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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is up everybody? How are we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I made a mistake where I did not bring a
piece of my traveling audio equipment. It's basically the thing
that holds everything together. It connects my mic, which is
like a mic that you know, a high level mic
that you would use in the studio, to my computer.
It's this contrapment called a H four zoom recorder, and
(00:43):
I left it on my desk, so I had to improvise.
I had limitations on what I could get immediately. I
had to go with a USB mic, which is horrendous.
So I apologize for the audio. Mike Malone, the old
Denver Nuggets, won a championship with jo With Joker, once
(01:04):
said when he was the King's head coach, he hated
when any player ever said my bad. He said, my
bad gets your ass kicked. He was still right, because
it's like when someone says my bad, like I dropped
the ball, my bad, you screw up at work?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
My bad?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
No shit, we know you did it. You know this
is my fault. But you don't need me to tell
you that because you can hear it. The audio quality
is not up to the three and out middle Cooff standards,
but I didn't have any other options. Somehow I'm staying
across the street from a target, and it might be
(01:39):
in that I haven't been to. I don't know fifty
targets in my life, in various states, in various places,
from Hawaii to Philly to the California. It's the worst
target I've ever seen in terms of electronic section. It
was a joke, so it didn't help me out much.
I didn't have time with Amazon, so this USB mic
is gonna have to work. So again, apologize. I'd say
(02:03):
my bad, but we don't say that in my family
because we know it's your bad.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I screwed up. So let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
We're gonna do a mail bag at John Middlecoff. At
John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those dms. Get
your questions answered here on this little old podcast. Happy
Fourth of July week. Hope you're having a good time.
Enjoy yourself. A nice pool, a nice lake, a nice ocean,
some cocktails, some beers, your family, some hot dogs. I mean,
is there anything better than a good hot dog? A
(02:31):
Bruski at like nine am on fourth of July. So
hopefully everyone's having a good week, a better week than
Malik Beasley.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I saw the dudes. The dudes was in debt over
his ass.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
He is obviously was in deep with gambling. If one
big Jay writes an article and blames anyone but Malik
Beasley in this situation, I just googled it before we
hopped on, you know, and people love blaming gambling. I've
been gambling for twenty years. He's made sixty million dollars.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
And he's twenty eight years old.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Like, I do not want to hear anything about any
from anyone blaming anyone but that guy, because it'd be
one thing. You know, Milik Beasley, young player, only made
a couple of million dollars, made some bad decisions.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I'm like, listen, could it was twenty.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Three years old, I could have sixty million dollars in
career earnings and he was on pace to make another
fifty in this next contract. I'm sorry, bro, I don't
want to read one article on the Athletic about like
pointing the finger at someone else with that guy. But
before we dive into some football, god, it's just it's
(03:42):
it's head scratching. I do you tell you about my friends,
my partners, and the official ticketing app of this podcast,
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lowest prices guaranteed. Okay at John Middlecoff. Let's let's do
some mail. Bad questions at John Middlecoff. Mail bad questions
easy at John Middlecuff. Sebastian, just checking to see if
you saw this. Not sure if you answered this already,
(04:25):
but I'll add to it. Which quarterback would you have
called had you had just taken over the Raiders. I
think what he might be referring to is we had
on John Spidep, the GM of the Raiders, and he made, like,
I don't want to say an offhanded joke because he
was kind of serious, but he said people their job
(04:48):
might hit the floor, or maybe he'd be embarrassed to say,
maybe that's what it was.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Maybe he was like, I'd.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Be embarrassed to admit who we called in our pursuit
of quarterbacks. And then I kind of threw in the jab,
like you called Andy Reid about Mahomes and he said no.
But then I started thinking what quarterbacks could he have called?
That would have been pretty insane, right, Like would he
have called on Lamar Jackson, Probably pretty doubtful. Would he
(05:17):
have called on Josh Allen, Probably pretty doubtful. So I
think it's fair to say Mahomes Josh Lamar in their
own little category. I don't think you'd waste that call
if you were him, because you just know. Even if
you offered Max Crosby and seven first rounders, which I
actually think I think I read one time or I
heard on someone say that the max you can offer
(05:37):
us four, even though I think the most we've ever
seen is three, which is weird because you could offer
your entire draft, but you can only offer four first rounders.
Could be wrong on that because I don't think we're
ever going to see that, But I would imagine you
call on Joe Burrow. Cincinnati's a weird place. Now, I
think you have a good idea what they're going to say. No,
(05:58):
But I think that is the one elite quarterback in
which you would call and you're okay, obviously getting that.
You know you're probably gonna get a hell no, hang up.
But it's just that place is fucking weird. And once
upon a time Carson Palmer ended up on the Raiders
from the Cincinnati Bengals. So you just never say never.
Justin Herbert no chance because he's in the division. You
(06:20):
wouldn't make that call like CJ. Stroud, Jayden Daniels, probably not.
Then I think you start getting in the world of
like Brock Purdy, Dak Prescott, Jared Goff, you probably Kyler Murray,
kind of that kind of group. You know, Jalen Hurst
just won. You probably not calling him. But I would
(06:42):
imagine anywhere from six to like fifteen, you're calling on
an every one of.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Those guys and you end up with Geno Smith.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So I would call on all those guys, but I
think Burrows the one elite guy that you're just like, hey, why.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Don't we just place a call? What do we gotta lose?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Mike Brown getting mad at me, who cares? Aaron Rodgers
on Aaron Rodgers. Do you think the sponsors like State
Farm knew he was weird? If they knew he was weird,
they would have given him the deals. I knew once
his immunization comment he was done being a double check guy.
(07:19):
I think he would have made less had he had
the endorsement money he made. I think he would have
made less than had he I'm not quite sure what
that means. You think he would have made less in
the NFL. My husband told me, don't bother on the
enigma waste of time and can't see him the same. Yeah,
(07:41):
I mean, I think culturally the time, it was a
very like if you said I would never get a
COVID vaccine in twenty twenty five, absolutely when no one
would give a shit and ninety percent of people would
be like yeah, anyone under like sixty like yeah, I'm
not letting that touch my body either in twenty twenty five,
But in twenty twenty, you know, it's all about the timing. Culturally,
(08:05):
the way he was on the forefront of that. It
was a very hot button issue at the time, and
only one message was allowed you know things think culturally
how different things are now right, I actually see a
lot of people going the opposite way. I'm not even
just talking about the immunization thing, but just in society,
(08:26):
what flies what doesn't fly, So a lot matters at
the point in time you're at, right and everything in
twenty twenty, twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Honestly, I didn't even notice. I mean, it's clear he
hasn't been on these.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Whatever commercials in a while, but in terms of at
that time when they dropped him, he was just getting
crushed and it was for like, I'm in agreement, it
was over the COVID stuff, But.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I just think it was a time in a place
and it was such a hot button issue and he
was the most famous guy in the NFL. Do you
know this that like Sean Payton, Kyle Shanahan, Gruden, Andy Reid,
there was like six or seven of them that kept
getting fined. Sean Payton and Kyle Shanahan were getting fined
(09:21):
constantly for not wearing the masks and pulling it down
all the time, and they refused to pay. They never paid,
and somehow like they told Gruden because Gruden ended up
cutting the league like one hundred thousand dollars check, and
Sean Payton told him on a phone call, like, you're
fucking nuts. They'd have to come to Chase Bank and
fight me over that money. So it's like it's not
(09:44):
like anyone took away Sean Payton's juice or earning power.
