March 4, 2024 • 42 mins
Colin looks at the Lakers loss to the Nuggets and while most people see this as a bad result, Cowherd explains why it's quite promising for LA. He tells you why he was right about Justin Fields and wrong about the Warriors. Plus, NBA insider Chris Mannix joins the show in studio pushing back against Colin's criticisms of the Boston Celtics.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh here we go. It is a Monday, lots to
talk about live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever
you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. One hour from
now customary on a Monday, where Colin was right and
where Colin was wrong. Spent the weekend watching a lot
of basketball, some NFL combine stuff, Jmac and don't be
(00:53):
fooled by some outcomes. Warriors last game of the road trap.
He'll be too fooled with that long If there was
a game Saturday night you and I had talked about going,
I sat home and watched the whole thing, maybe myself
some dinner. You ghosted me when I was out, no response,
could have had the phone off and just you know,
watched the game, but I the Lakers Nuggets game was fascinating. Okay,
(01:17):
and all the Denver Laker games last two years. Denver's
the best basketball team on the planet. Boston's probably second,
but they all look the same. The Lakers absolutely hang
with them, and about five six minutes ago, Denver ratchets
up their defense and Lakers don't get as many good shots,
and then Jamal Murray and Jokich kind of takeover. Saturday
(01:40):
night much of the same, and Denver wins narrowly, and
Laker fans were very upset. They were mad at Darvin Ham.
Anthony Davis only had seventeen points. The bench didn't deliver.
But I actually saw it differently. Let's start with this.
The Nuggets have four elite players. They are four best
players are all in their prime. Michael Porter, number one
(02:02):
high school player, first round pick, giving you seventeen a
night in the NBA. He went ten for ten to
start ten for ten in the game. Number four took
Aaron Gordon, one of the better bodies length in the NBA.
Top defender, had eighteen nine to five. Jamal Murray did
what he always does, twenty four points, eleven assists and
(02:22):
Jokich best player in the world, had thirty five, ten
and seven and shot sixty four percent. Their four best
players are all athletically in their prime. Okay, go look
at the Lakers. They have one elite player in their prime,
one Anthony Davis, and because of the injuries many in
his career, he's an old thirty. Lebron's not in his prime,
(02:46):
he's thirty nine years old. And Austin Reeves is not
an elite player. He wasn't even drafted. He's a really
good player who has overachieved in the NBA gives you
about fifteen to night. Good players should be a four
and a great team. But this is what the series
should be. It shouldn't be this close. If you go
look at NBA champions, NFL champions, World Cup champions, Baseball champions, generally,
(03:12):
the core of the team, the strength of it is
overwhelmingly guys in their prime. The Lakers have one elite
talent in their prime, Anthony Davis, who's always been a
little hit and miss offensively, tremendous defensively, and that's it.
And he's an old thirty. So the Lakers and Nuggets
(03:33):
the last two years have played a lot eleven times
in two years, and the point differential is only four
and a half against the world's best basketball team. Why
are the games usually that close? Because Lebron and Anthony
Davis are top twelve to fifteen players in the league,
maybe better. And the Lakers have championship length, which is
(03:55):
the only way to compete with Denver the Warriors and
seven against Denver the Clippers one in six lose by
an average of nine. The Sons are four and seven
and lose by eight to eight and a half points.
A game Lakers Nuggets is always close, And what it
tells me is Lebron in year twenty one is only
(04:16):
missing a dependable number three talent and they didn't get
him at the deadline. Be mad at the front office.
Don't be mad at Ad, don't be mad at Austin Reeves.
The Nuggets have four elite players, the top high school
first round, best center in the world, best player Jamal
Murray Kentucky. These are elite guys, all in their prime.
(04:40):
Lakers have like half of one in Anthony Davis. It's okay.
Anthony Davis talked about it all. Nugget Laker games look
the same mostly, Oh.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yes, we're going closer as far as you know the
first you know, I guess forty two minutes, you know,
or you could say even forty four minutes, all right,
and then then that last four minutes is just dimmed
into what they get to and you know, they make
us pay on our mistakes. Like I say, you know, granted,
(05:14):
you know they made tough shots, but they get to
it every time, and you know what's coming with their
great execution team.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
You tell me, if the Lakers had four elite players
in their prime, like you know, a Shaq and a
Kobe and a Rick Fox and a Derek Fisher, and
the Nuggets had like three quarters of one, would you
expect the games always to be this close? This is
what Laker nugget games should look like. The Lakers championship
size can compete with them. Clippers don't necessarily sun struggle,
(05:48):
Warriors don't match up at all. Lakers lost the way
they're going to lose against Denver when you just don't
have that level of talent with five to six minutes
to go in the game. So I saw this over
the weekend. There's a lot of talk about the Dak
Prescott extension. Here's what I noticed with the Cowboys over
the weekend, Tyron Smith left tackle. Right now, the Cowboys
(06:10):
and Tyron Smith left tackle are miles apart, And it
made me think about this, have they wasted his career?
So when I started watching football was like in the
early seventies. I remember sitting watching a black and white
TV watching Washington lose to Miami in the Super Bowl.
The first great offensive line I ever heard talked about
(06:31):
was those Miami Dolphins, and they went to three straight
Super Bowls and won a couple of them. Then it
was the Steelers followed them. Mike Webster the all time
great center. They went to four Super Bowls. Great offensive
line after that, in the late seventies early eighties, the
Raiders were legendary. Announcers talked about their offensive line. They
got two super Bowl wins. And then I think the
(06:55):
Washington remember they were called the Hogs. They got to
four super Bowls. That was a great all time offensive line.
The Cowboys with Jimmy Johnson similarly pushed people around for
seasons three super Bowls. The only two offensive lines that
I can recall that had been stacked with Pro bowlers,
all Pro Hall of Fame guys that didn't get consistently
(07:17):
to Super Bowls are the Kansas City Chiefs. Trent Green
was the quarterback, Willie RoAF, Will Shields, Brian Waters, dominant
offensive line Ray Lewis. To this day you ask him
the team he hated to play, It wasn't a Steelers.
It was Kansas City. Mauled teams, but they had Trent Green.
And the other is Dak Prescott. In the Dallas Cowboys
(07:39):
o line, Tyron Smith will be a first ballot Hall
of Famer, eight time All Pro, arguably first or second
best left tackle since the end of the league. Zach
Martin's made nine Pro Bowls, seven to All Pros, maybe
the best guard in league history. And then Travis Frederick
had to retire early, a little bit of late row early.
(08:00):
Dak five time All Pro may have made ten if
he stayed around. Dominant player, retired early and from that
to playoff wins. Think about this. The NFC has gotten
weaker over the last five years. That's indisputable. Even the
(08:22):
Detroit Lions, who this year established themselves as having the
best offensive line in the league. Left tackle, center, right tackle.
They the Detroit Lions, the sad sack of the NFL
for twenty five thirty years. The Detroit Lions finally have
the best offensive line in the league, and they won
two playoff games this year. Dallas had a run of
(08:44):
about seven eight nine years mostly Dak's career with three
Hall of Fame level left tackle center, best guard to
ever play in a weekend NFC two playoff wins. Now
the Eagles all, I don't know if it stacks up
historically good Kelsey Lane Johnson, but it's been really, really,
(09:06):
really good one two or three in the league several
years they got to two Super Bowls. So you can
blame who you want. You can blame the end of
Tony Romo's career. People love to blame Tony Romeo. You
can blame Dak. I would say, there's clearly a lower
ceiling than you'd prefer. But boy, Tyron Smith, when I
hear the Cowboys or Miles apart, you have wasted this
(09:29):
all time great offensive line. There was a reason they
went first round picks an old line because it was
bad for years, Tony Romo running for his life. Then
late Romo and Dak got an old timer. Two PLATF
wins in a week in an FC. Here's Jerry this
weekend talking about Tyron Smith, Dak extensions and all that.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
We don't need to, but we can if everybody wants to.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Solve it, you can't. And so.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
The how as you get in and get on the
same page and see if you can come to an agreement.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
If you can't, what we have in place works.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Dak can play better, and he had maybe you could
argue one of the best years he's ever had in
his career. But the good news is that I'm convinced
that he can play better, and I can. I'm convinced
that we can do some things better all the way around.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
And so we're all in. Never going to have an
offensive line in Dallas as good as that one. It's
just not going to happen. Washington has never had an
offensive line that duplicated that one. Either of the Raiders,
either of the Dolphins. Their weakness is the on line,
even if the Steelers their weakness. O line happens very
infrequently when you draft offensive lineman high and they all hit,
(10:59):
and for Detroit they have and they've already produced two
playoff wins with one year having what's regarded as the
best O line in football. We don't talk about them
a lot, but they matter j Matt Colin Wright Colin
wrong in one hour. So the combine was interesting. They
are saying ironically that it's the best O line class
(11:20):
that anybody's ever seen. Six seven tackles, multiple interior a lignemen.
