John discusses the importance of star players and coaches and how they are extremely underpaid compared to how much each franchise is ultimately worth. Next, he dives into Joe Douglas returning to the Eagles as a scout and how that franchise has added another huge piece to the front office. Later, he talks about the NFL announcing a 16 game international schedule and gives his thoughts on having an early game every week.
Lastly, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment.
5:14 - NFL franchise worth
15:13 - Eagles bring back Joe Douglas
27:07 - International games
29:55 - Microsoft
25:49 - Mailbag
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? John Middlecoff three
and out podcast, How are we doing? Hopefully everyone's doing well.
(00:21):
And we're gonna talk a little football today because we
had some news coming out of the owners meetings. We
have a lot of people are still talking about brock Party.
Is he overpaid? Is he underpaid? Are sure that all
these guys aren't a little underpaid? Quarterbacks and coaches in general?
The Eagles hire a former GM. I think it speaks
to what we've been talking about when it comes to
(00:42):
that franchise. The Bengals still had a staring contest with
their first run pick. Everyone's participating in rookie mannicams and
OTAs yet they can't figure it out. And then of
course little mailbag action at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff
is the Instagram. Fire in those dms and get your
questions answered on the show. Appreciate everyone that fires a DM.
(01:03):
If I've missed your DM, make sure to either bump
your message because a lot gets lost in the shuffle.
It doesn't it sound like an Excel spreadsheet where I
can kind of put it in an order. It's just
it's kind of hard if I click on it can
get lost. So if you've asked a question I haven't
(01:23):
gotten to it over the last couple of weeks, you
can just go back in there and bump it if
you want it read. And we're gonna need you because
it's it's the off season, the heavy off season. So
I still appreciate Roger Goodell and the owners making some
making some news. So we got some football stuff to
talk about. But if you subscribe to Collins Podcast, and
(01:44):
that's where you found us, appreciate you. Make sure you
subscribe to three and Out podcasts separate because we do
content that doesn't get uploaded on the feed. Also YouTube channel.
Everything we do goes up on the YouTube channel, so
you can watch us video wise if you would like.
But before we dive into some football talk, you know,
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(03:11):
down the game Time app Today last minute tickets low
as price is guaranteed. You know it's funny and anyone
who invests in the stock market and just keeps an
eye and reads things about the financial institutions and how
they deal with some of these big fortune five hundred
companies and what those individuals in charge of those operations
(03:34):
get paid and are compensated, not just the CEO but
people on the board and the money that flows into
their pockets. Yet, when you look at the NFL, and
I would say this at pro sports in general, the
players are revenue sharing partners with the organizations. With the
(03:55):
entity that are is the leaks and if in the
NBA it's thirty teams and the NFL thirty two teams,
and for every dollar that comes in on a certain
under the umbrella of what categorized as shared revenue, we
split it, you know, forty nine fifty one, fifty to
fifty to fifty one point five, forty eight point five,
whatever the individual deals are. Yet the owners collect that
(04:19):
money and then the players have to fight for it.
It's it's kind of crazy, like the deal I have
with the volume, Like I don't have to fight for
the money that is negotiated in the contract. Right Yet
as a player, whether I'm Brock Purty, whether I'm Micah Parsons,
whether I'm whoever I am. I have to have an
agent who fights for amount of money that is allotted
(04:41):
for me. Now we can negotiate how much that's going
to be. And the better the agent, the better the negotiating,
the more money I get of the pie that is
allotted for me. So it's it's not an easy, uh
position to be in. Despite the money that is flowing,
you're guaranteed to make money as a team, right, And
I just saw the forty nine Ers today shattered a
(05:03):
record for being the highest valuation in the history of
the sport. Because a lot of these teams are now
selling a portion of their franchise to get a cash infusion.
Jed York, I think, just sold like ten percent of
the forty nine Ers and got almost nine hundred million
dollars because the franchise was valued at eight point six billion,
(05:26):
which breaks the previous record of the Eagles, where Jeffrey
Lury did the same thing for eight point three billion dollars.
So it's for most of these guys an incredible investment.
And you know, Jeffrey Lury bought the team the Yorks
and Jed and his parents who technically owned the team.
Jed is kind of the acting CEO and managing partner
(05:48):
got the team because there are you know, Jed's mother's brother,
Eddie de Bartelow, got caught brown bagging a politician in
the late nineties trying to get involved in some riverboat
gambling in the South, and the FEDS were on that
politician and got in trouble and had to divest his
interest in the team. So it's not like they purchased it.
(06:10):
They got it because of, you know, some Donnie Brasco shit.
And I was thinking about it because I actually was
checking out YouTube this morning and I saw Chris Simms
and Florio like this video they had posted how coaches
are underpaid. And I started thinking, and I've been saying
this for a while, if I have a franchise worth
(06:33):
eight point six billion dollars, let's use the Chiefs for example.
I don't know their exact valuation. It would not be
as high as the Niners or the Eagles because of
the market, but relative to how good they are mahomes
and it's rolling, it would be pretty freaking high. Let's
say six billion dollars for the Kansasity Chiefs and Andy Reid,
who is when you have an elite coach like Andy
(06:56):
obviously Patrick Mahomes if I could choose, and I would
probably say Andy. If I could choose Andy Reid or
Patrick Mahomes, I would take Patrick Mahomes. But there is
not another player on that team. Chris Jones, Old, Travis Kelce,
Trey Smith, you name it that you would take over
Andy Reid. Yet Andy Reid, let's just guess, makes fifteen
to eighteen million dollars where you know, in these other
(07:19):
line of work with these billion dollar corporations, the CEO
which Andy is. I mean, when you're the head coach,
you are in charge of everything, and like we just said,
I mean clearly the value of that individual. Sean McVay,
Kyle Shanahan, Jim Harbaugh, you go around like their importance,
Belichick forever, it's pretty important, Nick Saban at the college level,
(07:42):
Kirby Smart now and those guys don't actually make nearly
what they should. And I actually think the way that
it comes out, like no one knows how much Nick
Sirianni makes is not ideal for their business model of
trying to get paid more. And I know Jim Jory
had mentioned when he hired Brian Schottenheimer that at one
(08:03):
point in time in his life he desired to be
a coach, but they didn't make any money. And he said,
looking back, if I knew what they would make what
I'm paying them now, I would have been more interested
in the profession. And I'd argue that they are still
really underpaid because look at Sean McVeigh. What's he worth
through the RAMS, thirty forty million dollars? Like would you
(08:24):
rather have some other coach? Just take your chances on
hiring someone random, or pay Sean McVay what he's making
in double his salary. And like we just talked about
the quarterback position. Whatever Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen and
Lamar Jackson are making is a deal, right. I say
this all the time in the NBA, Like the amount
of guys making max contracts is pretty laughable. There are
(08:47):
countless guys on max contracts. If they disappeared tomorrow, no
one would notice. And then there are guys like Steph
Curry and Lebron James. What they bring to the table
not just for their franchise and the valuation should know
that franchise, but for the league and the television ratings.
You could triple their salary and it probably wouldn't be enough. Right,
(09:07):
you could take every salary in the WNBA and give
it to Caitlin Clark which he's brought to the table,
and she would probably be underpaid. And Brock, perty, we
make such a big deal over how much money you make.
How much was he going to get? Is he going
to eclipse this guy? Is he going to be below
this guy? Like in terms of the value what he
means to the forty nine ers when you just factor
in that a couple years ago they swung and missed
(09:31):
on a quarterback high in the draft and gave away
three first round picks. If he hadn't come along, all
these guys would be fired and the forty nine ers
would be in shambles. I'm old enough to remember when
Jim Harbaugh showed up to San Francisco. They played at
Candlestick and they were doing everything possible to try to
get a new stadium. Then his first year there, they
went to an NFC championship, and then the momentum was
(09:54):
gained and they got a stadium in the heart oft
Silicon Valley that took the Yorks net worth to a
different stratosphere. And when I saw what Jim Harbad did
last year. Whatever Jim Harbaugh is making from the Chargers,
he is vastly underpaid. And I'd say the same thing
about most quarterbacks. Listen, would I want to a tongue
(10:14):
of I Loo as my starting quarterback, I would not.
But his value to the Miami Dolphins, Yeah, they can't
win a playoff game, but they can't win a game
without him. They can't function. So I'm guilty of this.
We bitch and moan all the time. It's like, oh,
you're really gonna give to a fifty million dollars? This
is crazy, well relative to what they have, they are
(10:34):
completely you know what if he's not around, because we
see year and year out when he goes down and
they put whoever in, it's a rap. And to me
and listen, Dak Prescott originally when he signed his first contract,
it's like, guys, you drafted me in the fourth round.
Then Tony Romo's back broke and I saved you guys.
And I think there's an element to that with Bruck Purdy,
(10:57):
like I'm still giving you guys a discount, but never
forget without me, Like if I hadn't been here, y'all
would be screwed, and let's face it, probably be out
of a job. So well, yeah, Kyle, you're probably underpaid.
You would have been fired here a couple of years
ago if I didn't come through. So I do think
that we spend so much time talking about this, the
(11:20):
value of the quarterback, the value the coach, and then
we kind of bitch and moan when they get paid.
And listen, this is an exercise that's never going to
change because it is a salary cap league and how
much you pay these guys does matter. I think the
problem is is when you pay a guy like you
could easily justify, you know that if two as your
(11:40):
starting quarterback, you can win nine or ten games if
you do a good enough job building the team. Like
I when we saw that happened to Trevor Lawrence, I'm like,
I don't know about this. That seems a little crazy
to me. Now, you could probably argue both sides my
issues when you pay a guy that you don't even
know if you can win with. And when I say win,
I don't mean the super Bowl, because winning just regular
(12:01):
season games is how these franchises make money. And if
you're in the playoff every single year, Like you're gonna
have a very very lucrative business where in a business
model where you can't really fail, but there's a way
to make way more money and that's just by going
to the playoffs every year. Ask the Packers and ask
the Steelers, like why the franchises or were so much
(12:21):
money in smaller markets because they've been winning for decades
upon decades. We talked the other day about like, listen,
we can nitpick Sirianni all we want. He can't call place.
You know, he's a young offensive coach that cannot call place,
which yeah, I mean that's a little bit of a
head scratcher. But Mike Tomlin just never called the defense
(12:42):
for the Pittsburgh Steelers. John Harbaugh doesn't call offense or
defense for the Baltimore Ravens, never has, never will. And
we applaud those guys. It's like, well, they just win.
And you look at Sirianni and his record, he's like, well,
this guy just wins. And I just dawned on me
yesterday and if you listen the podcast, we talked a
lot about it, like he really benefits just like those
(13:04):
guys from an incredible infrastructure, and it starts with the owner.
And today, or I guess, within the last twenty four hours,
it was announced the Eagles are bringing back Joe Douglas
after just losing a couple guys to the Raiders, and
who knows, maybe there'll be more announcements. They've lost several
people from their front office. Now. Granted the Eagles have
(13:26):
one of the bigger front offices, if not the biggest,
in the NFL. Well, what does that tell you? Their
owner spending a lot of money and last year, what
happened when Vic Fangio got out of his deal. He
made Jeffrey Leary, made him the highest paid coordinator in
the NFL. What happened this year when Joe Douglas was available,
which in NFL circles personnel moves usually happen in terms
(13:49):
of hiring after the draft. The hired Joe Douglas. And
it's not like he's getting paid from the Jets anymore.
Remember his contract is over. And this gets back to
the difference. The way too separate in the NFL because
everyone abides by the same rules. We all have the
same amount of cap space, we all have the same
amount of draft picks, we just get to pick and
choose how we want to allot them. Do we want
(14:10):
to trade for a player, Do we want to pay
this guy, do we want to We could do whatever
we want. Right The Atlanta Falcons chose next year to
not have a first round pick because they wanted James
Pearce on their roster. Don't blame them. I mean I do.
I think it's a super trade, but like that's their progative.
They're allowed to do what they want to do. So
I think Jeffrey Lurie has really really taken advantage of
(14:32):
his situation by just spending a lot of money when
it comes to coaches in front offices, and that's an
easy way. Like this is all in the margins, right,
The difference of everybody in the NFL, especially the top
six eight ten teams, is really really small. We've seen
like how close these playoff games are against the Ravens
(14:53):
and the Bills, against the Rams and the Eagles, right
these it's a play here, a play there. So it's
it's really really small at the highest level, and you
got to take advantage of where you can, just like
in any line of work. So all these teams are
flush with cash, some people just spend more of it.
