3 & Out - TJ Watt signs MASSIVE extension with the Steelers

John Middlekauff gives his instant reaction to the breaking news that Pittsburgh Steelers star T.J. Watt has signed another record-breaking contract, making him the highest-paid non-quarterback in NFL history for the second time in his career. John discusses why T.J. Watt had all the leverage in these negotiations and how this deal reflects the Steelers’ win-now mindset under Mike Tomlin. John explains why Watt is more than just a great player — he’s the heartbeat of the team, the captain, and the face of the franchise in the Post-Roethlisberger era. Plus, John explains how this impacts the pass rusher market, including guys like Micah Parsons.

Finally, John answers your questions in this episode's mailbag segment.

3:41 - TJ Watt signs an extension in Pittsburgh

10:48 - What's next for Micah Parsons

20:42 - Mailbag

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume. What is going on everybody? How are we doing?
Happy Friday? Happy Fugazi Friday. Here was the plan. We

(00:21):
had some moving parts. What I ended up doing is
TJ Watt signed a big contract, so I did a
big reaction to that that we put up on YouTube
right away. So I included that as well as a
mail bag. So today's Friday podcast will basically just be
my reaction to TJ Watt, the Steelers, how it impacts

(00:42):
other guys, how it impacts their franchise this season, and
just a lot of different angles from the Steeler standpoint,
as well as a long mail bag at John Middlecoff.
So not a crazy long pod, but yeah, so that
will be the case today. You guys know the drill.
If you listen on Collins feed, make sure you subscribe
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You'll never miss anything. Did a sabing podcast yesterday you

(01:04):
might have missed it. You gotta subscribe. We got you
on YouTube, we got you on the podcast feed. Never
miss a thing. But let's dive into TJ Watt. Obviously
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tickets low as price is guarantee. Okay, we just had
some breaking news. I was at my desk and I said,
you know what, let's react. TJ. Watt signs as Adam

(01:51):
Schefter put it another record breaking deal for the second
time in his a illustrious career, making a lot of money,
well over one hundred million dollars. He becomes the third
big name pass rusher this offseason Miles Garrett, Max Crosby
and now TJ. Watt. The position is, you know, treated
like quarterback on defense. Once you have a great one,

(02:13):
you pay them, and you pay them a lot of money.
And I've been saying this for a while that the
moment this offseason played out the way it did with
Aaron Rodgers and them trading for DK Metcalf, and it
was clear that the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Mike Tomlin era,
put all their chips in the middle of the in
the table for this kind of operation. You trade Meeka Fitzpatrick,

(02:36):
you sign Darius Slay to go with Jalen Ramsey, you
just change everything as a move to like, we're gonna
do everything we can to win. And I think we
all agree that even if they're better, we've seen the
last couple of years, like what is their ceiling? It's
not to me super Bowl? But can they win a
playoff game? Can they be a lot more competitive down

(02:57):
the stretch and in January? And I think if you
probably polled Tomlin in the group internally, they would say,
we feel a lot better about our team. TJ had
him by the balls. He's the best player on the team,
he's their team captain, he's the heartbeat of the franchise.
Cam Hayward said this sometime over the last week. He
deserves to be a one helmet guy. When you think

(03:19):
the Pittsburgh Steelers post Roethlisberger, you think TJ. Watt. I
think over the last five seasons, no player has more sacks.
When he is you know, healthy and playing well. He
is as good of a player in the NFL. And
he's the type guy like he's the reason as a
GM you want to hit on a draft pick. You

(03:39):
want to get a guy that you extend, that you keep,
and as long as he's playing at a high level,
you continue to pay. And because of the position he
pay plays. You know, he now costs well over one
hundred million dollars as his third contract. But I think
once we saw Miles Garrett and Max Crosby, like you
had two options with TJ. You either give me a number.

(04:00):
It became this, well over one hundred million dollars in guarantees.
And I know we love throwing away around, you know,
forty million dollars a year, that number never really means
that much to me. How much am I getting guaranteed? Right?
You can give me forty million dollars a year if
you guarantee me thirty who cares, right, it's a guarantee,
and it's gonna be a shorter term deal. I'm a
little older, but it's gonna be well over one hundred

(04:20):
million dollars and that's the number. So whether it lands
on one hundred and ten, whether it lands one hundred
and five, Like, we know what the fucking ballpark is,
and you got Aaron Rodgers' forty one years old, you
trade for DK Metcalf, which I'm sorry I didn't quite understand. Now,
I think there are mixed opinions, like I do trust
Tomlin if he wants too short Minka Fitzpatrick and safety

(04:41):
is a position on defense that I think is highly
debated in football circles its importance. Clearly they think he's
he's trending down, he's gonna need a new contract, and
they punt it. Now, you could argue they punted for
Jalen Ramsey that they also got John hu Smith with
Arthur Smith knows, but they go, Now, we got two
press corners. But our most important aspect of this team

(05:02):
is our front. We draft the defensive tackle high. We
already had, you know, another pass rusher to go along TJ.
But TJ's the heartbeat of this thing. TJ. Watt is
the Pittsburgh Steelers. Right, Some franchises like Lamar Joe Burrow,
Patrick Mahomes, they are their franchise like they're they're he
is the poster child. Even adding Aaron Rodgers, it's not
even close. And TJ knew it. And once you passed

(05:24):
the draft, even if you would entertain, like hey, could
we get two ones for this guy, like, once you
pass the draft, you're not gonna do that, especially like
you if you were the Browns, technically you could have
got passed the draft if you had an extended miles
and go, listen, we're gonna suck. Let's trade him for
two ones, two two's and just start over tank this year.
It just completely suck. But the Steelers, they don't play

(05:47):
that game, like they are obsessed with we never lose.
It's like, well did you win, Well, not really, we
we got work down the stretch, but hey, are one
ten games and like that means a lot to them,
which I respect. You know, tanking is such a big
part of sports now. I mean, so many basketball teams
do it, Baseball teams do it. Even in the NFL.