Very non exciting for football fans. But if you need
a tackle, Jets, this is the year to need.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
I don't know, I'd rather take Tyron Smith than drafting
some guy, wouldn't you. I mean, Tyron Smith, no excellent
ro Football Focus fourth grade left tackle in the league
last year. I mean, yeah, I get you want to
draft a guy that early, but Tyron Smith's gonna have
a big market, bigger.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Than Justin Fields, by the way, who increasingly doesn't look
like he has one. Dak can't be thrilled with this news.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Huh, you're taking away my star left tackle.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I wonder if we could go look it up what
Dak's record is with Tyron Smith and without remember there
was an Amari Cooper number for years and years, like
he missed Amari Cooper. But now that Ceedee Lambs and
number one one.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
It has been a Lane Johnson one with the egangild
right tackle r.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Listen. When Tom Brady went to Tampa, the one thing
Tom talked about with their GM was you got to
get your tackles right. They drafted Tristan Worse from Iowa
and he was a home He was like Pro Bowl
level by year one.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Also Trent Williams with Rock Perty. He missed like I
think a game and a half or two games last
year and it was like night and day like party's like.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Oh no, Mahomes only has been routed in one big
game of his life, the Super Bowl, when he was
dressing both tackles, no tackles. We don't talk about him.
They matter.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
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Speaker 1 (12:59):
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Speaker 1 (13:16):
All right, Monday, Our two live in Los Angeles. It's
the Hurt wherever you may be and however you may
be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
Albert Breer was at the Combine. Lot of Information. Best
offensive line class ever, stack wide receivers, a lot of quarterbacks,
some rising, some falling. Jmac listening to you during the
(13:39):
break about youth sports. I am so glad my kids
are in their twenties. I will just say so glad.
I'm not arguing with mom and Dad's about playing time. No, no,
I'm not. Other teams are just a quick question. If
you have five players.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
On your team and the opponent has four in a basketball,
do you play five on four with the man advantage
and you pull back if you're winning, or do you
say we'll just do four on four and have a subec.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, for you sports, I do four on four with
a sub. We didn't do that close game.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
We won by one, but like, why why should you
penalize your team and have to sit a guy?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Well, maybe a kid was sick, Maybe a kid was
in the van.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Maybe other kids are doing too many other sports and
not prioritizing basketball.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
That's probably a healthier way to go through life. I
don't know. I don't think my You don't think they're
all going to the NBA. Nobody where you live will
ever play in the NBA.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
By the way, shocker, I thought I was NBA bound
in like sixth grade, seventh grade.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
There are weekends you come in and still think you're
NBA bound, all right, Colin right, Colin wrong? In a Monday,
here we go where Colin was right? Remember those trading
deadline rumors about Lebron being moved and I said they
were ridiculous. He's the heartbeat of the team. Well he's
now their leading scorer. They're leading assis. Guy leads them
in plus minus and Saturday night was another example. He's
(14:54):
the soul of the Lakers, not a d I mean
twenty six ' nine Anthony Davis didn't score many bench
didn't give him squat, scored about a dozen points. But
Lebron James once again the best basketball player consistently on
this team can play both ends. The smartest late game
player maybe in the league. The trade rumors were nonsense,
(15:17):
where Colin was rong. I mean, I don't even think
I was really wrong, but I'll give one for the team.
The Warriors got hammered by fifty two by the Celtics
last game of an East game road trip. Hey we're
getting destroyed. They had no legs. But I will say
this is that you know, these games, these national TV
games between two contenders matter, and for the Warriors to
(15:39):
basically decide we're not going to guard Jason Tatum's it
was a strategy. Not when I would employ, but it
was a strategy. We know Boston's good. I think Golden
State's still good, but god, they were awful yesterday. Where
Colin was right, I've been saying it now for a
couple of years. International players are more focused than our players,
more mature. Victor Wima thirty one and twelve. Yesterday, I
(16:02):
said when he came out, one of the top prospects
I've ever seen. And I'm a big believer in European players.
They play against older men when they're young. They come
in more focused, not distracted, none of the Jahn Morant nonsense.
In the end, Victor wimbin Yama is a top twelve
player in the league in my opinion right now. That's
what he feels like since basically January. He's a dominating
(16:27):
defensive player, a consistent offensive player, and his three point
shooting is remarkably deft considering how young he is. We've
been right mature focus from international players. They get good
fast and don't screw up where Colin was raw. I'm
(16:47):
apparently way off on the JJ McCarthy field. The Michigan quarterback,
I don't really see it, but multiple executives, I mean
Dan Graziano's hearing he's a top ten pick. Ian Rappapol
said he'll be absolutely the fourth quarterback taken.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I will say his measurables did him a favor. He
came into the combine. The feeling was he was six
three to two oh two. That is indisputably light. He
measured at six two to two nineteen. That's Aaron Rodgers.
That's a different player. So the difference between sixty three
and two oh three and sixty two and two nineteen, Now,
I don't have any concerns now is it water weight?
(17:26):
Are they stacking him up? I don't know. It's not
the NBA. You're not running off six thousand calories a
night and traveling, so you can keep weight on once
you get it on. In the NFL. So JJ McCarthy
looks like J mack, who was on it a year ago,
is going.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Hi where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I've always been mystified by the Justin Fields love by
the media. His second half numbers are Zach Wilson well.
According to John Middlekoff, who was at the combine, my
buddy the pro scout told me last night. Within the league,
he doesn't have much of a market. Kirk Cousins is
the quarterback that many teams are discussing. He may be costly,
(18:03):
but he gives you a one hundred passer rating, wins
a lot of games, good in the fourth quarter. Listen,
Justin Fields as talented, but when you're a turnover machine
with accuracy issues and get hurt a lot, what do
I love? I think the fans in the media are
buying into the spectacular, and that is not what wins
games in the NFL. Consistency in elevating others. What Kirk
(18:26):
Cousins does that wine of ten games a year in
the league. Where Colin was right, I said, with Shoe Aotani,
it's going to be bigger than anything we've seen modern day.
Babe Ruth spring training games, can't get a seat, takes
you forty five minutes to get into the game. It
is real right now, he has got on base in
seven straight games, totally locked in. Dave Roberts said it
(18:51):
usually takes a couple of months for players to get
locked in. Dave Roberts said, he's already locked in. So
and it's Marks. What Mark's third, March fourth. I'll make
a prediction and you're seeing it in spring training. The
Dodgers will average close to fifty thousand per game now.
They already led major League Baseball in attendance last year
by about seven thousand people a clip. It's not the
(19:13):
easiest stadium to get to, beautiful stadium, but I think
he get up around fifty thousand per home game. Where
Colin was wrong. Mac Jones, according to two executives, is
worth a fifth or a sixth round pick on the market.
Timeout As a rookie, he had a passer rating in
(19:36):
ninety two and a half, and he completed sixty seven
percent of his throws. Don't we blame some of this
on Belichick and their tone deaf offensive culture. I mean
Trey Lance got a fourth round pick. He can't get
a fourth round pick. I give up a fourth round
pick for Mac Jones. Most fourth round quarterback picks can't
make the league. He started as a rookie was kind
(19:58):
of good Y's I was wrong on that where Colin
was right. We've always said the NFL, more than any league,
adapts evolves. What do you know they're proposing new NFL
kickoff rules. I like both of them. First of all,
the NFL does not like automatic kickoffs. Now automatic ones
return to game. They want to create a zone that
(20:19):
will increase the number of kickoff returns. It will go
from one a game to probably eight. And they want
the on sidekick to be used less frequently because it's
so automatic. Now the kicking team never recovers forty five
attempts last year, two recoveries. What they want is fewer attempts,
only in the fourth quarter. But you can use an
uneven line, so the percentage recovered by the kicking team
(20:43):
will probably go up to twenty five thirty percent. I
like them both, whether it works or not. I like
growth proposals. People don't like new stuff. I appreciate the swing, NBA,
NFL take swings. Don't know what's worked. Live with that.
Where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
On a Monday, be sure to catch live editions of
The Herd weekdays and noon Eastern not a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Chris Mannix has been in Milwaukee. He knows these Celtics.
He did not like my take, which I didn't even
think it was a negative. The Buffalo Bills, for big
chunks of my life have been unbelievably talented star quarterback,
really well run and no trophies. And it's like now
Boston obviously as a history, but if you go back
(21:32):
to Boston thirty five years, they've had a lot of
good teams. This arguably is as I mean, it's it's
not quite KG Paul Pierce round, but it's good. But
my criticism is I've seen this team blow people out
for three years. We love the Drew Holliday move, but
he's gonna be thirty three thirty four pretty soon, and
he's played those a lot of miles. He defends he's
(21:53):
on the floor that let those are Tony Allen years
like these. He's not a guy out there hitting jays.
He's gonna age. I think team, I think this year
is really really important.
Speaker 7 (22:04):
Okay, that's the only thing out of your mouth I
agree with at this moment, because in the pantheon of
wild takes, that's that's a pretty wild one. Comparing them
to the Buffalo Bills doesn't make sense because the Bills
in those early nineties, they were a team that from
the first Super Bowl to the fourth Super Bowl were
a complete team. They were they were peaking around those years.
(22:27):
This Celtics team was not peaking two years ago when
they were still a pretty young team. Last year, you
have the head coach of your team go out in
a sex scandal days before the start of training camp,
and you're trying to fix things on the fly, not
to excuse losing to Miami in the conference finals. And
(22:48):
that's another one, another beef I have with you there.
You said earlier that a Celtics Denver series you have
one to Malone one.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Because of Michael Malone.
Speaker 7 (22:57):
Now, I like Michael Malone as a head coach, but
you are looking at Joe Missoula like he's the coach
from last season, the coach that had a deer in
a headlights look for a long time, who came from
the back of the bench to take over a championship
level team and had to learn how to be a
head coach.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
With a bunch of assistants.
Speaker 7 (23:15):
Some of them they probably didn't like him very much
because they probably thought they deserve to get the jayir.
This year, he has a full training camp, a full offseason.
He was able to bring in the assistant coach he wanted.
