This week on the podcast John discussed the latest with the Cleveland Browns and their QB room, the wild interview that Bill Belichick did on CBS, and he wraps up the draft coverage by talking about draft grades. All that and more!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume, What is going on everybody? Hopefully everyone's having
a good weekend. We put together a little best of
little best of topics for the weekend. Obviously, the Cleveland
(00:25):
Browns made headlines multiple times with a massive trade with
the Jags, but then they ended up with Shador Sanders,
So what are they doing? We will dive into that.
You know, Draft grades are funny because no one knows anything,
but we did do a dive on some of the
teams and the picks that we liked and are high on.
(00:45):
And what is going on with Belichick? I mean the situation,
this story has taken on a life of its own
with his young lady friend who went viral this last weekend.
So this situation I'd give some thoughts on. But let's
talk a little football. Okay, There's a lot going on,
(01:06):
and I didn't do anything on Saturday. Partly I just
needed a breather. You know, mel Kiper was was fuman.
I'm pro mel Kiper, but I do think he was
clearly I don't know why he was so angry. And
you know, Lewis Riddick and Rhys Davis and they were
going back and forth and it was like, God, you
(01:26):
got to be exhausted. I was exhausted from the story.
I needed to take twenty four hours off, so me
and Colin touched on it. I've had some time to
think about it, and I'm going to rehash the theory
that I just told Coward. So if you already heard it, sorry,
and if you haven't, this is my theory because I
don't think it's that complicated, because it doesn't make much
sense to take multiple quarterbacks in a draft, especially in
(01:50):
the third in the fifth round. That's that's unheard of.
You know, you go back to RG three and Cousins.
It was because Kyle Shanahan and Mike Shanahan did not
want RG three. Kyle Shanahan was trying to convince them
to trade back and take Cousins early. He's talked about this.
This was a situation where I think I just read
something that the Cleveland Browns had flown out and it
(02:13):
never got out. And met with Jimmy Haslam, with the
coach with the GM with Dylan Gabriel. They liked him
a lot. Now I don't even necessarily agree with their assessment.
I think drafting Dylan Gabriel in the third round is
a little rich for my taste. Right, It's like paying
a million dollars for seven hundred thousand dollars home now
(02:34):
value in the eye of the beholder on draft day,
we can argue that till we're blue in the face.
I don't think he was going in the third round.
I actually feel pretty confident now. You could always make
the argument, how do you know I've been doing this
long enough? Pretty good idea. There was a reason the
will Howards, the Riley Leonards, the Quinn You weers like
you didn't need to take those guys in the third
or fourth round. You knew they were gonna be there
in the sixth or seventh. I do think Dylan Gabriel
(02:56):
at the latest. I mean, I think he could have
got him in the fifth. But whatever. My thought is this,
as Shador standers, starts to drop. When you work with
someone long enough, it's like when you're growing up and
you live with your mom, your dad, your brothers. You
really know them well, right, you know what sets them off.
(03:16):
You know what buttons to push to piss them off.
You know when it's like, okay, I better, I got
to be Especially if you have an older brother or
an older sister like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna avoid
this issue. I know my dad really values this, even
though my mom doesn't care. And so you just kind
of work the room a little bit, right. Definitely, if
you've been in a company and you've worked with someone,
(03:37):
you've worked for someone, you get a pretty good feel
for their demands, what they're into, what if they are
an overbearing boss, what they will force you to do,
and you kind of know how to play them a
little bit. I don't mean like nefariously, but just like
to settle everything down. Once Shador Sanders starts dropping, Andrew
(03:58):
Berry and Stefanski aren't them. They know that Jimmy HASLM
is gonna be interested. Why because Jimmy Haslam has forced
several quarterbacks on them that they did not want, and
they clearly in this draft wanted Dylan Gabriel. So once
he starts plummeting, they go maybe texting to each other,
maybe talk in their office, close the door, like maybe
(04:18):
we should draft this guy a little bit higher than
ideally we want to. So we just get a quarterback
in our draft class, and then Shador will go some
picks later and we don't have to force this upon
us because Shador sanders when I think Kevin Stefanski, I
don't think an idea will fit. I actually think Shador's
playing style is a lot like Deshaun Watson. Now, I
(04:40):
think Deshaun was a better college player and a better
prospect than Shadoor, but I think there are some similarities
well in Kevin Stefanski's offense. And this is the Kyle
Shanahan thing. They don't really into freelancing, right that they're
in to do exactly what I tell you. We can
argue to we're blow in the face. That's how they
want to play. It's why they like guys like Kirk
Cousins and Brock Purdy and Joe Flacco and Dylan Gabriel.
(05:05):
He will get rid of the ball quick and go
exactly where you want to go with him. Now, can't
he see that guy's kind of short. We'll find out,
but I think they did that hopefully, like Okay, this
will shut the owner up. The problem is is that
Shador kept dropping, so it's like, wait, didn't know one
picked him in the fourth and then he's still there
in the fifth. Now it gets to a spot where
(05:27):
the owner tells you we're taking them. And when you
watch the reaction of those guys in the draft room,
and I know they push back against this bullshit that
you could see in Stefanski's eyes he wanted no part
of that. Andrew Berry did not want to make that pick.
And then when they discussed it in the press conference,
(05:48):
it was clear like this was not their doing. And
we have a long enough history to now know this
owner forces them to do things they don't want to do.
I think Andrew Berry and I think Kevin Stefanski are
good at their job. Now I don't have to agree
with their quarterback evaluation because I think Schador Sanders is
a better NFL prospect than Dylan Gabriel. They clearly did
(06:09):
not and it makes no sense to take a guy
in the third and then another in the fifth. Because
Michael Lombardi used to talk about this for a long time,
The NFL practices are math equations. You don't get an
unlimited amount of plays. This isn't basketball where it's like,
well just run it again. Eventually, you can only run
so many plays with your players, especially now because of
(06:31):
the rules. So in a practice and I'm just gonna
pick some uh, even numbers to make things even. Let's
say during a team period, we will have thirty reps
of ones verse ones, twos verse twos, threes verse threes.
