3 & Out - Best of - Darrick Yray, Dak doesn't do it for the money, Bears are doing Hard Knocks - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (01:52):
Okay, little weekend podcast John Middlecalf three and out podcasts.
That'd be me, That'd be the show. These a little
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hear today. I had on Derek Ray, who is the

(02:15):
general manager of Florida State Football, so he works hand
in hand with Mike Norvel, and we discussed the program.
The draft picks a little bit everything. So I've known
Derek for a long time and we will talk with
Derek as well as Dak Prescott. Does he play for

(02:36):
the money? Does anyone play for the money at their core?
Some guys I don't know, so we'll discuss that as
well as the Bears, who now will be on Hard
Knocks Kayleb Williams, Ryan Poles, Ebraflus. Hard Knocks HBO only
a couple months away, so we'll dive into all those
topics and subscribe to the Three and Out podcast as

(02:59):
well as on YouTube because all of our content is
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(03:19):
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Honored to be joined by a guy I once knew
when he was a little old student assistant, and now
he was just named the Football Scoop Personnel Director of

(04:44):
the year. He is the Florida State General Manager. Last
week he played golf at Michael Jordan's country club. Well,
there's about fifteen members. I don't even know how he
got in the gates, but he did, and he saw Michael,
He saw Ken, Griffy, Derek Ray.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
What is up, Brood? You having me on? It's funny,
you know, full circle. We've known each other for what
fifteen plus years now?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Long time. I think you were in my roommate early on.
Weren't you traveled two thousand.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
And eight, We shared some we shared roommates, you know together,
we got some stories.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Probably differs UCLA. Now you're just saying now you're just
playing Grove twenty three.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, thankfully I know they're right people and cover up
smoking mirrors.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
How long have you had this job?

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Going into my third season? So it got hired and
officially February of twenty twenty two, and probably one of
my better decisions in my life to take this opportunity
and grateful for it.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Okay, we'll go into the job. But you told me
something right before we hopped on that this was a
was an anniversary for you and the program. Can you
go into that.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, just. I mean, I remember a year ago at
this time, Keyon Coleman gave us the news that he
was going to commit, and happy he did that obviously
took part and that went exactly how we planned.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
So the transfer portal, you know, Keon, is that Michigan
State when a guy obviously there are I mean you
know the exact number, I mean, a ton of names
in there. There's a guy like him? Is there a
certain level of guy that's just on a different level
in the competition. I how did that materialize when he

(06:26):
went in? Did you ed Norvel already recruited him? Like,
how did that play out?

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah, there was a little bit of a pre existing
relationship from when he came out in high school. Keon
actually came out his during the COVID year. So his
very first official visit that he took was when he
went in the transfer portal, which was too Florida State.
He went into the last week and he came down
in an official visit here and you know, sitting down
initially with him, I was like, well, this guy is
like smart and it's no surprise everything of how he

(06:51):
is right now, because that's how he is twenty four
to seven, Like that's not an act. He's authentic as
what you see. And he is a great, great young man.
I think what most people don't about him, like he's
you know, he was twenty years old last year when
he played a senior year, or I'd excuse me, not
a senior year, but his last year in college. And
so he's young, and I truly believe he's just scratching
the surface. But you know his is dominant, like the

(07:12):
comparable that I would have John as a guy we
probably spent time around and like he reminds me very
similar in the red zone threat? Is that how DeVante
was when at Fresno.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
I mean that first game he played for you guys
against LSU there happened to be a lot of people watching.
Didn't he score three testdowns?

Speaker 1 (07:28):
It did? And you know, playing LSU was one of
his requirements. And you know a lot of people, you
know the narratives around nil and transferport, Oh you just
buy kids, and it's you know, Keyon was very specific
and what he was looking for. He said, I want
to go somewhere that you know has a veteran proven quarterback.
I was like, okay, good, we checked that box. We
had Jordan Travis, and you know, I want to go
somewhere where I'm not the only featured weapon. It was like, well, great,

(07:50):
we have Johnny Wilson, we have Trey Benson, we'd had
Jaheen Bell's transferring from South Carolina, Kyle Morlock from Shorter,
obviously Jordan that quarterback, and cut a bunch of other
pieces around, and he goes, I want to go somewhere
that's playing LSU as like, well, perfect, we have them
game one. So I mean we're three for three. We're
off to a good start in this thing, you.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Know, speaking, I want to dive into your career because
I get asked a lot by people that want it
on football, and obviously the timing in twenty twenty four
is a lot different than like when me and you
got in the landscape has completely changed. I mean, hell,
your role didn't really even exist anywhere in college football.
It's it's become much more prevalent. When you say, the
last five six years at programs, how long Florida State

(08:29):
had a GM to are you the first official GM?

Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yes, sir, And they created this this position and then
I was lucky enough to be selected to fill it.
So it didn't exist, you know, two and a half
years ago.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
So there's a lot of conversation. I'm sure you hear
about it and read about it at the NIL you
don't specific are you allowed to talk about money when
a prospect of sitting in your office here with the coach?
How does that is that? A? Is that a weird
situation for you? Specifically?

Speaker 1 (08:54):
It is? And the rules are ever changing. We're allowed to,
I guess now be aware of certain kind conversations, but
there's you know, you're still not allowed to provide an inducement. Luckily,
we have a strong collective with the battles end that
is there is founded you know, by a group of
individuals that have done an outstanding job and I think
more important than just you know, actively going out and

(09:15):
what you're finding, it's huge in roster attention and so
that's where coach Hornvell has done a phenomenal job of
really retaining the right guys, identifying the right talent. Because
it's one thing to put an investment into someone who
might be coming in the portal high school, junior college,
but once you've identified who that person is, you want
to make sure they stick around in your roster, so
you have multiple years with them.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Is there a number and you guys won't mess with
with a high school guy that is different with recruiting
a key on Coleman level player or is it? How
does that work?

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I don't think it's necessarily a number that's something that
we won't mess with. I think it comes down to
fit and so really not to put it, you know,
this much of a to where it's just simplified. But
if money is the main reason that someone's making a decision,
there's a good chance they're not going to fit here
at Florida State. But we want to be competitive in
all aspects. You know, from academically, how they're you know,

(10:01):
how they're going to be improved and that structure that's
in place that we provide, but also you know the
support factors that are in place and how they can
grow you know, socially, you know, and also then athletically
when you look at it, and so the facilities have
to have a check right the gear, the equipment, the
weight room, all that stuff's the same forty five pounds
weights are you know they're going to weigh forty five
pounds no matter how shiny and bright they are, But

(10:23):
it all matters because now the comparable, especially the area
where we're around. It's how do we have to be
different than you know, what's within our state, but also
it's within the five hundred mile radius around.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Us, because let's face it, you're recruiting against in your
conference directly Miami Clemson and then obviously Georgia, Bama, LSU, Texas,
Oklahoma is that and even Ohio State, I'm sure, and
schools like that are coming down. So it's it's the
list of all the top seven or eight programs, right,
I mean, is that who you view as your direct
competition you're recruiting.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Absolutely, And I mean if you're going to recruit the best,
you're going to go against the best. And everyone has
a little different avenue of how they do that. But
you know, we try to be authentic to who we are.
And also there's so much to showcase at this great university.
I mean, you can have a top twenty institution education
and get a diploma from here. You can live a
true college lifestyle here. You know, you're a professional sports
team in the capital city of Tallahassee, Florida, And I

(11:17):
mean there's eighty thousand they're gonna be raining down on
you a dope, and you know, when you get to
go out and see that War Champ play, it's a
pretty cool thing.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah, it's pretty badass. You know. I get so many
young people listening to this podcast and ask for advice,
and I think your story is pretty remarkable. I kind
of want you just to tell it because when I

