
head coach of the sky or what's Chicago? Yeah, Chicago,
(24:59):
sy He said he was too loud, he didn't hear it.
He was coaching. When they went to Angel Reese and
they're like, what did you hear? She wouldn't say what
she heard. And more importantly, she didn't say I didn't
hear anything. She just kind of left it out there.
She added fuel to this investigation. I'm glad they're investigating. So, Sam,
(25:19):
you're you're a big WNBA guy. What did you think
about the way this played out? You had said initially
that the damage is kind of done already right to
the fans of the fever. Yeah, just opening an investigation
at all kind of puts a stain on all of this.
I thought at the beginning that it wouldn't turn up anything,
and lo and behold, it did not turn up anything. Listen,
(25:40):
I think, I mean, I think for a long time
a lot of human history, women have been the victims
of sexual violence, and they're allowed to obviously, like where
you know post me Too movement, so like women should
be believed, but there are cases where it's abused, and
(26:01):
whether it's racial taunting or allegations of sexual violence. There's
gonna be bad actors in there. I'm not saying anybody
in the sky did this.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
We just just too much, like almost feels like there's
too much gossip involved.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
You're saying, no, that's the problem with the league is
and that's the problem with the league. But that's the
problem with this league is they think everybody's out to
get them, and everybody talking. You know, it's like nobody
we don't care that much to be out to get you.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
Apparently wasn't even Angel Reese. It was someone else on
the team who thought they heard something. But I think
I think also though women men's sports, booing heckling is
just more accepted.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
And oh stop it, Sam, stop again. This is the
this is Mary Montsey. You and I have discussed this before. Okay,
this is the problem with women's sports. You want to
be considered a real legitimate sports enterprise, but you also
want to be protected class.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Saying that I'm saying, I'm not saying that they shouldn't
be booed or heckled. I'm just saying that they should
the players.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
They shouldn't be. And the thing is, like, this is
how it is.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You want to be a professional athlete.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Booing is part of it.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
They've never experienced it and they don't know how to
handle it. But in reality, like this is normal, and
the fact that they think that they shouldn't get those
boos is kind of silly.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
Yeah, I'm just saying up until this point, in the
last two years, men and men's sports have dealt with
booing and heckling more and they've just moved on with it.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
And it's just because no one was paying attention to
the WNBA the way that they are now.
Speaker 6 (27:29):
You know, you're not going to see a lot of
booing and heckling at a field hockey tournament, a women's
field hockey tournament, or like a softball tournament. There's just
not as much of it. So maybe when women encounter
this stuff they take it personally. They don't know how
to react to it, They don't know how to let
it just roll off their shoulders, so it turns into
a whole personal attack thing, and it's just sort of
part of the game of being a professional athlete. Or
(27:50):
people certainly aren't doing female athletes at the Olympics. I
don't think I would hope not. They shouldn't be doing
men either. But there's just not been a lot of
heckling and kind of rough h critiquing in women's sports
up until maybe.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Now right because nobody was really watching.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Well people are the purists were watching, but they were
like that, yes, there's a listen, there's different circles mixing
now in the WNBA, there are there are people that
didn't follow women's sports at all, and they just are like, Oh,
Kaitlyn Clarks, she's.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Okay, so showstopper. Let's get back to Jason's question. Can
you punish people who make false accusations.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
Over the last twenty four hours? The kind of the
right wing influencers, someone who was a host on this
network at some point is in the forefront of this.
They're comparing this to Jesse Smolette. In other words, he
was punished when that thing was determined a hoax and
he made it up to dissuade things like this from happening.
(28:51):
Should there be more messaging from the WNBA today saying
that we're going to punish if things are alleged and
found unfounded.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I feel like they are getting punished in the court
of public opinion.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Yeah, it's gonna be hard to actually punish them.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I mean, yeah, but I think it's happening.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
It is happening.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, it's just not to.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
The degree of of of the guy. But I think
that the w NBA, I think Angel Reese, they're all
getting punished by the by the court of public opinion.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
Yeah, the report coming back and saying we didn't find anything.
It's it's embarrassing. I think the thing with Jesse Smolette
is he hired two guys like right, like this is
like a real plot to make him look better in
make him look like a victim or something. And you know,
to my knowledge, nobody on the sky hired you know, uh,
hecklers to come in and you know what they call
(29:41):
like paid paid protesters. Like I don't I've never believed
in that. I don't think that's a real thing and
certainly not a thing that happened in that Fever game.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
I don't believe Doug.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Uh if if you're found guilty of creating a hoax
and making an entire fan base, uh, how to answer
questions about whether or not they're racists. And and by the way,
it doesn't actually matter that nothing was discovered. There are
people that have predetermined probably prior to this, but this
only becomes confirmation bias that because Indiana perception wise has
(30:16):
a white fan base, more white players play there, they
have to all be racists, right, And all this does
is feed into it. Yes, absolutely, if you can find
out who created this hoax, punish them, Punish them and
embarrass them, because it's embarrassing how the perception they have
created or that they have given confirmation bias to in
regards to fans in Indiana.
Speaker 6 (30:37):
I just I just want to say, I don't know
if that's even possible, because there's you're you can always
just say, ah, you know, I heard something in the crowd,
and and you know, you're like you kind of have
the benefit of the doubt. Like even if you were wrong.
You said, well, there should be an investigation open, but
I don't have I don't have unequivocal evidence to support this,
(31:00):
but there might be something there, so you should look
into it. So if it comes back with yeah, we
didn't really find anything, nothing came up, that's hard to punish.
That you're calling into people into question, people's motives and
what they're really acting on behalf of I just I
think that they're just gonna move on with this and say,
all right, we did this, nothing came up in your story.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
No, here's what happens. Most people go there's a portion
of people that go up there like, here's the boy
who cried wolf with with with the women of the WNBA.