Well we're not. We don't spread those equally, right. I
give more reps to my better players, especially once the
(06:53):
pads come on in training camp. So when I got
pads on my ones, and I've been to a lot
of practices, and every coach does it a little bit differently.
Get seventy percent of the reps. Then the twos come
in and get the next twenty percent of the reps,
and then the threes get let's say ten to five
percent of the reps. Now, it might change on a
given day, but it is disproportionately weighted to starters, backups,
(07:17):
and threes. And the thing is like at tight end,
if I'm George Kittle, I'm like, hey, coach, I need
a blow. I'm exhausted. It's like, hey take this. Take
the next ten plays off. So the ones, the twos,
in the threes, he just sits on the sideline and
the other tight ends rotate with the ones, rotate with
the twos, rotates with the threes. I can do that
(07:37):
at wide receiver, I can do that at running back.
I can do that at all the other skill positions, right,
I cannot do that at quarterback. Quarterbacks aren't coming in
and out. They stay with the unit. Now with the threes,
you can rotate the threes, or you can rotate a
guy with the twos, I guess, but like if you
are the two quarterback, you get those reps. It's why
(07:58):
you see when there's a competition for the backup job,
they usually rotate them through training camp, but over the time,
like one guy ends up getting more reps what you
would have given going into training camp. Obviously, Joe Flacco
is gonna get the ones and just based on his experience,
and I don't think this guy's any good. He's gonna
start with the twos. That's gonna be Kenny Pickett. So
(08:19):
you're gonna have two guys rotating with the threes. You're
just not gonna get that many plays. So it doesn't
make any sense. I've seen a lot of people try
to justify It's like just keep throwing darts at the dartboard.
And I agree with most positions. It is just very
difficult to take multiple quarterbacks in a draft and get
(08:40):
a feel for either one throughout practices, so you can't
convince me, and other people have written about this in
The Athletic that this wasn't the owner. And anytime the owner,
I'm all for the owner having opinions. It's his team,
but when he's forcing you to take players, and this
feels like it's like this is out of Shador's control.
(09:04):
But I just think it's a weird spot. And the
other thing, and I mentioned this to Colin, is coaches
in front office people sometimes disagree, right, I like a
player that you don't like, or vice versa, and sometimes
we just agree to disagree and we take the player.
And if the coach doesn't like the player that the
(09:24):
front office drafted, he can manipulate how many reps that
guy gets at practice, how much energy and effort I
put into them, right, especially when you're talking mid to
late round picks. And if the coaching staff, if the
head coach, especially if the front office as well, is
not on board, they will not care because part of
(09:45):
and this is the cool part about like being Jalen Milroe. Listen,
I thought he's a pretty big wildcard, pretty risky pick.
But here's what I know, John Schneider and Mike McDonald
all in on him. Think about Mike was around Lamar
for years. Think about what made John Schneider a legend.
He pounded the table for Russell Wilson. So those guys
(10:07):
believe in mobile quarterbacks. You know, Russell was a better
thrower than Lamar right away, just in terms of accuracy.
Lamar obviously became a much better player over the course
the last four or five years. But when people support you,
and this is no different than any industry, when you
work at a place where the guy that hired you
or the guy that runs the company believes in you,
(10:28):
want you there, it's much easier to succeed as a player,
just like as any normal employee. You can start sensing, like,
do these guys even want me here? How often have
we heard over the years, older veteran guys, just players
throughout the history of the league, to be like, yeah,
I was out of place. The coach in the gym
(10:48):
didn't like me, but they just didn't want me there,
and I knew it was destined to fail. Early on.
Happens all the time, will continue to happen. It's happened
historically in the in the league, so I think this
is a very clunky, weird, bizarre spot. And while in
theory I get like, I'll just throw darts at a
dartboard accumulate as many players as you can. Well, yeah,
(11:11):
it's easy to rotate slot corners in and out. It's
easy like, oh, this slot receiver gets these reps. It's
not really how quarterback works. You kind of gotta get
a cohesion with the unit you're repping with. So it's
just very bizarre situation there.
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Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, let's start with William Belichick because listen, I from
just I think a lot of people are judging this guy,
and it's it's a human reaction. When you see a
guy in his mid seventies who's really rich dating a
girl in their mid twenties, A lot of people are
gonna have opinions, a lot of people are going to
be judgmental, and most importantly, a lot of people are
(14:03):
going to make fun of you. Now, if you think
that Bill Belichick is the only coach in the NFL
and definitely college football who is older than fifty five
sixty that has a young girlfriend, you would probably have
to live under a rock. Now. Just because these things
(14:24):
aren't publicly, they are definitely going on. And some of
these men, I promise you have wives and kids at home,
So like Bill Belichick is not some lone wolf here.
He's definitely not the first old rich guy to date
some young girl. And in his business, which is very public,
whether you're an NFL coach, whether you're a college coach,
(14:46):
all these people have PR directors. And I've interviewed coaches, gms,
some players back when I was doing stuff with the
Niners and Raiders over the years, and typically when you're
doing one of these interviews, the PR director is sitting
or stay right there, And honestly, it's never been weird.
I've never been told by one of these guys. And
I have relationships with a lot of these individuals with
(15:08):
different teams, worked with many when I was with the
with the Eagles, met many through the Niners and the Raiders.
Most of them are pretty cool and I'm pretty chill.
It's it's not that serious. Now. If there's something controversial
or something they know is unfair, maybe they will chime in,
But for the most part, like you just become, you
(15:29):
just build a normal relationship with the individual. Now, typically
the coach or the player is not sleeping with that
human being. But I would imagine in Hollywood, in some
of these other industries where there is a female PR director,
and I've never experienced that in the NFL, though some
of the people under the top dog in the NFL
(15:50):
have been women, and who knows, maybe these people have
slept around, but that is a is a different dynamic.
So when you see Bill doing this interview and she's
chiming in from the side, if that was John Middelkoff
at forty years old, I don't think it would be
that weird. I honestly don't think it would be that
(16:11):
big of a story. It would just be the PR
guy doing his job. We're not here to talk about that.
