August 26, 2025 • 48 mins
John is joined by Derek Brown of FantasyPros to preview the NFL season. The guys dive into who they think are the most overhyped and underhyped players heading into the season, what should be expected from Christian McCaffrey this season, and where he sees the Houston Texans going.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Aloha everybody, How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is having
a good week as we lead in to Week one
of the college football season. Got the NFL, the National
Football League, right around the corner. Amari Cooper's on the
Raiders again. We've got Trey Hendrickson signing a contract. Terry
McLaurin officially puts ink to paper gets a little raise.
(00:37):
I guess it gets a contract extension out a raise.
We will dive into that a little bit later this week.
But on Friday, before I jumped on a bird and
flew to Hawaii, Aloha. Everybody I interviewed and talked with
interview would be strong. We just we besked about football.
Derek Brown from The Fantasy Pros, the number one fantasy
football podcast in America, not even close to their partners
(00:59):
with the So I said, you know what, let's talk
some ball. So I threw some theories through some different
guys and we just we talk players. I know a
lot of you guys, the majority of you guys are
big fantasy football guys. Whether you're in a dynasty league,
whether you're just in an auction league, whether you're in
a you play daily fantasy. We talk a lot of football,
(01:19):
So that will be the show today. Derek Brown Fantasy Pros.
That's it. So if you listen on Collins feed, make
sure you subscribe to three and Now podcast. If you
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covered YouTube and subscribed everything. But first before we dive in,
you know, we gotta tell you out my friends, my partners,
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(02:22):
I spell my name for twenty dollars off down in
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is guaranteed. Let's dive into the interview. Fired up because
I know a lot of my listeners Basically, I mean,
you can't find anyone that follows football that doesn't dabble
in fantasy football and Fantasy Pros is just an absolute
juggernaut on the podcast streets, and this is when they
(02:47):
make their hay for these next three or four months. Baby,
So very very fired up to have a member of
the Volume family, Derek Brown, member of the Fantasy Pros.
How you doing, man?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Doing good? Brother, It's been a long time since we've
hopped on the mics. The thing it was like pre
draft process, not last year, but the year before. And
so happy to be back on and talk a ball
with man. You're one of the sharpest in the space.
So glad to be doing this today.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, this time of year, there's a lot going on
right and you know, you guys look at it like
I look at it. Spent so much time press conferences,
training camp reports, knowing what and what not to balance
when it comes to preseason action. I just was looking
(03:30):
at your Twitter. You know, it's hard not to get
excited when you watch Jackson Dark play, right, but you
got a factor in from a fantasy standpoint, is like,
when is Jackson Dark in a play? And I was
texting with someone the other day. I remember I don't
know if you remember this, but the Raiders they signed
Matt Shop and it's like he was going to be
the starting quarterback for Dennis Allen and then they drafted
(03:52):
Derek Carr in the second round. Now it was picked
thirty five, so it's a couple, you know, seven eight
spots later in Jackson Dart. He played so well on
the preseason it was like what are we doing? And
he got to start right away? So we're recording this
on August twenty second. I would never say never with
this stuff, you know, and you know you don't. He's
(04:13):
not gonna have to announce it right for another week
and a half. But do you think something like that,
How do you approach like Jackson Dark? Cause if you
tell me he's a starter, I know their schedule's hard,
but why couldn't he throw twenty five touchdowns this year?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right? Oh? Absolutely? And plus he's gonna add that equity
with his legs. We saw that in college and in
the preseason, So I mean I so the problem is
Mintlkoff is like, looking at their schedule, it's like, where's
the easy spot where you lean him in? And then
they don't have a bye week into Week fourteen, So
it's like, if you're gonna toss the guy in, you're
probably just gonna have toss him into the deep end. Now,
(04:47):
I will say, I do think this comes down to
two big factors. One it's gonna be how does Russ play.
I think he's gonna start the year as a starter
where we're at right now because Russ didn't like look
like he fell on his face. But looking at their schedule,
I just keep looking at Week eleven versus the Green
Bay Packers, like it seems like a really good spot
to ease Jackson Darty. And now the problem with all
(05:09):
of this, and you know this as well as I do,
is now that Jackson Dark played well in the preseason,
if Russ doesn't start off great, and if this schedule
gets the better of the giants. How fast in that
type of media climate do we start hearing all the
calls for Jackson would never last that long, yeah, would exactly.
I agree. I agree, because the media is going to
go after immediately as soon as like Russ falters at all.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And you look, really the quarterbacks for the most part
over the last couple of years, like bow Knick's immediate started,
Caleb media started. Drake may should have been, but I
mean ended up playing what twelve games? You know, the
Penix things was weird. I mean, I would say in
most scenarios, a guy with his port, you know, resume
would have been an immediate starter. But they had just
given Cousins ninety million dollars. So you know, it's just now,
(05:55):
this is people are like Middlecloff talk the big time players.
So let's just let's just dive in to the most
overhyped and most under hyped. And I got an overhyped
guy for you, because I've been hearing this name for
a couple of years and it's like, I understand he's
really talented. I have a buddy here in Arizona that
I played golf with. It was a high school coach
and are a lot of blue chip guys come out here.
(06:17):
On his team, he had like Mark Andrews. He said,
by far, the best player I saw coaching was b
John Robinson. It was like he was like an NFL
player in high school. He's like he was incredible and
obviously gets drafted high and it's like he's gonna go
potentially number one in a lot of drafts and auctions.
Get pail. They just lost multiple offensive linemen this week,
(06:38):
and I heard someone say this that Michael Pennix in
his couple starts at the end, wasn't really big on
throwing him the ball. And if you watch Michael Penix,
he is you know he will sling that thing down
the field. He's not really I wouldn't call him check down. Charlie.
Is B John Robinson a little overhyped at this time
of the year right now, when especially when you factor
in the current situation with their with their offensive line injuries.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I don't think he's over hyped in the sense of
I mean again, I think you're splitting hairs when it
comes down to, like fantasy wise, like the top three
to five running backs and where we look at all
those guys. I think from the volume and the talent aspect.
I fully understand like all the offensive line stuff and
the questions about like his past game involvement, because we
know what Pennix wants to do. I go back to
(07:24):
two things, bijon, the talent profile and the volume are
going to sustain him regardless. Tyler Arsier is gonna have
his own standalone role, but with Penix. As far as
the pass game volume, I mean, Darnell Mooney is not
one hundred percent probably to start this year. I mean
we've gotten no great concrete reports on him from Raheem Morris,
and I get it, you know, like they don't have
to release anything at this time of the year, but
(07:45):
we know the two pillars of that offense are going
to be Drake Lunnon and b Jon Robinson, and that
offense is going to run through them. So I think,
like the volume and a talent standpoint, like even with
the offensive line concerns, I still think he's gonna be
a top three pick. And I get it, like, I mean,
he's still my R one overall. But I understand if
people want to poke holes.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
In it, who for you? You have an overhype guy
currently that a lot of people are talking about as
one of the top fantasy guys coming in that You're not.
You're a little luke warm on at this At this time.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Man, there's two different guys, and I want to get
your thoughts on these guys. And I think they both
had very middling kind of up and down rookie seasons.
Marvin Ierrison Junior, And this is right in your backyard,
Marvin Ierson Junior. I don't know, because in fantasy circles
he's being ranked as like a top twenty four wide receiver.
Everybody's back all in And I don't know if it's
just the name Cachet or what have you, but I'm like,
(08:37):
what about this entire situation changed from last year? Like
they didn't have any other receiving talent. Drew Petsing's still
calling the offense, and it was back and forth top
of usage, like it was like almost like they didn't
understand the player that they drafted. They were running them
on clear routes, a lot of vertical breaking stuff to
begin the season. That changed throughout the year. But his
mismatch with Kyler Murray isn't great either, because Kyler, from
(09:00):
the standpoint, I mean, he's basically kind of like dollar store.
Russ two point zero doesn't utilize the field and he's
got to get out out of the pocket to really
utilize the middle of the field. It's like, I don't
know what's changed with him. And then Examer Worthy, like
he didn't really pop last year until the Rashi Rice
Roll was dumped in his lap. When Rice was out
for the whole season, his separation metrics are not great, Like, yes,
(09:22):
Rice is going to miss time, but there's nothing analytically
that I could point to outside of Oh, it's Patrick
Mahomes one of his receiving weapons, and he's a second
year wide receiver and he runs will be fast to
get really hyped up about these guys, So like, I
think they're over hyped currently where they're at, where they're
going in drafts, But what do you think about them
if you want to.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Start with start with Worthy. You know, Mahomes has talked
about in this training camp of having more of an
emphasis of pushing the ball down the field. Obviously, you know,
given their situation, he would be the guy he's essentially
talking about because of the speed. We have seen Andy
deal with players like this. You know, Deshaun was just
(10:02):
a better player. I mean, but you know, sky Moore
was drafted really high or relatively high, right early mid
second round. It was a blazer, but it could never
really worked right or you know the guy thought about
it like that. So the one thing with the Chiefs
has been a little hit or miss. I do think
that they will figure that out. I mean, they don't
have a choice as Travis ages. I mean they they
(10:23):
drafted him at the end of the first round, didn't
they trade up if I remember correctly, with the Bills, right,
it'll flip to get him. So I again, where he
like where you would draft him, It would not shock me.
I don't know from a catch standpoint, is he going
to have like eighty catches? But I could see him
having seven eight touchdowns. You know, that's in utilizing him
(10:45):
in different schematically. Who's the other guy you said to
open up with?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Marvin Errison Junior.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Here's my thing. And I remember a buddy of mine
that coaches for wide receivers for an NFL team said,
because he thought he was a little overhype coming out,
not that he was a bad play or whatever, but
talking about like some generational talent. Yep, he's like, he
is gonna go up against which he did not in
the Big Ten most weeks or decent amount of times,
(11:10):
a pro Bowl level corner because he's going to be
their number one guy, and that guy is gonna be
late twenties, maybe married with multiple kids, with a big
ass house and making a ton of money, and that
guy's a badass. And Marvin in the Big Ten, it's
not the SEC in terms of the defensive secondary personnel
wasn't really tested like that. And even his dad said,
(11:32):
because I remember watching an interview with Marvin Senior and
Marvin Junior, So the difference between me and my son
is when I'm not getting the ball, I am lighting
the OC and Peyton up and like that's my personality.
I'm aggressive and he's like, my son just is quiet.
And that was the wide receivers coach's point is like
that's not really his personality, like a Jamar Chase, like
a Justin Jefferson, just like some of the great Deebo Samuel,
(11:55):
like give me the rock, it's not really his thing.
And then this lachirping too, he gets ticked off. He
didn't get the vault. I think most people Marvin was safe.
And I remember how a personnel guy tell me the
reason that the before that draft, the reason he would
take Marvin over Malik. Leak's just a little bit of
a wild guard. But the talent, like it's wasn't the same.
(12:18):
Marvin's a great.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Route runner, He's got a lot like his dad.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Right, But then he comes in this offseason now he's
all jacked, He's added a bunch of muscle. I'm with you.
