John dives into the impact of Joe Flacco winning Comeback Player of the Year and how him winning has changed the criteria for the award and if that's a good thing, why Shedeur Sanders shouldn't be skipping the Manning Camp when all of the other top QB's will be there, does Austin Ekeler have a point as to why he's no longer on the Chargers, and what's the real reason why Aaron Rodgers skipped Jets mini-camp.
Lastly, John answers your questions during this episode's mailbag segment.
7:29 - Flacco and the Comeback Player of the Year
10:53 - Shedeur Sanders skips the Manning camp
12:14 - Austin Ekeler and the Chargers
13:32 - Aaron Rodgers and the Jets
23:01 - Mailbag
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (01:48):
What is going on? Everybody? John Middlecop three and out
podcast recording This bad Boy on a Tuesday afternoon. You
probably listen on a Wednesday. Here's the game plan. I
wanted to hit on a couple things. NFL Comeback Player
of the Year changes its parameters, Peyton Manning passing a
camp Shador Sanders, no show, rumors of Rogers it turns
(02:12):
out might be on ayahuasca instead of being a practice,
which I think is just hilarious. And then we'll do
a big mail bag at John middlecoff is the Instagram
firing those dms get your question answered on the show
very easy. So we will be a mailbag heavy podcast
for sure. This is gonna be my last podcast of
the week. I'm gonna go on with Colin on Thursday night,
(02:35):
so that'll be out Friday. I'm sure talking some football.
You know, he loves talking Rogers and Little Ayahuasca, so
we will discuss that as well, and we'll have podcasts
next week and then no podcast on the week of
July fourth because I'll probably be drinking and be hanging
out as many of you will too. I think July
(02:57):
fourth on a Thursday or something kind of weird week
whenever the holidays in the middle of the week, not
a Friday or Monday. But uh, that's the that's the
game plan as of right now. So make sure you
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(03:20):
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headline I saw today that I thought, this is so dumb.
Joe Flacco won the Comeback Player of the Year in
(04:48):
twenty twenty four, rightfully so. And I know DeMar Hamlin
escaped death and it was remarkable that he was able
to come back, but he didn't really play. Joe Flacco
became the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns when Watson's
shoulder didn't work anymore. He wasn't on the team, he
(05:10):
wasn't the backup. He wasn't even in the league, as
he had said, I was taking naps and taking my
kids to school. I was waiting for my children in
the carpooling. Now, the league or maybe the AP, whoever
controls this award, has changed the parameters on how to
(05:31):
win it. Now. Listen, if you have a major injury
and you come back and have a great season, no
one ever argued that is an incredible accomplishment and you
should win the Comeback Player of the Year. That's awesome.
But now that is the only way to win the award.
To have an injury or to have something happen to
(05:52):
you physically that you overcome and come back and perform.
I'm sorry, you can be the comeback Player of the
Year if you're literally not playing football. The other thing
with Joe Flacco is he had been objectively awful for
several years. And I know the playoff game did not
go well, they got their butt kicked against the Houston Texans.
(06:16):
But what Joe Flacco did last year was freaking amazing.
It was easily one of the best stories of the year.
And when stuff like that happens, when a guy who
has been a good player or a famous player either
washes out of the league or is just kind of
irrelevant for a couple of years and come back and
has either a Pro Bowl like season or does something
(06:38):
like Flacco does, they should be up for the award.
I don't think we need to overthink this just because
you shatter your leg and come back. You shouldn't have
the market cornered on the ability to vote for other people.
And I just think this is stupid and this is classic,
Like what are we doing here? Did anyone argue about
(07:00):
Joe Flacco's story last year? Weren't we all amazed by
what was going on. He literally saved the franchise. They
were in major trouble. I mean, they had problems when
Watson went down. The guy came off the couch to
lead them to eleven wins and the playoffs. If that's
not a comeback story, I don't know what is. I
(07:23):
saw this headline today. The Manning Academy is going to
go on in the next couple days, maybe this weekend
or next week, and every top college quarterback is going.
Carson Beck, Quinn Yours. You just go around all the guys,
Jalen Milroe, everyone who's someone in college football attends the event,
(07:43):
just like they always have. Right, all the top prospects
go to the Manning Academy. Hell, Johnny Manziel once got
kicked out of it. If there's one name missing, Shoudre Sanders.
Now I don't have the report, doesn't have the reasoning
why he's not attending. I just know this Colorado thing
has gotten a little weird. I mean, with Dion and
(08:05):
Schador talking a bunch of shit to a player who
had to transfer. He is going to be one of
the more fascinating evals coming into the year, just because
there's a lot of noise. There's obviously a lot of talent,
but the team is terrible. There's some pressure. Now you
move conferences, which is a much easier conference in theory.
(08:26):
Is the team any good? I don't know. Are they
gonna make a Bowl game? Having a long time I'm
just telling you, this thing's this thing's got potential to
get weird. And I know through the first couple games
last year and I thought this too. I'm like, this
guy's gonna be the number one overall pick. That this
happens a lot. I mean, we once did it with
Josh Rosen. He ended up going ten. I'm not acting
(08:49):
like this guy's not gonna get drafted high. I just
know if you're a scout, if you're a front office,
you're gonna have to do a lot of work in
this situation. Listen, I'm not acting like it's the end
of the world. He's not going to the matting Academy.
Is a little weird. Is a little weird, Like I'm sorry,
little bizarre. Literally everyone always goes Austin Eckler, who is
(09:13):
one of the better quote unquote scatbacks in the league.
Taylor made for modern day football you can catch the ball.
Pretty good running back, but really good out of the backfield,
very productive player. Said. The reason he's not still in
the Chargers is because Jim Harbaugh and that offense wants
a guy to carry the ball three hundred times a year,
(09:35):
which I got news for you. Most guys don't even
sniff two hundred and fifty carries anymore. Austin, The reason
you're not on the Chargers anymore is because you're not
a fit. Jim Harbaugh doesn't use guys like you. Jim
Harbaugh likes guys that can run the ball between the tackles.
It's what he yearns for, going back to the forty
(09:57):
nine Ers, his favorite player of all time, Frank Gore
to the guy that he has dominated with the last
couple of years, Blake Korum. He wants an every down back.
You're not that guy. They might have lied to your
face say they want a guy that could carry the
ball three hundred times a year. They just don't want
you as a player, and there's nothing wrong with that.
When new coaches come in, schemes change ideas, change with
(10:19):
how they want players. Austin Eckler is a really good player.
If depending on my coach. I would want him on
my team. But when you say Jim Harbaugh, I don't
think Austin Eckler like welcome to the business. Rumors are
flying that Aaron Rodgers and I said this last week,
and I'll continue to say, I don't think it's a
(10:40):
big deal that in terms of football that he missed
the mini camp. I think it has zero impact on
the actual team come Monday night football against the forty
nine ers Week one, I think it has zero impact.
Where it does have an impact is because of the
market they're in New York, because of the NFL. It's
(11:01):
and obviously him, you could argue now is definitely the
most polarizing player in the NFL, their coach who feels
a little over his head, and all these stories become
beer stories. But the rumor is that he went a
long way away to do Ayahuasca. I don't really have
anything to say besides that's kind of hilarious, like this
(11:23):
is the ultimate on brand move. I guess I would
if I was Robert Sala or Joe Douglas. I don't
think it would be crazy to push back, like, couldn't
we just do it? Three days later? And just avoid
all the hoopla. But he's like, Hey, we got an
ayahuasca convention in fucking Japan or China or in you know,
(11:44):
some mountains somewhere in India. I gotta be there, bro,
or I don't know. Do you eat the leaves? Again,
I'm not anti. I'm not anti drugs, not a drug user,
but definitely not. I haven't done ayahuasca. I'm not too
proud or definitely too proved food or too big of
a stiff to ever try. It seems like it's not
really for me. But right circumstances, you never know. I
(12:08):
do think if you just say it out loud, he
missed mandatory minicamp to do ayahuasca. Like, I get the pushback,
I get people going, are you serious. It's like one thing, Hey,
brother's wedding. Hey, my wife's having a baby. Hey my
grandpa is sick, Like there are a lot of Hey
(12:29):
I have this trip planned with my wife's family. There's
no way to get out even that, Like you're doing ayahuasca,
like you have the whole summer to eat these leaves
or snort this dust or whatever the hell it actually is.
And again, I'm not some you know, big Jay who
doesn't like I get it. I have friends that have
(12:50):
done it. I understand the potential positive impact. I guess
it has on your mental space, which is big for Aaron.
But when you do just say I heard Nick right,
He's like, just say it out loud. He missed practice
to do drugs. Like it is. It is kind of funny,
Like some stories are just kind of funny. Belichick dating
(13:12):
a twenty four year old. They bonded over philosophy. He's
helped her with her homework, he goes to her cheerleading competitions.
There's no way that you don't just smile when you
talk about Bill Belichick and his twenty four year old girlfriend.
I kind of think this is in the same vein
Aaron Rodgers left practice to do ayahuasca again, don't have
(13:37):
that set in stone, don't have that second source just
seeing it flying on the internet do. I just find
it funny. A lot of players in the UH this
is one thing as a pro scout in the NFL,
you are tabbed with following the CFL, and we've had
(13:58):
a lot of different leagues over the year, XFL, the UFL,
what's going on now, the AFL, the USFL, whatever league
is going on domestically or in Canada where guys that
played college football and maybe played a training camp or
were on a practice squad, it's on you to follow that.
So you are watching that tape and evaluating. Now it
(14:21):
can be relatively it's not like you're just evaluating every player.
You're following guys that are productive, that had college grades,
you know, draftable grades coming out, maybe guys that have
played in the NFL. So you can whittle down the
list pretty easily. But you do got to keep taps
because when so and so from the Birmingham Defenders and
(14:45):
you're working for the Eagles signs with the Cowboys, it's like, hey,
were we on this guy? Were we interested in this human?
And I have seen six or seven players sign with
various teams, and that's all because of the Pro scouts.
And they get no love, like college scouts get a
lot more credit just in terms with the casual fan
(15:05):
because they're going into schools. They're writing the reports. Hey
I love this guy, I didn't like this guy. The
Pro scouts is a pretty thankless job. You just sit
in the office all day, you watch practice squad players.
You basically write up every team, and you watch these
leagues that no one is watching beside actually like a
million people. I think they're actually doing relatively well in
(15:27):
terms for what they are. But you do get a
lot of credit if you sign one of these guys.
And I'll never forget. I had one of my tasks
my first year in the league was to keep an
eye on this league that went under after one year
in this safety from the Sacramento Mountain Lions, I think
they were called Andrew Sendejo. I was like, God, this
(15:49):
guy's pretty good player, plays the ball, hits people. And
I went to my guy, Lewis Ridick, who was our
pro director at the time. I said, Andrew, we should
take a look at this guy. You know, ten years
later he has a long NFL career. No one listened
to me, but hey, it is what it is. So props,
do all the pro scouts out there in the NFL
(16:11):
grinding on USFL tape because I'll promise you this, you
get a lot of internal credit from your GM, from
your head coach and your owner if that guy were
to make the team. Hell, it's an enormous win. If
a guy you signed from a league like that, makes
your practice squad, so you never know. That's a great
part about football. You have a lot of undrafted free agents.
(16:33):
Random guys make teams all the time. So this guy
is probably a little harder because you've been playing football,
you know, during the spring, so you better come into
training camp. You're a little behind. You don't know the playbook.
