All Ball - Eddie Sutton Stories with Former Players Desmond Mason, Adrian Peterson and Brian Montonati - The Herd with Colin Cowherd

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:52):
I'm Doug Galivan. This is All Ball. We kind of
have a unique all Ball this week. We'll drop one
in the coming days as well, focusing on one of
the other Hall of Fame inductees. But my late head
coach Eddie Sutton is going to be inducted this weekend
into the Nasmith from Royal Hall of Fame. So what

(01:14):
I did was I reached out to a couple of
my former teammates who I'm good good friends with, Desmon Mason,
Adrian Peterson and Brian Montinotty, and I wanted them to
join me, and we just kind of talked about stuff
and to get it for you to understand what our
experience was like, for you to understand what playing for
him was like, and why we all believe he belonged

(01:35):
in for a long time, and why we're so happy
that he's getting in posthumously. But he did find out
while he was still alive, and he didn't know that
he was getting in. It was an incredibly special and
poignant moment. I usually I do rant and talk ball
a little bit to open, but I just don't think

(01:58):
the timing of that is great with this particular pod.
So just a little heads up at the back end
of it, I give you a couple of my thoughts
here as we're heading towards the NBA's postseason without further
ado any Sutton, my dad coach with him at Creighton
in the sixties, and I told some of these stories

(02:20):
previously on All Ball, and we have so many episodes
if you want to whatever, want to have fun and
you enjoy these and you've missed. You know, there's a
two part with Scott Brooks, which is like two years ago.
Was kind of unbelievably good, Like how open we talked
about getting called up, cut, traded at different parts in
his life, all the different stuff he's been through. It's amazing.

(02:43):
Jay Billis was incredible. Nick Nurse joined me years ago,
a couple of years ago when he first got the
Toronto job. Like we have you go back through the
anals of it. It's uh, it's it's pretty awesome. But
let me let me give you kind of my set.
When I got to play for Eddie Sutton, he was
just revered in my household, just was and I don't

(03:06):
know what he was like to work for for my dad.
We didn't really talk about that, but it was just
one of those Hey, this guy knows what he's talking about,
so stfu and listen and play ball. And you know,
it's it's one of the things that I don't know

(03:26):
if college coaches have this like they used to have this,
you know, coaches. I believed then and these that that
old Guard. They had gigantic personalities. Bob Knight. Many of
you remember Bob Knight as the TV analyst, but that
was when he was kind of a grumpier old man.

(03:47):
If you knew Bob Knight in his prime. My dad
went to college and played was a My dad was
actually a walk on when he was a star or
actually sixth man on their back to back final four
teams at House State. He just had a gigantic personality,
could be abrasive, shore, could be hilarious, Absolutely a gigantic personality.

(04:10):
Text Winner, who of course led Kansas State to two
final fours, was the architect of the triangle offense, a
hilarious and engaging and warm personality. Lud Olsen of course
passed away big personality not necessarily take over the room
voice like Jim Valvano. These that older Guard, it wasn't

(04:32):
just about ball. A lot of them didn't draw plays
on the whiteboard, but they knew how to motivate people
to want to invest in the program, for donors, to
recruit players, and they'd still recruit you when you're on
their team, like that's the reason you need to be
a great recruiter. In college basketball is not just because

(04:53):
you need to sign players. Need to be a great recruiter,
because you need to recruit fans to believe in what
you're doing. You need to be a great recruiter as
you need to recruit players to get any need to
recruit players who are on your team, to play the
way you wanted to play, in the role in which
you've designed for him, or to wait their turn. All
of that is recruiting, just different types of recruiting. Eddie
Sutton was as good as any edit. So in this pod,

(05:17):
there's some stories in there. It's a little bit jumbled,
but there's some real good gems. I hope you enjoy it.
Without further due Brian Montinotty, who of course is from
Michigan Moskegan, Michigan. Adrian Peterson is from North Little Rock, Arkansas,
an incredible player, third All to lea scorer in the
history of Voclhom State basketball. And Desmond Mason, who of

(05:38):
course was an All American my senior year, played a
decade in the NBA Slam Dunk Champion and he has
his own documentary. We'll do a pod with him here
in the coming weeks because he's an amazing, amazing guy
and a very talented artist, very talented artist. All Right,
without further due, here's the edit Setton discussion. All right,
So let's balcom and he's the head coach of Owasso

(06:01):
High School. He played professionally for I think ten years,
mostly in Italy on a fake passport. We can get
into that story if you want. But but more importantly,
like he's one of the mona and I only one
of my favorite teammates, but one to kind of the
like all time, um perfect like Eddie Sutton stories. He's

(06:24):
Brian Montnatty. He joins a sleep All of Ball podcast.
I mentioned that you're the perfect Eddie Sutton story because
and again you'll have to help me in my recollection.
You were weren't you gonna go to cal State Fullerton?
And then you went to junior college instead and flipped
and went to oaklo and State? Like how what was
the take me through? What actually really happened? So I

(06:46):
signed committed to go to cal State Fullerton and then
um yeah out of high school. So I got I
got out there a month before school started, and uh,
you know when they when they wind you and dine you.
You know when you're when you're going out there for
your visit, they take your Disneyland and all that other stuff,

(07:06):
and everything is cool. But uh, you know I got
out there and um, one of the Hawkins, Bob Hawkins,
and so uh my a youth coach, actually ended up
getting an assistant coaching job out there. That's how that's
how I got out there. Um. And I got out

(07:28):
there and realized it wasn't it wasn't what I thought
it was gonna be, and and and you know, I
obviously uh got a little homesick. So I went back
home for a little bit and then uh actually went
back to Fullerton, um and went to Juico out there
for a year. Um, and then that's how I ended

(07:48):
up at Oklahoma State. So so Brian help me out
with this. Um. Okay, so you you go out there,
can support is not good at the time when you
think going to LA you get there, and how long
are there before you your homesick? Man? I was, I was.
I was probably a little homesick that first month. And

(08:11):
then uh, um, you know, I talked to my family
back home and decided that you know, I was going
to come back home and uh and try something else. Um,
you know, so, I mean it was it was it
was just different, you know, it was it was you know,
and you probably know this. When we go to college,
we want to experience, you know, uh, to play college basketball.

(08:33):
You want to play. Everyone wants to play in a
big time atmosphere. Um, you know, in a big time
arena and have a chance to play in a tournament.
And and unfortunately Cal State Fourton, it just it wasn't
a good fit, good vibe for myself at the time.
So I end up actually leaving h before that first
week of school started, um, and went back home. But

(08:57):
because I was enrolled in school, it was kind of
one of those jeopardy deals where I had rolled in
school and if I would have transferred to another four
year university, I would have had to set out basically
lose two years of eligibility versus going to juw call
route for a year and then I'd have three years
of eligibility. So it's not The transfer rules weren't as

(09:19):
favorable for student athletes back in the day twenty years ago,
twenty five years ago as they are right now. So
I was simbolized by making a mistake. I was penalized
by me making a mistakes signing out of school that
I shouldn't have pably signed at. Um. Okay, so you um,

(09:40):
so you're at Fullerton, you're playing for How did you
How did you decide to play for Fullerton? Though? Like
you're like, I was just homesick and now you go
back to play for Fullerton. God, I knew deater, you know,
I understand for people under to understand like fort In College,
which is right down a road, two miles down the
road from cal State Pullton to Junior College. Jeter Horton

(10:00):
was the coach at the time. Okay, so how do
you know I got? I got? When I got home.
I had opportunities to go play like at Western Michigan
and you know, like MAX schools and things like that,
and um, you know, I was really really really considering it.
But the biggest thing for me was losing the eligibility.
You know, I was academically I qualified out of high school.
I worked extremely hard to to achieve that goal. Um,

(10:23):
and me losing the year of eligibility. Uh, basically two
years of eligibility was was going to be tough. Um.
You know, so the route for me was going to
juco and I talked to Deater a lot about it, um,
you know, and and he assured me that, you know,
this is what we were going to do, the things
that we were going to do, and and and for

(10:44):
me to come out and give it a try. And
I did. And I absolutely loved it, you know, I
mean it was it was a great experience going back
out there and playing for him and um, you know,
and and and getting to experience that kind of juco basketball. Okay,
So when did come into the full point At the
same time they were recruiting you. I think they came
out to recruit you and uh uh Sean, and I

(11:06):
think it was Paul Graham came by the gym and uh,
you know, uh started recruiting me. Basically came in and
watched us work out. And um, I think they had
told me that they were down there was watching you.
I think you were at Orange Coast, but you weren't playing.
But uh, Golden West, Golding West. So they, you know,

(11:29):
they they you know, they they liked me, and you know,
and Sean would you know, uh and and Paul Graham
We're gonna you know, start recruiting me heavy and harder.
Uh so That's basically how it started. It started in
that fall follow my first year of school. What's up
to Adrian Peterson hopping on the All Ball podcast to

(11:49):
get to him in a second. Okay, so when did
you first meet Coach Seton? Uh, it would have been
that fall of my freshman year at juco. Um Sean
came out with coach and he didn't say too much.
He just sit over there, you know, kind of like
he does, and watched the workout. You know, I talked
to him for a little bit after after the workout,

(12:12):
and uh, you know, he told me that, you know,
they would love for me to be a cowboy and
they're trying to get me to come out and visit
and all that stuff. And um, you know he was
he was just one of those guys where when you
talked to him, you felt, you know, he felt pretty good. Um,
you know, he was very genuine. I felt like he
uh over the top nice, I would say, Uh, it's

(12:35):
a different story when you get to play for him.
But you know, just going through the initial phases of recruiting,
the recruiting phase with him, you know, it was you know,
he felt good, you felt comfortable. Um, you know, he
told you what your roles were going to be. Uh,
you know, but he also made you feel really good
about the situation. He and he absolutely loved Oklahoma stake.

(12:58):
So he told you wouldn't play when you first got No,
not at all. That's not what they say to you
at all. Man. I mean, hey, I'm I got kids
now that are getting recruited, and uh tells you what
your rule is gonna be. I'm just trying to think. Yeah,
but you know how that is. You know how that is?
You know how that is. I mean, hell, he told
you that you you're gonna shoot an average twenty probably too.

(13:18):
You didn't you know, he didn't. No, he didn't. No, no, no,
he didn't. He didn't do any of that stuff. He
just don't mean it'd be my team. So you know,
but I'm messing you. So when when you first played
for coach? Right? Like, what was it? Again? My initial

(13:39):
Like I knew coach, but I never I don't know,
I don't didn't necessarily have a concept of what would
be like to play for him. So yeah, I did.
I remember, like my first there's a couple of first
Eddie set stories, right, So my first day I roll
up into campus. So I'm a sophomore, but I played
at Notre Dame. Aren't it Notre Dame? I sat a

(14:01):
junior college. I'm twenty one years old now I'm old
like you and UM And I wrote, And I drove
to Lake Havist Soup and hung out with a buddy
and his family for a day like water ski jets
or whatever. And then I drove straight to Oklahoma and
I remember stopping Oklahoma City. I didn't know how to
get the stillwater because I've only been there at night
as my on my visit. My flight got delayed, right,

(14:24):
and anyway, I stopped. I called Mary Lee on the
one eight hundred number to find out how to get
the stillwater from UM. From Oklahoma City, I was on
forty four. You didn't have a map. No, well, that's
your fault, damn man. I mean, dang, Doug, you gotta
have a map. Son. Well, it was just it was

(14:45):
like one of those like, hey, you take it was
really simple. You take I forty to thirty five and
then you get off on the stillwater. So how hard
is it? How hard is it to get the stillwater?
Stillwater is the easiest place in America to get to man,
get your man. But but I cut through on forty four,
and so I didn't. I was like a little bit lost.

(15:05):
And I also thought again because I hadn't been to Oklahoma. Um,
because I hadn't been to Oklahoma, I thought that you
know that Northwest Expressway right there, there's the tower and
the mall and all that stuff. Yeah, I thought that
was Oklahoma City. I was like, I remember calling my
mom going like, um, hey, yeah, I'm in Oklahoma City.

(15:27):
She's like, what's it Like. I was like, there's one
building because I thought that was I thought that was
an Oklahoma city. Anyway, Anyway, I rolled up to the
town and I pop up into his office and I
remember the office. I remember the I remember the office
had um it was like the old office in old
Gallagher was like dimly lit, right, and and he was dark. Yeah,

(15:52):
I was like super dark. It was like um. Anyway,
So I I rolled in and I was like what
what should I do? Because there was nothing to do,
Like it was like a Thursday in school didn't start
till Monday. And so he goes into his desk and
he asked me if I like Westerns and he hands

(16:12):
me three vhs of Western movies. He's like, oh, I
just watched these the other day and these are good.
You like Westerns? I was like, yeah, Coach, I like Westerns.
So he gave me three Westerns and then he told
me to go watch the high school football game on
Friday night. Like that was my first when I first
rolled in town. Let's welcome in Adrian Peterson, who we

(16:34):
can go into his story. You're when when did you
first meet Coach Sutton. The first time I met coach
was back I probably was fifteen or sixteen. You would
come to our au practices in Little Rock, and um,
he talked to he came in and we kind of
he just introduced himself to the team. So he would
come in each summer and sitting stands and watch. So
I I met him back, you know when I was

(16:55):
maybe a sophomore, firstman to sophomore maybe in high school.
What do you think I mean? I was intimidate. Everybody
was intimidated by that guy because he coached, you know,
the coach of Razorbacks, so we were all familiar with
him and his teams and stuff and being Razorback fans.
But it was just a little intimidating. He had a
legendary coach, and I watched you play and you know,

(17:16):
we were still learning how to play the game, so
it was a little intimidating, but you didn't hear the
stories about him. But after he got a chance to norm,
he was okay, Um, why did you so? What made
you choose Oploma State? Man? I tried not to go
to Oklama State. Actually, I um, I think I committed

(17:36):
to Tennessee and I called coach Sutton during practice. I
left my voicemail told him I wasn't coming, and then
the next day Sean was at my high school. So, um,
I really picked it just because it was close to home.
My parents were big fans of coach Sutton's and it

(17:56):
kind of fit, you know, fit my game. Um, just
the system they ran, and just being familiar with some
of the guards he's had in the pass. I just
thought it'd be a good fit for me. So ultimately
our trolls to go there. Fox Sports Radio has the
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Tennessee was who was that? Was that? Kevin m Kevin O'Neill. Yeah,
that was Carvin O'Neil. It was a terrible situation. I

(20:29):
just caught up in a recruiting visit, That's about it. Yeah, No,
they they were because they were recruiting me. I guess
it was a couple of years later, right, But they
used to day used to just it was a Laurence
Frank you like carpet bomb you with stuff every day.
Every day you would go out to be letters and
stuff from them. It was crazy, It was it was
a crazy recruiting They were hard and heavy. But I

(20:52):
just that was my first time, really my first recruiting trip,
and I got caught up in just all all that hoopla,
and it was a bad situation. Wasn't a good fit
for me. But um so I'm glad I didn't make
that choice for sure. So they so you met a
beautiful girls, what you would you telling us? That's no,
I did not. It was actually a terrible experience. So
all the way around. So why did you commit there?

