In this episode, Doug explains why he thinks LeBron is punching down by caring about people who still don't respect him, and is joined by NBA Champion and former Loyola Marymount Head Coach Paul Westhead to discuss the tragic death of Hank Gathers, his revolutionary run 'n gun philosophy, transitioning to the WNBA, rookie Magic's final heroics, how he ended up playing center in the Finals, establishing a relationship with Kareem, and his new book The Speed Game. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts!
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Remember all those big dreams used to have and then
life made other plans. With a Mercedes Benz sprinter Van,
It's time to bring those dreams back, start your own
business or commit to van life with a Mercedes Benz
sprinter Van. Now you could win the Mercedes Benz sprinter
Mode four by four that we have entered the Dan
Patrick Show Ultimatecamping Rigs Sweepstakes. To enter get official rules,
(00:22):
visit dan Patrick dot com or Foxsports Radio dot Com.
Have to do it by February second for your chance
to win. If you love to be remembered as the
person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to
tell you that one eight hundred flowers dot com is
your ultimate birthday gifting destination. One eight hundred flowers has
thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver
(00:45):
the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at
one hundred flowers dot com for exclusive offers and great values.
To order today, visit one hundred flowers dot com. Slash
tune in. That's one hundred flowers dot com. Slash tune in. Hey,
(01:08):
what up? Welcome in. I'm Doug Godliban. This is the
All New All Ball. We took a slight diversion with
our last episode Lil Wayne joined us. It was awesome.
You can steal download and listen to that one. UM
we have a great special guest this week or in
this episode. Start pumping out multiple UM episodes per week. Hopefully.
(01:28):
Our guest this week is Paul Westhead. Can Paul Westead
of course, the legendary coach led the Lakers to an
NBA title. He led loyal La merriamount to was three
NCAA tournaments, including in Elite eight, and famously coached Bou Bou,
Kimball and Hank Gathers, also Jeff Fryer and Tom Peabody
(01:49):
a bunch of other dudes. But um, so we'll talk
to him about the Speed Game. That's his new book
and it talks about teaching tea guys teams to play fast.
I think you'll really really enjoy that interview. Let me
start though, as we're a couple of days removed from
the NBA Finals in the NBA Championship, and I did
(02:10):
hear Lebron James say I want some respect and I
just I don't know you. I think he's great. What
happens when in our world now of sports is either
somebody's the best or you're a hater. You're like, all right,
Like I many parts of his game. I haven't necessarily
(02:33):
loved some. He's improved some he hasn't, right, like that
post game that gave the fadeaway jump shot that's kind
of disappeared. He doesn't really have a middle game. He's
developed a step back jump shot, and he's obviously developed
into being a more than capable open three point shooter.
He's improved his shooting, but like, look, this is like, oh, well,
(02:54):
you know, Cindy Crawford has a mole, right, you're talking
about award on a on a supermodel lebron. J is
an incredible player. Doesn't move as well defensively throughout the
entire game or in back to back games, but can
clearly really really defend and can dominate a game. I
have no I'm not going to pick apart his game
(03:15):
in any way. My whole thing with Jordan is that
Jordan was a sheer force of will, Like he had
to find a way to win, and once he found it,
figured out how to win, there was literally no stopping him.
You know, I know, he I saw when he lost
to the Orlando Magically. He lost the basketball and he
wasn't sharp. He didn't look like a good ball handler.
(03:37):
And I understand that players I do think have more
well rounded skill set bases now, but the game is
very different. It's much less physical. There's no power forwards.
Sometimes there's no centers in the game. So instead of
comparing eras, I will just tell you that for his era,
I felt like Jordan was more thorough and completely dominant.
There was no discussion over who the best player in
the game is. And I think if we were honest,
(03:59):
we would say that Lebron didn't go against the full
field as Durant was hurt. Steph and Clay weren't in it.
They had both been hurt this year, um, and you know,
he never had to face off with the honest although
Janie is not nearly close in terms of, you know,
being completely refined, and they got an incredibly favorable matchup
along the way to face Kauai, who has done a
(04:21):
great job on Lebron in the past. So with all
that in mind, I'm not taking shots of Lebron. What
I don't love is the why would you ever have
a need for respect. You know, who are we trolling?
Why does it matter that these are This is the
(04:43):
real mistake that Lebron makes is dignifying anybody he feels
like is disrespectful to his level of success. That that's
that's punching down. I want some respect, Like, the only
people you think are disrespecting you are people whose opinions
shouldn't ador And look, there's plenty of former players that
(05:05):
opinions I think do matter that would prefer Jordan or
their era to Lebron. And maybe that's what he's talking about.
But when you say respect, it feels like you're giving
credibility to TV shows and radio shows, even mine. And
I'm very reasonable, Like people forget that. In the early
eighties it was Larry Bird Matt Johnson say the league
(05:26):
they deserve to be in any discussion of the top
five players in the modern history of the game. So
too does Michael Jordan, so too does Lebron James. And
then you gotta go, Okay, do we go Tim Duncan
who won all those titles? Do we do Kobe Bryant
who had his want all his titles? Like, what do
we do? I don't know all I can tell you
is that if somebody wants to put me in a
list of the two best players in the history of
(05:48):
the sport or the ten best players in the history
of the sport, I think that's pretty respectful. And I
think any I think asking for respect feels like some
unneeded insecurity being being outed that he clearly shouldn't have. Nonetheless,
we should respect Lebron James. Like the four NBA titles
are special. I know, we can't compare because no superstar
(06:10):
players ever bounced to three or actually four different teams, really,
if you kind of get down to it, so this
whole well, no one's won three with three different like
I got you, I got you, But no, you know,
Kareem bounced to two teams. Shack bounced to a couple
of different teams, obviously, took two to the NBA finals.
Couldn't get the Calves to the finals when he was
(06:32):
a bit player with Lebron or the Sons to the
NBA finals, So that would be the only only parallel there.
And Chack didn't take care of himself the way that
Lebron took care of himself. But to me, the the
NBA playoffs and the bubble was about his leadership, his
ability to get guys to totally buy into why they
(06:52):
were there, and coaching, I mean thinking how much play
the use of zones, Like Miami couldn't run a zone
against the Lakers. They just sliced in easted right, But
they would not have gotten to the finals without the
use of his zone. Oh yeah, by the way, the
Lakers and their adjustment for you know, quick doubling, James
Harden getting it out of his hand before you could
get into his game. Like again, all of these things
(07:14):
are coaching and and even getting the Lebron to buy
into whatever the defensive schemes were from the Lakers. That
that's coaching. Now, some of that is Lebron being coachable
and then you know, leading and getting ways to get
motivate Anthony Davis and all their whole team to play
at a super high level defensively. But I kind of
feel like coaching gets undersold in the reason the Lakers
(07:36):
became the best team in the NBA won an NBA championship.
Let's let's speak of the Lakers winning a championship. Let's
welcome him in. He is a longtime college and NBA
and w NBA champion head coach Paul Westhead joins us.
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific on
(07:58):
Fox Sports Radio. The iHeart Radio app Let's Welcome. In
the book is called The Speed Game, My Fast Times
in Basketball. Paul Westhead is my guest. Um, there's a
lot of places people could start, but I want to
start at a place that that is really most interesting
(08:18):
to me. So I apologize, coach, if it's not where
you want to begin. Um. I had I had seen
Hank Gathers in both kimball playing a pickup game at
cal State Northridge the summer before Hank's finals, Hank and
Bost final season together for you at lot La Merrimount,
and I was a kid from Orange County. I was
(08:40):
kind of blown away by this kind of bigger than
life mythical player. And I had known how you guys
had played, watching guys in the NCA tournament the two
previous years. So then fast forward to the WCC tournament
and Hank passes out. What now we're like thirty years later,
(09:01):
what memories do you have of that night? Well? Uh,
you know, I saw what everyone else saw that he
made us gigantic slam dunk, turned to get back on defense,
got almost the half court and collapsed then and you
(09:22):
know we lost them. I mean, there's nothing that even
thirty years later mix up for that. It's it was
a devastating time for me, for the team, for his family.
