THE BEST OF THE WEEK OF THE DOUG GOTTLIEB SHOW

On this edition of the Best of the Week Of the Doug Gottlieb Show: Doug weighs in on Shedeur Sanders and his NFL debut. Doug welcomes former Chargers General Manager Tom Telesco onto the show to talk about Shedeur Sanders, the Eagles and all of the headlines around the NFL today.

On this installment of "Tuesday Morning Quarterback", Doug and the crew share the NFL stories that were largely ignored on Monday.

Doug does a breakdown of the last 25 years of the Raiders' failures.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching f as R stuck
Gotleeb Show you listen to Fox Sports Radio. So, uh,

(00:24):
Shore Sanders got to play. It wasn't very good. It
wasn't very good.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Here's Shore Sanders talking about his first naps in the
NFL game.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
First and foremost fun to thank God from giving me
the opportunity to get out there. That's all you could
ask for, honestly, the chance to get out there, get
your feed wet, to experience how it feels, you know,
to even be out there with the team. We have
the first group with everybody, so I'm truly he was excited.

(01:02):
It was a rough day overall, but the thing that
I was excited about is just being able to get
out there. You know, it's the first time I got
hit like since since my last game at Colorado, So
just having that feeling bad, you know, it's good.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yep, no, I get it. It is good. It's definitely good.
He was four of sixteen through a bad pick, looked overwhelmed.
Here's Rex Ryan on ESPN earlier today commenting on Shador

(01:40):
and what he was doing after the game.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
He's got to get over himself too, Like he's there
by himself on the.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Bench at the end of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I've never seen I've seen it in the seventh game
of World Series. When you lose a game or whatever.
This is a game, is a pillow fight game. Nobody cares.
He cares back, Yeah, did he care? Or are you
trying to make it a show and make it about yourself.
You've got a guy over there that, by the way,
is a two time MVP right there, Lamar Jackson. He
was looking for you. He was looking for you right there.

(02:10):
Why didn't share a moment with him? All right? All right,
share a moment with Lamar? Be looking all over for you.
They get in there with your teammates. These are your teammates,
all right, These are your teammates, and talk about I'm
not comfortable losing. You think anybody in that locker room
is they better not be?

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah? I just I don't know, like, look, we maybe
I compartmentalize things better than other people. Okay, I didn't
like to watch ACT. I definitely knew, you know why
he didn't get drafted. I didn't think it was a

(02:51):
crime against humanity that he fell in the draft or
the whole ACT or trying to determine and many things
he said. But what you can't do, or I don't
think you can do, is factor in those things, even
in the preseason whatever. You know, the the miming answers,
and just let's just take yesterday. Okay, he was bad.

(03:14):
It was awful. It looked it was kind of sad
to watch. Okay, but after the game in when you
play your first NFL game and you don't play well
and you're just sitting there and it happens really really fast.
I'm sure he's sitting there with his helmet in his hand,
he's listening, or he's got his helmet on, he's listened
all to play calls, honestly, and you're in and you're like,
I've waited my whole life. And then you get in

(03:36):
there and you're terrible and your team loses again. It
comes at you really fast, and you need it a minute.
I'm not holding that against him, nor will I sit
here and say definably this is who he is as
an NFL quarterback. I've never been so infatued with Shador

(03:59):
Sanders that I wanted to claim racism or the things
that everyone's against him or whatever. What I can tell
you is when you're a coach of somebody at his age,
and I coach people at his age, I have a
player who right now, if you saw him play like
he is not a very good basketball player, why would
you have recurrred him, sign him, And yet everybody wanted him,

(04:24):
me especially, and my old staff were like, he didn't
play this way. It's just confidence can be shattered and
hard to rebuild. And that process of trying to win
a game while a player you're playing is trying to
regain his confidence or gain his footing, it can be

(04:45):
a very very difficult process. So this may surprise you,
but I'm going to tell you it's not the end
of the world or the end. I've never been a
Shador is the greatest. He's got to be out there.
He's got his laws, he holds them all too long,
doesn't have a super strong arm. He is really accurate.
He's he's mobile ish, but he's People think because he's

(05:06):
Dion's son that he's that type of athlete. He's not.
But he does have clever mobility in the pocket. And
he was awful. He was bad. It wasn't good. But
he'll get more opportunities and either he gets better and
he'll get more or he plays this way and we

(05:28):
won't see him much longer in the NFL. Is that
two matter of fact? Dan Byer should I bring in
the baggage of his actions and people acting like he
should have been the number one overall pick and whatever
and and and this is the in your face he
stinks Like I thought, he played poorly, but again, we've

(05:48):
seen lots of quarterbacks come in cold first start and
not play well. I get I'm not I'm not gonna
be crazy and over wreck, but I could be wrong,
and it could not go in line with how much
we've talked about him previously.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yeah, I think that that's fair.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
I don't know how you could expect anything from him,
to be honest, considering the lack of practice snaps that
he got with the first team. I don't know how
anybody succeeds in that situation, maybe a fifteen year veteran
can come in and it's no problem, But for someone
who's a rookie in the National Football League, there's no
way that they could succeed. He had what four completions.

(06:25):
One of the incompletions, if I mean, if it's just
a little bit more on target, they maybe score a
touchdown and tie the game. So I would take the
positives from that throw. But to answer your question, I
think you're doing the right thing because I didn't realize
it until it was pointed out that he didn't shake
hands and didn't go off in talk with Lamar Jackson.

(06:49):
And I do think that that stuff is weird. So
you're doing a much better job of separating what you
think than what I am.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
I'll just again, and maybe I'm personalizing too much, And
I understand if people think it's not the same or
you don't care. Whatever. Thursday night, we go to play
Saint Thomas. I'm friends with Johnny Tower. He's the coach.
He's a great guy. He's kind of a mentoring you know.
I think he's got a doctorate whatever. He's brilliant dude.
So we play poorly. I have a player suffer a

(07:20):
gruesome injury and after the game, like I just I
want I have to go to the hospital. And two,
I'm just trying to figure out my team and my
own job. And so even sent me a text checking
in on the kid that was hurt, and I was
a little short with him for talk with him yesterday.
And again I know that's not how he normally would be,
but the context of the situation which we played poorly,

(07:43):
I was upset, and I was trying to kind of
get my balance and then trying to figure out what
I need to do protocol with this kid, how to
manage my own emotions with that deal. Right, So the
point is maybe I I've built in more empathy than
I should, but I do know that, guys, you I

(08:03):
have a player's name's Justin Allen, and we'll talk about
the sum in the pod. He was a star in
Division three, star twenty six points a game, Carnegie Mellon.
So we play against Bradley in an exhibition and Dan,
he was just so nervous, so nervous, and then we
played Kansas and like, you know, you got to think

(08:23):
to yourself, like you've been playing at a slightly above average.
When I'm saying about average, I'm talking about the actual
basketball team, not the school slightly above average Division three school.
And now you're playing at Kansas, right, And so for me,
like I walk in and you know, like I think
my team and my players and how I coach, Like
I've been through all this stuff as a player and

(08:44):
a broadcaster, so it doesn't overwhelm me. So I don't
I struggle to relate to it. But the kid was
shook up, Like they're shook because they've been waiting their
whole lives. They get an opportunity, and then they think
they failed and they let the world down, and it
literally takes them like two three weeks to get their
confidence back, and sometimes they don't ever get it back.
And so for Shador, my thing is when you've been

(09:08):
the guy playing for your memory, played for his dad
his whole life, and then all of a sudden, now
he's had to battle and yet not getting first team
reps whatever, and he's not helping the situation. I'm not
denying that, but you go to that, to being kind
of thrust into a game first time ever and then
you don't play well. It's a shot at your ego,

(09:30):
There's no question about it.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
And I am.