I mean, he had a movie made about him, So
I don't know, I think some of that stuff stupid.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And listen, you like.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Your marketing power for Aaron Rodgers, he probably cashed.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
In pretty big time, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Now if you're these corporations like they like things pretty
cookie cutter, right, and when they're gonna pay you a
lot of money, they need you to buy into whatever
they're doing. And State Farm doesn't want controversy regardless, Like politically,
who knows what the people running their campaign politically think
or care. They might be completely aligned, but they don't
(10:25):
want to have to deal with that. So it's just
I don't want to deal with anything. I want everything
as straight as possible. Like Patrick Mahomes pretty easy corporate
partner Josh Allen Lamar Jackson. It's like they're just not
that controversial. They just don't say anything which you could
say is kind of fake in the sense that they
(10:45):
actually have beliefs. There are things that if they said,
would make major headlines, but for them, it's just not
worth it. And where I would defend them is like,
why do you want to deal with the And I
actually hate this term media backlash? What does that mean
in twenty twenty five? Honestly, like the newspapers, I don't
know one person that reads the newspaper beside my seventy
(11:07):
five year old mother. So it's like, who are social media?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Are we at the point where if you're a corporation
you still care about what the comments say on fucking Twitter,
I mean our Instagram? But maybe they do, and some
clearly care more than others, and they don't want to
deal with any of that shit, and when it goes wrong,
whichever way, it can become a major pain in the ass.
The shows this summer of ben excellent. I'm especially and
(11:33):
fascinated by the business and finances of the organizations and
how it impacts the play on the field. Question, do
you think the emergence of private equity investment is a
potential game changer? I see it as a vital lifeline
potentially for family owned organizations like the Bears and Cowboys,
big brands without a lot of cash on hand.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I think Jerry has a lot of cash on hand.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I can't speak for the Bears, but I wouldn't put
Jerry your career wrecked where they are still considered a
mom and pop shop. Right, it's family owned business, but
in terms of cash revenue. You know, like Walmart was
a family owned operation for a while that they were
printing cash like they were the number one company in
the world.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
You know, Bezos was leading the charge at Amazon early on.
I wouldn't call it a mom and pop operation, but
it was like his operation. So I put the Cowboys
in kind of a unique place. But like you said,
it's not like Jerry started Microsoft or has all these
other companies that generated in revenue like some of these
(12:36):
other people. Steve Balmer I saw on a podcast recently,
said that his dividends from Microsoft, obviously can change a
little bit on a yearly basis, have recently paid him
over a billion dollars a year just the dividends of
his stock. Think about that, So, you know, sometimes and
I'm guilty of that's like, oh, Bomber's got more money
than everyone else. When you hear that, you're like, Jesus,
(13:00):
how could So he's already purchased the team cash, right,
He's he already built the building, and then he just
has this side revenue stream of dividends. That's pretty fucking nuts.
I mean it, truly, that's pretty crazy. That's when he
said that, and you just really kind of started.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
To think about it.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You're like, God, the Clippers, no wonder Genie had to
sell because they're gonna get to a point. I just
saw Shay Gildess Alexander he's making seventy million dollars a year.
I think a big reason all these NBA owners sold,
granted they ten twenty x their money, because the expenses
were about to go and they are currently through the roof. Right,
(13:42):
you have three or four guys, multiple guys in your
team making fifty sixty seventy million dollars.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So you have three human.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Beings accounting for potentially one hundred and fifty million dollars
were in the NFL your salary cap even at once
against three hundred million dollars. It is a group of
fifty five guys, right, fifty three forty five whatever. The
number varies team to team because you got some injury guys.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You got whatever.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
But it is a larger group of players, so just
statistically you have a better chance of injuries and balancing
it out, and the money you get from TV always
pays for that. We're in the NBA, it's a little
more obviously they're making enough money to pay the players,
but it's a little clearly a little more fickle. So
I think why a lot of these NBA teams paid
or bought, You're sold out because the money was so huge,
(14:28):
same thing like you said with the NFL, because just
it just helps them breathe a little bit. I will
defend I'm always critical of rich people, like super rich people, right,
I'm not talking like guys worth a million dollars and
still counts the tip on a calculator, Like I get it.
But if you are worth five hundred million dollars and
(14:50):
you're like stiffing a weight or over a twenty dollars
tip or something like, you're a fucking loser, you know.
And we see some of these owners who are just
who are who are frugal to the max. It's like, guys,
your television revenue is paying you four hundred and fifty
million dollars a year. Your player salaries are two hundred
and seventy five million. You do the math. You are
(15:10):
guaranteed to win. You can't pay everyone, and you're building
enough money to even come close to not make it
a thirty percent guaranteed profit on just that television revenue alone.
Where like, I just think it makes people uncomfortable. And listen,
some of these guys also, they get leveraged, they make
(15:30):
other investments, Like I follow the Niners pretty closely and
they have invested heavily into international soccer. Well that's not cheap,
you know, Jerry. We just had a family friend who
was hanging out in Italy that just saw Jerry Jones's yacht, right.
I mean, I just was actually watching this yacht show
on Amazon Prime. I'm not really in to Like if
(15:53):
you're like, hey, John, you're with a billion dollars, would
you want a fifty million dollar yacht? My answer being no,
I don't really mess with the ocean. I like looking
at it, like having a cocktail on the beach looking
at it. Would not want to be on the ocean
with a yacht. But these yachts the show, Like, I mean,
these rich people are paying fifty to one hundred million
dollars for a yacht, and you start having some of
these expenses, and I think most human beings can't relate.
(16:14):
As you start making a little bit more money, your
lifestyle usually changes a little bit because you just you
just up sell yourself and a bunch of different things,
and all of a sudden, yeah, you might have gone
from fifty grand to one hundred grand, but over a
couple of years, like, I don't even feel like I
have any more money. Where you go from like one
hundred grand and then all of a sudden, five years
later you're making.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Two hundred grand.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
You're like, it's not like I feel a lot richer
because your expenses go up, and I do wonder the
private equity. My question is less about a cash influx.