(11:45):
met you, you were you a freshman or were you
a sophomore? President State sophomore? So you're from Lynden, California,
where Aaron Judge.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Is from, correct next door neighbors grow up.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, so it's the Valley's a small world, and you
come to Fresno State, kind of go from there. How
you ended up the GM fifteen years later at Florida State.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Just knew I wanted to do something, and you know,
I just try. I wanted to be involved in the
next thing that I could, and just I knew I
wanted to do that from the time that I was
very very young, and I moved on and you know,
just tried to work as hard as I could and
try to soak it in. And luckily I had a
lot of great people around me to help guide me
and shape me, and you know, thankful, I mean even
as much like you had as much of an impact
on me when I was younger and you were a

(12:29):
GA as you know a lot of people did. And
you know, there was times where I was probably not
acting the right way that I should have been. And
we always have those times when you're younger, you think
you know it all and I really knew nothing. But
there are so many great people that were good to me,
and you know, Pat Hill, Drew Hill, dougnass Meyer, John Baxter,
Tim Skipper, I mean yourself, Like you know, list goes
on and on and you look back at those experiences

(12:50):
and people providing that service to you, like just so
thankful for the impact they had, or in my career
to steer me that way.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
When you graduate Fresno State, you worked for the program
the whole time. Pat was he fired when you were there.
Talk to me about so when you first became a
full time employee and kind of how that led to
Oregon State.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah, so Pat, Pat ended up getting let go and
then Tim de Rueger got hired and went going through
the transition and you know, hey, there was you know,
you can't coach on the field, you know, we're not
sure we're gonna have a spot, and kind of worked
my way and just proved it. Then our DFO at
the time left, and then I got to prove being
a DFO for you know, a month and a half

(13:29):
at I think twenty one years old, and just kind
of worked my way from there, and that turned into hey,
you know, we're not going to give you this job,
but you know we want to keep you full time.
And so at that point I was like, hey, it's
not nine hundred dollars a month anymore, it's twenty thousand
dollars a year. All right, I'm rich.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, made it.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
You know, we spend a little few more dollars at
Jimbo's and doghouse heck yeah. So you know, just kind
of worked up from there. Got ended up getting another
raise after after that, and actually interviewed with another institution
with Gary Andrew and ended up not mutually working out.
And then he took the job at Oregon State and
he called me and said, hey, you know, how much

(14:07):
do you want to make? I was like, okay, well
this is simple in my mind, like can you pay
me double? So yeah, I'll see you on the plane.
Enjoy Hawaii. We're at the Hawaii Ball at the time,
and went up to Oregon State and got started as
the assistant director of player personnel and kind of worked
my way up to the director recruiting operations to.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
What number do you think you could have got? Looking back, Yeah,
what you asked for?

Speaker 1 (14:25):
Yeah, I don't know if I could have gotten that much,
but that was probably the right number. You know, double
fed that time, was like, hey, I want to go
to fifty thousand, and went up there, signed onseen at
corp of Allie and I remember driving up and you know,
you get through I know you're from northern California too,
and you get to the Oregon mort You're like, all right,
I'm almost here, and then GPS still said four more hours,
like what the hell like and so but there's some

(14:45):
great times, great people, and you know, even Gary like
he had a huge impact on my career. Vince Genta
was the mutual connection there and a big part of
that as well. And you know, I just when I
talked to young people too, it's just you need a
few breaks early, and so when you get those few,
your first couple of breaks, it's like, hey, you know,
let's go and you know, once you hit that roulette
wheel and you guys have some things in motion. But

(15:07):
at the end of the day that I do believe
you get what you get in the short term, you
get what you deserve.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
In the long term. I think Gary Leaves and you know,
you know this much better than me. I've talked to
him before. You know, they bring in a former quarterback
Oregon State who is just let's face as, he's a
shooting star. I mean, he's an absolute stud in Jonathan Smith.
Are you nervous? You know sometimes with their transitional period,
how that works out and then your guys relationship from there,

(15:31):
how that grew.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, absolutely, you know and knew of you know Smitty
and you know he's coming in and he's done phenomenal
things and he's going to continue to do phenomenal things
over in Michigan State. He came in and I remember
looking with people like counting off the plane, all right,
who's this guy, who's this guy? Who's this guy? Like,
because you would never know, like when you're going through that, like,
you know, are you gonna have a spot and you

(15:54):
know it kind of went through a month and a
half try out or felt that long when he.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
Got what was your job what was your job title
at the time.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Was the director of recruiting operations at that time. And
then he came in and still kept that role, ended
up getting retained and as he called it, re hired
or hired like that was the choice. And that staff was,
you know, as phenomenal. There are so many great people
on that staff and you know kind of working through there.
First year was twenty eighteen with him, and you know,

(16:21):
game one we opened up at Ohio State and so
we didn't quite have the roster at that time. Back
was ended up. We scored thirty plus points in that game,
first first drive of the game, you know, Chase Young
and I think I think they had one of the
Bosa brothers too, that they sandwiched our quarterback and he
got out with a concussion and we were down to
the second string and you know, he was put up

(16:42):
thirty points. We just allowed seventy, so you know, but
it was good. And then we go through twenty eighteen
and the nineteen and transitioned and you know, we ended
up barely missing the bowl game. We had a huge
back and forth game over the Washington State. You were
down by two well and end up going up by
two and then they go down and score. You know, oh,

(17:03):
there's two different point swings in the last four minutes
of that game. Go down to Oregon, loose to them,
don't make a Bowl. Twenty twenty is the COVID year
and making strides in twenty twenty one, you know, in
between that time and get promoted to be the director
player personnel and we make our bowl game and go
play in the LA Bowl and Sofi Stadium and play

(17:24):
Utah State, and you know, once some games one bit,
you know, one down at the coliseum, which at that
time for Oregon State was the first time I think
they had one down there since like nineteen sixty or
something like that. And I remember that one of the
cooler moments I had with Smithie is, you know, we're
sitting there and he pulls down his mic and they're
lighting the torch in the coliseum and he's like, hey man,
this is pretty cool. Look at this, like, you know,

(17:45):
it was almost four hundred yards rushing, Like it's a
pretty good feeling being from California doing this in the coliseum.
I was like, that's a pretty good take it.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
In moment, Yeah, so then your experience that with Pat Hill,
I would imagine getting with Jonathan Smith. Kind of similar guys.
You know, Jonathan's younger but old school, tough guy, loves
running the ball. How much did that help working with him?
Because you watch those teams, I see a lot of similarities,
especially like when we were young, some of the early

(18:14):
two thousand Pat Hill teams. I mean it's he's kind
of a throwback. I mean he's got a little Harboll
brother to him, Pat Hill. I mean Harball's and Pat
Hill are buddies. He feels of that world. So that
that was probably a pretty easy transition knowing what he wanted.
That's what you're used to looking.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
For Coach Smith, you know, being there, And obviously luckily
I had some mutual friends that knew him and were
able to speak for me. I mean, Doug Nusmeyer was
someone who called him for me and just said, hey,
like you have this guy. And first interaction I had
with him was, hey, you know I talked to Nuts
last night. He told me he said great things about you.
I was like, okay, so well those good things. You
always need people on your corner. I mean, we all

(18:51):
know that it's people business, and that's why I try
never to burn a bridge if you can help it.
But had a great experience in my time in Corvallis,
and you know, it's just when this opportunity presented itself,
it became something and clear to me that it was
not something I could turn down to you know, go
to Tallahassee and Florida State.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
How does that play out? Obviously we read about like
head coaches, you know, the agents and stuff. But when
Mike Norvel and Florida State are interested in you, how
does that materially? Do you get a phone call or
a text? Does it go through the head coach? How
does that play out?

