3 and Out - MNF Barnburner, Changes in Carolina, Trouble in The Big Apple - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. Can you believe we're this deep into the
NFL season? We got to make every second count. With
Draftking Sportsbook, you can make the most out of every game.
Bet on your favorite teams for a shot at winning
big bucks. New customers can score one hundred and fifty
instantly in bonus bets for betting five dollars on any

(00:23):
matchup so right now get in on the action with
Draftking Sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL.
Download the app now and use the code John. New
customers can score one hundred and fifty instantly in bonus
bets for betting just five bucks on the NFL. Only
on Draftking Sportsbook with code John. The crown is yours.
Gambling problem called winne hundred gambler In New York call

(00:46):
eight seven seven eight hope and y or text hope
and why four six seven three six nine. In West Virginia,
visit WW dot one eight one hundred gambler dot net.
Please play responsibly. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling.
Call eighty eight seventy nine seven seven seven seven or
visit CCPG dot org on behalf of Bootyll Casino in

(01:06):
resort Kansas must be twenty one or older in eligible states,
but ages vary by jurisdiction. See DraftKings dot com slash
sportsbook for details and state specific responsible gambling resources, Eligibility
and deposit restrictions apply. Bonus bets expire one hundred and
sixty eight hours after issueits terms at sportsbook dot DraftKings
dot com slash football terms. What is going on everybody,

(01:40):
John Middlecoff three and Out podcast, How are we doing?
Just watch the little Monday Night Football? What a game?
Some may say, uh, probably not many, but we'll discuss fields.
Josh Dobbs, Frank Reich fired by David Tepper. The Giants

(02:00):
have some drama, some other stuff going on around the
NFL we will dive into. So a lot of football
talk coming up, as well as the mail bag at
John Middlecoff, So fire in those dms, get your question
answered on the show. We got a new YouTube channel,
so make sure you subscribe. John Middlecoff three and Out
got the all of our podcast stuff is up there
and mail bag and everything we do as well as Yeah,

(02:24):
subscribe to the pod if you listen on Collins Feed.
Appreciate everyone that has pretty fired up to talks and football.
So before we dive into Bears, vikings and the rest
of everything I want to talk about, I got to
tell you about a little app and it goes by
game time. So go to your app store, download the app,
and when you do, there the official ticketing app of

(02:44):
this podcast. They have tickets to everything games, every sport, college,
pro concerts, comedy shows. Get out and do something. It's
the holiday season. Go buy a family. You want to
give a gift this holiday season? How about you buy
a a father. Uh, you know, if you're a lady,
your husband, your boyfriend, if you want to do something

(03:07):
for a coworker, if you want to do something for
an employee, and do it on us. Download the game
Time app promo code John promo code JOHNN. You get
twenty dollars off your first pair of tickets. Go enjoy yourself,
give a present. This is the month's we're not quite
in December of giving. Feel good about yourself and save
a little money while you're at it. Game Time Official
Ticketing App Promo co John. I'm not gonna spend two

(03:28):
much time on this Monday night football barn Burner. I
don't know if you could quite describe it like that.
It was a rough watch. There's no way around it.
The NFL has been discussing flexing this game for a
long period of time. It is difficult logistically. You know,
we talk a lot about the fans and travel. A

(03:50):
lot of it is the team. You know, to find
out that you have to change your travel setup from
Sunday to Monday is not easy. This is not baseball
or basketball where you stay in cities consistently on the road.
In football, you're there in your back and you set
up these travel you know, six months in advance. So

(04:12):
I know they've discussed it, and I eventually think we'll
see a game or two, and this would be the
type game that they gladly would because, let's face it,
no offense Bears fans, and I know none is taken
and Vikings fans ever since Cousins rolled out or was
ruled out with the torn achilles, you're rolling out. Joshua Dobbs,
who a lot of respect for it, and we'll dive
into him in a second. This game is a morning

(04:33):
game on Sunday morning, right, and sometimes you get these
late in the season on Monday. Now listen, I can
make fun of this game all we want. I looked
there were five NBA games tonight and there were six
NHL games, so we can talk shit about this, and
I would. I mean, this was a rough watch. Everyone agrees,
But if you combined the viewership of all eleven outings

(04:56):
in the other two professional leagues in this country, they
would not equal the amount of people that just watched
that game, And honestly, when the numbers come out, it
might not even be that close if you can combine
all the viewership, so we can shit on it, we
can make fun of it. We're all watching it, so
we just I gotta find ways to enjoy it, and
I gotta find ways to talk about it. And I

(05:16):
think when it comes to the Bears, it's not very
difficult to discuss because I get on X. As my
mom calls it, she's like, you got the X app? Like, yeah, Mom,
you mean Twitter. It was good rebrand by Elon. He's
even got my mom calling it X and everyone is
just always up in arms. For some reason. I follow
several Bears radio hosts, you know, just Bears fans, and

(05:40):
everyone's always bitching and moaning about the head coach who
is now seven and twenty two in his career. Troy
Aikman tonight, you know ebra Flus was a longtime cowboy
assistant was waxing poetic about keep him around. He's a
good coach's like Troy. He lost fourteen straight games. He
might be a good defensive coach. He's not a good
head coach. The offensive coordinator is clearly not very good,

(06:05):
and the quarterback, let's face it, isn't very good. Here's
a reality. None of those guys are gonna be there
next year. Not a fucking soul. They're gonna have the
number one overall pick. To me, the only question is
Ryan Poles in the press box with his EarPods in,
and to me, is he listening to the game broadcast,
meaning the radio broadcast from the Chicago side, or is

(06:28):
he listening to his coordinator's call plays. I don't know.
Fascinating question, but those guys are all done. It's over.
This team fucking sucks. This quarterback isn't that good. Listen.
Ebra Flus destined to be a coordinator for someone, Getzi,
no clue, don't really care. Do you know what Justin

(06:48):
Fields is? He is a guy that another team Atlanta,
New England maybe the Raiders. There are a lot of
teams out there that are gonna come around free agency
and then aren't gonna potentially have a high enough pick.
Maybe they don't like the guys that are gonna be
there when they draft, or have a pretty good idea
enough to feel great about not doing something in free agency. Well,

(07:11):
look around the free agent quarterbacks. There aren't gonna be
any good ones. The best one by a mile is
going to be a thirty six year old coming off
of torn achilles, which I would imagine Minnesota. Maybe they
do a smaller deal coming off of achilles, keep him around,
but who knows. But teams are going to be hesitant
to pay anything of substance with a guy with that injury.

(07:32):
To me, justin Fields, can I just get the guy
on basically a one year contract. No one's picking up
his fifth year option for like a mid round pick,
because to me, that's kind of what he is and
I'm not guaranteeing my starter like that. That's where he's
played his way out of it. He is no longer
viewed around the NFL as a starting quarterback. If you
want to be good, it doesn't mean if you're given
situation that he can't win the starting quarterback job. But

(07:55):
like we're all watching it, he's just he's closer to
a running back, but not really because he hit along
the fucking football, great athlete, big arm. I loved him
coming out of college. I was wrong. We can blame
the offensive coordinator all you want. I don't think if
you put him with Andy Reid or Sean McVay or
Kyle Shanahan that he would look like some really good player.

