Why the Bulls dynasty needed to end & BJ Armstrong joins the show!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Doug gott Leap Show podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday three to
six Eastern twelve to three Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for the Doug got Leave Show
at Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live
every day on the I Heart Radio app by searching
fs are you're listening to Fox Sports Radio. Welcome to

(00:26):
the Tuesday Podcast. Um, I'll give you my thoughts on
some Jordan's stuff and one of the kind of unique
parts of his career that I don't know if we're
concentrating on enough. Plus plus, this is a big one.
B J Armstrong's gonna be our guest, So tool James Jones.
James Jones play with Aaron Rodgers. What does Aaron Rodgers
really think of them drafting Jordan's love? Find out the

(00:47):
Doug Gollip Show, Fox Sports Radio. I'm sorry, all right,
that's all upcoming. First thought, let's deep dive deep into
how I'm gonna compare Michael Jordan with other things you
will never see again. Boom Up, America. Doug ott Leap Show,
Fox Sports Radio coming to you live from the center
of the Fox Sports Universe, where Uh, we like many

(01:12):
of you, were on quarantine, but get a chance to
work in personal man Ryan Music and of course Big
Poppy himself. That would be John Ramos and Dan Buyer
on the updates. If you're watching us live on Facebook,
you can check us out at Fox Sports trader dot com.
You can stream us, or you can download the I

(01:33):
Heart Radio app take it with you wherever you go.
And of course, if you missed any of the interviews,
like Bob Costas yesterday, who I thought was remarkably insightful,
and not that he's not like you. Hear Bob costs
Us and all of a sudden you're like him. He's
really good, right, He's kind of disgustingly embarrassingly good. And
you know, in his sixties looks like he's in his

(01:53):
forties when he was in his forties, look like his twenties.
Just annoying, annoying. Anyway, Bob was kind enough to join
us yesterday. Uh, today we got bj Armstrong is gonna
join us, so too is Nate Boyer, who of course
the former Green Beret and uh a long snapper in
the Nation Football League. James Jones, who's a Super Bowl
champion NFL analyst will get his thoughts on the Green
Bay Packers situation. So let's get after it. You know,

(02:17):
there's this thing in sports radio and it's really really
interesting on how sports radio and sports kind of collide
and coincide. And um, look there's other aspects to it
as well, in terms of TV and movies and even
things that are taking place now that are popular now

(02:38):
because we're all on quarantine, there's no live sports, and um,
for those of us who have been doing what you're
supposed to be doing, you spending a lot of time
with family in front of the front of the old
what your dad called the idiot box. You know, I
haven the idiot box. Right. But um, we've we've talked
a lot about Michael Jordan's and I think and there's

(02:59):
this descript description which I think is perfect of Lebron
James chasing ghosts. Right, He's chasing ghosts. And look, here's
the thing. This is a poorly kept, dirty little secret
that I've iterated but now I'm going to reiterate, and
that's that we're never going to have another Michael Jordan's.

(03:20):
There will never be another. And he said as much
when he retired, right, stopped looking for the next me.
I just appeared. But you also have to understand and
appreciate all the things that collided together. First in the
market is something we talk about in sports radio. First

(03:41):
in the market, and it's really really hard to overtake
first in the market. The easiest and most obvious example
is Mike Francesa in New York City. The first nationally
known local radio show, which was a call in show,
which on a on a sports rad deo station that
was really the first of its kind in terms of

(04:04):
seven only broadcasting sports is w f ANN in New
York City. Mike Francessa and Mad Dog russo ushould do
an afternoon drive show, Mike and the Dog. A matter
of fact, it's interesting I'm bringing this up because Mike
and the Dog used to celebrate and go through every
schedule in the NFL like that was good sports radio

(04:27):
for a time. And the famous you know copy of
that radio bit was Jets, will they play New England.
That's a win, it's a win, but the Giants the loss.
It's the win, it's a loss. That's a win. That's
the win. That's the loss. Right, That's that. That was
what they would do hey there, wet you back and forth,

(04:48):
and Russo obviously has gone on to success on satellite
radio FRANCESSA and look, he has his distract detractors. He
did age, he's still doing I think podcast stuff. He
just after he's he's the Jordan. He did come back
after retiring, and it wasn't the same when he came back. Um,
he finally was beaten in the local ratings books and

(05:08):
then he summarily retired. But he's made a lot of money.
And Mike Friends was a former newspaper writer. He was
also ironically a CBS analyst uh college basketball. He was
on college basketball. He's on other things as well. But
but one of the reasons that Mike and the Dog
and later just Mike, you know, I think it was

(05:30):
called Mike Son Mike Friends Show was so popular and
remained number one even when like look, man, he fell
asleep on air one time. He just did he's doing
way too long hours, like just doing it by yourself.
Tower told me a long time ago, man, once you
get past three hours, you're you're you're you're good, you know.

(05:50):
But it was he was first in the market, and
it all coincided with the advent of cable television. The
popularity of WHCH was on a mediorc rise. They were
in New York City. Also in the eighties, you know,
the Knicks weren't great, but they were interesting. The Giants
won a couple of Super Bowls, right, The Mets went

(06:12):
to the World Series and won the World Series, all
those things. Colle So we look at Michael Jordan's and
I don't feel sympathy for Lebron because as we went
through yesterday, like, look, Lebron had missteps and had and
what he did he did knowing full well that there
was a chance there would be detractors. Lebron didn't enter

(06:32):
the Dunk Contest now it's too late. Right now he's
in his mid thirties. And not that the Dunk Contest
means anything but to the greats of all time that
are crazy athletic, right, He's not Magic Johnson. It's there's
like a cool factor to it. It. It doesn't mean

(06:52):
it doesn't mean anything now, right, like, but there's a
cool factor to winning it. Zach Lavine, Aaron Gordon still
arguing or who won last year's competition, right, So you
combine that with changing teams several times over, including leaving
his hometown team even if he had good reason, and
even if he had good reason, he did leave his team.

(07:15):
Jordan did not. Kobe wanted to leave his team did not.
And even if we shouldn't hold it against players, people
will you go through the myriad of things, the decisions
that he made, and you start to wonder, all right,
has he put himself in this Cornerwell, he'll never be
able to achieve George's status. And the answer is probably

(07:37):
the recent documentary, which we've had what six episodes? Now,
I mean this only cements it right from the start
to the end of the Jordan era. There will never
be another because of all other things, including his greatness
timing right, He came into the league at the time

(07:59):
in which the league had covered people forget when Magic
and Bird first got the league, the finals were on
tape delay. Magic and Birds saved the league, and then
he took it to a completely different plane. All of
the things lined up for him. College basketball was at
his peak of popularity. Now college basketball not as popular.
Players don't stay as long, and some aren't ever going

(08:20):
to go to college. So he had to build up
a name recognition before he got there. It was before
Nike truly launched and became the superpower that it is
not just in sneakers but in all of sports marketing. Right.
It's at the advent of cable television, where everybody had
to get cable. There was a certain cool factor to

(08:41):
having cable. Did you have cable growing up? I know
people that didn't like you didn't have cable growing up? Like, no,
what did you do when the president was on? He's
not every chat. Oh, Jordans lined up perfectly with cable
television popularity of college. Plus he went to a super popular,
super cool school, and he won a national championship early

(09:04):
on from seventy people. Bird and Magic had already saved
the league, and that allowed him to play the big
games on national television on CBS and later on NBC. Yeah,
I mean Jason McIntyre, who, of course does a weekend
show for us UM. He pointed out, like Jordan also

(09:25):
benefited at some point later in his career from playing
against the league that was fairly watered down because it
expanded that that's a real thing. That's a real thing.
All of these things allowed Jordan's to be Jordan's. This
was Bob Costas on the show yesterday explaining why it

(09:46):
was time for the Bulls dynasty to finally end. I
can't think of anything that matches that. And you know
a lot of people have said, and understandably, what the heck,
Jerry Krause, what could get possible? With you thinking your
own you going insecurities get the best of You're going
to break up the team? Why didn't Gerry runs throws
the owner over rule him? All about is perfectly valid,

(10:06):
But in my mind, it's better that it ended the
way it did. Did you really want to see them
ultimately lose at some point and he walks off the
court having lost in a final or an earlier playoffs series.
Everything lined up perfectly, even the year they lost, right,
which I'll be interested to see in in seven and

(10:27):
eight and maybe nine before ten, even the year they
lost when he came back from baseball, he was a
little bit rusty. Hey, he got the ball stolen from
in famous ly against Orlando Magic. And they went on
the NBA Finals with Penny Hardaway and a young Shaquille
O'Neil and Nick Anderson, super Dennis Scott, super talented team.
Even when they lost that year. Losing in the Eastern

(10:48):
Conference finals actually helps build the legacy, right, because he
built it up, then he got worn down, then he
walked away. Then he wasn't quite sharp, but he didn't
lose in the finals. So it's cementum xin o in
the finals, much like Joe Montana four no in the
super Bowl, Like these things won't happen again. You're not
you don't have You didn't have social media, so we

(11:10):
didn't dig into what he was doing. You had mostly
a love affair between the media and the star player.
That's why he was so bothered by the Sam Smith book.
That's why he was so so bothered by the treatment
of when he went to Atlantic City, because for the
most part, at that point in time, it was before
we tore down the superstar player a right. That's that's

(11:34):
the story of Tiger Woods, right. Tiger Woods is two
Eras early in Tiger's career, nobody talked about nothing he
did outside of golf. After the by the time he
got to the car accident and we started digging in
to his background, all bets were off, and suddenly who
you were as a husband, who you were as a
person became a really important part of where you were

(11:54):
as an athlete. These things won't happen again. I I mean, like, look,
Lebron James has started a school where every kid, if
they graduate, gets to go to college and he'll pay
for it. And people even in my industry and people
that work here, were like, wow, you know he's not
actually paying for it. Dude, has anybody else ever done that? Right?

(12:19):
Has anybody else ever done? Look, we're just gonna have
to wrap our heads around the fact there's never gonna
be another Muhammad Ali. Like I've heard keep people say, well,
Colin Kaepernick was like, no, he wasn't. Mohammad Ali was
the heavyweight champion of the world back when the heavyweight
champion of the world was pretty much the most important
thing in American sports. That's how big boxing was. And

(12:41):
at the peak of his career he one became a Muslim,
which as much pushback as there is against Islam now,
back then we had no idea about this. It was
seen as as anti white. I've seen as very anti white,
anti government. He walked away or wasn't allowed to perform
his sport in the peak of his career because of

(13:02):
his religious and a political beliefs. That no disrespect to
what Colin Kaepernick did or what you think he's sacrificed.
But that doesn't That would be Pat Mahomes winning a
Super Bowl this year and then saying I'm not playing
for three years or being barred for playing for three
years because of his religious beliefs. Right, it was it

(13:24):
was Vietnam. Like, you can't compare Vietnam to anything that's
going on now. I'm sorry, you just can't. I wasn't
alive during it, But if you study any sort of history,
it's just not the same kids. So so the point
is that while you do feel on some level of
sympathy for Lebron James, you have to you have to

(13:45):
understand first in the market is always going to be
number one, longer than anybody else and more relevant, And
then you factor in even after his career has been
over twenty two years since he played for the Chicago Bulls.
The sheer luck of a documentary and look, is it

(14:08):
the perfect documentaries It told from a totally neutral back,
like no, but it happens to come out when there's
nothing else on sports TV. There's nothing else on, and
Lebron has not yet one with the Lakers. I mean
just the luck of the timing of it. Think about it.
Imagine if it aired at its normal time it was

(14:29):
supposed to, which is during and after the NBA Finals,
If Lebron James had won another championship, we'd have a
completely different look on it. Who would he made? Sneaker
heads in the sneakerheads right? He made This is at
the advent not just of cable television, but of the

(14:50):
sneaker market and of the of Gatorade. Everybody's got a
power drink? Now, back when they launched Michael Jordan's Gatorade
Beat Mike, people used to People used to drink coke
by the six pack. Now, how many people you know
outside of Dan Buyer, I love you, Dan, I know
you love your Mountain do outside of that? How many
people you know that that pop up in a regular

(15:11):
classic coke as opposed to a gay rate of Power
Raid or any of these other litany of drinks. You
have to understand timing first, in the market and all
the things that allowed Jordan to be Jordan's as well
as the fact that he was great. He was magnanimous,
he was he was a people person, and his personal

(15:33):
backstory had been told many times over and been broadcast
much more broadly than any previous generation because of the
advent of sports radio, sports television on cable TV. There
will never give me another all right? Coming up next,
Odell Beckham Jr. Says it's gonna be his best year ever.