I think again he's a good player. I do think
the hype because of the name obviously was drafted really high.
Now he was gonna get drafted in any draft in
the top fifteen ish. But when you go, like what
do you go? Four people just expect to see you know,
(12:42):
Jamar Chase, Julio Jones. And it's just that's that's more
Malik neighbors from a talent standpoint, right, And Kyler's not
Philip Rivers or you know, Peyton Mann. He's not gonna
pick you apart. Like it's really more of just kind
of gun sling and run around. I'm out on the
Cardinals just as a team, especially offensively because of him. Now,
(13:04):
Trey McBride, he's going to get his numbers. But if
you put Trey McBride, like you put him on the
Chiefs or something, he'd be like, he canna catch one
hundred and twenty passes, right, dude. They do have some talent.
But and that's you know, Kyler's an interesting fantasy guy
because I heard I was listening to something and he's
had over when he's healthy, Like he has productive seasons, right,
because he throws some touchdowns, he runs around. But it's
(13:26):
like he's actually an interesting fantasy player, but he's not
a good He's good, I guess, but he's not like
a winning NFL player. I would say we're Jalen Hurts
for example. I mean, I mean he's got to be
one of the better fantasy quarterbacks currently right.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Oh, absolutely, Jalen Hurts his top five and pretty much
any aspect or rankings that you'll find. And I agree
with you on Kyler and just the thing with and
I want to clarify, yes, I'm absolutely all in on
Trey McBride, all draft James Connor where he goes in
fantasy circles. But the other parts of that offense, like
Marvin Harrison Junior, Kyler, people can miss me with him
it's just I think Kyler is who we know who
(14:05):
he is at this point of his career. It's he'll
have the spike weeks when the matchups are there, but
the volatility week to week is just absolutely maddening. And
a lot of that comes down to just how he
plays quarterback. Man like, it's just not consistent. He's not
running the offense on a consistent basis, getting one to
two to three utilize in the middle of the field.
So it's just too volatile for me.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I got an under hype guy because I like Seattle
this year. I think they're gonna be pretty good. And
you know, obviously you know Jackson Smith is a guy.
Maybe that's who you don't think I was gonna say,
but I'm not. I mean, I think he's an excellent player.
He's gonna have a big year. He's gonna have a
great career. But I don't think anyone's really talking about
Cooper Cup who I think sometimes he wan wide receivers
(14:48):
a little older guys that have been banged up a
little bit. I mean, this happens in the NFL at
any position. A former All Pro former, whatever has a
weird year. A couple weird years because of injuries and
then still has like one more like one song, maybe
a couple of years with someone else. The Ravens have
made a living off these type guys over the years.
But Cooper Cup, I think if you just pulled the
(15:10):
average guy, like what was this season like, you'd be like,
you got like twenty five balls last year got sixty seven,
had sixty seven catches in six touchdowns. We know Sam
Donald likes to sling that thing around, we saw him
last year. And the offense which is Kubiak, which is
a Shanahan thing, which you know McVeigh runs a little
bit different, but still has a lot of the same things.
Like if he stays healthy, who's to say that Cooper
(15:31):
Cup couldn't have seventy five eighty catches and I don't know,
seven to nine touchdowns. I mean, I just think no
one's talking about him. If you like Seattle, which I
think they're gonna be good this year, I would expect
Cooper Cup because Jackson Smith is no brainer, right. But
if you think Sam Donald is going to continue just
to play solid, he's a pretty interesting fantasy guy that
(15:51):
you wouldn't have to spend much money on. Or you
could draft really late.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I don't disagree at all, and I was really surprised
when I got deep into my right offseason how good
he was on a per route basis. It just comes
back down to the health man. Can he stay healthy.
If he could stay healthy, I mean, everything he put
up on the field last year, he still has the juice.
I mean, like his per route metrics were still fantastic
two point one yards per route run. And the thing
(16:17):
that opened my eyes metal Coff was it wasn't just
the per route analytics. It was the fact that if
you go deeper agnostic of quarterback play, this guy was
actually in separation and route win rate metrics even better
as a boundary wide receiver than he was from the
slot last year. So what that tells me is like,
if he's healthy, he still got the juice where he
(16:39):
was top twenty four in separation and route win rate
for as a boundary wide receiver last year, which I'm
kind of curious, how much do you think he plays
on the outside this year, because I think Seattle's going
to run a lot of twelve, maybe some twenty one
personnel more condensed formations with Kubiak there now Elijah Royal
aj Barner. Do you think they're going to run a
lot of twelve and twenty one this year? Well? Who
(17:01):
fifties been.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I've read some reports like they've been moving Jackson around
a little bit, right because I think when he came out,
people are like, he's just going to be the next
elite slot receiver. Like I think they think he's good enough,
like he's gonna be the total package.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Kind of like I mean, Cooper Cup can do everything.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
They're kind of similar. You know, he will ideally want
to become a Cooper Cup like player, can do it
all rely on in big games. Yeah, I mean I
think wouldn't shock me at all. I mean, they're gonna
want to run the ball. Wasn't that a big issue
they had with Ryan Grubb as he can be a
little pass happy and didn't run the ball. Now, can
Kenneth Walker stay healthy? You know, sharbon A has had
(17:37):
a pretty good They got some interesting guys from a
fantasy perspective. If their offense is good, they have a
lot of guys that could be pretty productive. Right, sharbon
A could be a big, physical goal line back and
maybe they might just give him the ball no matter
what I love Kenneth Walker. Can he stay healthy? I
think both these two wide receivers who are the who
are their tight ends?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
AJ Barner and Elijah Royal. Yeah so I think. I mean,
Runner's gonna be your inline guy or Royo is gonna
be your slot guy. They're gonna play mismatches, probably get
him down the scene with as athletic as he is,
even though we didn't get testing metrics. I mean, dude,
I saw that guy just absolutely like a viscerate corners, linebackers,
everybody like you can all like I could walking away
(18:16):
from Senior Bowl and mobile last year, this let this
past season, he arguably had like one of the most
impressive weeks out of anybody down there, Like nobody could
guard him.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I've said this forever. If their head coach, instead of
being a defensive guru, was a Shanahan guy or an
Andy Reid guy, we'd be talking about this team a
lot differently. But we just agree discriminate against defensive guys,
and we all agree, like this guy's pretty freaking sharp
defensive mind. And you just their talent on their team
is now their tackle position, you know, offensive line wise,
(18:49):
you know Sam Kenny, it was at a one year
wonder situation, the situation was perfect. But I think this
situation is pretty good.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
This is the also the carryover of understanding going from
Kyle to O'Connell to then Kubiak who was with them
with Kyle. It's just it's a pretty easy landing spot
for him, kind of his breakout year. Then he goes
to get paid. It's not like he's just going to Randoms,
right yep.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And I agree with you too. And I don't think
a lot of people, off the top of their heads
could tell you Seattle win ten games last year and
this team. I mean, if Dar won teven the last three,
I think people think they've just got to suck like
they have. Pete Carroll got fired or quit or whatever happened.
They were not a three win team. He won nine
that year. M h well. And the other thing like
(19:35):
where do you put their defense? I think their defense
is going to take a huge shit Like they're probably
gonna be a top top what top seven, top ten
at least unit this year.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Probably good dbs. They have a ton, right, a ton.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And they added Emon Warry in the draft. Like when
he hits the ground running, if all those physical tools.
Like I know he's a little bit rough around the edges,
but he hits the ground running in this system. Like
you're talking about a guy that could step up and
maybe like back half of this seas he's their Kyle Hamilton,
like their mismatch, like chess piece. That defense is gonna
be nasty.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Well, because Leonard Williams is probably one of the more
least talked about, like really really high end guys. He's
kind of turned into like probably similar age but like
a buckner, like no one just they're not the sex
siest players, but they're just really really good. The rivalries,
(20:26):
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(21:11):
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Speaker 2 (22:18):
You know, and speaking of that division, you know McCaffrey,
who when he's healthy, is probably one of the greatest
fantasy players of all time, right especially with Kyle. He's
like a matchmate in heaven. But you know, last year
I kept saying, like everyone's overblowing this, He'll be fine,
He'll be fine, And then I thought he was fine,
and then was like Friday, he got soreness, and then
he ended up not playing Sunday, and then the rest
is history. So he's an interesting guy. Night he's been healthy,
(22:42):
and like him and Kittle, obviously they're gonna have to
rely on I still think their offense is going to
be okay. They have some wide receiver issues, but to
me that would even add to like him and Kittle,
just if you.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Tell me those guys are healthy this season.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Kiddle I feel pretty good about. But McCaffrey, I just
don't see how they don't. Both of them don't have
massive seasons.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Oh, I agree, wholeheartedly. And I want to get your
thoughts on Ricky Piersoll because Beasts, I think like last
year was oh same same, I'm all in on him
this year, like I keep bumping him higher and higher
my ranks. I just watched all of his All twenty
two from the preseason this past Sunday, and you can
see on the preseason, and I know it's a limited sample,
(23:25):
but you could see with the chemistry between him and
Purty like he was running across or through zone I
think it was week two of the preseason instead of
yeah yeah, and instead of him getting washed out in
the zone coverage, he stops and he sits down in
his own coverage And I'm like, that's it, baby, that's exactly.
That's pointing to chemistry that's reps in the off season
(23:46):
making it to the field so extreme. I'm over the
moon with Peerce.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I think the worry with him is, you know, separate
him getting shot, even though I think they just traded
for Brian Robinson who was also shot, so they got
the all shot team right now they got which is
why they liked it. I mean, those guys are both
you know, Ricky's a tough guy. But physically like he's
had some hamstring issues. He had a you know, shoulder
issue that I was listening to some of my guys
(24:11):
do a local podcast that there was a practice the
other day and he fell on it and he was
like grimacing. Now he he didn't like leave practice or anything,
but it's just when he plays seventeen games, I don't first,
you know, so we got that. That would be my worry.
If you tell me he's healthy, perty's gonna him and
Kittle would just go nuts in the passing game, those
two guys especially, who knows what Ayuke's gonna be. But
(24:33):
you know, now you could argue most of these wide
receivers just around the league, a lot of them get
dinged up. A lot the high end guys. I mean
the Eagles, both their guys get banged up. We got
Malik Dagbors, he's banged up. You know, Jamar Chase somewhat
of an outlier, fully healthy last year, right, Jefferson's been
banged up. So it's one of those positions that like,
if I tell you all these guys that I just
(24:53):
listed play all the time seedee Lamp, they'll put up
huge numbers. But at any moment. These guys, they're like
a I don't know, you know sports cars that you
get a ding on it, you got to go in
all of a sudden, it's a ten grand to like
fill in like a little putty on the side of
the Ferrari. And there are a lot of them. I mean,
the league is loaded with wide receivers, But like, is
(25:15):
there a guy from a value because we all know
the sexy big names, but is there a guy that
in the top tennis that's like, ah, I wasn't really
thinking about him because I think i Uk a couple
of years ago became that guy, right, he had a
big season. Is there a guy that's not Chase or
Seed Lamb? You're like, I like that, dude, Man, I
keep going.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Back, then we'll go back, We'll circle back to the Falcons.
