All Ball - Part 2: Tremaine Fowlkes on Fighting for NBA Survival, '04 Pistons Title Run

In this episode, Doug continues hos conversation with Tremaine Fowlkes on his NBA experience playing for a bad Clippers team during the Shaq/Kobe era, winning a title as a reserve on the 2004 Pistons title team, his experience playing for the Pacers after the roster was decimated from the 'Malice in the Palace' brawl, and what he's pursuing in his post-hoop life. Make sure you download, rate and subscribe here to get the latest All Ball Podcasts!

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Episode Transcript

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(01:08):
welcome in. I'm Duck Aliban. This is all ball all
hoop all the time. Great stories. This is going to
be part two of A Man Tremaine. Folks. When we
last talk with Tremaine, we were talking about his journey
to the NBA, growing up in LA, the hard times
in college, the disappointment with some of the guys who

(01:29):
coached him in college. Now we get to professional basketball.
Remember he finally got the call up and stuck with
the Clippers. The kid who grows up in LA bounces
all around and gets to come home as agent calls
him and says, hey, congrats, you're going to You're going
to LA to sign the NBA. Awesome. The Lakers know
the Clippers, but the Clippers at that time had moved

(01:50):
to Staples Center. Things were but they were very, very young.
And let's let's continue our catch up which remain folks. Yeah, okay,
part two, Little man t Folks, Um Pike Tremaine. Let's
let's get to Okay, So now you're a member of
the Clippers. We talked about it about how you grew

(02:12):
up a Laker fan and you finally get a shot.
You're finally in the league, but it's with the Clippers.
And at this point in time, the Clippers aren't very good. Um,
you get done with that season, right, this is two
thousand and three. Now you played a little bit in
the league. What happens during that transition from the Clippers

(02:36):
to Detroit. I did have a couple, you know, I
had a good second year. The third year, Don Lee
he got rid of everybody. You know, he shipped shipped
me out. Well you got rid of me, melbani Eli,
Chris Willcox, lamar Old, I mean he got he got
rid of damn near the whole team. We were shipped

(02:58):
out different places. I ended up being with Detroit. I
thought I would stay that third year, but you know,
Bobby Simmons came in and Mike Dunlevy Jr. Came in there,
so he kind of reshaped the team the way he
wanted to. And actually I had a little only had
about one hundred thousand guaranteed then, and I said, well,
they're not going to keep me. At least I can
at least have some money to try to see where

(03:20):
my next stock would be. And long enough it was
Detroit and quick story, you know how I got to Detroit.
During that preseason, we had a lot of injuries, you know,
with mcgetty q Rich Lamar. That gave me the opportunity
to play, and those minutes I took advantage of. And

(03:42):
it actually was Doug that Detroit was my best preseason game.
We played Detroit and Detroit I had about seventeen points,
not knowing that in hindsight it would come full circle
that I would end up playing for Detroit. So you
never know, a preseason game get you a job for
another team at the end of the day. And that's

(04:03):
what happened. What was l like at that point in
time in his career, Lamar? Yeah, uh, you know, I
think he was trying to find his niche that he
once had already when he entered the league, you know,
as a high profile player. U with him getting into

(04:23):
you know, some trouble with you know, a failed drug test, um,
you know this or that, it kind of weighed in
on him and probably affects the team a little bit,
you know, with you know, any distraction that's not on
the court, you know, is going to kind of stick
with the team as a whole. But he had to

(04:44):
support from us. He had real good support from his team.
You know, he had good support from myself. But uh,
you know, we were hoping the best for Lamar. It
just it just seemed like he just couldn't get over
the hunt with you know, problem here, problem there? What
about what about you personally? So like before we get
to in Detroit, you're in LA with the Clippers, right,

(05:05):
but you're like an LA guy in your back home,
Like were you were you a hangout guy? Did you
go out? Did you like? What were you at that
point in your life? Well, it was a blessing, so
you know, it's a cash twenty two. You're like, you're
at home, but you don't want to be out too much.
You don't want any I was kind of nervous too.
I didn't want to. I didn't want to get any trouble.

(05:25):
You know, Um, somebody that's playing for their hometown team,
you know, the chances are more likely for you to
actually deadly slip on, you know, get caught up in something.
So my thing was practice, go home, eat dinner, and
maybe go to the gym and workout at night. Now,
don't get me wrong, we get we went out as

(05:46):
a team. Yes, we were a young team compared to Detroit.
We might have been the youngest team in the league.
You know, Uh that I ever played for everybody was
in a twenties, you know, so going out on the
weekend as a team, it was it was more safe
to me than going out with my with my friends,
you know, and not knowing you know, what is going on,

(06:07):
whatever situation they might have had. You know, maybe once
in a while I did, but I played a safe
at home. What what what was the organization like at
that point in time, because you guys are in the
sports arena, where'd you even practice that? We were were
the Clippers? No practice facility, yet we practiced at two places.
We practiced it at the Spectrum. Uh, that would be

(06:31):
I would say man d Manhattan, Redonald the Spectrum. Jim.
That was nice. It was pretty good. But of course
you get shared it with everybody else who has memberships.
You know, you practiced the workout club, right, yeah, right,
And we had Southwest College Southwest where we're practicing where
everybody that goes to school. So no privacy as an

(06:53):
NBA team, But we had to get the job done
and Southwest actually wasn't a bad place to practice. But
you know, then again his Southwest College, you're in the hood.
It's crazy, right you think about you think about it
now to think about it then, right, like even the
Clippers now they have a facility, but they're building a

(07:14):
new pract facility. It's like their second one. They're staples,
but they're going to build a new arena as opposed
to then, you guys played literally the worst arena in
the NBA. Right, yeah, and you had no practice facility.
What was what were you Do you have any interactions
with Donald Stirling? Uh? No, you know I should Donald's
hand a couple of times. He was really here and there.

(07:37):
You know, he'll pop up when he wanted to, you know,
but I definitely saw his name on my checks every time.
You know, so he definitely had his imprint and the
team and you'll make it. He'll make his appearances every
now and then. Elgin Baylor, you know, rest in peace, Eljen.
He was pretty much, you know, the fixture and being
seen coming into practices. He quiet though, but showed himself

(08:03):
with his appearance and seeing Elgin. He's a legend. So
we eligent you said, okay, you know him as a gym.
He's taking it serious. You know. The organization didn't have
the success. Uh, it just didn't seem like the organization
wanted to really commit to players, you know, and that

(08:23):
was just they're finally over that hump, of course. So yeah,
and ownership is a big deal. So okay, so take
me into what it's like like you're in the league.
Everybody knows everybody, right, and yet you're in the same
town as the Lakers. This time the Lakers have Shaq
and Kobe right, correct? Correct? Okay, so they have Shanko.