(15:55):
Mike still doesn't get it. That's next. Be sure to
catch the live edition of The dud gott Leap Show
weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio Whap. I think
my favorite thing in sports is when somebody tries really
hard to present some sort of positive message and on

(16:18):
the surface you're like, Okay, I get that, I'm come
good with that, and then you look further into your
like God, you miss God, you miss right. I'll give
you the example. So Odell Beckham Jr. Four seas one
of his best seasons, quote this is my time, all right?
He said, Uh, this is a quote I would honestly say,

(16:40):
this is probably going to be one of my best seasons. Bigger, stronger, faster,
this is my time now. First thing is, and I
don't fault a guy who's as popular as O b J.
For having his own YouTube channel, right, got dudes make
tons of money off a YouTube channel. They just do.
By the way, you can download and follow our YouTube

(17:00):
channel here on Fox Sports Radio. But the idea that
you're talking about football, really, you know, I'm not releasing
information but getting people fired up and doing so from
your YouTube channel, is there. There's an there's an interesting
kind of juxtaposition there. And and I understand that he's

(17:25):
talking about the injuries from last season. One. I think
it's interesting he said one of my best seasons. Two,
there isn't anything about our best season. And three, Like
I just no one's ever said he's not big, he's

(17:46):
not fast, he's not strong. Has anyone ever questioned the
ability of Odell Beckham Jr. Has anybody like it would
be like, you know that goes a little faster, he
would be elite. Has anyone said, like, you know, if
he's a little stronger, he would be hands Literally, no
one has anything negative to say about the tangibles. Tangibles.

(18:12):
You got a lot of tangibles, right, it's the intangibles.
And I would say that staying healthy is an intangible quality.
He hasn't been able to stay healthy, but that even
that is not the issue. No one's ever questioned the talent.
It's can he get along? Can he can he? Will

(18:32):
he be okay with Kevin Stefanski who famously ticked off
Stefan days last year. You know that this is the
This is the Isaiah Thomas from the Last Dance thing.
That's what this is. Isaiah Thomas in the Last Dance.
He's like, I made all the criteria I wish I knew,

(18:53):
like the and they're putting it all on this on
the Jordan deal, like hold on. He famously famously said
that if Larry Bird was a black was a black guy,
he'd be just another guy. Now again, you have to
understand that there was a lot of ratio undertones with

(19:13):
the Celtics Boston against the Pistons in Detroit. Also, Larry
Bird was originally going to Indiana. Do you guys remember
that he went to Indiana and then he left and
he's working on like a road crew and they went
to Indiana State and talk him all the way in
the National Championship, whereas Isaiah Thomas is like, I actually
won the National Championship at Indiana. We ucsually won the thing.

(19:38):
But Bird has always been more beloved in the state
of Indiana. Jordan was always more beloved in Chicago, and
and even his best friend, like Isaiah Thomas's best friend.
I don't know how much people remember this, but ramas
did I do? Because we're we're old, right, Isaiah Thomas
and Magic Johnson were super super close. And before they

(19:58):
would play, and this is going by to regular season
and the NBA Finals, they would do the And this
is the most annoying thing that I'm hoping that COVID
nine team will take out of society, which is the
side kiss deal man who invented that crap as a
way to say hello to a neighbor at a at
a cookout. Oh hi, oh, put the fruit salad down,

(20:21):
good to see you. What what what is that? It's
that's that's how I like to say hello, Hi, how
are you? Or if it's a hug bringing in, come on,
bringing in, It's neither. But Isaiah Thomas like he didn't
get that. It wasn't about criteria, wasn't about how good

(20:42):
you were, right, because because at the time Larry Bird
was was broken down, right, he had had the heel
surgeries with the bone spurs, and he had a bad back.
He was a shell of his former self. But Larry
Bird was still on a team because he was Larry
freaking Bird. Right. People respect him, people liked him, wanted

(21:04):
to play with him, and the NBA wanted to build
their brand around the greatest white player in modern basketball history.
That's who Larry Bird is. Okay, Magic Johnson had retired
from the NBA because he had HIV. Right, that's right,

(21:24):
So well, why was Magic Johnson? It was he Peake
madgic John's like, no, but why because he was magic
and everybody liked Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan was the best.
And when those three guys the three most important figureheads
in the NBA or in the modern recent history of

(21:45):
the NBA, I'll go like I mean because the magic
deal was when he came out with HIV. Isaiah either
told some people were insinuated that he was gay. There's
articles you can google whatever they had beef for like
thirty twenty years up until recently when they settled the beef.

(22:08):
This is the Odell Beckham Junior thing. It's not about
how big, how fast, how strong, how good your hands are.
Nobody's arguing that, literally, nobody you won't find anybody, even
the most ardent Odell Beckham Junior haters like can he play? Like,
hell yeah, that kid is sick and nothing he can't
do at wide receiver in football. He can block, he

(22:29):
can catch, he can run with a football, all right,
But there's a little bit of durability question and a
lot of can you get along with the team? What
what I mean? They they told you to shut down
the interviews in New York and you do an interview
with little Wayne and you call out your quarterback who

(22:50):
had won two Super Bowls, who's a member of the
first family in football? What are you stupid? Right? I mean?
This is that That is the mob references that's taken
down a made man, like you can't kill them made guy.
Then you get whacked. That's what happened. Nodell Beckham Jr.
Bye Bye, Enjoy Cleveland. They traded you to Football Siberia.

(23:15):
Then you're in Football Siberia and everybody champions you and
you're like, I don't want to be here. I wasn't
happy when they you know your attitude. They sent me
here to die? Was a quote from you, Like what
are you doing? You're wearing the watch and and and look,
and you're like, want if you don't have problems, were

(23:35):
to watch? That's a you prop. That's basically what he said.
You guys are worrying about the wrong things. No, you're
worrying about the wrong things. Just play football. You're great
at it. Yeah, the dyed hair or the catch, that's
what made you the most popular NFL player. But you
know what else did? The fact that you'll help lead
the Giants to the playoffs. Right there, there's a there

(23:58):
will be a group of people that watch this on
YouTube or on Instagram and like God leaves hayting on.
Odell Beckham Jr. My dog's name is Odell Beckham Jr. Jr. Hey,
because my son was like, that's the greatest football player
I've ever seen. We lived in Connecticut time he has
an Odell Beckham junior jersey. Everybody did. But dude, if
you think the questions about you this year have to

(24:21):
do with bigger, faster, stronger, you're just missing the point,
which is just like Isaiah Thomas. If you think it's
about criteria, you're just missing the point. When you go
to the Olympics and you play all these games, hey,
you do so and you hang out for a month together,

(24:42):
and if guys just don't like you, just can't stand you,
you're not gonna be on the team. Be sure to
catch the live edition of The Doug gott Leap Show
weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific. I'm fascinated
by by some of this NFL discussion, you know, they're
just there's a good amount of Cam Newton discussion out there.

(25:03):
And I think there was a report over the weekend
that he's gonna hold out and wait for a starter
to go down, which in many ways is the smartest
and riskiest strategy. There is a right see what happens
after a draft. I think his first idea was, hey,

(25:23):
wait till after the draft. Whoever doesn't come up with
a quarterback, well, they'll have to come and sign me.
And remember Cam Newton and we were the I feel
like I was the first one to call it. I
call it like mid season when he was hurt and
he was gonna be out for the year. I was like, man,
it's gonna be really hard for him to catch on
somewhere else. And people have a tough time with it.

(25:46):
They're like, wait, he's a former league m v P.
Why would that be? Why would that be? Because he's
a unique fit, Like Cam Newton's not a one size
fits all everybody, even at his peak. Even at his peak,
he doesn't fit every offense, right, He's not a West
Coast guy. He's just not um would he have fit

(26:06):
in with the Kansas City Philadelphia style of offense where
you have to run and yeah, I mean it's a
little bit more of a college field. Yeah, I think
he would have. The problem with that is one, he's
never been in that system. Two, and and that matters
because there's a learning curve there. And he's also not

(26:26):
seen as a guy who's you give an offense and
he'll pick it up. It just isn't. Even though he
played a couple of different systems, you know, most recently
North Turner system, which is more of a dropback passing
play action pass system. He's played a couple of different styles,
but the biggest thing is, like, you know, he wants

(26:49):
to be a starter, and no one knows if he's healthy,
and even if he is healthy, can he stay healthy
between the ankle and the shoulder. Plus there is the ego,
there's the body lane, which which at time is not great.
There's the he wants to be a kind of fashion icon.
Is that really locking like? Is that really locking in
on being a great quarterback? I don't, I don't know

(27:13):
you you you and and the other part is like
if you have a young quarterback and we've had man,
I've had a bunch of quarterbacks on we had Jordan
Palmer said this and he's obviously brother was a quarterback
in the NFL. He was a quarterback in the NFL.
He's not a quarterback guru. And I said, I've asked
him before, what is the most important aspect of these

(27:33):
guys the ones that make it? Do you remember buy
or do you remember what he said when I asked
him what the most important aspect of the guys that
what makes Russell Wilson make it and other guys haven't
made it? Confidence? Confidence And as much as you think,
like Russell Wilson should be super confident, you think Russell

(27:53):
Wilson wants cam Neton behind him. No no, no no
no no no no no. They don't want to anybody
behind because the because dudes go through bad stretches and
the last thing they want to worry about is ever
getting pulled out of a game. That's the last thing. Now,
there are some guys that can go, don't care. Tom

(28:13):
Brady has done a great job of when they had
Jimmy Garoppolo, And remember he apparently got Jimmy Garoppolo traded
him or me and the owner said him, he's gotta go.
Garoppolo has gotta go. M to take. I mean, this
is a perfect example. This is an example. Here's why
you want to know why Cam Newton can't be a
backup to one of these young quarterbacks Josh Allen, for example,

(28:36):
in Buffalo, remember um the general manager and the head coach,
Sean McDermott brought brought bandon Brandon Bean with him. McDermot
got the job first, then they hired Brandon being both
those guys came from Carolina. Okay, so they have uh insight.
They have deep carnal knowledge of Cam Newton. And if
you watch the way that Josh Allen plays right where

(28:59):
that he's not an accurate thrower. He's getting better, he's
not great at progressions and when he doesn't know what
he's doing, he just tucks it and runs it. Who
does that sound like? That sounds like a poor Man's
Cam Newton, right, Cam Newton, in addition to the fact
that he doesn't want to sign as anyone's backup. This

(29:20):
is here is Eli Manning on Daniel Jones and why
he believes Daniel Jones have a better year this year.
I think it'll be easier this year for him to
kind of step up as that leader. Just you know,
last year it is probably awkward for him, you know,
me being there, be being in meeting rooms and and
just kind of the whole dynamic. I think me being
gone and him just he is, he is the quarterback,

(29:41):
He's the guy for him, just to have that control.
What was that sound from? What was that sound from?
Who is he? Who is interviewing? Eli? A serious X him?
I want you to this is so many guys are
working on home studios. Can I play that one last time? Listen?
We'll lead listen Eli Manning. But then listen, there's there's
no oh uh, somebody didn't hit the off button and

(30:04):
and and there's you know, no cough button. Maybe at
their home set up to take a I had this
yeah yesterday with my phone going off with my alarm,
uh to take a listen to the breathing going on
the background, I think it will be easier this time
for him to kind of step up as that leader.
Just you know, last year it is probably awkward for him,
you know, me being the start, me being in meeting

(30:24):
rooms and and just kind of the whole dynamic. I
think me being gone and him just he is. He
is the quarterback, he's the guy for him just to
have that control. It's only like dark Vaders back there.
But the point is, dude, you can look over your
shoulder the guy who's the MVP of the league, and
it's thirty years old, and and look, I believe that