I mean, look at the Bengals. They are in this
(15:14):
staring contest right now with I've defended them a little
bit with the Trey Hendrickson thing. Older player. It's just
it's just complicated. It's just it's not black and white.
Just give them an unlimited amount of money. I understand
both sides, but the Shamar Stewart. They're starting OTAs and
he's still not practicing. Like we're at the point now
(15:35):
this is kind of embarrassing. Every other first round pick
participated in in rookie mini camp. Now that OTA's are starting,
a ton of guys have already signed their contract. These
contracts are slotted. The only negotiation is just a cash flow.
You're paying them no matter what. So whether it's an
extra two million in year two or the following year,
(15:57):
you're giving them that money no matter what. And it's
all based on precedent, so the agent can only argue
what's happened previously, and if the previous years have had
it happen, then you just give it to him and
you move on. Because at this point in time, when
you're talking about a rookie contract, all these franchises are
worth billions. You have guys on your roster now, Jamar Chase,
Joe Burrow making hundreds of millions of dollars, so you
(16:21):
are arguing over a million or two right at most
three or four million dollars. He's the whatever seventeenth pick
in the draft, so the total value of the contract
isn't even that big. It's like listen living with Maria
and watching her in real estate. The amount of people
that argue, it's like, you get to a number, we're
offering eight hundred and fifty grand, they want it for
(16:43):
eight hundred and seventy five thousand dollars, and they get
to like, I'm at eight sixty five, You're at eight
seventy two. It's like, guys, you're gonna let a deal
worth almost nine hundred thousand dollars fall through over three
or four thousand dollars, which the mortgage is set up.
You won't even fucking notice. And it's crazy how often
(17:05):
this happens. It honestly, it really is. And occasionally one
of the sides will realize, like, what are we talking about,
Let's just get the deal done, because in the grand
scheme of things, it's a tiny, tiny, tiny number. Now,
if you just say two million dollars out loud, that's
an enormous number to ninety nine point ninety percent of people.
(17:26):
But the way the NFL is structured, the way the
Bengals are structured, and what we're talking about here is
laughable and to me, like perception oftentimes does become reality.
And then I think when you finally shake it and
it's like, hey, this guy you know, used to be
an asshole, used to be selfish, it's changed his personality.
He's a much better guy now. You should give him
(17:48):
a second chance, right, whether that's dating him, whether that's
employing him, whatever it may be. How often you've heard
that with you know, your wife's friends, your girlfriend's friends,
your your people in your life life, whether it's people
they work with. It's like, he's a better person now,
you know. He just he's done some self reflection. He's
just he's grown, he's matured. I think we tried to
(18:09):
start saying that about the Bengals a couple of years ago,
and then they find themselves back in situation like this,
like that there is no way to really defend like
these are embarrassing moments and these are like the Trey
Hendricks thing. Situation is not always avoidable complicated. I was
reading the other day because I was like, well, you
were the guy that signed with the Bengals. Originally, like
(18:30):
you got into business when they gave you a massive
free agent contract years ago, and then in twenty twenty
three he signed a one year extension. Why got more money?
Got more money, then obviously kept playing well, outperformed it,
and now they're at this staring contest. But originally, like
you had all these other options, they were offering the most,
(18:52):
and you were willing to get into bed and get
into Joe burrowdn't have a choice. The Jamar Chase didn't
have a choice. Higgins didn't have a choice. They were
drafted by these teams. You became a free agent and
once upon a time you said you know what, I'll
sign up with these guys, and then being there, you
signed an extension on that original contract. So it's like
there are a lot of variables here. The Shamar Stewart
(19:13):
thing is like you drafted me, here are the rules,
president of the contract. Like you want to dance, lets dance,
But this is what it is. And I just think
their mindset. And I've said this forever. Once you're cheap
in life, it doesn't change just because you have money,
once that is embedded in your soul, in your core,
(19:33):
like Tiger Woods didn't grow up with any money. One
of the most famous stories about Tiger Woods with the
Navy Seal stuff was when he took all the Navy
seals out after training with them in San Diego to
cheeseburgers at a local restaurant. I forget the number of
people that he took out. Let's just pick a number
ten and the bill came and Tiger wanted to split it.
(19:55):
It's like Tiger and notoriously Tiger was and I've heard
stories about my Michael Jordan as well, are just cheap.
They were cheap when they were ten, they were cheap
when they were twenty, and now they're cheap when they're
fifty or sixty and they're super rich. It doesn't change.
It's in your soul. I'll believe this till the day
I die. Just like people that are giving people, whether
they are poor rich, it's just it's embedded in them.
(20:18):
You have it at a young age. And I think
the Bengals that organizational philosophy starts with the family. They
view their franchise through the lens of back in the
seventies and the sixties, because that's when they got into it.
I said it forever about the Spanoses. They came in
with the mindset of like the financial setup of the
eighties or whenever they bought it. It's like, guys, it's
(20:39):
the twenty tens, and if you're going to keep employing
these average coaches, you don't get to complain when you
lose just because you want to have a low paid coach,
Like that's going to lead to poor results. And finally
they realized it and they gave Jim Harball a lot
of money and look what happened first year playoffs. This year,
most people are a lot of people gonna pick them
(21:01):
to probably win the division. So I just think the Bengals, man,
this is who the family is, like, this is what
you're arguing over. Give me a fucking break. The NBA
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Speaker 1 (23:07):
Goodell listen. I don't mean it to my own horn.
I don't pretend to be some genius, but you could
see this one coming from ninety miles an hour or
ninety miles away. This was as clear as day, and
the breadcrumbs have been laid. Roger Goodell said, I do
see us having sixteen overseas games in the next five years.
(23:29):
The NFL is going to have an international package. They're
going to have an international package sixteen straight weeks at
six thirty Pacific Standard time in the morning. It was inevitable.
We knew it was gonna happen. And when he says
five years, guess where the negotiating window is for their
new television deal twenty twenty nine. So they're kept adding
(23:52):
these international games. They're putting together a package where Amazon, Netflix, CBS, Fox,
who knows any entity can bid on this thing. You're
going to have like Thursday Night Football, a it's not
technically primetime because in the morning, but a by itself
(24:13):
game package where you're not competing with anyone else. That's
the power of Thursday Night Football, Sunday Night Football, and
Monday Night Football. There is no counter NFL programming. It
does not exist. For as awesome and as big as
the CBS and Fox Game of the Week are in
the afternoon a lot of times, like Fox does have
(24:34):
another game going on. So if it's Packers Vikings, is
Tom Brady and Kevin Burkhart and that's a huge game
and going to do millions of viewers. The forty nine
Ers might be playing Arizona Cardinals also on Fox on
the second tier, right, Well, you don't have to do
that with this package coming up. So I would imagine
(24:56):
this is going to be a massive new revenue source
and feels like a lot now. I think the international games,
like I understand what they're doing of building the fan base,
and that's a big deal to the streamers because you
can stream a game from wherever. This is not local
Fox in Arizona. That I can watch the Cardinals, like
(25:17):
if the Cardinals are on Amazon Prime, like I can
watch them in Australia if I want, I can watch
them in Germany. I can watch them anywhere. I think
those people get I can sign an Amazon Prime. Maybe
I need a VPN, but obviously Netflix is a worldwide company.
So Roger Goodell is telling you, so get ready because
this is something you know. For me personally, like I'm
(25:39):
not really looking forward to that, Like it's I've had,
Like I have enough football in my life. I don't
need that extra game on a Sunday. Uh. But like
I'm not gonna argue over because it's inevitable at this
point in time. Okay, before we get out of here,
let's I want to welcome you to Chasing Challenges brought
to you by Microsoft in the NFL, just like in
(26:01):
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In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges
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(26:22):
Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise
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on flag football. They're allowing the pros to play in
twenty twenty eight Olympics in flag football. Safe to say,
(26:44):
I would like our chances if guys like Kyler Murray
or Saquon Barkley or Justin Jefferson are allowed to play.
But I think one challenge for the NFL, speaking of streaming,
is growing the sport. Growing the sport not only domestically
but internationally. In football, and I've heard a lot of
people say this, which is clear. Like in basketball, even
(27:06):
in the pros, I can get ten pros and we
can have a pickup game in the offseason, even if
it's not quite NBA standards. We can get really serious
call fouls and play the sport in baseball, as long
as I got a pitcher in a batter, I can
just do simulated batting practice in football shorts and a
T shirt. Like I'm not actually playing football. Right, You
(27:28):
need a helmet, you need shoulder pads, you usually need referees, coach,
you need a lot. Right. You can't call your own pis.
That's not the way it works. But flag football has
always been an element of like, it's actually pretty easy
to play. We've all kind of done it. In one thing,
the NFL has done a really good job of, i
would say, over the last half decade, becoming like this
(27:49):
mix of sports meets reality show and just its importance
in the culture. Has been adding a huge, huge female audience.
And one thing they've been pushing is trying to get
flag football into high school, and not just in high school,
but for girls. Well, if I get a girl. The
reason football is so popular in America is because, by far,
(28:12):
and that's got a lot of different reasons, but by far,
of all the high school sports, the most amount of
kids play football in their youth. And if you play
something usually just pay attention to it. That's usually when
you become a fan. Or if you're young, you become
a fan, you want to try and play it. And
if I can open that up to maybe some people
(28:32):
that aren't physically big enough and don't feel comfortable getting tackled,
and obviously girls that don't play tackle football, it just
adds to the business model. So the challenge for the
NFL is like, how do we keep growing? Have we peaked?
They never think like that. That's how losers like, aren't
you rich enough? Just stop? If you get on the internet,
(28:54):
people always tell you that. Right to other people, it's like, yeah,
that's usually not how winners think. When you get aggressive,
you get extra aggressive. And the NFL has proven that
time and time again. They see an inch, they want
a mile, and they go pedal to the metal, one
hundred miles an hour every step of the way. And
the league has never been more popular. There's never been
(29:14):
more people watching, and they want more because in business,
you're either growing or you're dying. Obviously a huge challenge
for Roger Goodell who has to take into account everyone
in the NFL, all the coaches, the gms, and the players,
but also try to drive the revenue. So all those
guys who always want more money. It's like that money's
not just going to come from this guy. Well, this
is clearly an area. I mean, the flag football with
(29:35):
the NFL players is the headliner, but flag football is
something that they're all in on. And the challenge for
the NFL is like, how do you get more people
to watch? And the way to get more people to
watch is to get more people to play. So that's
it for this week's Chasing Challenges. Remember Microsoft's AI solution
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(29:58):
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com Slash Challengers to learn more.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
of programming that goes beyond the game. From action pack
live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries, to hard
hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams,
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(30:36):
makes sports truly Unforgettable Catch live events and other exclusive
sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vicetv dot
com to find your cable channel.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Okay, mail back time at John Middlecoff's the Instagram. Firing
those dms, get your questions answered here on the show.
Very very easy to get involved. We need your participation
this summer and DM's open for anything, obviously football, but
you know, firing any other thoughts you may have. We
will start with the will longtime listener and love the show,
(31:10):
but I hate your opinion of the Falcons. They have
whiffed on quarterbacks since Matt Ryan retired. How are they
supposed to win your respect with Mariota and Desmond Ritter?
You say it all the time, he's a coach and
quarterback league. With that logic, I'd rather swing at Kirk
Cousins than see one more game of that. You never
call out other franchises who have quarterback issues as soon
(31:35):
you never call them dogshit franchises. Did I say that
about the Falcons? As soon as that position hits, all
of our problem go away. It's a quarterback problem. The
offensive stacked, and if Pennix the new pass rushers can
be decent, they will run the NFC South. I pray
to God every night before I fall asleep that they
finally shove it up your ass this year. You know,
(31:58):
let Diddy watch on that one. I would say this
that my lack of respect for the Falcons is how
they run the organization. And ever since kind of the
dan Quinn Dimitrov thing fell apart, and the Arthur Smith
font and no crue and then threw last year with
(32:19):
Raheem who everyone was bullish on and thought like, oh,
he's gonna He's gonna change the world. And I listen,
everyone likes him. I don't know him personally, but McVeigh Kyle,
these people swear by him. Everyone that knows them thinks
highly of him. Easy got a root for and then
they come in they desperately need defense. They fall in
(32:41):
love with Michael Pennix. After they give Cousins eighty ninety
million dollars guaranteed. It's like that that's a poorly run operation,
because if they could do it again, and they knew
they were gonna draft Pennis at eight, they could have
just signed a random quarterback for five or ten million
dollars and allocated those fun for Wilkins from Miami signed
(33:04):
some defensive, high end players because they had a bunch
of money to spend, but they were like fell in
love with Cousins and then their draft process was all
out of whack, and then they clearly fell in love
with Pennix, where Pennix was not some like didn't need
to sit. This isn't J J. McCarthy. There's a twenty
four year old kid who had been starting in college forever,
plug and play guy who I'm high on. I like
(33:26):
that player, but like the previous year you went into
like you're gonna start Desmond Ritter, Like what are we doing?
