3 and Out - Shedeur FOURTH On Depth Chart, Stafford Injury, Anthony Richardson Officially A BUST, College Football Preview w/ Josh Pate - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 1 (01:46):
What is going On Everybody three and our podcast We
Are Back in Action Yesterday we recorded with Colin. I
flew into Chicago on Friday, went to Collins House, went
to dinner with Colin, hung out with Colin. That night,
had some cigars. Next day, we went to uh We
got up early, got a little workout, In, went to

(02:07):
Live Golf, came home, had some more cocktails, ordered dinner,
and left Sunday morning, and then I did a podcast
with him Sunday afternoon. So a lot of a lot
of time with Colin in Chicago, which was it was awesome.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
He was He couldn't have been any cooler.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Had me stay at his house, wouldn't let me stay
a hotel, A nice humble abode He's got in in
the suburbs. Absolutely beauty. Chicago is beautiful.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
It really is.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
I went out to dinner, had some steaks, some cigars,
had a blast, had a really really good time with
the Big boss Man. So yeah, I thought we'd do
a little podcast today. Here's the plan. I did a
I recorded an interview early this morning with Josh Pate.
He has a massive YouTube college football show. I'm a

(02:55):
big fan fellow Bald brother. He has been doing it
for years. I had him on the podcas cast last week.
So we recorded an interview this morning. I think it's
like forty five maybe close to an hour fifty minutes,
And I thought, you know what, instead, of just doing
the interview. I had some takes on the NFL from
Shador Sanders still being the four string quarterback to Stafford's

(03:18):
back won't stop hurting, to the Colts quarterback situation Kyler.
So I want to do a couple of quarterback things
before we dive into him. So that's the plan. I
feel re energized today. I feel good. So we have
some I'm interviewing Greg Olsen tomorrow obviously the Fox you
know broadcaster, longtime tight End, a couple other ones in transit,

(03:41):
potentially some other interviews, so we're mixed it up a
little bit as we as we head toward the season,
but very very excited.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
You guys know the Drew.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
If you listen on Collins Feed three and out, make.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Sure you subscribe.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Also have a YouTube channel and we're pumping out podcasts
all week, so subscribe to everything and you will never
ever miss a thing. But before we dive into some football,
you know, I gotta tell you about my friends. My
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Here's the thing.

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(04:41):
terms of play Again, create an account and redeem the
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the Game Time app to day last minute tickets a
little as price is guaranteed. Let's start with the Cleveland
Browns because I just have a big picture of philosophy
on life and we all can get into a routine
and have strong beliefs on certain things. I do think

(05:03):
you have to be very careful in business, with your family,
with your wife, about being very very rigid. And I
think rigid people really struggle in fluid situations when it's
like sometimes you have to I don't even want to
say color outside the box, but be open minded to
certain situations. And coaches can be like this to a

(05:29):
degree that just makes fans, front office personnel, and definitely
ownership go what is going on? And I've always said
this about coaches, and Kevin Stefanski is an Ivy League guy.
He is really really smart, and he's proven to be
a good coach. Right He's won games with Joe Flacco,
he won games with Baker Mayfield. He won in Cleveland

(05:50):
where a lot of guys lose, and whenever he gets fired,
which you know, probably not going to be there too long,
the next guy will probably lose because that's kind of
what happens in Cleveland. I do not think Stefanski is
some scrub, but I think coaches sometimes can get so
consumed with the rigidity of you got to know my
playbook inside it out, and if you don't, I'm not

(06:11):
even giving you a chance. And I know the playbook,
I need you to know it like me, which is great.
There are a lot of quarterbacks all throughout the NFL
that know their team's playbook really really well and her
geniuses and their skill set fits that offense. Yet when
they get out to the field, stink cannot get a

(06:32):
first down, could not lead a touchdown drive.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
I mean, are god awful. The fans can see it,
the front office can see it, the owner, but the
coach like, I love this guy.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I was just watching the SEC Show and Billy Napier,
who's the head coach at Florida, was like obsessed with
Graham Mertz, who seems like a great guy, seems like
a high character, super smart, good dude, want to be
friends with them. But it was like, you probably should
play DJ Lagway. It's like, well he doesn't know all
the plays, No one cares have the ten plays that

(07:01):
he knows. Run those because this other guy. You got
no chance to win with this guy. And NFL coaches
can be like that, and listen, you need human beings
to believe in you. We talked about this last week.
When Shador's opportunity came right, you never complain or worry
sometimes how the opportunity presents itself once it's there. It's

(07:24):
on you to take advantage of. Whether that's someone listening
that has an interview coming up that their uncle set up,
whether it's the guy they're working with got sick and
now you're in charge of the meetings, Whether you're a
quarterback and everyone on the team pulled their hamstring and
now you're starting, Who gives a shit, it's your shot. Obviously,

(07:44):
lebron James is a famous basketball player, and that's the
reason his son got drafted and got a four year contract. Well,
Brony gets the playing games now, so if he wants to,
and he's good enough, he can take advantage of. That
situation happens all the time in all different industries. So
how you get there? Who cares? It's clear that the
front office and the coaching staff were not big on

(08:05):
shidor Sanders, because if they were, they would to drafted
them in the third round. Instead, they took another quarterback,
Which listen. Personnel and scouting and determining who's going to
be good on your team, especially past the top elite players,
is a very subjective business. There is no exact science
to this thing. I told this to Colin yesterday. There

(08:27):
are guys all over the league should George just happens
to be by far the most famous third day pick,
but he is not alone. There are fourth rounders, fifth rounders,
sixth rounders, seventh rounders all over the league that were
underdrafted who aren't just going to beat out first, second
and third round picks on their own team. Over the
course of the next year, are going to run circles

(08:47):
around those guys, are going to get second contracts and
are going to be Pro Bowl players. Every single draft
produces these individuals. And the one headline I did see
today when it came to Sando's article on the quarterback tiers,
was a head coach in the NFL said the draft
is over in relation to the polarization of Brock Purty,

(09:11):
who gives a shit. Forty five years ago he was
drafted in the seventh round. We're in twenty twenty five,
and he has several years of data of playing. So
I'm guilty of this too. We hold on to like, hey,
this guy was a fifth round pick. After a while,
it does not matter. And one thing's clear with Shador
He's an instinctive natural thrower of the ball in terms

(09:32):
of layering the ball, having touch on the ball. He
made a couple throws in that game that were awesome.
Whether it's a preseason game, who he's going against, he
brings something to the table. But Stefancy's got to be
very careful because the fans do not care. If you're like, well,
we like Dylan Gabriel more, we think Kenny Pickett really
knows the offense, that's fine, But you throw Kenny Pickett

(09:54):
out there. Throughout his career, when he's been thrown out there,
he has not looked good. So you throw him out there.
Let's just say this upcoming preseason game, and he looks awful.
No one's gonna want to see him again.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Not a soul. It's why if I was.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Them, I would start if you want to start dealing Gabriel,
which is your prerogative, you drafted him over Shador because
the one elephant in the room with this situation, the
team is not gonna be good. So when your team
is not really good, it's hard to justify. It's like, well,
let's just see what this guy can do, right, It's
easy to do when your team's good, be like not

(10:27):
play the young guy. Andy Reid did it once upon
a time with Patrick promps. Now he was a high
draft pick, Shoudur is not. But let's be real, like,
not all situations are the same, and this is kind
of an outlier situation. This guy is already feels like
one of the more famous players in the league, so
everyone was watching it. You got Jamie Fox, you got Lebron,

(10:47):
you got all these people tweeting and posting on Instagram
and supporting this guy. And then he comes through and
makes a bunch of plays, and I was like, wow,
we're gonna kick him out the way it works because
in other positions, when you start making plays, you move
your way up. But coaches with quarterbacks, they already have
in their mind what they want. And clearly the coaching

(11:11):
staff and the GM didn't want this guy because if
they did, they would have taken him in third round
when they took Dylan Gabriel. So I'm cool with that.
If you want to start Dylan Gabriel this week, but
you can't convince the fans, You're not gonna be able
to convince the owner. If Dylan Gabriel looks terrible and
Chador comes, we saw sheh Door playing a preseason game
look pretty good. And if Chador plays in the preseason game.

