3 & Out - Derek Carr Retires, Rookie mini-camp update, Brazil game is here to stay - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
What is going on Everybody?

Speaker 1 (00:18):
John Middlecoff Three and Out podcast, Little Sunday Afternoon Pod,
because we had some weekend breaking news. I don't know
if it's out of nowhere because it had been a
little weird, but I don't think anyone expected Derek Carr
to retire, and that is what happened early Saturday morning.
That schefter broke the news that Derek Carr is retiring

(00:41):
after eleven seasons, eleven years as a starter, obviously nine
on the Raiders, a couple on the Saints, and now
he's Connor quit. So we will dive into that, which
spend most of our time talking about that a couple
other football topics, and do a little mail bag as well.

(01:01):
So at John Middlecoff as the Instagram fire in those dms,
get your questions answered on the show, and you.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Guys know the drill.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe
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as well. But before we dive into some football and
Derek Carr.

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(02:17):
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Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, well, well, Derek Carr.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Has I don't want to say officially but unofficially retired
from the National Football League and a little bit of
a shakra. Not not sure that most of us saw
this one coming though, been a weird. It feels like
last month or two with the back and forth with

(02:46):
the Saints with kind of some threats about a season
ending surgery, with then them drafting a quarterback early in
the second round. It did not feel like Kellen Moore
and kind of the new vibe in the building was
in on Derek Carr, which is understandable. Derek went to
the Saints because of Dennis Allen, who was obviously fired

(03:08):
last year. But there's no more guessing how the situation
is gonna play out. Is he gonna get surgery, is
he gonna you don't have to compete for his job?
Can Kellen Moore? Could they deal him? It's like, nope,
I'm done and you can retire at thirty four to
thirty five years old when you've made two hundred million
dollars playing football and that there is no disputing He's

(03:31):
been one of the more polarizing players over the course
of his career because the one thing Derek Carr has
been and he will go out as being, is a
starter in the NFL. This wasn't one of those guys
that's like backed up some people bounced around. He's played
for two teams. He's played at one hundred and sixty
nine games and he started every single one of them.
And I had a front row seat when he got

(03:52):
drafted to the Saints and he beat out Matt Job
in training camp. I remember being at a preseason game
four against the Seattle Seahawks his rookie season. Pete Carroll
was a little old school.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
This was a team that had already.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Won a Super Bowl. I think they'd already been to another.
I mean, they were easily one of the best teams
in the NFL. Their defensive backfield, Cam Chancellor, Earl Thomas,
and obviously Richard Sherman and those guys played in the
fourth preseason game and Derek went right down the field
scored a touchdown on him. Then I think Pete pulled everybody.
But then he scored either two more or three touchdowns

(04:28):
in that first half, and it was like Matt shops done.
And I think a day or two later, Dennis Allen
announced him as the starter and then he would go
on to be the longtime starter for the Raiders. But
some background that I had when I was hired out
of college at Fresno State to be a GA in recruiting.
When I got there in basically probably late May early June,

(04:52):
we had a recruiting class. And this is a day
and age when the transfer portal didn't exist. There was
only one signing day would commit, especially at schools like that,
and for the most part, they were gonna end up
playing football for you. And Derek Carr was when I
showed up, by far the biggest current commit of the class.

(05:12):
He was a really good high school player, probably could
have gone two places like cow Will Jeff Tedford was
who had coached his brother. I know Utah was really interested,
but he was dead set in finishing kind of what
his brother started. And he had committed very early on
in his high school career and really never wavered. And

(05:37):
I think his senior year he transferred from Texas back
to Bakersfield and had a massive senior year. But he
came to Fresno State honestly probably should have won the
starting quarterback job as a true freshman, but coach Hill
old school went with the longtime backup who just simply
was not as good as Derek. But Derek not only

(05:59):
backed him up that year, red shirted the next year
and then he started for the next three seasons, and
if his name had been Derek Johnson instead of Derek Carr,
I think he would have been a lock first round pick.
But when I when I was around him his freshman year,
I remember thinking like, this guy's got a big arm.

(06:20):
This guy's a really talented player. And then after his
freshman year, I was hired into the NFL with the
Eagles and I get there and Kevin Cobb ended up
starting a game because he got knocked out and Michael
Vick came in. The rest is history, but I remember
being in training camp practice watching Kevin Cobb throw the
ball and texting people back at Fresno. I was like,
this guy doesn't throw it nearly as well as Derek.

(06:43):
So I don't want to say that I knew Derek
Carr was going to be an NFL starter right then
and there, but I was it was eye opening how
much Derek's arm was going to translate. And by Derek's
senior year at Fresno State, I think he threw fifty
touchdowns and eight picks.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
I mean he dominated.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
I mean his last couple of years, all Mountain West guy,
him and DeVante. It wasn't even fair. It was like
the equivalent of Joe Kitchen Murray playing against me and you.
But because of his name and his brother being a
pretty legendary quote unquote bust and being someone that I
would say has a negative connotation in NFL circles, I

(07:22):
do think it hurt him, but he ended up going
to the top of the second round. And the one
lesson I think you take away from Derek's career is
so much as out of your control whether you're a
football player for those of us in life, but specifically
at quarterback. You get drafted. You don't pick the other
players in your team. You don't get to determine who

(07:43):
the coach is. You definitely don't get determined the scheme,
who the assistant coaches are going to be, who the
GM is making the moves. And Derek went to a
very very chaotic organization and basically for the first six
or seven years he was there, it was all about
are we going to move? How are we going to move?

(08:03):
And then we are moving, but we're staying.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
In Oakland for a couple of years.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Like it wasn't a very easy situation for any player,
let alone a young guy, especially the starting quarterback of
the team and everything that was thrown on his shoulders. Like,
I do respect how much he had to handle because
he was asked these questions constantly.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
And he had nothing to do with any of them.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
But I do think his career could have turned out
a lot better if it wasn't for a broken ankle
his third season, because by his second year in the league,
he had thrown thirty two touchdowns. They had Amari Cooper,
they had signed Crabtree, and it looked like this guy
had a chance to be a pretty good quarterback, like
to be a guy that would be top ten in
the NFL the following year.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
They are good. They are.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
They have eleven wins going into Week fifteen, he throws
several touchdowns. He's in the conversation to be the MVP
is taking to the Raiders to the playoffs for the
first time in like fifteen years. This was a franchise
that hadn't been to the playoffs. Hell hadn't sniffed the
playoffs since like two to Zho three range. And in
twenty sixteen, he wasn't just having a great year relative

(09:14):
to the league. He was playing really really well. I
was going to all these games. I mean, he was
playing like a top five or six quarterback in the
NFL at a really really high level, and then his
ankle shatters, and honestly, I think after that point, I
don't think his career was ever quite the same. Obviously,
the Raiders went to the playoffs, they started mcgloyin in
the game, and they got worked by the Texans. But