And you can say it's a quarterback problem. Yeah, it's
a quarterback problem, but like that was like you're gonna
go into the season with him starting. I also think
the four straight year or three straight years of drafting
offensive skill guys. I like b John Robinson, like I
(33:49):
get it, like he's I think he could be one
of the better players in the NFL. But like drafting
the tight end who can't block anybody, and then the
next year taking London who's a good player. But it
just doesn't feel like they have any organizational philosophy. Their
owner is eighty five years old, worth an ungodly amount
of money, putting himself in the Hall of Fame, in
(34:11):
his own hall of fame, Like he's kind of just
in his own little world. Who again, everyone likes the guy, Sure,
he's a great guy, but when it comes to football,
I don't think it's safe to say they know what's
going on. So, like, do I think you're like a
dog shit franchise? Like clearly it's a high end, lucrative operation.
Sweet stadium, some history with the franchise, but like I
(34:33):
feel like the people driving the bus right now don't
know where they're going. And we someone asks, like how
why do some teams have an identity and some teams don't?
And we talked about this with the Steelers starts with
the owner, the Eagles starts with the owner, The Raven
starts with the owner. It's pretty rare that, Like the Crafts,
I don't think really they know what's going on. But
(34:55):
it doesn't matter. They had Bill forever, right then they
get Vrabel who learned under Bill. So it's like, I
don't know, I don't know. I think you guys, now
who knows panics is good? Like you said, maybe you'll
be solid, but run the division. The reason the Bucks
are good is because like the Gladi's like, yeah, we
don't really know what's going on. Once upon a time,
(35:15):
we gave it all to Gruden, and now we give
it all to Jason Light. Jason Light's better than anything
you got. And like, this is football, while it's very complicated,
Like it's kind of important who's running your franchise. They
got Baker Mayfield, but who's running the franchise. Jason LT
(35:35):
knows what he's doing. I just feel like you guys
don't know what you're doing. I mean, honestly, the trading
a future first round pick for a guy who, like, again,
these aren't my opinions, was off boards, been well reported,
texting around people, They're like, it wasn't on our board.
It's like, what are we doing? How? And you guys
(35:58):
aren't good enough to take like question Hell, a couple
of years ago you had the chance to take Jalen Carter,
but it's like I'm a little too questionable, and now
you take questionable people. It's like you ever won shit
since then? What changed? How big of an advantage if
any is knowing the other GM in an NFL trade.
I'm a huge Rams fan, and it seems like whether
(36:18):
less Sneed is dealing with the coach or GM who
previously worked for the Rams, a really good deal for
the Rams seems to materialize getting Stafford from the Lions
the first rounder we just got from the Falcons. Now
that Gladstone is in Jacksonville, if we deal with the
Jags in the future, would Snead have the advantage of
knowing Gladstone's tendencies or vice versa. Also, my four year
(36:42):
old son is addicted to watching golf. I've never played
around in my life. You have any tips into getting
him started, I'd appreciate it. Uh. I would just say
that take him the driving range, get him a set
of like little kids clubs, and have him go wax
and ball. We'll see if he really likes it, you know.
(37:03):
So I would do that. Get him a putter, get
him like a driver, and get him like a little
iron and just take him to like a public driving
range and have him go whack away. I would say
on the Rams thing, you know, I would agree on
the Falcons trade. I mean that was every GM in
the league would have made that trade for less Need.
(37:23):
So I don't know if they just took advantage of desperation.
I mean, Raehie Morris is one of mcveigh's best friends
and he's a defensive guy, so clearly he wants that player.
I would say on the Stafford thing, I mean they
gave up two first round picks. You know, golf obviously
now would be very valuable, but at the time wasn't.
(37:45):
But they included so they got golf in two first
round picks. You know, the Lions had their choice, like
the Niners and the Rams both really wanted Stafford. Both
were offering two first round picks Jimmy Garoppolo or Jared
Goff and they benefited because as Homes had been from
LA or worked in LA and knew golf. So yeah,
(38:05):
I don't know. He just clearly all things are just
working out in their favor now, granted like last year.
You know, it's crazy and this is why I think
you got to be careful. And I'm guilty of this
of this draft sucks. This draft's good or even my
buddies in the league, like I hated this draft. I
don't know what the Niners were doing there. I didn't
love this. I love this I remember last year, it's like, God,
(38:28):
the Rams traded that much to get Braden Fisk. I
remember talking to people that thought that was pretty crazy.
I mean, I I think that's a pretty good deal
looked it looks like after one year. So I just
think we never know, you know. I think the Stafford
golf trade is just an all time win win. I mean,
the Lions do not regret that they traded Stafford, who
(38:49):
didn't want to be there anymore. They ended up getting
picked six that they turned into Gibbs and Laporta. They
got Jared Goff, So I think think it's kind of
I think Jameis and Williams too, if I remember correctly. Yeah,
I mean I wouldn't put that one underneath like fleecing
for the Rams. But I hear what you're saying. I
(39:11):
don't know. I mean, I would say, I Gladstone, I'd
want to do a deal with him because that that's
a pretty easy deal for the Browns to do. And
I like Travis Hunter, but holy shit, I'm not a
forty nine Ers fan. But I remember you saying you
would play hardball with Brock Purdy and giving him two
hundred plus million would be a mistake. Well, he didn't
(39:31):
get two hundred million in guarantees, but man, that contract
is insane. Didn't hear any reporting about negotiations going back
and forth like last year with Ayuk. It might be
Monday morning quarterbacking, but it seems like trading Ayuk was
seems like not trading Ayuk was a mistake. And the
pretty contract feels risky too, when the state of an
unproven roster. What are the forty nine ers doing? And
(39:54):
have they lost their fastball? I mean, I've said this
over and over. I think they got a deal. I mean,
ideally you would have got like Baker Mayfield's contract, but
it's pretty clear they were never going to accept that.
And after the last three years of I would say
no team had three consecutive years of holdouts, some years
multiple players. The Niners didn't want to deal with that,
(40:17):
and I don't think brock Perty wanted to deal with that.
It's why I respect Micah Parsons, who's just showing up
to practices. It just makes getting everything done easier. Just
show up, make the other person want to do a
deal with you. I think sometimes the holding out. I'm
not against holding out, but it just creates, especially in
this day and age of media and social media, just
(40:38):
such a shit show. The Auk thing was an embarrassment,
and I think the forty nine ers once they got
to training camp, he could deny trades because the only
way trade would go through is he had to accept
their terms. So like they were trading him away and
he kept saying, no, I'm not signing the Patriots, I'm
not signing with the Browns. What they should have done
(40:59):
is traded up before the draft. It was a huge
mistake because by then he probably would have accepted. Once
he got to training camp, he has heels dug in
and clearly, I mean they would have traded him at
the combine, but no one will take a guy with
a shattered knee. Now I'm not saying that the deal
is a disaster because he got injured. No one, you
can never predict an injury, But like that, that was
(41:21):
an embarrassing moment for the forty nine ers. It truly was,
and everyone, the Mayokos, the Kawakami's, the Barrows, all the
guys that cover the Niners closely, I mean well reported
that that was something that made the forty nine ers.
They didn't like that, and they've been through tough contract negotiations,
but Purdy was never going to do that. I think
(41:42):
there was a little bit of a reward for saving
their ass. Now you can say, is that great business
or not? I mean, but he did. And I also
think this that when you factor in that Brock Purdy
got fifty million dollars less in total guarantees than Dak Prescott, Like,
that's a pretty big win. That's a pretty big win. Now,
I'd argue that they were never going to give him
(42:04):
Dak Prescott money, but like that contract exists, and I
don't think there's much difference between the two, especially when
Brock's younger and moves much better. So yeah, I would
say that, you know, in the day and age of
quarterback contracts, I would say that that deal is pretty normal.
You know, it really is. Now, it's a win for party.
(42:24):
It's a ton of money, right, But I think for
the forty nine ers, they probably at one point in
time prepared like if this thing got ugly, we would
have had to pay more. I know, you primarily cover.
(42:48):
I hate the word cover because I'm not like a reporter.
I know, it's just a most of you don't care
about like the semantics of my job. I just watch
games and give my opinions on them. I wouldn't say cover,
but listen, that's maybe an insecurity of mine. I hear
what you're saying, and I'm not putting it. This isn't
your fault, but I'm wondering if you ever got into
(43:08):
the NHL with the physicality, pace of play, and effort.
It seems like a sport you'd mentioned more in your podcast, Gocaines,
I've gotten into it more in the last couple of years.
That whatever they're all star thing. I forget the name
the four Nations. I mean is that USA Canada. Those
(43:29):
two games are two of the better sporting events any
sport I've seen in recent memory. I was glued have
nothing but admiration. I think I view hockey like I
do MMA. I don't really watch MMA, and I know
some of you that like get all the pay per views.
I respect the living I couldn't have any more respect
(43:51):
for what it takes to get in the octagon. How
big of a badass all those guys are. I love
Dana White, I love that operation. I admire how they
handled twenty twenty. He was the first guy that'd been
like fuck this. A lot of people followed suit, and
I just I admire a lot of things about the MMA,
I don't watch it. I would say similar with hockey,
(44:14):
Like I respect the living shit out of the players,
how hard it is to play that sport, how they
all are missing teeth because they're all getting pucks to
the face, how tough you have to be to play hockey.
But I just don't really watch. Now I will pay
a little more attention, like to the Final four here,
I would love to see Edmonton. When I made a mistake,
(44:35):
I put one thousand dollars at ten to one on
the Capitals, and I thought about splitting it going five
hundred five hundred on Edmonton. I obviously a huge regret.
I wish I just would have put that on Edmonton,
who was like eighteen to one. I think the Caps
were ten to one in your Canes just beat the
shit out of them. I remember watching last year I
had the Vancouver and watching Edmonton take them down. I
(44:58):
would love to see McDavid win it. But I don't
pretend like I'm not a huge hockey guy. I just
don't really. I only have so much time in my life.
I spend so much time watching football in the fall,
and golf's Thursday through Sunday, you know, basically year round,
which I consume, but definitely when football, I don't miss
really many golf days. Besides, if I'm out playing, so
(45:20):
I just I don't know. I just only have so
much mental energy to put in. Doesn't mean I don't
have a lot of admiration and respect for the sport.
I know you're not a big soccer guy, but you're
a Niner guy. I'm from Glasgow, Scotland, and my rival team,
the Rangers, I'm a Celtic guy. He's talking soccer is
in the midst of a takeover from the forty nine
(45:41):
er Enterprises. Curious to see if this is gaining any
traction at all in the States, as it's massive news
over here. The takeover should be complete soon and sadly
means the Rangers might actually be good enough to compete.
I suppose My question is two parter one, have you
heard of this news at all? Based off your knowledge
(46:01):
of running an NFL franchise, how would you see the
enterprise running a huge European soccer team. Ps If you
get any time read up on the old Firm Derby
biggest and best rivalry in sports. Well, the forty nine
ers bought years ago a franchise called Leads, and I
think they just within the last couple months qualified And
(46:24):
they had done this before for the Premier League. Again,
they had been they had qualified for the Premier League
and been knocked down, and now they're back and they
threw a huge like parade in the area. And you know,
the forty nine ers have a unique setup, right, Like
Howie kind of runs point on most things. It's not
like he negotiates every detail of every contract, but ultimately
(46:46):
nothing gets signed off without him. The forty nine ers,
like John Lynch, they have a cap crew that's kind
of run by Parrague, who is Jed York's right hand
money guy. And Parrague runs point on the soccer And
I know Prague a little bit. I haven't talked to
him in a while, but like Leeds was a huge
passion project of his and he used to tell me
(47:07):
like they were a sleeping giant. And they have brought
people from America to run it over there, and it's
they've done a good job like that. They take it really,
really seriously. So if he is heavily involved in this,
I would imagine it's gonna work. I would bet on
it working. I think what they've tried to do is
(47:29):
like obviously, you know the Glazers or stan Kronky on
some of the main teams, like to get a main team,
now you need billions of dollars. I think they've tried
to like buy sleeping giants and resurrect them. Obviously it's
just cheaper to buy. It's like I remember Coward told
me years ago. He's like, if you can't afford it,
it makes more sense to find a home that you
(47:51):
can remodel yourself. Then find a home that's already been flipped,
and they're adding fifty percent to the sticker price because
you're paying for their remodel then to make a profit
on And it's like, yeah, it's why the house I'm
living in right now was a full gut job. But
the house would have been worked double if the person
(48:11):
before me had done what I did to it, so
it actually saved me money. And I think that I
look at the way the forty nine ers operate, you know,
they're not trying to find a deal necessarily they're just
trying to find something with a lot of upside, and
the way you just described it, I would imagine as
the way they viewed it. And Parrague is good with money.