I think this is the monster Drake London season incoming.
I think everything's lining up for him. He's like really
hit his stride last year with Robinson throwing him inside,
giving him more easy design looks, a little more slot work,
him stepping forward as the clear guy out of this
Arthur Smith nonsense over the last few years, and if
(25:57):
Pennix can be the guy that we think he can be. Collectively.
The other thing that I think gives Drake London it's
not only the volume, it's not only the fact that
he's gonna be a centerpiece of the offense. It's we're
gonna get downfield usage and we haven't seen that over
the last few years because of the quarterback play last
year being limiting and in previous years. We're gonna get
some Drake like back shoulder bombs down the field from
(26:19):
Michael Pennox. And I'm excited, man, I'm excited. I think
he's gonna step into some rarefied air. He might lead
the NFL on targets this year.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, totally. I mean, I we'll find out. We can
talk about the Bears like it with Ben Johnson going
there as arrow pointing up and with the Lions is
their arrow pointing down. But you know, I was thinking
about this. I saw was the second preseason game where
Rome had a bad drop and I was like, I
liked Rome a lot, but is there a chance like
he was actually overrated? And it was like Pennix, you know,
(26:47):
it's like the reverse of Mike Evans and Johnny Manziel,
where Mike Evans kind of made Johnny did Pennix kind
of make a row because I'm watching Rome, Like God,
I thought this guy was really good and I don't know,
I'm rooting for him. I'm a fan, but he makes
me a little nervous.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
He makes me a little nervous too. And I've been
largely below consensus compared to a lot of other people
in the fantasy space on the Bears offense, Like, I
get the Ben Johnson steam, I understand it, but I
have my own standalone concerns about Caleb Williams. We haven't
seen him support even one high end weapon. I understand
the problems of that offense and all this stuff about
(27:21):
Shane Waldron and stuff like, I still don't think enough
people lay things at Caleb Williams's feet last year for
how rough his rookie season went totally and they're just
expecting Ben Johnson to come in here, and I'm like,
I think Caleb can have a solid season if he
can just run the freaking offense, and if he does that,
he can have a solid season. But if he does,
he might not live up to the hype where people
(27:42):
walk away from this year and say, oh, Caleb took
a step forward, but it still didn't meet my expectations.
And I'm with you on Rome, like I can't point
to an analytical reason to really believe in rollm of
doone saying I loved him as a prospect. But again,
like once you hit the NFL, maybe our preconceptions or
how we viewed as a prospect needs to changed a
little bit. Whenever these guys are running against NFL competition.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I agree. And if if Rome, I mean people he
was drafted what ninth or tenth, ninth? I think, like
the expectations when you're drafted in the first round alone,
Like it's like I say this about Ricky Pearson like
he was a first round pick. I know it was
the end of the first round, but or xavier' Worthy's
that's a big pick for these teams that were just
in the Super Bowl. That's their first asset in the draft.
(28:24):
When you are a top ten twelve pick at wide receiver,
the expectation is for you to be a pro Bowl
level guy. And you know, we might look back. It's
like Marvin's got some issues, Rome's got some issue. Malik
neighbors in a different universe than those guys. Which you know,
it was kind of I mean, some people were saying that,
and I think a lot of people push back, but
the Lions that there's no disputing Ben is really freaking good.
(28:48):
And like you said, the Kleb, he's got a little
Russell Deshaun Watson to his game. And that's not how
Ben Johnson became a star with Jared Goff who can't
move more than me or you. So it's like that's
why you look at the lines. You're like, are they
just so good? Even with Johnny Morton, who's kind of
got a weird career trajectory. Like all these coaches in
the league grooed in Sean Payton, Dan Campbell, they love
(29:11):
the guy. It's like, well, in this day and age,
it's pretty hard not to become a pretty sweet offensive
coordinator and get these jobs all the time. He's like,
he's never getting these jobs. So I get Dan Campbell
has known him for a while and makes him the
offensive coordinator, But I don't know. I mean, it's just
that there is something to be said about some people
just better play callers, regardless of the players, right, you
(29:33):
just have an innate feel If you're Kevin O'Connell, Kyle McVeigh,
Sean Payton, Andy Reid. We see a lot of these
guys are like, I don't know, he just it's not
even much about the players. He has no feel for
the game. And that's what I always get worried about
whenever you make a big coordinator change and you don't
have a guy that. We've seen it with the Eagles, right,
I mean, when it's good, it's good. When it's bad,
it's bad.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yep. Yeah, I don't disagree about Morton at all, And
I just don't even know.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I don't even know where I yeah, and I don't
real even have a strong take. I just.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I think it was an I think it was more
of a familiarity because if you trace all like Morton
and Campbell's Winding Road through the NFL, both of them
come from that Sean Payton Tree, both of them were
on the same staff in New Orleans, and I think
part of it was that, So the familiarity, there's a
relationship there. I'm a little bit higher on the Lions
in that transition. Now I'm just like ragnow getting hurt.
(30:26):
Some of the other parts of pieces, like Zeitler's gone
to the O line people have questions about. Now the
Lions have done a good job of, like with their
draft picks, kind of insulating themselves from some of these things,
but still change has changed, and especially O line continuity
is huge when you do have a statue type of quarterback,
he ain't moving off the spot and not creating a
ton off schedule. He needs that offensive line to make
(30:48):
that wall for him. I am a little bit higher
on the Lions or I'm not projecting as much regression
as some people. Not everybody, not because of Ben Johnson
and not giving him his flowers and respect. But I
also go back to like Dan Campbell is an offensive
minded head coach, and I think because of the raw
ra ra rub some dirt on it that kind of
gets lost in the conversation sometimes of like his background
(31:10):
as a tight end offensive assistant and stuff like that.
Now he's not calling the plays. And I think that
questions about Morton are are very fairer and it's a
reason to be concerned. But with all these players, like
at the talent levels of all them, like you really
got to screw this up, like big time, I think
to like fall in their face, like there's still gonna
be a really good offense. But the question is can
they Can they be a top three to five offense
(31:32):
this year with all of the circle, you know, can
I think it's I think it's still in the range
of outcomes. I think I comfortably still peg them, like
top ten, top five is gonna their O line is
gonna have to.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Produce who's your group top three to five that you
feel pretty confident moving forward. As far as NFL offenses, Yeah,
cause to me, that's how I kind of gauge you
your offensive suite. I'm just interested in your players. If
you got Josh Allen playing seventeen games, you're gonna have
some guys putting up some big stats. You got Lamar
Jackson obviously, Joe Burrow. Those are the three we've kind
of drawn to. If the line, if we just remove
(32:06):
the Lions, even if they just take a slight step back,
like you know, because the Chiefs haven't been there right
even though they've been one of the best teams the
forty nine or statistically last year were really good. They
just struggled to score points, which obviously is a problem
in fantasy. But I mean the I think Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yep, Philly is still in that conversation for top five definitely,
depending on what we get out of I mean, the
Lions are definitely in the fringe. You talked about the Vikings,
We got questions about JJ canny be who I hope
he could be, and everybody else. Man, I think, tell me,
tell me your thoughts on the Broncos, because I think
they're a team that really could break into that top
(32:44):
five conversation this year if Nicks takes that next level
of all the parts of pieces kind of coalesce and stuff,
Like we're hearing really good reports about Pat Bryant and
Troy Franklin and r J. Harvey, like they've injected a
lot of youth and explosiveness. Do you think they can
enter that top five conversation? How much easier is the
play offfense when your defense is really good? Oh dude,
their defense gonna be top five. Man, It's gonna be
(33:05):
so nasty, Like teams are gonna whether it's Certain or
Jday Baron locking dudes down and the Nickel teams are
gonna be frustrated going to Mile High this year.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I think they're gonna be really good.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Same.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I think they're gonna be I think the Chargers are
gonna come back to Earth a little bit.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Uh just I think the Broncos win the AFC West.
Is that a crazy take?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Three to one? Right now, here's the chief three to
one on DraftKings and you can get it.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I've already bet it. I've already bet it. Baby.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
It was actually higher and it's kind of come down
to shot like to start the pre to start the
training camp, and Sean Payton's basically just saying like, yeah,
I've been coaching for twenty five years, I've had been
around six teams. Is one of them than I think
can win it all? And I don't think if you
watch the Cowboys documentary, Jimmy would just talk sometimes to
talk to kind of. I think Sean Payton truly believes it.
Like he's not saying he is not bullshitting. He loves
(33:51):
bo Nicks. Nope, he loves this team. He likes the group.
I mean if you watched him last year, I mean
you could just kind of see it coming. They just
needed Adam up more pieces. But team speed wise, their
defense is fast and physical, their pass rush is excellent,
their dbs are good. What's the do they disdrafted from
Texas in the first round. I saw him make a
couple of plays in preseason learning yep, and like you said,
offensively now he is he over hyping the running back
(34:14):
a little bit from UCF. He loves them.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I was a big RJ. Harvey stand pre draft. I
had him inside of my top five RBS, so I
was in on it. I think a lot of people
were pushed off because of the age and you know,
the ACL history and stuff. But skill set wise, he
checks a ton of boxes. Man, Like he's he's got
some high end pass game reps. H if you go
back in his collegiate history and stuff, I think he
(34:40):
can definitely play in the past game. Pass pro is
probably the biggest worry with him. But Peyton's even come
out and said, like, look like I think it's one
of the reasons why they added Dobbins. I think it's
gonna be Harvey on on especially like first and second down,
and Dobbin's coming in on third down, so like, Harvey's
gonna run his routes on those early downs. But I'm
in on Harvey. I definitely love him.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
What's your thoughts on the Texans because I mean defensively,
know they're going to be really good offensively, you make
the offensive coordinator change CJ. I would say relative to
his rookie obviously had a rough year. Nico's a absolute monster.
You know, if he's healthy, you know, tanks careers probably
in some jeopardy after the devastating I mean it's hard
to even think about watching him land on the ground
(35:32):
because he was a stud. But you know, last year
I thought they I like picked him to be the
one seed. I had a little juice on them, like
e to one. It might have been a year early
because I think their defense going to dominate and offensively
if they're just solid. If you look at that division,
could they be a you know, a CJA guy throwing
thirty five touchdowns this year?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I think you were in a year early. I think
we were all a year early. I absolutely agree with
everything you outline there, and I think like their defense
is going to be a top five it this year.
I mean they are just stacked everywhere you look. Last
and a hitting the ground running last year was a
big big win for them where they got him in
the draft, adding a few more parts in pieces of
that secondary. Their pass rush is nasty. I've got a
(36:14):
few tickets on Will Anderson for Defensive Player of the Year,
so I'm in on him taking another step forward this year.