It's like, Okay, I get six hundred million dollars or
eight hundred million dollars. Are you actually using that money
to fund these contracts or did you use that money
to just feel better about yourself?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Have money, I don't know, in.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Some sort of fun that pays you six seven percent,
where you can make a lot of I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
That to me is a million dollar question that truly
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Speaker 2 (18:50):
Audio uh stumbled upon Collins Feet a few years and
have been a fan ever since.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Thank you, Mike. While I love the hard cap in
the NFL, I think some flexibility would make the league better.
Imagine at the bottom five teams were allowed to go
twenty percent over the cap and six to ten were
allowed to go ten percent. Do you think it would
help shift franchises like the Panthers, Browns, Giants, Saints to.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Get out of the gutter. Let's use the Browns as
an example. Jimmy Haslam spent more actual cash than any
owner over the last I think four years. I think
in terms of actual cash, not like the salary cap
and like the cap hits. I'm saying actual cash. Two players.
I remember reading an athletic article I'm pretty sure was
(19:42):
over a billion dollars over the course of twenty one,
twenty two, twenty three and twenty four. No owner in
the NFL Jeffrey Luriy, Jerry Jones, who's not even that high.
The Niners, like the high paying teams, spent as much
as Jimmy Haslin. So just because there's a hard cap
doesn't mean that you can't give or cash. So Jimmy
Haslam has tried to do that and hasn't worked. David
(20:04):
Tepper could easily do that, and it just it hasn't worked.
Like you've got to get the coach. The reason the
Panthers have lost is not because they don't try or
because of like money reasons.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
It's because they've hired shitty coaches. Right, I mean, it's
just that simple. Now, this guy might be good, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But the reason the Browns have lost is they gave
two hundred and thirty million to Deshaun Watson. I've said
this before and I'll say it again because I think
it's as simple of a way as I've ever heard
summed up the NFL process from a front office team
building standpoint. Is how he said this a couple of
years ago during the draft, he said, every team is
(20:46):
allotted the same amount of cap space and the same
amount of draft picks. You just choose how you use it.
Every team gets a first through seventh round pick to start, right,
you get, depending on who leaves in free agency, get
comp picks, and every team two hundred and fifty million
dollars or whatever the salary cap is that you're to
build a roster. You choose how you want to allocate
(21:07):
those funds, and then if your owner is aggressive like
a Jimmy Haslam, like Jeffrey Lurie, you can cheat the system.
So I don't think it's necessary to do what you said,
but I hear you. I have a question regarding Kyle
I don't get the narrative of him being a great
head coach losing a record without Christian in playoff success
(21:30):
only with loaded rosters. He has a lot of influence
on the draft and resigning players. The Ayuk extension looks
really bad. His players frequently hold out. I can't see
these things happen frequently to guys like Harball Sea and
Peyton Pete Carroll. Hee got rid of Russ and rob
the Broncos when his value declined. Hat he had Russ
(21:53):
and he went to Gino and one basically everywhere. Why
has Shanahan talked as a great head coach? To me,
he looks like a great oc. He was a bit
over his skis as a head coach. Do you think
the Niners should opt for a change sooner than later?
You have to understand Kyle Shanahan took over one of
the worst teams I've ever seen since I've been watching
football as an adult for twenty five years. The forty
nine Ers were a fucking joke. Their roster was pitiful,
(22:17):
their culture was an embarrassment. Their team was unwatchable. Three
years later, they were up ten points with five minutes
ago in the Super Bowl in a roster that he
was in control of. So when you say a loaded roster,
he built the thing and from twenty nineteen goes to
the Super Bowl. Two years later he's in the NFC
Championship again. And the other thing where he gets credit
(22:38):
is like he's winning these playoff games with Jimmy Garoppolo
and Brock Pirty. He's not winning him with some great quarterback.
I think he's won eight playoff games. So whether your
roster's loaded, which he's in charge of, or not, you
get credit in the NFL for winning the games when
forty million people are watching. And I've been critical on Kyle,
but where I cannot be critical of him in the
(23:00):
biggest fucking games. And these are regular season games too,
late games, late season games against Seattle multiple times, a
big late season game against the Rams in twenty twenty one,
when the playoffs are on the line, when the number
one seeds on the line. His team has shown up
and kicked ass and came out victorious. He went on
the road and beat a Mike McCarthy twelve win team.
(23:22):
He went on the road and beat an Aaron Rodgers
MVP led team. Like you just get a lot of
credit for that. Like Kevin O'Connell, everyone blows him for
winning all these regular season games and then the playoff
games come and like Kyle, he doesn't have Patrick mahomes
or Joe Burrow, he loses.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I Like Kevin O'Connell, I.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Got nothing against him, but he is discussed like he's
Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay. Yet in the playoffs two
out of the last three years, he's had won all
these regular season games and gets worked. Sean McVeigh took
him to the woodshed, ben his ass over and took
him to Poundtown like he got embarrassed in that game.
(24:07):
Now you can say it is on the road. I
mean on the road for Sean McVay two fires they
had to displace the Arizona. That just hasn't happened to Kyle.
You want to get get on him for losing twice
Andy Reid and Sean mc and Patrick mahomes, okay, or
Sean McVay in the NFC Championship game with a ten
win team, okay. But Kyle's won a lot of playoff games,
(24:27):
a lot of playoff games, and even in.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
The Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
The two he's lost his team showed up ready to
play and took leads. So it's like I'm watching Kevin O'Connell.
Everyone's like, Oh, Kevin o' bill walsh, can can the
guy win one playoff game?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
One? One? You know, everyone's shitting on Mike McDaniel. Everyone's like, Oh,
this's Mike McDaniel. Look at that curly hair and those
fu fu glasses and his fifty thousand dollars. Watch. What's
what's different between Mike McDaniel and Kevin O'Connell.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Neither guy wins in the playoffs. Wins some regular seas
and games sexy offense. Again, I would take Kevin O'Connell
over Mike McDaniel. But I'm just being honest here. Let's
just let's call a spade a spade. Got you gotta
win some big games, So why give Matt Laford credit?
Went on the road a couple of years ago, beat
(25:18):
the hell out of the Cowboys. That's a big win.
You know, you get, you get? What's every playoff win worth?
I'd argue every playoff win, especially on the road, should
be like an extra year coaching the team. The forty
nine ers gonna get rid of Kyle Shanahan for who,
(25:39):
I mean, what would.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Their options be. Look at some of these guys that
get hired, and I.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Feel like I'm the most critical guy of Kyle, and
then with questions like this, I got to defend him.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Have you heard any one refer to the cold situation
as a curse? Hear me out on this one.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
We have had nothing but bad luck at quarterback positions,
as the fans boot Andrew Luck when his retirement was
leaked during the preseason. We have been decent at positions
but cannot get the quarterback right. I believe wholeheartedly the
Colts have bad luck.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
No pun intended. There have been a lot of curses
in sports. Would like to get your opinion. It's a
good question.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You could argue that God gave you Peyton Manning and
for however many years ninety eight. I guess you guys
sucked those couple of years in the nineties, but from
two thousand, for that decade, it was pretty sweet. I mean,
you were the second best team in the league basically
the entire time, behind the Patriots. You beat the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
To win your Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You went to another Super Bowl where I think if
you play that Super Bowl ten times. You probably win
it more than you lose it.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, you were on.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Basically Monday Night football. You were just a team that
really mattered. So yeah, I mean, are you cursed. I
don't know if you're like, curse the Bambino. But you
did cut Peyton Manning and then for the next three
years he went on to lead the best team.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
It was the right move. It was the right move.