(11:33):
Once you yank Dylan Gabriel and he looks better than him,
you can't be like, well, we like no one cares.
And this is what I think coaches struggle with. And
I understand. Bill Pollian once had a saying, listen to
the fans, you'll be sitting with them, and there's probably
some truth to that in certain situations, but there are
some things that are just obvious.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
And in this situation, if.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
I'm a Browns fan, I don't want to watch Canny
Pickett ever take a snap. I have seen him play
for years on other teams.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
He's not good.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
Listen, I would be dubious of Dylan Gabriel, but you
drafted him. I'll give him a benefit of the doubt.
I'm an open minded fan. It's like, Okay, put him
out there, but if he ain't good in a fucking
preseason game, I don't care. I don't want to see
him in terms of like he's ahead of Shador. And
that's where I think Kevin Stefancy's got to be very
very careful in terms of like thinging. Well, I know

(12:24):
more than you guys. When these games happen, everyone's watching
and now in your situation, more people are watching than ever.
You're getting a little bit with Shador Sanders of like
the cowboy treatment, which not one of those Well, you
guys don't really know what you're talking about. You don't
know the plays. I know the play when the ball
is snap and he makes a move and he fucking
layers the ball over a linebacker, a safety, and a

(12:46):
trailing corner and hits a guy instride. My mom can
see that. And you watch enough preseason games where other
random guys come in. All these situations are chaotic and
they look like Kramp. We saw backup quarterbacks all over
the NFL not be able to function, seen him for
years in the preseason. No one's acting, No one with
the brain is acting like this guy's perfect or he's
going to be some star in the NFL. I think

(13:08):
any level headed person just goes, maybe you should just
give him some more time and again, if he's bad,
then you then it's easier for you to pivot. But
it's hard when you're like, eah, we're just gonna put
him back in the line again. And I can already
see this coming. This thing could get away from Kevin
Stefanski these guys, these two IVY League elites are used

(13:29):
to like kind of getting like flying under the radar
and some of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (13:33):
I mean, we've talked about this before.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
They've drafted multiple guys that haven't made it to week
one without having a domestic violence arrest. Now don't I
wasn't there. He said, she said stuff, but like not
happening for every team. They've been a part of this
Deshaun Watson thing that because it's the Browns, it was
so ugly.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
People just like I don't even want to talk about
this anymore.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
And again that might be more on Haslam, but like
these other situations in different markets, I don't think you
could just shake him like this. You're not gonna be
able to shake this. This is not going away. And
he throws some more touchdowns, another guy struggle, like you
can't be like, well, let's just see Joe Flacco. You
can do that week one, because like, hey, we owe
this to Miles Garrett to play a veteran guy who

(14:14):
knows what he's doing. But after a couple of weeks,
no one's going to want to watch him take a snap.
I think this could really get away from the Browns
if they don't handle this in a way that they
have just struggled to handle quarterback situations in a recent past.
They did a poor job clearly with Baker Mayfield that
that situation got away from that. A Shaan Watson thing
is one of the biggest embarrassments in the history of

(14:35):
the NFL, and this Shador thing already feels a little clanky.
Speaking of just weird situations, I think the Rams have
a serious problem on their hands. I think there's some
parallels with Matt Stafford to Christian McCaffrey last year where
it's like, what's his injury, what's going on? Why can't
he practice? And then he finally comes back to practice,

(14:56):
and then leading up to Week one, after practicing for
the week, Friday felt and then he wasn't able to
go Sunday, and then the season was basically didn't happen
until he came back, and then he got injured and
it was just over before you even know it. Matt
Stafford was supposed to practice today. It's what Sean mcvagh
said the other day. He threw sixty passes on Saturday

(15:16):
to kind of warm up for today to be the
full time starter. The RAMS guy, the person Mike Sando,
based on coaches and GMS, has as the fifth overall
quarterback in the NFL, but he couldn't practice day because
of back hurt. And you see guys all around the
league that Tara Meniscus. I think that happened to Landon Dickerson.

(15:36):
The forty nine ers had a guy with the high
ankle spraining. Today, there are some timetables where it's like, hey,
this is a four week injury, six weeks worst case scenario.
They're very black and white. Most injuries right acl out
for the season, broken hand. However, many weeks it's very
like you have a very good idea, start to finish

(15:57):
what you're dealing with. Maybe a week to here things
can change, but like you're not going in blind. The
worst thing with the back is no one has any clue.
And even when you think you've passed the litanus test
or the line of everything's gonna be all right, you
wake up the next day and it hurts. I mean,

(16:18):
I'll never forget when I lived in the Barry and
Steve Kerr and became such a national story because of
the Warriors. He couldn't coach because his back hurt. Tiger
Woods is my favorite athlete dealt with back issues forever.
You just don't know some days it's fine. Help If
you told me Matt Stafford had a month this year
where he was awesome and just felt great, I'd believe

(16:38):
you if you told me that he's able to play
week one, and then the next day it's like stories
have come out. Matt Stafford couldn't even get out of bed,
and he is for sure out the next week, like
that's possible. They are staring down a season that could
get away from them very fast. Because I like Sean
McVay as much as the next guy, he is an
elite coach. They clearly do a really good job of

(17:00):
team building and transition from the Jalen Ramsey kind of
Aaron Donald era to kind of the young group than
which they have now. It's been very, very impressive. But
they've won ten games the last couple of years, and
sometimes they're talked about like they're the Chiefs. Are the Eagles, right,
they haven't been winning thirteen games. If Matt Stafford is
compromised as he clearly currently is, with an injury that

(17:24):
doesn't just magically go away, I think we have to
be real. Even with Jimmy Garoppolo, their playoff chances would
be in major fucking trouble, which big picture, if they
had kind of a weird disastrous season wouldn't be the
worst thing, given that they got multiple picks and they
clearly would need a quarterback. Matt Stafford's on a one
year deal, he's old and it would be over. But

(17:45):
this year could be weird, especially in a division.

Speaker 2 (17:48):
That's kind of hard.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
So I think the Rams and Sean McVay, he can
put it on the brave face and they're saying all
the right things. They know everyone in the media, but
they got to be losing some sleep right now. I
think we also have to acknowledge the Colts are screwed
because Anthony Richardson, I think we're all on the same page.
Is not good. I don't pretend to be some schematic genius.

(18:13):
You know, anytime that I have a question, I will
either text a coaching buddy, a player like Jeff Schwartz,
someone like that. If there's a specific question, and you
guys know, on this show, we don't get that into
the weeds, mainly because I don't pretend to know, like
you know, I'm Kyle shanahan or Sean mcvahor Andy Reid
on a whiteboard on I don't really even care, and

(18:34):
if I have a question, I can ask and get
the answer. But every single form of player, the majority
of them offensive linemen or quarterbacks, absolutely destroyed Anthony Richardson.
For the other day, when he got lit up in
the Ravens game, which knocked him out of the game
because he's his pinky finger was facing the wrong way

(18:56):
and it was a blitz that he didn't see coming on,
basically a protection that the guy was not gonna be blocked.
That every single person that played in the NFL called
that day one stuff. Guess what, Anthony Richardson is not
a Day one player. This is year three. He already
had serious issues in terms of injuries, constantly inaccuracies. I mean,

(19:20):
he's one of the more inaccurate quarterbacks that I can
remember in the NFL. And let's face it, he was
one of the biggest projects over the last ten fifteen years.
I mean, anyone with his resume drafted the top five
pretty unheard of. It's not gonna work like, it's kind
of over, and it almost felt over before it even started. Now,

(19:41):
the Colts have a good team, Like beside the quarterback,
if you told me, just give me a good quarterback,
if he told me, like Dak Prescott or Brock Purdy
was their quarterback with Shane Psichinebeck, this team win ten
games easy, you know. But Daniel Jones, who I made
a prediction of, like, if things go right, they could
be good. I don't think Damn Jones any good.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
I watched Riley Leonard run around the preseason game. He
looks terrible.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
We know Anthony Richardson can't even read a fucking defense.
So let's face it, the culture screwed. I said it
last week that there is not a bigger lock in
the NFL than the Houston Texans winning that division. It's like,
what about the Jags Travis Hunter. It's like, well, yeah,
they've drafted a wide receiver. Okay, they got two good
wide receivers. See Travis Hunter trying to make an overfield tackle.