Oh god, man, I think yeah, it was. It was
really good odds, really good odds. Like if I could
double it down, I would even I'd press the button
even right now. So anybody listen to this, you know,
head to the books, press it now, man, because he's
(36:36):
a guy like everything COOLESA is Like we're talking about
high end sack numbers, Like could post some outrageous sack
numbers considering all the other d line talent there. But
the offense is where it all comes down to, Like
that that's the ceiling element of this team. Could CEJ
bounce back, and really everybody the first thing out of
their mouth is going to be their offensive line. And
(36:57):
I just want their offensive line to be league average,
and I think that's possible. I'm not saying like I
love the parts or pieces, but middlicoff. We also lived
in a world last year where a lot of these
same dudes were on this depth chart last year yea,
and everybody wasn't worried about their offensive line until they cratered.
So like adding these parts or pieces to it. I
(37:18):
think they're just looking at this as like a sum
of the parts, and if they can play better as
like a unit and the continuity is there, then if
we get league average play with the other. Again, this
is a team that added a bunch of firepower as
far as through the passing game. Like I love Jayden
Higgins as a prospect. Jalen Nole was my guy throughout
the entirety of the draft process, and so you have
(37:39):
insulation there if Kurt goes down, like I think they're
ready to roll on offense, they just need the blocking
up front to be average.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I think a lot of people place the blame, I
mean clearly on the offensive coordinator is he just did
not do a good job and then it kind of
unraveled and they lost their confidence or whatever, and it
kind of just it just started looking worse and worse
as season went on. Ye that they think the cohesion,
I mean, play calling, Let's face it, you can make
I mean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan haven't exactly had like
(38:07):
the mid nineties Cowboys offensive lines over the years, right,
So you can't you can scheme around Like to me,
you can't it's hard to scheme like sweet pass rushers.
You either got Will Anderson or Nick Bosa or a Hutchson.
You could scheme around some random offensive linemen, but you
can also those guys can expose you fast. I want
to get you out of here that I got two
teams that I think are huge swing teams, the Colts.
(38:29):
If you tell me they went ten and seven, and
Daniel Jones resurrection's career, I bet Tyler Warren, Jonathan Taylor. Hell,
even Daniel Jones probably has a pretty good fantasy year.
If you tell me they could win six to seven games,
I'd be like, I'd stay away from that group. Same
thing with the Rams, which is obviously predicated on a
guy's back. So it's a little dip. We know Stafford
wins on the field, it's gonna be good. But if
(38:49):
you tell me, you know Stafford's back, he played four games,
It's like, I'm Jimmy Garoppolo, I'm sorry, I'm out on
that situation. It's Stet's been att two like, I'm.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
No chance, and I love McVeigh, but let's start with
the Colts.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Your thoughts on their situation.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
We're sitting here by the time I put this out
on Monday.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I think Anthony Rigson gets traded before the season because
I don't think you can have to.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
You just can't. It's just, you know, the locker room
dynamic's no going back. No, there's no going back. You've
benched the guy and now you've you picked a journeyman
starter over him, and it's like, dude, it's like, like,
I don't I'm not saying the vibes have been good,
like about is his dedication and work and some of
the things you can kind of read to the tea leaves,
But it's like, also, it's like, did you not understand
(39:33):
who you were drafting? Like a guy that didn't have
a lot of starts, a lot of reps and stuff.
He needed that time to grow. And then the injuries
and stuff, and then it's like we're worried about our
jobs and then the suboptimal decision making comes in where
it's like now we need it. We're coaching for our
jobs and stuff, and we're facing our hope on Daniel Hilling.
I see.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I think a lot of times when this stuff happens
because I I when I was living in the Bay,
I saw with Trey Lance yep. I think back in
the day, like the eighties or the nineties, like if
did call were to do this or ourselves, like the
locker room has no influence. I think nowadays, I bet
the players are telling Shane like you know they're there
because you don't hear a peep. When all the Trey
(40:13):
Lance stuff happened with Purty, they all were like, no,
it's different because I mean they truly believed in Purty.
I don't know if they believe in Daniel Jones, Trent Williams,
Fred Warner, Deebo, Samuel they were all on they wanted
it right ye in this situation. I just think that
I wonder iful a lot of players internally kind of
gave up on them last year during that situation when
he tapped out and it's like is Shane Stike and
(40:35):
just pulling going rogue? Like they're like on the fence,
We'll go with either guy. I think I think there
are locker room dynamics more than ever in the modern
day pro sports, and you kind of listen to your
star players and they're cool with it. I'm with you,
like big picture, you should have known. But the problem
is when a guy's always injured, it's impossible to develop them. Yeah,
now we're year three and we think we have like
(40:56):
a playoff level roster. It's like, what are we gonna do?
It's just the he should have gone to a really crappy,
shitty team, right, it's to just keep Jacksonville or Arizona.
You just keep rolling out. Ye when you think you're
a playoff team, it's hard to do this year in
year out.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I don't disagree with you. And it's tough when the
guy gets hurt and then he can't get the reps
even U forecast that are wanted for him. But like,
if Daniel Jones can just be a league average quarterback
like and Shane Stocking and can like look like just
scheme around him with all the parts of pieces, like,
this team could win ten to eleven games this year
because I think their defense could take a step forward too,
(41:33):
like changing over DC's You have a lot of young
guys there, especially in their their D line that could
take another step toward this year. And if that happens, yeah,
we're talking about they're they're literally the entire rest of
this roster is carrying Daniel Jones to ten or eleven wins.
I wouldn't be shocked with that. I also wouldn't be
shocked if Daniel Jones just like implodes and he's, you know,
(41:55):
Blake Bortles two point zero and this d and this
team looks rough and everything goes side ways and Baward
and Styching are gone by, you know, the back half
of the season. I think there's a wide range of
outcomes for the Colts just in general.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
We if I gave him like Jared Goff or Brock
Purdy on the Colts their starting court, you would like
that roster. Well, twelve wins, Yeah, twelve wins. I'd say
the same thing about it. I'd say the same thing
about probably the Arizona Cardinals. If I gave them like
a consistent quarterback, I think they'd be pretty good. The Rams,
to me, they're a little more like an NBA team
that's been top heavy. Now they're getting better. They've drafted
(42:28):
really well the last couple of years, so they've had
the youth movement. But like when Stafford's on that they
become a really really good team. And when he's off,
I mean, people sometimes talk about the Rams. I've been
saying this for like a month like there's they were
been some twelve and thirteen win juggernaut these last couple years,
Like they've won ten games, you know. I mean Seattle
had the same record as them. It's just Sam Darnold,
you know, throw that touchdown in the corner of the
(42:49):
end zone late in the season and then in their
playoff hopes. But I mean, if that guy drops it
or Sam trips, Seattle wins a division. So I think
the Rams are a massive wild guard. If you tell
me Stafford play seventeen games the back, no big deal.
It's like, Okay, Puka's gonna catch off. Puka's hundred catches,
fifteen touchdowns. If you tell me Jimmy Garoppolo starts twelve,
it's like, ugh, this could get weird.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
It really could. And Stafford is the lynchpin like everything
that team is gonna go where the quarterback play goes.
And yes, I mean, like dude, like if Jimmy g
make starts, then it's also like do we go back
to the Devonte Adams like cussing him out on the
sideline by throwing hospital balls like that. That's firmly in
play too. But if Stafford's healthy, and I think there's
the two big question marks from that team and the
range of outcomes is Stafford's health and I just back
(43:36):
injuries just scare the ever loving big Jesus out of me. Man,
Like where it's like you got you got an epidural,
You're like feeling okay enough to practice. How are you
feeling a week six when the hits start piling up
and that that that aged body and that back starts
barking at you and it's hard to get six. Bro.
They open with Houston, I mean what if he gets
(43:57):
leveled in that game? I mean you know, if you're
Demiko Ryans, You're just gonna blitz the ever loving crap
out of them and say, okay o line, hope you
can hold up because we're bringing the heat. Baby. But yes,
like this is an eleven or twelve win team if
Stafford is healthy and the secondary can hold up, because
you got a huge question marks there. Kenna Kello Witherspoon,
(44:19):
he's awesome when he's on the field. I mean his
entire career, he's been unable to stay healthy. So it's
like they are another wide range of outcomes, Like I
have some.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Have a Jimmy G belief I mean enough to run
the offense, but like he's he's a floor pick, like
you're just hoping, like he doesn't get any of your
wide receivers just absolutely decapitated over the middle if he's playing,
and you probably go run heavy and that's what we see,
like them lean on the run game and it goes
(44:51):
like conservative.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
But I'll kind of tie some things together here, middle
Coff before we wrap all this up, Like, do you
think the Rams there's a non zero chance, like could
they trade for Anthony Richardson seeing as we're talking about
a trade.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, to me, it's I think Anthony Richardson is in
play for all the good sweet offensive coaches like Sean
Payton would not be interested because he's got a young quarterback,
but Andy Reid obviously Sean McVay the Bills wouldn't fit
that model. Like the Ravens with Lamar. You know, it's
like Andy Ridge is a backup now, so you don't
even need to worry about him, like you're just on
(45:23):
the side grinding with you. I think one hundred percent.
Now he's a value like can I get you for
like a fifth or sixth rounder? Like I don't think
you see any of these teams giving up anything, because
when you were on the fourth pick, you do make
some money as well. But I the first two names
that came to my mind were Andy Reid and Sean McVay, cause, like,
(45:43):
what we I'm not even worried about you playing, and
I just, you know, when we got a little downtime
during the week, we're working with you on the side.
You just we're just kind of messing with you. But
I do think financially, the more and more I've thought
about it, it's a little complicated because when you're the
fourth overall pick, it's you know, it's like seven eight,
nine million dollars. What's he in year three? Now it
gets a little higher as it's it's not like he's
(46:05):
the twenty like Jackson Dart's contract and his contracts are
dramatically different, right, It's like what we saw with Jerry Jones.
I also think people look back at Jerry Jones trading
for Trey Lance a fourth it's like, God, that was
a lot, you know, because they you know that was
that was a that was a mistake at the time.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
That's a lot of Jerry trades. He just he just
spends those forts like are going out of business.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
So to me, what's the value on it? What's the
value on Anthey Ridgeton, Like, could they even get a fifth?
I mean that's.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Fifth or like a pick swap like Richardson and a
pick swap for a fifth. I mean it kind of feels.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, or maybe I got a guy that I'm gonna
cut that you want I trade you a player type
of deal. He wouldn't go and listen, people are like,
well the Colts, No, the Colts missed. It's over so
you just you just have to remove them. It's not
there's no value coming back. You drafted them fourth overall
it failed. You can't there is no value there, right.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
You're not getting the equity back on that.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
No, So yeah, I could see death. Sean mcvah Andy
Reid were the two guys that I thought of, But
I guess the Ravens from a scheme standpoint, maybe they
because a lot of people liked them coming out, right,
But like you said, we sometimes like we have enough evidence,
like we can't just view what we viewed whenever the
guy was drafted three years later, like a lot's changed.
(47:19):
So uh so, yeah, well, enjoy all your drafts all
your ever everything going on, and enjoy the season, man,
and we'll definitely be in touch you guys. Keep crushing man,
because I was with Coward the other day and I've
heard about you guys and years before you even came on.
You guys, uh do some big, big numbies on that podcast.