Trading bab Ruth was not the right move, but you
did cut Peyton Manning. A couple more questions.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
When the o to thirteen Jets upset the nine to
four Rams in LA, the game ultimately dictated that Trevor
Lawrence went to the Jags and led the Jets to
taking Zach Wilson. Could you play a hypothetical scenario where
the Jets lose out and end up taking Lawrence with
the number one pick. Do you think the AFC landscape
has changed at all or is the effect minimal you
(27:42):
I'm a better Jets fan. It's a good question. I
think it'd be kind of similar. I guess the Jets
have had a better team than the Jags with Trevor
Lawrence in terms of like you guys, hit on some
good players. But I have a hard time seeing right.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I guess the domino effect would Aaron Rodgers would not
have been traded to the Jets. Maybe the Steelers just
trade for Aaron Rodgers right then, so maybe the domino
effect changes. Right there, there's Aaron Terry's eight Terry's achilles
for the Steelers. Do the jag draft Zach Wilson. To me,
(28:28):
the more interesting part is like the butterfly effect, the
domino effect of quarterbacks and the butterfly effect of Aaron Rodgers.
But I don't think we look at Trevor Lawrence and
the Jets like.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
You guys are some consistent nine to ten win team.
Good question though, Okay we'll end on this great work
on Colin. A bit of a long question for the mailbag.
I work in contracts and acquisitions. Successful guy.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Then, as someone who got into this work because I
always love the topic the process of contracts in professional sports,
I was wondering if you could share some insight into
that role in the NFL. You've mentioned contract negotiations before,
but how does one become a contract negotiator with the team?
Do you start as a scout, and work your way up.
(29:17):
Do you have to have a financial background or is
it done in house with GM. John Schneider mentioned his
involvement a few times and an agent representing the player
keep up the great work and success. Well, let's dive
into that because I wanted to welcome you to Chasing
Challenges brought to you by Microsoft.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
In the NFL.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is key
to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions,
simplified cloud and ADA management, and trustworthy responsible technology to
turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we will explore
some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL
and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're faced,
(30:00):
Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say bring it on.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
This week we've.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Discussed the challenge faced by all these contract negotiators. We
see holdouts. We see the Niners have dealt with a
lot of them. Obviously the Bengals are dealing with them.
I think most contract negotiators for a team, this guy
in charge of the salary cap tends to have a
(30:24):
law background or a finance background, usually the scout background.
When the guy gets into that is when he becomes
either the assistant.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
GM or the GM.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
John Schneider, I would say, became a household name evaluating players,
not negotiating contracts. When I worked for the Eagles, it
was unique because Howie had got his start and came
up on the contract side. So he had a law
degree and he worked his way up dealing with agents
(30:57):
and then got in on the scouting side and then
became the GM and merged the two. But I would
say most scouts, especially the ones I know Jason Light,
Spy Tech Veitch Am I Missing, Adam Peters, those type
guys got into the business college scouting pro scouting, you know,
(31:19):
helping with this guy's worth, trading this many picks, and
then I think, like you said, you learn that that
you start getting Hey, will you call this agent?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Will you deal with that? But in terms of the
language of a contract, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I talked to Jason Light about this a couple of
years ago at the at the draft or at the combine.
That you know, you kind of learn as a GM.
It's kind of like trial by fire, but you are
very dependent on the guy negotiating your money, Like for example,
the forty nine ers Peragemarate is like the York's money guy.
(31:56):
This guy's fucking genius. Known him for a while.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I haven't talked to him a long time, but he's
a extremely smart guy and he's really good with money,
and he for a long time negotiated the contracts, like
when Harbaugh was there and then with Kyle and John.
Now they have people under him.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
But like, obviously you're not going to negotiate a contract
if the head coach and the GM don't want it,
But like, are they negotiating every single kicker of a contract?
You have individuals whose job it is to get on
the phone maybe with Drew Rosenhouse or maybe want a
Dre Rosenhouse guy and just get the basic parameters of
(32:35):
what we're looking for and what they're looking for, and
then people write it up and then they get involved.
To me, most of the time with the bigger picture stuff, right,
Like was John Lynch when the party contract was being
negotiated on the phone every single day, you know, talking
the specific language of the coton no.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
And he's talked about this before he gets involved. When
it's like how can how can we get a deal done? Right?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
You're not like Marie's in real estate. She's not doing
every single detail of the contract.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Some of it's already written. A lot of these.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
NFL contracts, the parameters of a position is already set
in stone. You just push the envelope on one thing,
you relent on another thing, and then you kind of
find some middle ground. Right, So I think most guys,
and this is what's going on with Trey Hendrickson. You know,
that's a situation where everyone in the organization's involved. And
(33:34):
then there are situations like Micah Parsons where it's like
you kind of got an idea what the money's going
to be. That's one where Jerry can just either got
to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Right, But a lot of these contracts, you know, the.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
The rookie scale now is pretty easy. But you know,
if you're free agency can be you know, free agency
is a set like the free agency market. It is
not it's not a buyer's market because it's really really expensive.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
So they kind of got to you by the balls.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So they're you know, during that time, your negotiator is
on the phone and they're like, well, we got three
different offers, so you're offering six million, I got three
other offers that are close to nine. So it's like
you can be like, oh, you're bluffing, or like, see
you later. And that's where I think from a scouting perspective,
you kind of learn those skills and when you've done it,
(34:26):
you have a pretty good idea, but you have to
have a pretty good idea of the market of how
good the player is.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
So it's there.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Are a lot of I think more than ever. It
used to either just be the GM and was in
charge or the money guy was in charge. I think
there are more people with their hand in the cookie
jar on these deals than ever before because we're talking
I mean guards, you're making twenty million dollars a year.
So that's an excellent question, and it's you know, it's
a big challenge for these teams to you know, figure
(34:55):
out who's in charge of that and when do the
big decision get involved. So that's it for this week's
chasing challenges. Remember Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take
bold steps, make informed decisions, speaking new ideas.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
To help drive your business forward.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your
journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities.
Visit Microsoft dot com Slash Challengers to learn more. The
volume
The volume. What is up everybody? How are we doing?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I made a mistake where I did not bring a
piece of my traveling audio equipment. It's basically the thing
that holds everything together. It connects my mic, which is
like a mic that you know, a high level mic
that you would use in the studio, to my computer.