(06:09):
The second half of the season, it's like, eh, let's
just kind of keep losing some games, right to get
a good draft pick. And listen, I understand it. But
the Steelers don't play that game. And I think they
showed their true colors when it came to this contract.
They are pretty loyal when it comes to their defensive guys.
When you think of the ethos and the culture for

(06:31):
my entire life, going back before I was born, the
Steelers are like a successful version of the Bears defense
defense defense, you know, and obviously Roethlisberger changed it for
a little bit, but they have stayed competitive because of
good defensive players post Roethlisberger, and I mean last year there,
I mean, their defense kind of fell apart as well,

(06:52):
but I thought that the quarterback experiment kind of blew
up in their face. And listen, they're doing it again
this year. But I think if you got Mike Tomlin
over a cocktail, he'd say, I think our defense is
going to be a lot better. I feel a lot
more confident improving our cornerback position, even if Jalen is
a player whose arrow is pointing down. We can play

(07:14):
this bump and run style, which we've always loved to play,
with two long corners and let our pass rush dominant.
Because the easiest way to make a decent or average
defensive backfield look good get after the quarterback and in
that conference or that Conference for sure, but in that
division you're playing Lamar, which in a weird ironic way,

(07:35):
the Steelers have actually I think I remember last year.
It's like, for whatever reason, over the last several years,
they've played him the best. And I think part of
that is they're comfortable seeing him. You know, he gets
he plays so many of these teams, especially any one
off scenario like the rotating divisions, you don't see him
very often, so all of a sudden you see him.
The speed, the way he plays, he just destroys everybody
in the regular season. But the Steelers are pretty comfortable

(07:57):
playing and obviously Joe Burrow you got to get after him,
and you weren't. You know, we have seen a guy
like TJ. You know. I guess it was different because
Khalil Mack was it was his first contract, but Aaron
Donald the kind of that those two guys held out
and John Gruten traded Khalil Mack. Now that there were
financial ramifications there, but when you do something like that,

(08:20):
it doesn't help you in the upcoming season. So even
if they could have got a haul for him, if
they weren't comfortable giving him this amount of money, you
would have had to do that before the draft, and
once they didn't, Like, we all knew the the end result.
It was just when's it going to get signed and
what is the exact number going to be? But we
knew the ballpark and this is the probably the least

(08:41):
shocking thing of the offseason. I also think now this
has a kind of a downstream impact on Micah Parsons,
who I just saw headline that are like, I don't
know what the Cowboys are doing, like we're ready to
play ball here, Like these are the numbers, Jerry, you know,
I mean in Micah's number because it's a longer term extension.
He's a younger player. It's much more like Nick Bosa

(09:04):
was a couple of years ago, which I think the
guaranteed money was one hundred and twenty. I bet Michael
wants one hundred and forty million dollars guaranteed. So it's like, Jerry,
are you just gonna wait and ultimately give him the
amount of money which he is going to get? And
I think there are other young pass rushers who still
have a year or two to go before their extension.
Look at these numbers, go you know, if Jalen Carter

(09:25):
keeps playing at a high level, if Will Anderson keeps
playing at a high level, these defensive linemen, I know
Mike Florio thinks this collusion thing is going to end
the NFL. All I'd noticed when I watch you know,
these player contracts is everyone keeps getting more and more money,
and it's never been a better time. Obviously, quarterbacks are
paid like NBA stars. But if you are a really

(09:46):
good defensive lineman, outside linebacker, pass rusher, if you can
get after the quarterback, it pays such a premium, it
really does. And obviously if you can block those guys,
pay the premium. We have so many guys pass rushers, tackles,
why receivers in quarterbacks just making an insane amount of money. Hell,
even these corners now, because if you can cover these guys,

(10:07):
you can make a lot. But uh, TJ. Watt gets
what I guess we kind of knew what was coming.
And here here's the thing. When you bring in the Rogers,
let's call it a circus. I mean it is a
little bit fair or not. You didn't want a scenario
where training camp starts at Latrobe Homa, Arnold Palmer and

(10:31):
have TJ not there doing a holdout being a situation
that's it, that becomes this not just uncomfortable, but it
becomes kind of chaotic and with Rogers missing basically the
entire offseason, Like you want training camp to be very focused,
everyone on the same page, not just a chemistry building moment.
But like I don't. I don't want circus like Jerry's,

(10:53):
Like Michaeh Parsons probably ain't gonna be there, right, I
mean the forty nine Ers always have a hole down
certain teams, like just buckle up. You're gonna have people
just know show right, Trey Hendrickson the Bengals, hell their
second Shamar Stewart. They're gonna have multiple guys just not there.
I don't think the Steelers wanted to deal with that
at all. They didn't want that, they didn't want a scenario.
We're in the middle of training camp. You got TJ.