(47:41):
So congrats and keep it rolling.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Appreciate it, man, Appreciate the time talking ball. I mean,
you're one of the sharpest in the business. Anytime we
have a chance to sit her and hop on the
mics and talk football, it's a good day.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Talk soon, bro, Enjoy the weekend.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Appreciate you
The volume.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Aloha everybody, How are we doing? Hopefully everyone is having
a good week as we lead in to Week one
of the college football season. Got the NFL, the National
Football League, right around the corner. Amari Cooper's on the
Raiders again. We've got Trey Hendrickson signing a contract. Terry
McLaurin officially puts ink to paper gets a little raise.
(00:37):
I guess it gets a contract extension out a raise.
We will dive into that a little bit later this week.
But on Friday, before I jumped on a bird and
flew to Hawaii, Aloha. Everybody I interviewed and talked with
interview would be strong. We just we besked about football.
Derek Brown from The Fantasy Pros, the number one fantasy
football podcast in America, not even close to their partners
(00:59):
with the So I said, you know what, let's talk
some ball. So I threw some theories through some different
guys and we just we talk players. I know a
lot of you guys, the majority of you guys are
big fantasy football guys. Whether you're in a dynasty league,
whether you're just in an auction league, whether you're in
a you play daily fantasy. We talk a lot of football,
(01:19):
So that will be the show today. Derek Brown Fantasy Pros.
That's it. So if you listen on Collins feed, make
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you know, we gotta tell you out my friends, my partners,
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is guaranteed. Let's dive into the interview. Fired up because
I know a lot of my listeners Basically, I mean,
you can't find anyone that follows football that doesn't dabble
in fantasy football and Fantasy Pros is just an absolute
juggernaut on the podcast streets, and this is when they
(02:47):
make their hay for these next three or four months. Baby,
So very very fired up to have a member of
the Volume family, Derek Brown, member of the Fantasy Pros.
How you doing, man?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Doing good? Brother, It's been a long time since we've
hopped on the mics. The thing it was like pre
draft process, not last year, but the year before. And
so happy to be back on and talk a ball
with man. You're one of the sharpest in the space.
So glad to be doing this today.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, this time of year, there's a lot going on
right and you know, you guys look at it like
I look at it. Spent so much time press conferences,
training camp reports, knowing what and what not to balance
when it comes to preseason action. I just was looking
(03:30):
at your Twitter. You know, it's hard not to get
excited when you watch Jackson Dark play, right, but you
got a factor in from a fantasy standpoint, is like,
when is Jackson Dark in a play? And I was
texting with someone the other day. I remember I don't
know if you remember this, but the Raiders they signed
Matt Shop and it's like he was going to be
the starting quarterback for Dennis Allen and then they drafted
(03:52):
Derek Carr in the second round. Now it was picked
thirty five, so it's a couple, you know, seven eight
spots later in Jackson Dart. He played so well on
the preseason it was like what are we doing? And
he got to start right away? So we're recording this
on August twenty second. I would never say never with
this stuff, you know, and you know you don't. He's
(04:13):
not gonna have to announce it right for another week
and a half. But do you think something like that,
How do you approach like Jackson Dark? Cause if you
tell me he's a starter, I know their schedule's hard,
but why couldn't he throw twenty five touchdowns this year?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Right? Oh? Absolutely? And plus he's gonna add that equity
with his legs. We saw that in college and in
the preseason, So I mean I so the problem is
Mintlkoff is like, looking at their schedule, it's like, where's
the easy spot where you lean him in? And then
they don't have a bye week into Week fourteen, So
it's like, if you're gonna toss the guy in, you're
probably just gonna have toss him into the deep end. Now,
(04:47):
I will say, I do think this comes down to
two big factors. One it's gonna be how does Russ play.
I think he's gonna start the year as a starter
where we're at right now because Russ didn't like look
like he fell on his face. But looking at their schedule,
I just keep looking at Week eleven versus the Green
Bay Packers, like it seems like a really good spot
to ease Jackson Darty. And now the problem with all
(05:09):
of this, and you know this as well as I do,
is now that Jackson Dark played well in the preseason,
if Russ doesn't start off great, and if this schedule
gets the better of the giants. How fast in that
type of media climate do we start hearing all the
calls for Jackson would never last that long, yeah, would exactly.
I agree. I agree, because the media is going to
go after immediately as soon as like Russ falters at all.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And you look, really the quarterbacks for the most part
over the last couple of years, like bow Knick's immediate started,
Caleb media started. Drake may should have been, but I
mean ended up playing what twelve games? You know, the
Penix things was weird. I mean, I would say in
most scenarios, a guy with his port, you know, resume
would have been an immediate starter. But they had just
given Cousins ninety million dollars. So you know, it's just now,
(05:55):
this is people are like Middlecloff talk the big time players.
So let's just let's just dive in to the most
overhyped and most under hyped. And I got an overhyped
guy for you, because I've been hearing this name for
a couple of years and it's like, I understand he's
really talented. I have a buddy here in Arizona that
I played golf with. It was a high school coach
and are a lot of blue chip guys come out here.
(06:17):
On his team, he had like Mark Andrews. He said,
by far, the best player I saw coaching was b
John Robinson. It was like he was like an NFL
player in high school. He's like he was incredible and
obviously gets drafted high and it's like he's gonna go
potentially number one in a lot of drafts and auctions.
Get pail. They just lost multiple offensive linemen this week,
(06:38):
and I heard someone say this that Michael Pennix in
his couple starts at the end, wasn't really big on
throwing him the ball. And if you watch Michael Penix,
he is you know he will sling that thing down
the field. He's not really I wouldn't call him check down. Charlie.
Is B John Robinson a little overhyped at this time
of the year right now, when especially when you factor
in the current situation with their with their offensive line injuries.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I don't think he's over hyped in the sense of
I mean again, I think you're splitting hairs when it
comes down to, like fantasy wise, like the top three
to five running backs and where we look at all
those guys. I think from the volume and the talent aspect.
I fully understand like all the offensive line stuff and
the questions about like his past game involvement, because we
know what Pennix wants to do. I go back to
(07:24):
two things, bijon, the talent profile and the volume are
going to sustain him regardless. Tyler Arsier is gonna have
his own standalone role, but with Penix. As far as
the pass game volume, I mean, Darnell Mooney is not
one hundred percent probably to start this year. I mean
we've gotten no great concrete reports on him from Raheem Morris,
and I get it, you know, like they don't have
to release anything at this time of the year, but
(07:45):
we know the two pillars of that offense are going
to be Drake Lunnon and b Jon Robinson, and that
offense is going to run through them. So I think,
like the volume and a talent standpoint, like even with
the offensive line concerns, I still think he's gonna be
a top three pick. And I get it, like, I mean,
he's still my R one overall. But I understand if
people want to poke holes.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
In it, who for you? You have an overhype guy
currently that a lot of people are talking about as
one of the top fantasy guys coming in that You're not.
You're a little luke warm on at this At this time.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Man, there's two different guys, and I want to get
your thoughts on these guys. And I think they both
had very middling kind of up and down rookie seasons.
Marvin Ierrison Junior, And this is right in your backyard,
Marvin Ierson Junior. I don't know, because in fantasy circles
he's being ranked as like a top twenty four wide receiver.
Everybody's back all in And I don't know if it's
just the name Cachet or what have you, but I'm like,
(08:37):
what about this entire situation changed from last year? Like
they didn't have any other receiving talent. Drew Petsing's still
calling the offense, and it was back and forth top
of usage, like it was like almost like they didn't
understand the player that they drafted. They were running them
on clear routes, a lot of vertical breaking stuff to
begin the season. That changed throughout the year. But his
mismatch with Kyler Murray isn't great either, because Kyler, from
(09:00):
the standpoint, I mean, he's basically kind of like dollar store.
Russ two point zero doesn't utilize the field and he's
got to get out out of the pocket to really
utilize the middle of the field. It's like, I don't
know what's changed with him. And then Examer Worthy, like
he didn't really pop last year until the Rashi Rice
Roll was dumped in his lap. When Rice was out
for the whole season, his separation metrics are not great, Like, yes,
(09:22):
Rice is going to miss time, but there's nothing analytically
that I could point to outside of Oh, it's Patrick
Mahomes one of his receiving weapons, and he's a second
year wide receiver and he runs will be fast to
get really hyped up about these guys, So like, I
think they're over hyped currently where they're at, where they're
going in drafts, But what do you think about them
if you want to.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Start with start with Worthy. You know, Mahomes has talked
about in this training camp of having more of an
emphasis of pushing the ball down the field. Obviously, you know,
given their situation, he would be the guy he's essentially
talking about because of the speed. We have seen Andy
deal with players like this. You know, Deshaun was just
(10:02):
a better player. I mean, but you know, sky Moore
was drafted really high or relatively high, right early mid
second round. It was a blazer, but it could never
really worked right or you know the guy thought about
it like that. So the one thing with the Chiefs
has been a little hit or miss. I do think
that they will figure that out. I mean, they don't
have a choice as Travis ages. I mean they they
(10:23):
drafted him at the end of the first round, didn't
they trade up if I remember correctly, with the Bills, right,
it'll flip to get him. So I again, where he
like where you would draft him, It would not shock me.
I don't know from a catch standpoint, is he going
to have like eighty catches? But I could see him
having seven eight touchdowns. You know, that's in utilizing him
(10:45):
in different schematically. Who's the other guy you said to
open up with?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Marvin Errison Junior.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Here's my thing. And I remember a buddy of mine
that coaches for wide receivers for an NFL team said,
because he thought he was a little overhype coming out,
not that he was a bad play or whatever, but
talking about like some generational talent. Yep, he's like, he
is gonna go up against which he did not in
the Big Ten most weeks or decent amount of times,
(11:10):
a pro Bowl level corner because he's going to be
their number one guy, and that guy is gonna be
late twenties, maybe married with multiple kids, with a big
ass house and making a ton of money, and that
guy's a badass. And Marvin in the Big Ten, it's
not the SEC in terms of the defensive secondary personnel
wasn't really tested like that. And even his dad said,
(11:32):
because I remember watching an interview with Marvin Senior and
Marvin Junior, So the difference between me and my son
is when I'm not getting the ball, I am lighting
the OC and Peyton up and like that's my personality.
I'm aggressive and he's like, my son just is quiet.
And that was the wide receivers coach's point is like
that's not really his personality, like a Jamar Chase, like
a Justin Jefferson, just like some of the great Deebo Samuel,
(11:55):
like give me the rock, it's not really his thing.
And then this lachirping too, he gets ticked off. He
didn't get the vault. I think most people Marvin was safe.
And I remember how a personnel guy tell me the
reason that the before that draft, the reason he would
take Marvin over Malik. Leak's just a little bit of
a wild guard. But the talent, like it's wasn't the same.
(12:18):
Marvin's a great.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Route runner, He's got a lot like his dad.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Right, But then he comes in this offseason now he's
all jacked, He's added a bunch of muscle. I'm with you.
I think again he's a good player. I do think
the hype because of the name obviously was drafted really high.