(20:27):
This isn't the Big twelve, brother, this is the NFL,
and I don't think playing both ways as possible, and
they've traded an enormous haul to get him. And I'm
pro Travis Hunter. I like Travis Hunter, but it's not
like they're getting you know, Molik Neighbors and Deon Sanders
on their team. With him, he's gonna beat Hell. He'd
be their number two wide receiver behind Brian Thomas Jr.
Which is a good thing. I mean, that's a pretty

(20:49):
talented offensive unit, but that's a franchise doesn't win. But
I'm just out on the Colts and I think big picture,
everyone likes this guy in the NFL. People I know
that i've worked with him, think Kylie of him. I
think he's done a good job drafting non quarterback positions
and putting together a roster. But I think they're staring

(21:09):
down a pretty big disaster as season. And anytime you
have a bust at quarterback and don't have a fix,
the boat usually sinks. Like we have seen some busts
and disasters at quarterback. Brock Purty save Kyle Shanahan, right,
Jalen Hurts saved everyone in Philadelphia for Carson Wentz. I
don't see their savior, Like, what are they going to do?

(21:31):
And how many times can you just make an excuse
miss the playoffs and keep your job, especially like Jim
Merces passed away now his daughters, which are wild card.
We don't know exactly how they're going to operate, but
I think we all would have to admit it has major,
major problems written all over it. The other thing is,

(21:52):
I'm not comparing Kyler to Anthony Richison. Kyler is a
legitimate NFL player and has had some awesome moments, and
if you watch them on the right week Kyler can
go toe to toe with any quarterback in the NFL
on a specific weekend. He can make plays with his legs,
with his arms, throw bombs. His highlight package throughout his
career is awesome. He's a special talent. He's also five

(22:14):
nine and can't see. And a lot of people like
an NFL hipster pick is like, oh, I like the
Cardinals to win the division and make the playoffs. You
do have you googled the history of the franchise how
often they make the playoffs? Have you googled the history
of Kyler Murray as the starting quarterback? Which basically every
year except one, the team has finished no higher than third,

(22:36):
the majority last place. So this is a team that
doesn't win very often. And listen, I like their roster
and a lot like the Colts. If you told me,
like Josh Allen was the quarterback of the Cardinals, I'd
be like, I think can make the NFC Championship. But
he had a throw in the game against the Chiefs
that was just like what is going on? And that's

(22:58):
the problem with Kyler. He can make like you could
just turn on a game like Week four three trade drives,
like God, the Colonels look really good, the two field
goals and a touchdown and there they're just rolling. And
then all of a sudden, he can have like the
worst play of the day. And that's the issue with him.
And I think it all stems back to no one's
ever questioned his arm strength, no one's ever questioned his athleticism.

(23:21):
Like those things are high end just as a physical
you know, being relative or separate from his height. Pretty
special talent. But when you're five nine, you can't see anything.
And I think you know sometimes you say like a
guy can't see the field. To me, there's like Anthey, Richison,
I think he's looking. He has no clue what he's
looking at. I think at this point Kyler's got a

(23:42):
pretty good idea he is legitimately can't see and then
sometimes when he can he's on the move. I just
think he makes some poor decisions. So this pick of
a lot of people, they're sexy, like I could see
the Cardinals making I cannot, like I one cannot, And
I think there's a reason on a yearly basis, even

(24:03):
when they've had some talent, like they're just an inconsistent operation.
And it just gets back to him now, unlike Anthey
Richison or Daniel Jones, Like I couldn't even imagine having
to stomach as a fan watching guys like that. That
would suck like that, that would be miserable, that would
be torture. Might as well waterboard me. It's like, this
is what I gotta watch Kyler, Like I do understand

(24:23):
like getting excited for him as a fan. Hell, I
get excited sometimes to watch him. I remember a couple
of years ago when he came back from the ACL
he had a game against the Eagles when they were
kind of spiraling.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
It was like one of the most fun halves over
the last couple of years.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
He's a very fun player.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
I'm just not sure he's a winning.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Player when it comes to winning the division. So you
can big Cardinals all you want, your boy.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
I'm out, okay, very very very fired up for an

(25:06):
internet tycoon.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
I spent the weekend with Coward and we were talking
about Josh paid a lot. So Josh Pate's football show,
which he got a new studio in Nashville and it
looks sweet, went went live for the first time with
his He's got a lot going on. I mean he's
been he's been moving and shaking.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
This guy knows college football as well as anyone I know. Josh,
What is happening in my man? How you doing? I've
just been doing this with my hands.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Gone about the past, oh, I don't know, six months,
So it's finally almost here. How about the fake looking
brick in that new studio. That's the benefit of getting married,
because you got someone who knows something about aesthetics and design.
I just would have thrown up some paneling and said
let's go, but she had her touch on that. So
I can't take any credit for how beautiful that new
studio is.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
I believed it. I thought it was. It's not actual bricks.
He fooled me.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
I mean, it's it's the kind of you couldn't you
could still go graffiti on it, like if we wanted
to put the finishing touches on it, we could go
like a box car, we could go graffiti.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
What do you write in the graffiti?

Speaker 2 (26:06):
So it's a work in progress, but yeah, as for now,
we're going with the hybrid brick.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
We'll call it HB hybrid brick. You and I both
got married in twenty twenty five. Actually, and my wife,
you know, she's a Baerry girl originally is where she
grew up. She loves the NFL, but I've really got
her into college football. You, on the other hand, married
a college football girl who literally was working for Nick
Saban correctly correct.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah, it's a very weird sort of dynamic because you
get asked a lot, Hey, how did you guys meet? Well,
my story with Savannah is well, I knew of her
for a long time. She's sort of running recruiting and
marketing for Nick Saban. Before that, she was with Freeze
at Old Miss. Before that, she was with Less at LSU.
So I knew of Savannah French for a long time,
and then she kind of knew of me because I'd

(26:54):
be around on Saturdays. I'd be around the programs a lot.
And then you finally hang out one time and you realize, well,
this feels a little bit different. Certainly, we got a
lot to talk about, we got a lot in common,
but there feels like there's a little bit beneath the
surface there. And so yeah, man, like I'm doing a
college football show and I'm probably the only one in
my space who, if his significant other were to come
on the show, would have way better stories than I do,

(27:17):
stories from takes and days and days.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Well, congratulations, man, I you Last week I was texted
with Jim Naggy, actually the GM of the Oklahoma Sooners,
and he was going to come on the show and
he might come on later this week, and he was like,
I actually got to go to this GM symposium and
then I saw a bunch of clips as your interview
in Herb Street. You're hosting different things, And we started

(27:42):
texting about just the growing industry. And Jim Naggy is
a good example, right, former NFL guy, he now runs
a crew of like they got a pretty accomplished staff.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
You know we're under him.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I mean you look a lot of people. The guy
that got me started at Fresno State has been there
since Bob Stoops and Lincoln.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Riley, and they got guys that have done a lot
so the.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
GM job in college football. I mean Ed Manowitz, who
I think headed up this GM symposium was one of
the original guys fifteen years ago for Nick Saban, but
it wasn't really called the GM. So what it is
now is a completely different ball game. You and I
were talking about the power these guys are going to have.
You had a theory in the next couple of years.
I mean, they're gonna be twenty twenty five guys making

(28:24):
like offensive coordinator money. So are we in like the
first inning of this thing? Like where are we in
the GMS? Their role, you know, in the NFL gets
a little tricky because the coach still has a lot
of juice. Are these guys working independently? Do they have
more juice than the coach? How's this all playing out
in college football?

Speaker 2 (28:40):
It's total case by case And I know there are
a lot of diehard college football fans watching this, but
let me tailor this answer more towards a secondary or
casual college football fan who sort of drives by the sport. Yes,
the general manager role, everyone's got one. Now. It went
from this this fringe sort of novel concept five years
ago to everyone's got one. That's about where the similarities am.

(29:02):
Because I could talk to Courtney Morgan at Alabama and
the roles and duties on his plate are totally different
than Naggy at Oklahoma, totally different than Austin Thomas, totally
different than Chad Boden. So you've got general manager in name,
and that's about where it ends as far as me
knowing what you do on a day to day basis.
Some of these guys are directly managing CAP, some of

(29:23):
them outsource that or delegate that entirely. Some of them
are heavily involved with their donor and booster class, some
of them outsource that entirely. Some of them are actually
constructing a roster. Some of them have final say, or
at least very influential say on depth on personnel. Some
of them would never touch personnel with a ten foot poll,

(29:43):
as Mema would say. So it's very very much a
role that everyone has. It's very much a high value,
high leverage role. But defining what that role really accomplishes
is such a case by case. But the second thing
you asked, this is where I think we're very much
evolving So in the NFL, it's not crazy for you

(30:05):
to know that the owner is that's the star on
top of the Christmas tree. But it's not crazy for
you to tell me a general manager outlasts a head coach.
A general managers there coach gets fired, that's not crazy.
In college football, we have not gone through this yet.
So in college football right now, I can tell you
there are at least two major programs out there where internally.