And there's something stug you just sunk it over and
that that happens to be one of them. Yeah, I'm
(09:43):
that's actually what's what most intrigues me. Because I went
to the next game. It was at Long Beach Arena.
He played Mexican State. And to this, to this day,
I tell people my love for college basketball. I had
loved it before that, my dad take me to games
the NCAA tournaments. I loved it after that and I
played in it. But the moment to me was, you
guys came running out and there's maroon everywhere in forty
(10:05):
four is everywhere, and then Bo gets fouled, and all
of a sudden, he takes three dribbles with his right hand,
switches to and then he makes it. He makes it.
So I mean like out of a movie. Um, okay,
so how like, look, this is a kid whose parents
trusted you write he transfers over from USC and he
(10:28):
trust you, and the kids trust you with this style
that obviously they he benefited greatly from. But it is frenetic.
It is different, the level of conditioning. It was obscene
what you guys are doing. I want to get into that,
but but you lose him there on the floor. How
did you get that group together? What did you say?
What did you do? How do you not because you're
dealing with your own emotions, I'm wondering how you did that? Yeah, well,
(10:52):
you know, we we had some hard times together. Immediately
after Hanks passing, they had a ceremony I had Loyal
and Mary, Matt and garstin Marina where the whole campus
was there and players and I were in attendance. And
then we all flew back to Philadelphia for the official
(11:14):
funeral his his mom's church. And then we returned and
the players came to me. I to be honest, I said, like,
if we just want to end it here, that's fine,
and they said, no, we want to play and we
(11:35):
want to play for Hank. So we started. We had
a couple of practices, went to Long Beach and and
launched and it's just a little perspective. They played better
than they ever did or could have. And it's kind
of interesting. You can say they played for Hank, but
(11:59):
they were playing kind of for themselves. They wanted to
kind of get away from all of the sorrow. So
plane was, you know, two hours of relief from the
other parts of the day that you were in Greek
listn't how you always played when you won an NBA
(12:20):
championship with the Lakers, but what you did took the
world of basketball by absolute storm. And what I remember,
like one of the games, I remember had seventy two
at the half, and I remember my dad, who had
coach Oregon State, he told me at the time after
the game, He's like, you know what happens is everybody's
(12:42):
scored in the first half, they feel great and they're like,
this is easy, and then they hit a wall in
the second half and they can't make a shot, they
can't dribble the camp pass, they can't make a layup,
and you guys end up conditioning kind of wins the day.
So just the style of how you played later in
your career, Loila Merrymount to the Denver Nuggets, when you
pressed and you ran. How did you formulate that style
(13:06):
in your mind or in a discussion with other coaches? Well, I,
you know, through the seventies, when I was at LaSalle University,
and and through my professional careers with the Lakers and
Chicago Bulls and then ultimately Loyal and Merriamount, I was
(13:26):
always a running coach, and I believe in in the
quick shot. I believe it makes more sense to run
the ball down and beat the defense. I mean, why
why play five on five when if you go fast en,
if you can play five one three, I mean, it's
a lot easier. So I did for those reasons. But
(13:49):
it wasn't until all the Merry Mount until hankin Bow
and Corey Gaines and Tom Peabody all showed up together,
all transferring from the different parts of the country, all
la kids. Dad, I said, well, I'm going to run,
but I have to do something to make the other
team run. So that's when we employed a full court
(14:13):
man and man press. And the press was good enough,
or if you want to look at it another way,
weak enough that you shot the ball in five seconds
like we were shooting the ball in five seconds. So
kind of accidentally, I created the perfect scenario. We shooting five,
(14:35):
You shooting five. Do that for forty minutes and see
how you feel our players could sustain that the opposition.
Many times we're doing well by halftime and then would
ultimately crack. And our guys knew that was going to happen.
How do you condition for something like that, for that
(14:56):
style of play? Yeah, I mean we did some prec
and things. We you know, we did some running. We
actually ran the sand dunes in Manhattan Beach that It's
really quite a challenge my memory is, and I did
it once myself. It's about, oh, it seems like a
(15:19):
mile straight up, but it's probably a few hundred yards,
but you have to run straight uphill and sand dunes
and and very difficult. So our guys kind of saw
that as a challenge. We didn't do it every day.
We did it a couple of times before October, but honestly, Doug,
(15:41):
the way you get conditioned to run the fast break
like we did and press, you have to do it
every day in practice. I mean I was not a
stand around coach who would stop play and give a
two minute explanation on how to defend the pick and roll.
Those two minutes were twenty five possessions wasted for me.
(16:04):
So I played the speed game in every drill, and
therefore the players, they were very acclimated to playing NonStop. Yeah,
and then you get, as you described, you get a
team playing a style that your kids practice and play
every day, and they play once or twice a year,
and so they're kind of discombibulated. While it feels good
(16:26):
to be that free and playing that fast, when you're
not used to it, you start to make errors, you do,
you get out of you lose your wind, and then
you start teams to also start playing their benches and
guys that didn't normally play are thrust in there. And
now that the strength of your death ends up becoming
a factor, I mean, the teams get so tired. I
don't know if we had a game where we played
(16:50):
LSU with the Shafield deal since at a NIKEE clinic
and he said, you know, coach, we had one of
our point cards, but about eight minutes ago in a game,
he was so tired that he was coming down with
the ball and on purpose threw it out of bounds
(17:13):
to cause a turnover so he could get his perpetio
and relax. He would do anything. They would do anything
to stop the play. And we've had occasions with teams
that did the old football trick where if a team's
playing so fast in football, you fake an injury and
(17:34):
you're on the ground and then three minutes later they
start playing again. We had teams that would do that
to us too. They would kind of fall down and
act like they're hurt, and you know they weren't hurt
because a minute later after they came out, they were
back in the game. But for our guys, it was enjoyable.
I mean, they love playing fast, They love that speed game.
(17:58):
They thrived on it. Will say to you, Doug, and
this is part of my book. There are a lot
of coaching jobs that I had that it didn't work. Yeah,
that players didn't accept it, that said this is crazy,
that said after ten days of practice, players only meeting,
(18:19):
like we got to get rid of this is someone
you love in a relationship with somebody who tells the
same joke over and over, somebody who has the audacity
to starfish the bed. Now, be honest, is that somebody
you look me Andy's nose. Relationships aren't perfect. That's why
they're celebrating imperfectly perfect matches with their new Valentine's Day collection.
(18:40):
Starting now and for a limited time only, New me
Andy's customers get twenty five percent off matching pairs and
free shipping. Express your one of a kind relationship when
you match your bottom half to your better half in
fun limited edition prints. If you're single, mingle in matching
pairs with your friends or fam you can even get
dog hoodies or buddy bands to match your four legged bff.
(19:01):
Be sure to check out all of meandi sustainably soft undies, socks, brawletts, loungeware,
and more, available in sizes extra small to four xl
Get twenty five percent off your first order of matching
pairs plus free shipping at meudes dot com slash V
Day twenty five. That's Meandies dot com slash V Day
twenty five. What grows in the forest trees? Sure no
(19:26):
one else grows in the forest. Our imagination, our sense
of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when
we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect
with each other. The forest is closer than you think.
Find a forest near you and start exploring. I discover
(19:46):
the Forest dot org brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the ad Council. And we're live
here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for them.
And there they go, almost on time. This morning, Mom
is coming off the front door strong with a double
armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter
is bringing up the rear. Oh but the diaper bag
(20:09):
wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom
has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.
And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about
nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.
Dad zips the bag clothes and they're off, But looks
like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on
(20:30):
the roof of the car, and there it goes. Oh,
that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't
sweat the small stuff, just nail the big stuff, like
making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right
seat for their agent's eyes. Learn more at NHTSA dot gov.
