3 & Out - Kansas City Chiefs handle Commanders on MNF REACTION - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? John Middlecop three
and Out podcast. Hopefully everyone's doing well, hopefully as well

(00:21):
as Brian Kelly, who I just saw a stat he's
gonna get seven hundred and forty thousand dollars every month
for the next six years. So a pretty incredible gig
if you can get it. But tonight we're gonna talk
about the Uh, We're gonna talk about the Chiefs who
just destroyed the Commanders, who are now five and three.

(00:42):
Mahomes throwing his hat in the ring for MVP. Commanders
are just in a free fall right now. They're three
and five. They were in the NFC Championship game last year.
They beat the Lions on the road, and now they
play Seattle coming up, which is not gonna go well,
that's Sunday Night football, like Seattle. In that spot they
played the Lions, it could get ugly, and it could

(01:02):
get ugly fast that they're gonna need Jaden Daniels back
real quick. And the Eagles, I mean, it's the division
already over and they got six wins. No one else
has more than three. I don't think either Dallas or
Washington best case gonna win eight Eagles are gonna cruise
this division. So we'll talk about something I forgot to
mention last night. It kind of hit me today when

(01:23):
I was driving around run some errands about Gutakins and Lafleur,
some couple thoughts on Brian Kelly and Rip Nick Vann Gold,
who I forgot to mention last night. Who passed away
this weekend, legendary former Jets team captain Ohio State, just
stud all time great center and lost way too soon obviously,

(01:45):
but I didn't want to hit on him, as well
as a mail bag at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff
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(02:06):
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to some football and a man named Patrick Mahomes. You
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You know, you guys never get to see the sausage

(03:29):
being made. Sometimes when I'm reading ads here to send
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in the back of my hand. But it can be
a challenge here. They're not as easy as they look.

(03:51):
Patrick Mahomes and the Kansai Chiefs, that was as easy
as it look. Very weird start to the game, I
mean extremely weird. The first quarter is one of the
more bizarre experiences I've had this year in a primetime game.
We had a pickoff Deebo's face. We had Patrick Mahomes
throwing a pick to Latimore, who I think would be
considered like universally shot washed most people. Even Troy Aikman

(04:15):
was like, God, he really needed that one. And then
Travis Kelsey had one like bounce off his hands get intercepted.
So we had like three interceptions within what felt like
the first twenty minutes of game time, and it's like,
what is going on here? And then the game played
out and the kan See Chiefs put the pedal to
the medal. Mahomes threw three touchdowns. Rashi Rice delay a

(04:41):
game penalty throwing the ball at someone's face. Coach Ried goes,
what did you do? And he does the he does
the uh you know, tries to show him what he did,
and Coachrie didn't even say anything back. He's like, are
you serious. He's like, you're actually telling me what you did.
But he did it. He got a delay game, but
it didn't mat He's an elite player. Travis has the

(05:05):
fountain of youth. Clearly, all the wide receiver help Marquise
Brown playing all season long, Juju Smith, Adam Rashi, Rice
back Worthy is now healthy. They're running games awesome. I
mean they're missing their best two offensive linemen to night.
Trey Smith is one of the better interior offensive linemen
in the NFL. I think they said on the broadcast

(05:26):
he missed his second game of his five year career tonight.
And Josh Simmons, who's been gone for the last several
games with a unknown personal matter. But I think people
have reported that signs point to him coming back in
the relatively near future. So they will get their starting
left tackle back and their starting star guard back to
go along with their high end center. It's like their

(05:46):
offensive line is pretty solid. Now. This team's coming and
it kind of hits you when you're watching him play,
like this team's gonna be in the AFC Championship game again.
It had a feel to that one Patriot team. I
forget the year. It might have been fourteen, could have
been fifteen. They started like two and two, and I

(06:08):
think Albert Breer asked a question in a press conference.
It might have been on a Monday night game where
they had lost to the Kansei Chiefs. If Tom Brady
was in, like was there a threat for him to
get benched in Jimmy Garoppolo to play, and Belichick's reaction
was classic. But then the dust settled and they were
in the Super Bowl. I think that was the year,

(06:29):
either they came back to Atlanta or beat beat the Rams.
I don't remember the exact year, but kind of how
it felt. You know, the Chiefs start zero and two,
Everyone's like they're done. You know, that looked a little weird.
And even when they lost the Jags game, that is
a game they always won and obviously Mahomes throws the
ninety nine yard pick six. Just it's starting to feel

(06:51):
like it's not really their year, and then as we
get to Halloween, it's like they're gonna be, especially if
they win this weekend against the Bills. If they win
this weekend again, he's the Bills going on the road,
take down the Bills who have played really well against
them and beat them countless times in the regular season,
and you go six and three into the by I think,
depending on what happens over these next several weeks with

(07:13):
the Colts, and who knows, can the Colts maintain a
fifteen win pacement, maybe they can. I think the Chiefs
immediately become a threat to be the number one seed.
But most importantly, like this isn't just a playoff team.
This is a contender, and this is a Super Bowl contender.
And you know, they have the most important combination in

(07:34):
the NFL, which I would say most people would say
they have the number one version of this the coach,
the quarterback, and the defensive coordinator, because their head coach
is the offensive coordinator. So whoever, your two coordinators are
typically now in the NFL, one of them for a
lot of you know these teams, it's their offensive coordinator McVeigh, Shanahan,

(07:57):
Sean Payton, Lafleur right, Kevin O'Connell, and then their defensive
coordinator is extremely important Flores Shula Sala Spags. And the quarterback, well,
they got arguably one of the best quarterbacks of all
time that I would have told you you were probably
need to put down the drugs maybe a month ago.

(08:21):
But you watch him the night and you've watched in
the last several games now that he's got his arsenal
of weapons back, and you go, that's the best player
in the league. And the MVP odds have shown like,
how is Patrick so high in the MVP odds? How
is Patrick so high in the MVP odds? Kind of
hit me tonight, like, well, he wins next week in

(08:41):
Buffalo and he ends up throwing several touchdowns a game.
Moving forward, this guy's gonna win the MVP of the league.
And here's what he has going for him. Because sometimes
narratives matter. It really helped Josh last year, right because
in fairness, he had never won it, and he was
clearly one of the best players in the league. He
was in that trio or quattro of Burrow, Lamar Mahomes

(09:04):
and him. They were the leaders of the pack and
he was playing great. He probably could have won it
previous years, but like there was a lot of momentum
for him, just like early in his career there was
a lot of momentum for Patrick. Then we completely shifted.
We had gone all in with Josh and Lamar, rightfully,
so you could argue there were times those guys were
playing better than Patrick Mahomes. It wasn't really debatable. Now

(09:27):
he flipped a switch in the playoffs, so did his team,
and they would beat them in the playoffs. But it's
a regular season award, and those other guys earned it
well this year, especially after the zero and two start,
everyone kind of wrote him off. I was probably I
don't know if I want to say I'm guilty, but
I definitely thought like, yeah, this could just be a
nine and eight season. Understandable. You got some injuries, little transition,

(09:50):
You're missing some players, zavi' Worthy gets hurt in the
first game. You know your defense has some holes. You
know Chris Jones is gonna pick his spots. No, well,
that's not what's gonna happen. And this is why when
you have Josh Allen, when you have Lamar Jackson, when
you have Patrick Mahomes, when you have Joe Burrow, your
chip's all going to be in the middle of the
table every single year because as long as they're on

(10:13):
the field, they give you a chance. And this guy
the reason we talk about him in such a high regard,
Like I love football, I love watching good quarterback play.
I loved watching Marcel Read on Saturday night in Louisiana
with that performance. It was just spectacular. I admire it.
I appreciate how difficult it is on the road and

(10:36):
these environments. Understand the pressure of playing in these primetime games,
and to watch Mahomes and this is what you know,
being critical of some young quarterbacks and stuff. You have
to do the easy stuff well right, Like when you're
running back hits a wheel route and it's third and
five and that is schemed up and he will walk

(10:58):
to a first down. Need to hit him, You need
to hit him in stride. Patrick Mahomes does that shit
with his eyes closed. Quick out slants, timing routes on
second and eight, third, nine, stuff that is gonna get
you the first down or not a first down, in
the difference in punting and keeping the chains and the
drive going, that's what he majors in that. But his

(11:21):
ability and what he's really shown over the last couple
of weeks, it's like kind of feels like we're getting
that throwback what made the guy kind of legendary. We
called him Farvian, we called him like the Steph Curry
of football, and he's doing that again. And it's harder
to do that when you don't have players to throw
it to. And Stucky was on my podcast a couple

(11:41):
of weeks ago and he brought up a good point.
He's like, I think Travis was just a product of
the receivers were injured and everyone kind of condensed in
the middle of the field and took that away from well,
when you got Hollywood Brown playing well, when you got
Juju Smith playing well, when you bring back Rice, you
got the speed worthy when your running backs can catch

(12:02):
the ball, it just opens the field a little bit.
So all of a sudden, you're watching Travis Kelcey. He
just looks a little bit younger than he did previous years.
Maybe he's not. Maybe it's just simply he has more
room to operate and listen. Is he as quick and
explosive as he was four or five years ago. Of
course not. But he's so smart. Even on the one
big play today, what's he doing? He's in on pass protection.