(30:26):
One of the concerns I've gotten from head coaches is
I'm in a situation where I'm not so sure who
I'm answering to. This is over the past year, I'm
not so sure who I'm answering to. I'm not so
sure what the authority tree is in this organization. And
there is a widely held belief that there have been
some hires at the general manager position over the past

(30:48):
few years that are built to outlive the head coach,
that are built to be in lockstep with the athletic director,
and the head coach is a lot more a variable
in that equation than a permanent or a constant. And
that's john relative to the history of college football. That's like,
within the last thirty seconds that's happening. Jah. So we
have not we have not even started to recalibrate the

(31:12):
way we think about this sport, the way we watch
this sport, to account for thinking that way. And I'll
tell you what else is going to happen because of that,
Because of head coach case by case no longer be
in the top of the ladder. Those earnings, those salary
dollars probably are seventy seventy five percent of what they
are now five ten years from now. And that's a

(31:32):
byproduct of number one, your org chart changing. Number two,
you've got to pay rev share to players, so you're
looking to take back money anywhere you can. Maybe your
head coach doesn't need to make eleven and a half
million a year. Maybe seven million's okay, So we are
not that far away. Then from forever, it was like
program act needs a head coach. Right in college football,
the AD kind of runs point and the president or

(31:54):
however their university set up with academia is heavily involved
the GM right point on the search. Then within the
next this calendar cycle or maybe within the next two years,
would you say there's a prominent GM who is like
with the AD, but really, he's it. The AD puts
it on him a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
The AD. I mean kind of their job is coaches
under them?

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Right?

Speaker 1 (32:15):
How is that where we're in kind of this weird joint?
Where is some of these gms going to have more
juice than the AD when it comes to the football program.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Yes, and I believe it'll purposely be set up like that.
I mean, if I'm an athletic director, worth my salt. Yeah,
I got a background of football. I know football, but
I am looking to hire a general manager for that purpose.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
And you mentioned Jim Naggy. All right, I'm pulling for
Brenton Vinables.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
I hope the dude wins ten games this year, but
if it were to go off the rails, if they
had a repeat of last year, let's just say the
Oklahoma job was open. I one hundred and fifty percent
believe Jim Naggy is running point on that coaching search.
I don't think he's going anywhere. I think he's there
even if the head coach and his staff is out.
And also you're in an athletic director transition right there.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Joe C.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Stigley Owen has been at OU forever and he's about
to head out the door. I don't think it's just
mere coincidence that they made sure they hired it. They
had an ironclad general manager in place before they started
that ad transition period. I don't even know who's getting
the ad job at OU. So yeah, I think absolutely
Maggie would run point there. Now there's some other ads
out there who wouldn't say, over my dead.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Body, is that going to happen.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
So, yet again, it's very much case by case right now,
it's very convoluted.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
You know, ten years ago, I think the Belichick Lombardy
thing would have been viewed a lot crazier than it
is now because of the economic, financial, you know, transaction
element of college football in the transfer portal. Even though
it's a lot different than free agency, there are some similarities.
You know, all these coaches, you know all these coordinators,
and you know a lot of these gms. What's the

(33:50):
buzz on that operation in that program? Because one from
a talent standpoint, like you know, Bill could overachieve with
guys because he had Tom in colege. Like you play Clemson,
you play whoever is good? Even I mean TCU, I'm
sure has a lot of talent week one, like, if
you don't have the talent in college football, you can
be a great. A lot of great coaches have not

(34:10):
won a lot of games in tough conferences and against
good teams because this is not the NFL, where there's
a lot of equality from guy to guy looking across,
you know, the white lines, at each other.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
I think their fundamental struggle there is going to be
acquisition and retention. So the two core pillars of building
a college football team right now, and the reason I
mentioned those in comparison to what he did in the
NFL is cause you're right, like broad strokes purposes, there's
some similarity in college football today. In the NFL, it
is night and day different. The Sunday game versus the

(34:41):
Saturday game is night and day different. You asked what
the buzz is. I'm telling you most coaches in the
ACC think he's going to fail. Most coaches in the
ACC think he's going to fall flat on his face.
And it's not cause they don't respect him as a coach.
Quite the opposite. I've had zero personnel people, zero staffers
in the ACC trash build Belichick the NFL coach.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
What they've said is it's.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
Sort of an insult to read all these headlines and
hear about how this guy and his team are going
to come in and show college football something, because the
way they look at it, college football is about to
teach Bill Belichick and his staff many more lessons than
they're going to teach college football. So I want you
to think about the dynamic here. Number one, if you
could convince me that the expectation for Bill Belichick is

(35:25):
to just do what North Carolina has always done, I
would stop talking right now. He can do that, he
can win seven and a half games. I've got no
doubt about that. I don't think, nor do I believe
you think they paid him ten million dollars a year
to come in and just do what North Carolina has
always done. So very clearly, the insinuation in the room,
the unspoken, is he's going to have us contending for

(35:45):
a playoff spot next couple of years. Okay, I don't
believe that's true. You've got to go acquire the talent.
So if you're going to compete for playoff spots above
and beyond just winning seven and a half, that means
you're not beating Louisville and Maryland for talent anymore. That
means you've really got to go head to head with
Clemson in Florida State and Miami. You've got to be
more attractive a destination than they are. All Right, that's

(36:07):
the first thing that's hard enough. The second thing that's
hard is you got to retain. So what you were
able to build a New England, and the culture and
the root system that was able to take in New
England was because there were no exit doors on the facility.
Once you're a New England patriot, you're a New England patriot.
You're not going anywhere. There's an exit door in every
room in college football figuratively, guys don't like the way

(36:29):
they're being treated. Guys don't like the tough love. I'm
not advocating for this. I actually hate that this is
the dynamic. But they can leave any time they want to.
And also there's that pesky twenty hour a week rule
where you're trying to install dude and you're trying to
run this kind of defense and that kind of offense,
and someone comes into your ear, says Bill, we can't
keep them any longer. We've maxed out our hours that

(36:50):
we can have these guys in the facility this week.
What's on that is that followed? Though it is followed,
it is at places like North Carolina, it's followed more
than certain other places that you know, following the rules
sometimes can bite you from the ankles a little bit.
So I just I hear these people who keep telling me, well,
he'll succeed in the in the college football game because

(37:11):
it's the right time, because college is like the NFL now.
I think college football is about to deal a very
harsh lesson And ironically, if they do get it done,
this year may be their shot because they got the
most workable schedule they'll probably ever have.

Speaker 1 (37:25):
As long as he's there, there's also a generational gap
of listen coaches. One thing that keeps you young, and
you see it with Pete Carroll. You see with Bill
is you're around young people and even when you get
in your seventies, saving was the same way. There's a
youthful energy. But you told a story on the show
he posted on your social media about a guy in
a competition to win a power for starting quarterback job

(37:48):
and he just can't stay off his phone and I
because he's quarterback. It's you know, it's a sexy thing
to say, but he cannot be alone. There's got to
be people all over the country in positions that are
eighteen nineteen freshmen that this phone and listen, we're all
guilty of it. Could just not put it down. And
you're not talking about like in the training room. You're
talking about in the meeting when they're coaching.

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Them up right, So how's bill?