It's this contrapment called a H four zoom recorder, and
(00:43):
I left it on my desk, so I had to improvise.
I had limitations on what I could get immediately. I
had to go with a USB mic, which is horrendous.
So I apologize for the audio. Mike Malone, the old
Denver Nuggets, won a championship with jo With Joker, once
(01:04):
said when he was the King's head coach, he hated
when any player ever said my bad. He said, my
bad gets your ass kicked. He was still right, because
it's like when someone says my bad, like I dropped
the ball, my bad, you screw up at work?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
My bad?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
No shit, we know you did it. You know this
is my fault. But you don't need me to tell
you that because you can hear it. The audio quality
is not up to the three and out middle Cooff standards,
but I didn't have any other options. Somehow I'm staying
across the street from a target, and it might be
(01:39):
in that I haven't been to. I don't know fifty
targets in my life, in various states, in various places,
from Hawaii to Philly to the California. It's the worst
target I've ever seen in terms of electronic section. It
was a joke, so it didn't help me out much.
I didn't have time with Amazon, so this USB mic
is gonna have to work. So again, apologize. I'd say
(02:03):
my bad, but we don't say that in my family
because we know it's your bad.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I screwed up. So let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
We're gonna do a mail bag at John Middlecoff. At
John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those dms. Get
your questions answered here on this little old podcast. Happy
Fourth of July week. Hope you're having a good time.
Enjoy yourself. A nice pool, a nice lake, a nice ocean,
some cocktails, some beers, your family, some hot dogs. I mean,
is there anything better than a good hot dog? A
(02:31):
Bruski at like nine am on fourth of July. So
hopefully everyone's having a good week, a better week than
Malik Beasley.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I saw the dudes. The dudes was in debt over
his ass.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
He is obviously was in deep with gambling. If one
big Jay writes an article and blames anyone but Malik
Beasley in this situation, I just googled it before we
hopped on, you know, and people love blaming gambling. I've
been gambling for twenty years. He's made sixty million dollars.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
And he's twenty eight years old.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Like, I do not want to hear anything about any
from anyone blaming anyone but that guy, because it'd be
one thing. You know, Milik Beasley, young player, only made
a couple of million dollars, made some bad decisions.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
I'm like, listen, could it was twenty.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Three years old, I could have sixty million dollars in
career earnings and he was on pace to make another
fifty in this next contract. I'm sorry, bro, I don't
want to read one article on the Athletic about like
pointing the finger at someone else with that guy. But
before we dive into some football, god, it's just it's
(03:42):
it's head scratching. I do you tell you about my friends,
my partners, and the official ticketing app of this podcast,
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lowest prices guaranteed. Okay at John Middlecoff. Let's let's do
some mail. Bad questions at John Middlecoff. Mail bad questions
easy at John Middlecuff. Sebastian, just checking to see if
you saw this. Not sure if you answered this already,
(04:25):
but I'll add to it. Which quarterback would you have
called had you had just taken over the Raiders. I
think what he might be referring to is we had
on John Spidep, the GM of the Raiders, and he made, like,
I don't want to say an offhanded joke because he
was kind of serious, but he said people their job
(04:48):
might hit the floor, or maybe he'd be embarrassed to say,
maybe that's what it was.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Maybe he was like, I'd.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Be embarrassed to admit who we called in our pursuit
of quarterbacks. And then I kind of threw in the jab,
like you called Andy Reid about Mahomes and he said no.
But then I started thinking what quarterbacks could he have called?
That would have been pretty insane, right, Like would he
have called on Lamar Jackson, Probably pretty doubtful. Would he
(05:17):
have called on Josh Allen, Probably pretty doubtful. So I
think it's fair to say Mahomes Josh Lamar in their
own little category. I don't think you'd waste that call
if you were him, because you just know. Even if
you offered Max Crosby and seven first rounders, which I
actually think I think I read one time or I
heard on someone say that the max you can offer
(05:37):
us four, even though I think the most we've ever
seen is three, which is weird because you could offer
your entire draft, but you can only offer four first rounders.
Could be wrong on that because I don't think we're
ever going to see that, But I would imagine you
call on Joe Burrow. Cincinnati's a weird place. Now, I
think you have a good idea what they're going to say. No,
(05:58):
But I think that is the one elite quarterback in
which you would call and you're okay, obviously getting that.
You know you're probably gonna get a hell no, hang up.
But it's just that place is fucking weird. And once
upon a time Carson Palmer ended up on the Raiders
from the Cincinnati Bengals. So you just never say never.
Justin Herbert no chance because he's in the division. You
(06:20):
wouldn't make that call like CJ. Stroud, Jayden Daniels, probably not.
Then I think you start getting in the world of
like Brock Purdy, Dak Prescott, Jared Goff, you probably Kyler Murray,
kind of that kind of group. You know, Jalen Hurst
just won. You probably not calling him. But I would
(06:42):
imagine anywhere from six to like fifteen, you're calling on
an every one of.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Those guys and you end up with Geno Smith.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So I would call on all those guys, but I
think Burrows the one elite guy that you're just like, hey, why.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Don't we just place a call? What do we gotta lose?
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Mike Brown getting mad at me, who cares? Aaron Rodgers
on Aaron Rodgers. Do you think the sponsors like State
Farm knew he was weird? If they knew he was weird,
they would have given him the deals. I knew once
his immunization comment he was done being a double check guy.
(07:19):
I think he would have made less had he had
the endorsement money he made. I think he would have
made less than had he I'm not quite sure what
that means. You think he would have made less in
the NFL. My husband told me, don't bother on the
enigma waste of time and can't see him the same. Yeah,
(07:41):
I mean, I think culturally the time, it was a
very like if you said I would never get a
COVID vaccine in twenty twenty five, absolutely when no one
would give a shit and ninety percent of people would
be like yeah, anyone under like sixty like yeah, I'm
not letting that touch my body either in twenty twenty five,
But in twenty twenty, you know, it's all about the timing. Culturally,
(08:05):
the way he was on the forefront of that. It
was a very hot button issue at the time, and
only one message was allowed you know things think culturally
how different things are now right, I actually see a
lot of people going the opposite way. I'm not even
just talking about the immunization thing, but just in society,
(08:26):
what flies what doesn't fly, So a lot matters at
the point in time you're at, right and everything in
twenty twenty, twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Honestly, I didn't even notice. I mean, it's clear he
hasn't been on these.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Whatever commercials in a while, but in terms of at
that time when they dropped him, he was just getting
crushed and it was for like, I'm in agreement, it
was over the COVID stuff, But.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I don't think.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I just think it was a time in a place
and it was such a hot button issue and he
was the most famous guy in the NFL. Do you
know this that like Sean Payton, Kyle Shanahan, Gruden, Andy Reid,
there was like six or seven of them that kept
getting fined. Sean Payton and Kyle Shanahan were getting fined
(09:21):
constantly for not wearing the masks and pulling it down
all the time, and they refused to pay. They never paid,
and somehow like they told Gruden because Gruden ended up
cutting the league like one hundred thousand dollars check, and
Sean Payton told him on a phone call, like, you're
fucking nuts. They'd have to come to Chase Bank and
fight me over that money. So it's like it's not
(09:44):
like anyone took away Sean Payton's juice or earning power.