(48:32):
I want to know what you think about the quarterback
win stat For example, a lot of people in the
media mentions Joe Burrow beating the Chiefs when Mahomes throws
two picks, but when a guy like Alan goes nuclear
against the Chiefs, he just can't get it done. Should
Josh play some edge rusher next year to help on defense?
(48:54):
I think a lot of the media elites, the over
educated group that always loves any sort of a narrative
to shut down because the people pushing that aren't intellectually
you know, their capacity isn't quite on their level. And
I view this as a classic. Like the media love
(49:14):
saying quarterback wins are not a stat, I would agree
in an individual situation. In a playoff game, you can
lose a playoff Aaron Rodgers has lost playoff games where
he's played well. Earlier on in the McCarthy era, he
played well in games the defense was atrocious and they lost.
That's happened. But you could not be a good quarterback
(49:37):
over the course of five years and have your team
not win a lot in the regular season. Now, individual
playoff games you can play crappy. One play can determine it.
Josh Allen has played well in a lot of playoff
games in which he's lost. I would say Patrick Mahomes
has played to average in some games that they've won. Right,
So it's like, totally agree playoff quarterback wins shouldn't be
(50:02):
a stat but your win lost record as a regular
season quarterback does matter, right, it just does. Like I
actually view last year with Joe Burrow winning nine games
pretty impressive. But I hate it when people go quarterback
wins is not a stat, well bullshit over the course
of multiple years it for bet Your ASCID is why
(50:22):
do we think the positions so important? Because if you're
a good player, you're gonna win a lot of games.
I don't care how average your team is unless you're
playing on one of the worst teams ever. Like, if
you put Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow or Lamar Jackson
on who just drafted number one the Titans, Yeah, actually
they probably would have won like eight nine games because
they had a good defense. They would have been good,
(50:43):
big fan of the pod. I'm a dyared Browns fan,
which sucks most of the time, but they seem to
always leave you with slivers of hope. For example, this year,
I don't expect them to win many games. However, there's
the hope that these two rookie quarterbacks in Gabriel and Sanders,
that they could be the guy we've been searching for.
But in my opinion, they have to play these guys
(51:04):
as much as possible to figure it out. There's the answer.
Given that we have two first rounders in the next
year's draft and good talent coming in at the quarterback position.
What are your thoughts on the Browns floor and ceiling
for the season, and do you think they should start
one of these two rookies and forget about Flacco and
Pickett for twenty twenty five. I think I saw a
(51:26):
headline today that Mary Kay, who is basically the encyclopedia
and Walter Cronkite when it comes to the Browns knows All,
reported that the first team reps starting at OTAs will
be Kenny Pickett and Dylan Gabriel. My guess is that
with the ones that Joe Flacco won't get any reps
(51:49):
with the ones during OTAs, and that's smart. He doesn't
need any All the reps should go to because Kenny
Pickett might be your starting quarterback. I don't have an
issue with that, but I think Dylan Gabriel, who was
drafted above Shador, totally get that. And Shador Sanders like,
give them reps right now, and then in training camp
(52:10):
you have some idea bring them back and give it
a week, kind of rotate, and whoever's playing better starts
getting more reps moving forward. But you could argue, don't
even start Joe Flacco. I think it's actually, when I
just came out of my mouth, I think what makes
it difficult to do that at least week one or
week two is that if everyone on the team thinks
(52:31):
he's the best quarterback, it's hard to look Miles Garrett
and some other guys I almost dropped, like some other names, like, yeah,
Nick Chub's not even on the team. Is Mark Cooper
on the team? Has a Mark Cooper signed?
Speaker 3 (52:42):
That?
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Did Mark Cooper sign anywhere? But you know some of
your veteran players, they're trying, they're playing their ass off,
and if they think that Dylan Gabriel shad Or Sanders
starts week one, They're not the best quarterback. They're not
gonna love that. Now you can easily do that, like
after a month, but I would. I guess A'mari Cooper
was traded last year to the Mills. Huh. I listen
(53:04):
to it every day. Really great stuff. I'm a little
confused on the narrative that Stafford is significantly better than perty.
Last year, Party and Stafford had almost identical numbers, but
Stafford had less had four less picks. Stafford also has
the benefit of having a better defense and healthier offense
than Brock, yet Brock and him had the same stats. Also,
(53:24):
Brock is significantly better runner than Stafford. Everyone says they
would take a thirty seven year old Stafford over twenty
five year old Party, and it truly makes no sense
to me? Is it? Because Stafford has a ring and
Party doesn't well like for the next five years, you
would have to take Party if I had to play
a big game on the road in the elements, like
(53:46):
Purty has been awful in rain and Cold. Luckily he
plays in San Francisco and he avoids that. But that
game that Stafford had against the Eagles in that snow
shitty weather, like I have zero faith than Perty can
have that. So in a one game I would take
Matt Stafford. I would also say, in a one game
scenario against the best competition, I would take the thirty
(54:07):
seven year old Matt Stafford. But over the contract that
Purty just got, I would give that to Party over
giving it to Stafford over the next four or five years. Right,
So I think in a short, short window, Matt Stafford
on an individual game basis, is a better player. I
think Matt Stafford at times last year is a top
five quarterback in the NFL. And I just don't think
(54:28):
that about Perty now. I also don't think Perty's like
the twentieth quarterback. But I think Stafford's a better player
now if they were the same age, like, Stafford is
in a different universe as a talent, and if you
gave there's a reason that Kyle Shanahan wanted a trade
for him when MCVA ended up getting him. He wanted
him why because Stafford is a special, special player. Now
he's older and beat up, but and there's a reason
(54:51):
they're going year to year. But I think when it
just came to a one game basis, if all the
marbles were on the line, there's only a couple quarter
in the NFL. If they're all healthy, I would want
over Matt Stafford. Okay, last question, what do you think?
Why do you think the NHL is always the fourth
most popular North American sport? The product is clearly much
(55:11):
better than the NBA, and the players actually care about
the sports and the games. What does the NHL have
to do to get more popular? We talked about this
with football. Every single human I knew growing up, whether
you played in high school, whether you played in junior high,
whether you just played pickup had played a little basketball,
(55:32):
because most people at one point in time in their
life just shoot baskets, played pickup hoops, watch basketball on television.
It's an easy sport to play wherever you live, right.
I've only lived in one cold area place in Philly
for a couple of years. Other than that, I've lived
in areas that it does not snow, Arizona, Fresno, the
(55:55):
Bay Area, Davis, San Luis, Obispo. So what you play
in high school, what you grow up playing in when
you're young, is to me, what you usually gravitate toward.
Usually diehard tennis people like in junior high, high school.
If you play in college, probably pay attention to Wimbledon, Right,
(56:17):
Why because they played it? Like why do I like
football and golf? Well, I've been playing it when I
was young, so I liked it and I still like
it when I'm forty, just like I like it when
I'm fifty or sixty. Where a lot of us all
over the country, if you live in the South, if
you live in Texas, if you live you know, on
the West coast, you're not in freezing cold temperatures. Where's
(56:38):
hockey Big Michigan, Minnesota, the Dakota's where it's freezing cold, Canada, Russia?
So like, it is a very geographically specific sport where baseball, basketball,
and football are played in all those areas as well,
and hockey is just not that pop I would imagine
(57:01):
if you go to Texas, or you go to North
or South Carolina or Florida. I know they have pro
teams there, but I'm just talking about you know, people
playing lacrosse has become more more and more popular over
the last twenty years, right, but where is it the
most popular? In the Northeast? So like the more and
(57:24):
more people that are young that play directly benefit the
sport on television at the highest level. And more people,
way more people in America play basketball or have played
basketball than have ever played hockey. So I think that's
a huge alec and it's just it's a it's specifically
(57:45):
it's played on ice where I also think, like every
generation now basketball is a way bearer sport, but it
also has like just massive superstars. When I was a
kid who had I grew up on Michael Joe and
then we've morphed into Lebron and Steph those are three
of the biggest. I mean, Michael's in my lifetime. The
(58:07):
biggest athlete of my lifetime is Michael Jordan, and I
would put Stephan Lebron on the short list not named
Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Tom Brady. I mean, it's just
Wayne Gretzky is a very very famous individual, but like
he is by far, I would say, the most famous
hockey player still to this day, there's like a Ruthie
(58:27):
in quality to him. I know, Sidney's big, Ovechkin's big,
McDavid's big. I don't even think they approached Wayne Gretzky.
Wayne Gretzky was the last time he played hockey twenty
plus years. When you retire late nineties, so I think
if you are gonna have a lot of people that
(58:48):
don't play, you're gonna need an absolute superstar. He retired
in ninety nine, so he hasn't played in twenty five years.
I mean, look at Michael Jordan. I mean, Michael Jordan
hasn't place. It's two thousand and three. This year I
graduated high school. I'm forty years old. Now, I would
say Michael Jordan, I mean, it's as famous as ever.
(59:11):
I mean, his shoes are more popular than ever every
single person, I would say, most people in America that
just fall a sports you just say Michael Jordan. I
mean it feels like he's as famous as he's ever been.
I would say. The other thing is, how many people
do you see wearing Jordan's now? I mean they've become Listen,
(59:31):
call me old school. It's not like I wear suits
very often. I think wearing tennis shoes with a suit
is a fucking ugly look. I think it's a trend
that I'm just not behind, and I don't pretend to be.
You know, the trendiest individual, but I think it's a
terrible look, but it's really popular, and it's just really
popular just I would say Jordan's in general. People wear
(59:55):
them all over the place. Wherever you go, you see them,
And I guess it's a long winded way of saying
I don't think there's much hockey can do. I think
there's a weather dynamic there that's tough to overcome and
won't ever be overcome. It doesn't mean like if you
turn on a playoff hockey game, it's not if you
like sports and competition, it's not an incredible product. I
(01:00:18):
don't know. I would say the same about baseball and basketball,
Like you turn on Nick Pacers, is gonna be a war?
You turned on Denver and Oka see a lot of
those games, like this is incredible competition, and it's like
we just know. I don't really know. I follow sports
for a living. It's like the only thing I've ever
loved beside like my family, most of my life. And
(01:00:41):
I don't really know the rules like icing kind of
get that like some penalt high sticking, like can you
not throw the puck? Like I don't Baseball, basketball and football,
I think it helps to all these games are somewhat complicated.
There are some rules. I would say most sports fans
like understand what they're watching. It's what makes like trying
(01:01:02):
to watch stuff you don't know, Like if I throw
on trying to pick a random so like cricket, you know,
it looks kind of cool, but I got no clue
what's going on. None. You could argue that's easy to
follow about golf, like pretty basic parbardy or bogie. You know,
I was like, hit it out of bounds, you got
to rehit, hit in the water, you gott to drop it.
(01:01:24):
It's not really that complicated. You know, football is really complicated,
but we've been watching for so long we have a
somewhat of a pretty good idea of mostly what's going on. Baseballs,
you could argue the most basic, get three outs, get
three strikes, four balls. You know, you got nine guys
the bat and you just rotate. Get nine innings. It's
(01:01:47):
just you got four bases. So I think the the
ease to understand everything helps too. So I think there
are probably a lot of dynamics again respect hockey, but
I'd be lying if I said like I was super
locked in about it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
The volume m hm
The volume. What is going on everybody? John Middlecoff three
and out podcast, How are we doing? Hopefully everyone's doing well.
(00:21):
And we're gonna talk a little football today because we
had some news coming out of the owners meetings. We
have a lot of people are still talking about brock Party.
Is he overpaid? Is he underpaid? Are sure that all
these guys aren't a little underpaid? Quarterbacks and coaches in general?