(12:25):
What does Mahomes do? He's looking around, He's looking around,
nothing's there. All of a sudden, Travis realizes there's no
one there, slip out Mahomes elite instincts looks, dumps them
the ball off. Huge game. Maybe in his younger years
he scores a touchdown on that play, But I'm watching
Patrick Mahomes when I go that's MVP. I mean, So

(12:48):
the Chiefs can they win the AFC? I think we
all acknowledge yes, they can, this version of them when
you have Andy Reid, when you got Spags scheming it up,
and you got quarterback play at this level. Even if
you're to be Let's say Denver wins the division and
they're a twelve win team, and Denver's a thirteen win
team and you're the five seed. You think you're worried

(13:09):
if you're Kansas City about going on the road and
take care of business. You think you're scared to go
on the road to play the Pittsburgh Steelers, of course
not so. I think the Chiefs have really figured it out,
and I think it starts and really ends with this quarterback.
I feel like he flipped a switch. I really do.

(13:31):
And it's easier to make plays when you have more
talent around you. But he feels a little just more
dialed in than and he's just playing at a higher level.
He does this in the playoffs, but over the last
couple of years in the regular season, it could just
be a little hit or miss. And the version we're
seeing right now, like this is the first couple of
years when he started like doing the miraculous stuff, and

(13:55):
the talent around him is really good and they're just
playing at a high level now. I obviously watch it's
not very good. Like I look at Washington like a
six or seven win team, But what does a good
team do to a bad team? They destroy them. And
that's exactly what happened to night twenty eight to seven.
Let's just pick up some stats here, Chiefs twenty six
first downs Washington fourteen. You know, the Chiefs could be

(14:17):
a little bit better on third down. They were four
to ten, but good on fourth down. That's another thing
with Washington, and we talked about this over the course
of the season, was stuck you on the gambling aspect.
They were so good on fourth down last year they
were like twenty two of twenty four, were twenty two
of twenty five, whatever the number was. It was insane

(14:41):
because of the quantity of the times they went for it,
but of obviously the times that they executed it, and
you watch them now and obviously with Mariota, there's a
big difference with Jayden Daniels, but the magic's just kind
of gone. And this is what's so difficult. I was
thinking this on Saturday watching Alabama. Think how many years

(15:04):
that program has been the game that every team on
their schedule circles. I mean, we're going on easily over fifteen,
like once Nick Saban really established the program in like
twenty ten. So for all the twenty tens in this
entire decade, including right now, every single team that plays them,

(15:24):
every non conference team, and every SEC team circles them.
For the Chiefs. Now since Patrick Mahomes, Like, they were
a good team before Patrick got there. When Patrick got there,
they accelerated to just an elite operation. So for the
last six or seven years. Every team on the schedule,
obviously divisional teams, but every non divisional team you play,

(15:45):
it's arguably the biggest regular season game of their season.
You are getting everyone's best fight. You are walking into
the ring and they are gonna give you. However many
Mike Tyson wrights they have, and some might have more
than others. Right, obviously Washington doesn't have much tonight, But tonight,
if you're Washington, even with your backup quarterback, you're three
and four. This was a kitchen sink game. And this

(16:07):
would have been even if they were a fully loaded team.
It's a really big deal to play the Kansa Chiefs.
When you are forever Lebron James or Steph Curry or
Tiger Willis. You're getting everyone's best shot every single time
you play them because you are their biggest deal. And
I'm washing the Chiefs tonight, just thinking like that's really hard.

(16:27):
It's why I always say like it's really hard to
maintain a high level of play as a team, as
an individual player, as a coach. Like anyone at the
highest level can have a good game. Hell, most guys
can have a good season, but being a great player
is doing it year in, year out. What they say tonight,

(16:50):
Travis Kelce that was his one hundredth career touchdown including
the playoffs. I think it was like as eighty third
during the regular season. You know how long that guy
has a good player. I mean, we're going on well
over a decade of basically every year you're getting I
would say, on average, eighty five catches. And I bet

(17:13):
he had a stretch where he was scoring seven eight
touchdowns a year. I mean basically since he didn't really
play as a rookie his second year, sixty seven catches,
seventy two catches, eighty five catches, eighty three catches, one
hundred catches, ninety seven catches, one hundred and five catches,
ninety two catches, one hundred and ten catches, ninety three catches,

(17:34):
ninety fucking seven catches last year. Every single year he's
clocking in to kick ass, even when people like me
he's lost a step, I lost a step. Ninety seven catches,
ninety seven catches. Now I get it. There's an extra game.
We throw the ball more, especially with a coach like
Andy Reid. It's gonna be different than playing for some
of his coaches. But still, do you know how difficult

(17:55):
that is? And I watched this is what makes the
league Washington, I'm guilty of this. It's like they got
James Daniels, incredible player. It's like I like CJ. Stratt
a lot as rookie year who didn't I felt like
Jayden was on a different level. When you factored in
the dual threat. It was just like they got Dan Quinn,

(18:17):
this established coach. They got Adam Peters who's been groomed
to be this great GM. You got Bob Myers, who's
in there given tips. You got Magic Johnson hanging out
with Josh Harrison, like this thing's a rocket ship. You're two.
They'll probably go like six to eleven or seven and ten.
I get it. They had some injuries, but still it's like,
that's how fast it can the Chiefs now. Since Andy

(18:39):
Reid has got there, I think they've had one down
year where they missed the playoffs. They went nine and
seven one. It is really difficult because last year Washington
didn't have this. They got this flight under the radar.
They had been one of the shittiest franchises in the
league for two decades, so no one takes them that seriously,
even if they have this special quarterback. Now by the

(18:59):
end of the year, you kind of okay, this team's
got a winning record. Then all of a sudden, you look,
you're in the NFC Championship game. It's one of the
great seasons in like franchisees had in thirty years. It's
like all the hype coming back this year and now
you're just getting throttled, and in fairness, like it's not
I'm not blaming these guys for like feeling themselves or

(19:19):
getting the disease of me. Some of it's just you know,
Jaden's been banged up obviously, mclaurin's missed some games. I
have nothing but respect for Bobby Wagner. Absolute badass. He's
a liability now. I mean you see his speed trying
to cover guys. I mean, he used to be one
of the best lines. He's a Hall of Famer. It's
one of the great players of his generation. But this

(19:40):
is thing in football, you know, and once you lose
a step at linebacker in the way the league has
played now it's a space league. They use running backs
in the passing game. You got to cover people, and
you just feel like Dan Quinn talked about it like
we don't feel as fast. Well, your middle linebacker is
not as fast and your pastor isn't as good. Like

(20:00):
you're depending on Javon Kinlaw, who's solid player, but like
that's one of your main guys on defense, Latimore, who's
had a really bad season. They've depended on some guys
who've fallen off. Now, McLaurin, you saw tonight made like
two of the better catches of the year. I mean
the catch on the sideline where Mariota throws the lollipop

(20:21):
to keep his foot one. It's just incredible touch on
the pass, but to slow his feet down like he's
Chris Carter and catch that thing. That was awesome. It
was so good. The referee was literally standing there and
was like out of bounds, out of bounds. They showed
the replays like that's pretty easily in bounds. But honestly,

(20:41):
when it happened in real time, like got that he
didn't catch that, no chance. And then he did same
thing on the one down the sideline. You're like, that's
out of bounce. Then you see, no, he caught it.
This is where I defended Terry McLaurin It's like, listen,
there is no way that I'm gonna make the same
money as Deebo Samuel on this team because I'm a

(21:02):
dynamic outside wide receiver he's and this is no shade
of Debo. I have a lot of respect for him,
but like, if you are building a team based on
who's better gets paid more, you gotta pay Terry McLaurin Moore,
And I thought Debo would have a big impact for
him doesn't quite feel like He's hasn't been terrible, but uh,

(21:23):
you know, they're just missing a little juice and at
the end of the day, like Mahomes doesn't miss games.
And it's the other thing with Jaden and this is
we talked about this last week. You know, they get
back to the Herm Edwards thing, like the best abilities availability,
and that's obviously not true. The best ability is like
your actual ability, right, Like some guys have way less

(21:46):
ability than Chris Jones. So it's like, yeah, you can
put him a defensive tackle, they're gonna get stoned by
centers and guards, so like you got to have ability,
but at that level, like most guys have a lot
of ability, But then if you're not available, like pretty
might end up playing like three games this season. They's
paid him two hundred million dollars. Like that's a disaster.