That happens in these circumstances all the time. How often
are you watching a press conference for your team right
during the season when your team loses a game and
you turn on whoever your coach is and he's given
(16:32):
the press conference and you're watching on YouTube, you're watching
it on Twitter, and you hear two more questions. Guys,
that's the PR person, like they have a job to do.
I think the reason we judge this completely different is
because we know Bill's banging, and that is a situation
in itself I found kind of funny. Now, the interview
(16:53):
was extremely awkward and very weird. News flash, Belichick gives
some weird interviews. He has a long history of doing that.
I do think as this week is played out, like
I got to the point where, like I can't keep
clicking on these back and forth between CBS between her,
you know, publicly putting out emails. Here's what I know.
(17:16):
This is not Ole miss this is not Arizona State.
This is North Carolina, a pretty serious academic institution. And
Belichick has had a unique reign in football in a
world where these teams are worth billions of dollars. Typically
they have had many powerful people in the building. Usually
(17:36):
the GM has a lot of sway what he says matters.
Typically in a lot of these places, the president has
a lot of juice. Belichick was basically the king of
the operation despite him not owning the team. Obviously the
Crafts did. The Crafts didn't tell Bill what to do
how he kicked Tom Brady to the curb. So Bill
(17:58):
is used to this world where he is actually much
closer to one of these legendary college coaches like coach
k like you know Bobby Knight's downfall, like Roy Williams
was in North Carolina or some of these football coaches,
Bobby Bowden, Nick Saban, you name it, where they could
(18:18):
do whatever they wanted, no one told them what to do.
Here's the problem. Bill doesn't have this equity with this institution.
So these institutions are run by presidents, right, and they
typically are on the academic side. It's why when you
have these situations, it falls on the athletic director, but
(18:41):
they're not even technically the boss. If the presidents or
depending on how these academic institutions are set up, the
border regions, whoever, it's almost like a private company where
it's like your answer to the CEO and mainly the
board of directors. That's how college football operates. And Belichick
like this has got to be what is going on
right now? What did we get ourselves into? And I
(19:04):
am pro Bill Belichick anyone my age, definitely if you're
older than me. I'd even say if you're in your
mid to early thirties and you witnessed the entire Belichick run,
there is no way that you could argue he's one
of the greatest tacticians you've ever seen. He was a
fucking genius what his teams consistently did since till from
(19:24):
one to like eighteen nineteen was remarkable. Now we can
argue till we're blue in the face about the credit
between him and Tom Brady. You could not have watched
Bill Belichick in these big games and think that he
didn't have a massive advantage over the other coach. And
that's from Pete Carroll to Andy Reid. I'm talking Hall
of famers, je Sean McVay. He was getting the best
(19:45):
of them constantly. Mike Tomlin never had a shot against
William Belichick. But this situation now, pr in college matters
in the NFL, ultimately a doesn't because if you win,
everyone shuts up. Now that's true in college as well.
But you're recruiting, even in this world of nil and
(20:05):
revenue sharing, like you are the front facing individual of
your sport and of your university. The way Kirby Smart
and Nick Saban and Ryan Day and even Jim Harbaugh
Michigan acts conducts themselves, the headlines they make matter. This
would be embarrassing if it was the NFL. I do
think in college this is almost worse. And I started thinking, like,
(20:30):
you know, everyone considers Al Davis one of, if not
the greatest football minds in the history of the NFL.
His last six seven years got a really weird and
it's sad for younger people that's how they remember. This
current iteration of Jerry Jones has just gotten bizarre. I
think he'd be widely considered one of the greatest and
(20:51):
more impactful business minds of one of the great American
businesses we've ever seen, the National Football Lee. When you
get old and you get rich, and it's hard for
anyone around you to check you whether that's like Jerry,
we probably shouldn't do this many interviews, al like, this
is probably not a great idea. Bill, you probably shouldn't
(21:14):
make the twenty five year old you're banging your pr
assistant manager probably not the best idea. Let's let's separate
some things here. But who's gonna tell him that? I mean,
his son works for him, clearly doesn't have the juice
to tell him that. Michael Lombardi also works for him,
Clearly doesn't have the juice to tell him that. And
even if they did, he's not listening, because he's shown
(21:36):
over the last couple decades he ain't really listening to anybody.
And for the most part, it's worked out in his favor.
I do think once you go to college, though, this
has got a chance. He's not a Texas I saw
today headline they're gonna have a forty million dollar payroll
this fall. Sark, who's become a really good coach. I'll
(21:57):
give him his flowers. Has a budget that I not
many teams are going to be even close to. I
would say, and imagine the only teams that could even
sniff his budget would be Ohio State in Oregon. That's
not Belichick in North Carolina. Their talent even in a
conference which is not nearly as good as the top
two conferences the SEC in the Big Ten, he's going
(22:18):
to be at a disadvantage. Plus one huge advantage he
had in the NFL, just like Andy Reid has now
is he every single guy in the league he has
seen or has exposure to coming out in the draft,
and every single coach he's going against, many he's gone
against for years or decades. But he's seen every scheme.
(22:40):
There's nothing you can throw at him on a weekly
basis that he hasn't seen player wise or scheme wise. Well,
college football is doo to Bill. He hasn't coached against
a lot of these guys, a lot of guys that
he's going to see on a weekly basis, have never
worked in the NFL. Now, ultimately, you know, James Gladstone
might be tried to tell you and Jack's and build
(23:00):
it football is this complicated, almost like a technological project.
It's not that complicated. And Bill a couple of years
ago when he did the Top one hundred players with
Brady in the NFL Network, I think did a great
job of articulating, like art war my strengths against your weaknesses,
my weaknesses avoid your strengths. Like we're not trying to
(23:22):
overthink this. We're not building bridges here, We're not building
high rises, We're not doing this isn't a hard transplant,
This isn't that comp We're just trying to gain three
yards on third and two. And I think Bill his
football knowledge speaks for itself all time. Great this situation though,
And you know, Coward used to have a thing two
(23:44):
things make smart men dumb, money and women. And for
a while, you know, Listen builds a single guy, he
can do whatever he wants. But this situation with this
girl empowering her feels like it's just it's kind of
jumped the shark here, and some one, if they can,
needs to rein it in because it's got a chance
to kind of derail this North Carolina experience before it
(24:06):
even starts. Okay, I mean I think the Shador Sanders
topic is settled Belichick and his girlfriend. That topic exploded
on Sunday and means we're a spring football So let's
let's dive into some of your questions. Huge fan of
the bag, huge Niner fan, curious to know your thoughts
(24:29):
on their draft. Saw a couple draft grades and the
team got panned. I personally thought they made some great picks.
