3 & Out - Jayden Daniels out, AGAIN, Russ vs. Payton, and Why Backup QBs Matter - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? John middlecof three
and Out podcast. That'd be me and that'd be what

(00:21):
you're listening to. I'm gonna do a couple of quick
NFL things. Jaydon Daniels is injured, and just the overall
scope of these quarterbacks. Are they being a little too reckless?
Also wanted to hit on Sean Payton his comments and
are we are we overreacting? Russell had a tweet, so

(00:45):
I want to Woody Johnson also had some comments on
his quarterbacks or a quarterback in justin fields. Are we
just too obsessed with the optics right now relative to reality?
I just want to dive into that. And then I
brought on formal know is intern Jackson? Now he's just
behind the scenes producer Jackson And we just talked college
football for like an hour on the hiring cycle. Who's

(01:10):
gonna get hired? What jobs are good? We just he's
a college football junkie, And I said, you know what,
Jackson hop on here and let's talk a little ball.
But other than that, that'll be the game plan for today.
So I know, saw a lot of you guys firing
those dms might have to manually get back to some
of you, But we will work on that. I'll find it.

(01:31):
Maybe I'll put one out on Saturday morning or something
off to think about that, but no mail bag today.
So basically, just a little NFL talk, little college football talk.
If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe
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(01:52):
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Down with the game Time app Today last minute takets
lost price is guaranteed. I was thinking about this today
because I saw Jayden Daniels is injured, and let's face it,
it feels like he was injured kind of to start
the season. He does not looked like the same guy physically,

(02:56):
just moving around. He's been banged up. One of the
knocks on Jane Daniels, like a lot of quarterbacks in
these modern times, is pretty reckless, doesn't protect himself. And
I was thinking, like, listen, we all get accustomed to
our environment. My life is so predicated on the internet. Obviously,
I make my living literally on the Internet, but all

(03:19):
my TVs are all powered through the Internet. If the
Internet goes down for five seconds, I have a conniption.
I lose my mind. If just for a split second,
and it rarely does. I'm watching TV, I'm watching a game,
and that little refresher goes, I flip out. Fifteen years
ago or how twenty years ago, when I was like
in high school and in college, it took me five

(03:41):
hours to download one song and at the end of it,
I was so happy. I remember being when I worked
at Fresno State streaming the show Dexter off this illegal
website and it would take like three hours to watch
one forty minute episode because it would have to buffer,
and I was like a pig, and shit, I was
so happy. It was awesome. And nowadays, if our internet,

(04:04):
especially for those of us that pay for the highest
speed Internet, isn't at warp speed and everything works perfectly,
we lose it. We wouldn't acted like that fifteen twenty
years ago. Why the Internet wasn't that fast. We weren't
used to the Internet working no different than cable television. Weren't.
We didn't have the ability to press a button and
something would be downloaded like that. I grew up on

(04:26):
NFL football, where my favorite player as a kid, Steve Young,
got knocked out on the field. Aneas Williams and guys
used to get dropped constantly. If you threw a ball
over the middle and it was in danger zone and
your target, your wide receiver, your tight end, your running
back was going to get taken out, it would be

(04:50):
called a hospital ball. Hell. When I worked for the
Philadelphia Eagles, I remember multiple times the ambulance coming in
a guy getting carted off the field because a safety
I think Austin Colly one time in Philadelphia definitely happened
to Shan Jackson on the road in Atlanta, it used
to happen all the time. Guys would get killed. So

(05:10):
safety and being cautious from quarterbacks, the way they played
and the way they threw the ball down the field
was a huge part of the sport. Well now because
of what happened in the middle of last decade, everything
was CTE and I would say, I don't want to
say an overcoreate correction. I do think college like can

(05:33):
peel it back a little bit. If you watch football
Saturdays Sundays, no one's trying to hurt anyone anymore. They
literally used to. I mean Greg Williams once said kill
the head, the body will die. But that was like
the ethos of football. Now when you watch a guy,
especially on Saturdays, sometimes a guy makes a last second
movement in the crown of his helmet hits him. Suspending

(05:55):
him for a game or kicking him out of that
game is to me egregious. Even in the NFL, some
of these targeting penalties, like I don't think this isn't
John Lynch nineteen ninety six, this isn't Ronnie Lott nineteen
eighty eight, Like times have dramatically changed, and I give
a lot of credit to the players and the coaches
that they've kind of worked it out of the game.
But quarterbacks feel much more. I would say in bolden

(06:20):
to run around thinking you can't hit me. Hell, I
love Patrick Mahomes. His little move on the sideline of
like I'm fake going out of bounds. I know you
can't touch me. I move back and I gain more
yards is insane. It should be penalized. But a lot
of younger quarterbacks even feel like I'm gonna run around
you can't touch me. And I think once you get
to the NFL, obviously, like in any physical contact sport

(06:45):
or any sort of activity, that there's a physical element
earning your teammates or people you play with or against
respect as a competitor, and your toughness is something males
like to do, so I never hold it against a
player for trying to prove his toughness, but I think

(07:06):
pretty early on guys can tell like this guy's tougher,
he's not. And most people, especially most quarterbacks in the NFL,
Like we can just go around the NFL, you'd be
hard pressed to go say this guy's not tough, right,
But I watched Jayden Daniels, I watched Jackson Dark, and
my first takeaway is like, they're kind of reckless. And
I understand that the game protects you now to a point,

(07:29):
but when you run around and I'm not saying Jayden
Daniels pulled his hamstring because a reckless individual play, but
I'm saying his overall game is not sustainable. And yeah,
there aren't guys in the NFL that weigh two hundred
and sixty pounds anymore. Linebackers, right, they weigh two hundred
and thirty pounds, but they run way faster, and they
have two percent body fat, and they train three hundred

(07:50):
and sixty five days a year, and if they catch
you on the sideline and you're not gonna slide. They
will fucking rock your world. And the thing I respect
about the mature version of Lamar Jackson and even watching
Kyler Murray is they're pretty dialed in too when they're
running around hitting the ground. Why because their livelihood and

(08:11):
most importantly, their team's success. Maybe not Kyler, but definitely Lamar,
but any decent quarterback depends on them playing in the game.
It's why people are so critical of Tua as he's
getting knocked out. It's like, Tua, you need to get down.
You are not. This is in high school football. Even
DeMar Hamlin is going to dominate you in the open field.

(08:34):
If you just run into them. You gotta slide. You
gotta live to fight another down. And historically one there
hasn't you know, up until the last I don't know,
ten plus years, the majority of quarterbacks were statues. And
we have morphed into where all these guys can move
like every single quarterback except like Jared Goff is what

(08:55):
you would consider like above average mobility. And we have
a handful of guys who were like elite athletes right
running dual threat quarterbacks, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer,
all these guys. Listen, you get hurt. Those guys have
missed seasons for major injuries. It's football. Hell, you can
get hurt training, You get hurt lifting. So like, I

(09:16):
have to be very cautious and be smart about when
I'm in the open field and even in the pocket
some of these guys and you saw it Sam Darnol
the other night, Like, you gotta be cautious. You gotta
be smart because you will get injured. These guys are big, fast, strong,
and they get to hit you once a week. They
work all season long for seventeen times. It's the only

(09:37):
time they get to tackle you. And honestly, most of
these practice they don't get to tackle anybody anymore. So,
the violence and the way people are coached. If you
went to a defensive team meeting on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,
the day before the game, the day of the game,
it sounds a lot different than the offensive team meeting.
It would make a lot of people in society probably

(09:58):
pretty uncomfortable. And I'm talking about people that like watching football,
that watch probably many hours on Saturday and Sunday. If
they got to attend the defensive coordinators meeting on a
Saturday night, on Sunday at halftime. There would be a
lot of millions of people that would just say, listen,

(10:19):
I get it, but like, I don't really want to
know how the hot dogs made. And it would sound
way better today than it would have fifteen, twenty thirty
years ago. And I'm watching Jane Daniels and I'm watching
Jackson Dart. I'm watching all these young quarterbacks. I mean,
brock perties banged up, and obviously their individual injuries could
be a little random, but their overall way they play,

(10:40):
it's not a sustainable model. The reason I mean, look
at Aaron Rodgers, who was kind of a dual threat
scramble guy. I wouldn't call him a runner, but most
of his career was relatively smart and still had a
couple of times where had a collar broone shattered as
he got older, ripped in Achilles. You just never know
that could come at any moment, completely out of your control.

(11:03):
So the things that you can control when a defender
is by you, you gotta learn to pick your spots.
And I do wonder if these guys starting in high
school through college, and these guys can't touch me, And
I don't even blame them that's kind of what I
would think. It's like, they touch me, they're gonna get flagged.
And most times I get touched as a younger player,
I'm not getting injured. But as you go up and

(11:23):
then once if I'm Jackson Dart, if I'm Jane damp shit,
I made through the SEC. It was cool. Then I
was playing the best players in the country. Look at me,
I'm good to go. It's like you're playing now the
best of the best. Who are every single one of
those guys as a pro. Every single one of those
guys has a chance to be a multi millionaire. You're

(11:43):
going up against some guys making twenty thirty, thirty five
to forty million dollars. If you're playing Micah Parson's forty
seven million dollars, you cannot run away from that guy.
And if he catches you and you're not careful because
you feel invincible, he will send you to the blue tent,
could knock you out a month, could end your season.
And unlike a lot of these other players, think about this.

(12:06):
The forty nine ers are a good example. Fred Warner's
the best linebacker in the league. I would say Nick Bosa,
he's coming off a down season, but I thought, based
on early in the season, looked like one of the
best players in the league. Again, both of them gone
for the year. Burden and I is probably still gonna
win ten games with their backup quarterback. Why because Mac

(12:27):
Jones is a serviceable quarterback. But if they didn't have
mac Jones and they had Kyle Allen like they did
last year, they'd win six or seven games, even if
Nick Bosa and Fred Warner were playing. Your value. We
know this from a gambling standpoint. When a starting quarterback
goes out when Lamar's out or when he's in, can
be worth anywhere from seven to ten points. That's an objective.