(22:06):
It's no one's fault, Like obviously, no one's trying to
get injured, but it's just that's a problem, you know,
and especially it's one thing when you have catastrophic injuries.
Nothing you can do when it's just these injuries, like what,
what's the reason for this? Is it something you're doing
putting yourself in harms way? Because you're all of our

(22:26):
jobs now, coaching staff, front office, a lot of players
on the team are tied to you, Like we go
as you go. Ask everyone in Kansas City what it's
like to have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid in the
front seat driving that bus. It's been glorious financially, wins
and loss wise, the moments they've had to just everything

(22:50):
about it. But like you got to be able to
depend on the guy, and that's gonna be something like
if Jaden wants to have this great career, which he
has the physical capable, he's got to be on the field.
And you watch Mariota, who I looked up fascinating career
right when he came out of college and I always give,
like the college guys a little grace on this. You know.

(23:11):
I remember having Joel Klatt on the radio show Rick
new Heiseel too. They both thought he was like the
next Steve Young. It's like, I don't know, I like Mariota.
Who doesn't. He's like all time great character guy. Could
be a little inaccurate, you know when you really watch
him at ore Again, guys weren't wide open. But he
was an easy guy to root for. But he's a
good example. I looked it up today. He's made eighty
three million dollars and he hasn't been a starter in years.

(23:38):
If you are a good guy, right and you're on
that tier that like, you know, I'm not gonna be
a top twelve fifteen quarterback, but people are gonna love me.
You can make a lot of money in the NFL.
And like, at the end of the day, if Mariotas
started a lot of games, you're gonna lose a lot
of them. But he's got another year after this, maybe
a couple. When it's all said and done, I get

(24:00):
a couple more five million dollar contracts. He might make
one hundred million dollars by the time, he's thirty six,
thirty seven years old as a backup quarterback. And I
think that's a good lesson for life, like be a
good person, treat people well, be someone like part of
being valuable in certain industries is like be a guy
that other people want to be around. Ask Joe Flacco

(24:22):
or people that have employed Joe Flacco what that means
they like being around Joe Flacco. Well, I said this
about Mark Sanchez. I always said that Mark Sanchez, Remember
he had a long career as a backup. People loved him.
And there's about Chase Daniel was a guy that played
for like fifteen years in the NFL. I think he
had like four career starts, made like forty million dollars.
So the value of Mariota is not that he's a

(24:44):
good player, because most guys, if you have to become
a starter when you're the backup, and a Mariota has
to start eight games this year, they're gonna lose the
majority of them, right, and they basically pay him to
not play, you know. And there are some like Mac
Jones you can win some games with, and Mac Jones
a good example of that. Mac Jones can become a

(25:05):
guy that can just have a long career making eight
to ten million dollars as the best backup in the league,
and maybe one team one year will give him, like
one year twenty million dollars to be a bridge quarterback
so he can inflate his overall earnings over the course
of his career. And you can't turn that down. But like,
if you're one of those guys, I love this guy
in the quarterback room. I want this guy around my

(25:26):
young quarterback because most bad teams are always looking to
draft young quarterbacks. Well, who do you want around a
young quarterback? A high level guy? What did the Chiefs
do when they basically inserted Patrick Mahomes when they traded
Alex Smith, Brett Veach, Andy Reid had a goal to
find a backup quarterback. The guy had to be married.

(25:47):
They wanted a mature guy around their young quarterback. Who'd
they sign and hire? Chad Henny? What Chad Henny do
make millions of dollars for years being the backup for
Patrick Mahomes And it's beloved in that building. And I
remember hearing a story that when Chad had he was
like I'm retiring. They're like, hey, Chad, can you help
us find a backup quarterback? So I think he did

(26:07):
some interviewing for them, Like that's that's the type guy.
Like when you watch Flaco. Now Flaco's you know, probably
shouldn't be starting. But he's another one of those guys
you just want them around Jamis. Look at the career,
Jamis has kind of cut out for Look at Gardner Minshew.
He just like Gardner Minchew. Now garnamentch you's gotta start
for you. You got problems. But I bet if you ask

(26:27):
Andy and Patrick and Naggie like, oh, we love Gardner.
He's awesome, great vibes in the in the meeting room,
helps everyone study, good film breakdown guy. We like him around.
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A couple other things. I don't think I did a

(28:13):
good job last night. Sometimes you know, when we just
do these instant reactions I'm thinking the next day, I'm like,
I wish I would have said that. I don't know
if Kodakin's on the floor get enough credit. You know,
we talked a lot about this, you know, the big
news today. I have big news today, but it was
news today. The Carson Wentz. I think the whole right

(28:34):
side of his body is just doesn't work. His pack,
his shoulder, I mean, he just who knows if it'll
ever work again. But he's out for the year. And
when you make a decision with a quarterback, we always assume.
Like the Chiefs traded Alex Smith to go with Patrick Mahomes.
They thought he was going to be really good, but

(28:55):
they didn't know until he played, Like you know, they
didn't they never knew was going to be this. I mean,
they hoped he'd be an explosive player, a good player.
He could be a fringe Pro Bowl guy and maybe
have a higher ceiling. Turns out as one of the
great players of all time. But that move took balls.
And anytime you make a quarterback move, let Sam Donald

(29:15):
go for JJ McCarthy like that, that takes stones, and
I admire, like it's so much easier to make suggestions
than decisions. You make a decision and you're gonna be
right or wrong based on the results, but the process
of the decision, Like I understand most of these choices,
beside the Atlanta Falcons and the way they set that up,
but I understood what Minnesota. Did you know? And I

(29:39):
think Goodakins and the floor. It's easier to let Sam
Donald go to Seattle or trade and Alex Smith at
Washington than it is to trade Aaron Rodgers after he's
won multiple MVPs on your watch and made you a
lot of money and made you as a coach and
GM look really good and the conviction they had and

(30:00):
listen like it could have gone wrong. Even if Rogers
gets traded to the Jets and nothing changes, he still
tells Achilles his career is going like it's going if
Jordan Love sucks, which clearly is possible. Right Whenever you
insert a young quarterback, whether he's a former first rounder
or a fifth rounder, he might not be good at

(30:21):
NFL football. It is clearly not an exact science, and
we don't really have any more of a clue now
than we did thirty twenty fifteen years ago. We've been
missing on these guys forever and Jordan loved clearly was
a wild card. Utah didn't play that much. He just
didn't know. It's not like he came from a powerful conference.
He was playing at Utah State against San Diego States

(30:43):
and New Mexico's. Now he had a lot of physical ability,
but you're going to keep your fingers crossed. Now they
had years working with him behind the scenes, but still
like it hasn't I don't think it could have gone
much better to go from Rogers to a I that
could just be one of the best quarterbacks in your
conference and be a starting quarterback on a team several

(31:07):
years later. I mean they've gone to the playoffs back
to back years. Two years ago they won a game
on the road against the Cowboys, and this year they
stay healthy, they are going to be a major threat
to be the number one overall seat. So back like
when Ted Thompson traded Farv to go with Rogers, the
nuts that takes because the easy thing to do is

(31:29):
and most people in life, whether you work at Google,
whether you work at Wells Fargo, or whether you work
for an NFL team, are going to take the safe
route for job preservation. I don't think anyone would have
blamed them, and I don't think most people, even if
they believed in Jordan Love like it. The easy thing
would have been, like, let's just try to keep Aaron Rodgers, like,

(31:51):
you know what, let's break up, let's do this. We
will pull the trigger and trade you away and go
with Jordan Love. And it's worked out. Obviously, he's his careers.
I'm not saying has been perfect. But you watch him
the other night against Pittsburgh on the road on Sunday
night football, just slinging it all over the place, and
a couple of things he did, like we talk a

(32:14):
lot about quarterbacks being reckless, and when I talk about that,
it's more when they're running around, you gotta be careful
and you got to just hit the ground. You can't
take these just unneeded shots. You are going to take
shots when you're sitting in the pocket holding onto that
ball for that extra split second to get the guy open.
And he did that multiple times last night. Like his
toughness was on full display. And I think there is

(32:36):
not a GM Obviously, just this year, you would rather
have Jordan Love than Aaron Rodgers, and over the last
several years, it's not even a question given that he's
hurt and now old, and I'm not acting like Aaron
Rodgers some scrub. Now he's still solid player. But what
a move by those two guys. Brian Kelly, I want
to hit on this really quick because I've been thinking

