September 20, 2025 • 40 mins
On this edition of The Best Of The Week Of The Doug Gottlieb Show:
Doug welcomes New York Times bestselling author Gary Myers onto the show to talk about his new book out called: “Brady vs. Belichick. The Dynasty Debate,” which is out today. Find it wherever you get your books.
On this installment of The Midway, Doug and the crew discuss Dabo Swinney's situation at Clemson and the state of college football.
Shawne Merriman joins the show.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the best of the Dog dot Liab Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. He's
a New York Times best selling author, longtime sports un
sports writer, covering, among other things, that the National Football League,
and he's authored a new book that's called Brady Versus
Belichick The Dynasty Debate, which is out today wherever you
get your books are online if you get audio books
as well. Gary Myers joins us now on The Doug
(00:29):
Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio, and Gary, what what
pushed you to write this book?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Doug? I think that, you know, I'm always looking for
interesting topics to write books about, and this one in
particular just kind of jumped out of me that I
think it's truly like the greatest unanswered debate in NFL history.
There's no real right or wrong answer, but everybody has
an opinion on it. So I decided that it was.
(00:58):
It was so intriguing to me, Becau because there were
you know, highs and lows, ebbs and flows during the
twenty years together, where early on it was Belichick, then
it was both of them, and then it was Brady.
I guess just set out to talk to as many
people as I possibly could and put together something that
I thought would be like the defensive look at the
Brady Belichick era, you know, strictly through the lens of
(01:20):
who deserves the most credit?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Okay, so what was the process like? How did you
how did you dive into finding out who deserves the
most credit?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well? I talked to I talked to a lot of
the players that played for Belichick and were teammates with Tom.
I talked to a bunch of coaches who went against them.
I looked into their legacies and how they were each
impacted by the controversies, you know, Spygate into Flate date,
(01:50):
and how that would how history would look at them
as a result of that, and whether that would change
any of their accomplishments. I think my favorite chapter in
the book really is about Moe Lewis, who was the
Jets linebackers. I'm sure you remember who blasted Drew Bletsoe
in that game in two thousand and one in Foxborough
(02:13):
that began the Brady era, and Lewis has become sort
of a recluse from football because Jet fans and I
think very unfairly Doug blame him for the Patriot dynasty
because they're saying, if he didn't do that to Bledsoe,
then we never would have heard of Tom Brady, which
(02:35):
isn't true because Belchip loved Brady even before he stepped
on the field. But all Lewis was doing was what
he was paid to do. He was a linebacker and
drew Bletsoe at a third and ten. He was running
around the right end trying to get a first down
on a third and ten and the Jets were up
seven with five minutes to go, and he was expecting
(02:56):
Bletsoe to run out of bounds. He wanted him to
run out of bounds to said. He cut it into
side and his left shoulder or his right shoulder, hed
bloods so on the left side of his chest and
it was the most brutal hit I ever seen, And
so Mo is very resentful of Jet fans blaming him.
(03:18):
What happened after that when all that really needed to
happen was that just had to figure out a way
to beat the Patriots, which I only did once and then
happened to me in the playoffs, you know, But so
Moe has become somewhat of a football recluse that he
just he was okay. I had to talk him into
talking to me, but once he once he did, I mean,
he was, he was great. But I kind of hung
(03:40):
up the phone feeling bad for him that a big
part of his life is no longer a part of
his life because he feels like, you know, he's just
been blamed, and it's kind of ridiculous. But that's the way.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It's so ridiculous, you know, it's funny, Gary, I was
that was the first weekend That was the first weekend's
game after nine to eleven, absolutely, and I believe it
was Sunday Sunday Night football.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
No, actually it was a four clock I think it
was four.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
O'clock, okay, And I was. I was watching it at
Siders in Plainville, Connecticut. You're like, well, why do you know?
Because that was that was my first chance. I was
still playing professional basketball, but nothing was going on overseas,
so I got to fill in for Todd Wright all night.
And somewhere there's probably a tape kept where I said,
(04:30):
Drew Bledsoe's out, like the Patriots are done, you know,
and and you know, obviously I can I can eat
my words today. It's it is fascinating, right. I mean,
he went to Tampa and he won a Super Bowl,
and I I would point out that Belichick, you know,
one year he won seven games I think it was
(04:52):
seven games with Cam Newton as quarterback who couldn't throw
the ball anymore. Right, They won games with less than
one hundred yards pass it, And I thought that might
have been his best coaching job ever. But as you
kind of broke into all of these interviews, what's the
general sense you got from players now that they're kind
of removed from the situation.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, I mean as far as the Cam Newton situation
was concerned, I think that really accentuates the point that Belichick,
for whatever reason, was completely unprepared for the post Brady era.
Even though he pushed him out the door, he didn't
have the successor in the building. He wanted it to
be Garoppolo, but I think Jimmy was getting antsy to play.
(05:33):
But more than that, Brady wanted him out of the building,
and Kraft forced Belichick to trade Garoppolo and he wound
up trading him to the Niners. Now it turns out,
you know, Tom is in the seventeen season and the
eighteen season got back to the Super Bowl again, So
he wasn't anywhere near Don and so Groppolo probably would
have left anyhow, But that didn't prevent Belichick from trying
(05:56):
to find a quarterback because at some point Brady he
was going to stop playing. It turns out he stopped
playing for the Patriots because Belichick didn't want him anymore.
But that was I think that really illustrated how Belichick
lost his touch with personnel, both in drafting and in
signing free agents. That he lets Brady walk out the
(06:19):
door without having somebody that said, Okay, this guy's going
to play instead. And you know, the next year that
drafted Mac Jones and they made the playoffs and they
lose by thirty points to the Bills. And then he
brings in I think it was in twenty two, maybe
it was twenty two. He brings in Matt brings Matt
(06:41):
Patricia back and Joe Judge back, a defensive coach and
a special teams coach who failed his head coaches with
the Lions and the Giants, and he brings them back
as Matt Jones's coaches. And you got a guy who
made the playoffs as a rookie, and you're trying to
build on it, and you make his coaches a special
team's coach and a defensive coach, and you know, not surprisingly,
(07:04):
Mac Jones won completely backwards. So I think overall the
feelings from the players was that Belichick was extremely instrumental
in the early years of Brady, and I think you'd
have to be foolished not to think that way. But
as as the years went on and Tom, you know,
went from being okay, only Peyton Manning is better to well,
(07:26):
he's good as Peyton Manning. Then he's better than Peyton Manning.
Now is he as good as Joe Montana. No, he's
better than Joe Montana. As he took those progressive steps,
it became more Bradist team than Belichick's team. And I
think the last seven years was completely Brady.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Stug Gottlieb show here on Fox Sports, Trader the great
Gary Meyers joining us. He's written this new book it's
about Brady and Belichick, the dynasty debate. I think that's
it's just fascinating, it's absolutely fascinating. Is that why Belichick's
back coaching at college?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Ye? Well, if he wants to prove it. Come on,
without Brady, He's not going to prove it by being
in North Carolina unless he wins the national championship, which
I mean, I follow college football somewhat, but I don't
foresee that happening in North Carolina. So I don't know.
I think he's in North Carolina, Doug because he loves
(08:20):
to coach, and he didn't have anything else he wanted
to do, and he still felt he had the passion
for it, and he knew he wasn't going to get
a job in the NFL, so he took the job
at Carolina. It's the worst time, I mean, as you know,
to be a college coach at like in a major university,
because you got to deal with the NILS and the
transfer portal and you have to re recruit your team
(08:43):
every year. I mean, who wants that when you've never
coached in college before. So it just shows how desperate
he was to coach again, that he'd throw himself into
the most chaotic time in college sports history.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, can I give you another, maybe a different way
of of looking at it. I don't know if I
don't know if it's desperate or if it's arrogant. And
here's how what the NFL people have told me. And again,
you've done research, you've done a book. I'm just you know,
sports radio and now coaching. Okay, so but they said, hey,
(09:18):
you know what Belichick and those guys did best with
They were the best at the waiver wire of anybody.