Speaker 1 (19:24):
Yeah, there was a couple different So you know, there
was a few mutual friends that we had on staff.
So Marcus Woodson, who was on staff at that point,
you know, him and I had worked together at Fresno State.
And then there's another there's a West Coast scout that
I had known and you know, keep his name out
of this one, but he had kind of asked me.
He goes, hey, they might have this opening year and
they're creating a general manager role, and I think he'd

(19:45):
be perfect for it. He goes I know you've met
Coach Norvell before, but you know, would you be interested.
In the beginning, I was happy. I was like, you know,
I have to hear more about it, but you know,
and then you start thinking, it's you know, Florida state
and all those things, and what it's going to present.
I I'd never been at that time when that first
interest phone call happened, I'd never been to the state
of Florida, and so we just so happened to be

(20:06):
going the next week. We were visiting a young man
down in Tampa, and so till the time that I
stepped foot in Tallahassee, I'd only been in the state
of Florida for about eighteen hours or so. That's it.
Never been to Tallahassee before. And you know, the hardest
thing about it was, I was riding around with Coach
Smith and you know, Mike Marvels call him man, you know,
it's on Apple car Play, and it's like, hey, what's

(20:26):
going on there? You're balancing that and both were understanding.
And I've never been the type to try to leverage
situations in that. I've never believed in it that way.
Just trying to be honest and upfront and looking for
the fit. The fit was there, and so there was
a couple of face times and there was a couple
of different phone calls that took place, but there was
never an interview, really an a formal interview. Coach Schnorbell

(20:48):
was really the only person that I discussed with besides
Bruce Warwick, and it was an easier process and it
ended up getting hired luckily, and came out here the
day after signing to in February and landing in tallhass
him like, Oh, there's not as many palm trees as
I expected there to be.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
So I've never been there, but I don't think palm
trees when I think Tallassey. You'd obviously, you know, you
had told me before you had turned down other pretty
prominent jobs when you were at Oregon State, So you
don't know this guy, you know a little bit like
Jonathan Smith, clearly a big you know, trajectory's pointing at

(21:25):
the sky. But besides, just how'd you ultimately make the decision?
Is it just black and I can't turn down Florida
State or oh, I've.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Tried to never make a decision off of money or
the logo or the play or a place really and
you know, I think you looked at kind of the
landscape of college football and what it was becoming, and
you know, trying to align yourself with the university who
is going to be in those conversations, you know, studying
the roster of what they were going to have, but
also understanding the person that you were going to go
work for and have the pleasure to serve with. You know,

(21:55):
I can't say enough great things about coach Morvelle and
the things that he's done in Tallahassee in his time
here and even before. But the man, the character, the integrity,
and the leadership that he provides on a daily basis, Like,
there's just not a better person that I would want,
you know, to do that with. And you know, the
vision that was aligned of what we're trying to create.

(22:15):
Our athletic director had just been hired the month before
I got here. You know, you or spend the time
with the Dallas Cowboys, with USC with Alabama and knowing
what that looks like. The investment that was going to
get continue to pour in. They're just getting ready to
hire a new president, the new facility that will be
opened here in twenty twenty five, our new stadium that's
going to be done in twenty twenty five. We're putting

(22:35):
four hundred million dollars of investment in facilities just for
football in the next eighteen months. That are all happening
right you know, behind me and in front of me
right now, as I look at my office and so
you look at all those things align and you're like, hey,
then you look at the history of Florida State and
the vision of everything that was getting sold, and you're like,
this thing is like too good to turn down. I

(22:55):
don't know how many more of these opportunities I'm going
to have and took a chance. So far, so good.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
Yeah, I'd say, so you get hired, what's the first task?
I mean just immediately going to the bunker with coach
and trying to figure out or do you kind of
have a good idea because you get hired after the
recruiting When you get.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
Hired, yeah, I got hired after it, got hired earlier
before the recruiting period closed. Obviously kept it quieter before
until that broke. You know, first task was really just
to listen and understand. And I've never been a believe
a believer in just coming in and let's make wholesale
changes on everything, because it was clear like there was
a lot of great things that were already happening. There's

(23:35):
so many great people involved here. There's so many great
people doing the right way. But so I wanted to
come down and I wanted to sit down with everyone
and just hear everyone's words and you know, thoughts on
how things were going to be going. Hey, what are
a couple of ideas of what can improve? Tell me
things that I need to know that I don't know,
you know, we're just different things and slight tweaks. And
so my plan when I sat down with Coach was saying,

(23:55):
you know, I'm just gonna kind of listen for the
first couple of weeks. Then we're going to slowly implement
in different changes and things of what I think need
to be addressed and changed, and then you know, six
months from then, hopefully it's unrecognizable and we'll make a
couple couple different weeks. And so we did that, and
you know, the staff that we had in place that
was already existing, and the staff that we brought in,

(24:16):
you know, John Garrett and Justin Krause, arrived at the
same time with me working on our offense and defensive scouts.
John's now at Duke as the general manager and JC
is still here. Both of those guys have a high
NFL experience, you know. John, you know, had coaching in
the NFL being a prior head coach, and obviously he
had spent some time in Corvallis as well. So just
kind of implementing different things and changes and structures in place.

(24:39):
And you know, recruiting is just how recruiting comes down
to communication in my opinion, and personnel and talent evaluation
is how can you get all parties to be on
the same page to where everything has you know, the
same heartbeat and everything is pumping too the same organs
of what you needed to go to. And so if
you have a coaching staff as an arm and your
recruiting staff as an arm and your personnel's staff as

(24:59):
a leg, you need to make sure that bloods getting
pumped to the proper places. And so a centralized location
for all information to be accessible for all and making
sure language was a force multiplier of having everyone in
the same evail terminology, you know, the same ranking system,
the same keys of what we're looking for those player
profiles of exactly what ideally we want them to look

(25:20):
like when they we're recruiting them that also look like
when they're their senior year. And you know, just doing
some numbers and being analytic, analytically based, because sometimes you
do go win with a bias, right, but the numbers,
you know, numbers don't lie, but people do, right, and
people tweak those numbers, and you know, what do the
numbers say? Do I feel that same way? But can
I do a study that might actually confirm or disprove

(25:41):
what I feel already and try to take as much
bias out? And how can I be an asset and
making sure that coach has the best information that he
can make the best decisions for Florida State in the program?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
So what does a GM do?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, I got to ask that question A lot a
lot of people have. Man, he got a great job.
You know, just sit there and watch film and the
whole I'm like, I wish that was the case. You know.
The simple way to put it is, you know, making
sure that we retain and we have the best roster
every single every single Saturday that we go out there,
and so constantly improve in the roster. Any way that
we can improve that, you know, daily, and a couple

(26:16):
of different ways. That's done in development, that that's done
in talent acquisition, but that's also done in retention as well.
And so I think, like when you look at it,
there's so many people involved. You know, as it comes
to recruiting, it's not just acquisition, it's how you're marketing yourself, right,
It's the customer service that you're providing. And our recruiting
operation staff does a phenomenal job of making sure that

(26:38):
the experience when someone comes on campus is a first
clap class experience from the time they step foot to
the time they leave. Visits Now, especially official visits, it's
like an all inclusive vacation and it needs to be
that way. And so if you and I decided, hey,
let's go down to the Bahamas, we're going to feel
a certain type of way. If we go to the concierge
desk and we're not greeted with a smile, well that's it.
And you need to be on point every single time

(27:00):
when someone's coming on campus because it needs to be
serviced with a smile. And so there's a lot of
intricacies that do go into that, But the oversight is
something I have the responsibility to have every single day
of that and making sure we're providing that experience.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
How many people we have working for you?