Slash the Right Seat visits NHTSA dot gov. Slash the
Right Seat brought to you by NITZA and the ad Council.
(20:53):
So that was that. The Nuggets, I mean, what what
what didn't it work with dah No not not the
Nuggats so much. The Nuggets were answers group of guys.
They they were a depleted team. They Alex English and
everybody all left almost at the same time. So we
had some some young players and some leftovers and U
(21:13):
and I say leftovers, they're delightful leftovers. But I had
Orlando Woolridge and Walter Davis, but they were well at
the end of their career, like thirty five going up.
So we had a nice group of guys. So they
really tried their their darkness to keep this space. They
(21:34):
had trouble with the defense. See I I was foolish enough.
That's why I got fired fourteen out of twenty jobs.
I was foolish enough to try and pull it off.
The NBA guys, they might think about running the break
deep down players don't really want to run. I'm sure
(21:56):
you're a little bit aware of that. I mean, they'll
steal the ball and make a fast break, but they
do not want to go up and down, up and down,
up and down. In five seconds. It's it's against you know,
almost the Union rule, and for sure they don't want
a full court press. And I can remember practicing and
(22:17):
in games having Walter Davis and Orlando Woolwids being the
back two of my press. But I wanted them to
come forward when the ball was inbounded into the action,
you know, get in the mix of things. And they continually,
when the ball got passed in backed up and I said,
come on, Walter and oh you and he said, Coach,
(22:41):
we're covering for you. We're covering for you, man. We
don't want you to look bad. Well, they might have
been doing that, but they really didn't want to run.
That was the real bottom line. It's easier to back
up on defense, and it's easier to take your time
on offense than sprint on offense and play full court defense.
(23:02):
It's very difficult to do. That's fascinating. Um, Okay, what
was it like to go from coaching the world of
the NBA to then coaching women both in college and professionally.
What is that like in terms of not just your style,
but the way in which you approach approach coaching your players. Yeah,
(23:24):
I take the Phoenix Mercury job. A couple of things happened.
But when I go to start and sign a contract,
I fly in from LA to Phoenix, and who's at
the airport at the gate waiting for me is Diana Tassi.
(23:46):
So I can only say to you, Doug, there's a
difference of all the teams I coach, especially the pro teams.
One of the players ever waiting for me at the airport.
Some of them took me to the airport, had to
say goodbye. So anyway, we go to the arena. It
was going to be a little press conference, and she
says to me, coach, I know what you do, and
(24:11):
don't water anything down. Give us exactly what you have
done to the men. We want you to treat us
the same. So I did. I mean, I deployed the
press and run, and they gravitated to the fast break
(24:33):
in a great manner. They were good, and they got
better and better and better. The full court defense they tried,
but it they crumbled. And I was getting smart enough
to say, well, let's play a little half court zund
once in a while. But they were terrific with the
(24:54):
running game. Doug. I had a point guard, a young
lady named Kelly Miller. Her first practice we got her
in a trade. Her first practice said Kelly, I want
you to push the ball as fast as you can
on the dribble down the other end on offense. Every
time she said, I can do that. Well, every practice,
(25:15):
every drill, every game, no matter what the score, Kelly
Miller pushed that ball all the way down. So she
was she was the engine that got everybody going. And
to ROSSI just fell in line. And I had Kathy Pondexter,
who was a tough minded girl from Chicago, Penny Taylor.
(25:39):
I just had a good team. And we're jumping around.
But I'll tell you one thing. I realized. It took
me twenty eight years after I won with the Lakers
in the NBA. Took me twenty eight years to get
another championship. And I realized you have to have very
very good players in order to win. Sometimes you can
(25:59):
have a good players and you still don't win. But
if you have the very good ones like Tarassi and
Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabbar, you got a good shot.
You mentioned Magic and Kareem. Obviously you went an NBA
title and that was when famously Magic had to start
at center for you, right, Yes, we take take me
(26:20):
back before before that game, what was the discussion like
in the locker room between your coaches and with you
and Magic? Well, it's funny you say that. I'll start
with when you said discussion with your coaches. I know
today there's a little about eleven guys that get into
his coaches discussion and have input and analytics and all
kinds of stuff. At that moment, there was me and
(26:43):
one other coach. It happened to be pat Riley. That's it.
So there wasn't you know, a big coaches meeting. The
game five, which put us up three two, Kareem Abdul
Jabbar was injured. He came back and played the last
(27:04):
quarter with a severely injured ankle. We finished the game
one and Kareem doesn't come on the trip with us.
That's why we know we have to do something about it.
So we're on a flight back to Philadelphia. We're flying
commercial now, no private planes or anything. And I say
(27:24):
to Magic, I said, can you could you play center?
And he says, sure, no problem. He said, you know,
I was a center in high school. And if you
look at his background, it was only two years ago.
He played in high school then he played one year
at Michigan State, and now here he is, you know,
a rookie. So you know, we have one little shoot
(27:47):
around practice and now we're going to play the game.
I can still remember a game time. We're about to
go out and my other the biggest player in the
starting lineup, Jim Jones. It's like and foot, a big
strong man, says to me, coach, So I'm jumping center, right,
I said, no, we talked about this. Magic is going
(28:11):
to jump center, So I mean I did it kind
of symbolically, like here is Kareem's replacement for this game.
So we get our first possession, we throw the ball
to Magic. He just on his own, goes down into
the low post, takes a little sky hook kind of
(28:33):
jump hook, it goes in, and then he does anything
and everything guard forward center and he gets forty two points.
But we didn't really have many choices Doug and Magic
smiled and said, yeah, I can, I can do it.
What was Kream like to coach you? Yeah, Kareem was
(28:54):
a special guy. It's interesting. When I arrived from Los Angeles,
I went right to a kind of a workout practice,
and I was the assistant coach. Jack McKinney, my good friend,
was the head coach, and I walked in and he said, yeah,
we're working some guys out. He said, Kareem's down the
(29:14):
other end. Why don't you go down and work out
with him? So I walked down and I said hello,
and he kind of nodded. I think he said hello.
It wasn't a big conversation, and he said, why don't
you feed me the ball? So I was like in
the baseline area feeding him in the low post. I
fed him about twenty passes. He made all twenty shots,
(29:41):
threw the ball back to me after the twenty and
said thank you very much. And I said, oh, okay,
and I went back to McKinney. I said, hell, this
is easy, you know. You know, he just just passed
the guy the ball and he makes shots and it's over.
Well that was kind of the start of my relationship
with Kareem. Since then we really got along. I learned
(30:03):
one thing by instinct. You don't want to try and
tell Kareem something about basketball. You know, you kind of
maybe might suggest some things, but you're not gonna say, hey,
you know, I think if you drop your right foot
you'll be better. He would look at you like and no, no, no, no.
So I learned that quick enough and we got along
(30:28):
very well. I think more because of limited things I
said to him rather than trying to over coach him.
And I do recall one time in training camp, and
this is a tribute to him. It was our first
practice and I tried to impress the guys that we're
going to really work hard this year. So we had
(30:50):
a two hour practice and then like a good old
college coach, I said, okay, get on the lines and
we're going to run the lines. I mean, I don't
know what you your dad called it, but he called suicide.
He called murder. Yeah, yes you. So we're going down
and back down and back down and back. So we
do a whole set and it's over and the players
(31:11):
walk one way to the locker and I'm walking the
other way and Kareem comes over, puts his arm around me,
and he says, Paul, I don't do murder. And that
was it. So I went back to my room. We're
going to have another practice. That's when you could have
two a days. And he was saying to me, I
(31:35):
hope you're smart enough to know don't do them again. Yes,
and I never did so to his credit though he
did it the first time. And I don't know if
you picked up on it, but I did. He said
to me, Paul, Yes, you know, he never called the coach. Oh,
can you see him? There's probably only only one coach
right now. There was only one coach. It was John
(31:57):
Wooden and the rest of it. I played for him,
and I wish I would have had this conversation with
you before I played for him, because we we butted
heads a ton, and it was it was it was
an interesting experience. I find him to be a brilliant guy.