They could find a guy who hit Wes Welker, you know,
and turn him into a superstar. And I think there's
an arrogance there to where I love Michael Lombarty, he's
actually a family friend, and but there's an arrogance there
to where like, hey, we can essentially every year is
(09:40):
free agency in college football. We can evaluate better than
anybody else. And so we'll be able to find diamonds
in the rough and then use the fact that we're
you know, we're Bill Belichick with the high end guys,
we'll be able to even at North Carolina with less
of a budget. I'm sure they have a really good
(10:00):
budget then some of the big boys. We're just smarter
than you, right, because that was always their thing with
how they drafted, that was always their thing with how Yeah,
we just we think we're better at developing. We think
we're better at finding damonds up. I think part of
it is they think that yes it is chaotic, but
it's every year free agency and they can evaluate better
(10:21):
than other people.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, the evaluation will help if they can find you know,
it's a cliche, but you know they find the diamonds
in the rough kind of guys. But the ones who
have an opportunity to go to LSU or Alabama or
Georgia or Michigan, and you have to figure the money
will probably be about the same. Then it comes down
(10:43):
to Gobilichick's sitting in a seventeen year old's living room
with the kids' parents and they say, this guy's going
to get me into the NFL. Or are they thinking
I don't want to go play for this seventy three
year old. I don't know how long he's going to
be around, and you know, his reputation doesn't really appeal
to me. I think that it can go either way.
(11:05):
But Doug, I think the whole key to whether he
has success in North Carolina is whether he can find
a quarterback. And I don't know that he'll get a
five star quarterback there. If a guy, if a kid
wants to go play, but he proved in New England.
He doesn't have to have He did it with a
six round quarterback, so if he can, I mean, he's
never gonna find another Brady. But he doesn't necessarily have
(11:28):
to find somebody like that. He just has to find
somebody who's really good. And you know, whether he hits
Jack Pott and gets a five star quarterback, or you know,
finds a kid who is sitting on the bench and
who in Minnesota or Nebraska or Michigan or whatever and
and thinks he has potential and then can develop them.
(11:50):
Maybe that's the way he's got to do it. But
if he doesn't get a quarterback, they have no chance,
because that's just the way the game is structured.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Like.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Especially college football, especially especially Why is Brady still why
is he chasing this Raiders thing?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Well? I think that, Well, he never wanted to get
into coaching, and I mean the great players never want
to get into coaching because the hours are too long.
I mean, you know that's how long those hours are.
And he wanted to be involved in football. And I
don't know where the relationship with Mark Davis started, but it.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Almost started when he was leaving and he wanted to
go to the Raiders, right, and at at the time
the Raiders had who is Derek Carr and they didn't
want to get rid of Derek Carr.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Well, I think that Mark Davis did want him, and
Glutton didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Drutin didn't correct.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, but I don't know like what the connection was
if there was a connection prior to that between Davis
and Brady, because now it evolved into you know, da
was selling five percent of his team to Tom and
five percent to Tom's partner. I don't know how it
evolved from him wanted to go and play for the
Raiders to agree to sell part of his team to him.
(13:13):
The connection had to be deeper somewhere. I just don't
know what it is. But you know, Tom is incredibly
competitive and this is a way for him to kind
of stay in it. The Raiders are just like an
interesting I wouldn't have guessed. I would have guessed like
the Dolphins because he lives in Florida, or you know,
(13:35):
maybe Craft because he considers him his fifth son. He
would have sold them five percent of the Patriots, you know,
with the other ninety five percent is going to stay
in the Craft family. I never would have guessed the Raiders,
especially because it's like so far from home, and you know,
Tom is a really good dad, and two of his
kids live in Florida and one lands in New York,
(13:56):
and you know, he travels enough for Fox and to
think that, you know, on his day off, presumably he
flew to Vegas to sit and watch the game last night.
By the way, this whole thing with him sitting with
his sets in the coaches booth last night, the NFL
issued some kind of innocuous statement today that you know,
(14:23):
you know, Tom is still not allowed to go in
a facility. All these meetings. The production's meetings have to
be virtual, and that's the rule that how they changed
them this year. Last year couldn't be in the meetings
at all, Doug. Next, this coming week, Brady's got the
Cowboys and the Bears, and He's gonna be left to
sit in the production meetings virtually, and he's allowed to
(14:44):
talk to players on the field. The following week, the
Raiders play the Bears. Is there anybody who doesn't think
that information that Brady picks up on the Bears working
the game this week is not going to be turned
over to the Raiders, who then played the bears. I mean,
this is this such an incredible conflict of interest. And
I didn't think that until I saw what happened last night.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, the optic, the optics for optics, for optics were
not good.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Optics were not good.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Because because there's there's part of it that I like it.
You know, if you bring it as a broadcaster, the
inside knowledge, but in a in a league which everybody
is paranoid, and considering he was part of the Patriots
with Spygate and all the other stuff. Yeah, it's a
terrible look. It's a terrible look for the golden boy
of the Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I mean it's Doug. It's fine for him to get
inside knowledge. I mean what Collinsworth and Akman and all
those guys do. Sure they work it really hard, but
they're not working for a team. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
No, no, I get it. I get it. It's it's bizarre. Gary,
this is gonna be really good. I know it's gonna
be another best seller. Gary Meyer's New York Times best
selling author longtime sportswriter, covered the NFL. The book is
called Brady Versus Belichick, The dynast Debate. It's out today
wherever you get your books or your audio books. Pick
(16:04):
it up. Gary, thanks so much for your time. I
really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Doug, thanks for having me on, and good luck this
basketball season.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
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Speaker 2 (16:21):
Hey, what up there, It's Doug Gottlieb Show Fox Sports Radio.
You having a good day. You're gonna for the next
hour and oh yeah, by the way, after this hour,
you want to download the podcast. You can hear the
whole show plus the in the Bonus podcast, which is
a special hour edition you can hear on radio. You
can only get when you download the podcast wherever you
download podcasts. Hour two is always awesome, all right, always awesome.
(16:43):
R J. Young's going to join us. He is the
He has the Number one show, which is a huge
college football podcast. He's also gigantic Oklahoma Homer Big week
this week for the Sooners. They just demolished Temple. Now
they bring in Auburn right first SEC game and Auburn's
quarterback was Oklahoma's quarterback Jackson Arnold last year. Can't wait
(17:04):
to talk with r J. Young, the guy who was
the next guy is now with Auburn and then John Matteer.
Now maybe he's the next Oklahoma quarterback to win the
Heisman Trophy. As he is, I think the Empire said
yesterday he's the betting favorite to win the Heisman. Dan
can definitely correct me if if I'm wrong, I'm right. Okay,
thanks Dan. Anyway, we'll get to some college football upcoming.
(17:29):
Also got to talk Tush push. I saw something on
First Things First which I thought was absolutely brilliant, and
we'll we'll play that off versus something that an Eagles
offensive lineman said about the Tush push this past week.
That'll be upcoming in fifteen minutes. But it is the
middle of the week. It's a Wednesday. It is the
(17:50):
middle of the day, right, I mean one on the west,
three on the east. You're not going to bed at
seven tonight. It's the middle of your day, and it's
the middle of our show. We have two hours of
live radio, one hour of podcast, which which lands in
your queue at the top of the hour. So we
do something called the Midway.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
He's not getting.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
It's time for stuck in the middle. The Midway.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
The Midway is brought to you by the lg x
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(18:38):
the on the midway, Jason.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Henk you Doug, I'll take it from here. Dabo Swinney
made news. He went viral as he's protecting his turf.
I guess Dabo, and you guys can correct me if
I'm wrong. They lost a game on Saturday they that
most people thought they should have won, and they're one
and two on the season and the knives are out
(19:01):
and Dabbo took time yesterday to address this.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
If they want me gone, they if they tired of winning,
they can send me on the way, because that's all
we've done is win. So if they tired of winning,
we've had. We've won this league eight out of the
last ten years. Is that not good? I'm just asking
is that good? I don't know if that's good or not.
To win your league eight out of ten years, to
go to playoffs seven out of ten years, to being
four Nations Championships and went it twice. Yeah, we little
down right. Now take your shots, but I got a
(19:25):
long memory case, y'all don't know. We'll be all right.
We'll bounce back. This is a program built to last,
always has.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Been, always will be. And I would just say, if you.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
Give up on us, if you don't believe on us,
because we've lost two games down to the last trade
and we're wanting. You didn't believe in us anyway, so
it don't matter. You wasn't all in anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
If you all in, you burn the ships.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Man.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
There ain't no exit strategy like you're freaking all in.
And hey, listen, I mean Clemston's tired of winning. They
send me on my way, but I'm gonna go somewhere else,
and coach, I ain't going to the beach. Hell, I'm
fifty five. I got a long way to go. Y'all
have to deal with me for a while. I had
a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I'm just getting going.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
I'm just now good enough to be a head coach.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Now, you guys are the college football guys. Doug, you're
a head coach. Dan, you follow the sport closely from
a thirty thousand foot view on this. If I could
as just listening to that SoundBite, that sounds like a
guy who has made more money than he could spend,
who if you want to buy him out, would be
a tremendous amount of money that is grandkids probably couldn't spend.