(30:49):
that the most of the league thinks either Cam hasn't
been the same and it will be a struggle to
get him to be the same, or that he'll never
be the same because of the surgery of the shoulder
and the surgery to the ankle. But good luck telling
guys in that locker room. Like you know, Buffalo Bills,

(31:10):
Josh Allen has a terrible first half and Cam Newton
comes trotting on the field just to warm up in
the second half, Like, good luck with that one. And
you may think to yourself, Okay, Cam Newton is better one.
Nobody knows how if he's healthy, if you can stay
healthy too, he won't play for less than starters money.
And three, he's on the downward trajectory and like a

(31:34):
Josh Allen's on the upper trajectory. So you don't take
that chance because you kill a kids confidence, you'll never
get whatever his peak potential is. Alright, come them next.
The best Michael Jordan's performance ever, I'll share it with
you next. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk
lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows at
Fox sports Radio dot com and within the I Heart

(31:56):
Radio app. Search f s R to listen live Doug
Show Fox Sports Radio. Nay Boys about to pop on
with us. Of course, he's a former Green Bray playing
the National Football League as a long stamper. Uh. You
know he's the guy who remember he made Texas is
squad and then he ran on the field with the
flag and you're like, I love that guy, right, I
love that guy. He he kind of helped bridge the

(32:17):
gap between America and Colin Kaepernick during the kneeling controversy.
It's kind of to spend some time of this year
on the Doug Gottlieb Show on Fox Sports radio, Nate,
how are you? I'm a good man? Where are you?
I'm in Los Angeles. I was up in Oregon for
about six weeks escaping, uh, and kind of helped them
look after my parents up there. They left the Bay

(32:38):
Area for Oregon when the lockdown all started and uh,
and then I just came back this week. Alright, alright,
So when when you were in Oregon? Where you like bend?
Are you somewhere wooded? Like, you know, off off the radar? Like,
where where were you? In order you know to give
me specific locations at all? Do I know where? Sure? Sure?
My brothers actually my brother lives in in Oregon and

(32:59):
friends outside of Portland, so I know a bunch of
different It's it's beautiful, beautiful country. Um. Back in the
backyard was the Rogue River, so we were very fortunate
to have that. And it's my grandfather's old place. So
we did a little work on the place and no
one's been living there for a couple of years. Um,
but we're trying to just piece it back together and
take our mind off everything going on as much as possible. So,

(33:21):
were you like Rocky four, like with a huge beer
doing sit ups in the in the farm. Uh, in
the barn. It's funny you say that there was a
gym up in the barn on the second level. Uh
that that's yeah. It's old, old fast bag and you
know old weights thatt. It's like cobwebs and dust and everything.
But I definitely was I was channeling my innerl uh

(33:43):
and and you know it's it's gotta be interesting kind
of protecting your parents, like should I stay away? Should
I be there? Um, give me a give me a
hobby you picked you picked up here during quarantine that
you hadn't hadn't either been doing recently or hadn't done ever.
You know what? Binge watching stuff? I I never I
didn't really watch stuff on TV. And and uh, you

(34:04):
know I don't even have to even have Netflix or
anything like that. So I started watching watching some stuff.
It started, of course, and everybody's talking about a tiger King.
I had to watch that. So I watched that, and
then I just like, you know, it's a it's a drug.
I got addicted. And the king was the gateway. Yeah,
Tiger King was the gateway. And you know, like it's
almost like the it's a it's different but similar to

(34:25):
the Jordan documentary and that like people take what they
see in a documentary as the law, as the absolute right.
So they, like Carole Baskin, no matter what you anybody
will tell you what what proof they actually have because
you saw the documentary, like she fed her husband's to
the lines at a at a White House press conference,
somebody asked the President United States during quarantine right that

(34:49):
we had never had before, if he would he would
he would consider pardonering Joe exotic that actually happened because
of a documentary and Netflix. Well, you know, that's the
power of this industry, the power of film and television
and and uh and media. You know, it's it's crazy.
But yeah, speaking of that or that doc and the

(35:10):
Last Dance is pretty incredible. It is. What what have
you learned from it? You know, I didn't know. I
didn't know much about Scottie Pippen at all, and and
I honestly I was maybe I was a little young
or just naive at the time to it, but I
didn't understand how undervalued he was within the organization. I mean,
I knew he was considered by many to be the
second best player in the NBA UM but I didn't know,

(35:33):
you know, how low, how low he was being paid,
and and uh and and it was this. This is
the perfect example where I'm talking about when he signed
the deal, Okay, when he signed the deal, he was
I think the eighth highest paid guy in the league,
and he had not yet achieved like star status. And
even if the doc will tell you he was the
second best, he was never the second best player in
the league like this. He was not as good as

(35:55):
Charles Barkley, wasn't as good as Pat Ewing or chemalize
On or David Robinson. I'm like I could or Isaiah
Thomas right like I go through all these guys. He
was very, very good and incredibly effective. But this is
kind of like that's again the power of the dock, right,
But but there is there is some there's a little
similarity to you right in the I mean, an unbelievably
unbelievable story to to to let alone forget about like

(36:18):
he was he was, in fact an equipment manager and
an n A A school who became an NBA superstar,
one of the fifty greatest players in the history of
the NBA. That is incredible, right, exactly exactly, And if
He's one of the fifty greatest ever highest tape that year.
That's pretty bad. Yes, no, I'm looking on a team
with five rings. Yeah, but I mean but but again

(36:39):
not mentioned Jordan's signed like a twelve year deal and
he was only making up until the last two years,
he was only making like four million. He wasn't one
of the top thirty paid guys. And and then and
then he got right like it's it's again. It's the
uniqueness of the storytelling. Um, okay, So you're part of
m v P, which is Merging Vets and Players, right,
and this is unbelievable you have Now you have a

(37:00):
virtual event with really really star study roster. So can
I sit at home and watch this? Like? How how
is it's May seven? That's in two days? How do
I watch it? And what is it? Yeah, it'll be
on It will be on Well Vets and Players dot
Org is our website. I can watch it through our website.
Will also be on on Instagram, Facebook, uh and uh Twitter.

(37:23):
You'll be able to watch that live. And what we're
basically doing so Merging Vests and Players. We bring together
combat vets and former professional athletes and help them find
purpose once the uniform comes off, help them find that
team again, that identity with the uniform, all those things
that we lose. Um, you know, I did both, so
I can speak to both. And and the fact of
the matter is, yes, combat and playing a game, playing

(37:45):
a sport very different. Different, But that camaraderie, that locker room,
that dedication to mission and having to sacrifice a lot
to be elite is very similar. Also, those careers ending
in your twenties and thirties typically is very similar. And
feeling like you'll never do anything as good as you
did before is very similar. But the reality is we
are people that have achieved those things, have gotten to

(38:08):
that level. We're willing to lay it all down, and
then when it's over, we still have that inside us,
you know. And and and because just because the team
is gone and that uniform has gone, it doesn't mean
we have to beat ourselves up so bad. We still
have that tribe and we have so many of us
that did it before that are doing great things in
other facets of our life, you know. And so we're
just trying to encourage everyone and build that team up,

(38:31):
leave no man behind, so that you know, as we
transition our veterans and our professional athletes. It could need
to be not just contributing members of society, but leaders,
you know, and help us through tough times like this, UM,
and you know we really need that. So this this,
this is a fundraiser UM to continue our work that
we're doing. And now we're having to do so much
of that virtually, and we're touching more than just our

(38:53):
five cities, whoever where our main chapters are. We're reaching
so many people across the nation that never had been
able to hear our message. That's what it's all about.
This is a fundraiser supporting warriors during and after COVID nineteen.
That is, in two days May seven, eight p m
Eastern five pm Pacific time, you can text m v
P give to three one nine nine six. That's MVP

(39:16):
give to three one, Chris Angel, J. Glazer, Dean Kane,
Tony Gonzalez, Chris long, Shmika Hols Claw, CT Christ The Thompson,
Andrew Wittworth of the RAMS and it's gonna be unbelievable. Nate,
keep those folks safe and thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you. I appreciate your brother All. I appreciate you
He's one of the best in the NFL and he
clearly has the plan, but for some reason people are

(39:36):
doubting him. Tell you who it is. Be sure to
catch the live edition of The Doug Gottleib Show weekdays
at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
and the I Heart Radio Whap What Up Doug Gottleib
Show Fox Sports Radio. There's a there's an expression that
Jerry Sloan had You guys know Jerry Sloan is was

(40:01):
Jerry Sloan? Did he get the call? I know he
had dementia? Jerry, Jerry Sloan was first of all, Jerison
was a great player with the old Chicago Bulls. Really tough,
hard nosed player. He was the coach of the Utah
Jazz that got to two NBA finals and lost to
Michael Jordan's Right like a right has not gotten the call.

(40:24):
My apologies to the Sloan family. But Jerry Sloan, that's
Darren Williams famously got him fired. Remember then, So Jerry
Sloan was the coach of the Utah Jazz, and first
it was Frank Layden. He has member Frank Layden. Frank
Layden was one of the funniest men in the history

(40:44):
of sports. He was, I mean, he was like a
It's like a Gualking comedy act, right, And they drafted
Stockton and Malone and then uh Sloan took over and
they went on. You know, one year they pushed the Lakers.
Remember that Ramos that was one of the championship Lakers.
Like I'm gonna say eighty seven seven was Pistons, right,

(41:09):
maybe eighties six. They pushed the Lakers to like five
games in a five game series. They played the Old
Salt Palace and it was like the first time anybody
had ever gotten to know John Stockton. Who Also, here's
another one. John Stockton was cut from the eighty four
Olympic team. Like here's something not discussed and people don't
have time for it to whatever whatever reason they glossed over,

(41:29):
Like there's a lot of talk about Zolia Thomas should
have been on it because he didn't make the he
was on the eight Olympic team and they boycotted. What
people forget is the eighty four Olympic team that did
play Soviet Union, didn't play um East Germany, didn't play
who was right here in Los Angeles Jordans did play
and was the best player in Bob Knight was the coach.

(41:50):
They cut Barkley, and they cut John Stockton and I
mean you go back, and they cut Mark Price, and
they cut a bunch of dudes, and they kept Steve
Alford and Leon Wood and some other dudes of of
and Joe Klein got kept. John Konkat and Joe Klein John, yeah, John,
I think both both of them. John Conack and Joe
Clin both made the team. And you know, guys like

(42:11):
Pat you did not, you know, So there was There's
always been politics with USA basketball, always has been, always
will be. But Jerry Sloan, uh, he uttered this phrase.
If you uh, if you let me, let me get

(42:33):
this expression straight. If you listen to the fans, eventually
you'll be sitting next to him. And if you listen
to the fans, eventually you make and nothing is Nothing
is a better statement for the New Orleans Saints quarterback
situation than that sentence. Because I've heard people who I

(42:55):
really respect, many who I don't respect, say what are
they doing Taysom Hill? Taysom Hill, and and they have
said that Taysom Hill they believe is a better throwing
version of Lamar Jackson. They're like, whoa he WHOA. Now,
look he might not be. I don't know, he might

(43:20):
not be. But a couple of things you need to
know about Taysom Hill. One, Taysom Hill was electric when
he was in college at b y U. Hey, Taysom
Hill was a stud when he was in college. He's
from Pocatella, Idaho, which is the home of Idaho State University.

(43:42):
He's a stud. As a senior, he threw for sixty
nine yards and eighteen touchdowns in high school, ran for
four yards and scored twenty four touchdowns Idaho State Player
of the Year in college. In college, he originally was
going to Stanford, all right, but instead he decided to

(44:05):
go to b y U because he's LDS and they
used him as you know, a wildcat, change the pace
at b y U. But the problem with him in
college was he kept getting hurt. He got hurt in
two thousand thirteen, got hurt in two thousand fourteen, got
hurt in two thousand fifteen. He had a medical red shirt.

(44:26):
And in two thousand sixteen, um, he uh he he
was gonna he was gonna play in another school. And
be a grad transfer, right, and then he suffered another injury.
He got hurt all the time in college. Some of
it was being some of it was because of style, right,

(44:48):
I mean, he's just a wild man out there something
I'm sure is whatever the makeup his makeup is. But
when he played, he was electric. He played as part
of five different seasons at b y U. Right, he
ran a four point four four forty and a thirty
eight point five thirty eight and a half inch vertically.

