3 & Out - CeeDee Lamb gets paid, Trey Lance is really bad, Cut-Down Day - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (01:46):
What is going on? Everybody? John Middlecalff three and Now podcast.
How are we doing well? I'm doing good. I'm sure
many of you doing goo because footballs right around the corner.
We have no more preseason games. College football is back
this week and we're almost a week away from the
NFL starting, so good time. Spirits are high. We had

(02:08):
some breaking news today. I did a reaction video that
was YouTube only yesterday about ten minutes to ceedee lamb.
So you can check that out and I let it
marinate and thought about it a little more, talk about
it on this show. I have a theory on why
Jerry waited so long to pay his wide receiver. I
got to talk about Trey Lance, who threw five interceptions

(02:31):
and had statistically one of the worst preseason games ever
and literally the worst in a decade. So we'll discuss that.
In regards to just we'll talk about it the Broncos.
You guys know where I stand in terms of backup
quarterbacks not wanting to be the starter. That is a problem.

(02:51):
Some comments from Zach Wilson Jared Stidham that really stood
out to me. And then a theory on Belichick something
to keep an eye on, because, let's face it, he's
gonna be in our world. He was on Pat McAfee
for thirty plus minutes. It was really good. I highly
recommend going to check it out. We're gonna see a
lot of Bill, and the question is gonna be he
wants to coach, Like Pete Carroll's like, yeah, I'm good.

(03:12):
I'll just go teach the little usc hangout in Newport,
Manhattan or wherever the hell he lives, and just and
just chill. I'm super rich. Bill is like, I'm watching
football and breaking down football. I want to coach. Well,
where's gonna coach? In twenty twenty five? He said, something
to down McAfee, that something we should be keeping an
eye on. And then the big cutdowns, which I was

(03:32):
a part of when I worked for the Eagles. I
think I did it for a couple of years, honestly,
meeting the guys getting their play. But it's a tough day.
It sucks. Even if the guy you know isn't that good,
it doesn't matter. It's just it's a weird, weird environment something.
You know, these coaches and gms. I don't think you
ever quite get numb to, but just have some overall thoughts.

(03:53):
And a lot of guys that got drafted are gonna
get cut you know, fourth round picks, fifth round pick,
sixth round pick, seventh round picks, guys from the pre
years that we're drafted. But it doesn't determine your success,
and I think we all can relate to these situations.
When you hit a little adversity, that's usually when you
get better. And then of course the Middlecoff Mailbag at
John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those dms, get

(04:15):
your questions answered here on the show. Everything is up
on YouTube, even some extra stuff on YouTube as well
as if you listen on Collins feed, Make sure you
subscribe to three and out feed, and we'll just keep
rocking and wrong well podcasts all week. Stucky Yesterday, Big
Gambling Preview came out on Monday, So if you miss that,
go check that out. And before we dive into Ceedee

(04:36):
Lamb and the Cowboys, do you want to go to
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Last minute tickets, lowest price is guaranteed. Well, I think
we're in the middle of a market explosion when it

(05:43):
comes to wide receivers, and we see this in a
lot of different industries, when something just takes off and
it feels like it will never stop. Now, I'm not
saying that there's gonna be because sometimes when there's a boom,
there also comes a bust and a disaster. Sure, and
we saw that with the running backs. For a long
period of time in my life, running backs were a

(06:06):
focal position or focal point for teams to build their
team around, and up until within the last decade really
but even six seven years, they were always a highly
paid guy. They were someone that you relied on. I
was just watching the Steve McNair doc rip and you
just I was telling Maria, like, I don't think you

(06:28):
realize how good Eddie George was. You could just ride
this guy like a freaking thoroughbread and he was. I mean,
he was a massive, great player. And there were guys
like him all around the league, and they got paid
premiums and then after the Girly deal, after the Zeke deal.
Let's face it, last year, all these guys were bitching
and moaning because no one wanted to get paid because
the market had changed. And the market right now in

(06:49):
these wide receivers is outrageous in a good way. If
you're them, if you are these teams, you're definitely a
little uncomfortable because we've never seen teams allocate so much
to a position not named offensive tackle or defensive end
and obviously the quarterback and sustain winning Now. I said
this yesterday when the news broke that all these guys

(07:11):
getting paid have proven to be winning players. So it's
not like these guys are playing on crappy teams and
then get paid like Saint Brown. Now has been a
stall war for a team that we all think is
gonna be awesome again. They won a bunch last year.
They were trending in the right direction two years like
He's a winning player, Jamar Chase, proven winning player, Ceedee

(07:31):
Lamb their best wide receiver. They're rattling off twelve wins
a season. You know, But I think the Chiefs kind
of proved when they flip their guys, same with the
Packers and just kept on having success. It does make
you think, and it does make you wonder, and I
think we're in the middle of a case study if
this works or it does not, And I don't know

(07:54):
the answer. I don't blame any of these teams for
signing their guys. I think it's so easy to pull
the Chiefs move or pull the Packers move, it can
easily blow up in your face. The whole point of
drafting is to land Jamar Chase at fifth overall, or
land Ceed Lamb in the top twenty, or land Brandon
Ayuk at the end of the first round. Now, Ayuk

(08:15):
is in a different category than Justin Jefferson, CD Lamb,
and Jamar Chase. He's not as good of a player
as those guys. But that's the point of a draft pick,
is to land a star player. Then when it comes
to paying them, you have to decide what am I
going to allocate? And a lot of talk has been
Jerry Jones, why does he wait so long? I have
a simple theory. I looked it up getting ready for

(08:38):
this podcast. Justin Jefferson signed his historic contract on June third,
So we are almost three months removed, all of June,
all of July, and almost all of August before Jerry
Jones pulls the trigger and gives a contract to Ceed Lamb.
That the moment that contract was signed. Now, it might

(08:58):
not have been the exact numbers, but you were gonna
be in the ballpark about ninety five ninety eight percent
when it came to paying Ceede Lamb. Well, if you're
Jerry Jones and you look at the preseason, you go,
we're not gonna play any of our guys. This entire
preseason was basically a tryout for Trey Lance. And you
feel good about the guy because part of when you
sign one of these massive contracts, right, and we've seen

(09:20):
it with other positions Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, Jefferson, Saint Brown,
Piney Seul, like we've seen a lot of young guys
get broken off. You believe that that guy on and
off the field is worth it. You trust his work
ethic one you've seen it because he's been your guy.
The character, the wiring is all there. You feel good

(09:41):
about him being in shape. Now, there's a difference between
training and being ready for an actual football game, but
you still got two plus weeks to get ready. As
you go, well, we already know the numbers. The stock
market has been ripping this year. All my money's invested.
I'm sure if i'm Jerry or a large chunk bit
that pays these contracts, not like you just sit it

(10:03):
in a savings account that yields you zero point zero
one percent, even if you had put it in a
money market fund, A couple hundred million dollars given you
five percent. And we know Jerry, little bit of a
wheeler and dealer, he's got some big kahonas on him.
I would imagine he's been a little more aggressive. So
he goes, Listen, we're gonna pay this contract anyway. We're

(10:23):
gonna have to give him a thirty five to forty
million dollars signing bonus. I have this money paying me
ten fifteen percent a month potentially right now, depending on
where he's invested. So as long as we get this
guy under contract before we cut down our roster, why
don't we just let the money ride and basically have
this contract kind of accumulate money that's gonna essentially pay

(10:46):
him of money that we already have. So My theory
was that Jerry was making so much money in some
of his accounts, he just let this keep ripping, and
he had a date of really today, yesterday kind of
this kind of timeline really before Tuesday. The cutdown that
well from the contract that we know he's gonna sign,
but we could have done this like this number in

(11:08):
this contract. Jerry knew this three weeks ago. Why wouldn't
he just sign it because he was making money off
his money? Basic economics, that's my theory on the whole thing,
especially with the archaic way of having to fund these
deals in escrow. So you got to lose the cash anyway,
you might as well keep it if it's doing well.
And at the end of the day, like to me,

(11:28):
the only news was the amount of money they paid him.
There was never any question about this guy getting traded.
No one thought he wasn't gonna be a Cowboy. And
now the pressure, like there's always pressure on the Dallas Cowboys.
They're the biggest brand in the NFL. Their quarterback and
their coach are under one year contracts. And it's gonna
be a fascinating watch because, honestly, week one, I like them,

(11:50):
I like the Cowboys more than most. Everyone thinks that
they're gonna come back to earth be under five hundred.
I do not. I think they're a playoff team. And
they had a big blow that the news came out
over the last twenty four hours that Bland their star
dB kind of do it all, just makes a lot
of plays President State Bulldog before sack State, So California guy,

(12:11):
it hurts. He's gonna be out for a couple months.
But they still got a lot of good players. They
got a lot of good young offensive linemen and he
gets CD ready to roll. I'm more bullish on the
Cowboys than most. Now. Part of being a wheeler and
dealer is trying to find value, and Jerry did that
when he traded a fourth round pick for Trey Lance.