Speaker 1 (27:16):
We have nineteen full time people and the recruiting personnel
or scouting staff, and then we have about sixty student
interns and then about fifteen fifteen content folks.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
You know what's funny is I tell people all the
time the biggest benefit I had was cal Pauly, which
was really tiny, and when we were at Fresnel State
wasn't much bigger. And you hear like me, and you're
a great example, right, you immediately got to do a
lot as a nineteen year old. How difficult is this

(27:47):
like the Hunger Games with these guys? Because I would
imagine a lot of these students on campus aspire to
have a role like you did or do what I
ended up doing. How do you? It was just me
and you? Right? How do you? That's got to be tough?
I mean are you managing that group? I mean is
there infighting?

Speaker 1 (28:06):
You know?

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Because just the competition, it's like it's like a separate team.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
And the way the games change, like you need all
those folks, and you know, even our students, the amount
that they sacrifice, they choose. Hey, I'm I'm going to
give up my whole game day so I can put
Florida State in a better position to recruit someone. And
I mean when you think about a game day here
in Tallahassee, like game day is a big event obviously
the sides of the football game and everything else that
goes into a heau.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, well, if you had twenty people doing it, how
many applicants do you have for those jobs?

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Last year? So last year we had five hundred people
that apply to Jamie Jesus and it's it's it's a
volunteer job too, and so there's five hundred people that
wanted experience, and you know, and you win obviously people
want to be a part of things. And because early
I think the first time when we opened this back up,
when I've gotten in here, we only had about ten
to twelve student interns, and I said, okay, we need

(28:55):
to we need to open this up and create just
to move people and provide the best experience we can.
And I think at that time we had thirty applicants.
And so just getting a word and you know, speaking
at different classes and advertising that there's forty four thousand
students that go to Florida State. You know there's people
big school and be involved, and so how can you
showcase that and making sure that you're providing an experience.

(29:17):
But also, you know, I tell them all the time,
I want them to grow and be better versions of
everyone around to where hopefully they can learn from some
of my prior mistakes that I've made and you know,
things I wish I would have done better when I
was growing up and younger, and you know, here like
I'm an open book and try to be a resource
as much as I can. But I think that, you know,
I'm thankful for those individuals that do sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
That time when we were at Fresno State, when I
was there with you, it might have changed when de
Ruder came in. The coaches would go out in the
spring and this as well before the transfer portal so
separate that would bring back you group of guys that
would fit, you know, the Fresno State level. For then
Coach Hill myself true whatever to watch can kind of

(30:00):
whittle down In the NFL, the scouting department watches the
guys and then whittles it down for the coaching staff.
How is that? Where are you guys on that, Like,
your coaches are out spring recruiting. Are they bringing you
back guys or have you already given them guys to
go see? Obviously your program is a little unique. You're

(30:21):
not looking at everybody. How does that play out?

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, it's a little it's a good question. It's a
little bit of both. You know, the majority of those
times that they're going out to see someone, So the
spring period's changed now they're allowed to have contact with
the you know, with the juniors, so they're allowed to
sit down at the school and have actual face to
face contact with them, which back then you couldn't do.
This is the first year they're allowing that.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
A guy who's a sophomore now going into his junior year,
or junior is going into a senior year.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Junior who's going into a senior year. Okay, And so
that's a lot of time we're spent there. But also
the evaluation in the spring moments, and you know, if
there's someone that we're not aware of, obviously that's good
that they're coming back with the But then we've done
a poor job on our side of making sure our
coaches have the best tools to utilize, you know, through
their resources. But it can happen a couple of different ways,

(31:09):
and there's a lot of you know, it's not the
days of now with huddle and social media. It's hard
to find a diamond in the rough because chances are
he's been watched and evaluated by someone. That does happen.
But I think the area that we recruit, you know,
it's there's a lot of people that go through, so
there's not many secrets that are left out there.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
What's the kid's name who was distrafted by the Saints
at Oregon State?

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Tal the ESA Fuaga.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
So when you're at Oregon State, probably a lot of
similarities to Fresno State. You kind of have to see
the bigger picture, like a lot of those guys aren't
getting recruited by you know, programs like Florida State. Now
in your role, like would you even did you watch
him in high school?

Speaker 1 (31:47):
So tall? The essay he was when he was actually
he came out in the class. He was the COVID year,
he was from Mount Tahoma, He had a lot he
had the majority of the packed twelve and.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
A lot of so he was a relatively bigger recruit,
but like, would you guys at Florida State, because you're
just kind of recruiting the cream of the crop, Like
how do you balance of like, well, we might have
something here, but he doesn't have Alabama LSU? Like do
you guys even concern because that was a famous Sabin thing,
Like he wasn't as concerned like if he liked the
guy Atmari Cooper, I don't give a shit that LSU

(32:18):
and George and Florida don't like I've taken him. How
does the balance of like, well, is this guy quite
good enough? Or like this our type guy?

Speaker 1 (32:25):
We're gonna star evaluation and trust our own eyes and
not We're not going to have lean on anyone else
to confirm of what we see. And that's one thing
our coaching staff and coach mornvald Doe a phenomenal job
of just trusting our own opinions. You know, coach coach
actually talks about this all the time. You're no one
is allowed in the evaluation process to bring up a
kid's stars. And so when you know, if you talk

(32:45):
to coach about it, eating said, well, he's a forcer
I don't want to hear it, I don't care like
and so we're going to trust our own evaluation in
the sense of making sure that we're getting the right
fit for Florida State. And so uh, in all these cases, specifically,
he'd probably be someone that we would have watched just
because he would have met the parameters we're looking for
as far as size it goes, and that offensive tackle

(33:05):
and defensive end and pass rusher, quarterback and those three
you'd probably go anywhere in the country to go get
and we'll go anywhere in the country to go get anyone,
but those three specifically are so unique that you're willing
to travel and you're always looking.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Before we dive into the recent draft class, just on
Mike Norvel, Obviously you guys had a rough end of
the season with getting left out and Jordan's injury, but
pretty clear you had what ten guys drafted. Your team
was I mean, defensively it was on another level, and
bringing in key On, I mean, you guys were pretty elite.

(33:42):
And clearly he's i mean talked about immediately as the
Alabama replacement when Nick retires. So what's your experience, what's
your thoughts on coach novel. I know what you've told me. Personally,
you think he's as good of a play caller as
do you think humanly possible.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Standing first of all, outstanding personally and the person before
the coach, like you know, the humility, the leadership, all
the qualities that he has, you know, just to serve
others and be around and him and I have gotten
the ability to be pretty close now, you know, I
think the world of him as a person, as a father,

(34:17):
as a husband. But also you know, on top of that,
like he's one heck of a football coach too, you know,
the ability to motivate the energy and if you ever
come to one of our practices, he never stops running.
I mean he's running the whole time, races the D
line before every single practice. I mean, he is one.
But just the ability to instill confidence and the culture
that he's out layd of Florida State. You know, it's

(34:40):
something that I'm excited about the future and wants to.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Come safe to say, practices of Florida State aren't exactly
a country club when the pads come on.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
No sir, no sir. But besides maybe the weather in October,
you know, when it's eighty degrees or the high seventies.
There's nothing country club about this our twenty four period practices.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Okay, let's really quick, just hit on some of your
top guys. Verse was already there when you got there.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Correct, Jared came in and he transferred into January of
twenty twenty two.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Are you the pro liaison four four to Saint Kewan
Ratliffe is?