But but but he's he is not and even though
he's a great orator, he's not necessarily a great communicator
(32:18):
as a coach, which are two very very different things.
Is as you know, I will say, after I got
fired from the Lakers, Yeah, and I went home, you know, devastated.
And that's another whole series. I probably the best. I'm
the best coach in America to talk to coaches who
get fired, because I've been fired fourteen times. But the
(32:40):
Lakers job was the first one, right, and the first
one you take it personal. And I drive home to
my wife and my kids, and they're the kids are crying.
My wife is upset, and I'm home maybe half an
hour and the phone rings. This is before cell phones.
(33:00):
The phone rings. I pick it up and it's Kareem
Abdul Jabbar, who says, coach, I'm really sorry. You know
I wasn't involved with any of this, and I feel
bad for you. So what what happened was it was
you got cross Magic or oh I have I have
(33:21):
no idea. I mean, there there wasn't an issue in
the game before I got fired with Magic Johnson and I.
But I think ultimately Magic and that incident created some
of the issues. But I would not blame him. I
(33:41):
think the management and Jerry Buss, Uh, you know, did
what they felt they needed to do so and if
I and again I was I'm so I'm at that point,
I'm so young that all I know is based upon
what I was told and read and said. Magic was
really close to Jerry Buss, maybe too much more so
than any player and owner have ever been. Right at
(34:03):
that point in time, Magic, You're very young, and you
know Jerry Buss tried to act what he thought was
in his best interest, but it's it just it's kind
of an interesting what is I think getting fired is
one thing. Obviously, if you coach long enough, it's going
to happen to anybody. How hard is it, though, to
watch their success and be like, wait, that was it
(34:25):
should have been me? That it should have been me?
And oh yeah, by the way, the way which they
played showtime your former assistant pat Riley, like, that's how
he played, They played fast? So what what? What is
that like emotionally to process all these years later, as
you move on, as I moved to other jobs, when
I as I moved to Chicago Bulls and the Denver
(34:48):
Nuggets and and different teams, I realized that when you
get fired, it's not personal. It's not like you're the
bad guy. It's that it's business. The team has made
the decision that they need to try something different, and
(35:12):
you're the easy out. I did find in the NBA
very difficult to get rid of players and their contracts.
So if the ship isn't sailing the way you like,
it's much easier to say goodbye to the captain of
the ship and get someone new. So I have a
(35:35):
much better perspective, and I will say this Jerry Buss
fired me. But Jerry Buss was the best owner I've
ever had. And I say that because he did anything
he could to get players. You know. He In fact,
this was before the salary captain. We needed a rebound
(35:57):
er after we won a championship and then the next
year we faltered a little bit. And he said, who's
the best free agent out there to help you? And
I said, Miss cup Check is the best free agent
that we need. He said, I'll get him. I said, well,
you know what, really he said, I'll go to the vault.
(36:18):
I will get miss cup Check for if that's what
you want, I'll get him. So you can't do any better,
especially if you're a professional coach, to have an owner
that will do anything it takes to get the best player.
I marvel at you know. Now his daughter Jeanie, who
(36:39):
my recollection is, she was maybe a ten eleven year old,
maybe a preteen girl. I'd see occasionally. She did the
same thing. She went out and got Anthony Davis. And
therein lies the whole difference. You know, get the right
(36:59):
play and put them in with what you have, and
Davis and Lebron the nobody's gonna beat them in seven games. No, no, nobody,
nobody did well, Coach. I can't wait to read the
entirety of the book. It's called The Speed Game. I
fast times in basketball. I know there's a ton of
stories done a basketball or I can only tell you
as a guy who loves the sport, I got a
chance to play. I love watching your teams play your
(37:21):
unique style, and I'm gonna I would I would argue
with you to the death though, I would love to
play that because I can't imagine how many assists I
could have gotten playing players like to play fast No, no, no,
no, no no, I love no, I love it. Yeah, I know,
but trust me, I've had teams that I have. My
first meeting, I say, okay, now we're going to fast
break this year, and who's in favor? And you know,
(37:44):
all twelve guys raise their hands, you know, and then
after about six practices, if you ask the same question,
might have two. I would be one. I would be
one of those two. I would be one of those
one of those two. Yeah. Well, well, if I had you, Doug,
you'd be in the Speed Game. Then you'd be in
this this book and that. You can get it on
(38:07):
Amazon dot com right now it's available. But I just
hope that people realize how hard it is to run
this one. It's because players want to play steady as
it goes. They they say they want to play fast.
They don't want to play fast. It's too hard. Hey, coach,
(38:30):
thanks so much for joining us. Congrats on the book
and can't wait to read it insent entirety. Get right
to the romance and find the way to wow this
Valentine's with one hundred Flowers dot com. From classic roses
and bouquets to decadent chocolate covered berries, gourmet treats and more.
Surprise your Valentine with one hundred flowers dot com right now.
Get the eighteen stem enchanted rose metally for thirty nine
(38:53):
nine nine, or upgrade to twenty four red roses for
ten dollars more. Go to one hundred flowers dot com
slash two tune in. That's one eight hundred flowers dot
com slash tune in. If I could be you and
you could be me for just one hour, if you
could find a way to get inside each other's mind.
Walk a mile in my shoes, Waco mile in my shoes, shoes.
(39:18):
We've all felt left out, and for some that feeling
lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn
how it belonging begins with us dot org brought to
you by the Act Council. Welcome mile in machine. Look
through your children's eyes to see the true magic of
a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look
(39:41):
and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of
a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see
treasure in pebbles, They see a windy path that could
lead to adventure, and they see you there, fearless guide.
Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and
start exploring at over the Forest dot org brought to
(40:01):
you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council.
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific. My
thanks to Paul west Ed what a really insightful guy.
Interesting book speed game. You can pick it up on
Amazon whoever you pick up books. A quick reminder of
the Doug Gotlip Shows daily three to sixth Eastern time,
(40:24):
twelve to three Pacific. If you miss it, you can
download the podcast wherever you download podcast. Obviously this All
Ball we were pretty big fans of, but Little Wine
joined us in the last one. You can still download
that one, download, sub subscribe, and don't forget to rate us.
I think we got a chance of something pretty special
over the next couple of years in college basketball, as
(40:47):
guys are going to get a chance to get an
extra year of eligibility and not count against the thirteen
scholarship of living. College basketball to me has been not
just watered down because there's so many teams and so
many conferences and everything's on TV, but because guys just
leave too early. They just do and we don't, and
they transfer so much we don't know whose where. Like
(41:08):
I've done this for twenty years and I got to
do a much better review nowadays than I used to
because everybody transfers or goes to the pros. But with
the extra year of eligibility, has a chance to reset
reset the market. Mo Yeah, by the way, the g
leagues in major trouble. This is a great move by
the NCAA and one that could help kind of regenerate
(41:30):
some interest into college basketball as we regenerate the depth
of talent because teams had really become watered down losing
entire teams on a year to year basis. All right,
we got great interviews up coming on future all Balls.
Thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to download subscribe
rate Listen to the Doug Gotlip Show Daily. I'm Doug Gotlieben.
This is All Ball. Hi, I'm fall from Progressive. Being
(42:12):
a baseball fanatic like me can be stressful. It's not
all sports points and touchdowns. So Progressive is going to
help you take your mind off your team for a moment.
Instead of thinking about how they missed that goal points score,
think about the name your price tool from Progressive, letting
you choose coverage options based on your budget, unlike your
team that missed the end zone net area. Well, anyway,
I hope this distraction about Progressive's name your Price Tool
(42:33):
was helpful. It sure kept me from thinking about all
those penalty balls. Yeah, Sports, Progressive Cancialty in Terns Company
and Affiliates, priceon Coverage Match Limited Divice Neate Law
Remember all those big dreams used to have and then
life made other plans. With a Mercedes Benz sprinter Van,
It's time to bring those dreams back, start your own
business or commit to van life with a Mercedes Benz
sprinter Van. Now you could win the Mercedes Benz sprinter
Mode four by four that we have entered the Dan
Patrick Show Ultimatecamping Rigs Sweepstakes. To enter get official rules,
(00:22):
visit dan Patrick dot com or Foxsports Radio dot Com.