(12:33):
And we've talked a lot about this. The reason Trey
Lance went for way more than Mac Jones, who's a
much better player. I mean Mac Jones, listen, I don't
like him as a starting quarterback. He's a good backup
quarterback justin fields. As of recording, this probably should be
the starter in Pittsburgh. And whom I Zach Wilson, who
all those guys were traded for six and seventh round picks.

(12:54):
I think Zach Wilson's gonna win the number two job.
Those guys were traded this offseason for one year. Jerry
got Trey Lance for two. Now, it was a lot
of money. It was like nine million dollars and you
took the contract from the forty nine ers, which was
I mean looking back that that was a fleecing. And
people like, well they traded three first round picks. Yeah,
that's water into the bridge. That's spilled milk. That happened

(13:17):
once you have an established bad asset that no one
was offering nearly that much. It was a bad trade.
Is it the end all be all? Of course not.
It's not that big a deal. But once you trade
for a guy that's making five plus million dollars, that
I got news for you. If you look at the
league and go, let's assume every team has three quarterbacks.

(13:37):
Not every team will keep three on their fifty three,
but every team will have three in some form or fashion.
The team that have two will have a guy in
the practice squad. Many teams will have three guys on
their active roster. So that's ninety six quarterbacks. I'm not
sure that Trey Lance would crack the top ninety. I'm
not saying he's the ninety six guy, but he's definitely

(14:00):
not the eightieth. He's not what we keep. Is he
a starting, starting quarterback. He's not a backup quarterback. The
game that he had against the Chargers, who were playing
people full of that are going to be on the
waiver wire come Tuesday. His interceptions. Listen, people throw picks,
it happens. He threw five picks, and honestly, four of

(14:22):
them were just like, that's embarrassing. The one that ended
the game pretty easy throw. Just layer the thing over
the linebacker ahead of the safety. Should have been an
easy touchdown. They would have tied the game. He threw
one in the end zone. He threw a bad pick
on an out route that he was way laid on
that he didn't see the guy. He threw a pick
six where he basically threw it right to the lane.

(14:44):
He's hitting these defenders in stride. He has no touch
and he's a turnover machine. I think there's a chance
he's the worst draft pick in the history of the league. Now,
we have seen guys like JaMarcus Russell, Ryan Leef, like
guys quote unquote busts that were high picks. But those
guys were just that team's draft pick when you factor

(15:04):
in the trade compensation for the players. The Niners gave
up their twelfth pick and then two other ones, and
then the Cowboys gave up a fourth round pick, so
basically three first round picks a fourth round pick for
this player. You can't say that about all these other
guys who were just horrendous, right, they were just we
had the number two overall pick for you picked the

(15:27):
player because we were terrible last year. Right Like, if
Drake may fails, let's just say he's awful, or Jayden
Daniels or whatever. Those teams just had to pick because
the previous year they sucked, and then they get their
first round picks the following years. They didn't give up
anything to get the guy, this player, And listen, it's
not his fault. It's on the teams. But there are

(15:49):
no more excuses. He went from Kyle Shanahan, who's one
of the best offensive coaches, to Mike McCarthy, who's also
a fantastic offensive coach who's coached I don't know, Aaron
Rodgers and Dak Prescott to unreal seasons over the last
fifteen years. This guy just can't play and listen sometimes,
and I've been saying this for a while, it's you

(16:12):
kick yourself when you get a player and you go, God,
he's got some talent, but he just immature. Bad guy,
doesn't care, doesn't have the wiring. I think the hard
part about this one is this guy's a good guy.
He tries like this is not from a lack of effort,
it's just from a lack of skills. And like I said,
worst draft pick of all time. I think when you

(16:33):
factor in the trade compensation, I don't even know if
it would be an argument. When it comes to quarterbacks,
he cannot win a backup job four years into his career. Honestly,
in Dallas it ain't even close. San Francisco last year
he was not even gonna win their third job cause

(16:53):
brock Perty was their starter. Sam Darnold was their backup.
If Kyle Shanahan had to pick one, he would have
gone with Allen over Trey Lance. Trey Lance is now
in the mister Bisky category that if you put him
on the field, you're gonna lose. You cannot play with
the guy it's impossible. Now, for some weird reason, the
Bills want mister Whisky to be their backup. Awful decision

(17:16):
to me. If I'm the Cowboys, because I'm paying them
either way, I would cut the player and just move
him on the practice squad to save a roster spot. Now,
Jerry keeps saying he's a lock, he's a lock, he's
a lock. Like you watched that preseason game, which I
watched it. It was tough, it really was, because the
decision making, the lack of touch, the lack of just

(17:37):
seeing anything. Uh, this is not playing the Baltimore Ravens
defense Week seven last year. This is playing the Chargers
four string players when you're trying to just earn a
spot in the league. So just listen. He's just not
very good and thank god the Cowboys honestly didn't trade more.

(17:59):
But he's the worst of the group. But by a long,
long stretch. And speaking of the other guys, my theory
on my backup quarterback, like look at the Cowboys, Cooper
Rush does not think he's the starter. Does not go
around saying I'm a starter. In this league. You go
around the NFL. Good teams their backup quarterback knows their role.

(18:23):
Doesn't mean they don't have self confidence. They doesn't mean
that they don't think if they're given the opportunity, they
could show everyone wrong. But they know when they walk
into the building, starting whenever ota start till the end
of the season, they have a specific role essentially, be
an extra coach, help the starting quarterback in every way
possible when I get a back. And that's the hard

(18:47):
part about well, see, I mean I just a Fields
might end up being the starter, but Justin Fields thinks
he's a starter, Like whenever you have your backup again,
it might turn out not to be. But even if
it's r Russe Wilson, think a start, like, that's all
messed up. Whoever's behind Lamar Jackson, Who's ever behind Joe Burrow,
Wo's ever behind Matt Stafford, Who's ever behind Josh They
know for a fact. And I wanted to play something

(19:08):
because Zach Wilson, who has looked really good in the
preseason and was really bad obviously with New York, like
couldn't have been any worse. But then he goes to
a real offensive coach in Sean Payton. I'm not saying
this guy's a starter, but maybe there's something there and
maybe this guy can just go on to have a
long career as a backup. But one of the knocks

(19:31):
on Zach Wilson has always been maturity, Like does he
get it? And then I watched him have a fantastic
preseason and then listen to the way he talked about
just being on the team with Bo Nicks as a
starting quarterback.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
Yeah, I was excited for him. I mean, I don't
think it was a surprise to watch obviously, right. I
think he's had a great camp, you know. I told him,
I'm excited for him for this opportunity. I really believe
that they're putting him in a good situation. I think
Sean has done a phenomenal job. And then the that
we get to hang out with, you know, starting with
Davis and then Joe and Pete and then Johnny Mo.
You know, we have a great offensive staff. I think

(20:07):
they do a great job. And then Bo has just
continued to keep getting better, you know. So I'm excited
to see what he can do, and I think he's
ready for it.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Then I listened to Jared Stidham, who's twenty eight years old,
not a young player, been in the league a long time,
has made four career starts. So this is not a
Zach Wilson situation where he got a bunch of starts
early it didn't go well, kind of derailed. Like he's
never been a starter. No one's ever viewed him as
a starter. Why because he's not a starting quarterback. Hell,

