May 21, 2024 • 37 mins
Colin points out the "Dak Dilemma" most teams across the NFL are currently facing. He ranks the top 10 players remaining in the playoffs before the start of the Conference Finals. Plus, 3-time NBA Champion Byron Scott joins the show in studio to talk about the infusion of international talent into today's league
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
All Right, here we go. It is a Tuesday, live
in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever you may be,
however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part
of your day. Nick Wright, Byron Scott bo stopping by today.
Boston Celtics Eastern Conference Championship. Here we go against the Pacers.
Looks like a mismatch. I think it's a mismatch. We'll
(00:49):
get to that in five minutes. Jmac. You know I
come to work every morning a MC staff lays out,
the team lays out a bunch of stories, and a
lot of them are about quarterbacks. One to get paid,
getting paid OTAs to a dak as. A lot of
that talk right now, and I want to do addressing.
Oh jeez, here we got everybody wants to get paid, right, Yeah,
(01:12):
you blame them, don't blame them at all. So there's
a lot of stories about is Jordan love Packer's gonna
get paid, is Tua gonna get paid, Trevor Lawrence getting paid?
Jared Goff just got paid. And I was thinking about
this because the Celtics Larry Bird, the Larry Bird exception.
I'm gonna get to this in a second, but I'll
make I'll twist it all together. So if you were
gonna pay quarterbacks based on four factors, and I think
(01:34):
most of us would agree on the four factors, which
is are you productive? Are you highly productive? Do you
have success? Does your team win and win in the postseason?
This isn't baseball. You gotta win games when it matters,
not just compile stats. Are you reliable? Are you healthy?
Are you available? And number four is do you have
leverage every negotiation. I don't care if you're an attorney,
(01:57):
a doctor, a quarterback, a landscaper. If you got leverage,
you get more money. And if I had to take
every quarterback in the league based on those four, Mahomes
is the highest paid guy in the league. Josh Allen
is two, and by number three, we can argue. I
love Lamar Jackson, I'd probably put him there, but health concerns.
(02:18):
He get hurt and he hasn't been great in the playoffs.
Joe Burrow, Yeah, but he can't stay healthy. Justin Herbert talented,
but hasn't won enough TUA concussions. Let's be honest about that.
It's a concern. Jalen Hurts. What has he done without
Shane Steich and he's had one illy ear of production.
(02:38):
I love Matt Stafford, but he's getting older and he
gets dinged up a lot. Kyler Murray talent, Yes, commitment, mah.
Trevor Lawrence another guy I like, but he's not as
good as I thought or as most people thought. He's good,
not special, at least so far.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
In fact, I.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Could make an argument though he's not flashy, and you'll
push back that. Number three in terms of those four,
let's look at those four again, productive team and playoff success,
health and reliability and leverage. Number three could be Jared
Goff laugh all you want, ver Ozoha is hurt. Goff's
(03:17):
been to a super Bowl, lost to and never is
so what do you do well? This is where dak
is interesting, is that one of the toughest decisions in
the league is Dak. When he's healthy, you can win
ten to eleven games. When he's healthy, five hundred or better.
He would have a market, no question. The Raiders would
(03:39):
take him tomorrow if he was available. And the truth is,
Jerry Jones is petrified of being irrelevant. Jerry's ego feeds
on relevance. Dak's your quarterback. He's upright irrelevant. What do
you do with him? His record is seventy three and
forty one. So in the NBA, they have something called
(04:03):
the Bird exception, and there's several There's the early Bird exception,
there's a lot of them. What it means is named
after Larry Bird, that you can resign your free agents,
your free agents if they've been with you for three years,
and it can go over the cap. But it's called
the Bird exception. In the NFL, here's my new name.
(04:24):
It's called the Dak dilemma. If you're a football team
that has a good quarterback, but he fills those four boxes,
he's productive, the team wins an occasional playoff win. He's reliable,
mostly healthy, and has tremendous leverage. The NBA's got the
(04:46):
Bird exception. The NFL has the Dak dilemma. What do
you do when a quarterback mostly fills those four boxes,
but he's good and you have to pay him great money,
you will be come exactly what the Cowboys have been
under Dak relevant and never elite. What you can't be
(05:09):
in this league is chaotic at quarterback, and I think
that's what makes the Dak Prescott situation. He's got the leverage,
he is productive, he's mostly healthy, and when he is,
they win. You'd like him to win more in the playoffs,
but I'd like Lamar Jackson to win more in the playoffs.