And then there's a percentage of people that are like,
it's just they don't want they don't want to find
the truth. They don't want to find the truth. They
know those fans are racist. You've created more division, not
(31:41):
any sort of cohesion. And that's the midway, the midway.
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotleep Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every week day from three
to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gotleep Show at
Foxsports Treaty dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR. We talked about
(32:04):
it some yesterday, but it does relate to all sports.
And you know there's been a push in the NBA
for I don't know, seven eight years. You know we
should do is have fewer games, don't have back to backs,
too much travel, quality of the product's not great. We
(32:25):
should have fewer games. Major League Baseball used to have
one fifty four they have won sixty two. There was
there's been years which there's been talk of, you know
what we need to do is have we've had the
contraction fewer teams and we've had the fewer games thing.
And if you'll notice the NFL, which is the healthiest,
(32:46):
they're fighting on more games, but they end up always
getting them right. There was a long fight over game seventeen,
but they got it, and now there is a fight
over game eighteen, but they're gonna get it because the
NFL makes money every time they play a football game,
and everybody likes to make money. And there's a lot
(33:07):
of reasons why NBA games, why Major League Baseball games
won't be contracted, but for the most part, there's just
one reason. That reason is money. And I do think
that there are people who don't understand, even people in power,
(33:31):
who don't understand exactly what is valuable about your sport.
The brilliance of the NFL is not just increasing regular
season games. They have increased playoff games. Those are the
most watched, those are the most important, and those are
the ones which you can print money by just simply
putting out there which they have. They want to negotiate
(33:53):
ESPN a new deal. Want to ESPN to keep paying
through the nose from undernet football. Hey, we'll throw in
a wild card football game. It's a that you never had,
we never had before. You know you're going to get
twenty five million people or so watching. Again, the value
is remarkable. So I bring this to the NCAA tournament
(34:13):
in college basketball, where everyone says, you know, it's perfect.
Why expand Then there's a story out today where some people,
some executive, some TV executives think there's not that much
value in it. That you're talking about early first round games,
not much more value. Yeah, it doesn't It doesn't do much.
(34:38):
Won't be much more money made by the NCAA. So
here's the response. The first thing is, I need you
to listen to me, really, really carefully. I told you
long time ago that Lebron James wasn't leaving LA. I
told you a matter of fact before he signed in
LA that of any of the teams that he was considering,
he will never play in San Antonio because San Antonio
(35:01):
back when Greg Popfitch was the coach and they'll still
have this mantra. It was get over yourself. Lebron James
is a great player, one of the all time greatest players,
not just in his sport, in any sport to play.
But there's one thing that he's not. It's over himself.
I told you it would not happen. It's not even
part of the consideration, just like I told you this year.
I don't care what Rich Paul says. He wasn't considering
(35:22):
doing anything other than come back for the Lakers. The
only issue now is how is Lebron James going to
hang around for Bronni's rookie year? Make them draft Brownie,
not make him draft Brice. All right, but let's let's
not get a year out for me predicting and telling
you that he's going to stay. His last year with
the Lakers is going to be next year when they
draft Bryce James, they will have both his sons with
(35:45):
him on the floor at the same time. And as
ridiculous as it is, I mean, you got to put
on a ninety five percent chance of it happening, right,
guy wants to be the perfect father. Can't be the
perfect father if you play favorites and only hanging around
for Bronnie when you clearly can hang out for Bryce.
That's that's not playing favorites. Anyway. I told you lebron
(36:08):
wasn't retiring. I told you wasn't going to San Antonio.
I told you wasn't going anywhere else. I'm telling you now,
Major League Baseball and in the NBA are not contracting
games because all those sites, all those arenas, they have
a certain number of dates which are part of the
lease agreement. Everybody makes money on it. And unless athletes
and coaches and and front office is going to take
(36:31):
less money from less profit, they're not going to ever
contract the games ever. And my guess is with the
NCAAA they will only do this if it opens up
their TV window for negotiating, because you're because people are
(36:53):
right like, there's there is some value to it. But
if those are first four games, what's really the value.
The value you in the NCAA tournament is the sixty
fourteen bracket. That's what everybody bets on, that everybody gambles on,
everybody turns in. That's where your grandma has just as
good a shot as you do of winning a set
of steak knives and if you expand to seventy two
(37:14):
seventy six, you can still be cute and make those
play in games. But if you make those playing games,
you're still only going to get a couple of million viewers.
And you're talking about expanding from sixty eight to seventy two.
Is two more basketball games, that's it, two more basketball
games to seventy six. Its formal basketball games. So does
(37:36):
that value sure? Is it untold millions of dollars? Yeah?
So the prediction is is this Ryan Bersching or is
this Sam? Is this Isaac lowincron one? There is zero
chance they're not going to expand. Zero, And you're like,
(38:00):
why would they expand? Why would they try? Because they
can make more money? And right now, no matter what
you think, everybody needs more money because now you got
to pay the players and all the calculations are screwed
up because previously you plan for it. Hey, the men's
(38:21):
basketball takes this, football takes this. Everybody else gets this.
Coaches get this. This is what we do for scholarship,
this is what we do for this. Now all a sidden
you're talking from you know, a couple hundred thousand at
our level to ten to twenty million at the highest
level that money comes from. It all comes from one pot, basically,
(38:43):
and the only way to increase that pot is to
find valuable assets. And the only valuable asset the NCAA
has in basketball is the tournament. The problem is, unless
it triggers a completely new round of negotiations for their
TV rights, it just doesn't have that much value. And
(39:04):
if they do it despite the fact it doesn't have
that much value and they only increase it by I
don't know ten they're making a billion a year, it's
a billion dollar deal whatever, unless it increases at a
huge rate because they can open it up to open bitterers,
doesn't have a lot of value. It just does not.