(08:45):
You're like, you're in the same league, but you're not
in the same league. Would you guys ever see those
guys out and like, what is that? Did did they
treat you with respect? They look they're like the Clippers, right,
what was what was that? You know, we were a
tear down from the Lakers. You gotta think the Lakers
already won a couple of chips, so they really are

(09:08):
on the city. Okay, and you already know what the history.
We were just trying to get our feet wet at
that same time. And I think at the year after
I left, Clippers finally made went to the playoffs. But
getting you know that it was mutual respect from both sides.
You know, I remember seeing shack out Devin George, you know,

(09:31):
I mean, you had all the players going. You might
have seen Robert ore out a couple of times. So
the love was mutual from us. But as far as
outside of public, oh yeah, they definitely it was. It
was a Laker first town, and it's it's always gonna
be like that, you know, Tencil town, It's always going
to be like that. But the love is mutual. Once
you in the league, everybody talks and understands the drying

(09:54):
and it was a pleasure to kind of see the
Lakers out there. You know, you really didn't see them
unless you playing on the court. What um, what is
that for for somebody who hasn't experienced the lifestyle of
a dude who might play or might not play on
a given night. Right, Like, like the most you played

(10:15):
your second year with the Clippers, you played thirty seven games, right,
That means there's more than half the games you don't play.
So again, and this is like more instructional, right than
anything else, because I think dude was like, oh, that's
the greatest deal ever, Right, you just go show up,
lay up lives beats some dude by the Now, that's
not really how it goes, right, So okay, So so

(10:38):
take me into like you're with the Clippers. Let's say
it's your first year was done leaving the coach the
first year. First year with Clippers, My first year was
Alvin Gentry. My second year was Alvin Gentry. Towards the
end of the year they fired Alvin and let Dennis Johnson.
You know DJ Rescues, Okay, who you had a good
relationship with right from from going back to minor leagues. Yeah,
good relationships on that. That worked out good as far

(11:01):
as our confidence because DJ would give me the confidence to,
you know, go out there and say, hey, man, you
belong out here, Tray, you know, no matter how you
got here with a couple of ten days and this
and that, you're here, so go out and play. Okay,
let's let's go back when that ten day when when
they say hey, we're they're picking up your ten day
and you get extended for the whole season. What's that

(11:22):
feeling like? What? What? What do you remember about those moments?
That's the great that that's that's a great feeling. And
I was just reminded of that that same feeling when
I saw I was watching ESPN they said, oh, DeMarcus,
DeMarcus are signed for the rest of the year at Marcus. Yeah, Marcus,
because that took me back right there. You know, for
somebody like him, that's nothing. You know, he's got he's

(11:45):
got one hundred million dollars in the bank. You're right,
You're right. Okay. So so like when you're you get
called up, you get called up, Okay, how much like
how much money would you would you have in your
bank account, like when you're you're playing in minor league basketball,
you know, do you I would I would keep out
maybe twenty five three thousand dollars in there. You know,
you're not making the money is not there, you know. Okay,

(12:08):
So so then so then they they so then they
come into like we're picking your up for the rest
of the season, like oh my, I'm like, you know
again it's pro rated, but yeah, but six finger gig,
who cares pro rated? You're getting maybe three years of
h B League ball money and you know, three months.
So that was great, you know, pick up a quick

(12:30):
uh maybe forty fifty thousand, sixty thousand was great, you
know for me just to because I'm thinking that, you know,
I'm starting to make plans to go overseas. You know,
I've done it before money. Yeah, that's where everybody you
have to you have to have a uh, you have
to support your family. Uh. My my girlfriend then was

(12:50):
just uh she was pregnant right about them, so it
was kind of a black kind of get that call
up at that time. So okay. So then, so then
what is a what is a day in the life
of a dude who you're playing for? Alvin Gentry, did
you guys always have shoot around? Yes, unless we went
on a three game winning streak, we might get that.
We might get a shoot around off or two. Okay,

(13:13):
so you have shoot around? Was like, what time? Shoot
around will be about nine o'clock. Yeah, okay, so nine
o'clock you go for how long? Go for an hour?
We go for an hour. You gotta think the earlier
in LA to get things over with it is better.
The traffic is horrible. So I was always for it too,
because you know, my thing was, I do not want

(13:36):
to be late to any meetings, any practices, any shoot arounds.
They should say, hey, Tracia know this city like the
back of his hand, So anybody you can get me
in and out, I'm there. So okay, So you're so
you're done at ten, did you stay and shoot? You go,
I'm gonna go get my nap. Like, what was your routine? Uh?
I would stay. I would make sure when you're the

(13:57):
twelve and thirteen guy, you know, sometimes as I did,
starting this and that, but you got the think I'm
trying to earn the respect of the coaches as well.
I would stay after, you know, and shoot make sure.
You know, hey, hop in some games in the spectrum
they start running the spectrum. You hop in and get it,
get it over run, you get your little round, Mike.
You know, you might get an extra fifteen twenty minutes

(14:18):
and I get kicked off the court at Staples before
the next team comes in. So you know, it was
no consistency, but you had to make it things existing
around you, you know, So that that right there and
making things consistent around he was great and that was
my job. You know, that was my job. Okay. So
then you would get to the arena at what time

(14:39):
seven o'clock game, which I mean at the end seven
o'clock game, Doug, I would be at the arena by
five fifteen. I was one of always the first ones
to get to the arena. You know, the players, Uh,
the star starters get there by five forty five, so
I would definitely be there about thirty minutes early, and
it felt good to be the first one there. You
never want to be stuck in track, if you never

(15:00):
want to be late. You just want everybody once you're
in that arena. Something about going through the tunnel, and
once you're there, it's like, okay, I'm here. My mind
is right. I can concentrate and focusing on the game. Okay,
So you get out there, you get what a half
hour in? Would you get a lift in like I would.
I would get a half hour in. I would be
able to take my time, get dressed, be our own

(15:23):
a court, maybe talk to a few fans, interacts and
get my shots up, work out with you know, one
of the player development coaches, and pretty much just just
get in that mindset of if I was gonna play.
Just like you said earlier, I didn't know if I
was gonna play or nothing. You know, I've gotten calls
maybe eight in the morning and say, hey, Trey, we're

(15:43):
taking you off the IR, so be ready. So I've
learned to always, you know, be prepared because you never
know if you're on an IR if you're gonna get
caught up that day even the day of you know,
I've had to get dressed or we're taking you off
the ir so be ready and I remember time or
to that you just take for granted, like I'm not

(16:04):
gonna play, so I'm just gonna be like mL car
and room to route my team more. But you know,
the league is going so fast right now, you know,
you never know. You know, guys need a day off
real quick. They come and say, okay, hey, it's more
it's more common for guys to take a day off
off that game or just to get peopled, you know
how it is now that kind of works out. It's

(16:27):
a cash twenty two, but it kind of works out
for the guy at the end of the bitch if
he stays rending. These guys stay. So that was my
thing in preparation. You know, what's my thing to make
sure I stay ready just in case my number was called. Now,
when you get done working out, would you go back
in shower or you just stay you stay loosing warm?
What was your what was your thing? I would go back.