(20:31):
And I'm going to say whatever I want, so get
rid of me and I'll probably get a really good
job next. That sounds like a guy that could kind
of take or leave things. But you guys might disagree.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I love it. I don't think it has anything to
do with anybody buying him out. I think that was
really at the whether it's fine bombs or Internet trolls
of the world right understanding the reality of it. And
again I have a lot to say on Clemson, and
(21:06):
I'll say it, but again my thing is, I don't
think that was Hey, he's spent too much money. It's
he knows that coaching football and coaching, and the one
thing the Playoff allows is for real coaching, which is
what do you look like at the end of the season,
and we can keep getting better. So I think that
was more at the Internet or at X and social
(21:27):
media than it was Clemson administration. Clemson boosters Chase Dan,
what do you think?
Speaker 7 (21:33):
And it very it may well be that that could
be the case with Dabbo. And I actually will side
with Dabbo on this in the fact that Clemson, we
all know this, clemsoning used to be a verb when
you lost the game you should have won, or blew
(21:55):
it in some crazy fashion. That was clemsoning, and that
happened and prior to Dabbo, and it happened years after
the year after year, season after season. Something that you
think could go right for the Tigers ultimately wouldn't and
he turned it around. And I understand that this new
age of college football is one that a lot of
(22:16):
people are adjusting to and Dabbo may seem like a
fossil or an antique because of the new way of
college football. But I hate it when coaches get run
out of town for stuff that they shouldn't have And
considering where Clemson was prior, I think that Dabbo has
at least another two years of goodwill built up for
(22:39):
the run that he put them on. And that doesn't
even include Doug. Everything that you said about the current
state of college football and what is the real goal
at the end of the season. Their loss to LSU
wasn't great, but you know what, it's really not going
to hurt them in the long run. And when you
look at the ACC seems to be there for the taking. Sure,
(23:01):
you lose a game at Georgia Tech new squash, Georgia
Tech's pretty good football team, Yep, those things happen. So
for a fan base that now seems like they're spoiled,
it's those spoiled brats that I think Dabo is talking to.
And I may not agree with everything that he does
with with it coaching, in how they build their team,
(23:21):
but I am one hundred percent behind him and what
he said in defending his record and what he has
done for that school.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah. So let me get into the state of college
football thing. Their deal is they want to stay out
of the portal. They want all you know, hey, where
get our guys, keep our guys, grow our guys, and
go from there. And here's the thing that, look, no
one actually knows what the best way to do it is,
and the best way to do it at one place
(23:48):
might not be the best way to do it it
somewhere else. Now, the one thing Dabo had going for
him that others did not. Was he had, you know,
eight nine years of excellence before you know, he had
a couple like five unbelievable years before the portal started,
before playing players really started. So he did have a culture,
(24:12):
he did have the backing of everybody. He could have
done it a bunch of different ways. We're all I'll
agree with Dabo is like, I don't think they have
the money of a Georgia. I don't think they have
the money of an SEC. And so if you want
to compete at the highest level when you're not at
(24:32):
that level financially, you got to find a different way
because you just can't load up. It's it's like, it's
the reason that moneyball exists in baseball.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
The A's had no chance of outbidding the Yankees, just none,
or the Dodgers or any of these big market even
the Giants, right, they just don't have that much money.
So I just we're all trying to figure out what
the best avenue is for our university. And it's a
(25:01):
trial and err thing. And again last year is a
perfect example. Didn't look great out of the gate, but
they end up coming around and winning the ACC right
and going to the playoffs and ultimately, you know, did
they live up to the Hey, can you have a
high retention rate and win a national championship? No, they
were a notch below talent wise the elite elite teams,
(25:24):
but they had a level of consistency and that I
think he believes is their avenue. Yeah, he's absolutely earned
the right for more time. And I do think I
told you last year, I was cheering for him because
I like that way. I think that's I think you
can build the true college experience. I think you can
(25:44):
bring great culture. I think you're gonna have more consistent
ten win years that way, even though you may not
have a national championship that way. That's the hard part, right,
like the going all in every year for new players
and new pieces. I think the high and the lows.
It's Florida State two years ago, Floria State doesn't lose
a game. Last year, Florestate wins two games this year.
(26:06):
I think they're back to being good. Could be next
year because you just year by year, there's such volatility.
He's building for consistency. I think that's the smarter play.
It's the more consistent play. But again, like you have
to preserve the right. You might be wrong because no
one's ever experienced college sports in this era. It's new
(26:28):
to everybody, everybody.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
I just wouldn't want to be the president or the
ad or the boosters or whoever to be the one
to run Dabble out of town.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
But you know where he's gonna go, right, I mean,
everybody knows what happens. Well, he sits there and waits,
and if Calen boy gets fired, he gets the job
at Alabama.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
Yes, that that seems to be a possible landing spot,
but it should never come to that.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It really shouldn't be at Clemson. He is Clemson Football.
Speaker 7 (26:57):
And I would also say, Doug that, And I'll use
your sport as an example of someone like coach k
who transitioned and altered the way that they did things
because of a different landscape in college basketball. Sure that
Dabbo at least, if he's stuck in his ways now,
(27:17):
at least deserves the runway for the next couple of
years to continue to really analyze if what he is
doing right now is correct or if he does need
to turn it around. And that's something that you shouldn't
throw away because of two losses in one score games
(27:38):
to one team that's three and nine, and again Georgia
Tech I think is a pretty good football team and
LSU at home. I know that LSU outplayed Clemson in
that game, but still one score game. Like, what are
we doing here if we're running someone out of town
because they're one and two with a combined loss of
ten points on their two losses this year. I just yeah,
(28:00):
I don't I don't like it. I don't like it either.
I understand that there's an ever changing world of college sports,
and I think a lot of schools are trying to
find out ways. We also don't know, doug on how
much the new revenue sharing deal in the ACC is
going to affect the top schools because they are expected
to get more money because of their exposure and what happens.
(28:22):
So does that put the Miami's in Florida States and
Clemsons further down the road than the other schools once
that really fully takes, you know, goes into effect. I
don't know. But just for for Dabble to be dealing
with this and I get it, And if there's he's
said a lot of stuff previously which kind of makes
him an easy target for this, But I'm glad that
(28:43):
he's sticking up for himself because I just think it's
absurd to have this sort of conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Look, I I'd even I'd even link in Mike Gundy
at MI alma mater right where you know, they get
blasted by Oregon, and look, the whole deal is he
shouldn't have played the game. Shouldn't have played the game right.
That game was scheduled in twenty eighteen. Oregon was eight
and seven at the time, Oklahoma State was the top
ten team. The landscape of college BA has changed showed dramatically,
(29:10):
and I think Mike Gundy and obviously Dan Lanning picked
on it made it act to be some negative. I
think my Gundy was trying to be one trying to
set everybody up for what they were going to see,
like he knew. And two, he's actually trying to give
them a company, like look, they're really well coached and
they got way more money than we have. Like this,
This is what he should have said, was this is
what big time college. If you want to build a
(29:31):
program at a place like Oregon where you don't have
great in state recruits, this is what you do. They
have done it perfectly. That's all you have to say. Okay,
But the point is that, like, do we think that
in two years Mike Gundy has forgotten how to coach football?
Speaker 7 (29:46):
No?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Right, Like he suddenly like completely lost track of how
to coach football. Last year they beat Arkansas and then
all of a sudden it fell apart. Why because Arkansas
beat him up? They lost Like they only had three
or four difference makers. I think three or four of
them got hurt. The quarterback end up in a seventh
year stinking up to join the offensive line wasn't good enough.
But they lost their difference makers to injury because the
(30:07):
attrition of early in the season and they don't have
the money to have the depth. Then he scraps it
and has to have a whole new staff. You have
a whole new staff and you have money for the
first time, and you go out and spend it. You
don't know what to like. People are gonna make mistakes,
make mistakes first time you have money, when you haven't
had money and you have a new staff, you don't
have an identity. How are we gonna play? We don't know.
Guys are showing up late. And then you go and
(30:29):
play a behemoth like Organ and you get pumbled. Guess what,
Ninety percent of the teams get pummeled by Organ. So
you know again, my thing is, if you've shown that
you can win over a decade, which Dabo has, which
Mike Gundy has, you got to give him the benefit
of the doubt of give him a little bit of
(30:50):
runway because this is a completely different era, completely different
and what you're playing is until you see it play out.