(21:15):
You're like, I didn't need a girl. It was a
bad situation, but I committed there. Well it was, um,
it was opportunity for playing time right away. Yes, the
team wasn't that strong and they had they were terrible. Yeah,
and when job right? Yeah, and they were I remember
because they were recruiting me, and they were like Lawrence

(21:37):
Frank was like, watch just we played Kentucky to night.
We're gonna be awesome, right, and they had like fourteen points.
We're gonna play fast. They had like fourteen points. They're
holding the ball back. I was like, oh, thank you, Yeah,
that was amazing, just playing time man. And plus the
older guys, weren't they good and they wanted to get
rid of a lot of those guys. I was like,
when I can start as a freshman, good situation. And yeah.

(21:58):
So you so you show in still Water and this
is nineteen ninety five, you're right off the final four.
In the final four, Hey, who's on your squad? So

(22:18):
I can remember who Chante was still there? Jason, Jason
scare Um, Maurice Robinson, Jerome Lambert, Andrea owens Man. Who else?
Kevin Miles was there? M M remember Chad Alexander? Not

(22:42):
a lot. So you get there, you get there. What
what was your what's your first what's your first memory
of Eddie seven? First memory of coach? Uh? He came in,
he was I was like, man, this still was pretty
rough because we were he lost a lot of talent
the final four year and then it's kind of stuck

(23:02):
with us in Keante, So it was pretty rough. I
didn't enjoy my first couple of months. Man, it was
a whole lot of you know, he was just went
happy with his team. I don't know what happened. I
was only recruit that actually came in I think. So
it was just it was a bad couple of months
because he was definitely wasn't happy with our work ethic
or anything. Wasn't Jays scart in You're a green glass? Nope? No.

(23:27):
The only person was in my recruiting class. I was
one other guy forgot his name. He decided to try
to go from he went to the league. I was
the only person in my whole class for four years.
How do you point out how it was rough? Because
my first memory of like pick up ball and coach,
you guys remember, So he went and worked in the

(23:48):
Jordan King right it was gone like labor day weekend,
and he comes back and we're playing pick up ball.
And remember they weren't supposed to watch. So he would
come in and he'd go up the stairs and he
walked around the entire arena right watching even though he
wasn't supposed to watch. And then get to the office,

(24:11):
but he'd take the longest possible route, like right, like
he parked in that little coach's parking lot right behind
the door, and his office was right up there. If
he walked up, he walked the right to right, but
instead he walked the left to a complete loop on
the upper level of the the old Gallagher and then
walk into I remember him doing the leap when he

(24:32):
first got back from the Jordan camp and then he
literally stopped the pickup games and tell us how terrible
we were, and about how Michael Jordan told told him
we need to all make I don't know, like one
hundred and fifty shots a day or something like that.
No one pickup games until further notice. Everybody has to
make like one hundred and fifty shots, right, And he

(24:53):
was so mad. Then he cut the walk on. So
he was watching the game and the walks were planned
and they a terrible and so we cut the walk up.
You remember back our first year. I don't think I
don't think we had any walk guns that year because
he cut them all. He might have saved one, right,
And then like the next year we added in Roddey
Shuter and some of those other dudes we had and

(25:16):
Jared Weiber that was our junior ye your senior year.
The first year he that was. I was like, damn,
this dude just not play around at all. He cut
the walk ons, watched like five minutes pick up. Yeah
what about? What what about the rules he put in
place with us playing pickup? You had to pass the
ball five times. Yeah, that's actually one. That's that's one

(25:38):
of the rules I actually used with our with our
varsity team, uh, when they're playing pick up because the
game I get all helped to skeleton and get crazy.
And this is probably a year ago. I told him
you gotta make five passes before you can take a shot.
And they all looked at me like I was crazy,
and they're like my assistant coaches everybody like where'd you
get that from? I'm like, that's an old buddy sudden

(25:59):
trick man. That means everybody's involved. Everybody's running the floor,
everybody's touching the ball, but no one's just coming down
playing what what do you call it? Hero ball? One
on one and the same persons taking all the shots.
So uh, that was another rule that he put in
that was a little, uh, a little eye opening at
the time when you're you're first trying to get to
know him in and learn how to play for him.

(26:22):
I believe my one year he wouldn't allow us to
play full court pick up. We had to play half court.
I don't think y'all were there, no, it was it
was with us. Was that the Jordan thing first shooting
and that was We're like, what the fu? Yeah? And
then and then and then everybody had to be across

(26:43):
half court. If you're playing a full court everybody had
to be across half court. And he took a shot,
and you gotta do trailing or not running the floor.
Basket didn't count never all that. Yeah, And it used
to be a manager. A manager used to be the
one that would have to come down and say, hey,
which once you guys have passed the ball five times
before before you take a shot? Really, and we're like

(27:05):
coaches even around because that was not fun pickup ball,
not at all. Let me let me, let me, let
me hit on this rookuck. I can remember our first practice.
It was two of day practice that Pete. I don't
know if Pete remembers this, but um, it was over
fall break and like you get coach, you know, in

(27:26):
the fall before practice, and you know how he is
and everything else. He can be really tough and hard
at and everything else. But then you get into practice
and you go through that first practice and and you
leave Gallagher and you're going home to take a nap,
and you're like, holy what did I just sign up?
What I get myself into then you come back to
second practice and I can remember, I can remember leaving

(27:48):
Gallagher after that second practice thing, and there's no way
I can play for this man. This this is insane,
this is crazy. Man. It's hard, it's tough, you know,
very demanding. I'm like, I mean, you go through a
practice and you really one thing, like you hear everything
about it. Hold on. I remember the first like week,
he didn't do shit. He just sat there and took notes,

(28:09):
and then Micah and then Michael would sit next to
him and talk is you're all right, and sometimes you
fall asleep, fall asleep. I can't remember. I remember what
I remember what you said. I remember what you said. Practice.
I remember we're in the middle of practice and Dougs
like Dougs like shit, look at coach over extreep and
he's like, We're not gonna be awath of the damn.

(28:31):
He's like, we must not be worth the damn and
coach to Paul asleep and practice. But I was getting
I was getting back to yeah, I was getting back
to the deal with Pete. With Pete after that first
two a day, I remember Pete coming, you know, we
all lived in a minute. I remember Pete coming up
to my room. I don't know Pete remembers this or not,
but I tell this story all the time, and when

(28:51):
people ask me about playing for coach, I'm like, Pete
comes in the room, sits down, he boys a little
six pack, you know, and he comes in the room.
He said, in the room, you know, and and and
we're just having a couple of beers after practice, and
he's like, basically, this is how practice is. This is
the way it's gonna be, you know, and get used
to it because it's not gonna get any easier. You
got one of thinking attested this, so my visit all right,

(29:17):
So this is this, This is like the whole everybody
thinks like you go to somewhere recruiting disit's so stupid.
And so I was supposed to come out on like Tuesday,
and you guys played A and M on a Wednesday,
and you guys play any good and A and M
was worse and so uh, and then I was going
to Oregon. Oregan played Arizona on Thursday, and so I

(29:39):
was supposed to leave like first thing Tuesday morning. It's
been all the day there, watched the game Wednesday night.
You guys. After the game on the Thursday morning, go
to order. So I go down to Orange County Airport
and my flights delayed. It's like seven to eight to nine, Okay,
you don't take off to like three in the afternoon.
I'm like what, so I land still. I land in
Oklahoma City at like ten eleven at night. Sean picks

(30:02):
me up and you know, we talked like the whole
way back, so I didn't even know we're still so dark.
I know I wasn't paying attention anyway, get up the
next morning. It's not a particularly nice day. Uh. Coach
drives me around campus. Right, I'll never get this shit ever,
and he was like show literally showing me everything's like

(30:23):
that stayed Upon. When I was in school, everybody's goal
was to have sex at data Pont. I was like, what, like, yeah,
that was that was the like the it was like
an achievement, you could have sex shit data Upon. I
was like, how like you know the benches or you
playing a blank get or you go at night or
whatever like and kids don't do it now, It's like

(30:46):
and I was like and I wanted to say, like,
oh is that like you and Patsy was that like thing.
But I knew better than that, right, I knew I
knew him better than that. Um. But anyway, they played
and him I remember I was watching like shoot around now,
I was watching warm ups and Mace's doing all these
crazy dunks and I was like, man, why aren't they better?
Like yuys are Like Pete was nice and Mace is nice,

(31:09):
and he just didn't you know, Joe was I but
like they were kind of they don't really have point guard. Anyway,
I think he has won the game. We go back
to Pete's apartment at Fennant. I was like, what we're
gonna do, Pete, Pete? You know, Pete goes and he's
got like a six pack or maybe a case. Hey,
this is what we're gonna do. And that's what we did.

(31:30):
We sat around and told stories, drink beer like the state, Like, huh,
it was Tuesday night, you know too much? I think
it was a Wednesday, wasn't it was? It was what
was before we got to like, uh karaoke Wednesday nights
at Willie's in the spring. So okay, um, but so

(31:51):
I remember him not doing shit right and then uh,
and then all of a sudden, like I also remember
being you can attest to this. You struggle a little
bit to pick up things, right, So he sent you upstairs, right,
you don't come down until you know all the plates.

(32:13):
That was That was Michael Johnson. No, that was the smartest,
dumbest kid he's ever coached in his life. It was
his last practice. Yeah, I was his roommate last practice.
He goes, you're the dumbest smart kid I've ever had. Okay,
so dude, he sent you up there with judge. Yes,

(32:42):
that's the problem. So Paul Graham was fell defense wrong enough,
Scott reports. So he sends you out there to learn
all the plates and then you come down the next
day and you're worse because now it's not that you
don't know. You know everything that peg he told you.
He just told you the wrong shit right judging? No, shit,

(33:05):
he didn't literally like shit shit? What was he called? So, pete?
What was coached like? So your first two years, right,

(33:26):
you guys are not very good? No? What was he like?
What was he like to you? Though? Because you were
still like you were his guy at least that's how
it was to us, like we thought you were. Your
last name was sucking man my friend to Pete, my
freshman year was, you know, no expectations they will come
my final four, so I kind of gotta pass a

(33:47):
year plus some suck so I score a few points.
He didn't really say shit to me. Um, Pete always
tell me hen were getting some help, make sure because
we had Joe and Masons guys coming. So freshman was
really he just talked how bad the other guys were.
He didn't really mess with me a lot. My sophomore
years the worst year ever. That was the worst year

(34:08):
because he rode me. He called my parents, he three
and to send me back home multiple times. Um, he good,
So listen to listen Pocket. We're trying to explain to
people what it was really like. Okay, so give me
the what it was really like in terms of him
threatening to send you home? What's up? What's up? Fellas,

(34:34):
what's upright? So so so? So what was it? Give
me the give me the give me the story behind
the um he said threatened to send you home because
he tried to send I think all of us home. Yeah,
he told me, you know, multiple times he called all
of our parents. He didn't even call your girlfriend. He

(34:56):
not called my girlfriend. But he did make my girlfriend
a late and hour and a half. I'll tell that
story a second, so go ahead with the detail. The
first time he threatened to send you home, he it
was after practice. I don't know, I was I wasn't
doing very good. I don't know. But he called me
to the office. He had my dad on speaker phone,
and he just said, hey, you need to talk to
your son. He made up all this shit whatever, but

(35:18):
he um he left the room, and so my dad
was pissed. He said, I'm you're embarrassing me all kind
of stuff. So he comes back in and he said, well,
he need to correct this, so I'm gonna send him
on the bus back to Little Rock. And my dad
was like, dude, what the hell did you do? You
don't even get in trouble. How he pissed off, you know.
So he was a big fan of coaches. So after that,

(35:39):
my mom talked to me and he just they were like,
you gotta fix something. I said, I didn't even do anything.
He just mad because we're not very good. He's pissed everybody.
And he then he did it. Two weeks later. He said, hey,
I'm I'm gonna send you home. And he kicked me
out of practice or something. But I mean I got drunk,

(36:00):
I got drug test every time I didn't smoke. I
got drug test every time. Drug test popped up every time.
But I guess they knew who was who the test.
I guess I don't know man, but yeah, but he
did drug test because my attitude one time. So maybe
that was it. I don't know. That's what you told me.
You're like, man, He's like, don't he'll drug test you
in the second. Yeah that was Brian far said, I

(36:24):
was alone's wrong with me? So he drug testing randomly?
So Brian Farr did h B Did he really drug
test us after we lost the duke? Or was that
just because he knew we were out surround? I think
he said it was the NCA. I think that was
the deal. I went to the King, went to Kingfishers.