Speaker 5 (09:32):
I'm much higher on how he did play considering the circumstances,
Like I don't four of sixteen is not great. Obviously.
JJ McCarthy was one hopping passes to receivers yesterday and
we're still not talking about him as much. Sure so,
like there's I think that for the couple of throws

(09:52):
that I saw Shador make that I thought were really good.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
I was impressed.

Speaker 5 (09:57):
But remember last year, the year before, he was there
to be at the he handshake with Dion and j
Norvel against Colorado State. Yep, he was sure to be
at that handshake.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
No question. Yeah, suddenly disappears. I get it, I get it.
You cult, you know, it does become a bad look
when you factor all that in Tom Telesco in a moment.
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(10:25):
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Speaker 6 (10:28):
Mark Andrews under center, takes a snap, wheels.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
Always God rolls on his own.

Speaker 7 (10:33):
He's of the thirty Andrews of the twenty ten five
touch down Ravens.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Oh, what a creative call.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
And Mark Andrews goes from the push push to the
big man sprint.

Speaker 6 (10:47):
Now the Ravens have the lead.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
That helped my fantasy team as well, the fake Bush,
fake Bush push counter where Mark Andrews runs it in
for a touchdown. It's the Doug Gottlieb Show here on
Fox Radio. It's a Monday that means we get to
catch up with former GM of the Chargers for eleven
years and the Raiders last year. He's a friend of Doug,
a friend of the program. He's Tom Telasco. He joins

(11:12):
us on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports Radio.
Let's start off with the most discussed fifth round pick,
potentially fourth string quarterback in the history of the universe.
Obviously the stats look bad, but what were your thoughts
as a GM watching Shador Sanders in villain duty yesterday?

Speaker 8 (11:31):
Yeah, I'm sure there'll be no irrational rants or analysis
of Sagar Sanders performance today, But just for contact The
first thing I thought of was justin Herbert's first appearance
with his rookie year, because if you remember, I'm sure
you do, Like he didn't know until thirty seconds before
kickoff he was going to be playing in that game.
And this is week two of the season. He had

(11:51):
taken probably no first team reps a week one or two.
He maybe took a couple in training camp, but not
a lot. And this was during COVID, so there are
no preseason games, so his teammates and coaches literally had
never seen him play live until at first drive against
the Chiefs. So it's not unusual for a backup quarterback
not to have a lot of work during the week.

(12:11):
That's normal, and I mean it shows. I mean he
got in the game and Baltimore has an excellent defense,
they're smart, They've brought a lot of pressure against them,
and he did what he could. I think this is
going to work out perfect for Cleveland because now he'll
get a full week of practice and they're gonna get
a glimpse of what maybe he can do, so they
can kind of do what they have for the future.

(12:31):
But realistically, it doesn't matter at quarterbacks for Cleveland, whether
it's Flacco, whether it's still in Gabriel, whether it's Trador,
whether it's the legendary Bernie Kosar. Their offense just doesn't
have the infrastructure right now on the offensive line at
the still positions to be competitive yet so they will
in the future. They have a lot of AMMO. They
had an awesome draft last year, but right now there

(12:54):
just isn't enough on offense around him, matter who the
quarterback is right now to be productive.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
I get that completely. Of course, there's no room for
rational analysis of this, but in our most rational sense,
right you have to watch for traits or things that
you can grow on or if the he just doesn't
have it right. Granted, limited sample size, no worktime with
the first group, and the first group isn't that good.

(13:20):
But I mean, obviously you're going to get more reps
and a deeper look. But with half a game in
what do you think.

Speaker 8 (13:30):
He showed a couple of throws which you saw in
college that piques your interests, Like he can stand in
the pocket, you can stand tall, he can deliver, he's
got a strong arm. He saw that on the one
deep dig to Fan and it was a great throw.
But you also saw the same thing as saw on
college that that he's gonna have to work out of
is big holding onto the football in the pocket. They're

(13:51):
trying to back out the backside of the pocket, which
is almost impossible for any any quarterback to do unless
you're Mahomes. Now, there were some snatch yesterday that really
he could not step up because there's so much pressure
coming in the middle. But he does have that that
trait that has to improve as far as being able
to in a normal pocket, be able to step up
against the pressure and not bail out the back end.

(14:12):
But that's gonna take some time. It takes practice, it
takes development. But you did see some throw yesterday that
you know there's a reason why he was a highly
productive college quarterback. So you have to keep building on that.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Okay, let's let's discuss the Lions and their offense. It's
just a disaster last night against the Eagles. It's interesting though,
because here in Green Bay, you know, the entire week
is Matt Lafour is so conservative. What is Matt Lafloor doing.
You gotta let Jordan Love throw the football, and of

(14:46):
course he does against the Giants and looks straight, but
then you see that same Eagles defense when the Lions
try and throw it, and you know you got no
time at all for Jered Goff none. So again, my
thing is, how much said this last two weeks is
really the Eagles defense as much as the offenses that
they're going against.