He's got Charles Lee who's going to be a head
coach someday, Sam Cassell who's going to be a head
coach someday. And he has shown incredible growth this year
as a head coach. How many times, Colin have you
(23:38):
talked about the Joe Mizula gaffes from last season, the
not calling timeouts in key moments, the too much three
point shooting. Yeah, the South that shoot a lot of threes,
but they win a lot of games because they're top
five in the NBA in three points.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
This team is I would say this sometimes Marcus Smart,
I thought had a greater opinion of his offense than
I think Drew Holliday could score more, doesn't need to.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
You want the number one offensive team in the league,
you want him to score more.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
No, I think I think Drew Holiday fits because Drew
Holliday has I always felt Marcus Smart wanted to prove
I can take games over. He might take was don't
do that right. Holliday could, but doesn't feel a need
to do it. He's a more seamless third score. He
can score, but it's not his thing. I don't know
if he could.
Speaker 7 (24:25):
I mean, part of the reason the Bucks made that
trade is they needed a guy who could take over,
who could provide offense that Giannis couldn't, and that was
Damian Lillard. Think about how good the Celtics are offensively.
You have the Golden State Warriors, who have as much
brain power on that bench as any team in the NBA.
Steve Kirk, Kenny Atkinson, that entire bunch championship players on
(24:48):
that roster, and their best strategy to play the Celtics
was to leave an all NBA forward who chose thirty
six percent from three career wise, wide open the entire game.
That was their strategy coming in. We're going to leave
Jalen Brown open and we're going to try to win.
That way didn't work for him. The Celtics have so
many offensive options that all Drew Holliday has to do
(25:09):
issued a decent percentage from the floor and play the
kind of defense he's known for.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
But the big butt is that the East is pretty weak.
I mean, listen, Randall Brun said, Nick need another score.
They didn't do the trade deadline. I appreciate their patience.
They've been impatient my entire adult life. I appreciate it.
Milwaukee's not there yet. We'll get to them in a second.
M beads out forget it, or Cleveland's good, Mitchell's gone
(25:34):
next year. Maybe at the trade deadline. I feel like
they're a little hot and cold for me. You think
Mitchell's going to the Knicks, I don't quite buy that.
I think Trey Young Lakers. I think Trey Young feels
like La and Lebron tends to with the players he respects.
And I know he knows Trey because I went to
an event this year and they were both at it.
Clutch sports guy so and I don't think. I don't
think Trey Young works with Jalen Brunts and he's too loose.
(25:57):
Donovan Mitchell shoots a lot, but I think he it's
better any well strong. So here's the other thing about
let's just talk at titles. Okase he's too young to
win one more year, watch out. Denver's in their prime.
Got to get past them. I don't trust Minnesota, but
I do like their coach, and they've got size Lakers.
(26:17):
I thought needed to make a move this year. Eighty
is finally healthy. But my takeaway is you can't take
the East where the Celtics are thirty three and six.
I don't care, they're gonna fly through the East. The
West is a whole different ballgame. I agree.
Speaker 7 (26:34):
While I think Denver's the clear favorite to win the West,
they're not as clear favorite to win that conference as
the Celtics are to win the Eastern Conference, because, right
they're gonna have some beasts to go through along the way.
The teams you mentioned put the Clippers in that mix,
who when they're fully healthy, they're as good as any
team I think in the Western Conference. So I think
(26:54):
Denver is going to be banged up a little bit
on their way to the NBA Finals. Now that that
may not matter because what Denver's showing right now is
that the first part of the regular season that didn't
really matter to them all that much. So it's still
some championship hangover. They were trying to work in some
new guys. It was tough for some of the stars
to get motivated. What we've seen over the last ten
(27:17):
games where Michael Porter Junior's offense has taken off, Nikola
Jokic is playing great, the defense has locked down, Kyton Watson,
Christian Brown fitting.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Right into the roll.
Speaker 7 (27:27):
Yeah, really good bench guys vacated by Bruce Brown and
Jeff Green.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Really good.
Speaker 7 (27:30):
They are starting to rev that engine up a little bit,
and when they do, they're going to be really tough
to beat.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
All Right, We'll circle back to the to the Celtics
because I've been saying this for years with him, is
that people, And maybe I'm guilty. I think Tatum's the
best domestic player in his prime in the NBA, and
I think Stephan good Nights is better, and I think
he's about the eighth best player in the league. That's
what I think he is around there. I still do
have and this is not a criticism, but I think
(27:58):
initially he trained with Kobe, and there was feeling that
he was going to keep moving up and then that
the exclamation point would be he is the go to guy.
And my takeaway is, I don't think he has that personality.
I think he's an All Star. He's a first team
or the best player on the second team All Star.
I mean, MVP consider it, but I do think what Tatum.
My take is, we're annoying him to a position he's
(28:18):
not really his personality. He's a willing passer, he doesn't
have to take the final shot. I mean, there were
times in Kobe's career shocks like I can't play with him.
Nobody ever says that with Tatum. Michael Jordan wore people
out before Pippin, Phil Jackson taught Tatum's not this next letter.
This is what he is and what he is is.
(28:39):
I think Jokic is better. There are other guys in
the league I trust with the ball. With a minute left,
I think you're right about his personality.
Speaker 7 (28:46):
It's not what Kobe Michael, some of those guys not
who he is.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Not who he is.
Speaker 7 (28:53):
That doesn't mean he can't be a closer championship team.
I think what Jason Tatum has done this year has
contributed mightily to why the Celtics are in the position
that they're in. His willingness to take a step back,
to make it a priority to involve Kristaps Porzingis and
make him the twenty point staff, the twenty point per
game score.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
That he is.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
Yes, it is a very Steph Curry, yeah type of move,
But in the fourth quarter of games, there aren't many
players that can go to the bag that Jason Tatum
can go to. He can score off the dribble, he
gets the free throw line. Now three point shot is legit.
He is one of the more efficient post players in
the NBA this year. He has become that guy this year,
both in terms of passer and a shot maker. So
(29:33):
when you have that entire bag that you can go
to down the stretch last three or four minutes, probably
not more than a handful of guys I'd want with
the ball in their hands more than Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
All Right, you know I'd come across like a hater.
I'm really not. Okay, A Sacramento King's line was a
bit hurtful. I love those Kings team. I like those
Kings teams way more than this team. You guys all
want me to light the beam. I'm over it. The
beam has been extinguished. I watched it last year, the
old Kings teams. I loved Okay, you spent time with
the Bucks when I first watched him. It's like creating
(30:03):
a new show. You got to give it a year. Dame,
your turn, Jannis, your turn. Jannis has been a bit westernized.
He's getting less patient. Got a coach run out. Probably shouldn't.
What do you make in Milwaukee? You spent a week
and a half with him?
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yeah, I spent about a week right before the All
Star break with them at home, and then went in
the row with them to Memphis. I think they're trending
in the right direction, and I think that the decision
to fire Adrian Griffin and replace him with Doc Rivers
was the right one. Doc has taken a beating over
the last couple of weeks for some of the things
that he said, and as blunt as he's been, but
(30:38):
his philosophies makes sense. One of the things he did
immediately when he came in was say, we're trying to
do too much defensively. Let's get back to who we are.
The bread and butter defenses that made us great. Over
the last five games where the Bucks are five and zero,
they're the number one defense in the NBA during that stretch.
That is an impressive mark for the Milwaukee Bucks. And
(30:59):
since Doc has taken over, they have progressively climbed the
defensive rating standings in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
If Doc was a good defensive player, is he known
as somebody that he's had good defensive teams?
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Right?
Speaker 7 (31:10):
But it all depends in part on the personnel. But
I'm telling you what he did was take away a
lot of the gimmicky stuff that Milwaukee was doing and
got them back to being kind of the pure, tough
defensive team you hunt over that scree good length, Yeah,
you use your length. You bank on Brook, Lopez and
Giannis and the pain. He's gotten them back to that.
And really, if you're Milwaukee, you don't need to be
(31:31):
the top five defensive team you've been in years past
to be successful in the playoffs because you've got firepower.
Now you've got Damian Lillard in that rotation and he's
going to be a threat in the postseason. If they
can just be a top ten, top twelve defensive team,
they are the biggest threat to Boston the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I want to talk, so I said Saturday night. It
was interesting. I watched the Lakers Nuggets, and I watched
them play several times. They played eleven times in two years,
and the games are come down to four to four
and a half points, which is the Clippers don't match
up with them, Phoenix doesn't match up with Denver. A
lot of people don't match up with Denver. Nick strangely
do Lakers do because of their size and Lebron can
kind of control the tempo, and you know, at the
(32:11):
end of games, Yokich and Jamal Murray just get more
good shots. They got four players in their prime. Lakers
have kind of one elite player, which is a d
and he's an old thirty because of injuries. But my
takeaway at watching the game was, which has been my
take all year, is Lakers match up great with Denver.
The difference is they don't have as many good players
in their prime. And I don't trust D'Angelo Russell Reeves
(32:32):
will give me eighteen a deal, you know, give me
seventeen to twenty three. Lebron will be spectacular, and de
Loo could give me eight points twenty four three assists nine.
I think the Lakers when I watch them now, I'm like, damn,
they should have made a move at the trade deadline. Yeah,
but what move?
Speaker 7 (32:48):
There wasn't one out there, Like, would you give up
the one first round pick you can deal to get
Bruce Brown? Does that move to Leedle enough? It's Denver Nuggets.
I understand what the Lakers were thinking in doing nothing.