(11:13):
Watt barging into the Rooney's office again, like Art, let's
get this deal done, Like, let's just get this fucking
deal done in the middle of July. So whenever the
veterans are supposed to report in a week, he's one
of the first guys there because he essentially in a
weird way kind of is our quarterback and we need
him setting the tone. This is how we practice, This

(11:35):
is how we operate. We have some new young guys
that we're gonna be very dependent on. Who do you
usually look up to the best player on the team,
which is him. So if you do have these aspirations
to like kind of break the cycle, which I respect
the Steelers this offseason, we'll see how everything worked. But
that Minka Fitzpatrick move was almost like a wake up

(11:55):
call to everyone in the organization, like there are no
sacred cows here besides TG and Cam Hayward, who've kind
of earned it. But everyone else, your head better be
on a swivel because if we keep getting our ass
kicked down the stretch in the playoffs, we will get
rid of every single person here. This is the NFL.
And we get a lot of credit for being really
loyal to Mike Tomlin. This is not how it works.

(12:15):
Like we were loyal at different times when we were
winning at a really high level. Right, it's easier for
the Chiefs to be loyal. They go to the super
Bowl every year. We get worked in the first round.
This is not okay, and we can't just repeating the
standard is the standard. The standard is a standard because
the new standard is win ten games, get worked in
the first round, and go home. And I think that

(12:36):
Minka thing had to be a pretty big shock to
the locker room, right, and now you bring TJ who
is there to like, hey, guys, now it's time to
everyone get focused and try to break the cycle that
has been these last handful of years for Steeler fans. Again,
their standard is so much higher. Like so when I
say kind of been embarrassing, you know, you have fans

(12:59):
of half the lead, like the Giants would be like
we die for that. Well, yeah, their standards a little higher,
you know. Or the Jags or the Cardinals, like, yeah,
they et you. They're one of the premium brands in
this league who have been winning for fifty plus years
and everything that's been going on, like this is an
opportunity to change it. But the only way they could
change it and maybe have like an eleven win team

(13:20):
that can kind of win a playoff game and who knows,
you just playoffs are weird. It's one game scenario, maybe
win a couple, right, I don't think that's gonna happen.
But clearly they do is with this guy, and the
raid is the rate, right. I mean there's not like
this isn't some desperate individual that you can low bol

(13:40):
This is one of the I mean, he's gonna go
down as one of the better players in franchise history. Now.
A big part of that with the Steelers, like win
a ring. Now, I think it's gonna be difficult, but
you've got no shot to compete for a ring for
the AFC, for the division if you don't have this
guy lighting up for you, not just weak one, but
start a training camp. Like setting the tone. I mean,

(14:03):
that's a huge part of football. This isn't just show
up and roll off the balls or you know in baseball,
we'll figure it out and by middle summer like this football,
like you set the tone for your season, for the year,
for the team's long term toughness, for everything in early August.
Even though training camp is so dramatically different than it

(14:24):
once was, there is still an element to that in
this sport. And having him there and having him participate,
even if you give him some days off because he's
an older player, was vital and they clearly valued that
because they got it done and they avoided any t. J.
Wattson not nowhere to be found. God, I'm fired up.

(14:53):
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Speaker 1 (16:43):
I thought I'd do a little mailback ease on into
the weekend. Call it a little weekend mailback. Not much
going on. Take a deep breath before for another week
until we get to the to the grind of football
on a daily basis. Watching a little British old Open
today looks cold. I mean it's listen. I have a
lot of respect for those across the pond. If it

(17:05):
was that cold and windy and wet all the time,
I would never play golf. We will do a mailbag
though at John Middlecoff. At John Middlecoff is the Instagram
fire and those dms get your questions answered here on
the show. We will start with Miles Texans fan. I'm
curious how we should go about handling the upcoming salary
cap situation with CJ and Will Anderson. They were both

(17:27):
will be due for extensions as we know, and both
are top five picks in the same draft class. I
can't remember a team ever having a situation like this.
Do you try and extend one of them a year
early if they would be willing, even though I'd imagine
they'd both want to wait because the market gets reset
seemingly every off season, or realistically, are we're gonna have
to break the bank for these two? Well? I think

(17:48):
there are a lot of different variables here in relation
to your question. They play premium positions. So if Will Anderson,
who I think is going to be one of the
better players at his position for or obviously health permitting
the next eight to ten years. I mean that's a
long time, but definitely the next five six years. So
he's a no doubt about it. CJ. Big year for him,

(18:12):
right coming off incredible rookie season. Weird offensive season. Offensive
line was bad. Let's face it. They pointed the finger
at Bobby Slowick, who, as I was talking to a
buddy in the NFL, basically tried a copy and paste
version of Shanahan, which he knows the offense, and the
first year it worked pretty well, but as time went on,
people adjusted. He got really exposed. And I think the

(18:33):
Texans think they upgraded an offensive coordinator. They can be
a more balanced operation. The offensive line is a question mark,
but Nico's a stud. They draft the wide receiver really
high from Iowa State. The running game we'll see, I
mean that's I mean a huge part of a quarterback.
It helps the quarterback a lot. I mean, it just does.
They bringing Nick Chubb, does he have anything left? But
I would expect to bounce back a year from CJ.