Speaker 8 (15:05):
That's a great point, douguse. I was just looking at
the Eagles defense. They did not start off the year well,
but they've kind of progressed and improved. And every year
is a different year, so you got to try and
figure out, hey, what are we this year, and you
saw the last two weeks that's that's what they are.
I mean, their their defensive front is very very difficult
to play against, and and and it helps when you

(15:27):
play the Lions right now, the Lions, this is not
the same offensive line the Lions had last year. So
their interior, two guards and center are either new players
or a player that's been moved. And it showed up
last night. The Philly front just dominated them. And it
just felt like from a Detroit offense point of view,
and this is very subjective, it just felt like they
were calling plays but not really running an offense. If

(15:50):
that makes any offense just no.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
There's there's there's there's a rhythm to it. There's a
there's a rhythm to it. Yeah, so I'll give you,
let me give you, let me give you the basketball.
I completely see it. Can I honestly most times I
would say ah, But I paid attention to it because
you know, it's one of the things that that I've
run into as a coach, which is you know i've
I did last year, I did everything with the offense,

(16:13):
you know, and called all the plays. This year, I
have a really really accomplished coach helping me with the offense.
But I have there's a rhythm to how I believe
it should should play out. You know, we run a
bunch of our sets in the first half, and I'm
looking for how they're guarding it, so we have different
counters for when we need a bucket in the second half.
But again, it's it's the the best of the best

(16:34):
play callers. They have a there's a rhythm and a
feeling to it, and they know how to get everybody
involved and how to how to you know, go north,
go go north south for a bunch of the game,
only like you go east west. I feel like that's
that's where Dan Campbell, that's where it's missing. Where he's
There's nothing wrong with the plays that he's calling, but
the execution and timing and overall rhythm of it is

(16:57):
is very off.

Speaker 8 (16:59):
I see the exact same thing, and we haven't seen
golf play like that in years, and certainly hasn't played
like that with the Lions, where he just I mean
he couldn't get the ball out. He's dirting the ball,
take the weather out of it, but there was just
no rhythm or feel to it. And there's too much
talent at the skilled position is there to play like that.
So obviously they made the offensive coordinator change. I thought

(17:21):
they were doing okay.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
Earlier in the year.

Speaker 8 (17:23):
I thought it would take some time with the new
coordinator to really get their identity. It doesn't happen overnight.
But I also trust Dan Campbell because he's shown that
he has a good pull for their football team. But
it's just it didn't look right last night. I think
the offensive line had something to do with that, and
the Eagles had a lot to do with that, but
there was just no fueler rhythm to the.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Offense, none whatsoever. Doug Gottliebschel you're on Fox Sports Radio.
Tom t Leasco is our guest. Of course, he's a
former jaim manager of both the Chargers and the Raiders. Okay,
what happened to Sam Donald?

Speaker 8 (17:59):
Sam Donald ran into a big time defense yesterday, and
actually both defenses were outstanding. But that was probably probably
the biggest thing that I saw yesterday as far as
how one team is going to play another. So, the
Seahawks played a lot this year with multiple tight ends
and on early downs they throwing the ball a lot
out of those multiple tight ends sets. So Chris Julioho

(18:21):
was a defensive coordinator for the Rams and does an
outstanding job. They played a lot of nickel and a
lot of dime on early downs, which is typically what
you wouldn't want to do. You don't want to get
in that big versus little where they're big, you're little,
and if they run the ball, you're in a disadvantage.
But they went heavy nickel, heavy dime. They played a
lot of safeties rather than extra corners, and it really

(18:41):
helped kind of shut down the passing game, and shut
didn't shut down the exposive plays, it really limited it.
I just thought it was a great game plan and Sam,
you know, he's he's doing outstanding job this year with
exposive plays with big throws, but he always has an
achilles heel against some pressure that he'll still take chances

(19:02):
for his pressure and he throws picks and he saw
that yesterday. Not enough to worry about. These were two
of the best teams in the league play yesterday and
two out stained and defensive. But I just thought Chris
shul that had a great game plan to play against
the Seahawks. And we'll probably if the other team start
to try and copy that, and now you know, see
I don't have to encounter. But I thought that was
a really interesting way how they played the Seahawks.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
S Doug Gottlieb show here on Fox Sports Trader. That's
the voice of Tom to LESCo, long time gentle manager
in the National Football League. It was nineteen All the
Chiefs have the ball and you're like, man, how many
times have I seen this before? Pat Mahome is going
to win this game? Turns out it's the Broncos who

(19:45):
end up getting win. What did you see in the
Broncos late win over their ASC West rival?

Speaker 8 (19:53):
Well, like you said, I mean, it's a close game,
so I wouldn't you know, I'm not ready to put
Kamas City in the coffee yet. That was, you know,
tight throughout, and I thought Kansas City's defense, I mean
they hung in there, really held them, held Denver to
field goals, not touchdown. They just didn't get enough stops.
But Denver's defense is one of the best in the league.
Their front, the defensive front, is one of the best

(20:14):
in the league. And unfortunately for the Chiefs on the
other side, their weakness is the offensive lineup, pass protection
and certainly on the edges. So that was a that
was a mismatch really all day for the Broncos pass
rushers and and that showed up again in the game.
But again, it's tight, it's close. Chiefs won a lot
all these games, or majority of them last year. This

(20:35):
year not quite the same. And the Broncos have a
great formula right now. They have Broncos have one of
the best offensive lines in the league. They have a
great defensive line. And when you can play well in
the trenches on both sides, that that kind of leads
to consistency, and that's what we're seeing. The record shows
that as far as how they're playing and bow next stay.
The Broncos relied on him yesterday, especially in the second half,

(20:56):
and he came through. But to me, it was really
about Olne d line yesterday and the Broncos just said
more up front against the Chiefs offense line.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, yeah, I I I tend to tend to agree
with you. What do you think happens with Kyler Murray? Right? Like,
Jacob was set through for a million yards yesterday, but
really ineffective in comparison, and you know, he had the
two picks and they had they had another fumble as well.

(21:25):
But the fact that the Cardinals have said, you know
that even if healthy, he wouldn't be the starter. What
happens with the Kyler Murray?

Speaker 8 (21:36):
Well, if it's not Kyler, then who? And I know
that GM and head coach weren't there when when Kyler
was drafted. But I love Jacoby Brissette, but I love
him in a role. And you and I can both
sit here and we know that he's Yeah, he's an
excellent backup. But if it's not Kyler Murray, okay?

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Who?

Speaker 8 (21:56):
And and are you going to be drafting high have
to draft a quarterback this year? Possibly? And even if
you are, there aren't that many this year. Okay, so
you've got the draft that's going to be light, and
then in free agency, very few starters. You know, legit
starters come out in free agencies, so they're gonna have
to make a decision there. I think Kyler still has
plenty of talent. And it's again it's a new regime.

(22:19):
But I'm just not ready to give up on him yet.
He's too athletic, he's got a strong arm, he can
make a lot of plays outside the pocket. He's hard
to prepare for. They gradually upgrade the talent on that team.
But again, like if you want to move on from him,
where are you going to go? And right now, there
aren't a lot of places to go.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
No, No. Bryce Young obviously struggled last year, lost his
job for a little bit, got it back statistically yesterday
his best day as a pro. Four to forty eight,
three touchdowns known receptions. Where are you on Bryce Young
long term with the Panthers.