And no, if your plan is, hey, we're gonna win
this year and you tell everybody we're going all the
we're gonna win this year and then you don't, that's different.
But you say, here's our plan, here's what we're gonna try.
You have to understand you might be wrong and things
(31:12):
might things might not go well. And that's what's happened
in Oakland State, and we'll see what's happening in Clemson.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
Oh well, I will finish you with this. This would
be my last word. Just to jump back to Dabble
for a second. There isn't a game on their schedule
outside of a home game against Florida State number seven
Florida State that they shouldn't win, and that game against
Florida State is a game that is winnable for them,
so they could run the table. As some people pick
Clemson to win the national title at the beginning of
(31:38):
the year. If they do go on a run, Doug,
you know what we're gonna hear two months from now
is the team I wouldn't want to face in the
bracket Clemson, just you know, like we would have any
other the team you don't want to face because they
would be hot at that time and it would be
funny on how two months difference would change the narrative.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
And that is the mid the Midway.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Sean Merriman joins us, of course, everybody knows lights Out.
Lights Out was the rookie of the year, lights Out
spending all Pro and lights Out kind of have to
spend some time with this year. On The Doug Gottlieb
Show on Fox Sports Radio, Sean, what do you think?
What do you think of the Chargers to an O start?
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Yeah, I mean, look, obviously I don't want to be biased,
but I've been kind of preaching us the whole off season.
You know, I'm more surprised at other people surprised, right
from the same team that that Jim Harball took from
Brandon Selling five win, five or six win team and
took them to the playoffs. So what do you think
is gonna happen the following year? And there's more so
(32:48):
people talking about Kansas City wasn't as good. Kansas City
City is still a really good team. It's just the
charge the better, I really believe, And I've always been
saying this the whole off season. I thought they were
gonna win a division.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, I've thought they would too. But it's just it's
gonna take people while to buy into the fact they're
really this good. And then we'll see how they how
they hang out with how they play with some of
these injuries. As you lose Khalil Mack and for a
period of time we don't know how long, at least
four weeks, how does that affect their defense? What about
the Packers? Uh, Micah Parsons by the way, off the
(33:23):
injury list for first time since he's been a Packer
there too, and oh but both home games. How big
a believer are you into the Packers.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
I mean a big, a big believer. And then you know,
as far as Micah, he's going to go out there
and make his plays, right, He's going to go out
and do what he do what he does. But look
at those plays he mays, and look at the rest
of the sidelines and what he the morale he's doing
for that team. To have a guy like that out there,
it can be a game change and turn plays around
at any given time. It makes that whole entire team better.
(33:54):
I remember his first sack that he had in his
first game. You look at that sideline, them dudes are
going crazy. I mean, it's just he brings that level
of intensity and excitement across the board man and you know,
of course Dallas is not gonna look good right now.
But unless one of those draft extra draft picks they
got turned out to be something. But Micah is single
handedly can can help these guys get to the playoffs
(34:17):
this year.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And further, Okay, we're watching the Dolphins to night. They've
got some dysfunction. Uh, they got some issues there is
it fixable?
Speaker 4 (34:30):
In my opinion, I don't think Mike mcdone, Mike McDaniel's
making through the season I don't. I don't see him
making it during the season. I think to Tyreek Hill,
by week three or four, whatever the trade deadline is,
is going to be on the trading block, and not
because he can't play. It's just that I think there's
so many problems in that on that team right now
that they're going to be looking to get something for
(34:51):
him while he's still you know, kind of uh a
point of interest, right because if you can, if you
let this season keep going on and there's so much dysfunction,
Mike McDaniels go out there. You don't let Tyreek. He'll
go to a team, but we can go out and win.
His value is going to go down after the season.
So I, in my opinion, I just don't see Mike
(35:12):
McDaniels making it through the entire season.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
All right. And then what about the Bills?
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Is this the year it has to be the look
every great team when you got a really good team,
you got about a three or four year run, and
that happened, you know, it was us from the Charges
two thousand and six twenty ten, the leaders of doom,
leaders of boom back there. The Bills now have been
really good for the last three years, so they have
(35:40):
another year or two max. Before that team is you know,
it breaks up. You know, the GMS and front office,
offense and defensive coordinators might be taking jobs somewhere else.
I mean that it don't look like a different team
if they don't make a run now. So right now,
shot to go get one.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I agree with you again, but they have to actually
do it. This is the Doug Gottlieb Show here on
Fox Sports Radio. Lights Out, Joinings, Sean Merriman Sean Rams
are two and o kind of under the radar, right.
I don't know if it's people worried about Stafford's back,
but Stafford's been really, really good. The unspoken part is
(36:18):
their defense, and they revamped their defense, lost Aaron Donald
and gotten even better as a group. What's their ceiling.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
It is?
Speaker 4 (36:27):
And you know what, sometimes you rather be that dark
horse in this whole thing, right, I mean here we're
talking about the Packers. I think the Bucks are really
good this year. You know, there are a couple of
Chams that's getting a lot of eyeballs. But you rather
beat the Rams that no one's talking about. Because team
people are gonna take him lightly. And as far as
Matthew Stafford Man, He's probably no, he is. He is
(36:48):
the toughest quarterback in the National Football League. This dude
plays or anything. He used to get lit up, all
kind of injuries, played through with the Lions. So if
there's any concern there, I don't think that people should be.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, it's just his back was so bad. I just
kept him out for such a long period of time.
I mean, I think that's what that's the people we're
concerned about. What do you think of Brady being in
the coach's box but also being a broadcaster for Fox.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
It's so overblown. I mean, the whole the whole days
of somebody sharing information and going to a production meeting.
You know, people just don't.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
I mean you've You've been at.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Plenty of production meetings and I have nobody's sharing secret information, Like, hey,
by the way, when I was up in the box,
I heard this. That means you got ten people sitting
in there, from your producers and directors and and you
know your stat people. You think that if he's sharing
privileged information in there, somebody's not going to come back
and say, hey, by the way, Tom gave us some information.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
It's just it doesn't make any sense, and so I
just think that people are just blowing that up, way, way,
way too much.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Be sure to catch out like that. Extreme Fighting twenty
seven this Saturday, September twentieth, live from Thunder Studios in
Long Beach, California. Stream the fights live on light It's
Out Sports TV starting at eight pm Eastern Time five
pm Pacific, or come and check out the fights in
person in Long Beach. For tickets and information, go to
lights out xf dot com. Biggest fight this weekend is.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
What probably our main event, Tyrrel Fortune. Made's the number
one powerful pal heavyweight right now out. I'm hoping to
keep this guy for another fight or two, but I
think if he go out and put on a showcase,
he'll be taking off to the USC. If he doesn't
sign a contract right after the fight, He's like on
that level. We got a couple guys, take baby on
his car, Drake Floors, Devin Simmons. We got the next
(38:35):
up and coming superstars in the sport. And look, if
it gets to the chance those guys get a shot
at the USC, I'll be waving them off and tell
them I'm not matching that pace.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
So good Luck.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, I it's it's just fascinating kind of that how
you how you build these guys up, root for these
guys and then want them to get to that next level.
It's really really fascinate what you guys have been able to,
uh to make with lights out Extreme Fighting twenty seven again,
that's this Saturday in Long Beach at Thunder Studios. Last
(39:09):
thing here, Sean, thanks so much for making us part
of your day, Philadelphia two and oh again. But the
offense is just now they've made an offensive coordinator change,
and they do keep winning and they're beating good teams,
but is it can they sustain winning if their offense
doesn't get on track?
Speaker 4 (39:28):
What we've seen this before, the out of them where
we've seen them the straight pass what two seasons ago.
I mean, they should have lost probably six or seven games,
scraping by, and they end up, you know, with a
great season. It's going to take some time when you
got a new offense. According we're seeing it with the lines,
we're seeing it with multiple teams. When you have that
(39:50):
big of a change or drastic change, everybody has to
get comfortable. And it's just way too early for them
to be clicking on all sides, and they'll get it
together because their core, the nucleus. They got a good run,
they got a great running back, they got a great quarterback,
they got receivers, so they can skim by until they
figure it out because they got talent. So I don't
I don't think that's a panic button yet with them
at all.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Shot awesome stuff. I remember. That's lights out Extreme Fighting
this Saturday, Long Beach at Thunder Studios. You can stream
it live okay on lights out Sports TV starting at
eight Eastern time, five Pacific, with LightsOut xf dot com
showing you the best. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Thanks man, thanks for having me.