(09:38):
then they go through Jack del Real, they hire John Gruden,
the moving process happens, and again he I don't think
he was ever as good as that twenty fifteen twenty
sixteen range. But by twenty twenty and twenty twenty one
under John Gruden, after everything had normalized a little bit,
they had moved to Vegas, he was playing pretty well again.
Over a two year span, he threw like fifty touchdowns

(10:00):
in less than twenty five picks, and it was a
high completion percentage guy, and the team was just kind
of headed in the right direction. And then Monday Night
Football's going down. The New York Times has the report
and John grun gets fired. And then a couple months later,
after they get knocked out in the playoffs by the Bengals,
they bring in Josh McDaniels and it's very safe to
say Derek's career on the field is all downhill after that. Now,

(10:24):
he ended up making a lot of money, and I
do think he's kind of the poster child for the
modern era of pro sports and the amount of money
that's being giving out in specifically the NFL for any
decent player. Like obviously, if you're a star, you were
making a lot of money in the eighties and the
nineties and every generation. Right, it's all relative, but even now,

(10:48):
like justin Jefferson, what Michael Parkson's gonna end up getting.
You know, all these guys, the top guys are making money,
but the top guys when I was a kid were
making the most money. But when you get a guy
like Derek who's never won a playoff game, who's only
been to the playoffs twice, and one of them he
couldn't attend because he had a shattered ankle. So the
one playoff game he did start, he lost and didn't

(11:11):
end great against the Bengals because he he he clocked
the ball on first down in the in the red
zone late in the game, so he basically gave away
a you know, one of their four plays, which was
an ideal but someone had slid in my DMS and

(11:31):
asked me, John, do you think Derek is pulling a
Sean Payton doing a retire to kind of pivot? And
you know, I kinda cross my mind. The more and
more I left, the just reaction of what happened really
seep in, and then I read about some of the
stuff that happened. They're going to allow him to keep
the ten million dollars roster bonus that he got for

(11:51):
being on the team after free agency started, but he
gave up the opportunity for the thirty million dollars guaranteed
fall by retiring, basically like we're good. And I don't
think you would do that because if he if this
was really a double middle finger move to try to
set a situation where in a year he could get out,

(12:14):
why wouldn't he have just got his shoulder surgery this year.
They would have been on the hook to pay him
between the bonus and the salary forty million dollars, and
then of course they would have cut him next year
and he would have been, in theory, healthy and a
free agent to sign wherever he wanted to play. So
I do believe him, And then I saw his wife
had a post like I think he's retired.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
I think he's just done.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
And I think when you've been in a situation when
he played for the Raiders as long as he did,
and then you go to the Saints.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
And listen, some of it's his fault, like he.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Had moments in big games where he did not play well.
I'm not trying to act like he's a better player
than he gets credit for, because I think the last
four or five years he's been pretty average.

Speaker 2 (12:55):
But he also.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Represents, like I said, a guy that made over two
hundred million dollars. So it's much easier to call it
quits when you go listen, I'm thirty four to thirty five,
I got a big family. I guess they just moved
to Fresno. Like I'm done, I'm out.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
He' made a lot of money. I mean, there can't be.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
I know a lot of people in the Fresno area,
and while they do have some wealthy individuals, they're all
business owners. There is not many people in the state
of California outside of the San Francisco in La area,
so especially the valley from Sacramento to Bakersfield, who have
made over two hundred million dollars that never owned anything.

(13:35):
He's just a W two employee for the Raiders and
the Saints. So Derek banked a lot of cash in
the league. And a lot of people would say not
playing that well, and I would say, I do think
he made a decision going to the Saints a couple
of years ago because of Dennis Allen and their previous relationship.
I don't know if that's a great move. Obviously, Dennis

(13:56):
Allen's not a very good head coach, and I think
we do have to question the Saints, you know, minus
like with Sean Payton, the brains behind everything. And we're
gonna see with Kellen Moore if it was all Sean Payton,
if this organization is, you know, has the ability to
kind of overcome stuff. And I saw Kellen Moore said
that we'll just have a He's in an easy spot

(14:17):
now he's quarterback competition Jay Hayner, Spencer Rattler, and Tyler Shuck.
But I think Derek Carr's retirement, I don't think it
symbolizes anything like could this be a new trend of
guys retiring early?

Speaker 2 (14:30):
No?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Now, is he gonna get shoulder surgery? Is his injury
legitimate because the Saints had a press release. Clearly, I
don't think they're all on the same page about this injury.
In a weird way. For a guy that you look
at his wiki played in a lot of games, does
feel like recently he's had a lot of injuries, from
shoulder injuries to concussions. It just feels like over the

(14:55):
last you know, especially in the twenty twenties, there have
been a lot of sun where if you have you know,
a Raider game or a Saints game on, Derek is
on the ground, laying there, and maybe he was just
tired of the pounding he took and said I've made
enough money and I'm out. But I do think his
career could have gone like if you played it over

(15:16):
ten times. I do think there are a couple scenarios
where it goes way better and he goes to a
stable organization. I think he always would have been a
very polarizing player like a Dak, like a Cousin's. But
look at Dak for a lot of his career, Like
we can nitpick Jerry and say he does some crazy shit. True,
but like they've won a lot, they have three straight

(15:36):
years when they won twelve games. I do think early
on in Derek's career, had he not been with the Raiders,
had he been with a team that kind of knew
what they were doing, he could have been a guy
that was constantly going to the playoffs. I mean, like
Andy Dalton. Doesn't mean he would have won in the playoffs,
but I think Andy Dalton went to the playoffs six
straight years starting quarterback, so a lot of times as
a guy like that, dak Andy Dalton, Jimmy Garoppolo, like,

(15:58):
you're not going to go to a bad team and
have some It's gonna be very, very difficult unless you're
playing out of your mind. But if you're gonna play
to what your ability is, which relative to the rest
of the quarterbacks is somewhere in the middle, you are
gonna need high level coaching, high level talent. Ideally had
a good defense, and that was the other thing with
the Raiders, Like their defenses were a joke. I mean,

(16:19):
I remember the one year that Khalil Mack won the
Defensive Player of the Year, and I didn't even think
the defense was good. It was just him. The reason
he won the Defensive Player of the Year because he
literally did everything like fumble sixes, pick six's sacks. It
was like, I don't even think there's anyone else good
on this defense, Like a good defense wouldn't want any

(16:40):
of the other players beside Khalil. And it also shows
you the Raiders, man, they had a two year stretch
where they got Khalil, Mack, Derek cars, they got their
star pass rusher, they got their starting quarterback, and they
got Amari Cooper, which early on looked like a really
really like a guy there was gonna be a top
three or four wide receiver in the league. And then
by the time John Gruden got there, it was call
kind of over and it was just Derek who was