Speaker 1 (38:08):
I mean, that's that's something all these guys are dealing with, right, Yeah,
so that's a problem.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
But you know that would be the nineteen ninety four
equivalent of we can't keep our kid out of jail,
like we can't keep him out of real trouble. You'll
notice headlines about players getting arrested, is falling off a cliff,
you don't drink. They're very anecdotal exceptions. I know that,
But hardly any kids get in trouble anymore. I've had

(38:35):
a kid, you not. I had a defensive coordinator in
the Big Ten last year. Say, dude, just between us,
I'd love for our kids to get a little closer
to the edge, like I wish they would get in
a little more trouble. We've just got I mean, we
We've got like future librarians walking around the hallways, and
this is like a playoff caliber team.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
So what you'll think.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Is you'll think, oh, did everyone like did character issues
and flaws disappear? No, they just got rechanneled. Now your
character flaw is not uh oh, I got to call
at three o'clock this morning. Our kid got arrested because
he was out at the bars too late. Now it's
this kid's battling from my quarterback spot. He's off in
the corner. He's on his phone. I cannot keep this
from in front of his face. It's an addiction. It's

(39:18):
not just It's not just oh, kids and their phones.
I'm talking. This is the first wave of kids coming
through your program who have been like this since they
were five years old. No one's done with this before.
It's the first generation, is the first wave of that.
So phone addiction is a huge problem. As dumb as
it sounds to someone who's fifty two years old just
driving to work in Houston, it's a huge problem. Belichick

(39:39):
will hear that, and his instinct will be the same
as Kirby Smart's instinct.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
He'll think, you know, be that.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
As it may. I think there are twenty five kids
out there per cycle that we can take that, but
that trend, we're already looking for the exceptions to the
rule in recruiting. We'll go find twenty five of them.
And John Kirby smart will because he gets his pick.
That goes back to what I'm telling you or what
I'm asking you. Do you think Bill Belichick, if the
expectations are higher there now, do you think he can

(40:09):
go out recruit the big dogs for the very limited
supply of legitimate, like high caliber players there are per cycle?
Or can you go mine the portal for former three
stars who were overlooked that are at New Mexico or
Fresno right now? And it hats off to him if
he does. It is an uphill battle to be able

(40:29):
to do that. Every single year.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
John Gruden put out a YouTube which I somehow watched
the whole thing, and a headline came out because he
said it and he was passionate about it. When he
Kirby was basically he went to Georgia and then he
went to Jacksonville and hung out. So it's like thirty
minutes at each place, and the Georgia one. I mean,
he's addressing the team, and you're talking about how he
wants to coach again, and he would love to coach

(40:53):
in the SEC. There was a clip that you if
you watch when he goes to Jacksonville. He's talking to
Tony Basselli, who if you google, went to USC and
Basselli and he said, I need a job and Beselli
said talk to me late in the you know, like
in December, aka USC. But that I haven't seen that
headline anywhere. But that was a subtle If I was
Lincoln Riley, like Tony, what the hell? Man? But this

(41:15):
Cruden college thing, because the NFL, it just might be
like a Belichick thing. He might not be able to
get another job in the NFL. But I wrote down
some I mean a couple of Florida's teams, right, Florida State, Florida.
I wrote down Auburn. But then I thought, like with Gruden,
I know Auburn has money go against Alabama. You brought
up another program that I have a buddy in Arizona

(41:36):
who is an alumni of this school and says, John,
you don't realize how much money we have nowadays. And
I was like, yeah, that kind of makes no sense
in that kind of is Arkansas razorbacks baby Pig Suey
because a little bit of the thing with the SEC.
It's like Auburn can hire Hugh Freeze when no one else.
There's a little renegade nature to some of these programs
all missed when they hired Lane, you know. And I
would put Arkansas in that vein where it's like all

(41:58):
the good would out weigh any couple negative headlines The
New York Times might write and listen John Gruden, the
Raiders were starting to make some progress. He knows what
he's doing, and he's got a lot of respect with
coaches like it's I think people would come work for him,
especially because Arkansas would be cutting these checks to the
coordinators and the position coaches. So what what's your thought

(42:18):
on John Gruden? Like I would say, it's if you
tell me John Gruden's a head coach in twenty twenty six,
I'd say it's like seventy five percent chance. In college.
The mahien is it is far more likely than not.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, the vibe I'm getting far more likely than not
he's a head coach somewhere, and if he's not, it
will be because the options on the table weren't good enough,
so to meet. The question is not can we find
programs to offer him a head coach. The question is
going to be is he willing to go work for
those programs? So yeah, yeah, I mean, if the Florida
State job came open, no brainer. If they offer him Auburn.

(42:53):
I think Auburn's a no brainer if they offer him
so Florida obviously. The reason I mentioned Arkansas to you
is because I think that's situations very untenable.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I think the Sam Pittman experiment, maybe.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
In the next four months, will have run its course,
which again I hate one of the most likable guys
you can ever hope to be around. But it's not
going well up there right now. And I just want
to mention three companies. One of them is Walmart, one
of them is JB. Hunt Trucking Shipping, and one of
them is Tyson Chicken. And people who are listening to
this may not know this, but all of them are

(43:25):
located in northwest Arkansas, and that is what powers University
of Arkansas Athletics. So every now and then when you
see them, you just randomly go hire John Calipari away
from Kentucky well, that's how they do it. It's not
cause the program is flush with cash. It's cause there
are big money people hanging around saying, look, we're not
going to light our money on fire. But if you

(43:45):
sell us on something, there is no check big enough,
too big rather for us to write.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
And I think they would do that.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
For John Gruden, what you got to be able to
do to win in college football is you've got to
be able to hire a great staff, which I think
he could do. You got to be able to acquire talent,
which I won one hundred percent think he can do.
You got to be able to manage a cap now,
which he's got a ton of experience in and he'd
bring people in the building to do that. You got
to be able to retain players. You've got to be
very flexible. And this is the part where I think

(44:12):
Gruden probably would have a leg up on Belichick. The
landscape of college football has been ever changing and ever
turning recently, and I think he could roll with those
changes a lot more readily than maybe someone so set
in their ways. But lastly, you got to have an
infusion of juice into your fan base and your donor base.
When you get hired. That Belichick did do that at

(44:34):
North Carolina huge, and I think John Gruden would do that,
And so people would turn cartwheels in Fayettville, Arkansas and Rogers,
Arkansas in the surrounding area if they were to go
get him. And I'm like, you like, I think it's
more likely than not this happens in the next year.
I just wonder where it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
You know, it's easier. I mean, I don't know Sam
Pittman at this point in times buyout, it's probably easier
to get rid of him than some of these other coaches.
In one theme, and you talked about it right before
we hit record, is the buyouts of these coaches has
gotten more complicated because of paying the players. I mean,
I would imagine Brian Kelly's is still massive, Lincoln Riley's
is still massive. So while you know, I think, you know,

(45:27):
I'll give Tony BASSELLI to defend him. He's probably just
a little tongue in cheap, you know, shooting the shit
with having conversation. But there is some line of truth
given that Lincoln hasn't have much success. But are they
just going to pay him sixty million dollars to go
away when you're also paying the players. Same thing with
LSU and the buyout of Brian Kelly. But at those programs,
if it does get bad enough, like if you go
seven to five one of those two teams, it would

(45:48):
be really, really ugly. And you talked about this all
the time, especially in the Big Ten, but specifically the
SEC is everyone thinks they're going to win nine or
ten games, and it's just there's not enough wins to
go around. So someone's gonna win us. See last year,
like they easily could have won ten, but they won seven.
And it's gonna happen to one of these teams again
like Sharon Moore, like he could be way better this

(46:09):
year and still barely get to eight and it kind
of looks weird, you know, So I think Gruden, who knows,
maybe his options expand a little bit. But the money
thing to get these guys to write these huge fifty
million dollars a lot of money to buy a guy
out when you also got to pay the players another
twenty twenty five, right, especially when the money is real.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
The money used to not be real, Like I mean,
we're we're fresh off of world where Texas A and
M looked at paying Jimbo Fishers seventy million dollars to
not coach, and they said, Okay, yeah, we'll do that.
Just insane. That will never ever ever happen again. Those
clauses won't even be in contracts anymore, there's no way.
So that's a bygone era already, and that's literally three

(46:47):
years ago.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
I believe it is the.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Most under talked about big story in college football right now,
and that is the unwillingness to fire. I mean, almost
every head coaches back in the SEA this year, Almost
every coordinator is back in the SEC this year, and
that's never happened before. And the reason it's not because
they're all great. The reason is because the standards have changed.
The barrier to fire someone has changed because you got

(47:12):
to pay real money. And by real money, I mean
everyone's all of a sudden got to adhere to a
budget because you got to pay the players. You got
to pay athletes twenty plus million dollars a year. And
so where's that going to come from? Well, it comes
from that endless pool that you used to spend on
water slides and fountains and buyouts, and now you got
to actually account for that money. And what's crazy is
Florida is the best example of this man. Florida is