Have to do it by February second for your chance
to win. If you love to be remembered as the
person who gives the best birthday gifts, I'm here to
tell you that one eight hundred flowers dot com is
your ultimate birthday gifting destination. One eight hundred flowers has
thoughtful and artfully created options that are guaranteed to deliver
(00:45):
the best birthday surprise. Shop thousands of unique gifts at
one hundred flowers dot com for exclusive offers and great values.
To order today, visit one hundred flowers dot com. Slash
tune in. That's one hundred flowers dot com. Slash tune in. Hey,
(01:08):
what up? Welcome in. I'm Doug Godliban. This is the
All New All Ball. We took a slight diversion with
our last episode Lil Wayne joined us. It was awesome.
You can steal download and listen to that one. UM
we have a great special guest this week or in
this episode. Start pumping out multiple UM episodes per week. Hopefully.
(01:28):
Our guest this week is Paul Westhead. Can Paul Westead
of course, the legendary coach led the Lakers to an
NBA title. He led loyal La merriamount to was three
NCAA tournaments, including in Elite eight, and famously coached Bou Bou,
Kimball and Hank Gathers, also Jeff Fryer and Tom Peabody
(01:49):
a bunch of other dudes. But um, so we'll talk
to him about the Speed Game. That's his new book
and it talks about teaching tea guys teams to play fast.
I think you'll really really enjoy that interview. Let me
start though, as we're a couple of days removed from
the NBA Finals in the NBA Championship, and I did
(02:10):
hear Lebron James say I want some respect and I
just I don't know you. I think he's great. What
happens when in our world now of sports is either
somebody's the best or you're a hater. You're like, all right,
Like I many parts of his game. I haven't necessarily
(02:33):
loved some. He's improved some he hasn't, right, like that
post game that gave the fadeaway jump shot that's kind
of disappeared. He doesn't really have a middle game. He's
developed a step back jump shot, and he's obviously developed
into being a more than capable open three point shooter.
He's improved his shooting, but like, look, this is like, oh, well,
(02:54):
you know, Cindy Crawford has a mole, right, you're talking
about award on a on a supermodel lebron. J is
an incredible player. Doesn't move as well defensively throughout the
entire game or in back to back games, but can
clearly really really defend and can dominate a game. I
have no I'm not going to pick apart his game
(03:15):
in any way. My whole thing with Jordan is that
Jordan was a sheer force of will, Like he had
to find a way to win, and once he found it,
figured out how to win, there was literally no stopping him.
You know, I know, he I saw when he lost
to the Orlando Magically. He lost the basketball and he
wasn't sharp. He didn't look like a good ball handler.
(03:37):
And I understand that players I do think have more
well rounded skill set bases now, but the game is
very different. It's much less physical. There's no power forwards.
Sometimes there's no centers in the game. So instead of
comparing eras, I will just tell you that for his era,
I felt like Jordan was more thorough and completely dominant.
There was no discussion over who the best player in
the game is. And I think if we were honest,
(03:59):
we would say that Lebron didn't go against the full
field as Durant was hurt. Steph and Clay weren't in it.
They had both been hurt this year, um, and you know,
he never had to face off with the honest although
Janie is not nearly close in terms of, you know,
being completely refined, and they got an incredibly favorable matchup
along the way to face Kauai, who has done a
(04:21):
great job on Lebron in the past. So with all
that in mind, I'm not taking shots of Lebron. What
I don't love is the why would you ever have
a need for respect. You know, who are we trolling?
Why does it matter that these are This is the
(04:43):
real mistake that Lebron makes is dignifying anybody he feels
like is disrespectful to his level of success. That that's
that's punching down. I want some respect, Like, the only
people you think are disrespecting you are people whose opinions
shouldn't ador And look, there's plenty of former players that
(05:05):
opinions I think do matter that would prefer Jordan or
their era to Lebron. And maybe that's what he's talking about.
But when you say respect, it feels like you're giving
credibility to TV shows and radio shows, even mine. And
I'm very reasonable, Like people forget that. In the early
eighties it was Larry Bird Matt Johnson say the league
(05:26):
they deserve to be in any discussion of the top
five players in the modern history of the game. So
too does Michael Jordan, so too does Lebron James. And
then you gotta go, Okay, do we go Tim Duncan
who won all those titles? Do we do Kobe Bryant
who had his want all his titles? Like, what do
we do? I don't know all I can tell you
is that if somebody wants to put me in a
list of the two best players in the history of
(05:48):
the sport or the ten best players in the history
of the sport, I think that's pretty respectful. And I
think any I think asking for respect feels like some
unneeded insecurity being being outed that he clearly shouldn't have. Nonetheless,
we should respect Lebron James. Like the four NBA titles
are special. I know, we can't compare because no superstar
(06:10):
players ever bounced to three or actually four different teams, really,
if you kind of get down to it, so this
whole well, no one's won three with three different like
I got you, I got you, But no, you know,
Kareem bounced to two teams. Shack bounced to a couple
of different teams, obviously, took two to the NBA finals.
Couldn't get the Calves to the finals when he was
(06:32):
a bit player with Lebron or the Sons to the
NBA finals, So that would be the only only parallel there.
And Chack didn't take care of himself the way that
Lebron took care of himself. But to me, the the
NBA playoffs and the bubble was about his leadership, his
ability to get guys to totally buy into why they
(06:52):
were there, and coaching, I mean thinking how much play
the use of zones, Like Miami couldn't run a zone
against the Lakers. They just sliced in easted right, But
they would not have gotten to the finals without the
use of his zone. Oh yeah, by the way, the
Lakers and their adjustment for you know, quick doubling, James
Harden getting it out of his hand before you could
get into his game. Like again, all of these things
(07:14):
are coaching and and even getting the Lebron to buy
into whatever the defensive schemes were from the Lakers. That
that's coaching. Now, some of that is Lebron being coachable
and then you know, leading and getting ways to get
motivate Anthony Davis and all their whole team to play
at a super high level defensively. But I kind of
feel like coaching gets undersold in the reason the Lakers
(07:36):
became the best team in the NBA won an NBA championship.
Let's let's speak of the Lakers winning a championship. Let's
welcome him in. He is a longtime college and NBA
and w NBA champion head coach Paul Westhead joins us.
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Easter noon Pacific on
(07:58):
Fox Sports Radio. The iHeart Radio app Let's Welcome. In
the book is called The Speed Game, My Fast Times
in Basketball. Paul Westhead is my guest. Um, there's a
lot of places people could start, but I want to
start at a place that that is really most interesting
(08:18):
to me. So I apologize, coach, if it's not where
you want to begin. Um. I had I had seen
Hank Gathers in both kimball playing a pickup game at
cal State Northridge the summer before Hank's finals, Hank and
Bost final season together for you at lot La Merrimount,
and I was a kid from Orange County. I was
(08:40):
kind of blown away by this kind of bigger than
life mythical player. And I had known how you guys
had played, watching guys in the NCA tournament the two
previous years. So then fast forward to the WCC tournament
and Hank passes out. What now we're like thirty years later,
(09:01):
what memories do you have of that night? Well? Uh,
you know, I saw what everyone else saw that he
made us gigantic slam dunk, turned to get back on defense,
got almost the half court and collapsed then and you
(09:22):
know we lost them. I mean, there's nothing that even
thirty years later mix up for that. It's it was
a devastating time for me, for the team, for his family.
And there's something stug you just sunk it over and
that that happens to be one of them. Yeah, I'm
(09:43):
that's actually what's what most intrigues me. Because I went
to the next game. It was at Long Beach Arena.