(33:00):
a lot about this, having just been around coaches and
you know, having been doing this for a living for
a long time and watching all these guys careers closely,
and you know, knowing a lot of guys that work
for a lot of these coaches, and you know, these
scouts that go into these different programs, and I always
ask them about and listen, I get like unsolicited texts
from guys that you know. Luke Fickle a couple of

(33:22):
weeks ago refuted a report that I guess it had
come out like Dane Brugler had said, like it's really
important to watch some of these guys during games for
Wisconsin because he doesn't let you into practice. And then
someone had asked Luke Fickle about that report, and Luke
Fickle had called it a lie. He said, we're not

(33:42):
North Carolina. And then my scouting buddy had sent me
a text like no, he one is no one's allowed
to watch his practice. He's like, not only is Fickle
disliked by most NFL teams because he's not a likable guy,
but he's a liar. And I was like, I didn't know.
I just assume fickles like kind of like a Mike Vrabel, like, no,

(34:04):
people can't stand the guy, And clearly Brian Kelly and
I think Belichick can be used as an example too.
Are people that when their teams were winning, like Notre
Dame or the New England Patriots, didn't like the guy.
They're not likable humans, but you're winning and you respect

(34:27):
their ability to put you in a position to win more,
right we all, I'm sure many of you listening, Depending
on what business you're in, do deals, do partnerships, work
with people that you do not like and honestly probably
can't stand. But if it's financially beneficial and you are

(34:49):
literally making money because of it, and the guy is
not like a criminal or whatever, you just kind of
suck it up and deal with it called life. But
when you don't win, or in my example, when you
aren't making money, you're like, I ain't doing this shit,
no way, Well, why do you think everyone's turned on
Belichick over the last four or five years because that act,

(35:11):
when you're absolutely miserable, you have no personal relationship with
any of these guys, specifically your players, it's not gonna work.
And this is not the sixties and seventies, the eighties,
the nineties where you could just be like that and
no one ever pushes back. Now, I'm a big believer
that I think it's overrated a little bit. Like different generations,

(35:31):
I think anyone worth their salt wants to be pushed
to their highest level of potential, and I think athletes
are no different than whatever we do that when you're
around the right guy that establishes a relationship with you
that you know can take you to another level. You
can deal with some quote unquote hard coaching, right Dan Campbell,

(35:54):
can Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Lafleur. Those guys are quote
unquote lighting people up when they need to be, but
they also have a personal relationship with them. I bet
if you went to a Kirby Smart practice, you're gonna
hear some f bombs. But I bet if you went
to the cafeteria when he's hanging out with the linebackers
or the dbs, like he knows them all pretty well.

(36:17):
Even Nick Saban's a good example where he screamed at
people constantly, and I've known a lot of people that
worked for him. It was difficult, but you knew that
it was gonna work. Nick Saban could not have done
what he did. If he was winning six games a year,
everyone would have quit and players would have there would
have been a mutiny, But they were winning so big

(36:37):
everyone just bought in. That's the problem with Brian Kelly
in LSU. I thought that everyone made a little bit
too big a deal about the accent and the family
and just everything about that. But looking back, he was
a fish out of water and he tried to pretend
he was something he was not. And I saw a

(36:59):
bunch of people I feel like I fallow a lot
of people from Louisiana. They're like, this notion that you
got to be from Louisiana to coach this team is bullshit.
You could be from wherever. You just need to have
the passion, the energy, and the want to be here
and people will embrace you it Obviously, you gotta win games.

(37:21):
It almost felt like Brian Kelly never dove headfirst into
the deep end. Like I consider, you know, people like
Nick Saban's not quote from the South and he's from
West Virginia. He had coached at LSU, but several years
in he felt part of Alabama, and like Alabama felt
part of him. They were intertwined, and you felt Brian Kelly,

(37:45):
it felt like he was just a hired mercenary almost
a lot like some of these players. Look at Florida State,
they have been kings of just buying players on the
transfer portal, and when it works, it's awesome. When it doesn't,
guys just tap out because there's not like that sweat
equity and loyalty. You look last year at Ohio State

(38:07):
making the run. What do they have going for them?
They had a lot of guys who had been there
for years. Everyone was rowing in the same direction. They
were all part of the same deal. Or it felt
like Brian Kelly, it's weird. I know he had LSU
on a shirt, but he always felt like, I don't know,

(38:27):
the red face guy from Boston that was the Notre
Dame coach that was just doing this because they gave
him ninety million dollars and it felt like he could
never really be himself, and part of being himself is
just he's truly an asshole. Like there's just and I
think sometimes like some people that's just their personality. Like
not everyone's just super friendly and that's fine. Just be

(38:48):
true to yourself, be authentic to who you are. One
of Lane Kiffen's things that he's doing really well right now,
he just feels pretty authentic. He's kind of a goofy,
making jokes, not that serial all the time. That's I
think kind of his personality. I remember when I was
scouting and he was the USC head coach. He was
actually back then he tried to act like Belichick, didn't

(39:10):
talk to anybody, was kind of a dick, tried to
put on this like front and it didn't really work
and it was a disaster form and in life, when
people think you're an asshole, if you are not the
best of the best, either the top moneymaker, the top coach,
the top player, they will turn on you first. So

(39:32):
Brian Kelly, like Billy naper is a good example. People
like Billy Napier down in Florida. Why nice guy. People
got along with him, so he got a longer rope,
even though it clearly was not working. Life's not that complicated.
People want good people to have good things happen to them.
When people think you're a bad guy, which Brian Kelly,

(39:54):
the display he had on the sideline was like just
a bad guy. You just a we all know him.
It's like, yeah, that's James Man. Just stay away from him.
Do not do a deal with that guy. A lot
of shady stories about him. We all know these people.
Even if you can have a one on one interaction
maybe over beering he's cool, you just saw like you

(40:16):
just do not trust this guy. Brian Kelly looks like
a guy you don't trust. And obviously Jimmy Sexon being
his agent got him a lot of money and he
did a good job at Notre Dame. But uh, it
just felt like, I don't know, I mean, just to
fish out of water, and he could just resort, resort

(40:38):
to what he knows best, and that's just being a
royal dick to everybody. And you can pull that off
when you're winning eleven games and going to the college
football Playoff. You can pull that off when you're kicking
ass and taking names, when you're winning seven games and
your team's unwatchable. And you're not only not from that area,

(40:59):
but you're from a law long way away where people
talk differently, they vote differently, and overall, they just think
about life differently. They're going to turn on you, and
they turned on him immediately, and most people had already
turned on him. But that switch gets flipped so much

(41:19):
faster when people don't like you. And last, but not least,
I meant to talk about this last night, but you know,
about three or four days ago, my wife shows me
your phone. She's like, do you see this about the
guy in the Jets. I'm like what. He needs a
kidney transplant. I'm like, who what? And then I read
it and Nick man Goold basically gave out this play.

(41:41):
Maybe it was last week that he had this kidney disease.
Since I think it was going on close to twenty years,
they had known about it, but it had gotten really
bad and he needed a transplant. And obviously, then the
news broke over the weekend that he had died. And
I think, as you get older, you know, I've lost
a parent, I've lost people that I went to high

(42:03):
school with or grew up with. You know, as you age,
just you experience life, but it never gets easier. And
I've never met Nick man Gould, but I think one
enduring fact of the sport of football is that offensive
lineman there is a relatability to that position, especially to
certain individuals in that group, that is just undeniable. And

(42:30):
there was like this he almost felt like a television
character with the big beard and just the big smile.
But wikipedia, I mean, he went to the Pro Bowl
every year. He was a multiple time All Pro. Like
he was an ass kicking team captain for a team
that for a couple of years was one of the

(42:51):
best teams in the league. And he was obviously the
anchor of that team because it sure wasn't the quarterback.
And you see guys, as you get older, you know,
you start especially for me, I'm about to have a child.
You see nineteen eighty four Dash twenty twenty five, and
you go, God, I was born in nineteen eighty four too,

(43:12):
And it really humanizes just a situation of like this
guy that had the world by the balls, this All American,
former first round pick, I don't know, potential Hall of
Famer who was universally loved from Ohio State to the
NFL to every single person that I have seen that

(43:35):
played with Nick Van Goold was in tears and you
just see this guy. He had four children who I
haven't googled their ages, but I would imagine they're relatively young.
And it just rips at your heart that I said
this when I got involved in the NFL. And I
remember when I was in college in like the mid

(43:56):
two thousands, a lot of guys were getting in trouble,
right or at least it felt like that. And that
was when Roger Goodell kind of took over, like the judge,
jury and executioner. He started suspending guys and he became
like the hammer. And I remember working in the NFL.
I'm like, I don't think that, And I remember going

