3 & Out - Dak Prescott & Dallas Cowboys UPSET by Arizona Cardinals on MNF - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing?
Just watch the Arizona Cardinals led by Jacoby Brissett who

(00:24):
Wali Pip Kyler Murray dominate the Cowboys, so big win
for the Cardinals. Cowboys look terrible. Jerry Jones and Stephen A.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Smith. The YouTube TV debacle.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Your boy had to scramble last minute, but I was
able to uh got my wife's Hulu account.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Then I had to upgrade it.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
But we'll talk about that as well as you know
Howie Roseman, John Schneider, some gms are cooking right now
and we've got the trade deadline as well as a
mail bag at John middlecoff is the Instagram handle. Make
sure you fire in those dms. We have a long
mail bag on today as well as a couple more
coming out this week. And yeah, you guys know the drill.

(01:05):
Subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen, if you listen
on Collins Feed, subscribe to the YouTube channel. Never miss
a thing coming live after every game. And a huge
reason we can do that is because you guys have
been very loyal listeners and loyal viewers for a long time.
Now that you know part of the reason I went

(01:27):
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(01:49):
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(02:31):
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as we you know, it's not the home stretch because
we still got two plus months and then the playoffs.
We had a long way to go, or not even
like to the dog days. I mean, hell, I don't

(02:53):
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Speaker 2 (03:23):
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So let's just let's dive right in again. I am

(03:47):
really really fired up to have these guys on board,
and none of this can happen without you guys, just
like none of tonight could have happened without Jacoby Brissett.
I think we need to call a spade a spade.
Lot of mystery surrounding this situation. A tweet from several
days ago from our main man Schefty, who says Jacoby's

(04:09):
gonna start, Kyler will be available for some plays, and
then it comes out today Kyler's in street closed.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
So he's not available.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
And then Jacoby goes out twenty one to thirty one,
a couple touchdowns, well over two hundred yards, and it's
just objectively a better quarterback right now than Kyler Berry.
But sometimes at.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
This you know, the cat's out of the bag.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
We used to like, what's he alluding to? These broadcasters
talk to the coaches. It's why it's such a big
deal on Tom Brady not having direct access, though it's
very easy. All these guys, the offensive coordinators, the defensive coordinators,
the head coaches want to talk to him so he
can get information, and obviously the players too. But when
Troy Aikman opened up the broadcast and said, you know,

(04:56):
the offensive coordinator says that he he feels really the
comfortable with Jacoby being able to go under center, something
he likes doing, aka something Kyler does not like doing
and doesn't fit in this office. This is why I
have been a proponent of hire or keeping Brian day Ball,
because anytime it comes to taking a job, you'll be

(05:20):
becoming a head coach in the NFL or in college football.
College football is a little different because you're constantly turning
over your roster. But when Jonathan Gannon got the job,
I bet all he said is I can't wait to
coach Kyler. Can't wait to coach Kyler. I'll do whatever
it takes to coach Kyler. His offensive coordinator saying the
same things that they've had enough. And I don't blame
them for saying that, and I don't blame them for
trying to figure this out.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
With Kyler Burray.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
This experiment hasn't worked because one thing's pretty evident. And listen,
the Cowboys roster isn't that great, but relative to the Cardinals,
there's a big gap between the two if you just
remove the quarterbacks, because typically Dak is a better player
than Kyler. But if Jacoby is going to play at
Dak's level or like tonight, out play him. So if

(06:02):
you just go the quarterbacks, cancel each other out or anything,
advantage for the Cardinals. They're better everywhere else. I mean
comparing defensive lines tonight, not even close. Sweat was all
over Dak all night long. Walter Nolan made his debut.
I probably gonna be a pretty good player. Obviously, Kaleis Campbell,

(06:24):
legendary guy, was making plays at the end of the game.
They got Collins, the former stand up linebacker who they've
kind of put much more on the line and is now.
He had awesome pass rush tonight. Obviously, guys like Buddha Baker,
Trey McBride who has come alive whenever you draft a
player high right. And I remember a buddy in the

(06:46):
NFL told me when I was like, who do you
think Monte's gonna draft. Is he gonna take Marvin or
is he gonna take Malik Neighbors because they were taking
a wide receiver. And he's like, this was a couple
months before the draft, so probably near right around free agency,
so the combine had already taken place. He's like, he's
one hundred percent taking Marvin Harrison because it's the safer pick.

(07:09):
A lot of people thought if you went throughout the NFL,
Malik Neighbors from a talent standpoint, explosion standpoint, his ceiling's.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Higher than Marvin.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
But there was some risks there, right, He's just was
a little bit more of a wild card. And he
the guy that described it to me, was like, Moni's
not coloring outside the lines here. He's gonna try to
hit a double, but when you try to hit a double,
there's no such thing in the NFL. So through the
first like year, it's like, what is going on? I
saw headlining today of Marvin Harrison's senior talking a bunch

(07:40):
of crap about the offense. Well, maybe it's not the offense.
Maybe it was the quarterback, which Kyler and Marvin clearly
have no rapport. Jacoby comes in Trey McBride still looks fantastic,
but who starts eating Marvin Harrison. Career night twenty catches No.
Seven and this is whatever. He's been in the league

(08:03):
a year and a half. His career high for catches
is seven and that happened to night with Jacoby Brissett.
So the Kyler Murray experiment, to me is over. I
don't know if it'll be a hard or soft benching,
but I think as long as Jacoby Brissett is healthy,
he will continue to start for the Arizona Cardinals. And

(08:23):
I saw a lot of people, you know I, by
the time you're listening to this, he's not going to
get traded. No one's trading for that contract. But I
don't even think anyone has the cap space. But even
this offseason, and I'm no capologist, I'd have to get
Roseman or one of those type guys on the phone
to even begin to understand how this truly all works,
like cap hits, how they translate when they're traded, the

(08:46):
dead cap acceleration, all that stuff. I don't pretend to
be an expert, but I do know his numbers are
really large, and I also know that his production is
not very large anymore. And let's face it, one thing
that's evident tonight. It's easy for Jaib to see and
I think and listen, Kyler is an exceptional athlete, an
exceptional talent. I mean, huge arm, can throw bombs, has

(09:10):
a strong arm, but accuracy and just overall ability to
see from within the pocket is difficult. When you're five
foot nine and you watch the night in Jacoby is
just a big guy sitting there can see everything. And
then obviously he's delivering the ball pretty well. So when
you look at the two guys, if you put Kyler

(09:30):
Murray's physical traits in Jacoby, you probably have top five player.
But that's not how it works. But I do know this,
when you're coaching for your job and there's desperation, you're
gonna go with what's working. This guy's already been paid
the money and it hasn't worked out. But I also
think when you look ahead to the offseason, I believe
it's more likely that Kyler Murray would be cut this

(09:53):
offseason then someone would facilitate a trade given his cap number.
Because to me, Kyler Murray's like a fifteen to twenty
million dollar quarterback, not a guy making the type money
he's making. If he was cut tomorrow and was a
free agent or you know, a free agent going into
March fifteenth, what type contract would he get. My guess

(10:14):
would be a one year deal. So I think, especially
like this type stuff is not good for your market.
It is not good for your branding of being this
very very talented player. Being talented. That type lingo works
when you're Caleb Williams in year two. It's like, yeah,
I gotta figure out this talent and become a good player.

(10:37):
It's much harder when you've been in the NFL for
as long as Kyler has. So I think, listen, we
all operate at different speeds. Not everyone is Andrew Luck
ready to go from the jump, but we've had long
enough to know I've watched enough football to go. Jacoby
just Wally pipped him. So don't ever expect to see Kyler,

(10:57):
at least in the near future. I don't know how
they propaganda, you know, throw out their angle and spin
to this, because listen, you're sensitive. You don't want to
look like your crushing players like coaches and gms in
twenty twenty five are very sensitive to that. And I
understand and I think they tried to almost like a

(11:21):
trial balloon. They had Chefter throw it out there. It's
like then he backed it up. Now it's over. But
like I said, I don't think this was an upset tonight.
I look, if the Cardinals are going to get good
quarterback play, they're better than Dallas. They're winning this game
in Dallas, in Arizona on a neutral field like seven
or eight times out of ten. They are much more talented.