(12:48):
No one cares, no emotion involved. These are the facts.
And so when I see Jayden Daniels, who had this
incredible rookie season, I go God, I just I hope
he can corral his talents a little bit because his
the way he plays is not to look at the
guy he is playing with. Marcus Mariota a bunch of
injuries early in his career, also same type of thing,

(13:10):
little reckless as a player. I'm watching Jackson Dart, who
is someone that I hope has like a fifteen year career.
I know this the way he's playing currently of just
giving zero you know what about anything when it comes
to his body, he will not have a long career
playing like that. Now. It's hard to like coach that
out of you, and who knows, maybe it's not coachable

(13:32):
once you hit a certain point. But if they do
want to play for a long time, we got to
have no one's actually asking you to play like Peyton
Manning and Tom Brady where you don't move from a
two or three yard radius, but you can't take unneeded
hits for the hell of it. It's just not You
can't have a long career doing it, which is not possible,
not a quarterback. I saw an interesting stat that Kyle

(13:55):
Shanahan is seventeen and seven when it's corequarterbacks injured and
he has to play with the backup on the flip side.
John Harbaugh when Lamar's injured is two and six. And
I was thinking, like because I saw Matt Mayoku, who
has covered the forty nine ers for decades I think
I think close to thirty years, and he won a

(14:17):
local radio today canbr for those of you in the
East Coast, like WFAN's big, big channel. Unlike WFAN, it's
not quite as powerful as it was in its heyday,
but it's still you can hear it up and down
the state of California. And he said that Kyle Shanahan
essentially is a lifetime contract. He would either have to
quit on his own or have something, you know, crazy

(14:42):
happen off the field. But if he wants to keep
coaching the forty nine ers, he's going nowhere. And I
see a stat like this seventeen and seven with your
backup quarterback, that's where your value is derived from, you know,
like Andy Reid for example. People think that he's be
come this legendary guy because he's won these Super Bowls

(15:06):
and obviously his status in the NFL, going to five
or six and winning all these games with Patrick Mahomes
has like cemented his legacy. I'd argue his legacy legacy
is the wrong word, but I'd argue his status in
the league was set over the years of winning with
random guys. Remember when Donovan McNabb I think rupture Di

(15:28):
Spleen and they made the playoffs with an old Jeff Garcia.
Remember when he traded for Alex Smith, who had like
a season and a half of good football and then
went to the playoffs four or five years and competed
toe to toe with Philip Rivers in his prime and
a loaded Denver Bronco team. Like we know, Andy Reid,

(15:49):
Sean Payton, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay. If I give them
the best quarterback in the league, or top two or
three quarterback in the league, they're gonna dominate. But what
do you do when I take that guy away? What
do you do when I give you someone random? Because
let's face, at the beginning of the year, if I
said you had to start ten games with Mac Jones,
whether you're Andy Reid, whether you're Kyle Shanahan, or whether

(16:10):
you're the uh, you know, the New York Jets, all
of our answers I'm guilty of this too, would have said,
you're in trouble. That is not gonna go well. Now,
if you know, we would all agree that Andy Reid
would have a better chance to win some games with
Mac Jones than the Jets. But would I say, hey,
would they be a Super Bowl contender? You'd say, no chance.

(16:32):
But that's the value of a star coach, especially an
offensive one is they can take random guys, not even
random guys, but people whose value is down, just simply
their backup quarterback and continue to win. And sometimes like
the backup quarterback like Jacoby brissaid, is he a better
player than Kyler Murray? Yeah, he might be, but that's

(16:53):
like up for debate. They just gave rock Perty two
hundred and plus million dollars. He's missing this week. If
you told me he never plays again this season, I
think that's possible. He has an injury that simply does
not go away, and he's not gonna get surgery in
the middle of the season, so there's a chance that
even if he tries to come back into practice he
could reinjure it. We never see him again. The forty

(17:17):
nine ers with Mac Jones, I would say their floor
would probably be ten games. If he plays well in
some of these tougher games. Who's to say they couldn't
win twelve. That's with missing Brandon Ayuk the entire season,
Fred Warner broken foot, Nick Bosa torn acl And it's
why when we bring up John Harbaugh, it's like, Okay, John,

(17:37):
you're great with Lamar Jackson, but wouldn't most coaches be
you know, like, that's impressive, I guess, But what do
you do when he's injured and we see you're terrible?
You have no shot, your team's loses, And that's where
you start asking these questions of like how valuable is he?

(17:57):
Is he irreplaceable? Because the guy that's not repling is
Lamar Jackson. The guy that is replaceable, I think it's
fair to say, is John Harbaugh and Kyle Shanahan. Like, listen,
Jed Yorko, I'm paying him a lot of money. He's
probably underpaid given how many wins you get out of
him with just chaotic quarterback play. And last but not least,

(18:22):
Sean Payton. I understand how this story took on a
life of its own when Russell Wilson put out a
tweet basically taking a shot at Sean Payton for taking
a shot at him, calling him class list whatever. So
I just went back and rewatched what Sean Payton said.
And my first one overall theme I have just in

(18:44):
general in society, is the Internet has created this world
where if everyone agrees that the sky is red, if
you say the sky is blue, everyone goes, what the
fuck are you talking about? We're so big into optics
and saying the right thing even if it's not true,
but it'll make people feel good. So it's like, Okay,

(19:05):
did I listen to this wrong? Like Woody Johnson, I
understand people going, yeah, probably not the best idea. Even
if Woody Johnson says that there is quarterback struggles to
complete passes and essentially isn't good at football universally, you
couldn't meet one Jets fan. You couldn't meet one football
fan who has watched the Jets, gambled on the Jets,

(19:26):
has fantasy players on the Jets, who has paid attention
to the Jets go. He's not lying, but as the
owner of the team, given that your teams in shambles,
given that your team is just I don't know, just
always chaotic, crazy, a laughing stock, like it just adding
fuel to the fire, not needed. It would have been

(19:47):
an easy thing to bullshit your way through, right to go, listen,
our quarterback struggling, our offensive struggling, we're all struggling. We're
gonna keep working hard and we'll be better. It just
would have made the story less of a story. And
I've come to the conclusion is like I don't even
think Woody Johnson realizes what he's saying, and maybe that's
the case of being born into crazy wealth, being so

(20:07):
rich and being a little out of it. Like I
don't even think he realizes his comments create a bigger issue,
and who knows, maybe he doesn't give a shit, because
I also think that's a play. But I rewatched Sean
Payton's comments about saying how good Jackson Dart was and
how an ownership in which he worked for decades ago,
and like he said, still friends with the Marrows, the Tishes.

(20:29):
How he said, like listen, I was hoping you wouldn't
make the change. Everyone thinks that universally agreed upon that
the ones. It's not even debatable. It's not like a
subjective thought at this point in time. It's literally a
fact that since Jackson Dart has come in an offense
and a team that was in shambles has averaged over

(20:51):
twenty five points a game and is six in the
NFL and scoring during that time, and just from a
aesthetic eye test standpoint, he looks fantastic. One of the
fun young players in the National Football League and honestly
one of the more entertaining young quarterbacks. In recent memory,
looks like he's got a chance as long as he
can be a little more careful run around to be

(21:14):
a stud. And that's what Sean Payton told him, like,
you guys got a good one and somehow, and I
get it because their pas crossed. But honestly, rewatching that again,
I'm like, I don't think he was going out of
his way, and this comeback is like he can be
a dick, he can be a d back. And maybe
some of those things are true. I don't know Sean Payton,
but on that individual instance, I don't think it was

(21:36):
a route Russell Wilson. I honestly don't think it had
anything to do with Russell Wilson. I don't think he
gives a crap about Russell Wilson anymore. And you know
who definitely doesn't Giants fans, why because they get that quarterback.
He was putting your guy on a pedestal, saying like,
you got something special here. I was hoping we wouldn't
had to play them. Part of running a football teams,
you're getting ready for stuff way ahead early in the

(21:59):
season and you start game planning in training camp. So
this notion that he was like going out of his
way classless. I just didn't see it. Now I get
we're in this world where I guess on the internet
at least not in society in real world doesn't act
like that, but like you have to pretend something is

(22:20):
true even though it's not true. Like we all can
agree Russell Wilson's not good anymore. If you were a coach,
if you were a player, if you were a gambler,
if you were anybody, you would rather play Russell Wilson
than Jackson Dark. That is like one hundred percent universally
agreed upon. Yet a guy doesn't even say that, but

(22:43):
people think he's alluding to that. It becomes a national
story in he's classless. I do think it's funny. And
again this maybe it's the Internet not a great representation
to people. Everyone can agree with something, even the Woody
Johnson thing. Like I would say, if you just go
on social media during the course of this season, every

(23:04):
person and you can probably even find like a brother,
sister or someone related to him kind of shitting on
justin Fields And I feel bad, Like I've never thought
he was not a good player, but he's really earned
my respect the way he's handled some of these weird
situations in Chicago in Pittsburgh. So it's like, I like
the guy. So it's like, I'm not gonna just take
a dump on him for being a bad player. I

(23:25):
never thought he was that good once he kind of
established that he can't really throw in the pocket. But
we all agreed like, hey, he's not any good. Then
the owner's like, hey he's not any good. And people
are like, oh, what an asshole? How can you believe that?
Even though I believe it, but you can't say that.
Well I can say it, but you can't say it.
That's what it feels like. A lot of this is,

(23:46):
which is just exhausting. I can't do these mental gymnastics
and listen, I get Russell Wilson or Sierra whoever put
that tweet out standing up for himself because everyone's been
crapping on him for a while. Hell, his own teammates
at Seattle they don't like him. Like that's again, this
isn't It'd be one thing if like, can you believe

(24:07):
he took a shot at Cam Hayward? Can you believe
that that guy said something about Max Crosby. He's like, well,
that's not a left field. This guy said something about
something bad about Justin Herbert or you know, you just
picked the good Roquan Smith. You don't hear those things
yet everyone now, for a decade plus, his own teammates

(24:29):
didn't like him. We didn't create that story. They literally did.
John Schneider, Pete Carroll pretty much over him. Sean Payton
immediately over him. The Pittsburgh Steelers couldn't get rid of
him fast enough. And it's like Sean Payton's the bad
guy now, people like middle cof you're just sticking up.
I don't never had one interaction with Sean Payton. I

(24:51):
don't know one guy on his staff. I have no
connection to Sean Payton. I don't care at all. I'm out.
But I also think this story is just insane. Other
than that, I just the doubleheader thing, I promise you.
I saw Florio post about it, that the numbers are up,

(25:13):
and it's just it's just not gonna go away. I'm
not gonna I'm trying not to complain about football because
I love football and I do love watching it. I
just don't like Monday night doubleheaders. I get it from
a fantasy standpoint. I don't know maybe it's nostalgia. Playing
on Monday night football is a really big deal. Like

(25:35):
when I was a kid, if your team was playing
on Monday night football, how even teams that you didn't
care about, Like oh, I get to watch the Chiefs
play the Broncos or I get to watch the Jets
play the Dolphins. I just think like Monday night football
to me is a very meaningful three hours. It was
a really big deal, and it almost feels and this

(25:57):
is the modern day NFL they don't care about anything.
I mean, look at European game. Game's terrible every single week,
even when in theory it's good teams like Ramsjacks, it's
fired up. I wake up, it's fourteen nothing. I'm like,
this game is trash. So I maybe I'm, you know,
a dying breed. I feel like, get off my lawn.