(20:39):
the Broncos did him a pretty good solid from giving
him a two year, ten million dollar contract last year
as a backup quarterback, and he got to start a
couple games at the end, just like a couple of
years ago when Derek Carr got a bench slash eventually traded.
He got to start a couple of games there. But
he's a backup. There's nothing wrong with that. You could
argue it's one of the best jobs in the world

(21:00):
because yeah, you make a lot of money as a
starting quarterback. But take a bunch of criticism. You gotta play,
you gotta execute, everyone's watching you. It's hard like you
can get injured as a backup quarterback if you're making five, six,
seven million dollars. In a perfect world, you never take
a real snap. You don't take any reps at practice
beside the scout team where they can't hit you. You're

(21:20):
really just a vibes guy. Right. How many jobs in America? Right?
You know, these guys making forty fifty million dollars playing
professional sports or maybe some of these artists, they have
to perform. If they do not perform, it will not
work out. As a backup quarterback. You don't need to
perform at all unless you're thrust into action that they

(21:41):
don't want you thrust into. I just need you to
provide support. How many people make five million dollars to
just provide support. It's unheard of. It's an incredible gig.
Yet Jared Sidham after the game, and listen, he also,
this isn't the only thing he said, but he said
he's gonna be there to support. But he said something

(22:01):
that I went, I'd think about trading him. If I
was Sean Payton, I wouldn't want this with this type
add I don't want my backup quarter Let's just let's
listen to him really quick on his view of himself
not winning the starting quarterback job in Denver.

Speaker 5 (22:17):
I mean, first of all, obviously I was very disappointed.
You know, I know I'm a starting quarterback in this league.
I have zero doubts about that. And you know, I
just didn't shake.

Speaker 6 (22:27):
Out my way.

Speaker 5 (22:28):
But I know what kind of player am, kind of
person I am, and like I said earlier, I'll be
ready to go if if I need to be. And yeah,
like I said, I have no doubts that I'm I'm
starting calender quarterback in this league.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
I'm sorry. I just I couldn't if I owned the team,
if I was a GM, or if I was the coach,
couldn't have my guy with that attitude. I mean, there's
the chances he's a third quarterback and he believes he's
starting quarterback. And there's something to be said about, like
I said, having belief internally in yourself, but like, you
gotta know your role. The moment you don't know your role,

(23:05):
it's impossible to function in that role. And I wonder
if this offseason he thought this is my time to shine. Well,
I get the moment ota start, but then once the
draft happens and a guy's drafted in the top fifteen,
it's over, buddy, Like Sayonara, Like, they drafted this guy
for a reason and he's clearly a more talented player.

(23:27):
But I can't quite understand having that mentality when you've
started four career games, you're twenty eight years old, like,
you've never been a starter. The only time you started
is because of the starter, because of financial reasons, got benched.
So you have to wonder Sean Payton goes with Zach

(23:48):
Wilson as the backup, does Jared Sidham get shipped somewhere else.
Belichick's performance today on Pat McAfee for thirty plus minutes
was awesome. Belichick is really starting to come into his own.

(24:08):
He ripped some players. He's like, yeah, that contract Atlanta
gave to the corner, He's like, he doesn't have a
pick in two years, What the hell are they doing.
Maybe he's taking some personal shots because he didn't get
the job, but it was good. I highly recommend watching it.
But Bill said something. I was just watching it and
he mentioned something. I was like, damn, because I had heard.

(24:30):
Obviously when the Eagle season ended, a lot of people
thought Sirianni was gonna get fired, and then Bill was available,
and I thought, like, Bill, how would that work? And
then I remember in the early on in the off
season before the Super Bowl, just kind of doing some digging,
and a lot of people hit me with like, Yeah,
I think Bill and how He have a pretty good relationship.

(24:51):
I think Bill respects how He a lot. And then
I listened to Bill's take on the trade how he
made with the Commis, and I went, yeah, I think
what I'm hearing is real. Let's take a listen to
Bill on Howie.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
But I thought it was a really interesting trade that
that Philadelphia and Washington had. I mean, to me, it
was another great trade by Howard Roseman. I mean, I
don't know how he keeps, you know, getting number one
picks for Carson Wentz and gets Dots in for basically
a fourth from the team in his division.

Speaker 6 (25:25):
But it's a great trade how he.

Speaker 1 (25:27):
You know, the Eagles don't have much money on their
salary cap, but they get a rookie contract, they get
a good player. I get it that he's not a starter,
but he'll be the third receiver. He gives a lot
of depth, and he'll be you know, nobody's going to
double Dots in there, right, I mean, he'll be the
third guy, you know, with Brown and Smith and maybe
even Goddard. So I think it's a great, great move
for Philadelphia. They really strengthen their team they really have

(25:49):
to give up anything there doesn't give them a salary
cap money as little as possible, and they gave up,
you know, really not much in the draft. I mean,
if you think about Philadelphia's fifth, which will you know,
probably or Philadelphi is third, which would probably be close
to a fourth, and Washington's fifth, which is probably gonna
be close to a fourth. Let's just say in the ballpark,

(26:09):
you know, you're really looking at not not too big
of a trade there you're throw in the sevens.

Speaker 6 (26:13):
But I mean, it really isn't a big trade.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
And I think it was a great trade by Philadelphia
and by how he I don't know how he keeps
pulling those off.

Speaker 6 (26:20):
But I think you have a great value on this.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
But if you're Bill Belichick and you're gonna come back,
it's pretty clear it's impossible to be the GM and
the head coach again. You need help, right, you need
someone to support you. Andy Reid did that when he
went to Kansas City, and who's one of Bill's best
friends in the league, Andy Reid went did Andy Reid
shoot like a rocket ship? And He's like, you know what,
I'm just gonna coach the team. I need someone I

(26:44):
can trust, and he had John Dorsey who known forever,
and then Brett Beach who's also known forever. Very comfortable.
You need someone who's good at that job. Well, what's Bill?
A big believer in value? You see Ceedee Lamb sign
this contract. Bill never did shit like that, Wait last
minute pay premiums like he hated that crack. So a
lot of people Dallas Bill Belichick don't see it because one,

(27:08):
even if he doesn't want to be the GM, and
he doesn't have a choice with Jerry, he doesn't like
doing business like that. The other team that I've thought
is like, well he's worked for the Giants right back
in the day, maybe as a soft spot for that.
They have no situation with their GM. That guy's completely
over his head. Well you got Howie Roseman, who is
an excellent drafter and who's excellent with value, who can

(27:31):
handle all that, and they have a team with a
lot of talent. So if that job does become available,
because the other thing I'd heard, and this is kind
of well documented, like they were very serious about Bill
if they had moved on from Sirianni. And I wonder
when you listen to those words like Bill respects this guy.
Bill ain't just getting on his knees and you know,

(27:53):
circle jerking everybody. That's not really his style. And if
you listen to that, you know his thirty minute. So
with McAfee, only couple guys. He gave a lot of
credit to Chiefs Eagles trade. I mean, he's not exactly
thrown around compliments. So this is something to keep an
eye on. Now you know where I've stood. I thought
Kellen Moore is a real player, and I do believe that,

(28:16):
But I also think Belichick's a real player, and I
think that would be difficult if the opportunity does present itself.
How serious the Eagles got there, because I think the
relationship with Howie just running all the deals and Bill
just focusing on coaching the team and working hand in
hand with him is pretty viable. The other thing that
he said that I had never thought about or heard. Now,

(28:38):
I'm not some special teams guru and texting people about
it because I really don't care. Bill Belichick equated the
new kickoff rule to golf. He believes you should have
done the same kickoff, but just move it back. Well
in golf up until the last fifteen to twenty years long.