(45:09):
This is after knee, ankle, and leg injuries. Brank Liz
Frank injury. That's the broken that's the weird broken foot thing.
He had a broken leg. You know, Cam Newton d
Liz Frank Like, after all the after all those injuries,
he ran a four four all Right, He signed with
the Packers, played in a couple of preseason games, and
the Saints claimed him off waivers. And the two thousand

(45:33):
eighteen season he was the third string quarterback and all
of a sudden they figured out, hey, in the red zone,
we can play eleven on eleven football. Now, if you
don't know what eleven on eleven football, you like gott Laby,
you're an idiot. Basketball guy. All football is eleven on eleven,
thank you, thank you. But what football coaches deemed to

(45:57):
be eleven on eleven is if you have a quarterback
who can be a viable runner. If you have a
quarterback who's a viable runner, now all of a sudden,
it's eleven on eleven. The assignments change. That's why that
style of football is so hard. It's hard to keep

(46:20):
a guy healthy, but it's so hard to stop. But
I've had people say, like John Payton, what's he doing.
There's there's no there's no way he's taking over for
Drew Brees, right, there's no way stop with this selling us.
Then they give him this huge I don't know if

(46:41):
you saw this. Jameis Winston signs a million dollars, Taysom
Hill signs I think two years, like sixteen million dollars,
ten million guaranteed. So based upon and you play or
get a shot in the NFL, generally based upon how
much money you're making. But you've had people say, I
don't care what Sean Payton says. Taysom Hill couldn't possibly

(47:03):
be the future there in New Orleans. Well, they had
Teddy Bridgewater and then let him walk and now they
have Jamis Winston and they paid him a million dollars.
I'm not sure if you're aware, but not only have
the Saints had an unbelievable amount of success on offense
with Sean Payton as the head coach, he's also been

(47:27):
able to identify talent. There's there's a guy on television
Anthony Romero Romo. Do you guys knew that is Tony Romo?
Tony Romo was like the D two player of the year.
He went undrafted, he was signed by the Dallas Cowboys.
Are you aware of the guy who swore stood on

(47:48):
the table and swore by Tony Romo and made sure
that he was there and he was the starting quarterback
of the Dallas Cowboys. That would be Sean Payton. So
I don't know. You may ink you know more because
you're a fan. You may think because you've seen Lamar
Jackson tear up the league, No way could he be

(48:09):
anywhere near the thrower the athlete of Lamar Jackson. No
possible way. When when Drew Brees got hurt, we said
the season was over, You're like, well, Teddy Bridgewater. Teddy
Bridgewater had the fewest number of air yards per pass
in the NFL last year of any quarterback, any of them,

(48:32):
name the quarterback Mitch Drabinsky, uh, Nick Foles, Gardner, Minshew,
Like you picked the bottom five quarterbacks or whatever you
wanted to. I've done this exercise before. Who's the worst
starting quarterback in the NFL? And I like Teddy Bridgewater,
but they were he was Sam Bradford. Sam Bradford ding it,
which is get rid of it as quick as possible,

(48:54):
lateral throws just big, big, big big biby being one
because it still didn't have confidence in the knee. And
two he just doesn't have the big arm. And they
but they won games because they they nickel and guying
me down the field and they get the ball and
Taysom Hill would come in and they score touchdowns. So
a guy who can win games without Drew Brees, a
guy who's been able to identify talent, not just Drew

(49:16):
Brees coming off the shoulder, but Tony Romo resurrecting Kenny
Bridgewater's career as well. There are a litany of backup
quarterbacks who have come through New Orleans and gone on
to other heights. I don't know about you, but I'm
gonna give Sean Payton to benefit of the doubt. It's
the exact same thing as Belichick. It's the same thing
as Belichick. Right, Like, if you want to tell me

(49:40):
that Bill Belichick is hard to work for or hard
to play for, I'm not gonna argue with you. A
lot of people have said that. But if you want
to tell me the old man doesn't know what he's doing, like, okay,
even if they don't win this year, like it was
the end of that, right, everybody knew this was the
end of the run. They can try and figure it out.
They'll win more games than they probably should. And if

(50:01):
they can identify Stidham or whoever the next quarterback is,
I'm gonna bet on Bill Belichick. Why Because you don't
just win twenty years in a row a luck. You know,
you gotta have guys that know what the heck they're doing.
And this is the same thing in business. You know,
serial entrepreneurs sometimes they're not successful initially, but once they are,

(50:24):
anything they touch it seems to turn to gold because
they just they figure it out. They identified top products,
they identify people to work with, They know how the
deal is done, and at the quarterback position. Specifically, if
Sean Payton says he's the guy, then he's the guy.

(50:45):
Sean Payton thinks, uh, he's a do it all weapon
Steve Young type in and out of the pocket. Of course,
Steve Young is a former b y U quarterback. Steve
Young did and just you're a where Steve Young struggled
early in his career with the Tampa Buccaneers before he
went to the USFL. And he just so happens to

(51:06):
be a former B y U quarterback who happened to
run around and then found a home in a perfect
offense with the San Francisco forty Niners, won a Super
Bowl and became an all time great. If Sean Payton
swears by him, I'm good with it, right, I actually
do see it, but I might not see it. If
I can understand, you're like, you put him in these

(51:28):
specific you know you like it feels like a gadget guy.
Feels like Cordell Stewart, Right, Remember Cordell Stewart was slash,
he played wide re c play running back, he played
quarterback that as the starting quarterback, he was Okay. But
if Sean Payton says no, no, no, he's more than okay,
he's a terrific accurate thrower. His injury history obviously gives

(51:49):
me pause, but that is you're going back four years
now before between when he was last injured. But he
was injured all the time. But as Sean Payton says,
he can do it. Sean Payton seems to know what
the future of the NFL looks like. They're all telling
you this, Like, dude, you you don't have to have
a guy that can run like Lamar, but you better
have a guy that can move a little bit, can move,
can throw, and can play at times eleven on eleven football,

(52:14):
Sean Payton told us in Minnesota. You know you told
us in Minnesota, and every year I have a discussion.
I'm like, Sean, tell me what's next in the NFL,
And in Minnesota it's like stopped him in his tracks
and he goes you watch basketball? I said, yeah, he's
a position list basketball position list. Football guys who can
do everything. Linebackers who can run and cover, Safeties who

(52:36):
are built like linebackers who can cover like cornerbacks, running
Backs who can catch like receivers, receivers who can run,
tight ends who can run can catch but also can block.
Hybrid players positionless football. That's the way of the future.
Quarterbacks who can run, so that you can play eleven

(52:59):
on eleven football. It becomes a lot less complex the defenses.
You can run when you have to respect the other
guy staff in the football or the guy who's getting
getting the staff the quarterback. That guy can't run, can't move.
Then all of a sudden, it's ten on eleven football,
and even with all of the rules, you become a

(53:20):
little bit easier to stop. If Sean Payton says he's
good with it, then we should be good with it
as well. We're starting to go a little too far
with one of the great greatest college fall players of
all time. I'll explain next. Be sure to catch the
live edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at
three pm Easter noon Pacific. We do this thing with

(53:43):
I love and mel Kyber Jr's friend. I used to
work over there for ten years, nine years up in Bristol, Connecticut.
This in no way is an attack on mel Khyber Jr.
A lot of what he says he is taking, as
he will credit from other people you know in the industry.
But we're we're doing this thing like, look, I think
Joe Burrow's got you to be really good. And he

(54:04):
was the top rated prospect. He was the top ratty
quarterback on everybody's board. If you go back one calendar year,
one calendar year, coming off his freshman season, every human
being on earth, including all the guys in the GMS
in the league, would have said the number one prospect
at quarterback is Trevor Lawrence, who just won a national championship,
and the number two prospect was to a tongue of

(54:26):
ioloa right now. Two of was the second quarterback taken,
but Joe Burrow went number one overall. Trevor Lawrence is
not eligible until next year's draft. There's an interesting side
note that I should point out. There's a lot of
talk about the possibility of college football being pushed back. Now.
Most of these uh big time football schools to come

(54:47):
out and said they expect students on campus. Students on
campus means college football gamest we play in the fall.
But if it's played in the spring, guys like Trevor
Lawrence aren't gonna play because NFL teams don't want to play,
not just the risk of injury. But too many games
in one calendar year for anybody's body. But this was

(55:07):
Mel Kuiber Jr. Earlier this morning on Get Up talking
about Trevor Lawrence and Joe Burrow as prospects. How can
you see those two on the field in that final
game and think Joe Burrow wouldn't have gone number one
over Trevor Lawrence considering Lawrence was struggling in the game
prior to that against the Ohio State until, like I said,
Shawn Wade left that football game and that game turn
So I think you know, no question, Joe Burrow would
have been a lot guaranteed to be the number one

(55:30):
pick that the Bengals. No, you would. I love you, Mel,
but that is hyperpoly. As hyperpoly, you don't take looking
at one game, and by the way, Ohio State do,
they're they're basically the whole team was drafted on defense
and the whole team and as as good as Clemson
has been, like their wide receivers weren't nearly as good

(55:53):
this year as he had been the past. Hie Higgins
went in the second round, and a lot of that
is because he looks the part, but he struggled a
get open and against man to man, struggle to get
up against man to man. But here's the bigger thing.
Joe Burrows twenty three years old. Trevor Lawrence is twenty
years old. And and that's part of the evaluation prospect

(56:13):
product process is what would Trevor Lawrence looked like in
three years on that same field, right, with better feel,
with more experience, haven't seen more bullets, of course you
would have been he would have been calmer man. It's
a very easy assumption to make. Now Burrow Burrow has
played exactly as much football as Trevor Lawrence, I understand.

(56:34):
But Burrow been around, been really well coached at Ohio
State and at l s U. And we had a
loaded up offense like let's not here, and and the
Clemson defense, by the way, lost seven guys in the
NFL Draft. They weren't the same this year, not playing
against a stack Clemson normal Clemson defense. We've done this
thing because it's you know, it's recency bias. Well, I

(56:59):
saw Joe Burrow most recently outplayed Trevor Lawrence. Is never
just about one game. It's about what how do you
project over the next four years? What is your rate
of improvement. And my guess is that you know, look,
the Bengals would have been an interesting case study because
Burrow being from Ohio, repping that area of Ohio so strong.

(57:21):
I I get it. But in terms of the number
one prospect, Trevor Lawrence would have been the number one
prospect and I'm not sure Burrow would have been number two.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports
Radio dot com and within the I Heart Radio app
search f s R to listen live. He's a three

(57:44):
time NBA champion. He's also been in the front office
and he's been an NBA agent. He's he's done it
really all. He's b J Armstrong. He joins us on
the Doug Gottlip Show on Fox Sports Radio. B J,
how are you. I can't complain, Doug, and hope all
this will and you guys are standing safe and thanks
for having me on b J. You can absolutely complain here.