(26:17):
But I just Monday night football should be a sacred
place for one game, you know. But if you told
me that in five years, for ten weeks of the
year there's a double header, I'd believe you. Who knows,
maybe it'll be sixteen weeks a year. Maybe it'll just
be double headers Thursday night as well, Sunday night, as well,
maybe it just won't stop. So maybe I need to

(26:38):
change my tune and carry myself off my lawn into reality,
into Roger Goodell's office. I'm just going double headers. Hell,
we went up Monday through Tuesday Wednesday, just double headers
all over the place. I wouldn't put it past him
at this point. Today's show is brought to you by

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(28:30):
We haven't done this in a little while, but we
got a lot going on right now. In college football.
We got guys getting fired left and right, some of
the biggest jobs in America. Penn State, Florida. It looks like,
you know, Mike Norvell at Florida State. You got Brian
Kelly at LSU fending off the buyouts. So we got

(28:51):
a lot going on, so I said, you know what,
let's bring in as I called him yesterday on the podcast,
a little overachieving slot receiver. I guess he was a
four to seven guy. But hey, listen. He played college
football at Montana, which is which is a place I
have a lot of respect for when I was scouting.
I actually watched the game there and I sat next

(29:14):
to I stood next to it because I watched the
game on the sideline next to Tinkle, the basketball coach.
Yeah who. He then went to Oregon State. The guy
was awesome. I mean, we just we just ended up
talking football. He remember he took Oregon State to the
Final four probably like I don't know, seven, eight years ago.
He was. He was really cool. But that that's awesome place.
So let's bringing Uh. He used to be intern Jackson.

(29:35):
Now he's just a producer. Jackson. What's up, bro? How
you doing?

Speaker 2 (29:40):
I'm doing great repping the Montana Grizzlies, not the Montana
Pandas according to the Sacramento State President. But yeah, so
much going on in college football in terms of the
hot seats, in terms of coaching.

Speaker 1 (29:51):
You've been covering college football for a while, like, is
there ever really really quick though, did we get a
verified forty for you? Like? What? Oh?

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, yeah, four to seven I think was my best
s whitch I don't know, you're an NFL scout. I
don't know how much what round I would get dropped in.
I know my stats weren't great in college. Didn't even
see the field in college, but a four seven five,
but ran a three to nine in the in the
what is it the five ten five shuttle? Which I
got that agile, I got the hands. I can't really
run the go route, but third and five you need something,

(30:20):
I got you.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah. I mean Keenan Allen, if you remember at Cal
had like kind of messed up his knee or something,
refused to run the forty and then kind of did
like a week before the combine. I think if we
time Keenan Allen, especially at this age, he's probably four eight. Guy, listen,
if you work the middle of the field, you do
not need to be justin Jefferson there on the outside.

(30:42):
So it's it's about toughness, it's about willingness, and it's
about really just kind of getting open in short areas.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Just get open, catch the ball. That's all that matters.
I mean, You're not getting open on Derek Stingley or anything. No, no,
hell no. I think I could maybe get open on
Jalen Ramsey though, that's probably the one.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah, I don't think you're getting off the line. I'm
gonna I'm gonna red flag now he's like time out. No, No,
you're a little too cocky there. I would bet a
lot of money that if we had let's say twenty
reps and you lined up and he got to press

(31:20):
you there is you would not get two feet off
the off the line of scrimmage.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
What is the average play four to six seconds, so
I'd get probably three seconds to get off the ball.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Maybe. Jalen Ramsey's also I mean, what are you like,
five ten, five eleven, yeah, five ten, Jalen rams He's
like six two, he's long arms, he's tough. You no
chance zero. There might be some guys that you could
do that against. He would not be one of them,
that's I mean, yeah fair. I mean, he's probably like
a borderline Hall of Famer who's like one of more

(31:51):
physical corners. He is, but he's getting older.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
I mean, I guess it's tough to guard some of
these receivers like who do you have to guard the
other night?

Speaker 1 (31:57):
And he got yeah, Jamar Chase talk what an intro
to the Uh.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
But speaking of speaking of people with no chance, Uh,
let's get let's dive into it. Coaching chaos, A bunch
of college football got burning six pack questions college football,
Let's get into it, speaking of some guys that are
now in the hot seat.

Speaker 1 (32:19):
Never thought Billy Naper was gonna get fired. You thought
he was gonna get fired last year.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
They kept him another year they beat Mississippi State big man.
Pick the players around and around him, you think, hey,
maybe he lives to see another week he gets fired.
So first question, hot seat? Watch who's gonna be next?
Hugh Freeze's names thrown around like Norvell of Florida State,
Brian Kelly, Luke Fickle, Like what in your mind? Who's

(32:44):
on the hot Who's on the hot seat next to
get fired? In this collegetball carousel?

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Why I was watching, uh, the pregame for Ole miss
Maybe it was on social media, It might have been
on TV and it was lane kipping a couple hours
before the game, walking out when they were playing Georgia
and Jimmy Sexton has hard got a miss. I mean,
he's you know, his body shape is pretty distinct, and
he obviously is the most powerful man in college football.

(33:11):
And I think one thing that he's done, because he
represents anyone who makes any decent size of money, is
he's made this pretty complicated and firing guys like Brian Kelly.
For example, when Brian Kelly signed his contract whatever four
years ago, it was fully guaranteed like ninety five million dollars,
so it's it's just really difficult to fire him. Same

(33:32):
thing with Mike Norvell. I think it's over fifty million
dollars now. I had to tap out on Saturday, like
I'm not going to watch Florida State Stamford. But when
I woke up and saw that Florida when I went
to bed, I was looking on my phone and it
was like, I don't know, thirteen to six or maybe
it was the final score, maybe it was going into

(33:53):
the second half. And I was pretty shell shocked when
I woke up and they had lost. So it's like,
you can't lose to Stanford if you're Florida State, But
can they afford to pay them fifty plus million? Because
that's I saw Urban Meyer say this the other day
is it's not just firing the guy to go away,
even if you can pay him incrementally over the course

(34:13):
of like five years. If you're Florida State, you want
to hire the next you know, Brian Kelly, Lincoln Riley, whoever.
That guy costs a lot of money and that I
just think this stuff's really really complicated, the Hugh Freeze.
They're losing these crazy games like that. They are not
They're a good example, Like they're not that bad. Like
Florida State's worse than Auburn. Like I watch Auburn play

(34:36):
like they're in these games with Georgia. They're in this
game with Miszoo, they're losing in overtime. The place is rocking.
They're losing to Stanford. So you could argue Florida like
Mike Norvel back to back years. They haven't won an
ACC game in two years, right, two years? Yeah, and
the ACC is not that good. It's not like, hey,
you know, look who they're losing to. I mean, Stanford

(34:59):
just fired their coach six months ago. Stanford's terrible. Stanford's terrible.
So I don't know, I mean, I would guess you Freeze.
I think a lot of people assume Brian Kelly, but
I'm actually not that confident. I saw T Bob, who
works for barstool now, but he's he used to have
a show here on the volume with Aaron Murray. He's

(35:20):
a big LSU guy right played at LSU, and he
kind of went on this rant like whatever happened to you? Hey, Brian,
we're paying you ninety five million dollars, how about you
figure this out. We've seen you in ten eleven twelve games.
You know this is not like we treat it like
you cut a guy in training camp, like just get
rid of him. It's not that easy. And listen, maybe

(35:42):
Brian Kelly is not clearly Nick Saban or urban Meyer,
but like, how is he worse now than he was
at Notre Dame when it should be way easier to
get way sweeter players in at Notre Dame or in
the LSU. And how's his offensive line so bad? Like
that's like what he hung offensive line running game? And
you watch it LSU, like what is going on? So

(36:05):
I would guess he gets more time. I would say,
obviously Hugh Freeze and those other two guys, like it
wouldn't shock me at all if they survive just based
on money. James Franklin had been there eleven years. You know,
it's not I think we talked about James Franklin like
he got fired overnight. He had been there a long time, right.
He took the job back when Bill O'Brien got hired.

(36:25):
The Texas Mike.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Norvell is interesting because you mentioned the fifty million dollar
I think is I think his buyouts actually seventy six million.
I think it's one of the highest buyouts, and the
entire staff as a whole one hundred million dollars. But
you watch Florida State, and to your point about Auburn,
Auburn's at least live in these games. They have NFL
talent Keldric Felk, Cam Coleman, Eric Singleton, They got guys
on either side. But Auburn, like LSU, their offensive linemen

(36:51):
are horrible and they also have been poorly recruited at
the quarterback position. Jackson are holding onto the ball probably
longer than anybody on Earth. He's probably still holding onto
the ball as we speak in the pocket. And to
his credit, the offensive line has been horrible. But I
agree with you. I think Hugh Freeze but Hugh Freeze
is kind of the same situation of BILLI Napier where

(37:11):
if you're Auburn, Okay, yes, the referees are helping you
out a little bit. But if we go through the
same cycle once again with all this talent that we've
invested in the poll or straight into high school recruiting,
Like what if next year for Auburn they have the
same exact type of you know, pattern or same type
of like problems or issues going on.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Then they're in the situation with Florida where we're like,
oh shit, like we're screwed. Yeah, I mean, I think
that some of these programs they're all holding themselves up
to basically Nick Saban and Urban Meyer, and that's just
not realistic anymore. It's gonna be much more fickle year
to year. Now, I can't listen Hugh Freeze, the guy

(37:51):
that right was posting about God and then sleeping with
the prostitutes in my computers. Okay, I get some of
these guys the South confused. Clearly, a lot of people
think highly of him as an offensive mind. Right, that's
his thing, Right, He's an offensive quote unquote guru, just
like Brian Kelly is a offensive line running game guru. Like,

(38:13):
that's kind of what they hung their hat on and
it's not working. I think that's where that you have
these concerns. But he was also like battling cancer or something.
A lot going on there. I just think you miss
on these quarterbacks. Look at Mike Norvel, He's basically treated
Florida State like the Washington back when they were the

(38:34):
Redskins with Daniel Snyder used to treat free agency. They
thought they could just buy a team. That's not really
how football works. Like when you look at Nick Saban's
great teams or Urban Myers great teams, it was pretty organic.
Even Ohio State, like last year, most of those guys
were homegrown guys. Now, you can't the transfer portal. You
definitely can supplement at a guy here or there, but

(38:57):
like the best teams in the country, like how many
guys at Oregon are guys they recruited, you know, at
Georgia a lot of these are homegrown guys, And I
think just buying your whole team is not gonna work.
Look at Lane last year, wasn't he called the transfer
portal King and it kind of it didn't work. Texas
Tech's a good example. Like obviously their roster is pretty

(39:19):
loaded individually, like position by position, they're spending twenty eight
million dollars. They bought their whole team. They got into
a little adversity on the road and they kind of crumbled.
Now maybe that would happen anyway if you had a
homegrown team, but it's I do think you can't just
pass up recruiting, like the old school way of recruiting

(39:39):
high school kids. And Hugh Free is a good example,
like Sam Jackson Arnold and I think they gave him
millions of dollars, which pretty nuts. And same with same
with Florida State. They signed Bill O'Brien's I don't want
to say trash. I mean he was a decent player
for him, but didn't he kind of like quit on
the team. They benched them like it isn't one of