(36:47):
Yes you know, no, okay, so this story we got Yes,
we got back from we got back from plane duke. Right,
we lost the duke. We were heroes because we should
be dud That was that was it. That was that
was how it worked. So uh, if you remember, that
was like Sunday Monday, So Sunday night me and I

(37:10):
go out. That was when you met your actual wife,
That's when you met Amanda, right, yes, yeah, yes, we
hung out at Kyle Water's house, maybe in somebody else's house,
and we were doing some shit and uh. And so
then the next day we go to Joe's for green
eggs and ham because it's Saint Patrick's Day, and we

(37:33):
drink and mess around all day. All we're there like
ten am, right, everybody's there. We're like heroes. And so
the next morning we get up and both of us
have a message from Brian Farr. We got a drug test,
and we're like, we're gonna put this. We're gonna plunk
this trug test. What do we do? So if you remember,

(37:57):
remember the apartments where Mace you lived your senior year
and where Clint Combs lived, right, yeah, what are those
departments called? I forgetter? Okay, right by the terrace, there's
like a health food something store and they had that

(38:18):
golden sealed teeth and people's like, you drink the golden
sealed tea. So and being drinking tea. I went to
King Fisher. I was out Brian Leeds and I just
I gotta not answer the phone for like two days
because I'm going home to California. I don't know. It

(38:40):
was like spring breaker along weekan or something like that.
We literally just tooduced out and never took the drug test.
That's really what happened, and we stood to this day.
I don't know whether Brian Farr saw Southwest around or
just me legit had a drug test that we didn't
show up again. So we started by everybody telling their

(39:07):
first story when they first met coach that you first
met Coach Sutton. Where it was I first met Coach
Sutton when he came to watch they practice and walks
to Ashey and at the time, my coaches they were
still giving like licks. My high school coaches gave licks.
If you miss a layup, he turned the ball over,
you got a lick. They called them hickies, and so
they will mark them and at the end of every

(39:29):
practice like that was the first order of business and stuff.
I remember Coach Sutton coming to watch they practice and
talking to my coach who was on a small town
West Texas coach who just came into a four A school,
Randy Carlile and h coach. Coach Sutton kept asking what
he's marking down on these boys. Why he keeps stopping
plays And he told him, well, we're doing these things

(39:50):
they called hickies and said it was a hicky and
he said, well, I'll show you after practice. So I practice.
The first thing that they did is lynd everybody up
on the wall and everybody got licks, all turnovers and
uh and miss lay up anything else. You up as
a high school coach right now, would you by the

(40:15):
time you got a home would you be fired? No? Yeah,
you know my crazy man. Nowadays guys will be fired
like crazy. But we had him at a half times
the game. It was the first order business when we
came into the locker room the half time. You guys
had to take care of their hickys, so don't miss
lay up, don't turn them all over. That was my
first That was my first time of coaching. Coaching. Coach
is blown away that my coach was coaching that way

(40:37):
though it was. It was absolutely blown away. So that's
where you got to name hickies. Do you remember he
used to call when we make turnovers we got, Yeah,
it was called it was called hickies. We wrote him
down on the board and it was called the Hicky. Yeah,
really would you reach that? Shit is crazy? Okay, did

(41:00):
you like him my coach sector? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I know.
I you know once, I didn't knew nothing about him
the first time I even knew anything about Oklahoma State
University when they were recruiting me. But I watched the
final four and I just kept marrying this got big countries.
So it was just and Randy. So it's fun to
watch him. Obviously they went to Seattle and then he

(41:22):
had Scott Toothless in Seattle. So I don't know, I
just as a small town Texas kid, I started watching
that that team and just kind of fell in love
with the team. So I started doing a little bit
more research on who Coach Sun was, and he was
just kind of a hard nosed coach, like like my
coach minus to the paddles. But I loved him when
I first met him, and even through the recruiting process,

(41:44):
he shot me straight. He never promised me anything. Obviously
I came in behind you know, Keante and Pete and
those guys. Marlond I was, I was part of that group.
But Coach just he was no promising anything. He's like,
I had to work for whatever I got so I
was down with that. Um. I mean I loved him
as a coach. Even when I first met him. I

(42:05):
had no issues with coach Suddon. He was just thing
like a country guy. All right. So you show up
in school pizza sophomore. They weren't very good, right you guys?
You Joe Stell, who else is in that wherever? Oh? Wherever? Scott, Scott, Robish, yeah, yeah,

(42:29):
Brett Dad and Tommy Yeah? Okay, So uh what was what?
What's your? What was your? Because my first memory was
showing up walking up through his office was like dimly
lit and he gave me some Westerns to watch. We
were talking about pickup all when he made his play
half court for past five times? Yeah, I remember. What

(42:50):
do you remember about first like your first practices, the
first times you're you're you're you're playing for the student. Um,
I would say, my my first time coach made it
very clear that I had done nothing even in the
in the in the bash, I broke that backboard and
doing by Eddie such bash And then we had our practice,

(43:11):
um I think was the next day, and you know,
I was just playing hard and me and Keyante just
kind of got a little physical, but it was just
you know, playing hard and coached our practice and immediately
told me that I was nothing. Breaking the backboard means nothing.
Keyante's been there and done it, and he said, Paul,
I want you to take care of him. And Paul

(43:32):
Graham became here. He tried to make me his whipping boy.
But Coach made sure every chance he got to let
me know that Keyante was better and that I was
the nobody. And the same thing with Jason. Scared. He
would put me on Jason, and Jason would try to
get physical and but Coach always stopped. He wouldn't let
me get physical back. So he was very adament about

(43:56):
me knowing that that, you know, I was gonna be
behind those guys, and that was just the way it
was gonna be. He Jason scary snowball story. You guys played,
oh ye the day before? Uh yeah, the day before.
I think I was walking, me and Jason walking somewhere
because I never really walked with the guy. But man,

(44:18):
we just started getting here with snowballs. Man ain't throwing
snowballs at us until he sucked, and I was like,
god D, what's going on? Man? You know? So that
was my last time I walked with Jason. I didn't
realize everybody, you know, didn't really like the guy. I guess,
but uh it was. It was bad for about five minutes.
I got out of here. Man, I'm pete. I don't

(44:40):
know if I don't know if he remember that. I
don't know if he'ple remember this story, especially it contains
of Jason um coach put putting me on him one
day in practice and the ball was going out of bounds.
So we're, you know, dad to the scores tables up.
So We're chasing the ball out of bounds and I'm
hustling and I go to reach for the ball and
throw it back in and he pushes me over the

(45:00):
score table. I grabbed the jersey and I pulled him
with I mean, we kind of get tangled up. So
I pulled him over with me, and we immediately get
into it and Coach Sutton stops it. And I think
it wasn't long after that may have been a few
days because he lived with hard deal more. I think
at the time that wrestling and it wasn't long after that.
In the middle of the night or Jason told nobody anything,

(45:21):
he got stuff, got left all this stuff in his
locker and left town. Yeah, I remember that he lived
with hard everything. No, no, he yeah, he lived with
Hard Deal. Oh yeah, he lived with Hard Deal. With
the year he left, he lived with Hard Deal. Hard
There was the one that told me he lived town. Well,
he told everybody he left town. But Jason's dad called

(45:42):
coach Sutton and said that he wouldn't be coming back
to school at Oklahoma State. I think he went transferred
to Rights. If I'm not mistaken, he's a strange cat man.
I thought you told me and I again, maybe I
got my stories us that the night he left, you
had told him to meet you at the gym, like
you guys should shoot at the gym late at night,

(46:05):
and like he know, showed you're like all right, and
then you like literally had left town. Oh I don't remember,
because I heard about the next morning. So I didn't
have any players to meet Jason anywhere to night. I
promise you that I don't. I don't know. Maybe we
got the story twisted, but no, I don't. I heard
about it like everybody else. Man, Okay, so um, so

(46:28):
make me. I was asking Pete about his second year,
your first year. What was that like when you guys
were bad? Man, it was for me, it was it was.
It was a huge transition, man, I just I was,
these guys are bigger. I mean I played center half
the time when I was in high school. You know,
I was able to shoot a little bit out on

(46:49):
the perimeter, but I mean I played mostly center center.
I was the second tallest out my team. So when
I got in, I mean, he got all these big guys.
I mean even my class coming in still was unbelievably
talented that I mean just athletic, and heck Joe could
really shoot the ball. Webber and and Robish two big guys.
I mean I had't even played against guys that big,

(47:09):
you know, when I was in high school. And then
you had Pete. And the one thing I always tell
people about Pete is, you know, if he put the
ball on the floor one or two times and pull up,
I mean like his release was much higher than most
people can jump from a defensive recovery standpoint. He jumped
so high off the ground, and he can really shoot
the ball, especially from the midrange. You know, I'm chasing
keante at about the elbow. Coach. They would give it

(47:30):
to him at the elbow, and he just started going
to work at the elbow. It was just a hard transition,
you know for me, and I really stuck with a
lot of the guys. I came in from a class
standpoint where it because I just, I mean, we none
of us knew each other that well, but you know
I knew them through the recruiting process. But it was tough, man.
It was. You know, I heard you guys talking about
the practices, you know, coach was it wasn't easy. But

(47:53):
for me, from a transition standpoint, it was it wasn't easy.
It was it was a pretty hard transition. When did
it change for you? For me, it was a little different,
only that because I had played my dad, I coached
with him. Like I felt like my first half of
my first year it was cool, Like nobody said shit

(48:15):
to me, and all of a sudden, like semester when
they know you're staying then all then they like they
flipped and you can't do anything right, Like literally, you
can't do anything right, Like man took a shirt in
the lockers, a mess. We went into your we went
into your apartment. It's amss right, your great son, you
get back on defense, LUI ch attitude right here, You're like,

(48:37):
what like five minutes ago, you guys didn't say shit,
and now all of a sudden you're UMBI uh Mace,
When did it change? For what? Didn't? Because when we
when I started playing with you, I remember he would
he never went, at least in public full frontal on you.
When did how did he get onto you? When did
it change for you? Man? For me? He always did

(48:58):
it to my dad. Yeah, he always he used my
dad because he knew that, you know, he called my
dad and my dad was the guy that was getting
the car and drive four hours and being stillwaughtered. He
did many times. And then what he thought is because
my dad and Paul Graham had a fairly good relationship,
you know. And um, you guys, I'm sure you remember
me and Paul Graham had you know, many battles in practice,

(49:20):
you know where I really got in his face. I
just didn't I liked him, but I didn't like him.
But he used Paul Graham. Um also, as you know,
another asset for him to really really jump on me.
And he would call me in the office and have
you know, very serious conversations with me. But he knew
if he called my dad. He called my dad from
the scores table, made me talk to him in front
of the guys. Um, yeah, come take me far away

(49:44):
when you come, you come over here and till your
dad oh shit, And then he'd be like yes, sir, yes, sir, yes,
I love you too. Click like that all sad doesn't
blocking shots doing crazy shit? Right, Yeah, he did. He
did that. He used him, He threatened it, just like

(50:05):
he did all of those threats and run me back
to walk to Hatchie. He did. He he used that
against us all. But that was, I mean my sophomore
years when it really switched for me. Um, Brian, your
your sophomore year, you didn't play very much right as
Masons playing the four. He had Robo at the five

(50:28):
and you had Pete at three. Right, They're just not
not a lot of minutes when you got those three right, uh,
And then we had just a bunch of other dudes
kind of fighting for back up minutes. But you basically
won us the ou game at the three joe line
and you got carried off to court. What was coach
like you remember like because you were like, yeah, like Pete,

(50:52):
Pete and we played right away for right and so
he kind of started by letting us do our thing
and then ruled us back in. For you, it was
kind of the opposite where he started out on you
and then eventually kind of through and earned his respect.
Was it that moment, like, when did it kind of
change for you? Um? I wouldn't say. Honestly, it changed
for me into my junior year. I think the OU game,

(51:14):
you probably thought it was just kind of like a
flute deal, um honestly, but uh, I was just happy
the fact that, you know, to take advantage of the
opportunities that I did get. My first year playing, there's
a lot of dudes I felt like you had to
beat out, you had to pass. And then also they
would bring guys in, uh that played the same position

(51:36):
as you when they were recruiting, you know, during the
year while you were playing. So, UM, I think things
changed for me my junior year, you know. I mean
I remember having different conversations with coach in the fall,
you know, about you know, playing and things like that,
and then you know, I could just see our relationship evolving. Um.
I think I settled in a lot more. Uh. You know,

(51:58):
I was playing with a lot of confidence. Um, but
a lot of it got to you know, he's not
an easy man to play for. I mean some guys,
some guys play right away, but very few guys come
in and play their first year. You know a lot
of times it takes you a year to get used to,
you know, what he demands out of you. Um, you know.
So for me, it was it was one of those

(52:19):
things where and I know we've all seen a lot
of guys come and go in the program that we
played with, and it was, you know, dudes that they
just couldn't they couldn't get it right. Man, They couldn't
figure out how to play for him. Um. So what
was the white dude's name? He was a big guy.
He might have been in Mace's class, might have been
in your class. Who wouldn't come out of his room?

(52:41):
Wouldn't come out of all those being bombed? And yeah,
who who's there class? That it wasn't my recruing class.
He came in with Jason with Jay scare think. Yeah,
he was old, old yeah, and then he went out
of his room. Dude, I don't even remember that guy.

