3 & Out - Reaction to Aaron Rodgers & Steelers DOMINATING Tua & Dolphins on MNF - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? John Middlecoff three
and out podcast, brought to you by my friends at

(00:23):
Zone Pouches. How are we doing? Probably better than Tua
and the Dolphins who just kind of got worked by
Rogers and the Steelers. Aaron had a good night. Looks
freezing cold out there. It was eighty degrees today in Scottsdale,
I think the low of seven degrees in Pittsburgh. So
I couldn't really relate sitting on my couch, but I

(00:45):
respect Rogers playing with a broken hands, slinging that pill
all over the place. Two. On the other hand, they
get there three weeks early. They go train in Alaska.
It is not gonna matter. I have seen enough. Michah
Parsons injury is now confirmed. Torn Acl some thoughts on
the Packers. I got an interesting direct message today about

(01:08):
older quarterbacks playing in the NFL. Why we've been so
quick to give up on young guys. We'll dive into
that as well as a little mail bag at John Middlecoff.
At John Middlecoff is the Instagram. We will do a
little mail bag today and yeah, that'll probably wrap us
up for this Monday pod. But other than that, if

(01:29):
you listen on Collins Feed. Make sure you subscribe to
three and out feed. I appreciate all of you that do.
We also got a YouTube channel, we go Live. We'll
be live Thursday night Massive Massive Game Rams Seattle, potentially
for the number one seed, so we will be live
after that. We put all of our content on there
as well, so make sure you subscribe and yet, but

(01:50):
before we dive into some football, you know, I gotta
tell you all my friends, my partners, and the official
ticketing app of this podcast, listen, I have nothing but respect,
and I mean this from the bottom of my heart.
I have the utmost respect for you. If you are
a football fan in the Midwest or the Northeast and
you attend games in November, especially December or January, those

(02:11):
fans today at Pittsburgh listen. I've been to a lot
of games against the Pittsburgh Steelers, playing the Raiders, playing
the forty nine Ers. They show up on the road,
but they show up at home and freezing cold conditions.
So if you ever want to go to a game,
Buffalo Bills fan, a Patriot fan, a Ravens or a
Steeler fan, an Eagles fan, any of these Chicago I

(02:32):
mean you guys might be hosting playoff games. Got a
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today last minute tickets lowess prices guaranteed. Let's dive into
the game. You know, Aaron, The game kicked off and

(03:15):
it was freezing cold. You could tell when Scott Van
Pelt and Kelsey and Ryan Clark in almost a booger,
But it wasn't booger. It's Marcus Spears were on the field.
They looked like they were wearing ten layers. You can
see their breath saying. It was like fifteen to sixteen
degrees one of our producers at the volume four of
the show, Noah Lives in Pittsburgh, said it was seven

(03:37):
degrees when they woke up this morning. It's freezing cold,
and listen. I'm a West Coast guy. I like the heat,
but I've lived in Philly. I lived in Kansas City
my senior year in college during the fall. Like I
understand Daniel Jeremiah, who calls games on radio for the Chargers,
I think either put out on Twitter or said something

(03:58):
on radio. He thought the field in Kansas City felt
like concrete. These places in the Midwest, these places in
the Northeast in December, it's freezing cold, and then when
you factor in if it's windy, you can't even imagine
playing football in these conditions. Those of you that live
in you know, in those areas, you understand it. But

(04:19):
there is a big difference just going outside, getting in
your car, going to work or picking up your kids,
then playing a football game like it's It's pretty hard.
And in the scouting community there is a reason we
talk about arm strength and velocity. It doesn't matter as
much if you're playing at Sofi Stadium. It doesn't matter
as much if you're playing in San Francisco. It doesn't.

(04:41):
Drew Brees did not have a great arm, played his
whole career in a dome. Jared Goff, I mean, decent
arm benefits a lot from playing in Los Angeles and
now playing in a dome in Detroit. Look at his
record career outside not as great. Why it's more difficult.
And when you don't have a really strong arm to
pierce the cold to here's the wind, it can be

(05:01):
hard to function. Who's the greatest quarterback of all time?
Tom Brady? What did he hang his hat on? Threw
a tight spiral, threw it hard, pierce the win. Most
of the best quarterbacks, especially in the Internet era, in
that region of the country, had big arms. Ben Roethlisberger,
Joe Flacco, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb. Like you

(05:25):
need a big arm to get through the wind in
the cold. But no one likes playing in this weather.
Aaron Rodgers spent what seventeen eighteen years in Green Bay
where it is there might not be I mean Detroit.
Maybe Minnesota would be colder, but they play in it dun't.
Maybe Buffalo, but Buffalo feels like it snows more often

(05:47):
than it gets that frigid sleet and in Green Bay,
he's played in countless games in the low single digits,
and he said tonight he won his fifty ninth game
tonight in cold, inclement conditions, and he said, it sucks.
And it got me thinking, like, no one likes doing it,
just like in life, right. I read a study recently

(06:08):
that most the majority of self made multi millionaires get
up before six am. Most human beings I've met, even
successful ones, like to sleep. But it's kind of the
price of admission. If you want to be good at something,
you kind of need to work hard, and most people
get up early. I mean, it kind of comes with
the territory. As you get older, you don't want to

(06:30):
be fat. What do you need to do? Eat healthy?
What does that usually mean? A lot of salads, a
lot of vegetables. I like steak, I like pizza, I
like ice cream as much as the next guy. But
if I want to lose weight, I gotta mix in
some salads. It sucks. Kind of what you gotta do.
If you're gonna be a good functional quarterback in the NFL,

(06:50):
you have to play well outside in cold weather. No
one likes doing it. Does that look fun, of course not.
Can you imagine how much it hurts when you get
hit in those conditions running backs and wide receivers over
the middle. It's miserable, but you have to do it.
There's no way to get around it. And when you
play in the AFC. You look at Aaron Rodgers even

(07:13):
at forty two years old, and tonight he was brilliant.
I mean, he looked fantastic. But I've said forever Aaron
Rodgers at forty two, the velocity in which he throws
a ball, as long as he doesn't have a major
injury as he gets older, once he retires from football,
if you grabbed him at sixty two years old, he
is gonna be able to sling that pill. Why he

(07:34):
just has a powerful arm. Dan Marino's same thing. If
you just got Dan Marino to throw a fifteen yard
out route, he would throw the ball with more velocity
than tu A Tongua ba Loa. And the problem for
Tua is he's from Hawaii, played at Alabama, great weather,
not cold. Now he plays in Miami, where I think
they said the night it was seventy seven degrees. Today

(07:56):
I live in Scottsdale, it was seventy nine degrees today.
When I took the dog to the grass this morning
about seven forty five in the morning, it's kind of hot.
How can I relate to what I just witnessed in Pittsburgh,
New Slash. I can't. Here's the problem for Tua. Despite
playing eight or nine games depending on the season, in Miami,

(08:17):
he plays in a division with Buffalo, New England, and
New York. He plays in a conference with the AFC
North where they're all frigid temperatures coming around early November,
Kansas City, which might be the coldest place in the conference,
and he's played there countless times in all these spots
in cold weather, and he looked terrible. Meanwhile, a forty

(08:39):
two year old now you can say, hey, Johnny's one
of the greatest quarterbacks in the history the league. True,
he's also forty two years old, and he has a
broken left hand, and he had no trouble to night
functioning at all. Let's be real. He has one wide
receiver on his team. Now, he has multiple tight ends
that are pretty good. One of them is a three
hundred pound guy that could easily transition to right tackle

(09:02):
and for my money, could probably be a pro bowler.
I mean I text a couple people in the NFL.
They're like his physical attributes. He could make that transition. Listen,
He's fun to watch, hard to tackle. My recommendation to
Darnel Washington would be just Google spot Track or what
any of the contract websites and click on the tight

(09:22):
ends and their contracts, and then click on the tackles
and their contracts. So again, it's fun catching the ball, cool,
scoring touchdowns, awesome breaking tackles. Those guys make a lot
more money. And this game if you want to, you know,
break the NFL down, not for long, can end at
any moment, you might as well cash in. But listen
to each their own. But tonight was a great display