(40:02):
the big stories right now coming out of Florida State.
As guys have tuned them out, well, of course they
just they showed up like six months ago. You think
you're tuning out Kirby Smarter, Ryan Day or they've known
you since you were like fifteen years old. You have
a strong relationship with them and I think sometimes the
transfer portal when you just try to buy a team
at that level, right, some teams don't have a choice,
But like when you are viewing yourself as a top five,

(40:25):
top ten program, I think it can really bite you
in the ass. And that's I think that's what Dabo
would say. Now, Dabo can't even beat SMU anymore, so
he's got bigger problems. But I do think there's got
to be some bound I would if I were the
top programs, I would spend so much time on high
school recruiting and then try to supplement a couple guys

(40:47):
here and there, and no, it gets very risky, very fast,
and they hit I think one of the issues for novel,
he hit home runs with like three guys, right, Jared
Verse from Albany, Fisk I think was from like Wake Forest,
and Keon Coleman was from Michigan State. And those three

(41:07):
guys are you know, high end starters in the NFL. Well,
Keon Coleman still got some work to do, but he
was high draft pick for a reason and they've just
tried to find that again and it just doesn't really work.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, And I think for Jordan Travis, he stayed home grown,
so they had success from a guy that's been in
the program for a couple of years and that learned
to develop where Auburn and Florida State, you're kind of
taking a chance on film, but you don't know if
the cohesion is gonna be there. You don't know if
he's gonna play up to the standard.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
And even with.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Arnold, you knew he was bad at Oklahoma, and I
guess bo Nicks was.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Bad at Auburn.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
But with will Stein and what Dan Lenning was built
and what they had built around him, the transition was easy.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
But with Jackson Arnold, it just has it. And that's
where I think for Auburn.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Auburn fans are kind of puzzled and they're confused and
they're like, why is this happening again? It's like I
could have told you that in the offseason when you
signed Jackson Arnold, So you're I think you're right. I
think another coach, what do you make of Brian Kelly
because they're kind of stuck in this ten million dollar
extension and I think his issue is he needs to
adapt to I know you had Josh Payton talking about

(42:10):
he needs to adapt to the Louisiana culture and maybe
needs to change things internally. But he's kind of one
of those egotistic guys. I mean, you see the Notre
Dame helm in the back. He wanted he wanted it
his way. He doesn't want to do it any other
way because he thinks his way is the only way.
And last year they spent a lot of money, number
one portal class, all this returning production, and they got
a home game against Texas A and M. They're gonna

(42:32):
have a bunch of angry Cajun fans. They lose that game,
and you got at Alabama, you got at Oklahoma.

Speaker 1 (42:38):
Moving on, you're eight and four, seven and five.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
It's like, do we have that conversation for LSU, But
like who do you go out and get?

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Do you try to change internally? That situation seems like
more of a blunder than all the other situations. Well,
I think I do support the Louisiana contingent that many
people would say can be a little crazy. It's one
thing if Alabama's better than you, and it's one thing
if Georgia is better than you. Because when Brian Kelly arrived,
those programs were better than him. Vanderbilt has now passed LSU.

(43:08):
I mean, they kicked the shit out of them. I
watched every snap of that game that the final score
did not indicate what I watched. Pavia was running all
over them. Their offensive line I saw was it Gruden
or Baldy or or someone posted some clips that their
offensive line was destroying LSU. Now it turns out I

(43:29):
think they got some high end offensive lineman. But still,
and if Vandy Lane passed LSU like two years ago,
so it's like we've been passed by Old Miss and
now we're passed by Vanderbilt. What are we doing? Because
obviously Alabama and Georgia ahead of us, So that's a problem.

(43:49):
And I don't know if LSU played Texas this year,
obviously Texas is a better program, you would say, big picture,
you know, once they get this art situation figured out.
So I think if you or LSU, you go, how
did this happen? You know? Even if you know when
Brian was hired, it's like, well, is he actually a
national championship winning coach? And I think you could obviously

(44:11):
have had that argument, though I think the games he
lost when he was at Notre Dame to Alabama, like
they have a better team, but that what he did
at Notre Dame was pretty impressive and now what he's
doing at LSU is kind of the opposite. It feels
like it's getting worse. And I don't know if he's
hired the wrong coaches because at the end of the day,
you know, he's a CEO head coach, right, He's not.

(44:31):
Like in theory, it feels like the offense is his baby,
but like, whoever his offensive coordinator is has the juice,
and obviously defensively he is very behold in. Whoever that
guy isn't for the most part, his hier defensive coordinator
last two years was good. But yeah, I think that
that like Ole Miss once, Ole Miss beat him again,

(44:52):
It's like, Okay, Lane's better than him, which is, yeah,
Lane's a better coach. Everyone would hire a Lane over him.
I guess you could live with that, though, if you're
an LSU fans, like, well, why don't we just fire
him and hire Lane? Then if Florida's gonna why wouldn't
we just get Lane? And who knows, maybe Lane would
not be interested in LSU. It's like, let's go to
Florida or nothing. Or go to you know, school like that.

(45:12):
Maybe he wants to Miami, Florida state, would rather be
in that state than Louisiana. But once Vanderbilt and Clark
Lee are working you, that to me is like I
can't if I was a fan, I wouldn't even be
able to take him seriously anymore. And A and M
last year. Now this game is in Louisiana, but remember
that was like I remember watching that here right behind

(45:33):
me on the couch and LSU was kicking their ass.
I was like, God, no, smier, this guy looks like
the number one pick. Second half, I think Marcel Reid
came into the game, and I don't think LSU's ever
recovered from that game. They haven't quite because at that
for that half, you're like LSU's really good. And then
ever since it's just I mean, are they are they
gonna end up going eight and four, because that's what

(45:53):
it feels like, eight, seven and five. And it's like
you go back to back years and even the year
you had Jaden with those two white receivers, like you
went nine and three like that. You look back You're like,
how did we LSU batle on defense? That's what doesn't
make sense. They always have defensive linement, they always have
DB's name drop. I was just I sent John Schneider
a text just like, man, your team, you're crushing it.

(46:16):
And then he's like, yeah, we got that at the
Houston defense is no joke. I'm like, yeah, Stingley's pretty good,
you know. I mean that guy Will Anderson is pretty good.
But that's like what I think, Bam LSU. I think
Will Anderson Stingley. I'm watching LSU. It's like where are
your height? Where are your impact? Guys? And you just
wonder like does he not have a great feel for uh?

(46:39):
I don't know. Clearly something's off. There's no disputing that.
It's just not working right, Like James Franklin didn't work
because like something about him in the big games, right,
but no one ever argued like his team was loaded. Right.
It's like that guy could recruit and it's why if
Auburn hires him at Florida hires them, like the team
will be loaded. It's just like in game the thing

(47:01):
with Brian Kelly, It's like, what's he gonna be like
recruiting these kids down the SEC and just watching you like,
I don't sums off. I'm not trying to pretend like
I'm Rivals dot com number one user here, but I
watch enough football to know, like I know what SEC
guys look like, and he's been lapped by you know,
I mean Clark Lee and that GM of his in Vanderbilt. Uh, Like,

(47:24):
if if you had to buy, like if you were
just program X and you could have anyone, you wouldn't
even hesitate going in on those guys over Brian Kelly
in his operation, which would have been unheard of to
say out loud.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Like three years ago, we should have known that Brian
Kelly was gonna go downhill when he faked that Southern
accent at that PEP rally or when he was dancing
with that recruit, Like, I feel like once you saw that,
we should.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Have known it was going downhill for LSU. I mean yeah,
I mean I do think you have to do cheesy
shit though in recruiting, like I do.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
I'm not as bothered by it talks and stuff to
kind of get those high score recruits and stuff.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
But I don't know. He's kind of older.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
But to your point, with their defensive issues, I think
A and M is gonna beat him again, and I
think LSU fans are going to be livid because, just
like last year with am M and Marcel Reid, the
game that basically exposed their defense, Blake Baker can't stop
a mobile quarterback and they paid him as the highest
paid assistant in college football. You saw what Diego Pavia
did to them last week. They couldn't get, you know,

(48:25):
the defense off the field. They just had eleven play
eleven minute drives against LSU. That same thing's gonna happen
and for and to kind of turn the perspective a
little bit as we get into Florida and Penn State,
they're kind of looking for their next head coach to
have a quick turnaround, a guy that's been talked about
in these discussions that's gonna face off against LSU's Mike Elko.
What Mike Elko's done in year two at A and

(48:47):
m if he goes into Brian Kelly in Death Valley
and beats them and they're undefeated, they're one game away
last year from the SEC Championship, and they're in prime
position again to make the SEC Championship in a playoff
spot in year two. That's if I'm an LSU fan,
I'd be pretty pissed off the fact that A and
M and sure they have more money, but the LSU brand,
I would think in the SEC would be a lot

(49:08):
higher than what Texas A and M is.

Speaker 1 (49:11):
And maybe we need to change our perspective. I mean
we've always said pre nil A and M A was
like a sleeping giant, right, it was like this could
be something. I always thought that on a lower level,
like how is Fresno State good? And San Diego State sucks?
Like how could Pat Hill, Jim Sweeney, Jeff Tedford all

(49:32):
these guys build this NFL program in Fresno yet San
Diego State is a laughing stock? And on a higher level,
it was always like A and M, A and M.
And now that you can pay players, I mean look
at Tech and A and M. Like those guys, if
you were Elko or Joey maguire, why would you leave
either one of those jobs? Like what do you need?
What budget you need to pay the players? What do
you need blank check? It's like I don't think LSU

(49:55):
has that, So yeah, I mean I think I think
there's and Sam blows them out, you know, wins by
twenty plus points, then all of a sudden, you're like,
what the fuck are we doing? The problem is financially.
It does feel like ultimately the Bama conversation just kind
of died because it's like, oh yeah, Kaitlyn debor weird
game Alabama. Everyone was right to freak out like that

(50:18):
was a weird game. But he's an ass kicker, and
I saw that. You know that. You see they're like
making fun of the sweatshirt now because forever it was
like he didn't dress up and Saban did, and now
he's kicking ass and everyone loves a sweatshirt and it's
all you got to do. In the SEC. It's the
thing I love about it the most. The Big ten
is a little there's other stuff at play sometimes, right

(50:40):
the way you act talk about academics, it's just the
universities operate a little differently. Right that there is a
i don't know, an intellectual arrogance to Michigan to Washington
to UCLA. In the SEC, no one gives a shit
about anything about wins and losses. You know, now, Ideally

(51:01):
Saban's the best example. He was like presidential and he
was also like the greatest coach of all time. But
you can be like laying Kiffin shirt off with a
couple of babes hot yoga. If you win eleven games,
that's all they care about. So like you talk about
the accent, the TikTok, if Brian Kelly was winning eleven

(51:21):
games in the SEC champ, no one would care. No
one would care. Like Billy Napier, he just sucked. Like
I looked at his record today at the gym the
other day and they put up like the three coaches.
It's like Dan Mullen and Jim mcewaine, like those guys
were kind of having some success and then he just
started losing. Like he didn't get fired because it's a

(51:42):
bad guy, because it a weirdo, because you couldn't. It's
just because he didn't win enough. And I think it's
just it's the SEC is the closest thing in the
NFL that way, nothing else matters beside wins and losses.
And I would throw like Florida State kinda is like
that too. It's why there are people are I mean
if they if money was an issue, Mike nor Reel
would have been fired a couple of days ago. Hell,
he might have been fired like two weeks ago. But

(52:04):
money is an issue now for some of these programs,
and in fairness, it's a lot of money. I mean,
pay a guy fifty sixty seventy million dollars to go
away is pretty insane. I mean, no one in the
NFL has ever been paid that much to leave beside
a player, it feels like nowadays.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
And Nick Saban talked about this too, about how fan
bases have more power than ever because most of those
people in the fan bases are nil boosters and they're
the ones funding the money and they're funding the roster.
But to your point, what if Texas Tech spends twenty
eight million dollars and they're three and five or they're
three and four, Texas Tech would be going at Y
Joey maguire like they're going at Brian Kelly, like he'd

(52:44):
be done, he'd be done, be done.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Yeah, So how do you?