All the rookies and the younger players have been practicing
and working out with the team, so you're at a disadvantage.
But football's crazy. You never know. Okay, let's dive into
(17:03):
a little thing we call the mailbag where we interact
with the people. It's very easy to get involved. You
just go to my Instagram account at my name John
middlecoff two f's. Most of my former employers could never
get that right. They only put one F. So middle
cough and you fire in a question and you get
it answered. Here on the show, I saw a picture recently,
(17:26):
within the last couple of days going viral of Landon Donovan.
He obviously had a receding hairline when he was playing,
and he hasn't been playing for a while, and he
must have got hair plugs that went wrong, because geez,
Louisa looks terrible. He's got like hanging head from the
or hanging hair from the side of his ear. It's
(17:46):
a bad look. And I don't have hair plugs. I'm
a bald man. Not opposed to coming back. But did
hear that they do remove I know I had a
friend that got him and honestly probably needs to redo
him now. But they put out of the back of
your head. And as Joe Buck wants, it's very painful.
It is not a pleasant experience. But if it goes right,
(18:07):
you look like Tom Brady look fantastic. Okay, let's go
uh let's start with white, huge cheese fan. Here, I
was rewatching the miked up from last year's Super Bowl.
You have. The best part about rooting for sweet teams
is like whenever you're bored, you're like, I'll just YouTube
some sweet content from my squad, and it's it's always fun.
(18:29):
That's the best when you're a loser, like when you
root for a awful team, which at some point in
time you all go through the off season when you're
bored that you just it's it's tough reading articles like hey,
we got this fourth rounder and camped it looks like
a Steal's like, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.
But when you're just sweet on top of the mountain,
(18:51):
you just can never over consume. You're like, yeah, I
watch the micd up segment for the seventeenth time Mahomes
calls out to Rice be ready for the ball before
he's even relayed the play to the rest of the
offense in the huddle. How many quarterbacks in the league
have a good idea who will be open on a
(19:11):
specific play before they even break the huddle. Also, how
many quarterbacks all time, I would say the EBB and
flow like in that situation, it's probably a short list.
I think good quarterbacks throughout the week when and you
have a good offensive coordinator, and you've scheme plays, and
(19:31):
you have a pretty good idea this is gonna be
if they're in the coverage, this is gonna be. This
is gonna work. Right, So any good quarterbacks slash good
offensive coordinator. The communication is when we call this play
because you've schemed it up during practice. This is a touchdown.
This is an explosive play. But I think what you've
(19:52):
really seen out of Mahomes is obviously to become really
famous and a fun player. I mean nothing like winning
super Bowls. What like individual games as a quarterback are
sweet plays, right, And for a quarterback like Mahomes or
Josh Allen or Justin Herbert, it's like the sixty yard
bomb on a rope. I mean, Rogers did it forever, right.
(20:13):
I mean when I think Rogers' best play of all time,
I mean best play of all time. It might be
that Arizona Cardinal playoff game. I think it was like
the wild card game where he ended up hitting to
hail Mary, but he scrambled in the end zone and
hit a crazy play down the field. Like when you
can do stuff like that, it's like holy shit. But
(20:37):
what makes a great player is like doing some basic
things well, understanding when they blitz where I have to
throw it to immediately when I hit the check down,
do I hit the guy in stride or does he
have to stop? And is it the difference between an
eight yard gain on third and seven for a first
down or like a three yard I'm tackled because I
(20:59):
had to stop the line can make the play. I
don't want to say he's mastered the position because I
still think that probably takes some time. But relative to
his experience. I don't think you can be any better
because physically he has all the trades to do all
the special stuff. And then when you master the mind
game of playing quarterback. I mean that's why. I mean
(21:20):
the two best quarterbacks of my lifetime, Peyton Manning and
Tom Brady, and they had to because they didn't have
the physical skills of Aaron Rodgers. They mastered the game mentally,
so when physically they could match up with the mental game,
they were an unstoppable player. And Tom's the best version
of that. And I think Mahomes has become much closer
(21:44):
to like Peyton and Tom in terms of I can
just control a game that we have to win seventeen
to fourteen. Obviously, when those guys have weapons, they can
score thirty five to forty points no problem on basically
ninety percent of the league, and then against the best defenses,
find a way to score or twenty four to twenty
eight points. But like what happens in that moment when
(22:06):
you and Andy are on the same page, when you
know the defensive looks, when you've mastered the coverages that
they run. Obviously, with the Super Bowl, you have multiple
weeks to study the team. I guess they played the
forty nine ers last year. I think they play again
this year. They killed the Niners two years ago is
right after they traded for McCaffrey. But I mean in
(22:29):
the two playoff games. I would say his first Super
Bowl against the Niners. He's most famously known for the
lot play to Tyreek Hill, which was just an awesome play.
This Super Bowl and really this playoff run, especially the
last two games the Ravens and the Niners were about
mastering the mental game, and that's what makes just all
(22:50):
time greats. And that's what he is at this point
because he was dealing with his best receiver was a
rookie in Travis who I I saw even admitted to
who's he talking to? He was doing an interview somewhere
that like, yeah, I understand that. You know, at this
point in time in my career, like I come on
(23:10):
and off the field because I'm an older player. I
need my energy as a season goes on, like he's not,
and where she Rice is going to get suspended? I
guess did they sign Hollywood Brown? They drafted Worthy like
he's going to be depending on some kind of random
group of guys, Tony can't catch a cold. So I
think Mahomes is just a pure joy to watch. Yeah,
(23:32):
and this is what I said about Bryson. I was
texting with someone the other day, like, has anyone ever
made a better comeback? Right? From like villain to like
very beloved? And I think Kobe went from beloved to
kind of villain to beloved. Thus, obviously that was because
of everything that happened in Colorado and kind of the
way he acted in the mid two thousands. But what
(23:54):
makes for the most part, like the most fun players
of my life who have been great players are just
kind of universally liked because it's enjoyable to watch them play.
It's amazing if you just smile and look like you're
having fun, how far that will go for the dude
sitting on the couch for little kids like Brett Favre
(24:17):
in his heyday was the most fun to watch because
he was just out there. It looked like he was
playing backyard football. Now Mahomes has like combined the two.
But he's just a fun player to watch. He's an
enjoyable just athlete to consume. He's probably a little less
enjoyable this version of them because they're not as explosive
(24:37):
on offense. But like, I just like like Bryson was
a lot of fun the other day because he was
always smiling. And it's sometimes I think about that because
I can, I can be a little grouchy, I can
be a little negative. I just put a smile on
your face, just be a little happier and things get better.
So it's amazing how easy that trick is the older
you get. Went to the US Open Sunday was truly
(25:00):
an incredible tournament and one of the wildest experiences. Running
up to the eighteen two guys with radios heard Bryson
hit the bunker and everyone started running to seventeen, only
to hear the knocks, only to hear that he knocked
it in from three and a half feet. We all
dead stop, turned around and sprinted back to eighteen. The
reason they ran to seventeens because everyone assumed they were
(25:22):
gonna go to a playoff all time classic for sure,
luckily lucky enough to live in South Carolina and be
near the action. Yeah, I mean it's I've been to
a couple of golf tournaments, but I've never been to
a golf tournament on a Sunday, and I mean that's
probably one of the more historic moments. There is nothing
like being at a big moment in sports when everyone
(25:46):
kind of knows it's a big moment, whether it be
a tight playoff game, whether it be I've been to
World Series games, I've been to NBA Finals games, that
there's something special about being in the arena, right Obviously,
there's nothing like being the player in the arena, the pressure.
And I make my living now off watching games. People like,
(26:06):
why don't you go to more games? It's because I
can't really afford to, Like I got to see everything,
and if I can't go to a game on Sunday,
because I'll miss everything that else is going on. And
how am I supposed to talk to Colin record a
podcast when I haven't watched anything like that's I'm not
doing first take here where I don't watch half the
things and just you know, shout out like like I'm
(26:28):
really aggressive. That's not what I do. And I enjoy
watching the games. So I miss going to some big
events and that had to be pretty special. And I
would imagine a lot of people listening have just over
the course of your life you're a big sports fan,
have got an opportunity because you never know. That's the thing.
(26:48):
You have an idea. When you go to a playoff game,
an NFL playoff game, obviously you know what's on the line.
If you went to like a Final four National championship,
you know what's on the line. But even some regular
season games, some things can just turn into instant classics.
A record could be broken, you can just watch something
pretty special. And that's the great unknown about the reality
(27:09):
television that is sports. I know people said the football
is rigged. I maybe of the group that thinks that's
not true. But I would say one of my favorite
games I've ever been to in my entire life is
the last day of Candlestick and back of Candlestick, you
could walk on the field five minutes before the end
(27:31):
of the game if you had a media pass and
I got to go on the field. And this was
the forty nine ers Monday Night Football, John Gruden, Mike
Turrico against the Atlanta Falcons. Atlanta was having a horrendous season,
but they were beating the Niners, or maybe they were tied.
I can't exactly remember the score, but they were driving
(27:52):
to essentially win the game, and I'm on the field
standing next to Chris Berman. It was just like this
in the place is fully packed, Joe Montana, every famous
Niners at the house, Eddie de Bartolo's there, Boys and
Men's gonna play after the game. And Matt Ryan throws
a bass a little behind I think Roddy White lands
in Navarro Bowman's hands and navaral Bowman takes it seventy
(28:14):
five yards, jumps into the end zone for a touchdown,
and it clinched the Niners in the playoffs, and the
place went berserk. It was It was just one of
the coolest experiences of my life. From in terms of sports,
you just can't There's nothing like it you can get.
(28:35):
You can only get those highs watching sports on television
from gambling. I think for the mail bag, with Netflix
getting the rights for the NFL Christmas Slate, do we
expect a new commentary team to come in, who would
you like to see call these games? Or do you
(28:56):
think they will ultimately end up doing these games? Was
curious because Olsen's in limbo situation, second in line at
Fox and potentially securing a spot with Netflix. I don't
think Netflix if I had a guess, and I'm not
some like media reporter this way, I have no clue.
Greg Olsen, you wouldn't give up I know, he goes.
(29:18):
I mean, it sucks now. It's also understandable they signed
Tom Brady, is that he went from making ten million
dollars or three million dollars just because Tom Brady signed on.
But listen, I'm not gonna cry a river for a
guy making three million dollars coll on football games. Even
though Greg Olsen's really good and I enjoy him, but
he still get he gets a big slate every single week.
(29:40):
Now you don't get the number one slate, but you
still get really really good games as the number two
at Fox. But you wouldn't give up sixteen seventeen games
a year just for one Netflix game. And who knows,
maybe he can do both. And I get my guess
is gonna be that Netflix is going to outsource the
production to a Fox, a CBS, A a NBC someone
(30:07):
like that, and then use people to call the games.
I'm not unless you're terrible, I mean, god awful. It
doesn't really bother me much because honestly, most crews I
don't think are like that great, but also are that bad.
They're just kind of meh. It doesn't matter. I'm there
(30:28):
to watch the football game. I'm not looking to gain
an education from these guys. I've said it forever. I
would have loved and Drew Brees is like bitter that
he got fired. It's like, Drew, I have a ton
of respect for you as a player. Not everyone is
meant to have a mic in front of their mouth
and entertain like this is entertainment, and I just I
(30:49):
don't think you're really tailor made for that. I think
you should like run a team. I think you should
be like a team president or GM. If you don't
want to coach, you'd probably be an outstanding offensive coordinator.