(18:56):
But bottom line is, if you get a top front
guy defensive tackle, edge rusher, outside linebacker, you know, pass rusher.
He's a double digitsack guy. That's the most important guy
you can get on defense, and they already have his
star corner. And obviously the most important guy you could
have on offense is the quarterback. But I think what
we need to learn about CJ, like, do you feel comfortable,

(19:18):
Like if he has a bounce back year and two
of his three years have been exceptional, it's like, Okay,
he's a top six to seven quarterback in the NFL.
But if he has a year again like last year,
You're like, well, then it's I think you pumped the
brakes right. If Will Anderson keeps doing what he's doing,
he's an auto. Try to extend after year three. To me,
CJ not saying he's going anywhere, but this is this

(19:38):
is a big year for him. The offense, the offensive coordinator.
You know, Demiko made a big move firing Slowik, who
was his buddy. Not that he deserved to keep his job,
but I'm sure it wasn't easy. I think Texans are
gonna be good. I mean, they're gonna have one of
the best defense in the league. I mean, honestly, they
have an opportunity to be right there with teams like
the Ravens, teams like the Bronco. I mean, their defense

(20:02):
is gonna be awesome, so offensively if they answered the
bell I was looking on DraftKings. You can get them
plus one ten to win the division. I would be stunned. Now,
obviously football injuries can happen, but just based on what
we've seen in the last couple of years, they're not
gonna win the division. Like, it's pretty crazy that their

(20:25):
odds aren't like minus one fifty. Kind of love it now.
Last year I got a little bullish on him. I
bet them to get the number one seed. I wouldn't
go that far. And listen, I don't think they can
win the AFC, but I think they can be pretty good.
Was listening to talk about Nick Saban and I had
a random question, which football coach could you see being
a great US president? What traits and qualities would translate

(20:48):
well into that role? Bill is the goat, But would
that mean he could also be the goat president? I
would say Saban and Belichick would have absolutely zero chance
to be presidents. I mean one, I think the being
a good politician that those days are fucking dead. I mean,
look at some of these people all over the country

(21:10):
that are in office. I mean, it's a joke. Now,
maybe it's always been a joke. Maybe the older you get.
You know, if I was forty years old in nineteen
seventy eight or nineteen ninety five, I would have said
the same thing. And maybe it's just different because of
social media. But listen, I'm from a world where we
respect the private sector. The government is kind of a
laughingstock where I come from. Uh So, I just think

(21:30):
these guys would never be used to playing politics like
Buil didn't play politics in New England for twenty five years.
There were no politics for Nick Saban. He did what
he wanted to do. He was a fucking dictator. That's
how most college That's how Kirby is now, That's how
coach k was, That's how John cal Parry is. I mean,
that's how all these basketball and football coaches are. I
do think if you throw back to the nineties, when

(21:53):
you know the Bobby Bowden type guy Steve Spurrier, I
think their personalities were a little more quote unquote political
back in the day, not that they didn't have a
lot of juice, but one politics doesn't pay. I mean,
so many of these politicians that's like their job. They
go in poor and come out rich. Doesn't quite make sense.
But uh, I don't know. I think politics is a

(22:16):
fucking joke. Uh hey, John, another question. I mean, obviously
it's not it impacts our lives, but these people that
get up in arms, it's like, I just I don't
respect these people. I mean I really, I just don't.
And that's why I honestly, I think in the football
community the respect for most politicians is pretty low. It's

(22:38):
it's really low. And I would say that in most
industries now you need them sometimes obviously you gotta do
what you do. But you know, in football, you know,
for political stuff, the league office handles a lot of that,
and sometimes your team president if you're trying to get
a stadium that the coaches, they don't deal with any
of that bullshit. We talk about gms and owners in

(23:03):
the NFL. How does your knowledge? How to your knowledge
does the league look at Mickey Loomis and Gail Benson?
Are they good and well respected or are they a
clown show? What's up? Love the pot New Orleans native
born and rays I feel like a lot of broadcasters
forget about the length of time the Saints dominated and

(23:24):
now we are consistently shit on. I get it, trust me,
since Drew and Breeze have since Drew and Sean have left,
But why is Tyler Shuck and Kellen Moore getting swept
under the rug? Kellen Moore just won the Super Bowl,
great co selling a lot of other NFL films. Analysts
said He's really good. Shuck had the second best film
coming out of the draft. I know the quarterback sucked,

(23:45):
class sucked compared to last year. Also, I hear what
you're saying. I think you know it's funny, like was
the Patriots a well run organization or did like Bill
and Tom know what they were doing right now? Obviously
they got Vabel now maybe they can run. But if
you just gave Robert Kraft some random coach, he's probably

(24:07):
gonna suck. Like the owners a lot of times have
nothing to do with it. I mean they do once
they get the right guy, they support them. But if
you gave Jeffrey Luriy the wrong coach, he will lose. Right,
if you give Robert Kraft the wrong coach, he will

(24:27):
lose I've seen Jed Yorke look smart with Jim Harbaugh
and Kyle Shanahan and look like an idiot with Jim
Tom Sula and Mike Singletary. So I don't care who
you are as an owner, Stan Cronkey, Like the Rams
are well run. Why Sean mcvay's their coach? If they
had hired Joe Judge right, everyone thought the Giants were

(24:48):
one of the model organizations for about a decade with
Tom Kaughlin and Eli Manning. Look what they've been for
the last seven eight nine years. So I think it's
very very coach dependent. And when you had Sean Payton,
he's really good. Looks he goes to the Broncos, They're
immediately good. So like this Mickey Loomis know what he's doing. Yeah,

(25:09):
I mean he's he had a front row seat working
hand in hand with Sean. But like if he doesn't,
if you give him Dennis Allen, he's gonna suck. Is
Kellen Moore a good head coach? I don't know. I
don't know. To me, the Tyler Shuck thing, history would
say that guys like him are not gonna be good players.
I mean, he played in college for seven years. Like