This is the best of the Dog dot Liab Show
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
It's the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio. He's
a New York Times best selling author, longtime sports un
sports writer, covering, among other things, that the National Football League,
and he's authored a new book that's called Brady Versus
Belichick The Dynasty Debate, which is out today wherever you
get your books are online if you get audio books
as well. Gary Myers joins us now on The Doug
(00:29):
Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio, and Gary, what what
pushed you to write this book?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Doug? I think that, you know, I'm always looking for
interesting topics to write books about, and this one in
particular just kind of jumped out of me that I
think it's truly like the greatest unanswered debate in NFL history.
There's no real right or wrong answer, but everybody has
an opinion on it. So I decided that it was.
(00:58):
It was so intriguing to me, Becau because there were
you know, highs and lows, ebbs and flows during the
twenty years together, where early on it was Belichick, then
it was both of them, and then it was Brady.
I guess just set out to talk to as many
people as I possibly could and put together something that
I thought would be like the defensive look at the
Brady Belichick era, you know, strictly through the lens of
(01:20):
who deserves the most credit?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Okay, so what was the process like? How did you
how did you dive into finding out who deserves the
most credit?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Well? I talked to I talked to a lot of
the players that played for Belichick and were teammates with Tom.
I talked to a bunch of coaches who went against them.
I looked into their legacies and how they were each
impacted by the controversies, you know, Spygate into Flate date,
(01:50):
and how that would how history would look at them
as a result of that, and whether that would change
any of their accomplishments. I think my favorite chapter in
the book really is about Moe Lewis, who was the
Jets linebackers. I'm sure you remember who blasted Drew Bletsoe
in that game in two thousand and one in Foxborough
(02:13):
that began the Brady era, and Lewis has become sort
of a recluse from football because Jet fans and I
think very unfairly Doug blame him for the Patriot dynasty
because they're saying, if he didn't do that to Bledsoe,
then we never would have heard of Tom Brady, which
(02:35):
isn't true because Belchip loved Brady even before he stepped
on the field. But all Lewis was doing was what
he was paid to do. He was a linebacker and
drew Bletsoe at a third and ten. He was running
around the right end trying to get a first down
on a third and ten and the Jets were up
seven with five minutes to go, and he was expecting
(02:56):
Bletsoe to run out of bounds. He wanted him to
run out of bounds to said. He cut it into
side and his left shoulder or his right shoulder, hed
bloods so on the left side of his chest and
it was the most brutal hit I ever seen, And
so Mo is very resentful of Jet fans blaming him.
(03:18):
What happened after that when all that really needed to
happen was that just had to figure out a way
to beat the Patriots, which I only did once and then
happened to me in the playoffs, you know, But so
Moe has become somewhat of a football recluse that he
just he was okay. I had to talk him into
talking to me, but once he once he did, I mean,
he was, he was great. But I kind of hung
(03:40):
up the phone feeling bad for him that a big
part of his life is no longer a part of
his life because he feels like, you know, he's just
been blamed, and it's kind of ridiculous. But that's the way.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
It's so ridiculous, you know, it's funny, Gary, I was
that was the first weekend That was the first weekend's
game after nine to eleven, absolutely, and I believe it
was Sunday Sunday Night football.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
No, actually it was a four clock I think it
was four.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
O'clock, okay, And I was. I was watching it at
Siders in Plainville, Connecticut. You're like, well, why do you know?
Because that was that was my first chance. I was
still playing professional basketball, but nothing was going on overseas,
so I got to fill in for Todd Wright all night.
And somewhere there's probably a tape kept where I said,
(04:30):
Drew Bledsoe's out, like the Patriots are done, you know,
and and you know, obviously I can I can eat
my words today. It's it is fascinating, right. I mean,
he went to Tampa and he won a Super Bowl,
and I I would point out that Belichick, you know,
one year he won seven games I think it was
(04:52):
seven games with Cam Newton as quarterback who couldn't throw
the ball anymore. Right, They won games with less than
one hundred yards pass it, And I thought that might
have been his best coaching job ever. But as you
kind of broke into all of these interviews, what's the
general sense you got from players now that they're kind
of removed from the situation.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
Yeah, I mean as far as the Cam Newton situation
was concerned, I think that really accentuates the point that Belichick,
for whatever reason, was completely unprepared for the post Brady era.
Even though he pushed him out the door, he didn't
have the successor in the building. He wanted it to
be Garoppolo, but I think Jimmy was getting antsy to play.
(05:33):
But more than that, Brady wanted him out of the building,
and Kraft forced Belichick to trade Garoppolo and he wound
up trading him to the Niners. Now it turns out,
you know, Tom is in the seventeen season and the
eighteen season got back to the Super Bowl again, So
he wasn't anywhere near Don and so Groppolo probably would
have left anyhow, But that didn't prevent Belichick from trying
(05:56):
to find a quarterback because at some point Brady he
was going to stop playing. It turns out he stopped
playing for the Patriots because Belichick didn't want him anymore.
But that was I think that really illustrated how Belichick
lost his touch with personnel, both in drafting and in
signing free agents. That he lets Brady walk out the
(06:19):
door without having somebody that said, Okay, this guy's going
to play instead. And you know, the next year that
drafted Mac Jones and they made the playoffs and they
lose by thirty points to the Bills. And then he
brings in I think it was in twenty two, maybe
it was twenty two. He brings in Matt brings Matt
(06:41):
Patricia back and Joe Judge back, a defensive coach and
a special teams coach who failed his head coaches with
the Lions and the Giants, and he brings them back
as Matt Jones's coaches. And you got a guy who
made the playoffs as a rookie, and you're trying to
build on it, and you make his coaches a special
team's coach and a defensive coach, and you know, not surprisingly,
(07:04):
Mac Jones won completely backwards. So I think overall the
feelings from the players was that Belichick was extremely instrumental
in the early years of Brady, and I think you'd
have to be foolished not to think that way. But
as as the years went on and Tom, you know,
went from being okay, only Peyton Manning is better to well,
(07:26):
he's good as Peyton Manning. Then he's better than Peyton Manning.
Now is he as good as Joe Montana. No, he's
better than Joe Montana. As he took those progressive steps,
it became more Bradist team than Belichick's team. And I
think the last seven years was completely Brady.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Stug Gottlieb show here on Fox Sports, Trader the great
Gary Meyers joining us. He's written this new book it's
about Brady and Belichick, the dynasty debate. I think that's
it's just fascinating, it's absolutely fascinating. Is that why Belichick's
back coaching at college?
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Ye? Well, if he wants to prove it. Come on,
without Brady, He's not going to prove it by being
in North Carolina unless he wins the national championship, which
I mean, I follow college football somewhat, but I don't
foresee that happening in North Carolina. So I don't know.
I think he's in North Carolina, Doug because he loves
(08:20):
to coach, and he didn't have anything else he wanted
to do, and he still felt he had the passion
for it, and he knew he wasn't going to get
a job in the NFL, so he took the job
at Carolina. It's the worst time, I mean, as you know,
to be a college coach at like in a major university,
because you got to deal with the NILS and the
transfer portal and you have to re recruit your team
(08:43):
every year. I mean, who wants that when you've never
coached in college before. So it just shows how desperate
he was to coach again, that he'd throw himself into
the most chaotic time in college sports history.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, can I give you another, maybe a different way
of of looking at it. I don't know if I
don't know if it's desperate or if it's arrogant. And
here's how what the NFL people have told me. And again,
you've done research, you've done a book. I'm just you know,
sports radio and now coaching. Okay, so but they said, hey,
(09:18):
you know what Belichick and those guys did best with
They were the best at the waiver wire of anybody.
They could find a guy who hit Wes Welker, you know,
and turn him into a superstar. And I think there's
an arrogance there to where I love Michael Lombarty, he's
actually a family friend, and but there's an arrogance there
to where like, hey, we can essentially every year is
(09:40):
free agency in college football. We can evaluate better than
anybody else. And so we'll be able to find diamonds
in the rough and then use the fact that we're
you know, we're Bill Belichick with the high end guys,
we'll be able to even at North Carolina with less
of a budget. I'm sure they have a really good
(10:00):
budget then some of the big boys. We're just smarter
than you, right, because that was always their thing with
how they drafted, that was always their thing with how Yeah,
we just we think we're better at developing. We think
we're better at finding damonds up. I think part of
it is they think that yes it is chaotic, but
it's every year free agency and they can evaluate better
(10:21):
than other people.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well, the evaluation will help if they can find you know,
it's a cliche, but you know they find the diamonds
in the rough kind of guys. But the ones who
have an opportunity to go to LSU or Alabama or
Georgia or Michigan, and you have to figure the money
will probably be about the same. Then it comes down
(10:43):
to Gobilichick's sitting in a seventeen year old's living room
with the kids' parents and they say, this guy's going
to get me into the NFL. Or are they thinking
I don't want to go play for this seventy three
year old. I don't know how long he's going to
be around, and you know, his reputation doesn't really appeal
to me. I think that it can go either way.