(11:44):
Stucky and I have been talking about this. They're three
or four plays away from having a completely reversed record.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
They easily could.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Be five and two. Eat your five and three or
six and two.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
They have been in all these games, and tonight was
the first time that they controlled it from the jump
beside the Titans game, which they blew. But they didn't
blow this thing because ultimately Dallas wasn't that good. And listen,
I think we have to acknowledge one the NFC East
is in shambles. Right. You got the Philadelphia Eagles who
are just making trades every day and are gonna win

(12:17):
twelve to fourteen games and win this division by potentially
five or six games. I mean, is there a chance
that another team in the NFC East doesn't get to
eight wins. Right to me, Dallas best cases eight. But
you watch tonight, all of a sudden, that defense like
they're an injury away.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
It can be six and eleven.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Because your offense is just gonna dominate every game and
their defense is horrendous. The Commanders are done. Put a
FOURK in them, and obviously the Giants have been done.
So there's a chance that the second best record in
this division is seven and ten, maybe a four win
team and maybe a six win team. So the Eagles

(12:59):
no longer even need to think about Washington or Dallas,
don't even need to, like part of their consciousness. They
are completely focused now on Rams, Seattle forty nine ers,
obviously the NFC North teams, and the Buccaneers.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
That's all that matters now.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Their division is completely irrelevant, which is crazy out. I mean,
it's November third. It's one thing if this middle of December.
It's November third, and I think Dallas, honestly, nothing summed
up the Cowboys more than the beginning of this game.
I will dive into the YouTube TV situation here in

(13:39):
a second, but once I figured out how to get
the game on my television. I'm probably thirty minutes before kickoff,
and Jerry is just strutting around taking selfies with people,
just yucking it up. I mean, I respect that as
someone who can be pretty introverted and want no part

(13:59):
of just to people. It feels like Jerry is in
that mode twenty four to seven, three sixty five. You know,
it's pretty easy to see why Jerry is such a
good salesman. Like this guy's in his mid eighties. He
like has unlimited money, and that the juice he gets
when he walks like that stage is his, which is

(14:19):
also a problem, right, because it's one thing.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Listen, if your owner has got a big ego.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
You know, Doctor Bush used to bang chicks with the
players in the training room, like owners do crazy stuff.
I got no issue with Jerry trying to be the
center of attention. He just also happens to be the
general manager, right, So it's like that'd be like the
equivalent of less Need or Howie Roseman or Brian Gudikin's
or John Lynch. Like Jerry's acting like an actor slash owner,

(14:49):
but he also is the guy running the football operation, which.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Is kind of crazy. And then they show the.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Clip of him sitting with steven A, which is hilarious
because it comes right as Ferguson fumbles and Jerry's like,
you know, just crestfallen and it looks like steven A's
biting his lip trying not to laugh in the suite.
It's like, this is the cowboys that that environment? Will
we hear this a lot with these college jobs, Like

(15:17):
a lot of chefs in those kitchens. Man got a
lot of hands in the cookie jar. You got a
lot of people with a lot of voices, a lot
of dudes sitting on these committees with a lot of opinions.
It's like, it's hard to win in those situations, right,
it's the best one. A streamline like Kirby Smart deals
with the ad the president, that's it. Nick Saban dealt
with nobody, you know Howie Roseman streamline.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
Right to right to Jeffrey Lurie.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Right, you got Jerry, Like all these players know that,
Like their coaching staff, like how much juice do they
actually have? And I think the answer is like not
that much. Do they really like Brian Schottenheimer? Do I
really need to listen to him? And I think that
can be difficult, and you just kind of got the
shit show in Dallas. You got Jerry making a comment

(16:07):
before the game of like, I have a trade ready
to go in my back pocket.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Who talks like that, Well, Jerry does you know what? That's?
Jerry's talking like he talks.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
And most people that are the GM are hesitant to
say certain things because at the end of the day,
they're not signing the checks that they don't own the buildings.
They could get fired at any moment, and they don't
want to piss people off in their industry, their owner,
their team. They're just very, very cautious. There's no caution

(16:39):
with Jerry. It's why he's such a great SoundBite. It's
why everyone runs right to him and listen. It's not
Dak didn't play that well tonight. The receivers felt like
they were lollygagging it every other route. Obviously, the fumbles,
the turnovers. The offensive line was getting just warked. It
felt like every night, one of the or every single snap,
one of those different you know Tyler's on their offensive

(17:02):
line was getting spun like a dradal and one of
the dudes in red was all over Dak. Obviously defensively
they don't have much if anything. I mean, it's it's
pretty embarrassing. If they don't hit on a blitz, someone's
getting open and someone's getting open fast. So my expectations
on Dallas if their offense isn't humming, is they're gonna
lose every game that they're going to lose. If you

(17:23):
tell me the Dallas Cowboys score points in the teams,
it's an automatic loss. It'd be like, Hey, the Cincinnati
Bengals scored twenty five points. I'd be like, automatic loss.
They lose one hundred percent of the games, and that's
the Cowboys. But I just think there's so much going on.
It's where like one thing is sometimes on Dak's out routes,

(17:46):
like this is in a dome. There's no wind, there's
no inclement weather. It's not cold. It's not like you know,
you're blowing on your fingertips to warm them up. The
weather's ideal, like you control the climate with the air
conditioning and his balls and some of the deep out
routes would kind of float. It's like, you know, you

(18:06):
see some of the limitations with Dak's arm, it's a
little floating. I think there was one fourth down that
had a play broken up by Ceedee Lamb, and Troy
kind of came to the defense of Dak. He's like,
you know something something made him hesitant, almost like CD
didn't come out of the route with any urgency. It's like, okay,
there's probably some truth to that, but also the ball

(18:27):
just hung up in the air for an extra couple
seconds that it just wouldn't with the guys with higher
end armstring. I mean, Jacoby Bresseatt has a better arm
than Dak, Prescott, Kyler Murray could throw his eyes closed
backwards and had get more velocity on it. So sometimes
that limitation is why, like why has Dak thrown some
huge interceptions in some big games he throws if the

(18:47):
ball's not accurate, like his ball's easier to catch than
Josh Allen's.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Right, it just is.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
But I would not recommend Jerry does any trades, if anything,
trade players away for more picks and look for the
next couple of years, because this team is going nowhere,
and it's going nowhere fast. So congrats to the Cardinals,
big win for Jacoby, and congrats on the starting gig
that I'm unofficially anointing you as a starter of the

(19:15):
rest of the season. Last, but not least, on this game.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
I have not.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Followed the details of this story at all, simply because
I do not care. I'm not going to get into
the weeds about Disney and Google whatever they're arguing about. Right,
obviously both have a lot of juice. I'm probably more
I don't do that much with Disney besides consume the
games that they have, right, Obviously that'll change as I

(19:41):
have a child. I'm sure we'll watch more Disney content.
I'm more of a Google guy, Gmail, very loyal YouTube
TV guy. But I just I don't want to overthink this.
And I've always defended some of these networks like NBC
for example, NBC is not going to be around if

(20:01):
Peacock doesn't work. All these people need streamers, So it
makes us bad when it's like, hey, you gotta get
Amazon Prime if you want to watch the NBA. It's like, yeah,
do you don't have Amazon Prime? Like do you not
have Amazon Because if you don't, I probably don't have
much in common with you if you don't have Amazon Prime,
unless you live out in rural BFY. But like most

(20:24):
people I know in my life have access to Amazon Prime.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
But tonight I.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Thought, this is the first time where I went I listen.
I'm not sticking up for one side or the other,
but just get the fucking job done. Because I had
no choice, like I have to do this for work.
And I'm kind of freaking out because over the weekend
I was able to watch the college games because I
have ESPN Plus, which I'm a loyal subscriber of because

(20:49):
they have a bunch of golf content. I can watch
golf tournaments throughout the year on Thursday and Friday at
my desk in the background on ESPN Plus. So that's
just why I have it, and I was able to
watch Oklahoma ten We'll see in Texas and Vanderbilt through that. Well,
then I went to it tonight and it was like
not working. I'm like, I don't think I'm gonna be
able to watch Monday night football on ESPN Plus.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
So what are my options?