(25:30):
I'm sorry called me old school, archaic way of thinking,
but he was in like the same recruiting class as
brock Purty love the show. Should the Rams and the
Rams fans be worried that they're starting left tackle? They
just paid now his blood clots and the right tackle
got a complete shoulder clean out and was not active

(25:51):
during mini camp last year, we started out without our
starting tackles and went one to three. You know, it's
fun is I think I'm gonna do some like division
previews over the next couple of weeks. And I think
if you just ask most people, the Rams get a

(26:12):
lot of credit, and rightfully so for how good they
looked against the Eagles. Right, they were right there. They
could have easily beat the team that dominated Washington, dominated
the Chiefs. They were playing really well at the last
point of the season, and even the previous year, they
easily could have beat the I think did they play
the Lions? Did they play? No? I forget did they
play the Lions? Yeah they did in the first round, right,

(26:35):
Maybe I'm getting that wrong, but whoever they played, I'm
pretty sure they did two years ago. They've won twenty
games the last two years ten and ten. I think
that sometimes we talk about them in the offseason like
they're the Lions or the Eagles, like they've been rattling
off thirteen fourteen to fifteen wins. They're not the betting
favorite to win the division. So I think the Rams

(26:57):
very top heavy. They're very dependent on like four or
five guys. Now, granted those guys when Stafford's playing, when
Pooka's playing, when Versus and Fisk are playing, they're gonna
be good, but they are not to me some like
Eagles when the Lions are healthy. The Ravens like that
their roster is not quite that. They do have a
lot of young ascending talent, but they are a couple

(27:19):
injuries away. Like you said, from being in that they've
started really slow the last couple of years. Their talent
that they get by a lot with tough. They're tough
on defense. Now the young guys in the front is good.
They're coaching with Sean is elite, and Stafford on individual
games can go toe to toe with anybody. But now

(27:40):
they add Davante offensively, they should be better or just
more dynamic. But Cooper Cupp was actually sneaky, more productive
than you realized last year. So I don't care who
you are. If I if your tackles and listen, we
got It's July seventeenth, so we'll see what happens over
the next They don't play a game for almost two months.

(28:02):
If I take anyone starting two tackles away, I'm again,
I don't know. These guys both might be ready to play.
But in a game, you could be playing a team
that wins three or four games, let alone a playoff team,
you might you can easily lose that game. So offensive
line depth, the amount of good offensive line that has
come into the league over the last decade is diminished

(28:23):
relative to what it used to be. So most teams,
and I wouldn't say the Rams you know, have some
like superior offensive line, though Ryan Windell Forrest State guy
their offensive line coach. I was just dming with his wife, Meredith,
who when I was at Fresno was worked with us
in recruiting. She lives in LA because I was texting her.
She DM me congrats on the baby, and I she

(28:45):
laughed at the picture I reposted to McVeigh. I'm like,
how does he look so good? Is he on botox?
She's like he just he works out and he eats
really healthy, but he looks the same like his picture
year one, year nine. But Ryan Windell, who was top
by Pat Hill in college, went on to play in
the NFL as an undrafted free agent, started in the
Super Bowl for the Patriots, and he learned from Dante

(29:07):
Scarneki is a really good offensive line coach. I mean
really good. He's a guy that probably more people should
talk about I think internally. I mean, Sean knows how
good he has it. Ryan's a really really smart, tough guy.
I mean, ask Tom bra I know you can't ask
Tom Brady. Neither can I don't know the guy. But
if you did ask Tom Brady or Belichick about Ryan Wendell,

(29:28):
the way they would speak about him would be really,
really highly So I think that's offensive line coaching is
pretty important. Like I've seen it forever with the forty
nine ers, I'm like, beside Trent Williams, who are some
of these guys? How are you competing at the highest
level with this group? It's like I think Kyle would
tell you, Chris Forrester is pretty elite as John and

(29:49):
our scheme, it's no different. McVeigh like our scheme. Now.
The difference is Kyle avoids the pass as much as possible.
McVeigh likes to mcveigh's like kind of like a forty
year old in shape, Andy Reid, if you could, if
McVeigh had to pick a game plan ten, you know,
like the NFC Championship five years ago when Kyle and

(30:10):
Jimmy Garoppolo threw it eight times or ten times like
Harbaugh two years ago with JJ McCarthy against Penn State.
I guess harball was suspended, but they didn't throw it
in the second half and JJ, I forget the exact
like eight attempts, five attempts, ten attempts, whatever it was. Harball,
Kyle Shanahan, Mike Shanahan, those guys live like if they

(30:31):
could win a game with throwing like less than five
passes and just run the ball down your throat and
physically embarrass you, they would play like that, where Andy like,
if he could choose, he would be the opposite. He'd
rather score fifty, throw it fifty times, throw like ten,
all go specials at mcveigh's. That which is kind of

(30:53):
weird because McVeigh came up with Gruden and the Shanahans,
which actually are much more old school running the ball.
I thought Gruden maybe just because I had forgotten he
had been out of coaching for a while. On TV,
it's like, Oh, this guy's like a passing game guy,
and then you watch him. Groodon wants to run the ball.
Grooden wants to play old school football. And I just

(31:13):
think that you are who you are, so your personnel
really dictates. Obviously Sean can adapt when needed, but like
we all have things we lean on in whatever we do,
and he leans on the bass. Why he loves Stafford
A question for the pod. You were talking about all
the college quarterbacks other than Manning. I was talking about