(53:02):
That's the last first time hear that. Ain't me twenty man,
I don't know what the story was. He went through
like the pressure, like he was like one of those
everybody's been through it, like Brian was talking about it.
It was two days or three days and started season
or Christmas break right where there's nobody around and there's
no twenty hour rule and they're yan you and and

(53:25):
he couldn't do it, and he like locked himself in
the room and wouldn't come out. I ain't coming out.
I think the stories of the guys who left are
better than the guys who stayed. Like Roy Canley, you guys,
rest in peace to Big Roy Canley. Remember when that
dude showed up, Big Roy, Big Roy. That was the

(53:48):
biggest ye I've ever seen him, Big d Can you guys,
you guys with him calling him secup? Yeah? Boy, hey,
remember take I remember taking Roy to I took Roy
to Shortcakes on his visit. Man, Remember how we get
money to take We get p d M to take
dudes out. And you'd always try to you do, always

(54:09):
try to pop, you always try to hang out of
the sum Yeah, I remember, I remember taking Roy. I
remember taking Roy to freaking Shortcakes. Shortcakes. You can spend
ten dollars there and eat you know you want to eat. Man.
I remember King, I remember dropping him off at the hotel,
like three dollars of my name. After his visit, he

(54:32):
spent the whole damn per DM up man the whole thing.
Do you do you know the story of how they
found out he was lopt losing lake. Yes, okay, so
he so he I think coach's rules he couldn't practice
us unless he was like under three sixty five, right,

(54:55):
and this dude was like four four bills when he
came in. He sixty all right, He's like working out
in the morning and practicing with us and then working
out and starts. It makes no sense at all, right,
And so this is like first semester of maybe our

(55:15):
junior year, right, our junior because he was their second semester,
maybe our sophomore year, I can't remember, so anyway, maybe
it was the second semester, our second semester, I think
our junior year, my junior pe senior year. So big
roys on the team. He hadn't played a minute or
maybe he played a little bit. Exhibitions and they were like,

(55:36):
remember we had the slight cards and every time you
meal you get slight. So Coach had gone to all
the what are they called getting gallop or getting goes
or whatever that rusty or whoever owned you guys had
worked there in the summer. Yeah, and he told him
that you could only sell him a turkey sandwich, right,

(55:56):
and then he'd gone to all the dining halls like
you got you guys and sell Roy any bad food.
So it made no sense. So he's eating turkey and
managers would go and eat with him. So finally they
get the key. You know, they had the key because
he lived in that same room that Mace lived in
when me and May slived together in Bennett Hall, right
up on the fourth floor. And they go into his

(56:19):
room and there's just like hostess rappers everywhere everywhere. So
they're like it's like a mystery, like where the fuck
is he getting the hostess? So they had a manager
steak out his place. This dude was he had like
old school prison Isn't Break style. He had bid sheets

(56:41):
tied together little basket and his girlfriend would roll up
put the stuff in the basket, and he rolled it
into his room and found the hostess. Swear to god,
that's what happened. No, that's exactly that's exactly what happened.
They put him on a super salad diet. Coach put
him on a super salad diet, and they were they

(57:02):
can't they weigh him all. They would weigh him all
the time, and they were getting confused. Wise way would
either you know, one stay the same or he would
go up four or five pounds at a time. So
eventually coach put somebody on it. They used to stick
out the front of his uh dorm room, so they
put somebody on it to find out that his girlfriend
was giving him snacks and stuff through the window of
his dorm room. Yeah, that's when the movie Life was popular.

(57:24):
Remember that coach Austin our strength coach we called you
can't get it right. He lose he lose ten pounds
in a week and then come back on the weekend
in Dame fifteen. You like, I can't get didn't get
it right. I can't get right, my god, you know
what it is like like like Pall Graham. We all

(57:46):
had we all had like battles of Pall Graham. You know,
Sean was Jon was a little bit of different cat right.
We had random Dicky Oh or Tyle Keller our strength
coach is a dead lip champion. So we're doing all
this fucking this which didn't help anybody? Right are we
doing here? And yet we were still really good? It

(58:07):
made no sense at all. He must have been. Man,
did anybody ever see coach drawn the whiteboard? Not not
right on the whiteboard because he had an incredible penmanship,
But I don't ever remember him drawing up a play. No,
Sean was Shan was doing most of that, and whoever
was doing the report was doing Don Rand. I mean

(58:27):
as much as I can remember Sean Rand practice his
call most of the plays um and whoever did the
scouting report, you know they would, you know, speak on
things again. And we can't forget about coach Williams, you know,
being the son of son of the core or you

(58:52):
can Church. You can sus see that Church big ball
itself all right with that group. Man, if you if
you had anybody look at that coaches staff outside of
coach Suddon and say we would be as good as
we were. Yeah, I mean it was. There's nobody. You
lost a lot of money. Try to make that bet good.

(59:17):
It did work. Whenever you look for news, you may
feel forced to choose between partisans and mainstream media and
conspiracist and alternative media. That's where the Loss Debate steps in.
I'm Corey Bradford, a progressive political organizer TikTok Star who
also once hosted a Fox News radio show. I'm Ricky
schlod agen Zier Post columnist and libertarian fighting to protect

(59:40):
free speech. And I'm Robbie group To, a former staffer
for Obama and school principal who also fought alongside Republicans
on charter schools. And we watched The Loss Debate, a
podcast and YouTube show for the politically eclectics who've lost
trust in a polarizing partisan world, who do also rejected disinformation,
of manipulation and alternative media. Instead of being at each
other's ross, we focus on bringing new perspectives to the

(01:00:02):
table and constructive debate that sounds leslie, crossfire and more
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on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're
live here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for them,

(01:00:23):
and there they go, almost on time. This morning, Mom
is coming out the front door strong with a double
armed kid carry looks like Dad has the bags. Daughter
is bringing up the rear. Oh but the diaper bag
wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh, but mom
has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.

(01:00:44):
And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about
nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.
Dad zips the bag clothes and they're off, But looks
like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on
the roof of the car and there it goes. Ah,
that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't
sweat the small stuff, just nail the big stuff, like

(01:01:06):
making sure your kids are buckle correctly in the right
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(01:01:27):
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presented by adopt Us Kids, brought to you by the
US Department of Health, the Human Services Administration for Children

(01:01:47):
and Families, and the ad Council. Your favorite coach sentence
story My favorite coach set man. Probably we'll go back
to when you call my dad. I mean, I know
we just talked to just but that kind of blew
my mind, man, I mean nothing. Coach didn't really mess
with me a lot, So I didn't. He never really
got onto me a whole lot. But just when he

(01:02:08):
called my dad, like two or three times, I was like, dude,
this dude is so I mean something else. My dad
was pissed. He was like, dude, you're embarrassing me. What
the hell are you doing? And he kept doing he
kept calling it. I was like, the story, the stories
never lined up. Yeah, stories never lined up, Like by time,
by time you talk to your parents, you're like, that's
not what happened. Well, he's your pop. At Applebee's after

(01:02:37):
the game, he'd be like, shit, you keep walking. That
was just a shit, you keep walking, you keep walking? Yeah,
like he tell y'all that stuff. But he was, no,
that was diff No, he wasn't trying to have his

(01:02:59):
name messed up. So no, you weren't playing with me
be your favorite, right he He gave me one compliment
when I first, like my first week of practice, he
called my dad and said I could really play. That
was it. That was like, Bob, he could really play.

(01:03:20):
Outside of that, like, I don't ever remember getting fucking compliments.
And then the second time we played Kansas my senior year,
so our senior year, Pete's gone. We got screwed on
that bullshit called where he I don't know what you
were doing with Ryan Robertson trying to get all close
to that ship or whatever. Okay, so we lose him

(01:03:41):
in our place, in my place, and we beat him
by thirty three. But if you mace, you and b
can attest to this. He called time out and was
like slow it down there next year, but he didn't
want to run it up because he had to play
without us the next year. So we believe that the
big twelfth tournament. Now keep in mind that. Now, let

(01:04:05):
me kick the shit out of Kansas and they quit.
Then I think, didn't all our cars get towed that night?
Remember that? Yeah, they're doing gall Yeah, and we parked
across the street next to and everybody's cars got towed.
So we're like, fuck it, let's just go down to
Joe's drink beer, watch the replay of the game. We'll
worry about our cars tomorrow. That literally happened. So so

(01:04:30):
we go playing Kansas in the Big twelfth Tournament, and again, uh,
this would have been Pete's class game against Kansas Pad.
Do you remember having points we scored against KU in
Kansas City? Yeah, about forty maybe thirty thirty seven, I
believe thirty seven. It was our fourth in four days
and we scored forty seven. So yeah, uh so we

(01:04:53):
go up there and playing in the Big twelve Tournament
and and I I threw two oops to Mace. I
made my free throws like I played really so you
had to go to that press conference afterwards, you know,
and he put his arm around me, He's like, that
was the best basketball game I've ever seen you play.
Those the only two compliments I ever remember getting trunk.

(01:05:14):
So the next night, what would you say to you?
The next night, I think we lost. I was staying,
who are you doing up? You can't play him? Mace
fous out? Why the fuck you fouling out? Fous out?
And then Joe's like, I'm fould out yeah, And then

(01:05:38):
and then Joe started Joe. Joe's like, I'm gonna win
this game. And then I don't know if you remember,
I drove in to shoot a layup, yeah, and I
fucking tricked off a layup and I hit my hand
on the ring. Who are you doing? I was like,
I don't know, Coach. I was so I was gonna dunk.
You're not dunking it? Lay out last Coach to the game.
Ass one hundred hipkies for that damn thing I have.

(01:06:00):
I deserved the paddling after that ship. So that's back
when we got back. We got back. That's what we
got back to, uh still Water. We watched still in
that game, and that's when Kyle Keller rewound that play
about one hundred times and said, we played for the
name on the on the front of the jersey, not
on the name on the back of the jersey. He
was talking about that lay up from shot you remember

(01:06:20):
that wide open I hit my hand in the rim. Sorry,
Dudeley used to feed you for your for your your
shooting time with a phone in his ear. Yeah, like yo, man,
like this is my I'm trying to get better up
here like uh huh uh fallow Through fall Through? Ye
here you go. Yeah, he trying to try to get

(01:06:41):
a job fall fall Through. What's your favorite? Like any
set in memory? Probably in my senior year. Man, this
is just kind of fun just the way he was,
you know. He would tell you how great you were
one day and then bring you back to bring you
back to earth and the next day. And I think

(01:07:02):
we were getting it was towards the end of the season.
I was playing pretty well, and um he started playing us.
He started playing us a little bit different, Like I
started playing the three a little bit at some point, Um,
you know, in practice and stuff like that. He was like,
he asked me. He asked me one day in practice.
He was like, what was I gonna do after I
was done playing. I was like, He's like, hey, if

(01:07:22):
I was going to continue to play? And I said, yeah, coach,
that's the plan man, And I'm like, I want to
keep playing, you know. So he said, I gotta get
you ready to go play over in Kuwait. I was like,
Kuwait and I think, I think, I just I think
next year. Yeah, we played Nebraska and I think I

(01:07:43):
had like twenty four and twelve or something. So I
was still pretty good about myself and uh, you know,
and then he's given me a lot more freedom and
things like that to handle the ball. He says that
to me, and I'm like, damn, man, I was just
on five nine. Didn't feel like I could do anything wrong,
felt like I finally arrived and you're saying to me,
to Kuwait, you're telling me I'm always playing quait next year.

(01:08:03):
But it was always things like that with him. Man,
it was the opposite for Mace. Okay, all I know
is all of us like, once you got the start,
you got the good shoes, right, you got to you
don't don't have to wear the team shoes anymore. But
Mace had Air Jordan's and ship. Okay, senior year old,

(01:08:24):
did he come to you and he's like what, like,
how what was that you were privy to conversations that
the rest of us were not privy too? How did
that come to be that you you got Air Jordan?
Uh So, my senior year I just I walked in.
I asked him, I said, come outside, and we had
access to shoes. We can get cooler shoes, and so
I asked. I was like, Coach, I really like these

(01:08:44):
Jordan shoes. I've never had a pred Jordan before. I said,
can this beat the shoes? Stop playing? So he got
me two pairs and they both with the black and
gray and that was that was That was how I
got him. I said, I've never had Jordan before, and
I want to play any shoes as a senior. And
he was like, okay, I'll get him. That was it.
Mace's playing his ass off though, and this is how

(01:09:06):
Coach was. I don't know if you guys remember this,
but if if if Coach did, if you, if, if
you the guava juice and Hawaii, remember yes when you
I love guava juice. I love guava juice. You know,
first time being out Inwaii, man, I couldn't. I couldn't
drink enough of that stuff. Man. So then we get back,
we get back to stow Water that I'm playing like shit.
He tells the managers to go find some guava juice.

(01:09:29):
So I didn't get out of my slum. But that's didn't.
You're you're George's blow out when we were in Seattle
playing didn't. And then and then you were you were
gonna have to play in a different pair of shoes.
And automatically, somehow, some way, those damn shoes showed up
the day before the day of the game. I think,
if I remember, right, yeah, I'll blow him out to practice.
I I remember, yeah, And it was a big deal

(01:09:51):
because it was a big deal because Mace was Mace
throwing one of those little hissy fits about it, and
coach Coach disappeared and then next thing you know, the
damn he was to sitting in the locker room before
the game. But that's how That's how coach was, man,
I mean, he was, he was, he was. He took
care of you too. Man. I had to go trade
mine out of the frieze. That's how I had to

(01:10:11):
get That's how I got all mine. I trade him
out and get him to give me something like these
are fucking terrible. These Remember that the team shoes are
always the worst. It's like everybody had to wear him,
like the first thing you're practicing, like, I need some
other shoes, Coach. These ain't these ain't working not not
working out, Okay, the it did change when you graduated,

(01:10:36):
when you were done playing. So Pete, you finished first,
so you get downe playing and you hurt your knee
in Chicago. What was he What was he like with
you when you got downe playing? Coachman, He reached up
to me, I won't say three or four times that year,

(01:10:56):
just checking on me, birthday calls and stuff like that,
checking out I was doing that I needed anything, you know,
you know, inviting me to come back to rehab and
steel Water just so. He did do a very good job,
him and Sean Um just checking in and making sure
I was doing okay. Um. I think I came back
to maybe one game for sure in Little Rock, maybe

(01:11:16):
a couple of games. But he did a very good
job of checking on me. So that made me feel good.
But he didn't invite me to come back and rehab
and work out with you guys. But you know, I
was kind of at home and it took me a
little longer to rehab, but it was good. It was
a good time, Um. But as far as helping you
in your life and checking in your life and your kids, like,

(01:11:36):
what was that because I did. I feel like, like,
look he called in this is this is I don't
know if I told you guys this ship. He's like,
I sit with him about the agent thing, right, and
he's like, oh, you know what you should do. You
should coach women's basketball. I was like, and keep in mind,

(01:11:57):
like that's taking a shot at you. Yes, how we
view women's basketball today is very different from how we
view women's basketball then, right, Like I won't I won't
name names, but we did have an assistant coach that
said sex and women's basketball are two things that are
best played in the dark. Right, I remember that shit, right?