(47:35):
still led by Billy Napier. I think Florida could be
a wonderful, great story this year. Could be a great team,
got a tough schedule, could be a great team. John
Billy Napier is not even the head coach of that team.
If it's five years ago, they fire him mid season
last year. If this is five years ago, instead they
retain him. He pulls the nose up, we find out
who DJ Lagway is. They kill it second half of

(47:55):
the year. I got empower rated as a top ten
caliber team coming into this year. It begs the question
how many coaches got fired one year too early in
the history of college football? And now how many more offenses, defenses,
et cetera. Programs in general will reap the benefit of
money being real and they're guys being retained and being
given more length of rope because they can't afford to

(48:17):
be fired. Now, the follow up to that is, what
if your program's totally dead in the water, what if
you freeze? Is six and six again this year at Auburn.
Auburn is a place that's had a ton of churn.
They're still playing. They're still paying Brian Harson. By the way,
what if the program's just dead on arrival, recruiting class
falls apart.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
No one wants to be there.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
What do you do do you spend that kind of
money again, because Freeze has got a big buy out
and you're going to have the Natives with torches and
pitchforks outside the gates, like, what are you doing with
our program? We got to make a move. We got
to make a move. Well, you got to spend money
to make that move. You got to spend sixty million
to fire someone, you got to spend seventy million to
go get a new staff. You still got to pay
the players. And that's the that's the catch twenty two.

(49:01):
Everybody's dealing with this now, and I don't I just
don't think it's being talked about.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
It's not being picked up enough on the radar yet.
Well I'll give you one. I mean, the standard at
LSU was to win a national championship. I mean, they
had three coaches in this decade. They've all won national championships.
I mean, and the worst one of the three had
the best team of the three in at Ojeron, But
I mean the Brian Kelly thing, the floor felt so high.
Even if it's like, oh, he's never even if you
told me he never won a Natty, I'd be like,

(49:25):
he's going to have a bunch of like ten to
eleven win seasons, and it's like, what if they win
eight this year. I mean, you just look at the
schedule every year in the SEC. We saw last year
a couple of games they just fell apart. You'd probably
have a better feel for the roster. But everyone I've
known Doug nuss Meyer for twenty years, his son has become,
i mean, one of the better quarterbacks in the country,
a really, really good player. We know the roster's always loaded,

(49:48):
but like I watched that SEC show, I'm like, there
is a chance. And I've always believed this. Regions in
college football matter in terms of where you're coaching and
where you're from. Urban wasn't out like or Urban could
have coached in Alaska and won national championships. But most guys,
Southern guys thrive in the south West Coast guys have
thrived historically in the West Coast. The northeast guys, it's

(50:10):
like kind of a it's hard to be an outsider
in the South when you're not winning, and it feels
like Brian Kelly, like, what if they go eight nine
wins and don't make the playoffs this year? Obviously the
money thing, like you just factored in, but that would
be it'd be a colossal failure so far. Correct.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yeah, So I think the two most alarming things about
Kelly entering this year at LSU is we're coming off
a year where they couldn't run the ball, they couldn't
play defense. So to go back to your initial point,
if you were to tell me he's not going to
win a national title, Okay, at least they're going to
be able to run the ball and play good defense.
They did neither of those last year. So it's kind

(50:49):
of slid further and further away from what you would
think the identity of a Brian Kelly team would be.
All right, let me tell you what happened with him
at LSU. Give me like two minutes on this. When
he got to LSU. Yeah, he was an outside so
was Nick Saban. When he got to LSU. Saban understood
the importance of harnessing Louisiana it's a first ten priorities
on his to do list. Fill this building with people

(51:10):
who know Louisiana. Fill my staff with people who can
recruit Louisiana. Put a fence up around Louisiana, and just
keep all the talent in state and will win a title.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
And that's exactly what they did, and they won a title.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Brian Kelly came in and I'm told he's been pretty
remorseful about this internally since then. He came in and
I don't know if it was Ego, I don't know
if it was Hubris, I don't know what it was.
He viewed his way, his formula to win as a
formula that can be copied and pasted anywhere. And it's

(51:42):
not so much about fitting, it's not so much about
unique geographical culture.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
What one at Notre Dame will win at LSU.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
And he got to the point where it was almost like,
you want to bet, you want to test my theory,
watch and see, and he flushed the program of Louisiana influence.
He flushed a lot of people out of that building
that were from Louisiana, some of it just for the
sake of doing it. And so what happens when you
do that. If you win, no one will care. But

(52:10):
the moment that it doesn't take off like a forest fire,
you are going to be the absolute scorn of everybody
on every message board, every talk radio show, because they know,
they know, because people from Louisiana when they get fired,
they're still in Louisiana and they talk. And so they
had a program that was regressing year over year, and

(52:31):
they had none of their people in the building hardly,
and so what happened is administratively, even above his head,
he was sort of given an ultimatum, you better course
correct this.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
And there were certain non negotiables. Now I'll tell you.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
One of them was Austin Thomas coming in as his
general manager. And people don't need to know who that
name is, but I'm telling you he's one of the
best gems in the country. Came back there from Old
Miss He is a Louisiana guy. I'm in that building
at least once or twice a year. There are people
from Louisiana and that building. Again, they hired a great
defensive staff last year, sort of what Lincoln did at LSU.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
It just takes a year or two.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
So I think they've made the right moves. I think
he's made the right moves. I think there's a very
very striking parallel between the trajectory of Brian Kelly's LSU
and the trajectory of Lincoln Riley's USC. They made poor
decisions hiring at the outset, they suffered the consequences.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
They course correct two or three or four years in.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
The big story is are they going to be given
time to let that new root system take because you
are in very short supply of patients in this sport
four years into your tenure, and that's not even unfair.
It's not unfair for those to be the expectations at
USC or LSU. So that's what happened at LSU, and
they're still trying to get back on track from that.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
Do you think them you know, Alabama, I think the
ad last year, remember you put out that tweet like
basically asking for money. They can get talent coming there,
but now with the financial they just have some limitations
that maybe some bigger fight schools with bigger boosters with
more money maybe don't have. Are they losing guys that
they used to when we go you walked out to
an LSU practice ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, they probably

(54:10):
two deep NFL guys. Now, that backup goes, well, if
someone paid me seven hundred grand, and Brian Kelly's like,
I don't know, I got to allocate my money. It's
a little more complicated. You think that has impacted Alabama
and obviously LSU the last couple of years of roster
hard for them to financially compete with just other schools
that might have an enormous billionaire booster behind them.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
I'm gonna be honest with you, I think it's overblown
as a story. It exists, I'm telling you, I'm not
denying it exists. I know the particulars in some of
these recruitments, in some of these portal moves, and it's
not it's not so much highest bidder every time. In fact,
a lot of times it's not highest bidder. I know
the layering that goes into a lot of these decisions,

(54:48):
and sometimes it is just flat out a billionaire came in,
put it on the table, Okay, we gotta bow out.
It's just really really overstated as the core tenant and
a lot of this and I will also so say
some of the feedback i've gotten from gms and player
personnel types, not even in the SEC, but about the
SEC over the past couple of weeks talking to him,
is the rev Share stuff that everyone thinks won't hold

(55:12):
up in court has more teeth in it right now.
That decision has more teeth than people are claiming it does.
That doesn't mean that it's going to be blanketly adhered to.
But what I want to do is I want to
give myself another twelve to twenty four months now that
this new system, this new way of doing things is
in place, because I think what we're going to see

(55:32):
is I think we're going to see that talking point
you talked about decrease a little bit, and I do
think we'll probably head to more of just a straight
up rev Share era, which is notable given the program
you're talking about. Because the last time I was at LSU,
I was sitting in Brian Kelly's office and he looked
me in the eye and said, I cannot wait until
we get to this new era, and his fingers crossed.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
He's saying, I hope it's what they present it as.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
I hope that the players get the money, but I
hope that we all have roughly the same thing to
offer in red share calls. At that point, it's back
in my wheelhouse. I love evaluation, I love development, I
love that being what college football is about. I love
knowing my guys are going to be in the building
two or three years. So I can just say if
we steer towards that harbor, by his own words, it's

(56:19):
what he claims he wants, we'll see if they get
it done, you know, speaking outsiders debor.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Obviously, what he did at Washington, and he was a
shooting star and it was incredibly took him to the
national championshould be Texas. But he's not a Southern guy, honestly.
I mean, he spent most of his career in the Dakotas, Right,
so you come to Alabama, you couldn't turn down that job.
But it's sometimes it's not easy to replace the guy
like that. I mean, he's a one of one. It's

(56:47):
like replacing John Wooden or something. So I mean by
early last year, people were complaining about what he wore
on game day. Right, he wasn't wearing a collared shirt.
He's wearing a T shirt under his pullover. What's that
rope right there? I mean, what do we have to
do this year to kind of because it could exponentially
speed up an anger behind that if all of a

(57:08):
sudden they win eight nine games, they're not in the
playoffs this year. Right.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
You know what's funny is the war.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
I like him, I'm a fan, I'm rooting for him.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
The wardrobe thing last year, I can't help but remember
they lost to Vandy and he was wearing like a
jumpsuit on the sideline. Everyone hated it. They go blow
out LSU wear in the same jumpsuit. No one says
a word about his wardrobe. So it's just so funny
to watch that unfold last year. Listen, Kaitlin de Bor's
a stud. He is the absolute right guy for that job.