Speaker 1 (35:21):
But I do have some involvement with the with the
NFL staff that does come in.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
I'd imagine you know a lot of those guys and
they come to you. Okay, Jared, Verse stories pretty well
established transfers from Albany former tight end, correct puts on
a bunch of weight, ends up going to the to
the LA Rams. What's your scattered report on a pretty
dominant pass rusher for you?

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Jared for outstanding person work, ethic, high motor plays in
with high high intensity, mounted powerful and as best of
a bowl Russian I've seen in person time is what
he does as one arm one arm stuff, two armed stuff.
He can bowl and overpower you. You know, I'm excited
to see what his career is going to unfold. Who

(36:04):
play in the league for a long, long time.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Was he on the fence about coming out two years ago.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
He was on the fence about coming out last year,
you know, and just made the decision to you know,
he loved Florida State and who he got to do
it with. And I think a big part of that was,
you know, there's a core group of guys that decided, hey,
we want to come back after leading into the Bowl game,
just felt that twenty twenty two could have got gone
a little bit differently, and they wanted to chase something
and collectively go into an approach and you know, come

(36:30):
and plug some pieces in and you know, also you know,
go go acquire some different tw and see what happened
in twenty twenty three. And you know they did they
did that on the field.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
So well, this guy's taking the internet by storm. Keon
Coleman clearly quite the character. I mean, obviously one of
the more sought after I mean, what would you say
one of the more sought after guys in last year's
transfer portal was on everyone's radar. I talked to in
the NFL coming out of Michigan State and then the
way that started that game against LSU, and then it

(37:01):
was on it's kind of crazy. As the season went on,
it feels like you got dinged for speed. It's funny
you bring up Davante also a little bit of a
ding on him. I'd say that's worked out pretty well.
Uh just what are your thoughts on just his game
and kind of where he needs to go. Is that
a fair assessment just separation stuff or just he's a
young he's twenty years old.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Yeah, I mean he can separate now. And I think
with key On too, like last year was really his
first year that he had a full offseason training because
he was a basketball player in Michigan State too. I
mean talking to Tom Izzo and those guys, they said
he was going to start his junior year versus sophomore year.
So and you know, you always wonder, okay, you're a
basketball player. You see the high school highlights, and you

(37:42):
know it's coming up. Today's the year anniversary. He told
us that, you know, he was going to come to
Florida State and made a public the next day. But
his first event was Memorial Day coach Morvel's house, and
he reports and he's in skinny jeans, and you know,
I think it's well documented in what happened. But you
know there's coach has a basketball who out in front
of his house and Keon goes out there and skinny jeans,

(38:03):
no warm up and three sixty windmills of dunk and
I'm like, oh boy, we got one. And but the
person in the athleticism, that's one thing. Like how smart
he is and how he studies the game. And you know,
the first conversation we had on his official visit, he's
talking about it's like, okay, ke On, like what happens
if we don't throw you the ball? And goes, well,
you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna ranch the dB and

(38:25):
I'm gonna knock him over. He's got family in the
stands too. And that was his answer. Like he he is,
study knows it like the back of his hand, understands
concepts like it's so so smart of how he understands
the game. I just I truly believe he just scratch
the surface.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Well, when's the last time, Josh, I mean, in his
NFL career hasn't had a guy like this. They've had
more speed guys. Hey, there there is a guy I
once heard of that pounded the table for a quarterback
coming out of junior college and wanted him at Fresno State.
But you know, according to that person, the coaches wouldn't
listen to him. Is that Is that a true story
out there in the world.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
We all have misses in Hindsight's twenty twenty. I guess
not missus, but yeah, I did. The Josh was an
interesting story. And obviously high school, he came to camps
all the time from Fireball, and then when when he
transferred to the junior college, he ended up sprouting up
and became his current size. And I remember going up
to Oregon State like, oh, there's two guys and he
was one of them, and we already had a quarterback

(39:22):
committed at that time, and so oh for two there's
a guy on staff that went to Wyoming. He remembered
the conversations while we got Fresno and that's how he
ended up getting brought up to Wyoming.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I'm sure, you guys, I'm sure. And Recruiting retweeted this
and had it all over your guys social The video
of the Rams with First running up the stairs and
McVeigh handing him the phone and Braden Fisk just basically
breaking down is probably the coolest video of the entire draft.
Talk to me about him. I guess I wasn't on

(39:54):
him as much you've described him to me offline. Just
your thoughts on him as a play and obviously as
a person. Seemed like a pretty high level dude.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Together getting ready to go over to an event that
we had to do, and we remember sitting I remember
sitting there and I'm like, gosh, I hope they captured
that moment. And I hope that you know, Verth got
on the phone and all of it, because just the
reaction of what it would have been. And then we
got to Texas said, hey, Verse, actually they wanted him
originally to make the call, the very first call from
the RAMS, and he didn't get there because of traffic
and you know, just to be a fly on the

(40:27):
wall and what that is. But Braiden, Braiden came in.
You know, he gets in the portal coming out of
coming out and he he had to have shoulder surgery.
And so that was the very first conversation and coach
just to let you know, I'm gonna have to have
shoulder surgery. Still want to come down, and you know,
we battled there. So other schools involved with him and
he had a lot of great options and brought him
down here. So his first practice that we actually got

(40:49):
to see him do anything was the fall camp and
so you can all see the athleticism what it was
on tape and whether it's going to be. But the
very first fall practice, he goes up to Jay and
he goes, hey, it's you and I had never seen
group like I'm gonna I'm gonna be faster than you.
I'm gonna have more sack, all of it. And so,
you know, he got to the point and he had
some goals written up throughout the year and he was

(41:09):
getting frustrated too, and you know, not that it was
affecting him, but you know, he wanted so many sacks
and so many TFLs, and you know, he had good
years and he had he just didn't have the production
to necessarily show for it. And so we're through eight
games and I think he only had half half for
a TfL. That was it. Well, in the next four
he absolutely goes on a tear, and the ACC Championship

(41:31):
goes on a tear. And you know, he works his
tail off and the effort that he plays with and
you know, he's his knock obviously. Oh hey, he has
short arms, but that's not turn on the tape and
that fifty five was everywhere.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah, it feels like as a Niner guy. I mean,
those two guys at a level of physicality and toughness
that you can't replace with Aaron Donald. But it's pretty
clear they knew what they were looking for. And I
know they a lot of people like you can't trade
up to get fists, But like you said, when you
pair him with his buddy, I don't know. I think
I'd be shocked if these two guys aren't pretty good
for the Rams, won't you.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
I got a potional on that call, and it was
just so cool to see my brother and those guys
were together for a year, and I mean that's it.
They were together for a year. That's all they spent together,
and that was the reaction. So I mean it speaks
to the culture of what coach Morvell's built.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
Okay, the forty nine ers at the end of the
second round took Ronardo Green, who I think it's safe
to say as a defensive player, his tape against Neighbors
in Week one, just in an individual game, is probably
as good as any and your experience about him, tell
me about the guy and the player.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Yeah, doesn't. I mean he's he's such he's so even
keeled as a corner. I mean, there's no panic in
his game. He's consistent in his technique. You know, can run,
can play press man, and I think you look at
our defense, you know ninety percent of the time we're
going to play pressman or some version of it, and
you know that ends up helping those guys. And so
you had him and you know Jerry and Jerry Jones

(43:00):
playing playing nickel for us and then ventral cypress on
the other side, and you know the two corners that
we have this year are going to be really really
good as well. But Ernardo is so impressed with you know,
the growth that he showed and everything, and you never
had to worry about, right, And it's just like, hey,
you know that he's going to be out there and
he's going to make more plays than he gives up,
and sometimes he might not give up anything.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Watching just some highlights of him, he seems like a
pretty tough corner like he ain't afraid, No, he.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Will stick it in there. He'll be physical, He's not
afraid of much. And you know, another great, great young man.
So happy for him, and I'm excited that he gets
to go out to the left coast now Trey Benson, Yeah, awesome.
You know Trey going to Arizona. You know, was at
a Oregon originally transferred at a catastrophic knee injury where