But just because you're fa at playing football doesn't mean
that anyone wants to listen to you talk about football,
because maybe you're just not good at doing that. I mean,
Joe Montana, one of the best football players of all time,
(31:09):
was awful. A lot of guys have just been awful.
I think Philip Rivers would be really good. But I
hope they don't do this, But I do think this
is potential to happen. Is they try to do some
like famous non football people with football people. Maybe throw
(31:31):
in a comedian there, do something like that. I would
imagine anything's online now. I can imagine the NFL would
just want a normal crew. But I don't spend that
much time thinking about you know, who should do what?
You know? If you tell me it's McAfee and someone,
I just it won't bother me. Just do whoever, Just
(31:53):
throw on the game. Most people are gonna have it
tuned relatively down because of Christmas stuff. But my guess
would be is they use crews from other networks? Gruden?
Maybe Gruden gets back in the mix problem is hesue
in the league. If I was Netflix, I John Gruden.
(32:14):
A question for the mailbag, more of a coaching one
than a scouting one. How do skill position players know
when they have to get in and out of the
next play, especially in the pros where they don't use
signs to get plays in. I've played soccer and rugby
where you substitute one for one when play is dead.
How does that work in football? Especially the quarterback gets
(32:36):
the play from the OC well on the sideline you
are screaming the the you know, the formations or the
what's it called I'm blanking right now. The not the
position groups, but the U I can't think of the terminology,
(32:57):
but like three wide receivers, two wide receivers, there's one
running back, one tight end, two tight ends, two backs,
one wide receiver. Whatever that is, it is getting screamed
from the sideline. So you know what groups you're a
part of if you're a quote unquote role player. And
then there are times when you know a starter needs
(33:19):
a breather, right, you see that all the time, like
a guy busts a big run, or guy's just exhausted
and I'll kind of tap his chest like Christian McCaffrey
or Alvin Kamara are running back, like I just need
a breath. But I think with the signals, there are
still guys screaming the whatever the group that's supposed to
(33:40):
be in there on the sideline, and you're close enough
you can hear it, and you just come off. It's
not very complicated and you've been doing it so consistently,
like in college, obviously they are the signs, but in college,
most of the guys playing in the pros don't come
off the field that much. In pro football, you rotate
a lot. There's also a lot on a given week
(34:00):
schemed up, so you kind of have an idea like, hey,
this play I'm not a part of, but you'd already
be off the field. It's a relatively seamless transition. It's
why when you see a delay of game for substitution issues,
usually the head coach goes nuts because that should not
happen because you practice it so often now on the road.
(34:21):
In certain environments it is louder, right, So it is hard,
but I think these guys relatively are used to the
ebb and flow of looking at the sideline and kind
of knowing. I would say a well run team has
little to no issues with that. This question has been
(34:47):
on my mind for the past few weeks. I would
love to hear your insight. The quarterback talent that has
been drafted from seventeen to twenty four has ushered in
a new era of football and has replaced the legends
of the two thousands and the two tw tens, Yet
only one of them has won a Super Bowl over
the next ten years. Assuming Mahomes wins two on the
(35:07):
low end and four on the high end. If Mahomes
wins four on the high end, that's pretty nuts. Like,
I think it's fair to assume the Chiefs probably win
another one, but I'd set his over under at one
and a half. If he wins two more in his career,
(35:30):
he would pass Montana, and I think he'd be wildly
considered the Brady would have the best career ever. But
the people would be arguing he's the best quarterback ever.
But I think he would definitely solidify himself as the
number two quarterback of all time fly by demandings of
the world. I think, to avoid a cop out answer,
(35:50):
I am only going to give Mahomes three. Give him
Mahomes threes a lot. I mean that would be win
six super Bowls. I know he's already won three, but
think of the gap between Brady when he won his
three to the next super Bowl he won, right, he
won his third super Bowl two thousand and one, two
thousand and three, two thousand and four. Then they didn't
(36:14):
win another Super Bowl till what twenty fourteen or fifteen
because they lost in O seven of the Giants, they
lost in eleven of the Giants. That there was a
wide gap of Tom Brady down win a super Bowl.
And the difference is Belichick like he was going to
coach that whole time. Andy is what sixty five years old?
(36:36):
So if Mahomes plays another thirteen fourteen years, is he
going to be coaching those late seventies? That that that's
a variable. Here, here's where I tentatively landed on this.
Let me know your thoughts and what changes you would make.
So Mahomes three, two for Josh Allen, two for Jordan Love,
(36:57):
one for CJ. Stroud, one for Caleb Williams, one for
brock Perty. I could not go to for Jordan Love.
Could not do it because while he did show some
signs of being Aaron Rodgers, like Aaron Rodgers was Aaron
Rodgers and rattling off MVPs and beside Tom Brady was
(37:18):
probably the second best player of the twenty tens, he
did not get back to a super Bowl after he
won it. It is so difficult, it's so random, because
the other thing is you're gonna have some random guys
on really good teams beat you in the playoffs. I
would drop all these numbers. I would put Mahomes lower.
(37:41):
The Bills have the Bills ever won a Super Bowl?
The Packers have won two super Bowls in thirty five years,
and they've had Aaron Rodgers and Brett Farr Kayleb Williams.
I can't assume he's gonna win a super Bowl. Let's
see him make the playoffs. To me, Brock Party, you
could go one for Brock Purty might have to happen
(38:02):
this year while he's on the rookie contract and their
team's gonna be really good. Who knows what the team
will look like after that, Maybe they'll be in a
transitional period. I think it's hard to do this in
the NFL because, like, what if the Lions were to
win a Super Bowl this year? What if? Trying to
think of what if the Eagles were to win a
Super Bowl in the next couple of years, their team's
(38:23):
pretty stacked. What if Matt Stafford and the Rams, their
team's pretty good. I think it's impossible to play that game.
And I think whoever you think is gonna win Super
Bowls that always ends up winning less. There was a
time after Peyton Manning went his first Super Bol'd be like,
this guy's gonna win like three four Shitty barely won two.
(38:46):
The Jordan Love Thing. How many playoff games with Packers
won over the last like ten years and again I'm
I'm high on the Packers, but they couldn't win them
with Aaron. Now they're gonna win one with Jordan Love.
Vince Young won the Rookie of the Year in six
and left so much to be desired for the remainder
(39:06):
of his career. Is there any chance that c J.
Stroud has a similar fate? Is the hype too much?
Why is everyone in complete agreement that he will be
able to compete in the AFC for years to come.
If Burrow returns to what he was and Herbert takes
off this year, he wouldn't be a top five quarterback
in his own conference. Well, if I remember correctly, Vince
(39:31):
Young was kind of playing hero ball, scrambling around. Like
Vince Young, his whole game was not predicated on throwing
the ball. C J. Stroud dominated from the pocket. C J.
Stroud's skill is a sustainable skill. It was like, no way,
Stephan Clay can shoot this many three d's this consistently,
(39:53):
and then after three years like, oh yeah, they kind
of can. It's kind of what they do. If you
play well from within the pocket, you are a good player.
If you obviously have the arm and are accurate look
at Jared Goff. Jared Goff has the skills. If you
can protect him, he's gonna be a good quarterback. He
is an excellent pocket quarterback. Well. CJ. Stroud is more athletic,
(40:17):
has a little bit more potent arm, and he plays
in a dome. So I think it's fair to I'm
with you just to anoint him like part of being
Mahomes or Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson, Like can you
do this for five years, year in year out, every
single year, Like, yeah, I might win the MVP this year.
This is a big year for him. Plus, they were
(40:39):
not a target team last year. They were not treated
on a weekly basis like we're playing the Houston Texans.
They will be this year. So what's it like having
the target on your back? But his skill and everything
that I've heard about him as a guy, and you
just watch him talk, he clearly a high level, great guy.
People like him, hard worker, but like his skill transfers
(41:04):
long term. That's the thing with Sean Watson just you know,
a lot of I'll I never and listened to Sean
when he was young. Was awesome to watch, but it
was a lot of outside the pockets, scrambling around making
shit happen. That's kind of random, like it kind of
comes back in to equal out over time. It was
Russell Wilson's problem. He's not some great pocket quarterback, but
(41:26):
early on in his career, in his heyday, scramble around,
he would make these remarkable plays. But like what happens
when you're just like thirty four and you just have
to play from within the pocket? Can you play from
within the pocket? Right? Why does Zach Wilson suck? Can't
play from within the pocket? Why did the Niners get
rid of Trey Lance? Didn't think he had any pocket presents?
(41:47):
CJ does. And when you have that skill and then
you're accurate and you have a good arm, like your
floor is really high. Now does that mean you're ever
gonna be the second best quarterback? And we got a
lot to learn. But I would be stunned if he's
not a really good player now, like where he ranks.
I want to see if he keeps playing like he
(42:08):
did last year, he's gonna rank pretty high. Hey man,
love the pod, but your take about Lamar has been
horribly wrong. He was at the first two days of
OTAs mixed the next two days and there the last
two days. Not sure how you got the misconception he
didn't show up at all. I let it slide the
first time, but when you preed it today when talking
(42:30):
about Rogers, he missed all of OTAs and showed up
to the mandatory mini camp. It's been well reported. I
don't care. It doesn't bother me. But when you're Lamar Jackson,
you show up to everything. You know why Patrick Mahomes did,
Josh Allen did, every quarterback worths assault? Does Aaron Rodgers
(42:51):
forty years old doing drugs somewhere whatever? I don't care,
But like Lamar, you're chasing Patrick. If Patricks said practice,
you should be a practice fifty million dollars a year,
how's this debatable? Like? How could anyone go, yeah, this
is a little weird. What's he doing? Why is he
not in practice? I'll tell you who was mad. It
doesn't bother me. I'm not a fucking Ravens fan. You
(43:13):
guys screwed me when I pick five thousand dollars on
you win the AFC Championship Game and you shit down
your leg. One of the most embarrassing performances I've ever seen.
Biggest waste of money I've ever had. I can't believe
I bet against Andy and Mahomes with Todd Monkin and
Lamar Jackson skipping balls into the ground. I was the
guy that believed. I was finally a believer. I was like, Okay,
this team. I thought Ravens are gonna win super Bowl.
(43:35):
And you don't win the super Bowl and then you're
skipping practice when Patrick Mahomes is a practice. Come on, man, like,
that's just it's a bad look. Pay fifty plus million
dollars a year every time we have an event. You
should be there, period, point blank. In the story. What
are we talking about. I'm not a journalist. This is
it's not about facts, right, It's been well reported. He
(43:56):
was nowhere to be found. Showed up at the end
when you literally have to because you get fined. I
don't BLAMEI. I wouldn't want to get fined. He got
fined seven hundred you know, seven hundred and fifty thousand
dollars work cow bonus. He didn't get why because he
wasn't a practice And I defended him like it's not
very much money to him relative to how much he makes.
Though I wouldn't be in the business again in seven
(44:16):
hundred and fifty K round. But like there's no defending
Lamar Jackson. Not showing up there just isn't like unless
someone's sick or ill. But if you're just not showing
up because you don't want to be there, like is
Patrick Mahomes. There's Patrick Mahomes at practice because that's what
That's how I'd be looking. And I'm chasing what's Tiger
Wood's doing. He's in balls. I better be hitting balls.