I'd like Josh Allen to win more in the playoffs.
(05:32):
The Dak dilemma is real and it's what half the
teams in this league are facing. You cannot be special
when you pay a good quarterback great money. And once again,
I think the Cowboys will be trapped. So tonight the
Boston Celtics, I mean, the playoffs for them really begin
(05:53):
or do they begin? In two weeks in the finals,
they're a big favorite tonight. Indiana is a bad defensive team.
This is a tough matchup for the Pacers, and I
saw a story this morning, and I've touched on this before.
Are the Celtics going to officially become the Buffalo Bills
with Jim Kelly and now Josh Allen Always good, never special,
(06:14):
no trophies. So we are in year seven of Tatum
and Jalen Brown playing together. Brown came into the league
eight years ago, Tatum seven seven years playing together. What
we know is indisputable is they are a dominant Eastern
Conference team, sort of like dominating the Pac Twelve for
(06:35):
most of the last thirty years. They're a dominant Eastern
Conference team, far and away the weaker conference. They've had
three head coaches in seven years, one trip to the finals,
and they dominate a really weak side of the league.
They do not have an Alpha score like Luca, they
(06:56):
do not have a dominating front line like Minutes or
a defensive player like Rudy Gobert. But they've got chemistry,
they're cohesive, they get a long they win a lot.
The strangest part about the Celtics, and maybe it's not
strange at all, is that they don't do things that
(07:18):
historically great champions have done. They're very mediocre at home
in the playoffs. Five hundred over the last four years,
and that's against mostly the East. They don't have a demanding, aggressive,
dominant number one scorer who wants the ball, seeks it,
and demands it in crisis. And we also don't know
(07:38):
if they have a great coach capable yes, good, I'm
not sure. Essentially, these Celtics are the opposite of Michael
Jordan's dynastic Chicago Bulls. We love the coach, the demanding score,
the true leader, and hard to beat it home. These
Celtics are the opposite. But in an era of very
(08:02):
good teams like Denver and Minnesota, Boston is a very
very good team. I think they'll be the proverbial hot
knife through butter against the defenseless Pacers. I think they'll
go to the finals. They need two things in the finals.
Porzingis has to be healthy. You're not beating Minnesota or
(08:23):
Dallas without Porzingis. You gotta have size. Horford's not gonna
cut it. You can't just shoot your way to win
night after night. And the other thing is their path
has been so easy, and it will be against the Pacers.
Should be a sweeper, a gentleman's sweep. It's not rigorous
enough to test them. Their first test will be in
(08:45):
the finals. But my guess is we've had teams that
have won that haven't been great, Kawhi's Raptors, Dirk's Mavericks,
and that's probably what this is. We've put that in
a nachalon. We've put them in a nachalon. They just
they just don't really deserve. They don't have the alpha score,
they don't have the frontline wall at the rim. Porzingis
(09:07):
is often hurt, not sure. I like their coach, and
they're at best solid at home, never special in the playoffs.
Here's Jalen Brown, one of their two stars, part of
the seven year tandem, asking why should we expect anything
different from this team from last year's team.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Curious to know what you feel this team has that
maybe the previous five did not, and getting over the hump.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
More experience, got a couple guys that added to the mix.
We a lot older than some of those previous experiences.