(11:05):
But Doug, I think the whole key to whether he
has success in North Carolina is whether he can find
a quarterback. And I don't know that he'll get a
five star quarterback there. If a guy, if a kid
wants to go play, but he proved in New England.
He doesn't have to have He did it with a
six round quarterback, so if he can, I mean, he's
never gonna find another Brady. But he doesn't necessarily have
(11:28):
to find somebody like that. He just has to find
somebody who's really good. And you know, whether he hits
Jack Pott and gets a five star quarterback, or you know,
finds a kid who is sitting on the bench and
who in Minnesota or Nebraska or Michigan or whatever and
and thinks he has potential and then can develop them.
(11:50):
Maybe that's the way he's got to do it. But
if he doesn't get a quarterback, they have no chance,
because that's just the way the game is structured.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Like.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Especially college football, especially especially Why is Brady still why
is he chasing this Raiders thing?
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Well? I think that, Well, he never wanted to get
into coaching, and I mean the great players never want
to get into coaching because the hours are too long.
I mean, you know that's how long those hours are.
And he wanted to be involved in football. And I
don't know where the relationship with Mark Davis started, but it.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Almost started when he was leaving and he wanted to
go to the Raiders, right, and at at the time
the Raiders had who is Derek Carr and they didn't
want to get rid of Derek Carr.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Well, I think that Mark Davis did want him, and
Glutton didn't.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Drutin didn't correct.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yeah, but I don't know like what the connection was
if there was a connection prior to that between Davis
and Brady, because now it evolved into you know, da
was selling five percent of his team to Tom and
five percent to Tom's partner. I don't know how it
evolved from him wanted to go and play for the
Raiders to agree to sell part of his team to him.
(13:13):
The connection had to be deeper somewhere. I just don't
know what it is. But you know, Tom is incredibly
competitive and this is a way for him to kind
of stay in it. The Raiders are just like an
interesting I wouldn't have guessed. I would have guessed like
the Dolphins because he lives in Florida, or you know,
(13:35):
maybe Craft because he considers him his fifth son. He
would have sold them five percent of the Patriots, you know,
with the other ninety five percent is going to stay
in the Craft family. I never would have guessed the Raiders,
especially because it's like so far from home, and you know,
Tom is a really good dad, and two of his
kids live in Florida and one lands in New York,
(13:56):
and you know, he travels enough for Fox and to
think that, you know, on his day off, presumably he
flew to Vegas to sit and watch the game last night.
By the way, this whole thing with him sitting with
his sets in the coaches booth last night, the NFL
issued some kind of innocuous statement today that you know,
(14:23):
you know, Tom is still not allowed to go in
a facility. All these meetings. The production's meetings have to
be virtual, and that's the rule that how they changed
them this year. Last year couldn't be in the meetings
at all, Doug. Next, this coming week, Brady's got the
Cowboys and the Bears, and He's gonna be left to
sit in the production meetings virtually, and he's allowed to
(14:44):
talk to players on the field. The following week, the
Raiders play the Bears. Is there anybody who doesn't think
that information that Brady picks up on the Bears working
the game this week is not going to be turned
over to the Raiders, who then played the bears. I mean,
this is this such an incredible conflict of interest. And
I didn't think that until I saw what happened last night.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah, the optic, the optics for optics, for optics were
not good.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Optics were not good.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Because because there's there's part of it that I like it.
You know, if you bring it as a broadcaster, the
inside knowledge, but in a in a league which everybody
is paranoid, and considering he was part of the Patriots
with Spygate and all the other stuff. Yeah, it's a
terrible look. It's a terrible look for the golden boy
of the Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
I mean it's Doug. It's fine for him to get
inside knowledge. I mean what Collinsworth and Akman and all
those guys do. Sure they work it really hard, but
they're not working for a team. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:43):
No, no, I get it. I get it. It's it's bizarre. Gary,
this is gonna be really good. I know it's gonna
be another best seller. Gary Meyer's New York Times best
selling author longtime sportswriter, covered the NFL. The book is
called Brady Versus Belichick, The dynast Debate. It's out today
wherever you get your books or your audio books. Pick
(16:04):
it up. Gary, thanks so much for your time. I
really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Doug, thanks for having me on, and good luck this
basketball season.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
Hey, what up there, It's Doug Gottlieb Show Fox Sports Radio.
You having a good day. You're gonna for the next
hour and oh yeah, by the way, after this hour,
you want to download the podcast. You can hear the
whole show plus the in the Bonus podcast, which is
a special hour edition you can hear on radio. You
can only get when you download the podcast wherever you
download podcasts. Hour two is always awesome, all right, always awesome.
(16:43):
R J. Young's going to join us. He is the
He has the Number one show, which is a huge
college football podcast. He's also gigantic Oklahoma Homer Big week
this week for the Sooners. They just demolished Temple. Now
they bring in Auburn right first SEC game and Auburn's
quarterback was Oklahoma's quarterback Jackson Arnold last year. Can't wait
(17:04):
to talk with r J. Young, the guy who was
the next guy is now with Auburn and then John Matteer.
Now maybe he's the next Oklahoma quarterback to win the
Heisman Trophy. As he is, I think the Empire said
yesterday he's the betting favorite to win the Heisman. Dan
can definitely correct me if if I'm wrong, I'm right. Okay,
thanks Dan. Anyway, we'll get to some college football upcoming.
(17:29):
Also got to talk Tush push. I saw something on
First Things First which I thought was absolutely brilliant, and
we'll we'll play that off versus something that an Eagles
offensive lineman said about the Tush push this past week.
That'll be upcoming in fifteen minutes. But it is the
middle of the week. It's a Wednesday. It is the
(17:50):
middle of the day, right, I mean one on the west,
three on the east. You're not going to bed at
seven tonight. It's the middle of your day, and it's
the middle of our show. We have two hours of
live radio, one hour of podcast, which which lands in
your queue at the top of the hour. So we
do something called the Midway.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
He's not getting.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
It's time for stuck in the middle. The Midway.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
The Midway is brought to you by the lg x
Boom Bounce portable speaker that delivers game changing sound from
practice to open runs, power your play up thirty hours
of battery life and for limited time safe twenty five
percent at LG dot com with the code fall twenty
five Bring the boom x Boom where we land on
(18:38):
the on the midway, Jason.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Henk you Doug, I'll take it from here. Dabo Swinney
made news. He went viral as he's protecting his turf.
I guess Dabo, and you guys can correct me if
I'm wrong. They lost a game on Saturday they that
most people thought they should have won, and they're one
and two on the season and the knives are out
(19:01):
and Dabbo took time yesterday to address this.
Speaker 6 (19:04):
If they want me gone, they if they tired of winning,
they can send me on the way, because that's all
we've done is win. So if they tired of winning,
we've had. We've won this league eight out of the
last ten years. Is that not good? I'm just asking
is that good? I don't know if that's good or not.
To win your league eight out of ten years, to
go to playoffs seven out of ten years, to being
four Nations Championships and went it twice. Yeah, we little
down right. Now take your shots, but I got a
(19:25):
long memory case, y'all don't know. We'll be all right.
We'll bounce back. This is a program built to last,
always has.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Been, always will be. And I would just say, if you.
Speaker 6 (19:35):
Give up on us, if you don't believe on us,
because we've lost two games down to the last trade
and we're wanting. You didn't believe in us anyway, so
it don't matter. You wasn't all in anyway.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
If you all in, you burn the ships.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
Man.
Speaker 6 (19:47):
There ain't no exit strategy like you're freaking all in.
And hey, listen, I mean Clemston's tired of winning. They
send me on my way, but I'm gonna go somewhere else,
and coach, I ain't going to the beach. Hell, I'm
fifty five. I got a long way to go. Y'all
have to deal with me for a while. I had
a long way to go.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
I'm just getting going.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
I'm just now good enough to be a head coach.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Now, you guys are the college football guys. Doug, you're
a head coach. Dan, you follow the sport closely from
a thirty thousand foot view on this. If I could
as just listening to that SoundBite, that sounds like a
guy who has made more money than he could spend,
who if you want to buy him out, would be
a tremendous amount of money that is grandkids probably couldn't spend.