(44:36):
Michael Jordan's in the gym, Lebron's Stephan was in the gym.
I better be in the gym, not by myself with
my team when my team's practicing. God that performs in
the in the playoff game was all time embarrassment. It
really was question for the bag given the modern landscape
(44:57):
of the league end game. In a hypothetical fifty three
round fantasy draft, quarterbacks would fly off the board to start.
My question is how many you think would come off
the board before taking a non quarterback. I think I
got this question by someone before. I think the numbers
a little smaller. I think the last time I got
the question, someone wrote twenty quarterbacks I don't think it
(45:20):
would be twenty quarterbacks. I think when we got to
about ten, let's do it right now. Mahomes, Alan Lamar Herbert,
for sure, it's crazy, it's gonna sound Kayleb Williams would
go c J. Stroud, that's seven, Jalen Hurts like the
(45:45):
Dak Cousins, Purty Goff. You know, all that stuff's debatable.
Am I missing any Burrow? But you'd get pretty quick
into like, wait, you're not gonna draft Michael Parsons, You're
gonna draft Kirk Cousins over Nick Bosa. And I probably
(46:05):
I'm doing off the cuff, probably left out a couple guys.
I think the number somewhere between ten to twelve, ten
to twelve. If Kyle Shanahan was drafting, party would go
I Goff? I mean, would you take Goff? This is
a good example, Goff, who I'd now put above Dak
and above Kirk Cousins because I see a guy playing
well in the playoffs. Would you take Golf if you
(46:29):
needed to start a team from scratch and you weren't
gonna if you had the tenth pick and you weren't
drafting again until whatever forty or whatever, forty two. You
do the math, you're taking golf or Michael Parsons. You
could argue, just take GoF you got a good quarterback.
I don't know if wide receivers, like I'm taking lineman
(46:51):
before I'm taking wide receivers. There's so many wide receivers
in the league. It's go, okay, you took you know,
Ceedee Lamb in the first round, I'll take. I'm and
Ross Saint Brown in the third or something. You know,
I would take the pass rushers, the tackles I'd take,
I would probably go depending on where I drafted quarterback
(47:11):
O line D line in the first couple rounds. With
the new kickoff rule in place, do you think the
kicker position as we know it is a thing of
the past. Kickers are going to be involved in a
whole lot of tackles, which leads me to believe we'll
see an evolution of the kicker to a more physical
body type than the scrawny soccer player we've become accustomed to. Well,
(47:36):
the problem is you still need your kicker to make
field goals. So do you want Justin Tucker making open
field tackles? Of course not, But like, are you finding
ray Lewis with Justin Tucker's leg Like. Part of the
thing is what they do is pretty difficult. Has anyone
ever just screwed around and had someone hold the ball
(47:57):
and it just attempt to kick like a fifteen yard
fieldal I mean, these guys are doing it with a
pass rush, working the ball phage draws high low. I
think it kind of is what it is now. If
you can find a former tight end or a safety
that's now the kicker. Yeah, but there's a big difference
(48:21):
in Justin Reid kicking the ball off as he did
for the Chiefs and booming it through the end zone.
Then like, would the Chiefs trust him in the second
half of a tie game to kick a field goal?
I would doubt it. Obviously he's not better than Butt
Kerr's kicking field goals, but most of the field goal
kickers they might miss, But what they do you feel
(48:44):
pretty good about. Right the handful of the top ten
twelve guys in the league, you would never replace that
just because a guy. It's gonna be an issue because
those guys are gonna be put in space and they're screwed.
But you could argue a lot of players if they're
in a one on one position where a kicker usually is.
Unless you're Ed Reid or Troy Paulton, mal you're not
(49:07):
gonna make that tackle. You're just at a huge disadvantage.
Guys running full speed, you're back pedaling. You could argue
it doesn't matter if guys get to your kicker, and
I would say this in the old kickoff back when
more people used to return, and where we're at now,
I just don't. I just think you kind of acknowledge it.
(49:28):
If you get there, you're kind of screwed because that
guy doesn't exist. And what they do is is just
so hard. It's really hard to kick field goals. There's
a ton of pressure. It's really closer to like golf
or hitting where you just there's just time to think
about it. It's just hard. A huge fan of the putt,
(49:53):
I think you're undervaluing a Yuke's impact on the Niners offense. Yes,
of course CMC is the most important skill player, but
Kyle has never had more downfield attempts than he has
with Purdy and Ayuk. I understand that your point is
Ayuk is never gonna have as many catches as Amenro,
but his impact with the ones he does haul in
(50:14):
are more valuable. Ayuk averages seventeen to nine a catch,
meaning he would only have to catch ten more balls
to pass Saint Brown's yardage for twenty twenty three. Maybe
one hundred balls may be too many, but isn't entirely
possible that he catches eighty five to ninety as he
continues to build on the work he's put in with
(50:36):
Purty not a huge advanced stats guy, but Perdi's average
the most air yards per attempt this past season, meaning
he is pushing the ball pass the line more than
any other quarterback. I believe Ayuk is a huge reason
for this. Doesn't having Ayuk's medium to down the field
ability to open things up for CMC in the box,
(50:58):
his overall yak monster no numbers on the team, and
they're new over the middle slot weapon in Persoll. I
think Persall is going to be an outside the weapon.
My man. I don't disagree with you that Ayuk's a
really good player and his value is really really high,
like he's a high end, starting, winning player. But does
(51:19):
Kyle think that he can replace that with someone else?
Because where it gets complicated is like you said, his
impact being threatened down the field matters, But can I
find someone else to do that for a quarter of
the price. Where this becomes a complicated conversation is he's
laughing at twenty six million dollars, he wants thirty million dollars. Well,
(51:44):
part of my offense, Like, can I find someone in
a draft in the second round that can ultimately do that?
Can I sign some random free agent for ten million
dollars that can bring me eighty percent of his value
for or twenty percent of the costs, and then my
team's better on defense. That's where this puzzle gets put together.
(52:07):
In a perfect world, the Niners would get rid of
you know, obviously for the next five years. They would
rather have Brandon Ayuke than Deebo Samuel moving forward. But
it's a complicated situation because of the money. I'm not
anti Brandon Nyuk. I just look at the way Kyle
plays and goes they have. You have to understand too,
(52:28):
they have other question marks moving forward. Trent Williams, one
of the best players in the league, is thirty five
years old, So how are you gonna get another tackle?
You're either gonna trade multiple picks to get move up
in a draft and try to get a guy in
the top twenty. Maybe if a guy becomes available, you
trade a first round pick and you break them off
(52:49):
with a huge contract. You know, you, Charvarius Ward, is
he gonna be on the team forever? You gonna have
to buy a corner you just your team becomes party
is about to get We just saw what Trevor Lawrence
gott Perty's gonna get that or not? If not more,
it becomes a puzzle of putting money together. It's why
(53:09):
the forty nine ers haven't just handed him this contract.
If I was a betting man, they probably end up
paying him. But I do think these conversations have been
long and hard because I, like you said, his value
to the team, he just watched them play. He's a
very valuable player. But is he an irreplaceable player? We're
(53:31):
gonna find out here in the next couple months, because
if the forty nine ers don't extend him and make
him play on the contract, then he's they view him
as a replaceable player. They end up giving him thirty
million dollars a year, then they don't view it that way.
I do think he's not He's never gonna be a
(53:51):
top five wide receiver in the league and paying premiums
for god Like, I have no problem giving Nick Bose
a historic deal. He's one of the best pass ferson
in the league, one of the highest paid linebackers, best
linebacker in the league. When they broke off Kittle, he
was one of the best tight ends in the league.
It's really good. And like you said, he's good with
the act, he's he's just a really good player. And
(54:11):
again I'm not saying Saint Brown, like, if you could
just have a draft, who would you rather have. I
like both players, but it's easier to justify when I
throw one guy one hundred and twenty passes, the large
percentage of my targets goes through him, and not a
large percentage of my targets go through this guy. When
I run the ball a lot, and like you said,
you need receivers to move the defense around. But personnel
(54:37):
groupings was the word I was looking for earlier. You know,
summer brains a little foggy, drank a little too much
last weekend. But yeah, I mean, I don't I'm not
necessarily disagreeing with what you're saying, but I find these
things very complicated when you're talking about paying premium amounts
of money for guys like can we do better? And listen,
(54:59):
can you do better? There's no guarantee you can't, and
then you find yourself where you have a hole at
that position. But I understand the complicated nature, Like Nick
Bosa wasn't complicated. It's basically how much you were we
gonna end up giving them. Christian McCaffrey wanted to raise
gotta do it. If Trent Williams goes I need a race,
gotta do it. When I use says I want thirty
(55:22):
plus million dollars a year, you don't just write that
check right away. You have long, hard conversations. They literally
just draft a wide receiver in the first round. Here's
the other thing, like Kittle's been banged up a lot.
Now they're gonna need a new tight end. So you
just have a lot of needs and you don't have
unlimited draft picks. And when you're good, you're drafted at
the end of the first round, so it's not like
you're getting Julio Jones every year. I just think these
(55:46):
conversations are very, very different. This is a difficult conversation
to have. I understand both sides. This isn't justin Jefferson
where it's like, yeah, it is what it is ceed
lamb aj Brown to the Eagles, this is like, God,
this guy's really good and we love the player and
he stands for everything we do and that's why, ultimately
probably why they end up eating it. But I would understand, like, hey,
(56:08):
you want thirty, we want twenty six. We'll give you
twenty seven and a half, but we're not budgeting off
that number. Like not every negotiation is like well, blank check,
you sign it. Steph Curry, you tell me, Aaron Judge,
tell me the number. Otani, how much is it gonna cost?
That ain't this? That ain't this. And that's why I
(56:28):
think it's so emotional because I U sees all these
other guys because of the position, and his team is
not like kissing his feet even though they like him.
This is just these are tough conversations because of the
numbers we're talking about, they're really large, even with the
cap going up. It's Brandon ayuk Worth. It is a
(56:52):
is a legitimate conversation, no matter what side of the
argument or where you stand. So I'm not I'm not
a proponent of trading him. But if you told me
they wanted to play this year out, Like, I don't
think that's that crazy either. I really don't, And I'd
understand it from his side, like fuck you guys, give
him my money, like I get every Like this is
(57:14):
a very easy kind of situation to understand, all the sides.
I know my guy earlier thinks I'm a Lamar Jackson hater,
like the Ravens, like, what are you gonna do? When
they were going back and forth Lamar like, you don't
have a choice. You're gonna pay this guy an ungodly
amount of money, and that's what ultimately ended up happening.
(57:34):
You can see the different scenarios here. That's that's where
I stand on this. Like if I had to bet
he's gonna be on the Niners, if you had to
bet if a new contract, ultimately give him a new contract,
do I think, Yeah, we don't agree on a number.