(01:12:18):
I was like, and so now I'll send the same
that wasn't coach somebody else he said that anyway, So
I said women's basketball is like oh yeah, oh, He's like, son,
you don't want to get into this rat race is
not a good living. He's like, you could be the
head coach here. He's gonna retire in a couple of years.

(01:12:40):
I get you on the staff, give me the head
and coach for your thirty. So I don't know if
he was trying to throw me off the scent because
he wanted Sean to have the job or he really
liked that job for me, but he was trying to
convince me that like women's basketball, it was a great
little honey hoole to make money for the next like
forty years, that it was easy pickings. And I was

(01:13:00):
like it turned me off so much. I was like
it literally like I couldn't talk to him. Like six
months after that, I was like, Okay, Coach, I'll let
you know if I'm interested. That was what about you
beat with advice for you? Um, Coach was awesome. I
mean he was. He was. He was a lot different
obviously when you when you stopped playing with him or
stopped playing for him. Um. The biggest thing for me was,

(01:13:23):
you know, I had a I was around him all
the time because when I retired from playing, you know,
he lived here in Tulsa, so I got to spend
a lot of time with him, you know, either Watchington
Scott play at or you um, or just going back
to HQ games to seeing him. Um. The biggest thing though,
was like how how he was he was interested in
and not only what you were doing professionally, but in

(01:13:44):
the growth of your family. You know. I remember when
Maya was born, my first my first child. She was
born in Italy and Coach sends a letter UM autographed
Jordan's Um. You know, and it was like every time
the kids had a birthday, they got a birthday card
or you know, he call on your birthday and you know,
he would just call in and just check out you
and see how you're doing. Kind of like Pete was

(01:14:05):
alluding to. UM. You know, it was just like the
love for for us. I felt like it didn't it
didn't stop when we when we stopped playing, UM, it
continued on. UM. You know, well, well he was functioning
well about you. So make your eyes obviously your your
thing is different. What was it like when you came

(01:14:27):
back after the plane crash? Oh man, it was, uh,
it was. It was emotional obviously for everybody. And um,
you know, the Sonics were gracious enough to charter a plane,
fly me into steal Water, show me to stay as
long as I need to stay. UM, And I remember
sitting down and you know, again I think we all

(01:14:49):
you know, Coach Sutton was an extension of our family.
It was kind of like your your father away from home,
you know, the guy that was making sure that you
would take care of and uh, and everything and you
would create your business as well. Um, so you know
you kind of looked out at least I looked at
it like that. And uh, to walk into his office
just you know him and I wanted to talk to me,

(01:15:09):
and you know, just kind of gave me a big
hug and just broke down and started crying. And it was,
you know, and told me kind of everything about making
those phone calls and and you know how hard it
was and how he wished it it could be different,
and just crying. I had never seen coach cry, um,
so it was. It was really and I'm talking about
it a real cry, you know, not a tear up.

(01:15:30):
So it was it was. It was just really emotional man.
And uh and and and just to talk about you know,
once I got done playing like he was very important
in the process when when we lost an NTABA tournament,
my draft process started fairly immediately. I work out and
Coach sad in every meeting. Um, he asked all the questions.

(01:15:53):
I asked no questions. Him and my dad asked all
the questions. I just listened. Um. You know, he was
very you know, a very important part of who I
decided to go with as an agent and then you know,
watch my process, critique my game as I continue to play. Um.
But come back to the plane crash. You know, he changed.

(01:16:14):
That changed him. And I think I've changed anybody, but
that definitely changed him. He just he became a different person.
Even when I talked to him. You need to tell
he just wasn't he brought it up all the time. Um,
it was. It was impactful on us all, but for
him it really changed. I think I think it changed
who he was as a whole. H you know, the

(01:16:38):
stroke things so sad. I think it's most sad because
none of you guys know this. So when Patsy died,
he told me and Seana told me that like two
weeks before, they were sitting at dinner talking and he
was like, look, I'm gonna go before you go, So
if I have a stroke, I want anybody seeing you

(01:17:01):
like that, just turning machines on. And then like literally
two weeks later, they're at Chili's and she has the struggle.
So I mean it was crazy. And then of course
late in life he had that he had the struggle. Um,
let's start with this, Pete. When when he had his

(01:17:23):
car crash and he went through all his personal stuff
and it became very very public. What did you what
did you think? What was it like for you personally?
I mean it was it was pretty difficult to kind
of hear because you know, you hear a lot of
negative stuff, and you know, I was kind of detached
a little bit, but hear a lot of negative stuff
in the news and people saying things, and you know,

(01:17:44):
for me, I knew, you know, half of it wasn't true.
I didn't know what he was going through the time.
We all go through things, you know, so it was
kind of just no different than watching that special on
the ESPN or whatever. And I kind of got a
little pissed off about some things that was said about
him and just how people, even you know people use
around every day. It's had a lot of negative stuff
because that's all they knew. It's negative stigma about whether

(01:18:06):
it's an alcohol or whatever they perceived him to be
or who are they perceived him to be. And I
just took it personal and it bothered me. You know,
it was kind of you know, you constantly find yourself
trying to defend him because we know him. Most people don't.
They just know what they're writing the papers, and I
mean it was tough to sit through a conversation with
guys kind of trying to bash you know, coach and um,

(01:18:28):
it was rough everybody. I believe he had a chi
It's tough. Man. I was in Italy playing and m
I remember calling him, calling him and talking to him
a couple of days after happened. Um, And it's kind
of like what Pee said, Man, I mean, it's um.
You know, there's a lot of people that that they

(01:18:50):
don't get coach. You know, they see his they see
his persona and they assume he's a certain way, but
they don't they don't understand how you know, tenderhearted he
is and the struggles that he he dealt with and
things like that. But it was it was definitely tough. Um,
it was hard. But the one thing that I took
away from it was the way he handled the situation.

(01:19:10):
You know, how he was accountable to his actions, how
he you know, he stood up, he faced the music. Um.
You know, he didn't make any excuses, He didn't run
from anything, he didn't hide from anything. Um. You know,
I think that was that was a big takeaway, Uh,
for a lot of us but yeah, I'm with Pete man,
it was it wasn't easy, you know, and and watching
the documentary and and and going through that emotion and

(01:19:33):
just seeing seeing his pitfalls and and and everything that
he struggled with. H definitely, definitely, definitely is tough to watch. Yeah, No,
I mean and and Mace, I know you've you've dealt
with more addiction in your life that you personally with
people around you, and I know it's a part of
your life stories. You have a different thing outlook on it.
But I can only tell you that you guys remember,

(01:19:55):
like I I they had me go on Sports Center
and I was like, look, coach always honest, to be accountable,
Like he's got to be accountable for this, Like I
don't think he can coach at OSU anymore, not because
I don't love him. And there's a lot of you know,
like I was out of the family circle for like
a year or because of it. And then he called
me and he was like, I was like crying because

(01:20:18):
I felt so bad because everybody made me feel so
bad for saying when I thought was the right thing.
And he was like, I go, coach, I'm I'm sorry
if you're mad at me. He's like, I'm not mad
your son. You are the moment that did wrong. And
I was like, oh, and his whole thing was exactly
what you were saying to me, which is like, you know,
like I was in a bad place and you gotta

(01:20:40):
be on some level accountable for it. He's like, you know,
help me. He's like, you know, you could have recused yourself.
And my thing was like, I can't recuse myself. In
like six six weeks before or six months before, Bob
Huggins was on a recruiting visit and he had a
DUY and I was like, yo, man, you can't have
a DUI represented school, Like you can't can't do that.

(01:21:01):
And I can't say that about Bob Huggins, who I liked,
and not say it about Coach Sutton, who I love
because I love Coach Sutton. Anyway, he was unbelievable, Like
until he couldn't speak, he would always tell me, like,
I have no problem with anything you ever said. It
was my problems, not yours. You're just doing your job. Anyway,

(01:21:24):
he was, but I will tell you that, like my
heart sank for him because we used to joke around
about it. He used to joke around about that shit, right,
Like he would have a bad day and he'd beyond
your ass. He'd be like, oh shit, he drinking again.
It was like, and I was like, I don't don't
even joke about that ship it right, And I don't know,

(01:21:47):
I would guess anybody who has to call ten families
like that, that's hard in your heart. I don't know
how you you're recovering alcoholic mace. What was that like
for you to go through? Considering how most you over coaching? Man,
it was for me, it was it was difficult for
us all, but it was it was extremely difficult for me, um,
just because of the relationship and the bond and the

(01:22:10):
relationship we continued to have in a relationship and him
and my dad and my stepmom and my mom you
know had obviously with my past with my mom, you know,
and and her addiction. You know it really you know,
it hurt my feelings, It hurt my heart, and you know,
to be really transparent honest, Doug, Like I was kind
of on board with a lot of other people, you know,

(01:22:30):
I didn't care what happened, what he did. I understood
that it was he was a grown man, and he
made decisions, but you know, I would never speak on it,
and and you know when things came out that were
said by you, you know, for me personally, I was like, damn,
that's family like he did, family like that, you know.
So I was on board with everybody else. And that's

(01:22:51):
just on of truth that just you know, because I
just would not expect that. But I do. You know,
I understand that. You know, you had a job and
you can't hold favorites. You know, it is what it is.
And the fact that Coach was okay and forgave that
and he definitely took responsibility for it, UM just epitomized
who Coach was. UM. But man, I was right there

(01:23:13):
with everybody else. I was like, damn, my god, did
that you know he really he really should on coach
like that like that. Yeah, I couldn't, but I couldn't believe, man,
I was. I was absolutely blown away. But I was
more hurt because I thought that that would just destroyed
Coach because we were all a family. And after having
a bunch of conversations wherever after the fact that, Um,
after the accident, you know, I kind of was on

(01:23:35):
board with you when you had your conversation with him
that he said it was my issue. You know, it
wasn't It wasn't anybody else's problem. It was my problem.
I made the mistake. I have to own up to it.
And he apologized to he like, I'm sorry. You know
that that you know I did this as your coach.
You know I shouldn't be doing things like that. Um.

(01:23:56):
But yeah, man, it was It was hard because I just,
you know, I grew up and around a lot of people,
close family members that that were Dickson for a long time,
and it was the last thing I want to see
anybody go through, and the c coach go through that,
and then also see Sean go through it as well. Man,
it was just it hurt me. It hit It hit
really close to home for me. Yeah, if I could

(01:24:17):
do it all over again, you know, if I could
do it all over again. And part of it is,
you know, in full transparency that night that it happened,
I called Alex Webber and Denise of course at the
time was like the BP at the hospital and I
should like the press in the hospital, and so I
knew something was up and I was trying to help him.

(01:24:38):
I was like trying to like, look, if this thing
is bad, like let's get out ahead of it, let's
talk about it, let's figure out what the right messaging is.
And you know, kind of you guys know how it
all works, Like everybody wanted to cover for coach because
nobody want to make him look back, right, And I
don't know if that was part of it, you know,
because I do love coach and he is right he

(01:25:00):
did it wasn't it embarrassed us? But it's like that's
what he kind of became known for more than being
a great coach. It's it's unfair, you know, and so
and there's a like just a lot that goes into it, right,
But the big kind of takeaway from me was, you know,
I had never been in that situation before, and it

(01:25:23):
was just a very weird, Like I was trying to
help them, they still nobody was being honest with me.
I knew what the truth was. Then they finally came
out like everybody was trying to protect coach, and like
it's the cover up, not the crime. Like it was
a bad thing that happened, but covering up makes it worse.
Instead of going like, hey, look he's an alcoholic, he

(01:25:45):
fell off the wagon. These things happened, He's gonna be thankfully,
everybody's gonna be okay. Anyway. Yeah, I'm like, I wish
you in hindsight, we had all like gotten on the
phone together and be like, all right, what we gonna do?
How are we gonna like handle this? How should I
handle this? But at the time of where everybody was
kind of disjointed, right and not connected bees playing in Italy, right, Pete,

(01:26:08):
I don't know if you were still playing at the time, right,
I'm working in Bristol, Like everybody's somewhere different, and it
was before we could all hop on calls like that.
But I felt terrible, you know. I just remember walking
away feeling awful because, like I said, I felt like
I said what needed to be said, but I don't
know if I was the guy that needed to say it.

(01:26:30):
And that was the hard part, right, Like I just
didn't want like jay Bill is saying, hey, he shouldn't
coach again, like, well, Gotley didn't say shit, and I'm
I'm a straight shooter on everything else. It was. It
was a really it was a hard one for me.
But we did kind of make amends, and you know,
I think it's the I think like Sean and some
of those others are more in the Mace kind of

(01:26:52):
category where they were upset at the time. They're like,
you know, as long as you two were good, that's
all really the matters at the end. But it just
sucks because I feel like for some reason that's what
kept him out of the Hall of Fame, which makes
no sense to me. Right like this is this is
gonna drop tomorrow inducted into Nason Borough Hall of Fame.

(01:27:15):
Like he was an incredible coach, all right, so let's
let's do this. Hey, I got two more for you all.
Let me start with you, Mace. Um, you played for
a lot of people, played a decade in the NBA. Um,
what made him a special coach from your perspective? I mean,

(01:27:37):
I think b B said earlier, you know, the way
he would kind of build you up and break you down.
You know, it kept you, It kept us all on
our toes. You know, you never got a big head.
There was never any from mind, from what I knew
when I team, I never felt that there was any arrogance.