(09:46):
of you cannot function with one player, and one guy,
even at forty two years old, who is a far
cry from his prime, was completely unfazed by tonight. And
you know, obviously the Steelers listen just on the game specifically,
that was impressive because early on in that game, Mike
McDaniel brings these guys to the snow right a couple

(10:08):
of days ago. They practice outdoors and it's fun. It
makes for great highlights and Troy Aikman and ESPN's running
with it, and I'm watching with my wife, were smiling.
It's it's it's funny, it's it's it's good television. It
doesn't mean shit if your quarterback has a p shooter arm.
And that's exactly what we watched tonight. And by all accounts,

(10:29):
too was a good guy. He's not a very good player.
And the final score, if you didn't watch a snap
of the night, you could click on the box score,
you could click on the final score, you could click
on his numbers. He must have done pretty well. No,
he was atrocious. One guy looked good the other guy
for the majority of the game until they were down

(10:50):
twenty eight to three. They almost refused to call passes
for why because they've basically avoided him for the last
couple of weeks. And when when you draft people high,
I think we've learned a couple lessons in recent years.
Really over the course of the last decade. Stop drafting five, nine, five, ten,
five eleven quarterbacks top of the first round. That's you're

(11:12):
bound to get fired doing that. This is a big
man sport. You don't need to be six to six,
but it's gonna be very difficult to play quarterback at
a high level if you're under six feet because all
your offensive linemen are six three to six six. Just
do basic math. You can't see it's been a huge
problem for a lot of quarterbacks. Hell, it was just
on display in the NFC South with Tyler Schuck making

(11:34):
more big plays down the stretch than a little Bryce Young.
Why because Bryce Young's five foot nine, Tyler Shuck's like
six foot five. And I just think tonight you watch Tua,
his arm is just not functional in the cold and
we have enough evidence now this is not gonna change.
And the Dolphins as a team, like through two quarters,

(11:56):
right until the end of the half, it looks like,
is there much of a difference from a physicality of
the Dolphins defense and the physicality of the Steelers defense.
And the answer was no, The Dolphins were actually playing
really well. I was like, I'm really impressed. They're showing
some hard Even Troy Aikman was like, these guys have
not quit. He's like, hell, yeah, they have not. Mike
has done a you know, deserves credit for keeping his

(12:20):
team fighting and came to this situation in the cold
weather where historically the franchise well before he got there,
never had a shot, which I've always understood, like I
completely understand as human beings. If you're in LA if
you're in northern California, if you're in Arizona, if you're
in Miami, and then you just go to Kansas City
in late December like that, there's no practice that can

(12:42):
get you ready at home for that, it doesn't exist.
It's way easier to go from the cold to the
warm than the warm to the cold. But there are
simple things like if your arm is weak. It is
not like Matt Stafford now plays in Los Angeles right
last year in the playoffs where was Philly in a cold
weather game, he had no trouble. Why he has a

(13:03):
massive arm. He throws ninety eight miles an hour. He's
unfazed by the weather. Even though all of his career
either in Detroit in a dome or now in la
in a dome, it doesn't impact the majority of his games,
but his skill set. If he would have been drafted
once upon a time by the Ravens, by the Steelers,
by the Chiefs, by the Bills, he would have been fine,

(13:25):
and to us simply as not, just like a lot
of other quarterbacks that have average to blow average arms.
They can't function in these moments. Meanwhile, he got Aaron
Rodgers doing this with his eyes closed. He'd be able
to throw in this weather. Even as he said, I
don't like this. I'm from California, I live in Malibu
in the offseason. Like I like the warmth. Most humans do.

(13:45):
But tonight is my overall takeaway was like I didn't
necessarily have any different thoughts on the Steelers, Like I
don't think they're going anywhere. I hope TJ Watt in
this dry needling. I'm glad it didn't kill him or anything.
Thank God that they got him to the hospital, you know,
fast enough, and hopefully he can come back and their

(14:06):
defense can be strong. But if I was a betting man,
I would say they're one and done in the playoffs. Now,
potentially they could draw someone like the Chargers, who are
missing a bunch of offensive linemen, and maybe they have a chance,
you know, to win that game. But like if they
played the Bills, if they play the Houston Texans, I
do not think they're winning those games. Chargers is a

(14:26):
game they could win, though, you know, Jim Harbaugh jesse
Menter justin Herbert, Like I think they have a coaching
and quarterback advantage. Now both quarterbacks have broken left hands.
Maybe I just give it the slight edge to Herbert
and the youth and his ability to you know, run.
I mean, Rogers can still move around a little bit,
but he's not scrambling much. And yeah, so like I

(14:51):
view the Steelers the same that they've kind of rided
the ship over the last couple of weeks, beating the Ravens,
winning tonight. They have another big game this week against
the Lions. I think they are gonna be rooting heavily
for the Patriots this week to take take down the Ravens.
And you know, I think it's all gonna come down
to just based on the simple math. Unless the Ravens
lose the next two weeks and the Steelers win the

(15:12):
next two weeks, then you know, Week eighteen won't matter.
But I think if we're all betting, man that that
game Week eighteen will be winner wins the division and
is the four seed. And you know, unless Lamark can
flip it back to two years ago, I think most
people are gonna bet against those two teams. Whoever wins
it in the first round, and right right now, I
give a slight edge to the Steelers, but especially because

(15:36):
that games in Pittsburgh and felt like they're fans again.
I never get mad at fans. You know, when they
booed Tomlin and Channer fire Tomlin when you look crappy,
it's like they're booing Jalen Hurts and the Eagles they're
the defending champs. It's like, yeah, they just went three
and out seventeen straight times. What were they supposed to do?
Cheer beg them some cookies? Like what are we talking
about here? But I just think that the Dolphins don't

(15:58):
have a choice, and I understand, and he still got
guaranteed money on his contract next year, and that that
contract at the time was insane. It's aged even worse.
I thought the same thing about Kyler Murray. I mean,
those two contracts will go down obviously the result and
the ending of Russell Wilson. It was an awful contract,
but I did understand them doing it. Like if I

(16:21):
was in Denver shoes, I would have done everything they
did to acquire Russell Wilson. Most people would have, right,
But when it came to Tua, and when it came
to Kyler Murray, those were two contracts like are you
guys sure, You guys don't need to do this right now.
You can play it out another year. And for Tua,
that's one they clearly regret. And listen, I don't say

(16:42):
this with any joy, I really don't care, but I
would cut him this offseason. You know, obviously you would
love to trade him. I think he's a borderline untradable player.
You never say never, because we have seen guys like, oh,
what are they? They're not gonna be able to get
rid of this guy, and sometimes they can. Maybe you
have to attach a pick maybe like Tua and a

(17:02):
third just to unload him for like a sixth But
you can't roll this guy back because the team actually
turned around when they started playing defense and running the
ball and avoiding having him throw. And he'd be like, well,
Johnny through a couple touchdowns in the fourth Quarter's like, yeah,
watched the first three quarters of the game. It was
twenty eight three for a reason, and he was a
big part of it. Because they couldn't that they can't

(17:22):
function in the passing game because one, he can't scramble
that's the other thing, you know, for this little guy
with a p shooter arm, he's got now athletic ability. Right,
Aaron Rodgers is the same age as Tua, even regardless
that he had a great arm, could really move and
keep plays alive, like was a fantastic athlete. Tua brings
none of that to the table. I think sometimes you

(17:43):
watch Tua, like when he just moves a couple steps,
you think, oh there's something. No, he's closer to like
Jared Goff than he is some of these mobile quarterbacks.
That's the crazy part. Like, I mean, it's listen, it's
easy to play Monday Morning quarterback and once we have
the results, no different information. But to think that once
upon a time, and in fairness, I think Tom Telesco,

(18:07):
who's buddies with everyone in the end or everyone in
the media, has told every like he would have taken
Tua as well. But Tua want to pick above justin
Herbert think about that guy six foot six, huge arm man,
can run, high character guy, accurate passer. I mean, that's
that's that's an all timer. But Miami made this selection.
A bunch of people have lost their job since and

(18:29):
Mike is still kind of surviving because he's really good
at scheming the run. But I think this offseason, if
they can't trade him, they got to cut him. It's
just time to cut bait and move on, right. Sometimes
he's got to make a tough decision, and you know, listen,
the Steelers are going to be in a similar situation
this offseason, Like is Rogers coming back? Maybe he will.
If Tom's coming back and they try to run it back,

(18:51):
even though I don't think much would change with their team.
Maybe they could, you know, invest in some more weapons,
but listen, you got quarterback, big picture question marks. That's
never a place, you know, a great place to be now.
Luckily for the Steelers, they can function and win with
their guy right now. Right even though he's old and

(19:11):
not nearly as good as he once was, he's still
got some bullets in the in that chamber, and he
was letting him fly tonight, and he made some beautiful passes.
The touchdown to DK was just just a great ball
between a couple defenders, and obviously DK did the rest
just a freak show. But they did a really good
job coaching tonight because if you stopped the run for Miami,

(19:32):
they got no shot to beat you with the pass,
and Gainwell had some big plays tonight. Jalen Warren, who
was sick I think a couple of days ago, came
up on the injury report, was running hard. Obviously, DK
and the tight ends were making plays. But like, you
should beat Miami, right, I mean, at the end of
two months ago, most people out they were the worst
team in the league. Now clearly they're not. Listen. Mike McDaniel.