(39:30):
And if that's the case, then you know that there
is desperation in the streets to get any possible last dollar.
That's when you're basically going to a pawn shop and
just hey, just give me what you can I'll take
whatever you can give me. I just need some money here.
(39:52):
So either TV becomes a pawnshop for college basketball and
college sports because it's all kind of wrapped together, not
the not college football, or what I think is more
likely is there some sort of sort of clause where
they can reopen negotiations if they get to more games,
and that's the only way they get them negotiations either way,
(40:15):
I get it. I love the sixty fourteen bracket. I'm
all for it. But I also understand that everything costs
more money, and the only way to make more money
is to sell the most valuable thing you have, and
that's the NCAA Tournament.
Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR Booming Up America
Doug Godlieb Show. Bye Sports Radio. M mm hmmmmmmmm, what up?
(00:31):
Welcome in Hope. You're doing great the Doug Gottlieb Show. Hey,
guess who's in the studio with the boys in Los Angeles.
What's up, guys, how are we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Dude named Doug.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, some dude named Doug.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
That's me.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I'm just some dude named Doug.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
He dude name Doug.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Good to see Dan Byer. I heard you guys filling
in yesterday. Guys did a great job with months.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thank you, Welcome back, Doug.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hey got it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's one of those things where this is why I
don't actually like taking days off, because now I'm like,
should I talk about that? You guys talked about it yesterday,
so typebout this talked about yesterday? So let's let's let's
have this conversation. Dan, I was driving yesterday. I want
to say, I want to know if I was driving
or I was listing on my phone, I can't remember,
(01:22):
but you were talking about this is I don't know
if you said, I don't want to know who the
word bad, but this is probably the worst We'll have
the worst champion that we've ever we've had in Yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Think whoever wins the NBA title will probably be the
worst champion we've seen in the last forty years.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, contextualize it, well, why you would say worst?
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Well, I just I look at the teams that we've
had win titles over the generations that I've watched basketball,
the decades that I've watched there's I don't think that
you could take the and I took the Thunder for
this example, because I feel that they were the best
of the four teams. Remaining sure that they weren't better
than the Lakers teams or the Celtics teams of the eighties.
(02:04):
They weren't better than the Bulls run in the nineteen nineties.
They weren't better than Shacks and Kobe's Lakers in the
early oughts, and then Kobe's back to back championship. I
don't think they were better than the eight Celtics. Then
you go to the Warriors and the Calves and Lebron.
I just don't think that this team is or any
of the four teams that win would match up to
(02:27):
those teams. And I think it's because of a spot
that we're at in the NBA at this point.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Okay, I think it's a really good discussion and I
want to have it. Okay, so a couple things. You're
right as of right now. There's a chance you could
be wrong. Let me kind of expound upon that. The
first part is you're already wrong from and this is
(02:57):
where your last sentence is right, which is the place
we are in in the NBA. Because reality is, if
Oklahoma City Thunder and they took a commanding three games
one lead with a win over the Minnesota Timberwolves last night,
if the Oklahoma City Thunder do win an NBA championship,
we got to realize that as much as we think
(03:18):
that they're not great, you know, they're not one of
the elite all time teams. They will have had the
best record in the regular season and they're very likely
to have, despite the fact Denver took them seven the
best record in the postseason as well, Right, Like it's
the first series. Wasn't heavy lifting for them? This one
(03:40):
may only go five games as well, five, five, seven.
We'll see what the finals go. There's a world there
where they have You know, what was the thunder play?
I mean the Warriors won seventy seventy one games the
year they won the title with Kevin Durant. How many
games they win the year? I don't remember.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, I'll look it up quick.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It's like a high sixties whatever, Right, and then I
think they lost what one playoff game?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, it was Game four to the Cavs.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Right, it was like sixteen and one in the playoffs. Right,
this team has lost, Uh what do we got?
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Four?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Five, five games so far in the playoffs. So obviously
you're not going to be an all time great postseason team.
But if I said, hey, you're the best record in
the regular season by four games in the better division
which is the or better conference which is the West,
and you have a pretty clean record in the playoffs,
why are they not a great team? And the reason
they're not a great team is you don't have any
(04:34):
historically great players, right, that's the only yes. Okay, So
but the issue is, well, what if Shay is Kobe
I will now he'll never be He'll never have the
persona of Kobe Bryant. His dad didn't play in the NBA.
(04:56):
He wasn't, you know, drafted straight out of high school.
He actual went to Kentucky, which should have, but he
because he got traded after the Clippers year whatever. He
switched teams and it's it's been a growth process. But
he's twenty six years old. It's not like he's thirty
to two, thirty three, thirty four and he's still chasing it.
And he's James Harden, always been good, never come through.
Like he's risen through the ranks to being the league MVP.
(05:18):
And there's a world where they win one and maybe
they went another one, maybe they went another one, and
then we look back, we're like, that was an incredible team.
Because right now we view Shay as as foul merchant.
He's the MVP. But he's the MVP because it's kind
of a dark time in the NBA. You have these
aging out superstars and we look at Jalen Williams and
(05:39):
We're like, Jayla Williams is such a surprise, it's a
incredible surprise. He was lightly recruited. He's out of Arizona.
He played in a small AAU team. Then he went
and played for Herbert Syndic at Santa Clara and last
night he had a great game. And we view Jala
Williams as nice player, number two guy. But again, Jayala Williams,
how old is he? He's like twenty four years old.