Now he was gonna get drafted in any draft in
the top fifteen ish. But when you go, like what
do you go? Four people just expect to see you know,
(12:42):
Jamar Chase, Julio Jones. And it's just that's that's more
Malik neighbors from a talent standpoint, right, And Kyler's not
Philip Rivers or you know, Peyton Mann. He's not gonna
pick you apart. Like it's really more of just kind
of gun sling and run around. I'm out on the
Cardinals just as a team, especially offensively because of him. Now,
(13:04):
Trey McBride, he's going to get his numbers. But if
you put Trey McBride, like you put him on the
Chiefs or something, he'd be like, he canna catch one
hundred and twenty passes, right, dude. They do have some talent.
But and that's you know, Kyler's an interesting fantasy guy
because I heard I was listening to something and he's
had over when he's healthy, Like he has productive seasons, right,
because he throws some touchdowns, he runs around. But it's
(13:26):
like he's actually an interesting fantasy player, but he's not
a good He's good, I guess, but he's not like
a winning NFL player. I would say we're Jalen Hurts
for example. I mean, I mean he's got to be
one of the better fantasy quarterbacks currently right.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Oh, absolutely, Jalen Hurts his top five and pretty much
any aspect or rankings that you'll find. And I agree
with you on Kyler and just the thing with and
I want to clarify, yes, I'm absolutely all in on
Trey McBride, all draft James Connor where he goes in
fantasy circles. But the other parts of that offense, like
Marvin Harrison Junior, Kyler, people can miss me with him
it's just I think Kyler is who we know who
(14:05):
he is at this point of his career. It's he'll
have the spike weeks when the matchups are there, but
the volatility week to week is just absolutely maddening. And
a lot of that comes down to just how he
plays quarterback. Man like, it's just not consistent. He's not
running the offense on a consistent basis, getting one to
two to three utilize in the middle of the field.
So it's just too volatile for me.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I got an under hype guy because I like Seattle
this year. I think they're gonna be pretty good. And
you know, obviously you know Jackson Smith is a guy.
Maybe that's who you don't think I was gonna say,
but I'm not. I mean, I think he's an excellent player.
He's gonna have a big year. He's gonna have a
great career. But I don't think anyone's really talking about
Cooper Cup who I think sometimes he wan wide receivers
(14:48):
a little older guys that have been banged up a
little bit. I mean, this happens in the NFL at
any position. A former All Pro former, whatever has a
weird year. A couple weird years because of injuries and
then still has like one more like one song, maybe
a couple of years with someone else. The Ravens have
made a living off these type guys over the years.
But Cooper Cup, I think if you just pulled the
(15:10):
average guy, like what was this season like, you'd be like,
you got like twenty five balls last year got sixty seven,
had sixty seven catches in six touchdowns. We know Sam
Donald likes to sling that thing around, we saw him
last year. And the offense which is Kubiak, which is
a Shanahan thing, which you know McVeigh runs a little
bit different, but still has a lot of the same things.
Like if he stays healthy, who's to say that Cooper
(15:31):
Cup couldn't have seventy five eighty catches and I don't know,
seven to nine touchdowns. I mean, I just think no
one's talking about him. If you like Seattle, which I
think they're gonna be good this year, I would expect
Cooper Cup because Jackson Smith is no brainer, right. But
if you think Sam Donald is going to continue just
to play solid, he's a pretty interesting fantasy guy that
(15:51):
you wouldn't have to spend much money on. Or you
could draft really late.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
I don't disagree at all, and I was really surprised
when I got deep into my right offseason how good
he was on a per route basis. It just comes
back down to the health man. Can he stay healthy.
If he could stay healthy, I mean, everything he put
up on the field last year, he still has the juice.
I mean, like his per route metrics were still fantastic
two point one yards per route run. And the thing
(16:17):
that opened my eyes metal Coff was it wasn't just
the per route analytics. It was the fact that if
you go deeper agnostic of quarterback play, this guy was
actually in separation and route win rate metrics even better
as a boundary wide receiver than he was from the
slot last year. So what that tells me is like,
if he's healthy, he still got the juice where he
(16:39):
was top twenty four in separation and route win rate
for as a boundary wide receiver last year, which I'm
kind of curious, how much do you think he plays
on the outside this year, because I think Seattle's going
to run a lot of twelve, maybe some twenty one
personnel more condensed formations with Kubiak there now Elijah Royal
aj Barner. Do you think they're going to run a
lot of twelve and twenty one this year? Well? Who
(17:01):
fifties been.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I've read some reports like they've been moving Jackson around
a little bit, right because I think when he came out,
people are like, he's just going to be the next
elite slot receiver. Like I think they think he's good enough,
like he's gonna be the total package.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Kind of like I mean, Cooper Cup can do everything.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
They're kind of similar. You know, he will ideally want
to become a Cooper Cup like player, can do it
all rely on in big games. Yeah, I mean I
think wouldn't shock me at all. I mean, they're gonna
want to run the ball. Wasn't that a big issue
they had with Ryan Grubb as he can be a
little pass happy and didn't run the ball. Now, can
Kenneth Walker stay healthy? You know, sharbon A has had
(17:37):
a pretty good They got some interesting guys from a
fantasy perspective. If their offense is good, they have a
lot of guys that could be pretty productive. Right, sharbon
A could be a big, physical goal line back and
maybe they might just give him the ball no matter
what I love Kenneth Walker. Can he stay healthy? I
think both these two wide receivers who are the who
are their tight ends?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
AJ Barner and Elijah Royal. Yeah so I think. I mean,
Runner's gonna be your inline guy or Royo is gonna
be your slot guy. They're gonna play mismatches, probably get
him down the scene with as athletic as he is,
even though we didn't get testing metrics. I mean, dude,
I saw that guy just absolutely like a viscerate corners, linebackers,
everybody like you can all like I could walking away
(18:16):
from Senior Bowl and mobile last year, this let this
past season, he arguably had like one of the most
impressive weeks out of anybody down there, Like nobody could
guard him.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
I've said this forever. If their head coach, instead of
being a defensive guru, was a Shanahan guy or an
Andy Reid guy, we'd be talking about this team a
lot differently. But we just agree discriminate against defensive guys,
and we all agree, like this guy's pretty freaking sharp
defensive mind. And you just their talent on their team
is now their tackle position, you know, offensive line wise,
(18:49):
you know Sam Kenny, it was at a one year
wonder situation, the situation was perfect. But I think this
situation is pretty good.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
This is the also the carryover of understanding going from
Kyle to O'Connell to then Kubiak who was with them
with Kyle. It's just it's a pretty easy landing spot
for him, kind of his breakout year. Then he goes
to get paid. It's not like he's just going to Randoms,
right yep.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And I agree with you too. And I don't think
a lot of people, off the top of their heads
could tell you Seattle win ten games last year and
this team. I mean, if Dar won teven the last three,
I think people think they've just got to suck like
they have. Pete Carroll got fired or quit or whatever happened.
They were not a three win team. He won nine
that year. M h well. And the other thing like
(19:35):
where do you put their defense? I think their defense
is going to take a huge shit Like they're probably
gonna be a top top what top seven, top ten
at least unit this year.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Probably good dbs. They have a ton, right, a ton.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
And they added Emon Warry in the draft. Like when
he hits the ground running, if all those physical tools.
Like I know he's a little bit rough around the edges,
but he hits the ground running in this system. Like
you're talking about a guy that could step up and
maybe like back half of this seas he's their Kyle Hamilton,
like their mismatch, like chess piece. That defense is gonna
be nasty.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Well, because Leonard Williams is probably one of the more
least talked about, like really really high end guys. He's
kind of turned into like probably similar age but like
a buckner, like no one just they're not the sex
siest players, but they're just really really good. The rivalries,
(20:26):
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Speaker 2 (22:18):
You know, and speaking of that division, you know McCaffrey,
who when he's healthy, is probably one of the greatest
fantasy players of all time, right especially with Kyle. He's
like a matchmate in heaven. But you know, last year
I kept saying, like everyone's overblowing this, He'll be fine,
He'll be fine, And then I thought he was fine,
and then was like Friday, he got soreness, and then
he ended up not playing Sunday, and then the rest
is history. So he's an interesting guy. Night he's been healthy,
(22:42):
and like him and Kittle, obviously they're gonna have to
rely on I still think their offense is going to
be okay. They have some wide receiver issues, but to
me that would even add to like him and Kittle,
just if you.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Tell me those guys are healthy this season.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Kiddle I feel pretty good about. But McCaffrey, I just
don't see how they don't. Both of them don't have
massive seasons.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Oh, I agree, wholeheartedly. And I want to get your
thoughts on Ricky Piersoll because Beasts, I think like last
year was oh same same, I'm all in on him
this year, like I keep bumping him higher and higher
my ranks. I just watched all of his All twenty
two from the preseason this past Sunday, and you can
see on the preseason, and I know it's a limited sample,
(23:25):
but you could see with the chemistry between him and
Purty like he was running across or through zone I
think it was week two of the preseason instead of
yeah yeah, and instead of him getting washed out in
the zone coverage, he stops and he sits down in
his own coverage And I'm like, that's it, baby, that's exactly.
That's pointing to chemistry that's reps in the off season
(23:46):
making it to the field so extreme. I'm over the
moon with Peerce.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
I think the worry with him is, you know, separate
him getting shot, even though I think they just traded
for Brian Robinson who was also shot, so they got
the all shot team right now they got which is
why they liked it. I mean, those guys are both
you know, Ricky's a tough guy. But physically like he's
had some hamstring issues. He had a you know, shoulder
issue that I was listening to some of my guys
(24:11):
do a local podcast that there was a practice the
other day and he fell on it and he was
like grimacing. Now he he didn't like leave practice or anything,
but it's just when he plays seventeen games, I don't first,
you know, so we got that. That would be my worry.
If you tell me he's healthy, perty's gonna him and
Kittle would just go nuts in the passing game, those
two guys especially, who knows what Ayuke's gonna be. But
(24:33):
you know, now you could argue most of these wide
receivers just around the league, a lot of them get
dinged up. A lot the high end guys. I mean
the Eagles, both their guys get banged up. We got
Malik Dagbors, he's banged up. You know, Jamar Chase somewhat
of an outlier, fully healthy last year, right, Jefferson's been
banged up. So it's one of those positions that like,
if I tell you all these guys that I just
(24:53):
listed play all the time seedee Lamp, they'll put up
huge numbers. But at any moment. These guys, they're like
a I don't know, you know sports cars that you
get a ding on it, you got to go in
all of a sudden, it's a ten grand to like
fill in like a little putty on the side of
the Ferrari. And there are a lot of them. I mean,
the league is loaded with wide receivers, But like, is
(25:15):
there a guy from a value because we all know
the sexy big names, but is there a guy that
in the top tennis that's like, ah, I wasn't really
thinking about him because I think i Uk a couple
of years ago became that guy, right, he had a
big season. Is there a guy that's not Chase or
Seed Lamb? You're like, I like that, dude, Man, I
keep going.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Back, then we'll go back, We'll circle back to the Falcons.
I think this is the monster Drake London season incoming.
I think everything's lining up for him. He's like really
hit his stride last year with Robinson throwing him inside,
giving him more easy design looks, a little more slot work,
him stepping forward as the clear guy out of this
Arthur Smith nonsense over the last few years, and if
(25:57):
Pennix can be the guy that we think he can be. Collectively.