(19:54):
People make fun of him because he's kind of dorky looking.
He knows what he's doing. I'll promise you that you
don't work for a decade with guys like McVeigh, Kyle,
the Laflor Brothers, Like Mike really knows what he's doing.
I've talked to Kyle used check about it, George Kittle
about him back when I used to interview those guys
when I lived in the Bay Area. Like Mike McDaniel

(20:16):
was extremely well thought of inside the forty nine er
locker room. From a player standpoint, like, he's really bright
when it comes to the run game, and you just listen.
He got by for a couple of years when he
had peak Tyreek Hill, but you just you can't function
with this guy, and that was on full display tonight.
So congrats to the Steelers who definitely control their own destiny.

(20:38):
And Mike Tomlin just refuses to have a losing record.
A couple other things before we get out of here,
you know, you get a lot of credit. Speaking of
Aaron Rodgers, right, I have listen for me. He's one
of the best players I've ever watched in any sport.
But this year when he broke his hand to come
back like he did, and even the night there were

(20:58):
a couple of moments where he's kind of grimacing, it's
like there is no one can argue. You see this
with Rivers, like no one ever disputes. And as a
football player, like there are some industries, like you want
to be known as like so and so if you
work in finance, like this guy's got balls. This guy
is not afraid to take some big swings. Right, if
you're a football player, I think most people want to

(21:19):
be known as a couple of things. Obviously a winner
or a winning player, and like that was a tough
sob that was the guy I could go to war with.
And anytime you get that label as a player like that,
goes with you for a long way, and clearly, Rogers,
you watch him this year like no one, not that
anyone ever did. But like at forty two, he does
not need to be doing this to rush back with

(21:41):
the broken hands like that's that's pretty badass. I would
say the same thing about Herbert, and the difference is
like Herbert's because of his team, like and because he's younger,
is running a lot more. It's like this dude stiff
arming guys with a cast on his left hand. Two
weeks ago against the Eagles, he's diving head first, like
this is insane. You do not need to do this.

(22:02):
But proving your toughness to your teammates and your coaches
is a big part of football, and it gives you
a lot of like extra credit the way we discuss
and talk about you as a player, your career, your legacy.
I think the same thing goes for coaches. Right, let's
use Kyle Shanahan as an example. More than likely the

(22:23):
forty nine Ers are not gonna make the Super Bowl,
So just based on the results of the season, this
will not be his most successful season as a forty
nine Ers coach. Right, He's made the Super Bowl multiple
times twenty nineteen and twenty twenty three. Hell, there's a
decent chance that the forty nine ers, if they're the four,

(22:44):
you know, the sixth seed, they could lose in the
first round of the Eagles. Like, that's not inconceivable, right,
because the guys they're playing with. But to me, this
is one and you can be like, well, John, they
have their schedule hasn't been as hard as as some
previous years. Like, yeah, they played some easy teams, but
they've also played without guys making thirty five million dollars.

(23:06):
Their star pass rusher, their first round pick from Georgia,
their Hall of Fame middle linebacker. Their defense is a
bunch of guys that most casual NFL fans couldn't point
out of the lineup. They had to win countless games
this season with Michael mccorkol Jones aka Mac Jones. If
I would have told you at the beginning of the season,

(23:27):
Mac Jones is gonna start about half the games for
the forty nine Ers, what's gonna happen? You're like, your
screwed season's over. Oh yeah, Brandon at Yuk is basically
gonna get kicked off the team. Uh, the debo gets traded,
so they're playing with Juwan Jennings, who then gets injured.
They have to pre Kendrick Born who gets cut from
the Patriots, and DeMarcus Robinson who suspended the first couple
of games because of the dewey. Oh yeah, and they

(23:49):
throw for like four hundred yards against the Rams on
the road on a short week and beat him with
mac Jones thrown to those guys. George Kittle's also injured.
He's on short term I are because he pulled his mstring.
You get a lot of credit for doing that as
a why, because it's really difficult. Now, Obviously, the best coaches,
if you give them the best teams, are going to
be better than most people. It's why when you give

(24:09):
McVeigh or Kyle or Andy or Sean Payton or vrabel
loaded teams, they're typically gonna be locks for the playoffs.
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star offensive players, it can derail you, and it can
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(26:01):
New Jersey, Ohio Tennis Steve Virginia. The thing I respect
the most about the Packers is just over the course
of my life, how consistent they've been. And they've had
one message basically starting with Homegrown and Ron Wolf through
the group they have. Now, what happened on Sunday was

(26:25):
pretty bad, right, I mean, there's no way around it.
Just if you're a fan of the NFL, and if
you're people like me that aren't even a fan of
the Packers but had some money on them to make
deep runs, it's probably over and it would be a
little stunning now if they make the Super Bowl, right, Hell,
it's gonna be hard for them to win the division.
I mean, I would imagine as this week goes, most people, pundits, fans,

(26:50):
people that watch football be I bet the Bears beat
them at home, and this is when you kind of
can up your stock as a coach. And Lafleur, who
came into the season kind of on a prove it
year for the guy right. The new president said, so like, yeah,
we're not extending the GM or the coach. GM's not
going anywhere. But I do think that Matt Lafleur over

(27:13):
the course of these next three games and even in
the playoffs, like his expectations aren't super bow or busts anymore.
But I would say if he's able to win the division,
help make it to the playoffs, and win a playoff game,
I think a lot of people would give you a
lot of credit. Jeff Hafley, their defensive coordinator, who let's
just say there are six job openings this offseason, will

(27:34):
probably interview for five of them. Well, if your defense
losing Micah Parsons over the next couple weeks doesn't skip
a beat, looks really good, and in that playoff game,
maybe you're the seven seed or sixth seed or who
knows how this thing breaks. You don't host a playoff game.
You got to go on the road and your defense dominates,
and you guys win a playoff game, and you're a

(27:55):
big reason for it. I think that only ups your stock.
So like a player who is injured, we give a
lot of extra credit to It's no different with coaches.
Part of the reason. Andy Reid obviously had a lot
of early success with the Eagles, but one of the
things that really turned him into a legend, you know,
early on for being an offensive guru, was like Donovan

(28:16):
McNabb would get injured and he would just take guys
like Jay Feely or Jeff Garcia late in his career
and just like rattle off wins and still sneak into
the playoffs and it didn't really matter. And I think Lafleur,
who still has his quarterback, who still has some of
his core guys on offensive defense, like they're not done,

(28:36):
Like it's not over. Like if you are a really
good coach and you're a guy that's expecting the Packers
to give you, you know, twelve to fifteen million dollars
a year, a huge extension for the next five or
six years. And if you're halfway a guy that thinks
that can't miss defensive coordinator, because guess what, most of
these teams you're going to aren't gonna have for Sean
Gary and Michael Parsons, They're gonna have bad players. That's

(28:59):
why they're shit. So I'm fascinated to see, like, I
like these I've watched a lot of halfway press conferences
over the last month. A lot of you guys ford him.
To me, He's clearly a very, very impressive guy, there
is no arguing that. And he's done an excellent job
as a defensive coordinator for the Packers. But I think
these two guys right now can kind of rally the
troops as the offensive coordinator in the defensive coordinators. You know,