One silly Shanahan reach with Watkins the ole miss wide receiver,
but everything else will value with the defensive line as
the main focus. Every year the Niners get ridiculed in
the draft, then the actual core talent is the rounds
(24:51):
four through seven. How much doc should we even put
into these draft grades? Listen? I mean draft grades are
the dumbest thing in the history of the Internet in
terms of to take them seriously. No one has any clue.
The greaters, the teams, the actual players, the fans, no
(25:13):
one knows shit. I mean, no one has any clue.
Now totally understand why they do draft grades because the
written word on the Internet has never been less powerful. Right,
The videos and podcasts wiped them out, but that is
still something that gets people to click. I'm guilty. I
(25:34):
see someone I was like, I'll click. I've clicked on
multiple draft grades, not even because I care. I just
can't help it. It's like an addiction. I've been doing
it for multiple decades. No different than mock drafts. Think
how irrelevant mock drafts are. Nobody knew that the Jacks
were gonna trade out, nobody, and then all of a
sudden they trade up. And the mock drafts are kind
(25:54):
of irrelevant because all of a sudden, Travis Hunter is
not playing for the Browns and he's on the Jacks.
And then it sets off like a domino effect. And
it happens every year, but we consume a lot of
mock drafts. Kyle Shanahan said his wife called him on
draft Day. They just said she looked at a mock
draft and they really wanted Mike Hail Williams, the guy
(26:16):
that ended up taking and he was like pick twenty
eight in the mock draft. She looked at and says Kyle.
Maybe she said, honey, maybe she said, babe, are we
sure that we're drafting the right guy? Are you overvaluing
this player? And even Kyle was like, had to like rethink,
but yeah, it's like the mock drafts. The draft grades
(26:36):
impact the fun of this whole thing, but they don't
matter the forty nine ers. I've been to the majority
of Kyle Shanahan training camps, and the one thing I've learned,
you get really excited, like any training camp you go
to when you have a high pick and we're doing
the Raiders forever Khalil Mcamari Cooper. Back to back years,
(26:58):
you know, with the forty nine ers they had Solomon
Thomas and then Nick Bosa. I think back to back
years obviously Trey Lance when they drafted really high. It's
exciting to go see the first overall pick, but look
at the names that I just gave out. Solomon Thomas
never got his fifth year option picked up and is
on like this fourth different team. Trey Lance is one
(27:18):
of the biggest draft whiffs of all time. Why because
Brock Party came in, Wally pipped him and it wasn't
even close. Not a soul that was at training camp.
Rock Perty's rookie year went Hey, there's Brock party. Do
you know that this guy is gonna become the starter?
No one said that, of course, not no one ever
would say that. And I think you got to be
very careful with just drafts. And this is why I
(27:42):
don't get that into it beside like the super famous players,
because we see it every year. I've been to these
practices where all of a sudden it's like, well, the
third round guy is getting beat out by an undrafted
free agent. The amount of guys that signed undrafted free
agent contracts that will make teams for everybody is pretty
(28:02):
mind blowing. And the thing with the forty nine ers
was clear. I disagree with Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch
in terms of their emphasis on offensive line, especially the
tackle position, like they are just allergic to taking tackles.
I would draft tackles, multiple tackles throughout the draft. I
would treat them like other positions, like maybe we'll hit
(28:23):
on a guy in the fourth round. I'm not looking
for Trent Williams in the fourth round, but can I
get a serviceable player? And they just don't do that,
you know, now, maybe they were in position and guys
went above them. I know in the third round the
Raiders took a couple offensive linemen they were probably interested in.
But I asked around the NFL because I felt like
I like Jalen Walker a little bit more than Michael Williams.
(28:46):
I was rebuffed, like middle cooff, I think you're overhyping it.
I didn't meet many people that I know that didn't
weren't extremely high on their first round pick, six', five
two hundred and seventy, pounds just you, know he's a
little but like he's got a chance to be a,
really really good player in THE. Nfl their second pick
is six' five six six three and, thirty pounds the
(29:08):
defensive Lineman. From texas THAT'S where i got. SOME eh
i think it's a. LITTLE rich a lot of teams
put a lot of emphasis in pass rushing from their interier.
Defensive lineman this guy's not really a. Pass rusher he's
much more of a run stuffer and he's battled defensive
injury concerns over the course of. His career but one
thing with those first, two picks they got enormous, human
(29:32):
beings and their defensive line is. Not existent It's Like
nick bosa and then It's That will smith jiff where
he walks into the, you know to. The mansion everyone's
gone and he's just standing on the rug. Looking around
that's what it looks like after they've literally got rid.
Of EVERYBODY so i never have a problem taking blue
chip players from blue chip programs and it's on you
(29:55):
to coach. Them up and their defensive line coach has
had a lot. OF success i think in the third
round they drafted the kind of run and hit Guy From,
oklahoma state which again some of my friends didn't love,
the player but, you know you watch. His Highlights howie
roseman talked about this over the course of the. Draft
weekend this game is so much about space and, speed
now and that's what this. Guy IS but i mean
(30:16):
put an emphasis on their later. Round picks they have
hit on a lot of. Those guys but you know.
WHO knows i, Don't KNOW so i have. No issue
i'm not pushing back against people going their draft suck
like nobody knows they'll. Be fun the key to their
draft is gonna be those two defensive linemen gotta be
(30:38):
good and obviously ideally hit on some random guys throughout
the course of the third through, seventh, Round RIGHT but
i think they had two, high picks pick eleven and
pick whatever it was forty four or forty three or
five or whatever number it was in the. Second round
like those guys gotta, Be good like those, were, really
(31:00):
really really valuable assets in. This draft the VOLUME
Speaker 2 (31:09):
M hm
The volume, What is going on everybody? Hopefully everyone's having
a good weekend. We put together a little best of
little best of topics for the weekend. Obviously, the Cleveland
(00:25):
Browns made headlines multiple times with a massive trade with
the Jags, but then they ended up with Shador Sanders,
So what are they doing? We will dive into that.