(57:34):
I don't think he gave two seconds of thought to
I'm replacing a legend. I mean, I've talked to him
about this several times. He'll look you straight in the eye,
and if you're off the record, he'll shoot straight with you.
It was not so much can I replace Nick Saban?
In fact, a lot of the type A one percenters
don't think like that.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Now, dude.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
They look in the mirror and say, I may be
the best to ever do it. Like, for all I know,
I may be the best to ever do it if
I'm put in the right situation. I don't care who
I'm replacing. And he doesn't say it that arrogantly. I'm
sort of speaking for him here, But de Boy didn't
look at Alabama and say, can I replace? Save it?

Speaker 1 (58:10):
He looked and said, am I going to be given
everything I need?

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Because a lot of times when you're replacing a legend,
the reason that doesn't work is the legend hung on
too long and so you're having a take on a
rebuild project with unfair expectations. Well, he may have high
expectations there, but he inherited a world class program. I mean,
that's one or one A right now in college football.
And I'm telling you, dude, they stepped into a hurricane

(58:33):
last year, and no one was going to feel sorry
for him because it was Alabama. But I'm very privy
to some of the things they dealt with a year ago,
and it was what an eight win season, nine win season, whatever.
I always viewed it through the prism of twenty twenty five,
and I think they'll be really good this year. And
I more importantly think you need to look like Ohio
State last year has all these dudes that forego the

(58:54):
draft and they don't leave via the portal even though
there are bigger offers.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Well that's Bama.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
This year. They got a lot of guys probably second
third round grades, could have made twice the money elsewhere
in the portal if they wanted to stay in college.
They all stayed there. Point being when you take over
a job by your second year in modern college football,
three transfer portal cycles have come and gone. So everyone
who's still there wants to be there. Everyone who's still
there is your guy, so you can push them last

(59:20):
year in spring. They will never admit this publicly. They
had to actively back off how they pushed guys in
spring because they knew we just took over this job.
A lot of these dudes are saving dudes. They're looking
for the exit door. We've got a post spring portal
window we have to worry about. So yeah, man, we
want to install all our stuff. We want to go
balls to the wall, but we got to be careful

(59:41):
because we got to have a team to put on
the field this fall. That's just the reality of college football.
Now a year later, they're not dealing with that at all.
I think they in Georgia, I think have the two
best coaching staffs in the league. And I think everyone
knows that about Georgia. I'm not sure everyone thinks that
yet about Alabama, but I would.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Because grubs back, so he got his boy back, he.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
Got him back, and he's got I mean, Caine Womack
was a former head coach who they took on his
defensive coordinator, and Kane Walmack's done a really good job.
But I mean, they've mo linguist coaching DB's there. It's
just a they got really really good staffers. They got
one of the best stream the conditioning staffs in the country.
So I would be shocked if they're not in the
mix this year. But if I'm wrong and they're not

(01:00:23):
in the mix, you're right, You're right and rightfully so
there will be angst and anger and bitterness down there.
You cannot take the handoff from Nick Saban with the
program as Pristine's it still is and failed to make
playoffs two years in a row.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
You just can't do that. So of LSU and Alabama,
who do you feel more confident is going to be
one of the twelve teams in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Bama. I think Bama is a better team. I trust
their balance more offensively, I like them along the lines
of scrimmage a little bit better. I think you may
be looking at the best wide receiver dB Combo in
the league in Alabama, if not one of in the
conte And I just Garrett Nussmeyer I am higher on
as a quarterback because I've.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Seen him do it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
But I think Bama and the aggregate can get plenty
good enough offensive production. I just there's some stuff about
LSU from a transfer, portal infusion standpoint and having a
front loaded schedule. They got to come out of the
gate hot, and I have not seen them do it
under Brian Kelly. It's been a chronic issue for them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
And I think I.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Counted four or five losable games they have before Halloween.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
So they have to.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Take all these new pieces, and I mean I'm hearing
very mixed reviews offensive line out of fall camp. That's
what fall camp is for, So it's not the end
of the world. I think I feel a little more
confident in Bama right now.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
So if we just pulled people in the South, you know,
Texas would feel like a lock to go to the playoffs.
I'd say most people pick Georgia. Is that fair to
be a playoff versation?

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
I would say Texas Georgia some combo of one to
Bama LSU, some combo of three four.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
So I mean they're gonna be teams like South Carolina.
You know, Florida's got some my hopes. Yeah, I wanted
to ask you about the quarterback situation. I watched the
SEC Show, and I didn't watch that much South Carolina
last year. Obviously you can see Sellers big time athlete.
His story about getting injured kind of makes some sense
how he ends up in South Carolina. I mean, DJ,
you felt like I was hearing about this guy and

(01:02:32):
I'm not even a die hard recruiting guy sixteen years old.
I mean, he's a highly touted, big time player. You
know that John Mattier. So from a quarterback standpoint, you
know DJ Lagway, all of a sudden, if he is fantastic,
that team could be nine to ten wins. Yes, they
played the toughest schedule in the country and could still
do that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
You are you are hitting on what I think is
the biggest story in that league, and that is for
the first time in a long time, the Tier two
of the SEC consists of like half a dozen teams
that could reasonably win the conference. They have varying degrees
of percentage chance to win the conference that you never
would have said five or six years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
You're talking about Florida.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
There, Florida A DJ Lagway has a chance to be
the best player in the country this year.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
Is that talented, He's that skilled.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
His deep ball accuracy on top of just the athleticism
he gives you with his legs. If he can stay healthy,
which is the biggest concern in Gainsville right now. He's
had shoulder and calf issues. If he can stay healthy,
that can be an electric offense. And I'll tell you this, man,
You think about that and you think, ooh, Florida electric
offense score forty five a week. Maybe they don't come

(01:03:43):
out of the gatehot the follow up to Florida. The
reason I believe in him as being more than just
some paper tiger type pretender is they could win a
game twenty one nineteen the first few weeks of the
season if they need to. They're great along the lines
of scrimmage. They got really good tailback and offensive lined up,
defensive person up front.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Seven matches up with anyone in the conference.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
So if DJ is not red hot on fire out
of the game, I think they'll be Okay. I picked
him a tier to win the Heisman, So that's how
high I am on John Mattier at Oklahoma. I think
he will fundamentally transform what they do. You're gonna have
some folks watch highlights of him in practice. They're gonna say, Ooh,
I don't like that arm angle, I don't like that release.
Look at the lack of quality of competition he played

(01:04:23):
last year, all notable. I'm just telling you I think
he's going to be a stud. I think he had
like eight hundred something yards rushing last year, and it's
his arm talent I'm most impressed with. So he's a
true dual threat. A and M will not be what
I just said at quarterback. There'll be a lot better
in the vertical passing game. But they will be a
team that makes no mistake what their identity is. They're

(01:04:44):
going to run the ball on you. They're going to
run the ball some more. Mike Elko's got both hands
around the throat of that defense. After the way they
finished last year. He will not allow that to be
a repeat issue. They're gonna play ugly football. It will
not be aesthetically pleasing, but that's the kind of team
that just hangs a ten and two on you out
of nowhere because they brutalized everyone. I also love that