We want you to play on the fifteen million dollar
fourteen and a half or whatever the number is. I
can see that trade harder to see because you'd be
(57:57):
trading him for a draft pick who does not help
you now. But been following this league and sports long
enough that you never say never. So I think at
this point in time, until the deal's done, you have
to acknowledge everything's on the table. And one guy who,
you know, some internet fans get mad at is Mike Silver, Like,
I don't know. Mike Silver's don the Shanahans for thirty
(58:18):
plus years, so when he reports on this stuff, he's
kind of been right. So there's a little bit of
an impass, Like there's a number of the team thinks
there's a number, he thinks it's bridgeable, doesn't mean it's
gonna happen. The volume
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Speaker 1 (01:48):
What is going on? Everybody? John Middlecop three and out
podcast recording This bad Boy on a Tuesday afternoon. You
probably listen on a Wednesday. Here's the game plan. I
wanted to hit on a couple things. NFL Comeback Player
of the Year changes its parameters, Peyton Manning passing a
camp Shador Sanders, no show, rumors of Rogers it turns
(02:12):
out might be on ayahuasca instead of being a practice,
which I think is just hilarious. And then we'll do
a big mail bag at John middlecoff is the Instagram
firing those dms get your question answered on the show
very easy. So we will be a mailbag heavy podcast
for sure. This is gonna be my last podcast of
the week. I'm gonna go on with Colin on Thursday night,
(02:35):
so that'll be out Friday. I'm sure talking some football.
You know, he loves talking Rogers and Little Ayahuasca, so
we will discuss that as well, and we'll have podcasts
next week and then no podcast on the week of
July fourth because I'll probably be drinking and be hanging
out as many of you will too. I think July
(02:57):
fourth on a Thursday or something kind of weird week
whenever the holidays in the middle of the week, not
a Friday or Monday. But uh, that's the that's the
game plan as of right now. So make sure you
subscribe to the podcast three and Out wherever you may listen.
If you're on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe to
three and Out feed. We also got a YouTube channel.
We put everything up there. Anything I do goes up
(03:20):
on the YouTube channel, so make sure you subscribe to
that if you like the video versions. And other than that,
I don't really have much else to say Beside me,
I'm gonna go for a walk right now after I
record the podcast, but hopefully everyone's having a good day
and let's rock and roll. But first, you know, I
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(03:41):
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(04:05):
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headline I saw today that I thought, this is so dumb.
Joe Flacco won the Comeback Player of the Year in
(04:48):
twenty twenty four, rightfully so. And I know DeMar Hamlin
escaped death and it was remarkable that he was able
to come back, but he didn't really play. Joe Flacco
became the starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns when Watson's
shoulder didn't work anymore. He wasn't on the team, he
(05:10):
wasn't the backup. He wasn't even in the league, as
he had said, I was taking naps and taking my
kids to school. I was waiting for my children in
the carpooling. Now, the league or maybe the AP, whoever
controls this award, has changed the parameters on how to
(05:31):
win it. Now. Listen, if you have a major injury
and you come back and have a great season, no
one ever argued that is an incredible accomplishment and you
should win the Comeback Player of the Year. That's awesome.
But now that is the only way to win the award.
To have an injury or to have something happen to
(05:52):
you physically that you overcome and come back and perform.
I'm sorry, you can be the comeback Player of the
Year if you're literally not playing football. The other thing
with Joe Flacco is he had been objectively awful for
several years. And I know the playoff game did not
go well, they got their butt kicked against the Houston Texans.
(06:16):
But what Joe Flacco did last year was freaking amazing.
It was easily one of the best stories of the year.
And when stuff like that happens, when a guy who
has been a good player or a famous player either
washes out of the league or is just kind of
irrelevant for a couple of years and come back and
has either a Pro Bowl like season or does something
(06:38):
like Flacco does, they should be up for the award.
I don't think we need to overthink this just because
you shatter your leg and come back. You shouldn't have
the market cornered on the ability to vote for other people.
And I just think this is stupid and this is classic,
Like what are we doing here? Did anyone argue about
(07:00):
Joe Flacco's story last year? Weren't we all amazed by
what was going on. He literally saved the franchise. They
were in major trouble. I mean, they had problems when
Watson went down. The guy came off the couch to
lead them to eleven wins and the playoffs. If that's
not a comeback story, I don't know what is. I
(07:23):
saw this headline today. The Manning Academy is going to
go on in the next couple days, maybe this weekend
or next week, and every top college quarterback is going.
Carson Beck, Quinn Yours. You just go around all the guys,
Jalen Milroe, everyone who's someone in college football attends the event,
(07:43):
just like they always have. Right, all the top prospects
go to the Manning Academy. Hell, Johnny Manziel once got
kicked out of it. If there's one name missing, Shoudre Sanders.
Now I don't have the report, doesn't have the reasoning
why he's not attending. I just know this Colorado thing
has gotten a little weird. I mean, with Dion and
(08:05):
Schador talking a bunch of shit to a player who
had to transfer. He is going to be one of
the more fascinating evals coming into the year, just because
there's a lot of noise. There's obviously a lot of talent,
but the team is terrible. There's some pressure. Now you
move conferences, which is a much easier conference in theory.
(08:26):
Is the team any good? I don't know. Are they
gonna make a Bowl game? Having a long time I'm
just telling you, this thing's this thing's got potential to
get weird. And I know through the first couple games
last year and I thought this too. I'm like, this
guy's gonna be the number one overall pick. That this
happens a lot. I mean, we once did it with
Josh Rosen. He ended up going ten. I'm not acting
(08:49):
like this guy's not gonna get drafted high. I just
know if you're a scout, if you're a front office,
you're gonna have to do a lot of work in
this situation. Listen, I'm not acting like it's the end
of the world. He's not going to the matting Academy.
Is a little weird. Is a little weird, Like I'm sorry,
little bizarre. Literally everyone always goes Austin Eckler, who is
(09:13):
one of the better quote unquote scatbacks in the league.
Taylor made for modern day football you can catch the ball.
Pretty good running back, but really good out of the backfield,
very productive player. Said. The reason he's not still in
the Chargers is because Jim Harbaugh and that offense wants
a guy to carry the ball three hundred times a year,
(09:35):
which I got news for you. Most guys don't even
sniff two hundred and fifty carries anymore. Austin, The reason
you're not on the Chargers anymore is because you're not
a fit. Jim Harbaugh doesn't use guys like you. Jim
Harbaugh likes guys that can run the ball between the tackles.
It's what he yearns for, going back to the forty
(09:57):
nine Ers, his favorite player of all time, Frank Gore
to the guy that he has dominated with the last
couple of years, Blake Korum. He wants an every down back.
You're not that guy. They might have lied to your
face say they want a guy that could carry the
ball three hundred times a year. They just don't want
you as a player, and there's nothing wrong with that.
When new coaches come in, schemes change ideas, change with
(10:19):
how they want players. Austin Eckler is a really good player.
If depending on my coach. I would want him on
my team. But when you say Jim Harbaugh, I don't
think Austin Eckler like welcome to the business. Rumors are
flying that Aaron Rodgers and I said this last week,
and I'll continue to say, I don't think it's a
(10:40):
big deal that in terms of football that he missed
the mini camp. I think it has zero impact on
the actual team come Monday night football against the forty
nine ers Week one, I think it has zero impact.
Where it does have an impact is because of the
market they're in New York, because of the NFL. It's
(11:01):
and obviously him, you could argue now is definitely the
most polarizing player in the NFL, their coach who feels
a little over his head, and all these stories become
beer stories. But the rumor is that he went a
long way away to do Ayahuasca. I don't really have
anything to say besides that's kind of hilarious, like this
(11:23):
is the ultimate on brand move. I guess I would
if I was Robert Sala or Joe Douglas. I don't
think it would be crazy to push back, like, couldn't
we just do it? Three days later? And just avoid
all the hoopla. But he's like, Hey, we got an
ayahuasca convention in fucking Japan or China or in you know,
(11:44):
some mountains somewhere in India. I gotta be there, bro,
or I don't know. Do you eat the leaves? Again,
I'm not anti. I'm not anti drugs, not a drug user,
but definitely not. I haven't done ayahuasca. I'm not too
proud or definitely too proved food or too big of
a stiff to ever try. It seems like it's not
really for me. But right circumstances, you never know. I
(12:08):
do think if you just say it out loud, he
missed mandatory minicamp to do ayahuasca. Like, I get the pushback,
I get people going, are you serious. It's like one thing, Hey,
brother's wedding. Hey, my wife's having a baby. Hey my
grandpa is sick, Like there are a lot of Hey
(12:29):
I have this trip planned with my wife's family. There's
no way to get out even that, Like you're doing ayahuasca,
like you have the whole summer to eat these leaves
or snort this dust or whatever the hell it actually is.
And again, I'm not some you know, big Jay who
doesn't like I get it. I have friends that have
(12:50):
done it. I understand the potential positive impact. I guess
it has on your mental space, which is big for Aaron.
But when you do just say I heard Nick right,
He's like, just say it out loud. He missed practice
to do drugs. Like it is. It is kind of funny,
Like some stories are just kind of funny. Belichick dating
(13:12):
a twenty four year old. They bonded over philosophy. He's
helped her with her homework, he goes to her cheerleading competitions.
There's no way that you don't just smile when you
talk about Bill Belichick and his twenty four year old girlfriend.
I kind of think this is in the same vein
Aaron Rodgers left practice to do ayahuasca again, don't have
(13:37):
that set in stone, don't have that second source just
seeing it flying on the internet do. I just find
it funny. A lot of players in the UH this
is one thing as a pro scout in the NFL,
you are tabbed with following the CFL, and we've had
(13:58):
a lot of different leagues over the year, XFL, the UFL,
what's going on now, the AFL, the USFL, whatever league
is going on domestically or in Canada where guys that
played college football and maybe played a training camp or
were on a practice squad, it's on you to follow that.
So you are watching that tape and evaluating. Now it
(14:21):
can be relatively it's not like you're just evaluating every player.
You're following guys that are productive, that had college grades,
you know, draftable grades coming out, maybe guys that have
played in the NFL. So you can whittle down the
list pretty easily. But you do got to keep taps
because when so and so from the Birmingham Defenders and
(14:45):
you're working for the Eagles signs with the Cowboys, it's like, hey,
were we on this guy? Were we interested in this human?
And I have seen six or seven players sign with
various teams, and that's all because of the Pro scouts.
And they get no love, like college scouts get a
lot more credit just in terms with the casual fan
(15:05):
because they're going into schools. They're writing the reports. Hey
I love this guy, I didn't like this guy. The
Pro scouts is a pretty thankless job. You just sit
in the office all day, you watch practice squad players.
You basically write up every team, and you watch these
leagues that no one is watching beside actually like a
million people. I think they're actually doing relatively well in
(15:27):
terms for what they are. But you do get a
lot of credit if you sign one of these guys.
And I'll never forget. I had one of my tasks
my first year in the league was to keep an
eye on this league that went under after one year
in this safety from the Sacramento Mountain Lions, I think
they were called Andrew Sendejo. I was like, God, this
(15:49):
guy's pretty good player, plays the ball, hits people. And
I went to my guy, Lewis Ridick, who was our
pro director at the time. I said, Andrew, we should
take a look at this guy. You know, ten years
later he has a long NFL career. No one listened
to me, but hey, it is what it is. So props,
do all the pro scouts out there in the NFL
(16:11):
grinding on USFL tape because I'll promise you this, you
get a lot of internal credit from your GM, from
your head coach and your owner if that guy were
to make the team. Hell, it's an enormous win. If
a guy you signed from a league like that, makes
your practice squad, so you never know. That's a great
part about football. You have a lot of undrafted free agents.
(16:33):
Random guys make teams all the time. So this guy
is probably a little harder because you've been playing football,
you know, during the spring, so you better come into
training camp. You're a little behind. You don't know the playbook.
All the rookies and the younger players have been practicing
and working out with the team, so you're at a disadvantage.