I feel like they need another shot maker, absolutely, but
you couldn't get that at the trade deadline, not with
the assets the Lakers have. You get to June and
you've got three first round picks, the deal you've got,
(33:09):
and you know contracts that are one year less that
you can potentially trade in the case of Dangela Russell,
you think they'll make a big one. I think they'll
make a big move this offseason.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Now, okay, let me throw it. So that's interesting. So
I've got the picks and and uh expiring contracts. So
a big move is what You're gonna need picks and
two expiring contracts to get Trey Young. I think Trey
Young feels like I don't think Trey Young works with everybody.
He's he's a handful Lebron makes Lebron is the He
(33:38):
just smooths the edges off.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
All players and shooters tend to play well opposite Lebron's
just right.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I mean, uh, you know, before he got to Cleveland,
people forget this about Kyrie the knock walls, can't stay healthy, diva.
People didn't like him. An hour later, we're like, best
ambidextri ambidextrous player in the league, best finisher, a small
guy in league history. That happened really fast. I think
Trey Young works for the Lakers. Donovan Mitchell goes to
(34:06):
the next They need a second guy. A lot of
people push back on Trey Young. You can't play with him.
Do you buy that? I buy that. You don't love him.
Speaker 7 (34:15):
I think he's the best player that I can think
of that's going to be available this offseason. The two
best players that might be available via trader, both in Atlanta.
I mean, Trey Young and de Jonte Murray are going
to be sought after commodities this offseason. Trey Young makes
sense because the Lakers' offense stinks. Right, They're seventeenth in
offensive efficiency, They're thirteenth from three point range, and this
(34:37):
is not an aberration. This is who the Lakers have been,
even their championship year. They were not a great offensive
team last year in the postseason, and it made a run.
They did it backed by defense, great defense. It wasn't
great offense. The Lakers need a great offensive player. I
think Trey Young makes a lot of sense. You can
deal three first round picks, you can deal some swaps,
you can deal expiring contracts. You can make a move
(34:58):
that would probably tice Atlanta to make that deal.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
J Mack I always said you should like him. He's
got your game, not much attention to defense, and difficult
to play with. But I will say there are players
that you know, just certain guys were. By the way,
Kyrie now playing well with Luca, so that's kind of working.
Don't think it does anything in the postseason. Let me
throw this at you. When you heard Lebron say this,
(35:26):
everybody when I came into the league wanted to see
me fail. That was kind of projecting as a psychologist.
I don't remember anybody rooting against him.
Speaker 7 (35:35):
I'm sure Lebron look athletes interpret things differently, right, I'm
sure there were people that wanted to see Lebron fail,
And I'm sure he heard some of those voices, Sure
and amplified some of those voices. But the vast majority
of people were excited to see Lebron succeed. This was
a time in the NBA where they were searching for
(35:57):
a face. Kobe had kind of taken that man until
Michael was at the back end of those Wizards years.
They were looking for that next great generational start. Here
comes Lebron. And I remember watching that very first game
against Sacramento when he had twenty something points six. This
is kind of flirt of the triple double in that game, thinking, Wow,
this guy is as good as advertised. So back in
(36:19):
two thousand and three, a vast majority of the people
wanted to see Lebron James succeed. Now fast forward to
twenty ten, and yes, everybody wanted to see him fail.
When you go to Miami and you leave Cleveland behind
and you do it in the way that he did
with the decision, it turned everybody against him completely. But
from the very beginning, I don't know where that demographic was.
(36:44):
The people that were rooting Lebron understand Boston didn't love
him because you guys had KG Paul Pierre like it
was your time. Yeah, but he was a young guy
on the team that was rebuilding. He wasn't really a
threat until two thousand and seven and they went to
the finals, and the rivalry with Boston didn't really pick
up until two thousand and nine, twenty ten.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
All right, let's circle back to the Celtics. So, mister,
this guy literally is on the Reddit boards Jason Tatum
fan guy all week. If the Celtics, you know, poor Zingish,
across your fingers on his health. So let's say the
Celtics get to the finals and they just don't match
up with Denver. It just doesn't look good. And now
poor Zingish you cross your fingers on health, and all
(37:25):
of a sudden, Drew Holiday is now thirty four. Do
you think? And I'm projecting, but boy, Boston's an overwhelming
favorite to get I would be shocked. In fact, I
would be surprised if they don't sweep a series and
maybe two. Yeah, like, I think there's that much better
they just it's the best starting five, hands down, at
least in the West. There are other comparable starting fives.
(37:46):
There are dangerous to oh case, he's too young, but
they can score, can't rebound, but they can score and
they get extinguished by Denver and it doesn't look highly competitive.
Do they make a move then? So if my take
is so zany, then that should mean if they go
and lose again in the finals, the feeling is we
are we are reluctant to change. I feel like if
(38:08):
they don't win now we start looking at Tatum going
bro come on now, Steph took it to the cleaners,
Wiggins felt bigger, Jokich, Murray.
Speaker 7 (38:19):
I think if they lose this year, your take is
less zany than it is right now because this year
everything there's no lingering issues.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
There's no we're too young, there's.
Speaker 7 (38:31):
No our coach is inexperienced, there's no there's a finals
team that we could play that's more experienced than we are.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
All those things are completely off the table.
Speaker 7 (38:40):
And yeah, if they get beat bad by a team
like Denver in the finals, I could see them making
some changes because Brad Stevens has been proactive from day one. Yeah,
on this job, he is like he didn't need to
make changes. Last year they were one win away from
going to the finals. Marcus Smart is a beloved figure
in this in the city of Boston. Yet he goes out,
makes that deal. Drew holiday in porzingis in. Both of
(39:03):
those have worked. Yeah, we both those work. So if
they fail this season and look, failure can look like
a few different things, right. I think failure is getting
beaten five games by Denver in the finals. If they
go to seven and loose the Nuggets, that's necessarily different.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
But if they either.
Speaker 7 (39:18):
Lose in the conference playoffs or lose bad in the
NBA Finals, then we can have start talking this wack
ad take of yours about the Sacramento Kings and the
Buffalo Bills because.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
They are just not there yet. Calm.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
They are legit this year and they're gonna be a
problem for whoever they play in the finals.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Hey, light the beam, Nick, Right, was.
Speaker 7 (39:38):
That team ran into the LA That team wasn't even
that bad. They were the LA Lakers year after year.
The Celtics don't have it LA Lakers out there in
their conference week.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
He's just weaker than I thought. I thought. I liked it.
But you know, mbad's injury, m beat injury.
Speaker 7 (39:49):
Although the Celtics have owned the Sixers the last few
years that I'm not sure that would have changed the
result of that.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
You know, I remember last year watching Boston play Milwaukee.
In my take was, man, Milwaukee looks slow and old.
Boston looks so much more athletic. And I still I
still have qu I mean, Dame's not a defender, so
he's not it's and it's not like they got younger. No,
and they're an older team than Milwaukee. Think they're the
oldest team in the league.
Speaker 7 (40:13):
Yeah, and there that that affects their athleticism. Yeah, they've
got some problems all that in But by the way,
you're you're Donovan Mitchell to the next take is you
gotta they gotta get a second then Mitchell, it can't
be Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
It can't be.
Speaker 7 (40:27):
You can't win with too much No, you too small guards,
you can't win with That's the problem Cleveland's run into
the last couple of years with Mitchell and Darius Garland
right like, they they're too small in that backcourt to
succeed at the highest So what would the Knicks go.
I mean, they will keep hunting the biggest of big names.
They will keep hunting Giannis if things go south in Milwauk.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
So that so that's been my take. Ryan, do we
have this tape. I said, if if Jiannis doesn't win
a second one with Dame, he's been westernized. Yeah, he
got coaches fired, like hes now wants to. He understands
the game. European players come over, they play nine, and
then all of a sudden they see how aggressive our
media is. Yeah, and we're like, yeah, you won a title.
You got to get to two and three. Michael got six,
(41:08):
Bill got eleven. Like I think he kind of feels
like now it's almost like Calipari Kentucky. There's a huge
gap between one title and two one. There's a million
guys with the title, and I think Giannis if they
regress in the playoffs, I think he's going to go
to the front office.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
And to be clear, he signed that contract this past
year which was as much about the machinations of the
salary cap to enable him over the next two contracts
to get the maximum possible dollar. Yes, it was viewed
as a commitment to Milwaukee, but it was really about
making sure he got max dollar.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I'm with you on this one.
Speaker 7 (41:41):
If they get beat in the second round of the playoffs,
there could be a problem. I don't know that for sure,
but there could be a problem with Janson Milwaukee. That's
why teams like the Knicks have been keeping their powder
dry as best they can, because there are still teams
looking to gear up.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
And make a run Jiannis in the offseason. Chris Manning's
good stuff. Push him back, love it. See that combative stuff. Yeah,
but his stuff makes sense. I had to talk him
off the ledge. He had five little kids on his team.
The other team, you know, some kid got the chicken
pox or something. They only had four. He didn't take
a player off the team. He's like, full court press.
(42:17):
Let's douse him. Wow, that's very aggressive with children. That's
very aggressive coaching. You got Bobby Night over here. These
guys have I admire the press. I would have done that,
but he was like Rich Patino, full court press on
the Division three team
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh here we go. It is a Monday, lots to
talk about live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever
you may be and however you may be listening. Thanks
for making us part of your day. One hour from
now customary on a Monday, where Colin was right and
where Colin was wrong. Spent the weekend watching a lot
of basketball, some NFL combine stuff, Jmac and don't be
(00:53):
fooled by some outcomes. Warriors last game of the road trap.