(29:00):
Hitters hit it two hundred and seventy yards, a lot
of guys on the PGA Tour in the eighties and seventies.
Because of the equipment, we're hitting it drives two hundred
and fifty yards, So a part four there was four
hundred yards. If you hit it two fifty you got
another one hundred and fifty yards in. But if a
part four hundred and fifty yards are Rory McIlroy's playing it,
or Bryson d Chambau or Scotti Scheffler, they have a

(29:21):
flip wedgend. It's a different sport. So what they have
done to challenge players in the sport of golf is
they've elongated the course. They've pushed the teas back to
make instead of four hundred and ten yard part fours,
four hundred and ninety yard poart furs or five hundred
yard part fours where just a little more challenging given

(29:42):
the equipment and given how far these guys are hitting it.
And Bill essentially thinks this kickoff rule is stupid because
the everyone did it in the preseason. Why there were
no stakes, and he he thought that a lot of
coaches just went to the other coach like, no matter what,
don't kick it out of the end zone. Let's both
practice this and everyone when it was on board, But
in the regular season games, every single person will just

(30:04):
kick it through the end zone because it's not worth
And we've seen a couple. There was one in the
Niner game. There was one I forget the other game
that had happened. But I initially thought that, like go
up the middle, there'd be a lot of action. The
action's on the edges and if you can get a
close off block, you can get to the fifty pretty quickly.
And if that happens once a game, it is not
worth it. So are a lot of these teams just

(30:26):
going to kick it out of the end zone and
just basically wave the white flag to the thirty yard
line because that's what Bill Belichick thought they were going
to do. He wished, and I agree with this. Push
the ball back instead of kicking it off at the
thirty five, push it back fifteen yards. So it's basically
impossible to kick it out of the end zone, and
at best, your guy's going to get it to like

(30:48):
the goal line and have the old school returns. Now,
the pushback from Roger in the league is we're trying
to take out the collisions in this and like, we
don't want the concussions in that play and we want action.
But if everyone's just kicking out of the end zone
with a new kickoff rule, are we not gonna get
any action? Because I know this the forty nine ers,
who are for being a good team, their special teams

(31:11):
is historically just bad. They drafted a kicker last year
in the fourth round from Michigan with a big leg.
I'll promise to Kyle Shanahan's gonna say kick it is.
Their defense is good. Kick it out of the end
zone every play. And I think a lot of other
teams are gonna fall under that quickly because I said forever,
like the new kickoff rule is like, ah, this is
gonna be sweet. Well, why wouldn't you just put if

(31:32):
a ty game Tyreek Hill back there or Deebo Samuel
back there or whoever back there who's really good and explosive.
And Bill's like, yeah, the moment they do that, the
last thing you would ever do is kick it to
that guy. So I do wonder if this kickoff rule,
which was kind of exciting, I enjoyed watching it in
the preseason because everyone was actually just trying to follow

(31:55):
the rules and kick it in the little box. If
that stops happening, we're gonna get the same result as
previous years. Is gonna look different the moment they kick
it off, but at the end of the day, it's
just gonna start five years more, five yards more forward,
or I guess four if it used to started the
twenty if you kicked out of the Enzo the cutdowns.

(32:15):
Like most people when they first get hired in the NFL,
the one of your roles during training camp is to
be the turk, which I just call it that because
that's what they call it in Hard Knocks back in
two thousand and Basically, the majority of gms in the
NFL have done this role. The majority of scouts at
one point in time in their career have done this role,

(32:37):
and it sucks. Right now. It's a lot different than
when I was in the league because there were two
separate cutdowns. It was only eighty instead of ninety, and
then you went from like eighty to seventy and seventy
from fifty three. Now you essentially just go from ninety
to fifty three, and that's a lot of guys. So
some players have a pretty good idea I got no shot.

(32:59):
But it's a difficult moment for a lot of people. Now,
the good part is is like for all of us,
life is not about where you start. Where you start
and going through rough times. I've been fired a couple times.
I'm sure many people listening to this have been let
go from a job, have been part of a part
of a company that went belly up. Maybe you started

(33:21):
a company that went bankrupt. You got two options. Either
sulk about it or you realize the sun comes up
the next day and you keep swinging and you learn
from those situations. So a lot of guys that were
drafted over the last couple of years will be cut
on Tuesday. They will be added to the practice squad.

(33:43):
And the best part about the practice squad is one
it's eligible to basically everybody now and there are sixteen spots. Well,
the season has never been longer. They added a game,
and we know they're going to add another game. Is
that you are one step away from being active on
game day, even if you're on the practice squad. But
when you get cut, like when you get fired or

(34:03):
when you go belly up or when you go bankrupt,
you get to realize, like, what did I do wrong?
What do I need to improve at? How do I
get better? Because that team goes Listen, you're not gonna
make the fifty three. We want you on the practice squad.
You need to do a B and C to help
our team, and we need you to get better at
this that and if you show that we have a

(34:25):
lot of belief in you, We've invested a draft pick
for you. We think there's a spot for you with
this team. It could be week one if you're the
guard or linebacker whoever on the practice squad, that linebacker
breaks his arm that you know, uh, corner pulls a hammy,
all of a sudden he's out. Well, what happens. The

(34:46):
backup becomes a starter, The practice squad guy gets elevated
to the active roster, and boom, you're automatically playing on
special teams and you're a rolled ankle away in week
two from being on the field on defense or O.
So I would say it used to be a lot
more negative to be cut because when I was in

(35:06):
the league, the practice squad restrictions were really, really harsh.
And they were very punitive for young players who had
already played. So if you had already played, you were
like a seventh round pick on a bad team and
you had got a bunch of action in the regular season.
Your practic squad eligibility was gone last couple years. Jason
Peter's like forty one years old. He's been on practic squad.
So it's incredible you have your practice quad eligibility does

(35:29):
not run out. I'm sure there are some stipulations, but
not many of Jason Peters can be on practic squad.
So the opportunity to go on a practice squad, if
this team used a draft pick on you and invested
in you, I would work my ever loving ass off
because the difference of it's it's a big financial difference.
There's a big difference between making one hundred and sixty

(35:50):
grand and making a million dollars. But you are so
close and you're still, you know, in the fire. It's
not like you're removed from it. It's not like you're fired,
you're done, you got no shot. So I think it'll
be a big deal when you see the list of
all these guys getting cut, But it does not determine.

(36:10):
We see how many guys get cut in their first
or second year and go on to have long careers
eventually get a big contract. Happens all the time in
this league. Okay, a couple other NFL stories I saw today.
Jeremy Fowler on ESPN kind of went viral. In forty
nine or Land said that Trent Williams will not end

(36:30):
his holdout until they figure out his contract situation. Well, yeah, no, shit,
isn't that why he's been holding out? Like, how is
that news? He's holding out four more money and he
won't end the holdout until he gets more money. That's
literally what's going on. That's what he's been doing. I

(36:51):
love it when something like that said is like, oh
my god, he just said what's literally been happening for
the last thirty plus days. Now, pressure on the Niners.
Time to get this thing done. Time to get Trent
Williams taken care of, get him in camp. You got
no choice because you need him and he's got leverage.
But yeah, he wasn't just gonna show up because he

(37:12):
didn't want to take part in some practices. He wants
more money, and based on these other contracts, he deserves
more money. I think the Patriots man are just I
said this a couple of weeks ago, when Drake May
barely played in the first preseason game. You signed Jacoby Brissett,

(37:32):
who's thirty one years old, who's played in a lot
of regular season games. These your team's not gonna be
any good. He does not need preseason reps. It made
no sense to not give all the reps I get.
Plays Zappy a little bit, try to increase maybe get
his trade value, but playing obviously, Drake May and Milton
play your young guys. Let them get reps now, because

(37:55):
ideally they're not gonna have to play in the regular
season game for a while while you suck and Jacoby
is sacrificial lamp Well, Sunday football happened. I turned it
on a little late, and Drake May was already in
the game. Then they showed Jacoby Brissett and he's injured,
and I just went, what are these idiots doing? I