But football's crazy. You never know. Okay, let's dive into
(17:03):
a little thing we call the mailbag where we interact
with the people. It's very easy to get involved. You
just go to my Instagram account at my name John
middlecoff two f's. Most of my former employers could never
get that right. They only put one F. So middle
cough and you fire in a question and you get
it answered. Here on the show, I saw a picture recently,
(17:26):
within the last couple of days going viral of Landon Donovan.
He obviously had a receding hairline when he was playing,
and he hasn't been playing for a while, and he
must have got hair plugs that went wrong, because geez,
Louisa looks terrible. He's got like hanging head from the
or hanging hair from the side of his ear. It's
(17:46):
a bad look. And I don't have hair plugs. I'm
a bald man. Not opposed to coming back. But did
hear that they do remove I know I had a
friend that got him and honestly probably needs to redo
him now. But they put out of the back of
your head. And as Joe Buck wants, it's very painful.
It is not a pleasant experience. But if it goes right,
(18:07):
you look like Tom Brady look fantastic. Okay, let's go
uh let's start with white, huge cheese fan. Here, I
was rewatching the miked up from last year's Super Bowl.
You have. The best part about rooting for sweet teams
is like whenever you're bored, you're like, I'll just YouTube
some sweet content from my squad, and it's it's always fun.
(18:29):
That's the best when you're a loser, like when you
root for a awful team, which at some point in
time you all go through the off season when you're
bored that you just it's it's tough reading articles like hey,
we got this fourth rounder and camped it looks like
a Steal's like, yeah, I'll believe it when I see it.
But when you're just sweet on top of the mountain,
(18:51):
you just can never over consume. You're like, yeah, I
watch the micd up segment for the seventeenth time Mahomes
calls out to Rice be ready for the ball before
he's even relayed the play to the rest of the
offense in the huddle. How many quarterbacks in the league
have a good idea who will be open on a
(19:11):
specific play before they even break the huddle. Also, how
many quarterbacks all time, I would say the EBB and
flow like in that situation, it's probably a short list.
I think good quarterbacks throughout the week when and you
have a good offensive coordinator, and you've scheme plays, and
(19:31):
you have a pretty good idea this is gonna be
if they're in the coverage, this is gonna be. This
is gonna work. Right, So any good quarterbacks slash good
offensive coordinator. The communication is when we call this play
because you've schemed it up during practice. This is a touchdown.
This is an explosive play. But I think what you've
(19:52):
really seen out of Mahomes is obviously to become really
famous and a fun player. I mean nothing like winning
super Bowls. What like individual games as a quarterback are
sweet plays, right, And for a quarterback like Mahomes or
Josh Allen or Justin Herbert, it's like the sixty yard
bomb on a rope. I mean, Rogers did it forever, right.
(20:13):
I mean when I think Rogers' best play of all time,
I mean best play of all time. It might be
that Arizona Cardinal playoff game. I think it was like
the wild card game where he ended up hitting to
hail Mary, but he scrambled in the end zone and
hit a crazy play down the field. Like when you
can do stuff like that, it's like holy shit. But
(20:37):
what makes a great player is like doing some basic
things well, understanding when they blitz where I have to
throw it to immediately when I hit the check down,
do I hit the guy in stride or does he
have to stop? And is it the difference between an
eight yard gain on third and seven for a first
down or like a three yard I'm tackled because I
(20:59):
had to stop the line can make the play. I
don't want to say he's mastered the position because I
still think that probably takes some time. But relative to
his experience. I don't think you can be any better
because physically he has all the trades to do all
the special stuff. And then when you master the mind
game of playing quarterback. I mean that's why. I mean
(21:20):
the two best quarterbacks of my lifetime, Peyton Manning and
Tom Brady, and they had to because they didn't have
the physical skills of Aaron Rodgers. They mastered the game mentally,
so when physically they could match up with the mental game,
they were an unstoppable player. And Tom's the best version
of that. And I think Mahomes has become much closer
(21:44):
to like Peyton and Tom in terms of I can
just control a game that we have to win seventeen
to fourteen. Obviously, when those guys have weapons, they can
score thirty five to forty points no problem on basically
ninety percent of the league, and then against the best defenses,
find a way to score or twenty four to twenty
eight points. But like what happens in that moment when
(22:06):
you and Andy are on the same page, when you
know the defensive looks, when you've mastered the coverages that
they run. Obviously, with the Super Bowl, you have multiple
weeks to study the team. I guess they played the
forty nine ers last year. I think they play again
this year. They killed the Niners two years ago is
right after they traded for McCaffrey. But I mean in
(22:29):
the two playoff games. I would say his first Super
Bowl against the Niners. He's most famously known for the
lot play to Tyreek Hill, which was just an awesome play.
This Super Bowl and really this playoff run, especially the
last two games the Ravens and the Niners were about
mastering the mental game, and that's what makes just all
(22:50):
time greats. And that's what he is at this point
because he was dealing with his best receiver was a
rookie in Travis who I I saw even admitted to
who's he talking to? He was doing an interview somewhere
that like, yeah, I understand that. You know, at this
point in time in my career, like I come on
(23:10):
and off the field because I'm an older player. I
need my energy as a season goes on, like he's not,
and where she Rice is going to get suspended? I
guess did they sign Hollywood Brown? They drafted Worthy like
he's going to be depending on some kind of random
group of guys, Tony can't catch a cold. So I
think Mahomes is just a pure joy to watch. Yeah,
(23:32):
and this is what I said about Bryson. I was
texting with someone the other day, like, has anyone ever
made a better comeback? Right? From like villain to like
very beloved? And I think Kobe went from beloved to
kind of villain to beloved. Thus, obviously that was because
of everything that happened in Colorado and kind of the
way he acted in the mid two thousands. But what
(23:54):
makes for the most part, like the most fun players
of my life who have been great players are just
kind of universally liked because it's enjoyable to watch them play.
It's amazing if you just smile and look like you're
having fun, how far that will go for the dude
sitting on the couch for little kids like Brett Favre
(24:17):
in his heyday was the most fun to watch because
he was just out there. It looked like he was
playing backyard football. Now Mahomes has like combined the two.
But he's just a fun player to watch. He's an
enjoyable just athlete to consume. He's probably a little less
enjoyable this version of them because they're not as explosive
(24:37):
on offense. But like, I just like like Bryson was
a lot of fun the other day because he was
always smiling. And it's sometimes I think about that because
I can, I can be a little grouchy, I can
be a little negative. I just put a smile on
your face, just be a little happier and things get better.
So it's amazing how easy that trick is the older
you get. Went to the US Open Sunday was truly
(25:00):
an incredible tournament and one of the wildest experiences. Running
up to the eighteen two guys with radios heard Bryson
hit the bunker and everyone started running to seventeen, only
to hear the knocks, only to hear that he knocked
it in from three and a half feet. We all
dead stop, turned around and sprinted back to eighteen. The
reason they ran to seventeens because everyone assumed they were
(25:22):
gonna go to a playoff all time classic for sure,
luckily lucky enough to live in South Carolina and be
near the action. Yeah, I mean it's I've been to
a couple of golf tournaments, but I've never been to
a golf tournament on a Sunday, and I mean that's
probably one of the more historic moments. There is nothing
like being at a big moment in sports when everyone
(25:46):
kind of knows it's a big moment, whether it be
a tight playoff game, whether it be I've been to
World Series games, I've been to NBA Finals games, that
there's something special about being in the arena, right Obviously,
there's nothing like being the player in the arena, the pressure.
And I make my living now off watching games. People like,
(26:06):
why don't you go to more games? It's because I
can't really afford to, Like I got to see everything,
and if I can't go to a game on Sunday,
because I'll miss everything that else is going on. And
how am I supposed to talk to Colin record a
podcast when I haven't watched anything like that's I'm not
doing first take here where I don't watch half the
things and just you know, shout out like like I'm
(26:28):
really aggressive. That's not what I do. And I enjoy
watching the games. So I miss going to some big
events and that had to be pretty special. And I
would imagine a lot of people listening have just over
the course of your life you're a big sports fan,
have got an opportunity because you never know. That's the thing.
(26:48):
You have an idea. When you go to a playoff game,
an NFL playoff game, obviously you know what's on the line.
If you went to like a Final four National championship,
you know what's on the line. But even some regular
season games, some things can just turn into instant classics.
A record could be broken, you can just watch something
pretty special. And that's the great unknown about the reality
(27:09):
television that is sports. I know people said the football
is rigged. I maybe of the group that thinks that's
not true. But I would say one of my favorite
games I've ever been to in my entire life is
the last day of Candlestick and back of Candlestick, you
could walk on the field five minutes before the end
(27:31):
of the game if you had a media pass and
I got to go on the field. And this was
the forty nine ers Monday Night Football, John Gruden, Mike
Turrico against the Atlanta Falcons. Atlanta was having a horrendous season,
but they were beating the Niners, or maybe they were tied.
I can't exactly remember the score, but they were driving
(27:52):
to essentially win the game, and I'm on the field
standing next to Chris Berman. It was just like this
in the place is fully packed, Joe Montana, every famous
Niners at the house, Eddie de Bartolo's there, Boys and
Men's gonna play after the game. And Matt Ryan throws
a bass a little behind I think Roddy White lands
in Navarro Bowman's hands and navaral Bowman takes it seventy
(28:14):
five yards, jumps into the end zone for a touchdown,
and it clinched the Niners in the playoffs, and the
place went berserk. It was It was just one of
the coolest experiences of my life. From in terms of sports,
you just can't There's nothing like it you can get.
(28:35):
You can only get those highs watching sports on television
from gambling. I think for the mail bag, with Netflix
getting the rights for the NFL Christmas Slate, do we
expect a new commentary team to come in, who would
you like to see call these games? Or do you
(28:56):
think they will ultimately end up doing these games? Was
curious because Olsen's in limbo situation, second in line at
Fox and potentially securing a spot with Netflix. I don't
think Netflix if I had a guess, and I'm not
some like media reporter this way, I have no clue.
Greg Olsen, you wouldn't give up I know, he goes.
(29:18):
I mean, it sucks now. It's also understandable they signed
Tom Brady, is that he went from making ten million
dollars or three million dollars just because Tom Brady signed on.
But listen, I'm not gonna cry a river for a
guy making three million dollars coll on football games. Even
though Greg Olsen's really good and I enjoy him, but
he still get he gets a big slate every single week.
(29:40):
Now you don't get the number one slate, but you
still get really really good games as the number two
at Fox. But you wouldn't give up sixteen seventeen games
a year just for one Netflix game. And who knows,
maybe he can do both. And I get my guess
is gonna be that Netflix is going to outsource the
production to a Fox, a CBS, A a NBC someone
(30:07):
like that, and then use people to call the games.
I'm not unless you're terrible, I mean, god awful. It
doesn't really bother me much because honestly, most crews I
don't think are like that great, but also are that bad.
They're just kind of meh. It doesn't matter. I'm there
(30:28):
to watch the football game. I'm not looking to gain
an education from these guys. I've said it forever. I
would have loved and Drew Brees is like bitter that
he got fired. It's like, Drew, I have a ton
of respect for you as a player. Not everyone is
meant to have a mic in front of their mouth
and entertain like this is entertainment, and I just I
(30:49):
don't think you're really tailor made for that. I think
you should like run a team. I think you should
be like a team president or GM. If you don't
want to coach, you'd probably be an outstanding offensive coordinator.