He'll be too fooled with that long If there was
a game Saturday night you and I had talked about going,
I sat home and watched the whole thing, maybe myself
some dinner. You ghosted me when I was out, no response,
could have had the phone off and just you know,
watched the game, but I the Lakers Nuggets game was fascinating. Okay,
(01:17):
and all the Denver Laker games last two years. Denver's
the best basketball team on the planet. Boston's probably second,
but they all look the same. The Lakers absolutely hang
with them, and about five six minutes ago, Denver ratchets
up their defense and Lakers don't get as many good shots,
and then Jamal Murray and Jokich kind of takeover. Saturday
(01:40):
night much of the same, and Denver wins narrowly, and
Laker fans were very upset. They were mad at Darvin Ham.
Anthony Davis only had seventeen points. The bench didn't deliver.
But I actually saw it differently. Let's start with this.
The Nuggets have four elite players. They are four best
players are all in their prime. Michael Porter, number one
(02:02):
high school player, first round pick, giving you seventeen a
night in the NBA. He went ten for ten to
start ten for ten in the game. Number four took
Aaron Gordon, one of the better bodies length in the NBA.
Top defender, had eighteen nine to five. Jamal Murray did
what he always does, twenty four points, eleven assists and
(02:22):
Jokich best player in the world, had thirty five, ten
and seven and shot sixty four percent. Their four best
players are all athletically in their prime. Okay, go look
at the Lakers. They have one elite player in their prime,
one Anthony Davis, and because of the injuries many in
his career, he's an old thirty. Lebron's not in his prime,
(02:46):
he's thirty nine years old. And Austin Reeves is not
an elite player. He wasn't even drafted. He's a really
good player who has overachieved in the NBA gives you
about fifteen to night. Good players should be a four
and a great team. But this is what the series
should be. It shouldn't be this close. If you go
look at NBA champions, NFL champions, World Cup champions, Baseball champions, generally,
(03:12):
the core of the team, the strength of it is
overwhelmingly guys in their prime. The Lakers have one elite
talent in their prime, Anthony Davis, who's always been a
little hit and miss offensively, tremendous defensively, and that's it.
And he's an old thirty. So the Lakers and Nuggets
(03:33):
the last two years have played a lot eleven times
in two years, and the point differential is only four
and a half against the world's best basketball team. Why
are the games usually that close? Because Lebron and Anthony
Davis are top twelve to fifteen players in the league,
maybe better. And the Lakers have championship length, which is
(03:55):
the only way to compete with Denver the Warriors and
seven against Denver the Clippers one in six lose by
an average of nine. The Sons are four and seven
and lose by eight to eight and a half points.
A game Lakers Nuggets is always close, And what it
tells me is Lebron in year twenty one is only
(04:16):
missing a dependable number three talent and they didn't get
him at the deadline. Be mad at the front office.
Don't be mad at Ad, don't be mad at Austin Reeves.
The Nuggets have four elite players, the top high school
first round, best center in the world, best player Jamal
Murray Kentucky. These are elite guys, all in their prime.
(04:40):
Lakers have like half of one in Anthony Davis. It's okay.
Anthony Davis talked about it all. Nugget Laker games look
the same mostly, Oh.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
Yes, we're going closer as far as you know the
first you know, I guess forty two minutes, you know,
or you could say even forty four minutes, all right,
and then then that last four minutes is just dimmed
into what they get to and you know, they make
us pay on our mistakes. Like I say, you know, granted,
(05:14):
you know they made tough shots, but they get to
it every time, and you know what's coming with their
great execution team.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
You tell me, if the Lakers had four elite players
in their prime, like you know, a Shaq and a
Kobe and a Rick Fox and a Derek Fisher, and
the Nuggets had like three quarters of one, would you
expect the games always to be this close? This is
what Laker nugget games should look like. The Lakers championship
size can compete with them. Clippers don't necessarily sun struggle,
(05:48):
Warriors don't match up at all. Lakers lost the way
they're going to lose against Denver when you just don't
have that level of talent with five to six minutes
to go in the game. So I saw this over
the weekend. There's a lot of talk about the Dak
Prescott extension. Here's what I noticed with the Cowboys over
the weekend, Tyron Smith left tackle. Right now, the Cowboys
(06:10):
and Tyron Smith left tackle are miles apart, And it
made me think about this, have they wasted his career?
So when I started watching football was like in the
early seventies. I remember sitting watching a black and white
TV watching Washington lose to Miami in the Super Bowl.
The first great offensive line I ever heard talked about
(06:31):
was those Miami Dolphins, and they went to three straight
Super Bowls and won a couple of them. Then it
was the Steelers followed them. Mike Webster the all time
great center. They went to four Super Bowls. Great offensive
line after that, in the late seventies early eighties, the
Raiders were legendary. Announcers talked about their offensive line. They
got two super Bowl wins. And then I think the
(06:55):
Washington remember they were called the Hogs. They got to
four super Bowls. That was a great all time offensive line.
The Cowboys with Jimmy Johnson similarly pushed people around for
seasons three super Bowls. The only two offensive lines that
I can recall that had been stacked with Pro bowlers,
all Pro Hall of Fame guys that didn't get consistently
(07:17):
to Super Bowls are the Kansas City Chiefs. Trent Green
was the quarterback, Willie RoAF, Will Shields, Brian Waters, dominant
offensive line Ray Lewis. To this day you ask him
the team he hated to play, It wasn't a Steelers.
It was Kansas City. Mauled teams, but they had Trent Green.
And the other is Dak Prescott. In the Dallas Cowboys
(07:39):
o line, Tyron Smith will be a first ballot Hall
of Famer, eight time All Pro, arguably first or second
best left tackle since the end of the league. Zach
Martin's made nine Pro Bowls, seven to All Pros, maybe
the best guard in league history. And then Travis Frederick
had to retire early, a little bit of late row early.
(08:00):
Dak five time All Pro may have made ten if
he stayed around. Dominant player, retired early and from that
to playoff wins. Think about this. The NFC has gotten
weaker over the last five years. That's indisputable. Even the
(08:22):
Detroit Lions, who this year established themselves as having the
best offensive line in the league. Left tackle, center, right tackle.
They the Detroit Lions, the sad sack of the NFL
for twenty five thirty years. The Detroit Lions finally have
the best offensive line in the league, and they won
two playoff games this year. Dallas had a run of
(08:44):
about seven eight nine years mostly Dak's career with three
Hall of Fame level left tackle center, best guard to
ever play in a weekend NFC two playoff wins. Now
the Eagles all, I don't know if it stacks up
historically good Kelsey Lane Johnson, but it's been really, really,
(09:06):
really good one two or three in the league several
years they got to two Super Bowls. So you can
blame who you want. You can blame the end of
Tony Romo's career. People love to blame Tony Romeo. You
can blame Dak. I would say, there's clearly a lower
ceiling than you'd prefer. But boy, Tyron Smith, when I
hear the Cowboys or Miles apart, you have wasted this
(09:29):
all time great offensive line. There was a reason they
went first round picks an old line because it was
bad for years, Tony Romo running for his life. Then
late Romo and Dak got an old timer. Two PLATF
wins in a week in an FC. Here's Jerry this
weekend talking about Tyron Smith, Dak extensions and all that.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
We don't need to, but we can if everybody wants to.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Solve it, you can't. And so.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
The how as you get in and get on the
same page and see if you can come to an agreement.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
If you can't, what we have in place works.
Speaker 4 (10:17):
Dak can play better, and he had maybe you could
argue one of the best years he's ever had in
his career. But the good news is that I'm convinced
that he can play better, and I can. I'm convinced
that we can do some things better all the way around.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
And so we're all in. Never going to have an
offensive line in Dallas as good as that one. It's
just not going to happen. Washington has never had an
offensive line that duplicated that one. Either of the Raiders,
either of the Dolphins. Their weakness is the on line,
even if the Steelers their weakness. O line happens very
infrequently when you draft offensive lineman high and they all hit,
(10:59):
and for Detroit they have and they've already produced two
playoff wins with one year having what's regarded as the
best O line in football. We don't talk about them
a lot, but they matter j Matt Colin Wright Colin
wrong in one hour. So the combine was interesting. They
are saying ironically that it's the best O line class
(11:20):
that anybody's ever seen. Six seven tackles, multiple interior a lignemen.
Very non exciting for football fans. But if you need
a tackle, Jets, this is the year to need.
Speaker 5 (11:31):
I don't know, I'd rather take Tyron Smith than drafting
some guy, wouldn't you. I mean, Tyron Smith, no excellent
ro Football Focus fourth grade left tackle in the league
last year. I mean, yeah, I get you want to
draft a guy that early, but Tyron Smith's gonna have
a big market, bigger.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Than Justin Fields, by the way, who increasingly doesn't look
like he has one. Dak can't be thrilled with this news.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Huh, you're taking away my star left tackle.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
I wonder if we could go look it up what
Dak's record is with Tyron Smith and without remember there
was an Amari Cooper number for years and years, like
he missed Amari Cooper. But now that Ceedee Lambs and
number one one.
Speaker 5 (12:05):
It has been a Lane Johnson one with the egangild
right tackle r.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Listen. When Tom Brady went to Tampa, the one thing
Tom talked about with their GM was you got to
get your tackles right. They drafted Tristan Worse from Iowa
and he was a home He was like Pro Bowl
level by year one.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Also Trent Williams with Rock Perty. He missed like I
think a game and a half or two games last
year and it was like night and day like party's like.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Oh no, Mahomes only has been routed in one big
game of his life, the Super Bowl, when he was
dressing both tackles, no tackles. We don't talk about him.