(58:04):
That's what we're here for. If you have a complaint,
you can you can log it with us. And you
have any for instance, you have any complaints about the
last Hans I do that. It's uh it's been great. Um,
it's been really fun watching it, especially with my two
older kids, and um, you know that they're one My
oldest son is nineteen, my daughter is sixteen. So for

(58:27):
them to have an opportunity and and to see the
response of the younger generation has been fun to watch
and the response of everyone. Everyone's like, I can't believe that.
And it's like, thirty years later, if people are still
talking about those teams and those events. Uh, it's just
kind of I chuckled to myself because my life never
seemed this exciting and here we are talking about things

(58:49):
that happened some thirty years ago. Nine You're at Iowa,
all time assist leader, great shooter, great player, playing for
Dr Tom Davis, UH six and all time steals. You
know you did you did it all at the University
of Iowa. What was the process like when the Bulls
drafted you, Well, you know, it was certainly a lifelong

(59:10):
dream to have an opportunity to play in the n
b A and and Doug. You know, I I just dreamed,
like so many kids that you know, to be able
to play in college. And you know, you always have
that in the back of your mind. I would love
to have the opportunity and then for that to become
a reality. It's just a dream comes come true for
me and my family and low and bold. I get

(59:31):
drafted by the by the Bulls, which was close to
home with me growing up in the city of Detroit
in the state of Michigan. So um, it was just
it was it was just a wonderful opportunity. And uh,
I couldn't think of two better teammates to have right
out of the gate, Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan. Phil Jackson
was my first coach in the NBA. So um, you know,

(59:51):
you got to get lucky along the way, and uh,
certainly I was the beneficiary of that luck. And you know,
I'm just very happy how things turned out and to
be able to play and let alone win a championship
and win three championships. So it was just it was
just a whirlwind of events that happened and just in
the right place at the right time. You know what.
What's interesting and obviously right place at the right time

(01:00:13):
is it's very gracious of you, right like you you
made you and um obviously eventually supplanted John Paxson obviously
as point guard of the Bulls as part of those
those championship teams. But both you and packs you didn't
necessarily fit the original style of what a traditional kind
of point guard would be. But you couldn't. Those guys,
the dominant ball handling guys couldn't play with Jordan's. What

(01:00:36):
was that evolution like because you were a great pastor
in college, You were a true point guard in college,
but you had to evolve into playing off the basketball,
letting Mike be Mike. You were part of that transition
to the triangle offense, where anybody who's played in it
knows that is there's there's no picking, there's very little
pick and roll in there, right, there's not the traditional
point guard stuff. What was that like to play with

(01:00:58):
Jordan's through his own personal transition as well as the
team's transition of finding a style that worked for him
and worked for the team to win a championship. Well,
that's an excellent question, and that was that was a
tough transition for for myself when I first came in
the league, because, as you mentioned, I was a ball
dominant like most point guards were, uh in that era,

(01:01:22):
where you had the ball, you did the distributing. You
did the initiating and you tried to you really tried
to master the art of what made a good point
guard at that at that time was you had to
try to figure out when the pass and win the shoot,
and the better point guards kind of had a delicate balance.

(01:01:42):
There was really no formula for it, but you really
tried to have that balance of really manage any team.
And when I went to Chicago, you know, it was
clear that this was a very unique player and it
was going to require me if I was gonna be successful,
just to think outside of the box, because there wasn't
a part of his game him that he couldn't do.
You know, Michael was very capable of being a point

(01:02:03):
guard himself if he wanted to. If he chose that
he could score, he could post, he could he could
just do it all. And Um, the one thing that
I learned very quickly was the pro game, you had
to find space on the floor, and if you could
create space for other players, that would give you an
opportunity to do what you do best. But more importantly,

(01:02:25):
it would give that player um opportunity to to not
only score himself, but maybe create other opportunities for yourself
or other teammates. So learning how to shoot and play
with us with the Scottie Pippen, I mean, with the
Michael Jordan's was of the essence. And then lo and behold,
another player emerges out of nowhere, Scottie Pippen, who was

(01:02:45):
a young player when I got there, and suddenly he
becomes a player who could who had some who had
similar a similar skill set. He could play off the dribble,
and he could create havoc on the defensive end. So
it was it was quite unique. Wasn't something that I
that I played, you know in high school or college.
But I had to figure it out on the on

(01:03:07):
the run and um, figure out on the job, I
should say, But it all worked out in the end, um,
and you just kind of learn as you go as
you play. You know, if you're going to play against
the Detroit Pistons, for instance, you have to you have
to try to figure out how to create space on
the floor. And being able to shoot play off the
wall was one of the ways that we did it.
And uh, it worked to perfection for us. And that

(01:03:30):
was a kind of the stout. And you can see
whether it was John Packs and myself, Craig Hodges of
Steve Kerr. We all kind of fit that mode of
guys who could play alongside great players like Michael Jordan's
Scotty put What what is that like though, to to
have the pressure like and I know, like the respect
I have for you and for packs and Kerr and Craig.
My dad was an assistant Longbie stay and I tell

(01:03:52):
people this all the time I was a little kid.
We moved out to California. Craig was a senior at
Longbie State, Texas, the head coach. I went to this
every day and my dad would come home and said
he missed two today, And I was like, who, Like
Craig Hodges literally missed two shots in practice like the guy.
You guys don't miss right, Like pro shooters are unbelievable

(01:04:12):
with their skill. What is that like though? Because that
was the big That was the big change with the Triangle.
That was the big change with Mike was that he
would instead of trying to do it himself, he would
pass you guys, What is that? How how do you
process the pressure of even though Jordan's going to get
the acclaim, you guys making the shots are missing the shots.
That's the difference in winning a championship. Then then then previously,

(01:04:36):
how did you process all that pressure? Well, you know,
when you're playing with Michael and Scotty, you what you
try to do is you knew you had to at
the very least, you had to shoot three out of five.
And I can vividly remember if I would miss two
shots in the game. I mean, Phil would be all
over me. He's like, what's going on? Can you shoot?

(01:04:57):
Or do I need to put someone can shoot? Like,
I'm like three for five from three and he's all
over me about I need to be five for five.
But I got it. We all got it that, you know,
Michael and those guys were going to get the majority
of the shots. But in order for us to keep
the defense honest, you know, Packs and myself and cur
And and Craig, we had to shoot a very high percentage.

(01:05:19):
And uh, you know, I just remember when I came
in my first day of practice. I remember, you know,
text winners, and you know, he he made it very clear.
You know, there's three types of shooters. Those guys who
you know, create shots, that's Michael Jordan's those who make shots,
open shots, and then those are guys who can't shoot.

(01:05:40):
Now you gotta figure out which one you are. It
was very obvious that I wasn't gonna be half the
ball enough to create a shot. And if I was
gonna play or have a career in this league, I
had to be a guy who can make open shots.
And Michael and Scottie they both were terrific passers and
and they knew when the finest and when to do
their things. So, um, it was very obvious what I

(01:06:02):
had to do if I was going to survive in
the NBA. And uh, text laid it out to the
very first day of practice, and I never looked back.
Doug Atli show here on Fox Sports Radio, l B. G.
Armstrong joining us, what's missing? What's missing from the docks
so far? Well, I think you probably there will probably
going next to once he did really decided to retire

(01:06:24):
and when he did baseball, and and in that whole scenario, Uh,
he went there for you know, a year and a
half or two almost two years before he finally came back,
and uh, you know what happened, you know, his private
life with his family, which is will document it, So
I would venture to say will probably go there and
then you know, going to the ninety seven and you know,

(01:06:46):
in the next three championships and and one of the
things I'm most interested to see is as we're getting
to know about Jordan's I would imagine and I haven't
seen it yet because I it's very hard for me
to watch this watch yourself one television. You it's always
one of those weird things, right, you know, you can
watch other people, but you can't watch it. So but
I would venture to say, it's gonna He's gonna answer,

(01:07:10):
you know, the question of why he really plays, like
how do you live at this extreme? Right? How do
you why are you so extreme in the way you
prepare and play? And what's driving force? And I'm just
interested to see if it's going to get to that
point where he will actually say why he really played
and to answer that question so um, because I think

(01:07:32):
that would it's hard. I would be hard for him
to share why he really played the game. I have
a an idea of what I think he will say,
but I think at some point he will have to
answer that question. As you're beginning to see the backstory
and all of the things that has driven him to
this point, and you're learning more and more about him
and his personality and you can see how, you know,

(01:07:54):
his fire and desire and how he carried this and
we're all talking about, you know, how competitive he is.
But you know, at some point, I think they have
to answer that question and he's gonna have to share
with the audience of why he really plays the game
of basketball, because it's amazing that someone can stay this
driven for that long and have that type of focus

(01:08:15):
and desire and what was the driving force behind that?
You know, it's interesting you your guy, Jerry Kross liked
Jerry Cross hired you. You're done, and yet they didn't
pick or, at least on the video, they didn't pick
on you the way it seemed like everybody else, Jerry
Kross like they didn't like. How did you? How did
you stay on the good side? Well, you know, when
you're in that business, dugge as you know, and you know,

(01:08:39):
when you decide to live a public life, right, there's
your public life and then there's your your private life
that not many people know. Um I was I learned
very quickly if I was going to have a career
in the NBA, not if I was just gonna get
drafted and play for a year or two and be out.
If I was going to have to career a career
in the NBA, I was going to have to become

(01:08:59):
a professional, and uh, Doug, I just made a decision
very early just to say I want to be a
professional about this. I'm not gonna worry about what people
are saying off the court. I'm not gonna worry about
things I can't control. I'm just going to focus in
on my job, do what I gotta do, and uh,
you know, and treat people with respect and demand that

(01:09:20):
same respect on the way back. So you know, I
didn't have a problem with Jerry because with Jerry Cross
is because in the end, Jerry Cross wanted to win
just as much as I did. And when I look
at his career, you know what, No Lincoln take this
away from him. He won six championships in eight years,
and with the exception of Michael Jordan, he was responsible

(01:09:41):
for everyone and everything else that was built on those teams.
And um, you know, you know he didn't draft Michael Jordan,
but he drafted Scottie Pippen, Horror s Grant, he traded
for Bill Cartwright, He drafted myself, so forking, so on,
and not only did he do it once in the
first repeat, he was able to do that twice. And
the only reason we didn't win in those two years

(01:10:03):
was because Michael Jordan wasn't there. So you know, in
the end, it's all about results. This is a result
driven business and people can say what they want where
they like someone or they don't. In the end, what
did you do and what he did stands on its
own here we are still talking about it and um
and no one myself including ever question his spirit to

(01:10:28):
want to win and be the best, because we were
all driven by that as an organization. Uh. Last thing,
b j Im starting joining us in the Doug Gotlib show,
You've you've you've truly done it all, uh in in
this business, right You've worked in the front office, you've
worked as an agent. Of course, you've been a back up,
a star and All Star in the NBA and a
three time NBA champion. Um. If if you had to

(01:10:49):
surmise those first three championships outside of Jordan's what made
it special? I do think like kind of lost in it.
You mentioned Jerry Cross and the team he built like
that was a team with unbelievable defensive versatility and athleticism
like that, it kind of gets undersold how good that
first second at first and second and maybe even third

(01:11:11):
team were in terms of you know I had, and
even the second group to in terms of defensive versatility
and athleticism that would translate into today's game, which we
all agree is different. Well, you know, Douget, you know,
it's you know again, you know, you and I have
been known each other for a long time and and
you I don't know if you if you got your

(01:11:32):
someone in my house. But I was just talking last
night about that very you know, this very question, like
what what would interest me about all of this is
I'm watching this, you know, I'm watching this, and I
know all of these stories and I lived most of them.
The one thing that would interest me is more than
anything right now as I'm watching this last dance and
all of the things, is the backstory of how when

(01:11:56):
I first came in this league, I had text winners
a basket ball I mean, this guy, this guy is basketball,
you know, text winners. I had Johnny Bach was an
assistant coach, and then I had and then I had
Phil Jackson and Bill Jackson to me, is like the
portal for the last fifty years of like basketball. You know,

(01:12:18):
he played against Bill Russell, he played against Wilt Chamberlain,
he coached Michael Jordan, he played for Red Holzmann. He
coached Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neil. And I'm like, oh, wow,
he's he's like uh because he's like an historian that
I think could just share with all of us about
the game of basketball, of what he's seen in his perspective,

(01:12:42):
how the game was was played then to play now,
and all of the great people he's worked with, you know,
whether it was Elvin Hayes or West Unselled or I mean,
you know, think about the Knicks were actually you know,
with with with Willis Reid, that was like small ball
Willis read was only about six eight or six nine.
But now we're talking about small ball is it's something new.