(38:16):
think the Patriots have no clue what's going on, honestly none.
Someone could have said, like, listen, Jacoby Brissette was signed
simply to be a placeholder for Drake May. He's gonna
get hurt more and likely in a regular season game
because our O line sucks. This is not some twenty
four year old bridge. This guy who's over thirty, who's

(38:37):
played a lot of football. Let's just wait till the
regular season to plan. And if our timing is a
little off, who cares for him to get hurt in
a preseason game and it might be nothing. What we'll
see is more information comes out. This feels like a
team that just has no direction. And if if he
is injured and they gotta throw Drake May out there,
who got some talent. I like Drake May, he might

(39:00):
get murdered because that offensive line is gonna be the
worst in the NFL. And luckily he can move. But
that was not the plan. The plan was to sit them,
and they execute that plan by paying ten million dollars
to a bridge quarterback. Then to get him hurt in
a meaningless game on Sunday Night football. It's kind of

(39:21):
an embarrassment, honestly. A lot of guys headed to PUP
right If you're not healthy right now and you go
to PUP, you've got a minimum miss the first month
of the season, so that can be a big block.
Some guys aren't as shocking as others. Like I saw
Nick Chubb going to going to pup, Well, yeah, his
leg got snapped about seven different directions. Guy, he's gonna

(39:42):
be ready for week one. Then there are the guys
that maybe tore acls or whatever early in the season.
Are you comfortable with where they're at because they got
to take a fifty three man spot. A lot of
hard conversations right now are happening in all these buildings
as they're kind of putting their roster together even though
they've known. But I need to go ahead from your doctor.
You gotta feel like talk to the player. And some

(40:04):
of these guys go on pump might not want to
go on pump. They think they're a little closer. But
maybe you feel more comfortable with the guy that's been
out there during training camp, and then you go give
that guy basically an extra month to keep rehabbing and
practicing to make the transition. But that's a huge conversation
going on right now, because if you put the guy there,
you can't bring him in week two, like it kind
of is set for a while. And then last but

(40:26):
not least, And this I was gonna say, this leads
into my spicy take. But this is separate from that
that the Ravens Joe Diasat I don't they'd call him
Joe d Their offensive line coach, passed away over the weekend,
and he had been with the Ravens since twenty seventeen.
He was seventy years old. Just in a vacuum. That's

(40:50):
just awful. I mean, losing anyone's life. It's seventy in
twenty twenty four. Like to me, seventy is kind of young.
Had an acute illness diagnosed over the summer. Clearly bad
stuff happened quick and he died. And I think that
can be a huge, huge, powerful moment in a bad way. One.

(41:14):
You can't replace your offensive line coach, right, that's that's irreplaceable.
It's going into week one. But this is a guy
that's been there since twenty seventeen. So all these offensive linemen,
the homegrown guys, all your offensive players from Lamar to
Mark Andrews, think how much time they have spent around
this human. I mean you could tell John Harbaugh, who

(41:35):
tried to keep a professionals pretty rattled by this, and
rightfully so did one overall take. I have just I
think the AFC North is not going to be as good.
And I think specifically looking at the Ravens, like you
lose your defensive coordinator, you elevate a guy who's never
called defensive plays, and then you have something like this
happened that this is a heavy thing that you carry

(41:58):
with you, Like this is someone that you your coaching staff,
your team, your front office. Like football buildings are not
that big. There are fifteen to twenty coaches, they're sixty
to sixty five players, training staff, equipment staff. Like everyone
knows each other intimately knows your wives, knows where you live,
like you just spend so much time together. This is hard, man.

(42:22):
And when I was with the Eagles my last year,
you know, Andy soon passed away at the in training
camp and he was working with a strangth coach. Everyone
in the staff knew him. It's just hard. It's something
that's hard for a team to shake. And I don't know, man,
I think this got a chance to just not derail

(42:45):
the Ravens season, but I already had him taking a
step back. I think this is hard to overcome. And
I'm just down on the AFC North in general. So
like hot take spicy take. I don't think the AFC
North is gonna be very good. I don't. Obviously, they
have really good players in the division, some of the
best players in the league in the division. But the Ravens,
we just talked about the Browns. I'm sorry. When that's

(43:07):
your quarterback situation, I'm out. I'm out. The reason that
they saved their season last year is Joe Flacco who
was listening to a fantasy podcast or like he had
one of the great fantasy Decembers last year. The Steelers situation,
I can't get behind it. The Bengals Jamar Chaseman holding out,
Joe Burrow can't practice four straight days. So this was

(43:30):
a division that we all viewed as the best division
in football coming into the season. Last year, three teams
made the playoffs. The Ravens were the one seed. The
Browns were really good. I mean, they won eleven games
with Flacco playing the majority of it, and the Steelers
were just their typical ten wins. Like it wouldn't shock
me if only one team makes the playoffs out of
this division. I guess you would have to lean with

(43:52):
the Ravens. But I'm telling you, man, it just feels weird.
This division feels weird. I don't even even think that's
really debatable at this point in time. Okay Middlecoff Mailbag

(44:14):
time at John Middlecoff at John Middlecoff is the Instagram
fire in those dms, get your question answer here on
the show. This preseason, the Giants quarterbacks did not throw
a touchdown for the mailbag Number one pick. You can't
tell me otherwise, John, I swear I would be hard

(44:37):
pressed to see the Giants being the number one overall pick.
I think there could be similarities to last year where
they're kind of competitive in some games when their quarterback
plays well, and probably draft somewhere between six and ten.
I think they are much more likely to be the
eighth pick than they are the second pick. They have

(44:57):
a good defense, maybe neighbor goes off in a couple
of games like I got him in that five to
six win range. I think the Patriots are gonna be horrendous.
I don't think the Panthers are gonna be that good.
I think the Giants. You're gonna have some moments, maybe
in the first month of the season where fans go, oh,

(45:19):
we're kind of competitive. Does come down to the quarterback.
I mean, if they're not gonna throw any touchdown passes,
you're screwed. But you guys won't be as bad as
people think. That would be my guess. Question for the mailbag,
what are your thoughts on the NFL changing the preseason
cut dates from two dates to one. Why was this

(45:42):
rule proposed and accepted? Having two cutdown dates benefited players
on the bubble because they had more time to sign
with a new team. Wasn't one huge cut day with
all the movement happening at one time. Now teams go
from ninety to fifty three at one time, make the
cut day more difficult the managed signing guys. Well, I

(46:03):
would disagree. I like this this way. It'd be harder
if you were a personnel guy watching the guys because
you have more players at once. But when you cut down,
I forget, was it ninety I mean eighty to seventy
and then seventy to fifty three. Those guys that got
cut in the initial cut down for the most part

(46:26):
like there was a reason they were getting cut early.
They weren't good enough, they weren't as good as the
other guys making the team, or I mean, you know,
continuing on to the last preseason game. So to me,
that group usually was pretty irrelevant. Obviously there are examples,
I'm sure, but I like it more. I like the
three preseason games more. I like this where you get

(46:49):
more time going into Week one, you get this whole
week off, and then you get another normal week leading
into Week one. I think it's easier on the teams.
Obviously they changed it because of the but they're never
going back, and they shouldn't go back, so I think
they're gonna have to figure it out when they inevitably
go to two preseason games. How to space out a

(47:11):
little bit so the league can, you know, kind of evaluate.
But talk to somebodies that are pro scouts, and they're
watching hundreds of guys, I mean, right in one hundred
reports a week, and some of the most of those
guys will be practice squad. But if you can find
five or six guys that you really like and pound

(47:32):
the table for if those are up positions a need
that maybe your team can claim. I mean, it's a
big time of year for that type stuff. Question for
the mailbag, hope I make it straight up. Who had
a better NFL career farv or Ben love the show.
Brett farv one three straight MVPs, three straight MVPs. Both

(47:56):
of them some issues off the field, But if we're
just fucking player, it ain't even close. And Ben's a
Hall of Famer. To me, Ben's a first ballot Hall
of Famer. Farv is I mean, one of the most
popular athletes of the nineties, one of the most famous