(44:17):
to the combines, like I think most of these guys
are pretty good guys. I think most of these individuals,
if they weren't playing football, would be high level, contributing
members of society. And the amount of guys in this
upper percentage, there's a small percentage of America that is
able to do this, and a tiny tiny percentage of
them are knuckleheads and idiots. Most of them are like

(44:41):
pretty trustworthy, high level guys, and then the super high
level guys of that group were like, this guy could
probably run a bank, and then this guy, thank god,
this guy is not a podcaster, because I probably wouldn't
have a job. And that's kind of what it felt
like for Nick Mann Gould and there was obviously, you know,
Rex had a pretty good couple of minutes on t
the other day. I think any offensive lineman, the number

(45:03):
one thing they want to be known for is toughness.
And that feels like a defining attribute for a guy
that you don't become a seven time Pro bowler, and
this is before the Pro Bowl became fake, like when
guys went and multiple time All Pro at center and
not be one of the toughest guys in the league.
But it also shows you and this humanizes that I

(45:25):
think we all can relate to. If Nick Mann Golden's
prime was in a bar fight, like, there wouldn't be
that many people that he would have trouble with. Yet
in life, when something goes wrong inside of you, it
doesn't matter how tough or how big, or how strong
or how many Pro Bowls you made. You're in trouble

(45:48):
and it just sucks. And I don't really know what
else to say. Beside, I just think you saw the
NFL community was pretty rocked by losing Nick Man Gold
at forty one years old, just a pretty legendary figure
of his era. Let's do a little thing we like

(46:19):
to call the middle Cooff mail back. Now, you guys
are obviously watching this to day after the game, so
I don't know the results if there are questions come
up regarding that. But at John Middlecoff, At John Middlecoff,
I checked my dms that probably look like a hot
babe on ig loaded with dudes, except they're just asking
me football questions occasionally live questions, sometimes about where to
play golf in Scottsdale. And one of you guys actually

(46:42):
hit me up with some gluten free recommendations. So it's, ah,
we're tempting to make the lifestyle change. We'll see if
I'm able to pull it off. But uh, here's the
thing at John Middlecoff is the middle Cooff Mailbag. Monday
Middlecoff mailback fire. In those dms, get your questions answered
on the show obviously it comes out on Tuesday. What

(47:02):
are your thoughts on the Eagles hopes? Specifically, KP think
he's alluding to Kevin Patola after the win yesterday. I
think the Eagles the last couple weeks twenty eight points
against the Vikings. Obviously, Jalen had a big breakout yesterday,
thirty eight points. Someone had forwarded me the stats on
Jalen Hurts. I don't think most people right now would

(47:23):
be like, what's Jalen done this year? He'd be like, ah,
not that great looking. It's fifteen touchdowns in one interception.
Then if you factor in his rushing touchdowns, he has five,
So he has twenty twenty touchdowns this year only halfway
through the season. I mean, if you go sixteen to

(47:44):
seventy games and you produce forty touchdowns and only one
or two picks, he's got to throw some more picks.
But if he only throws five and he goes a
forty to touchdown, forty touchdowns to five interceptions passing and running,
that's pretty remarkable part if it's a touchbush. But even
if the touch bush didn't exist, he'd be a good,

(48:04):
you know, short yardage quarterback, and he's a threat to run.
So it's weird. I think it felt like he was
having a weird season, not that bad. I do think
for the Eagles the moment of truth is these next
couple of weeks. Right, technically they are not the number
one seed because the Packers tied that game against the Cowboys. Right,
so if the Cowboys, you know, I don't think the Eagles.

(48:26):
The Eagles would have liked the Cowboys to pull that
thing off. But regardless, they play the Packers in a week.
I think it looks like on Monday Night Football. So
the Eagles are on a buy and then they get
Monday Night Football and then they get Sunday Night football
against the Lions. So they got to go to Lambeau
and then they play the Lions at home. So I
think we're gonna learn a lot about them in terms

(48:48):
of is this the number one seed or is this
like the three seed. If they get the number one seed,
they're gonna be very difficult to beat, right. If you
got to play that extra game, it's like the college
football playoffs, you have a massive advantage. I know Ohio
State won the championship last year, but you don't have
to play the first game, and then you get a
second game. You get to rest your guys. It's a

(49:09):
big deal. So I guess ironically as the teams in
the playoff last year. Maybe that's a bad thing to
use as example because neither of them got a home
field buy. But I think we'd all choose a bye.
Every single coach, every single player at any level would go,
do you want to buy? In the playoffs? They would
say yes. So I do think that these next two
games are going to define the Eagles. I also think

(49:32):
that internally, like I know the way how he works.
He's got a brain that never stops, and they're always
throwing ideas and after you had now the Giants run
defense is pretty terrible, and they're playing backup corners. There's
no doubt they're having the conversation, could we win the
Super Bowl? Could we win the NFC? They're winning the

(49:53):
NFC East right. I don't care what the outcome was
Monday night, which I'd be stunned if Washington won. But
boys best are going eight eight and one. The Giants
are winning four or five games, commanders probably, I don't know.
Eight nine that's health related. It could be worse. So
the Eagles are cruising to this division. I think the
question mark is what do we need to beat the

(50:15):
Lions to beat the Packers to beat the Rams, to
beat Seattle, to beat Tampa Bay. Do we need AJ
Brown because can we trade them now? They're not gonna
give them away. And Jeffrey Loriy talked about this at
the owners meetings, which I respect because a lot of
owners like kind of beat around this push like, yeah,
we'll only do something it's best for the Philadelphia Eagles,
like they're not just getting they don't need to just
get rid of AJ. But the elephant in the room

(50:38):
is AJ and Jalen don't like each other. Brandon Graham
told us last year they can walk that back. We
know the truth and there's nothing wrong with that. We
all worked with people, or currently work with people. People
listening right now that you do not necessarily like for
whatever reason. Sometimes it's stupid, But I do believe that
they will entertain it. Now. It's got to be a

(50:58):
lot Like to me, the minimum would be like a
two and a three because it's like we'll just keep
them and do New England, you know, depending on where
they stand. Like, hey, Ag is under contract too, so
if you trade for him, you don't like, it's not
like a rental. This isn't like your trade deadline, he's leaving.

(51:20):
I'm trying to pull up his contract here. Yeah, I
mean he's not a free agent for years, so you
basically you got control of him for a while. Could
you get two twos for him? Would New England do that?
Is that too short sighted when they still get a
long way to go? Or they're like, hell, we're equipped
to win now. Question for the back both the NFC
West and the NFC North could potentially have three teams

(51:42):
in the playoffs, which you think is more likely or
do you think they might have to cancel each other
out as they play each other in the division. Well,
I don't think the NFC North is getting three teams in.
I think the Packers and the Lions or playoff teams.
I think Minnesota's and Shambles. Carson went I just saw
and the Ticker is out for the season. I mean

(52:03):
it felt like he almost died on Thursday night. Like, seriously,
I have a lot of respect for him. He was
getting the crap kicked out of him and clearly has
his shoulder worked on now and he's out for the year.
You know, it's like, Okay, JJ, you're up, buddy. There's
no backstop here. There's no you can just disappear and
your team's banged up, like god speed, I don't think

(52:25):
it's gonna go well. And at the end of the day,
the Bears, like their quarterback play just isn't good enough.
It's just that simple, and like they're gonna be competitive.
Like if I had to bet right now, I think
Minnesota finishes last in that division. I think Minnesota's gonna
lose a lot because it's hard to win with bad
quarterback play. Like Caleb is up and down, but he's
still better than JJ McCarthy, So I think it would

(52:45):
be If it's anything, it's the NFC West. But like
I think the Niners are taking on so many injuries,
Like their best case is probably nine to eight. Now
they are five and three, which means they have nine
games left. If they go four and five, they're nine
to eight, and I think they would probably be the
seventh seed. After seeing Miles Garrett annihilate the Giants O

(53:08):
line and still losing by nineteen points, You mean the
I think you mean the Patriots. I was thinking how
bad and how dysfunctional and how disorganized the NFL franchise
can be for this long in the last thirty five years,
they had four winning seasons. Will this franchise ever be fixed?
What I don't understand is, and I'm not in the

(53:30):
business of trading talents like Miles Garrett, But when you've
had him for years, for years, and you haven't won anything,
and then he's over thirty years old, he goes, guys,
I want to trade. He says that this are out
and he's still so good that you could have traded him.
I think pre draft you could have gotten two ones