You know, Draft grades are funny because no one knows anything,
but we did do a dive on some of the
teams and the picks that we liked and are high on.
(00:45):
And what is going on with Belichick? I mean the situation,
this story has taken on a life of its own
with his young lady friend who went viral this last weekend.
So this situation I'd give some thoughts on. But let's
talk a little football. Okay, There's a lot going on,
(01:06):
and I didn't do anything on Saturday. Partly I just
needed a breather. You know, mel Kiper was was fuman.
I'm pro mel Kiper, but I do think he was
clearly I don't know why he was so angry. And
you know, Lewis Riddick and Rhys Davis and they were
going back and forth and it was like, God, you
(01:26):
got to be exhausted. I was exhausted from the story.
I needed to take twenty four hours off, so me
and Colin touched on it. I've had some time to
think about it, and I'm going to rehash the theory
that I just told Coward. So if you already heard it, sorry,
and if you haven't, this is my theory because I
don't think it's that complicated, because it doesn't make much
sense to take multiple quarterbacks in a draft, especially in
(01:50):
the third in the fifth round. That's that's unheard of.
You know, you go back to RG three and Cousins.
It was because Kyle Shanahan and Mike Shanahan did not
want RG three. Kyle Shanahan was trying to convince them
to trade back and take Cousins early. He's talked about this.
This was a situation where I think I just read
something that the Cleveland Browns had flown out and it
(02:13):
never got out. And met with Jimmy Haslam, with the
coach with the GM with Dylan Gabriel. They liked him
a lot. Now I don't even necessarily agree with their assessment.
I think drafting Dylan Gabriel in the third round is
a little rich for my taste. Right, It's like paying
a million dollars for seven hundred thousand dollars home now
(02:34):
value in the eye of the beholder on draft day,
we can argue that till we're blue in the face.
I don't think he was going in the third round.
I actually feel pretty confident now. You could always make
the argument, how do you know I've been doing this
long enough? Pretty good idea. There was a reason the
will Howards, the Riley Leonards, the Quinn You weers like
you didn't need to take those guys in the third
or fourth round. You knew they were gonna be there
in the sixth or seventh. I do think Dylan Gabriel
(02:56):
at the latest. I mean, I think he could have
got him in the fifth. But whatever. My thought is this,
as Shador standers, starts to drop. When you work with
someone long enough, it's like when you're growing up and
you live with your mom, your dad, your brothers. You
really know them well, right, you know what sets them off.
(03:16):
You know what buttons to push to piss them off.
You know when it's like, okay, I better, I got
to be Especially if you have an older brother or
an older sister like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna avoid
this issue. I know my dad really values this, even
though my mom doesn't care. And so you just kind
of work the room a little bit, right. Definitely, if
you've been in a company and you've worked with someone,
(03:37):
you've worked for someone, you get a pretty good feel
for their demands, what they're into, what if they are
an overbearing boss, what they will force you to do,
and you kind of know how to play them a
little bit. I don't mean like nefariously, but just like
to settle everything down. Once Shador Sanders starts dropping, Andrew
(03:58):
Berry and Stefanski aren't them. They know that Jimmy HASLM
is gonna be interested. Why because Jimmy Haslam has forced
several quarterbacks on them that they did not want, and
they clearly in this draft wanted Dylan Gabriel. So once
he starts plummeting, they go maybe texting to each other,
maybe talk in their office, close the door, like maybe
(04:18):
we should draft this guy a little bit higher than
ideally we want to. So we just get a quarterback
in our draft class, and then Shador will go some
picks later and we don't have to force this upon
us because Shador sanders when I think Kevin Stefanski, I
don't think an idea will fit. I actually think Shador's
playing style is a lot like Deshaun Watson. Now, I
(04:40):
think Deshaun was a better college player and a better
prospect than Shadoor, but I think there are some similarities
well in Kevin Stefanski's offense. And this is the Kyle
Shanahan thing. They don't really into freelancing, right that they're
in to do exactly what I tell you. We can
argue to we're blow in the face. That's how they
want to play. It's why they like guys like Kirk
Cousins and Brock Purdy and Joe Flacco and Dylan Gabriel.
(05:05):
He will get rid of the ball quick and go
exactly where you want to go with him. Now, can't
he see that guy's kind of short. We'll find out,
but I think they did that hopefully, like Okay, this
will shut the owner up. The problem is is that
Shador kept dropping, so it's like, wait, didn't know one
picked him in the fourth and then he's still there
in the fifth. Now it gets to a spot where
(05:27):
the owner tells you we're taking them. And when you
watch the reaction of those guys in the draft room,
and I know they push back against this bullshit that
you could see in Stefanski's eyes he wanted no part
of that. Andrew Berry did not want to make that pick.
And then when they discussed it in the press conference,
(05:48):
it was clear like this was not their doing. And
we have a long enough history to now know this
owner forces them to do things they don't want to do.
I think Andrew Berry and I think Kevin Stefanski are
good at their job. Now I don't have to agree
with their quarterback evaluation because I think Schador Sanders is
a better NFL prospect than Dylan Gabriel. They clearly did
(06:09):
not and it makes no sense to take a guy
in the third and then another in the fifth. Because
Michael Lombardi used to talk about this for a long time,
The NFL practices are math equations. You don't get an
unlimited amount of plays. This isn't basketball where it's like,
well just run it again. Eventually, you can only run
so many plays with your players, especially now because of
(06:31):
the rules. So in a practice and I'm just gonna
pick some uh, even numbers to make things even. Let's
say during a team period, we will have thirty reps
of ones verse ones, twos verse twos, threes verse threes.
Well we're not. We don't spread those equally, right. I
give more reps to my better players, especially once the
(06:53):
pads come on in training camp. So when I got
pads on my ones, and I've been to a lot
of practices, and every coach does it a little bit differently.