(17:01):
not quite as good as he once was. So kind
of a crazy little tale of a career. But you know,
at the end of the day, hard to say, you know,
and Derrek's shoes go. I started for eleven years in
the NFL. I made two hundred million dollars. You know,
in his mind probably thinks it's really really successful. And
I'm not saying he's necessarily wrong, but I think the

(17:23):
way people would talk about it would say he's unsuccessful
given how many starts he had and the results, And
I think my overall take is, I like most guys
don't overcome in any like I could put you like,
you're gonna have much more success if you're a finance
guy and you go work for Goldman Sachs that if

(17:45):
you go work for some crazy organization. I'm a much
better podcaster because you guys can hear me because of
Colin Coward that if I did not have him, a
lot of stuff is out of our control. So he
plays for the Raiders who running through coaches who finally
look like they got it right, and then Gruden has
to get fired because of everything that happened. It's just

(18:06):
not a normal place to work, you know. And a
Peyton Manning, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. You know there are
certain type just freak talents that might be able to
overcome it. Most guys cannot. You see the Cowboys when
a couple things go wrong, Dak looks awful.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's like, what is happening?

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Say this for the most part in Kirk Cousins career,
like when he signed with Minnesota, like they pretty well
run an organization with a lot of good players, right,
It's like from Kevin O'Connell, the Zimmer like either they're
good on defense, they're good on offense. A lot of
talent around him, like pretty good place to play. You know,
it's Alex Smith. Everyone called the guy a shitty player

(18:47):
until Jim Harbaugh showed.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Up and everyone's like, oh, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
And then he goes to Andy Reid's like, oh, this
guy's a playoff quarterback. And then up until his leg
snapped in half with Washington, I think they were six
and two.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
He's having a career year.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
It's like, yeah, you go to teams that either have
good coaches or good talent around you and people that
believe in you.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
You have a chance.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
And then when Josh McDaniels got there, that relationship was
a disaster and it turns out like say what you
want about Derek. Josh McDaniel's a joke as a head coach,
a complete scam artist. I mean, he ran one of
the great fugazi campaigns we have ever seen. I read it,
Dan POPEI wrote the article like five years ago. It
was like Jesus, I believe in this. Josh McDaniels has

(19:29):
changed his life around. It's about it like him looking
in the mirror and writing positive words of affirmation down
in a journal. It's like, this guy's a way different
human than he was for the Denver Broncos when he
drafted Tim Tebow and everyone in the building, including the animals,
couldn't stand the asshole. It's like he has changed. And
then we're like two months in, We're like, oh, same shit,

(19:51):
different day.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
And listen.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Dan pom Bacon writes some compelling articles. I just read
this one about Spyteck and Tom Brady. I actually I
text John and I'm like, I don't know if you
saw this, but this article about you and Tom is incredible.
Dan Pompey can write some gripping pieces that has Tom
on the record, so you know it's not, you know,

(20:13):
a scam piece like the Josh McDaniels was. And I
don't even know if Josh McDaniels was a scam piece
in the sense that he truly believed like, I'm a
positive person now, I'm different than I once was. I
will not be Belichick this time around. It's like, no, bro,
you will. You're gonna do the same thing over and over.
And it didn't matter who played for Josh McDaniels, you
would fail. Whether it's Team Tebow, whether it's Derek Carr,

(20:36):
whether it's Peyton Manning or Patrick Mahomes, it would not
go as well.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
As it could because of this.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
We say it all the time with Brock Purty, like
he's an incredible story and an easy guy to root for,
even though he's obviously a polarizing individual in the world
of people that talk about football, but like what he
has accomplished being the last pick in the draft and
how well he's played, it's fucking awesome. But he benefits
greatly from going to Kyle Shanahan. If I gave Brock

(21:03):
Purdy to some of these other teams, it probably would
not look that and he'd be the first guy to
tell you. And I would have told Derek, if you
would advise me, should I go to the New Orleans
Saints with Dennis Allen, Like, I don't know if that's
a great idea, man, this might be your one last
shot of getting an opportunity to be a long term

(21:23):
starter and getting some money. And obviously Monday talk shit
walks and they gave him seventy eighty million dollars guaranteed,
and he said yes, and now a couple years later
he's retired. So crazy story. You never know what's going
to happen in this league. But uh, pretty good run
for the Fresno State quarterback financially, that's for sure. The

(21:50):
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Speaker 1 (23:39):
A couple other things. Rookie mini camps have started all
over the NFL, and you know, obviously Chador and Doyan
Gabriel and all these quarterbacks taking reps and learning, learning
the plays and on the practice field. Obviously, when you
get drafted higher because of the any of the organization

(24:01):
is going to give you, they are going to be
more I would say, aggressively trying to make it look
you look good, and just spend and invest more time
in you, given that they invested a high resource at
a high pick and are paying you more money than
the rest of the draft class combined. But after a while,

(24:23):
if you're not good enough, you're not good enough. And
if the fourth round player by the middle of training
camp looks like he's a starter or is making plays
like he's gonna play, and he will play over the
first rounder if he is just objectively better. And so
all these guys were drafted all over the place. And
I saw Tom Brady kind of go on this rant.
I don't know what podcast he was on. It looked

(24:44):
like he was talking to like one of the Paul
brothers about like, listen, man, shador, everyone's making this big deal.
I told him, like, now it starts. I was drafted
way later than you were, buddy. Look where I'm sitting now.
So all these mini camps, all these other and then
training camp. You get to control your own destiny. Like

(25:05):
some guys make have more money in their bank account.
But just because I was drafted fourteenth or thirty seventh,
that doesn't guarantee me anything. Doesn't guarantee that I'm gonna
be a good player, doesn't guarantee me that I'm gonna
be a starter. It doesn't guarantee that I'm gonna be
on the team in three or four years. I mean,
think how many quarterbacks we've seen over the last several years,

(25:27):
drafted really high, who are now on other teams. It
was the big deal with like one thing that I
was told by scouting buddies. The thing with Shador is,
obviously his interviews went weird with the bad teams, and
I can't speak to those. I don't know anyone on
those teams. I wish I did, but I don't know
anyone on the Giants, so I can't. I've heard just

(25:47):
what you've heard about those situations. I do know a
lot of people on teams that are deep in the playoffs,
and all those teams are viewed as teams that have quarterbacks,
so he wouldn't talk to any of them. Well, those
teams interview everybody like you don't think the Kansasye Chiefs
interview guys that they aren't gonna draft because in three

(26:09):
or four years they might trade for that player, They
might acquire that player in waivers when he gets cut,
that guy might be on his team on the Ravens,
on the Bills, on the Eagles, on the Lions. And
when you just don't talk to those teams like they
don't get to know you. Yeah, they're probably not gonna
draft you, but that doesn't mean that they probably won't,

(26:31):
I don't know, sign you, trade for you, or acquire
you in the future.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
This is the NFL. Guys move teams all the time.
And that's because.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
I'm on a team as a high pick and then
a couple of years later, I'm not playing.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Well, why is that?