(01:13:05):
So I just I was thinking, I was like, he
has a lot to say right now, and it would
be great to just hear him talk about, you know,
what he has seen in his association with the NBA.
And I remember just talking to Texts and Johnny backing
these guys and they were always talking to us about
what it was like and gave us kind of a

(01:13:26):
perspective on the history of the game. And Uh, those
were fascinating stories when I was young and I was
thinking Phil Jackson has something to say. I mean just
as a coach alone, he's won eleven championships that I think,
he's won a one or two with the Knicks, and
he's seen a lot of basketball, and I think that
would make for a great story, a great series. Maybe

(01:13:47):
you and I can uh do the Phil Jackson dock.
We'll do the Phil Jackson. We'll do the Phil Jackson
do p J. Great stuff. Thanks so much for catching
up with us, and look forward to doing it again,
uh in person after quarantine. Thanks so much for joining us.
Man as b J. Armstrong. Course, he's a big time
agent with the Washerman Group and the former GM of

(01:14:07):
the Chicago Bulls as well as a starting point guard
they won three championships. Uh, he was a part of
those teams early in his career. The best Michael Jordan
has ever played. I'll share that with you. Next. Be
sure to catch the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific on
Fox Sports Radio and the I Heart Radio app. Dan Buyer,

(01:14:28):
what's the game, Doug? The game today is rank the
best NBA finals of the six that Jordan won. You
can do it any criteria you want, most impressive, the
ones you remember, But best NBA finals of the six
that Jordan was victorious. Love it would be number one. That's,
of course his last NBA finals he hit the game
winning shot. Seven would be too. That's because it had

(01:14:49):
the flu game, right, the flu game in in in Utah.
And then I would put two that was that was
the first first three peat one that was against the
Phoenix Suns. That's because that's a weird one where the Sun. Sorry.
Ninety three was the Sons. That's where they won three
of the four their three road games, uh and lost

(01:15:11):
two of the three at home. You know, I apologize
if you talked with B. J. Arm Strong about this,
But if Jordan's doesn't leave, do you think then they
win the next five or do you think, like if
you would have stayed in ninety five, that the run
ends like in nineties hard to know, Um, people forget
ninety five there was the expansion draft, so did it
water down the league a little bit, sure, But would

(01:15:33):
that have taken bg RM strong gonna be in draft
in the expansion draft? What would the expansion draft have
looked like if Jordan was you know, you know, like
it's just different at the time. So I don't know. Um,
I don't think it would have been eight straight. I
don't think it'd be an trade either. That's just that's
really hard. It's it's weird, right, Like part of the
story the comeback is kind of covers up the fact

(01:15:55):
that it would be really hard to do at eighth
three years. Doug NFL schedule comes out on Thursday, ranked
them most likely teams to face the Chiefs on opening
night in Kansas City. They've got their eight home opponents set.
Who's most likely to face the Chiefs in that Thursday
night opener? I think it's the Texans Deshaun Watson, and
of course they had nothing, they had nothing league, So

(01:16:18):
I put Texans one. Texans most likely. UM I would
put the the Broncos at two because they're and the
Raiders at three the traditional rivals. Alright, Doug rank who
you think are the greatest three running backs of all time?
As Frank Gore, third on the all time rushing list,

(01:16:39):
is back for another season. Um, okay, I'm gonna do
Jim Brown, Barry Sanders one, Jim Brown two, and uh
I'll go sweetness Walter Payton three. Alright, dou rankly big.
This is this is unique. Actually, you know what, We'll
say this one for another time. Rank your three favorite

(01:17:01):
ice cream. That's because my tweet last night. Yes, yes, yes,
um and nothing random like you know, chocolate with cherries
and you know of okay, so uh alright. Number three
is uh uh scooping a cone? Right, scooping a cone.

(01:17:22):
Number two is a milkshake. Oh it was real ice cream.
And number one is an ice cream sandwich. You were
just had like just nil ice cream and they're amazing, amazing, simple, amazing.
You got a box of well now there's eight of them,
but there were twelve in the freezer. When did you
get the box? You know, one a day or two
a day, it's a one a night. This is game

(01:17:48):
time on the Duck Gottlieb Show. Well, it's interesting you
asked about bj Armstrong and would they how many would
they have one in a row, et cetera. Um, there
there is something lost in all the discussion about Jerry
Krauss and Jerry Ryan's Doorphan ending the dynasty. You know,

(01:18:09):
all good things must come to an end. I can
prove it to your next in The Doug Gotlip Show,
Fox Sports Radio. Be sure to catch the live edition
of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m.
Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio in the I
Heart Radio. Ah app, What up Doug Gottlip Show, Fox
Sports Radio? Have you ever? I don't know who uttered

(01:18:31):
the word all All good things must come to an end,
but but they must, especially in sports. And we started
the show talking about how Michael Jordan's unique uh kind
of first into the market in so many different ways,
and you don't feel like there'll ever be another Michael Jordan.
He smartly put it that way. Um. And in addition

(01:18:56):
to the they'll never be a Jordan with that tupe
of recognition given a pass on being a political um
able to take a league to two new heights. The
NBA was already incredibly popular. People forget the NFL was
not nearly as popular on a weekly basis. This is
before the advent of of the Red Zone channel and

(01:19:22):
before fantasy football right, Fantasy football wasn't and the two do,
in fact go hand in hand. Fantasy football is incredibly
popular and allow has allowed the NFL to be really
popular to people who aren't really NFL fans. There's a
lot of issues with why the NBA isn't as popular
in terms of the ratings. But I I think what's

(01:19:48):
interesting is, you know, Buyer asked this question, well, you know,
had Jordan not retired, how many in a row would
they have won? And you know, so many people are
watching this documentary and I kind of warned everybody of
this that, look, I had to break it to you.

(01:20:08):
Once I heard the directors say that Michael Jordan's was
making suggestions and part of the editing process, and I
saw that Jordan was promoting the dock, I was like, yeah,
that that feels like it's going to only champion. Michael
Jordan's gonna be a Michael Jordan's dock and he's gonna
really really like it, which is not bad, Like there's

(01:20:28):
not terrible stuff there to talk about, but when it
once becomes pro Jordan's, you don't really completely get a sense.
And so one of the big things is like with
Jerry Ryansdorf and he's hiding behind Jerry late Jerry Krauss
and Jerry Krause, you know, ended this dynasty, and like, look,
it hasn't been the story hasn't been told during the

(01:20:51):
dock and we brought on guests and said, like, look,
Phil Jackson was offered a ten year contract before before
they had to call in Jerry Ryansdorfan signed a one
year deal. He was offered a ten year contract. He
just didn't want to stay through a rebuild. Like you
can't go from from coaching Jordan and Pippen to coaching
my man, Corey Carr. Right, they just sorry, that done,

(01:21:14):
Corey Benjamin, Like that doesn't that's too hard. And Eddie Curry,
Tyson Chandler straight out of you know, straight out of
high school, Like those don't. That doesn't work for those guys.
You can't go from coaching the absolute best in coaching
and expansion team, which is what it became. And why
would it become that because Jordan was done. He was done.

(01:21:37):
This is Michael Jordan's and granted this was at the
end towards towards the tail end of the first three peat.
He's sitting alone in his hotel room, and this is
what he had to say. This is not a and
one of those lifestaff that you envy, you know, where
you can't you confined to this in this this room.

(01:21:58):
I'm ready for give hanging out of this life, you know,
so you know when you get to that point, come
there with no reservations at all, There no reservations at all, none,
And then there were some ers. Then he missed it
and he wasn't good at baseball, and he had he

(01:22:19):
had tried to scratch that itch, and then he came
back and he went three more and he was done.
Don't believe me. Here's Bob Costas yesterday. I can't think
of anything that matches that. And you know a lot
of people have said, and understandably, what the heck, Harry Krouse?
What could get possibly be? Thinking your own going insecurities
get the best of you are going to break up
the team? Why didn't Erry runs throws the owner over

(01:22:41):
rule him? All about is perfectly valid, But in my mind,
it's better that it ended the way it did. Did
you really want to see them ultimately lose? At some
point and he walks off the court, having lost in
a final or an earlier playoff series. Yeah, it's one
of the points that I don't know if it's been
made enough. I mean, look, Pippin wanted to get paid.

(01:23:04):
There was a lockout the next year. Jordan's had been
paid to to the idea that Jordan's was only leaving
because of Phil Jackson, like Jordan had signed a two
year big balloon payment deal where he's making sixty five
million combined over two years. We knew full well that
Jordan was probably done, probably done. A matter of fact,

(01:23:28):
the only thing that might have kept him coming back
would have been losing. But he wouldn't allow them to lose,
so it didn't matter. Became a mood point. Phil was done. Yeah,
it was filled done with Jerry Krauss. Sure they had
reached it in pass, but part of it was the
salary cap was likely to massively change and the league
was starting to go through a through an evolution. Sometimes

(01:23:51):
it's just done. Like we can blame Jerry Krauss and
Jerry Ryansdorff, but that doesn't mean that Michael Jordan is
not blameless, or Scottie Pippen is not blame list or
Phil Jackson is not blameless, or maybe none of them
are truly the number one element or person to blame.
Do you ever think about that? Maybe it was just time.

(01:24:12):
It was just time. It's time to move on, It's
time for everybody do something different. We all made a
lot of money, we all won a lot of games.
And if you end up on top with the greatest
player of that generation and maybe any generation, hitting the
game winning shot on the road in Utah, even better,
even better? Yes, Jordan's Jerry Krauss was bad with pr

(01:24:37):
Jerry Krauss became the whipping boy for Scottie Pippen and
Michael Jordan and Phil Jackson. Know what could he have
done a better job of smoothing that thing over? Yes?
Was he probably the henchman for Jerry Ryan Storff. Yes,
if they could have squeezed out another championship out of
the next three years, would you have sacrificed it? Probably? Probably,

(01:25:01):
especially considering how bad it was when they did start
playing the next year with none of those guys. But like, look,
this is what happens. Look look at the Patriots, man,
look at the Patriots. Thing they lose last year at
home to the Tennessee Titans a right. They didn't lose
to the Chiefs. They lost to the Titans, ye in

(01:25:25):
the first round, um at home at home. So they lose,
and Brady is gone, Grant comes out of retirement only
to go somewhere else. They lost their director of college
scouting to the Titans that they've lost. You know, this
is what happens. Everybody packs their bags and goes goes elsewhere.

(01:25:48):
I mean the San Antonio Spurs, they dragged that thing out.
They won a championship, but then they kind of kept
playing some and it was like, did end great? They
tried to. They wouldn't signed the Marcus Aldrich. Let's run
this thing back one more time. It didn't work. Kwiet
Leonards like, hm, I'm out. And it still hasn't technically ended,

(01:26:12):
even though everybody knows it's been over for a long time.
It's been over a long time. We we all act
like Jordan's could have come back and one another title,
but we've never asked ourselves, Hey, what if he couldn't have?
What if it was time? What if it was just
over and he ended at just the right moment, Which

(01:26:34):
is what it kind of feels like. James Jones will
join us upcoming at twenty five after the hour. I mean, like, look,
think about how the Celtics run ended. Al right, Celtics
were an all time great team. Larry Bird had back problems,
Reggie Lewis died, Lenn Bias died before he ever played

(01:26:56):
a game. Some of it is bad luck, but some
of it is just age. The Celtics with Pierce and Garnett.
Ray Allen left because he knew they were over the hill.
They were over the hill, they were overmatched. Ray Allen
leaves and of course now there's not the all the

(01:27:17):
fields for ray Allen in comparison to the other two
of the Big three. People don't people don't They don't
remember that Magic Johnson when it ended there? Why why
did I end when they lost When they lost to
the Pistons, Byron Scott got hurt, Magic got hurt, and
then they lose to the Lakers. I mean, they excume

(01:27:40):
they lose to the Bulls in one Kareem had retired,
he had gotten old. Magic wasn't nearly the same, the
roster had changed. Smon Bloody wasn't ready for that. I
like that that that wasn't a pretty end and Obviously
it ended prematurely for Magic because of HIV. But that
wasn't a pretty end to that incredible showtime run? Was it?

(01:28:02):
Even Lebron when he's in Miami? Did we forget that
he lost that last year in Miami? They beat the
Spurs on the miracle in Game six and then coming
back and in Lebron in Game seven, and then they
just kind of fell apart the next year the Warriors.

(01:28:22):
You know, as much as the Warriors still had plenty
of life left in him, if they could have won
back to back and not played last year and not
had all of that negativity and then losing the way
they lost, for everybody got hurt, would you take it?
You probably would. That's what the Bulls were. Only they'd
won six titles, not two or three actually out of four.