(08:16):
I think he kind of is what he is. He's
just a raw, toolsy guy who's not a natural quarterback,
and you feel when you want he holds the ball
too long, throws it to the wrong spots, pretty inaccurate.
Now he can make some wow plays. He can make
some fantastic plays on the move. He's actually really good
throwing across his body to his left. But he's not

(08:36):
gonna be the quarterback in Chicago next year. Zero chance. Obviously,
they've played themselves out of it a little bit with
their pick, but it doesn't matter. They have Carolinas, so
Caleb Williams, who listen. Drake May, who I was high on,
was not good down the stretch of the college football season.
His stock is trending down. Caleb Williams is gonna be
the starting quarterback next year for the Chigo Bears. To me,

(08:57):
the only question is who's gonna be the coach? Because
I would say Harbas should be all over this, but
look who they typically hire assistant coaches that don't cost
that much relative to a guy like him, So I
don't have that much faith that he's going to be
the coach. So I would say, I don't know, I
have no clue, but I know that the Eberflus is
not going to be and I know that Justin Fields

(09:18):
is not going to be there as well. So we
can argue all day long every time the Bears are
playing God that Justin Fields and the scheme and the
coach who cares. It's all irrelevant and on the Minnesota vikings.
In football, it's not that complicated, right. There are your
star players, which in a league full of one percenters, Right,
Such a small percentage of people in college football ever

(09:41):
make it to the pros, just like a tiny percentage
of people in high school ever make it to play
Division I college football. So it's it's the elite of
the elite. And then in that group. There is a
group that separates, right the star players, the all pro
level guys, and the gap between them and the rest
of the field is pretty wide, right, the gap between Mahomes,

(10:05):
josh Allen, Herbert Lamar, Jalen Hurts, like that group all
the really good players relative to like the twenty third
best quarterback in the NFL is fucking whiter than the
Grand Canyon. And then the gap between you know, the
star players and the backup quarterbacks is just dramatic. In
anytime that you force a backup, whether it's your linebacker,

(10:27):
whether it's your guard, whether it's your slot receiver to
play in a given game, they can play well. You
could start a backup on a given game and he
could give you two sacks, or score two touchdowns, or
have an interception and a force fumble. Like they can
make plays happens all the time. But over the course
of a season, if I have to start a backup

(10:49):
over and over and over again, it will not work
and that guy will get exposed. That's the reason he's
a backup. And I think you see that with Joshua Dop,
who to me is a fantastic backup quarterback. If I
feel very good about my starter. If I'm Andy Reid,
if I'm the Bills, if I'm the Ravens, if I

(11:11):
have any of these teams, if I'm like the Eagles
right now Marcus Mariota is their backup, I would much
rather have Dobs. But part of the comfort he gives
me is, let's face it, if any of those guys
go down for the season, we're all done. Like the
likelihood of ever having Brock Purty as your third string
quarterback and being able to have injury after injury and

(11:33):
still being able to make the playoffs is an outlier situation.
It's crazy that that happened. That is not normal. Usually
your backup quarterback is just a random guy, and ideally
he only has to play a game, maybe two starts,
right like Chad Henny for Patrick Mahomes, keep the ship
above water for when Mike Starter gets back. And to me,

(11:55):
that's what Joshua Dobbs is. So everyone making fun of
him that he's running. No, He's had some good moments
as the starter with Minnesota and with Arizona, But the
more accumulation that the other team gets a film on him,
and the more that he has to play, the more.
He's gonna be exposed football one on one. I don't
think any less of Joshua Dobbs just because he throws

(12:18):
ten interceptions on Monday Night football. Right, He's gonna have
those games. That's what any backup quarterback in the NFL
will have. And when you see these guys around the league,
who you know some people have ben starters like Derek Carr.
Derek Carr got paid a lot of money to be
good on the Saints. He's no longer any good to me.
He's trending to be a really good backup. He's no

(12:40):
longer a starter who you feel good about. Now he
would be on the high end of backups, right. Baker
Mayfield another example. Baker Mayfield is a backup now. He's
starting every game. But just because you start every game
doesn't mean that, like truly, you would be a starting
quarterback on a good team, because you would not. If
you were, your team would be good. So I got

(13:01):
a lot of respect for Joshua Dobbs. Everything he's done
this season, and like tonight, doesn't make me feel any
different about him. If I was a team next year
and had a highly paid quarterback, I would love to
try to get him for two or three million dollars
to be my backup quarterback. Cause again, if that guy
goes down for the season, my season is over. But
if Jalen hurts, rolls an ankle, or like last year

(13:23):
when he missed a couple games, and Dobbs is my
backup quarterback, I feel good about it. I feel good
about him in the locker room. I feel good about
him on the field. I feel good about his knowledge
in the playbook. I think he's clearly one of the
best backups. Okay, let's start with the Panthers and everything
that happened to day with Frank And it had been
brewing for a couple of weeks. Jay Glazer, who has

(13:44):
been talking about it on Fox, that his seat was
getting really hot, and basically that you know, he was
in trouble. And this was a couple weeks ago, and
then we learned this morning on Monday morning that he
was fired. And I saw this study. At first, I
got a theory that there was a study that's making

(14:05):
the rounds on the interweb about good looking people and
how they're more likely to make more money. And you
would think, like God, good looking women, you know, make
more money than uglier women. It was actually about men.
Good looking men make more money, which kind of makes
sense right in any field. I'm not talking like acting,
I'm talking in any field. And I don't know exactly

(14:27):
how this study was done. Maybe it was based on
job bone, but yeah, I could see that, and I
kind of was thinking. I kind of have a theory that,
you know, former players that become head coaches have this
ability when they walk in the room to just have
a lot of alpha, have a lot of just machismo

(14:47):
that even if you were a super rich guy, there's
like intimidation might even be the wrong word, but there's
just like, damn, that is a dude. Like if you've
ever been in a room and Mike Vrabel or Jim
Harbaugh walk in, You're like, goddamn, that's a fucking that's
a big dude right there, and you just kind of
stop and look right. And I think you've seen two coaches,

(15:12):
one who was just fired today and another guy that's
gonna get fired. They both kind of have that as well.
Like Frank Reich is a big dude. So when he
walks in the room last year with David Tepper or
I guess it was earlier this year and David had
just blown everyone out right and needed a head coach,
even though his resume in recent years had been pretty ugly.

(15:32):
And Frank is not like part of Harball and Mike
Vrabel and even Ron. There's kind of like this red
ass craziness to him. That's not Frank known as a
super nice guy. But he does have this like walk
in the room. He looks the part. So if you're
this guy worth billions of dollars, you see a guy,
the guy you just fired Matt Ruhle does not look

(15:54):
the part. You did not give the job to Steve wilk,
so you're kind of looking you want a guy with
little NFL. My theory is when you're a former player,
you're much more likely to get that second opportunity very fast.
And we've seen it obviously. Vrabel is good, Harbaugh is good.
Ron Rivera is not. He has three winning seasons in
thirteen years, but he got fired and then immediately got

(16:16):
another job because when he walks in the room, like
for an owner, it's like yeah and they and especially
when you're an articulate come from a good school. I mean,
Ron's a cow guy. I don't even know where Frank
went to school, but he just kind of feels like
a smart, intellectual guy. He stinks he is a terrible,
terrible coach. Whenever I hear people trying to defend him,

(16:37):
I go Frank would be one of the last guys
I would want as my coach. Great guy. I'd want
him around my quarterback, maybe as a position coach, but
to be my head coach. I've never seen it when
he got hired, when Josh McDaniels tapped out, he had
never He wasn't getting head coaching interviews hell John d

(16:58):
Philippo at the time. Their quarter was the guy in
the mix. So I've never quite understood it. It was
baffling when they made the hire. Now I'll get Frank this.
He hired a lot of good assistants, spent three years
around Duce Staley. He's easily one of the best assistant
coaches I've ever seen. Honestly, might be the best position

(17:18):
coach I've ever been around. Now, when I saw they
fired him, it pissed me off, but I do when
I take a step back, take a deep breath, I
get it. He fired Duce Daley and Josh McCown, Well,
who are those guys. Those guys are Frank guys, right,
So part of it is like those guys are going
to be loyal to Frank. Don't blame you. That's the
way you know. Loyalty works, right. Be loyal to your family,

(17:41):
be loyal to your business partners, be loyal to the
people who bring you up. Like, I get it, But
I think David Tepper has no freaking clue what he's
doing right now. None great investor, historical amount of money made,
he paid cash for the team, His business story is incredible.

(18:01):
But I've seen a lot of people saying he the
modern day Dan Snyder, and I kind of laugh at
that if you google Dan Snyder, because I was in
like junior high when he bought the team. Dan Snyder
made his money very very early. Dan Snyder was loaded
in his early thirties, Pretty sure he bought the Washington

(18:22):
they were Redskins at the time, like at like thirty
five years old. Could be a little off on my age,
but he was young. So if you get rich really
early and you're crazy, like Mark Cuban was crazy, got
his money early. David Tepper is sixty six years old,
he's been rich for a while. When he took over
this team, he had been around the Steelers for a
long period of time. Now, part of it is maybe

(18:45):
when he was around the Steelers, and listen, anyone who
has mentored from someone who's successful. Just because you look
up to that guy doesn't mean you agree with everything
they do. And part of it is like they hired
Mike Tomlin. It worked. He hired like, I can't blame
him for firing Frank. I can't. Frank is awful. He's

(19:05):
not a very good head coach. That's objectively speaking. He's
won thirteen games the last three seasons as a head coach.
No one ever is gonna get fired in back to
back seasons in the middle of the season. Urban Meyer
lasted more games than this guy. Now, is David Tepper
the reason that they drafted Bryce Young Because if that's
the case, like, that's a shit show of an organization.