Get seventy percent of the reps. Then the twos come
in and get the next twenty percent of the reps,
and then the threes get let's say ten to five
percent of the reps. Now, it might change on a
given day, but it is disproportionately weighted to starters, backups,
(07:17):
and threes. And the thing is like at tight end,
if I'm George Kittle, I'm like, hey, coach, I need
a blow. I'm exhausted. It's like, hey take this. Take
the next ten plays off. So the ones, the twos,
in the threes, he just sits on the sideline and
the other tight ends rotate with the ones, rotate with
the twos, rotates with the threes. I can do that
(07:37):
at wide receiver, I can do that at running back.
I can do that at all the other skill positions, right,
I cannot do that at quarterback. Quarterbacks aren't coming in
and out. They stay with the unit. Now with the threes,
you can rotate the threes, or you can rotate a
guy with the twos, I guess, but like if you
are the two quarterback, you get those reps. It's why
(07:58):
you see when there's a competition for the backup job,
they usually rotate them through training camp, but over the time,
like one guy ends up getting more reps what you
would have given going into training camp. Obviously, Joe Flacco
is gonna get the ones and just based on his experience,
and I don't think this guy's any good. He's gonna
start with the twos. That's gonna be Kenny Pickett. So
(08:19):
you're gonna have two guys rotating with the threes. You're
just not gonna get that many plays. So it doesn't
make any sense. I've seen a lot of people try
to justify It's like just keep throwing darts at the dartboard.
And I agree with most positions. It is just very
difficult to take multiple quarterbacks in a draft and get
(08:40):
a feel for either one throughout practices, so you can't
convince me, and other people have written about this in
The Athletic that this wasn't the owner. And anytime the owner,
I'm all for the owner having opinions. It's his team,
but when he's forcing you to take players, and this
feels like it's like this is out of Shador's control.
(09:04):
But I just think it's a weird spot. And the
other thing, and I mentioned this to Colin, is coaches
in front office people sometimes disagree, right, I like a
player that you don't like, or vice versa, and sometimes
we just agree to disagree and we take the player.
And if the coach doesn't like the player that the
(09:24):
front office drafted, he can manipulate how many reps that
guy gets at practice, how much energy and effort I
put into them, right, especially when you're talking mid to
late round picks. And if the coaching staff, if the
head coach, especially if the front office as well, is
not on board, they will not care because part of
(09:45):
and this is the cool part about like being Jalen Milroe. Listen,
I thought he's a pretty big wildcard, pretty risky pick.
But here's what I know, John Schneider and Mike McDonald
all in on him. Think about Mike was around Lamar
for years. Think about what made John Schneider a legend.
He pounded the table for Russell Wilson. So those guys
(10:07):
believe in mobile quarterbacks. You know, Russell was a better
thrower than Lamar right away, just in terms of accuracy.
Lamar obviously became a much better player over the course
the last four or five years. But when people support you,
and this is no different than any industry, when you
work at a place where the guy that hired you
or the guy that runs the company believes in you,
(10:28):
want you there, it's much easier to succeed as a player,
just like as any normal employee. You can start sensing, like,
do these guys even want me here? How often have
we heard over the years, older veteran guys, just players
throughout the history of the league, to be like, yeah,
I was out of place. The coach in the gym
(10:48):
didn't like me, but they just didn't want me there,
and I knew it was destined to fail. Early on.
Happens all the time, will continue to happen. It's happened
historically in the in the league, so I think this
is a very clunky, weird, bizarre spot. And while in
theory I get like, I'll just throw darts at a
dartboard accumulate as many players as you can. Well, yeah,
(11:11):
it's easy to rotate slot corners in and out. It's
easy like, oh, this slot receiver gets these reps. It's
not really how quarterback works. You kind of gotta get
a cohesion with the unit you're repping with. So it's
just very bizarre situation there.
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Speaker 1 (13:41):
Okay, let's start with William Belichick because listen, I from
just I think a lot of people are judging this guy,
and it's it's a human reaction. When you see a
guy in his mid seventies who's really rich dating a
girl in their mid twenties, A lot of people are
gonna have opinions, a lot of people are going to
be judgmental, and most importantly, a lot of people are
(14:03):
going to make fun of you. Now, if you think
that Bill Belichick is the only coach in the NFL
and definitely college football who is older than fifty five
sixty that has a young girlfriend, you would probably have
to live under a rock. Now. Just because these things
(14:24):
aren't publicly, they are definitely going on. And some of
these men, I promise you have wives and kids at home,
So like Bill Belichick is not some lone wolf here.
He's definitely not the first old rich guy to date
some young girl. And in his business, which is very public,
whether you're an NFL coach, whether you're a college coach,
(14:46):
all these people have PR directors. And I've interviewed coaches, gms,
some players back when I was doing stuff with the
Niners and Raiders over the years, and typically when you're
doing one of these interviews, the PR director is sitting
or stay right there, And honestly, it's never been weird.
I've never been told by one of these guys. And
I have relationships with a lot of these individuals with
(15:08):
different teams, worked with many when I was with the
with the Eagles, met many through the Niners and the Raiders.
Most of them are pretty cool and I'm pretty chill.
It's it's not that serious. Now. If there's something controversial
or something they know is unfair, maybe they will chime in,
But for the most part, like you just become, you
(15:29):
just build a normal relationship with the individual. Now, typically
the coach or the player is not sleeping with that
human being. But I would imagine in Hollywood, in some
of these other industries where there is a female PR director,
and I've never experienced that in the NFL, though some
of the people under the top dog in the NFL
(15:50):
have been women, and who knows, maybe these people have
slept around, but that is a is a different dynamic.
So when you see Bill doing this interview and she's
chiming in from the side, if that was John Middelkoff
at forty years old, I don't think it would be
that weird. I honestly don't think it would be that
(16:11):
big of a story. It would just be the PR
guy doing his job. We're not here to talk about that.