Speaker 2 (52:47):
I mean, it's like the scientific experiment we're seeing right
now in college football. And we'll get into like this
next question about is Florida or Penn State a better
job and that kind of like is in a line
of what I was talking about, how both both fan
bases are pissed off they want to win because both have,
especially Florida DJ Lagway, they're sweet running back, two stud freshman,

(53:08):
five star wide receivers. You invest all this money in,
you don't get a lot of wins. Then players get
angry you don't play for the head coach. They transfer.
So my question to you for the second one is
is Florida or Penn State a better job? And then
kind of talk about who are some intriguing candidates to
you for both positions.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Well, let's just talk about, like forever part of the
reason the guy would go from San Diego State to Michigan, right,
Or Urban Meyer, Utah to Florida. Or when I was
at President State, Pat Hill would interview for PAC twelve
jobs because you've got a huge race, right, And even
like you would leave in conference for USC's coordinator, Danton

(53:47):
Lynn left Ucla to USC because they like doubled his money. Well,
all the top jobs, at least the top let's say
ten fifteen to twenty jobs pay a ton Like Lane
Kiffin makes ten eleven million dollars, right, Signetti just got
paid eleven, So there is no difference of pay for
Lane Kiffin or Brian Kelly or Marcus Freeman to move around.

(54:12):
So money now has no factor, especially if they're like
we're willing to pay your staff, We're willing to pay
you know, your roster. The money at the top the
top guys is relatively even, So it's much more about,
like what are the expectations. I'd argue Penn State is
much worse than Florida, just based on James Franklin has
been winn ten eleven games, He's been in the top ten.

(54:32):
It feels like most years he was just runner up.
I guess he lost in the final four, but he
was a couple of plays away from being in the
in the finals. Right, he was beating Notre Dame, like
he ran a really good program, producing a ton of
top draft picks. Like he was crushing everything except winning
the national championship and beating Ohio State. Right, and in

(54:54):
the Harbaugh version of Michigan, I think he would probably
beat this version and Sharon more. But I think Florida's expectations,
while they are high, you were getting in kind of
on the ground floor. They've been really bad. You know,
if you won nine games in twenty twenty, what's twenty five?

(55:14):
So by twenty seven, Lane Kiffen went nine and three,
That'd be a pretty big deal. If you went nine
and three at Penn State, people would like, what are
we doing? So you could argue, just based on the
expectations and based on the previous success, the standard is
pretty low at Florida. I mean, the expectations inferior are high,
but like they haven't sniffed being good in a while

(55:36):
relative to the conference Penn State. They were in the
conference championship last game or last year against Oregon. I mean,
now you could argue that part of the reason is
Ohio State blew the game to Michigan. So it's like
were they they weren't one of the two best teams
in the conference because Oregon had kicked their ass and
obviously Ohio State had beating them in Penn State if
I remember correctly. But still like James, we can nitpick

(56:01):
him a relative to like save in Kirby Smart Ryan Day,
but he was the top of that next tier. Florida
would die for him to be in that tier. Right
if Billy Napier was in that tier, he would not
be fired. James Franklin was fired because he just couldn't
get out of that tier. So they view themselves right
or wrong, Like we should be Oregon, Ohio State and

(56:24):
the Harbaugh version of Michigan's equal, and we're willing to
spend for it. But that is like I'm trying to think,
let's say Matt Rule or Signette had gone there, like
your expectations would be, like you should be in the
final four every year, and I don't you know, it's hard.
I mean it's Ohio State right now is clearly the

(56:44):
best run program in the country, and Oregon is really
high up there, top three or four. So it's like
that's and if USC continues to spend money, they're clearly
on the come. Notre Dame is not going away. So
you just look at that region. You know, I don't
know if Sharon Moore is good enough or not, but
if he's not, they'll replace him with someone sweet. So

(57:08):
it's really really hard. I'd argue Florida's dramatically better job
than Penn State based on all that factor.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
So are you pretty you're pretty set on Florida going
after Lane Kiffin? Penn State's interesting because you mentioned Matt Rule.
Obviously you wanted to go for Signetti he signed that extension.
I think the most intriguing part about all this coaching
movement and stuff is the guys that are out there
alma maters like Clark Lee's Name's thrown out a lot,
Brent Key's Name's thrown out a lot. And I've been

(57:50):
looking back, there's not a lot of Maybe today there's
more money than ever in college football, but there hasn't
really been a guy that's left his alma mater for
a bigger job. You think that could happen out of
all these other jobs, or you think Penn State just
I feel like Penn State's just going to hire some
random person because I feel like they're going to go
after all these people. And you and may have talked
over and over about this. With the calendar of the

(58:11):
playoff schedule, most of the top coaches that you can
maybe poach at of those lower tier the Vanderbilts, the
Georgia Tech or even if you're Forida this weekend, you're
hoping all miss loses so they don't make the playoff.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Like that whole situation with.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
The early signing day and the portal window being in January,
it just seems like a blunder and kind of like
a disadvantage for the Penn States in the Floridas that
they want to go after and poach those coaches.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
And I think part of it, like if you hired
Clark Lee and Brent Key are bad examples because it'd
be pretty impressive what they've done. But Matt Rule is
a good example. It's like, well, why is Matt Rule
any different than James Franklin? And if anything, it's like,
where's Matt Rule proven? Then he can recruit at the
level of James Franklin. So it's going to be very
hard for Penn State to make a hire and be

(58:57):
like this is incredible. Right could have said it's Signetti
and I would be I would say it'd be hard
to not be excited if Penn State had pulled off
hiring Signetti. But yeah, I mean I listen. I I
think sometimes we talk about the like where you went
to school and coaching there, like part of it for

(59:18):
Clark Lee and Brent Kee, like that was the best
job they could get at the time. There obviously is connection,
but that was if you're forty forty five years old,
that's twenty twenty five years ago. So the guy, like
most of the people that were there when you are
long gone, and most of these coaches besides like Pat
Fitzgerald or Mike Gundy, have bounced around, right, I bet

(59:38):
if we I don't know where else Clark Lee is coach,
but he had probably been at a bunch of different
places before he comes back. It's a very nomadic prefession profession. Plus,
I think that like we have seen a lot of
examples of if it starts going the other way, they
will fire you immediately. You know, Cliff Kingsbury, see ya,

(01:00:00):
Pat Fitzgerald, who like Northwestern more than any human ever.
You know, things got a little weird with that the
hazing thing, and they fired him without hesitation. So I
think it's kind of a cutthrow job. You know, these coaches,
you got to be very conditionally loyal because it can change.
For there aren't many Nick Sabans or Bobby Bowden's, you know,

(01:00:23):
or the kind of the rope Kirby Smart has. Things
just get weird and you become a you know a
product of your own success and the expectations that you created.
You see Dabbo battling with this now in fairness, like
Dabbo and watch your team is pretty terrible. Like it's
like what are they supposed to say? But it's like
it's more fickle now. It can happen randomly, And I

(01:00:45):
do wonder if you're at Vanderbilt, for example, like you
kind of got to strike when the iron's hot, same thing,
you know. I think Signetti would say, it's like, well,
I've had two years, two different quarterbacks and different core
group of guys. Now, I guess there's there's some carry
over still. But he lost his quarterback, he lost some
other guys to the draft. He's pretty confident that he
can do it. I think if you're Clark Lee, you know,

(01:01:06):
are you gonna be able to maintain this at Vanderbilt
would be way rich more likely in Indiana that he
can be a competitive eight to ten win team on
a yearly basis than Vanderbilt be consistently like in the
playoff mix, I think would you agree with that?

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Yeah, because I mean Pave is a super senior. He's
the heart and soul of that team. Haynes King's a
super senior. He's the heart and soul of Georgia Tech.
Both those guys, they give them ball like fifteen times
a game, or running through tackles or get a hit
a bunch of times like those are the heart and
souls of each team.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
That's the reason why.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Their programs are both top ten programs in college football,
which is still weird to me. But to your point
about Clark Lee strike when the Irons hot, that's not
to the level of this, but that was like when
Caitlyn de Borr left Washington Alabama, and I thought he
was gonna do it because Pennix was gone, a lot
of returning production, all these senior guys that led him
to the national championship were leaving, so that was kind

(01:01:57):
of his way out. So for Clark Lee and Brent
Keaty your point, yeah, like they have an emotional tie
because that's their alma mater. But how realistically is it
for them to make the playoff next year or be
at the caliber or what they're at, especially with the
Vanderbilt and Georgia Tech that, let's face it, maybe the
NIL boosters weren't expecting this gred of a season from
those two schools. So I think it's I think it's

(01:02:19):
an interesting kind of scenario and an interesting kind of
topic in today's you know, college football about those guys
that are attacked.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I do think is a good example is in no
World nil pre nil the fifties twenty twenty five, is
Washington never a better job than Alabama football? And I
think that gets the case that if you know, I'd
have to look at Clark Lee's background. But let's say
Auburn and let's say Brian Kelly's fired as well, and

(01:02:48):
both those two programs offer Clark lead the job. I
think you could argue he's pretty nuts if he doesn't
seriously consider it, right. I get he's loyal. The one
thing you have going for him, and he'd know this
better than us on the outside. Is like the nil
world with some of these smaller cities where these baton

(01:03:13):
rouge or you know, some of these programs that aren't
in bigger cities like I better know the boosters have
an unwilling uh, a willingness to just open the wallet constantly.
And maybe Nashville they can tap into some of the
corporations around there that it's not dependent on like former alumni,
Like not everywhere is going to have like this Texas

(01:03:34):
Tech situation where this former offensive lineman hits a bunch
of honey holes and then goes becomes a multi billion
ere and just writes an unlimited check, so that that
has to factor in. But I'm watching Auburn at night,
going god. I mean they've been They've won a national
championship with cam they got back in another game when
who they Oh they lost to Florida State. So it's