(01:27:57):
I think we all were a little cocky. We all thought,
I think we can get things done. But it never
hurt the team because he always kept that in check.
You know, he never gave a bad Even though I
Joe brings this up all time, I still don't think
Coach necessarily played favorites with me. Coach just sick Paul
Graham on me instead of him doing it himself. You know,
Coach knew how to get at certain people. He knew

(01:28:20):
he couldn't overly yell at Joe because we would lose Joe,
you know, but he knew he could, you know, jump
on you, Doug, because you're just gonna take that as motivation.
And so he was very very good about managing all
of our personalities. But I think Brian said it best
when he said he would build you up and then
break you back down. And that kept us all, you know,

(01:28:40):
focused on the team aspect as opposed to the individual. Right,
how you played for a lot of people overseas, play theater.
You know, you played over a decade professionally. Why do
you think he's all offend cover? I mean, look at
look at how he's look at his bout of work.
He's done it over four decades, He's won over four
day kids. The game The game changed you know right

(01:29:04):
before his eyes while well he's coaching, um, and he
was able to coach at a high level. You know,
look at the look at the programs that he started, um,
you know in Idaho and and what he built that
into and then going to Creighton and getting them to
the NCAA tournament and then basically, I mean the thing is,
man is you know, what he's done in Arkansas is phenomenal, um,

(01:29:25):
you know, and then coming back to Oklahoma State and
and and turning Oklahoma State into a powerhouse, you know,
and and getting the final But as a coach now,
as a coach, now, what do you because because because
I would say, I would say for me coaching, like
he knew how to get everybody, he gonna have to

(01:29:47):
press everybody, but like pizza dead that press. But I
watched him getting Mace to play in his way, and Mace,
I don't know if you realized he would do this,
Like you wouldn't be playing very well in the first half,
did you playing hard? And he'd come into the locker
room like wait, died five guys like yo, ma up,
like five things waited five guys to play? Yeah? Um,

(01:30:16):
the last time you had a conversation with coach. What
do you remember that? Oh? Oh, I know what this.
I was gonna bring this up. Remember it was a
few years ago. Remember when we went and saw him
in Tulsa and I think it was me, you, Joe

(01:30:39):
and Sean. He just had surgery and he was in
that rehab facility building the strength up, trying to you know,
so he could, uh he could get back home. And
we went and picked him up goldies. Remember I think
what was that four or five years ago? I think
so the thing was is, you know, we all got together,
were talking and I remember walking out and you know

(01:31:02):
how coaches, he's the ultimate storyteller, um, and he was
telling stories. And then I remember walking out. I remember
he was still in a wheelchair, so he was he
was at the entrance, the exit, and he kind of
walked us out. Um, you know, as we were leaving,
I remember this lady asking who are those guys? And uh,
he said those are my boys, you know, and and

(01:31:25):
and um. That's that's something that I took away for
a long time because I mean we were what fifteen
sixteen years removed playing for him, and he still felt
the same way about us that he did when we
were playing for UM. So it's interesting, you know, I
feel like I've always tried to be really really like

(01:31:51):
and I remember we were we played in Israel together.
We even I remember when he's at the Storm we
were together. I can't remember when it was when we
were back in still Water, and I just remember, like, Bro,
no matter what do you think of me, Adrian Peterson
was a way better player than me, right, like one

(01:32:15):
of the best players to ever play at os U.
There was something about our group which connected with people
and connected with coach, Like I think the final four
team was awesome, and he probably should have retired after
that final four, right, especially had they beat in Georgia Tech.
You know, you get to the finals. You know, would

(01:32:37):
have been amazing if he would have hung one up
to them. But whatever, Um, But there's there was something
about our group, our junior year and our senior year
which people and I think it's it was Coach's connection
with us. It was that it was a very deep
personal relationship that I'm not sure with the later teams

(01:32:59):
he had as much. You know, UM, it's just very
interesting to me on how I agree. Maybe it's that
we went by and saw him. Maybe it's that we
kept in touch. Maybe it's our own kind of egos
in our own heads, trying to prove to ourselves how
important we were. But I did feel like our group,
like our three years, and Pete, you can attest to

(01:33:23):
this like your your first two years were down years, right,
and really his only two down years at the school.
And maybe it's because we got it back going. I'm
not sure. I do feel like our group didn't get
to a final four, and people always like, oh, did

(01:33:43):
you get to a final four with you? You play
with Country or you were play John Lucas, Like, No,
I didn't play in either those groups. We didn't make
we didn't win the league, we didn't go to final four.
Well oy of games. I felt like we resonated more
with with him and with fans than other people and
other other groups. I would agree. Was that for sure,
because my first year, that group was kind of we

(01:34:04):
had some juco players we had come in, we had
some seniors, we had one freshman, so it was a
kind of real different group. When when you guys, when
that freshman class with Mason, those guys showed up. That
was what five or six guys and then when you
and Brian came in, it was the group was real close,
tight knit. My senior year, junior senior year, pretty much

(01:34:26):
we all kind of hung out together. We all kind
of like mine. We did the same stuff. We were
just a tide of group, I thought, you know, and
then of course after I left, you know, you guys,
you senior, you took it to another level. But it
was just just a better It's a tide of group
those last two years. And plus, everybody rebuilds at some point,
and that my first two years, that's exactly what was

(01:34:46):
going on, was rebuilding process for the program. So unfortunately
I had to go through that, but it was fun
and we came out on at the end of it.
So when when when your girls get older, Pete and
Pe will start to go like, hey, you played for
a Hall of Fame coach, like what would be your
how would you help them understand what made him special

(01:35:09):
as a coach through your experience. Actually funny he said
that because we gotta my daughter's volleyball player and she
has an old school coach. I'm talking with old school
like ruff dude, and she's going through that this year
with well, she lets this player she doesn't. He didn't
yell at this this girl. He doesn't yell at this girl.
He always yells at me. And I go, well, here,

(01:35:30):
here's the talent of being a coach. You gotta know
how to handle each individual player. Like my daughter. You
can yell at her, she don't care. She's like whatever,
She's still gonna smile at having the time, great personality.
There are some girls that are really talented. You can't
get onto him. You can approach him and critique him,
but I like Mace. You couldn't really jump on Mace

(01:35:52):
like that. You get pulling to the side, giving really
good criticism and encourage him and he'll gonna do whatever
for you. But yelling at him wasn't gonna get anything
out of him. Me, I didn't really care, Like, that's fine, loans,
I'm out on the court, you can yellow, you won't
hold you playing if I'm getting my shots. But um,
kind of like with Joe, Joe, you couldn't really yell

(01:36:14):
come down on Joe like that. He just didn't receive
it that way. So we're dealing with that as you speak.
And I would just say coach was very good at
noticing who he can lean on, who he could ride,
who we can make an example out of, and who
he had to you know, call him do things a
certain a certain way, and he got the best out
of all his players one through fifteen. How many ever,

(01:36:35):
was coach. Coach used to always say this too. This
is something I take away, especially in the role that
I'm in now, is you treat them all the same,
but you coach them different. I think Pete was alluding
to that, you know, you gotta know, you gotta know
who your guys you can get on to maybe send
a message to that one guy that you can't really
that really doesn't take hard criticism, you know, but he's

(01:36:56):
saying he's seeing if you can get on the best player,
you can get on this guy, he can take it.
You know. It allows him to be able to coach
some of these other guys that need to be coach different. So,
I mean, that's one thing I've taken away from Coach,
you know, And he used to say this all the time,
especially uh, you know, after I finished playing and things
like that, is you know, you treat him all the
same off the court, but on the court, you coach
them different. You got to find out what buttons. Uh,

(01:37:19):
some of the guys need to be pushed and some
guys you can't. You can't push as hard. UM. But
at the same time, you've got to be effectively coaching them. UM.
And I think that's something that he's did. He's done
a really, really, really good job of UM. You know,
over the time that I played for him, the time
that we played for him, is just watching the guys
that he can lean on a little bit harder versus
the guys that he couldn't UM. You know, and Doug,

(01:37:41):
you were bringing up a point about our team. You know,
one thing that I thought that uh, you know, goes
unnoticed with coaches coaches career is the guys that he got.
He didn't have a lot of McDonald's all Americans, you know,
he really didn't have a lot of guys that played
in the league um played in the NBA and things
like that. He got a lot of guys, a lot
of sect and chance guys, a lot of bounce back guys,

(01:38:02):
you know, guys that needed another opportunity to go to
university and and get a second chance and things like that.
I mean, if you look at our team over our career,
I mean, how many transfers did we have that we're
able to come back in and play and have some
successful him. Coach was a master at at getting transfers
and getting Juco guys to come in and play, play
as a team, or even guys that other people missed on. Right,

(01:38:25):
you know, right, you know, Pete, did Arkansas offer you?
They know, not early They didn't. They wanted me to
wait because they were trying to get because Marlin Towns
or something. But Coach told me, if Arkansas officers a scholarship,
you should go there because that's because after basketball you've
been from the state. That's gonna be so much more

(01:38:46):
valuable to you playing at a high level for that
university in that state. But if they don't, this is
the next best place for you. So he told me
that on my home visit. I'm like, well, hell, I
don't know, do you want me? I guess it On
really won't either, So so um back kind left the
bad time, but I understood, you know what he was saying,
and it worked out well. That's kind of probably why

(01:39:07):
I ended up that because he was very truthful with
me about you know, who I was and my chances
at Oaklhoma State. So, um, when he gets inducted, like
what what will go through your mond when you're when
you're seeing and he's not He's not here obviously, So

(01:39:27):
I think they have three different presenters. Bill self's going
to be one of them, you know, um when he
gets presented, Like what what will be going through your mind? Uh?
Just well deserved, long time coming. You know, we all do.
We all go on a journey, you know, whatever it is,
whether whatever, professionally in But for him to um kind

(01:39:51):
of I would say he left out for as long
as he was because of maybe perceptions or a few
stories that could have been true, to be true, whatever,
I would just be well deserved lifetime achievement. The war
pretty much and it should have happened sooner. I wish
it would happen a lot sooner. If I could be
you and you could be me for just one hour,

(01:40:13):
if you could find a way to get inside each
other's mind. Walcome mile in my shoes. Welcome Mile in
my shoes. Shoes. We've all felt left out, and for
some that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can
change that, learn how it belonging begins with us dot org,
brought to you by the ACT Council. Welcome mile in

(01:40:35):
my shoes. Look through your children's eyes to see the
true magic of a forest. It's a storybook world for them.
You look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled
face of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky.
They see treasure in pebbles. They see a windy path
that could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guy.

(01:41:00):
Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and
start exploring at Discover the Forest dot org, brought to
you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council.
Look to your children's eyes to see the true magic
of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You
look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face
of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They

(01:41:22):
see treasure in pebbles. They see a windy path that
could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide.
Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and
start exploring at Discover the Forest dot org, brought to
you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council.
That's the thing is, it's not just that I wish you.

(01:41:43):
I'm glad that he got recognized when you were still alive,
but I wish people would they put him in sooner
before he had the stroke. Like he was such a
dynamic personality. Yeah, I mean such a dynamic personality, like
you said, like we were all scared at death of them. Yeah,
Steward to death, right, like Stanard of an old ass man.

(01:42:06):
You're like, I don't know why and step into him.
Yeah yeah, And and and he was funny, he was
gary as he took over a room of his personality.
I think that's the part that upsets me, is that
he got left out so long that we missed it
having a text winner, two text winners, one of the
funniest dudents you've ever met. But by the time he
got in, he was a shell of his former self,

(01:42:29):
you know. And and they wait so long, you don't
you don't understand what made him him And what made
coach was his personality, like you said, his ability to
understand the room. And I remember, I don't gains remember
this my first year there beast for a year that
we flew to the Missouri right, and we're going to
play and you know against against Norm Stewart, and our

(01:42:52):
fight was late getting because they had an ice storm
coming in we Land, and we go practice at the
old Herne Center and then we gotta go somebody, so
we go to um Olive garden, a garden, and they
were like they came out there like um, sir, coach, listen,

(01:43:13):
we just we're our kitchen's closed. And it was like,
you know, like ten fifteen on a Tuesday night. We
had a game on a Wednesday, right like out of nowhere,
he flipped and goes like, you tell Maddy Sunday's boys
were hungry. And I'm telling me, I swear to God,
like you know, the managers at those at those day

(01:43:36):
don't do anything days. The boss people around right, the
managers back there in the kitchen cooking up spaghetti and breadsticks.
And we had ourselves a hell of a meal. And
then Keith, I don't know if you remember this one
our first conference I want to say our first, but
now one of our first conferencerol games. We actually lost
that Baylor, which was embarrassing because Baylor was so shitty

(01:43:57):
at the time. On a on a double clutch from
half court bank shot and I got benched in double
over time we watch. What I remember about that trip
other than that shot and getting benched was the night
before you and I were sitting having dinner at the
restaurant and he and Patsy saddle up to us. He

(01:44:18):
just starts talking about Kentucky. It was weirder. It was
like how to be. It was out of nowhere. It
wasn't like a hey coach having to Kentucky. Hey coach,
tell me a story, Like said, are you guys doing Like,
let me tell you about what happened to Kentucky? Yeah,
like okay, real, what the hell did you ask? I

(01:44:42):
asked him anything like Joe Bill had three hundred and
sixty five tickets. We're like, okay, like job, all right,
you know they had tickets. I got like, I don't
know coaching. Well well, ICTs He's like, what do you
think three five tickets lasting a decade? I was like,

(01:45:03):
that's a lot of friends and family. Coaches like, no,
it's like you give two to the car dealers, you
give two to the grocery store, two to every restaurant,
so guys don't have to pay for anything. Ain't no cheating,
you just you just give them all the tickets. It's like,
so I don't know, I can't coming back to twelve tickets.
All these people get mad. We basically said it was

(01:45:24):
a setup because people weren't getting their tickets anymore. Like,
is that that's the short version, Pete? Is that the
accurate tale of what he was telling us? Yeah, he
wanted to bat and he wanted to a whole story,
which I don't. We were like, We're sitting there for
like an hour and a half and I was like,
what the hell was he talking about? Like, I didn't
ask you this, I don't care. I'm here coaching over
told me I'm here, and he just kept talking. We

(01:45:47):
were looking at each other like, man, I don't really
care about how the Monday got to this person. That person.
It was a strange conversation. One the way it was
that a conversation. It was a dissertation exactly. You know,
it was basic presenting his case. It was weird. It
was very, very weird, very weird. Okay, so here's the question, Pete.