But just because you're fa at playing football doesn't mean
that anyone wants to listen to you talk about football,
because maybe you're just not good at doing that. I mean,
Joe Montana, one of the best football players of all time,
(31:09):
was awful. A lot of guys have just been awful.
I think Philip Rivers would be really good. But I
hope they don't do this, But I do think this
is potential to happen. Is they try to do some
like famous non football people with football people. Maybe throw
(31:31):
in a comedian there, do something like that. I would
imagine anything's online now. I can imagine the NFL would
just want a normal crew. But I don't spend that
much time thinking about you know, who should do what?
You know? If you tell me it's McAfee and someone,
I just it won't bother me. Just do whoever, Just
(31:53):
throw on the game. Most people are gonna have it
tuned relatively down because of Christmas stuff. But my guess
would be is they use crews from other networks? Gruden?
Maybe Gruden gets back in the mix problem is hesue
in the league. If I was Netflix, I John Gruden.
(32:14):
A question for the mailbag, more of a coaching one
than a scouting one. How do skill position players know
when they have to get in and out of the
next play, especially in the pros where they don't use
signs to get plays in. I've played soccer and rugby
where you substitute one for one when play is dead.
How does that work in football? Especially the quarterback gets
(32:36):
the play from the OC well on the sideline you
are screaming the the you know, the formations or the
what's it called I'm blanking right now. The not the
position groups, but the U I can't think of the terminology,
(32:57):
but like three wide receivers, two wide receivers, there's one
running back, one tight end, two tight ends, two backs,
one wide receiver. Whatever that is, it is getting screamed
from the sideline. So you know what groups you're a
part of if you're a quote unquote role player. And
then there are times when you know a starter needs
(33:19):
a breather, right, you see that all the time, like
a guy busts a big run, or guy's just exhausted
and I'll kind of tap his chest like Christian McCaffrey
or Alvin Kamara are running back, like I just need
a breath. But I think with the signals, there are
still guys screaming the whatever the group that's supposed to
(33:40):
be in there on the sideline, and you're close enough
you can hear it, and you just come off. It's
not very complicated and you've been doing it so consistently,
like in college, obviously they are the signs, but in college,
most of the guys playing in the pros don't come
off the field that much. In pro football, you rotate
a lot. There's also a lot on a given week
(34:00):
schemed up, so you kind of have an idea like, hey,
this play I'm not a part of, but you'd already
be off the field. It's a relatively seamless transition. It's
why when you see a delay of game for substitution issues,
usually the head coach goes nuts because that should not
happen because you practice it so often now on the road.
(34:21):
In certain environments it is louder, right, So it is hard,
but I think these guys relatively are used to the
ebb and flow of looking at the sideline and kind
of knowing. I would say a well run team has
little to no issues with that. This question has been
(34:47):
on my mind for the past few weeks. I would
love to hear your insight. The quarterback talent that has
been drafted from seventeen to twenty four has ushered in
a new era of football and has replaced the legends
of the two thousands and the two tw tens, Yet
only one of them has won a Super Bowl over
the next ten years. Assuming Mahomes wins two on the
(35:07):
low end and four on the high end. If Mahomes
wins four on the high end, that's pretty nuts. Like,
I think it's fair to assume the Chiefs probably win
another one, but I'd set his over under at one
and a half. If he wins two more in his career,
(35:30):
he would pass Montana, and I think he'd be wildly
considered the Brady would have the best career ever. But
the people would be arguing he's the best quarterback ever.
But I think he would definitely solidify himself as the
number two quarterback of all time fly by demandings of
the world. I think, to avoid a cop out answer,
(35:50):
I am only going to give Mahomes three. Give him
Mahomes threes a lot. I mean that would be win
six super Bowls. I know he's already won three, but
think of the gap between Brady when he won his
three to the next super Bowl he won, right, he
won his third super Bowl two thousand and one, two
thousand and three, two thousand and four. Then they didn't
(36:14):
win another Super Bowl till what twenty fourteen or fifteen
because they lost in O seven of the Giants, they
lost in eleven of the Giants. That there was a
wide gap of Tom Brady down win a super Bowl.
And the difference is Belichick like he was going to
coach that whole time. Andy is what sixty five years old?
(36:36):
So if Mahomes plays another thirteen fourteen years, is he
going to be coaching those late seventies? That that that's
a variable. Here, here's where I tentatively landed on this.
Let me know your thoughts and what changes you would make.
So Mahomes three, two for Josh Allen, two for Jordan Love,
(36:57):
one for CJ. Stroud, one for Caleb Williams, one for
brock Perty. I could not go to for Jordan Love.
Could not do it because while he did show some
signs of being Aaron Rodgers, like Aaron Rodgers was Aaron
Rodgers and rattling off MVPs and beside Tom Brady was
(37:18):
probably the second best player of the twenty tens, he
did not get back to a super Bowl after he
won it. It is so difficult, it's so random, because
the other thing is you're gonna have some random guys
on really good teams beat you in the playoffs. I
would drop all these numbers. I would put Mahomes lower.
(37:41):
The Bills have the Bills ever won a Super Bowl?
The Packers have won two super Bowls in thirty five years,
and they've had Aaron Rodgers and Brett Farr Kayleb Williams.
I can't assume he's gonna win a super Bowl. Let's
see him make the playoffs. To me, Brock Party, you
could go one for Brock Purty might have to happen
(38:02):
this year while he's on the rookie contract and their
team's gonna be really good. Who knows what the team
will look like after that, Maybe they'll be in a
transitional period. I think it's hard to do this in
the NFL because, like, what if the Lions were to
win a Super Bowl this year? What if? Trying to
think of what if the Eagles were to win a
Super Bowl in the next couple of years, their team's
(38:23):
pretty stacked. What if Matt Stafford and the Rams, their
team's pretty good. I think it's impossible to play that game.
And I think whoever you think is gonna win Super
Bowls that always ends up winning less. There was a
time after Peyton Manning went his first Super Bol'd be like,
this guy's gonna win like three four Shitty barely won two.
(38:46):
The Jordan Love Thing. How many playoff games with Packers
won over the last like ten years and again I'm
I'm high on the Packers, but they couldn't win them
with Aaron. Now they're gonna win one with Jordan Love.
Vince Young won the Rookie of the Year in six
and left so much to be desired for the remainder
(39:06):
of his career. Is there any chance that c J.
Stroud has a similar fate? Is the hype too much?
Why is everyone in complete agreement that he will be
able to compete in the AFC for years to come.
If Burrow returns to what he was and Herbert takes
off this year, he wouldn't be a top five quarterback
in his own conference. Well, if I remember correctly, Vince
(39:31):
Young was kind of playing hero ball, scrambling around. Like
Vince Young, his whole game was not predicated on throwing
the ball. C J. Stroud dominated from the pocket. C J.
Stroud's skill is a sustainable skill. It was like, no way,
Stephan Clay can shoot this many three d's this consistently,
(39:53):
and then after three years like, oh yeah, they kind
of can. It's kind of what they do. If you
play well from within the pocket, you are a good player.
If you obviously have the arm and are accurate look
at Jared Goff. Jared Goff has the skills. If you
can protect him, he's gonna be a good quarterback. He
is an excellent pocket quarterback. Well. CJ. Stroud is more athletic,
(40:17):
has a little bit more potent arm, and he plays
in a dome. So I think it's fair to I'm
with you just to anoint him like part of being
Mahomes or Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson, Like can you
do this for five years, year in year out, every
single year, Like, yeah, I might win the MVP this year.
This is a big year for him. Plus, they were
(40:39):
not a target team last year. They were not treated
on a weekly basis like we're playing the Houston Texans.
They will be this year. So what's it like having
the target on your back? But his skill and everything
that I've heard about him as a guy, and you
just watch him talk, he clearly a high level, great guy.
People like him, hard worker, but like his skill transfers
(41:04):
long term. That's the thing with Sean Watson just you know,
a lot of I'll I never and listened to Sean
when he was young. Was awesome to watch, but it
was a lot of outside the pockets, scrambling around making
shit happen. That's kind of random, like it kind of
comes back in to equal out over time. It was
Russell Wilson's problem. He's not some great pocket quarterback, but
(41:26):
early on in his career, in his heyday, scramble around,
he would make these remarkable plays. But like what happens
when you're just like thirty four and you just have
to play from within the pocket? Can you play from
within the pocket? Right? Why does Zach Wilson suck? Can't
play from within the pocket? Why did the Niners get
rid of Trey Lance? Didn't think he had any pocket presents?
(41:47):
CJ does. And when you have that skill and then
you're accurate and you have a good arm, like your
floor is really high. Now does that mean you're ever
gonna be the second best quarterback? And we got a
lot to learn. But I would be stunned if he's
not a really good player now, like where he ranks.
I want to see if he keeps playing like he
(42:08):
did last year, he's gonna rank pretty high. Hey man,
love the pod, but your take about Lamar has been
horribly wrong. He was at the first two days of
OTAs mixed the next two days and there the last
two days. Not sure how you got the misconception he
didn't show up at all. I let it slide the
first time, but when you preed it today when talking
(42:30):
about Rogers, he missed all of OTAs and showed up
to the mandatory mini camp. It's been well reported. I
don't care. It doesn't bother me. But when you're Lamar Jackson,
you show up to everything. You know why Patrick Mahomes did,
Josh Allen did, every quarterback worths assault? Does Aaron Rodgers
(42:51):
forty years old doing drugs somewhere whatever? I don't care,
But like Lamar, you're chasing Patrick. If Patricks said practice,
you should be a practice fifty million dollars a year,
how's this debatable? Like? How could anyone go, yeah, this
is a little weird. What's he doing? Why is he
not in practice? I'll tell you who was mad. It
doesn't bother me. I'm not a fucking Ravens fan. You
(43:13):
guys screwed me when I pick five thousand dollars on
you win the AFC Championship Game and you shit down
your leg. One of the most embarrassing performances I've ever seen.
Biggest waste of money I've ever had. I can't believe
I bet against Andy and Mahomes with Todd Monkin and
Lamar Jackson skipping balls into the ground. I was the
guy that believed. I was finally a believer. I was like, Okay,
this team. I thought Ravens are gonna win super Bowl.
(43:35):
And you don't win the super Bowl and then you're
skipping practice when Patrick Mahomes is a practice. Come on, man, like,
that's just it's a bad look. Pay fifty plus million
dollars a year every time we have an event. You
should be there, period, point blank. In the story. What
are we talking about. I'm not a journalist. This is
it's not about facts, right, It's been well reported. He
(43:56):
was nowhere to be found. Showed up at the end
when you literally have to because you get fined. I
don't BLAMEI. I wouldn't want to get fined. He got
fined seven hundred you know, seven hundred and fifty thousand
dollars work cow bonus. He didn't get why because he
wasn't a practice And I defended him like it's not
very much money to him relative to how much he makes.
Though I wouldn't be in the business again in seven
(44:16):
hundred and fifty K round. But like there's no defending
Lamar Jackson. Not showing up there just isn't like unless
someone's sick or ill. But if you're just not showing
up because you don't want to be there, like is
Patrick Mahomes. There's Patrick Mahomes at practice because that's what
That's how I'd be looking. And I'm chasing what's Tiger
Wood's doing. He's in balls. I better be hitting balls.
(44:36):
Michael Jordan's in the gym, Lebron's Stephan was in the gym.