(31:34):
the SEC guys. I wasn't talking about them all, but
the SEC guys. What about Riola at Nebraska? His only
started in one year, but he flashed some great stuff.
My buddy is a diehard Nebraska fan, so I watched
him quite a bit. I really think he and Matt
Ruhle are going to put together a great season. Wanted
to hear your opinion. Well, like anybody, I was excited

(31:55):
to watch him play. He I mean, I either are
certain players in college or you know, I don't follow
Like some of you guys, if you're a big college
football fan, you're probably a little more dialed in on
college recruiting. And certain guys like arch Manning, you knew
that name when the kid was fifteen years old. But
for the most part, there are a lot of recruits
you're like, never heard of this guy, right, And Riola

(32:18):
is a guy that I had heard of at like
sixteen years old. Started in Arizona, transferred to Georgia. He
was going to go to Georgia, and then he goes
to Ohio State. Then it's Nebraska. Obviously, Nebraska paid millions
of dollars, and I was excited to watch him play.
Pretty underwhelmed, in fairness to Dylan Riola, his dad, Dominic Royola.

(32:39):
This center for the Lions. Football's hard and being a
true freshman playing quarterback in the Big Ten, a conference
that is really good on defense. I thought he was
not good last year and kind of self destructed at times.
There was just like a instinctive aspect to his game.
Now you bring in day Holgerson, who might not be

(33:02):
the greatest head coach, dynamic offensive mind, you know, I
just think it's gonna be fascinating one thing that I'm
just very interested in moving forward with college. I mentioned
this with Colin. When you give a guy like Riola
whatever he's making cup several million dollars a year. Now,
he grew up rich anyway, but regardless, you give him

(33:25):
millions of dollars. Right, I'll give you an example, Derek Carr.
When Derek Carr got to Fresno State while his brother
wasn't like obviously you know, he wasn't his brother's money
wasn't his. He did show up driving a Hummer, right,
So like the brother, they're family's so close, it's basically

(33:45):
all under the same umbrella. But Derek shows up driving
a hummer. A lot of other guys driving hoop ties
and shit at Fresno State. But Derek gets the same
scholarship and the same lifestyle as everyone else on campus,
has college roommates when he gets to Fresno State, like
anyone else, No different than Matt Lioner would have, or
Cam Newton or whoever right forever in college football. Now,

(34:07):
when I pay a guy like Riola all this money,
you know, I talk to people, they say a lot
of these quarterbacks live in a huge house kind of
by themselves that they're not necessarily living with their teammates,
so you're kind of out of touch. There has to
be a little resentment. If I'm like a third year guy,
I will say, I'm like a guard or a defensive tackle,
and I'm a guy in Nebraska. I'm one of the

(34:27):
best players. I'm making some nil, but I'm gonna be
one day, probably like a second, third, fourth round pick.
I'm an NFL player one day I'm one of our
best players, just a high level guy. Wouldn't I resent
that a little bit? I have no problem if you
come in you're making a lot of money and you're good,
but like, I'm busting my ass and I'm watching you
making all this money and you suck. I just think

(34:51):
that these things get weird. I think there's a lot
of pressure on Riola being good. If he's not, like
you could argue that program could kind of crumble. They
went all in on the guy, and they treated him
like he's like Luca or something. It's like, well, that's
fine as long as he's a good player. Listen, we
can debate quinn Ewers all we want. You have you

(35:11):
have put quinn Ewers on a good team. He's good
enough to win you a bunch of games. Carson Back,
same thing. Again. We can nitpick these guys all we want. Like,
I've seen Carson Back on a really good team win
a lot of games. I watched for you, a whole
of fucking you know, melt like a like putting an
ice cube in you know, in Arizona summer day. And
I don't know, there's no disputing his physical characteristics. But

(35:34):
one thing we've seen now time and time again college
football definitely the NFL is like just having a huge
arm or being able to run, like you gotta be
able to play quarterback. And maybe the hype, maybe the offense.
I don't know, but I was. I was down on
the experience. Now, like I said, new Dana came in

(35:55):
at the end and took over. But get an off
season with him. Uh, excited to watch just the whole
thing kind of come together or not. I mean, it's
going to be a rule. Riola are going to be
a big college football story this year. I have a

(36:22):
question regarding Lamar, Jalen and Josh and all the quarterbacks
that run, why is it when a quarterback throws for
thirty five hundred yards and rushes for five hundred. We
treat the guy like a scrub, but the four thousand
yard passers some barely have over two hundred yards on
the ground. Why is it that, after the likes of
Cam Newton Michael Vick, is in to discuss total yards

(36:46):
to make it fair for everyone who isn't just passing. Also,
please explain the Josh over Lamar MVP. Lamar had the
first team All Pro but lost the MVP to the
second team All Pro Josh Allen won more or win?
That important? If Lamar had almost seven hundred more yards. Yeah,
I mean, I just think people were gonna be hard

(37:08):
pressed with a guy who had crumbled before like a
cookie in the playoffs giving his third MVP. I think
that played a huge factor. They're just like, we're gonna
make this guy a third MVP, and we've watched him
in the playoffs crumble like a cookie. Now last year
was his best showing in the playoffs, that second half
against the Bills. But I think people and I would

(37:31):
have had a hard time, like Google some of the
three time MVPs, right, the Brady's, the Mannings, the Farves,
like it would have been not saying that he doesn't
deserve another MVP sometime in his career. And I understand
it's a regular season award, but let's face it, there
are a lot of different variables there. Listen, you could
argue a lot of different things, like why do I
get an if I throw ten interceptions on the season