(01:46:09):
Did you ever get anything anything that wasn't by the book.
I wasn't that good. So I ain't get nothing out.
I ain't get no, I didn't not any time of
my way. No, I don't No, I mean I know no. Huh.
Do you know anybody who did? No? I mean if

(01:46:33):
I did, I wouldn't tell you what I mean. I
know a couple of people probably, But you know, maybe
that's what I was Nah basketball playing football? Maybe Yeah,
it ain't basketball. I want to get into football. And
what happened there? But no basketball. No other thing we
got was asked you, Yeah, and do better talks. You

(01:46:58):
got ten dollars an hour, got to work for Rusty
in the South, and and and here's the whole. Remember,
remember like this happened. This happened where you had to
get your paycheck from coach Rusty sent Rusty sent the
paycheck to coach. Yeah, because he wanted to make sure
it was everything was on the up and up and
that you were working the hours that you were supposed

(01:47:19):
to be working. So it wasn't like like any any
anything and everything. Coach Coach had his hand on, man,
I mean he knew everything that was going on. Yeah.
I used to I mean I used to say fart
on campus. They smelled, Yeah, yep, you can't do anything man. Yeah, okay,
but I got the all time I don't know if
you guys know this. So um, I my before my

(01:47:41):
senior year, I went to Greece some hoop group, all
American team, right, so they could they couldn't they couldn't
connect you with boosters, but they could tell you who
the boosters to call here and you had to find
their number. Anyways, I was trying to make some so
the boosters end up illegally paying for your trip, right.
But then I needed some spending money, so coaches like, oh,

(01:48:04):
I got some jobs for you, come out to the house.
I saw him in some shorts, Okay, I never I'd
never seen him in shorts before or since. And he
was in some like Bermuda shorts like you know that
plaid ugly shit that taverywhere, some sorts, some tall life

(01:48:26):
sucks and some like those coaching white and orange sneakers.
And then like an Oklahoma state polo, you know, and
I go out there and he's like he had one
of those. It was a push mower, but it was
like it was like a self propelled It wasn't like
the old school. It actually helped kind of go along.
It was. It was a good mower. Right, But he's

(01:48:46):
like all right, you know mobile. I was like, Coach,
that's a big asslawon. Now, that's like fifty bucks. I'll
give you twenty five bucks. Where it's like twenty five bucks. Goes,
it's like fifty bucks. He was, Do you do this
one that I think Randall Dickie was staying in his
rent house, which is around the corner. They do that
one and I'll give you fifty bucks, like a coach,

(01:49:08):
I'm not gonna have a fifty dollars that because like
my whole day. Oh all right, I'll give you a
seven one. I'm like negotiating with coach. Right, he goes,
here's what I'll do. Okay, we're gonna or some lunch.
I'll do you some lunch and I give you seventy
five dollars, so that's fair. I was like, all right,
coach whatever. So I did that, and then he got
me like a bunch of mowing jobs, like right around

(01:49:30):
his house, and again the same thing where he wouldn't
let them other people pay me, like he wanted me
to do it, and then he'd have those people call
and say they were happy with what I did and
make sure I did the right way, like did you weedie.
I was like, yeah, we need it is like, did
you weeded the right? I was like, coach, are you
I mean about by weeding? Are you fucking kidding me?
It's a hundred and thirty degrees? And then he give

(01:49:52):
me twenty five bucks to cash and you're like, oh,
you know so uh yeah, I mean he was he
was a trip um. Okay, I got give me one
game memory. Here's I got. I got a couple of
game memories, right. I don't know if you remember this.
So we play Kansas State my sophomore year. This was

(01:50:14):
ken You remember when man he dies dunked on Brett
so hard. I saw Brett soul leave his body. It
was it was filthy, right, But if you remember that game,
Case Date wasn't very good. And coach he also had
this thing where, in addition to knowing people who who
to get on and who to lay off, he would

(01:50:34):
kind of know how to push our buttons as a team.
And I can't remember for our senior year or if
it was the sophomore year, but he came in a
halftime in the Kansas Date game. We were playing like shit,
and I was like, oh, he's gonna jump us at
halftime and then he sits down on like the table
like oh, we'll be on oh you know, like totally chilled,

(01:50:55):
and we're all looking around like what the hell we
thought we were gonna get gonna get? So I remember
that just because it was like it was like a
psychological mind fuck, if you will, Like I didn't know
where he was going with that one, right and then
um and then I remember him going crazy. My senior year,

(01:51:16):
we played UT San Antonio. He used to us for
Pete and for Mace. We play those terrible teams right
start of the year. We'd be winning by thirty and
he's running like everything for them. And we come into
locker room after the UT San Antonio game and I
and I was like, coach, why are we running all
this ship for Pete and Mace? He's like you want?

(01:51:38):
Was like yeah, why, He's like, because we played Kansas
and Oklahoma patch who's gonna win us the game? Brother?
And that was his kind of working theory, which is
he wanted you to like we didn't run really you know,
complicated shit, but he wanted, you know, like who is
shooting the ball, where they're shooting the ball, and if
somebody else is open. He was gonna be for a layer.

(01:52:00):
Trying to think of a game. I'll come back to.
Back to my freshman year, something always stuck out to me.
We were terrible. We went into Kansas and he coach
didn't want to be there. You know, we're they had
Paul Pierce, all these superstars, and we were just struggling.
And I think I had twenty seven or twenty eight
just playing, you know, just trying to do the best

(01:52:20):
you can't. I didn't know any better than a freshman,
and I remember running off the court, he kind of
grabbed me, hugged me, and just he whispered in my
ear and he said, he said, told me, hell of
a job. He said, hey, but we got you some
help coming next year, so you keep getting better. And
that right there kind of all because that's the only
time you ever, you know, showed me any kind of
sympathy towards anything. But I remember that moment, and also

(01:52:41):
we're playing Kansas again. On the flip side of that,
he never really got on to me during the game,
but he lost it on me at halftime. I don't
know if y'all remember Paul Pierce was his junior year
he was killing me. Child was yelling at me, coaches
yelling at me, and we never won the game. But
I just remember him jumping on me and just ride
my ass and it didn't work, but I got his point.

(01:53:04):
I just remember that sticking out. But I remember had
any instances with him during the game where he really
got on to me, because I guess I was used
to it. I don't know, but as far as game memories,
of the only things that stick out, and I know
it's one extreme to the next, but that's kind of
what sticked with me always. Well, the Kansas thing I remember,

(01:53:25):
and you guys can attest to this. I think B
and I talked about this PASTI if you remember that
game against Peers and the Friends your junior year, right,
they were my granked fourth in the country, right and uh,
and we were we won the South and we were
supposed to we were picked dead last. And coach comes

(01:53:46):
in the day before the game. I remember, you always
do the line, right, you always do this thing. And
it didn't matter if depending line we were favorites or
we were other dogs. It was we were screwed either
if we're underdogs. And like see Vegas doesn't even think
you're any good. All right, Vegas, Vegas sitting there six

(01:54:07):
points better than you on a floor. Right, and if
your favorites like, oh, Vegas doesn't know anything anything, You
guys are favorite. You guys got the big head because
you looked in the paper and saw your favorite, like
we did. Ever, John look at the paper and saw
the favorite. The rest of us didn't. Anyway, So he
comes in and again I don't know if you guys
remember this, but he goes Smith right before the game. No,

(01:54:30):
it was the day before the game. Man, kids spitter.
We're like, what kids like? They got Pierce friends, they
got you know, they got Nick Gregory. He's like going
to going through a Listen. We're all getting fucking pissed, right,

(01:54:51):
I don't like Robertson. Peat ends up hating Robertson because
he got drafted when he woke up from surgery. Right.
I mean, you know I go up with Chennaw all
these dudes. Right. And but the last thing you want
your coach to say the day before you play Cans
on ABC is they're better than they're better when they
got peers with friends, they're about eight twelve points better.

(01:55:13):
It's like but I coached against boy a long time,
like brother, he's gonna take them both out the same time.
It takes them both out the same time. We're better
than that. And you go back and watch that game.
They'll play it. They play it on whatever ESPN Classic
or whatever they do now, and like news, they play
the classic games. Go back and watch. So we started

(01:55:35):
Tommy Warner that game because the senior night was not
a good decision. Shot that damn thing three times before
you can get him out of the game. Yes, yes,
it was almost time out to get him out. And
I team and I was fucking terrible. And we're down
like twelve to two to start the game, all right,
and the whole place like uh, and they're running us

(01:55:58):
off the court. And then all of a sudden, like
midway through the first half, Hey, here comes those two
gazelles out of the game at the same time. And
we all look at the coach and he's like got
that smirk on Eddie Sutton smirk on his face, like
I told you, don't you gonna take a both out?
And sure enough we're down like I don't know four

(01:56:18):
or five and a half or something, right, and cut
it second half the same shit. But it was more
than like told us what was gonna happen, when it
was gonna happen, how it's gonna happen, and you're like,
holy shit, this guy's right. It was. It was an
amazing thing. Amazing. I also did like that, And I
was never really that guy. I love. I wish I

(01:56:39):
was beating or Mace because those dudes literally never came
out of the game. That's how I want my best Like,
they're my best players. Why would I take him out
of the game? Stupid? And in the big games, those
dudes have played like thirty eight thirty eight minute, So
I be your your favorite. Uh. In game man, Texas
A and m Our senior year, we were rolling, remember

(01:57:03):
I know, but we were. We were rolling up until
that point we going out. I think we were. I
mean we were on a nice little winning streak. We were,
I think we had a two game lead in the
Big twelve. Everything was going right for us. We go
down to A and m They absolutely suck. Remember the
end of the game. Uh, it was just bad, man,
I mean we fell apart. We couldn't execute. Uh. I
missed a like probably three or four front ends of

(01:57:25):
one of ones within the last minute. Uh so we
end up losing. And I remember getting in the locker room,
and you know how we traveled, right, We had the
three vans and then we would we would you know,
we had the three planes that we flew on separately,
and then you know the seniors we all flew. We
all flew with Coach. So and the time, Yeah, I

(01:57:46):
know what you did. I know you didn't well, coaches,
coaches in there, two in our ass, you know, like
all over us. And the only thing I could think
of is like, I mean, I had a badass game.
I didn't flavor as well. So I'm thinking, shit, I
gotta the whole way, the whole timing of this is
gonna be how I get out of the locker room
and I get on one of those bands and I

(01:58:08):
get a good seat so I can be the first
one off the van and the first one out of
the airplane, so I don't have to hit the sit
in the jumper seat across from Coach and Sean because
you know they always sit there. Yeah, you want to
be in the back of the plane. So the whole time,
coaches jumping my ass. You know, you played like shit
you make free throw like all this stuff right, He's
all over us. So we get to the we get

(01:58:29):
to the van and it's a mad dash of the van.
So I get in the van and I'm the last
one in the band, and I'm like, shit, this We know.
We got a ten fifteen minute ride to the airport.
And the whole time, I'm thinking, the last one on
the van means the last one off the van means
I'm sitting across from coaching Sean on the plane ride
home and I didn't play very well. So we get
we get off, we get off. The don't peak. It's terrible.

(01:58:54):
And so here's the thing, man, we get on the plane.
We got on the plane on the that's the one.
I'm the plane man. Yeah, I'm the last one on
the plane. Man. And this this is Coach's effect. He
could just look at you and and he had he
just had that. I don't know what it was, man,
but it was just the way he could look at
you sometimes would would would kind of kill you a

(01:59:16):
little bit, you know. So I get on the plane.
I'm in that jumper seat and there's not a lot
of leg room, and Sean and Coach are sitting across
from me. I'm sitting sidewings, you know, and I've got
my book bag with me, you know, I'm in my
backpack with me and everything else. So I'm I'm, yeah,
I'm searching for something. I'm searching for something to pull out.
So I'm pulling out books and everything. So we take off,

(01:59:37):
and Coaches got his glasses on, you know, and how
he wore him on his nose and the tip of
his nose, and he's got the newspaper spread out right,
and you can't see his face. And then Sean, like
he said, Sean's always staring at the stats. So Sean's
staring at the stats and looking at me with this
bottom lip out, just giving me the death stare, right,
So I try to move, I try to move my feet. Coaches,

(01:59:57):
Coaches got the paper. He can't even see me. I'm
sitting probably four feet across from him. Right. As soon
as I try to move my feet, coach, Coach takes
his feet and puts him in the spot where I
was gonna put him, and then kind of kicks me
out of the way. And then every ten minutes he'd
pull that newspaper down and just stare at me. He'd
stare at me for about thirty seconds, just looking at me,
just look at me. It wouldn't say anything. He just

(02:00:18):
pulls glasses down and stare at me and then put
the newspaper up. So the whole ride back, I'm thinking,
damn this, this is uncomfortable. Man, this is not fun.
What's he thinking? What's gonna happen? So we get back
to Stillwater and we land, and I think Steve Solzer,
one of the managers, comes up to me and they
were like, hey, coach wants to see you first thing

(02:00:38):
in the office tomorrow morning. And I'm like, I'm like, shit,
i gotta go through this whole twenty four hour deal
thinking about what he's gonna say to me and what,
you know, Like like I'm replaying the game. I'm trying
to like figure out what went wrong. I'm trying to
figure out what he's gonna say, what he's gonna do,
everything out. So it was the it was the fact
of like him, him having that power and just that

(02:01:02):
miset and that control sometimes over us to where where
he could get us thinking about things and what he
was gonna say to us and what he was gonna
do to us because we knew, you know, we knew
how demanding he was, you know, and how strict he
was as a coach. But I got in there that
morning and I'm thinking I'm gonna get lit up and
everything else. And it wasn't anything. It was more of
a do better talk, like, hey, let's refocus, you know,

(02:01:24):
let's get your mind right. You know, that game happened,
it was over. But I went through hell for twenty
four hours agonizing over what the hell he was gonna
say to me that next morning. Speaking of the better talk,
those are the most uncomfortable things. And so for people
who don't know what to do. Better talk is coaches
say like, you need to come up to my office

(02:01:45):
have a better talk. And he had this long sofa, right,
and then he'd have all the dominions with all the
assistants lined up, and one would have talked to every
one of your professors. Right, one checked on your like
dorm room. One knew who you were dating and what
you were doing. And then coach and then maybe one
other one was was talking about your workouts and what

(02:02:08):
you've been doing. Right, They talked to the strength coach,
They talked to who you worked out they find out
about your girlfriend or you're dating your professor. They'd searched
your room for boozer, for weed or whatever. Right and
then and then they would all just kill you, kill you,
like make you feel like you're the worst human being
on earth. And then coach like, all right, well listen,
we need to do better. Right, I was all do better.