They matter.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern Non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben
Maller with me and a Locke. To have you joined
us on our weekly auditory journey. You ask, what in
God's name is the Fifth Hour? I'll tell you it's
a spin off of it. Ben Malins show a cold
hit overnights on FSR.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Why should you listen? Picture? If you will a world?
Speaker 6 (13:01):
Will we chat with captains of industry in media, sports,
and more. Every week explore some amazing facts about human
nature and more. Listen to the Fifth Hour with Ben
Matther on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
All right, Monday, Our two live in Los Angeles. It's
the Hurt wherever you may be and however you may
be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
Albert Breer was at the Combine. Lot of Information. Best
offensive line class ever, stack wide receivers, a lot of quarterbacks,
some rising, some falling. Jmac listening to you during the
(13:39):
break about youth sports. I am so glad my kids
are in their twenties. I will just say so glad.
I'm not arguing with mom and Dad's about playing time. No, no,
I'm not. Other teams are just a quick question. If
you have five players.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
On your team and the opponent has four in a basketball,
do you play five on four with the man advantage
and you pull back if you're winning, or do you
say we'll just do four on four and have a subec.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
Yeah, for you sports, I do four on four with
a sub. We didn't do that close game.
Speaker 5 (14:06):
We won by one, but like, why why should you
penalize your team and have to sit a guy?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Well, maybe a kid was sick, Maybe a kid was
in the van.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Maybe other kids are doing too many other sports and
not prioritizing basketball.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
That's probably a healthier way to go through life. I
don't know. I don't think my You don't think they're
all going to the NBA. Nobody where you live will
ever play in the NBA.
Speaker 5 (14:27):
By the way, shocker, I thought I was NBA bound
in like sixth grade, seventh grade.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
There are weekends you come in and still think you're
NBA bound, all right, Colin right, Colin wrong? In a Monday,
here we go where Colin was right? Remember those trading
deadline rumors about Lebron being moved and I said they
were ridiculous. He's the heartbeat of the team. Well he's
now their leading scorer. They're leading assis. Guy leads them
in plus minus and Saturday night was another example. He's
(14:54):
the soul of the Lakers, not a d I mean
twenty six ' nine Anthony Davis didn't score many bench
didn't give him squat, scored about a dozen points. But
Lebron James once again the best basketball player consistently on
this team can play both ends. The smartest late game
player maybe in the league. The trade rumors were nonsense,
(15:17):
where Colin was rong. I mean, I don't even think
I was really wrong, but I'll give one for the team.
The Warriors got hammered by fifty two by the Celtics
last game of an East game road trip. Hey we're
getting destroyed. They had no legs. But I will say
this is that you know, these games, these national TV
games between two contenders matter, and for the Warriors to
(15:39):
basically decide we're not going to guard Jason Tatum's it
was a strategy. Not when I would employ, but it
was a strategy. We know Boston's good. I think Golden
State's still good, but god, they were awful yesterday. Where
Colin was right, I've been saying it now for a
couple of years. International players are more focused than our players,
more mature. Victor Wima thirty one and twelve. Yesterday, I
(16:02):
said when he came out, one of the top prospects
I've ever seen. And I'm a big believer in European players.
They play against older men when they're young. They come
in more focused, not distracted, none of the Jahn Morant nonsense.
In the end, Victor wimbin Yama is a top twelve
player in the league in my opinion right now. That's
what he feels like since basically January. He's a dominating
(16:27):
defensive player, a consistent offensive player, and his three point
shooting is remarkably deft considering how young he is. We've
been right mature focus from international players. They get good
fast and don't screw up where Colin was raw. I'm
(16:47):
apparently way off on the JJ McCarthy field. The Michigan quarterback,
I don't really see it, but multiple executives, I mean
Dan Graziano's hearing he's a top ten pick. Ian Rappapol
said he'll be absolutely the fourth quarterback taken.
Speaker 6 (17:04):
Now.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I will say his measurables did him a favor. He
came into the combine. The feeling was he was six
three to two oh two. That is indisputably light. He
measured at six two to two nineteen. That's Aaron Rodgers.
That's a different player. So the difference between sixty three
and two oh three and sixty two and two nineteen, Now,
I don't have any concerns now is it water weight?
(17:26):
Are they stacking him up? I don't know. It's not
the NBA. You're not running off six thousand calories a
night and traveling, so you can keep weight on once
you get it on. In the NFL. So JJ McCarthy
looks like J mack, who was on it a year ago,
is going.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Hi where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I've always been mystified by the Justin Fields love by
the media. His second half numbers are Zach Wilson well.
According to John Middlekoff, who was at the combine, my
buddy the pro scout told me last night. Within the league,
he doesn't have much of a market. Kirk Cousins is
the quarterback that many teams are discussing. He may be costly,
(18:03):
but he gives you a one hundred passer rating, wins
a lot of games, good in the fourth quarter. Listen,
Justin Fields as talented, but when you're a turnover machine
with accuracy issues and get hurt a lot, what do
I love? I think the fans in the media are
buying into the spectacular, and that is not what wins
games in the NFL. Consistency in elevating others. What Kirk
(18:26):
Cousins does that wine of ten games a year in
the league. Where Colin was right, I said, with Shoe Aotani,
it's going to be bigger than anything we've seen modern day.
Babe Ruth spring training games, can't get a seat, takes
you forty five minutes to get into the game. It
is real right now, he has got on base in
seven straight games, totally locked in. Dave Roberts said it
(18:51):
usually takes a couple of months for players to get
locked in. Dave Roberts said, he's already locked in. So
and it's Marks. What Mark's third, March fourth. I'll make
a prediction and you're seeing it in spring training. The
Dodgers will average close to fifty thousand per game now.
They already led major League Baseball in attendance last year
by about seven thousand people a clip. It's not the
(19:13):
easiest stadium to get to, beautiful stadium, but I think
he get up around fifty thousand per home game. Where
Colin was wrong. Mac Jones, according to two executives, is
worth a fifth or a sixth round pick on the market.
Timeout As a rookie, he had a passer rating in
(19:36):
ninety two and a half, and he completed sixty seven
percent of his throws. Don't we blame some of this
on Belichick and their tone deaf offensive culture. I mean
Trey Lance got a fourth round pick. He can't get
a fourth round pick. I give up a fourth round
pick for Mac Jones. Most fourth round quarterback picks can't
make the league. He started as a rookie was kind
(19:58):
of good Y's I was wrong on that where Colin
was right. We've always said the NFL, more than any league,
adapts evolves. What do you know they're proposing new NFL
kickoff rules. I like both of them. First of all,
the NFL does not like automatic kickoffs. Now automatic ones
return to game. They want to create a zone that
(20:19):
will increase the number of kickoff returns. It will go
from one a game to probably eight. And they want
the on sidekick to be used less frequently because it's
so automatic. Now the kicking team never recovers forty five
attempts last year, two recoveries. What they want is fewer attempts,
only in the fourth quarter. But you can use an
uneven line, so the percentage recovered by the kicking team
(20:43):
will probably go up to twenty five thirty percent. I
like them both, whether it works or not. I like
growth proposals. People don't like new stuff. I appreciate the swing, NBA,
NFL take swings. Don't know what's worked. Live with that.
Where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
On a Monday, be sure to catch live editions of
The Herd weekdays and noon Eastern not a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Chris Mannix has been in Milwaukee. He knows these Celtics.
He did not like my take, which I didn't even
think it was a negative. The Buffalo Bills, for big
chunks of my life have been unbelievably talented star quarterback,
really well run and no trophies. And it's like now
Boston obviously as a history, but if you go back
(21:32):
to Boston thirty five years, they've had a lot of
good teams. This arguably is as I mean, it's it's
not quite KG Paul Pierce round, but it's good. But
my criticism is I've seen this team blow people out
for three years. We love the Drew Holliday move, but
he's gonna be thirty three thirty four pretty soon, and
he's played those a lot of miles. He defends he's
(21:53):
on the floor that let those are Tony Allen years
like these. He's not a guy out there hitting jays.
He's gonna age. I think team, I think this year
is really really important.
Speaker 7 (22:04):
Okay, that's the only thing out of your mouth I
agree with at this moment, because in the pantheon of
wild takes, that's that's a pretty wild one. Comparing them
to the Buffalo Bills doesn't make sense because the Bills
in those early nineties, they were a team that from
the first Super Bowl to the fourth Super Bowl were
a complete team. They were they were peaking around those years.
(22:27):
This Celtics team was not peaking two years ago when
they were still a pretty young team. Last year, you
have the head coach of your team go out in
a sex scandal days before the start of training camp,
and you're trying to fix things on the fly, not
to excuse losing to Miami in the conference finals. And
(22:48):
that's another one, another beef I have with you there.
You said earlier that a Celtics Denver series you have
one to Malone one.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Because of Michael Malone.
Speaker 7 (22:57):
Now, I like Michael Malone as a head coach, but
you are looking at Joe Missoula like he's the coach
from last season, the coach that had a deer in
a headlights look for a long time, who came from
the back of the bench to take over a championship
level team and had to learn how to be a
head coach.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
With a bunch of assistants.
Speaker 7 (23:15):
Some of them they probably didn't like him very much
because they probably thought they deserve to get the jayir.