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Because some dude in the later rounds, maybe even undrafted
free agent, is in my spot. And it's the best
part about the NFL. And it starts now. Not that
you're able to glean that much from a time when
they're in shorts, shirt and a helmet, but this is
a great time if you're a young guy, to learn
that fucking playbook because when the pads do come on,

(27:07):
and it really separates the men from the boys. And listen,
hitting in practice, it's not like it was I'm sure
twenty thirty, forty years ago, but like the games are,
and you get to all the preseason reps and you
are judged incredibly, like with a fine tooth comb and
a microscope during that period of time in those plays,
and not even just by your team, the entire league

(27:28):
is evaluating you. So there's just a lot on the
line starting now. And listen, there are a lot of
guys on the team. They are third, fourth, fifth year
guys that their spot's not even in jeopardy. I mean,
it's the ultimate meritocracy, doggy dog world. Like if you
do not get it done, you will get replaced. There
are guys right now who are going to roll into

(27:51):
OTAs that have been the starter of the last couple
of years at guard, at linebacker, a slot receiver, it's
safety and are just looking at their wife or their
girlfriend or maybe hanging out with their mom today on
Mother's Day and just like I'm the starter, I'm the
starting guard for Team X, smiling, I'm making seven figs

(28:13):
I in three or four months, that guy will not
be the starter anymore, why he will have been beat
out by someone else. Could be a returning practice squad guy,
could be a fifth round pick, could be something someone
that he has never even met yet.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
That's football, and.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Really it starts now. These next month plus are much
more mental than physical, but that mental carries right into
training camp, where then it becomes this combination of mentally
and physically taxing. Last, but not least, the NFL. I
don't know if I don't think it was announced because
the schedule was supposed to come out later this week,
but I saw a report that this Brazil game is

(28:52):
going to be a thing, which I don't quite like.
I get playing the Friday night game, though I did see,
you know in this I forget who it was, Tommy
Tupperville or someone in politics made a comment of like,
you know, the NFL forever just abided by the rules
that they weren't supposed to play in any Fridays from

(29:13):
like September through the middle of December. They have clearly
not given a you know what lately and they aren't
following any rules. But this Friday week one like they've
been playing it and they're clearly doing it again. And
it's going to be Chargers Chiefs, which is an awesome
basically second night of the year game. I mean last
year was Eagles Packers, which again was fantastic just in

(29:36):
terms of the brands, playoff teams, just a cool matchup,
and I think we just got to buckle up. So
unless someone in Washington tells them Fridays are still off
limits in September, guys, which who knows. I mean, it's
a little above my pay grade to even be able
to guess if that's even going to happen. But get
ready for this this Friday Brazil game. I think it's

(29:59):
going to be one of the better games of the
year in terms of early season matchups, primetime game. And yeah,
the NFL loves It's funny when people say, like one
day we're gonna get football Monday through Sunday. I just
don't think we are. I mean, one of their greatest
attributes right now is the scarcity of the actual asset,

(30:24):
and that's the games. But they have spread more and
more over time, put more of these things on television,
and just because it's so fresh, it's early on preseason
is always such a letdown. We're so excited for football
and you watch like two series of a preseason game,
You're like, this is awful, So I'm not going to

(30:45):
complain and excited to watch Harbonugh Andy go at it
on you know, international soil.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
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(31:14):
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Speaker 1 (31:27):
Okay, it's a little mail bag time at John Middlecoff.
At John Middlecoff is the Instagram fire in those DMS
gear questions, answer right here on the show again, just
my name, two f's. We will start with Sean. Been
listening to your podcast religiously for the last year. I
appreciate that it's kind of embarrassing, but I just realized
I'd not liked and subscribed yet. You know we gotta

(31:49):
do that anyway, Charger fan, My question is about Greg Roman.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
I love what Harbaugh's.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Brought to the table, and it looks like Jesse Minner
is going to go down the same path as McDonald
and Seattle.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
But I worry about the offense.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
It seems like a Roman couldn't figure out whether he
wanted to run heavy offense or let it rip. He
didn't exactly develop lamar during his first years while OC
in Baltimore, which is concerning. Was he actually a good
OC on the Niners with Cap and alex Or was
a team so freaquently talented that any dude up the
street could have ran the offense. Is he just another

(32:21):
North turner from the Cowboy Dynasty, subpar played color but
had a loaded roster.

Speaker 2 (32:27):
That's a good question.

Speaker 1 (32:29):
He's a very polarizing individual. I remember his last year
with the Niners and that it ended up being Harbaughs
last year to Trent, Balkey's daughter tweeted, I think fire
Greg Roman. So everyone thought that, like, well, if she's
saying that, you know that Trent believes that. Obviously, I would.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Say, listen.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
He is a big reason I think Alex looked solid
and then he changed the offense completely for Kaepernick and
then they ran. You know, his ability to utilize that
offense for Lamar won him an MVP. So I think
Greg Roman is better than.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
He's talked about. Now is he.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
If we did an OC draft of coaches that are
either head coaches or just the OC's, you know, he's
not going to go in the top ten. But like,
here's the thing with Jim Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh is a
former quarterback, an offensive guy in theory, yet he can't
call the place. It's very rare that Jim Harbor, someone

(33:37):
in his position a former quarterback, is not the play caller.
But Jim Harbaugh is basically John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin, Dan Campbell.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Pete Carroll.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
I mean he's like an organizational leader. Raw Rock guy
rab Ros sounds negative. I mean that in a positive way,
but he swears by this guy. So I think Greg
Roman's probably better than he gets credit for. But I
do think he is going to be under the microscope
this year headed end of the season. But also, Jim

(34:06):
Harbaughs philosophy is running the ball. So like while Jim
is not calling play in play out the plays, there
is no doubt in my mind that he's often on
the head side, like let's run it here, let's run
it here.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
And what did they just do?

Speaker 1 (34:20):
They draft a running back in the first round, So
I would get ready for the running game to thrive.
What they had in Baltimore, what they had in San
Francisco elite run game forty nine ers were one of
the better running teams in the league with Frank Gore,
and they definitely were in Baltimore with lamar Win the MVP,
and they will be I would imagine with Hampton in

(34:42):
that running game. And now what do they They basically
drafted a running back in the first round. They also
signed Naji so they got two guys they plan on
running down your throat. How is it possible this from
another sean that the Dolphins are going to have another
season with a below average backup quarterback? Tua's injuries have
come completely derailed the previous seasons and left the team

(35:02):
utterly unwatchable. Knowing the injury history, They're gonna go into
a season with Zach Wilson who got beat out by
Jared Siddam and Denver in seventh round. Quinn yours make
it make sense?