Speaker 8 (22:54):
I'm just not sure yet. I know you put up
a great amount of yards yesterday. I had to hit
a very nice game, you know against the Falcons defense
that's been up and down but two weeks ago the
Panthers got to win against the Packers and you know,
Bryce through FO one hundred yards and less than fifty
percent completion. So it's been a little bit up and down.
I think Dave kanalas quietly has done more with less

(23:15):
any coach in the NFL this year. He's do an
amazing job with the whole team. And defensively, j Everew
has done a great job. I mean, they had one
of the worst defenses in the league last year and
I didn't think they did a lot to improved first
l wise over the over the offseason, and they're balling
out right now. So with with I just don't know

(23:37):
at the quarterback spot with Bryce Young, is he the
guy now? If he has enough talent around him, which
they've gotten better, maybe he's got a chance. And he
shows something yesterday. But just with the with the size,
it just it shows up a lot. You know how
he plays in the pocket. Now, he's got very quick guys.
You can get the ball out quickly, but it's it's

(23:58):
hard playing in his size or a long over the
long haul.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
In this league.

Speaker 8 (24:03):
So we'll see, Like yesterday it was great and I
needs to keep coming on and the talent is gradually
getting better with the Panthers. But you know, we shall see.
But you know this can't be a week to week
up and down or you look at the whole body work.
The whole body works to me show it needs to
keep coming along with them.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Awesome stuff, Tom, Thanks so much for joining us. Look
forward to our weekly weekly chat. Appreciate being our guest
on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 8 (24:27):
You got it. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
Doug.

Speaker 6 (24:29):
This is the best of the Doug dot Leab Show
on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
Booming Up America, Doug gott Leib Show, Fox Sports Radio.
I hope you're having a great day. Fox Sports Radio
broadcast live every single day, same bad time, same bat channel.
We've been doing this for a minute. All the guys
are here, of course, the notorious Jay stew Iowa, Sam,

(24:59):
and the infamous Dan and Buyer all along for the
next couple hours in a ride. We got the podcast
which will drop in two hours. We got so many
good things working here. I cannot It's like it feels
like shameless self promotion, but it is. If you don't
promote yourself, nobody else is. Buyer's got the I want
your Flex podcast. It's helped me attain first place in

(25:23):
my in my fantasy league. It'll help you as well.
I got the All Ball podcast as well as the
Doug Gottlieb Show podcast. Welcome in. So there's a million
ways we could go with today's show because last night's
game was so it wasn't even mid It actually lived
down to everything Jason Stewart has said about the failings

(25:44):
of the National Football League right where Wich is like,
people keep watching and it's just not that good a product.
Game did not feel like it was in question. We
can get to a little bit of love for Dak Prescott,
who has I think, without any question, regained some footing
in those top ten quarterback discussions, even though none of

(26:06):
this is the playoff games. They're not going to the
playoffs likely this year. To me, the discussion is over
the Raiders. It's over the Raiders. I have a ton
of personal knowledge of the Raiders. You know, I've had
family members work for the Raiders over the years, and

(26:27):
you know, like Telesco, who joins us on a weekly basis,
he was the gentle manager of the Raiders for a year,
and I think that's kind of the biggest issue the
Raiders since two thousand and two, okay, or really, if
you want to go, since two thousand and one when
John Gruden left. The next year, Bill Callahan took them

(26:50):
to a Super Bowl and they won eleven games since then.
Since then, and we're talking about the last twenty three years,
they've had two double digit win seasons. And here's the kicker.
They haven't had any nine win seasons. They've only had
four eight win seasons. So once you think about this

(27:12):
for the last twenty three years, last twenty three years,
the Oakland Raiders, who are a historic power and a
big name in the Nation Football League, I mean, this
is just crazy. They've had six seasons of five hundred
or better. It seems almost impossible to be that bad. Right,

(27:39):
They're not average, they're below average. Most team in the
league's finished between seven and nine, nine and seven. Remember, now,
only do they only have those four eight win seasons
during that same period of time, they only have two
seven win seasons. And you're like, wait, now, you're kind
of nickeling, Timon, No, I'm not. Most teams in the
NFL between seven and nine, nine and seven will have

(28:03):
fifteen of them. This year, So only eight times in
twenty three years they finished with seven wins or more.
How is that possible? How is that level of bad
luck slash missmanagement possible? And it's not like the end
they've had. You know, they've had some curious coaching decisions.

(28:26):
They did have John Gruden for three of those years.
When he returned, they had Lane Kiffen, but it was
back in the day and Lane Kiffen won four games
his first year, then fired early on in his second year.
They have had NORV Turner, who has seen as an
offensive genius in some of his stylings. His sons still
coaching in the league today. They've had Jack del Rio,
who took them to one of their double digit win season,

(28:47):
their twelve wins season, the ten wins season that they
had in twenty twenty one was won the COVID year
and two. Rich Pasacia, who's a special teams coach with
the Packers, was responding for their late season and really
kind of took a miracle to get them to that
tenth win and get them into the playoffs. It's almost

(29:08):
impossible how bad the Raiders have been. Almost impossible, But
I think it's do I think that Pete Carroll is
in Caple I do not do. I think it's his
first year. I do. And this is the classic house
that somebody decided to redo a long time ago, and

(29:30):
now we've gone through five different contractors and it has
no theme, it has no feel, and no one knows
exactly what it is other than hey, this used to
be a really cool house in a really cool spot
and it is not now, like we do. I'm not
a harp on the negative guy. Do we pick out

(29:51):
negative things? Is that part of sports radio? Of course
it is, But we don't ride the Jaguars, who, by
the way, won this weekend. We had to Tuesday morning
quarterback in the afternoon upcoming, and I think the guys
have done a great job of some topics. Bless you
Dan Byer, Bless you Dan Byer. Bless you dan Byer,
Bless you Dan Byer. For sneeze? Is that another one? Okay?

(30:14):
Do you go threes or fourst Dan?

Speaker 4 (30:16):
I sometimes go five or six to be honest, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
That's most people go three. Don't you guys go three?
I'm a three guy. If it goes over that third seed, sneeze,
I don't make you say anything nice about me period.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
I'll just say this, I'm rare, but I do know
others like me that sneeze four or five six times
when we see Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
It's like a quick rabbit one for you. YEA, mine
are big, like blowout any of the brains left in
your head. Three sneezes and then if I get to four,
just be done with me, throw me away. I'm worthless.
But I again, I want you to think about this.
It's one of those we're in a an era. College

(30:57):
football has taking this on and the NFL, you know,
we still get to it, which is like the second
your season feels like it's lost, fire the coach. Here's
a perfect example, and i'll grant you McDaniels. It didn't work, Pierce.
I don't know if it was working. I get the

(31:17):
feeling it was not. Pete Carroll has one wherever he's been,
and obviously part of it was it was getting closer
to what grew, you know, grew building from four wins,
seven wins, eight wins, and then without him ten wins,
and then he was gone and they lost all of
their Uncle uh, you know, Uncle Moe after that. But