That happens in these circumstances all the time. How often
are you watching a press conference for your team right
during the season when your team loses a game and
you turn on whoever your coach is and he's given
(16:32):
the press conference and you're watching on YouTube, you're watching
it on Twitter, and you hear two more questions. Guys,
that's the PR person, like they have a job to do.
I think the reason we judge this completely different is
because we know Bill's banging, and that is a situation
in itself I found kind of funny. Now, the interview
(16:53):
was extremely awkward and very weird. News flash, Belichick gives
some weird interviews. He has a long history of doing that.
I do think as this week is played out, like
I got to the point where, like I can't keep
clicking on these back and forth between CBS between her,
you know, publicly putting out emails. Here's what I know.
(17:16):
This is not Ole miss this is not Arizona State.
This is North Carolina, a pretty serious academic institution. And
Belichick has had a unique reign in football in a
world where these teams are worth billions of dollars. Typically
they have had many powerful people in the building. Usually
(17:36):
the GM has a lot of sway what he says matters.
Typically in a lot of these places, the president has
a lot of juice. Belichick was basically the king of
the operation despite him not owning the team. Obviously the
Crafts did. The Crafts didn't tell Bill what to do
how he kicked Tom Brady to the curb. So Bill
(17:58):
is used to this world where he is actually much
closer to one of these legendary college coaches like coach
k like you know Bobby Knight's downfall, like Roy Williams
was in North Carolina or some of these football coaches,
Bobby Bowden, Nick Saban, you name it, where they could
(18:18):
do whatever they wanted, no one told them what to do.
Here's the problem. Bill doesn't have this equity with this institution.
So these institutions are run by presidents, right, and they
typically are on the academic side. It's why when you
have these situations, it falls on the athletic director, but
(18:41):
they're not even technically the boss. If the presidents or
depending on how these academic institutions are set up, the
border regions, whoever, it's almost like a private company where
it's like your answer to the CEO and mainly the
board of directors. That's how college football operates. And Belichick
like this has got to be what is going on
right now? What did we get ourselves into? And I
(19:04):
am pro Bill Belichick anyone my age, definitely if you're
older than me. I'd even say if you're in your
mid to early thirties and you witnessed the entire Belichick run,
there is no way that you could argue he's one
of the greatest tacticians you've ever seen. He was a
fucking genius what his teams consistently did since till from
(19:24):
one to like eighteen nineteen was remarkable. Now we can
argue till we're blue in the face about the credit
between him and Tom Brady. You could not have watched
Bill Belichick in these big games and think that he
didn't have a massive advantage over the other coach. And
that's from Pete Carroll to Andy Reid. I'm talking Hall
of famers, je Sean McVay. He was getting the best
(19:45):
of them constantly. Mike Tomlin never had a shot against
William Belichick. But this situation now, pr in college matters
in the NFL, ultimately a doesn't because if you win,
everyone shuts up. Now that's true in college as well.
But you're recruiting, even in this world of nil and
(20:05):
revenue sharing, like you are the front facing individual of
your sport and of your university. The way Kirby Smart
and Nick Saban and Ryan Day and even Jim Harbaugh
Michigan acts conducts themselves, the headlines they make matter. This
would be embarrassing if it was the NFL. I do
think in college this is almost worse. And I started thinking, like,
(20:30):
you know, everyone considers Al Davis one of, if not
the greatest football minds in the history of the NFL.
His last six seven years got a really weird and
it's sad for younger people that's how they remember. This
current iteration of Jerry Jones has just gotten bizarre. I
think he'd be widely considered one of the greatest and
(20:51):
more impactful business minds of one of the great American
businesses we've ever seen, the National Football Lee. When you
get old and you get rich, and it's hard for
anyone around you to check you whether that's like Jerry,
we probably shouldn't do this many interviews, al like, this
is probably not a great idea. Bill, you probably shouldn't
(21:14):
make the twenty five year old you're banging your pr
assistant manager probably not the best idea. Let's let's separate
some things here. But who's gonna tell him that? I mean,
his son works for him, clearly doesn't have the juice
to tell him that. Michael Lombardi also works for him,
Clearly doesn't have the juice to tell him that. And
even if they did, he's not listening, because he's shown
(21:36):
over the last couple decades he ain't really listening to anybody.
And for the most part, it's worked out in his favor.
I do think once you go to college, though, this
has got a chance. He's not a Texas I saw
today headline they're gonna have a forty million dollar payroll
this fall. Sark, who's become a really good coach. I'll
(21:57):
give him his flowers. Has a budget that I not
many teams are going to be even close to. I
would say, and imagine the only teams that could even
sniff his budget would be Ohio State in Oregon. That's
not Belichick in North Carolina. Their talent even in a
conference which is not nearly as good as the top
two conferences the SEC in the Big Ten, he's going
(22:18):
to be at a disadvantage. Plus one huge advantage he
had in the NFL, just like Andy Reid has now
is he every single guy in the league he has
seen or has exposure to coming out in the draft,
and every single coach he's going against, many he's gone
against for years or decades. But he's seen every scheme.
(22:40):
There's nothing you can throw at him on a weekly
basis that he hasn't seen player wise or scheme wise. Well,
college football is doo to Bill. He hasn't coached against
a lot of these guys, a lot of guys that
he's going to see on a weekly basis, have never
worked in the NFL. Now, ultimately, you know, James Gladstone
might be tried to tell you and Jack's and build
(23:00):
it football is this complicated, almost like a technological project.
It's not that complicated. And Bill a couple of years
ago when he did the Top one hundred players with
Brady in the NFL Network, I think did a great
job of articulating, like art war my strengths against your weaknesses,
my weaknesses avoid your strengths. Like we're not trying to
(23:22):
overthink this. We're not building bridges here, We're not building
high rises, We're not doing this isn't a hard transplant,
This isn't that comp We're just trying to gain three
yards on third and two. And I think Bill his
football knowledge speaks for itself all time. Great this situation though,
And you know, Coward used to have a thing two
(23:44):
things make smart men dumb, money and women. And for
a while, you know, Listen builds a single guy, he
can do whatever he wants. But this situation with this
girl empowering her feels like it's just it's kind of
jumped the shark here, and some one, if they can,
needs to rein it in because it's got a chance
to kind of derail this North Carolina experience before it
(24:06):
even starts. Okay, I mean I think the Shador Sanders
topic is settled Belichick and his girlfriend. That topic exploded
on Sunday and means we're a spring football So let's
let's dive into some of your questions. Huge fan of
the bag, huge Niner fan, curious to know your thoughts
(24:29):
on their draft. Saw a couple draft grades and the
team got panned. I personally thought they made some great picks.