(19:29):
They tried to hire the Lions offensive coordinator last year.
He told him the kick Rocks he wasn't interested, So
why would he be interested? Now? To me, a lot
like the Bears, you need to blow this thing up,
But it's a lot easier to blow up the Bears
when you got one top ten pick and the other
number one overall pick. Plus you got some good pieces,
got some defensive lineman, you got a corner, you got
DJ Moore, you got some stuff to work with. Carolina

(19:53):
is little to nothing to work with and a quarterback that,
let's face it looks tiny like the convererce. Now. I
was thinking about this the other day watching the Houston
Jacksonville game. Isn't It's not CJ versus Bryce. CG has
nothing in common with Bryce. Especially today, It's like CJ.
Would you rather have CJ Stroud or Trevor Lawrence. That's

(20:14):
a conversation I was thinking today, and I would be like,
if you factor in the contract, CJ's in year one,
Trevor's you know, in your three, so you're gonna pay
him sooner. I'd rather have CJ Stroud. So the conversation
between the two guys, Now, would CJ look as good
with Frank and that offense? No, but no one could
dispute if you just watch the two guys who you'd

(20:35):
rather take? And if it is true that coaching staff
wanted CJ. Remember Josh McCown looked at him at the
pro day, like we got to talk about places to
live or places to eat. I forget exactly what he said,
but everyone's not like, oh, they're gonna drave CJ. Stroud.
And then the owner gets involved, because when you're super
rich and old, you usually think you know a lot,

(20:56):
even if there are times you don't. We all know people,
or I would imagine most people listening that have some
formal wealth, not billions of dollars. But it might just
be a small business owner that's doing well that does
not need help from anybody, makes decent coin. I would
imagine if that guy's in his sixties or seventies, he's
not mister progressive when it comes to ideas in terms

(21:18):
of his business. Why would he? He knows what works.
So that's what makes it very complicated for these guys.
David Tepper's like, I just fucking paid two billion dollars
in cash. I remember when he bought the team, he
sold like seven hundred and eighty million dollars with the
applestock to pay for the transaction. You think this guy
is gonna look at these football coaches or a general

(21:39):
manager that's been scouting and beating the bushes for the
last ten years, like they know more about just operating
than him, even though he should. And in football, the
best organizations hire someone than them and let them cook.
What's Jerry Jones' biggest mistake? Dies ego got in the
way of Jimmy Johnson, right, Like, why did Bill Walsh
have a mental breakdown because Eddie de Bartolo was in

(22:01):
his ass every single day? Say what you want about
the Crafts and Belichick in that situation right now, it's ugly,
it really is. But for twenty years, once Bill proved
like I know what I'm doing, they were hands off.
They let him do whatever he wanted. You want to
trade Logan Mankins, you want to trade Richard Seymour, you
want to trade He did moves over and over that.

(22:23):
People were like, is Bill freaking insane? And be like,
well he's got four super Bowls? Let him do Bill Belichick.
And by the end people are like, Okay, let him
do it. And that's why they want a lot. Now
are most team's going to have that level of success?
Of course not. But the only chance you have as
an NFL operation is to hire the right people, which

(22:44):
is hard. I saw an athletic headline this just proves
that owners don't know what they're looking for with head coaches,
of course not. It's no different like general managers know
what they're looking for with quarterbacks. This is a human business, right,
This is if if it was up to David Temper
to acquire a company like I saw a quote that

(23:04):
he had like six months ago. He put a lot
of money in Uber, you knew, copied him Your boy
right here? You do turn you know, decent amount of
money into about thirty percent more Your boy right here.
Guess what, It's still going up. Uber's been by far
my best investment over the last six months, all because
I was reading this finance article and David Temper put

(23:27):
an astronomical amount of money like Dahn gonna fall his lead,
And I did it, and it's worked out pretty well
because I have a lot of stocks that are in
the tank. But when it comes to the football stuff,
he's fucking clueless. He is, I you know, most people
in his situation probably would be too. And I know
he's getting quoted on Twitter screaming f words like I
don't blame him. It sucks pay all this money and

(23:50):
you're a laughing stock. It can't be easy. He's used
to paying a lot of money and then getting more
money back. That's not the way this works when it
comes to football Giants. I got a text today from
a buddy and he said, have you recorded your podcast yet?
I said, I have not, so I'm gonna record the
bulk of it after the Money Night football game. He's like,

(24:12):
are you going to talk about Wink and day Ball?
I was like, yeah, I think I was going to.
I'm probably gonna, you know, Wink, big ego guy, you know,
button heads. I could see it not being easy, and
he's like, pump the brakes, bro, you're way off and listen.
I'm not one this podcast. Nine percent of it is opinions,

(24:33):
and a decent amount of them are based on things
that I hear, and I shape my opinions off the league.
This will just legit information. I don't know anyone with
the Giants know nobody with the Giants. Don't have any
inside information there normally, like so when I talk about him,
it's all just watching him from the outside. So when
I saw the report that Wink and Brian Dayball hate

(24:53):
each other, I just said, well, you remember Wink and
Harball got after it and they let him walk. He
wanted a lot of money, but winks an older guy,
very good, big ego guy. Maybe there's button heads. And
he said, let me tell you this. That coaching staff
can't stand Brian Dable. The defensive coaching staff despises Brian Dable.

(25:16):
They think he's a clown. And yesterday he's like, look
at that video that went out when day ball, who's
you know this is not this is what I'm being told,
which I say is very credible that Brian Daball pretty
into Brian Daball and you know, might be one of
the first guys out the door, take some cigar breaks

(25:37):
during the workdays. And he's a guy, and this has
been reported that he constantly is mfing the coaches. It's
one thing if you're an if you are a screamer
and a yeller, to yell at younger coaches or even
some of your position coaches. It's another thing to constantly
yelling and motherfucking wink Martindale. And he definitely, from what

(25:57):
I was told, does that. So those guys can't stand
it because they say that's all he does. He doesn't
not for any solutions, so he's just screaming, and he's
not actually saying like what he wants them to fix.
And it's one thing, this is not something that just
happened either this year when they started losing. I was
told it was awful last year, like that building can't

(26:18):
stand him, I'm telling you, And I was like, god,
I didn't know that. I just Brian Dave ball from
the outside, bald guy who's kind of rooting for him.
You find out this is his style. But then to
the players, he kisses nice because he doesn't want to revolt.
So the players have no issue with him, but the
coaches not good. And when you watch that video, what
did he do? Throws the ball to him knowing the

(26:40):
camera's on. There was no bro hug, there was no embrace,
Like when you really watch it, you go, is this
kind of contrived? If anything, I heard, I bet Wink
is even more pissed than he did that to him.
So this situation and this listen, this goes on all
around the league. A lot of assistant coaches don't like
their head coach. But when you're a head coach, and listen,

(27:03):
football is an aggressive sport, whether it's players, players, players, coaches, coaches, coaches,
it's uncomfortable constantly. That's not abnormal. Belichick, Nick Saban keep
people on their toes, but they know everything they're talking about.
So when you start screaming at people, which is you know,

(27:24):
some coaches style, you better not just scream to scream like, well,
what do you fucking think we should do? You're the boss,
tell us right, And then when they don't think, you know,
they start thinking you're a fraud. And I'm just telling you,
this thing in New York is a little weirder than
you think. I didn't know much about it. I hadn't
even thought about it, honestly, didn't care, just because they'd

(27:46):
been so terrible. But when I hear this, like, it's
gonna be awfully interesting how this thing ends, because if
that's your reputation, right, it's listen, Belichick had a reputation
for being a disaster, right, but people players wanted to
when I say a disaster meaning like is gonna suck?
This is really but you know what you were guaranteed
for twenty years to fucking win and change the course

(28:09):
of your career as an assistant coach, as a player,
anyone associated with that organization. When I don't think you're
any good and then we're losing. Absolute train wreck and
that's really what the Giants have been and if they're
not playing Mac Jones yesterday, and part of it is this,
you start screaming at the defense, who now for two
years has been pretty good. Your offense is the disaster.