(31:39):
if there's ever been a case for sticking with the process,
not just change for change's sake. I give you the
Oakland Raiders and look, you know, three GMS in the
last three years, hack five in the last five years.
This is what it looks like. This is that's five contractors.
That's everybody has their own idea and nobody's say the

(32:00):
previous idea. And you keep moving out parts and moving
in quarterbacks. Yes, Pete Carroll continues, they decided Gino was
worth it. He's not. He's just not. He topped out
a while back. He's a better version of what he
used to be. And now he's getting older and he's
not protected particularly well. And they don't have great weapons,

(32:21):
you know, And this is what they do. But I
mean in terms of how much the Raiders are talked about,
all the good feelings you get rooting for them, or
feelings of the past, or maybe you don't like the
Raiders or don't like their fans, whatever I mean in
terms of actual success, think about that. The Raiders have

(32:44):
had two seasons of double digit wins in the last
twenty three years. They've had six seasons of five hundred
or better. That's laughingstock of the NFL and it's not
for a lack of trying. It's not for not having
really good people involved. And it's not for an owner

(33:07):
who you know, previously didn't have any money. They have
money since moving to Vegas. They've just had way, way, way,
way way too many chiefs and not enough Indians and
too many different directions, too many different ideas when just
stick with one plan and ride it out. And you know,

(33:30):
it's covered up by the fact that they had the
one playoff year. They've been to the playoffs twice, you know,
sixteen and twenty one, but even two playoff appearances since
twenty three. That's unbelievable, unbelievable. But the Raiders went from
you know, when Gruden was there the first time, it

(33:53):
was only four years. It was eight and eight, eight
and eight, twelve, ten wins. Then he left and they
went to the Super Bowl, and then the bottom fell
out and it was just bad decision after bad decision
after bad decision. And it's almost it's more impressive to
me how many good people have not been able to

(34:13):
figure out the Raiders Rube's cube than it is people
that can figure out the Rub's cube for somebody else.
I mean, Dan, you study this thing. And by the way,
this has been all of for all of our time.
And when I say all of our I mean Jason,
Dan and I. Jason's worked in the business a little

(34:35):
bit longer than Dan and I, but generally about twenty
five years. I mean, you think about it, for most
of the twenty a quarter century, the Raiders have been
a non competitive football team in the NFL. That seems
that seems almost impossible considering the image of who the

(34:56):
Raiders are supposed to be.

Speaker 5 (34:58):
Yeah, and you said that you don't think that it's ownership,
but I do like that's the that's the constant, because
what else could you blame it on. Right, They've tried
so many different things, and maybe it's because they've stuck
with certain things longer and haven't stuck with other things

(35:21):
for as long as they should. And I think that
that's the problem. I think that ownership and Mark Davis
are trying so many different things, and I think that
this one is one that is doomed to fail. And
when you look at bringing Pete Carroll in, like there's
there's there's a point. And I know they're going to
need time to build a roster, but realistically, the game

(35:45):
may have passed Pete Carroll by because the game has
changed dramatically in the last five years, it's changed in
the last ten years.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
All let me let me ask you a question, okay,
And you're talking about his incredibly conservative nature as a coach.
So what you're talking about, so, yeah, talking about yeah,
a lot of that, Okay.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Who's been the best team in the NFL the past
two years? Fair to say the Eagles? Sure, okay, I
mean the other team would be the Chiefs. And the honestly,
honesty was last year in the regular season, the Chiefs
were extremely conservative offensively right, because their offense won very good.
They won bit based upon their defense. So I understand

(36:27):
what you're saying and that it may have passed them by.
It may have, but we have teams being really successful
being very conservative.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
I'm not talking about going forward on fourth down. I'm
not talking about punting it in that situation. I'm talking
about that everything like for Pete Carroll, the whole mantra
for Pete Carroll's entire career has been compete. And again,
this is a small part of this twenty five year
window that you're talking about. Pete Carroll wants to win everything.

(36:58):
He wants to win at everything, whether they have the
pieces or not. So they're likely going to max out
because they are trying to win now. They are trying
to do their things now. I don't think that it's
a surprise that the Seahawks roster has turned into pretty
good roster since Pete Carroll's gone, yes, and trying to

(37:21):
find an identity of being who you are. And this
is on the heels of the reason why I think
that Pete Carroll's brought in was to compete right away
to maybe win nine games. But that's where you don't
want to be in the National Football League, which is
your point at the beginning of the segment of being
in that middle part of like that's where half the
league is, and that would be a success for the

(37:44):
Raiders right now, right, but that's yeh, where they're going
to max out at.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
So that's my point about like with Pete Carroll being.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
There, No, you're right, Okay, but okay, so let's get
to let's just get to the failings of this year. Okay,
failings of this year. If we start with why would
you hire Pete Carroll? It was a weird hire, Mike.
And the guess is, just like anybody in coaching and
lots of businesses, you do the opposite of what you

(38:11):
did previously. Previously, they had a completely unproven coach who
was an interim head coach, a still kind of a
former player, and they felt like the discipline was missing
and the knowledge in the history, so they went with
the most experienced guy they could get, right, that's the logic.

(38:31):
Mind it. Yeah, again, I'm not saying I agree with
the logical. Pete Carroll would have been the hire, and
it's not a weird hire to you and me. But
the point is that instead of going after like a
Lincoln Riley and saying, hey, here's a dynamic offensive play caller,
who give him a couple of years, he'll figure out
the NFL and we may get a John Gruden before
he was John Gruden type of thing, they did what

(38:52):
so many people in business do, which is, if the
previous one doesn't go well, hire the compoler opposite. And
they did, and they did, yes, and he brought with
them a quarterback who had begun to get exposed last year.
Remember you go back a couple of years ago and
Gino Smith early on the year was the feel good story.

(39:12):
And you watched the Seahawks, so I don't need to
tell you, but I could tell everybody else. Gino wasn't
good last year with the Seahawks. It shouldn't be a surprise.
It just should not. You know, last year with the Seahawks,
twenty one touchdowns, fifteen interceptions. They were solid ten and seven,
but not because of him. He was seventy percent completion percentage.

(39:35):
Why just throws he could make and nothing else. Right, again,
this is to your point, the Pete Carroll style right,
extremely conservative, but you do get to a point where
when you have less talent on your roster that at
some point the quarterback is going to have to carry you.
And Gino isn't and hasn't been truly capable of carrying anybody.