(01:03:56):
like that and that was during the saving era. So
I don't know, man, I think you got to be
very careful. And they're in a profession where you got
to be willing to move. I mean that's part of
the deal, right for most of us, Like, yeah, you're
making nine million dollars, you're happy where you are, why
would you leave? But that's not Football is very fickle
that way, and you gotta be careful because, like you said,

(01:04:20):
you strike with the irons high, you get the special quarterback.
Maybe the I would say this year for Vanderbilt, they're
like beating and playing against a good team. It's not
like they're just beating up on Mississippi State every week.
I mean, they were right there with Bama for most
of that game. They just worked LSU. Who they played
this week, Missouri. I mean if they beat Missouri, they

(01:04:42):
mean they might just be a playoff team. That'd be impressive. Yeah,
I think you missoo Vanderbilt.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
You're right, whoever wins that game is going to be
in a good position for the college fotball playoff.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
But see that's a good example. Is Eli right, Like
he's another guy? How good is Missouri? Right a relative
to some of these other jobs, Like if Lane turns
it down and they offer him the job, like you
just you can't there not Florida from Missouri. I mean,
that's that's that's crazy. And he's already proven, like the

(01:05:14):
running back he got from Louisiana, Monroe or whatever, Like,
you're gonna be able to do that Florida, no problem.
And they already have Like the one thing in Florida's
gonna have is a pretty good roster in theory, I
guess these guys, I mean who knows. I mean ten
of them could quit over the next couple of weeks,
right and just be like I'm not risk getting injured.
I'm gonna go in the portal at season's end. So

(01:05:37):
it's it's a little more fickle now. I've seen a
lot of people like the Andy Staples of the world,
like this roster's loaded. Well yeah, today, I mean who
these guys. I can't imagine the dms for Florida's starting defense.
What it looks like. They're there their phones like I mean,
the texts are getting from Kirby from Lane, like these
guys from Ryan Day there's I mean they are how

(01:06:02):
many guys at Florida would start all over the country.
I mean they have to be inundated with people fucking
hitting them up, making them offers starting December first or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
You talk about Eli Drinkwitz, would he be kind of
your the question I have for you? What coaches are
wild cards to either get fired or to leave.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
For another job?

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Him being one I know we talked about before. It's
been a little quiet because they haven't been in the primetime.
Like Dabo is still interesting because the fan base obviously
still angry at him for a disappointing season, and maybe
he's fed up with it and says, I want to
go to Arkansas or maybe Florida coaches in or maybe
Penn State.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
There's some other wildcard coaches that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
You got your eye on that are like okay, like
maybe they could go somewhere else.

Speaker 1 (01:06:42):
See the problem is is I would have said, like
three weeks ago that like Dabo should already be working
to go to Florida. If they announced in a month
that Dablo Sweeney was the head coach at Florida that
he just worked something out with Clemson to let him
out of his contract, I feel like Florida fans would
not be happy, which is crazy, but they would go,

(01:07:03):
what the hell's been going on with this guy the
last couple of years? So I think part of that
and I wonder how much these ads and these boosters
worry about the reaction. Right you could argue, if you're Florida,
the only guy you could hire to get like universal
excitement would be Lang Kevin, because if you ended up
with Dabbo, if you ended up Eli, Drinkwitz is really impressive.

(01:07:26):
I don't know if like and could be a home
run higher, but are people doing cartwheels down the street
if that's announced? You know, James Franklin, What is Florida
just announced tomorrow We've hired James Franklin. I feel like
the reaction on their Reddit boards wud be like what
even though they would die to be what James Franklin

(01:07:46):
has done. That's a huge part of college football is
there aren't many guys you can hire that aren't named
like Nick Saban or Urban Meyer that aren't getting you
universal excitement, and just because you get universal excitement. We
saw with Lincoln Riley when they hired him from Oklahoma
at USC, they couldn't have been happier, and four years
later they're like, what is going on? You know? I

(01:08:06):
think Brian Kelly's a pretty good example. When LSU hired him,
people were excited, but it was like conditional excitement, kind
of excited, kind of uneasy, but like, oh, this should work.
He's pretty solid, so they turned on him really quick.
So I think the I this is really hard, you know,
Matt Rule, if Penn State hired him or people gonna

(01:08:28):
be excited.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Can I throw a name out at you, Jeff Brohm Louisville?
Would that bring any intrigue to a Florida or I
know it's not the sexiest name, but him beating Miami.
What he's done with quarterbacks the last couple of years,
from Jack Plumber to Tyler Schuck to Miller Moss. They
always win ten games, like they're always relevant, They're upsetting opponents,

(01:08:50):
Like I think his record's like insane in terms of
against a top twenty five team that but he's another
and he's another guy in that equation, in that circle
of the rant keys of the clark Lees that are
former alma mater guys.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
So would it be tough for him to leave? I
have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
A lot of these guys that talk about their alma
maters are like Kenny Dillingham. But Kenny Dilleham says he's
not gonna leave. I believe him.

Speaker 1 (01:09:12):
But I also could see him go on and.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Go to Penn State, which is the amount of money
that he offers, and how would that you change his
coaching career?

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
But what do you make of like Jeff Brohm? I
would say, Jeff Brohm historically is exactly the guy that
a good program and a good ad would want to hire.
He's fifty four years old. He's been a head coach
now since twenty fourteen at Western Kentucky eight and five,
twelve and two, ten and three. Then he goes to Purdue,

(01:09:41):
which I think we'd all agree is not a good program.
His last year at Perdue he was eight and five,
the year before that he was nine and four, So
his last two years he won fifteen games. Then at
Louisville ten wins, nine wins, and now five and one.
He is a former NFL quarterback right He was undrafted
guy in the ninety played in the NFL off and

(01:10:02):
on as like a backup third stringer for a long time.
He's a quarterback guy. He's an offensive guy. Kind of
just kicked Miami's ass. You know, wasn't Miami coming off
of bye Yeah? Yeah, after being four the state? Yeah,
I mean dominated him. So I don't think listen, he's
not like it feels like Lane's in his own little

(01:10:25):
island of being the sexy higher no one else feels
sexy and that that doesn't matter. In the pros. It
does matter a little bit, like when John Schneider hired
Mike McDonald. You know, he's kind of boring. He's not
gonna give you great sound bites. A lot of NFL
coaches are not like Dan Campbell. They're pretty boring. Hires
Brian Schottenheimer, people like what's up with this idiot? College

(01:10:46):
is a lot about pizzazz. And you know, when Auburn
hired Hugh Freeze, and I'm not saying that's the right thing,
but it does kind of matter, And I think Jeff
Brahm twenty years ago. With his resume, I think we'd
be talking about him like he's the number one coaching
candidate not name Lane Kiffin on the market. But it
does feel like he's kind of an afterthought. Like if

(01:11:07):
I'm if I'm Penn State, I think I'd be all over.
I mean, he's he's worked at he's worked in the conference,
had success, he's worked at a little school, and now
he's at Louisville. I think he'd be a no brainer.
But I think if I said, hey, Penn State has

(01:11:28):
hired Jeff brom do you think people would be happy
at Penn State.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Probably not at first, but I think it because he's
a kind of a sneaky, underrated guy in terms of
the transfer portal.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
I mean, looking at his resume, I agree, maybe they are.
Maybe they end up hiring him. I'd hired Jeff Brown
before I hired Matt Ruhle. Yeah. Yeah. Now he's not
an outspoken guy like Matt Role is.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Matt Role's got a podcast and he's definitely got like
the image of to your point earlier talking about Brian
Kelly and having to do kind of.

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
Those cheesy things that's what Matt Rule will do and
it works.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
But he also is the same guy that lost to
Minnesota on a Friday night where that same Friday night.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Broms beating Miami number two.

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Miami, well you and me talked about is one of
the most complete teams in college football, and you look
back at Miami and you got question marks and now
Miami and I'm even might not even.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
Make the ACEC Championship game because of that game with Louisville.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Speaking of another guy that got fired, James Frankly, we
talked about him earlier. Do you think James frank will
land a head coaching job in twenty twenty six? Do
you think he'll aim at We mentioned Florida, but realistically
Arkansas is available, Oklahoma State, Virginia Tech, UCLA, Stamford.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
What does your crystal ball say about a guy like
James Franklin. I think I'd be hard pressed if I
was him. And he just said on game day that
he wants to keep coaching, like right now, like he's
ready to win. He's like we plan on a winter
national championships, Like James, let's just pump down the hyperbolic
talk a little bit. You're you're good, You're gonna get
paid a lot of money, but you haven't sniffed a
championship even in your conference. I think I guess he

(01:13:01):
won the Big Ten what back in twenty sixteen, I
I can't you know, you bring up Oklahoma State and
and Virginia Tech. If I'm James Franklin, there's no I
wouldn't even fathom taking one of those jobs. I've seen
his name in the mix for UCLA. James Franklin are
gonna be UCLA after coaching Penn State. Like to me,

(01:13:22):
it's got to be like Auburn would make some sense. Arkansas,
if they financially back him, would make some sense. I
think the SEC jobs. I mean, if I was in
my be all over Florida, you know, I think if
you're Florida you have your sight set on Because I've
heard some people say this, it's like, you know, James
Franklin's a former wide receiver, offensive guy, and his offenses

(01:13:44):
kind of suck. Now he's ultimately like not he's more
like a Syriani. Like it's not like he's calling the place,
but like the offense should be his baby. He's actually
recruited really well on defense. You know, you watch on offense,
You're like, where are the wide receivers on this team?
So it's his offense. He actually is probably more suited
to go to like Auburn or Arkansas and build that

(01:14:04):
type team. He actually builds SEC level teams. Now the
SEC has changed a little bit these last couple of years,
become You watched Georgia Ole miss that looked like a
big twelve game. But my guess would be Auburn, Arkansas,
Like those schools would be out now. I don't know
if he'd take those jobs. He's getting paid so much money,
but I couldn't if I was him. There's no way

(01:14:26):
I could take the Oklahoma State I think Oklahoma State
job is one of the worst jobs in the country.
Virginia Tech starting to feel that way as well. And
when my guy Tim Skipper beats Indiana on Saturday, they're
just gonna have to offer him a contract.

Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
I mean, that's what UCLA has to do, right I mean,
you can't. You can't back away from what you're seeing
with Skipper and newheisl together. Just pay them both. Hey,
here's your checks, and just run with it with UCLA.
But to your point about James Franklin, what would a
job like Because he's been in the Big Ten, it
seems like if he's a guy that wants to get
back into winning, it would be the ACC and Florida
State fans is probably gonna be upset about it. But

(01:15:03):
a guy like James Franklin would come in and relatively
would at least beat Stanford, would at least beat SMU,
would at least beat Pitt and all these teams that
Mike Burvel is leaving. So I guess, to James Franklin's credit,
if an SEC job wouldn't be available, a Florida State
would be intriguing. But again that's another fan base that's
pretty upset right now. The last couple of years, that
program just looks dead.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Also, his like next contract is mitigated by what they
owe him, so like you could pay him four million
dollars and they got to cover the other five or whatever,
So you could actually get James Franklin in theory for
a little cheaper. You can say, hey, we'll pay a
little less, will have Penn State cover some of it,
and will use some of that money to buy your coordinators,

(01:15:46):
to buy your GM to use towards your roster. So
it's actually a pretty big advantage for him. Like he's
getting his money no matter what as a nine to
ten million dollar coach. But Penn State can flip some
of that bill. It happens a ton in the NFL. Right,
I can get a coordinator for half price because another
team's paying part of it. I have to pay him
a threshold. Right, I can't pay him like one hundred

(01:16:07):
grand and they pay the other nine point five. But yeah,
I mean I think I would guess Auburn Arkansas if
you tell me Florida State became available, I could see
him being all over that as well, because they kind
of like, you know, Bobby Bowden, they like a big recruiter.
And I don't know much about Mike Norvel besides it
a couple of years ago I thought he was good.