He played Mexican State. And to this, to this day,
I tell people my love for college basketball. I had
loved it before that, my dad take me to games
the NCAA tournaments. I loved it after that and I
played in it. But the moment to me was, you
guys came running out and there's maroon everywhere in forty
(10:05):
four is everywhere, and then Bo gets fouled, and all
of a sudden, he takes three dribbles with his right hand,
switches to and then he makes it. He makes it.
So I mean like out of a movie. Um, okay,
so how like, look, this is a kid whose parents
trusted you write he transfers over from USC and he
(10:28):
trust you, and the kids trust you with this style
that obviously they he benefited greatly from. But it is frenetic.
It is different, the level of conditioning. It was obscene
what you guys are doing. I want to get into that,
but but you lose him there on the floor. How
did you get that group together? What did you say?
What did you do? How do you not because you're
dealing with your own emotions, I'm wondering how you did that? Yeah, well,
(10:52):
you know, we we had some hard times together. Immediately
after Hanks passing, they had a ceremony I had Loyal
and Mary, Matt and garstin Marina where the whole campus
was there and players and I were in attendance. And
then we all flew back to Philadelphia for the official
(11:14):
funeral his his mom's church. And then we returned and
the players came to me. I to be honest, I said, like,
if we just want to end it here, that's fine,
and they said, no, we want to play and we
(11:35):
want to play for Hank. So we started. We had
a couple of practices, went to Long Beach and and
launched and it's just a little perspective. They played better
than they ever did or could have. And it's kind
of interesting. You can say they played for Hank, but
(11:59):
they were playing kind of for themselves. They wanted to
kind of get away from all of the sorrow. So
plane was, you know, two hours of relief from the
other parts of the day that you were in Greek
listn't how you always played when you won an NBA
(12:20):
championship with the Lakers, but what you did took the
world of basketball by absolute storm. And what I remember,
like one of the games, I remember had seventy two
at the half, and I remember my dad, who had
coach Oregon State, he told me at the time after
the game, He's like, you know what happens is everybody's
(12:42):
scored in the first half, they feel great and they're like,
this is easy, and then they hit a wall in
the second half and they can't make a shot, they
can't dribble the camp pass, they can't make a layup,
and you guys end up conditioning kind of wins the day.
So just the style of how you played later in
your career, Loila Merrymount to the Denver Nuggets, when you
pressed and you ran. How did you formulate that style
(13:06):
in your mind or in a discussion with other coaches? Well, I,
you know, through the seventies, when I was at LaSalle University,
and and through my professional careers with the Lakers and
Chicago Bulls and then ultimately Loyal and Merriamount, I was
(13:26):
always a running coach, and I believe in in the
quick shot. I believe it makes more sense to run
the ball down and beat the defense. I mean, why
why play five on five when if you go fast en,
if you can play five one three, I mean, it's
a lot easier. So I did for those reasons. But
(13:49):
it wasn't until all the Merry Mount until hankin Bow
and Corey Gaines and Tom Peabody all showed up together,
all transferring from the different parts of the country, all
la kids. Dad, I said, well, I'm going to run,
but I have to do something to make the other
team run. So that's when we employed a full court
(14:13):
man and man press. And the press was good enough,
or if you want to look at it another way,
weak enough that you shot the ball in five seconds
like we were shooting the ball in five seconds. So
kind of accidentally, I created the perfect scenario. We shooting five,
(14:35):
You shooting five. Do that for forty minutes and see
how you feel our players could sustain that the opposition.
Many times we're doing well by halftime and then would
ultimately crack. And our guys knew that was going to happen.
How do you condition for something like that, for that
(14:56):
style of play? Yeah, I mean we did some prec
and things. We you know, we did some running. We
actually ran the sand dunes in Manhattan Beach that It's
really quite a challenge my memory is, and I did
it once myself. It's about, oh, it seems like a
(15:19):
mile straight up, but it's probably a few hundred yards,
but you have to run straight uphill and sand dunes
and and very difficult. So our guys kind of saw
that as a challenge. We didn't do it every day.
We did it a couple of times before October, but honestly, Doug,
(15:41):
the way you get conditioned to run the fast break
like we did and press, you have to do it
every day in practice. I mean I was not a
stand around coach who would stop play and give a
two minute explanation on how to defend the pick and roll.
Those two minutes were twenty five possessions wasted for me.
(16:04):
So I played the speed game in every drill, and
therefore the players, they were very acclimated to playing NonStop. Yeah,
and then you get, as you described, you get a
team playing a style that your kids practice and play
every day, and they play once or twice a year,
and so they're kind of discombibulated. While it feels good
(16:26):
to be that free and playing that fast, when you're
not used to it, you start to make errors, you do,
you get out of you lose your wind, and then
you start teams to also start playing their benches and
guys that didn't normally play are thrust in there. And
now that the strength of your death ends up becoming
a factor, I mean, the teams get so tired. I
don't know if we had a game where we played
(16:50):
LSU with the Shafield deal since at a NIKEE clinic
and he said, you know, coach, we had one of
our point cards, but about eight minutes ago in a game,
he was so tired that he was coming down with
the ball and on purpose threw it out of bounds
(17:13):
to cause a turnover so he could get his perpetio
and relax. He would do anything. They would do anything
to stop the play. And we've had occasions with teams
that did the old football trick where if a team's
playing so fast in football, you fake an injury and
(17:34):
you're on the ground and then three minutes later they
start playing again. We had teams that would do that
to us too. They would kind of fall down and
act like they're hurt, and you know they weren't hurt
because a minute later after they came out, they were
back in the game. But for our guys, it was enjoyable.
I mean, they love playing fast, They love that speed game.
(17:58):
They thrived on it. Will say to you, Doug, and
this is part of my book. There are a lot
of coaching jobs that I had that it didn't work. Yeah,
that players didn't accept it, that said this is crazy,
that said after ten days of practice, players only meeting,
(18:19):
like we got to get rid of this is someone
you love in a relationship with somebody who tells the
same joke over and over, somebody who has the audacity
to starfish the bed. Now, be honest, is that somebody
you look me Andy's nose. Relationships aren't perfect. That's why
they're celebrating imperfectly perfect matches with their new Valentine's Day collection.
(18:40):
Starting now and for a limited time only, New me
Andy's customers get twenty five percent off matching pairs and
free shipping. Express your one of a kind relationship when
you match your bottom half to your better half in
fun limited edition prints. If you're single, mingle in matching
pairs with your friends or fam you can even get
dog hoodies or buddy bands to match your four legged bff.
(19:01):
Be sure to check out all of meandi sustainably soft undies, socks, brawletts, loungeware,
and more, available in sizes extra small to four xl
Get twenty five percent off your first order of matching
pairs plus free shipping at meudes dot com slash V
Day twenty five. That's Meandies dot com slash V Day
twenty five. What grows in the forest trees? Sure no
(19:26):
one else grows in the forest. Our imagination, our sense
of wonder, and our family bonds grow too, because when
we disconnect from this and connect with this, we reconnect
with each other. The forest is closer than you think.
Find a forest near you and start exploring. I discover
(19:46):
the Forest dot org brought to you by the United
States Forest Service and the ad Council. And we're live
here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for them.
And there they go, almost on time. This morning, Mom
is coming off the front door strong with a double
armed kid carry. Looks like dad has the bags. Daughter
is bringing up the rear. Oh but the diaper bag
(20:09):
wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but mom
has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for the toddler.
And now the eldest daughter, who looks to be about
nine or ten, has secured herself in the booster seat.
Dad zips the bag clothes and they're off, But looks
like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is still on
(20:30):
the roof of the car, and there it goes. Oh,
that's a shame. That mug was a fam favorite. Don't
sweat the small stuff, just nail the big stuff, like
making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right
seat for their agent's eyes. Learn more at NHTSA dot gov.
Slash the Right Seat visits NHTSA dot gov. Slash the
Right Seat brought to you by NITZA and the ad Council.