Speaker 2 (35:16):
I can't. I don't know. I don't know what to
tell you.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Uh yeah, if I feel you as a Dolphins fan,
but I think it's gonna get really really ugly, really
really ugly, and then brighter.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Days could be ahead. Big fan of the pod.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Currently, as I drive through Davis, California on my way
to Sacramento, it reminded me of how you said you
grew up here. I know you used to live in
NorCal How would you compare life up there to Arizona
in terms of lifestyle, cost and overall vibe. Also curious
to hear your take as a Saints fan. With their
current quarterback situation looking shaky, do you think it makes

(36:00):
sense to trade Kamara while he still has value to
gain more draft capital. What's your prediction for the team's
direction over the.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Next few years.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, born in Raisin, Davis, spent eighteen years of my life.
You know, I'd go back. My brother and mom lived there.
It's way different than the way I grew up, And
I would say just northern California feels a little different
than the Northern California I grew up in the nineties,

(36:31):
The Vibes comparing it to.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
The vibes here.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
I mean, I'd put the vibes here are just elite.
I mean I would put the vibes in Scott's Dale,
Arizona up against any lifestyle. I would say somewhat similar.
The West Coast lifestyle is just I would say, pretty
transferable to California. Never been to Vegas or lived in Vegas,

(36:57):
but I would imagine Vegas has a similar in Arizona.
Kind of just the culture of us as humans. Cost
of living, It probably just depends on where you live.
I mean, there are areas that are outrageously expensive and
then their areas that are really cheap.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
The biggest difference is the taxes.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
So I'd say, yeah, I mean, the Kamara thing I would.
My guess is the Saints are not gonna mean it good.
It's gonna be a rough year when your quarterback situation
is Shuck Rattler and and Jay Cayner, who's my guy.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
By the way, I like Jay Canner.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
I don't know if he's an NFL quarterback, but my
guy Mark who invited me to this golf tournament that
I've been at basically Thursday, Friday and Saturday, which was incredible,
playing with like Phil Mickelson's teammates from college. The vibes
there are really really high. I mean some good people.
I've been to a couple of these invited over the years.

(38:00):
Country club one in the Bay Area. One here, I'd
say I put the vibes of the Arizona one. You know,
some former NFL guys. It was just it was strong,
it was the booze was flowing.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
It was sweet.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
But Mark, who invited me, who's a member out there.
His son's played college football. He played college football back
at San Diego, probably twenty plus years ago. And he
coached a little in this area, and he coached guys
like Mark Andrews. And he was saying, by far the
best players he's ever seen in high school were b

(38:36):
John Robinson, who is like, was like watching fucking Jim
Brown and his prime playing high school.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
It was stupid. And Spencer Rattler.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
He's like, I'm in this guy, I mean played college football.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
So he grew up in Chicago.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
He's been around football for a long time. His son
was a Division one recruit playing Division one football. Now, like,
I value with this guy's take because I remember watching
the Netflix thing. I'm like this he's just too douchey,
but he was saying he was really sweet, like really
really good. And then his career just got derailed at

(39:08):
Oklahoma and then he kind of resurrected it last year
or two years ago at South Carolina. Then he had
a lot of momentum going into to the Saints year.
But then obviously he's not gonna beat out Derek. But
then he started playing and it was kind of weird.
But you're like, how bad was the coaching? I wonder
if Spencer Rattler could beat out Shuck or it's impossible
because Kellen Moore is gonna want Shuck to be the guy.

(39:30):
Situation is just weird. I know that the GM is
a political position, but I cannot wrap my head around
how Greer still has a job in Miami. He is
the only GM hired before twenty one that doesn't have
a playoff win. In all, seven gms with a longer
tenure have been to a Super Bowl. He had five
first round picks over two years and didn't draft one

(39:54):
All Pro player. He's mismanaged contracts, his coaching hires are jokes,
and clearly other take advantage of him. How do you
guys like him keep their jobs, and then he ended
it with and apparently they don't usually, I would say
more than a coach, because a coach's work is just
so evident on game day, and game day is where

(40:17):
they pay the bills, even though the GM has a
huge say, But gms get to watch the game, typically
with the owner, so they can blame everything on the coach.
So it's easy to blame it on Mike McDaniel or
Vic Fangio or the decordinator or how they're using guys,
or Tyreek Hill's attitude, right, and you never blame yourself

(40:39):
because I'm in total agreement. He's done a horrendous job.
I mean he really has. I mean it's just like,
what is going on here? I think the come to
Jesus moment for the franchise though, is I'm telling you,
I'm all in on it being really really ugly this year.
Now I can't speak. I don't know the guy. I
don't know Steven Ross bizarre place. Clearly, if I wanted

(41:02):
to defend Greer, I have come around to maybe agreeing
with like, I don't think you can win there. I
think it's impossible to win in Miami.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
I just don't think it's possible.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Now, maybe if they had Sean McVay, would they have
a better chance.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Of course, But is that a place where you can
stay in winning.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
I think we have a long enough kind of resume
now of the Internet era that like you're just not
winning there.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
So maybe it's you could replace.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Career with the next guy, Like if they had Howie Roseman,
would they have a better chance, of course? But I
do think it's much easier to build winning teams in
Green Bay, in Philadelphia, in New England. It's kind of proven.
There's just a lot going on for good, rich, young
I said, good good looking, rich, in shape people in

(41:54):
Miami that are famous. Clearly that just the fuck around
factor there is really really high. Why do the Steelers
continue to not see the light and adapt to the
modern NFL philosophy of offense wins championships? Do you think
it'll take them being really bad to finally cave and
legitimately invest in the quarterback position? They just stockpile of
picks they have possibly moved off.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
TJ. Watt or Mika Fitzpatrick big fan of the show.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Well, I mean, i I'll never forget when arians was
fired from the Steelers for not running the ball, So
we can blame Tomlin. But like the culture in that
organization goes back to the seventies, right.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
The culture of.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
The Cowboys is, how do we strike a deal, how
do we get some star player for a fourth round pick. Well, Jerry,
you don't that's not the way it works. If you
want to get some legit player, pay them some cash
on the open market. You're not going to trade for
George Pickens and think, like, God, we got to steal here.
Every team in the league could have had the guy.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
They all said no.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
So it's like Jerry is the reason that they make
some of these crazy deals and ultimately, beside a couple
guys in their team, don't spend that much cash. But
the thing with the Cowboys, like everyone just blames Jerry,
where I think you get some of these other places
Tomlin takes a lot of shit.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
It's like, you don't think.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Tomlin looks around and like Baltimore has went from like
basically they were the Steelers two point zero and then
they've just completely changed with Lamar, Cincinnati got Joe Burrow
and they throw it all the time.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
You don't think he realizes that.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
I do think you could argue it's like the Rooney's
organizational philosophy, his old school toughness defense, which I'm all for,
Like that that's never gonna go out of style, right
that there are certain things in any walk of life
that are always gonna work. You know, I will teach
my child to look someone in the eye and shake
their hand, right, just like are you gonna shake less

(43:55):
hands in twenty forty than you would have in nineteen eighty?