(01:16:28):
Clearly it's just not going well. But I mean, they
you can't be losing these games like they lack talent.
I mean that's at this point in time. Were a
couple of years ago, they were stacked, and I think
that's part of the transfer portal, you know. And I
think James Franklin, like most of their star players, like
Tyler Warren, Abdual, Carter, Saquon Barkley, Michael Parsons like Homegrown guys,

(01:16:53):
then forty nine are safety gyre Brown like they have
a bunch of dudes all over the league that are
just the two running back. Like Homegrown. You could argue
he needed to supplement a little more in the wide
with the wide receivers, but he definitely can recruit, like identify.
It's like Saban and Kirby's great strength and Ryan Day

(01:17:14):
high school kids because then if they like it, they'll
stay for like three years.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
I think he's got good relationships and good rapport with
his players too, and I know people will kind of
at the end of the day, like we're all human.
You look at a record against his EP top twenty
five or eightp top ten, not great, but the players
respect him. He'll go out and drive. I think he
saw a video a couple of years ago that he
drove to Chop Robinson's draft party and then drove to
another guy that was getting draft I think was lu

(01:17:41):
Fashion News draft party in the same day. So I
get it, like his record stinks, but I think he
could be adaptable in other programs. To your point, I

(01:18:03):
want to go back and talk way preseason, you made
a bull prediction on this very show, the only show
subscribe road to one Hunter K John Gruden you said
would be a head coach in twenty twenty six, and
now with a lot of jobs opening up, it looks
like a guy that not a lot of people are
talking about because a lot of people's focus is in
on college guys that are currently coaching. But do you

(01:18:26):
still feel as if Gruden will be a college head
coach even more now than he did in the preseason?
And then what are some jobs that you think would
be perfect for Gruden?

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
Yeah, I don't. I don't feel as great about it,
Like I wouldn't put money on it as of sitting today.
And part of that is one thing Gruden's always been
good about and this happened forever when he was with
Monday Night Football. Is like you would just hear and
read stories about it. It feels like it's been a little quiet.
Now that could change. He's outspoken, like he wants to

(01:18:56):
do it, but it doesn't like it's a two way
street and forever Fell owners wanted him to me, it's
like do the ads want them? And yeah, I mean
I would say I'm not as strong. I'm definitely. I
feel like Mike McCarthy is more likely to uh be
the coach at like Wisconsin than Gruden is to be

(01:19:16):
the coach at Arkansas. Maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
It'd be interesting to a guy like that that's never
played in and that's never coached in college.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
How would he adapt to the portal?

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
How would he has John Grudden never been on a
home visit in high school? Like those little things to
me where I would love to see Grood in Arkansas.
I think he'd bring a lot of trum. You've been
one of the vibes walmart Tyson. They've got a lot
of nil was just behind him. But in terms of
like the logistics side and college football being an never
lasting cycle, I wonder how he would adapt to the
college football space.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
You don't have to go in as many homes anymore.
That's part of it. So you know, I don't think
Dean Sanders ever been in a home. I actually think
he'd be fine doing that. I think it'd be a
natural skill for him to such a great person out Yeah,
I mean that to me. I wonder if that's a
little overrated where it used to matter more with the

(01:20:07):
money aspect of just like sitting down with the grandparents
talking about life. I still do believe that matters, though,
you know, I think Kirby Smart's doing it, Ryan Day's
doing it. You don't have to do it as many guys,
but I do think when you hone in on your
top five to ten high school kids a year, and
you're probably even doing it now way before, right, you know,

(01:20:28):
you're on these guys now sophomore junior year, but you're
spending a lot of time building a relationship, and I
think that matters. And that's where I think a big
advantage for like Kirby Smart's been in college football for
a long time, Sark's been in college football for a
long time. Lane's been in college football for a long time.
And that would be if I was an ad Like
does Grutin just really want to coach because he just

(01:20:50):
loves football? Which I get it, But like one thing
you're seeing with Belichick is this industry is way different
than the pros, right, develop being a relationship with a
sixteen year old kid kind of sucks. I mean, does
does anyone really want to do it? But it's kind
of what you got to do, Like does Kirby Smart

(01:21:10):
love making the recruiting calls five days, five days a
week and half the fridays of the year going to
high school football games. Hey, he'd probably be rather at
home with his wife having a beer with his kids.
But like, that's part of the reason you make all
this money is to do that. And it's like any
job that any of us have, there are things that

(01:21:31):
come along with it that you don't love, that you
just kind of have to do. And that's one area
in college football where you just wonder, like, like how
much better would Deon be? And he's got like obviously
health issues, but if he was, just think how good
Dion would be sitting at the fucking table having dinner
with people. I mean he would he would probably land

(01:21:53):
way more recruits. I mean that's like his great strength,
you know, it was his personality. But in fairness to him,
he's like, I don't really want to fly to Texas tonight, right,
I don't even blame him, but yeah, it's probably I
just think, like the top guys, you think Dan Lanning
is not doing that, it's like, you know he does.

(01:22:16):
There are probably nights like on his bye week you
think he wants to fly down to LA and have
dinner with three of his top recruits, Like, hey, probably
rather just hang out with his family.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
We all would, yeah him, Marcus Freeman, Kenny Dillingham. Those
are kind of some guys that are killing the recruiting game,
killing the in house visits. But last question for you,
we pivot off of colle or coaches. I should say
the Heisman Watch. Everyone loves the Heisman Trophy. We're approaching
week nine right now. Any guys sit out to you.
I know last year it was kind of more of

(01:22:45):
a non quarterback award because some of the quarterbacks were
kind of ify. This year, our expectations were Arch Manning,
garrettnuss Meyer, club Nick Aller, those guys out of the picture.
But some of the top guys that we've seen in
college football have been pretty impressive, and I think the
award's still wide open. I mean, I'm looking at the
odds right now, Mendoza and Tys Simpson, even Julian saying

(01:23:06):
up plus four hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:23:06):
Which is interesting because it's Ohio State.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
I get it, but you're they're throwing forty two times,
you have an eighty percent completion percentage, against Wisconsin. I
think a lot of quarterbacks are gonna do that against
a poor team. But who in your eyes, you know,
I mean early Heisman talk, not saying that you got
to give a vote, but who's been kind of impressive
to you in college football that deserves the award? Well,
I think the award kind of overrated. I mean, I

(01:23:29):
think I think it used.

Speaker 1 (01:23:30):
To mean more. I think it used to mean more.
But I would say this, if Vanderbilt makes the playoffs
or Indiana is just in the conference championship game, I
have a hard time not giving it to one of
those two guys. Like, nothing against Tys Simpson, he looks unreal.
Most quarterbacks over the course of the last fifteen years
have looked pretty sweet. Nothing against saying he's kicking ass

(01:23:53):
and that team's awesome, Like most people look pretty good,
Ohio State. What these guys are doing in Indiana and
Vanderbilt is pretty incredible. Specifically Pavia, like because now we
have two straight years. Rourke was, I mean, he was
turns out he had Torney sail by the end of
the year, but he was good. Like their offense was good, right,
he was throwing those back like Signette's a good offensive coach,

(01:24:14):
but it does feel like they've gone up a level.
And clearly Mendoza is a better player. I mean, he's
like a high end draft pick and he's I had
a buddy who's a scout at the game against Oregon
and he's like, listen, that interception was bad, but he
bounced right back. That was like really impressive in that environment,
in that place. And you watch Pavia just making play

(01:24:35):
after play because every once in a while, like LSU
would kind of get back in the game, like, hey,
if they can just get a stop like ls you could,
and then he would just pull something out of his Honestly,
it was Johnny Manziel. It was. It's the closest thing
to see we've seen the Johnny because it's like, what
is he doing? I would to me he would get
if we're voting today, I would vote for Diego Pavia. Now,
you know, you get a couple more games, you lose,

(01:24:56):
don't play well. He does that again against Missouri, I
think he's gonna win. I mean if he just keeps
playing like he's been playing, because even against Alabama I
thought he was good. Now again, these defenses, this isn't
like twenty twelve Nick Saban defense on Alabama, but that's
kind of college football. I mean Georgia and Old Miss
was an eye opening experience. I think there was like

(01:25:18):
one punt for ninety percent of the game. I just
think defense is, oh, how State plays it. But most
of these teams to Texas, most teams are not that
good on defense. So it's like, I don't really I
don't have a problem with you know, bigger stats now
and stuff doesn't bother me as much, you know, So
it's just part of the football because forever it was

(01:25:39):
like if you throw a bunch of touchdowns, like, oh,
you're playing the Big twelve. If you're a Texas Tech
or Oklahoma, I'm watching this D two guy go up
against Georgia and slicing dice them to the last five
minutes of the game. So you just great defenses don't
really exist. The offensive expectations are higher, and what Pavia
is doing in the SEC is just he's the most

(01:26:00):
fun player in the league, in the country right now.

Speaker 2 (01:26:02):
I would say, for a course, yeah, I agree, and
people will hate his theatrics or hate his cockiness.

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
I think it brings added storylines to the sport you
mentioned Johnny Manzel, he's giving kind of that mentor towards him,
whether it's good or bad. This a little bull I
a pivot, the he the heisman posed in the end zone,
or like doing the money stuff that like that Pavia does.