I mean, he had a movie made about him, So
I don't know, I think some of that stuff stupid.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And listen, you like.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Your marketing power for Aaron Rodgers, he probably cashed.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
In pretty big time, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Now if you're these corporations like they like things pretty
cookie cutter, right, and when they're gonna pay you a
lot of money, they need you to buy into whatever
they're doing. And State Farm doesn't want controversy regardless, Like politically,
who knows what the people running their campaign politically think
or care. They might be completely aligned, but they don't
(10:25):
want to have to deal with that. So it's just
I don't want to deal with anything. I want everything
as straight as possible. Like Patrick Mahomes pretty easy corporate
partner Josh Allen Lamar Jackson. It's like they're just not
that controversial. They just don't say anything which you could
say is kind of fake in the sense that they
(10:45):
actually have beliefs. There are things that if they said,
would make major headlines, but for them, it's just not
worth it. And where I would defend them is like,
why do you want to deal with the And I
actually hate this term media backlash? What does that mean
in twenty twenty five? Honestly, like the newspapers, I don't
know one person that reads the newspaper beside my seventy
(11:07):
five year old mother. So it's like, who are social media?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
You know?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Are we at the point where if you're a corporation
you still care about what the comments say on fucking Twitter,
I mean our Instagram? But maybe they do, and some
clearly care more than others, and they don't want to
deal with any of that shit, and when it goes wrong,
whichever way, it can become a major pain in the ass.
The shows this summer of ben excellent. I'm especially and
(11:33):
fascinated by the business and finances of the organizations and
how it impacts the play on the field. Question, do
you think the emergence of private equity investment is a
potential game changer? I see it as a vital lifeline
potentially for family owned organizations like the Bears and Cowboys,
big brands without a lot of cash on hand.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I think Jerry has a lot of cash on hand.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I can't speak for the Bears, but I wouldn't put
Jerry your career wrecked where they are still considered a
mom and pop shop. Right, it's family owned business, but
in terms of cash revenue. You know, like Walmart was
a family owned operation for a while that they were
printing cash like they were the number one company in
the world.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
You know, Bezos was leading the charge at Amazon early on.
I wouldn't call it a mom and pop operation, but
it was like his operation. So I put the Cowboys
in kind of a unique place. But like you said,
it's not like Jerry started Microsoft or has all these
other companies that generated in revenue like some of these
(12:36):
other people. Steve Balmer I saw on a podcast recently,
said that his dividends from Microsoft, obviously can change a
little bit on a yearly basis, have recently paid him
over a billion dollars a year just the dividends of
his stock. Think about that, So, you know, sometimes and
I'm guilty of that's like, oh, Bomber's got more money
than everyone else. When you hear that, you're like, Jesus,
(13:00):
how could So he's already purchased the team cash, right,
He's he already built the building, and then he just
has this side revenue stream of dividends. That's pretty fucking nuts.
I mean it, truly, that's pretty crazy. That's when he
said that, and you just really kind of started.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
To think about it.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You're like, God, the Clippers, no wonder Genie had to
sell because they're gonna get to a point. I just
saw Shay Gildess Alexander he's making seventy million dollars a year.
I think a big reason all these NBA owners sold,
granted they ten twenty x their money, because the expenses
were about to go and they are currently through the roof. Right,
(13:42):
you have three or four guys, multiple guys in your
team making fifty sixty seventy million dollars.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
So you have three human.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Beings accounting for potentially one hundred and fifty million dollars
were in the NFL your salary cap even at once
against three hundred million dollars. It is a group of
fifty five guys, right, fifty three forty five whatever. The
number varies team to team because you got some injury guys.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
You got whatever.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
But it is a larger group of players, so just
statistically you have a better chance of injuries and balancing
it out, and the money you get from TV always
pays for that. We're in the NBA, it's a little
more obviously they're making enough money to pay the players,
but it's a little clearly a little more fickle. So
I think why a lot of these NBA teams paid
or bought, You're sold out because the money was so huge,
(14:28):
same thing like you said with the NFL, because just
it just helps them breathe a little bit. I will
defend I'm always critical of rich people, like super rich people, right,
I'm not talking like guys worth a million dollars and
still counts the tip on a calculator, Like I get it.
But if you are worth five hundred million dollars and
(14:50):
you're like stiffing a weight or over a twenty dollars
tip or something like, you're a fucking loser, you know.
And we see some of these owners who are just
who are who are frugal to the max. It's like, guys,
your television revenue is paying you four hundred and fifty
million dollars a year. Your player salaries are two hundred
and seventy five million. You do the math. You are
(15:10):
guaranteed to win. You can't pay everyone, and you're building
enough money to even come close to not make it
a thirty percent guaranteed profit on just that television revenue alone.
Where like, I just think it makes people uncomfortable. And listen,
some of these guys also, they get leveraged, they make
(15:30):
other investments, Like I follow the Niners pretty closely and
they have invested heavily into international soccer. Well that's not cheap,
you know, Jerry. We just had a family friend who
was hanging out in Italy that just saw Jerry Jones's yacht, right.
I mean, I just was actually watching this yacht show
on Amazon Prime. I'm not really in to Like if
(15:53):
you're like, hey, John, you're with a billion dollars, would
you want a fifty million dollar yacht? My answer being no,
I don't really mess with the ocean. I like looking
at it, like having a cocktail on the beach looking
at it. Would not want to be on the ocean
with a yacht. But these yachts the show, Like, I mean,
these rich people are paying fifty to one hundred million
dollars for a yacht, and you start having some of
these expenses, and I think most human beings can't relate.
(16:14):
As you start making a little bit more money, your
lifestyle usually changes a little bit because you just you
just up sell yourself and a bunch of different things,
and all of a sudden, yeah, you might have gone
from fifty grand to one hundred grand, but over a
couple of years, like, I don't even feel like I
have any more money. Where you go from like one
hundred grand and then all of a sudden, five years
later you're making.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Two hundred grand.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
You're like, it's not like I feel a lot richer
because your expenses go up, and I do wonder the
private equity. My question is less about a cash influx.
It's like, Okay, I get six hundred million dollars or
eight hundred million dollars. Are you actually using that money
to fund these contracts or did you use that money
to just feel better about yourself?
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Have money, I don't know, in.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
Some sort of fun that pays you six seven percent,
where you can make a lot of I don't know.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
That to me is a million dollar question that truly
only these owners would know and would talk about. Pro
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Speaker 2 (18:50):
Audio uh stumbled upon Collins Feet a few years and
have been a fan ever since.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Thank you, Mike. While I love the hard cap in
the NFL, I think some flexibility would make the league better.