(53:52):
and two twos for a guy that is I mean,
whoever would have given him a contract would basically be
playing for thirty one to thirty five. So Miles Garrett
is twenty. He turns thirty in December, So you could
have traded a guy that twenty nine to thirty four. Right,

(54:15):
you've gotten the best years out of him. He's still
an elite player. But like you bought, you didn't buy
low because you're afting them high. But you've gotten the
best version of him, and you can still trade him
for a lot, Like there's nothing better in the world
of assets. You get a premium, you get to use
that premium for a long time, and then when you
choose to sell that premium it is. You know the

(54:38):
value of it has increased, right, you want an increasing asset.
That's what Miles Garrett was and he told you trade me,
and they said no, and they extended him, Like what's
the point of having him make all these plays and
look sweet and have twenty five sacks on a team
that's gonna win four games? It makes no sense. Now,
I do believe because if you watch their GM, who

(55:01):
treats everyone like widgets, there's no way they didn't want
to trade them and the owner wouldn't let them. So
it all gets back to ownership because it makes no sense.
They could have traded them with their eyes closed. They
would add a bidding war between ten teams. All the
good ones would have been really interested, from the Eagles
to the Ravens, the Bills, the Lions, the Packers, they

(55:21):
all would have been the Niners see out. The teams
would been lined up. But they paid them and now
they still suck. The whole thing's pointless. This is why
I am so critical of the Browns is they get
like so much credit because like God, they're GM. They're
head coach, dynamic individuals like I watch their team, they're
awful always.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
If normal football people, if the Jason Lights of the
World or Spy Techs team just sucks forever, he will
get just shit on at the highest level by everyone
in the media.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
You're just like, ah, the Browns are just checking along.
I don't know, man, Every time I look over and
they're in a little four box, they're getting curb stomped.
Make this a real simple question, how the hell does
Zach Taylor still have a job? You know, it's a
unique organization, and I would guess if when the dust settles,

(56:20):
if they go seven and ten, six and eleven, something
like that with the Flacco situation, and they're liable to
lose any game because their defense stinks. You know, it
was crazy. I wasn't really paying attention to that game
because they were just in complete control the whole time.
And then by the time I did look over and

(56:40):
they're like going for two in the win, I'm like,
what is going on? Which was a cool moment for
Justin Fields. Yeah, I just think that you fire him,
you're gonna get another Zach Taylor. Like, they're not hiring
Steve Sarkisian, right, They're not hiring the Mike Vrabel or

(57:01):
Ben Johnson. They were hiring a guy who they can
get for cheap, and that does sometimes it works, you know.
I mean, they had Marvin Lewis for a long time
and he was pretty successful. Hell, Zach Taylor got you
to Super Bowl. But I would say that it does
seem pretty rare. I could be wrong. Did Marvin Lewis
get fired in season? I don't remember. Marvin Lewis also

(57:22):
did a really good job over the years of hiring
coordinators right. For a long time. They had Mike Zimmers
their defensive coordinator. Jay Gruden was their offensive coordinator. Hugh
Jackson was a really good offensive coordinator for him. That's
part of it. Like they had dynamic group a couple
of years ago. Lou Ammer Runo, I'm watching him with
the Colts, looks like pretty good. It's amazing how good
a coordinator can look when his players a little bit better.

(57:45):
I bet you look like a lot better coach coaching
at Alabama or Georgia than you do Mississippi State. I'm
sick of my Falcons. I have zero emotional attachment to
this abortion of a franchise, but I still watch every
week Sunday at one, and I find myself still rooting
for them. We've all been there, brother, How does ownership

(58:06):
keep screwing up every hire? Our GM is a joke
and gets laughed at, and our coach would be better off.
This is pretty descriptive shit talking. So just fire everybody,
including the equipment guy. So dysfunctional it seems so obvious.
My real question is this, how is it even possible

(58:26):
to be as Jackal and Hyde as we are? I
think anytime that you're really up and down, let's face it,
like they do have some talent. It's a reflection of
the operation. And you know, Arthur Blank, just like any owner,
when they hire the right people, they look pretty good.
When you hire the wrong people, you look pretty bad.
And they try Like I listen, I thought Arthur Smith

(58:49):
was a good hire. His problem was and I'm not
even saying like Arthur's problem, but like that ten years
problem is they couldn't find a quarterback once they got
rid of Matt Ryan, And now it feels like they're
kind of in that mold again. The difference is this
time you're messing with the owner's money. You convinced me
to give ninety million dollars to Kirk Cousins, which feels

(59:10):
like a scam job. Don't blame Mike McCartney is agent
or Kurt for getting that money. But looking back, like
that was like his golden parachute because based off how
he's looked this last year and then yesterday, he should
have got like a one year, seven million dollar deal.
So props to them for, you know, kind of rolling

(59:31):
that into a stupid amount of cash. So it's like,
you completely botched our investment into a quarterback that can't
play while drafting a guy really high that I think
the jury is out, and you hired the biggest coaching
staff in the league. So it's like, I coaches don't
make forty grand. So you know, your coordinators are all

(59:52):
making millions. Your a line coach is probably making a million.
Your wide receiver coach and linebacker coach, these guys are
all making five to eight hundred k. It's a very
Your coaching staffs are very expensive. It's like Jerry Jones
said on an interview earlier this year, like I didn't
want to get into coaching because I wanted some money.
If I would have known what I'm paying coaches nowadays,

(01:00:12):
I probably would have got into coaching, and I think
these coaches it's an underrated scam in America. The amount
of money. Obviously, the good ones worth their weight in gold, right,
But there are a lot of assistants in this league
that because they're buddies with the headman, he gets them
a three year, seven hundred thousand dollars a year job.

(01:00:33):
He couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper blanket.
I mean, the amount of coaching frauds in college pays
a premium too. No different, at least in college. If
you're not a great coach, if you can recruit, you
bring value. Like in the NFL, we don't need your
recruit hell, I don't even care what your opinions are
in the draft. I just need you to coach the
players and ask players, especially players that have bounced around

(01:00:55):
the league. There is a gigantic difference of the good
ones and the bad ones. I mean a Grand Canyon
wide gap. So I don't know, you guys sucks. I mean,
that's why there's not a fix. You can fire everybody,
but if they hire the wrong people, you're just gonna
be back. At this point A again, I do think

(01:01:16):
if they missed the playoffs again, which all signs point
to them missing. Let's say they go seven to ten
or eight nine. I don't see how the owner does
just heads roll, I mean, kind of blow the whole
thing up. I've historically defended the difficulty of being an

(01:01:46):
NFL referee, but how bad does it have to get
for the NFL to acknowledge it? And what do you
think is a realistic response from the league. Would they
address a specific penalty like making past interference reviewable or again,
or do they make all the penalties challengeable In the past,
I would never have expected them to make penalties reviewable,

(01:02:08):
but it might help curb any allegations of fixing games.
That seems like something Goodell would want to get ahead of.
This is a sad part. And I've been gambling on
football for twenty plus years now, and I stopped gambling
on basketball a long time ago. Just listen. I'm not

(01:02:29):
acting like I foresaw this coming, but it's just like
this is I don't even this sucks. I do think
this the NFL doesn't really care. As long as people
are watching and interested in gambling on it and playing fantasy,
they are not going to go above and beyond and
do anything different than they have done. Now, if something

(01:02:49):
dramatically changes, then they will pivot. They are not going
to be proactive on this one would be by guess,
I'd be stunned if we see some dramatic shit with
the officials for whether it's transparency, whether it's beside basic
tweaks of reviewing, which they discuss every single year. But

(01:03:10):
if you think Roger cares that, you and me are
mad when we watch six hours of football at the
officiating blunders. I mean, last night, Aaron Rodgers gets them
to jump No one. My wife's looking at me. She's like,
I don't understand what's going on. I'm like, well, Mario.
One of Aaron Rodgers' great superpowers is when you jump

(01:03:32):
off side as a defensive lineman or a linebacker, whatever,
it's someone on the line of scrimmage. He immediately snaps it.
And then he historically has hit a bunch of big plays.
It's like it's like one of it's gonna be written
about in his football bio one day when he's in
the Hall of Fame. It's like, no one has ever
been better at getting free place than Aaron Rodgers, so

(01:03:53):
he knows it and he was right, and they just
didn't call it. And listen, I don't think Pittsburgh wins
the game whether they call that or not. But it's
like that can't be missed, And I think Roger would
tell you, oh yeah, I can. It was missed and
twenty million people watch. At the end of the day,
who cares? And I think that would be his response.
I don't care. You might care if you had money

(01:04:13):
on the Steelers. Steelers fans care, Packer fans don't, and
the average guy hasn't thought about it since the moment
happened in the game last night for ten minutes and
then he moved on with his life. It's probably true.
This is from Austin. Your podcast is awesome. From Detroit here.
So my Lions had a bye week today, so I'm
watching games around the league. That's a good feeling. You know.