(06:02):
So our view of it now in the moment is
completely accurate. But there's a world where these guys get
the thirty and they have multiple titles. Shay gets the thirty,
He's got multiple titles, multiple MVPs, and we're like, wow,
that was an incredible team. Incredible team.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
I don't dispute any of that.
Speaker 4 (06:20):
And in fact, Doug, I could see a parallel because
one of the passions in my life is golf, and
you know my connections to Aaron Hills, who were just
recently there, and the US Women's Open is there this week.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I'll be there on Sunday. Yes, yeah, I'll be there
on Sunday.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You need, you need I we'll talk about it.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
No, I've got I'm doing my Sunday shows. Yeah, well,
I don't know, maybe in the point being, I'll be
there on Sunday. But the twenty seventeen US Open was
thought to be a dud. Tiger didn't play, Phil Mickelson
withdrew to attend a graduation and Rory didn't make the cut.
But it wasn't the typical US Open because the rough
(07:03):
wasn't eight feet high that people like, and brooks kept
Go won at sixteen under par. At that point, brooks
Kepka hadn't won a major, so it was brooks Keptkuz first.
So now we look back at this leaderboard that had
brooks kept Go won, Hideki Matsuyama tied for second, Tommy
Fleetwood fourth, Xander Shaffley fifth, Ricky Fowler ended up in
(07:24):
a tie for fifth. Justin Thomas was in a tie
for ninth at eight under and he shot sixty three
on Saturday of the US Open. That's a star studded
leaderboard and the low amateur was Scotti Scheffler. So I
get it, and I defended that US Open. But people
said that's awful. That's awful. Now people would look back
(07:45):
eight years later and say, wow, if you had all
of those names competing for a major championship, that would
be pretty entertaining. Sure, Brooks kept Gez you know, won
five majors now and that was his first I get
all that, But what I think hurts Lahoma City Doug
is the run of champions that we've seen. And they
may end up winning two or three or four whatever
(08:07):
after this, but I think people wanted to annoint Denver
as this juggernaut and even in this playoff series, people
I can't count out Yo Kitchen, can't count out the Nuggets.
People wanted to pick Boston to win it all, take
out Jason Tatum's injury, but still they were losing games
to the Knicks.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Even my Bucks.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Look at all the Bucks have failed in their playoff
appearances since winning the title. I think that goes against
what has now been a run of champions that you
can question and put in that group of not great
NBA champions. And now you're talking about teams that don't
have Yo Kitchen, don't have Yiannis. Maybe SGA is that guy,
he's now the MVP, and they could go on a run.
(08:45):
But as we sit right now, I just don't think
that history is on the side of the Oklahoma City thunder.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
Here's the part that Jay stew and I talked about,
because if Jason's honest, right, which he's he's in search
of the opposite of BS, right, that's that he wants
that on his tombstone. The games have been way better
to watch than the games were. Frankly in many of
(09:11):
those times when we had the super teams or superstars
agrees right, really compelling games like down twenty twice, the
Knicks came back beat the Celtics, then up twenty they
at home, they lose to the Indiana Pacers, then down
twenty they come back and beat the Pace Like all
of these plus just the action, the way it's played.
(09:32):
It's a good watch, like last night was a good
game to watch on TV. Great game, right, But we're
so caught in the well I'm not watching greatness because
I'm not watching a built in superstar that the narrative
and look, the market size and the lack of success
of Indiana or Oklahoma City is going to lead to
(09:54):
a really lowly rated finals. I like an ad j
S to baseball because people in their mind have are
set in their ways that baseball is boring. It is slow.
It's home run, strikeout, or walk, nothing else, and they
(10:15):
have that has ingrained in their head that they don't
I am watching baseball watch in March. I need to
watch that stuff whatever, and baseball fans watch it. Nobody
else does. And if you've been watching baseball over the
past I don't know, three or four years since the
new rules, it's awesome. The game moves way faster, It's
brought athleticism back into the game. There's a ton of
(10:38):
young players. It can be exciting, maybe not to the
level of an NFL game. Fine, and again here's the
other part. And Jason, you've said this NFL games can
be a brutal watch brutal, yet it's the most watched,
biggest sport in the United States. So I guess the
(11:00):
point is that the ratings or the narrative don't always
fit the product, especially in sports. Is that fair, Jasuo?
Is that kind of what we talked about.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I think the.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
NFL is like a way different conversation, right, I mean
in the conversation that it's the worst product that it's
been in many years, and it's getting worse and it's
not going to get any better because they're not going
to practice anymore. In that conversation, is this the reason
why nobody cares to fix it? Is because the gambling
market and the fantasy market people have interests in NFL
(11:32):
games that have nothing to do with the quality of play.
That's an outlier to me. So I can't compare apples
to apples with anything compared to the NFL's popularity. Money, gambling,
fantasy interest is driving those ratings.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I think, yes, no question, no question, it's driving those ratings.
You're absolutely right. But I also think though, that because
the sport is so highly rated, people fall on the
well it's you know, it's more exciting or whatever. You know,
it's it's like I saw, was it Troy Aikman who
was who said that the it's a Christmas Day game
(12:10):
or the Thanksgiving game, which is the Cowboys and the Chiefs,
it's going to be the highest rated game ever.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Meanwhile, the Chiefs are a shell of the team that
was awesome five years ago and when was the last
I mean, the Cowboys are the team we make fun
of all the time. Right, It's like, that's not the
two best team. That's not the two teams I would
want to watch the most right again. And I understand
we're talking about like November December, but if you had
to on paper, like who do you want to watch
(12:38):
the most? Like I don't know what the Lions look
like this year, but I'd probably like to be the Lions,
Like Lions and Chiefs sound way better to me, or
I don't know, somebody else in the Lions sounds way
more fun. Because we're slow to catch up to what's
popular is not always what's good.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yeah, sure, and eight years ago people wanted the Lions
off of Thanksgiving. Five years ago, maybe, yes, I mean
that's where that's where we've went. And Doug and saying
what I said about the champion. I know it sounds negative,
and I can understand why people can I help.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
You with them.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Maybe it's the semantics.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
What have you said?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
It's the least well regarded.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
That's it feels like.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
An easy, like a soft, soft way of saying it
an off ramp. But I think that's the reality of it.