(16:48):
I would go back and then interact with all the
with with my teammates because everybody is there, Boden's five
forty five, everybody's in the locker room. Funniest dude, funniest
you ever played this in the pros? Like guy like
I go to him and I'm just a you know,

(17:10):
Keian Dueling was a pretty funny guy. Man. I missed
playing with Keyon Dooley. Another another guy that nobody thought
was funny, but he was funny to me. Was was
uh dark Old Milichick. They called him the human cigar
because he would just you know, I played against him

(17:31):
when I was in Israel. I was in Israel on
two thousand and one, two thousand and two, and right, yeah,
I thought he would be good. Yeah, I thought he'd
be good, like I think he'd be good in the
league now. Plus he shouldn't have played for LB. Like
that was a bad that that was the worst decision.
But quick question, did you like Israel? Did you like that? Hell? Yah,

(17:53):
that was great. Great. They messed around with the money.
They got still silly with the money. Yeah, but as
far as place is to live, like, yeah, what's not
to like? They speak English? Right, yeah, you know, it
was it was, it was, it was. It was nice. Um, Okay,
so you go to Detroit. Then you go to India

(18:16):
right right, And if memory serves, you were on the
floor or you were dressed the night of the Mouths
of the Palace. Correct. No, I wasn't dressed that night.
I was dressed the following night after Uh, Steven and
Rob got into the squabble, you know, they got Okay,
So but you were there, you were there that night? No, No,

(18:37):
I wasn't there that night. I can I came the
following night. I can't. I was the backup now they had.
So where were you when it happened. I was right
here in Sacramento when that happened. I was in front
of the couch watching it, like, oh my gosh, is
this crazy? You know, I'm like wow, you know, with
Detroit the year before, I'm like, what's going on here?

(18:58):
So you got cut by Detroit. Yes, they did not
pick me up for the following year. So I was
kind of shocked. At the same time, I'm like, okay,
this is uh, this is kind of different. But at
least they had told my agent and I Bill. They said, hey,
we like trade, you know, you know, we know a
couple of teams that were signed them. But you know,

(19:18):
we're looking in another direction. It was very respectable. I've
been cut, you know, away by teams and you know,
my phone call and they end up not being how
you do that? And Rick Carlott, you know, Mike Donley,
they actually had to bring it back in when situations
happened like that and say, hey, I apologize for the
phone call. Should have brought you, you know, brought you in.

(19:39):
So at the end of the day, I do respect
them for that. But yeah, I was on the couch
does when that, when that fight happened, I'm like, man,
this is real. I couldn't believe it at first. And
then I'm going to the gym the next day to
work out, and my agent calls and says, hey, are
you ready to play? I said, you already know. He said, hey,
You're going to Indiana right now. I said, are you serious,

(20:00):
I'm going to Indiana right now? He said yes. They
suspended them and they need another player. So I did
a post like they needed another squabler, just in case
they had a guy La guy. Yeah. They knew about
they knew about Crenshaw. They didn't know you grew up
in balling Park though. They were like they knew bad.
You're like, he's kind of soft that, you know, because

(20:24):
his mom, His mom would let him out after dark. Uh. Okay,
so you get to you get to was it in Detroit?
Was the next game? What was their next game? That
next game? That's a good question. That next game. I
can look if you like that next game we played
was That's a good question. That next game we played?

(20:47):
We were I met I met them out of town.
We did, we played them, Gosh, we played Carlile. Carlisle
was the coach, right, Rick Carlile was the coach, and
we you know, you know, no, no, you know what
that we came back for. That was came back for
a home game. Uh, you played Minnesota at home? Yeah?

(21:09):
Did you play? You playing that first game? Yes, there
you go, I played that game. So so you come
back with hell up, you're about to go to get
a little workout at like La Fitness, right or or
twenty five hours at at Jamtown. It's I mean not jamtown,
basketball town working out. Okay, So you're gonna go to
basketball town in Sacramento. Correct. Okay, why are you staying

(21:29):
in Sacramento? Your girls there? Well, my girl that medic
at cow she is from Sacramento, and my trainer ended
up being out here, Gus Armstead, who was you know,
trained everybody you know, college, pros, high school, and it
kind of happened, just just didn't I didn't know what
was gonna happen. It just happened like, hey, oh I'm

(21:51):
here working out now. So I ended up making sacking
my home and okay, so you go there. So you
go there like, yeah, I'm going to get to work out.
Great workout. Gus says, hey, Bill wants you to call him.
I said, okay, I kind of didn't take it. Huh
Bill Duffy, Bill Naff, Bill, I love Bill Naff. Yeah,

(22:13):
So I went Hell his point guards. What do you
have you for? Yell? He had. I changed the game
for him, you know something he saw. I was like, hey, Tray,
you can do it. You can do it. You're working hard.
I said, you know what, Bill, you coming to me
telling me that let's get this done. So I signed
with Bill, you know, after Bill Duffy in various agents,
and I stepped with Bill to the you know, throughout

(22:34):
the whole my whole career. He was great. Okay, So
so you get there and they're like they I mean
by now every everybody right then, everybody kind of ran
the same stuff. Right, ry run hawks, we run hawks.
You guys run horns, you run horn um. But what
was it like around that team when you had I

(22:56):
believe still at that time they had suspended him, but
they hadn't ruled the final suspect and never those guys
are spent the rest of the year. What was it
like to take the floor a pacer uniform? H considering
the fight, it was it was special. You know, first
of all, you're taking in you're you're you're in something
that's infamous. That fight is going to be infamous. And
just for me to be a part of something, you know,

(23:19):
for the better, to help recover something that worked so
bad and I'm there the next day was great. But
just to be able to walk in at arena and
be able to when somebody comes up to you and
his name is Reggie Miller, You're like, oh, man, come on, Reggie.
The gardens fight leads. You know, you just think about
so many, uh, just things that make you say, oh,