I better be in the gym, not by myself with
my team when my team's practicing. God that performs in
the in the playoff game was all time embarrassment. It
really was question for the bag given the modern landscape
(44:57):
of the league end game. In a hypothetical fifty three
round fantasy draft, quarterbacks would fly off the board to start.
My question is how many you think would come off
the board before taking a non quarterback. I think I
got this question by someone before. I think the numbers
a little smaller. I think the last time I got
the question, someone wrote twenty quarterbacks I don't think it
(45:20):
would be twenty quarterbacks. I think when we got to
about ten, let's do it right now. Mahomes, Alan Lamar Herbert,
for sure, it's crazy, it's gonna sound Kayleb Williams would
go c J. Stroud, that's seven, Jalen Hurts like the
(45:45):
Dak Cousins, Purty Goff. You know, all that stuff's debatable.
Am I missing any Burrow? But you'd get pretty quick
into like, wait, you're not gonna draft Michael Parsons, You're
gonna draft Kirk Cousins over Nick Bosa. And I probably
(46:05):
I'm doing off the cuff, probably left out a couple guys.
I think the number somewhere between ten to twelve, ten
to twelve. If Kyle Shanahan was drafting, party would go
I Goff? I mean, would you take Goff? This is
a good example, Goff, who I'd now put above Dak
and above Kirk Cousins because I see a guy playing
well in the playoffs. Would you take Golf if you
(46:29):
needed to start a team from scratch and you weren't
gonna if you had the tenth pick and you weren't
drafting again until whatever forty or whatever, forty two. You
do the math, you're taking golf or Michael Parsons. You
could argue, just take GoF you got a good quarterback.
I don't know if wide receivers, like I'm taking lineman
(46:51):
before I'm taking wide receivers. There's so many wide receivers
in the league. It's go, okay, you took you know,
Ceedee Lamb in the first round, I'll take. I'm and
Ross Saint Brown in the third or something. You know,
I would take the pass rushers, the tackles I'd take,
I would probably go depending on where I drafted quarterback
(47:11):
O line D line in the first couple rounds. With
the new kickoff rule in place, do you think the
kicker position as we know it is a thing of
the past. Kickers are going to be involved in a
whole lot of tackles, which leads me to believe we'll
see an evolution of the kicker to a more physical
body type than the scrawny soccer player we've become accustomed to. Well,
(47:36):
the problem is you still need your kicker to make
field goals. So do you want Justin Tucker making open
field tackles? Of course not, But like, are you finding
ray Lewis with Justin Tucker's leg Like. Part of the
thing is what they do is pretty difficult. Has anyone
ever just screwed around and had someone hold the ball
(47:57):
and it just attempt to kick like a fifteen yard
fieldal I mean, these guys are doing it with a
pass rush, working the ball phage draws high low. I
think it kind of is what it is now. If
you can find a former tight end or a safety
that's now the kicker. Yeah, but there's a big difference
(48:21):
in Justin Reid kicking the ball off as he did
for the Chiefs and booming it through the end zone.
Then like, would the Chiefs trust him in the second
half of a tie game to kick a field goal?
I would doubt it. Obviously he's not better than Butt
Kerr's kicking field goals, but most of the field goal
kickers they might miss, But what they do you feel
(48:44):
pretty good about. Right the handful of the top ten
twelve guys in the league, you would never replace that
just because a guy. It's gonna be an issue because
those guys are gonna be put in space and they're screwed.
But you could argue a lot of players if they're
in a one on one position where a kicker usually is.
Unless you're Ed Reid or Troy Paulton, mal you're not
(49:07):
gonna make that tackle. You're just at a huge disadvantage.
Guys running full speed, you're back pedaling. You could argue
it doesn't matter if guys get to your kicker, and
I would say this in the old kickoff back when
more people used to return, and where we're at now,
I just don't. I just think you kind of acknowledge it.
(49:28):
If you get there, you're kind of screwed because that
guy doesn't exist. And what they do is is just
so hard. It's really hard to kick field goals. There's
a ton of pressure. It's really closer to like golf
or hitting where you just there's just time to think
about it. It's just hard. A huge fan of the putt,
(49:53):
I think you're undervaluing a Yuke's impact on the Niners offense. Yes,
of course CMC is the most important skill player, but
Kyle has never had more downfield attempts than he has
with Purdy and Ayuk. I understand that your point is
Ayuk is never gonna have as many catches as Amenro,
but his impact with the ones he does haul in
(50:14):
are more valuable. Ayuk averages seventeen to nine a catch,
meaning he would only have to catch ten more balls
to pass Saint Brown's yardage for twenty twenty three. Maybe
one hundred balls may be too many, but isn't entirely
possible that he catches eighty five to ninety as he
continues to build on the work he's put in with
(50:36):
Purty not a huge advanced stats guy, but Perdi's average
the most air yards per attempt this past season, meaning
he is pushing the ball pass the line more than
any other quarterback. I believe Ayuk is a huge reason
for this. Doesn't having Ayuk's medium to down the field
ability to open things up for CMC in the box,
(50:58):
his overall yak monster no numbers on the team, and
they're new over the middle slot weapon in Persoll. I
think Persall is going to be an outside the weapon.
My man. I don't disagree with you that Ayuk's a
really good player and his value is really really high,
like he's a high end, starting, winning player. But does
(51:19):
Kyle think that he can replace that with someone else?
Because where it gets complicated is like you said, his
impact being threatened down the field matters, But can I
find someone else to do that for a quarter of
the price. Where this becomes a complicated conversation is he's
laughing at twenty six million dollars, he wants thirty million dollars. Well,
(51:44):
part of my offense, Like, can I find someone in
a draft in the second round that can ultimately do that?
Can I sign some random free agent for ten million
dollars that can bring me eighty percent of his value
for or twenty percent of the costs, and then my
team's better on defense. That's where this puzzle gets put together.
(52:07):
In a perfect world, the Niners would get rid of
you know, obviously for the next five years. They would
rather have Brandon Ayuke than Deebo Samuel moving forward. But
it's a complicated situation because of the money. I'm not
anti Brandon Nyuk. I just look at the way Kyle
plays and goes they have. You have to understand too,
(52:28):
they have other question marks moving forward. Trent Williams, one
of the best players in the league, is thirty five
years old, So how are you gonna get another tackle?
You're either gonna trade multiple picks to get move up
in a draft and try to get a guy in
the top twenty. Maybe if a guy becomes available, you
trade a first round pick and you break them off
(52:49):
with a huge contract. You know, you, Charvarius Ward, is
he gonna be on the team forever? You gonna have
to buy a corner you just your team becomes party
is about to get We just saw what Trevor Lawrence
gott Perty's gonna get that or not? If not more,
it becomes a puzzle of putting money together. It's why
(53:09):
the forty nine ers haven't just handed him this contract.
If I was a betting man, they probably end up
paying him. But I do think these conversations have been
long and hard because I, like you said, his value
to the team, he just watched them play. He's a
very valuable player. But is he an irreplaceable player? We're
(53:31):
gonna find out here in the next couple months, because
if the forty nine ers don't extend him and make
him play on the contract, then he's they view him
as a replaceable player. They end up giving him thirty
million dollars a year, then they don't view it that way.
I do think he's not He's never gonna be a
(53:51):
top five wide receiver in the league and paying premiums
for god Like, I have no problem giving Nick Bose
a historic deal. He's one of the best pass ferson
in the league, one of the highest paid linebackers, best
linebacker in the league. When they broke off Kittle, he
was one of the best tight ends in the league.
It's really good. And like you said, he's good with
the act, he's he's just a really good player. And
(54:11):
again I'm not saying Saint Brown, like, if you could
just have a draft, who would you rather have. I
like both players, but it's easier to justify when I
throw one guy one hundred and twenty passes, the large
percentage of my targets goes through him, and not a
large percentage of my targets go through this guy. When
I run the ball a lot, and like you said,
you need receivers to move the defense around. But personnel
(54:37):
groupings was the word I was looking for earlier. You know,
summer brains a little foggy, drank a little too much
last weekend. But yeah, I mean, I don't I'm not
necessarily disagreeing with what you're saying, but I find these
things very complicated when you're talking about paying premium amounts
of money for guys like can we do better? And listen,
(54:59):
can you do better? There's no guarantee you can't, and
then you find yourself where you have a hole at
that position. But I understand the complicated nature, Like Nick
Bosa wasn't complicated. It's basically how much you were we
gonna end up giving them. Christian McCaffrey wanted to raise
gotta do it. If Trent Williams goes I need a race,
gotta do it. When I use says I want thirty
(55:22):
plus million dollars a year, you don't just write that
check right away. You have long, hard conversations. They literally
just draft a wide receiver in the first round. Here's
the other thing, like Kittle's been banged up a lot.
Now they're gonna need a new tight end. So you
just have a lot of needs and you don't have
unlimited draft picks. And when you're good, you're drafted at
the end of the first round, so it's not like
you're getting Julio Jones every year. I just think these
(55:46):
conversations are very, very different. This is a difficult conversation
to have. I understand both sides. This isn't justin Jefferson
where it's like, yeah, it is what it is ceed
lamb aj Brown to the Eagles, this is like, God,
this guy's really good and we love the player and
he stands for everything we do and that's why, ultimately
probably why they end up eating it. But I would understand, like, hey,
(56:08):
you want thirty, we want twenty six. We'll give you
twenty seven and a half, but we're not budgeting off
that number. Like not every negotiation is like well, blank check,
you sign it. Steph Curry, you tell me, Aaron Judge,
tell me the number. Otani, how much is it gonna cost?
That ain't this? That ain't this. And that's why I
(56:28):
think it's so emotional because I U sees all these
other guys because of the position, and his team is
not like kissing his feet even though they like him.
This is just these are tough conversations because of the
numbers we're talking about, they're really large, even with the
cap going up. It's Brandon ayuk Worth. It is a
(56:52):
is a legitimate conversation, no matter what side of the
argument or where you stand. So I'm not I'm not
a proponent of trading him. But if you told me
they wanted to play this year out, Like, I don't
think that's that crazy either. I really don't, And I'd
understand it from his side, like fuck you guys, give
him my money, like I get every Like this is
(57:14):
a very easy kind of situation to understand, all the sides.
I know my guy earlier thinks I'm a Lamar Jackson hater,
like the Ravens, like, what are you gonna do? When
they were going back and forth Lamar like, you don't
have a choice. You're gonna pay this guy an ungodly
amount of money, and that's what ultimately ended up happening.
(57:34):
You can see the different scenarios here. That's that's where
I stand on this. Like if I had to bet
he's gonna be on the Niners, if you had to
bet if a new contract, ultimately give him a new contract,
do I think, Yeah, we don't agree on a number.
We want you to play on the fifteen million dollar
fourteen and a half or whatever the number is. I
can see that trade harder to see because you'd be
(57:57):
trading him for a draft pick who does not help
you now. But been following this league and sports long
enough that you never say never. So I think at
this point in time, until the deal's done, you have
to acknowledge everything's on the table. And one guy who,
you know, some internet fans get mad at is Mike Silver, Like,
I don't know. Mike Silver's don the Shanahans for thirty
(58:18):
plus years, so when he reports on this stuff, he's
kind of been right. So there's a little bit of
an impass, Like there's a number of the team thinks
there's a number, he thinks it's bridgeable, doesn't mean it's
gonna happen. The volume
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