The other thing that I think gives Drake London it's
not only the volume, it's not only the fact that
he's gonna be a centerpiece of the offense. It's we're
gonna get downfield usage and we haven't seen that over
the last few years because of the quarterback play last
year being limiting and in previous years. We're gonna get
some Drake like back shoulder bombs down the field from
(26:19):
Michael Pennox. And I'm excited, man, I'm excited. I think
he's gonna step into some rarefied air. He might lead
the NFL on targets this year.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, totally. I mean, I we'll find out. We can
talk about the Bears like it with Ben Johnson going
there as arrow pointing up and with the Lions is
their arrow pointing down. But you know, I was thinking
about this. I saw was the second preseason game where
Rome had a bad drop and I was like, I
liked Rome a lot, but is there a chance like
he was actually overrated? And it was like Pennix, you know,
(26:47):
it's like the reverse of Mike Evans and Johnny Manziel,
where Mike Evans kind of made Johnny did Pennix kind
of make a row because I'm watching Rome, Like God,
I thought this guy was really good and I don't know,
I'm rooting for him. I'm a fan, but he makes
me a little nervous.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
He makes me a little nervous too. And I've been
largely below consensus compared to a lot of other people
in the fantasy space on the Bears offense, Like, I
get the Ben Johnson steam, I understand it, but I
have my own standalone concerns about Caleb Williams. We haven't
seen him support even one high end weapon. I understand
the problems of that offense and all this stuff about
(27:21):
Shane Waldron and stuff like, I still don't think enough
people lay things at Caleb Williams's feet last year for
how rough his rookie season went totally and they're just
expecting Ben Johnson to come in here, and I'm like,
I think Caleb can have a solid season if he
can just run the freaking offense, and if he does that,
he can have a solid season. But if he does,
he might not live up to the hype where people
(27:42):
walk away from this year and say, oh, Caleb took
a step forward, but it still didn't meet my expectations.
And I'm with you on Rome, like I can't point
to an analytical reason to really believe in rollm of
doone saying I loved him as a prospect. But again,
like once you hit the NFL, maybe our preconceptions or
how we viewed as a prospect needs to changed a
little bit. Whenever these guys are running against NFL competition.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I agree. And if if Rome, I mean people he
was drafted what ninth or tenth, ninth? I think, like
the expectations when you're drafted in the first round alone,
Like it's like I say this about Ricky Pearson like
he was a first round pick. I know it was
the end of the first round, but or xavier' Worthy's
that's a big pick for these teams that were just
in the Super Bowl. That's their first asset in the draft.
(28:24):
When you are a top ten twelve pick at wide receiver,
the expectation is for you to be a pro Bowl
level guy. And you know, we might look back. It's
like Marvin's got some issues, Rome's got some issue. Malik
neighbors in a different universe than those guys. Which you know,
it was kind of I mean, some people were saying that,
and I think a lot of people push back, but
the Lions that there's no disputing Ben is really freaking good.
(28:48):
And like you said, the Kleb, he's got a little
Russell Deshaun Watson to his game. And that's not how
Ben Johnson became a star with Jared Goff who can't
move more than me or you. So it's like that's
why you look at the lines. You're like, are they
just so good? Even with Johnny Morton, who's kind of
got a weird career trajectory. Like all these coaches in
the league grooed in Sean Payton, Dan Campbell, they love
(29:11):
the guy. It's like, well, in this day and age,
it's pretty hard not to become a pretty sweet offensive
coordinator and get these jobs all the time. He's like,
he's never getting these jobs. So I get Dan Campbell
has known him for a while and makes him the
offensive coordinator, But I don't know. I mean, it's just
that there is something to be said about some people
just better play callers, regardless of the players, right, you
(29:33):
just have an innate feel If you're Kevin O'Connell, Kyle McVeigh,
Sean Payton, Andy Reid. We see a lot of these
guys are like, I don't know, he just it's not
even much about the players. He has no feel for
the game. And that's what I always get worried about
whenever you make a big coordinator change and you don't
have a guy that. We've seen it with the Eagles, right,
I mean, when it's good, it's good. When it's bad,
it's bad.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yep. Yeah, I don't disagree about Morton at all, And
I just don't even know.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I don't even know where I yeah, and I don't
real even have a strong take. I just.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
I think it was an I think it was more
of a familiarity because if you trace all like Morton
and Campbell's Winding Road through the NFL, both of them
come from that Sean Payton Tree, both of them were
on the same staff in New Orleans, and I think
part of it was that, So the familiarity, there's a
relationship there. I'm a little bit higher on the Lions
in that transition. Now I'm just like ragnow getting hurt.
(30:26):
Some of the other parts of pieces, like Zeitler's gone
to the O line people have questions about. Now the
Lions have done a good job of, like with their
draft picks, kind of insulating themselves from some of these things,
but still change has changed, and especially O line continuity
is huge when you do have a statue type of quarterback,
he ain't moving off the spot and not creating a
ton off schedule. He needs that offensive line to make
(30:48):
that wall for him. I am a little bit higher
on the Lions or I'm not projecting as much regression
as some people. Not everybody, not because of Ben Johnson
and not giving him his flowers and respect. But I
also go back to like Dan Campbell is an offensive
minded head coach, and I think because of the raw
ra ra rub some dirt on it that kind of
gets lost in the conversation sometimes of like his background
(31:10):
as a tight end offensive assistant and stuff like that.
Now he's not calling the plays. And I think that
questions about Morton are are very fairer and it's a
reason to be concerned. But with all these players, like
at the talent levels of all them, like you really
got to screw this up, like big time, I think
to like fall in their face, like there's still gonna
be a really good offense. But the question is can
they Can they be a top three to five offense
(31:32):
this year with all of the circle, you know, can
I think it's I think it's still in the range
of outcomes. I think I comfortably still peg them, like
top ten, top five is gonna their O line is
gonna have to.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Produce who's your group top three to five that you
feel pretty confident moving forward. As far as NFL offenses, Yeah,
cause to me, that's how I kind of gauge you
your offensive suite. I'm just interested in your players. If
you got Josh Allen playing seventeen games, you're gonna have
some guys putting up some big stats. You got Lamar
Jackson obviously, Joe Burrow. Those are the three we've kind
of drawn to. If the line, if we just remove
(32:06):
the Lions, even if they just take a slight step back,
like you know, because the Chiefs haven't been there right
even though they've been one of the best teams the
forty nine or statistically last year were really good. They
just struggled to score points, which obviously is a problem
in fantasy. But I mean the I think Minnesota.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yep, Philly is still in that conversation for top five definitely,
depending on what we get out of I mean, the
Lions are definitely in the fringe. You talked about the Vikings,
We got questions about JJ canny be who I hope
he could be, and everybody else. Man, I think, tell me,
tell me your thoughts on the Broncos, because I think
they're a team that really could break into that top
(32:44):
five conversation this year if Nicks takes that next level
of all the parts of pieces kind of coalesce and stuff,
Like we're hearing really good reports about Pat Bryant and
Troy Franklin and r J. Harvey, like they've injected a
lot of youth and explosiveness. Do you think they can
enter that top five conversation? How much easier is the
play offfense when your defense is really good? Oh dude,
their defense gonna be top five. Man, It's gonna be
(33:05):
so nasty, Like teams are gonna whether it's Certain or
Jday Baron locking dudes down and the Nickel teams are
gonna be frustrated going to Mile High this year.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I think they're gonna be really good.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Same.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
I think they're gonna be I think the Chargers are
gonna come back to Earth a little bit.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Uh just I think the Broncos win the AFC West.
Is that a crazy take?
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Three to one? Right now, here's the chief three to
one on DraftKings and you can get it.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I've already bet it. I've already bet it. Baby.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
It was actually higher and it's kind of come down
to shot like to start the pre to start the
training camp, and Sean Payton's basically just saying like, yeah,
I've been coaching for twenty five years, I've had been
around six teams. Is one of them than I think
can win it all? And I don't think if you
watch the Cowboys documentary, Jimmy would just talk sometimes to
talk to kind of. I think Sean Payton truly believes it.
Like he's not saying he is not bullshitting. He loves
(33:51):
bo Nicks. Nope, he loves this team. He likes the group.
I mean if you watched him last year, I mean
you could just kind of see it coming. They just
needed Adam up more pieces. But team speed wise, their
defense is fast and physical, their pass rush is excellent,
their dbs are good. What's the do they disdrafted from
Texas in the first round. I saw him make a
couple of plays in preseason learning yep, and like you said,
offensively now he is he over hyping the running back
(34:14):
a little bit from UCF. He loves them.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
I was a big RJ. Harvey stand pre draft. I
had him inside of my top five RBS, so I
was in on it. I think a lot of people
were pushed off because of the age and you know,
the ACL history and stuff. But skill set wise, he
checks a ton of boxes. Man, Like he's he's got
some high end pass game reps. H if you go
back in his collegiate history and stuff, I think he
(34:40):
can definitely play in the past game. Pass pro is
probably the biggest worry with him. But Peyton's even come
out and said, like, look like I think it's one
of the reasons why they added Dobbins. I think it's
gonna be Harvey on on especially like first and second down,
and Dobbin's coming in on third down, so like, Harvey's
gonna run his routes on those early downs. But I'm
in on Harvey. I definitely love him.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
What's your thoughts on the Texans because I mean defensively,
know they're going to be really good offensively, you make
the offensive coordinator change CJ. I would say relative to
his rookie obviously had a rough year. Nico's a absolute monster.
You know, if he's healthy, you know, tanks careers probably
in some jeopardy after the devastating I mean it's hard
to even think about watching him land on the ground
(35:32):
because he was a stud. But you know, last year
I thought they I like picked him to be the
one seed. I had a little juice on them, like
e to one. It might have been a year early
because I think their defense going to dominate and offensively
if they're just solid. If you look at that division,
could they be a you know, a CJA guy throwing
thirty five touchdowns this year?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
I think you were in a year early. I think
we were all a year early. I absolutely agree with
everything you outline there, and I think like their defense
is going to be a top five it this year.
I mean they are just stacked everywhere you look. Last
and a hitting the ground running last year was a
big big win for them where they got him in
the draft, adding a few more parts in pieces of
that secondary. Their pass rush is nasty. I've got a
(36:14):
few tickets on Will Anderson for Defensive Player of the Year,
so I'm in on him taking another step forward this year.
Oh god, man, I think yeah, it was. It was
really good odds, really good odds. Like if I could
double it down, I would even I'd press the button
even right now. So anybody listen to this, you know,
head to the books, press it now, man, because he's
(36:36):
a guy like everything COOLESA is Like we're talking about
high end sack numbers, Like could post some outrageous sack
numbers considering all the other d line talent there. But
the offense is where it all comes down to, Like
that that's the ceiling element of this team. Could CEJ
bounce back, and really everybody the first thing out of
their mouth is going to be their offensive line. And
(36:57):
I just want their offensive line to be league average,
and I think that's possible. I'm not saying like I
love the parts or pieces, but middlicoff. We also lived
in a world last year where a lot of these
same dudes were on this depth chart last year yea,
and everybody wasn't worried about their offensive line until they cratered.