(28:31):
But he doesn't even call the offense. So I don't know.
I just some of this stuff I'm hearing on Brian
day Ball is not great. And that that story that
I don't know who put it out, Jay Glazer or
someone I think has a lot of merit to it.
Animosity from what I've heard, is not even close to
strong enough of a way to describe the situation. Hurt

(28:55):
is bad. Heard, it's really bad. And listen, there are
probably other situations right the NFL that are the same.
It just hasn't leaked out. And you're talking about people
that make a lot of money, big egos. When you lose,
man that you can't hide it. You can't. It's one
thing when you win, you just keep your head down,
you keep swinging toward the next game. When you lose,
that comes to a head. And I think we're seeing

(29:18):
that happen like that. That didn't leak randomly. Someone wanted
it out. And I'm telling you that defensive staff, if
they were let out of their contracts yesterday, they'd be gone.
They'd be running to the hill so fast your head
would spend a couple other things around the league. One
thing I felt pretty good about coming into the season,
and I've just I've nailed listen. I've missed on some

(29:40):
takes and I'm gonna miss on many more. But I've
never liked mac Jones. And I said that Mac Jones
was gonna get everyone fired. And it's not even worse
than I thought. I mean, I saw a lot of
people that cover the team calling it his worst half ever.
That feels strong to me. But it was pretty bad.
He's not any good. Now we can say it's confidence

(30:00):
and Bill messing with him. When you're not good enough,
you don't deserve to have your handheld when you don't
show any promise or any hope. I don't. I don't
just have to build up your confidence. This is the pros,
this is the big leagues as a rookie or whatever.
When I'm trying to build you up and figure out
what you have. But after a while you have to

(30:21):
show something like this is a two way street. So
Bill last week splitting the reps and I don't blame
him at all. Now still going with Mac Jones, like
maybe he can getch lightning in a bottle. He can't.
He's not any good. He's he's god awful. And like
Justin Fields, he's not gonna be on that team next year.
And I think it's pretty clear that Bill Belichick is
not going to be on that team either. Listen, quarterback

(30:43):
win loss records, like they always say that the win
the win or the loss, Like your win loss record
is not a quarterback stat. And if you're a good
player and you play for a long time, I kind
of push back on that, eventually you're gonna be a winner. Right.
You could have a rough season, But if you're a
good player, like if Justin Herbert is who Justin Herbert,

(31:05):
we think he's gonna be even with the Chargers, He's
gonna find a way to win games as they change coaches. Right,
And yesterday is a good example. Josh Allen lost the game.
I was thinking a lot about this today. I technically
could have played a little better because he threw the pick,
but he was fucking incredible, and that game is gonna

(31:26):
be an l on his record when his defense screwed
him twice that final drive in regulation. I never understand
when in a situation where, especially if it's a bad
weather game and they got to drive the field just
to get in field goal range, when you start playing
very very conservatively in like a prevent defense, you're just

(31:47):
giving plays and you're just giving free yards, and if
they have a couple timeouts and they can get thirty
forty yards pretty quickly. And when you're playing a team
with good skill guys, all it takes is a broken tackle.
All it takes is a missed you know, a juke
in space for a ten yard game to turn into

(32:08):
a twenty three yard game, and all of a sudden,
I flipped the field. So I hate it when teams
change their defensive strategy just because they're scared. And then
that final drive, like he put him in position, he
completed a ball to Digs that got knocked out. Obviously
him and Davis weren't on the same page on that play.

(32:28):
I don't know exactly who was wrong, but either way,
you can't watch that game and go that guy's not
a superstar because he is. And part of football is
like you need a good defense if your defense sucks
and you're lighting up the other team. Like one thing
Jalen has is his defense just periodically makes some place.

(32:49):
And obviously he's a stud, right, just like a lot
like Josh Allen. He is just a superstar and you
just have faith in him. They'll figure it out in
every single game. He's Honestly, the more and more I
thought about it, I think he's my favorite player in
the league, just in terms of I love everything he
stands for the way he conducts himself. There was that
video of when Elliott hit the field goal. He didn't

(33:13):
even budge. He feels like he never celebrates even the
game winner. He just kind of looked at the crowd.
I love that. Maybe it's like an homage to the
way my dad raised me to be. I just I
have a lot of respect for the way he operates
mentally and physically. I mean, when it's just not going
well and he's kind of limping around, he just fucking
finds a way. Jalen Hurts is a certified badass. And

(33:37):
that game, same with Josh Allen. That that game, those
two quarterbacks were basically the complete opposite of what we
watched tonight. Last but not least, if you're a Bills fan,
if you're a Cowboy fan, if you're an Eagles fan,
if you're a Niner fan, if you're you know, a
Patriot fan that remembers the good old days, or a
Bronco fan. When Peyton Manning was, you know, the quarterback,

(33:57):
can you imagine celebrating a game. It's like, listen, I
know we scored sixteen points, but we had four hundred
plus yards of offense. I was thinking about it when
let's use the Niners for example, because I watched them
so closely. If whenever they score sixteen seventeen points, which
they did a couple straight games against the Bengals and

(34:19):
the Browns and the Vikings, no one talked about the yards,
right because it didn't matter, Like why can't we score
more points? Red zone turnovers, red zone inefficiency? Like what
happened just party against the Bengals, for example, through for
like three hundred and fifty yards, but they scored seventeen points.
It's like all we talked seventeen points, seventeen points, seventeen points.

(34:39):
The Steelers wanted to throw a party because they accounted
for over four hundred yards of offense. You guys scored
sixteen fucking points. I mean, how could you be excited? Like, listen,
the point of the NFL find a way to win.
You don't get style points. But they are doing way
too much celebrating. I don't feel any better about that.

(35:00):
I don't care how many yards pick it through for.
I don't care how much better this new coordinator is.
If they're going to struggle like they have been to
score twenty points in every game, they're going nowhere. Now
if they could convert four hundred and fifty yards into
twenty seven points moving forward, then yeah, we're talking about
a different team. But like, what the hell changed against
Cincinnati Bengals scored sixteen freaking points. They were one of

(35:24):
four in the red zone. I just if that's where
you're at, And I would imagine most Steeler fans aren't
like super happy. I mean, they're happy that Canada's gone,
but aren't just annoying the franchise because they found a
way to be productive from the twenty to the twenty
yard line. But I think we need to pump the
brakes until we get twenty five points up on up

(35:47):
there on the scoreboard. Let's get to the player that
made it look easy, Morgan and Morgan and I just
talked about him, but I'm gonna talk about him again.
No player that I remember can look And maybe it's
this year because he's been banged up. Maybe it's a
Super Bowl hangar. I don't know, but maybe it's the

(36:08):
new offensive coordinator consistently is bad early in the game.
I mean, Jalen Hurts. I can't count how many games
I've watched this season in the first half where you're like,
what are we doing? This is where is the Jalen
Hurts that we saw last year? What is going on?
You're like, God, is this Did they screw up? They

(36:30):
pay him too much money? But his body language never changes.
He was like, miss the play or just walk over there.
I'll talk to Siriani was sitting on the bench and
he'll put his home back on. I'll come back out.
And then you look up. They've won the game and
he's accounted for five touchdowns, two on the ground, walk
in the game winner, Like, how the hell did this
guy do that? There is something to be said and

(36:50):
listen his adversity is unique. Right. He went to Alabama
and then transferred to Oklahoma, so his football world right
is is It's not like he had to walk on
at Oregon State and then he transferred to Texas Tech
or something. I mean, this guy was in football royalty
when it come to college, but he was benched for

(37:11):
Tua tongua Iloa. He did have to transfer to Oklahoma,
So he had adversity in his life that is not disputable,
first class football adversity, but it was legit. And then
he was drafted in the second round and was not
named the starter by any means. When he got to
the NFL and where he started at and where he
is now is one of the most incredible things I've

(37:33):
ever seen. It truly is because let's use josh Allen,
who we were just talking about him with, because they
just played well. Josh Allen improved a lot from college.
He was taken seventh overall. You take a guy seventh overall,
you think the guy could be a star, which he
has become. But they believed in it. Not a soul
thought that about Jalen Hurts. There wasn't one NFL draft board,

(37:57):
not one, including the Eagles guy has a first round grade.
The guy wasn't even viewed as a first round player,
so to become in most people like, let's face it,
I was not alone thinking the guy. You know, he's
really more of a running back. I mean, his early
on in his career, that's what he looked like. And
he's become such a potent deep ball thrower. He's just

(38:18):
so consistent as a player in terms of just every game,
you know what you're gonna get. It might take a
minute for it to get there, but you know it's
gonna come. He's just a badass. I mean, he truly is.
If you like the NFL, even if you're a Cowboy fan,
a Giants fan, a Niner fan, whatever, and you want
to hate the Eagles, you gotta respect this guy. I

(38:39):
can't have any more. Honestly. He earned even more my
respect in that game on Sunday in the rainstorm, after
they had just won a big Chiefs game. You know
they got the Niner game coming up. Even if they
blew the Bills game, it's not the end of the world.
He just refused to let him loose. And when you
watch the Eagles now, he refuses to let them loose.
Morgan and Morgan player of the week Jalen hurt. So
if you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan and Morgan.