It's like, right now, we don't regard them as anything
sort of special, right.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
I also think the history of the NBA and what
they've built on and what it's been built on, it's
been built on anything butt parody. It's been built on
superstars and super tea. Sure, and now we're here and
it actually started Doug and thinking of all right, this
is another year where we're in the Final four and
there's no staff and there's no Lebron. So this is
the this is the NBA of the future right now?
(13:47):
Who's going to take the torch? And if this is
the NBA of the future, I'm not mad at it.
I don't know who's gonna win the playoffs. That's why
I'm going to watch Game four tonight. In Game five.
There are other years where all we had to do
is just tune into the finals because we knew what
the outcome was. Those years were not good. I'm not
saying that there aren't positives with this. I love the
drama of it. Minnesota had opportunities last night to get
(14:08):
it done and even the series, and they didn't do it.
But I do just think it's the reality of where
we are and how the face of the NBA is
really really changing. I'm not talking about players. I'm just
talking about what the league actually is and what it
has been for forty and fifty years that right now
it resembles nothing of what it's been.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I think my point would be Jordan was viewed.
When Jordan won his first title in ninety one, it
was against the Lakers, right, and the Lakers they were
on the they had the legacy of hey, they were
the Lakers. They won all these titles in the eighties
and Cream had retired. But whatever. But at the time,
no one thought that Scottie Pippen was one of the
(14:48):
fifty greatest players that play in the NBA. At that time,
Jordan was the greatest player who had not won a title,
and he finally won a title. But the rest of
those guys were not. And it's really interesting on how
now we look back we do the opposite of the Bulls.
We talked about how the super team that the Bulls
were when like they always had a super random point
(15:10):
guard like Steve Kerr didn't start most of his NBA
career except with the Bulls when they won the title.
He even start the whole time there. Right, John Paxson
average to below average NBA player. Most of his career
he wins what three titles? Bj Armstrong like, these guys
were not great players. I talked about it last week
Bill cart Wright when he was traded for Charles Oakley.
(15:31):
It was like Knicks fans celebrated they got medical Bill
Cartwright off of their payroll. He was always hurt Bill
cart Right, Luke Longley, who is the other?
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Will Purdue?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Right? Those are the bigs, right, those are the Biggs.
And we look back now and we say, oh, the
Bulls were a super team. They they weren't at scene
as that at the time. And that's what I'm wondering
with Oaklham. The other part too, it is that sorry, sorry,
go ahead, you know I was just gonna say quick.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
This is also on the heels though, the built of
the Bulls winning and prior to that it was Celtics
Lakers and then the Pistons were the finals for three
years straight.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Right, so right, And look, I'm also cautious to not
do the thing that most people are doing now which
I hate, which is, hey could be a super team
that could win like multiple titles. Like stop, let them
win multiple titles and then we'll talk about whether or
not this is you know, what type of legacy they
leave because we did that with the Cubs. How many
towns they win?
Speaker 3 (16:26):
One good point.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
We deal with these young teams, and we just want
to think that it's always going to be this way.
I think the bigger discussion that we have to get
to is why this era in the NBA is it
this way? And I think I think I have the
answer to that one think of there. Thanks for listening
to The Doug Gotleb Show podcast. Be sure to catch
us live every weekday three to five Eastern twelve two
(16:49):
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your local station for
The Doug Gottlieb Show at Foxsports Radio dot com, or
stream us live every day on the iHeartRadio app by
searching f s are It's not getting you? It's time
for the Midway? Okay there, Jay Stu topics?
Speaker 5 (17:20):
What do you want on the group text today that
exactly none of you responded to I throughout two? For
the Midway today, y'all, we could share our thoughts on
inside the NBA as it is its current entity. Is
saying goodbye? Or my preferred topic because there's so many
(17:41):
ways to go with this. Allegations of the hateful taunts
that was found unsubstantiated. How dangerous is this? Has the
damage been done? Should allegations like this go punished if
they are considered false, as as per Jesse Smolette found out,
(18:04):
What do you guys like? I mean, we don't have
a female perspective on the show every day, so I
figured maybe that would be good for that month.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Let's let let's let months you choose. Do you want
to choose? Yes, yes, choose.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
I'm gonna go with your preferred topic.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Then, Producer, Jason, you choose wisely.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The preferred topic of these allegations of comments noises?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Okay, good, I like this topic a lot. Okay. So
the question is right from from Jason that you'd like
you'd like to put out there to the rest of
the show crew and anybody wants to tweet us at
Gottlieb Show. I g the same is, should you punish
someone who makes up these allegations when the allegations are
(18:53):
clearly false? Oh?
Speaker 5 (18:54):
You know what we should do? You know what we
should do? What? What's the name of the woman? And
list on ESPN that does NBA and WNBA's.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
At Cheney Yeah oo mckayah, McKay.
Speaker 5 (19:07):
So can we play this as just some context to
this conversation. Yes, I guess she came out the day
after the allegations. That weird part where the WNBA is like,
we're gonna, We're gonna investigate, and then everybody's like, I
love the investigation. It's great that we're investigating. This hate
has no room in our game. You know that very
inauthentic messaging. Right after the allegations, Well, I guess uh,
(19:32):
this analyst went on and started to rip on fans
of the fever and how this can't it's can't happen
in the games. Well she kind of had to take
things back on social media yesterday.