Speaker 1 (21:10):
Well, Hulu and my wife loves Hulu because they have
a million shows of people getting murdered. I'm like, Maria,
are we sure it's healthy to watch all these shows
about serial killers and murderers. She can't watch a show
about like, you know, a saving Private Ryan or whatever.
She'd be like, turn it off, Like, Marie, you just
watched someone decapitate seven people and spread their heads throughout

(21:34):
three different states and you can't watch, you know, bio
pick on.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
World War Two. But it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Women love these serial killer shows. Not for me. I
don't want to see these cycle paths. But my point
is I knew we had Hulu, so I was like, Okay,
they have, but we didn't have the right subscriptions, so
we had to go sign in, we had to upgrade
the subscription. It's like, this is kind of ridiculous, and
the only thing that can make or create any type

(22:02):
urgency in these type situations is sports, because nothing else
is gonna drive us to like whatever, Like no one's
missing any shows, but as Monday night football in some
of these big college football games, it would be a problem,
you know. And I'm not traveling this year because of
the baby, but if I was at my mom's house,

(22:23):
like I don't even know what we would do. So
it was the first time where I went this just sucks.
And this is the type thing that I cut cable
years ago because clearly there were better options than other things.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
But there is no disputing.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Once upon a time, even if some people were kind
of getting rat fucked on the cable bundle because they
didn't watch sports and they were subsidizing people like us
watching these games, it was a lot easier as a
viewing experience. We all got whatever the local company was,
We all got all the channels. There weren't ever disputes

(22:59):
and the games unless a hurricane or a tornado or
something that knocked the power out, if your power was on,
you just had cable TV and you would just get
the channels. And obviously those days are long gone and
we are never going back. And I'm not a proponent
of like I wish we could reverse here.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
I'm all forward, moving forward.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Especially with technology, but a situations like this that went
I kind of missed twenty twelve. It's just an easier
time to be alive when it came to watching Monday
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New Whe's the Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia. I do want to
dive into one guy that is just zoned in right now,

(25:16):
and that would be Howie Roseman. This guy, there's just
no one like him in the NFL. I tried to
figure out how many trades he has made this calendar year,
but he had made so many different transactions I couldn't
even keep track. But just to give you an example
of Howie Roseman in twenty twenty five, he just traded

(25:36):
today for Jalen Phillips. Gave up a third rounder, the
pass rusher from from Miami that Fangio had worked with
a couple of years ago, and I think he had
like six and a half or seven sacks that year.
Obviously VIC would would be on board with it, but
the Eagles need pass rush. They just convinced Brandon Graham
to come out of retirement. They trade for him. How

(25:58):
he treats football like GM's treat baseball teams right, Most
gms in the NFL do not operate this way.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
Now.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Is it because their coaches aren't huge believers in constant change?
Is it because they don't have the kahonus? Is it
because their owner limits their ability to trade assets? I
don't know, But Howie, who has more juice than any
other GM in the entire NFL, is constantly trading and

(26:30):
upgrading his team, and if you're a fan, you can't
ask for anything more. They signed in.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
In March this year during free agency.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
A couple days after the start, they signed tight end
Harrison Bryant. In August, they trade Bryant to the Houston
Texans for John Metchi. Earlier last week they traded Mechi
for Carter the dB from the Jets that Joe Douglass
once drafted, on top of trading for Jay Xander all

(27:01):
last week, and then today they trade for Jalen Phillips.
He is just constantly making moves. It is never tolerated
like we're good.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
They do not think like that, how can we upgrade?
What do we have to do?

Speaker 1 (27:14):
And they're just coming off a Super Bowl. It would
be easy to be like, oh, it might not be
our year we're already paying a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Let's just see what happens.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
And this gets back to the expectation and the standard
that's set by the owner because he's the one that
green lights all of this. So when you see a
lot of these other teams unwilling to ever do anything
or not making moves when they should, it's an organizational
philosophy and how he has been empowered. And here's the

(27:44):
other thing, how he doesn't have to. He has to
work with the coaching staff, right obviously like Nick and
the coordinators, but the end of the day, he's the
boss when it comes to the roster. That is not
the case for most of these teams like John Lynch
just can't do that right less sneed just can't do that,
especially in the middle of the season if their coaches

(28:06):
say no, I'm not really feeling that it's not gonna happen,
even if it would be the right move. Because personnel
people aren't as emotional about stuff, they're actually not as close.
Even though, especially when you work in the office, you're
there on the daily grind, you're there early, they're staying
late at practice in the cafeteria with everybody, you're just

(28:27):
you're helping work in hand in hand with everybody during
the season, but there is because you're not on a
daily basis in the meeting rooms. There is almost a
detachment from the players. That can be healthy and help
you see the big picture.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
Where's heart.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
If you're a position coach, your relationship with an individual
is just different, and sometimes they can be too close
to the sun to go, yeah, we should probably cut
this guy, or this guy isn't good enough, this is
not gonna work out, because that is always being asked
in Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
And think about this.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
When you watch Jerry Jones today roaming around that sideline
twenty minutes before the game, taking selfies, hanging out with
Steven A.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Smith. That's there. How he roseman?

Speaker 1 (29:07):
So how is Jerry Jones? Who's a great businessman. And
I'm sure if you want, you know, to strike oil
and get some of those those things in the ground
and have one of those bad boys hits, you would
want Jerry to be the guy. But if I'm building
a football team, if I'm making moves, I mean, We've
talked about.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
This for the last couple of years with Jerry.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
It's like, Jerry, remember a couple of years ago, he's like,
we're just we're gonna make a big move and then
nothing happened. So he's competing against Howie Roseman. That's his competition.
Like there, it's think of the advantage Jeffrey Lewy has.
He's not doing any of that yet that Jerry has
to sign off on everything because he's the general manager
and he's adamant. I'm never giving that up. Think of

(29:51):
the disadvantage The Cowboys are at that. Ever since Jeffrey
Lury has inserted Howie in the full power once he
kicked Chip Kelly to the curb, they've been to three
Super Bowls one two of them and have a team
that's going to be right back in the mix in
twenty twenty five and definitely beyond because that's how they operate,

(30:11):
and the Cowboys just never quite know what to do.
A couple of years ago, they're given CD and DAK
unlimited money. This year they trade Micah Parsons And I'm
not against any of these moves in a vacuum. I
think they gave DAK a little too much money, but regardless,
I just don't think they view the team building prospect
or process and just the philosophical belief and the ability

(30:37):
to adapt and always be changing. The Eagles have such
a big advantage, such a big advantage.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
I see it right now.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Fifteen years ago the San Fransco Giants were about to
rattle off three out of five World Series, and fifteen
years later they don't have a snowballs chance in hell
because they're fucking with the Dodgers. I love Buster Posey,
he's one of my favorite players. Ever, how is he
supposed to pete.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
With Andrew Friedman in that bankroll?

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Hint, he can't.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
It's not a fair fight.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Just like the Cowboys versus the Eagles in twenty twenty
seven Dash present. It's just not a fair fight. And
it starts with Howie speaking of another guy. It's just
pretty dialed. I was thinking about this today actually, before we.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Dive into John Schneider.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
I do need to tell you really quick about my friends,
because listen, do you want to go to one of
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(32:08):
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(32:29):
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Speaker 2 (32:30):
Swipe tap ticket. Download the game Time app today.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
I was thinking watching that game last night which I
knew that the dan Quinn left him in the game
too long was gonna be a thing. You can see
that coming from a mile away. Even though no one
gets yanked in that spot. It's just just a shitty outcome.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
And he wore today.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
He's like, I regret doing that, but you're gonna take
him out of the game. If anything, you should regret
the play call. He shouldn't be handling the ball. But
either way, Seeatt'll beat the crap out of them, and
you know how, he gets a lot of credit and
rightfully so you could argue the John Schneiders, not just
willingness but ability to move Russell Wilson change the course

(33:12):
of their franchise forever, because they not only got multiple
picks back, and I mean through those picks, they got
starting tackle, they got Witherspoon, who's a stud. They got
Boie Mafe, who actually I was reading might get traded
tomorrow to then use to get a bigger trade. I
could see them sniffing around on Max Crosby, to be honestly,

(33:34):
but I just think John Schneider's trade of Russell Wilson
is might be as important.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
And we'll see.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
I guess drafting Russell Wilson help them win a super Bowl,
so they'd have to win a super Bowl. So that's
that personnel moves is as important as any John's ever made.
But you could say the move of trading him because
typically when you're in those situations like you to go
down with the ship with a guy like that, and
they weren't just able to pivot off him because Russell