The Eagles hire a former GM. I think it speaks
to what we've been talking about when it comes to
(00:42):
that franchise. The Bengals still had a staring contest with
their first run pick. Everyone's participating in rookie mannicams and
OTAs yet they can't figure it out. And then of
course little mailbag action at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff
is the Instagram. Fire in those dms and get your
questions answered on the show. Appreciate everyone that fires a DM.
(01:03):
If I've missed your DM, make sure to either bump
your message because a lot gets lost in the shuffle.
It doesn't it sound like an Excel spreadsheet where I
can kind of put it in an order. It's just
it's kind of hard if I click on it can
get lost. So if you've asked a question I haven't
(01:23):
gotten to it over the last couple of weeks, you
can just go back in there and bump it if
you want it read. And we're gonna need you because
it's it's the off season, the heavy off season. So
I still appreciate Roger Goodell and the owners making some
making some news. So we got some football stuff to
talk about. But if you subscribe to Collins Podcast, and
(01:44):
that's where you found us, appreciate you. Make sure you
subscribe to three and Out podcasts separate because we do
content that doesn't get uploaded on the feed. Also YouTube channel.
Everything we do goes up on the YouTube channel, so
you can watch us video wise if you would like.
But before we dive into some football talk, you know,
I got to tell you about my friends, my partners,
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That's a huge thing as the sun comes up obviously.
You know, I live in an area where the sun's
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(02:28):
the weather is turning around for the better, listen. Sometimes
you just like Friday night, Saturday, during the day at night,
you want to get outside, go to an event, nothing
like baseball in the summer, have a beer, get some sun.
If you want to go to a concert, get outside,
maybe a festival, sing some songs, dance around. You know,
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down the game Time app Today last minute tickets low
as price is guaranteed. You know it's funny and anyone
who invests in the stock market and just keeps an
eye and reads things about the financial institutions and how
they deal with some of these big fortune five hundred
companies and what those individuals in charge of those operations
(03:34):
get paid and are compensated, not just the CEO but
people on the board and the money that flows into
their pockets. Yet, when you look at the NFL, and
I would say this at pro sports in general, the
players are revenue sharing partners with the organizations. With the
(03:55):
entity that are is the leaks and if in the
NBA it's thirty teams and the NFL thirty two teams,
and for every dollar that comes in on a certain
under the umbrella of what categorized as shared revenue, we
split it, you know, forty nine fifty one, fifty to
fifty to fifty one point five, forty eight point five,
whatever the individual deals are. Yet the owners collect that
(04:19):
money and then the players have to fight for it.
It's it's kind of crazy, like the deal I have
with the volume, Like I don't have to fight for
the money that is negotiated in the contract. Right Yet
as a player, whether I'm Brock Purty, whether I'm Micah Parsons,
whether I'm whoever I am. I have to have an
agent who fights for amount of money that is allotted
(04:41):
for me. Now we can negotiate how much that's going
to be. And the better the agent, the better the negotiating,
the more money I get of the pie that is
allotted for me. So it's it's not an easy, uh
position to be in. Despite the money that is flowing,
you're guaranteed to make money as a team, right, And
I just saw the forty nine Ers today shattered a
(05:03):
record for being the highest valuation in the history of
the sport. Because a lot of these teams are now
selling a portion of their franchise to get a cash infusion.
Jed York, I think, just sold like ten percent of
the forty nine Ers and got almost nine hundred million
dollars because the franchise was valued at eight point six billion,
(05:26):
which breaks the previous record of the Eagles, where Jeffrey
Lury did the same thing for eight point three billion dollars.
So it's for most of these guys an incredible investment.
And you know, Jeffrey Lury bought the team the Yorks
and Jed and his parents who technically owned the team.
Jed is kind of the acting CEO and managing partner
(05:48):
got the team because there are you know, Jed's mother's brother,
Eddie de Bartelow, got caught brown bagging a politician in
the late nineties trying to get involved in some riverboat
gambling in the South, and the FEDS were on that
politician and got in trouble and had to divest his
interest in the team. So it's not like they purchased it.
(06:10):
They got it because of, you know, some Donnie Brasco shit.
And I was thinking about it because I actually was
checking out YouTube this morning and I saw Chris Simms
and Florio like this video they had posted how coaches
are underpaid. And I started thinking, and I've been saying
this for a while, if I have a franchise worth
(06:33):
eight point six billion dollars, let's use the Chiefs for example.
I don't know their exact valuation. It would not be
as high as the Niners or the Eagles because of
the market, but relative to how good they are mahomes
and it's rolling, it would be pretty freaking high. Let's
say six billion dollars for the Kansasity Chiefs and Andy Reid,
who is when you have an elite coach like Andy
(06:56):
obviously Patrick Mahomes if I could choose, and I would
probably say Andy. If I could choose Andy Reid or
Patrick Mahomes, I would take Patrick Mahomes. But there is
not another player on that team. Chris Jones, Old, Travis Kelce,
Trey Smith, you name it that you would take over
Andy Reid. Yet Andy Reid, let's just guess, makes fifteen
to eighteen million dollars where you know, in these other
(07:19):
line of work with these billion dollar corporations, the CEO
which Andy is. I mean, when you're the head coach,
you are in charge of everything, and like we just said,
I mean clearly the value of that individual. Sean McVay,
Kyle Shanahan, Jim Harbaugh, you go around like their importance,
Belichick forever, it's pretty important, Nick Saban at the college level,
(07:42):
Kirby Smart now and those guys don't actually make nearly
what they should. And I actually think the way that
it comes out, like no one knows how much Nick
Sirianni makes is not ideal for their business model of
trying to get paid more. And I know Jim Jory
had mentioned when he hired Brian Schottenheimer that at one
(08:03):
point in time in his life he desired to be
a coach, but they didn't make any money. And he said,
looking back, if I knew what they would make what
I'm paying them now, I would have been more interested
in the profession. And I'd argue that they are still
really underpaid because look at Sean McVeigh. What's he worth
through the RAMS, thirty forty million dollars? Like would you
(08:24):
rather have some other coach? Just take your chances on
hiring someone random, or pay Sean McVay what he's making
in double his salary. And like we just talked about
the quarterback position. Whatever Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen and
Lamar Jackson are making is a deal, right. I say
this all the time in the NBA, Like the amount
of guys making max contracts is pretty laughable. There are
(08:47):
countless guys on max contracts. If they disappeared tomorrow, no
one would notice. And then there are guys like Steph
Curry and Lebron James. What they bring to the table
not just for their franchise and the valuation should know
that franchise, but for the league and the television ratings.
You could triple their salary and it probably wouldn't be enough. Right,
(09:07):
you could take every salary in the WNBA and give
it to Caitlin Clark which he's brought to the table,
and she would probably be underpaid. And Brock, perty, we
make such a big deal over how much money you make.
How much was he going to get? Is he going
to eclipse this guy? Is he going to be below
this guy? Like in terms of the value what he
means to the forty nine ers when you just factor
in that a couple years ago they swung and missed
(09:31):
on a quarterback high in the draft and gave away
three first round picks. If he hadn't come along, all
these guys would be fired and the forty nine ers
would be in shambles. I'm old enough to remember when
Jim Harbaugh showed up to San Francisco. They played at
Candlestick and they were doing everything possible to try to
get a new stadium. Then his first year there, they
went to an NFC championship, and then the momentum was
(09:54):
gained and they got a stadium in the heart oft
Silicon Valley that took the Yorks net worth to a
different stratosphere. And when I saw what Jim Harbad did
last year. Whatever Jim Harbaugh is making from the Chargers,
he is vastly underpaid. And I'd say the same thing
about most quarterbacks. Listen, would I want to a tongue
(10:14):
of I Loo as my starting quarterback, I would not.
But his value to the Miami Dolphins, Yeah, they can't
win a playoff game, but they can't win a game
without him. They can't function. So I'm guilty of this.
We bitch and moan all the time. It's like, oh,
you're really gonna give to a fifty million dollars? This
is crazy, well relative to what they have, they are
(10:34):
completely you know what if he's not around, because we
see year and year out when he goes down and
they put whoever in, it's a rap. And to me
and listen, Dak Prescott originally when he signed his first contract,
it's like, guys, you drafted me in the fourth round.
Then Tony Romo's back broke and I saved you guys.
And I think there's an element to that with Bruck Purdy,
(10:57):
like I'm still giving you guys a discount, but never
forget without me, Like if I hadn't been here, y'all
would be screwed, and let's face it, probably be out
of a job. So well, yeah, Kyle, you're probably underpaid.
You would have been fired here a couple of years
ago if I didn't come through. So I do think
that we spend so much time talking about this, the
(11:20):
value of the quarterback, the value the coach, and then
we kind of bitch and moan when they get paid.
And listen, this is an exercise that's never going to
change because it is a salary cap league and how
much you pay these guys does matter. I think the
problem is is when you pay a guy like you
could easily justify, you know that if two as your
(11:40):
starting quarterback, you can win nine or ten games if
you do a good enough job building the team. Like
I when we saw that happened to Trevor Lawrence, I'm like,
I don't know about this. That seems a little crazy
to me. Now, you could probably argue both sides my
issues when you pay a guy that you don't even
know if you can win with. And when I say win,
I don't mean the super Bowl, because winning just regular
(12:01):
season games is how these franchises make money. And if
you're in the playoff every single year, Like you're gonna
have a very very lucrative business where in a business
model where you can't really fail, but there's a way
to make way more money and that's just by going
to the playoffs every year. Ask the Packers and ask
the Steelers, like why the franchises or were so much
(12:21):
money in smaller markets because they've been winning for decades
upon decades. We talked the other day about like, listen,
we can nitpick Sirianni all we want. He can't call place.
You know, he's a young offensive coach that cannot call place,
which yeah, I mean that's a little bit of a
head scratcher. But Mike Tomlin just never called the defense
(12:42):
for the Pittsburgh Steelers. John Harbaugh doesn't call offense or
defense for the Baltimore Ravens, never has, never will. And
we applaud those guys. It's like, well, they just win.
And you look at Sirianni and his record, he's like, well,
this guy just wins. And I just dawned on me
yesterday and if you listen the podcast, we talked a
lot about it, like he really benefits just like those
(13:04):
guys from an incredible infrastructure, and it starts with the owner.
And today, or I guess, within the last twenty four hours,
it was announced the Eagles are bringing back Joe Douglas
after just losing a couple guys to the Raiders, and
who knows, maybe there'll be more announcements. They've lost several
people from their front office. Now. Granted the Eagles have
(13:26):
one of the bigger front offices, if not the biggest,
in the NFL. Well, what does that tell you? Their
owner spending a lot of money and last year, what
happened when Vic Fangio got out of his deal. He
made Jeffrey Leary, made him the highest paid coordinator in
the NFL. What happened this year when Joe Douglas was available,
which in NFL circles personnel moves usually happen in terms
(13:49):
of hiring after the draft. The hired Joe Douglas. And
it's not like he's getting paid from the Jets anymore.
Remember his contract is over. And this gets back to
the difference. The way too separate in the NFL because
everyone abides by the same rules. We all have the
same amount of cap space, we all have the same
amount of draft picks, we just get to pick and
choose how we want to allot them. Do we want
(14:10):
to trade for a player, Do we want to pay
this guy, do we want to We could do whatever
we want. Right The Atlanta Falcons chose next year to
not have a first round pick because they wanted James
Pearce on their roster. Don't blame them. I mean I do.
I think it's a super trade, but like that's their progative.
They're allowed to do what they want to do. So
I think Jeffrey Lurie has really really taken advantage of
(14:32):
his situation by just spending a lot of money when
it comes to coaches in front offices, and that's an
easy way. Like this is all in the margins, right,
The difference of everybody in the NFL, especially the top
six eight ten teams, is really really small. We've seen
like how close these playoff games are against the Ravens
(14:53):
and the Bills, against the Rams and the Eagles, right
these it's a play here, a play there. So it's
it's really really small at the highest level, and you
got to take advantage of where you can, just like
in any line of work. So all these teams are
flush with cash, some people just spend more of it.
I mean, look at the Bengals. They are in this
(15:14):
staring contest right now with I've defended them a little
bit with the Trey Hendrickson thing. Older player. It's just
it's just complicated. It's just it's not black and white.
Just give them an unlimited amount of money. I understand
both sides, but the Shamar Stewart. They're starting OTAs and
he's still not practicing. Like we're at the point now
(15:35):
this is kind of embarrassing. Every other first round pick
participated in in rookie mini camp. Now that OTA's are starting,
a ton of guys have already signed their contract. These
contracts are slotted. The only negotiation is just a cash flow.