Imagine at the bottom five teams were allowed to go
twenty percent over the cap and six to ten were
allowed to go ten percent. Do you think it would
help shift franchises like the Panthers, Browns, Giants, Saints to.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Get out of the gutter. Let's use the Browns as
an example. Jimmy Haslam spent more actual cash than any
owner over the last I think four years. I think
in terms of actual cash, not like the salary cap
and like the cap hits. I'm saying actual cash. Two players.
I remember reading an athletic article I'm pretty sure was
(19:42):
over a billion dollars over the course of twenty one,
twenty two, twenty three and twenty four. No owner in
the NFL Jeffrey Luriy, Jerry Jones, who's not even that high.
The Niners, like the high paying teams, spent as much
as Jimmy Haslin. So just because there's a hard cap
doesn't mean that you can't give or cash. So Jimmy
Haslam has tried to do that and hasn't worked. David
(20:04):
Tepper could easily do that, and it just it hasn't worked.
Like you've got to get the coach. The reason the
Panthers have lost is not because they don't try or
because of like money reasons.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
It's because they've hired shitty coaches. Right, I mean, it's
just that simple. Now, this guy might be good, we'll see.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
But the reason the Browns have lost is they gave
two hundred and thirty million to Deshaun Watson. I've said
this before and I'll say it again because I think
it's as simple of a way as I've ever heard
summed up the NFL process from a front office team
building standpoint. Is how he said this a couple of
years ago during the draft, he said, every team is
(20:46):
allotted the same amount of cap space and the same
amount of draft picks. You just choose how you use it.
Every team gets a first through seventh round pick to start, right,
you get, depending on who leaves in free agency, get
comp picks, and every team two hundred and fifty million
dollars or whatever the salary cap is that you're to
build a roster. You choose how you want to allocate
(21:07):
those funds, and then if your owner is aggressive like
a Jimmy Haslam, like Jeffrey Lurie, you can cheat the system.
So I don't think it's necessary to do what you said,
but I hear you. I have a question regarding Kyle
I don't get the narrative of him being a great
head coach losing a record without Christian in playoff success
(21:30):
only with loaded rosters. He has a lot of influence
on the draft and resigning players. The Ayuk extension looks
really bad. His players frequently hold out. I can't see
these things happen frequently to guys like Harball Sea and
Peyton Pete Carroll. Hee got rid of Russ and rob
the Broncos when his value declined. Hat he had Russ
(21:53):
and he went to Gino and one basically everywhere. Why
has Shanahan talked as a great head coach? To me,
he looks like a great oc. He was a bit
over his skis as a head coach. Do you think
the Niners should opt for a change sooner than later?
You have to understand Kyle Shanahan took over one of
the worst teams I've ever seen since I've been watching
football as an adult for twenty five years. The forty
nine Ers were a fucking joke. Their roster was pitiful,
(22:17):
their culture was an embarrassment. Their team was unwatchable. Three
years later, they were up ten points with five minutes
ago in the Super Bowl in a roster that he
was in control of. So when you say a loaded roster,
he built the thing and from twenty nineteen goes to
the Super Bowl. Two years later he's in the NFC
Championship again. And the other thing where he gets credit
(22:38):
is like he's winning these playoff games with Jimmy Garoppolo
and Brock Pirty. He's not winning him with some great quarterback.
I think he's won eight playoff games. So whether your
roster's loaded, which he's in charge of, or not, you
get credit in the NFL for winning the games when
forty million people are watching. And I've been critical on Kyle,
but where I cannot be critical of him in the
(23:00):
biggest fucking games. And these are regular season games too,
late games, late season games against Seattle multiple times, a
big late season game against the Rams in twenty twenty one,
when the playoffs are on the line, when the number
one seeds on the line. His team has shown up
and kicked ass and came out victorious. He went on
the road and beat a Mike McCarthy twelve win team.
(23:22):
He went on the road and beat an Aaron Rodgers
MVP led team. Like you just get a lot of
credit for that. Like Kevin O'Connell, everyone blows him for
winning all these regular season games and then the playoff
games come and like Kyle, he doesn't have Patrick mahomes
or Joe Burrow, he loses.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I Like Kevin O'Connell, I.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Got nothing against him, but he is discussed like he's
Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay. Yet in the playoffs two
out of the last three years, he's had won all
these regular season games and gets worked. Sean McVeigh took
him to the woodshed, ben his ass over and took
him to Poundtown like he got embarrassed in that game.
(24:07):
Now you can say it is on the road. I
mean on the road for Sean McVay two fires they
had to displace the Arizona. That just hasn't happened to Kyle.
You want to get get on him for losing twice
Andy Reid and Sean mc and Patrick mahomes, okay, or
Sean McVay in the NFC Championship game with a ten
win team, okay. But Kyle's won a lot of playoff games,
(24:27):
a lot of playoff games, and even in.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
The Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
The two he's lost his team showed up ready to
play and took leads. So it's like I'm watching Kevin O'Connell.
Everyone's like, Oh, Kevin o' bill walsh, can can the
guy win one playoff game?
Speaker 1 (24:42):
One? One? You know, everyone's shitting on Mike McDaniel. Everyone's like, Oh,
this's Mike McDaniel. Look at that curly hair and those
fu fu glasses and his fifty thousand dollars. Watch. What's
what's different between Mike McDaniel and Kevin O'Connell.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Neither guy wins in the playoffs. Wins some regular seas
and games sexy offense. Again, I would take Kevin O'Connell
over Mike McDaniel. But I'm just being honest here. Let's
just let's call a spade a spade. Got you gotta
win some big games, So why give Matt Laford credit?
Went on the road a couple of years ago, beat
(25:18):
the hell out of the Cowboys. That's a big win.
You know, you get, you get? What's every playoff win worth?
I'd argue every playoff win, especially on the road, should
be like an extra year coaching the team. The forty
nine ers gonna get rid of Kyle Shanahan for who,
(25:39):
I mean, what would.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Their options be. Look at some of these guys that
get hired, and I.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Feel like I'm the most critical guy of Kyle, and
then with questions like this, I got to defend him.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Have you heard any one refer to the cold situation
as a curse? Hear me out on this one.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
We have had nothing but bad luck at quarterback positions,
as the fans boot Andrew Luck when his retirement was
leaked during the preseason. We have been decent at positions
but cannot get the quarterback right. I believe wholeheartedly the
Colts have bad luck.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
No pun intended. There have been a lot of curses
in sports. Would like to get your opinion. It's a
good question.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
You could argue that God gave you Peyton Manning and
for however many years ninety eight. I guess you guys
sucked those couple of years in the nineties, but from
two thousand, for that decade, it was pretty sweet. I mean,
you were the second best team in the league basically
the entire time, behind the Patriots. You beat the Patriots.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
To win your Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You went to another Super Bowl where I think if
you play that Super Bowl ten times. You probably win
it more than you lose it.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah, you were on.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Basically Monday Night football. You were just a team that
really mattered. So yeah, I mean, are you cursed. I
don't know if you're like, curse the Bambino. But you
did cut Peyton Manning and then for the next three
years he went on to lead the best team.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
It was the right move. It was the right move.