Speaker 7 (19:45):
Hey, everybody, I'm sure you've seen the WNBA statement on
the investigation, and I want to address this with the
same energy I did the first time, because if you
really know me, I always try my absolute best to
uplift the WNBA, to celebrate the amazing players, coaches, and
of course the fans. That is something that is at
the core of everything that I do. But if you
know me, you know I'm not afraid to say I
(20:06):
can do better. I am sorry that my message was
in the heat of the moment, because when I initially
spoke on the topic, it really came from a place
of care. It was based on firsthand conversations with people
very close to the situation who raised real concerns, and
they told me what they had experienced, and I felt
like it was important and it was necessary to acknowledge
those allegations and also voice those experiences. Now in the process, however,
(20:30):
I totally recognize that it may have impacted fans in
a way that I did not intend, and I am sorry.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
People just always forget that words have consequences, huh, Like
the most basic of things, words have consequences.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
And I don't know if people forget that.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I hope, So I hope that it's that they forget
and it's not just straight up ignoring it.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I hope that it's that they forget. I really do.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
But I guess that's me hoping for the best. The
only I just want to know where this came from,
because I want to know if, like someone said, you
know how people start talking and egging each other on.
Did somebody go to Angel Rees and say did you
hear what?
Speaker 6 (21:16):
Did you hear that?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
And maybe Angel Rees didn't hear anything, but you keep
saying that to her and her surrounding people.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Are like, no, we heard it.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
You start to believe it, even because you think people
are telling you the truth.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Like, I just want to be the biggest issue with it.
That's the biggest issue with this thing is apparently what
happened was it was pulled off of Twitter where somebody
heard them booing and thought they heard something. And stop
caring what nobody's think on Twitter. Stop it. Nobody cares
about you and your conspiracy thoughts. You have to have
(21:52):
common sense. I know it's not that common. I got it. Okay,
I'm fully aware that common sense is not common. But
a WNBA game is not a place where racial epith
racial language is going to be used. It's just not Okay,
use your head. Really, it's the most diverse league in
(22:14):
terms of race and sexuality of any okay, and it's
all women. So like, do you think for one second
you have to think logically, think logically, Okay, that the
league that honestly is fairly unwelcoming to straight people. And
(22:38):
I think that's part of the discussion over Caitlin Clark.
But the league that has been fighting for attention because hey,
in this era of diversity, in this era where women
should be empowered, we have a women empowered sports league
that's been going on for twenty five years. It's diverse racially,
it's the verse religion wise, it's the verse sexually. You
(23:00):
can't get any better. This is the WNBA. Is what
every university looks for on their brochure. Right, you got
women for all over, different colors. They're beautiful, beautiful, different races,
different hairstyles or whatever, different sexuality. Like, that's every college
brochure ever. Is the WNBA. Do you think for one
(23:20):
second somebody's gonna be yelling out something at Caitlin Clark,
I mean not Kaitlin Clark, or you're at Kaitlin Clark,
or at at Angel Reese and no one's gonna say anything.
But this is what happens when we pay attention to
people that don't matter. On X and again, this is
where the whole new Twitter thing lost everybody. It used
to be people with blue checks. You'd earn that blue
check based upon your status. Now you can buy the
(23:42):
blue check or you don't buy the blue check, which
I don't right that you're just a you're a Twitter handle.
You can buy up followers to make yourself see more important.
You're not important. Stop paying attention to people that aren't important.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
You can buy ads. You can, you can take your
take and you can boost it with the X. These
ads on X are so stupid. It's like someone says
something and they're like, yeah, I want to put this
out to the world, so they pay for it to
be put into your timeline or your feed, and you're like,
I didn't ask for this. It's just money going to
Elon Musk, so he'll just take it and run with it.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
It's absurd. It's it's worse.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
X is worse than Twitter's worst that it's ever been. Sorry, Elon,
but it's it's it's a cesspool of bs. That's a
different subject. I guess they cross over a little bit.
But okay, so Sam, you of everybody here. Actually Montsey's
a big fan too. But you you take up for
the WNBA, you take up for Kitlin Clark. This incident
(24:38):
included Kaitlyn Clark. I will say this. Remember right when
it happened and the w NBA said we're launching an investigation,
everybody jumped on board. They were very supportive of the investigation.
Caitlin Clark said, you know what, it was really loud.
I didn't hear anything, but I'm glad they're investigating the
head coach of the sky or what's Chicago? Yeah, Chicago,
(24:59):
sy He said he was too loud, he didn't hear it.
He was coaching. When they went to Angel Reese and
they're like, what did you hear? She wouldn't say what
she heard. And more importantly, she didn't say I didn't
hear anything. She just kind of left it out there.
She added fuel to this investigation. I'm glad they're investigating. So, Sam,
(25:19):
you're you're a big WNBA guy. What did you think
about the way this played out? You had said initially
that the damage is kind of done already right to
the fans of the fever. Yeah, just opening an investigation
at all kind of puts a stain on all of this.
I thought at the beginning that it wouldn't turn up anything,
and lo and behold, it did not turn up anything. Listen,
(25:40):
I think, I mean, I think for a long time
a lot of human history, women have been the victims
of sexual violence, and they're allowed to obviously, like where
you know post me Too movement, so like women should
be believed, but there are cases where it's abused, and
(26:01):
whether it's racial taunting or allegations of sexual violence. There's
gonna be bad actors in there. I'm not saying anybody
in the sky did this.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
We just just too much, like almost feels like there's
too much gossip involved.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
You're saying, no, that's the problem with the league is
and that's the problem with the league. But that's the
problem with this league is they think everybody's out to
get them, and everybody talking. You know, it's like nobody
we don't care that much to be out to get you.