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Probably?

Speaker 1 (44:00):
But to me, that's never going old. You could argue,
like the thank you note shit, we still I mean
got a to do list that we have got an
attack here thank you note to for our wedding? Could
you argue the thank you note little outdated?

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Right? I mean?

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Do I need a thank you note or email or
text message work? Probably? But again the thank you note
still has a lot of power. Is a thank you
note going to exist in twenty years?

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Maybe not?

Speaker 1 (44:27):
But I never followed anyone from teaching their child or.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Writing a thank you note? Right? There is power behind it, right.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
I do think you could look at the Roonies and
go like, I do understand what you.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
See, but like, what are we doing? Guys?

Speaker 1 (44:44):
Because if the Rooney's told everybody like, hey, we need
to take a quarterback high. Now, maybe they'd argue we
did that a couple of years agoing to blow up
in our face. I'd say, yeah, it was Kenny Pickett.

(45:05):
Question for the bag, what's up with the whole JJ
is a handoff merchant narrative. Even if that's the case,
the Vikings would still be the perfect fit for him.
Upgraded a line, two starting caliber backs and the quarterback whisper.

Speaker 2 (45:20):
I think it's just because.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
They are depending on a guy that in big games
against the best teams, you get to third and seven
to third and twelve, second and long against the Green
Bay Packers ENTI game in the fourth quarter. This is
not like in Michigan. They out talented everybody, just what
Mac Jones did the same thing with Sabing. We just

(45:44):
have better players than you. And in the NFL, the
Vikings are loaded their roster man for man.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Is one of the best in the league.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
But like, you're still gonna make some passes and he
comes from an offense that didn't rely on him to
do that, So can he do that? Obviously physically he
can make the passes, but is he gonna be comfortable
doing that big picture you like, develop that guy totally.
But what makes his situation unique is like if I

(46:15):
told you if you're a Vikings fan and said you're
one and done in the playoffs, that'd be pretty disappointing.
I'm not saying that your aspirations are win the Super
Bowl this year, but it's like being the mix for
the NFC Championship game. Standard that the I would say
the expectations and the ambitions of the fans and the
team are pretty high. A lot of rookie quarterbacks get

(46:36):
to kind of fly under the radar.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
He does not.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Like for example, if Tyler Shuck wins the job for
the Saints, they could win four games. He throws twenty
five touchdowns, it's a successful year. It's not even about
the stats with JJ, It's about winning and making big
plays and not throwing picks and making big passes. Like
It's just it's an intense environment. Even if that's two
or three passes a game, obviously he's throw more than that,

(47:00):
but I'm just saying, like they are gonna be two
or three passes in the second half, They're gonna be
highly scrutinized. What's your opinion on the Kiwan Williams contract situation.
The Rams in recent history haven't paid their running backs
big money since Gurley. No chance they're paying him zero.
I would imagine which is the right business move. You

(47:21):
just play out this season. If he has a huge
bounce back and can hold onto the ball, maybe you
would entertain.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
Franchising and probably not, but yeah, he's running back.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Solid player. Draft another one, longtime listener. I mean I
actually like them. Fumbling issues like, to me, if you
have bad hands, right, you see some of these receivers,
so just don't have good hands, like that's usually maybe
you can, like incrementally small, small minute details improve like

(47:56):
from you know, if one to ten, if your hands
are a four, maybe over the course of several years
you can turn them into a five. But you're never
gonna have hands like Chris Carter right Marvin Harrison, like,
your hands are always gonna be average. I do think
fumbling is something that can be fixed.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
We saw it with.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Tiki run Tiki Barber like. Fumbling is something that you
can actively work too, correct so point of pressure. I'm
a running back coach, but I do feel more confident
in fixing a fumbling issue than working on certain things
like it's if you're a four to six guy, you're
never going to be a four to four guy, like
you're always going to be slow relative of the NFL. Right,

(48:39):
to me, fumbling is something like I do think it's
a tangible, specific thing that you can work on and
there are coaching points and we've just actually seen it.
Just like accuracy with quarterbacks, some guys are going to
be inaccurate, but there are definitely ways that you can
help that out with better footwork, you know, more rhythm,
more understanding of the offense. Lifetime Saints fan I bleed

(49:03):
Black and Gold personally think the Saints are primed to
be a dark horse in the South this year. I
think a guy with a lot of upside and elite
traits like Shuck really takes their quarterback room to a
new level. Also, I think the Brandon Staley higher will
pay dividends come mid year. Thoughts, I think you just

(49:25):
have so much unknown with the quarterback. He is old, right,
so he's a lot of experience coming into the year.

Speaker 2 (49:35):
We saw bo Knicks. It shouldn't be too big for him.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
He's played in big programs, he's played in big games.
He's seen it all, so there's a maturity coming. If
you use Knicks as an example, I would use Pennix
as example too, But Peni's only got to start the
last couple of games. If Penix had started the whole season,
I do think him and Knicks we're just like plug
and play ready. Now I don't mean plug and play
ready to be sweet. I just mean plug and play ready.

(49:59):
I like Penix and I'm rooting for Penix, but he
sitting Penix makes no sense like he was ready to.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
Roll Tyler Shuck ready to roll.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
But how good You're gonna be very dependent on who's
around you. They do have Kamara, Chris Lave is a
good player. The one dude twenty two who got hurt
at the end of the year can fly, playmaker. He's interesting.
Their tight ends pretty good. They've invested multiple first round
picks these last two years in offensive linemen Banks and

(50:30):
the Oregon State kid last year is good. So they've
invested a lot in that unit. And they got an
offensive head coach who's gonna call the plays. So yeah,
I mean, I think the offense if the quarterback is good,
which is an unknown, I wouldn't bet on him being good.
I wouldn't bet on him necessarily be med. If you
told me he's just solid, I'd believe you. If like

(50:51):
he's just a starter in the league for five or
six years, I think that's believable. But I do think
the Saints defense, like I think Brandon Saley's aready overrated.
I think he got a lot of credit for the Rams,
who have a loaded defense. I got news for you.
Anyone who's the defensive coordinator of the Rams is good.
Why they have good players, they scout well, they have

(51:13):
a good organizational philosophy of toughness.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
And he did it.