(01:05:05):
recruiting in college football in general has had to account
for up tempos.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Spread.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Your linebackers are smaller, your defensive personnel and the aggregate
is smaller. And every now and then someone just throws
out an offensive line that averages three hundred and thirty
across the front and three tailbacks who were bruisers, and
they take advantage of that. That's what A and M
can do this year. South Carolina. Yeah, there were nine
to three last year. Dude, they're two plays away from
eleven to one last year. I know they got to

(01:05:32):
watch that SEC show. They easially could have beat LSU.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
They got the shaft in that game.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
Man. I'm not one to throw officials under the bus,
but they got the shaft in that game. But here's
the problem. We had Beamer on the show in the
spring and I said, does your building have a firm grasp?
That as great as last year was. They don't get
to carry any of that over. Like momentum is so
stupid college football. People talk about carrying momentum over year
to year. It's fake.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
It doesn't exist. You start zero and zero in the fall.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
And they got to replace a lot of wide recis
you were talent a five NFL departures from the from
the defense, and they recruit Okay, they don't recruit at
the level where they just seamlessly backfill that stuff. But
they could have the best quarterback in the country in
Leonora Sellers. So there's I didn't even mention Tennessee here.
I didn't mention like Tennessee or I.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Wanted to hit on Oklahoma with you because John Matier,
I mean a lot of people are high on him
bringing his offensive coordinator. I went to the Oklahoma Texas
game and Oklahoma's defense is actually pretty good. And they
were in that game at halftime and then unraveled on
offense and the score looked bad. But their defense is good.
Their coach knows what he's doing on defense. Offense was
a joke, the Arnold thing. Now he's at Auburn. They

(01:06:40):
are really high on job Matier. They had a bunch
of injuries last year right to wide receivers, an offensive
linemen could Oklahoma because a lot of people said, like
Texas is going to make the transition easier than Oklahoma.
It kind of overwhelmed Oklahoma a little bit. But clearly
they are higher on this team going into this season
than they have been on previous from a talent standpoint,

(01:07:00):
starting with quarterback, where Oklahoma historically has been pretty damn
good at that position right the last twenty five years.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Yes, yes, you saw a team last year that had
a fatal flaw. You didn't see a team that was
fatally flawed. You saw a team that made a poor
hired offensive coordinator, a quarterback never got off the ground,
and a top twenty defense got wasted, and a lot
of wide receiver injuries impeded them.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
So they did what they needed to do.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
They just they put Briton Fvnnables back call in plays defensively.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
Brent Vinnables has no business being a CEO type head coach.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
He ought to be a guy who delegates offensively, and
in this case, they went and hired their new quarterback's
former offensive coordinator.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
So that's a great package deal.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
And he will have his hands on that defense due
that conservatively should be a top fifteen defense this year.
Underreported is the fact that they also went to Cal
and got Jayden Ott at running back and no one's
talking about him because of Jommeteer. So they got good
tailback talent, they got excellent quarterback talent. Side of a
kid named Dion Burks who they took from Purdue last year,

(01:08:03):
would have blown up last year had he not gotten hurt.
Outside of him, they retooled that wide receiver room. That's
what they had to do. So, dude, Oklahoma is a
top ten caliber team and I don't care who doesn't
know that because they'll play Michigan in Auburn the first
four weeks of the year, I think, and you'll see
they have an egregious road game at Temple. By the way,

(01:08:23):
I have no idea what they're doing. They go to Temple,
not on Sunday, not synagogue, like they literally go to
Temple to play a football game. But outside of that, John,
I think they're going to be undefeated when they play
Texas in the Red River Game, and I think by
that point everyone's attention will be all O you. They
next to Florida have the second toughest schedule to me

(01:08:45):
in the country. Both of those teams are equipped, I think,
to navigate that and be in contention. And you got
to think if either of those teams can go nine
and three, that's the kind of schedule that you can
get in the playoffs. Going nine and three against Okay, I'll.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
Get you out of here on this. A guy who
became star would be strong. But I mean a household
name in the SEC was James Franklin. He went to
Penn State and less I had a lot of money
on them against Notre Dame and he throws that pass
across his body and that team, that team was really good,
and this team is supposed to be just as good.
I mean the clips of Lavara Arrington's true freshman son.

(01:09:20):
You're like, this guy looks exactly like Michael Parsons and
Abdield Carter.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Where do they find these guys.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
There's no disputing James is an elite recruiter, especially he's
an offensive guy, and he dominates defensive recruiting. Offensively, they
got a quarterback that got a good offensive coordinator.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
I know I've heard you talk a lot about this.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
If not now then when not even just winning the
national championship, but just winning some of these big games,
beating Oregon, beating Ohio State.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
You know, they don't get that much credit right there.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Two playoff wins last year because they weren't against a
Tennessee An Alabama. They were against SMU and Boise State
and then they played Notre Dame and they lost. So
what you know these programs, you know, these coaches, what's
your take on Penn State going into this year?

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
Unfair?

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Like crazy because they're gonna be viewed as like in
Ohio State and Alabama, Georgia's like almost like national championship
or bus and the guy's never even beat a team
in the top five. Yeah, it's so crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Again, if we were to take a casual NFL man
who kind of sort of watches college, they would think
if you told them James Franklin had douters going into
last year, Penn State had dowters going into last year,
they would think, oh, they made the semi finals. Obviously
that quieted the doubters, right. No, No, every hater who
was there is still there because the haters said, you

(01:10:34):
can't beat the big teams, and you can't win a
national title. And they got a shot at Ohio State
they lost. They got a shot against Oregon in the
Big Ten title game, they lost. They win two playoff
games against teams you're never going to get credit for
beating an SMU and Boise, and the second they face
off against Notre Dame they lose. So they're all still there.
I got to tell you, man, they are not shying
away from this stuff up there, like we're gonna I

(01:10:56):
was talking to them two days ago and they are.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
They are very bullish on this team.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
They are very bullish that they hit on their wide
receiver acquisitions out of the portal, which is where they've lacked.
They have not had difference makers at that position. I
can tell you talking to defensive people in the Big Ten,
no one fears Penn State beating them by throwing the football.
And if that is different this year, that's the big change.
It's not Drew Aller magically becomes a better player. I

(01:11:22):
kind of think he is who he is by this point.
Does he have better talent out wide to throw the
ball to. I mean, you've got a backfield, you're not
going to have the tight end production that you had,
so you got to have good wide receiver production. If
they can do that. They got two thousand yard tailbacks.
They're probably nine deep on their offensive line. It's one
of the deepest overall units in power for right now.

(01:11:43):
They got Jim Knowles from Ohio State. They went and
got a kid, Amory Campbell, I believe, from North Carolina.
You're not going to hear anyone talk about him. He
is a home run out of the portal. They're going
to green dot him. They will actually have him call
plays defensively this year in all likelihoods. So they've got
good defensive person they got good offensive personnel. The question
is are they still a seven or are they a

(01:12:04):
nine and a half? Like if they're a seven, good
solid team, probably no more capable.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
Of doing anything more than they've done the.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Last few years. It's just it's like fractions of inches
them and Clemson both. It's fractions of inches that it
takes to go from being good to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Great, And there's no way to know that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
You can't even I'm gonna go out there watching practice
later next week.

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
I think I won't know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
You don't know until they play, and they don't play
anyone until really Oregon in week five, and candidly they
should win that game. Oregon's taking a new quarterback into
Happy Valley, Penn State I think has got to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
Buy before that week.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Oregon's got to travel across the country not rested. If
they don't even win that game, I don't know how
you convinced me that anything's changed.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Well, if we were doing a draft of like playoff locks,
would Penn State make it pass like two dud? The
gotta be them?

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
How do they miss?

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
I mean they're a playoff lock, right, I mean that's
what they feel like. So can they get it done? Well? Josh,
enjoy you going to a lot of training camps coming up.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
I'm gonna try and hit Oregon and Bama and Penn
State this week.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Yeah, you're all over the country. Well enjoy it and
congrats on all your success. And we'll be watching and
subscribe to his YouTube channels. Just I don't know, shooting
like a rocket ship with the numbers. So thanks again
for coming on and man excited for this, so he's
excited to watch you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Pleasure as always, sir, I have a go on the
volume

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3 and Out - Shedeur FOURTH On Depth Chart, Stafford Injury, Anthony Richardson Officially A BUST, College Football Preview w/ Josh Pate

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}3 and Out - Shedeur FOURTH On Depth Chart, Stafford Injury, Anthony Richardson Officially A BUST, College Football Preview w/ Josh Pate