(23:42):
he's a legend, you know, and just like you were
in the same age group we watched Reggie a million times.
The New York Bats the George b I was his
ball boy at UCLA because Rashid and and Doc Hazard
were I'm an AU team, all right, Yeah that's my Yeah,
so me and two, Me and me and two two

(24:02):
we used to go and we'd be a ball boy
tell uh and and uh and and go to UCLA game.
So yeah, I mean Reggie and like Reggie Moor is
like a god, like there's like an aura around him.
The history is gray. And not only there, it gets
even better. Now. After a game, I'm getting dressed and
guess who walks up to me the GM And it's

(24:25):
not anything. Yeah, it's not just any GM, It's it's
Larry Bird. I'm like, wow, I never saw Larry in
a suit, you know how. Wow, I'm just so used
to see in the grade thirty three? So did you
tell him you hated him as a kid? Did you say,
like I hated you. I'm an LA guyed not Larry
Bird as much as probably as a Danny Aings or

(24:48):
a Kevin You're right, Yeah, there's like a begrudging respect
from LA guys on Larry Bird, which everybody hated inge right,
everybody hated Innge and then and then you sort of
didn't like Michayley, right, yeah, MICHAELA Aids. They they they
taught you not how to like you know, you know,

(25:09):
they were totally into their team. It's either their team
or FU You're out of here, you know, and you
know that works. Though that works. You know you're not
gonna have the most fans, but hey, Fox Sports Radio
has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch
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just waiting for the And there they go, almost on time.
This morning. Mom is coming out the front door strong
with a double arm kid carry. Looks like dad has
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(27:16):
the diaper bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Ooh,
but mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle
for the toddler, and now the eldest daughter, who looks
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the booster seat. Dad zips the bag clothes and they're off,
But looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is

(27:38):
still on the roof of the car and there it goes. Oh,
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the Right Seat brought to you by NITZA. We had counsel. Okay,

(28:01):
so so that season's over in India, Yeah, and you
you went back to the D League. What's it like
to go back after you've been in the show, right,
you've been in the NBA, to then go back to
the Hell is that is that harder or easier to
be in the D League as opposed to when you're
in the D League before you got into the NBA. Uh.

(28:23):
It's you know, you definitely have to have a strong head.
You know, you have to humble yourself. It's very difficult
to um take a step down after you had success,
you know, went in the championship, being on some top teams.
You know, it's not like I was playing for the Grizzlies,
you know, and the Raptors for a while. People you know,

(28:45):
of course they won, but I was able to at
least elevate myself from the Clippers, you know, to Detroit,
Indiana and be able to play on both sides of
the coast and be able to take all that in
was great, But then you had that you take all
that into a bubble and you have to take it
down to the minor leagues. So you're like, okay, you

(29:05):
have to be mentally prepared, preparation so you just don't
feel like you're in a spot where you can't get
out of and you have to use this as a
moment to help other players out that are trying to
get where you where you've gone, So you have to
look at it in a positive way. So my thing was,
if I'm coming back down here, I'm gonna be a
you know, a stand up veteran so called you know, hey,

(29:27):
I'm gonna be a teachable guy. I can teach you
the dudes and the don'ts. You know. Hey, this hoig,
I got my first call up. You effing up this way?
Try it this way. Okay, put some more time in here, Hey,
talk to the coach some more. All the intangibles, you know.
You know how this You need to do all the
intangible stuff sometimes to survive in the league, you know.

(29:49):
And for me, I felt I survived long enough at
that time to be able to give advice to the youngsters.
And they needed these days, you know. They they're they're
built different this day and age. It's been like that
for a while now. But I had to use it
as a teaching moment so I wouldn't feel like, Okay,
I'm down here in the modern leagues, man, I'm depressing.

(30:12):
You're getting that mold sometimes. But you have to put
yourself out, man, to make sure you're using yourself as
a positive for somebody else. Okay, Um, let's go back
to when you're in Detroit during the NBA Finals. Okay,
like you grew up a Laker fan, now you're with
the Pistons, Okay, what did you think going into the series,

(30:35):
like we do you like we got them? Or I mean, like,
remember they had Karmalone, that Gary Payton, they had Shack,
they had Kobe. Everybody knew that Shack and Kobe weren't
vibing at that point in time, but I'm not sure
anybody knew how bad it was. But what do you remember?
What do you remember not going into that series? Um,
I definitely remember that we were the underdog. We weren't

(30:56):
even supposed to be there anyway. I believe Indiana was
the best team that year with your main and run,
they were the best team. And then you had New
Jersey still with Jason and Kim, so uh, we were
the underdog period, you know, straight out, and that was
fine with us. I really think that kind of helped us.
I felt that the Lakers kind of took us for

(31:17):
granted because we didn't have a solid, solid big man,
and when you don't have a big man with Shaq,
that spills disaster. And we had Rashid and Being and
both of those guys stepping up to the plate was unbelievable.
But going there that first game in LA and be
able to play in the finals and see and uh

(31:39):
and be able to be at Staples and went and
be a part of that. The energy level was you
can't explain it, you know, being home right now in
the finals. Try help man. So you you dressed, you
dressed that game? No, I want to I'm on a bench,
im miss street cloths back because your street clothes. You
walk out your Staples, Yes, your Staples, and they won

(32:01):
the last two championships, right, and they roll out with
with with all these stars, right you got you guys
roll in and what paint? Because this is what you're
gonna tell your kids for the next thirty forty years. Well,
what was it? Like? What do you remember? You're going
out and you're walking down the first team you see
as the two thousand and four finals on the floor,
and you're like, oh my goodness, this is this is

(32:23):
real right now? Okay, this is we are definitely here
right now, this is where it's at. You see things
on TV so much and I'm just able to say, hey,
I was there, you know. And uh, you want to
take a step further, Doug and say hey, I wanted
to play. I wish I actually was in that game,
you know. Um, and but the energy is still the same.

(32:46):
You know, the energy is still the same when you're
actually there, you're you're you're still aging your teammates on.
You know, I'm hype coming out with teams calling time out.
I'm like, let's go, let's go. We got it, we
got it. So you automatically take on the end as
if you were out there and uh, just but you
know you're right next are Kobe's right taking the last shot,

(33:08):
you know, right next to my bench, and I'm like,
this might go win right here. You know, he shoes
the three last second and half a win. Uh. I
believe Game one it was either game one of the
game too, because we split games in La, so game
one game one, you gut, uh yeah, check that real quick.
Game one, you guys won eighty seven to seventy five.