(29:22):
obviously he's the head coach as well as the play caller.
But I think a lot of people, and I'm guilty
of this too, a Packer's done seasons over That's not
the way football works now. You might not just rattle
off a bunch of victories and end up in the
super Bowl, but like you could still win eleven games,
win the division, and win a playoff game and get
a lot of credit from your fan base and from

(29:43):
your new president and from just internally people in your organization.
So I think I don't blame Lafleur last night when
he was interviewed in the postgame press conference, when he
looked like he saw ghost, when he looked like his
you know, his life was about to end. We all
would have acted the same way. But part of being
the leader, part of being essentially the commander of chief

(30:06):
of you know, football team is like you gotta shake
that frown, turn it upside down, you know, fucking put
on a smile and figure shit out and do it fast.
And you play the Bears on a short week. You
don't have a choice because a lot of people are
gonna be watching this game on Saturday night, especially when
you factor in the college football playoff games in the
afternoon night are atrocious. I meant, we potentially like a

(30:29):
fifty point blowout at night, so all the eyeballs are
gonna be on you. And if you win that game,
I think a lot of people all over the country,
just fans of football, would be very, very impressed. And
it would go a long way to this, to this
potential world where you get a big extension this offseason
because you would have earned it. That's what high level
coaching is. When things don't go your way. You give

(30:51):
me Peyton Manning, you give me Lawrence Taylor, you give
me you know, Ladanian Tomlinson, you give me Tony Gonzalz.
You give me some loaded team. I could coach that team,
but that's not the NFL. This is not college football,
where the best teams all got the sweetest players. A
lot of people got injuries. Held the year the Packers
won it with Aaron Rodgers in twenty ten, my first

(31:12):
year with the Eagles, when they beat us in the
playoffs and rattle off a bunch of victories, all of
a sudden they won the Super Bowl. I think they
had like twenty or something guys on injury reserve. They
had a ton of guys hurt. Kind of put Mike
McCarthy on the map and elevated his status to a
completely different level in the NFL because of what he
did that season with all the injuries. So I'm fascinated

(31:33):
to watch the Packers, and the more and more I
think about it, I got to be pretty careful to
not just count them out. And last, but not least,
I want to end on this because I got this
DMM from Roger and I thought it was pretty interesting
for those of you watching, we'll maybe put it up
here on the screen. Is Rogers shot me this on
Instagram and it said why are there so many old

(31:57):
quarterbacks starting in the NFL. Year after year, hundreds of
college kids are drafted by NFL teams, and typically the
highly drafted qbs are projected to be stars because of
their super athletic ability. Yet year after year, these talents
like Fields, Anthony Richardson and others eventually get passed over

(32:18):
for older players. Flacco was fun for a minute. Aaron
Rodgers can't take a hit. Philip Rivers just the latest
to get signed off the couch. Where are all? Where
did all the young talent go? And why are NFL
front offices perpetuating this trend. I've been thinking a lot
about this because I think it's pretty easy anyone that

(32:39):
falls Gruden on social media or just obviously since when
he used to do the ESPN Quarterback Camps. There was
a video. I think it was last offseason going into
the draft, so it would have been like, you know,
maybe March of this year, he had Jackson Dart in
the FFCA, the Fired Football Coaches of America, and he

(33:01):
did what he used to do on ESPN where they
kind of just you know, talk football, and he had
Jackson Dart give him the snapcount from Ole Miss That's
where Jackson Dart played for Lane Kiffin, who was just
the number one coaching candidate in college football. And I
would say, widely considered currently the top if not the
top two or three offensive guy in the sport on Saturdays.

(33:24):
And Gruden, who the video of Vinny Testaverdi just went
viral of him doing snapcounts and getting guys to jump offside.
It sounded a lot like football in the seventies, the eighties,
the nineties, the two thousands. Then Jackson Dart did the
snap count and it was a clap, and Gruden's like, well,
what does it sound like? What it's on two? And

(33:45):
he gave him two claps. Because college football, which that's
where the NFL gets their talent, is producing guys in
offenses that is pretty simplistic, and a lot of the
clapping they look over to the sideline and get the
play from the coach that tells them to run the
play they're giving them because they've already looked at the defense.

(34:05):
So all the manipulating on the field that let's say
Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers can and will do, they
have never been taught to do that. And historically, when
I worked at Fresno State, one reason the NFL scouted
our team so heavily and we produced so many guys
in the NFL because we ran an NFL offense. We

(34:26):
ran an offense that looked like every team in the
NFL now. College Back in the late two thousands and
definitely the early twenty tens, everyone started spreading it out.
Now in the NFL, teams still spread it out, but
their terminology it is much more complicated than one of
a lot of these offenses for Lincoln Riley that have
a couple words as a play call. You have heard

(34:47):
all these quarterbacks over the year years spit out these
play calls and they have like fifteen to twenty words,
and they're giving you multiple options to the line of scrimmage.
And here's the other thing. Forever, in college football coaches,
the profession from an assistant standpoint has always been very nomadic.

(35:07):
But I bet if you went back in the eighties,
the nineties and even the two thousands, a lot of
the good programs had pretty consistent head coaches, and even
as coordinators came and went, the schemes stayed pretty specific.
So if you ran an NFL operation right like Pete
Carroll at USC, or what Boise State was doing with
Chris Peterson or Pat Hill or Bobby Bowden or wherever,

(35:29):
you just went around Nick Saban. It was a consistent
message your entire career. Well, now the transfer portal exists,
so these players are transferring all over the place coaches
because of this crazy money. The nomadic nature of them
leaving jobs to just go to other jobs that a
lot of people think aren't even like a vertical leap,

(35:52):
happens more and more so. Guys progress in college to
learn complicated stuff doesn't really exist, and then the amount
of stuff that they actually learned, because they're jumping ship
from place to place, your knowledge actually isn't as best.
And then once you get to the NFL, while you
spend a lot of time in the classroom, there are

(36:13):
a lot of limitations on practice time. Because of the
CBA that was passed back in twenty eleven or twenty twelve,
double days don't exist. The amount of time that you
could wear pads in practice during the season has been
limited greatly, and if you break that, people on your
team union reps will turn you in. So you can

(36:35):
spend time in the classroom. But let's face it, the
majority of human beings, especially in an industry like football,
learn on the field. So even if I take information
from the classroom. If I don't get the opportunity, as
coaches would say, to rep it at practice, it's hard
to improve. And I also think the money in the

(36:57):
NFL has never been greater, so before coaches would get
more time, partly because if you signed a four or
five year contract, I would never fire you after two
years because I wouldn't want to pay you to not work.
Now paying you to go away means nothing. I think

(37:18):
someone reported this, like Albert Breer, that at an owner's meetings,
maybe like two years ago or a year ago, Roger
Goodell stood up in front of all the owners and
gave the total of money that they were paying coaches
to not work, and it was like hundreds of millions
of dollars. But to these guys in this world of

(37:41):
an NFL that's making billions upon billions of dollars, it
actually wasn't that much money. Because teams do it all
the time because financially doesn't impact them at all. So
I do think the turnover with coaching, the nomadic nature
now of players, and over the course of the LAFE
last ten to fifteen years, the expansion of the quote

(38:03):
unquote spread has I would say change the gap between
the NFL and college more than ever. So these guys
get to the pros and I remember when Phil Savage
used to run the Senior Boy. He's good friends of
mine and he what they always do at the beginning

(38:23):
of the week is the coaches go to the quarterbacks, right,
and you get quarterbacks from Oregon to smaller schools, you
name it, all over the country. Raise your hand if
you've ever been under center. Most guys don't raise their hand,
and that includes high school football. So I think the
gap of the training for which you have to be

(38:45):
retrained once you get to the pros and then time
isn't really on your side. You know, Colin has the theory,
and I don't think he's totally wrong. Is most guys,
if you start as a rookie, you get to like
your second year Thanksgiving, teams have kind of made a
decision whether we're gonna keep wrong with you, you're gonna
be a franchise quarterback, or we're gonna have to pivot.
And we've seen in recent you know years, that some

(39:06):
guys with the physical abilities you use. Anthea Richison clearly
he's just completely over his head. And maybe one day
years from now he'll figure it out, but he ain't
gonna figure it out for the Colts. And when he
is able to come back, and I saw a report
today that he's like been cleared and they can open
the practice window. If he was physically ready and completely