You're paying them no matter what. So whether it's an
extra two million in year two or the following year,
(15:57):
you're giving them that money no matter what. And it's
all based on precedent, so the agent can only argue
what's happened previously, and if the previous years have had
it happen, then you just give it to him and
you move on. Because at this point in time, when
you're talking about a rookie contract, all these franchises are
worth billions. You have guys on your roster now, Jamar Chase,
Joe Burrow making hundreds of millions of dollars, so you
(16:21):
are arguing over a million or two right at most
three or four million dollars. He's the whatever seventeenth pick
in the draft, so the total value of the contract
isn't even that big. It's like listen living with Maria
and watching her in real estate. The amount of people
that argue, it's like, you get to a number, we're
offering eight hundred and fifty grand, they want it for
(16:43):
eight hundred and seventy five thousand dollars, and they get
to like, I'm at eight sixty five, You're at eight
seventy two. It's like, guys, you're gonna let a deal
worth almost nine hundred thousand dollars fall through over three
or four thousand dollars, which the mortgage is set up.
You won't even fucking notice. And it's crazy how often
(17:05):
this happens. It honestly, it really is. And occasionally one
of the sides will realize, like, what are we talking about,
Let's just get the deal done, because in the grand
scheme of things, it's a tiny, tiny, tiny number. Now,
if you just say two million dollars out loud, that's
an enormous number to ninety nine point ninety percent of people.
(17:26):
But the way the NFL is structured, the way the
Bengals are structured, and what we're talking about here is
laughable and to me, like perception oftentimes does become reality.
And then I think when you finally shake it and
it's like, hey, this guy you know, used to be
an asshole, used to be selfish, it's changed his personality.
He's a much better guy now. You should give him
(17:48):
a second chance, right, whether that's dating him, whether that's
employing him, whatever it may be. How often you've heard
that with you know, your wife's friends, your girlfriend's friends,
your your people in your life life, whether it's people
they work with. It's like, he's a better person now,
you know. He just he's done some self reflection. He's
just he's grown, he's matured. I think we tried to
(18:09):
start saying that about the Bengals a couple of years ago,
and then they find themselves back in situation like this,
like that there is no way to really defend like
these are embarrassing moments and these are like the Trey
Hendricks thing. Situation is not always avoidable complicated. I was
reading the other day because I was like, well, you
were the guy that signed with the Bengals. Originally, like
(18:30):
you got into business when they gave you a massive
free agent contract years ago, and then in twenty twenty
three he signed a one year extension. Why got more money?
Got more money, then obviously kept playing well, outperformed it,
and now they're at this staring contest. But originally, like
you had all these other options, they were offering the most,
(18:52):
and you were willing to get into bed and get
into Joe burrowdn't have a choice. The Jamar Chase didn't
have a choice. Higgins didn't have a choice. They were
drafted by these teams. You became a free agent and
once upon a time you said you know what, I'll
sign up with these guys, and then being there, you
signed an extension on that original contract. So it's like
there are a lot of variables here. The Shamar Stewart
(19:13):
thing is like you drafted me, here are the rules,
president of the contract. Like you want to dance, lets dance,
But this is what it is. And I just think
their mindset. And I've said this forever. Once you're cheap
in life, it doesn't change just because you have money,
once that is embedded in your soul, in your core,
(19:33):
like Tiger Woods didn't grow up with any money. One
of the most famous stories about Tiger Woods with the
Navy Seal stuff was when he took all the Navy
seals out after training with them in San Diego to
cheeseburgers at a local restaurant. I forget the number of
people that he took out. Let's just pick a number
ten and the bill came and Tiger wanted to split it.
(19:55):
It's like Tiger and notoriously Tiger was and I've heard
stories about my Michael Jordan as well, are just cheap.
They were cheap when they were ten, they were cheap
when they were twenty, and now they're cheap when they're
fifty or sixty and they're super rich. It doesn't change.
It's in your soul. I'll believe this till the day
I die. Just like people that are giving people, whether
they are poor rich, it's just it's embedded in them.
(20:18):
You have it at a young age. And I think
the Bengals that organizational philosophy starts with the family. They
view their franchise through the lens of back in the
seventies and the sixties, because that's when they got into it.
I said it forever about the Spanoses. They came in
with the mindset of like the financial setup of the
eighties or whenever they bought it. It's like, guys, it's
(20:39):
the twenty tens, and if you're going to keep employing
these average coaches, you don't get to complain when you
lose just because you want to have a low paid coach,
Like that's going to lead to poor results. And finally
they realized it and they gave Jim Harball a lot
of money and look what happened first year playoffs. This year,
most people are a lot of people gonna pick them
(21:01):
to probably win the division. So I just think the Bengals, man,
this is who the family is, like, this is what
you're arguing over. Give me a fucking break. The NBA
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Speaker 1 (23:07):
Goodell listen. I don't mean it to my own horn.
I don't pretend to be some genius, but you could
see this one coming from ninety miles an hour or
ninety miles away. This was as clear as day, and
the breadcrumbs have been laid. Roger Goodell said, I do
see us having sixteen overseas games in the next five years.
(23:29):
The NFL is going to have an international package. They're
going to have an international package sixteen straight weeks at
six thirty Pacific Standard time in the morning. It was inevitable.
We knew it was gonna happen. And when he says
five years, guess where the negotiating window is for their
new television deal twenty twenty nine. So they're kept adding
(23:52):
these international games. They're putting together a package where Amazon, Netflix, CBS, Fox,
who knows any entity can bid on this thing. You're
going to have like Thursday Night Football, a it's not
technically primetime because in the morning, but a by itself
(24:13):
game package where you're not competing with anyone else. That's
the power of Thursday Night Football, Sunday Night Football, and
Monday Night Football. There is no counter NFL programming. It
does not exist. For as awesome and as big as
the CBS and Fox Game of the Week are in
the afternoon a lot of times, like Fox does have
(24:34):
another game going on. So if it's Packers Vikings, is
Tom Brady and Kevin Burkhart and that's a huge game
and going to do millions of viewers. The forty nine
Ers might be playing Arizona Cardinals also on Fox on
the second tier, right, Well, you don't have to do
that with this package coming up. So I would imagine
(24:56):
this is going to be a massive new revenue source
and feels like a lot now. I think the international games,
like I understand what they're doing of building the fan base,
and that's a big deal to the streamers because you
can stream a game from wherever. This is not local
Fox in Arizona. That I can watch the Cardinals, like
(25:17):
if the Cardinals are on Amazon Prime, like I can
watch them in Australia if I want, I can watch
them in Germany. I can watch them anywhere. I think
those people get I can sign an Amazon Prime. Maybe
I need a VPN, but obviously Netflix is a worldwide company.
So Roger Goodell is telling you, so get ready because
this is something you know. For me personally, like I'm
(25:39):
not really looking forward to that, Like it's I've had,
Like I have enough football in my life. I don't
need that extra game on a Sunday. Uh. But like
I'm not gonna argue over because it's inevitable at this
point in time. Okay, before we get out of here,
let's I want to welcome you to Chasing Challenges brought
to you by Microsoft in the NFL, just like in
(26:01):
the business world, Overcoming obstacles is key to success. Microsoft
empowers business decision makers with AI solutions, simplified cloud and
data management, and trustworthy, responsible technology to turn challenges into opportunities.
In this segment, we explore some of the biggest challenges
being faced in the NFL and how they can be overcome.
(26:22):
Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise
to say bring it on. This week, we're discussing the
challenge face by football because the NFL is all in
on flag football. They're allowing the pros to play in
twenty twenty eight Olympics in flag football. Safe to say,
(26:44):
I would like our chances if guys like Kyler Murray
or Saquon Barkley or Justin Jefferson are allowed to play.
But I think one challenge for the NFL, speaking of streaming,
is growing the sport. Growing the sport not only domestically
but internationally. In football, and I've heard a lot of
people say this, which is clear. Like in basketball, even
(27:06):
in the pros, I can get ten pros and we
can have a pickup game in the offseason, even if
it's not quite NBA standards. We can get really serious
call fouls and play the sport in baseball, as long
as I got a pitcher in a batter, I can
just do simulated batting practice in football shorts and a
T shirt. Like I'm not actually playing football. Right, You
(27:28):
need a helmet, you need shoulder pads, you usually need referees, coach,
you need a lot. Right. You can't call your own pis.
That's not the way it works. But flag football has
always been an element of like, it's actually pretty easy
to play. We've all kind of done it. In one thing,
the NFL has done a really good job of, i
would say, over the last half decade, becoming like this
(27:49):
mix of sports meets reality show and just its importance
in the culture. Has been adding a huge, huge female audience.
And one thing they've been pushing is trying to get
flag football into high school, and not just in high school,
but for girls. Well, if I get a girl. The
reason football is so popular in America is because, by far,
(28:12):
and that's got a lot of different reasons, but by far,
of all the high school sports, the most amount of
kids play football in their youth. And if you play
something usually just pay attention to it. That's usually when
you become a fan. Or if you're young, you become
a fan, you want to try and play it. And
if I can open that up to maybe some people
(28:32):
that aren't physically big enough and don't feel comfortable getting tackled,
and obviously girls that don't play tackle football, it just
adds to the business model. So the challenge for the
NFL is like, how do we keep growing? Have we peaked?
They never think like that. That's how losers like, aren't
you rich enough? Just stop? If you get on the internet,
(28:54):
people always tell you that. Right to other people, it's like, yeah,
that's usually not how winners think. When you get aggressive,
you get extra aggressive. And the NFL has proven that
time and time again. They see an inch, they want
a mile, and they go pedal to the metal, one
hundred miles an hour every step of the way. And
the league has never been more popular. There's never been
(29:14):
more people watching, and they want more because in business,
you're either growing or you're dying. Obviously a huge challenge
for Roger Goodell who has to take into account everyone
in the NFL, all the coaches, the gms, and the players,
but also try to drive the revenue. So all those
guys who always want more money. It's like that money's
not just going to come from this guy. Well, this
is clearly an area. I mean, the flag football with
(29:35):
the NFL players is the headliner, but flag football is
something that they're all in on. And the challenge for
the NFL is like, how do you get more people
to watch? And the way to get more people to
watch is to get more people to play. So that's
it for this week's Chasing Challenges. Remember Microsoft's AI solution
empower you to make bold steps and informed decisions, sparking
(29:58):
new ideas to help drive your business forward. With Microsoft
as your trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence,
finding innovative solutions, and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft dot
com Slash Challengers to learn more.
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Blending Vice's signature dynamic storytelling with the high octane world
of sports, Vice Sports brings an exciting and diverse range
of programming that goes beyond the game. From action pack
live events to gripping behind the scenes documentaries, to hard
hitting investigative pieces and in depth profiles of athletes, coaches, teams,
Vice Sports captures the raw energy, drama and passion that
(30:36):
makes sports truly Unforgettable Catch live events and other exclusive
sports programs only on Vice TV. Go to vicetv dot
com to find your cable channel.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Okay, mail back time at John Middlecoff's the Instagram. Firing
those dms, get your questions answered here on the show.
Very very easy to get involved. We need your participation
this summer and DM's open for anything, obviously football, but
you know, firing any other thoughts you may have. We
will start with the will longtime listener and love the show,
(31:10):
but I hate your opinion of the Falcons. They have
whiffed on quarterbacks since Matt Ryan retired. How are they
supposed to win your respect with Mariota and Desmond Ritter?