(39:01):
Their fee is free unless they went For more information,
go to fourthpeople dot com slash John or dial pound
law pound five to nine from yourself. That's f o
R Thepeople dot com slash John or pound Law five
to nine. Okay, let's dive into the mailbag. Easiest way

(39:26):
to get in Instagram My name at John Middlecoff. Fire
in those dms, get your questions answered here on the show.
We'll start with Liam mail bag question. Saw your tweet
about David Tepper might have been a little angry that
he fired my guy, Douce Staley, who is easily one
of the better assistant coaches and running back coaches in

(39:47):
the league. Now, we talked about it earlier. I get it,
but it makes me angry. It just does. Because Deuce
left the Lions, Dan Campbell was his guy to go
be closer to his mom, who is aging and who
knows how much longer she was gonna be around. He
went there for family. God, it ticks me off still.
Who do you think will rain in the NFC? South

(40:09):
in the future. Who is the top team in the
division going forward? Well, I think it's wide open right,
let's face it. The Saints are a debacle. They paid
Derek a lot of money and he's just not good anymore.
Might be the offensive coordinator as well. The combination just
doesn't work. Dennis Allen's not a good head coach. The
Tampa Bay Buccaneers need to reset the franchise, they really do.
They know that they're eating a bunch of money this year.

(40:31):
The Carolina Panthers no work. I mean, they don't even
coach in the Atlanta Falcons, you know, definitely, I would
say a quarterback away from being a lot better than
they are. But it's how do you get that quarterback?
You know? I mean there's no guarantee that you just
snap your fingers and get that guy. Now, if somehow
this offseason Kyler Murray becomes available, could they trade for him?

(40:54):
Could they move up in the draft and draft a
guy high? But if they do that, there's no guarantee
he'll be any good. So I would say TBD with
not a lot of good options. And I think anytime
that you're in that position, it's a problem, and that
division right now is in a quarterback situation where they're
just not any good. Cam Newton was started there for

(41:15):
a decade, right, You had Drew Brees the starter of
there for fifteen years. You had it in Atlanta, Matt
ryan a started there for fifteen plus years as well.
Like you lose those guys, it's hard to hit the
reset button. And this is typically what happens. Longtime listener,
first time reaching out question. During the NFL season, if

(41:36):
a team is facing a sub five hundred opponent, do
they attempt to use some sort of time to try
out new run plays or pass route concepts. While you
never want to totally overlook a team you expect to
be bad. Look at how Arizona put Dallas on their ass.
Do teams do this? Hey, I've got this new scheme
we've been working on to practice, let's try it Sunday.

(41:58):
I actually think you're less like to try things that
you potentially could use. Like if you're a playoff team
and you're playing a team that has a couple wins. Right,
let's just say you're the Eagles or the Cowboys or
the Niners, and you're in this hypothetical situation playing the
Carolina Panthers. I think you're less likely to bust things
out and more likely just to run what you always run.

(42:22):
You leave the bust out stuff like the Niners and Eagles.
This is a week when they bust some stuff out.
In two weeks the Cowboys versus Eagles, that's a week
when you try to bust some stuff out. Bill's desperation
against the Eagles. You don't do it when you're playing
the fucking Jets. If any especially, you go into the game.
You have to prepare in any game, because I got
yelled at when I first got in the NFL for

(42:43):
making fun of bad teams to an assistant coach when
I was like, I think handing out the injury report
or the weather report, and he kind of scolded me,
you cannot act like that in this league. And I agree,
you can't act like that going into a game. No
one ever anointed more teams coach in schemes then Belichick
in the Brady years when he would play the worst

(43:05):
teams imaginable, and then he'd just go on a ten
minute diatribe in his press conference about how great they
are in special teams, Like what is this guy talking about?
But he had to psych himself out. Now, once you
get into that game and you're up twenty five to nothing,
you're not gonna run some double pass or maybe some
new ideas with blocking schemes with your offense. Same thing
with defense. Right, if you can just play your base

(43:26):
defense and beat the team, there's no point to start
doing some stunts or maybe some blitz concepts or some
different coverages to put that out there for your upcoming
opponents that matter. Now, Ultimately, I think sometimes we overthink football.
You know, it's just a game. Do I got better
players and my go to plays? And sometimes can my
player pull a play out of his ass? Right? Obviously,

(43:48):
the NFL is a scheme oriented sport. But like at
this point in time, if you're playing the Chiefs, the Ravens,
the Cowboys, the Niners, the Eagles, like kind of know
what they do, you know what their strengths and weakness.
All of a sudden one of their players isn't gonna
do something completely different more than likely and expose you.
Not saying that it can't happen, but you got a

(44:09):
pretty good idea coming in, Like what Chris Jones, Patrick Mahomes,
Travis Kelce and their dbs like to do. I know
Lamar's strengths and weaknesses, like I know what Debo and
I uke the Rats they like to run. Right now,
you can have a wrinkle or two, but I think
sometimes that gets a little overvalued at the highest level.
These teams know what's going on. Right if I'm playing

(44:30):
the Eagles, like, I got a pretty good idea what
Jalen likes to do. Loves that quarterback sneak up the middle.
They hell they pull offensive lineman, loves throwing the go routes.
Jalen in the quick game isn't terrifying me. I'm not
saying that he can't hit those which he will with ease,
but like to me, to stop the Eagles if I'm
the Niners this week, it's all about how do we

(44:51):
slow down his first down runs, not like on first down,
but like if it's third and seven, either just he
scrambles for a first down or design runs up the middle,
And to how do we limit their explosive place. I mean,
that's it sounds basic, but that's fucking what they do
on offense. I recently heard your pod where you said

(45:13):
look at athletes a lot like stocks I'm the co
founder of a startup that allows athletes to sell equity
in their career and values. Fans get to invest in
it the same way like Apple or Google in a
federally regulated marketplace. My team and I would like to
chat you listen. I'm not all four entrepreneurship, and that
sounds like an interesting idea. I wonder how difficult that
would be to actually monetize, right, But shit, if you

(45:35):
got in Patrick Mahomes that rookie season when he was
the backup, be like getting in the video big shout
out to three and out. Appreciate you. I found you
from listening to the Hurt, and I find myself excited
to listen. Don't tell Coward I love a show too.
I enjoy your move down to Earth takes and the
profanity is refreshing. I love your takes. I'm gonna say
this is just positivity about man, not gonna not gonna

(45:58):
hate it. Kell I guess this was just wasn't even
a question, just positive. I appreciate you, Matt. I think
the winner of the NBA mid season tournament should get
a guaranteed ten seed in the playoffs. Thoughts, I don't
have many NBA mid season tournaments, be lying. If I've
watched much, I get back to you know, they are

(46:19):
manipulating it, rightfully so trying to boost television ratings. But
I just I have a hard time putting any value
into it. So my take on that would be, no,
you can't just pull something out of your ass. I
just at least the play in tournament like a lot
like the seven seeds in the NFL or the new

(46:40):
wild cards in baseball. You have to win games over
the course of a season, like you have to earn
your way there just playing a couple of weeks. Honestly,
the end season tournament is just a tournament while the
regular season is going on. Like I'm sorry, Adam Silver,
You're not the EPL. This isn't soccer. So I have
a hard time valuing. And I've heard other people say