(02:02:30):
They need to do better. I never so I won't
say the former cowboy's name, but he came after us.
He came after us, and maybe we'll maybe he will
out himself at some point. I don't know if you
guys know the story, but he had to do better

(02:02:53):
talk and they were all crushing him. And you know,
he had like parking tickets, like literally you know again,
and they knew everything. The parking tickets, you name it.
And he's like, what do you have to say for yourself?
And he's like, coach, it's the demon. Yeah. And he's like, oh, well,

(02:03:14):
we'll take it's the demon. They just playing to his jump,
like coach Man, there's so many beautiful there's so many
beautiful girls home in the state. Now I can't just
you know, like I I just I just love it coaching,

(02:03:34):
like you know I'm playing and all these girls are
all into me, and he's like, oh, and I won't
say the guy his name. So he's like, coach, you coach,
don't don't say nothing to nobody, but oh, I'll never
say anything. Right. So I was broadcasting games at that time,
but I know the story. So I'm literally sitting, you know,
like a couple of seats over from the bench, and

(02:03:57):
they're playing at Faylor, and this particular player would do
the thing that would frustrate coach the most, any coach most,
which is you draw up a play that you practiced
and then you come out and you go like, hey, man,
will we in right fun? Would we just talking about
right in? Yo? Yo? Dog? Will we in anyway? Uh?

(02:04:21):
He turned to him in clear his day and like
Baylor wasn't full back then, right, So everybody here, he goes,
don't need to stop thinking of that demon And dude,
coaches on the bench are dying, dying because you know,
he based, he bared his soul that you know, his
junk was getting in trouble because that's all I could
think about. And then coach literally out of him the

(02:04:41):
very next game. That's that that Doe better. Talk was
supposed to be private and confidential. It was never confidential,
never ever, ever, ever, ever, It was all of the demons.
He didn't stop thinking with the demons. Brian knows who
that is. Okay, okay, true story, true, true story. Uh.

(02:05:09):
Obviously he was a good player, yes, huh, he was
a good player. Player, he was a good player. He's
he's a good player, and yeah he was. He's a
good player and a good dude and a funny dude
at that. And I think we all kind of suffered
from that team and complex at some point. Um uh,

(02:05:31):
beat beat. Did you ever see anybody get take care? No? Man, no,
I mean we all had we all worked together, you know,
I mean we all had the same summer job, you
know out there with Rusty Shaw. Um no, man, never, never,
never have I seen anybody get anything or And Coach

(02:05:51):
was always coach. I mean, coach knew everything that was
going on at school, you know, So there's no way
that that would happen under his watch, I believe, you know,
at least I'm I'm what I what I've experienced. There's
there's no way. I mean, you know, you hear of
other things other places, and stuff like that, but not
a not a stillwater, not will coach um. Last thing

(02:06:13):
is this, I think that and you guys have come wrong.
I remember losing the NCAA tournament and feeling like I
let him down, right, Like Brian, you got you were
you were sick, but we were and I end up
getting sick. But Pete, I don't know if you felt
this way when we lost in Indie. But I mean,

(02:06:36):
that's really kind of the power of him, Like you,
I wanted so badly to win for him and for
us more than for myself, you know, Like that's how
kind of close you were, but also how much we
thought of him, even all the all the mental of
his mind games or motivation or whatever he was doing.

(02:06:56):
Like I remember losing our last game, sitting in syracusing
the locker room, going like, man, I let him down,
Like I played bad. We lost and the last time
I'll ever played for him. Did you guys feel that way? Mmmm?
I would say, yeah. Who we played Auburn my senior Yeah, yeah,

(02:07:18):
that was a tough because that was a game we
should have we should have won. I mean we beat Syracuse,
I think, which that was I think that was more
of a challenge, but we should have beat Auburn and
that was it was a letdown for everybody. It was
my senior year, but I mean it was just a game.
We were just a better team than Auburn, I thought,
And I mean it was definitely a letdown coach, because

(02:07:38):
you hear all the time out you know he had
he's never won national title. Not saying we were at
that level, but you're in a term did you never
know what could have happened? I think we were at
that level. The only thing he didn't do that year,
he only did it once was played small, right, because
remember that year we had Glennon and Glenna would screw
everything up because he couldn't guard you right, So we

(02:08:01):
had to put in that matchup zone to try and
hide him. And then Joe got hurt against Kansas and
so he wasn't playing that much. But we played Texas
that year and lost at home, and we had a
big comeback at the end because we played small and
we played Mason at the five. I can you imagine
that team and Mason the five, and essentially that's sort

(02:08:23):
of what we did when Brian became a starter the
next year, right, Brian at times was a five. When
Fred would come out, we'd have Mace at the four whatever.
That was an impossible matchup for dudes. But that that
that was the thing that year was we had. Our
numbers were a little bit off with meet you, Joe
and Glennon and trying and Mace and trying to find

(02:08:45):
minutes for five dudes and Mason still playing the four then,
but to play small that was the only thing in
that year which I thought it could have done. They
didn't do well. Look, man, I love having you guys on.
It was awesome. I'm gonna watch like you all Saturday.
But I will as much as I'll think about him,
I'll think about like all of our crazy shit together.

(02:09:07):
And and it was interesting. You know. Now you're like
twenty years removed or whatever from it, it still feels
like yesterday. And you know, I'm not sure I would
change much anything of it, you know, you know, and
I in with this dug real quick. You know. My
We were up in Lawrence this weekend playing basketball with

(02:09:30):
my son's AU team, and we had a little downtime
so we got to go through Fall Gallon and kind
of hang out in there, and it was it was
really cool man for me to sit with my son
and there's no one in fall Gallon and we're sitting
in there and we're talking about He's asking me questions
like that you played in here? What was it like?
You know? And I brought up the game our junior

(02:09:50):
year when we lost, you know, on the bogus call
from half court. But you know, and then he started
asking about he started asking about time at OSU and
about playing for coach. You know, it was it was
I mean, we spent forty five minutes in there, and
and the thing is is like I feel like, you know,
we were disappointed at the end of our career by
not helping him achieve his ultimate goal of winning the

(02:10:13):
national championship. But I still think, to this day, we
still fight for him. You know, I still think to
this day, you know, when when he would he wouldn't
get the call to be in the Hall of Fame
and things like that, how disappointing it was us, and
how vocal we were, you know, making sure that, you know,
whatever we had to do to get him on the
radar or people keep talking about him to ultimately getting

(02:10:34):
him in the Hall of Fame. You know, I mean,
he's and like I share with my son. I'm like,
I'm like, you know, he he changed me for the better,
not as a basketball player, but but as a person
as a man. I mean, he's opened up doors for me,
you know, with my career and things like that by
playing for him and playing in the structure and playing
in the discipline and going through all the things that
he he put us through over the course of our career,

(02:10:58):
you know. And that's what I told him. I'm like, Man,
if you get an opportunity to play for for someone
like a coach Sutton, and get the opportunity to play
college basketball, it goes by really fast. But the crazy
thing is your memories and your friendship and your bond
with your teammates will be lifelong. Last year, um, And
that's what I'm really appreciated of. You know, i'ven't talked
to Pete in a while, but just you know, seeing
Pete on the call and you know, and you know

(02:11:20):
I keep in contact with you a lot, and talking
to Mace. It just brings back all those memories of
us being together and playing and thinking back of um,
you know, all the all the ups and downs we
had of it. And you know like I, Like you said,
you wouldn't have changed anything. I probably wouldn't have done either.
You know I would have. I would have. I loved
the experience that I had playing for coach and playing
at Oklahoma State. I actually I would have if I

(02:11:42):
could have, if I could do it again, I would
have had more open and honest conversations with him, you know,
and you know it just again if I could, because
those conversations you have when you're done playing for him,
we're so we're so honest. I wish I would have
wish I would have had that. Wish wish I would
have been able to talk and go like, hey, coach,

(02:12:04):
you know, if you just let me shoot open shots
and not take me out like I can manage what happened.
If you said that, would I would have. I would
have paid good money to hear you have that conversation
with him where we were playing, because your ass would
have been sitting. I would have said, I would I
would have tried to negotiate a deal like you wouldn't
have been if I wouldn't. If I just don't take threes,

(02:12:27):
will you not take me out? You know, I just
don't take threes. So but it was it was, it was,
it was pretty special. Yeah, you're you're right? Does it
just does open doors? Like the second you say you
played for him, people like, oh you played pretty Sutton.
Oh hell, that's all here. I'll leave with this and
you guys can test it. He used to say a

(02:12:49):
lot of times, really shitty long practices. When he'd be rambling,
he'd say, you think this is hard. If you can
do this, you can do anything, correct. You know what. Yep,
I'm been through Pete. You've been through some shit right
in your career. Bee, You've been through a bunch of shit.
I've been through it all. And you know what, he

(02:13:11):
was right, nothing harder, nothing more rewarding. And oh yeah,
by the way, it actually prepares you for life, which
is kind of how I try and coach kids now,
which is like, hey, if I if I'm super easy
on you and I tell you like it's okay to
not do something, then I'm I'm feeling and you know,

(02:13:33):
preparing you not just for high school or college basketball,
but for life, you know. And so you know, he
can't make us perfect people, but he did prepare us
for the hard times in life, right, right, Hey, I
love you guys. I gotta I gotta go. I got
a radio show. You're the best. I'll catch up with
you both, uh really shortly. And thanks thanks for doing

(02:13:54):
this for him. I'll let you guys. All right, Yeah,
that was a lot of fun. Um all right. I
wanted to back end this with a little discussion about
the NBA. As Lebron still struggles to recover from the
high ankle spraining, the Lakers look like they're destined for
the playing game. I don't think that's the death knell

(02:14:17):
to the Lakers, Like I understand that they're kind of
mojo was down a couple of days ago, but now
that Anthony Davis is back humming and playing well, Granted,
you want Lebron to be right. You wanted to be
in game shape, and it's gonna be really hard to
have him start playing against the Pacers and then have
them ready to go for the playing playing games. But

(02:14:37):
and you play completely differently when you play with Lebron.
Is the closed to playing without Lebron? That said, I
don't I don't think Phoenix can beat him. I think
they're Phoenix. It's a bad matchup for Phoenix. And with
that in mind. I'm very much intrigued, very much intrigued
by the idea that Phoenix should have done everything they

(02:15:00):
kid to avoid the Lakers as they can. The Lakers
keep winning games, could they potentially climb out of the
playing game? They could? Will they probably not? But I
think that's not the worst news in the world that
the reason they don't want to be in those playing
games is really really simple. It's the it's the wear

(02:15:20):
and tear on their bodies, not necessarily anyone game or
anyone's series. The wear and tear on their bodies is
going to be really really really tough, really tough, but
not the not a death knell by anyone's estimation, anyone's
So I think the Lakers are still I don't want

(02:15:40):
to say good to go, but a A if you
want to say they're a favorite, no one's going to
argue with you because they want it last year and
on paper, very good talent, and they're trying to figure
out how to use drumming and a d together. Now
they got to have drumming and Lebron and ad together
as well as what do they do with Kuzuma, how
do they play a shrewder? What a shooter, look like

(02:16:01):
when they get to the playoffs. Remember they badly needed
Rondo last year, and Shrewder is more talented and younger
than Rondo. But Rondo's lived through it and done it,
kind of been through it, you know, been there, done
that sort of deal. And so with that mind, I
do think that there's a lot of unknown with Dennis

(02:16:21):
Shrewder and how he's going to play here late in
this late in the season and into the playoffs, and
especially he's gonna be coming off a quarantine shutdown or
COVID shutdown. That's the only thing it could be. Health
and safety protocols translate roughly into that. Like, that element
to it is really interesting. But the Lakers and the Suns,
I don't like. I love the Lakers if in fact

(02:16:44):
they match up against the Suns, which it feels like
they're on a collision course with. All right, well, listen,
enjoy this weekend's Hall of Fame festivities. Remember when you
watch Eddie Sutton get inducted, some of the stories and
thoughts of my teammates and our experience in playing for
a legend. Hope you enjoyed it. I'm Doug Gottlie. This
is all ball. Are you ready for the big day

(02:17:26):
not your big day, her big day Valentine's Day. If not,
you better rush to FTD dot com to order early
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All Ball - Eddie Sutton Stories with Former Players Desmond Mason, Adrian Peterson and Brian Montonati

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}All Ball - Eddie Sutton Stories with Former Players Desmond Mason, Adrian Peterson and Brian Montonati