(33:33):
Billed them. You guys held them do seventy five. They
beat you over time ninety nine, sixty eight, eighty and
eighty seven. Like that's that that that's that's crazy. Yeah.
I mean like, look they had dudes. Rick Fox I
think got hurt. I think Carmelone got her own. Gary

(33:53):
Payton was hurt. I mean they had a lot of
you know, people forget that Carl and Gary was on
that squad you know as well, but they were hurt
that year, and you know, for us to take advantage
of that was great because we really, I mean me,
I'm thinking, like, we have all these Hall of famers
on this team, my goodness, and you know, once I

(34:15):
think we saw their weakness and just made sure we
played solid defense. That was what was the weakness. Well,
once you had once Kobe and Shaq couldn't get on
the same page. After we saw that, they okay, we'll
we'll double team Shock. Shack would throw it out to Kobe,
Kobe wouldn't throw it back in, So that kind of

(34:37):
made a little risk between them and we kind of
saw that. And then next thing, you know, we're doubling
Shack and Shack is like, screw everybody, I'm taking it.
And we saw Shat kind of get out his game.
A little bit after that. The players, you know, you asked,
you know, the you know, everybody else on the Lakers
team really trying to help them, trying to get together,

(35:00):
you know, and after that, that's where your mind is off.
They're focusing on trying to get Kobe and Shacked together.
When they need to be focusing on us. Rashid is
a guy who everybody who's ever played on the same
court as him was like that, dude's always been one
of the top five most talented dudes in the league. Right,
But there were a bunch of reason he wasn't a

(35:21):
workout guy, right, he didn't. He didn't jibe with all coaches.
But for that period of time, people remember he was
traded first to Atlanta for like a day and then Detroit.
What did Larry Brown do? Because that was the best
he ever played in terms of both ends and being
engaged fully, Like, how did it work that Larry Brown

(35:42):
made it work? That's a good question, Doug. You know Larry,
you wouldn't think Larry and Recid were kind of comingo,
you know, and it didn't work at times, but Larry
actually took a step back what received and to let him,
you know, uh do what he does. And that's what

(36:04):
you have to do with rash You know, he's uh,
you know him, his his his men, so and everything
is always he's high strung. So he's always like, yeah,
let's go this, this and that, and once that kind
of spilled on the team in a positive way it worked.
You know, a lot of a lot of the top
guys were quiet. Then was quiet, Rip was quiet, Chauncey

(36:28):
was quiet, John Chauncy super chun is super quiet, right
like he very thoughtful and quiet, right much like the
same way. Like, it's an interesting mix that it all
worked at. Yeah, it was very interesting. So Rashi came
and change of dynamics, you know, and made players open up,
you know and be vocal and that that we needed

(36:51):
that and that kind of fitted perfect. You know, you
needed that vocal guy that gave everybody else that little
chip on their shoulder. And that's where Rashi came in
and did um Okay Ben Wallace at that time, that's
like peak Ben Wallace. But there's a dude from like nowhere,
like no one had ever heard of this dude, and
then the guy looks like a Greek god. Right, Well,

(37:14):
what's Ben Wallas really like to be around? Ben was great.
That was one of the best players teammates to be
around on that team. You know, we had a little
connection with you know, dusted his shoulders all coming out
to start in line up. When you know they do
the introduction, we dust each other's shouldles off. And how'd
that how'd that come to be? Like, who's like, yo, he,
I'm gonna dust that your idea, this idea? Did you

(37:36):
see it somewhere else? Uh? You know, I remember everybody said,
you remember Jason said, that's the shoulders that that's the
shoulders off song. So he would come out ben without
run through the lineups. You know, he would walk and
I'm saying, since Being taking his time, he's too cool,
let me just dust his shoulders off, okay, because you
know Being would walking his arms. He's got porters walking.

(37:56):
You know, you're like, hey, hey, hey, I said, you
know what, you don't even have to get hi, I'm
just gonna dust your shoulders on. And then so soon
to be he would dust mine on and then okay,
I say, you know what, thank you. I'm a popular collar.
So I pops collar deep pop mine and we rolled
that all the way to the championship. So you know,
something like that, you're never gonna forget because that's part

(38:17):
of that team. Karateie you you you win game five, okay,
and people forget no team and never won all three
in a row at home as the as the underdog
right or was the lower seed so you you you win.
You've been through a lot of ship right, Like it
was like sixteen high schools you went through last time,

(38:39):
and a few colleges, right, d League overseas Achilles injury. Right, yeah,
but but you didn't play. So I have a buddy
who's on the he's played in the playoffs for other teams,
and he was on the Cubs World Series winning team,

(39:01):
and he was like, doesn't really mean anything to me
because I didn't play. But for you, when you went
through it and you're celebrating, how connected to that team
did you feel like when you guys celebrated, I felt connected.
But I understand. I mean with your friend is saying
because you don't have on the uniform, you know, but

(39:23):
you're on a bench, and I'm saying, hey, yeah, I'm
at street clothes, but I'm over here just as happy
as everybody else, you know. And you have moments where
you saying, I would have loved just getting in there
for twenty seconds, you know, if I could just fail
somebody out real quick man in game the game, you
have that thought and saying, hey, maybe they might address

(39:45):
me this game. You know, I've been surprised like that
in my whole career, you're gonna have that time. It
didn't happen. But then in highsight, you're like you're getting
all the rewards and you're reaping all the benefits as
if you were playing. So you and partied like you
party like you had twenty five about it. I said, hey, yeah,

(40:06):
we're gonna party, you know, like it's nineteen ninety nine. Okay,
here's here's a question I always wondered, always wonder these. Okay,
so you win the championship, you guys all go out together.
We did that night. Yeah, we all went out and
we we that was it. We did one night. You know,
some teams are probably going out the whole week together,
you know, but you know we did celebrate as a team,
uh that night. And you know, we have fun. You know,

(40:29):
they gave us the whole little floor, uh, you know
to have fun and a little b I P and
we just have fun. Man, we have fun. We okay,
but it's okay. So but again, you're like a minimum
contract dude. Yeah were you were? You duck in the
need to bill? You're like yo Rushi, who pays the
bill on nights like that? Oh you know what that

(40:50):
that was always a thing of mine. You know, you
laugh on the totem post. So they always had the
bill covered. You know. So one thing, big ups to
Lamar l when off for the Clippers, he always covered
the bill. Uh you know you had you you had rip,
you know what covered the build a lot. That was good.
You know. We They never made me feel like I

(41:12):
had to put my two cents in my crowns, you know,
keep your chump change in your wallets. Right, you're okay,
you're getting off the perdem Like, man, I get them right.
I remember my first time I got NBA perdem was
like ninety five dollars a day. This is a b Yeah,
You're like, hold on, I could get used to this.
I could really get used. I got a funny story,

(41:33):
uh Brent Price to a friend of mine, and he
likes to tell the story that, um, what was the
name of a big dog not not not Robinson from
Purdue the big dog they had in Utah with the
glasses Utah. Okay, yeah yeah, So he goes so he

(41:55):
told me the story. He's like, yeah, we were in Utah.
We used to go on this like once a year.
We're going like a pit team, get fifteen day road
trip whatever. Yeah, right, and so whatever, the perdieum was
like ninety ninety five a day and you get it
like in cash. And like our first stop we went
somewhere and he's like this is right when like the
portable disc movie things came out. Oh yeah yeah yeah.