(47:00):
this automatic six seed or automatic you know, top ten seed,
Like no, no chance, call me grouch, call me old
man on a cloud. But you can't just pull something
out us from nowhere that has never happened in this
sport and get a playoff spot. I can't get behind it.
You want to give him money, which they are even

(47:20):
though giving five hundred thousand dollars to a guy making
fifty million dollars is not as crazy as it sounds. Now.
I've seen a lot of players say it's cool to
go to their two way players, but I'd be lying.
And I'm not trying to be a hater here, but
it's hard for me to get too emotional and really
have a take about the Ncason Tournament. Kind of apathetic

(47:42):
at this point. My question is, do you think that
Joe Burrow could be the next Andrew Luck? In terms
of injuries due to the sacks, Luck was sacked one
hundred and fifteen times in fifty five games. Burrow sacked
one hundred and forty eight times in fifty two games.
In the playoffs, Luck was sacked le times and Burrow
sacked twenty nine times. Well, I hear you in the

(48:05):
sense that they both. You know, obviously Burrow had a
major knee injury, you know early on in his was
that his rookie year. Second, it would have been his
rookie year that was offensive line related. I have a
hard time putting this hand injury on the offensive line. Now,
big picture, you can't take that many hits right in
Burrow's more athletic than like Brady and Peyton, right who

(48:29):
to me like him Mahomes, I mean even Josh Allen.
Like if you watch Josh Allen against the Eagles and
you can't go, this guy has the opportunity to be
one of like top fifteen ten quarterback of all time
long way to go, then I don't know what to
tell you. Like, he's just he's like my John Elway.
Patrick Mahomes is just to me, probably the best quarterback

(48:50):
I've seen of his generation. Obviously, you could argue one
of the best ever. He's already up there with like
Peyton a couple of MVPs. I know Peyton won like
four or five, but Rogers won four or five. But
he already multiple super Bowls, and he just consistently dominates
the NFL, and he's like twenty seven to twenty eight. Well,
to me, Joe Burrow has a chance to be right there.
I would say one thing that Peyton and Brady do
that those guys don't do, because they're all kind of

(49:11):
have some mobility. Obviously Josh has the most. Mahomes and
Burrow good examples guys that can move but really look
to throw you have to just get down. And I
think one thing Brady and Manning did is a hit
the fucking ground. No one's questioning anyone at that level's toughness,
Like these guys are so elite, all tough guys. You
can't play quarterback at that level without being a tough guy,

(49:34):
but you can't take the unnecessary hits. Now, some of
it's obviously not on him, but I think that's one thing,
big picture he's gonna have to learn to do, is
just avoid some of this stuff. And I think the
hand injury, I have a hard time putting that on
anyone except just wear and tear and injuries. Unless I'm
missing something. I haven't seen a video where he got
slammed on his hand. Could be wrong, you know, don't

(49:55):
try to balance my time of just Twitter and Internet
and that's you where you find stuff like that. But
I haven't seen anything like that. So again, if I'm wrong,
shame on me. But I wouldn't go there quite yet.
But yeah, it's it's definitely it's okay to say Burrow's
injuries are a concern. Burro's injuries are a concern. Shattered
his knee, came back flying Colors team of Super Bowl

(50:18):
right a couple of years later, season ending hand injury.
So however he gets it, I don't view him quite
like Luck because part of I feel like Luck took
more shots. Again, I know the statue just gave me,
but just from the eye test, it felt like he
physically got hit more often than Joe, more violently. Maybe
the league was a little more violently early on, you know, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen,

(50:42):
Let's face it, just seven eight years later, it's a
different NFL. I mean, look at Draymond puts a guy
in a fucking choke hold and gets spend in five
games the NBA I grew up on it be a
technical and a thumbs up. Okay, big fan of three now,
long time listener. I'm a big believer in Purty, but
it does seem fair to want to see him play
well and come from behind situations more often before we
put him in the elite tier with Mahomes in Burrow.

(51:05):
Do you think he is capable of it and more
of a Kyle issue than we've seen this year or
is it possible limitations with experience or other things that
have prevented Purdy from getting it done. I will say
he led them to a field goal range against Cleveland
and Moody missed it. Well, like that's you just threw
out two dames there. Patrick Mahomes, who like already is

(51:28):
like entrenched as a top six or seven quarterback of
all time and he's not even to his thirty year
thirtieth birthday yet. And Joe Burrow another guy who looks
like he's headed to be a top ten quarterback ever,
health permitting. So look who were comparing him to eighteen
months ago? Think about that. I'm recording this on November
twenty seventh. Brock Purty was twenty twenty three. Brock Purty

(51:51):
was drafted essentially like May one, twenty twenty two, So
we're talking eighteen months this guy. This guy was drafted
in the last pick of the seventh round. That's who
we're talking about. So comparing him to like Burrow, that
seems insane. Mahomes won the MVP a second season, right,
and it was his first round pick. Joe Burrow was

(52:12):
the number one overall pick. This guy was viewed as
like a not even a backup held by the fucking
forty nine ers. The forty nine ers had paid Nate
Sudfeld two million dollars guaranteed to be the backup. Pretty
just beat him out, and I don't even blame him,
like they needed a backup. You can't depend on your
seventh rounder. And this is where I get uncomfortable with
comparing him in a vacuum. Brock Party is a really

(52:33):
good player right now, he is thriving on the forty
nine ers. Comparing him to like Hall of Fame level
guys is unfair to him now in a couple of years,
more than fair right to start nitpicking him. But right
now he's a fucking seventh round pick, kicking the shit
out everybody. Gino Smith makes to sign for sixty million dollars,
Rock Party ran circles around him, so yes has to

(52:55):
come back. But they're not in comeback situations a lot
when he's the quarterback. That's like one of the problems
because they blow everyone out, and when they were against Cleveland,
he let them rite down. There's a big game against
Philly this this Philly should be exhausted. This week they
play Kansas City in a knockdown, drag out Monday night
game in cold weather, tough conditions. Six days later, they

(53:18):
play the Bills, who are desperate as a you know
what in a driving rainstorm in an overtime game, and
they pull both games out in credit to them. Incredible
to watch, like that team knows how to win. Like
the Diners should fucking put a hammer on them this
week just because they run out of gas. Honestly, I
wouldn't even blame Philly. Much more important this week for

(53:41):
the Diners than the Eagles once the Eagles won that
Bills game. But if they are in a situation where
they're like down five in the fourth quarter, yeah, it's
on the quarterback and on the coach. Like Kyle Shanahan
has never come back down a touchdown in the fourth
quarter as a head coach. Never happened. It's kind of crazy. So, like,
I think he needs to figure that out, but I

(54:02):
have faith pretty can figure it out. Is it really
believable that Harbaugh didn't know what was happening in his
own program. I live in the Louisville area, and when
you know what hit the fan with college basketball, everyone
here kept saying Rick Patino didn't know anything. I think
he's talking about the hookers. I find it impossible to
believe that these coaches who literally eat sleep and breathe

(54:26):
their sport are clueless about what's going on in their
own program. Oh yeah, and Michigan wasn't good and didn't
even come to pay Jim until Connor got hired. Wasn't good,
was strong, they were underachieving. They were winning, you know,
nine ten games. Now they're winning thirteen fourteen games. So
I think there are a couple of things going on.

(54:47):
For example, had I had a buddy talked to a
college coach the other day and he said, and I've
heard this a million times, that program was using nil
before NI ever existed, basically saying that team was paying
guys under the table and forever in the SEC. And
I've seen Danny Knell tweet this. They've been cheating their

(55:09):
ass off for fucking decades. And listen, I've never had
a problem with handing a kid fifty one hundred grand
give him a car. I don't care. It's what in
my world we call capitalism. It's what we call what
you have to do to be successful. You do whatever.
It's not breaking the law. That's an NCAA issue with
a bunch of over educated loser administrators who you wouldn't

(55:31):
fucking trust to walk your dog across the street. But
this notion that, like there are these outlier situations, for
example the Rick Patino thing, they got some hookers on campus.
These are seven eighteen, nineteen twenty year old guys, Like
who cares? Like I'm on phasebiole, What do you think
is going on with a twenty year old at Louisville

(55:51):
or at Kentucky or Duke. Hey, this is one of
my issues. I like Jay billis a lot, I really do.
But he's talked forever about players not getting paid before.
Now it's like, Jay, you cover college basketball, which is
not only way more corrupt than football because there's less
premium assets. Right with the players the top ten guys

(56:13):
are so valuable. Recruits in college football are very risky.
There's a million fucking players. Like the best running back
in the country, one of them is arguably at col
right now. He went to Norco High School in LA.
Any team could have had him, but he wasn't the
biggest recruit. Now like Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, they'll
probably try to pay him this offseason to get him

(56:34):
to transfer. In college basketball, that rarely happens, right The
Steph Curry stories. It's usually Zion Anthony Davis. Usually the
top recruits are the top draft picks, and they have
been paying. It's one thing in football for me to
get a player. If I'm at Alabama back in the day,
sixty grand, most people aren't offering him huge cash. Were
in basketball sixty grand that their family to hang up

(56:56):
on you. And these college basketball programs have been doing
shady shit. When I think basketball in the high level
of college in the NBA, I think two things basketball women.
I'm sorry, that's just part of the deal, and I'm
not bothered by it. But I think it's very disingenuous
when people talk about like, oh, I can't believe, can't
believe what everything was. Fucking John Wooden had a bag man.