Trading bab Ruth was not the right move, but you
did cut Peyton Manning. A couple more questions.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
When the o to thirteen Jets upset the nine to
four Rams in LA, the game ultimately dictated that Trevor
Lawrence went to the Jags and led the Jets to
taking Zach Wilson. Could you play a hypothetical scenario where
the Jets lose out and end up taking Lawrence with
the number one pick. Do you think the AFC landscape
has changed at all or is the effect minimal you
(27:42):
I'm a better Jets fan. It's a good question. I
think it'd be kind of similar. I guess the Jets
have had a better team than the Jags with Trevor
Lawrence in terms of like you guys, hit on some
good players. But I have a hard time seeing right.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
I guess the domino effect would Aaron Rodgers would not
have been traded to the Jets. Maybe the Steelers just
trade for Aaron Rodgers right then, so maybe the domino
effect changes. Right there, there's Aaron Terry's eight Terry's achilles
for the Steelers. Do the jag draft Zach Wilson. To me,
(28:28):
the more interesting part is like the butterfly effect, the
domino effect of quarterbacks and the butterfly effect of Aaron Rodgers.
But I don't think we look at Trevor Lawrence and
the Jets like.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
You guys are some consistent nine to ten win team.
Good question though, Okay we'll end on this great work
on Colin. A bit of a long question for the mailbag.
I work in contracts and acquisitions. Successful guy.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Then, as someone who got into this work because I
always love the topic the process of contracts in professional sports,
I was wondering if you could share some insight into
that role in the NFL. You've mentioned contract negotiations before,
but how does one become a contract negotiator with the team?
Do you start as a scout, and work your way up.
(29:17):
Do you have to have a financial background or is
it done in house with GM. John Schneider mentioned his
involvement a few times and an agent representing the player
keep up the great work and success. Well, let's dive
into that because I wanted to welcome you to Chasing
Challenges brought to you by Microsoft.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
In the NFL.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Just like in the business world, overcoming obstacles is key
to success. Microsoft empowers business decision makers with AI solutions,
simplified cloud and ADA management, and trustworthy responsible technology to
turn challenges into opportunities. In this segment, we will explore
some of the biggest challenges being faced in the NFL
and how they can be overcome. Whatever challenge you're faced,
(30:00):
Microsoft empowers you with the expertise to say bring it on.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
This week we've.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Discussed the challenge faced by all these contract negotiators. We
see holdouts. We see the Niners have dealt with a
lot of them. Obviously the Bengals are dealing with them.
I think most contract negotiators for a team, this guy
in charge of the salary cap tends to have a
(30:24):
law background or a finance background, usually the scout background.
When the guy gets into that is when he becomes
either the assistant.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
GM or the GM.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
John Schneider, I would say, became a household name evaluating players,
not negotiating contracts. When I worked for the Eagles, it
was unique because Howie had got his start and came
up on the contract side. So he had a law
degree and he worked his way up dealing with agents
(30:57):
and then got in on the scouting side and then
became the GM and merged the two. But I would
say most scouts, especially the ones I know Jason Light,
Spy Tech Veitch Am I Missing, Adam Peters, those type
guys got into the business college scouting pro scouting, you know,
(31:19):
helping with this guy's worth, trading this many picks, and
then I think, like you said, you learn that that
you start getting Hey, will you call this agent?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Will you deal with that? But in terms of the
language of a contract, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I talked to Jason Light about this a couple of
years ago at the at the draft or at the combine.
That you know, you kind of learn as a GM.
It's kind of like trial by fire, but you are
very dependent on the guy negotiating your money, Like for example,
the forty nine ers Peragemarate is like the York's money guy.
(31:56):
This guy's fucking genius. Known him for a while.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
I haven't talked to him a long time, but he's
a extremely smart guy and he's really good with money,
and he for a long time negotiated the contracts, like
when Harbaugh was there and then with Kyle and John.
Now they have people under him.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
But like, obviously you're not going to negotiate a contract
if the head coach and the GM don't want it,
But like, are they negotiating every single kicker of a contract?
You have individuals whose job it is to get on
the phone maybe with Drew Rosenhouse or maybe want a
Dre Rosenhouse guy and just get the basic parameters of
(32:35):
what we're looking for and what they're looking for, and
then people write it up and then they get involved.
To me, most of the time with the bigger picture stuff, right,
Like was John Lynch when the party contract was being
negotiated on the phone every single day, you know, talking
the specific language of the coton no.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
And he's talked about this before he gets involved. When
it's like how can how can we get a deal done? Right?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
You're not like Marie's in real estate. She's not doing
every single detail of the contract.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Some of it's already written. A lot of these.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
NFL contracts, the parameters of a position is already set
in stone. You just push the envelope on one thing,
you relent on another thing, and then you kind of
find some middle ground. Right, So I think most guys,
and this is what's going on with Trey Hendrickson. You know,
that's a situation where everyone in the organization's involved. And
(33:34):
then there are situations like Micah Parsons where it's like
you kind of got an idea what the money's going
to be. That's one where Jerry can just either got
to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Right, But a lot of these contracts, you know, the.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
The rookie scale now is pretty easy. But you know,
if you're free agency can be you know, free agency
is a set like the free agency market. It is
not it's not a buyer's market because it's really really expensive.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
So they kind of got to you by the balls.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
So they're you know, during that time, your negotiator is
on the phone and they're like, well, we got three
different offers, so you're offering six million, I got three
other offers that are close to nine. So it's like
you can be like, oh, you're bluffing, or like, see
you later. And that's where I think from a scouting perspective,
you kind of learn those skills and when you've done it,
(34:26):
you have a pretty good idea, but you have to
have a pretty good idea of the market of how
good the player is.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
So it's there.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Are a lot of I think more than ever. It
used to either just be the GM and was in
charge or the money guy was in charge. I think
there are more people with their hand in the cookie
jar on these deals than ever before because we're talking
I mean guards, you're making twenty million dollars a year.
So that's an excellent question, and it's you know, it's
a big challenge for these teams to you know, figure
(34:55):
out who's in charge of that and when do the
big decision get involved. So that's it for this week's
chasing challenges. Remember Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take
bold steps, make informed decisions, speaking new ideas.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
To help drive your business forward.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
With Microsoft as your trusted partner, you can navigate your
journey with confidence, finding innovative solutions and reaching new possibilities.
Visit Microsoft dot com Slash Challengers to learn more. The
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Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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