(34:05):
Wilson is a worse player than guys that we constantly,
you know, rip on their contract and their status like
Tua and Kyler. He can't hold those guys, Jock. He
traded him for two first round picks, but it's not
just the first round picks, it's the clearing up of
the cap space. So then several years later, you look,
you had much more money to deal with. They were

(34:26):
able to sign guys like Sam Dornland, extend guys like
Leonard Williams. That move was a catalyst for the Seattle
team we're seeing now, and I think sometimes and that's
a good example of.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
You got to make bold moves.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
And when he made that trade, we didn't know.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
Russell was bad yet.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
I thought that was a type move that was going
to get everyone fired, and it did. It just turned
out it was everyone in Denver except the GM who
somehow survived and is now Sean Payn's right hand man,
but every other coaching staff for the coaching staff got canned.
So I just I don't think we spend enough time
talking and thinking about the moment that John Schneider traded

(35:11):
Russell Wilson because it just changed the course of their
franchise and they went with Gino Smith and now they
have Sam Darnold, who is just one of the best
quarterbacks in the NFL. So I just think Seattle, this
Seattle and Rams thing. I mean, if Seattle plays Arizona

(35:31):
this week, who obviously is coming off a road Monday
night game, so they're gonna get back. I mean, they
probably won't land at Arizona till three or four in
the morning, and the Rams are a favored, are favored
against the forty nine ers in Levi's obviously the forty
nine ers lost another guy today, so I think we're

(35:52):
gonna learn a lot.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
And I think Eagles Packers.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I haven't even looked at the schedule yet, but I
think Eagles Packers this week, so or maybe maybe that's next.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Week, but keep an eye on that.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
I'm getting ahead of myself here. Other than that, we
did have Tucker Craft towards ACL which is a massive
blow for the Green Bay Packers. That's one of those
that's like, I don't know if you overcome now. I
think when you look around the league, a lot of
guys have gotten hurt, but that one that's a crippling loss.

(36:26):
And I get a lot of DMS obviously for the
mail Bag, and Packers have a lot of fans. It
does feel like there's some momentum and some negativity surrounding
Lafloor with the Green Bay game, or excuse me, the
Browns game and the Carolina game. Those are type games
you lose that if you get bounced in the first round,
can cost you your job. And there's been a lot

(36:47):
of pressure on Matt Lafleour. Even the new president, Carmon
Policy's son Ed talked about it.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Like, listen, this is a big year for these guys,
right they're in.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
This is when you would get your contract extended at
the end of this year. So once you make that
move for Micah Parsons, the pressure is on. And the
games like that are ones that lose you a lot
of equity and lose you a lot of equity fast.
The forty nine ers drafted Mikel Williams from Georgia. Just

(37:18):
this massive defensive lineman. He's probably ideally like a pass
rushing interior defensive lineman. He's not a great edge rusher,
but he's just he's a beast. He's like six five,
two hundred and ninety eighty pounds long arms.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
He should be a really high end starter in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
I don't know if he's ever gonna be like an
elite player, but you watch guys like Buckner and Armstead
and Kalais Campbell like he's that type hybrid body type
that should just be an impact. He was a five
star Blue Chipper towards ACL today or I guess yesterday,
and the forty nine ers kind of knew it. Kyle

(37:57):
kind of alluded to it yesterday. I just don't think
we've ever seen anything like this, you know, the amount
of injuries, I mean, perdy, Kyle admitted not only is
a turf toe, which we've already known, but it's not
only not improving, like he's not good to go, and
this is not something that's ever gonna get better.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
I mean, there's a chance we just brock Purty.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
They gave one hundred and eighty million dollars guaranteed, and
it's gonna start two games for the season.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
That's that's on the table.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
You know, George Kittle missed a huge chunk of the
game or the season. After Game one. All their offensive
linemen are banged up, and defensively, I mean Bosa's towards ACL,
Michael Williams towards ACL, Fred Warner's ankle shattered. It's like,
I just don't I think it's borderlined insane.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
They're six and three.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
It does feel like a little house of cards, and
they're in a really, really tough spot this weekend against
the Ramps. And that's why you know this trade deadline,
which if you're listening to this on in the afternoon,
has probably already passed.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
I think you have to be very honest.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
With yourself, right, how good you are, because there are
always going to be trades. Like, if you are willing
to give up a high enough pick, you can pull
off a lot of players in the NFL. Right, But
if you give a second round pick and then all
of a sudden you miss that seventh seed and that
pick is pick seventeen, well, now that's a pretty high

(39:19):
second round pick. You know. The Washington Commanders are a
good example. I commended Adam Peters for doing this because
there weren't a lot of good players in free agency,
and he didn't want to use his free agency money,
which he had a lot of, to overpay guys because
that's what you have to do in free agency, so
he used draft capital to buy guys that were already

(39:41):
under contract. Deebo Samuel fifteen million dollars fifth round pick,
Laramie Tunsil, You get my starting left tackle. I give
up a third in twenty twenty five. He gave up
a second in twenty twenty six, which obviously you got
to pay a lot for starting left tackle who's a
good player, and a.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Pick in a year.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Like if I trade you a twenty twenty six second
round pick in February of twenty twenty five, that pick
is valued less because it's a year away, so on
the value chart, it's typically a round lower. Right, Like
if I give you a third round pick in a
couple of years, I don't view that as the same

(40:23):
as a third round pick. Now, it's like time value money.
The problem for Washington is if you win four or
five games, which is clearly on the table after some
of their injuries and obviously Jayden being out for who
knows maybe the.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Rest of the season.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
That pick could be like pick thirty seven. And at
the time when you pull those off, you just pray
you're not in those situations, but sometimes you are. It's
like when they traded for Matt Stafford and had to
give up some first round picks, and then a year
later they had a bunch of injuries and that pick
was a top ten pick, and the Detroit Lions. We're

(41:00):
able to use that to get guys like Jamiir Gibbs
and Sam Laporta.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Right.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Sometimes when you get a high pick, ask Seattle and
that team sucks, like the Denver Broncos you get Devin
Witherspoon at pick five. So it's the same with like
giving up a second round pick. Well, if you suck
that second round pick instead of being picked fifty, is
now pick thirty six, and google some of the guys
that go in the thirties. Sometimes it's Hall of Famers.

(41:31):
You get high end starters there. So it's really really risky,
and I think a lot of people go back and
forth and that's where I think, Howie, once you've won
a couple of Super Bowls, you know, Belichick got to
the point where it's like he didn't care.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
He just did.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
And for a long time when he had Brady, most
stuff kind of worked. And if it didn't work, whatever,
we just pivoted. How he's kind of in that mole too.
It's like the equity speaks for itself. Just won the
Super Bowl twenty seventeen. We went to another one a
couple years ago. Like I've proven I know what I'm doing.
It's football. These are human beings. I'm gonna miss on some.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
We're gonna make full speed, fucking decisions.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Some people throughout the league, like don't have the equity
to just give up a second and third round pick
because if it does blow up in their face, then
their asses on.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
The chop chopping block.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
How he's not thinking about like job security doesn't even
cross his mind when he's just making me He's just
literally doing whatever it takes to try to help the
team become better. That's what Bill did for two decades,
and that enables you to actually operate from a position
of strength, because if you have conviction, you're like, yeah,
I'll pay for that.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
We need this.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Where I think it's easier for other people to talk
yourself out of it's like, well I might need that
second round pick, and if this blows up in my
face and look like an idiot and the fans will
beyond me, and who knows, maybe I won't get a
contract extension in two years. So I think one thing
is going to be fascinating is like, does any player.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Go for a second round pick?

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Because if we get a guy of that level that
that would be pretty eye opening. I would guess no.
You know, Jalen Phillips for a third round pick feels
right about the line. Every once in a while, though,
you get like Christian McCaffrey's been traded for a second,
a third, and a fourth round pick.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Right.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Uh. If tomorrow someone's traded for Jalen Wattle, they gave
up a second round pick, which I think sometimes with
wide receivers you're like, well, we would like him, he's
under contract, but.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Couldn't I find a guy in the draft in the
second round who can do that for way cheaper?