(57:17):
He was a lawyer in La So Jim Harbob cheating.
He ain't cheating, he ain't trying. This is football, this
is Mike Elko just got seven million dollars a year
for five years. There is so much money in the line.
You do everything. I don't know what industry you're in,
but every industry I've ever been a part of. Everyone's
pushing the envelope. With football to radio, to Now with podcasts,

(57:42):
there's a difference between pushing the envelope and quote unquote
breaking a law, because if you can't go to jail,
then whatever. If you ain't trying, someone else will turn
on any of these shows about these successful companies, gonna
make you a little uncomfortable what they did, but guess
what they did it for a reason, usually why they
got to the top. So then he had some dude,

(58:03):
some marine in Iowa, Nebraska, like, I'm sorry, I just
watched Michigan with their a thirty seven year old former.
I was like, how old is this guy? Younger than me?
The interim coach, Sharon Moore beat Ryan Day clearly, I
don't have signals or anything. And if they did, Ohio

(58:25):
State clearly changed it. Beat him straight up now, right,
they played him well. But an interim coach who was
filling in for Harbaugh, who's at home, you know, eating
a sandwich and drinking a whole milk beat him straight up.
So like remember when Brady and Grigson was like, oh,
they're the flat in the ball, and then Tom Brady
and the Patriots fucking destroyed everybody. So it's like, if

(58:48):
you can't back it up, if I catch you cheating
and you were literally a fake like Millie Vanilli. So
it's like, wait, you can't actually sing. Some of you
guys are gonna be too young to know what that
reference is. But like it was completely not his voice.
He was just sinking complete fraud, right, like en run
complete fraud company, Birdie made off Ponzi scheme. Right. But

(59:08):
if you don't think fucking Google or Amazon or Chase
Bank or fucking whoever, the Patriots, the Niners, Bama is
doing some shit that, it's like, it's probably not above board.
You got your head under the sand man. We live
in a world where you're either playing the game or
you're getting played, and if you want the action, it's
usually on the edges, right. It usually gets a little

(59:31):
hot in the kitchen. Sometimes you get burned. Now, they
got caught, you know, part of pushing the envil. If
you get caught, then you got to deal with the consequences.
But I have a hard time to be like, is
he know or didn't know? I don't know like all
these players. Historically, in the cheating scandals in college sports
with paying players, there was always like a separation between
the head coach, so it's like the head coach never

(59:53):
handed anyone the money. The head coach, it's why what's
his name, Jeremy Pruett at Tennessee got in trouble because
his wife was handing people cash you deserve. There's a
moron tax in life. You think Nick Saban has ever
handed anyone cash in a back? Of course not. Do
you think Bama has ever paid I'm talking pre and

(01:00:13):
il people a shitload of money to come to school there?
What do you think Georgia, Ohio State USC come on?
Of course they have, That's why they dominate. You think
they want to lose? Fuck? No, right, If you got
the funds and you want to win the world's your oyster.
But if you get in trouble, that's on you. Do
I think that he specifically told him what to do?

(01:00:35):
Probably not. Do I think that he had some idea
what was going on? Yeah? I do. Do I care,
not one iota. Do I care that these basketball players
forever got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars? Of course not.
Does it bother me a little bit when people that
are in the NOPE acted like it didn't happen, Yeah,
it does, because I think it's very It's like we

(01:00:57):
live in this giant fugazi no no whatever wants to
say anymore, what's actually going on. It's crazy. It's what
bothers me the most about society and just politics in general.
Let's just call it fucking spade. Spade, It's okay, no
one cares. That's why I help football just breaks off
from the NCAA. Stop listening to those people. Just do

(01:01:18):
what you gotta do, make it about money, and just
let's just be numb to it and play football. And
maybe that's the wrong way for the health of the
sport big picture, but that's where we're headed. That's where
we're headed because that's the way the big boys have
always treated it right. Football comes first. Football has always
come first. At Ohio State, at Michigan, at LSU, at Alabama,

(01:01:41):
at Georgia, at Texas, they just they care. And when
you care a lot about something, whether anyone listening to
this knows if they're an entrepreneur, if they work at
a company trying, they'll do whatever it takes. They'll do
whatever it takes, and sometimes that's doing something that isn't
you know, I don't know. Ethan Strauss put this in

(01:02:03):
an article the other day. If all him on substack
that Peter Guber, the you know Hollywood executive, he's now
you know, co owner of the Golden State Warriors, basically
has a famous quote that just and I just this
encompasses sports, This encompasses business, this encompasses life. There are
no rules, but break them at your own peril. And

(01:02:25):
I kind of I've always lived like that. I've never
been a big rule guy. If I colored within the envelope, fuck,
I wouldn't be sitting here. Promise you that I'm not
talking about breaking laws and going to jail. I'm just
talking about pushing the envelope. If you're unwilling to push
the envelope, you're gonna get lapped. Like it's just a fact.

(01:02:45):
And Harbaugh's willing to do it, no different than Belichick's
willing to do it, no different than the Astros. Obviously,
some are there different levels of it, steroid, you name it, right.
How many people do you think you're going up against
in business are on a peace? Are on some form
of something. And I don't mean like you're not playing
football again. Some I just mean maybe some sort of

(01:03:07):
enhancer to give them energy, like not everyone's just drinking coffee.
It's like, how's this guy working all the time? Well,
probably not? Just you know Lemon Water, Hey John, longtime
miserable Charger fan. Assuming Staley gets fired during or after
the season, who do you think the Chargers should look
to hire. I'm not opposed to given Kellen a shot,

(01:03:28):
but with the Spanos being cheap, I'm terrified we're gonna
hire another guy over his head. Well, I think the
big question now is do they fire to Let's go?
And I would imagine they do. But to me, that
is the game changing question when it comes to the Chargers,
because are they starting from scratch? Are they going GM coach?

(01:03:49):
Would they hire a coach that talks down to their
GM in the hierarchy? Right? I don't mean like literally
professionally right, because before they've had aj Smith, they chose
him over Marty. Now they've had to LESCo who's obviously
in charge of personnel. The coach is not. That's a
huge question, and until we know that, it's hard to know.
Do they want a package deal? I don't know. I

(01:04:12):
think they're really at a crossroads. And listen, I make
fun of them a lot for being cheap because that's
what their history says. I didn't make that up. That
wasn't my take. Everyone knows that. But I think the
question now is you invested all this into Herbert, are
you willing to go the extra mile? Or are you
just gonna keep being the butt of people's jokes and
the butt of people's jokes like the Raiders were the

(01:04:33):
butt of people's jokes or the Browns for a long
time because they always sucked. It's like, what is going
on here the chargers of the butt of everyone jokes?
Because like, how do you not win? More? Like? You
got good players? All the good teams would want your players.
How does this happen? And the answer is it starts
with ownership. This crossed my mind this weekend and I'm

(01:04:54):
not sure there is a plan in place to address it,
but somehow came to reality what the college football Playoff
Committee do if Army or Navy were somehow to go
undefeated into their Week fifteen matchup after the playoff field
had been announced. Always had the same thought for if
either team had an outstanding player emerge as a Heisman candidate,

(01:05:16):
ballots would be due Prior to the biggest rivalry game
of that player season. Obviously neither team would really be
in the mix for the four team playoff, but with
the twelve team playoff, you never know. Both these teams
absolutely suck right now, but they did each flirt with
the rankings in the teams and ranges of the twenty tens.