This year, he has a full training camp, a full offseason.
He was able to bring in the assistant coach he wanted.
He's got Charles Lee who's going to be a head
coach someday, Sam Cassell who's going to be a head
coach someday. And he has shown incredible growth this year
as a head coach. How many times, Colin have you
(23:38):
talked about the Joe Mizula gaffes from last season, the
not calling timeouts in key moments, the too much three
point shooting. Yeah, the South that shoot a lot of threes,
but they win a lot of games because they're top
five in the NBA in three points.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
This team is I would say this sometimes Marcus Smart,
I thought had a greater opinion of his offense than
I think Drew Holliday could score more, doesn't need to.
Speaker 7 (24:01):
You want the number one offensive team in the league,
you want him to score more.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
No, I think I think Drew Holiday fits because Drew
Holliday has I always felt Marcus Smart wanted to prove
I can take games over. He might take was don't
do that right. Holliday could, but doesn't feel a need
to do it. He's a more seamless third score. He
can score, but it's not his thing. I don't know
if he could.
Speaker 7 (24:25):
I mean, part of the reason the Bucks made that
trade is they needed a guy who could take over,
who could provide offense that Giannis couldn't, and that was
Damian Lillard. Think about how good the Celtics are offensively.
You have the Golden State Warriors, who have as much
brain power on that bench as any team in the NBA.
Steve Kirk, Kenny Atkinson, that entire bunch championship players on
(24:48):
that roster, and their best strategy to play the Celtics
was to leave an all NBA forward who chose thirty
six percent from three career wise, wide open the entire game.
That was their strategy coming in. We're going to leave
Jalen Brown open and we're going to try to win.
That way didn't work for him. The Celtics have so
many offensive options that all Drew Holliday has to do
(25:09):
issued a decent percentage from the floor and play the
kind of defense he's known for.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
But the big butt is that the East is pretty weak.
I mean, listen, Randall Brun said, Nick need another score.
They didn't do the trade deadline. I appreciate their patience.
They've been impatient my entire adult life. I appreciate it.
Milwaukee's not there yet. We'll get to them in a second.
M beads out forget it, or Cleveland's good, Mitchell's gone
(25:34):
next year. Maybe at the trade deadline. I feel like
they're a little hot and cold for me. You think
Mitchell's going to the Knicks, I don't quite buy that.
I think Trey Young Lakers. I think Trey Young feels
like La and Lebron tends to with the players he respects.
And I know he knows Trey because I went to
an event this year and they were both at it.
Clutch sports guy so and I don't think. I don't
think Trey Young works with Jalen Brunts and he's too loose.
(25:57):
Donovan Mitchell shoots a lot, but I think he it's
better any well strong. So here's the other thing about
let's just talk at titles. Okase he's too young to
win one more year, watch out. Denver's in their prime.
Got to get past them. I don't trust Minnesota, but
I do like their coach, and they've got size Lakers.
(26:17):
I thought needed to make a move this year. Eighty
is finally healthy. But my takeaway is you can't take
the East where the Celtics are thirty three and six.
I don't care, they're gonna fly through the East. The
West is a whole different ballgame. I agree.
Speaker 7 (26:34):
While I think Denver's the clear favorite to win the West,
they're not as clear favorite to win that conference as
the Celtics are to win the Eastern Conference, because, right
they're gonna have some beasts to go through along the way.
The teams you mentioned put the Clippers in that mix,
who when they're fully healthy, they're as good as any
team I think in the Western Conference. So I think
(26:54):
Denver is going to be banged up a little bit
on their way to the NBA Finals. Now that that
may not matter because what Denver's showing right now is
that the first part of the regular season that didn't
really matter to them all that much. So it's still
some championship hangover. They were trying to work in some
new guys. It was tough for some of the stars
to get motivated. What we've seen over the last ten
(27:17):
games where Michael Porter Junior's offense has taken off, Nikola
Jokic is playing great, the defense has locked down, Kyton Watson,
Christian Brown fitting.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Right into the roll.
Speaker 7 (27:27):
Yeah, really good bench guys vacated by Bruce Brown and
Jeff Green.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Really good.
Speaker 7 (27:30):
They are starting to rev that engine up a little bit,
and when they do, they're going to be really tough
to beat.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
All Right, We'll circle back to the to the Celtics
because I've been saying this for years with him, is
that people, And maybe I'm guilty. I think Tatum's the
best domestic player in his prime in the NBA, and
I think Stephan good Nights is better, and I think
he's about the eighth best player in the league. That's
what I think he is around there. I still do
have and this is not a criticism, but I think
(27:58):
initially he trained with Kobe, and there was feeling that
he was going to keep moving up and then that
the exclamation point would be he is the go to guy.
And my takeaway is, I don't think he has that personality.
I think he's an All Star. He's a first team
or the best player on the second team All Star.
I mean, MVP consider it, but I do think what Tatum.
My take is, we're annoying him to a position he's
(28:18):
not really his personality. He's a willing passer, he doesn't
have to take the final shot. I mean, there were
times in Kobe's career shocks like I can't play with him.
Nobody ever says that with Tatum. Michael Jordan wore people
out before Pippin, Phil Jackson taught Tatum's not this next letter.
This is what he is and what he is is.
(28:39):
I think Jokic is better. There are other guys in
the league I trust with the ball. With a minute left,
I think you're right about his personality.
Speaker 7 (28:46):
It's not what Kobe Michael, some of those guys not
who he is.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Not who he is.
Speaker 7 (28:53):
That doesn't mean he can't be a closer championship team.
I think what Jason Tatum has done this year has
contributed mightily to why the Celtics are in the position
that they're in. His willingness to take a step back,
to make it a priority to involve Kristaps Porzingis and
make him the twenty point staff, the twenty point per
game score.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
That he is.
Speaker 7 (29:12):
Yes, it is a very Steph Curry, yeah type of move,
But in the fourth quarter of games, there aren't many
players that can go to the bag that Jason Tatum
can go to. He can score off the dribble, he
gets the free throw line. Now three point shot is legit.
He is one of the more efficient post players in
the NBA this year. He has become that guy this year,
both in terms of passer and a shot maker. So
(29:33):
when you have that entire bag that you can go
to down the stretch last three or four minutes, probably
not more than a handful of guys I'd want with
the ball in their hands more than Jason Tatum.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
All Right, you know I'd come across like a hater.
I'm really not. Okay, A Sacramento King's line was a
bit hurtful. I love those Kings team. I like those
Kings teams way more than this team. You guys all
want me to light the beam. I'm over it. The
beam has been extinguished. I watched it last year, the
old Kings teams. I loved Okay, you spent time with
the Bucks when I first watched him. It's like creating
(30:03):
a new show. You got to give it a year. Dame,
your turn, Jannis, your turn. Jannis has been a bit westernized.
He's getting less patient. Got a coach run out. Probably shouldn't.
What do you make in Milwaukee? You spent a week
and a half with him?
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Yeah, I spent about a week right before the All
Star break with them at home, and then went in
the row with them to Memphis. I think they're trending
in the right direction, and I think that the decision
to fire Adrian Griffin and replace him with Doc Rivers
was the right one. Doc has taken a beating over
the last couple of weeks for some of the things
that he said, and as blunt as he's been, but
(30:38):
his philosophies makes sense. One of the things he did
immediately when he came in was say, we're trying to
do too much defensively. Let's get back to who we are.
The bread and butter defenses that made us great. Over
the last five games where the Bucks are five and zero,
they're the number one defense in the NBA during that stretch.
That is an impressive mark for the Milwaukee Bucks. And
(30:59):
since Doc has taken over, they have progressively climbed the
defensive rating standings in the NBA.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
If Doc was a good defensive player, is he known
as somebody that he's had good defensive teams?
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Right?
Speaker 7 (31:10):
But it all depends in part on the personnel. But
I'm telling you what he did was take away a
lot of the gimmicky stuff that Milwaukee was doing and
got them back to being kind of the pure, tough
defensive team you hunt over that scree good length, Yeah,
you use your length. You bank on Brook, Lopez and
Giannis and the pain. He's gotten them back to that.
And really, if you're Milwaukee, you don't need to be
(31:31):
the top five defensive team you've been in years past
to be successful in the playoffs because you've got firepower.
Now you've got Damian Lillard in that rotation and he's
going to be a threat in the postseason. If they
can just be a top ten, top twelve defensive team,
they are the biggest threat to Boston the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
I want to talk, so I said Saturday night. It
was interesting. I watched the Lakers Nuggets, and I watched
them play several times. They played eleven times in two years,
and the games are come down to four to four
and a half points, which is the Clippers don't match
up with them, Phoenix doesn't match up with Denver. A
lot of people don't match up with Denver. Nick strangely
do Lakers do because of their size and Lebron can
kind of control the tempo, and you know, at the
(32:11):
end of games, Yokich and Jamal Murray just get more
good shots. They got four players in their prime. Lakers
have kind of one elite player, which is a d
and he's an old thirty because of injuries. But my
takeaway at watching the game was, which has been my
take all year, is Lakers match up great with Denver.
The difference is they don't have as many good players
in their prime. And I don't trust D'Angelo Russell Reeves
(32:32):
will give me eighteen a deal, you know, give me
seventeen to twenty three. Lebron will be spectacular, and de
Loo could give me eight points twenty four three assists nine.
I think the Lakers when I watch them now, I'm like, damn,
they should have made a move at the trade deadline. Yeah,
but what move?