(39:27):
cleared today, they would one hundred percent start Philip Rivers
at forty four and two hundred and seventy five pounds
over Anthey Richardson at twenty three years old. Why because
they trust Rivers upstairs, and some of these guys they
don't learn anything in college because that's not really the
way they're coached. And then they get to the pros
and it becomes so mental and you have so much

(39:47):
catching up to do, but you also have to improve physically,
and there's just not time. And we've seen recent examples
of the Sam Darnolds and the Baker Mayfields and the
Daniel Jones. You just kind of get lost in the shuffle.
And when you lose your confidence, I don't care whether
you play football, whether you podcast, whether you sell insurance.
When you lose your confidence, it can be tough to
get it back as a younger person, and you have

(40:08):
to spend time just building that confidence back up, let
alone learning your craft. So I think part of the
thing that these older quarterbacks bring to the table is
they can speak the same language as the coach, and
whether we agree or disagree with that, coaches really value that.
They always have and they always will. If I don't
trust you out on the field, it's hard for me

(40:31):
to play you, especially with our season on the line.
So you use Joe Flacco? Well, why did the Bengals
trade for Joe Flacko in the middle of the year
Because they were desperate to try to win games and
they thought he gave them a better chance some random
young kid around the league. Why did they call Philip
Rivers back? Because they think Philip Rivers gives them a
better chance than Nthey Ridgardson. They believe that to their core,

(40:54):
and clearly most of these times, I don't hear anyone
in the locker room bitching and moaning about the decision
because usually the players agree. So I just think times
have changed dramatically. The development. There's not that much time
to develop, and I think part of the blame on
that comes on the players because back in twenty eleven
they were adamant they needed more time off they needed

(41:17):
no double days, they didn't want to practice, and the
owners were glad to give it to them because they
kept more money in their pocket. And the players fought
for something that actually not only did not have financial value,
but limited the upside of future players in the league.
And I think over the course, it's like sometimes governments

(41:40):
make decisions. It's like, well, heart was in the right place,
but yeah it didn't work. So yeah, your heart was
in the right place, but your decision, the law you passed,
or the decision you made in some you know, city
ordinance was a complete failure. So fucking give yourself a
thumbs up for having your heart in the right place

(42:01):
for saying we tried. This is a results oriented business,
and the decision that happened back to cbas Ago, I
would say, has had major, major ripple effects on the
quarterback position when it comes to the development of young players.

(42:29):
We're gonna do a little Middlecoff mailbag at John Middlecoff.
At John Middlecoff is the Instagram firing those dms and
get your questions answered on the show. Very very easy
to do. Again, it's just my Instagram account. Dms wide
open fire in them and get your questions answered here
like Tyler question for the pod see how easy this is?

(42:53):
Is it in the realm of possibility to trade Chris
Jones for Mac Jones and a third or fourth round pick.
Chiefs are obviously gonna need a quarterback for at least
half the season, if not the entire year. Mac won't
resign after next year to be a backup again after
he bawled out in the games that he started for

(43:13):
the Niners, and Chris Jones likely isn't going to get
an extension from the Chiefs after this contract. Or is
this the type move that the Chiefs just play who
they've got and hope to hit on some relatively higher
draft picks. I don't hate where your mindset is. I
do think the Chiefs are gonna trade Chris Jones this offseason.

(43:34):
I don't think the forty nine ers is a fit
for a couple reasons. One, they prove last year that
they desperately attempted to get way younger, and they got
rid of a bunch of veteran guys that were already
their guys that they really liked. I mean, every time
you watch the defense play for Denver, I mean, green
Laws solid, but I mean, Hufunga, it looks incredible, and

(43:56):
it was not easy to let those two guys go, right,
especially Green, I mean, they like flew to his house.
But Chris Jones makes a ton of money and his
cap hit is massive, and these deals are complicated. I
think the forty nine ers won, you know, I think
they would entertain mac Jones offers this offseason, especially pretty.
I get it was the Titans, but I mean if

(44:17):
he plays like that, I mean, you just you're paying
him a lot of money for a reason. You need
to use these assets. But I think they will desperately
try to get younger, and I just don't think they
have the financial flexibility to take on a guy who's
gonna want an extension an enormous money, who's an older player.
I mean, they're already dealing with with Bosa, who makes
a ton of money. He's coming off an injury. Fred's

(44:39):
coming off an injury. So they just proved right their
first two draft picks in twenty four were I guess
twenty twenty five, you know, Mikel Williams who hurt acl
and Collins, the big defensive tackle from Texas. I think
they'd just be more likely to just draft the defensive
lineman in like the first round. A defensive tackle, you know,
more of a pass rusher than than a run stuffer

(45:01):
like Collins. But I don't think Chris Jones would be
an option for them. I actually think when you look
at the Chiefs last year they traded Joe Toney to
the Bears, I think Chris Jones would probably end up
at a place with a team that has a lot
of financial flexibility with their quarterback. I think what the

(45:21):
Commanders would make some sense. You know, the Atlanta Falcons
look for a team with a rookie quarterback contract who
can who's going to be trying to win immediately and
can handle maybe, and again I have to check their
cap space, but I don't I don't think the Niners
will be in business of trading for an older veteran
player who makes a ton of money and who's gonna

(45:44):
want a new contract. But I like where your headst.
I think the forty nine ers would be more likely
to trade mac Jones one. It would take a lot
to get them, but like I think they would need
a second day pick and they would just want to
utilize that asset for cheap guy that would be a starter. Right,
So if you get, like, hey, some good team second
round pick, I guess a good team probably wouldn't be

(46:07):
likely to trade for him. But I don't know. I
honestly haven't really thought about his destination. That's probably more
of an offseason idea. I'm also hesitant to give him away.
I mean, he's just such a great insurance policy for
perty now. I think you could also argue, like, well,
two of the last three years they've been in really
good shape. Donald didn't have to play, but like clearly

(46:28):
they would have won games with Donald if they had to,
and they were forced this year, and they won games
with mac Jones. But we also saw last year like
they it was a lot of like Dobbs and Kyle Allen,
and it's hard. It's not an easy game to play.
So I personally would be inclined to keep him unless
I was blown away. I mean, if you get like
pick forty or something, Yeah, in your opinion, who's the

(46:51):
greatest tight end of all time? Kelsey may have the
postseason stats, but these last couple of years he has
been slowly falling off. I just want to bring up
his stats the last two years because I actually think
they look a lot better than the way people talk
about him. He by no means has been as bad,
I think as people think, because when you say fall off,

(47:15):
he's gonna end this year with eighty catches probably one
thousand yards and six seven touchdowns, and even last year
he had ninety seven catches for eight hundred and twenty
three yards. Now relative to what he once was, I
hear what you're saying. I mean, he's not near the
dominant force that he once was. I would say this
in my adult life watching this, you know, in the

(47:37):
last twenty plus years, twenty five years, because I think
if you go back to like the eighties and nineties,
I just don't feel as confident discussing those players. You know,
obviously Shannon Sharp, you know, an all time great receiving
tight end. Same with Tony Gonzalez. I think he almost
had to put him in two categories, right, like most
running backs to be a Hall of Fame running back,
even if you're a pass catcher like Marshall Fall. No

(48:00):
one disputed that Marshall Fall could just carry the offense
between the tackles or outside the tackles, like carrying the ball.
Same thing with Ladani and Thomlinson who is excellent catching
the ball. Same thing with McCaffrey, right, but like Adrian
Adrian Peterson also Hall of Famer, or will be like
catching wasn't his thing, Derrick Henry, same thing, like they
are true bell cow hand on the ball. I think

(48:23):
with tight ends there are little literally two styles. Right
Tony Gonzalez, who Hall of Famer is you had to
have a blocking tight end on the roster. I forget
his first name, something done back in the day with
the Chiefs, because Tony Gonzales, like wasn't holding the point
of attack on the edge to make sure that you

(48:45):
could run sweeps and outside you know runs right, So
like Kelsey is the same thing. And I think if
you break it into pass catching tight ends, Kelsey is
right there, if not the greatest, with that group of
great pass catch tight ends. And then they're like more
of your all around guy. And to me, Gronk in

(49:05):
his prime was an unstoppable force, and I would say
Kittle is right behind Gronk of like being an all
around tight end. Now if you could get in their prime. Now,
part of those guys is like they get banged up
a little bit more like George Kittle, Like there will
be games when he's pulling on defensive ends throughout the game,
right crushing line. They just ask him to have a

(49:26):
physical load that those other guys just aren't asked to do.
So I think you almost have to break it into
two categories. And you know, when you're a pass catching
tight end only not that Travis hasn't blocked, but that's
not his thing. It's almost like you're a DH, but
you're DH hitting sixty home runs right where the Gronks
and the Kelces they're essentially like a six offensive lineman.