(43:48):
he did everything. But you know, he got here in
twenty twenty two, transferred in from Oregon. You know, he's
the first person in Florida State history, against Boston College
in twenty two to run for a touchdown and return
a kick for a touchdown in the same game. And
you think of all the great history and of all
the great players in Florida State, he was the first
person in history to do that. You know, how he
carries himself, how professional he is, and just the time

(44:09):
that he spends. And you know he's run he's a
bigger back. He runs physical, but he's got true top
end speed. I mean there's four different times last year
he's hitting twenty one plus miles an hour in our GPS.
I mean, he's he's got all of it. So I'm
excited for him, and it'll be fun to watch him
play against Braden Fisk and Jared Versus at least twice.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Here, Hey went on from a draft standpoint, Jordan Travis,
who you know that the injury was obviously sucked. I mean,
if you like football, even if you're not a Florida
State fan, that was awful. Obviously his medical must be
going pretty well to get drafted. Just he when was
healthy last year, you guys were, I mean, let's face it,

(44:50):
a national title contender and then he goes down. What
just what's your thoughts on Jordan Trouse before him?

Speaker 1 (44:57):
And you know, I think you know Jeordan you look
at the type leader he is and the type of person.
You know, the quarterback stuff speaks for itself, but you
know the ability that he has to extend plays, to
create plays when something's not there, but also you know,
pushing the fall fall down field. And you know, I
think he's only he again is only probably scratching the
surface too and what he's going to be. But you know,
spoke to him a couple of days ago and just

(45:19):
his recovery of what that's going to be, and they
expect him to kind of be cleared for fall camp.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
How long did the the final four? That video went
pretty viral of your players in my How long did
that linger? Just in the program?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Yeah, I mean it was hard for it to linger.
I mean I look back in December and coaching. I
talk about this often. That was probably one of the
more challenging times that I've been a part of, just
in anything in life. So we get back from the
a SEC Championship. I think I got back to my
house at four thirty in the morning, and so we're
in the selection show at eleven am eleven thirty the

(45:58):
next day. Yeah, and you have no insights, contrary to
what people think, like, no one knows what's going to happen,
there's no tips, there's no hey, at least one person
in your an athletic department knows. No one knows. And
so that was truly the live and row reaction. Well,
coach and I had to be out on the plane
We're going out recruiting, and I traveled with him when
we go out recruiting. We were out on the plane,

(46:19):
you know, three hours later from that. And so just
for our team to have that, and we had five
coaches that were on the road that had left Charlotte
and stayed overnight that were going to different locations because
we're right in the middle of a contact period as well.
And there's one of our coaches who had landed and
you know, he just saw and didn't think anything of it,
didn't really know the semi final locations, and he's like, oh, okay,
we're playing Georgia and didn't realize. Still someone at the

(46:41):
rental car attendant man Florida State you all got you know,
that's messed up. He's like, what are you talking about?
We're playing Georgia and then he looks down and that's
how he found out. And so there's different ways that
found out. I just feel so bad for our players
and the opportunity that you know, should have been there.
But you know, that is history, and that was in
twenty twenty three. We're on the twenty twenty four now
for sure.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
How many GMS travel with their coach? Why can you do?

Speaker 1 (47:04):
But I think a few guys do. I think the
amount of conversations that that happen, it's important in the
amount of ever changing roster. But there's also a lot
of trust and the confidence that we have in our
office here to make sure everything's run right. But you know,
the the ever changing roster and being able to be there.
That does save a lot of phone calls.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
How often you guys run into like Kirby Smart or
link if It or Nick Saban or these guys. Do
you guys cross paths a lot? Or is it pretty
not very often?

Speaker 1 (47:28):
Because when I go out on the road, I'm not
allowed to go win anywhere. So I just sit in
the car and you know, turn on the turn on
the internet, or answer different calls or checking with our
coaches just to make sure I can provide those updates.
And you know, there's a couple of times you do
cross some people, but not not very often. And we didn't.
We didn't very much last year.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Okay, looking at the draft, you lost a lot, you know,
two defensive linement high your star receiver, your quarterback, you're
running back, you're starting two corners. You're going to be
a five team. Is it easier to transition now with
the transfer portal? Obviously you bring in DJ Is that
I am saying that?

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Right?

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Who ungay?

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Who? Well close, we'll get you there.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
So talk to me about the transition. Expectations are going
to be high, playoffs expand, so that's we can breathe
a little easier, you would have you would have been
in Uh, how did you Let's start with the quarterback.
How do you you need a quarterback? How'd you pick him?
How does that transpire?

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Yeah, looking for the fit and obviously our quarterback room.
You know, brock Lynn, you know, played playing a few
games for us last year, started the a SEC Championship,
started the bowl game against Georgia, and played in some
other games. And you know, just where we were age
wise and everything, We're always going to take the best
fit in what made the most sense for us to do.
We had another young man that decided to transfer out,

(48:53):
and so there was a need there in our quarterback room.
And you know, the more and more we got involved
with dj, the more we liked what we saw and
just the ability for for what he is and being
able to push the ball downfield and you know, match
up with the receivers that we had coming in or
that were we were actively going to get. You know,
I'm just excited of what he is as a player,

(49:14):
and you know, just being out there for spring and
you know, he can push the ball, he can make
off the throws, he's athletic, he can extend. I mean
he he's got as strong as an arm as I've
as I've been around, and I mean that's all the
quarterbacks that we've been around, and so I think he's
just I'm excited to see him in this offense, that's
for sure.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
I mean it's safe to say. I mean, you could
argue Florida State has been as successful as any of
these last couple years in the transfer portal, right, and then.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
That's you know, coach coach Norton starts and stops the
coach Nortvelle. I mean, he does an outstanding job evaluating.
But just talent is one thing, but fit is a
whole another, and just getting the right fit is important
for us.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Do you automatically look at a guy or does he
have to reach out to you? Like if I'm a transfer,
if I'm a starter at Fresno State and you know
nothing about me, whether or I'm good or bad, I'm
just a starter. It's Florida State looking at him? Or
does there does it have to be powerful? How does
that play out? Because there's every names to get thrown
in there.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
We have a couple different processes and there's a lot
of there's many people that are involved and making sure
we're always evaluating what's around us, what's in our conference.
Maybe someone we had a previous relationship with, or someone
who you know might be Hey, we've heard whispers that
they're looking to go into the portal. So there's an
evaluation in database, much like the NFL was in your time. Right,
there's a there's a per side, and there's a college side.

(50:29):
For us, there's a high school side, and there's a
there's a college side.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Is that easy to manage for you now or still
a lot?

Speaker 1 (50:35):
There's great people that I get to work with every
single day that that do make it easy.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
What do you got to do the rest of the spring? Now,
you guys done?