(42:21):
And they both they got a best Buy together, and
you know, big dogs got like a sweatshirt. He's got
his Oakleys on, and I got you know, like I
got a park on. We're on the road. We're like
in Minnesota and we go to a best Buy and
like he literally looked like my bodyguard, like, hey, big
I asked some big dock and I borrow some money
so I can get this you know, display play pay
cash board. You know, you reach into your chest pocket

(42:43):
and you pull out, you know, like two grand in
cash if you just right team right, you know, yeah
chump James to the dudes that stuck in the league,
But to everybody else it was okay, um, what is
the rehab like of coming off of Achilles? Ten? Uh?
The rehab for me it was the younger you are,

(43:08):
the better, the faster you're recovery. I had to, you know,
to to Achilles chick. My first one was my left
and uh I bounced back off that one. And that's
before I even played a day in the NBA, you know.
So I came I came into the NBA already broken,
you know. Um it was a blessing. I was able
to recover fast off that first Achilles tire. But it's

(43:31):
a lot of consistent rehabbing and do have to make
sure you don't miss any rehab, you know, the first
three three months. You know, the therapy and the rehab
is crucial. You know. Muscle memory is really important for
your body, you know, and you have to teach that
all over again, you know, And that's the frustrating parts,

(43:52):
like teaching the baby on the wall and you're looking
at your foot and you're like, when you please walk,
please walk, and it doesn't. You know, it's not an
ankles frame, you know. So you definitely have to let
you know, muscles hell and actually be able to be
committed to wanting to get back. You George the same
one twice or each differently. No, you know, I tore

(44:14):
the right one. I tore the right one in two
thousand and two thousand and five, two thousand and six
and tell you the truth. It went from maybe ten
months up healing ten eleven months to a year and
a half for the next one. You know, it definitely
took a toll on me to rehab at least get

(44:34):
back just to this level, you know, just to get
back to surface level, and then another you know, uh,
six months just to try to get your game back.
So you're looking at two years, Doug. I was burnt out,
you know, with you know, having a second keyly injury,
and I knew the level of competition wasn't going to
be I wouldn't be able to peek out. So you know,

(44:55):
I was making openings for me to go play and
overseas leaves at one high level, you know, I couldn't
keep up anymore. And you know at AB, you know
the A League, you go kind of be you know,
you will take certain places, um um, Philippines, Veniswagon, you know,

(45:18):
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(46:48):
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US Department of Health, the Human Services Administration for Children
and Families, and the ad Council. Yes, so when did
you decide I can't do this shit, I'm done? Oh,

(47:08):
great question, I would say, Uh, it just would have
to be. Actually it was. It was your inset and
my body just would not recover as fast as I
wanted to. And then you're looking at guys, you're laying
everything up. It's like, oh, Trady, you lost it. Huh,

(47:29):
you ain't got it no more. And I'm like, hey,
two points. It's two points. But then you tell yourself like, gosh,
I wish I could have you know, got up higher,
your reaction, you know, your step slow so people can
recover block your shot. You know people are recovering on you.
You go one way and come back left, they're already there.

(47:49):
You had. I already changed my gaming all right to
help fit my Now that game definitely called up to
my bad. So what's the way? Years for years of
Seri's like this has to be you know, my last
place that I played, uh, Doug was Sirius And when
I when, what was that? Like? Oh man, I mean

(48:10):
I was right, you know, only a fence separated me
in a Turkish embassy with guys having a k's on
their shoulders. I'm looking out to win them like wow,
I'm really just close, you know. Uh. It was an experience.
You know, you never saw women, so you only can
see their eyes. They they showed their bodies, you know,
do you only see their eyes? To me? A lot

(48:31):
of just dirt roads. I actually had some footage to Syria.
I'm trying to get off my hard dry uh and
if I can able to let people see what it is. Now,
what was the basketball? Like? The basketball wasn't that bad?
You know? Uh? They had a guy on there who
they called their, who called their Michael Jordan, who's actually good.

(48:52):
And I said, you know what, you're the best Syrian
I've seen played. And I said, if anybody that I've
seen that, it's serri In. He deserves a shot. He
was really good. But overall, you know, the competition was
where I wanted it to be. But then you have
to have everything worked out over there. And when you

(49:12):
don't get paid and you're on somebody else's soil for
the you know, first month or two, and you start
getting nervous and it's all these excuses and finally you
get you know, coming your mind. You just get uh
late with things. Yeah, and I gotta go, I gotta go,
and that that was I gotta go. Was I gotta

(49:32):
go home? And retired? So you called, you call Bill
Napp and just go, hey, I'm done. Did you just
let it? Let it? Let live for a while, like
how did you handle? You know what? I actually I
actually retired before before that. Before that, I played for
the North Dakota Business two thousand and nine and then

(49:54):
that was my last time playing in the States. Who's
your coach? Uh? It was a coach for the Kings
two years ago. He played coach for Dave Dave, Thank
you Dave. I played against Dave. Said Dave was the
coach the Dakota Wizards in the USBL as well, or
he was a coach in the USBLs. It was no
one of the Maybe, no he was. He was a

(50:15):
coach of a different team in the usb L. Yeah. Wow.
I played for the USBL to the Brooklyn Kings. But
that's another story too. What a year that was. Oh
that was before I even got into the NBA, so
that was probably good. That had to be like ninety
like oh, that had to be like yeah, yes, So

(50:36):
two thousand I played for the USBL Oklahoma Storm Okay, Yeah,
and we had a squad we had, I mean that
was that ship was crazy. I remembers yeah that Willie
Willie Burton. Um, yeah, yeah, Willie Willie Burton was one.
Who else we have? Uh? Yeah, we had um we

(50:59):
had a Bubble Wells Bubba Wells. That was I've ember Yeah,
I got I could go through the list of dudes
we had. We had really really good bunch of guys
that played, uh in the NBA. Okay, So um so
then what so you decide? All right, you thought you
were done, you go this here, you come back now