Speaker 1 (51:17):
One year with like the greatest player one of them
in the history of the league in the prime of
his career and Jalen Ramsey who was in the prime
of his career. We witnessed in with the Chargers was embarrassing,
and then I saw another coach come in that knows
what he's doing and their defense was good. So to me,
the offense, I would be more bullish on your guys

(51:38):
offense than I would be on Brandon Staley in the defense.
Dennis Allen is a much better defensive coach than Brandon Staley.
What's up, man, big fan, I've got two questions for you. First,
Big Lions Fan, how do you think we should approach
upgrade in the defense while keeping the space out of
our star players extensions? I feel like we need another
true edge rusher. Curious how you manage that balance. My

(52:01):
second question is more personal. This time next year, I'll
have my bachelor's in computer science. I have an internship
lined up that'll pay really well after a year, but
I won't be making money in the beginning and really
don't want to move back home. I've also been considering
just jumping into the job right after graduation to stay independent.
What's your opinion. Let me start with your second question.

(52:25):
I didn't make very much money early on, and I
was just you had to like focus on the big picture.
One thing I knew, and this is no shot at
my parents, who did an awesome job and couldn't have
been any more supportive emotionally just over the course of
my life and supported me in it whatever I wanted
to do, Like you know, me going into football. This

(52:47):
was not like I didn't grow up in the Shanahan's household.
My dad was a farmer, my mom worked at the
state capital.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
I mean I didn't.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
It wasn't like you should do that. Most people was like,
be a doctor, be a lawyer. Obviously I wasn't smart
enough to do any either of those who are have
any interest. But my point is like it would have
been easy for them to be like, what are you doing?

Speaker 2 (53:06):
But I did it. Again, no shade at them. I
was never ever ever.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Moving back in once I left. When I went to college,
I was never coming back home. That was never an option.
So for me, the number one thing, like I could
never live with them again. Once I left, I was going.
Your boy was out spreading his wings. Now, whether I
had to live in the shittiest apartment, whether I had
to do whatever I had to do. I also like,

(53:32):
I mean, while some of my friends were doing well,
traveling and partying in their mid twenties, like I worked
a lot, didn't bother me. Now it's a little different
day and age. Internet wasn't quite as strong in terms
of social media, So your fomo, I enjoyed what I did,
but like, my life was a little different than some people.
And if you can stomach like having a little shitty

(53:55):
er start, but do it on your own. I do
think there's a lot of it's impossible to quantify, but
I do think the benefits for your self confidence after
that are pretty strong. And it's like, I just needed
my own I couldn't go from college doing whatever I

(54:17):
wanted whenever I wanted to ever going back there. It
wasn't wasn't happening.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
I understand some people. You know.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
I also never worked in that area necessarily, so it
wasn't even something that was on the table. But if
that's something that means a lot to you, don't do
it and figure out a way. And if that means
living a little crappier situation for a year, I think
you'll look back and it'll make for a good story
and you'll be glad that you do that.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
The Lions, I.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Mean part of they draft the defensive tackle in this draft, right.
I mean they've drafted multiple front seven players around Hutchinson
over the last couple of years. I mean that's part
of the way the sport works. I mean, I I thought, hey,
if Miles Garrett gets traded, if Max Christy gets traded,
the Lion should go all in. Well, not only did
neither of them get traded, they got to combine like

(55:09):
two hundred and fifty million dollars in guaranteed dollars. So
I don't even know what they should. I mean, you
can't get mad at them for not trading for those guys.
They weren't even available. I think the lines are fine,
and let me hammer that home again. Find a way,
don't move in with your parents back in and I

(55:29):
understand it's like a lot of people do it, and listen,
sometimes you don't have a choice. But if you have
a job they can pay, just keep your head above
water and you gotta eat ramen like you don't always
have to live great. I know everyone on Instagram thinks
everyone's living like a king.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
That's just not the fact that life.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
A big fan of the pod question, could you see
a world where the Vikings win fourteen games with JJ McCarthy.
I believe he's about eighty percent of advertised It's certainly possible,
improve defense with Flores returning, and improved offensive line and
run game, as well as arguably a top five receiver.
Am I insane or is just another year of media

(56:06):
underrating the Vikings?

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Well?

Speaker 1 (56:09):
I would say if you had a top ten quarterback
on your team, you are you know, competing for the
one seed. Sam Darnold last year was a top ten
quarterback in the NFC or in the NFL, and you
competed for the one seed right up into the last
regular season game. That's in your teams on paper is
even better now, I would say, and I think you

(56:30):
guys would agree. Relatively healthy, right, you lost your left tackle.
I forget which week that was, eight, ten, twelve, But
for the most part, like Jefferson, you know your defensive guys.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Did Addison get injured? I don't think he really did.
I think you guys were mostly healthy.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
So assuming health, if JJ just has to be like
a top fifteen quarterback and you're winning twelve thirteen games,
the thing is we just is great.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Unknown.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
What's he gonna look like on the road Week three
in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
And its raining. I don't know. There's just no way
to know.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Congrats Happy Fugazi Friday got a mailbag question. I'm a
high volume NFL Best ball player, shout out to your
sponsor DK. Do you foresee any macro changes to the
NFL strategy that could lead to micro edges in fantasy,
For example, more running or more passing than in recent years,
more rotations and committees at running back first, more workhorse rules.

(57:39):
I actually think the workhorse kind of back. You know,
you just saw Hampton get drafted in the first round,
Like I know they signed Naji Harris, Like, that guy's
gonna have a massive workload these next couple of years.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
You know, if Christian.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
McCaffrey's healthy, he gets all the touches. Sakwon Barkley gets
all the touches, right, So you'd argue the running game
or shifting. You just Sean Payton is so excited for
that UCF running back, the guy the Steelers just drafted
from Iowa. That guy's gonna be good. Caleb Johnson, that

(58:12):
guy's a really good player. So I do think we're
gonna see a lot more guys get heavy workloads and
the run game because in the NFL, the rules you know,
for passing one. If your quarterback situation is just somewhat questionable,
the easiest way to help that is a running game.