Speaker 1 (43:41):
And I think these are the conversations you're constantly having
with you so trying to balance the future. And now,
because I'll tell you this, the head coach, the coordinators,
your star players, all they care about is the next
couple of months. They don't give a shit about the draft.
There's not most these coaches haven't watched a snap of

(44:02):
college football, not a snap because on Saturday mornings, they're
either traveling with the team, you know, and you're just
not really watching much. Right you're traveling, you're an airplane.
You get down, you have some meetings, you eat, you
go to bed, and if you're at home, you do
some walkthroughs in the morning, you go home, you spend
time with your family because you haven't seen them literally

(44:22):
all week. So that they got no clue that they
don't know Ty Simpson from Bart Simpson, but your front
office does. And that's where their influence and their juice
can help these guys, like, hey, there's a loaded class
at wide receiver, and you know, if this administration we're
not going anywhere. I think we can hold off on that.

(44:44):
And that's where you have to have a good communication
and a good rapport with the guy you work with,
because sometimes you got to talk them off the ledge,
like I really need this guy It's like, I don't
know if that's the best idea. I don't know if
that's the best idea, and you never know. I mean
that's part of you know, doing deals is some work
out and some are just a major flop and absolutely

(45:08):
disastrous when you factor in compensation, production, everything combined. But
I think we're really going to see in the next
you know, twelve hours at least from recording this. It's
ten fifteen a night. You know who thinks they're really good?
And I think a lot of teams will get cold
feet because it's so wide open right now? Can I

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(46:52):
Middlecoff mailbag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the
Instagram fire in those DMS questions answered here on the show.
Again at John Middlecoff firing the DMS questions on the show.
We'll start with cal. After the Pats grinded out a
win by one point against Atlanta, the Patriots posted their
classic player interview to YouTube shortly after the game, where

(47:15):
they spoke to Pop, Douglas Diggs, Chasing mccollins, and more guys.
These postgame interviews have been the most revealing piece of
evidence for Mike Vrabel to be Coach of the Year.
You watched these guys talk about each other and the team,
and they truly like one another and love coming to
work under Vrabel. Couple that with the team being the

(47:36):
opposite under Mayo and the end of the Belichick era,
and I think he has a compelling case. It's really
amazing how talented Vrabel is and how he can pull
this off so fast. So is Vrabel the coach of
the year leader in the clubhouse? Well, I do think
he inherited a complete you know what, right, They have
been really bad now for several years, and from Ilicheck

(48:00):
those last couple of years to Mayo and the dysfunction
last year pretty embarrassing for a franchise that was a
dynasty for twenty years. So it's not like he was well,
there were some positives, No, there was a lot of negatives.
He'd errored a couple players right in Christian Gonzales obviously
the quarterback, but a lot of it was new coaching staff.

(48:20):
Tear this thing down to the studs, add a bunch
of dudes in free agency, in the draft, and try
to kickstart this thing on the go schedule was a joke.
It's why anyone that falls football, you went, you know,
this team should win nine ten games now if they
win the division and win thirteen or fourteen, then I
have no problem voting for him. I will say what

(48:42):
he's done is remarkable. I would say what Shane Steichen
has done with Daniel Jones is pretty eye opening. Say
what Ben Johnson turning that joke of a franchise into
a team that's probably gonna have an over five hundred
record is pretty impressive. And listen when I say joking franchise,

(49:04):
I don't. I'm talking about like the ownership and the
consistent chaos that happens with the Bears. Kyle Shanahan if
he wins ten to eleven games with a roster full
of practice squad guys, so I think there's gonna be
a lot of guys in the mix. November and December
typically determine who wins that. But if you want to

(49:24):
vote for him, I'm on board. Why do people hate
the Eagles fans so much? No bias, but we're easily
top three fan base in the league, and we're not
two or three passionate loyal and we actually know ball.
Yet it feels like everyone outside of Philly loves the
pyle on us. The funny part is when the Eagles
are bad or do something stupid, the number one. Haters
for the Eagles are their own fans. We hold our
own team more accountable than anyone. Do you think other

(49:48):
fan bases are just jealous of how invested we are.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
I don't know. I think you guys definitely get a
bad rap.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
I mean, having lived there for a couple of years,
I still have close friends in the organization and people
that still live there that don't work for the team.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I yeah, I mean, I I.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Think you have an sec level passion. It's a it's
a big sports city and the Eagles are King Kong.
I mean, and you guys obviously, you know, the Phillies
have been really good. The Sixers have disappointed a lot.
I don't fall hockey enough to know about the Flyers,
but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I guess it's
you're not supposed to boo and something's going wrong.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
It's like they just they're booing. It's weak too.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
They just won the Super Bowl, so yeah, we just
had ten yards of offense.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
We're supposed to cheer. What are we supposed to do?

Speaker 1 (50:34):
I think gets back to throwing snowballs at Stanta Claus.
I think cheering Michael Irvin. But it's like I'm not
a huge proponent, and you know, believer in like spending
all my time and holding onto something that happened thirty
years ago. It's a guys twenty twenty five and they've
had a lot of success. That place rocks. I think

(50:54):
you guys get a bad rap. You're intense. So are
a lot of places. If you went to Alabama, LSU,
Ohio State, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, these are intense environments. You
know they liked football a lot. Down by thirty one points,
was seven minutes left in the fourth quarter. It seems
insane to keep your franchise quarterback in the game, yet

(51:16):
that's exactly what the Commanders did, leading to Jaden daniels
horrendous injury. It also seems like most teams have their
starters and even quarterbacks out in almost these impossible to
overcome game situations. Is there a reason why many coaches
opt to keep valuable players in lose lose scenarios. That's
a good question. I would say football, and I mentioned

(51:39):
this on Sunday night when I recorded the podcast. Football
does not parallel basketball or baseball. In basketball, when you're
down forty, you just don't put.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Your starters back in the game.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
In baseball, if a guy's getting shelled, you yank them.
In football, you kind of ride it out. And the
only way that you could be on the field is
going full go. There's no tanking, there's no going through
the most and you're gonna get injured sometimes. So it's like,
I think it's easy to pile on, but no one
comes out in that situation. You look around the league

(52:09):
and all these blowouts, guys are in late. If that
doesn't happen to Jayden, does Sam Darnold come out of
the game. So I didn't have a problem with him
being in the game because people are always in the game.
In football, there's not You don't even have enough offensive
linemen to pull out your entire unit. You only dress
five wide receivers, so guys just have to play. All

(52:30):
these other positions have to play. I think it's easy
to say, and I'm not saying you're saying this, but
it's just like, play your backups. Well, there's not even
enough backups to yank all the starters out of the game,
so I and it's like, well, the backup would go,
especially if I'm a backup detackle or a backup tight end,
Why play half the snaps anyway? So you need me
against the good teams as well, you need me in

(52:52):
the tight games as well. So I think it's pretty complicated.
It's just the nature of the sport. Football is a
lot different than you know, it's much more like hockey
in the sense of like if you're out there, it's
just it kind of is what it is. You know,
you got to be pretty dialed and you could argue, like,
why are we calling these plays right that put him

(53:12):
in compromise situations?

Speaker 2 (53:13):
And I think Cliff would go those are his plays. So,
I mean that's a big part of his game. I
would say, hey.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Could we have been smarter of just calling some like
quick passes than anything that would keep the ball in
his hands? Probably, But you know I'm nitpicking it. It
didn't bother me. Not the injury bothered me. That sucks,
but it didn't bother me that he was in the game.
I mean, that's just welcome to the NFL. My question

(53:40):
is this was Jordan Love anointed too early? He has
good he was he had eight good games two years
ago and since then has been very up and down,
losing to the Browns and Panthers the same year. While
he plays terribly is not a great look. What are
your thoughts on how legit he actually is. I understand
Pittsburgh was struggling just a week ago.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
He shredded them.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
What he throw three hundred and fifty yards, multiple touchdowns
and just dominated them. I mean it felt like for
a second, it's like, God, is he gonna end the
Tomlin era? Unofficially now they saved it against Daniel Jones,
who was having an incredible season, and they made look terrible.
So it's like, well, their defense actually has some players
because I just saw them against Daniel Jones absolutely punk them,