(01:05:37):
I think there are some things in life that you
could argue are so far fetched that you just do
a we'll cross that bridge when we come to it,
right If that's ever the case an Army or Navy
was in the mix as an undefeated team, I think
with the twelve team playoff, maybe they just throw them
in if one team was legitimately undefeated. But it doesn't

(01:05:58):
feel like they've even come remotely close to that, and
obviously they both suck right now. I also think that
depending on their schedule on a given year, because they're
both independents, right, I think you could just make the
argument like you don't deserve it, but like if San
Diego State went undefeated, like they're not going to the playoff,
And I think one thing's clear, And I saw them

(01:06:20):
interview Jonathan Smith, I think when he got to Michigan State,
not like the actual press conference, but just he got
off the plane. Some reporters were there and they asked
him how long he was thinking about this, and he
essentially said a long time. And I think ultimately what
he meant was the moment we got asked out of
all these conferences. I was done at Oregon State. And

(01:06:40):
this is a guy that played at Oregon State. Think
about that. He played quarterback at Oregon State and then
became the head coach there. This was his old water
Pack twelve. They could they were paying him like five
million bucks. But like it's over. I think non Power
five teams are done. The separation when I saw that

(01:07:01):
Elco got set, they paid someone seventy five million dollars
to go away, and they gave their next coach seven
million dollars a year. The separation with the TV contracts
of the Big ten in the SEC and even the
ACC and the Big twelve is gonna wipe Like Fresno State,
San Diego State. How are they going to exist? Because
even if they do get a good player, do you
know what I would do if I'm Oregon or USC

(01:07:23):
or Texas or Alabama. I'm going to fucking take them.
I'm gonna cut the check. I'm gonna what can they
give you seventy five grand? I'll give you two hundred
and fifty grand in a scholarship to play on TV
with everyone watching. It's just over I truly and listen.
I am a product of D one double A. I
went to I got my start in football at cal Poly.

(01:07:44):
Who's obviously you know D one double A is is
a low level relative to what we're talking about. Fresne
State changed my life. And when I was at Fresno,
Pat Hill took a lot of pride anybody, anytime, anywhere.
And the conferences there were five conferences you could schedule.
We played with Wisconsin, we played who do we play? Wisconsin? Cincinnati?

(01:08:08):
Who else did we play? That was really good and big?
I mean, but over his ten year Oklahoma, Tennessee, Ohio State,
Kansas State, you name it, he would play any team
that would play USC We played UCLA, those teams. To me,
with the twelve team playoff, I wouldn't even play these
non power five teams. I just think they're going to
play each other. And if the television revenue which is

(01:08:28):
paying for everything, like the NFL would never play the
XFL or the UFL, they just play each other. They
keep all the revenue themselves. Why would you want to
share any revenue? Like Auburn they lost to New Mexico
State and they paid them one and a half million dollars.
Why wouldn't you just in the future, even if you're
gonna lose that game, you don't pay anybody anything. You're
just like, let's just do a home at home with

(01:08:49):
fucking Arizona. Why would you play a team that's not
on your level? Those days are done. I think those schools,
and I'm telling you, I'm not saying this would like
out of joy. Without Fresno State, there is no chance
on God's green Earth. I just I'm sitting here right
now doing this. No chance none without that program. Who knows.

(01:09:13):
Because I graduated in eight into the financial crisis, I
didn't even know what was going on. Why Because I
lived in this football world where I was just a GA.
I didn't make any money anyway, couldn't even tell you
that it was happening. I mean, I kind of knew,
but I didn't. It didn't impact me, not that it would.
I mean, I made twelve thousand dollars working for Presne State,

(01:09:35):
but that set me on a path ultimately to where
I'm sitting here whatever, fifteen years later. And I just
think those programs, that program was way healthier than than
now because we had so many NFL plays. How would
Fresno State have been able to keep Ryan Matthews, Derek Carr,
Logan Mankins that they couldn't most of the best players

(01:09:56):
on those teams. And this speaks for all these little programs.
It's gonna be hard, honestly for the mid tier Power
five teams. Like if you're Kansas State, how do I
keep you? If I'm if I'm if I'm Georgia or
Ohio State or Michigan and I want that player, I can't. Hell,
if I'm Michigan and you're playing in Iowa, it's like, hey,
you want to come here, Ohio State? Hell, that happens now.

(01:10:21):
So I think the big picture, I think Navy and Army,
and honestly, I think this should happen. I think those
teams Navy Army, and I'm a no one grew up
in a house that cared about America more than mine.
So I am pro I have nothing but respect for
the guys that play ball there. And I've been to
that game when I went to the when I worked

(01:10:42):
for Philly, I think my second year. Obviously, I don't
know where. It kind of goes back and forth between
like the Raven Stadium and the Eagles Stadium. I went.
It was cool as shit, it was awesome, but like
those teams should not make the playoffs. I'm sorry, they
just shouldn't, and I think there should just if you're
not in the Power five. To me, my solution would

(01:11:03):
be simple. Once they do this realignment, and they're gonna
end up realigning more, but the Power five teams only
play the Power five teams. You don't play anybody else.
And then if you're not in the Power five, but
you're not d one to ble a right the Fresno
State's Boise States Army Navies of the world, you just
play each other. And Oregon State Washington State are now that.
And do you know what sucks is Oregon State and

(01:11:26):
Washington State deserve better because they tried it football. Oregon
State's coach was the last six years is a baller.
That guy Michigan State. I'll promise you this will not
be that guy's last job. I would stake my claim.
Jonathan Smith's going places once upon a time Washington State
was in shambles, and I'll never forget Washington press conference.

(01:11:49):
They had this ad who used to be that I
think the CEO of like Pizza Hut, business guy rare
in UH college athletics. Most of these guys want to
be business guys or fun under raisers and they get
taken to the woodshed by Jimmy Sexon. I forget the
guy's name, but he was asked when he was going
on a coaching search. They said, are you going to
use one of those committees to help you find a coach?

(01:12:10):
He said, yes, we have a committee. It's committee of
one and you're looking at him, and a couple of
days later, Mike Leach was their head coach. So over
the last decade we've seen Mike Leach turn Washington State
into just a legit program and Jonathan Smith win eight
to ten games at a program that I got news
for you has no business going above five hundred. So

(01:12:34):
those teams, because I mean the Big Ten was not
going to offer them, just got fucked. Like they care
about football, they really try at football, and they have
consistently woned football. But they're screwed. I mean it pains
me to say this because I grew up in a
town UC Davis is obviously not athletically on that level,

(01:12:54):
but kind of similar. You know, I knew a lot
of people that farmers, can instruction workers, like blue collar
people that were educated. They had college degrees and they
went to schools like Washington State and Oregon State. I
feel like I know those people, even if I don't
know them all, and they're just fucked. From an athletic standpoint,
it's over. It's over. Last year they were making I

(01:13:19):
think like thirty five plus give or take a million
dollars from the conference. Well the Mountain West past five.
They're gonna have to fire a lot like the athlete.
It's just done, and it sucks. It's not fair. And honestly,
I got a little emotional Washington football this weekend. The
Oregon State Oregon game and the Washington State Washington game.
Those games will never happen. The Civil War and the

(01:13:40):
Apple Cup will never happen again, Like the Egg Bowl,
the Iron Bowl, those are gonna continue. Ohio State, Michigan
like those aren't gonna stop, USA, UCLA, those games. Like
I've been watching football for thirty years, I grew up
on those games. I grew up watching these programs, and
part of the cool part about having the underdog is
sometimes they beat the big dog. I remember when in
the driving fog rainstorm, Oregon State took down USC on

(01:14:03):
like a Thursday or Friday night in the peak Carrol Era.
You know, I've seen Washington State when a lot of
upset big games. It sucks. It does, and honestly, it
kind of hurts even though I get it. I understand grow,
you die, You got to adapt, things change. Business fucking
is part of the deal, right, But it did. It

(01:14:25):
was sad. It was sad, but it is what it is.
The volume

All Episodes

3 and Out - MNF Barnburner, Changes in Carolina, Trouble in The Big Apple

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Colin Cowherd

Jason McIntyre

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}3 and Out - MNF Barnburner, Changes in Carolina, Trouble in The Big Apple