(39:56):
And that's got exposed factor in a weaker offensive line
factor and now enough skilled posesson players, the defense isn't there.
And yeah, it's been an abject disaster. Now do I
think that's fire Pete Carroll? No, because then you're gonna
have to start all over. But the logic behind Pete
Carroll's hiring was, hey, we took we were way too inexperienced.
Now we're super experienced, and they've missed on both and

(40:19):
I don't know where they are in the future.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
Yeah, on their super experience to the seventy four year
old head coach and a quarterback who is likely riding
off into the sunset of his career. Yeah, And it's
that quick decision to try to or that decision to
move off of Antonio Pierce, which was the decision to
keep him because guess what the Patriot Way Las Vegas

(40:43):
Style with Josh McDaniels and Dave Ziggler didn't work out.
Your guy Telesco's there for a year. He's gone like
this is it's just over and over, like Gruden gets
pushed out.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
No, that's where you want to say ownership. I will
completely agree with you, and I do think like if
you're gonna give the owner credit, and I would, which
is unlike his dad. I don't think he gets involved
in the game planning or in the player of personnel stuff.
But he is impetuous and he does want to win.

(41:15):
And wanting to win is great, okay, but wanted to
win and constantly moving around pieces and firing guys whatever,
and listening to the wrong people, is not, you know,
is not? I mean obviously I emotionally, I'm sitting there
going You hired Tom te LESCo, you give him one draft,
and then you decide we're gonna pull the plug because

(41:37):
you felt like Tom Telesco was tied to your coach
who was hired before you ever he ever got him there.
I thought, think that's the mistake, right, whether you like
or don't like Tom Telesco, and I do. He did
draft you, the rookie of the year, didn't he right?
His reward was he got fired for drafting you, the
rookie of the year who happened to be a tight
end and not a quarterback who wasn't really available, or

(41:59):
they would have had to move so many pieces to
get a quarterback that they wouldn't have had anything else
on the roster.

Speaker 4 (42:06):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
So yeah, I think the the Raiders are a mess.
The story of last night is that despite all of
our not our because I don't do it, but so
many people on radio and television and digital maybe print
for people who still read newspapers. Okay, the overall narrative

(42:31):
is the Cowboys are a mess. Jerry Jones is too involved.
The Can you say that Jerry Jones too involved? Sure?
Does he have ad drama that doesn't previousist? Sure? Do
they always have a hold up holdout which tends to
bring attention sometimes negative leader team. Yes, but they've done
a better job of drafting. They've been more competitive, more

(42:53):
relevant than the Raiders, not even close. And he made
a coaching change over or the offseason, kept his gentle
manager it happens to be him, and hired Brian Schottenheimer,
who no one gave any sort of praise to when
he was hired. No one did, And yet feels like

(43:14):
they did a much better job than the Raiders, who
tried to clean house again and went and got a
retread coach who brought his retread quarterback, And they're in
the exact same position they seem to have been for
the last twenty years, with no quarterback, too many pieces
that they need, and a coach who probably doesn't fit
the whole rebuild process. How did I do?

Speaker 4 (43:36):
That's that's a very good summation.

Speaker 5 (43:38):
And I understand they've had issues on the offensive line
as well, Doug, but even if you have Colton Miller,
you know Jackson Powers Johnson went out last week against Denver,
He's done for the year. Even if you have those guys,
you're still maxing out at seven eight wins.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yep, yep, yep, and that is purgatory. That's purgatory. The
good news is there in position to potentially draft a
big time quarterback. The bad news is you have a
coach who's gonna draft a big time quarterback and have
him hand the ball off for thirty times a game.
Gotta find the right guy, Gotta find the right guy.

Speaker 6 (44:14):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsportsradio dot
com and within the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
What Up with you Doug Gottlieb Show, Fox Sports Radio.
You're doing good. Great, Thanks so much for listening to
the show. We appreciate it. The Doug Gottlieb Show broadcast
from both Sherman Oaks, California, Green Bay, Wisconsin daily basis.
We will be on island time the rest of this
week and in the next week is I'm taking my
Green Bay Phoenix to the US Virgin Islands never been.

(44:46):
Anybody has suggestions on what to do. Won't be a
lot of suntime, a lot of hoop, but still never
been want to take advantage of it. We do have
one and a half sort of days off, one and
a half days off, so gotta figure what to do
with those one and a half days off. For forty years,
Tyrek has been helping Gustmers on the right tash for how,
what and where they drive ship fast from free back
by free road. That's protection with convenience solation options like

(45:08):
mobile tire inslation tyrat dot com. It's the way that
tire buying should be. We'll talk about the Langkiffen ultimatum
up coming. Brett McMurphy's gonna join us. He's a fellow
OPENHM State alum. He's a college football insider. We'll get
his thoughts on all of these open jobs and what happens.
But we'd like to do this on a Tuesday. You know,

(45:29):
we don't all get memos on what to talk about.
But it is pretty easy to talk about the main
headlines in an NFL weekend, but there's lots of things
that go by the wayside we may have missed. We
get to it with Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon,
Well Tuesday.

Speaker 6 (45:45):
To TI, this is Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon.
Mondays can be overwhelming. Tuesdays are getting to whatever we
didn't get.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
To on Monday.

Speaker 6 (45:55):
Yeah, this is Tuesday morning quarterback in the afternoon.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
Okay, let's get to Dan Bayer. Dan, you sit in
the studio on a Sunday afternoon and I'm sure there's
a million things going on and something that you're like, Man,
I wish I would have gotten to it. What is it?

Speaker 5 (46:12):
Well, Doug, I was ready to take the low hanging
fruit that is Vikings quarterback JJ McCarthy and just really
how awful he has been and the narrative around JJ
McCarthy finally started to see it over the last couple
of weeks of Yeah, I don't care about the fourth
quarter heroics. There's major issues with JJ McCarthy awful throws

(46:37):
throughout the day against the Chicago Bears. But I want
to talk about the team that the Vikings lost to,
and that is those Chicago Bears, because in my algorithm
on tiktop TikTok, I have seen it on X the
Bears getting a lot of love as they are the
top team now in the NFC North, sitting there at
seven and three, and it's a Bears team Doug that

(47:00):
I think that people are starting to really fall in
love with and I'm wondering why, like, why is this
Bears team becoming a algorithm lover?

Speaker 4 (47:10):
And I think it's Ben Johnson.

Speaker 5 (47:12):
But I want to warn people because I don't think
that the Bears are actually that good. When you look
at what the Bears have done in their last five
six games, They've won three in a row. They've now
won seven of eight. They've gotten wins against the Vikings
saved by a kick return at the end of the
game that basically put them in field goal position. They

(47:32):
needed Jackson Dart to get knocked out of a game
against the Giants in the to win and rally in.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
The fourth quarter.