(54:24):
and I saw Jordan Love shred them in the second half, So.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
You know there's one thing.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
It's like, Caleb has a lot of talent, right, bo
Knicks has a lot of talent. It's like, can they
do it consistently? That's a different question than you know.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Jordan Love.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
I've seen him play huge games against big time opponents,
playoffs included, so you know it's there because it's literally
happening in games. It's not even a projection. But last
game is a good example. I mean everyone freaked out
about the pass on fourth and seven or whatever. When
he throw it across his body, that should have been picked.
Even if the guy picks it because he was jumping,

(55:02):
I think the wide receiver tackles them, so it wouldn't
have been a pick six.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
But anytime you go.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
For it in these fourth down situations that there is
no throw it away, right, there is no live to
fight another down. This is the down. So I haven't
heard the explanation from Lafloor on his thoughts on that decision,
but like you kind of got to force feed something.
That's part of going for it on anything that's not

(55:28):
going to be a run on fourth down, and anything
fourth and five and longer that you're gonna put in
your quarterback's hands. Like he's got to throw it up there.
And I'm not defending him by any means on the pass.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
But like, what's he supposed to do? Just dirt it,
throw it.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Out of bounce. Now, if it was a pick six,
I'd be a different problem. Something you are dead wrong about.
You don't become a man when your dad dies, but
rather when you first get that helpless newborn baby in
your arms. Beside the grace of God, there is no
greater blessing, so congrats and prayers for healthy baby and delivery.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
I appreciate that question, given the.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Great Matt Walden has commented here on all the garbage
narratives about Caleb Williams, and also given Walden wald Men
is one of the great scouts currently alive. Will you
please search your soul and ask yourself how much of
your comments about Caleb boil down to the fact that

(56:25):
you just don't like the guy. You know, It's funny,
you're very emotionally invested. I appreciate the kind of words
on the baby as well, but you're very emotionally invested
on the Bears.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
There is zero emotion one way or the other. If
they won the Super Bowl, that'd be awesome. If they
never won a game, it wouldn't impact.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Me at all. I truly do not care.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
And all I've said about Caleb is like, the way
that he plays is not sustainable to be a good player.
It's why I I also hate oftentimes the word narrative.
There's no narrative with Caleb. We just watch him play
and go, Yeah, we were expecting more. He was a
number one overall pick. I was told he was one

(57:10):
of the great prospects of all time, Stafford Luck Peyton.
And I'm watching a guy that is in the teens.
When he's good, he's twelve thirteen. When he's bad, he's
closer like nineteen or twenty. And like yesterday, at points
he was atrocious and other points he had guys that
were open. But it's like, if you think I'm gonna

(57:31):
throw the guy at parade after you beat Cincinnati, just
like after you beat Dallas, it's just not gonna happen.
It's like I put zero stock in bo Nick sliding
up Dallas. I'm recording this part before Monday night. But like,
you don't get credit slicing and dicing one of the
worst defenses we've ever seen. But like he made some
big time plays. He had the big play with his feet.

(57:51):
The star of this team is the coach. So to me,
if you're emotionally invested in the Bears, you should be like,
we nailed this coach. So whether Caleb were or not,
who cares. We will figure it out with Ben Johnson,
and to me, that's all that matters. If he works out, great,
But my style of quarterback either is not a guy
that typically once he sees a read, starts just scrambling around,

(58:16):
and that's kind of how he plays, which I don't
really like, you know, So he's not my style of quarterback.
But if he becomes a star, cool, we'll talk about it.
If he doesn't, he doesn't. But everyone's the quote unquote
narratives are just people watching him play and people like
you that get so offended when people are like, they're

(58:37):
not nice enough. He's a number one overall pick, so
the standard's really high. He's told he was the greatest
prospect in recent memory, a more physically gifted guy, even
than Trevor Lawrence, who obviously everyone shits on who isn't
good enough for guy being the number one overall pick
got two hundred million dollars for another guy. He's a
team right. He varies on a given week. He's the

(58:58):
thirteenth best quarterback. Sometimes he's the eighteenth. That's kind of
the world he lives in. When you're taking number one overall,
I'm expecting a high end starter. Just not the case now.
Caleb's in the second year. Tarrifvers however, many years in,
so there's still room for growth. But I stand by
what I say. I will be surprised if this marriage

(59:20):
works long term. That doesn't mean you can't have an
unreal year. Win ten games and Ben Johnson can.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Be in the mix for Coach of the Year.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
That should be the headline, not like people aren't being
nice enough to Caleb. I don't know, just stop scrambling
around and making some of these dumb plays. If the
Packers go one and done in the playoffs or miss
the playoffs, is Lafleur fired after the end of this year?

Speaker 2 (59:46):
I think good is safe.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
Teams solidified, solidly built, can't even read. But Lafleur's lack
of consistency has been concerning. Not being able to beat
teams like the Browns and Panthers is unacceptable.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Totally agree.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
You gotta win those games. I'd even say the Tivers
Dallas a pretty bad. That letdown, you know, I would
have said two weeks ago, just it was like, God,
these guys are gonna win thirteen games and the extension
is inevitable. Then you see basically part two of the
Browns game, and listen, the Browns have like an elite defense,

(01:00:21):
you know, to be able to score thirteen total points
against the Panthers. That one's tough to get out coached
by Dave Canalis. It's like, come on, Matt, you want
a huge extension and based on this previous success.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
We got to see more here, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
I have them as one of my teams to win
the division. They're part of a big parlay that's kind
of on life support a little bit. But I just
think that there's a lot of pressure on them. There's
a lot of pressure. I said this last night on Sunday.
You can't come out and say like Thanksgiving, Halloween stupid.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
I hate it. I'm focused on winning a football game
and then it'll lose to the Panthers.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Like that's come on, bro, either lighting up or if
you're gonna be serious dominating. How do we know that
Will Howard is in the future in Pittsburgh? Have you

(01:01:27):
heard anything? Mike Tomlin or Arthur Smith have not texted
me any updates on Will Howard. I would say anytime
that you're a late round pick, you're not.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Viewed as the future.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
I would say that is just rule thumb. So if
you're draft in the fifth, sixth, seventh round and is
Will Howard hurt? Maybe that was Riley Leonard. I get
those two guys mixed up a little bit. But when
you're draft in the sixth or seventh round, no one
in the organization views you as the future. Doesn't mean
if you get your opportunity you can't run with it.

(01:01:59):
We've seen guys perty Tom Brady, right, I mean Tony Romo,
undrafted free agent, but no one views you as the future.
No one in the league, obviously, anyone with the Steelers.
Do you think Arch is gonna be? Check down, Charlie.
He had some good passes yesterday, but I can't help
but think.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
He's just a dude. I gotta give Arch some credit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
I thought he was exceptional against Vanderbilt. Now, I'm not
exactly breaking down personnel for Vandy's defense, so I'm not
gonna act like they're the best defense since you know,
Kirby Smart's team three years ago or some.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
Of Saban's teams. Clearly they're not.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
But he annihilated them, and Vandy was the favorite coming
into that game a lot of pressure. Arch has played
well recently in some kind of weird games against lesser opponents,
but that was easily just me watching as a fan
of football. If he had looked like that throughout the season.
I think we would be discussing him a lot differently,

(01:02:59):
and and you know, one thing's gonna come up and
people in the media and fans.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Is like, he's just a first year starter. Give him time.
Those days are done.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
You're getting paid seven million dollars. The expectations are really high.
This goes back to Caleb. If Caleb was a third
round pick, we would discuss him differently than the number
one overall pick in a draft with a bunch of
other quarterbacks, with Jayden Daniels, Drake May. I mean, bo
Nix is going to be a starter on a playoff
team back to back years. So it's just you're just
held to a different standard, fair or not. And you

(01:03:30):
could argue it's not fair, but as what's his name said,
that's what the money's for. So no one cares.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
About your problems. The faster you realize that in life,
I think, the easier it is to go.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
It's like, people just don't care about your problems. It's like, yeah,
I know, so I don't expect them to. I actually
saw Mike McDaniel say that because they asked him about
what he thought about the GM getting fired. And you
know what's his emotional and he's like, obviously all this
stuff takes an emotional toll on you, But no one
in this building, so.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Anyone working for me gives a shit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
No one cares. It's completely irrelevant. So you just put
your head down and keep moving. It's like, yeah, that's
kind of the way life works. A question for the bag,
how legit are the Panthers? Seemed like we are dependent
on one player and can only win one type way.
But after beating the Cowboys and now the Packers, I
wanted your opinion. I just assumed you guys were pretty