(48:17):
athletes of the nineties. Roethlisberger was never even viewed as
like one of the more popular quarterbacks in the league.
Manning and Brady were in a different world. And then
once Rogers kind of hit the ground running, like he
was viewed as a better player. So, and I'm not
this is not trying to be a criticism of band.
I loved him as a player. He was elite. Ben

(48:38):
in his prime was a badass. But this, it's like
comparing apples and oranges. Three straight MVPs. You know one
watching that documentary on Steve McNair on Netflix. If you
haven't seen it, go check it out. I'd forgotten about this,
not the story. I mean, I knew he was killed
one you watch the documentary in your real like this

(49:01):
girl did not kill him, Like no chance she killed them,
someone killed them both. The other thing, because Maria watches
so many of these murder shows, one takeaway I have
unless I never judge anyone's relationship. The only people that
know how things are going are the two people sleeping

(49:24):
in that bed every night together. But clearly a lot
of famous people over the years and just I mean,
they're not alone people that sleep around when you get older.
And Steve McNair, even a good buddy in this documentary,
said like he slept around a lot, And I think
when you do that, the older you get, you are
putting yourself in some compromise situations. And I've seen enough

(49:49):
murder mysteries that Maria's watching, all these different shows of
dudes losing their life because they're sleeping around. And you
start sleeping around, you don't know these people. You have
to be scree you get, especially as you get older,
you get involved with some younger women, you have no
fucking clue what they're doing. I have seen three or
four murder mysteries in twenty twenty four that had parallels

(50:12):
of this. And listen, I'm not wanting to tell you
how to live. I don't care. I do not you
do you I'm not one to pass moral judgments on
any human being, but like when I see these situations
of these guys, and I saw it. We watched the
show on this Fox executive that was sleeping around and

(50:34):
the ex boyfriend killed him. And in this McNair situation,
you just put yourself in arms away. Sad story though,
because his football, like the football stuff in that show,
You're like, God, this guy was good. I mean he
was big, he could move, he had a huge arm,
he was calm in the pocket, he was tough as nails.

(50:55):
What a baller. One of the great players. I don't
think we talk about it enough. Won an MVP using
my daughter's Instagram. Listen to you on the daily in
regard to your story about your dog in the er.
My wife works in one in Charleston. Recommend coming out,
beautiful city, world class golf, kew Island, love to come anyway.
She tells me stories all the time on the daily

(51:16):
of people dropping thousands and weekly ten thousand dollars on
their pets, and that her company, a national company, made
billions last year. It's a boom and market. You know
what's funny is I had a lot of people I
think some girlfriends and wives of people that were either
told about the rant and then listened to the rant,

(51:36):
came at me and said, it's not the Vet's fault.
I didn't blame the vet, like I don't go to
Safeway or Fries and get mad at the butcher that
the meat is expensive. They're not picking the price points.
All I said one is I wanted in on the business.
Like it's if you said, hey, John, the v R

(51:57):
that you went to, you give them a hundred grand
to give you a percentage. I would have that check
written yesterday. I mean it's one of the great businesses
I've ever seen. Obviously, the hospital business makes a ton too.
I think it's complicated because your pet that most human
beings are gonna do everything humanly possible a lot, like

(52:20):
a family member to keep alive, cannot speak. So when
you're giving these amounts, which are a lot, it's never
like I just went it was like twenty seven dollars.
I was just I had triple A com did nothing.
It was free. It's like pay my monthly deal, No
big deal, you go there. I had multiple people reach out,
like the independent ones, I mean making five to eight

(52:42):
million dollars a year. I mean they are cash cows
and rightfully sold my capitalism. I'm pro business here. It's
just you have no clue and you get this bill.
You know nothing about your animal can't speak and looks
like she's gonna live. I mean she's still we haven't
slept much in the last week. But I'm not blame
aim in the vets. I don't blame my doctor for

(53:03):
the for the hospital bill. He's not hospital administration. He's
not setting the prices. I've been a consistent listener for
the pod for a couple of years now, appreciate the content.
With Pete Carroll making his way back to SC I
was wondering if you ever got the chance to watch
ESPN thirty for thirty, the Trojan War documentary highlight documentary

(53:24):
highlighting the rise and collapse of the USC tenure. Also,
do you believe the NFL he's a lock for an
NFL Hall of Fame. I think Pete Carroll's a lock, yeah,
because part of it, which it's the NFL Hall of Fame.
But like I think USC cemented him. I mean he's
one of the best, think of the best coach in

(53:45):
the last twenty five years. Who comes to mind immediately, Belichick, Saban,
Andy Reid. I think Pete Carroll's right there, you know,
Urban Meyer, Kirby Smart, Pete Carroll. I mean, it's a shortlist,
and he's definitely on it now he's the only guy.
And I think Jim Harboss throwing his hat in the
ring now that he won the national championship, won in

(54:06):
college and pro. You know, I think part of I
I don't know if I've seen it or not. I
don't feel like I have, but I lived it, you know,
I lived it living being in college in that era
and then going to Fresno state that we recruited, Southern California,

(54:28):
So I mean I saw their dominance. But back then,
you know, it wasn't legal to cheat, and the stuff
that happened was just stupid. But Pete was legit. Pete
is legit. It's just kind of sad that, I mean,
it ends for everybody. So there's nothing really you can do.
Two questions. Why are the NFL players under contract allowed

(54:50):
to hold out? If this is now common practice in
the NFL, which it seems to be, why even sign
a lengthy, big money contract. What does players sitting out
to a team and team morale. Seems like Trent Williams
for the San Francisco is gonna miss some games. Well,
they're not allowed to hold out. Hassan Reddicks then fined
fifty k a day. Trent Williams has been fined every day.

(55:12):
I don't have the exact dates that they've missed, but
do the math. If you miss ten days, that's five
hundred grand. Well it's August twenty six. I'm recording this.
When did training camp start? July twenty fifth? So I mean,
are we talking one point five million dollars? Like they're
getting fined? Real money? And a fine is not gross income,

(55:38):
it's net income. So if you're making ten million dollars
and you know one point five, well you get tax
on the ten million dollars. So if you see six
million of it, you start doing the math. It gets
kind of complicated. Now with players like Ceedee Lamb, you
can waive it because they're on the rookie contract. Brandon
Ayuk Jamar Chase a little less complicated. I think we're

(56:00):
seeing holdouts at a much higher rate because the money
we're talking about, and all of us in a position
where it's like, hey, you are going to sell this operation, John,
this podcast operation for one hundred million dollars. Would you
risk doing something to screw that up if you could

(56:21):
avoid it? Of course not. It's like anyone listening, whatever
business you're in, if I told you you could sell
your business for if you're especially small or medium, signed
business for one hundred million dollars, guaranteed you would avoid
all disasters. Well, their disaster is like if I haven't
signed the contract yet and I'm a practice someone falls
into my leg, guess what happens in that contract? The

(56:43):
owner wipes his ass with it, I mean, gets ripped up,
gets shredded, no moss audios. Well it's it's all over.
It's not worth it. So I do understand where these
guys are coming from. Okay College buddy Nick Right had
a common on TV a few weeks ago about the
two hottest new teams people are getting behind this upcoming season,

(57:06):
the Texans and the Packers. He claimed that if history
has taught us anything, one of these teams won't succeed
this season, that is, make the playoffs. If you had
to bet only on one of these teams to get
back where they ended up last season, and make the playoffs.
Who would it be? I think one of my bets
that I've been circling is I had already kind of I.

(57:30):
I was played golf on Saturday, got home, had a
few cocktails, was watching Nevada play SMU. I felt a
little left out, and I had my second Tito's and watermelon,
like you know, a little cocktail mixer, and I was

(57:50):
like feeling good. So I was like, you know what,
I'll throw a little live bet on this. Nevada was
kicking their ass and my producer James text me, as
I mean, they're up nine or they're up eleven, it's
just cruise control, text me, did you cash out? The
moment he text SMU hit a play and we never
looked back. And I did not cash out at too.