(37:54):
if four of them bounce off my wide receiver's hands,
how is that my fault? Now? I think you could counter, well,
it's like, what about the five that were dropped by dbs?
Right now? In this one, it's very black and white.
It's like, well, I ran, I threw for thirty eight
hundred yards and I ran for another seven hundred, Yet
some guy throws for forty five hundred and doesn't run
at all. It's the Jalen thing because I'd be like, well,

(38:17):
Jalen only threw eighteen touchdowns, right, It's like, well, yeah,
he runs for fourteen, so it's like he accounted for
well over thirty. These are questions that are just never
gonna get answered. How does guaranteed money, signing bonuses incentives
per year affect the salary cap? Does the cap limit
include incentives and bonuses? Do teams often have leftover or

(38:41):
unspent money on the cap at the end of the year,
do unfulfilled player incentives. How does that all work? The
bonus stuff, I think carries over to the next year,
because obviously, if you have a million dollars worth a
cap space and have to pay out ten million dollars
worth the bonuses, it'd be impossible and it's a hard cap,

(39:01):
so it carries over to the following year. Guaranteed money, obviously,
by definition, is the money you know you have to
pay a guy. But you can manipulate the salary cap
by putting if I give you, let's use trace myth.
I give Tray Smith seventy million dollars guaranteed. Well, if
I give him a four year contract, right, and that's

(39:24):
either an extension, so it's actually I have him in
a contract for five years, or in his situation he
was on a franchise tag, so it's just it's just
in the next four years. I can give him all
of that money upfront. I give him a signing bonus
a seventy million, and then I can distribute that over
the life of the contract however I want, right, It's

(39:47):
why you see a lot of guys sign contract extensions
and their salary cap number goes down because if I
give you a thirty, a fifty, whatever, a million dollar bonus,
I can then manipulate it and amortize it for you.
Accounting majors the salary cap. But it's why you know,
in these other contracts, specifically basketball, when I give a

(40:07):
guy two hundred million dollars over five years, it's forty
million dollars every year, or maybe thirty eight, thirty nine,
forty forty one, forty two. Right, However, it is football
is never like that. It's it's why you have to
treat the salary cap like a puzzle and use the

(40:28):
guaranteed money to your advantage. Now, the more and more
you want to give out in upfront signing bonuses, the
more and more cap you can create. So the more
an owner is willing to pay cash on individual years,
the more they can load up their team. Right, not
guaranteed to work. No one spent more actual cash in

(40:50):
bonuses than Jimmy Haslam over the last four years. But
I think like second and third, we're like the Eagles
and the forty nine ers who have won a lot,
they have spent a lot of money over the last
several years up front, giving out bonuses and manipulating the
salary cap. And there are a lot of teams that
are somewhere in the middle. They're like, yeah, we'll kind
of do it and kind of not do it. I

(41:11):
would say this, like, I think it's easy to go, Well,
why wouldn't you just you have so much money. I
think some people try it and then at backfires, you're like,
what am I doing this for? And football more than
basketball or baseball, Like if I do sign Aaron Judge
or Paul Schemes or whoever in baseball, unless they get injured,
I know they're gonna be good. Right in basketball, if

(41:33):
I get jokicch or whoever is guaranteed. In football, it's
like some guys fall off a cliff, some guys get
an injury, or never the same. They're just feels like
there are a lot more variables because of the physicality
of the sport and the coaching scheme turnover that they're
just they're more variables than any other sport. And I
think teams get hesitant to try to manipulate it with

(41:56):
money because if backfire sometimes then it feels like you
wasted it. Once you get burned, right if you're like, God,
I spent Let's just say I'm an owner, and I'm like,
you know, typically I would have given X in bonuses,
and this year I gave seventy five million dollars more
because we got aggressive, and then all of a sudden
we win six games. I'm like, what a waste of

(42:17):
fucking money, and then my franchise getting shit on that
whole time too. As a season approaches, what defines a
great NFL season? Is the league better served by dominant
teams and many mediocre ones, or by upsets and parody
which traditional powerhouse is struggling. I'm a lifelong football fan

(42:38):
hoping to see the likes of the Lions, Bills, and
Bears succeed. As just a sports fan, I think it's
very very well defined in most lanes what works right,
Even if we want to go to individual sports. I
talk about all I'm not even a UFC guy. When
are they at their best when they have an absolute

(42:58):
rock star superstar boxing? Same thing, Give me Mike Tyson
over ten good boxers. Basketball one not even debatable. The
best teams in the biggest markets are when the league
is thriving the most same thing with baseball. World Series
smoked the NBA Finals, not by accident. It was the
Yankees versus the Dodgers. Football is the one sport that

(43:22):
it truly doesn't matter. I mean it really doesn't whether
it's Lions versus the Chiefs, or you know, the Giants
versus the Steelers at Pittsburgh a smaller market, the Cowboys
versus the Jets. There's no obviously that would never happen.
But my point is the markets truly don't matter in football.