(58:33):
And it's because of the rules and the physicality of
the game has changed a little bit. The line of scrimmage.
Offensive line, defensive line is the one area where you
can get after it. And if you draft well, and
you build a good offensive line, like you can run
the ball down people's throps.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
That's why the Eagles DoD It's why the forty nine
ers with their scheme do it. I mean, look at
Cook with the Bills.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
So I think that we're getting I don't want to
say a renaissance, but I think teams are much more
inclined to ride these guys.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
Now.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
The hard part is in fantasy. I'm not a huge
fantasy guy. I've played a little DFS in my day,
but haven't you guys always And I don't even know
what best ball is, but like, don't you guys always
draft running backs pretty highly. It's not like they're in an
undervalued position.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
So I do.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
I do think the lead backs coming back. Speaking of
the lead back question for the mailback, what did you
think of the Chargers? I know some didn't like them
taking Hampton in the first round, but I think he
fits perfectly. Also, at the end of the wildcard loss
of the Texans said that he felt they did Herbert
a disservice, and I think with the offensive players they
chose over the weekend will really elevate the offense. I

(59:46):
feel like some are sleeping on them. What do you
think think about Harbaugh's success, you know, post Andrew Luck,
which he had, I mean as a full time star.
I think for one year that he left, then Shahgat
But with the forty nine Ers, Frank Gore played a huge,
huge role for Jim Harbo's success. I think Jim's Harbaugh

(01:00:06):
still to this day calls Frank Gore like his favorite
NFL player. Ever, so if I go to Frank Gore
his stat page, I bet so. In twenty eleven, when
Harbaugh gets there, he runs for twelve hundred yards, twelve
hundred yards, eleven hundred yards, eight eight nine touchdowns, but

(01:00:28):
he also catches seventeen, twenty eight and sixteen. He actually
caught the ball less than he did. That's actually something
to keep an eye on. I wonder if Greg Roman
is going to throw the ball to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
The running back.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
At the time the forty nine Ers, they had multiple
running backs, but Frank Gore is a pretty good pass
They honestly probably underutilized him in the passing game. But
I would imagine that, I mean, it's gonna be, it's
gonna work. And then look at Michigan. I mean, his

(01:01:04):
best team had Kuorum, Gus Edwards, not Gus Edwards who
was the running back? I think two thousand and twenty
three Michigan football stats. What's that kid's name? Not Gus Edwards,
rushing Donovan Edwards, who I think had a bad injury.

Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
I I think he got drafted.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Blake Koram had twenty seven touchdowns. Blake Koram's stats essentially looked.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Like Frank Gore.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Twenty eight carries. This is in twenty twenty three, fifteen games.
Two hundred and fifty eight carries, thirteen hundred yards, twenty
seven touchdowns, sixteen catches.

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
They did throw the ball.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
I don't think the Chargers are gonna throw the ball
as much to Hampton, and they throw it to whoever
the bat maybe nause something to keep an eye on.
Hampton's gonna work. Hampton's gonna be good. Okay, last question,
So I think the Giants had a good draft, better
than people think. Dart won't start this year barring any

(01:02:10):
major circumstance, but I think the kid can play.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
What are your thoughts on Skataboo.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
I was around a lot of Arizona State guys the
last couple of days. I mean Diehart's I mean dudes
that have been around the program before Tillman and Plumber
got there. They talk about Skataboo like he's Jim Brown
or Walter Payton.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
I mean his season.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
For the people around this program, he's a really, really
big deal. And I got asked a lot about what
I thought, and I said, because a lot of these guys,
you know, are rooting for him. But I think the
question I constantly heard of Scataboo was like, well, he
just runs over everybody. How is that going to translate
to the NFL? And I say, historically, it's a risky

(01:02:55):
proposition drafting running backs that run guys over. It's like
drafting wide reciss that just only catch contested balls. That's
something In the NFL, It's like it gets.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
A lot harder to do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
And I would agree that the contested thing is still
a big red flag if that's most of your plays,
not a route run or whatever, you just body guys up.
Like if you just think this is the next DeAndre Hopkins,
probably not. It's like this is the next Draymond Green?
You have We've heard that for a decade. None of
them turned out to be to me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Skataboo.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
His short, airy quickness is excellent and he has great hands.
But like the NFL, if this was two thousand or
nineteen ninety three, I'd be like, he's not gonna be
able to run these guys over. These guys are just
bigger and stronger than him. But think about the NFL now,
most of these linebackers don't weigh two hundred and sixty
two hundred and seventy pounds. You're not seeing Ken Norton Junior.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
In the hole.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Greg Lloyd and Kevin Green aren't chasing you down. So
the size of the guys you're running over. I think
the forty nine or drafted a guy from Oklahoma State
that was like two hundred and twenty five pounds the game,
and Howie Roseman.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
Talked about this after the draft.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
It's a speed in space game. So a guy likes
Skataboo actually benefits from a lot of smaller, quicker guys
on the field. Now, they can run him down, but
if they're meeting him in the hole, I like his chances,
So I actually think his style. Now, is he gonna
have a fifteen year career? I don't know, But is
he gonna play in the league one thousand and Listen,

(01:04:26):
it's sometimes when you try to dunk over guys get
the ball blocked. He is going to try to run
some guys over and he is gonna get hit hard.
He's also gonna light some dues up because some of these,
even the safeties now, are that how many There's Cam
Chancellor isn't in the NFL. There's no John Lynch or
Steve Atwater coming down the hole to fucking light him up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Look at the sides of.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
These safeties that are drafted over the last couple of years,
They're not as big. Kyle Hamilton is an outlier. So
I actually think the league the dynamics of the size
to fit Skataboo and I forget the guy's name. I'm
not It's been a long couple of days boozing a
lot of sun and I'm just out of football mode.

(01:05:09):
But the rookie they drafted last year from the Giants
is a good player. Of the rookie, I think Skataboo's
gonna be good. They're gonna have a good running back room.
Their running back room is gonna be solid. I'm still
a little surprised they picked up Kvon's fifth year option.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
I don't think every team in the league would have
done that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
But I'm bullish on Scataboo again. Shorter term career. You know,
if you said over under how many years does he
play in the NFL, like five and a half, and
you know, I might take the under. I'm not expecting
like a ten year running I'm not expecting Frank Gore here.
But because if you're gonna play a long time at

(01:05:47):
running back, the reason Frank did. Frank didn't run people over.
He got down, he got out of bounds, he made
you missed, he hit that. He just did not take hits.
It's honestly the most underrated skill Frank Gor's career was
like he did not end up in that many collisions, Like, yeah,
that was not really his game. He he's not playing,

(01:06:08):
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Skataboo is like George Kittle. It's like, oh shit, should
I get out of bounds?

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
I see three dbs over there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
Let's lower my shoulder and go seek contact, which I'm
not a huge fan of for running backs because I
think it just shortens your career. But like, if that's
your skill set, that's your skill set.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
And you write it out. They took him in the
fourth round.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
So if the Giants get a couple of years of
him playing well like that's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
That's all they're really looking for.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
If they get i don't know, forty games over the
next five years i've been playing at a high level,
that they're good. I'm bullish on Scataboo for sure. The
volume

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