(58:13):
I was going to turn two fifty into twenty six hundred,
and I was able to cash out at twenty one hundred.
I didn't do it, and then he texted immediately the
all time jinks. I've never experienced anything like that. But
I had already thought of taking that twenty five twenty
six hundred that I was gonna make, and I was
going to allocate it, and one of my bets was
gonna be. I was gonna put a one thousand on

(58:33):
bow Knick's Rookie of the Year. I was going to
put one thousand dollars or maybe maybe seven fifty on
something on the Saints to make the playoffs, and something
on the Houston Texans. You can get them right now
with DraftKings eight to one, eight to one to be
the number one overall seed. So I don't have that

(58:54):
money because it disappeared all time jinks. Nevada lost their
quarterback sucks, but still I was cruising to a victory
and I didn't place the bet yet because the money
didn't come into my account. It left. So I like
the Texans a lot, and I think the Packers like.
Their defense is always a question mark. This new coordinator

(59:16):
who's never been a coordinator in the NFL. I guess
a lot of credit for one year at Ohio State
being a co coordinator, Like I got news for you,
Ohio State's defense most of my life has been fucking awesome.
So it's like most people that go there to be
the coordinator succeed. Is it gonna work? I don't know.
I think their offense will be fine, but if their
defense sucks. Like you can have a great offense if

(59:37):
your defense is bad or below average, Like, it's pretty
easy to be the difference of like eleven and nine wins.
So I think the Texans. I think Texas can be
a number one seed. I love that Bet. Actually, good morning,
sitting here in Kansas City watching your pod. Have a
conversational topic for your mailbag or just for you, we'll

(59:59):
do it on the mailbag. This from Neil Brett Peach.
I'm neutral on him. He's had some hits in the draft,
but he has some big misses too. Is this normal
or is he riding the coattails of Andy and Mahomes.
I don't ever hear him mentioned in the same breath
of Howie Roseman or John Lynch. I put him in

(01:00:20):
that category. I honestly, Neil, you're insane to have reservations
about Brett Veach at this point. He traded tyreek Hill,
which was pretty crazy at the time. Even if you
don't want to give him that much credit for twenty nineteen, Okay,

(01:00:43):
I'll let you argue that. But these last two drafts
know on tyreek Hill. They trade him, they get Trent McDuffie,
who is one of the best DB's in the league,
as well as Korlowski's free up cap room to enable
themselves to invest Chris Jones, who's one of the best
defensive linemen in the league. Travis and Patrick Mahomes never

(01:01:05):
stopped talking about how great he is. They just signed
one of the best centers in the league, might be
the best center now that Kelsey's retired, and I'd say
he's been pretty awesome. I would say Veach has done
a pretty good job of building your roster, has done
a really good job. So I don't know how you'd

(01:01:25):
beat Luke warm on him your team. Most of my
life never sniffed a Super Bowl, and then he's helped
be a huge part of leading back to back Super Bowls,
let alone the one he was a GM of five
years ago. I have a hard time with that one.

(01:01:47):
You'd be like middle golf if you know him. I'm
just telling you here's another one. I'm a forester in
Michigan and I appreciate having your podcast. Why I listened
to cruising around. My wife and brother in law are vets.
With my brother in law being an emergency VET. It
makes about one hundred and sixty K a year after
Texas costs are so high because vets are in such

(01:02:09):
high demand. I'm not disputing the business model that this
is not one of those whack job media guys that
hates business like they got that fucking lane covered. This
was simply an eye opening experience of how much money
these things are making and how I would love to
be involved, and now too, you have no choice as
a consumer. Right, It's like insurance, Like I understand why

(01:02:35):
insurance exists, yet it's a business where I pay it.
I pay property insurance, I pay car insurance, I pay
insurance on every I mean a ton of things, right, health, insurance,
you name it. Well, they have no problem accepting my
monthly rate. Yet the moment I need something from them,
it's a pain in the ass. But I get the

(01:02:55):
business model. Who's a huge investor insurance companies guy named
Warren Buffett. Why credible businesses monthly revenue cash flow? That's
all I saw with this thing, And like I said, like,
what was I gonna say? They could have said it
was eighteen hundred. I paid and then we had to
go back and we got to go back again tomorrow.
We've already paid twenty eight hundred. Well what if that

(01:03:16):
was ten grand? What was I gonna say? No, they
got me by the balls. Like I said, it supplied
to mand. I'm not pushing back against the business model.
And I don't blame the vets. The vets we've dealt
with were great. It's like most doctors I deal with
are great. Then I get the bill it's just business.
But still get to complain about the prices. It's pretty high.

(01:03:37):
I do a lot of things in life, and that's
one of the just more eye opening bills in recent memory.
And like I said, the one great advantage is it's
a lot And I said this last week, it's a
little like a mechanic. If you don't know anything about cars,
there's nothing you can say to argue with these people.
You can go get a different quote if you want.
But unlike with the vet, Like what am I supposed

(01:03:58):
to get a different quote on my dog's survival and
they're like, yeah, she needs blood transfusion right now, you'd
be like, I'll I'll just see if the VET across
the across the highway has any openings. Well, it might
be life or death. I guess you get a different
quote but even then you still don't even know what
you're talking about. People think I'm like anti Iowa, not

(01:04:20):
anti Vets anything. I'm pro the business, live it out
here in Europe. Love the pod. It keeps me connected.
One of my favorite things you do is compare the
game time strategies to personal life strategies. You we football
and everyday life question. As a huge Bills fan, I

(01:04:42):
keep watching Buffalo come so close only to blow it
year after year. How do you see this happening before
Josh Allen bails on the team. He obviously elevating his
team in a lot of situations, and I imagine he
doesn't want to waste his prime years never quite going
all the way. Or do you see this coming At
Jim Kelly's story, you think he stays forever because the

(01:05:03):
city has adopted him so fully. What do you think
are the real obstacles? And the Bills can overcome a
championship without blowing it? Well, quarterbacks are kind of stuck, right,
think some recent famous guys that were traded. Rogers was
with the Packers from two thousand and what six or

(01:05:24):
five till twenty twenty two. Matt Stafford was there from
two thousand seven, two thousand and seven to twenty twenty one.
You know these guys and Rogers was having success. It
was agreement packers. But Stafford's a good example. You just
kind of stay because they keep paying you a lot

(01:05:44):
of money, and the market size doesn't determine whether your
team's good or bad. You're still a star if you're
a good player, and again you make a lot of money.
So we haven't seen many recent examples of quarterbacks kind
of going NBA player. Now, maybe that's inevitable. It doesn't
really feel like Josh's style. I think he's got a
pretty special thing in Buffalo. I think sometimes, you know,

(01:06:09):
I think the shitty part about sports is, you know,
you can have a lot of success, you can keep
going to the playoffs, but if you just can never
get over that hump, it's just hard to shake right,
and it just follows you forever. I mean, we talk about,
you know, in golf, guys that can never get over
the hump and win a major. We talk about it

(01:06:31):
in you know, Charles Barkley's like the greatest player to
never win a championship, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly. It's something
that becomes part of your story. But because in most
of our lives, right, if you're having the equivalent of
that much success, you're doing so well. It doesn't like, Okay,
one company makes a little more than you, who cares?
I'm making so much money. It gets to the point

(01:06:51):
where it's not really about the money or the fame.
It just all gets down to like, can you win
that last playoff game? Can you get to that AFC championship?
Can you get to that super Bowl? And there's no guarantee,
there is zero guarantee of it ever happening. So we
might have passed Buffalo shot. Right, they might be average
for the next couple year. I don't agree with that, Like,

(01:07:12):
I think they're gonna be fine this year. But if
you tell me that they go nine to eight, miss
the playoffs, not inconceivable. And then all of a sudden
like did you miss your window? Which is it happens
in football all the time. Back to the Steve McNair documentary,
Like the Titans had really good teams there for like
three years, they went to a super Bowl, they got
to the one yard line, they went to the AFC
Championship again, they lost the Raiders. It's like they were