Speaker 1 (01:26:23):
I don't know if I'm a huge fan of that.
I guess he. I saw him they they did that
mic up pregame on college game day, and he was
he's I didn't think he was as douchey as the
way people will kind of making fun of him. I
thought he was cool and he was like given Saban credit.
And remember last year Saban talked a bunch of shit
about them. I'd like, what's he gonna say to Nick here, Like,

(01:26:44):
hey Nick, remember what you said about I was expecting
him to say that, and he's like, uh, he's basically
like mister Nick Saban, it's great to finally meet the
goat or something. Well.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
To his credit, he's had a chip on his shoulder
his whole career. I mean, he started a New Mexico Juco,
then he was at New Mexico State, and now he
was here. But but to your point about Vanderbilt, they've
got when we look at their schedule real quick. They
got Missoo this week at Texas against Arch Maanning. You
know it's gonna be a primetime game. Versus Auburn at Tennessee.
I think they're gonna be a playoff team. I think
if they go past to Miszoo, they're gonna have a

(01:27:13):
I mean at Texas, Texas is not looking the team
you talk about fugazi is probably the fugazi team of
college football is Texas. You don't know what the hell
they play them that program they play them week ten,
So next week they are going to be a primetime
game that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:31):
They do have good defense. To me, if he leads
them to a win and they win, you know, score
twenty plus points against them and he makes some plays,
I think he would be in the driver's seat assuming
he wins this week and that game is gonna be
in Texas, because I remember last year it was Vanderbilt.
It was close, but people didn't think Vanderbilt was that good.
Like Vanderbilt wins this week, I mean, would they I

(01:27:53):
don't know if they'd be favored in that game, but
the Lion would be small, They would not be some
huge underdog at all. I mean it might be. I
think a lot of people would take Vanderbilt if they
were getting like three or four points. That's for sure.
In that game, Texas looks terrible. I mean offensively they're bad,
their ow lines bad. Their defense is good though. Yeah,
that would be a great matchup, just their defense against
Pavia and the Vanderbilt offense because a lot of his

(01:28:15):
stuff is a little Johnny Manzel running around, you know,
but part of when you run around a little bit,
it actually is harder on like a high level, like
buttoned up defense because they're like in their lane, in
their gap, not screwing up. That's always screw up. Nick Saban, right,
guys that ran around because he's like, we're doing everything
perfect and then just three three sixties he runs sideline,

(01:28:35):
the sideline and then he throws this bomb. It took
out Nick Saban for years, the random mobile quarterback because
like being fundamentally sound and gap integrity it doesn't mean
anything where it's like when they played Leonard Fournette, it's
like we're just running over the B gap. Nick Saban's like,
good luck.

Speaker 2 (01:28:55):
Yeah, it's like scrambled draw everything just shit out the window.
People are going up and down the side line, and
they have good receiver chemistry, which is.

Speaker 1 (01:29:02):
And probably is just one big scramble drill. That's his
whole offense, you know, not his whole offense. He's better
than that. But I'm saying like it's a huge part
of his game, and I.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Think people are gonna probably in the comments say, well,
Mendoza's favorite, he should win the award. I also think
part of the award too is you've got to be
in primetime moments. You got to be up against great competition.
Penn State stinks because that would have been a good game.
I'm sure big newde kickoff would have been there. Maybe
they still will be there at Penn State in Indiana.
I'm sure they go back and forth between there and
Ohio State. They're like Ohio State's home TV station, it

(01:29:34):
seems like. But I think Ty Simpson would be the
only other guy that can compete with Pavia just because
of what he's done with al Alabama.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
He's been the answer.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
He was the question heading into this year for an
Alabama team that was loaded. We knew the receivers that
were going to come back. The haling to Bourne year
two kind of under that you know, spotlight that they had,
but the loss with Florida State wasn't his fault and
he just continues to get better week after week. Looking
at their schedule, they have LSU, they have Oklahoma at Auburn,
I mean the Iron Bowl.

Speaker 1 (01:30:03):
Who knows what could happen for that game.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
But if you're talking about a Heisman guy, he would
be the one that would contend for Pavia for me,
just because he came out of nowhere. I mean, this
guy seventh started about to be his ninth start.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
I think this weekend. It's crazy. I do think. You
know sometimes like who is this guy that we did
with Mac Jones, Like, well, he's on Bama's roster, so
like he is on Ohio State's roster or Texas When
you're at the top program, like you're pretty good?

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
How did he not start last year over Milroe? I mean,
I mean the evolution and developing and stuff. I get
that maybe he didn't have the confidence he did last
year then he.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
I mean, Milroe had just been a starter on a
playoff team. It was a weird playoff team, but it
was a playoff team. I don't know the money probably
paying him a lot. I mean Milroe did just get
drafted the third round. I mean he's a pretty big,
physical freak. Completion percentage, can be a little hit or missed,
but can't throw a slant and save his life. He
can run, he can throw bombs. I mean that passed

(01:30:59):
against Aburham was a pretty pretty legendary moment.

Speaker 2 (01:31:02):
Now, Isaiah Bond's playing for the Browns. He's his receiver.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
Three.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
Now here's how that came to be.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
You went undrafted. I forgot about that. Well. I mean
part of the reason is because the girl said that
he did that, and then he claimed he didn't, and
then he got off. Slash didn't happen, because what round
would he got drafted like the second. Uh, he had
the disappointing year at Texas, so maybe what I'm saying,
but he ran, well he did. You know, he's physically
a freak. Ah Yeah, I mean the Browns again, some

(01:31:34):
of these guys are completely innocent, Judkins, Bond. A lot
of weird stuff though, happens to there guys. You know,
it's all again, I'm I'm I'm not saying they're guilty
by any means. Uh, the one d tackle Hall, did
you know put a gun to his fiance and miss
some games last year. Again, this is the the standard

(01:31:56):
for their character, be a little hit or miss. See.
That's why say they're open minded. They give people the
benefit of doubt. I don't know. So I'm trying. I'm
trying to wait for a girl right now. I'm trying
to wait.

Speaker 2 (01:32:05):
I don't want to get in a situation like that
where the volume or three and outs colin and say
he said, she said, type of situation. We don't want
the Browns over here at three and out. No, we're
pretty open minded to though.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
I mean we don't. We don't rush to judgment here. No,
we let the we let the process play out. I'm
not a I'm not the court system, the judicial system.
So it's like, uh, I do put it on you
to make good decisions. Though. With with ladies, I gotta ask,
I gotta ask for some advice.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
But last question for you before we wrap this up,
I gotta ask a personal question.

Speaker 1 (01:32:37):
How's the baby man? How are you feeling? How are
you locked into a football season and she's due February
right January January?

Speaker 2 (01:32:46):
How are you processing that? Are you reading dad books?
Are you listening to podcasts like how does that work?
As someone that's about to be a new dad.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
You realize the disconnect. They have this human growing in them,
and you know, this kid's starting to kick and move
and NonStop and you're just sitting here living your life
completely normal. Yet they that thing couldn't exist without you.
Yet during the nine months, you don't bring that much
to the table. And from what I've heard, I don't

(01:33:15):
think once it's once it comes out, you don't bring
that much of the table either early on. So it's
it's kind of a weird experience that way. She is
very connected because again, this thing is growing in her stomach, kicking, moving,
you know, and I just live like I lived five
years ago. You know, football's on, talk about it, you know,

(01:33:38):
read an ad work on the next topic. We're going
to talk about. What are we going to talk about
next Wednesday? Tuesday? Stucky? What were my picks? Yet? Her
life is dramatically changed. So yeah, I mean I I
not much reading, just kind of keep my fingers crossed.
We signed up for some CPR classes. One thing I'm
big on is I would say the first several months

(01:34:04):
I would not feel comfortable being alone. It just someone's
life is in my hands too, you know, even after
the CPR class, which I think, I don't know if
it's like legally mandatory, but most people take it. I
don't know, because if something weird happens, but you just
realize this person's life is you know, if you ever,
just if she leaves, even if the baby's like six months,

(01:34:26):
like it's something bad happens, it's on me to figure
it out, like you've got to turn into like an
EMT meets Seal Team six. I mean, it's just feels
a lot of pressure. So I it's more heavy on
her right now and then you know it probably falls
into my world once the baby is out and about.
But it's the connection she has with with the young man,

(01:34:51):
uh is is just it's a powerful thing. I mean,
it's just she just has this thing in her you know,
it's crazy. That's so nuts. I think the part too.

Speaker 2 (01:35:00):
I mean, obviously I got along ways hopefully God willing,
I'm not having a baby soon.

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
But I always wonder when they cry.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
And you can identify what type of cry the baby has,
Crying for food, crying for mom, crying for obviously you're going.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
To figure that out. Hopefully sooner than later. But yeah,
I mean we'll try. We'll try. That's uh, I need
my sleep, That's what we're already kind of looking at that.
It's you know, you got to help, uh a part
of being a podcaster, right, It's one of those things
where I need my my head open, my energy, my
creative juices. So it's, uh, we're gonna have to figure out, uh,

(01:35:41):
the sleep schedule. I'm keeping my fingers cross. Hopefully he's
just a good sleeper, you know, nice eight ten hours
at night and uh, we all just get well rested
and we have a smile on our face. Though I've
heard that's not really the way it works, so I
don't know. We'll see. We'll just we're taking this journey
and uh, full speed ahead. And yeah, hopefully he's, uh,

(01:36:04):
I don't know, successful young man. And hopefully the NFL
gets rid of those money night doubleheaders. That'll help you
out too with your sleep schedule. He won't like that cramp.
You know, that's ridiculous. What are we doing ten o'clock
at night? It's crazy. I feel I always thought living
on the East Coast is kind of crazy, But I

(01:36:26):
don't know how Robert Solis seven eight kids. How's that
even possible? Like Phil Rivers was seventeen.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
Yeah, well he's coaching, you're right, Yeah, he's coaching in
the NFL.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
It just it just seems pretty just yes, just crazy.
I don't know how. I don't know how people do it.
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
Maybe when maybe when he pops out, you want another one.
Maybe it's just kind of an addiction to making more life,
having more kids, having more baby Like when you have
a dog, you get another dog and you get a
third dog, or you want a dog after that dog passes.

Speaker 1 (01:36:57):
Could happen, Yeah, definitely, could, it's definitely could. You know things.
I think two's are like the new five because when
I was a kid, a lot of people had like
four or five kids. Not maybe not a lot, but
you just knew a lot of people three three kids
or four kids. I would say most people, most of
my friends. I'm forty, my brother's thirty five. Most people

(01:37:18):
like in my friend group, his friend group, that have children.
It does feel like it's pretty shocking when you meet
someone with three children. It's not because people don't like
their kids, it's just obviously really expensive. Well, also, my
son has more clothes. He doesn't even exist yet in
terms of like the real world still inside than I
probably had through my first five years of life already

(01:37:40):
at the house. That's correct. These kids are just they're
styling and profile. I see some pictures of me from
like nineteen eighty eight. I mean, every human being I
knew is we all just kind of wore the same clothes.
We had a couple of tank tops, a T shirt
and a jacket, you know, one pair of shoes, even
like through high school and looking back and feel like
I had that many clothes, A couple of colored shirts,

(01:38:02):
a couple like football you know, blue Devil football shirts,
maybe like a San Franco Giant shirt. I mean, my
closet was not very big. I mean I see some
of these little kids closets. I'm not including my son.
It's insane how many clothes they have. Maybe it's just
Instagram TikTok, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:38:20):
It's wild and they're not doing much. They're just laying down. Yeah,
you don't even exactly that's it. They're not like they're
going on a walk or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
Like they're just can't even walk for like the first
year plus. That's amazing. I can't wait. Okay Jackson's good
talks of college football with you. Have a great day
and I'll see you soon. The volume

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}3 & Out - Jayden Daniels out, AGAIN, Russ vs. Payton, and Why Backup QBs Matter