(49:49):
So I would say over the course of the last
couple decades, it's pretty clear that it would be it
would be Tony Gonzalez, Travis Kelce, Cronkowski and George Kittle
are the other guys that stand out to me. I
think right now, George looks he looks like an unstoppable force.

(50:09):
I mean physically, He's even said he's in the best
shape of his life. Be after the catch that you
get like part of Travis's after the catch was he
was like an NBA player. He was so fast, he
was so elusive, you know, Gronk and George like, buckle up, buddy,
because we are lower on our shoulder now. Gronk it

(50:30):
felt like he used to get up ended so often
and would get injured a lot. Remember, by the end
he had like a Barry Bonds brace on his elbow.
It just depends kind of the offense you want to run,
and like Travis Kelce is more suited for Andy Reid
and George Kittle's more suited for Kyle Shanahan. Right, pass
happy offense, run heavy offense. Is Michigan the most corrupt

(50:53):
athletic department of college sports? Well, I think we would
all agree with this. Sharon or made his bed, I
mean literally, Actually it wasn't his bed. It looked like
probably his office desk, because when you're sleeping with the assistant, like,
where do you think it's going down? Right? It ain't motels?
Maybe on the road, but during the week, these guys

(51:14):
work a lot, and if you're a programming like Michigan,
you ain't playing that many road games, so it's a
lot of action in the office. But if you would
have beaten Ohio State and they were in the playoffs,
do you think Sir On Moore would h be in jail?

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Right?

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Now or whatever the hell that was. Were that thing
that went viral at the end of the week, No,
he would have not been fired. But that's also college athletics.
That's also sports, right, I mean, the name of the
game is to win, and when you don't or when
people think you aren't good enough, they're gonna look for
a reason. And the difference of college in the pros

(51:47):
is like they will start falling, tailing you around and boosters.
The other thing is when you here's where I would
back you up on the corrupt thing, when you're doing
what he was doing with someone in the office. Everyone knows.
I mean, I can't tell you how many people I've
texted over the course of the last week, like, oh yeah,

(52:09):
we were hearing rumors over the last month. These are
just like NFL scouts that go through Michigan four or
five days throughout the fall. People talk. I mean, football
is a lot like a high school. There aren't that
many people. Everyone kind of knows each other. Rumors spread
like wildfire, and listen, Jim Harbaugh is a pro guy,

(52:31):
So anytime you get into business with pro guys, they
don't view the rules. I don't take any of the
rules in college. Seriously, it's like, wait, this guy got
pinched for giving a guy a cheeseburger. I mean that
literally happened to Jim. Gave the guy some food, got
him maneuver right home. Like that's what we were talking about.
We're now like you can give you know, Bryce Underwood
what signed a twenty million dollar contract? So most corrupt?

(52:56):
Probably not. They're just no different. They're all the same.
They are all the same. If you're winning, we will
look by everything. The moment we don't win, we're gonna
have problems, or the moment people that control the money
which leads us to winning start going. We don't want
this guy to coach. We have to pivot. But if

(53:16):
you think he was getting fired if he beats Ohio State,
I just I would just adamantly disagree. I don't give
a shit what they say. No one believes that if
you would have won the game and they were playing
this week against you know who they have played, maybe
they would have played Oklahoma, Michigan, Oklahoma. He's coaching the

(53:36):
game looking ahead to the draft, which teams will be
looking to draft for Nando Mendozo. I go for the Browns,

(53:56):
and I'm really hoping we build a team around Sanders.
Just don't see that happening with the jackass Stefanski. What
would you do if you were the Browns if Jimmy
HASLM did picture door over Stefanski? Is there a world
where he would hire Dion to be the head coach?
Sign me up for that. I mean, sign me up

(54:17):
for that. If he hired Dion Sanders, that would be
I mean, as a someone that talks about football for
a living, I'm in now. Can you fire Stefanski? A
guy that's a two time Coach of the Year for
Dion who I would say this year was an absolute
debacle at Colorado? Uh, probably not so I'd be But

(54:39):
you never put anything past Jimmy. If the Browns have
the number one overall pick, which weird things happen these
last couple of weeks. Now granted they let's look at
the draft order right now. I think it's the Giants, right.
The good thing if you're the brown if you're a
team that is thinking about doing a cour you know,

(55:00):
drafting a quarterback, the Giants and the Titans are one
and two. Well, the Giants are not taking a quarterback
and the Titans given that they just hired the dude
from the Chiefs Borganzi and then he drafted cam Ward.
You would think, no matter what, even if they go
we like Fernando Mendoza coming out of college better than
cam Ward, which I would imagine most people in the
NFL do a little cleaner of a prospect in terms

(55:23):
of his play. I mean, cam does make some nice plays,
but sometimes, like what is going on? Hard to pin
it at all? If any on him. I mean, the
organization is a disaster, but I would say cam Ward's
on scholarship next year, like he's getting next year no
matter what. So then you got the Raiders who would
definitely draft him. You got the Cardinals, I would say
they would definitely draft them, and you got the Browns

(55:44):
and you got the Jets. So depending on how this
shakes out, Like if one of those teams not named
the Browns get the number one pick, you don't even
have to worry about it. Now, if it's the Giants
and the Titans in some order one or two. Would
the brown that have the Jags pick because of the
Travis Hunter trade, would they trade up to get Fernando

(56:08):
Mendoza or would their owner be like Hey, just give
Shador a season, and not even necessarily about Shador, but
let's just keep building up this team. This team is
horrendous and maybe trains Miles Garrett and just kind of
restart this whole thing. My guess right now if they
do not get the number one overall pick, because I
think if they get the number one overall pick, they

(56:30):
will one hundred percent drafted quarterback and Shador Sanders probably
be on a different team next year because he's not
gonna be the backup. He's just too famous of a
guy to a rookie quarterback. So my guess right now,
assuming they don't get the number one pick, is that
Shador Sanders the quarterback room is like Shadoor, Dylan Gabriel,

(56:51):
and Deshaun Watson, which sounds crazy, but I mean, there
have been reports he's gonna come back, and part of
it is financial. It's like you can't cut him and
take like a one hundred million dollar dead cap hit.
Might as well just roll it back. I guess if
he's matured or something, so I do think you'll probably
be safe and Chador more than likely will be the

(57:11):
starting quarterback or have an opportunity. I mean it did
not go well on Saturday. He still got some games
left to be in a competition. I mean he even
have a competition. Maybe there's just a competition with him
and Gabriel assuming Stefanski's gone. But even if his fancy's gone,
are a lot of people trying to get this job.
I don't know. I don't even know what to make
of the Browns at this point. I just know their
organization is a complete train wreck. And that's not Shador's fault.

(57:36):
I mean, he came to a place that's some embarrassment.
As a Packer fan. Where do I go from here?
Our season is over? Making the divisional round would be great.
At this point, it feels like I'm about to watch
a lame duck team limp into Cancun. So what should
I do now with the extra time? Any ideas? Injuries suck?

(57:58):
You know, football, This isn't the NBA right where Micah
Parsons would be like losing Luca or something or Steph
you would be You'd have no shot right to do
anything in the playoffs. Football's one game, and I look today,
you're favored against the Bears in Chicago. Now, part of

(58:20):
that might just be history. But part of it is
like your defense is still really good. You know, we'll
see the news over the course of the week on
Christian Watson. You still got Josh Jacobs, you did, I think,
get a couple offensive linemen injured, But it's not inconceivable
that you could win that game. And then if you
win the game, if you just win like one of
your last two, and maybe the Bears like lose of
the Niners, all of a sudden, you win the division.

(58:42):
So I think you gotta be careful about just saying
our season's over it now. Are you going to win
the super Bowl without Micah Parsons? Probably not right. I
think we would agree your super Bowl chances got dramatically impacted.
Can you still win the division? Yes? Can you still
make the playoffs and beat a team in the first round.