Speaker 7 (32:48):
There wasn't one out there, Like, would you give up
the one first round pick you can deal to get
Bruce Brown? Does that move to Leedle enough? It's Denver Nuggets.
I understand what the Lakers were thinking in doing nothing.
I feel like they need another shot maker, absolutely, but
you couldn't get that at the trade deadline, not with
the assets the Lakers have. You get to June and
you've got three first round picks, the deal you've got,
(33:09):
and you know contracts that are one year less that
you can potentially trade in the case of Dangela Russell,
you think they'll make a big one. I think they'll
make a big move this offseason.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Now, okay, let me throw it. So that's interesting. So
I've got the picks and and uh expiring contracts. So
a big move is what You're gonna need picks and
two expiring contracts to get Trey Young. I think Trey
Young feels like I don't think Trey Young works with everybody.
He's he's a handful Lebron makes Lebron is the He
(33:38):
just smooths the edges off.
Speaker 7 (33:40):
All players and shooters tend to play well opposite Lebron's
just right.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I mean, uh, you know, before he got to Cleveland,
people forget this about Kyrie the knock walls, can't stay healthy, diva.
People didn't like him. An hour later, we're like, best
ambidextri ambidextrous player in the league, best finisher, a small
guy in league history. That happened really fast. I think
Trey Young works for the Lakers. Donovan Mitchell goes to
(34:06):
the next They need a second guy. A lot of
people push back on Trey Young. You can't play with him.
Do you buy that? I buy that. You don't love him.
Speaker 7 (34:15):
I think he's the best player that I can think
of that's going to be available this offseason. The two
best players that might be available via trader, both in Atlanta.
I mean, Trey Young and de Jonte Murray are going
to be sought after commodities this offseason. Trey Young makes
sense because the Lakers' offense stinks. Right, They're seventeenth in
offensive efficiency, They're thirteenth from three point range, and this
(34:37):
is not an aberration. This is who the Lakers have been,
even their championship year. They were not a great offensive
team last year in the postseason, and it made a run.
They did it backed by defense, great defense. It wasn't
great offense. The Lakers need a great offensive player. I
think Trey Young makes a lot of sense. You can
deal three first round picks, you can deal some swaps,
you can deal expiring contracts. You can make a move
(34:58):
that would probably tice Atlanta to make that deal.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
J Mack I always said you should like him. He's
got your game, not much attention to defense, and difficult
to play with. But I will say there are players
that you know, just certain guys were. By the way,
Kyrie now playing well with Luca, so that's kind of working.
Don't think it does anything in the postseason. Let me
throw this at you. When you heard Lebron say this,
(35:26):
everybody when I came into the league wanted to see
me fail. That was kind of projecting as a psychologist.
I don't remember anybody rooting against him.
Speaker 7 (35:35):
I'm sure Lebron look athletes interpret things differently, right, I'm
sure there were people that wanted to see Lebron fail,
And I'm sure he heard some of those voices, Sure
and amplified some of those voices. But the vast majority
of people were excited to see Lebron succeed. This was
a time in the NBA where they were searching for
(35:57):
a face. Kobe had kind of taken that man until
Michael was at the back end of those Wizards years.
They were looking for that next great generational start. Here
comes Lebron. And I remember watching that very first game
against Sacramento when he had twenty something points six. This
is kind of flirt of the triple double in that game, thinking, Wow,
this guy is as good as advertised. So back in
(36:19):
two thousand and three, a vast majority of the people
wanted to see Lebron James succeed. Now fast forward to
twenty ten, and yes, everybody wanted to see him fail.
When you go to Miami and you leave Cleveland behind
and you do it in the way that he did
with the decision, it turned everybody against him completely. But
from the very beginning, I don't know where that demographic was.
(36:44):
The people that were rooting Lebron understand Boston didn't love
him because you guys had KG Paul Pierre like it
was your time. Yeah, but he was a young guy
on the team that was rebuilding. He wasn't really a
threat until two thousand and seven and they went to
the finals, and the rivalry with Boston didn't really pick
up until two thousand and nine, twenty ten.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
All right, let's circle back to the Celtics. So, mister,
this guy literally is on the Reddit boards Jason Tatum
fan guy all week. If the Celtics, you know, poor Zingish,
across your fingers on his health. So let's say the
Celtics get to the finals and they just don't match
up with Denver. It just doesn't look good. And now
poor Zingish you cross your fingers on health, and all
(37:25):
of a sudden, Drew Holiday is now thirty four. Do
you think? And I'm projecting, but boy, Boston's an overwhelming
favorite to get I would be shocked. In fact, I
would be surprised if they don't sweep a series and
maybe two. Yeah, like, I think there's that much better
they just it's the best starting five, hands down, at
least in the West. There are other comparable starting fives.
(37:46):
There are dangerous to oh case, he's too young, but
they can score, can't rebound, but they can score and
they get extinguished by Denver and it doesn't look highly competitive.
Do they make a move then? So if my take
is so zany, then that should mean if they go
and lose again in the finals, the feeling is we
are we are reluctant to change. I feel like if
(38:08):
they don't win now we start looking at Tatum going
bro come on now, Steph took it to the cleaners,
Wiggins felt bigger, Jokich, Murray.
Speaker 7 (38:19):
I think if they lose this year, your take is
less zany than it is right now because this year
everything there's no lingering issues.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
There's no we're too young, there's.
Speaker 7 (38:31):
No our coach is inexperienced, there's no there's a finals
team that we could play that's more experienced than we are.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
All those things are completely off the table.
Speaker 7 (38:40):
And yeah, if they get beat bad by a team
like Denver in the finals, I could see them making
some changes because Brad Stevens has been proactive from day one. Yeah,
on this job, he is like he didn't need to
make changes. Last year they were one win away from
going to the finals. Marcus Smart is a beloved figure
in this in the city of Boston. Yet he goes out,
makes that deal. Drew holiday in porzingis in. Both of
(39:03):
those have worked. Yeah, we both those work. So if
they fail this season and look, failure can look like
a few different things, right. I think failure is getting
beaten five games by Denver in the finals. If they
go to seven and loose the Nuggets, that's necessarily different.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
But if they either.
Speaker 7 (39:18):
Lose in the conference playoffs or lose bad in the
NBA Finals, then we can have start talking this wack
ad take of yours about the Sacramento Kings and the
Buffalo Bills because.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
They are just not there yet. Calm.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
They are legit this year and they're gonna be a
problem for whoever they play in the finals.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Hey, light the beam, Nick, Right, was.
Speaker 7 (39:38):
That team ran into the LA That team wasn't even
that bad. They were the LA Lakers year after year.
The Celtics don't have it LA Lakers out there in
their conference week.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
He's just weaker than I thought. I thought. I liked it.
But you know, mbad's injury, m beat injury.
Speaker 7 (39:49):
Although the Celtics have owned the Sixers the last few
years that I'm not sure that would have changed the
result of that.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
You know, I remember last year watching Boston play Milwaukee.
In my take was, man, Milwaukee looks slow and old.
Boston looks so much more athletic. And I still I
still have qu I mean, Dame's not a defender, so
he's not it's and it's not like they got younger. No,
and they're an older team than Milwaukee. Think they're the
oldest team in the league.
Speaker 7 (40:13):
Yeah, and there that that affects their athleticism. Yeah, they've
got some problems all that in But by the way,
you're you're Donovan Mitchell to the next take is you
gotta they gotta get a second then Mitchell, it can't
be Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
It can't be.
Speaker 7 (40:27):
You can't win with too much No, you too small guards,
you can't win with That's the problem Cleveland's run into
the last couple of years with Mitchell and Darius Garland
right like, they they're too small in that backcourt to
succeed at the highest So what would the Knicks go.
I mean, they will keep hunting the biggest of big names.
They will keep hunting Giannis if things go south in Milwauk.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
So that so that's been my take. Ryan, do we
have this tape. I said, if if Jiannis doesn't win
a second one with Dame, he's been westernized. Yeah, he
got coaches fired, like hes now wants to. He understands
the game. European players come over, they play nine, and
then all of a sudden they see how aggressive our
media is. Yeah, and we're like, yeah, you won a title.
You got to get to two and three. Michael got six,
(41:08):
Bill got eleven. Like I think he kind of feels
like now it's almost like Calipari Kentucky. There's a huge
gap between one title and two one. There's a million
guys with the title, and I think Giannis if they
regress in the playoffs, I think he's going to go
to the front office.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
And to be clear, he signed that contract this past
year which was as much about the machinations of the
salary cap to enable him over the next two contracts
to get the maximum possible dollar. Yes, it was viewed
as a commitment to Milwaukee, but it was really about
making sure he got max dollar.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
I'm with you on this one.
Speaker 7 (41:41):
If they get beat in the second round of the playoffs,
there could be a problem. I don't know that for sure,
but there could be a problem with Janson Milwaukee. That's
why teams like the Knicks have been keeping their powder
dry as best they can, because there are still teams
looking to gear up.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
And make a run Jiannis in the offseason. Chris Manning's
good stuff. Push him back, love it. See that combative stuff. Yeah,
but his stuff makes sense. I had to talk him
off the ledge. He had five little kids on his team.
The other team, you know, some kid got the chicken
pox or something. They only had four. He didn't take
a player off the team. He's like, full court press.
(42:17):
Let's douse him. Wow, that's very aggressive with children. That's
very aggressive coaching. You got Bobby Night over here. These
guys have I admire the press. I would have done that,
but he was like Rich Patino, full court press on
the Division three team
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