(51:20):
I'm now I'm done. Yeah, then what do you What
do you do? Because I do think that there's some
of those guys that are the elite level NBA guys,
it's hard for them to come down and to to
be have real life. But you've been You've had to
scrap for everything you've ever had. Yeah, So what did
you have a plan, like what do I want to
do when I'm not playing basketball? Uh? You know what,

(51:42):
it took a while for me to kind of get
I was, you know, kind of you know in a
in a in a days of what should I do next?
You know, that's a lot of us. And my thing
was I wanted to stay as close as possible, so
I said, let me just start training, you know, training
kids and coaching. And then I started doing AU and
then finally somebody said, hey, Tray, weren't you trying to

(52:04):
get back into the NBA? But this is just a
couple of years and three years out and you know,
knowing if I had that chance again, I never would
have took both my feet out the NBA. Once you
take both feet out, you know, you're pushed out. And
my thing was, I tried the yeah assistant coach's program
that they had in twenty fifteen and twenty seventeen, and

(52:27):
after that, I said, you know what, we gotta find
that it is consistent for me. So I said, well,
let me get a regular job and be a PE coach.
And I said, okay, let me go to school and
work with kids. And that kind of got me on
my second pattern, which was refereeing, and that led me
in and say, you know this, me close to the game,

(52:49):
A stay calls and I'm able to control something that
I had a passion for us so long ago. I'm
thinking at myself, like, man, I wish I would have
thought of this when I got out of the NBA.
I probably could be in the NBA reference. Yeah, yeah,
so you know it's not It's never too late. But
it's a passion that I'm loving to pursue now and

(53:10):
maybe after high school. You know, high school seasons back,
which is great, but my ill for myself to try
college basketball out and I got it. I got a
tea from an official this weekend. I want to ask
her if ask if you had a TV now, look
there were thirteen year old kids and I said it
and it was allowed Jim, but I did not yell
at him at all. Yeah. I had a dude come in.

(53:31):
He drove in and leans in with his shoulder and
guess what I thought was named one? He called offensive foul. Yeah,
and dude looked like you right, like he's like six
six like, guy looked like he was he had hooped, right,
So he comes well, he comes by me and I
was like, hey, man, you look like you played, so
you know that was a shitty call, right, That's what
I said. So he banged me and I was like,

(53:54):
what did you give me a tea? Boards like, man,
I'm a grown ass band, you know, be you know,
be c custing to me. I was like, what are
you even talking about? Yeah? Wow, see now I'm not surprised,
but I'm surprised that somebody that would be a former
ball that looked like they play ball. But yeah, actually
that sensitive and the thing to be where I have

(54:15):
a report with the players and the coaches and the family.
You know, you gotta put your ego to side. You
gotta set your ego down, set your pride to the side.
I never called texts on players and coaches unless you
really ask for it, because you have to have a report.
And a lot of rests want to control the game
where they get sensitive and they can't handle any little
you know, uh thing that somebody says, and they're quick

(54:37):
to see up somebody quick to throw parents, quick for
you know, telling a player, I'm gonna tee you up
next time. And that's where because I have a report
with everybody before the game. You know, my personality it spreads,
you know, on the court and you can see that's
gonna be a good game. And I don't have to
take it to a level you're able to talk some

(54:59):
message with it. Told me that. I was like, hey,
you know what, I'm gonna have to watch the tape again.
You might be you know it anybody any any anybody does? Um? Uh? Yeah?
Do you Does anybody know? Like, has there ever been
a dad or a coach accounty? Like wait, wait, okay,
this dude played at ABCD camp, he won state championships. Yeah,

(55:24):
he played at CAL at Fredsno. He played in the league.
You won an NBA championship. Right when you're running up
and down making calls like this? It does anybody know? Uh? Yes?
And it's it's pretty cool, uh that. You know. I
still sometimes I get that extra as one. You know,
I'm only an hour from Cal, you know, um two
hours from Fresnos. So teams from Cal, you know, from

(55:46):
the Bay Area and Fresno come up here all the time,
and you know, it feels good to say, hey, somebody said, man,
you were you were my favorite player in Fresno. Come
take it. I get a picture. You know, people see
in there like who is he? You know, who's this
guy right here? And uh, you know, and somebody might
come and say, hey, did you used to play ball?
And it just brings you back around to to when
you played, and you know, people kind of give me love.

(56:09):
And that's what I kind of like out this. You know,
people kind of remember, you know, not everybody. You know.
Somebody might even say, hey, you look like a guy
that played that cat. I'm like, flame, folks, Yeah, that's me.
I get I get you look like you, Doug Gotli
Like I get that all the time, right, not actually you,
but you look like him? Right? Yeah? What is that guy?

(56:33):
Is short, white, handsome? That's me? Um you said you
mentioned the book talking about the book. The book is
from the Shaw to the Chick, from Chris Shaw to
the championship man. And uh, we're working on a published
field right now, and I'm looking for it to be
out this summer, this summer, and it's gonna be a

(56:54):
good book, Dug. And I'm hoping that this book cannot
only get to the youth, you know, uh all the
way up to college and grown people. But I want
this story to be where I can just I can
have an impact on other players that had way more
success than I've had in the NBA, made way more money,
But what did happen after them? You don't have anything left?

(57:18):
You know, all the players I even looked up to
so uh and saw like wow, man, they lost all
that money. And maybe that story could help, just like
I said, with my story, help a lot of the
players that's coming up to not make that same mistake.
I mean, it's unbelievable now that you like I, like
Antoine Walker lose one hundred and something million, you know,
iverson waiting on this money to fall through. You know,

(57:41):
I'm glad that Rebox saw that you know, left some
money for him, you know, back in the story, so
he can have something, right, one hundred billion, a guy
like me only made a couple million okay before taxes, Okay,
so uh yeah, I had to pay four percent into
my agent and I lost Texas right right. And and

(58:04):
I wasn't I wasn't signing guaranteed deal, you know, five
year guaranteed deals. And I'm still telling this story so right,
So maybe this will help you know a lot of
players that you know, people can't believe that they lost
all that money and still if if you show that
you're still here to tell your story, that makes yourself
that much better and that much uh, that more, that

(58:26):
that respect is going to come back that much more.
You know, people want to hear the bad, the good,
the bad and ugly, and that's what the book tells you.
That tells you the unbelievable highs under the unbelievable lows,
and the midpoint that you had to stake you get
over the So it did. I'm gonna give you You're

(58:47):
getting copies soon as day the hard backs print. I'm
I'm gonna sending something to you. Tell me what you think, man,
I'll read it. I'll read it. I'm part so I mean,
I'm in it. Yeah, maybe of course you know I
named all the team makes an abcd. Okay, I mean,
did you get the part where my dad sat you?
Did you You didn't remember that? We got that in there.