Speaker 6 (26:27):
Apparently wasn't even Angel Reese. It was someone else on
the team who thought they heard something. But I think
I think also though women men's sports, booing heckling is
just more accepted.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
And oh stop it, Sam, stop again. This is the
this is Mary Montsey. You and I have discussed this before. Okay,
this is the problem with women's sports. You want to
be considered a real legitimate sports enterprise, but you also
want to be protected class.
Speaker 6 (26:57):
Saying that I'm saying, I'm not saying that they shouldn't
be booed or heckled. I'm just saying that they should
the players.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
They shouldn't be. And the thing is, like, this is
how it is.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
You want to be a professional athlete.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Booing is part of it.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
They've never experienced it and they don't know how to
handle it. But in reality, like this is normal, and
the fact that they think that they shouldn't get those
boos is kind of silly.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
Yeah, I'm just saying up until this point, in the
last two years, men and men's sports have dealt with
booing and heckling more and they've just moved on with it.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
And it's just because no one was paying attention to
the WNBA the way that they are now.
Speaker 6 (27:29):
You know, you're not going to see a lot of
booing and heckling at a field hockey tournament, a women's
field hockey tournament, or like a softball tournament. There's just
not as much of it. So maybe when women encounter
this stuff they take it personally. They don't know how
to react to it, They don't know how to let
it just roll off their shoulders, so it turns into
a whole personal attack thing, and it's just sort of
part of the game of being a professional athlete. Or
(27:50):
people certainly aren't doing female athletes at the Olympics. I
don't think I would hope not. They shouldn't be doing
men either. But there's just not been a lot of
heckling and kind of rough h critiquing in women's sports
up until maybe.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Now right because nobody was really watching.
Speaker 6 (28:06):
Well people are the purists were watching, but they were
like that, yes, there's a listen, there's different circles mixing
now in the WNBA, there are there are people that
didn't follow women's sports at all, and they just are like, Oh,
Kaitlyn Clarks, she's.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Okay, so showstopper. Let's get back to Jason's question. Can
you punish people who make false accusations.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
Over the last twenty four hours? The kind of the
right wing influencers, someone who was a host on this
network at some point is in the forefront of this.
They're comparing this to Jesse Smolette. In other words, he
was punished when that thing was determined a hoax and
he made it up to dissuade things like this from happening.
(28:51):
Should there be more messaging from the WNBA today saying
that we're going to punish if things are alleged and
found unfounded.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
I feel like they are getting punished in the court
of public opinion.
Speaker 6 (29:04):
Yeah, it's gonna be hard to actually punish them.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
I mean, yeah, but I think it's happening.
Speaker 6 (29:08):
It is happening.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Yeah, it's just not to.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
The degree of of of the guy. But I think
that the w NBA, I think Angel Reese, they're all
getting punished by the by the court of public opinion.
Speaker 6 (29:20):
Yeah, the report coming back and saying we didn't find anything.
It's it's embarrassing. I think the thing with Jesse Smolette
is he hired two guys like right, like this is
like a real plot to make him look better in
make him look like a victim or something. And you know,
to my knowledge, nobody on the sky hired you know, uh,
hecklers to come in and you know what they call
(29:41):
like paid paid protesters. Like I don't I've never believed
in that. I don't think that's a real thing and
certainly not a thing that happened in that Fever game.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
I don't believe Doug.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Uh if if you're found guilty of creating a hoax
and making an entire fan base, uh, how to answer
questions about whether or not they're racists. And and by the way,
it doesn't actually matter that nothing was discovered. There are
people that have predetermined probably prior to this, but this
only becomes confirmation bias that because Indiana perception wise has
(30:16):
a white fan base, more white players play there, they
have to all be racists, right, And all this does
is feed into it. Yes, absolutely, if you can find
out who created this hoax, punish them, Punish them and
embarrass them, because it's embarrassing how the perception they have
created or that they have given confirmation bias to in
regards to fans in Indiana.
Speaker 6 (30:37):
I just I just want to say, I don't know
if that's even possible, because there's you're you can always
just say, ah, you know, I heard something in the crowd,
and and you know, you're like you kind of have
the benefit of the doubt. Like even if you were wrong.
You said, well, there should be an investigation open, but
I don't have I don't have unequivocal evidence to support this,
(31:00):
but there might be something there, so you should look
into it. So if it comes back with yeah, we
didn't really find anything, nothing came up, that's hard to punish.
That you're calling into people into question, people's motives and
what they're really acting on behalf of I just I
think that they're just gonna move on with this and say,
all right, we did this, nothing came up in your story.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
No, here's what happens. Most people go there's a portion
of people that go up there like, here's the boy
who cried wolf with with with the women of the WNBA.
And then there's a percentage of people that are like,
it's just they don't want they don't want to find
the truth. They don't want to find the truth. They
know those fans are racist. You've created more division, not
(31:41):
any sort of cohesion. And that's the midway, the midway.
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gotleep Show podcast. Be
sure to catch us live every week day from three
to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gotleep Show at
Foxsports Treaty dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR. We talked about
(32:04):
it some yesterday, but it does relate to all sports.
And you know there's been a push in the NBA
for I don't know, seven eight years. You know we
should do is have fewer games, don't have back to backs,
too much travel, quality of the product's not great. We
(32:25):
should have fewer games. Major League Baseball used to have
one fifty four they have won sixty two. There was
there's been years which there's been talk of, you know
what we need to do is have we've had the
contraction fewer teams and we've had the fewer games thing.