Speaker 5 (47:39):
Heck, they needed the Bengals to make an awful attempt
to tackle Colston Loveland to survive. Against Cincinnati, they barely
beat the OA Jins. They barely beat the Saints. They
beat the Saints by twelve, but they barely got past
the Commanders on a crazy night in DC a few
weeks back. And then they won a wild affair against

(48:00):
the Raiders. You want to talk about the worst of
the worst that the Bears have been beating and doing
so just barely. It's that string and reality is about
to welcome the Chicago Bears, as they've got matchups with
the Packers coming up in a couple of weeks, two
of them. They got the Steelers this weekend, a trip
to Philadelphia on Black Friday. So enjoy it now, Bears fans,

(48:24):
And I'm not rubbing it into their face. It's just
the point of I don't think they're seven and three good,
and I think we're about to find out that's.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Just the case over these next couple of weeks.

Speaker 7 (48:34):
Fools Gold Bears are fools Gold. Yes, Stan Byer.

Speaker 5 (48:38):
Caleb Williams is running around, running for his life at
some times throwing rocket balls, as Mike Holmgren used to
call them, But there isn't. They are running the ball
better like Swift and and young Guy are a much
better duo than maybe we would have thought at the
beginning of the season.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
I think they have a better run game.

Speaker 5 (48:57):
But for all of the tweets that we see Bear
on top of the division first time since twenty eighteen,
Adam Schefter sent one of those today, they're on top
of the division via record, But I don't think as
a team they are.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
The best team in the NFC North by a long shot.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
No, can I be catching I First of all, I
completely agree with you completely. It's one of the things
that drives me crazy about the NFL that we do
in college football, but we refuse to do in the NFL,
which is take schedule into play right. We just don't,
you know, Bears wins are over the Cowboys, the Raiders,

(49:32):
the Commanders, the Saints, the Bengals, the Giants, the Vices.
Those are the wins. Are any of those playoff teams? No, No,
So does it take away from the fact that last
year they couldn't beat the non playoff teams? Listen, it
would be fair to say, hey, the last couple of
years they couldn't beat anybody playoffs, non playoffs, so it's improvement.

(49:55):
But let me know after they play the Eagles Packers
back to back games, how this Bears team looks.

Speaker 9 (50:05):
And Doug, you and Dan are not, and maybe Jason
are not. The only ones that are skeptical of the
Bears are very own Jonas Knox, who's been a Bears
fan of his whole life. I believe a week or two
ago on the Challenge on NBC, here in Los Angeles.
He said that they were the worst six and three
team he's ever seen. So put that into consideration that, yeah,
the record is nice, but it might be fool's gold,

(50:28):
as Jason called him.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Okay, let's get to Jason Stewart take it.

Speaker 7 (50:34):
I'll take it from here.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
The sam, I'll take it from here.

Speaker 9 (50:39):
Sorry to switch them things around on my board there,
slow in the draw man, the back to you, Jason.

Speaker 7 (50:46):
I want the Chiefs to make the playoffs. That's that's
the headline. Here's the filler.

Speaker 8 (50:53):
Okay.

Speaker 7 (50:54):
Last year I talked Dan Bayer into it's an amazing
storyline that we should get paid more attention to that
the Chiefs are going after the third straight Super Bowl championship.
Nobody had ever done it, especially in our lifetimes anyways,
So we should appreciate greatness, and we have great things
to talk about with greatness. Now I need them to

(51:17):
get into the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (51:20):
You guys, ever.

Speaker 7 (51:20):
Watch like your favorite movie or your favorite maybe you're
streaming a good series and the villain that you invest
nine episodes in, the great character that took a lot
of writing and a lot of build up, is just
kind of killed off quickly at the end, like shot
to death and you're like, wait a minute, I invested
all this time for him just to be shot. There

(51:43):
was no elongated scene, no suffering. I don't want somebody
to be a Super Bowl champ or win the AFC
without going through the Chiefs. It seems like, if this
is going to be the end of the dynasty, I
want them to at the very least be able to
defend themselves in the playoffs and get beaten in the
playoffs before the dynasty ends. If they don't make the playoffs,

(52:05):
it'll be kind of anti climactic. So I'm rooting for
the Chiefs to get in. I don't they don't need
to win once they get in, But I think it
would be a good story for the NFL if the
Chiefs didn't come up short and not make the playoffs.
Does that make sense to you all?

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (52:23):
I think the lasting image of the Titans beating Tom
Brady and the Patriots in that wild Card round game
where Brady gets picked off at the end because they
were backed up for a pick six like that is
an end to the dynasty, like to that point. So
when you're doing the documentaries, I mean, unfortunately we've had

(52:43):
like eight on the Patriots already and it's only been
like five years. But the point being is you need
that sort of conclusion. And I felt that because the
Titans beat the Patriots, it felt like, Okay, you knocked
them out in the playoffs, like that's the end.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
I agree with Jay.

Speaker 7 (53:00):
I mean, if you're if you're like the Knicks and
or the Rockets in ninety four, that had to feel
pretty empty. The Knicks went in the East and the
Rockets win in the title. Nobody had to go through Jordan.
You know, there was no villain to hand the baton
to or whatever.

Speaker 9 (53:17):
So Jason, you're saying that the Chiefs deserve of true
villain's death, like falling into a vat of acid and
burning up slowly.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
I get that.

Speaker 9 (53:26):
Just something really dramatic, elongated acid.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Okay, I'm gonna go here, Sammy, go ahead. Dan Campbell
is making the classic mistake that coaches make, which is
he's feeling himself. Feeling himself. So look, Dan Campbell played

(53:51):
what a decade in the Nation Football League as a
tight end, and he's hired obviously very very good coaches.
We talked about Ben Johnson or at least Dan Byer
did earlier. Nowhere in his coaching career has he called plays,
and so his answer to the Lions offense struggling with
a new play caller is to call plays. And what

(54:12):
it looks like is he's a guy who he if
we call it, we call it Twitter play call it right,
if you go on to Twitter, or you go on
to X, whatever you want to call it, and if
it's in your algorithm, you'll see some awesome sets in basketball, college,
high school, overseas, pro, NBA, and you can pick out

(54:33):
a couple of them. Okay, but you can't just run
a couple of cool plays and hope to be good offensively.
It has to kind of all work together. People have
raved at about Dan Campbell's you know, his forward thinking
go forward on fourth down and even if you don't

(54:55):
get it, don't worry about These are mistakes, but aggressive mistakes.
So you factor in the he's going for on fourth
down just because well, that's what we do. He's calling
plays when he hasn't called plays before, and he's not
doing what really smart people, and I think Dan is
really smart people do, which is hire people who know
what you don't know and then let them do their job.