(01:07:32):
so close and then it just didn't happen. So sometimes
you get there and you just rattle off a couple.
Sometimes you just get there once, you win it right,
Sometimes like the Giants out of Nowhere twice. Sometimes you
just never win it. You know. It's what it feels
like to be a Buffalo fan. He goes, are we
just cursed? Minnesota Vikings fan? Like, are we ever gonna

(01:07:53):
make it? I can't tell you there's a guarantee. I
would bet when you have one of the best players.
I like chances. So if you just look at it
like a statistical you know, coin flip, like, what is
my percentage chance? Well, we know you need an excellent
quarterback to have a shot. In the history of the league,
there are some outliers that had great defenses the eighty

(01:08:14):
five Bears two thousand, Ravens two thousand and two, Tampa right,
But for the most part, you need a Hall of
Fame worthy guy playing at a really high level. Where
a really good player gets super hot at the right time.
You got one of the best players of his generation.
So it's on the roster management, it's on hitting on
these draft picks, it's on him staying healthy. But I'd

(01:08:39):
like my chances if I were you. Question for you,
if we see Kyler and Marvin Harrison can't connect and
put points on the board on a consistent basis, what
do you see the next step for the Cardinal offense
to become more of a threat for the rest of
the division. Well, they got three really fantastic players, right Kyler,

(01:09:02):
Trey McBride, and Marvin Harrison. I still believe there are
a couple of years away from building this roster. I mean,
the defense is not gonna be good, but if they can,
if they can find a second receiver to go with Marvin,
like with Kyler, it makes the running game way easier
because he's a threat any zone read stuff. I just

(01:09:26):
think you have to have balance, Like it can't all
beyond March, Like, they just have to find a number
two wide receiver. And that number two wide receiver doesn't
need to be like t Higgins and Jamar Chase or
Brandon a YOUU can Debo just needs to be a
credible guy. And if you can find that, then all
of a sudden, you take some pressure off Marvin. If
you have a good tight end, Like it's hard to

(01:09:46):
double team them because your safety's got a cheat to
the wide receivers and your quarterback can take off at
any moment. So I just think that I think you're
obviously going to be pretty interesting, to be honest with you.
Who's your running back? James Carnis, sure you're running back

(01:10:08):
teams James Connor on right now? He's on the Cardinals.
I like James Connor. James Connors is a good player.
So you got James Connor who had a thousand yards
seven touchdowns last year. You got Kyler, you got Marvin Harrison,
got training pride like you got some you got some
building block skill. Guys. I don't know if James Connor

(01:10:32):
is a building block, but he's you know, how old
is he right now? Twenty nine? He's just a really
good player, really solid player. You feel good about him.
I think Cardinals are a fun watch, I really do.
Who would you rather have a linebacker? Patrick Willis or
Fred Warner?

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Come on?

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
I like Fred, but different. There's levels of this stuff. Hey, John,
question for the mailbag. Do you think it's more likely
the Cowboys missed the playoffs this year or make the
NFC Championship? Well, I mean if you're just based on
the last twenty five years, you have ever say, missed
the playoffs because they never go to the NFC Championship game.

(01:11:16):
I think they're gonna go to an NFC Championship game inevitably.
I think it's gonna happen. One issue, and we talked
about this, was stucky. The NFC is as good, if
not better than the AFC. The Chiefs best team in
the league, back to back Super Bowl champs. Let's look
at the rest of the depth. The Bills lost a
bunch of guys. The Jets we have Noe, it's Robert

(01:11:37):
Solad any good Chargers rosters, pretty decimated, Broncos starting a
rookie quarterback. AFC North all sorts of issues. AFC South
actually pretty good. But I went from like kinda wan
and picked the Colts to win the division. And I
still like them. But when you watch it the Origins

(01:11:57):
in the preseason, just's in with talent ease in which
he throws the hunter mine. Our fastball doesn't always know
where it's gonna go. So it's like, wait, I'm gonna
bet on this guy who's just not gonna be accurate
this year. Maybe he becomes more accurate. It's not happening
to right off the bat when I just have this
pocket quarterback who knows how to play. As a loaded team, yeah,

(01:12:18):
I'll just go with the Texans, Chiefs Texans again. I
think the Ravens step back Bill's Jets. I think the
NFC is just loaded Niners, Rams, Packers, Lions. I think
a couple teams in the NFC South. I mean, the
Bucks have made the playoffs four straight years. The Saints

(01:12:39):
won nine games last year, and I think are gonna
be good. The Falcons have everyone picking them, The Eagles,
the Cowboys, you could argue the Bears. I mean, it's
just NFC's tough. So I think it's a long winded
way of saying I guess I would have to pick
on them miss the playoffs, But I'm not one of

(01:13:01):
those people that say it's never gonna happen. Now to
my question, this is from Jonathan how big is the
influence of an offensive coordinator in a system of a
strong offensive play calling head coach like Sean McVay. When
having a head coach like that, does the offensive coordinator
really matter that much? Or is he effectively just a

(01:13:23):
glorified assistant. Some people make a big deal of losing
an OC, but does it really hurt these head coaches
or do they just have it covered anyways, Well, where
it hurts them is like, ultimately Kyle is the one
the decision maker, Sean McVay or Andy Reider, Sean Payton
on the guy deciding the play right Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

(01:13:47):
When they give the game plan to the players, they
have given the final go ahead on the play. But
throughout the game plan those assistant coaches. One guy's in
charge of third and long, guy in charge of goal
line situations, one guy's in charge of early down stuff.
And then the more you're around those guys, the more

(01:14:08):
you're confident when they give you stuff and you meet
for the game plan and throughout the week of like
gouds a genius idea. So anytime you lose talented people,
they're not the ones calling the plays or giving the
final go ahead on the game plan. That's the coordinator.
But it's like if you're the boss of a company
and you lose some really good employees, Ultimately you might

(01:14:31):
be the driver of the operation, but their influence is
hard to replace. So yeah, it just depends it's hard
to quantify, and I would say only people internally really know, right,
like how much Mike McDonald meant to Kyle, or how
much Clint Kubiak meant to Kyle, or how much Kevin
O'Connell meant to Sean McVay. I don't know. I can't

(01:14:54):
quantify it. But if you trust someone to do certain things,
take stuff off your plate. And even as these coaches,
I've heard them talk during the preseason, like Kyle and
Schawn because both of them gave up play calling for
the preseason. They said, it's definitely weird to not call plays.
But the reality is during the season, I'm influenced by

(01:15:18):
play calls by my assistance. Now, the more you trust someone,
the more you're gonna let them chime in right or
let their suggestion become a decision. But it's impossible to quantify.
I guess it's a long winded way of saying it
doesn't mean nothing, but it doesn't mean something in every

(01:15:40):
situation be different. They're more than glorified assistance for sure,
because what they're doing on a weekly basis is really important.
Because the head coach, like I can't break down every situation.
I don't have the same time as those guys because
I got to meet with my defensive staff, I gotta
meet with the media. I got a lot of other stuff,
you know, a lot of other irons in the fire

(01:16:02):
I gotta take care of. So I'm very, very dependent
on my group of offensive coaches, my line coach with
the run game, my pass game coordinator, my quarterback coach
to help me build the game plan. I mean, it's
a it's a group effort, even though I'm the CEO.

Speaker 6 (01:16:18):
Of that group.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
I guess that's a long winded way of hopefully I
describe that to you. So like when these guys leave,
you know, I don't know, you can feel it, like
if the Texans going to have a great year, number
one seed nf AFC Championship game, Bobby Slowak becomes a
head coach, It's very like, we know, if I'm de Miko,
I gotta get a new OC, right like that. It's

(01:16:40):
not that's not an unquantifiable loss. But when these guys
lose their position coaches that are their quote unquote OC,
but they're not Colin plays. I would imagine if you
had a buddy on the staff. Some guys are like yeah,
not that big a deal. Won't even notice, and others
would be like, yeah, he was pretty important, like any industry,

(01:17:03):
some people in management positions that aren't or middle management
that's essentially what that is, are more impactful than others.
A lot of average, a lot of ravage. Okay, thanks
for listening to everybody, Talk to everyone soon, See you
guys tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
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