(01:28:44):
The next two seasons could be Bill Belichick's most impressive.
I'll explain why next. Be sure to catch the live
edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three
p m. Easter noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
the I Heart Radio a app with the last one
in Foxboro. Please turn out the light Stell Gottlieb Show
here on Fox Sports radio. Um, Look, look, Tom Brady

(01:29:08):
has gone and now he's on a jet ski in
the Bay of Tampa with his buddy Rob Gronkowski. Came
out of her town, come out of retirement. Play. I
just want to play with Tommy terrific. And what's left behind?
Jared Stidham appears to be the guy, Brian Hoyer the
vet Old Wiley backup, all right, you have Josh McDaniels,

(01:29:29):
who's been given the vault of knowledge, the vaults of knowledge. Um.
He but but but outside of those guys and Bill Belichick,
who's really left? Who's really left? Remember? Variable of course
the former players. The head coach of the Titans, John

(01:29:52):
Robinson's the GM in Tennessee. He's the former scouting director
of scouting. The Titans just hired Monty Austin Fort who
is going to be the director of player personnel for
the Titans. The Dolphins hired their former defensive coardneer Brian Flores,
who you know I had been told years a year

(01:30:13):
before he was hired that guy will be a star.
Chris Greer, course of former Patriots scout, is the general
manager in Miami. Bill O'Brien's a former offensive coordinator and
quarterback coach. He's the head coach and GM of Houston.
Say what you want, but they've made the playoffs four
six years. Matt Patricia, former d C, is the head
coach in Detroit. Their GM is a former scout and

(01:30:34):
director scouting, and Bob Quinn and the Giants just hired
Joe Judge, who, of course was the special teams coach
for the Patriots. It's one thing to lose your all
time great quarterback. It's another thing to lose your all
time great tight end. And then of course you have
Kyle Vanoy and others decide to retire. But two, I mean,

(01:31:01):
excuse me, calvanois left in the free agency. Darntegan Scarnecki,
their longtime line coach retired. You lose this litany of
staffers in this short period of time. And I know
on all these guys, Brian has been gone for years.
Brable wasn't gone for years, wasn't a coach, there was
a coach elsewhere. Like I get it. But the point

(01:31:24):
is that if if Belichick can win and win, now, dude,
that's almost better than winning with Brady just being able
to be competitive. Considering what's left like we had made
up our minds and rightfully so. Outside of Edelman, they

(01:31:45):
didn't have any top end talent in terms of wide
receivers last year. That that was the whole thing. Well,
are they gonna go out and get Steffon Digs, They're
gonna go out and try and make a run add
into these wide receivers in the draft? Are they gonna
try and add anything to it? I mean, why didn't
they get DeAndre Hopkins Because they knew they had to
rebuild there in cap Hell, and they've lost a good

(01:32:08):
portion of their front office and coaching staff, you know,
and and look Saban Nick Saban's been able to withstand
some of this, But you can withstand some of it
because Alabama, like Ohio State, you just recruit the best players.
You can't do that in the NFL. You can't go
out and sign a class of five stars and eventually

(01:32:32):
just out talent your opponent. That doesn't work in the NFL.
What they had was experience. What they had was great coaching,
and while they still have very good coaching from those
who are left, you can't withstand those types of losses
and hope to be anywhere near the same and not
even talking about the star quarterback, let alone grunt who

(01:32:53):
they didn't it wasn't gonna play with them anyway. They're
just losing everything everything, so gonna be gonna be gonna
be fascinating players, coaches, executives, and waiting support from Vegas
as well. I mean, just really kind of remarkable stuff.

(01:33:15):
Be sure to catch the live edition of the Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m. Easter noon Pacific
Doug Olive Show here on Fox Sports Radio. And it's
it's it's gotten interesting in Green Bay. We've defended the
move just because as much as everybody wants a star
wide receiver in the draft where the Packers are drafting,

(01:33:36):
the top seven wide receiver is already gone. Um. They
did sign Devin Funcchus in the off season, which I
like more than some people do. And you have you know,
Valda Scantling and others who look like they have a
chance to break through. But like, look, you you think

(01:33:56):
Aaron Rodgers short window to three years, get him some dudes.
The Packers responded by drafting Jordan's Love, who is a
developmental prospect couple of years away. Roger's contract makes him, untradeable, uncuttable,
and why would you want to He's still playing at
a high level. But it's a it's a long term play.
And then the second round they went and got a

(01:34:18):
j Dillon who left early from Boston College, big bruising
running back who analytics guys really really like. Let's find
out what James Jones has to say. Of course, he's
a former star wide receiver with the Green Bay Packers
and now an analyst with the NFL Network. James, you good?
You healthy? Everything? Everyone good? And everyone do it. I'm healthy, man,

(01:34:39):
I'm actually out here trying to hit this golf ball.
All right, I won't what What hole are you on
right now? Okay? Carrying your own bag? Is that is
that the quarantine stuff? Or do you actually you have
a cart? How are you? How are your own cart?
Every car? For everybody? I can? I can? I can
roll that way. All right. We won't keep you long. Um,

(01:35:00):
let's start with this. What was your reaction to the
drafting of Jordan's Love? Uh? You know what, to be honest,
which is I was frustrated when I first seen it.
And the reason why I was frustrated, Ken, Yeah, the
reason why I was the reason why I was frustrated
when I first seen it is because we all seen
him in the NFC Championship and you think, like, okay,

(01:35:20):
Aaron Rodgers did one more receiver next to Davante Adams.
I know how special Aaron Rodgers did. That's gonna try
to win this, all right. You know Aaron has three
the folk good Morning years left in un Let's get
all the peoples we can around him, and let's go
try to win this thing. That was my first reaction.
Then when I looked and looked at it, I'm like, okay,
I feel like Jordan's Love was the best available player.

(01:35:41):
And then when you're going through the draft process, all right,
if the guy that you want is not there, you
go to you take the best developble player. And I
think that's what the Packers did, and they're preparing for
the future when Aaron is done, and I think anybody
great alert from there's nobody Rogers, so I like to
pick Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. Your second reaction was
my initial reaction. And what I you know, and and

(01:36:03):
they had put out signals. I mean, I guess should
they have given him a head's up before they made
the pick. Well, you talk about a franchise quarterback. You
talked about a guy that's brought you a Super Bowl,
that's done a lot of special games. There. Absolutely, but
if we all know the name of this business, organizations
do what they want to do no matter what type
of player you are. You know, So, me knowing Aaron Rodgers,

(01:36:25):
I don't even really think you expected them to call
him and say something about it, because he knows that
he's been around the food for so long. He knows
that the organization is going to do what's right for him,
and his job is to go out to them they
plays and just continue to do what you're doing. Ball
on the football field. James Jones joining us from the
twelfth hole on the dou Got Lip Show on Fox Sports. Right,

(01:36:45):
you want to hit the ball? Yeah? Let me here,
can I hear? Yeah? Go ahead, you can hit you
get hit the ball. I'll stall for a second. James
Jones is five yards away. He's he's got a seven
iron seven ver Mone eighty five. Yes, that's that's the
power of the former wide receiver who dominated me in basketball.
He's he's lining up. He's got a slight breeze in
his face. He's gonna hit the hit the golf ball

(01:37:07):
and then return to us here. Um, Dan, how jealous
are you right now? James Jones? Just I want you
to be honest one to ten your level of jealousy
that you're working in a studio in the trees that
they got to be gotten me doing the interviews. So
I'm in a tree now. I think he's gonna I
think he's yeah. I think he's gonna have to pitch out.
You know, James Jones, known for the foot wedge, may

(01:37:27):
have to use the foot or the regular edge to
pitch out of. How far away were you? Oh, I'm
gonna I was about all right. He went to the trees.
You're gonna blame it on me, but really it's because
he used the big dog instead of just instead of
just hitting three wood and getting into the fairway. Um

(01:37:49):
I uh, I'm one of these people that like and
you tell me if I'm wrong. You'll have people say
it's disrespectful to take a guy and I thought I
was thought. In professional sports, respect is about the tract, right.
The guy signed the biggest contract in the history of
the league last year, Isn't that what really determines the
level of respecting organization gives you. Absolutely. I mean well,

(01:38:10):
I mean when you when you get paid, make much
money in Aaron Rodgers making you earn that, And I
mean a is one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever played. Again,
he earned that contract and they paid him as so.
But listen, I talked to Aaron a lot mean, and
they have been around this game a long time. We've
seen people in this organization are in your organization come
and go. You've seen the Brett Fast coming or you've

(01:38:32):
seen the pay Moneys come and go, you know, so
you always know that it's a younger player and a
guy coming up behind you that's eventually gonna come in
there and be the quarterback on the wide receiver. When
I was there, we drafted Jordy Nelson, then we drafted
Randall Cobb, and we already have myself, Donald Driver and
Red Jimmy. So it's all about making your ball cup better.

(01:38:52):
And I feel like she was Jordan's love was the
best player available. But Aaron, he understands that organization spects
the heck out of him. In the world, everybody who
wants the game or spects the hetch out of him.
So he's earned that he's that type of player, and
I believe he's going to embrace this. He's gonna give
Jordan's love all the love that he possibly can have
and turn him into a very good quarterback when and

(01:39:14):
and let's be honest, like these dudes, guys like Aaron
there wired where if something does kind of tick him off,
and you're like, I cannot believe that that actually isn't
a bad thing. Like that dude's motivated, even if it's
against his own organization or how it's perceived, that that
can be a good thing as well, can't it. Absolutely?
I've been telling everybody I will not be surprised. And

(01:39:36):
Aaron Rodgers m d P this year. He was that
type of player when he's motivated and he has something
to prove. He is a very scary too, because I've
been around him and he is a perfectionist. And now
that's he's after a guy who you're saying is going
to be his successor he's gonna go out there and
so the world that he's still the best to do it.
Before the documentary, were you a Jordan guy or a

(01:39:58):
Lebron guy? I've always been a Jordan guy. I got
Jordan's on right now. I've always been the Jordan guy,
but I respect the head out of Lebron James and
I really just appreciate both their craft. Man. But after
watching this is Jordan's stuff, man, you really wish you
could watch and played men. Jordan was so session. Have
you got to play golf with them? No? No, no,
I'm just getting myself in the golf. So I wasn't

(01:40:18):
big in the golf. And when Mikeael was out there hitting,
I know he got me. Probably feels like he'd take
your money now and eventually you'll take his money. Uh
kind of in the end. One thing that surprised you
as a guy who's been on great teams before, uh
in the NFL. One thing that's surprised did you learn
from watching the dock? Um? I think for me, I
think it's I think it's you know, I mean, I

(01:40:39):
think it's kid leadership. I think a lot of people
when you think of Michael Jordan, you're like, man, you
didn't know he was that type of leader. I mean
to go to vegans and get in the dram and
out of that hotel and you know, to get on
his teammates the way he had Man, that that that
takes a bunch of courage and leadership. Man that they
talked to a bunch of guys that making a lot
of money. Man and Len Mary, this is how it's
gonna go. And that's what I loved about it. Awesome. Listen,

(01:41:02):
good luck getting out of those trees. Hit him, hit
him straight, and uh have a lot of fun man,
And I'm glad that you're healthy. Well we'll see soon, okay.
James Jones from the NFL Network joining us from the
twelfth hole, twelth hole, augusta Cinerella story. Buy have you
played any golf here on quarantine? Quarantine? Now he's did.
Buyers working a little bit. Courses are starting to get open.

(01:41:24):
Some you have to carry your own bag? What's that about?
Somebody gotta push? Oh what's that about? You know? I
I would if if somebody wants me to play and
they do the you get your own cart thing, that
now that I will do. It is beautiful in southern California,
Like it is good for Gavin News some good luck
keeping the beaches closed this weekend. It's like gonna be

(01:41:45):
eighty five at the beach on Thursdays. Thanks, Thanks um,
Rama's were you a Jordan's or a Kobe or a
Lebron guy before I mentioned Kobe has most of you know,
Ramos is a lifelong los angeleogic magic guy like that.

(01:42:07):
That's a great point to bring up because because we've
we've done this thing, We've done this thing, like Colby
is the greatest Laker of all time, like he wasn't,
Like well, Magic said it, like of course, Magic says
that that's the magic thing. That's the one really smart
thing that Magic always does his magic suns, like Toby's
the greatest Laker ever. Dude, Magic, No, everybody knows Magic

(01:42:30):
the greatest Laker ever, period. Stop. End of story. Anyway,
go ahead. I'm sorry, Ramos. No, I was gonna say
I agree with what James was saying about he was
a Jordan guy, but he respects Lebron. So I mean,
did you respect Lebron before he became a Laker? Uh? No,
you know you did? You did like him, you know what.
I like started liking Lebron when he played for the

(01:42:52):
USA basketball team in the Olympics, But before that, I
did not root for Lebron. James, That's correct, Uh, what
about you there, Ryan Music before the documentary. You're not
old enough really to have lived through the Jordan's era. Um,
obviously I've tried to pollute your brain cells. But but
you know, like it was all my propaganda doesn't really help.