(55:15):
This is the hardest thing for me, you know. And look,
I haven't had the success of Dan Campbell yet, haven't
had it yet. But I hired some really good assistant coaches,
and I find myself during games, especially we're playing a
big game against Minnesota Saturday, asking it, ay your opinion,
who do you want in there defensively? I know what
I want to do offensively, but it's got to marry

(55:35):
with who you trust in there. So we're working all together.
I let them call the defense and switch it. I'll
let them call the guys who I have a coach
who's coached for fifty years. If he says, hey, make
this adjustment offensively, I'm gonna listen to him. And I
just think that Dan Campbell. There's a lot of things
off about the Lions, but the biggest thing that's off

(55:56):
is you took away their superpower, which was creative play calling.
And you had a guy who previously maligned was like
your new Matt Ryan, just accurate as hell, steady as hell,
and now he's a mess. And I think that's because
you have an inexperienced play caller who's the coach's kind
of feeling himself and doing what they do, even though
he's never done this play calling before.

Speaker 7 (56:18):
Isn't him taking over the play calling an admission that
he chose wrong for the offensive coordinator? Isn't this him
kind of midstream admitting a mistake and this is the
only thing you could think of to remedy this?

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Probably probably, But you know again, when you said, hey,
I'll do it myself and then you draw outside the lines,
you know you're sitting there going what are we doing here?
But yes, it does feel that way.

Speaker 5 (56:45):
Remember they lost both coordinators to head coaching jobs, yep.
And those guys will also take their guys that they
have on staff.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
Sure, So anybody they're close with they relate to, they're
bringing with them because they're going to elevate them.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
Correct.

Speaker 5 (57:00):
So like Tanner, Engstrand is the Jets offensive coordinator, he
was the Lion's passing game.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
Coordinator last season.

Speaker 5 (57:08):
That could have been a natural fit, but instead Aaron
Glenn takes him to New York to be It's the.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Best point Dan you can make is we always look
at the very top line guys that go and not
realize that when you have success, and they had a
lot of success, it's not just your coordinators to become
head coach, it's all the other staff. And then you're
caught like, do we stick with the same verbiage? Do
we break in new verbiage? Exactly? What do we do?
And they are stuck because they looked mystified by the Eagles,

(57:41):
just mystified by the Eagles, Sam, what do you got?

Speaker 4 (57:45):
So I looked this up.

Speaker 9 (57:46):
The Chargers are actually slight road favorites against the Jaguars
this past weekend. So when the Jaguars won thirty five
to six, a beatdown over a good Charger team, a
beat up, but a good Charters team, I was surprised
and left me with the question are the Jaguars actually good?
And I think that the jury is still out on that.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
They have nice Well, let me help you with that.
What is good?

Speaker 9 (58:12):
Well? Good as a playoff team. They look like they're
headed for the playoffs. They've got some nice wins. They've
got to win over a Carolina team that has is
over five hundred, a Houston team that looks like it's
figuring things out.

Speaker 4 (58:22):
I know they CJ Strode back.

Speaker 9 (58:24):
They've went over the Niners, they went over the Chiefs
and they've went over the Chargers. And then I look
at Trevor Lawrence, who this is his fifth year in
the league, and I just don't know. He's still a mystery.
He doesn't have any three hundred yard passing games this year.
He has six games with just one touchdown pass and
he has one game with three touchdown passes, but that
was a loss. So he's he's not he's in the

(58:47):
let's see he's in. Just looking at my mini tabs
open here, I'm just gonna say he's well. On a second,
he's bottom half of the league in touchdown passes, he's
bottom half of the league in interceptions, he's half in
passing yards, and then his quarterback rating is pretty low.
So the Jaguars are a mystery because you don't have

(59:07):
Liam Cohen has doesn't have a long track record as
a head coach. Obviously, Trevor Lawrence is up and down,
and the running game is good. But I just I
wonder this, what if you took Daniel Jones from the
AFC South leading Indianapolis Colton, you put him on the Jags,
and you put Trevor Lawrence on the Colts with that
offensive line and Jonathan Taylor. What kind of result would

(59:28):
you have? Because when he was coming out of when
Trevor Lawrence was coming out of Clemson, you know, he
looked like a surefire Pro Bowl quarterback.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
And it's been up and down.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
No, he's one of the highest, the highest rated draftees
we've seen.

Speaker 4 (59:42):
And that was wrong. That was dead wrong.

Speaker 7 (59:44):
The can't miss thing, you can't say, can't miss mediocre career.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
So what do we How would you term it, Jay Stu?
Would you go very unlikely to miss? No, I'm asking.
I'm not being Syracuse, I'm not being a jerk anyway.
I'm saying, like, honestly, how would you guys were it?
Because you're right, like the whole camp miss thing you
can miss? And they did.

Speaker 9 (01:00:07):
He had a twenty five and eight season in twenty
twenty two. Was that the year they beat the Chargers
and that comeback?

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
Right?

Speaker 9 (01:00:14):
And then he had a twenty one touchdown fourteen interception
and last year, I know it was bad, only eleven touchdowns.
This year he's got eleven so far. But what he'll
probably finish with I don't know, sixteen to eighteen. So
he's just kind of middle of the pack, right, now
in terms of his so far in his career.

Speaker 5 (01:00:30):
I think your question on whether the Jaguar that's ultimately
whether the Jaguars for real, And it goes back to
when you talk about who they beat.

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
I think that you have to take.

Speaker 5 (01:00:40):
Them seriously considering the wins over the teams that they have.
Maybe the forty nine Ers weren't playing as well as
they could be now with a healthy brock Party, but
they beat him in week four. They beat the Panthers
in Week one. Guess what Panthers are sitting there at
six and five. They beat the Chiefs, destroyed the Chargers.
Like I understand that the Chargers had a Sunday night game,

(01:01:02):
physical matchup against the Steelers, and then you're playing across
the country Sunday one o'clock Eastern time kick. It's tough
to do, but that's not thirty five to six like
that's like, so at least give them credit for that.
And you've got two more games coming up against you
haven't played the Titans yet this year. You've got a

(01:01:22):
game against the Cardinals that's winnable this Sunday, and you
have the Jets side for the fact that you have
two divisional games against the Colts that if you do
beat them, you could be in the thick of it
for winning your division. Whether we believe in them or not,
the Jaguars are going to be there at the end.

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
Can I just say one more thing.

Speaker 9 (01:01:42):
I was about ready to start fading the Jaguars when
they were losing three of four games and their only
winning there was an overtime win over the hapless Raiders.
But that thirty five to six win over the Chargers,
I was like, wow, well it was very impressive.

Speaker 5 (01:01:55):
Also, look at who they lost in those three of
the four Seahawks and rams up to the better teams.
They actually were beating the Texans. They were up nineteen
in that game and Houston had the crazy comeback scores,
the defensive touchdown at the end. So yeah, a game
that they should have won. They'd tell you that they
should have won that one and maybe would have been

(01:02:15):
more of a case to be one of the teams.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
To believe in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
And that is Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the afternoon. Tuesday Tuesday.

Speaker 6 (01:02:25):
Here you have it, your Tuesday Morning Quarterback in the
afternoon on the Godwin shown who