You say it all the time, he's a coach and
quarterback league. With that logic, I'd rather swing at Kirk
Cousins than see one more game of that. You never
call out other franchises who have quarterback issues as soon
(31:35):
you never call them dogshit franchises. Did I say that
about the Falcons? As soon as that position hits, all
of our problem go away. It's a quarterback problem. The
offensive stacked, and if Pennix the new pass rushers can
be decent, they will run the NFC South. I pray
to God every night before I fall asleep that they
finally shove it up your ass this year. You know,
(31:58):
let Diddy watch on that one. I would say this
that my lack of respect for the Falcons is how
they run the organization. And ever since kind of the
dan Quinn Dimitrov thing fell apart, and the Arthur Smith
font and no crue and then threw last year with
(32:19):
Raheem who everyone was bullish on and thought like, oh,
he's gonna He's gonna change the world. And I listen,
everyone likes him. I don't know him personally, but McVeigh Kyle,
these people swear by him. Everyone that knows them thinks
highly of him. Easy got a root for and then
they come in they desperately need defense. They fall in
(32:41):
love with Michael Pennix. After they give Cousins eighty ninety
million dollars guaranteed. It's like that that's a poorly run operation,
because if they could do it again, and they knew
they were gonna draft Pennis at eight, they could have
just signed a random quarterback for five or ten million
dollars and allocated those fun for Wilkins from Miami signed
(33:04):
some defensive, high end players because they had a bunch
of money to spend, but they were like fell in
love with Cousins and then their draft process was all
out of whack, and then they clearly fell in love
with Pennix, where Pennix was not some like didn't need
to sit. This isn't J J. McCarthy. There's a twenty
four year old kid who had been starting in college forever,
plug and play guy who I'm high on. I like
(33:26):
that player, but like the previous year you went into
like you're gonna start Desmond Ritter, Like what are we doing?
And you can say it's a quarterback problem. Yeah, it's
a quarterback problem, but like that was like you're gonna
go into the season with him starting. I also think
the four straight year or three straight years of drafting
offensive skill guys. I like b John Robinson, like I
(33:49):
get it, like he's I think he could be one
of the better players in the NFL. But like drafting
the tight end who can't block anybody, and then the
next year taking London who's a good player. But it
just doesn't feel like they have any organizational philosophy. Their
owner is eighty five years old, worth an ungodly amount
of money, putting himself in the Hall of Fame, in
(34:11):
his own hall of fame, Like he's kind of just
in his own little world. Who again, everyone likes the guy, Sure,
he's a great guy, but when it comes to football,
I don't think it's safe to say they know what's
going on. So, like, do I think you're like a
dog shit franchise? Like clearly it's a high end, lucrative operation.
Sweet stadium, some history with the franchise, but like I
(34:33):
feel like the people driving the bus right now don't
know where they're going. And we someone asks, like how
why do some teams have an identity and some teams don't?
And we talked about this with the Steelers starts with
the owner, the Eagles starts with the owner, The Raven
starts with the owner. It's pretty rare that, Like the Crafts,
I don't think really they know what's going on. But
(34:55):
it doesn't matter. They had Bill forever, right then they
get Vrabel who learned under Bill. So it's like, I
don't know, I don't know. I think you guys, now
who knows panics is good? Like you said, maybe you'll
be solid, but run the division. The reason the Bucks
are good is because like the Gladi's like, yeah, we
don't really know what's going on. Once upon a time,
(35:15):
we gave it all to Gruden, and now we give
it all to Jason Light. Jason Light's better than anything
you got. And like, this is football, while it's very complicated,
Like it's kind of important who's running your franchise. They
got Baker Mayfield, but who's running the franchise. Jason LT
(35:35):
knows what he's doing. I just feel like you guys
don't know what you're doing. I mean, honestly, the trading
a future first round pick for a guy who, like, again,
these aren't my opinions, was off boards, been well reported,
texting around people, They're like, it wasn't on our board.
It's like, what are we doing? How? And you guys
(35:58):
aren't good enough to take like question Hell, a couple
of years ago you had the chance to take Jalen Carter,
but it's like I'm a little too questionable, and now
you take questionable people. It's like you ever won shit
since then? What changed? How big of an advantage if
any is knowing the other GM in an NFL trade.
I'm a huge Rams fan, and it seems like whether
(36:18):
less Sneed is dealing with the coach or GM who
previously worked for the Rams, a really good deal for
the Rams seems to materialize getting Stafford from the Lions
the first rounder we just got from the Falcons. Now
that Gladstone is in Jacksonville, if we deal with the
Jags in the future, would Snead have the advantage of
knowing Gladstone's tendencies or vice versa. Also, my four year
(36:42):
old son is addicted to watching golf. I've never played
around in my life. You have any tips into getting
him started, I'd appreciate it. Uh. I would just say
that take him the driving range, get him a set
of like little kids clubs, and have him go wax
and ball. We'll see if he really likes it, you know.
(37:03):
So I would do that. Get him a putter, get
him like a driver, and get him like a little
iron and just take him to like a public driving
range and have him go whack away. I would say
on the Rams thing, you know, I would agree on
the Falcons trade. I mean that was every GM in
the league would have made that trade for less Need.
(37:23):
So I don't know if they just took advantage of desperation.
I mean, Raehie Morris is one of mcveigh's best friends
and he's a defensive guy, so clearly he wants that player.
I would say on the Stafford thing, I mean they
gave up two first round picks. You know, golf obviously
now would be very valuable, but at the time wasn't.
(37:45):
But they included so they got golf in two first
round picks. You know, the Lions had their choice, like
the Niners and the Rams both really wanted Stafford. Both
were offering two first round picks Jimmy Garoppolo or Jared
Goff and they benefited because as Homes had been from
LA or worked in LA and knew golf. So yeah,
(38:05):
I don't know. He just clearly all things are just
working out in their favor now, granted like last year.
You know, it's crazy and this is why I think
you got to be careful. And I'm guilty of this
of this draft sucks. This draft's good or even my
buddies in the league, like I hated this draft. I
don't know what the Niners were doing there. I didn't
love this. I love this I remember last year, it's like, God,
(38:28):
the Rams traded that much to get Braden Fisk. I
remember talking to people that thought that was pretty crazy.
I mean, I I think that's a pretty good deal
looked it looks like after one year. So I just
think we never know, you know. I think the Stafford
golf trade is just an all time win win. I mean,
the Lions do not regret that they traded Stafford, who
(38:49):
didn't want to be there anymore. They ended up getting
picked six that they turned into Gibbs and Laporta. They
got Jared Goff, So I think think it's kind of
I think Jameis and Williams too, if I remember correctly. Yeah,
I mean I wouldn't put that one underneath like fleecing
for the Rams. But I hear what you're saying. I
(39:11):
don't know. I mean, I would say, I Gladstone, I'd
want to do a deal with him because that that's
a pretty easy deal for the Browns to do. And
I like Travis Hunter, but holy shit, I'm not a
forty nine Ers fan. But I remember you saying you
would play hardball with Brock Purdy and giving him two
hundred plus million would be a mistake. Well, he didn't
(39:31):
get two hundred million in guarantees, but man, that contract
is insane. Didn't hear any reporting about negotiations going back
and forth like last year with Ayuk. It might be
Monday morning quarterbacking, but it seems like trading Ayuk was
seems like not trading Ayuk was a mistake. And the
pretty contract feels risky too, when the state of an
unproven roster. What are the forty nine ers doing? And
(39:54):
have they lost their fastball? I mean, I've said this
over and over. I think they got a deal. I mean,
ideally you would have got like Baker Mayfield's contract, but
it's pretty clear they were never going to accept that.
And after the last three years of I would say
no team had three consecutive years of holdouts, some years
multiple players. The Niners didn't want to deal with that,
(40:17):
and I don't think brock Perty wanted to deal with that.
It's why I respect Micah Parsons, who's just showing up
to practices. It just makes getting everything done easier. Just
show up, make the other person want to do a
deal with you. I think sometimes the holding out. I'm
not against holding out, but it just creates, especially in
this day and age of media and social media, just
(40:38):
such a shit show. The Auk thing was an embarrassment,
and I think the forty nine ers once they got
to training camp, he could deny trades because the only
way trade would go through is he had to accept
their terms. So like they were trading him away and
he kept saying, no, I'm not signing the Patriots, I'm
not signing with the Browns. What they should have done
(40:59):
is traded up before the draft. It was a huge
mistake because by then he probably would have accepted. Once
he got to training camp, he has heels dug in
and clearly, I mean they would have traded him at
the combine, but no one will take a guy with
a shattered knee. Now I'm not saying that the deal
is a disaster because he got injured. No one, you
can never predict an injury, But like that, that was
(41:21):
an embarrassing moment for the forty nine ers. It truly was,
and everyone, the Mayokos, the Kawakami's, the Barrows, all the
guys that cover the Niners closely, I mean well reported
that that was something that made the forty nine ers.
They didn't like that, and they've been through tough contract negotiations,
but Purdy was never going to do that. I think
(41:42):
there was a little bit of a reward for saving
their ass. Now you can say, is that great business
or not? I mean, but he did. And I also
think this that when you factor in that Brock Purdy
got fifty million dollars less in total guarantees than Dak Prescott, Like,
that's a pretty big win. That's a pretty big win. Now,
I'd argue that they were never going to give him
(42:04):
Dak Prescott money, but like that contract exists, and I
don't think there's much difference between the two, especially when
Brock's younger and moves much better. So yeah, I would
say that, you know, in the day and age of
quarterback contracts, I would say that that deal is pretty normal.
You know, it really is. Now, it's a win for party.
(42:24):
It's a ton of money, right, But I think for
the forty nine ers, they probably at one point in
time prepared like if this thing got ugly, we would
have had to pay more. I know, you primarily cover.
(42:48):
I hate the word cover because I'm not like a reporter.
I know, it's just a most of you don't care
about like the semantics of my job. I just watch
games and give my opinions on them. I wouldn't say cover,
but listen, that's maybe an insecurity of mine. I hear
what you're saying, and I'm not putting it. This isn't
your fault, but I'm wondering if you ever got into
(43:08):
the NHL with the physicality, pace of play, and effort.
It seems like a sport you'd mentioned more in your podcast, Gocaines,
I've gotten into it more in the last couple of years.
That whatever they're all star thing. I forget the name
the four Nations. I mean is that USA Canada. Those
(43:29):
two games are two of the better sporting events any
sport I've seen in recent memory. I was glued have
nothing but admiration. I think I view hockey like I
do MMA. I don't really watch MMA, and I know
some of you that like get all the pay per views.
I respect the living I couldn't have any more respect
(43:51):
for what it takes to get in the octagon. How
big of a badass all those guys are. I love
Dana White, I love that operation. I admire how they
handled twenty twenty. He was the first guy that'd been
like fuck this. A lot of people followed suit, and
I just I admire a lot of things about the MMA,
I don't watch it. I would say similar with hockey,
(44:14):
Like I respect the living shit out of the players,
how hard it is to play that sport, how they
all are missing teeth because they're all getting pucks to
the face, how tough you have to be to play hockey.
But I just don't really watch. Now I will pay
a little more attention, like to the Final four here,
I would love to see Edmonton. When I made a mistake,
(44:35):
I put one thousand dollars at ten to one on
the Capitals, and I thought about splitting it going five
hundred five hundred on Edmonton. I obviously a huge regret.
I wish I just would have put that on Edmonton,
who was like eighteen to one. I think the Caps
were ten to one in your Canes just beat the
shit out of them. I remember watching last year I
had the Vancouver and watching Edmonton take them down. I
(44:58):
would love to see McDavid win it. But I don't
pretend like I'm not a huge hockey guy. I just
don't really. I only have so much time in my life.
I spend so much time watching football in the fall,
and golf's Thursday through Sunday, you know, basically year round,
which I consume, but definitely when football, I don't miss
really many golf days. Besides, if I'm out playing, so
(45:20):
I just I don't know. I just only have so
much mental energy to put in. Doesn't mean I don't
have a lot of admiration and respect for the sport.
I know you're not a big soccer guy, but you're
a Niner guy. I'm from Glasgow, Scotland, and my rival team,
the Rangers, I'm a Celtic guy. He's talking soccer is
in the midst of a takeover from the forty nine
(45:41):
er Enterprises. Curious to see if this is gaining any
traction at all in the States, as it's massive news
over here. The takeover should be complete soon and sadly
means the Rangers might actually be good enough to compete.