(20:53):
So that was that. The Nuggets, I mean, what what
what didn't it work with dah No not not the
Nuggats so much. The Nuggets were answers group of guys.
They they were a depleted team. They Alex English and
everybody all left almost at the same time. So we
had some some young players and some leftovers and U
(21:13):
and I say leftovers, they're delightful leftovers. But I had
Orlando Woolridge and Walter Davis, but they were well at
the end of their career, like thirty five going up.
So we had a nice group of guys. So they
really tried their their darkness to keep this space. They
(21:34):
had trouble with the defense. See I I was foolish enough.
That's why I got fired fourteen out of twenty jobs.
I was foolish enough to try and pull it off.
The NBA guys, they might think about running the break
deep down players don't really want to run. I'm sure
(21:56):
you're a little bit aware of that. I mean, they'll
steal the ball and make a fast break, but they
do not want to go up and down, up and down,
up and down. In five seconds. It's it's against you know,
almost the Union rule, and for sure they don't want
a full court press. And I can remember practicing and
(22:17):
in games having Walter Davis and Orlando Woolwids being the
back two of my press. But I wanted them to
come forward when the ball was inbounded into the action,
you know, get in the mix of things. And they continually,
when the ball got passed in backed up and I said,
come on, Walter and oh you and he said, Coach,
(22:41):
we're covering for you. We're covering for you, man. We
don't want you to look bad. Well, they might have
been doing that, but they really didn't want to run.
That was the real bottom line. It's easier to back
up on defense, and it's easier to take your time
on offense than sprint on offense and play full court defense.
(23:02):
It's very difficult to do. That's fascinating. Um, Okay, what
was it like to go from coaching the world of
the NBA to then coaching women both in college and professionally.
What is that like in terms of not just your style,
but the way in which you approach approach coaching your players. Yeah,
(23:24):
I take the Phoenix Mercury job. A couple of things happened.
But when I go to start and sign a contract,
I fly in from LA to Phoenix, and who's at
the airport at the gate waiting for me is Diana Tassi.
(23:46):
So I can only say to you, Doug, there's a
difference of all the teams I coach, especially the pro teams.
One of the players ever waiting for me at the airport.
Some of them took me to the airport, had to
say goodbye. So anyway, we go to the arena. It
was going to be a little press conference, and she
says to me, coach, I know what you do, and
(24:11):
don't water anything down. Give us exactly what you have
done to the men. We want you to treat us
the same. So I did. I mean, I deployed the
press and run, and they gravitated to the fast break
(24:33):
in a great manner. They were good, and they got
better and better and better. The full court defense they tried,
but it they crumbled. And I was getting smart enough
to say, well, let's play a little half court zund
once in a while. But they were terrific with the
(24:54):
running game. Doug. I had a point guard, a young
lady named Kelly Miller. Her first practice we got her
in a trade. Her first practice said Kelly, I want
you to push the ball as fast as you can
on the dribble down the other end on offense. Every
time she said, I can do that. Well, every practice,
(25:15):
every drill, every game, no matter what the score, Kelly
Miller pushed that ball all the way down. So she
was she was the engine that got everybody going. And
to ROSSI just fell in line. And I had Kathy Pondexter,
who was a tough minded girl from Chicago, Penny Taylor.
(25:39):
I just had a good team. And we're jumping around.
But I'll tell you one thing. I realized. It took
me twenty eight years after I won with the Lakers
in the NBA. Took me twenty eight years to get
another championship. And I realized you have to have very
very good players in order to win. Sometimes you can
(25:59):
have a good players and you still don't win. But
if you have the very good ones like Tarassi and
Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabbar, you got a good shot.
You mentioned Magic and Kareem. Obviously you went an NBA
title and that was when famously Magic had to start
at center for you, right, Yes, we take take me
(26:20):
back before before that game, what was the discussion like
in the locker room between your coaches and with you
and Magic? Well, it's funny you say that. I'll start
with when you said discussion with your coaches. I know
today there's a little about eleven guys that get into
his coaches discussion and have input and analytics and all
kinds of stuff. At that moment, there was me and
(26:43):
one other coach. It happened to be pat Riley. That's it.
So there wasn't you know, a big coaches meeting. The
game five, which put us up three two, Kareem Abdul
Jabbar was injured. He came back and played the last
(27:04):
quarter with a severely injured ankle. We finished the game
one and Kareem doesn't come on the trip with us.
That's why we know we have to do something about it.
So we're on a flight back to Philadelphia. We're flying
commercial now, no private planes or anything. And I say
(27:24):
to Magic, I said, can you could you play center?
And he says, sure, no problem. He said, you know,
I was a center in high school. And if you
look at his background, it was only two years ago.
He played in high school then he played one year
at Michigan State, and now here he is, you know,
a rookie. So you know, we have one little shoot
(27:47):
around practice and now we're going to play the game.
I can still remember a game time. We're about to
go out and my other the biggest player in the
starting lineup, Jim Jones. It's like and foot, a big
strong man, says to me, coach, So I'm jumping center, right,
I said, no, we talked about this. Magic is going
(28:11):
to jump center, So I mean I did it kind
of symbolically, like here is Kareem's replacement for this game.
So we get our first possession, we throw the ball
to Magic. He just on his own, goes down into
the low post, takes a little sky hook kind of
(28:33):
jump hook, it goes in, and then he does anything
and everything guard forward center and he gets forty two points.
But we didn't really have many choices Doug and Magic
smiled and said, yeah, I can, I can do it.
What was Kream like to coach you? Yeah, Kareem was
(28:54):
a special guy. It's interesting. When I arrived from Los Angeles,
I went right to a kind of a workout practice,
and I was the assistant coach. Jack McKinney, my good friend,
was the head coach, and I walked in and he said, yeah,
we're working some guys out. He said, Kareem's down the
(29:14):
other end. Why don't you go down and work out
with him? So I walked down and I said hello,
and he kind of nodded. I think he said hello.
It wasn't a big conversation, and he said, why don't
you feed me the ball? So I was like in
the baseline area feeding him in the low post. I
fed him about twenty passes. He made all twenty shots,
(29:41):
threw the ball back to me after the twenty and
said thank you very much. And I said, oh, okay,
and I went back to McKinney. I said, hell, this
is easy, you know. You know, he just just passed
the guy the ball and he makes shots and it's over.
Well that was kind of the start of my relationship
with Kareem. Since then we really got along. I learned
(30:03):
one thing by instinct. You don't want to try and
tell Kareem something about basketball. You know, you kind of
maybe might suggest some things, but you're not gonna say, hey,
you know, I think if you drop your right foot
you'll be better. He would look at you like and no, no, no, no.
So I learned that quick enough and we got along
(30:28):
very well. I think more because of limited things I
said to him rather than trying to over coach him.
And I do recall one time in training camp, and
this is a tribute to him. It was our first
practice and I tried to impress the guys that we're
going to really work hard this year. So we had
(30:50):
a two hour practice and then like a good old
college coach, I said, okay, get on the lines and
we're going to run the lines. I mean, I don't
know what you your dad called it, but he called suicide.
He called murder. Yeah, yes you. So we're going down
and back down and back down and back. So we
do a whole set and it's over and the players
(31:11):
walk one way to the locker and I'm walking the
other way and Kareem comes over, puts his arm around me,
and he says, Paul, I don't do murder. And that
was it. So I went back to my room. We're
going to have another practice. That's when you could have
two a days. And he was saying to me, I
(31:35):
hope you're smart enough to know don't do them again. Yes,
and I never did so to his credit though he
did it the first time. And I don't know if
you picked up on it, but I did. He said
to me, Paul, Yes, you know, he never called the coach. Oh,
can you see him? There's probably only only one coach
right now. There was only one coach. It was John
(31:57):
Wooden and the rest of it. I played for him,
and I wish I would have had this conversation with
you before I played for him, because we we butted
heads a ton, and it was it was it was
an interesting experience. I find him to be a brilliant guy.