And if you'll notice the NFL, which is the healthiest,
(32:46):
they're fighting on more games, but they end up always
getting them right. There was a long fight over game seventeen,
but they got it, and now there is a fight
over game eighteen, but they're gonna get it because the
NFL makes money every time they play a football game,
and everybody likes to make money. And there's a lot
(33:07):
of reasons why NBA games, why Major League Baseball games
won't be contracted, but for the most part, there's just
one reason. That reason is money. And I do think
that there are people who don't understand, even people in power,
(33:31):
who don't understand exactly what is valuable about your sport.
The brilliance of the NFL is not just increasing regular
season games. They have increased playoff games. Those are the
most watched, those are the most important, and those are
the ones which you can print money by just simply
putting out there which they have. They want to negotiate
(33:53):
ESPN a new deal. Want to ESPN to keep paying
through the nose from undernet football. Hey, we'll throw in
a wild card football game. It's a that you never had,
we never had before. You know you're going to get
twenty five million people or so watching. Again, the value
is remarkable. So I bring this to the NCAA tournament
(34:13):
in college basketball, where everyone says, you know, it's perfect.
Why expand Then there's a story out today where some people,
some executive, some TV executives think there's not that much
value in it. That you're talking about early first round games,
not much more value. Yeah, it doesn't It doesn't do much.
(34:38):
Won't be much more money made by the NCAA. So
here's the response. The first thing is, I need you
to listen to me, really, really carefully. I told you
long time ago that Lebron James wasn't leaving LA. I
told you a matter of fact before he signed in
LA that of any of the teams that he was considering,
he will never play in San Antonio because San Antonio
(35:01):
back when Greg Popfitch was the coach and they'll still
have this mantra. It was get over yourself. Lebron James
is a great player, one of the all time greatest players,
not just in his sport, in any sport to play.
But there's one thing that he's not. It's over himself.
I told you it would not happen. It's not even
part of the consideration, just like I told you this year.
I don't care what Rich Paul says. He wasn't considering
(35:22):
doing anything other than come back for the Lakers. The
only issue now is how is Lebron James going to
hang around for Bronni's rookie year? Make them draft Brownie,
not make him draft Brice. All right, but let's let's
not get a year out for me predicting and telling
you that he's going to stay. His last year with
the Lakers is going to be next year when they
draft Bryce James, they will have both his sons with
(35:45):
him on the floor at the same time. And as
ridiculous as it is, I mean, you got to put
on a ninety five percent chance of it happening, right,
guy wants to be the perfect father. Can't be the
perfect father if you play favorites and only hanging around
for Bronnie when you clearly can hang out for Bryce.
That's that's not playing favorites. Anyway. I told you lebron
(36:08):
wasn't retiring. I told you wasn't going to San Antonio.
I told you wasn't going anywhere else. I'm telling you now,
Major League Baseball and in the NBA are not contracting
games because all those sites, all those arenas, they have
a certain number of dates which are part of the
lease agreement. Everybody makes money on it. And unless athletes
and coaches and and front office is going to take
(36:31):
less money from less profit, they're not going to ever
contract the games ever. And my guess is with the
NCAAA they will only do this if it opens up
their TV window for negotiating, because you're because people are
(36:53):
right like, there's there is some value to it. But
if those are first four games, what's really the value.
The value you in the NCAA tournament is the sixty
fourteen bracket. That's what everybody bets on, that everybody gambles on,
everybody turns in. That's where your grandma has just as
good a shot as you do of winning a set
of steak knives and if you expand to seventy two
(37:14):
seventy six, you can still be cute and make those
play in games. But if you make those playing games,
you're still only going to get a couple of million viewers.
And you're talking about expanding from sixty eight to seventy two.
Is two more basketball games, that's it, two more basketball
games to seventy six. Its formal basketball games. So does
(37:36):
that value sure? Is it untold millions of dollars? Yeah?
So the prediction is is this Ryan Bersching or is
this Sam? Is this Isaac lowincron one? There is zero
chance they're not going to expand. Zero, And you're like,
(38:00):
why would they expand? Why would they try? Because they
can make more money? And right now, no matter what
you think, everybody needs more money because now you got
to pay the players and all the calculations are screwed
up because previously you plan for it. Hey, the men's
(38:21):
basketball takes this, football takes this. Everybody else gets this.
Coaches get this. This is what we do for scholarship,
this is what we do for this. Now all a sidden
you're talking from you know, a couple hundred thousand at
our level to ten to twenty million at the highest
level that money comes from. It all comes from one pot, basically,
(38:43):
and the only way to increase that pot is to
find valuable assets. And the only valuable asset the NCAA
has in basketball is the tournament. The problem is, unless
it triggers a completely new round of negotiations for their
TV rights, it just doesn't have that much value. And
(39:04):
if they do it despite the fact it doesn't have
that much value and they only increase it by I
don't know ten they're making a billion a year, it's
a billion dollar deal whatever, unless it increases at a
huge rate because they can open it up to open bitterers,
doesn't have a lot of value. It just does not.
(39:30):
And if that's the case, then you know that there
is desperation in the streets to get any possible last dollar.
That's when you're basically going to a pawn shop and
just hey, just give me what you can I'll take
whatever you can give me. I just need some money here.
(39:52):
So either TV becomes a pawnshop for college basketball and
college sports because it's all kind of wrapped together, not
the not college football, or what I think is more
likely is there some sort of sort of clause where
they can reopen negotiations if they get to more games,
and that's the only way they get them negotiations either way,
(40:15):
I get it. I love the sixty fourteen bracket. I'm
all for it. But I also understand that everything costs
more money, and the only way to make more money
is to sell the most valuable thing you have, and
that's the NCAA Tournament.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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