One silly Shanahan reach with Watkins the ole miss wide receiver,
but everything else will value with the defensive line as
the main focus. Every year the Niners get ridiculed in
the draft, then the actual core talent is the rounds
(24:51):
four through seven. How much doc should we even put
into these draft grades? Listen? I mean draft grades are
the dumbest thing in the history of the Internet in
terms of to take them seriously. No one has any clue.
The greaters, the teams, the actual players, the fans, no
(25:13):
one knows shit. I mean, no one has any clue.
Now totally understand why they do draft grades because the
written word on the Internet has never been less powerful. Right,
The videos and podcasts wiped them out, but that is
still something that gets people to click. I'm guilty. I
(25:34):
see someone I was like, I'll click. I've clicked on
multiple draft grades, not even because I care. I just
can't help it. It's like an addiction. I've been doing
it for multiple decades. No different than mock drafts. Think
how irrelevant mock drafts are. Nobody knew that the Jacks
were gonna trade out, nobody, and then all of a
sudden they trade up. And the mock drafts are kind
(25:54):
of irrelevant because all of a sudden, Travis Hunter is
not playing for the Browns and he's on the Jacks.
And then it sets off like a domino effect. And
it happens every year, but we consume a lot of
mock drafts. Kyle Shanahan said his wife called him on
draft Day. They just said she looked at a mock
draft and they really wanted Mike Hail Williams, the guy
(26:16):
that ended up taking and he was like pick twenty
eight in the mock draft. She looked at and says Kyle.
Maybe she said, honey, maybe she said, babe, are we
sure that we're drafting the right guy? Are you overvaluing
this player? And even Kyle was like, had to like rethink,
but yeah, it's like the mock drafts. The draft grades
(26:36):
impact the fun of this whole thing, but they don't
matter the forty nine ers. I've been to the majority
of Kyle Shanahan training camps, and the one thing I've learned,
you get really excited, like any training camp you go
to when you have a high pick and we're doing
the Raiders forever Khalil Mcamari Cooper. Back to back years,
(26:58):
you know, with the forty nine ers they had Solomon
Thomas and then Nick Bosa. I think back to back
years obviously Trey Lance when they drafted really high. It's
exciting to go see the first overall pick, but look
at the names that I just gave out. Solomon Thomas
never got his fifth year option picked up and is
on like this fourth different team. Trey Lance is one
(27:18):
of the biggest draft whiffs of all time. Why because
Brock Party came in, Wally pipped him and it wasn't
even close. Not a soul that was at training camp.
Rock Perty's rookie year went Hey, there's Brock party. Do
you know that this guy is gonna become the starter?
No one said that, of course, not no one ever
would say that. And I think you got to be
very careful with just drafts. And this is why I
(27:42):
don't get that into it beside like the super famous players,
because we see it every year. I've been to these
practices where all of a sudden it's like, well, the
third round guy is getting beat out by an undrafted
free agent. The amount of guys that signed undrafted free
agent contracts that will make teams for everybody is pretty
(28:02):
mind blowing. And the thing with the forty nine ers
was clear. I disagree with Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch
in terms of their emphasis on offensive line, especially the
tackle position, like they are just allergic to taking tackles.
I would draft tackles, multiple tackles throughout the draft. I
would treat them like other positions, like maybe we'll hit
(28:23):
on a guy in the fourth round. I'm not looking
for Trent Williams in the fourth round, but can I
get a serviceable player? And they just don't do that,
you know, now, maybe they were in position and guys
went above them. I know in the third round the
Raiders took a couple offensive linemen they were probably interested in.
But I asked around the NFL because I felt like
I like Jalen Walker a little bit more than Michael Williams.
(28:46):
I was rebuffed, like middle cooff, I think you're overhyping it.
I didn't meet many people that I know that didn't
weren't extremely high on their first round pick, six', five
two hundred and seventy, pounds just you, know he's a
little but like he's got a chance to be a,
really really good player in THE. Nfl their second pick
is six' five six six three and, thirty pounds the
(29:08):
defensive Lineman. From texas THAT'S where i got. SOME eh
i think it's a. LITTLE rich a lot of teams
put a lot of emphasis in pass rushing from their interier.
Defensive lineman this guy's not really a. Pass rusher he's
much more of a run stuffer and he's battled defensive
injury concerns over the course of. His career but one
thing with those first, two picks they got enormous, human
(29:32):
beings and their defensive line is. Not existent It's Like
nick bosa and then It's That will smith jiff where
he walks into the, you know to. The mansion everyone's
gone and he's just standing on the rug. Looking around
that's what it looks like after they've literally got rid.
Of EVERYBODY so i never have a problem taking blue
chip players from blue chip programs and it's on you
(29:55):
to coach. Them up and their defensive line coach has
had a lot. OF success i think in the third
round they drafted the kind of run and hit Guy From,
oklahoma state which again some of my friends didn't love,
the player but, you know you watch. His Highlights howie
roseman talked about this over the course of the. Draft
weekend this game is so much about space and, speed
now and that's what this. Guy IS but i mean
(30:16):
put an emphasis on their later. Round picks they have
hit on a lot of. Those guys but you know.
WHO knows i, Don't KNOW so i have. No issue
i'm not pushing back against people going their draft suck
like nobody knows they'll. Be fun the key to their
draft is gonna be those two defensive linemen gotta be
(30:38):
good and obviously ideally hit on some random guys throughout
the course of the third through, seventh, Round RIGHT but
i think they had two, high picks pick eleven and
pick whatever it was forty four or forty three or
five or whatever number it was in the. Second round
like those guys gotta, Be good like those, were, really
(31:00):
really really valuable assets in. This draft the VOLUME
Speaker 2 (31:09):
M hm
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