Speaker 1 (50:42):
Yeah, we're getting ready. We got official visits coming up
in the month of June. We got high school camps
in the month of June. So we got some other
guys that are coming by and getting ready for everything
that the month of June does present.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
You better have a smile on your face when they
show up. Absolutely well, good luck, Derek, And who knows,
maybe next time I talk to you, you're a national champion.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, well, one game at a time. Right now, we
open up at Georgia Tech in Ireland in August and
looking forward to that event.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
You're going to Ireland to open it up.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Yeah, we get to go to Ireland.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
That's pretty cool. Well, I mean safe to say you
made the right decision at Florida State. Congrats on all
your success. Man, it's been really really cool to watch,
and I watch all your games now and follow you
guys program closely. So keep crushing it, bro, You're an inspiration.
I'm sure to a lot of people listening to this
that want to get involved in football. And there's never
been a better time because all these opportunities in college

(51:36):
that didn't exist ten years ago. Now you've got the
NFL and college football, and obviously there's just more college
football teams. So it's you're crushing, bro. Keep it rolling.
You know, when most of us first start playing sports,

(51:59):
Little league, pop warners, you name it, hockey, soccer, whatever.
Like any little kid, you emulate the stars on television.
When I was a kid in little league, everyone had
a batting stance that was like Ken Griffey Junior. I
personally batted like Jay Buhner. Didn't even know it was

(52:20):
going to be bald at the time. Didn't work. I
was terrible at baseball or in basketball. You tried to
be like Michael Jordan or Penny Hardaway or whoever the
cool players were in the mid nineties, and it's no
different now. You emulate the stars on television. It's why
Steph Curry and basketball everyone shooting threes. If you were

(52:41):
a golfer in the early two thousands, you wanted to
be just like Tiger Woods, but you wanted to play
like them. You didn't think about like, oh, this guy
makes all this money, because that's not usually how little
kids think. Even through junior high and high school, you
just wanted to emulate the best players because it was
fun playing sports. You're playing with your buddies. You may

(53:04):
be good, you may not be good. It's just enjoyable.
You truly are playing for the love of the game.
And that is basically how every athlete starts playing for free.
It's just enjoyable, and if you're good at it, colleges
start recruiting you. You can go play Division one college sports.

(53:27):
It's even that much more enjoyable now in this modern
time with nil money starts immediately. But in my era,
and honestly previously to like three four years ago, it
was just like, I'm really good at sports. I want
to keep playing. I enjoy this. So I think most
athletes at the professional level all have the same baseline.

(53:51):
I started playing because I was good at it, I
enjoyed it, and I love the game. Now. As you
get older, like in any big business, you become jaded,
and elements of money come in, but at your core,
probably more than all of us in all of our
given jobs, where money and revenue is a huge part

(54:15):
of our daily vocabulary in how we operate, it's not
really like that in sports, especially if you play professional baseball,
professional basketball, or in the NFL, because you're not worried
about the revenue growth it's flowing. So Dak Prescott, who
polarizing player for sure, because he makes a ton of

(54:38):
money and is in line for another large contract, whether
the Cowboys end up extending him or whether they let
him play this year out and he hits free agency.
We've just seen Kirk Cousins get a lot of money.
Dak would get more. He's younger and he's healthy, assuming
he doesn't get injured this year, So the money's going
to be there no matter what. And at this current

(54:59):
time in twenty twenty four. Dak Prescott has generational wealth.
He's made hundreds of millions of dollars. He's made one
hundred and sixty million dollars on his last contract alone
and then being the Cowboys' quarterback. Give it how many
commercials we've all seen him and I can't even imagine
how much he's made off the field. So whether he

(55:21):
played another snap in football ever, again, money's never going
to be an issue. So when Dak Prescott said I
don't play for the money, that is not the reason
I play football. I do at his core believe him.
Here's the problem, Like I don't believe Peyton Manning started

(55:41):
playing football for money, like I just said, idolized his dad,
was good at it, became a star. But by early
on in his Colt's career, Tom Condon representing him, they
took every penny possible because money for a player does
equate to respect, right, And he's looking at all these

(56:06):
other players. Let's use Jared Goff as an example. I
want more money than that guy, but that's not the
reason these guys play. And I think you go all
over the NFL with guys making a ton of money
like did Nick Bosa and Christian McCaffrey, and Jason kelcey
and Travis Kelcey and Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen list

(56:28):
off all the Pro Bowl elite players. They do. They
play football for money. Patrick Mahomes is a good example,
signed for four hundred and fifty dollars several years ago,
is making a boatload off the field, has more money
than he ever dreamed of having. Yet when you watch

(56:50):
him play, you go, this is this guy looks like
he's playing for a contract. His effort, his energy clearly,
how hard he works, how serious he takes his craft.
So I think most good players in the NFL at
their core don't play football necessarily for money. But the

(57:11):
way the businesses, the setup of player contracts, it is
based on respect. So most of these guys, once they
get to their mid to late twenties and are on
their second contract, have an unlimited amount of money, where
especially at the high end, guys where they never think
about it. They want this house, they could get it.

(57:31):
They want to take this vacation, they can do it.
Their family can do basically whatever they want. This private school,
we can do this, we can do that. But like
when it comes to contract time, I want to be
paid more than this guy. It's really no different than
all of our jobs. If all this information was public,

(57:53):
if you knew the dude next to you at the
cubicle that you are better than at your job you
make more money for the company was making twenty five
percent more than you, you'd probably have an issue with it.
But if you don't know, and you're highly compensated and
business as well, you're fine. Part of the issue here

(58:15):
is everything's public. Everyone knows how much everyone makes, which
is not normal basically in every industry. Yet in football,
with the players, everyone knows to the penny what the
other guy is making, how much their bonus is, how
much their guaranteed money is, what their cash flow is,
what their actual contract is, word for word, line for line.

(58:41):
There was an article on The Athletic within the last
three or four months about the uphill battle assistant coaches
in the NFL have had to fight to learn what
other assistant coaches are making. And they have got together
doing this thing at the combine where they kind of
huddle up and tell each other their salaries so they

(59:04):
know when they're negotiating for themselves because without it, you're
kind of flying blind. You're like, yeah, they're offering me
four hundred grand, it's incredible. Well, it's like the average
position coach with your level of tenure in the National
Football League who's having success makes six hundred and fifty grand.

(59:25):
So you are vastly underpaid relative to your job. But
if you don't know that, it might be a lot
of money to you. And the players don't have to
worry about that because they know exactly how much everyone makes.
So it gets complicated. Business is complicated, it's emotional, it's cutthroat,
and for most of us, right like, money matters because

(59:50):
you got to pay the bills, you got to feed
your children. Like with inflation, most human beings, I mean,
the medium income in America is like sixty grand, sixty
five thousand dollars, and depending on where you live, you
could make one hundred and fifty grand and it be
equivalent to that because you live in San Francisco, you
live in Los Angeles, you live in New York, you

(01:00:11):
live in some of these places that are very very expensive.
I've always said this money's all relative. But in the
NFL with the highest paid positions, when you're a pro
Bowl level player. It's about ego because you don't necessarily
need the money to live. When you're talking about a
third contract, you've already made a ton of cash. But

(01:00:31):
it is about respect. So I saw a lot of
takes flying around that he's full of shit, he's dis ingenuous.
I do believe him. I think Dak Prescott, like the
majority of good players in the NFL, play football one
because they're good at it. Two they enjoy it. It's
fun to do what you're good at, especially in a

(01:00:52):
public forum where millions of people watch and everyone knows
your name. Even if when you have shitty games, everyone
one has a negative take and a criticism toward you,
it still beats being a plumber, as Belichick said. But
this is all about ego, and this is all about
respect relative to his peers, right, And that's what I

(01:01:13):
think this comes down to and why it makes it
a pretty complicated case. And when you're not an elite guy,
which Dak is not, which Cousins is not, and your
team is not winning big they think twice. It's why
Minnesota ultimately let Cousins walk. It's why Dallas is kind
of in this predicament with Dak Prescott. You know, teams
that don't think twice the bills with Josh Allen, the

(01:01:37):
Chiefs with Mahomes. You're like, well, the Ravens did with Lamar.
Not really. They gave him like two hundred million dollars,
so it's like they ultimately cut the check and probably
a little more contentious than some of these other contracts,
but it was a you know, unique situation, especially after
he got injured that last year. And I bet they

(01:01:59):
do we re credit playing it out the way they did,
because they probably could have got him a little cheaper
if they had done it earlier, but ultimately got done.
Lamar Jackson was never going anywhere else, and that's usually
the case with the high high end guys. Everyone else like, yeah,
do I really want to pay you fifty million dollars
when we can't win a playoff game and you don't
play well in those spots, Like it's a legitimate conversation.