(01:04:23):
bad on defense, but every time I looked up yesterday,
you guys were holding them in the red zone, creating turnovers,
just doing fun shit. I'd be lying if I was
super dialed in when like you were on offense. To
have some bold take on Bryce. I saw the stat
line he threw for like one hundred yards. At one
point in time, I was moving around volume on some

(01:04:44):
of the four boxes. The TV they were.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
On was not on.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
I don't even put volume on the if you make
the smaller TV. I put the main games on the
big TV. Yesterday that was like, you know, Pittsburgh, Indye,
the Pats, actually Chicago Cincy, the Pats game, Indye Pit
and Lions and Detroit I thought were pretty impactful games,

(01:05:12):
and the Niners Giants. That kind of rotated between those
five and then put a couple of random games on
the right hand TV, which included because I assumed the
Packers were gonna win. If you told me at the
beginning of the day what the final score would have been,
I would have been like thirty one to seventeen or
something thirty one to thirteen. So every time you looked up,
you just expected them to kind of hit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
The gas and throttle them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
But panthers a feisty that there's no dispute in that
the red zone came on and I had the volume on.
I might have misheard this, but Dowbdell has more rushing
yards could have been all purpose yards, but pretty sure
rushing yards over the last month than any player in
the league, which kind of makes sense. I mean, he's

(01:05:55):
he's had some massive games. McMillan's obviously been really really
good for you guys, and listen, it does just feel
like Carolinas just settled down a little bit and they
feel a lot quieter, a lot less noisy. You know,
I think they've benefited. Obviously, the Saints are going through
a huge transition and the Atlanta dysfunction benefits them a lot.

(01:06:19):
And when you suck that bad for a couple of years,
you truly get to fly under the radar. And you're
five and four, like you're in the wildcard mix. There's
no dispute in that. If you just hover around five
hundred till the middle of December, there's not that big
a difference between going eight and nine and going ten
and seven. I mean, you honestly could be talking three

(01:06:41):
or four place in the course of a couple games. Obviously,
it's a fumble recovery here, or dropped interception there, a
block kick happening. Because it's the NFL, you playing a
lot of games that are thirteen to sixteen. I would
be pretty bullish on Dan Morgan and Canalis. Think they're
just doing a solid job. There's no disputing that, and

(01:07:03):
they're kind of like Bryce's has limitations. But you could
always draft a quarterback this year too. Dolphins fan just
got finished watching your reaction to the Dolphins Ravens and
agree they have experienced and agree that an experienced defensive
coach is perfect. If you were the GM, would you
value experience or defense more? If it came down to it,

(01:07:24):
would you go after Mike McCarthy or Chrish Shula for
the Rams this offseason?

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Thanks a lot. I think your organization needs more like
a crazy, hard ass.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
You know, like whoever a younger version of this guy is.
And listen, I mean you think he's like sixty three,
sixty four, but like five ten years ago, like a
guy like Rex Ryan. I'm trying to think of some
other like defensive guys. It happens a lot in college,
you know, like Kirby Smart obviously Saban, I mean he's

(01:07:58):
an outlier, but just like a hard ass, throwback defensive
coach who's kind of no nonsense and discipline. I mean
essentially Vrabel up in New England, whoever Vrabel is, which
is obviously hard to find, but some version of that
that is what Miami needs. It's not even about offense
or defense. It's just kind of about a badass. You know.

(01:08:19):
The Eagles once upon a time, like Andy was pretty
like no nonsense early on in Philadelphia, right, and honestly,
it's kind of his philosophy. There's not much like bullshitting
when it comes to football, like you're late. We got problems.
You don't practice hard. We got problems. You're not taking
meetings seriously, we got problems. Like you can be an

(01:08:40):
offensive guy, like you can't fuck around with the forty
nine ers, right, you're gonna have problems. Same thing with
McVeigh that they have pretty high standards for.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
What is tolerated and what is not tolerated.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
And clearly with Mike feels like people are just walking
all over him and that that's a problem. And that's
why I lean defense, but you can get.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
I think Lafleur is.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Kind of a tight ass, which you could argue backfire sometimes,
but I think you kind of need something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Great content.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
My question is is Buffalo looking in consistent up until
they dominated the Chiefs? How much of that is the
Bills turning themselves into the anti Chiefs and its transferable
to the rest of the league. I just think there
are certain things in life people really get up for,
I mean really get up for it. I see it

(01:09:35):
with you know, Maria and some of her friends. Some
people like live to throw parties, whether that's baby showers,
whether that's hosting dinners like, that's like the fuel. It
gets them going. No different than we all know, you know,
you know, like my mother in law or my mom
or you know whoever, older people in your family that

(01:09:55):
live for some of the holiday festivities because they get
their family around, they get to see their kids. It's
a really really it's like their super Bowl, you know,
Thanksgiving or Christmas, just like the Masters or the actual
super Bowl is my super Bowl. And then there are
just opponents that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
You don't need a raw ross speech.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
If you're Sean McDermott the week you're playing the Chiefs,
you don't need to tell guys to get focused up
and restart stuff at practice. Like I bet if you
ask Kirby Smart, like you got a coach ard the
weeks that you're playing Alabama or Texas or the SEC
championship game, he'd say, no, the opponent does that itself.

(01:10:36):
You think Ohio State has to like fire up the
guys when they're gonna play Oregon, Indiana or Michigan. Of course,
not where you're earn your money is when you're playing
you know, the Falcons on Monday Night. You're like, ay,
the Falcons, I'm not taking it that seriously, you don't
have a great week of practice. Why Because we're human beings.
So whether you're a coach or whether you're a player,

(01:10:57):
there's just a different level of focus with more on
the line. If you say, hey, John, we have an advertiser.
One guy is willing to give you ten thousand dollars,
the other guys willing to give you five million dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Do you think I would approach both the same?

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
How could you? It would be impossible. So I think
the level in which and listen, they have played the
Chiefs really well in the playoffs as well. They match
up well against them, Josh plays well against them. The
Chiefs are not their issue obviously they have been in
the playoffs because they haven't beaten them like you watch
them play. The reason they haven't gotten the number one

(01:11:33):
seed over the last couple of years is because of
other opponents. You know, it's because blowing game like they
did to the Patriots earlier this year. Atlanta, I mean,
Atlanta's probably a seven win team, six win team. If
that's the difference between you getting the one seed and not,
that's killer man, that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
That really is.

Speaker 1 (01:11:50):
So I don't know if there's much to say, besides, like, yeah,
they just they get up for them and they match
up well that they just feel comfortable playing them. A
lot of people are uncomfortable playing Kansas City. The Bills
clearly are not. Me and one of my military buddies
have an ongoing debate, bet I want to know what

(01:12:13):
side you'd be on. So we have one hundred dollars
bet on who will win a Super Bowl first, Alan
or Lamar. I'm on the Josh side.

Speaker 2 (01:12:21):
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Well, I think with the Steelers winning that game, they
can take it a little bit of a deep breath.
The Ravens still have an uphill battle to go. I
liked him a lot more if the Steelers would have
lost the Colts all of a sudden, Pittsburgh looked like
Pittsburgh again. In you're five and three. You just got
a little more breathing room for a team that's three
and five. So it's still an uphill battle. They're probably
gonna need to sweep those games, which Pittsburgh has always

(01:12:46):
played well against Baltimore and taking them out several times
even when Baltimore's had really good teams. But the Buffalo
bill still have the number one seed, opportunity in twenty
twenty five. So if they get the number one overall,
see and let's say the Ravens are either the four
seed or somehow get the seven seed or miss the playoffs.

(01:13:07):
I'm just gonna like the bills chances more this year.
And we're just kind of living year to year because
we see how fast things can change. So based on
this year, I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Would go just the Bills.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
But two years ago, I said, when the Ravens had
the home field advantage and they look like the best
team in the league by a mile. I mean, they
played the forty nine ers on Christmas, beat the shit
out of them. It was like the Chiefs aren't beating
this team.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
And then what happened? They lost?