(59:08):
We made a special Yeah, we make a special move
to get that in there because you told that story,
and that story was one of my bearers stories. Ever,
it's you mentioned, you mentioned this, and it's important, it's
ay you have you mentioned that even in the NBA.
You had to have a coach who had who gave
you confidence, that confidence in you. It's it's really a
hard thing. As a coach. We have to kind of

(59:29):
know a guy and know that all all of us
are insecure on some level. We need somebody is some
way to get that because we talk in and I
think in TV and radio, we talk about so many
things that don't matter, whereas what really matters is like, yeah,
what kind of condition you're conditioning because you're hired, right,

(59:50):
That can come from some dudes just can run all
day no matter what. Dudes can't right. Some dudes, you know,
Gary Payton could put down his last year, go to
shoot around, sleep all day, get up sloop at night,
man and just do it. Some guys I gotta be
in at ten o'clock every night, get the bed or
those I can't play. We don't talking abou about conditioning.
We don't talk enough about confidences. Confidence is you know,

(01:00:12):
like I couldn't shoot in college because I always felt
like if I missed, my coach to take me out.
So I was like if I don't shoot right right?
And then I played for a guy. H Do you
know mass track? Do you know MAS at all. So
his brother Mark just retired his women's coach at sc
MAS is like an assistant with the Wizards now with

(01:00:32):
Marcus Nashville. Huh what name as you say? Mas Track?
Mass Track? Okay, no, no, no no. So he was
coaching me in the ABA and he was like, look,
here's the deal. If you turn down a good shot,
I'm taking you out. Oh I love him already. I
love He's like, I'm not talking about a shitty shot.
You come open and you turned down a shot, I'm

(01:00:54):
taking you out. So I'll never get So we're playing.
We're playing the Detroit Dogs. I just got off a
plane from Israel because they're walking around the money. Yeah yeah,
and I got to meet them. I gotta meet them.
And mister Goldlib will you leave? We pay you eventually maybe,
you know? Like no, so I never got first. I'm

(01:01:15):
in layup lines. Okay. And this is what Syria reminds
me of. I can't remember what country Todd Bergen is
playing for the Detroit Dogs played against Syracuse. Tis a
good dude. Yeah, He's like, what do you what do
you just get back from us like Israel. It's like
he's like, oh, for real. I was in the Middle
East too. He's like, I was in um Ah. I

(01:01:35):
was in not Cutter, he was in um What was
the country that we attacked? Not Iraq? Next to it?
I ran, no, let me see in in the goal
for the first goal for what was that country? God? Camera,
hold up, I'll find it, okay, I can in my

(01:01:58):
memory or quit quait. I was like I was, I
was in. I was like, man, what was that like?
He's like, oh man, money was straight. He's like, couldn't
see the women he set their eyes? Good weed though.
I was like, all right, Todd, like anyway, I never
get like we come off of I like I come

(01:02:19):
off with a little horns like Mary for like, come down,
I check in the game. Come off with a little horns.
They roll, everybody drops back. I'm wide ass open. I'm like,
pass the ball like I just gotten in the game.
Takes me out of the game. He's like, what the
fuck did I tell you you turned out of the shot?
Coming out? It was awesome. It was awesome to confidences.

(01:02:41):
What was the best way to make you confident? Uh,
to tell me that, you know, not taking me out
after my mistakes, you know, and the coach just to
get in your ear and tell you that, like do please,
just like that. I guess a trickle down for everybody
else too, if they see that you had that confidence
and you're you know, and you're the guy too. At

(01:03:03):
the same time, that stills down on everybody else. They're saying, hey, coaches,
letting trade relax. He's out here pressing. Now I'm able
to make hoose and get you in the game, get
you in the game, knowing I'll be able to get
myself back. So it works out all different kinds of ways.
But the coach is so crucial, you know. It's implemental

(01:03:24):
on your success sometimes and uh, you know, for me,
I had some good ones. I had some bad ones.
But I have to say ended right there. You know something,
that's the best coach, best cor played for us for you,
not the best coach, but just coach for you. The
coach for me would be job right. You know. That
was an ibl for the Cincinnati uh stuff. Uh he

(01:03:45):
let he let me go one hundred a week, Uh
maybe yeah, about five yeah, about four yep, yep, five
hundred a week, two thousand a month. There you go,
And I was happy in Cincinnati. In the snow. So yeah.
But you know, coaches, hall of fame coaches. I loved
them all up, you know. You know, Jerry was good,
UMU coach Brown, Larry was great, Willie West was good,

(01:04:09):
great too. You know, I had some I was fortunate
enough to play for some legendary coaches. So now let
don't let me not mention there. You know, mentioned them.
They were great. But as far as the connection was going,
you know, Joby Wright definitely get a confidence, you know,
and that's quite only year when I averaged twenty you know,
in my life, you know, so I'm always gonna remember

(01:04:29):
that because that's part of having put up numbers is
you've got to have a coach on your side or
in your back pocket, you know, from a show to
the chip. Okay, that's me awesome And hopefully I'll see
you when we roll up to Sacramento or hit me
up when you come down back to back to your
old haunts in LA. I really appreciate your time to say.

(01:04:50):
This has been really fun, man. It's been fun. Man.
It's been so natural with us because we have so
many things that we related to. Man, so it's always
a pleasure. I like to do Man, I think I'm mind. No,
I think my ship, my ship's going to many kids,
give me my ship's going to. But you're black, so
it's not fair. You look good like that, like you're
You're gonna look the same age the rest of your life.

(01:05:11):
And I'm just gonna get older and older and older.
Oh man, hey, only taste one day. Man, I'm gonna
try to keep drinking my water right here. Man, all right, gee,
I appreciate you joining me. Yeah, hey, for real, man,
thanks for having me on. Man, we will be in contact.
I'll let you know, keep you up in favor, all right,
all right, all right, that's it for my boy t.

(01:05:32):
Folks join me. I really appreciate you downloading and listening.
We'll get you ready for the NBA playoffs and also
some NBA draft talk. Plus we have Brian Butch pods.
We have two of them that will drop next week.
Brian Butch all American Center at Wisconsin, his mere curial
general journey to broadcasting, all the different places he played,

(01:05:53):
and why he never made it to a game in
the NBA. That that's upcoming with our next pod. I mean,
I remember to listen to Doug Gotlieb Show daily three
to six Eastern twelve three Pacific on Fox Sport, trade
of the iHeartRadio app or wherever you download podcast in
the meantime, downloads shribe rate, write a review if you
like it you don't like it. Liking it and writing

(01:06:15):
all about it helps me. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is
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