(01:02:23):
But whether the Cowboys pay him or whether another team
pays him, he's gonna be a rich guy who gets
even richer. I think it's pretty funny that once something
gets established like this is difficult, it's difficult forever it's like, yeah,
things kind of change. Like back in the day twenty

(01:02:43):
twenty five years ago, whenever Hard Knocks first started, it
was probably very intrusive to have multiple cameras following you
everywhere around when I was a kid, my mom to
get the pictures, I don't even know the right adjective
to this describe it published. You would have to go
to Long's Drugs in the middle of Davis and wait

(01:03:05):
a couple of days, and then they would have your photos.
Remember those things if you're my age year older, those
three ring binders that you'd all have. Whenever you go
to Famili's houses, they'd all have all your friends just
full of photos. Now that's called the iPhone. And I
had some friends that had personal recorders, some like legit cameras.

(01:03:26):
They were pretty big handheld cameras. Again, all on the iPhone.
Press conferences and media and all that stuff used to
be a really really big deal. Now I think all
these guys are really numb to it because one think
how many teams. I'm pretty sure every single one puts
out like in depth videos leading up through free agency,

(01:03:50):
the draft, and then on draft night with their own
camera crew. Camera boom, mic. I watched the Jags in
trimbalk last night. There's a fucking boom mic in the
draft room. I haven't been in the draft room for
a while, but it wasn't in nineteen ninety seven, in
the twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, and the Eagles were on

(01:04:10):
the forefront of this, with cameras, with in house production,
none of that existed. What I'd say, for the last
several years, all the teams in the league are all
doing it. So the coaches are kind of numb to
being miked up and having a camera around them in
their own building. Most of you, I would imagine listening,

(01:04:31):
haven't been to like an NFL press conference, But if
you go to one with a coach and definitely a
player in a locker room, every single person interviewing them
basically has their camera up in the light on and
these players are so numb to it. Everything they do
on record is on camera. So forever, this notion was like, oh,

(01:04:54):
the intrusive nature of hard knocks, the cameras mics. That
probably was true in two thousand and six. It was
a lot because you weren't used to seeing people walk
around with cameras beside on game day. Well, in twenty
twenty four, I go to the local deli and three
people are filming themselves eating a roast beef sandwich. Times

(01:05:16):
have changed, and no one knows that more than players
and coaches. So Hard Knocks probably used to be a
major pain in the ass. Obviously it's not ideal, but
I think it's never been less of a hindrance on
the operation of training camp. And here's the other thing.
And I've been saying this for a while. Heart Listen,

(01:05:37):
I Hard Knocks is not for me. It is no
longer for me. It doesn't mean because of this job.
Definitely last year with Aaron Rodgers and the Jets and
this year with Caleb Williams. I'm gonna watch because that's
kind of what I do for a living, though I
don't really like it, because the Hard Knocks I grew
up on, like most people in the two thousands, was

(01:05:59):
so all real and authentic. You got inside the coaches
in front office, the roundtable of the meetings about personnel
and them essentially talking shit about guys who to cut,
what was gonna go on, because that's really what happens.
You no longer get any of that watching the Turk

(01:06:21):
go get guys. You barely see that anymore. You get
a little taste of it, but I would say relative
to what it used to be, it's been cut by
like ninety percent. So to me who's also worked in
it and seen what really gets said and the way
people really talk, it doesn't do much for me. But
maybe I'm not the audience anymore, and that's okay. But

(01:06:45):
I understand the power of the NFL, the popularity of
the NFL. It used to just be training camp Hard Knocks,
four or five episodes. Now they're literally having an off
season Hard Knocks with the New York Giants and then
they're gonna have an season Hard Knocks with some team,
so basically going year round while all these teams are

(01:07:06):
doing in house production that is kind of similar. So
we are inundated with content, which is cool. Like, I'm
not pushing back against that, but Hard Knocks to me,
used to be something very different than it is now.
Obviously the power of social media seeing guys cut. Teams
are very sensitive to that, and I understand from their end,
like I don't want you in when the GM and

(01:07:29):
the coach are talking about who's being shitty and who's
not gonna make the team. But we did used to
get that twenty years ago. At least it felt like
we got a lot more because we did. Now we don't,
and I don't expect that this fall. But it's also
why these player excuse me. The players, they don't really care,

(01:07:50):
but the coaches in GM, especially Ryan Poles, who's not
some big like talking to the media all the time. Guy,
it's surely not gonna like this, but he full editorial control,
like they're not gonna post anything he doesn't want them
to post in the show. So I'm sure the reaction
inside hallis Hall today is like this sucks. Eber Flu's polls.

(01:08:12):
Ian Cunningham is assistant GM. But at the end of
the day, I actually think it could be pretty good
in the sense of, like, you got a lot of
buzz on your team. People want to see Caleb Williams.
This franchise has been down at what feels like for
a long time, and now a lot of people are
very interested in your operation. The other thing is like

(01:08:33):
Hard Knocks was always a death sentence, like if you
went on Hard Knocks, you were gonna suck. Well two
years ago, the Lions went on Hard Knocks. It was good,
mainly because Dan Campbell and I usually think the strength
of a Hard Knocks is the head coach. If the
head coach is a big personality, it can carry the show.
Remember Bill O'Brien, Rex Ryan. Obviously, Dan Campbell, to me

(01:08:56):
it was more enjoyable than the Jets last year with
the Solas. He's just not as entertaining that way. And
I don't expect eber Flus to you know, be Leo
DiCaprio behind the camera. But the thing with Hard Knocks
the last couple of years, the Lion started I think
one in five, but by the end of the season,

(01:09:17):
when they beat the Packers in Aaron rodgers last game,
they clearly were one of the better teams in the
league that second half. And if you take the second
half of last season and then this season, you could
make the argument that only the Chiefs and Niners have
been better during that time. Obviously, last year, the moment
Aaron Rodgers Achilles rips in half their season was over,

(01:09:40):
it had nothing to do with the cameras or the microphones.
Now were they going to be as good as people
like me thought? Who knows? It could have been a
major struggle with their offensive line, and maybe they wouldn't
have been as good. They clearly would not as been
as bad as they were with Zach Wilson, right, but
would they have been a legitimate playoff tender. No one

(01:10:01):
will ever know. We'll get to potentially see this year
if he can stay healthy. But I don't think hard
Knocks has any impact on your success or failure once
the season starts, because I think looking back, the distraction
was probably a big deal. Guys weren't his focus. Guys
were screwing around, Guys were trying to be actors for
the camera. Like I said, I think most of these guys,

(01:10:24):
I mean think how Caleb Williams has been in the
spotlight for probably like five years. He was one of
the biggest recruits in the country. He then went to
Oklahoma where he was trying to beat out Spencer Rattler,
who's now an NFL player, and then he transferred to
usc probably at least so far an unprecedented ANIL deal.
What Jayden Rashott I thought he was getting from Florida,

(01:10:45):
Caleb actually got that in southern California. So these used
to the camera being around all these guys are numb
to it. Hell, Keenan Allen's bet on this before the
Chargers when they had the dual hard knocks with the Rams.
So I think this is really overblown. Now, I said,
I understand being a team, you'd rather not have it
than have it, But I don't think it's anywhere near

(01:11:05):
what it once was, you know, like when I was
in college in two thousand and five.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
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