(59:03):
A couple of years ago, you went into Dallas, no
one thought you would win, and you smoked them. So
I think you gotta be careful about like your season
is over. I said that yesterday, but I meant from
I had to ticket on them going to the super Bowl.
I just think that's pretty unrealistic. Now, could they win
a playoff game one hundred percent the team they're gonna

(59:23):
roll out. We have seen teams way worse historically win
playoff games. That's a fact. So I would just I
would just try to enjoy these little less expectations. You
don't need to, you know, watch these games on the
edge of your seat. But how sweet would it be
to sweep the Bears, especially go into Chicago after I mean,

(59:46):
micah this year has been one of the best players
in the league, So it's it's a devastating blow. But
now there's a lot of pressure on your defensive coordinator,
on your offensive coordinator. And think in football like you
just never know. I mean, coaching plays a huge part. Schemes,
trick plays. Maybe you bust out like a fake punt.

(01:00:07):
With Mahomes out at least half of next year, does
that all but ensure Kelsey retires. Some thought he might
have another year left if he didn't want to end
it this way. But if Mahomes isn't playing, I don't
see him coming back. I think it's impossible to even guess.
If you told me, you know, there were some complications

(01:00:29):
and they played it safe and he just doesn't play
next year, I could see it. If you told me
that he is cleared and ready to go week one.
I can see it. I just think it's a great unknown.
We have no clue how many games they'll miss. I mean,
at one point in time, we thought Joe Burrow most
people thought like, oh, he's not coming back, and he
came back like seven games left, so you know, it

(01:00:50):
came back on Thanksgiving. A lot of people talked originally
when he got injured, Joe Burrow's not gonna be back
to the middle of December. So I think with these injuries,
everyone's body is different. I can't even begin to assume
when he's gonna come back. I also think we're gonna
learn a lot these next couple of weeks with Travis.

(01:01:11):
You know, I think he's very prideful player. I saw
a clip of his podcast with Jason him kind of
losing it in frustration after that play who wasn't against
oh the Texans yet play where he dropped the ball
and they picked that kind of ended the game, you know,
I think, and he said, like, I've never had an

(01:01:31):
issue of like working through situations and just grinding and
working and things always work out for me. And this year,
for whatever reason, it's just not so I mean usually
that's like well father time, as most people say, I mean,
it's a fact, is undefeated. You get older, you're not
quite as crisp. Players around you feel a little faster

(01:01:52):
because you're not quite as fast. But I would say,
sitting here right now, for those of us that just
follow football and follow kind of the directions of stories,
I'd be a little surprised if Travis Kelce does not
retire this offseason. I think if Gardner Minchew starts the
next three games, which all signs point to him doing,

(01:02:15):
how hard are the Chiefs trying? You know, are they
putting guys on ice like as Chris Jones just playing
out the string? Is Travis Kelce? Is there a chance
that he announces his retirement over the next couple of
weeks and kind of gets a sendoff at home, because
that would be something to keep an eye on their schedule.

(01:02:36):
Here is at the Titans versus the Broncos, at the Raiders,
so maybe that Bronco game. It's almost like I announced before,
like I'm going to retire at the end of this year,
so they can kind of, you know, throw him a
party and have a moment for not just one of
the greatest players in franchise history, but one of the
great players in the league history, and obviously one of

(01:02:58):
the most important players on one of the most import
or teams of the Internet era. So let's just keep
an eye over the next seven ish days if something
breaks of, Like you know, Travis has told everyone he
intends to retire, this is gonna be his last home
game in Kansas City, because I think if I'm him
and I had been on the fence, this might push

(01:03:19):
me over, but I would that place. That's an easy
way to kind of like have a pretty cool moment
in a shitty season. Maybe Moms comes out in a wheelchair.
Can we put some dog gone inner Philip rivers respect
on Herbert's name and more so the Chargers as a whole.

(01:03:41):
These have been back to back weeks. They've battled in
ugly games and beat the two teams in the last
year Super Bowl. Herbert is stiff, arming dudes with a
broken hand. The defense is lights out. I'm tired of
the media making us storylines of these games being so
and so lost opposed to the Chargers. Well, here's the thing.

(01:04:02):
The Eagles losing to you with a quarterback with a
broken hand, no offensive line was a pretty big story.
The Chiefs not going to the playoffs for the first
time in eleven years, obviously for the first time with
Mahomes not being in minimum in the AFC Championship game,
let alone the Super Bowl is a massive story. Now.

(01:04:24):
Part of it is like you're the charters. So when
you play teams like the Chiefs or the Eagles and
something crazy happens on their end, they're just a bigger story.
But Jim Harbaugh is Listen, anyone with the brain before
Harbaugh got there knew Herbert was a stud. But anyone
arguing that Herbert was overrated or listen. Obviously he had
a bad playoff moment against the Jacks. No one argued

(01:04:47):
that his coach is also Brandon Staley, who was like
running defenses where guys were wide open. Jim Harbaugh is
one of the best coaches of his era. He's one
of the rare guys if he ends up winning a Super
Bowl in the NFL to do both. I mean, we've
seen guys go to college to the pros and be like, God,
there's a fish out of water. Sabin Steve Spurrier, who

(01:05:09):
are an All time great college coach and save as
a great college coach of all time. And we've seen
the reverse. Urban Meyer didn't even make it through a
year in the NFL. So you know, look at Chip Kelly,
I'd say, a pretty big flame out in the National
Football League over the course of his career. And I
just think that Harball's a legend, man. I saw it
firsthand when I lived in the Bay Area when he

(01:05:31):
was coaching the Niners. He's just he's nuts, but he's
freaking elite. He's I know his brother has a Super
Bowl and he doesn't. I think he's better than his brother.
And I feel pretty confidently about arguing that. Now, if
you want to base on the one game in the
Super Bowl, John beat him, no one can argue that.
But if you gave me just all teams were even,

(01:05:53):
I would take Jim seven days a week over John Harbaugh.
I don't think you can find a Raven fan right
now that wouldn't want Jim Harbaugh to be the coach.
I mean, even look at Greg Groman gets Greg Roman.
They passed all the time. Now, one thing that you
always get with Jim too, despite being a quarterback like John,
is a defensive guy. Right. He was a special team's
defensive guy with Jim Johnson with the Eagles before he

(01:06:14):
got hired with the Ravens. Jim's a quarterback, yet his
teams always run the ball and play defense. I just
think Jim's a superstar. And it got a little weird
there for a minute to Michigan, but by the end
he's winning the Nattie and his record with the Niners
speaks for itself. And beside this, in the internet era

(01:06:35):
starting in two thousand, Kyle's the only other guy that
won there and Stanford, Like we talk a lot about
what happened in Indiana, now what he's done in Indiana
overall he's the number one seed is more impressive than
what Jim did. But when he took over Stanford they
were one and eleven. By the time they left, they
were in a BCS game, And when he handed the

(01:06:56):
program off to David Shaw, one of his assistant coaches,
they were like a top five team for like five
straight years winning Rose Bulls. So Jim Harbaugh, I saw him.
I remember going to a game where I grew up
in Davis, that's right by Sacramento, as a school called
UC Davis and at the time they were Division it

(01:07:17):
was Division two. They weren't even D one Double A.
I think, so they used to play the University of
San Diego. Maybe they were one Double A. I forget
when they exactly moved up, but they played this University
of San Diego. And I remember my dad was home
for Thanksgiving from cal Poly and he's like, you want
to go to a football game on Saturday, Yeah, let's go.
He was a big My dad loved UC Davis. He

(01:07:37):
would have been pretty fired up. They were on ESPN
last week and kind of got worked, actually did get worked.
They could they couldn't stop the run. They had like
almost three hundred yards running on them. But their coach
actually is pretty impressive guy. Former quarterback UC Davis worked
at Boise State and I think at cal Or Oregon.
Like he's got a pretty good resume. He's the guy
to keep an eye on. Tim Plow. I think his

(01:07:58):
name is Jim Harbaugh rolled in with Josh Johnson and
they didn't lose, and I don't think they lost that season,
and then he got immediately hired to Stafford and the
rest history. So I think the story is just Jim
Harbaugh and Jim Harbaugh is a freaking stud To get
this team to the playoffs given the injuries they've had
is pretty it's pretty unreal in your quarterback, I don't