(01:04:34):
It sucks. You realize if you're a big football fan,
right and you had a squad, which most people do,
you look forward to Sunday to watch your team and
then you watch what else is going on around the league.
There is a missing component. When your team is on
a buy You're like am I on football vacation here?
Do I need to do some advanced scouting of our
future opponents? Do I need to kind of get some

(01:04:56):
takes ready for as I'm watching these games. It's a
unique feeling, but also a good one, especially if your
Lions fan, because you need the help. I'm watching games
around the league, and my question for you this week
is about the Falcons. They're a roller coaster. Do you
think after this year they will let Raheem go or
is it more of a GM problem? They pay her
Cousins twenty six million to be the backup. They lost

(01:05:16):
to Miami by twenty four points and Carolina by thirty. Yeah,
I mean, I think they're all in trouble. I mean,
I think the GM that situation was not good. I mean,
the Cousins thing has lasting impacts because that's an enormous contract.
How many guys in the league, I'm talking non quarterbacks

(01:05:40):
have signed for more than ninety million dollars guaranteed. It's
a pretty short list, right, It's like Bosa Parsons, TJ. Watt.
I mean, it's it's a short list of the elites.
Justin Jefferson, right, is the best players in the league
are a little bit more around what Cousins got. So
you paid this much for a quarterback who just can't play,

(01:06:03):
and it's because he's old. I mean, I'm not acting
like Cousins wasn't a good player, flawed, good player, I mean,
had some physical limitations. But the guy we're seeing now
is an old, washed guy which sports. It happens like
your physical limitations and major injury, like like what Rogers.
The difference between Rogers and Cousins is Rogers is a

(01:06:24):
much better arm and he can throw the ball at
a bunch of different angles to generate power. Cousins is
a much more prototypical pocket guy, feet after to be
set in. His arms, definitely stronger than it was ten
years ago. But he'd by no means has a pose,
and he has no athleticism like Rogers doesn't have much.
He can still move around a little bit. And I'm

(01:06:46):
watching Cousins, it just feels like if he was in
his peak, you know, seven and a half eight out
of ten, like a really good player guy you could
win double digy games with the version of him now
is I got three? I mean, he's just he's a
major liability. I think it the end of this season, Like,
I think his career is over. So yeah, I mean,
I think that's that's the type contract it gets you fired.

(01:07:06):
Question for the mailbag. This might be a little niche,
but can you weigh in on the Pablo Tory takedown
of Michael Lombardi. I've always enjoyed Mike is a media personality,
but level to which Pablo went to embarrass him, plus
the enduring dancing on his grave from others was pretty interesting.
What's the opinion on the guy in NFL Circles? I

(01:07:30):
always really enjoyed Lombardi on the podcast. He's my style
of entertainer. He just lets it fly. Whether some of
those are personal vandettas or not, I don't really care.
Like I listened to him for entertainment value, and he
was good. I always thought this I would imagine because
I know, like I'm doing really well, so I would

(01:07:53):
think his media situation, like he was financially making a
lot of money for him to go back. Like I
texted buddy in the NFL that actually sent me, He's like,
you got to listen to this, and this guy's worked
with him before, let me just say that. And so
I listened to it all. I didn't even know what
existed until he sent me that, and it was I mean,

(01:08:14):
it's it's aggressively taking him down. Now, if you work
in the NFL long enough, I don't care who you are,
unless you're like Andy Reid, you're gonna create some enemies.
Clearly he has created a lot. He hasn't even worked
in the league for a decade. I also think Belichick,
like those guys, and I think they take pride in this,
are just known as assholes and they do not care.

(01:08:36):
They do not care. They actually kind of embrace it.
So they pissed a lot of people off over the years.
I can't speak to like, you know, part of the
pablotory thing was he's taken credit for Super Bowls when
he wasn't even on the team. What happened with Bill
Walsh in nineteen eighty five. I mean, I was born
in eighty four. But I do think Pablo I don't

(01:09:01):
know if Belichick or Lombardi did something to him, but
he is spending a lot of energy to go after them.
And if I were those two, I just don't think
this guy's gonna stop. And when you've pissed a lot
of people off and just have a lot of people
that don't like you. They are going to be free
to share the opinions of stuff that they thought. Now

(01:09:26):
he shares like part of the reason Lombardi was fired
in New England, right, he went to work for the
Patriots while the Browns were still paying him. And this
is what Pablo reported that they fired Michael Lombardi. Bob
Kraft told Bill Belichick he had to get him out
of the building because there was a mutiny between Matt Patricia,
Josh McDaniels, Nick Cassario, and a bunch of players and

(01:09:48):
Ernie Adams. I don't know if that's true or not.
So like you're telling me that players wanted Michael Lombardi
out of the building. That seems a little crazy to me. Again,
though I wasn't there, I don't know. I hope one
day someone doesn't do that to me.

Speaker 3 (01:10:05):
Middle Cooff Clayby worked for the Eagles, said he had
a radio job. Dude was working at McDonald's. He's a
fucking liar, Like Jesus, Pablo. I'm sorry, I find it
all kind of entertaining. I just wish Lombardi was not
in North Carolina.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Just podcasting. But dude wants to be a team builder again.
I know a lot of people in the NFL that
know him and like him. Now these are younger guys,
like guys under forty. But I just think, you know,
certain people ruffle feathers. Some people don't, you know. I
do think you could do versions of that though on

(01:10:44):
a lot of guys, like I think you could do.
You could easily do something like that on Howie Roseman
or Pete Carroll, Like if you've been in the league
a long time and you fired a bunch of people
over the years, like you're gonna have people I don't
like you, Kyle Shanahan. I think that'd be a pretty
easy one to do it on You're gonna piss people off.

(01:11:08):
I think it makes more sense as a coach than
an executive. But yeah, it is what it is clearly
pretty ugly. I mean, if you're a North Carolina administrative
or administrator or booster, you're like, God, is this ever
gonna stop? Is this ever gonna stop? And the answer
doesn't feel like it. No. I'm a Bears fan and

(01:11:30):
I'm still not sold on Caleb. I'm with you. I
don't know if he's gonna work in Ben's offense. I
hope he does, but right now he hasn't had a
fluid transition. My question is this, if Caleb doesn't start
to figure things out by the end of the year,
how long will the leash be? Could you see them
trading for an older quarterback for some competition in twenty

(01:11:52):
six if they do not get better. I would say
if they missed the playoffs this year and his quarterback
play continues the way it has been the last couple
of weeks, his spot is in major jeopardy. Now, I
who would be the players that they would quote unquote
trade for right? So, I mean it has to fit.

(01:12:15):
I don't even know. I don't even know the exercise.
Would would Ben want to draft a guy? Would they
trade Caleb Williams? Would you have value on the open market?
You know Minnesota? Would they trade for him? Clearly, Kevin
O'Connell like Caleb Williams a lot. I think a lot
of things would be on the table. But I would
be stunned if they missed the playoffs and he plays

(01:12:39):
poorly that they just say, yeah, Caleb Williams are started
in twenty twenty six. That's not the way it works,
fair or not. You can agree or disagree with the
speed in which we change, but that's the pace of
things now, like that's the pace of business. Want to
hear your take. This is a non football question on
the La Angels signing their new manager. This is funny

(01:13:01):
because I was at the gym the other day and
I look up at the TV and I see the
ticker or the headline they kind of break. I think
it was like Sports Center this story and I had
to do a double take. They hired their manager to
a one year contract. What an unserious franchise. That's a

(01:13:21):
Porta Potty Panthers type move right there. Also want to
hear your thoughts on the Portland Trailblazers head coach John C.
Billups and the gambling scandal. You can't be a serious
organization and sign a manager to a one year contract.
Now I could be wrong on this, but when I
was looking at the TV, the GM also is one

(01:13:42):
year remaining, so they wanted to put Kurt Suzuki is
the manager who actually was the A's catcher for a
long time. Clearly a pretty high level dude. I just
I don't think the average fan I guess like the
diehard fan understands this, but I just say actual sports
fan realizes how a relevant front offices, ownership, and organizations

(01:14:08):
look at the quote unquote manager now like they are
just if you told me they were paying Kurt Suzuki
one year, eight hundred grand like what the running back
coach to Alabama makes. I believe you. And one of
the stories I saw is Albert Pools was gonna be
the next manager of the Angels. Albert Poole's going to

(01:14:29):
sign up to be the manager. As didn't Albert Pools
make I would guess Albert Poolhole's career earnings. My guess
is gonna be let's go three hundred and ninety million dollars.
I'm a little high. Three hundred and forty million dollars.