I suppose My question is two parter one, have you
heard of this news at all? Based off your knowledge
(46:01):
of running an NFL franchise, how would you see the
enterprise running a huge European soccer team. Ps If you
get any time read up on the old Firm Derby
biggest and best rivalry in sports. Well, the forty nine
ers bought years ago a franchise called Leads, and I
think they just within the last couple months qualified And
(46:24):
they had done this before for the Premier League. Again,
they had been they had qualified for the Premier League
and been knocked down, and now they're back and they
threw a huge like parade in the area. And you know,
the forty nine ers have a unique setup, right, Like
Howie kind of runs point on most things. It's not
like he negotiates every detail of every contract, but ultimately
(46:46):
nothing gets signed off without him. The forty nine ers,
like John Lynch, they have a cap crew that's kind
of run by Parrague, who is Jed York's right hand
money guy. And Parrague runs point on the soccer And
I know Prague a little bit. I haven't talked to
him in a while, but like Leeds was a huge
passion project of his and he used to tell me
(47:07):
like they were a sleeping giant. And they have brought
people from America to run it over there, and it's
they've done a good job like that. They take it really,
really seriously. So if he is heavily involved in this,
I would imagine it's gonna work. I would bet on
it working. I think what they've tried to do is
(47:29):
like obviously, you know the Glazers or stan Kronky on
some of the main teams, like to get a main team,
now you need billions of dollars. I think they've tried
to like buy sleeping giants and resurrect them. Obviously it's
just cheaper to buy. It's like I remember Coward told
me years ago. He's like, if you can't afford it,
it makes more sense to find a home that you
(47:51):
can remodel yourself. Then find a home that's already been flipped,
and they're adding fifty percent to the sticker price because
you're paying for their remodel then to make a profit
on And it's like, yeah, it's why the house I'm
living in right now was a full gut job. But
the house would have been worked double if the person
(48:11):
before me had done what I did to it, so
it actually saved me money. And I think that I
look at the way the forty nine ers operate, you know,
they're not trying to find a deal necessarily they're just
trying to find something with a lot of upside, and
the way you just described it, I would imagine as
the way they viewed it. And Parrague is good with money.
(48:32):
I want to know what you think about the quarterback
win stat For example, a lot of people in the
media mentions Joe Burrow beating the Chiefs when Mahomes throws
two picks, but when a guy like Alan goes nuclear
against the Chiefs, he just can't get it done. Should
Josh play some edge rusher next year to help on defense?
(48:54):
I think a lot of the media elites, the over
educated group that always loves any sort of a narrative
to shut down because the people pushing that aren't intellectually
you know, their capacity isn't quite on their level. And
I view this as a classic. Like the media love
(49:14):
saying quarterback wins are not a stat, I would agree
in an individual situation. In a playoff game, you can
lose a playoff Aaron Rodgers has lost playoff games where
he's played well. Earlier on in the McCarthy era, he
played well in games the defense was atrocious and they lost.
That's happened. But you could not be a good quarterback
(49:37):
over the course of five years and have your team
not win a lot in the regular season. Now, individual
playoff games you can play crappy. One play can determine it.
Josh Allen has played well in a lot of playoff
games in which he's lost. I would say Patrick Mahomes
has played to average in some games that they've won. Right,
So it's like, totally agree playoff quarterback wins shouldn't be
(50:02):
a stat but your win lost record as a regular
season quarterback does matter, right, it just does. Like I
actually view last year with Joe Burrow winning nine games
pretty impressive. But I hate it when people go quarterback
wins is not a stat, well bullshit over the course
of multiple years it for bet Your ASCID is why
(50:22):
do we think the positions so important? Because if you're
a good player, you're gonna win a lot of games.
I don't care how average your team is unless you're
playing on one of the worst teams ever. Like, if
you put Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow or Lamar Jackson
on who just drafted number one the Titans, Yeah, actually
they probably would have won like eight nine games because
they had a good defense. They would have been good,
(50:43):
big fan of the pod. I'm a dyared Browns fan,
which sucks most of the time, but they seem to
always leave you with slivers of hope. For example, this year,
I don't expect them to win many games. However, there's
the hope that these two rookie quarterbacks in Gabriel and Sanders,
that they could be the guy we've been searching for.
But in my opinion, they have to play these guys
(51:04):
as much as possible to figure it out. There's the answer.
Given that we have two first rounders in the next
year's draft and good talent coming in at the quarterback position.
What are your thoughts on the Browns floor and ceiling
for the season, and do you think they should start
one of these two rookies and forget about Flacco and
Pickett for twenty twenty five. I think I saw a
(51:26):
headline today that Mary Kay, who is basically the encyclopedia
and Walter Cronkite when it comes to the Browns knows All,
reported that the first team reps starting at OTAs will
be Kenny Pickett and Dylan Gabriel. My guess is that
with the ones that Joe Flacco won't get any reps
(51:49):
with the ones during OTAs, and that's smart. He doesn't
need any All the reps should go to because Kenny
Pickett might be your starting quarterback. I don't have an
issue with that, but I think Dylan Gabriel, who was
drafted above Shador, totally get that. And Shador Sanders like,
give them reps right now, and then in training camp
(52:10):
you have some idea bring them back and give it
a week, kind of rotate, and whoever's playing better starts
getting more reps moving forward. But you could argue, don't
even start Joe Flacco. I think it's actually, when I
just came out of my mouth, I think what makes
it difficult to do that at least week one or
week two is that if everyone on the team thinks
(52:31):
he's the best quarterback, it's hard to look Miles Garrett
and some other guys I almost dropped, like some other names, like, yeah,
Nick Chub's not even on the team. Is Mark Cooper
on the team? Has a Mark Cooper signed?
Speaker 3 (52:42):
That?
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Did Mark Cooper sign anywhere? But you know some of
your veteran players, they're trying, they're playing their ass off,
and if they think that Dylan Gabriel shad Or Sanders
starts week one, They're not the best quarterback. They're not
gonna love that. Now you can easily do that, like
after a month, but I would. I guess A'mari Cooper
was traded last year to the Mills. Huh. I listen
(53:04):
to it every day. Really great stuff. I'm a little
confused on the narrative that Stafford is significantly better than perty.
Last year, Party and Stafford had almost identical numbers, but
Stafford had less had four less picks. Stafford also has
the benefit of having a better defense and healthier offense
than Brock, yet Brock and him had the same stats. Also,
(53:24):
Brock is significantly better runner than Stafford. Everyone says they
would take a thirty seven year old Stafford over twenty
five year old Party, and it truly makes no sense
to me? Is it? Because Stafford has a ring and
Party doesn't well like for the next five years, you
would have to take Party if I had to play
a big game on the road in the elements, like
(53:46):
Purty has been awful in rain and Cold. Luckily he
plays in San Francisco and he avoids that. But that
game that Stafford had against the Eagles in that snow
shitty weather, like I have zero faith than Perty can
have that. So in a one game I would take
Matt Stafford. I would also say, in a one game
scenario against the best competition, I would take the thirty
(54:07):
seven year old Matt Stafford. But over the contract that
Purty just got, I would give that to Party over
giving it to Stafford over the next four or five years. Right,
So I think in a short, short window, Matt Stafford
on an individual game basis, is a better player. I
think Matt Stafford at times last year is a top
five quarterback in the NFL. And I just don't think
(54:28):
that about Perty now. I also don't think Perty's like
the twentieth quarterback. But I think Stafford's a better player
now if they were the same age, like, Stafford is
in a different universe as a talent, and if you
gave there's a reason that Kyle Shanahan wanted a trade
for him when MCVA ended up getting him. He wanted
him why because Stafford is a special, special player. Now
he's older and beat up, but and there's a reason
(54:51):
they're going year to year. But I think when it
just came to a one game basis, if all the
marbles were on the line, there's only a couple quarter
in the NFL. If they're all healthy, I would want
over Matt Stafford. Okay, last question, what do you think?
Why do you think the NHL is always the fourth
most popular North American sport? The product is clearly much
(55:11):
better than the NBA, and the players actually care about
the sports and the games. What does the NHL have
to do to get more popular? We talked about this
with football. Every single human I knew growing up, whether
you played in high school, whether you played in junior high,
whether you just played pickup had played a little basketball,
(55:32):
because most people at one point in time in their
life just shoot baskets, played pickup hoops, watch basketball on television.
It's an easy sport to play wherever you live, right.
I've only lived in one cold area place in Philly
for a couple of years. Other than that, I've lived
in areas that it does not snow, Arizona, Fresno, the
(55:55):
Bay Area, Davis, San Luis, Obispo. So what you play
in high school, what you grow up playing in when
you're young, is to me, what you usually gravitate toward.
Usually diehard tennis people like in junior high, high school.
If you play in college, probably pay attention to Wimbledon, Right,
(56:17):
Why because they played it? Like why do I like
football and golf? Well, I've been playing it when I
was young, so I liked it and I still like
it when I'm forty, just like I like it when
I'm fifty or sixty. Where a lot of us all
over the country, if you live in the South, if
you live in Texas, if you live you know, on
the West coast, you're not in freezing cold temperatures. Where's
(56:38):
hockey Big Michigan, Minnesota, the Dakota's where it's freezing cold, Canada, Russia?
So like, it is a very geographically specific sport where baseball, basketball,
and football are played in all those areas as well,
and hockey is just not that pop I would imagine
(57:01):
if you go to Texas, or you go to North
or South Carolina or Florida. I know they have pro
teams there, but I'm just talking about you know, people
playing lacrosse has become more more and more popular over
the last twenty years, right, but where is it the
most popular? In the Northeast? So like the more and
(57:24):
more people that are young that play directly benefit the
sport on television at the highest level. And more people,
way more people in America play basketball or have played
basketball than have ever played hockey. So I think that's
a huge alec and it's just it's a it's specifically
(57:45):
it's played on ice where I also think, like every
generation now basketball is a way bearer sport, but it
also has like just massive superstars. When I was a
kid who had I grew up on Michael Joe and
then we've morphed into Lebron and Steph those are three
of the biggest. I mean, Michael's in my lifetime. The
(58:07):
biggest athlete of my lifetime is Michael Jordan, and I
would put Stephan Lebron on the short list not named
Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Tom Brady. I mean, it's just
Wayne Gretzky is a very very famous individual, but like
he is by far, I would say, the most famous
hockey player still to this day, there's like a Ruthie
(58:27):
in quality to him. I know, Sidney's big, Ovechkin's big,
McDavid's big. I don't even think they approached Wayne Gretzky.
Wayne Gretzky was the last time he played hockey twenty
plus years. When you retire late nineties, so I think
if you are gonna have a lot of people that
(58:48):
don't play, you're gonna need an absolute superstar. He retired
in ninety nine, so he hasn't played in twenty five years.
I mean, look at Michael Jordan. I mean, Michael Jordan
hasn't place. It's two thousand and three. This year I
graduated high school. I'm forty years old. Now, I would
say Michael Jordan, I mean, it's as famous as ever.
(59:11):
I mean, his shoes are more popular than ever every
single person, I would say, most people in America that
just fall a sports you just say Michael Jordan. I
mean it feels like he's as famous as he's ever been.
I would say. The other thing is, how many people
do you see wearing Jordan's now? I mean they've become Listen,
(59:31):
call me old school. It's not like I wear suits
very often. I think wearing tennis shoes with a suit
is a fucking ugly look. I think it's a trend
that I'm just not behind, and I don't pretend to be.
You know, the trendiest individual, but I think it's a
terrible look, but it's really popular, and it's just really
popular just I would say Jordan's in general. People wear
(59:55):
them all over the place. Wherever you go, you see them,
And I guess it's a long winded way of saying
I don't think there's much hockey can do. I think
there's a weather dynamic there that's tough to overcome and
won't ever be overcome. It doesn't mean like if you
turn on a playoff hockey game, it's not if you
like sports and competition, it's not an incredible product. I
(01:00:18):
don't know. I would say the same about baseball and basketball,
Like you turn on Nick Pacers, is gonna be a war?
You turned on Denver and Oka see a lot of
those games, like this is incredible competition, and it's like
we just know. I don't really know. I follow sports
for a living. It's like the only thing I've ever
loved beside like my family, most of my life. And
(01:00:41):
I don't really know the rules like icing kind of
get that like some penalt high sticking, like can you
not throw the puck? Like I don't Baseball, basketball and football,
I think it helps to all these games are somewhat complicated.
There are some rules. I would say most sports fans
like understand what they're watching. It's what makes like trying
(01:01:02):
to watch stuff you don't know, Like if I throw
on trying to pick a random so like cricket, you know,
it looks kind of cool, but I got no clue
what's going on. None. You could argue that's easy to
follow about golf, like pretty basic parbardy or bogie. You know,
I was like, hit it out of bounds, you got
to rehit, hit in the water, you gott to drop it.
(01:01:24):
It's not really that complicated. You know, football is really complicated,
but we've been watching for so long we have a
somewhat of a pretty good idea of mostly what's going on. Baseballs,
you could argue the most basic, get three outs, get
three strikes, four balls. You know, you got nine guys
the bat and you just rotate. Get nine innings. It's
(01:01:47):
just you got four bases. So I think the the
ease to understand everything helps too. So I think there
are probably a lot of dynamics again respect hockey, but
I'd be lying if I said like I was super
locked in about it.
Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
The volume m hm
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