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
How is Mark Davis considered one of the worst owners
in football, but he is the gold standard of owners
in the WNBA. He has three titles, hired the best
coach with the best players. Of course, comparing the NFL
to the WNBA is apples and oranges, But doesn't it
say something positive about the guy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
He cares, he tries.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
I think in the WNBA one financially it's it's it's
not even close to being comparable. What did the average
player in the WNBA make a hundred grand I mean,
I think you have a payroll of two hundred and
fifty million dollars, So mistakes hurt you more in basketball

(01:14:18):
in general. I mean, I don't know much about the aces,
but if you get a couple good players, your team's
gonna be good. In football, like they have Brock Bowers,
they have Max Crosby, they have Colton Miller, like they
have other good players, and they've had other good players
over the years. And it doesn't mean anything like it's
about having a team. It's about having a coach and
a GM that know what they're doing, which I believe

(01:14:39):
they do now. But the roster's so shitty. The draft
and free agency is so big. I mean, a couple
of years ago they gave Wilkins from Miami one hundred
million dollars guaranteed basically, and two years later he's not
even on the team. I didn't think he's in the league.
So I think it's apples to oranges. I think it's
like football is to backasketball. It's just not even comparable.

(01:15:02):
That they have nothing in common beside you can win
a title.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Yeah, I mean, I just.

Speaker 1 (01:15:13):
I think there are worse owners in the sense that
guys that medal, like clearly in Cleveland, that guy meddles
a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
He's very involved.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Clearly over the last five years, David Tepper has gotten
too involved, right, that happens not even debatable in some
of these, But I don't think he's telling you who
to draft or who to pick. So from that standpoint,
his downfall has been he's hired the wrong people. Now
a huge part of being an owners hiring people right
and letting them, letting them cook. And he's made some

(01:15:41):
catastrophic failures at hiring guys. Josh McDaniels didn't even make
it to you to finish year two what's his name?
Last year te LESCo and Antonio Pierce.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
One and done.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
So it's like you start having the one and done,
you find yourself in problems problem territory quick. Is there

(01:16:18):
any way Donald could win the MVP or do you
think his reputation not being a big name quarterback could
prevent him from winning it? I think the MVP is
wide open right now. I mean wide open, from Alan
Mahomes to Drake May's in the mix, Baker Mayfield still
in the mix, obviously, Stafford's now in the mix. Sam

(01:16:40):
Donald's in the mix. We got two months of primetime
games of divisional games. It's gonna play itself out. But hell,
Jalen Hurts is not dead by any means. When you
look at his stats and where his teams kind of sits.
I just think we gotta be careful about we got a.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Long, long way to go. Felt pretty good about my
Baker Mayfield play, but it's just it's tough.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
I don't think him not being a quote unquote big name.
I think Sam Donald's a big name at this point
in time. His number three overall pick USC obviously crashed
out in New York, but I think he has more
than resurrected his career to be I mean, he's been
top four or five quarterback this year. He was one
of the best quarterbacks in the league last year. So
it's like, it's like, well, you had bad playoff game,

(01:17:26):
so does Lamar. I'm not saying that Sam Donald's as
good as Lamar, but we see a lot of guys
have bad playoff games.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
It's football.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
Jordan Loves had an awful playoff game, Dak Prescott's had
horrendous playoff game.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
Guys had bad playoff games. Here we go again.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
I ask you what would happen if Chicago beat the Commanders,
and in your words, we'd be sitting pretty good. And
here we are five and three. Here's my question. With
the NFC North being wide the bleep open, do you
think the Bears have any shot at a playoff run?

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
Well? Have?

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
I don't feel like the played the Lions, they got
blown out. They played Minnesota, they lost Week one. I'm
pulling up your schedule here, I actually clicked on the Lions.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Let's pull up the Bears schedule.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
So at five and three, you gotta be feeling incredible.
Five and three is Chicgo Bears. Didn You guys lose
like ten straight last year after starting two and two,
So I think this year to be five and three
and just in the position to have a winning record
is pretty incredible. But you've lost, You've played two divisional games,
you lost them both. Now coming up you're going to Minnesota. Well,

(01:18:37):
you play the Giants this week, so you got a
pretty good chance to be six and three. I would
say at this point in time, it would be an
upset if you're not six and three, right, So then
you got at Minnesota, you got Pittsburgh at home, at Philly,
at Green Bay, Cleveland's coming to you, green Bay forty

(01:18:57):
nine ers Lions. If you get to ten wins, Ben
Ben Johnson's in the Coach of the Year. And I
would say also that Caleb's got to be having a
pretty good season.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
Gonna get pretty difficult though.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
You're facing high end defensive coordinators, just a lot of
pressure in these games. The more you win, the more
people are paying attention to you, the more they game
plan against you in the sense of like take you
a little more seriously. I remember everyone's slurping Jaden Daniels
as Joe cool so calm, unfazed. I see a mofo

(01:19:34):
panicked throwing heaters all over the place. Is that what
you see?

Speaker 2 (01:19:38):
I feel like he got.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
Injured early in the season and hasn't looked right all
year long. He looks I don't know really how to
say it, beside he just looks off. Uh that there's
he doesn't feel as smooth as an athlete, and maybe
that has to do with some of his hamstring issues.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
He definitely was not as explosive as a runner this year.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
From a passing standpoint. I mean, mclaurin's been in and
out of the lineup. Deebo is a line of scrimmage
wide receiver. Their personnelit wide receiver is not great, urs
is old. Once Eckler got injured, there depending on this
rookie running back. So I'm not giving him a pass,
but I'm not denying what you're saying. He's looked off

(01:20:21):
the whole team. Ass their whole team borderline disaster. Was
wondering why the hell so many people anointed the Chiefs
as the best team in the league when they were
five and three. Now they're five and four, not in
the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
What a joke?

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
How on earth did people view them as the best team.
I'm genuinely curious. Well, I mean, I think a huge
part of it is there a track record, I mean,
your track record kind of matters.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
You have a guy did's won three Super.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Bowls as a head coach and as a quarterback in
an organization, the defensive coordinator, the core group of players.
They've been winning the AFC year after year. So when
you start seeing them trend the right way, you go.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
God.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Now, one thing that bit him in the ass, for
sure against Buffalo is they're missing their left tackle, and
then they had multiple offensive line injuries in the game,
so there is a massive domino effect. When Simmons left right,
you got backups that then you got third stringers in
and it can just be a problem. Now I'd have

(01:21:27):
to text those guys like, if Josh Simmons is healthy
playing left tackle and your right tackle gets injured. Is
Jalen Moore a left tackle? Only do you feel comfortable
playing him on the right side. He's mainly come in
in regular season games.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
On the left side. Could be wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
I mean, I'm pretty sure the Niners, you know anytime
you're a swing tackle. But I just think that the
Bills have also beat him five straight years in the
regular season. I think where they really got to be
kicking themselves. This is what happens when you get yourself
in a hole. When you get yourself into a hole early,
you got to drop the shovel, but it's easy to

(01:22:07):
kind of trip back down. And that's the thing with
the Ravens, is the thing with the Chiefs. All of
a sudden, you know, you throw a bad pick at
an end of a game, and instead of being seven
and two, you're five and four, it's a big difference,
and that loss all of a sudden, you're like, damn,
we're six and six and we're two games behind the
sixth seed. They're not gonna win the division. The match

(01:22:28):
just really isn't on their side. So but there's nothing
wrong with not winning your division one year if you
end up with ten or eleven wins, and I would
still bet on them being ten or eleven wins. And
if they're playing Indye or they're playing Pittsburgh in the
first round, as like the three six, I think it's
fair to say there are gonna be a lot of
people that are gonna bet on the Chiefs. And I

(01:22:51):
bet against the Chiefs several times in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
I've been burned every single time.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
So when you do something over and over and you
just prove like this this is who we are, you get.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
To benefit the doubt.

Speaker 1 (01:23:03):
Right, your child that never does anything wrong gets straight,
A's like if she gets one sea, it's like, yeah,
dad just had a bad week.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
I totally understand.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
Like, it's hard to make excuses when you're constantly screwing
up all the time, right, And that's just not the
Chiefs like they have backed it up year in and
year out. So when they start showing signs of life
and trending in the right direction, it's like, well, look
who they played. Well, yeah, she didn't play everybody. They
played shiitted teams, good teams, great teams. They beat them
all regular season, playoffs, it hasn't matter. So yeah, I

(01:23:37):
give Andy and Patrick Mahomes a benefit of doubt. The
volume

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3 & Out - Dak Prescott & Dallas Cowboys UPSET by Arizona Cardinals on MNF

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