(01:14:52):
Guy made three hundred and forty million dollars is going
to work for the Angels for not much money in
a one year contract. Not shocked now that we Suzuki
does it one year contract, Pooholes pulls his name out.
You'd have to really really like baseball to have made
three hundred and forty million dollars and want to manage

(01:15:13):
an awful team. Well, you have to play like random
games against the A's in the middle of July that
twenty thousand people were watching total at the game and
on TV one year contract I talked about the Chauncey
Billups thing, I think on Thursday. I mentioned this to
Colin the other day too. I truly believe that tanking,

(01:15:37):
which Adam Silver has been a shepherd over, has allowed
it to happen and has not taken aggressive measures to
make sure it doesn't happen, is the direct reason that
more of this stuff has happened, because if you're not tanking,
it is much harder to manipulate games because people would
notice you can't manipulate games that matter. In the NBA

(01:15:58):
too much of their pro just doesn't matter. And I'm
not talking like you're gonna have random games, especially like
in November that don't necessarily matter. I'm talking like, legitimately,
teams are trying to lose the game as the season
goes on, and I think that leads to stuff like this. Now,
it's like Chauncey Billups has been in touch with the mob,

(01:16:20):
like I'm not quite sure how fascinated Like everyone else,
I need more details. Did he owe them money? Well,
how can a guy worth one hundred million dollars And listen,
it's easy to throw that out there. You know half
of it got tax So then you buy a home,
you buy some stuff. It's not like you have one
hundred million dollars in the bank because you spend a
lot of it, even if you you know not everyone's

(01:16:42):
just like investing in the S and P. Five hundred.
But I've always assumed Chouncey was a smart guy. But
you could go, well, did he get back into coaching
because he needed some more money or is he's a
basketball junkie. I think that comes into question, and did
he need the money to pay these guys back. Once
you get in with these shape characters, they don't exactly
you know, once you were good, you're good. That's at

(01:17:04):
least based on the movies and documentaries I've seen on
the Mob that they don't just like, oh, go on
your merry way. So I'm fascinated to know the connection,
how it started. And yes, Chauncey's degenerate because again, I
I've said this forever. One reason why I have to
pick my spots with sports gambling because I don't get

(01:17:26):
a high from one hundred dollars bet. Now that's why
I do a lot, you know, play like weekend parlays
through a couple like fifty dollars ones because they'll pay
out five grand. But like, for me to get a
high on an individual game, the bet has to be
I mean, even one thousand dollars on a game, I'm
really into it. But if I lose the money, it's

(01:17:48):
like whatever. But once I get to like, and I've
done this before, like the true highs I've had have
been like three, four or five thousand dollars games. Problem
is you can lose a lot of money that way,
you know, I mean, you get and I'm cold right now,
I am cold. All the favorites are just dominating. So
it's money's all relative. If I was a guy like

(01:18:09):
Chauncey Billups, is that one hundred grand a game? Is
that seventy five grand a game? Is that got playing blackjack?
Five grand a hand, ten grand a hand. I So
you just get two different units that if you play
and you don't back out all of a sudden, I mean,
I could lose with the equivalent of what if like

(01:18:30):
this guy had lost five hundred thousand dollars in a weekend. Well,
I could do the equivalent whatever that that is worth
to me with ease. But it's fun, Like I enjoyed
to gamble, So it's like I I and I don't
have an addictive personality, so I can kind of pick
my spots. But I do understand, like I don't get
a high from a fifty dollars bet unless that fifty
dollars bet is on a guy to win the Masters

(01:18:51):
at fifty to one and it's gonna pay out twenty
five hundred dollars, then yeah, I'll pay a little more attention.
A mail back question, Doe, the Steelers have a defensive
coordinator problem. I don't think Terrell Austin is horrible, but
he has no ability to make adjustments. The last four
or five years, we've had a great talent. We've had
great talent, but have had horrible defensive results. Games like

(01:19:13):
the Jets scoring thirty two or Flacco being with the
Bengals for ten days and having the best game in
a decade or in the past few seasons, when they've
made Zach Wilson look great, When can we play based
defense and everything goes to plan? It looks good, But
I don't get why we run the defense specifically when
it isn't working, and I never real never see the

(01:19:34):
adjustments being made. That has to be a coaching issue, right.
Letting Brian Flores walk and not promoting him to DC
when we had him was a huge mistake in my opinion.
I do think your secondary talent is pretty overrated, you know.
I mean, I've watched him now healthy or not healthy,
kind of have similar results. I forgot about that game.

(01:19:57):
To Zach Wilson, it was like his claim to fame
in the NFL. He he looked like a franchise quarterback.
I do think when your pass rush goes away, your
defense sucks. When TJ's dominating, you look sweet. And you
could argue that last night he j Lo hit a
couple of balls. I've only called him j Lo because

(01:20:18):
I was in the car and I had on Fox
Sports Radio and they play they play First Things First
after Coward Show ends, and they were calling him j
Low and I was like, I kind of like that.
But love threw up a couple I don't want to
say prayers, but the one at Tucker Craft that was
how long was that play? Seventy yard play? Yeah? It

(01:20:38):
was a little fifty fifty ball and he threw one
across his body to Christian Watson, which again they were
beautiful outcomes and results. The Watson one was a dime,
but it was I mean, the dB was right there
and probably a couple inches away from tipping it. But yeah,
I mean, I don't think. I think your talent, Like
back in the day, your talent was pretty high end.
You had multiple sweet corners, you had swim linebackers, you

(01:21:00):
had an unreal defensive line and pass rush. You ran
a three to four defense then. But you know James Harrison,
Lamar Woodley, it just was kind of a different animal
with a Brett keesl yes's not really this group. So
I'm not trying to act like Terrell Austin is. You know,
Belichick in his prime as a scheme guy. I do

(01:21:23):
think just your roster and your talent's a little bit
over it. Look at their offense, it's like you go
all in on DK Metcalf. Who's listen, I'd want Dk
Metcalf on my team if I had sweet other players.
They have no other wide receivers. They're starting running back
or they their most talented running back is like a
small scatback who again, who doesn't like Jalen Warren. But

(01:21:44):
it's like, how did this happen? It's like, well, we
drafted a guy in the third round. It's like, yeah,
he can't get on the field. So did you whiff
on that one? Did you misidentify the talent? Because that's
kind of a disaster in a sport that should be
pretty easy to find running backs, you can't do it.
You have all these tight ends. Your offense isn't really
explosive despite having DK Metcalf in Your defense clearly is

(01:22:07):
just not very good. And you know injuries are gonna happen,
so like what happens when TJ miss a couple of games?
You would be screwed. So I think it's easy to
blame the coaches. I think we do that a lot,
and I'm guilty of that too. But I'm watching the
Steelers are going like, I don't see that much talent.
This isn't exactly the two thousand and eleven Steelers, Like,

(01:22:29):
I just think they're personnel on defense is like mah, Like,
if TJ's on, they look good. What about when he's not.
What about when they have no sacks in the game.
If they have no sacks in the game, they're gonna
get shredded. And that's exactly what happened. Now, they did
pressure him a couple of times and he made good plays,
but like that's the NFL because all these guys now
can move and it's a little more dynamic quarterback play.

(01:22:52):
But I think it's easy to blame Terrell Austin. Here's
the thing, isn't Mike a defensive guy. I was watching
was a Hard Knocks a couple of years ago when
they did the AFC North in season. Mike ain't sitting
in with the offensive guys. He's not sitting with Rogers
and Arthur Smith. He says with the defensive guys. You know,

(01:23:14):
I remember the clip I was watching, like Mika Fitzpatrick
walked out of the room and he gave him like
a fifth pound or maybe walked in the room to
say something. He's a the defense is his baby, and
I bet he hangs out with Terrell Austin and that
that group the majority of the time. Shouldn't he be
there to help out. I'm all for a CEO head coach,
but it feels like they're so quick to blame when

(01:23:36):
the coordinators suck well, like what's your air expertise? And
for Mike it's defense in dB play should be his baby,
and their dB play it's terrible. And they blame coordinators
a lot, But who's the offensive coordinator they fired in season?
I think it was like the first guy they had
fired in season in like fifty years. I wanted to

(01:23:57):
say Freddy Kitchens, but it's I'm complete. Oh, Matt Can't Canada,
Matt Canada, Arthur Smith. I mean they're they're offensive coordinators good.
I just think they're They're personnel as a team is
not great. Guess what. I think their personnel staff is
not as good as it once was. It was really
good and then Colbert retired. I just don't think it's
as good. I think people around the league would tell

(01:24:19):
you that the volume mm hmm

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