So like adding these parts or pieces to it. I
(37:18):
think they're just looking at this as like a sum
of the parts, and if they can play better as
like a unit and the continuity is there, then if
we get league average play with the other. Again, this
is a team that added a bunch of firepower as
far as through the passing game. Like I love Jayden
Higgins as a prospect. Jalen Nole was my guy throughout
the entirety of the draft process, and so you have
(37:39):
insulation there if Kurt goes down, like I think they're
ready to roll on offense, they just need the blocking
up front to be average.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I think a lot of people place the blame, I
mean clearly on the offensive coordinator is he just did
not do a good job and then it kind of
unraveled and they lost their confidence or whatever, and it
kind of just it just started looking worse and worse
as season went on. Ye that they think the cohesion,
I mean, play calling, Let's face it, you can make
I mean McVeigh and Kyle Shanahan haven't exactly had like
(38:07):
the mid nineties Cowboys offensive lines over the years, right,
So you can't you can scheme around Like to me,
you can't it's hard to scheme like sweet pass rushers.
You either got Will Anderson or Nick Bosa or a Hutchson.
You could scheme around some random offensive linemen, but you
can also those guys can expose you fast. I want
to get you out of here that I got two
teams that I think are huge swing teams, the Colts.
(38:29):
If you tell me they went ten and seven, and
Daniel Jones resurrection's career, I bet Tyler Warren, Jonathan Taylor. Hell,
even Daniel Jones probably has a pretty good fantasy year.
If you tell me they could win six to seven games,
I'd be like, I'd stay away from that group. Same
thing with the Rams, which is obviously predicated on a
guy's back. So it's a little dip. We know Stafford
wins on the field, it's gonna be good. But if
(38:49):
you tell me, you know Stafford's back, he played four games,
It's like, I'm Jimmy Garoppolo, I'm sorry, I'm out on
that situation. It's Stet's been att two like, I'm.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
No chance, and I love McVeigh, but let's start with
the Colts.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Your thoughts on their situation.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
We're sitting here by the time I put this out
on Monday.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I think Anthony Rigson gets traded before the season because
I don't think you can have to.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
You just can't. It's just, you know, the locker room
dynamic's no going back. No, there's no going back. You've
benched the guy and now you've you picked a journeyman
starter over him, and it's like, dude, it's like, like,
I don't I'm not saying the vibes have been good,
like about is his dedication and work and some of
the things you can kind of read to the tea leaves,
But it's like, also, it's like, did you not understand
(39:33):
who you were drafting? Like a guy that didn't have
a lot of starts, a lot of reps and stuff.
He needed that time to grow. And then the injuries
and stuff, and then it's like we're worried about our
jobs and then the suboptimal decision making comes in where
it's like now we need it. We're coaching for our
jobs and stuff, and we're facing our hope on Daniel Hilling.
I see.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
I think a lot of times when this stuff happens
because I I when I was living in the Bay,
I saw with Trey Lance yep. I think back in
the day, like the eighties or the nineties, like if
did call were to do this or ourselves, like the
locker room has no influence. I think nowadays, I bet
the players are telling Shane like you know they're there
because you don't hear a peep. When all the Trey
(40:13):
Lance stuff happened with Purty, they all were like, no,
it's different because I mean they truly believed in Purty.
I don't know if they believe in Daniel Jones, Trent Williams,
Fred Warner, Deebo, Samuel they were all on they wanted
it right ye in this situation. I just think that
I wonder iful a lot of players internally kind of
gave up on them last year during that situation when
he tapped out and it's like is Shane Stike and
(40:35):
just pulling going rogue? Like they're like on the fence,
We'll go with either guy. I think I think there
are locker room dynamics more than ever in the modern
day pro sports, and you kind of listen to your
star players and they're cool with it. I'm with you,
like big picture, you should have known. But the problem
is when a guy's always injured, it's impossible to develop them. Yeah,
now we're year three and we think we have like
(40:56):
a playoff level roster. It's like, what are we gonna do?
It's just the he should have gone to a really crappy,
shitty team, right, it's to just keep Jacksonville or Arizona.
You just keep rolling out. Ye when you think you're
a playoff team, it's hard to do this year in
year out.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
I don't disagree with you. And it's tough when the
guy gets hurt and then he can't get the reps
even U forecast that are wanted for him. But like,
if Daniel Jones can just be a league average quarterback
like and Shane Stocking and can like look like just
scheme around him with all the parts of pieces, like,
this team could win ten to eleven games this year
because I think their defense could take a step forward too,
(41:33):
like changing over DC's You have a lot of young
guys there, especially in their their D line that could
take another step toward this year. And if that happens, yeah,
we're talking about they're they're literally the entire rest of
this roster is carrying Daniel Jones to ten or eleven wins.
I wouldn't be shocked with that. I also wouldn't be
shocked if Daniel Jones just like implodes and he's, you know,
(41:55):
Blake Bortles two point zero and this d and this
team looks rough and everything goes side ways and Baward
and Styching are gone by, you know, the back half
of the season. I think there's a wide range of
outcomes for the Colts just in general.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
We if I gave him like Jared Goff or Brock
Purdy on the Colts their starting court, you would like
that roster. Well, twelve wins, Yeah, twelve wins. I'd say
the same thing about it. I'd say the same thing
about probably the Arizona Cardinals. If I gave them like
a consistent quarterback, I think they'd be pretty good. The Rams,
to me, they're a little more like an NBA team
that's been top heavy. Now they're getting better. They've drafted
(42:28):
really well the last couple of years, so they've had
the youth movement. But like when Stafford's on that they
become a really really good team. And when he's off,
I mean, people sometimes talk about the Rams. I've been
saying this for like a month like there's they were
been some twelve and thirteen win juggernaut these last couple years,
Like they've won ten games, you know. I mean Seattle
had the same record as them. It's just Sam Darnold,
you know, throw that touchdown in the corner of the
(42:49):
end zone late in the season and then in their
playoff hopes. But I mean, if that guy drops it
or Sam trips, Seattle wins a division. So I think
the Rams are a massive wild guard. If you tell
me Stafford play seventeen games the back, no big deal.
It's like, Okay, Puka's gonna catch off. Puka's hundred catches,
fifteen touchdowns. If you tell me Jimmy Garoppolo starts twelve,
it's like, ugh, this could get weird.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
It really could. And Stafford is the lynchpin like everything
that team is gonna go where the quarterback play goes.
And yes, I mean, like dude, like if Jimmy g
make starts, then it's also like do we go back
to the Devonte Adams like cussing him out on the
sideline by throwing hospital balls like that. That's firmly in
play too. But if Stafford's healthy, and I think there's
the two big question marks from that team and the
range of outcomes is Stafford's health and I just back
(43:36):
injuries just scare the ever loving big Jesus out of me. Man,
Like where it's like you got you got an epidural,
You're like feeling okay enough to practice. How are you
feeling a week six when the hits start piling up
and that that that aged body and that back starts
barking at you and it's hard to get six. Bro.
They open with Houston, I mean what if he gets
(43:57):
leveled in that game? I mean you know, if you're
Demiko Ryans, You're just gonna blitz the ever loving crap
out of them and say, okay o line, hope you
can hold up because we're bringing the heat. Baby. But yes,
like this is an eleven or twelve win team if
Stafford is healthy and the secondary can hold up, because
you got a huge question marks there. Kenna Kello Witherspoon,
(44:19):
he's awesome when he's on the field. I mean his
entire career, he's been unable to stay healthy. So it's
like they are another wide range of outcomes, Like I
have some.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Have a Jimmy G belief I mean enough to run
the offense, but like he's he's a floor pick, like
you're just hoping, like he doesn't get any of your
wide receivers just absolutely decapitated over the middle if he's playing,
and you probably go run heavy and that's what we see,
like them lean on the run game and it goes
(44:51):
like conservative.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
But I'll kind of tie some things together here, middle
Coff before we wrap all this up, Like, do you
think the Rams there's a non zero chance, like could
they trade for Anthony Richardson seeing as we're talking about
a trade.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
Yeah, to me, it's I think Anthony Richardson is in
play for all the good sweet offensive coaches like Sean
Payton would not be interested because he's got a young quarterback,
but Andy Reid obviously Sean McVay the Bills wouldn't fit
that model. Like the Ravens with Lamar. You know, it's
like Andy Ridge is a backup now, so you don't
even need to worry about him, like you're just on
(45:23):
the side grinding with you. I think one hundred percent.
Now he's a value like can I get you for
like a fifth or sixth rounder? Like I don't think
you see any of these teams giving up anything, because
when you were on the fourth pick, you do make
some money as well. But I the first two names
that came to my mind were Andy Reid and Sean McVay, cause, like,
(45:43):
what we I'm not even worried about you playing, and
I just, you know, when we got a little downtime
during the week, we're working with you on the side.
You just we're just kind of messing with you. But
I do think financially, the more and more I've thought
about it, it's a little complicated because when you're the
fourth overall pick, it's you know, it's like seven eight,
nine million dollars. What's he in year three? Now it
gets a little higher as it's it's not like he's
(46:05):
the twenty like Jackson Dart's contract and his contracts are
dramatically different, right, It's like what we saw with Jerry Jones.
I also think people look back at Jerry Jones trading
for Trey Lance a fourth it's like, God, that was
a lot, you know, because they you know that was
that was a that was a mistake at the time.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
That's a lot of Jerry trades. He just he just
spends those forts like are going out of business.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
So to me, what's the value on it? What's the
value on Anthey Ridgeton, Like, could they even get a fifth?
I mean that's.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Fifth or like a pick swap like Richardson and a
pick swap for a fifth. I mean it kind of feels.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Yeah, or maybe I got a guy that I'm gonna
cut that you want I trade you a player type
of deal. He wouldn't go and listen, people are like,
well the Colts, No, the Colts missed. It's over so
you just you just have to remove them. It's not
there's no value coming back. You drafted them fourth overall
it failed. You can't there is no value there, right.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
You're not getting the equity back on that.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
No, So yeah, I could see death. Sean mcvah Andy
Reid were the two guys that I thought of, But
I guess the Ravens from a scheme standpoint, maybe they
because a lot of people liked them coming out, right,
But like you said, we sometimes like we have enough evidence,
like we can't just view what we viewed whenever the
guy was drafted three years later, like a lot's changed.
(47:19):
So uh so, yeah, well, enjoy all your drafts all
your ever everything going on, and enjoy the season, man,
and we'll definitely be in touch you guys. Keep crushing man,
because I was with Coward the other day and I've
heard about you guys and years before you even came on.
You guys, uh do some big, big numbies on that podcast.
(47:41):
So congrats and keep it rolling.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Appreciate it, man, Appreciate the time talking ball. I mean,
you're one of the sharpest in the business. Anytime we
have a chance to sit her and hop on the
mics and talk football, it's a good day.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Talk soon, bro, Enjoy the weekend.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
Appreciate you
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com