(01:08:21):
think I mean, who doesn't think Justin Herbert is good?
I just don't understand where that contingent was ever created. Like,
do we both watch football? Because if we do, like
you can't really have that argument. You should talk NBA
just top events. I know your specialty is not in

(01:08:43):
quote the arena, but I'd love to hear your views
on the NBA. I was thinking about this because when
I usually take screenshots to kind of corral the dms
that I'm gonna talk about before I do it, so
it does it's easier to do than just scroll through
the Instagram app. I love the NBA growing up. I
mean I grew up right by the Sacramento Kings. I
was probably twenty minutes away from Marco Arena. Grew up

(01:09:06):
in Michael Jordan era. Obviously the two thousand Kobe shack
you name it through you know, Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, Draymond.
I went to a bunch of those games when when
I lived in the area and did radio. I don't
think I've watched an NBA game this year. I mean
I've seen bits and pieces, but like I've never in
my entire life watched less. And part of it is

(01:09:26):
you get older, you do this for a living. I
spend so much time watching football the couple quote unquote
off nights I have, like I just can't watch sports
really on like Tuesday or Wednesday. Right, we're probably doing
other stuff kind of especially I'm having a child now.
I do kind of keep up with the league, like
I'll listen to like Simmons or Winhorse, but I just

(01:09:47):
don't watch it anymore. I mean I was thinking about
this during the baseball season and the World Series was incredible.
I mean I've been glued the last couple of years
to baseball playoffs. I don't think I watched nine innings
of a baseball game all season long total. And I
grew up. I love the San Fransco Giants that they
were by far right there with the forty nine Ers
is my favorite team as a kid. And Barry Bonds,

(01:10:11):
I mean, if you grew up where I grew up,
he was like Jesus with a bat, and we didn't
care that he did steroids. We just wanted him to
bombs and I just don't care. I don't know. It's
like something has left me where part of it is.
I just I can't. I just don't get to watch
it as much. I just found out the NBA Cup
just finished. I didn't even know what was going on. So,

(01:10:35):
I mean, I'll be the first to admit I just
don't watch as much. I watched more college basketball this
year than I have the NBA. Even like the Warriors,
I kind of follow him through like the ESPN dot
com app on my phone. I'll just say, oh, I'll
just kind of watch.

Speaker 2 (01:10:48):
It that way. No, granted, they're they're not very good.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
During the Bill's Patriot game yesterday, we saw the difference
between a battle tested quarterback and won with incredible potential
From the human side. I can only imagine Drake was
up all night thinking about that game. Do you think
young football obsessed players like him latch onto moments like
this as motivation, inspiration and place a chip on their shoulder,

(01:11:27):
especially for future matchups against the same team. Do you
think Drake May has played a more important or meaningful
game in the NFL career than this one up to date,
keep it up. It was by far the biggest game
of his life. Like this guy didn't play at LSU
or didn't play at Ohio State or Michigan. This guy
played at North Carolina. So like North Carolina, North Carolina State,

(01:11:49):
North Carolina Duke like he's never it's the biggest game
of his life. And partly they could have won the division.
When you're young, you're gonna lose. That's part of the NFL.
They were an underdog against the Bills. They have Josh Allen,
who's the reigning MVP, who Drake May aspires to one

(01:12:11):
day be like eighty five ninety as good as if
he is, he'll be a lock Hall of Famer. So
it was tough that there's no one disputing or arguing that.
But like I think, part of it, and this is
why you pay Mike Vrabel so much money, is to
calm everyone down. You know people say this, and you

(01:12:34):
know there's so many people that have played or worked
for Nick Saban that now you know, do podcasts or
work in the media. They all say Nick was awesome.
After losses. After wins is where you gotta keep your
head on a swivel because he is on everyone's ass
after losses. That's where it's like, hey, guys, everything's gonna
be okay. They have two bad drives at the end
of the game, which is partly on Josh McDaniels. Right,

(01:12:57):
you gotta call some runs, settle the kid down spot
for Drake may right, who clearly was just a little
off at the end of the game. The whole offense was,
but they still got by. No means like, this is
part of the NFL too. It's not even just like
you go in the lab chip on your shoulder. It's like, bro,

(01:13:19):
we got a huge game this week. We're playing the
Ravens on what day is that that Sunday night? Yeah,
Sunday Night football. Like that's I can't really dwell on
this motivation. I gotta lock back in whatever we screwed
up at I gotta focus on. But we gotta win

(01:13:40):
this game because all of a sudden we lose. We
got the Ravens, the Jets, and the Dolphins, so we
should win two of the last three. Now I'm recording
this before Monday Night Football, so we'll see how the
Dolphins look. The Bills, who are one game behind them
have the Browns, then they host the Eagles, and they
get the Jets. So I mean, I I think there's

(01:14:03):
a pretty good chance that the Bills can run the table.
Now the Patriots, if they win this game, I think
most people will think they'll run the table. But if
they lose, like it's it's hard, you know, it's pretty difficult.
All of a sudden, you went from we could have
won the division December fifteenth to now might come down
to week eighteen. We got to win just to hold

(01:14:25):
serve and you know, I don't know what the tiebreaker is,
but to just you know, be the five seed. So
things can change quickly. And you know, speaking of the
Patriot Bills game, it's sometimes when you're playing Josh Allen
right now, unless you have the eighty five Bears defense,
when he gets on a heater, there is no stopping him.

(01:14:46):
He's the best player in the world at playing NFL football.
There's not even I don't even think there's a close
second right now. So that's not on Drake may right
that Josh Allen could not be stopped. But I do
think it it's really important this week for Mike Rabel
and Josh who you know, for a lot of Josh's career,
especially over the last like ten years, right from like

(01:15:09):
two thousand whenever he came back in like twenty eleven,
twelve range, once Bill O'Brien went to Penn State and
up until he left to the Raiders, it was a
lot of Tom Brady, right, and even his one year
that with the rookie year Mac Jones, no one thought
they were going very far. This Patriot team is like,
h this Patriot team could win the Super Bowl, definitely
could win the AFC, could have been the one seat,

(01:15:31):
and now you kind of get brought down to earth.
So Mike Vrabel as a player and as a coach,
ton of experience and Josh same thing. To me, it's
kind of on them to dial in with Drake and
be like everything's gonna be okay. We can't dwell on
those last couple drives that were disaster And if I'm Josh,
I put it on me like those are terrible play calls.

(01:15:52):
I should have called maybe a draw, a quick screen,
something to just make it easy on everyone instead of
having you drop five seven step scramble around like it
was dumb. It was my fault. I'm not coaching Tom Brady. Here,
I'm coaching a second year guy from North Carolina who
up until the last month has just not played in
big games his entire life. So part of when you

(01:16:16):
draft a player like Drake May and you go all
in on a guy high in the draft, you're not
just drafting the talent, right, he's tall, he's got a
big arm, he threws a nice deep ball. You're also
drafting the character. And you hear that word use a lot.
To me, character is like the wiring, how you know,
when it comes to mental toughness, when it comes to drive,

(01:16:37):
when it comes to focus, and once you believe in
that human being, you believe that he can handle stuff
like this because that was a tough loss and it's
easy for him even though it's not his fault to
put it on his shoulders. It was my fault. And
that's why in this sport that is so you know,
predicated on the coaches chess, you know, and using the

(01:17:02):
players like it's coaches are stars for reason because they're
calling the plays. They're the ones putting the players in
positions to make plays. You know, we've seen a lot
of great players play for bad coaches. And look terrible, right,
because schemes and play calls can impact guy's talents. And
I think it's very, very important this week for Vrabel

(01:17:23):
obviously to get his team refocused and specifically Josh, to
not let Drake May kind of unravel a little bit, right,
because it was going so well ended up a blink
of an eye. This league is so competitive and you're playing,
you know, the Bills who've won a shitload of games
over the course of the last five six years, Like
that's not their first rodeo. That was this Patriot team's

(01:17:44):
first rodeo, and it kind of, you know, came to
fruition as the game went on. So I think the
guy that really needs to zone in is honestly less
Drake May and more Josh and take accountability of Like
those are some awful play calls down the stretch.

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
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