(01:43:14):
I was always a Kobe Bryant guy. That was right
in my wheelhouse. I was always a Kobe guy. Um.
I liked Shack. Then I felt like Shack turned his
back on l a Um, So I just stuck it
through with Kobe. But you know, as I grew up
and learned more about what Jordans did, I have always

(01:43:37):
been a Jordan's over Lebron. If you will, yeah, I mean,
look you're you're not. I mean I'm and I'm not
doing the talking down to your thing. And it's impossible
for somebody who didn't live through it to understand. Like
Magic was amazing. He was amazing, really really he was
one of these guys that couldn't really shoot, but he
would always make a big damn shot, right, And he

(01:43:59):
was isn't really athletic, he was just big, but he
always got to where he wanted to get. He just
he played at his own kind of pace and you
could say, well, they were less athletic them, Yeah, but
this was the most athletic. They were huge gazelle's running
down the floor and he was the maestro. He was
the what he Here's the difference, Okay, and this is
a big thing. And I don't think I've said this yet.

(01:44:22):
Here's the big difference. When Lebron played on Team USA,
Redeemed team whatever, Kevin Durant was the best, was the
go to score like that, Let's not get it. There
was and and that's it was a big thing there
for the ninety two dream team that yes, uh Magic

(01:44:44):
was past his prime, and yes Larry Bird would pass
their prime, but there's there were still the they were
the guys and Jordan's made it very clear he was
the best player. He was the best player. There was
never a question and when Jordan was the best player,
and that that couldn't can't be said for Lebron. And

(01:45:05):
to the people who have rightfully said, hey, when Lebron
left Cleveland, the thing fell apart. When Long left Miami
and fell apart Cleveland second time and fell apart, you're right,
can we give a little and and looked when Jordan's
left and they'd won three straight championships. It was a
different era, different time. They they they did have home
court in the East. They were not the best team
in the NBA, and they lost in the conference finals.

(01:45:28):
I believe um, But there's a lot at work there,
Like I think they tied with the Celtics, and the
Celtics had that was bird was done. And I'm trying
to think how I coincided with the Reggie Lewis death
as as well, Like there was a lot to it.
But when Jordan's left the Bulls the second time, not

(01:45:50):
only were the Bulls terrible, but the league was terrible.
Now it was helped by a lockout, but more than anything,
everybody was searching for the next Jordan's. He creates such
a high standard for what you were gonna watch and
how was gonna be playing and how it is going
to deliver, and the grabbing holding, the clutching of of
the pistons and the Knicks, and then the other teams

(01:46:12):
that fall eventually made the league kind of unwatchable. And
then people didn't like the Spurs that just weren't fun,
even though they were great teams. You put all that
together and if what you're saying is acreabout Lebron. It
is the second time Jordan left. Obviously everybody left, but
the team was terrible, but the league was never It
wasn't the same for fifteen years. The entire league coming

(01:46:38):
up next. An NFL tradition could be on the move
because the coronavirus. I'll share with you next. Fox Sports
Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Fox Sports Radio dot
com and within the I Heart Radio app. Search f
s R to listen live the press. Get your free

(01:46:59):
Discover credit score card today. You know if you're not
discovered customer and include your Fico credit score and checking
your score card won't hurt your credit. Learn more Discover
dot com slash credit score card limitations apply. Nate Blowyer,
James Jones and b J I'm strong. I'll joined us
on the Discover Card Guest hotline, Dan by what he

(01:47:19):
got Doug the executive director or the Pro Football Hall
of Fame, David Baker. Dave Baker that is a big
human being, real big guy spoke with the USA today
about the possibilities of the changing landscape in the world
of sports and the possibilities of maybe moving Hall of
Fame weekend. We know what kind of kicks off the
NFL preseason with the Hall of Fame game and the

(01:47:42):
enshrinement ceremonies. Baker says, right now, they've got about five
contingency plans. Now. Right now, the the plan everything is
going on schedule. Cowboys and Steelers would play in that
Hall of Fame game. But here are a couple of
the options. One could be moving that Hall of Fame
game in the enshrinement ceremonies to later on in August,
so it wouldn't be the thing to start it. You
would have it just later on in the preseason. They

(01:48:04):
could also delay the enshrinement ceremonies to Easter weekend of
one obviously wouldn't have a game, but you would be
able to enshrine that class, or next year have a
double class, which would actually be a lot more because
remember this was supposed to be that you have that
big twenty member class and then the additional class. But
they could do to uh instrinment classes in the summer

(01:48:26):
of Can you imagine how many speeches like they'd have
to start like a dune and wrap it up with
these guys. Um, I don't know, man, I hope they
can do in August. You know, I just we just
have no idea. I do like that he wants to
do in front of a live audience. He doesn't want
to do the virtual thing because that doesn't really fit
and obviously they need to get people in the building.

(01:48:47):
Big Dave Baker is a friend. I've KNOWMB for a
long time. He's first as a massive figure, but a
great guy. And remember when he ran the Arena Football League.
That's back when they are the football league was big.
He he everything he does is big. He's been brilliant
with what them in the marketing plan has done it.
They'll they'll, they'll figure this thing out and someday he'll
be knocking on the hotel room of John Ramos giving

(01:49:08):
him the call to the Hall of Fame or not.
Frank or is probably gonna get that knocked though. Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely,
no brainer. Yes, Frank Gore will be I mean, I
guess is he ever the best back in the league? No?
But you know what's amazing about Frank Gore? So like

(01:49:32):
that's it, Like you talk about the wear and tear
of a running back like that was the question about
him coming into the league. Now he's about to enter
season sixteen and he's thirty seven years old and signed
a one year deal with the Jets. That's amazing. He's played.
He's played for three of the four teams in the
NFC East. In the last year, right, Dolphins, two years ago,

(01:49:53):
Bill's last year, and this year Jets. He's fourteen hundred
yards behind Walter Payton. He had about I think just
under six hundred yards last year. I don't fame. Oh,
I think I think he's getting into the Hall of
Fame for sure, but but I don't know if he's
gonna catch Walter Payton for a second. That's okay. Here,

(01:50:14):
here's here's a question. Who is a who is more
Hall of Fame worthy? Priest Holmes or uh uh Frank Well,
Frank Gore's career is very long, and Doug, if you
know anything about me, I am a strong proponent of

(01:50:35):
the multifaceted running back in the National Football League. Okay,
I believe that Tiki Barber, Warrick Dunn, Fred Taylor, uh
Ricky Waters, Edgar and James House. Yeah, like those guys
that was the back. But yet we reward Jerome Bettis
because he was a big guy and people loved him

(01:50:55):
one couple of Super Bowl in Detroit. Do you know
he's from Detroit. Yeah, such a huge role in that.
The point being is, I do think that, like the
the value of that running back, like if Priest Holmes
is very valuable. But I mean Frank Gore's numbers are
I mean even he's not even a compiler because he's

(01:51:16):
gone so long, like he you know, had really good
years as well. So okay, so I didn't you didn't
ask my question. I think they both should get in,
but you can only pick one, then I'd give it
to Frank Gore. The Terrell Davis argument, that's that's the
Priest Holmes argument. Tarrell Davison and and and Priest Holmes
was as good or better than Tarrell Davis in the
same amount of the same amount of time. He just

(01:51:38):
didn't win a superple. Yeah, and you could there were
there was a thirty six month period where Terrell Davis
was the best, you know player in the National Football League.
But outside of that, you're like, but yet he was
a Hall of Famer, all right? Moving on, the Raiders
cut uh quarterback to Shaun Kaiser. Today, the Las Vegas Raiders.
I'm trying to just say that more and more to
get used to kaysess is it? Kids? Is sys? Have

(01:52:01):
you seen that movie? Man? No? What what movies that?
Usual Suspects? No? I haven't seen it. What do you
do you have anything tonight? Um? Well, it's my anniversary
tomorrow to fifteen minutes, Oh dinner, Come on, that's cold,

(01:52:23):
that's cold. I'm in fifteen minutes four and fifteen minutes
after I had a half hour Giants sent quarterback Cooper.
Usual Suspects? Watch use that. That's one of my one
of the greatest movies ever made. I don't know. Yep,
you trust me? Do you trust me? Yes? Ramas? How good?
Usual Suspects? It's a very good movie. Yes, very good movie.

(01:52:45):
Let me guess they won't. It's a movie about some guys,
but they're not gonna be the Usual Suspects. Interesting, it's
a very good movie. Who is it? Where a rogue lawyer,

(01:53:06):
a rogue lawyer looking the police force couldn't do it? No,
this is so good, Kobayashi, guys are so is? You
have to watch this movie? All right, we'll do Happy
anniversary to you and Lisa, Thank you. Net's owner Joe

(01:53:26):
Side told the Virtual Classroom at Stanford last week that
not all NBA owners are on the same page when
it comes to resuming their season. He says that he's
kind of under a gag order by Adam Silver to
not talk about what's going on and what's going to
happen with the season, but says, yeah, of course teams
like the Lakers and Bucks want to resume the season,
but he's gotten a sense that other teams that aren't

(01:53:48):
in the playoff hunt would rather focus on next year. Yeah, listen,
we tanked, we got the number one, we got the
most ping pong balls were good here, and that's the
pressure and pressed was the press, right, nod a question?
Guess what we got bonus? It's double bonus. What's the question, Dan,

(01:54:11):
When you say he's kind of under a gag order,
do we know exactly what that means? Because being kind
of under like that, that's I'm not supposed to say nothing,
but listen to some of these other guys not named me,
I don't want to play any of the season. That's
I know my boss doesn't want me talking about this,
but half the league doesn't want to play anymore. But
don't say that because I wasn't really supposed to say that.

(01:54:33):
That's that's what he's saying. I think it's it's kind
of under a gag order. I don't I've argued this,
because I've argued this on my Sunday show. I have
no idea why in the world the Atlanta Hawks would
want to put Trey Young on the court for six
meaningless games if they were to result the season the
league that those teams at stink. You know that they're done? Yeah,

(01:54:53):
I got it, you got give me one more? Yeah,
of course it's double press sixers. GM mountain Brand says
he's optimistic Ben Simmons will be able to play when
the NBA season resumes, saying Simmons is quote doing really
really well and quote in his return for me nerve
and benchment in his back. Can he shoot? All this

(01:55:14):
time to work on his shooting right? Can he shoot? Finally,
Doug will wrap this up with a tennis story. Rafael Nadal,
the nineteen time Grand Slam champion, says he's more concerned
about the one tennis season than he is of fitting
in a season. Of course, there was talk recently that
they could move the U s open to Indian wells

(01:55:35):
of the desert here in southern California, gift needed. But yeah,
Rafael Nadal, since the season is practically lost, there's gonna
be no Wimbledon. Uh, the Austie opens already been played.
That he'd rather look ahead to a full season, and
that's your double pressure the press. Michael Jordan's was a

(01:55:57):
rocket ship out of control of success, right, and the
entire thing is not likely to or will not ever
be repeated. It just won't. Guys don't go to school McDonald's.
All Americans don't go to school for three years, right,
even if you're playing for Dean Smith, like all of

(01:56:18):
the different making. If a guy makes a game winning
shot his freshman or to win a national championship, he
ain't come back to school the next year. He's not um.
You have to remember that Jordan's success and rise also
culminated with the success of the n c A tournament,

(01:56:39):
the fact that Bird and Magic had saved the NBA,
the advent of cable television, the beginnings of Nike Gatorade
in terms of their long standing corporate success, and there
wasn't the social media to bring up the negativity as
Michael Jordan's said, stop looking for the next Michael Jordan.

(01:56:59):
He ain't any And it's not just because of Jordan
and his dominance. It's because of all these other factors.
All right back tomorrow, Daniel jeremileh join us in The
Doug Otip Show, Fox Sport Tradio

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Doug Gottlieb

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