(20:31):
And I'm going to say whatever I want, so get
rid of me and I'll probably get a really good
job next. That sounds like a guy that could kind
of take or leave things. But you guys might disagree.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
I love it. I don't think it has anything to
do with anybody buying him out. I think that was
really at the whether it's fine bombs or Internet trolls
of the world right understanding the reality of it. And
again I have a lot to say on Clemson, and
(21:06):
I'll say it, but again my thing is, I don't
think that was Hey, he's spent too much money. It's
he knows that coaching football and coaching, and the one
thing the Playoff allows is for real coaching, which is
what do you look like at the end of the season,
and we can keep getting better. So I think that
was more at the Internet or at X and social
(21:27):
media than it was Clemson administration. Clemson boosters Chase Dan,
what do you think?
Speaker 7 (21:33):
And it very it may well be that that could
be the case with Dabbo. And I actually will side
with Dabbo on this in the fact that Clemson, we
all know this, clemsoning used to be a verb when
you lost the game you should have won, or blew
(21:55):
it in some crazy fashion. That was clemsoning, and that
happened and prior to Dabbo, and it happened years after
the year after year, season after season. Something that you
think could go right for the Tigers ultimately wouldn't and
he turned it around. And I understand that this new
age of college football is one that a lot of
(22:16):
people are adjusting to and Dabbo may seem like a
fossil or an antique because of the new way of
college football. But I hate it when coaches get run
out of town for stuff that they shouldn't have And
considering where Clemson was prior, I think that Dabbo has
at least another two years of goodwill built up for
(22:39):
the run that he put them on. And that doesn't
even include Doug. Everything that you said about the current
state of college football and what is the real goal
at the end of the season. Their loss to LSU
wasn't great, but you know what, it's really not going
to hurt them in the long run. And when you
look at the ACC seems to be there for the taking. Sure,
(23:01):
you lose a game at Georgia Tech new squash, Georgia
Tech's pretty good football team, Yep, those things happen. So
for a fan base that now seems like they're spoiled,
it's those spoiled brats that I think Dabo is talking to.
And I may not agree with everything that he does
with with it coaching, in how they build their team,
(23:21):
but I am one hundred percent behind him and what
he said in defending his record and what he has
done for that school.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah. So let me get into the state of college
football thing. Their deal is they want to stay out
of the portal. They want all you know, hey, where
get our guys, keep our guys, grow our guys, and
go from there. And here's the thing that, look, no
one actually knows what the best way to do it is,
and the best way to do it at one place
(23:48):
might not be the best way to do it it
somewhere else. Now, the one thing Dabo had going for
him that others did not. Was he had, you know,
eight nine years of excellence before you know, he had
a couple like five unbelievable years before the portal started,
before playing players really started. So he did have a culture,
(24:12):
he did have the backing of everybody. He could have
done it a bunch of different ways. We're all I'll
agree with Dabo is like, I don't think they have
the money of a Georgia. I don't think they have
the money of an SEC. And so if you want
to compete at the highest level when you're not at
(24:32):
that level financially, you got to find a different way
because you just can't load up. It's it's like, it's
the reason that moneyball exists in baseball.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
The A's had no chance of outbidding the Yankees, just none,
or the Dodgers or any of these big market even
the Giants, right, they just don't have that much money.
So I just we're all trying to figure out what
the best avenue is for our university. And it's a
(25:01):
trial and err thing. And again last year is a
perfect example. Didn't look great out of the gate, but
they end up coming around and winning the ACC right
and going to the playoffs and ultimately, you know, did
they live up to the Hey, can you have a
high retention rate and win a national championship? No, they
were a notch below talent wise the elite elite teams,
(25:24):
but they had a level of consistency and that I
think he believes is their avenue. Yeah, he's absolutely earned
the right for more time. And I do think I
told you last year, I was cheering for him because
I like that way. I think that's I think you
can build the true college experience. I think you can
(25:44):
bring great culture. I think you're gonna have more consistent
ten win years that way, even though you may not
have a national championship that way. That's the hard part, right,
like the going all in every year for new players
and new pieces. I think the high and the lows.
It's Florida State two years ago, Floria State doesn't lose
a game. Last year, Florestate wins two games this year.
(26:06):
I think they're back to being good. Could be next
year because you just year by year, there's such volatility.
He's building for consistency. I think that's the smarter play.
It's the more consistent play. But again, like you have
to preserve the right. You might be wrong because no
one's ever experienced college sports in this era. It's new
(26:28):
to everybody, everybody.
Speaker 7 (26:31):
I just wouldn't want to be the president or the
ad or the boosters or whoever to be the one
to run Dabble out of town.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
But you know where he's gonna go, right, I mean,
everybody knows what happens. Well, he sits there and waits,
and if Calen boy gets fired, he gets the job
at Alabama.
Speaker 7 (26:47):
Yes, that that seems to be a possible landing spot,
but it should never come to that.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
It really shouldn't be at Clemson. He is Clemson Football.
Speaker 7 (26:57):
And I would also say, Doug that, And I'll use
your sport as an example of someone like coach k
who transitioned and altered the way that they did things
because of a different landscape in college basketball. Sure that
Dabbo at least, if he's stuck in his ways now,
(27:17):
at least deserves the runway for the next couple of
years to continue to really analyze if what he is
doing right now is correct or if he does need
to turn it around. And that's something that you shouldn't
throw away because of two losses in one score games
(27:38):
to one team that's three and nine, and again Georgia
Tech I think is a pretty good football team and
LSU at home. I know that LSU outplayed Clemson in
that game, but still one score game. Like, what are
we doing here if we're running someone out of town
because they're one and two with a combined loss of
ten points on their two losses this year. I just yeah,
(28:00):
I don't I don't like it. I don't like it either.
I understand that there's an ever changing world of college sports,
and I think a lot of schools are trying to
find out ways. We also don't know, doug on how
much the new revenue sharing deal in the ACC is
going to affect the top schools because they are expected
to get more money because of their exposure and what happens.
(28:22):
So does that put the Miami's in Florida States and
Clemsons further down the road than the other schools once
that really fully takes, you know, goes into effect. I
don't know. But just for for Dabble to be dealing
with this and I get it, And if there's he's
said a lot of stuff previously which kind of makes
him an easy target for this, But I'm glad that
(28:43):
he's sticking up for himself because I just think it's
absurd to have this sort of conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Look, I I'd even I'd even link in Mike Gundy
at MI alma mater right where you know, they get
blasted by Oregon, and look, the whole deal is he
shouldn't have played the game. Shouldn't have played the game right.
That game was scheduled in twenty eighteen. Oregon was eight
and seven at the time, Oklahoma State was the top
ten team. The landscape of college BA has changed showed dramatically,
(29:10):
and I think Mike Gundy and obviously Dan Lanning picked
on it made it act to be some negative. I
think my Gundy was trying to be one trying to
set everybody up for what they were going to see,
like he knew. And two, he's actually trying to give
them a company, like look, they're really well coached and
they got way more money than we have. Like this,
This is what he should have said, was this is
what big time college. If you want to build a
(29:31):
program at a place like Oregon where you don't have
great in state recruits, this is what you do. They
have done it perfectly. That's all you have to say. Okay,
But the point is that, like, do we think that
in two years Mike Gundy has forgotten how to coach football?
Speaker 7 (29:46):
No?
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Right, Like he suddenly like completely lost track of how
to coach football. Last year they beat Arkansas and then
all of a sudden it fell apart. Why because Arkansas
beat him up? They lost Like they only had three
or four difference makers. I think three or four of
them got hurt. The quarterback end up in a seventh
year stinking up to join the offensive line wasn't good enough.
But they lost their difference makers to injury because the
(30:07):
attrition of early in the season and they don't have
the money to have the depth. Then he scraps it
and has to have a whole new staff. You have
a whole new staff and you have money for the
first time, and you go out and spend it. You
don't know what to like. People are gonna make mistakes,
make mistakes first time you have money, when you haven't
had money and you have a new staff, you don't
have an identity. How are we gonna play? We don't know.
Guys are showing up late. And then you go and
(30:29):
play a behemoth like Organ and you get pumbled. Guess what,
Ninety percent of the teams get pummeled by Organ. So
you know again, my thing is, if you've shown that
you can win over a decade, which Dabo has, which
Mike Gundy has, you got to give him the benefit
of the doubt of give him a little bit of
(30:50):
runway because this is a completely different era, completely different
and what you're playing is until you see it play out.