But but but he's he is not and even though
he's a great orator, he's not necessarily a great communicator
(32:18):
as a coach, which are two very very different things.
Is as you know, I will say, after I got
fired from the Lakers, Yeah, and I went home, you know, devastated.
And that's another whole series. I probably the best. I'm
the best coach in America to talk to coaches who
get fired, because I've been fired fourteen times. But the
(32:40):
Lakers job was the first one, right, and the first
one you take it personal. And I drive home to
my wife and my kids, and they're the kids are crying.
My wife is upset, and I'm home maybe half an
hour and the phone rings. This is before cell phones.
(33:00):
The phone rings. I pick it up and it's Kareem
Abdul Jabbar, who says, coach, I'm really sorry. You know
I wasn't involved with any of this, and I feel
bad for you. So what what happened was it was
you got cross Magic or oh I have I have
(33:21):
no idea. I mean, there there wasn't an issue in
the game before I got fired with Magic Johnson and I.
But I think ultimately Magic and that incident created some
of the issues. But I would not blame him. I
(33:41):
think the management and Jerry Buss, Uh, you know, did
what they felt they needed to do so and if
I and again I was I'm so I'm at that point,
I'm so young that all I know is based upon
what I was told and read and said. Magic was
really close to Jerry Buss, maybe too much more so
than any player and owner have ever been. Right at
(34:03):
that point in time, Magic, You're very young, and you
know Jerry Buss tried to act what he thought was
in his best interest, but it's it just it's kind
of an interesting what is I think getting fired is
one thing. Obviously, if you coach long enough, it's going
to happen to anybody. How hard is it, though, to
watch their success and be like, wait, that was it
(34:25):
should have been me? That it should have been me?
And oh yeah, by the way, the way which they
played showtime your former assistant pat Riley, like, that's how
he played, They played fast? So what what? What is
that like emotionally to process all these years later, as
you move on, as I moved to other jobs, when
I as I moved to Chicago Bulls and the Denver
(34:48):
Nuggets and and different teams, I realized that when you
get fired, it's not personal. It's not like you're the
bad guy. It's that it's business. The team has made
the decision that they need to try something different, and
(35:12):
you're the easy out. I did find in the NBA
very difficult to get rid of players and their contracts.
So if the ship isn't sailing the way you like,
it's much easier to say goodbye to the captain of
the ship and get someone new. So I have a
(35:35):
much better perspective, and I will say this Jerry Buss
fired me. But Jerry Buss was the best owner I've
ever had. And I say that because he did anything
he could to get players. You know. He In fact,
this was before the salary captain. We needed a rebound
(35:57):
er after we won a championship and then the next
year we faltered a little bit. And he said, who's
the best free agent out there to help you? And
I said, Miss cup Check is the best free agent
that we need. He said, I'll get him. I said, well,
you know what, really he said, I'll go to the vault.
(36:18):
I will get miss cup Check for if that's what
you want, I'll get him. So you can't do any better,
especially if you're a professional coach, to have an owner
that will do anything it takes to get the best player.
I marvel at you know. Now his daughter Jeanie, who
(36:39):
my recollection is, she was maybe a ten eleven year old,
maybe a preteen girl. I'd see occasionally. She did the
same thing. She went out and got Anthony Davis. And
therein lies the whole difference. You know, get the right
(36:59):
play and put them in with what you have, and
Davis and Lebron the nobody's gonna beat them in seven games. No, no, nobody,
nobody did well, Coach. I can't wait to read the
entirety of the book. It's called The Speed Game. I
fast times in basketball. I know there's a ton of
stories done a basketball or I can only tell you
as a guy who loves the sport, I got a
chance to play. I love watching your teams play your
(37:21):
unique style, and I'm gonna I would I would argue
with you to the death though, I would love to
play that because I can't imagine how many assists I
could have gotten playing players like to play fast No, no, no,
no, no no, I love no, I love it. Yeah, I know,
but trust me, I've had teams that I have. My
first meeting, I say, okay, now we're going to fast
break this year, and who's in favor? And you know,
(37:44):
all twelve guys raise their hands, you know, and then
after about six practices, if you ask the same question,
might have two. I would be one. I would be
one of those two. I would be one of those
one of those two. Yeah. Well, well, if I had you, Doug,
you'd be in the Speed Game. Then you'd be in
this this book and that. You can get it on
(38:07):
Amazon dot com right now it's available. But I just
hope that people realize how hard it is to run
this one. It's because players want to play steady as
it goes. They they say they want to play fast.
They don't want to play fast. It's too hard. Hey, coach,
(38:30):
thanks so much for joining us. Congrats on the book
and can't wait to read it insent entirety. Get right
to the romance and find the way to wow this
Valentine's with one hundred Flowers dot com. From classic roses
and bouquets to decadent chocolate covered berries, gourmet treats and more.
Surprise your Valentine with one hundred flowers dot com right now.
Get the eighteen stem enchanted rose metally for thirty nine
(38:53):
nine nine, or upgrade to twenty four red roses for
ten dollars more. Go to one hundred flowers dot com
slash two tune in. That's one eight hundred flowers dot
com slash tune in. If I could be you and
you could be me for just one hour, if you
could find a way to get inside each other's mind.
Walk a mile in my shoes, Waco mile in my shoes, shoes.
(39:18):
We've all felt left out, and for some that feeling
lasts more than a moment. We can change that. Learn
how it belonging begins with us dot org brought to
you by the Act Council. Welcome mile in machine. Look
through your children's eyes to see the true magic of
a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You look
(39:41):
and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face of
a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They see
treasure in pebbles, They see a windy path that could
lead to adventure, and they see you there, fearless guide.
Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and
start exploring at over the Forest dot org brought to
(40:01):
you by the United States Forest Service and the AD Council.
Be sure to catch the live edition of The Doug
Gottlieb Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific. My
thanks to Paul west Ed what a really insightful guy.
Interesting book speed game. You can pick it up on
Amazon whoever you pick up books. A quick reminder of
the Doug Gotlip Shows daily three to sixth Eastern time,
(40:24):
twelve to three Pacific. If you miss it, you can
download the podcast wherever you download podcast. Obviously this All
Ball we were pretty big fans of, but Little Wine
joined us in the last one. You can still download
that one, download, sub subscribe, and don't forget to rate us.
I think we got a chance of something pretty special
over the next couple of years in college basketball, as
(40:47):
guys are going to get a chance to get an
extra year of eligibility and not count against the thirteen
scholarship of living. College basketball to me has been not
just watered down because there's so many teams and so
many conferences and everything's on TV, but because guys just
leave too early. They just do and we don't, and
they transfer so much we don't know whose where. Like
(41:08):
I've done this for twenty years and I got to
do a much better review nowadays than I used to
because everybody transfers or goes to the pros. But with
the extra year of eligibility, has a chance to reset
reset the market. Mo Yeah, by the way, the g
leagues in major trouble. This is a great move by
the NCAA and one that could help kind of regenerate
(41:30):
some interest into college basketball as we regenerate the depth
of talent because teams had really become watered down losing
entire teams on a year to year basis. All right,
we got great interviews up coming on future all Balls.
Thanks so much for listening. Don't forget to download subscribe
rate Listen to the Doug Gotlip Show Daily. I'm Doug Gotlieben.
This is All Ball. Hi, I'm fall from Progressive. Being
(42:12):
a baseball fanatic like me can be stressful. It's not
all sports points and touchdowns. So Progressive is going to
help you take your mind off your team for a moment.
Instead of thinking about how they missed that goal points score,
think about the name your price tool from Progressive, letting
you choose coverage options based on your budget, unlike your
team that missed the end zone net area. Well, anyway,
I hope this distraction about Progressive's name your Price Tool
(42:33):
was helpful. It sure kept me from thinking about all
those penalty balls. Yeah, Sports, Progressive Cancialty in Terns Company
and Affiliates, priceon Coverage Match Limited Divice Neate Law
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.