(43:45):
And because of the nature of the sport. You know,
I think this number has changed a little bit, but
at one point in time, it was like eighty eighty
five percent of games are one score going into the
fourth quarter. A lot of football games in the NFL
College is different, are just by nature close. So I

(44:06):
don't think there is to get a good season, you
need close, exciting games. But I don't think we're in
this sport as determined by colleges. Right. College is like Indiana,
that's not going to work on a yearly basis. Right,
you need the Ohio States, you need the Michigan's, you

(44:26):
need the Georgia's, the LSUS, the Florida's, the Ohio States.
I already said that twice, but that's how I mean.
Ohio State's the biggest brand in the Texas sc Oregon.
Like it's important, you know, in the NFL, if like
the Chiefs, let's just say they had a season from
hell and went six and eleven. Like the Niners, they
just lost all these close games. It was the opposite
of last year. Blew them all, had some injuries. It

(44:49):
was a disaster, which big picture, it actually wouldn't because
they'd get a high pick and they kind of get
to reset. But let's just use that example, and the Chiefs,
which are the biggest brand in the league, they would
get flexed out of some of their games and they
would just pivot to whoever's playing. Well, okay, the Broncos
are in first place, their games would get flexed into
the better games, right or the Patriots now are a
eleven win team. Their teams, they would get flexed into

(45:11):
the games. You would ride the Bills, you'd ride you
just pivot where you just The Thunder had a remarkable season.
They won like sixty seven games, they won the NBA Championship,
and they just don't move the needle. I mean that
they were historically low rated. In the same with the Pacers,
even though the Pacers have much more history like when
I was a kid. My point is that the football

(45:33):
it doesn't necessarily matter as long as the games are good.
Question for the bag. Longtime Bucks fan and really excited,
what would you say are some of your favorite I
get asked this all the time. Your favorite jerseys? Maybe
a top three? I said this the other day on
the mail bag. I'm not a like. I don't. It's
just one element of the sport, of the conversation around

(45:56):
the sport that I just paid no attention to. I
don't own jerseys. Obviously, there are some jerseys that are
easy to make fun of, like some of the color
rush on Amazon Prime Thursday Night Football. Like I'd rather
just have you play the traditional jersey. But I've never
been like the Raiders and the Steelers are so much
obviously the Jags can feel a little you know, franchises

(46:19):
like that. But I'm more of a traditional guy like
I just like stuff that I grew up on. In
terms of the jersey. It's why I have a lot
of respect for Penn State, Alabama USC. I just and
I got no problem with Oregon. But jerseys are just
not something I spend any time thinking about. Truly, How
would the Niners or Commanders operate at all without Jennings

(46:41):
or McLaurin next season. Don't they have to pay these guys,
they don't have a choice. Well, Terry McLaurin accounted for
thirteen touchdowns. Thirteen touchdowns, so if he disappears, where are
you making that up fro him? I'm not saying he's
going to disappear, but that's pretty important. Juwan Jennings accounted
for twenty seven catches in a season where they lost Auk.

(47:03):
They had a lot of wide receiver issues, and their
offense was actually pretty good. They just were bad in
the red zone. But he was extremely productive for him. Yeah,
I mean, I both guys have leverage. The forty nine ers,
you know, I people think they're gonna suck. I just
look at their schedule. I think it would be. I mean,
they're the betting favorite for a reason, but he is

(47:23):
their top wide receiver at least going in early in
the season until Ricky Piersall. Now, I would say the
difference Terry mclaurin's a true one, right or true one?
I mean Obviously he's not as good as some of
the true ones, but he's a guy that if your
team's good, you can rely on him to ride him right.
And obviously the quarterback in him have an excellent rapport

(47:47):
and he's their top option, even trading for Deebo. He's
a better player than Deebo. The forty nine ers, you
would say, is like, well, George Kittle's better than Juwan Jennings,
and if McCaffrey's healthy, he is as well. So I
guess it'd be easier for the forty nine ers to
get by for a minute, but I think both guys
would be a problem. Okay, we'll end on this college

(48:09):
football head coaching USGA JIN rankings. This means the handicap
for the different college coaches. The best handicap Trey Lamb
is a plus one to three at Tulsa. Dilfer is
a point seven. Now, in fairness, Dilfer was a scratch

(48:31):
before he got into coaching. Most of these guys are coaches.
I would say, in a perfect world, if you told me,
what would you like your college football coach? If you're
at a Power five program, his handicap tod be you
would like him to be decent because recruiting boosters is important,
Recruiting people money around the program is important. So he's

(48:51):
got to be able to play golf. To me, somewhere
between like a ten and fifteen. I would say, if
you're a single digit, might be playing little too much.
Of all the guys at the top program like Hugh
Freeze seven, Lincoln Riley nine, like that's I would say
you could even go seven to fifteen. Kirby Smart is
a twelve, Belichick is a twelve, Ryan Day is a twelve.

(49:16):
I would say ten to twelve is my sweet spot.
Like my coach has a little personality, can socialize, get out,
takes it seriously, likes to compete, but also is it
spending in so much time on the driving rains that
he's trying to become a four? Now, A lot of
these guys they play probably a lot in the summer
in the offseason, and they don't play it all in

(49:37):
the fall. But so of all the guys running big programs,
Hugh Freeze has the best. Shane beemers a nine, PJ
Flex and eleven. Dan Mullen he's at UNLV is a twelve,
but he's been he's been in the media for a
little while. I would pay to watch Belichick versus Ryan Day,

(49:57):
or Belichick versus Kirby in just a matchplay scenario. I
think that would if we put that thing on YouTube,
it'd probably do pretty well. Brian Kelly's a fourteen, Whittingham's
a fourteen. Good golf in Utah. I enjoyed that graphic.
So have a good weekend. Talk to everyone later studio.
The volume