And no, if your plan is, hey, we're gonna win
this year and you tell everybody we're going all the
we're gonna win this year and then you don't, that's different.
But you say, here's our plan, here's what we're gonna try.
You have to understand you might be wrong and things
(31:12):
might things might not go well. And that's what's happened
in Oakland State, and we'll see what's happening in Clemson.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
Oh well, I will finish you with this. This would
be my last word. Just to jump back to Dabble
for a second. There isn't a game on their schedule
outside of a home game against Florida State number seven
Florida State that they shouldn't win, and that game against
Florida State is a game that is winnable for them,
so they could run the table. As some people pick
Clemson to win the national title at the beginning of
(31:38):
the year. If they do go on a run, Doug,
you know what we're gonna hear two months from now
is the team I wouldn't want to face in the
bracket Clemson, just you know, like we would have any
other the team you don't want to face because they
would be hot at that time and it would be
funny on how two months difference would change the narrative.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
And that is the mid the Midway.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Sean Merriman joins us, of course, everybody knows lights Out.
Lights Out was the rookie of the year, lights Out
spending all Pro and lights Out kind of have to
spend some time with this year. On The Doug Gottlieb
Show on Fox Sports Radio, Sean, what do you think?
What do you think of the Chargers to an O start?
Speaker 4 (32:25):
Yeah, I mean, look, obviously I don't want to be biased,
but I've been kind of preaching us the whole off season.
You know, I'm more surprised at other people surprised, right
from the same team that that Jim Harball took from
Brandon Selling five win, five or six win team and
took them to the playoffs. So what do you think
is gonna happen the following year? And there's more so
(32:48):
people talking about Kansas City wasn't as good. Kansas City
City is still a really good team. It's just the
charge the better, I really believe, And I've always been
saying this the whole off season. I thought they were
gonna win a division.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, I've thought they would too. But it's just it's
gonna take people while to buy into the fact they're
really this good. And then we'll see how they how
they hang out with how they play with some of
these injuries. As you lose Khalil Mack and for a
period of time we don't know how long, at least
four weeks, how does that affect their defense? What about
the Packers? Uh, Micah Parsons by the way, off the
(33:23):
injury list for first time since he's been a Packer
there too, and oh but both home games. How big
a believer are you into the Packers.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
I mean a big, a big believer. And then you know,
as far as Micah, he's going to go out there
and make his plays, right, He's going to go out
and do what he do what he does. But look
at those plays he mays, and look at the rest
of the sidelines and what he the morale he's doing
for that team. To have a guy like that out there,
it can be a game change and turn plays around
at any given time. It makes that whole entire team better.
(33:54):
I remember his first sack that he had in his
first game. You look at that sideline, them dudes are
going crazy. I mean, it's just he brings that level
of intensity and excitement across the board man and you know,
of course Dallas is not gonna look good right now.
But unless one of those draft extra draft picks they
got turned out to be something. But Micah is single
handedly can can help these guys get to the playoffs
(34:17):
this year.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
And further, Okay, we're watching the Dolphins to night. They've
got some dysfunction. Uh, they got some issues there is
it fixable?
Speaker 4 (34:30):
In my opinion, I don't think Mike mcdone, Mike McDaniel's
making through the season I don't. I don't see him
making it during the season. I think to Tyreek Hill,
by week three or four, whatever the trade deadline is,
is going to be on the trading block, and not
because he can't play. It's just that I think there's
so many problems in that on that team right now
that they're going to be looking to get something for
(34:51):
him while he's still you know, kind of uh a
point of interest, right because if you can, if you
let this season keep going on and there's so much dysfunction,
Mike McDaniels go out there. You don't let Tyreek. He'll
go to a team, but we can go out and win.
His value is going to go down after the season.
So I, in my opinion, I just don't see Mike
(35:12):
McDaniels making it through the entire season.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
All right. And then what about the Bills?
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Is this the year it has to be the look
every great team when you got a really good team,
you got about a three or four year run, and
that happened, you know, it was us from the Charges
two thousand and six twenty ten, the leaders of doom,
leaders of boom back there. The Bills now have been
really good for the last three years, so they have
(35:40):
another year or two max. Before that team is you know,
it breaks up. You know, the GMS and front office,
offense and defensive coordinators might be taking jobs somewhere else.
I mean that it don't look like a different team
if they don't make a run now. So right now,
shot to go get one.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
I agree with you again, but they have to actually
do it. This is the Doug Gottlieb Show here on
Fox Sports Radio. Lights Out, Joinings, Sean Merriman Sean Rams
are two and o kind of under the radar, right.
I don't know if it's people worried about Stafford's back,
but Stafford's been really, really good. The unspoken part is
(36:18):
their defense, and they revamped their defense, lost Aaron Donald
and gotten even better as a group. What's their ceiling.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
It is?
Speaker 4 (36:27):
And you know what, sometimes you rather be that dark
horse in this whole thing, right, I mean here we're
talking about the Packers. I think the Bucks are really
good this year. You know, there are a couple of
Chams that's getting a lot of eyeballs. But you rather
beat the Rams that no one's talking about. Because team
people are gonna take him lightly. And as far as
Matthew Stafford Man, He's probably no, he is. He is
(36:48):
the toughest quarterback in the National Football League. This dude
plays or anything. He used to get lit up, all
kind of injuries, played through with the Lions. So if
there's any concern there, I don't think that people should be.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Yeah, it's just his back was so bad. I just
kept him out for such a long period of time.
I mean, I think that's what that's the people we're
concerned about. What do you think of Brady being in
the coach's box but also being a broadcaster for Fox.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
It's so overblown. I mean, the whole the whole days
of somebody sharing information and going to a production meeting.
You know, people just don't.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
I mean you've You've been at.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Plenty of production meetings and I have nobody's sharing secret information, Like, hey,
by the way, when I was up in the box,
I heard this. That means you got ten people sitting
in there, from your producers and directors and and you
know your stat people. You think that if he's sharing
privileged information in there, somebody's not going to come back
and say, hey, by the way, Tom gave us some information.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:45):
It's just it doesn't make any sense, and so I
just think that people are just blowing that up, way, way,
way too much.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Be sure to catch out like that. Extreme Fighting twenty
seven this Saturday, September twentieth, live from Thunder Studios in
Long Beach, California. Stream the fights live on light It's
Out Sports TV starting at eight pm Eastern Time five
pm Pacific, or come and check out the fights in
person in Long Beach. For tickets and information, go to
lights out xf dot com. Biggest fight this weekend is.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
What probably our main event, Tyrrel Fortune. Made's the number
one powerful pal heavyweight right now out. I'm hoping to
keep this guy for another fight or two, but I
think if he go out and put on a showcase,
he'll be taking off to the USC. If he doesn't
sign a contract right after the fight, He's like on
that level. We got a couple guys, take baby on
his car, Drake Floors, Devin Simmons. We got the next
(38:35):
up and coming superstars in the sport. And look, if
it gets to the chance those guys get a shot
at the USC, I'll be waving them off and tell
them I'm not matching that pace.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
So good Luck.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, I it's it's just fascinating kind of that how
you how you build these guys up, root for these
guys and then want them to get to that next level.
It's really really fascinate what you guys have been able to,
uh to make with lights out Extreme Fighting twenty seven again,
that's this Saturday in Long Beach at Thunder Studios. Last
(39:09):
thing here, Sean, thanks so much for making us part
of your day, Philadelphia two and oh again. But the
offense is just now they've made an offensive coordinator change,
and they do keep winning and they're beating good teams,
but is it can they sustain winning if their offense
doesn't get on track?
Speaker 4 (39:28):
What we've seen this before, the out of them where
we've seen them the straight pass what two seasons ago.
I mean, they should have lost probably six or seven games,
scraping by, and they end up, you know, with a
great season. It's going to take some time when you
got a new offense. According we're seeing it with the lines,
we're seeing it with multiple teams. When you have that
(39:50):
big of a change or drastic change, everybody has to
get comfortable. And it's just way too early for them
to be clicking on all sides, and they'll get it
together because their core, the nucleus. They got a good run,
they got a great running back, they got a great quarterback,
they got receivers, so they can skim by until they
figure it out because they got talent. So I don't
I don't think that's a panic button yet with them
at all.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Shot awesome stuff. I remember. That's lights out Extreme Fighting
this Saturday, Long Beach at Thunder Studios. You can stream
it live okay on lights out Sports TV starting at
eight Eastern time, five Pacific, with LightsOut xf dot com
showing you the best. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Thanks man, thanks for having me.
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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