Everybody loves to say it's the same thing, same team,
but like each and every year, we've grown. Each and
every year, we've learned. Each and every year we've gotten older, mature,
and it is a different mix.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well tonight they are a what twelve to twelve and
a half point favorite at home again the Pacers. I'd
probably take the points, but I think the games will
be in the high one twenties. Every time they have
played this year, that's what the games look like. I
suspect we'll get more of it. I'll give Indiana a win,
but I think the Celtics will again find themselves in
(10:15):
the finals untested and probably looking at Minnesota, not Dallas,
though both will be favored. I really believe both Minnesota
and Dallas, when they come out of a six or
seven game series, will look like the better, more tested team,
deeper team than Boston. And I'm not sure. I listen
(10:36):
to two different pods yesterday at various times. I'll take
Minnesota over Dallas. But I think what we're doing we're
not measuring in, We're not baking in how bad the
East is. And I think when you watch Minnesota Dallas
and you watch the quality of depth and physicality and
size and scoring and kind of dynamic players, it will
(11:00):
look like a different sport. So don't be fooled by
Boston rolling to wins because Indiana is an atrocious defensive team,
atrocious and j.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Mack.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I saw something this morning that came down. Now, last
year you tried to talk me into the New Orleans Saints,
I bit a little. I think it was last year
I tried to talk you into the Rams. I got
that one right. So this year you're trying to talk
me into the Jets, and I'm not there. I am
(11:33):
trying to talk you once again into the Rams as
a super Bowl team. But an interesting, interesting number has
come down in the Jets, and I don't buy it
for a second. I think everybody's being fooled. Just one number,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
That's only just one number.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
It's it. I am shocked by what has developed in
the Desert DraftKings sportsbook, all the sports. Well.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I have a good finger on the pulse of New
York teams.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Remember two years ago was the Giants.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
We were hyping the Giants with day bole in year
one and they go.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
To the playoffs. We were like, we called it cast
the win total over.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
If the Jets are in the NFC AFC Championship game,
I would not be surprised at all.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Super Bowl mild surprise.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
But I think that's like the floor is winning the division.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
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Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Now we're down to the final four. Who are the
ten best players left.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
In these games?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Ten best players left? I remember we did this during
the NFL's NFL Playoffs for games I'm worried about something,
So I have Porzingis at eleven because I don't know
if he's gonna play. That's fair. I can see Boston
saying if they blew him out tonight, Boston saying, let's
just keep him sideline until we lose the game in
this series. So I'm not gonna put Porzingis in because
I don't know if he's gonna I don't know if
he's gonna play. They have no chance to beat Denver.
(13:07):
They Minnesota or Dallas are too big, too big of
a front line. You've gotta have Porzingis for the finals
or I think they get bullied. Minnesota would bully him.
Dallas is lined since the trade deadline. Pretty physical, pretty
physical front. Don't know if I can ride with you there,
but go off all right, here we go. Here's our
top ten players left between the Celtics, the Pacers, the
(13:29):
t Wolves, and the Mavericks. Here we go.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Number ten.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I would say Drew Holiday, you get Iq, you get experience,
one of four players left with championship experience. You get defense.
He's a great attack defender, can give you points, but
isn't needy offensively. Again, this is a guy that's played
in big games. One of the most respected, well liked
players in the league. Drew Holiday of the Celtics at ten.
(13:55):
Number nine, often maligned, but outside of Jokich, Rudy Gobert
gives a lot of people trouble. Yo Ki cheats him up.
Yo Ki cheats everybody up, including Anthony Davis. He's a
highly efficient offensive player. His length creates troubles. Hit some
big shots in Game seven against Denver, four time Defensive
(14:17):
Player of the Year. Laugh all you want, Rudy Gobertt nine.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Number eight.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Pascal Siakam was good in Toronto. He's good in Indiana.
You're gonna get twenty one eight from him every time. Physicality.
He's important for Indiana because they play fast and finesse basketball.
He gives them some length and physicality for a team
that's gonna need every ounce of that against the Celtics
twenty one to eight and four efficient offensive player Siakim
(14:44):
a eight. Number seven Carl Anthony Town's a bit inconsistent,
shoots actually a really nice three ball for a guy
that's seven feet. He's often a physical size mismatch because
they've got two bigs. Again, I think he you can
almost tell if somebody's talented based on the market. He's
got a market. I could see the Knicks making a
run at him. I could see several teams making a
(15:04):
run at him. Karl Anthony Towns one of five players
to record a triple double in this year's playoffs. Number seven,
Number six, Tyree's Halliburton leads the Playoffs in a sisper
game at almost eleven. Got his shooting touch in game seven,
so he had an injury, great early, pulled back excellent
(15:25):
in this series. Doesn't make a lot of mistakes, so
you get speed, quickness, assis points, very few turnovers, mostly
air free as sending young player Number five, Kyrie Irving
is playing more of a shooting guard than a point
guard role in this series, so I pull him down
a little. I also don't know exactly what's in his head.
(15:48):
Game to game he can be a little hot and cold,
but he's actually playing defense. He's a remarkable defender. I
would put Kyrie at five, number four, but I think
Jalen Brown's the same guy every game. Excellent wing, versatility
as a defender, strong body. Jalen Brown at four fifty
five percent shooting in the playoffs. Again, I know exactly
(16:11):
what I'm gonna get. Sometimes he wants the ball more
than Jason Tatum down the stretch. He's been good since
he came out of col he gets slightly better every year.
I think he's an underrated, efficient player that can defend
on the wing. Jalen Brown at four, number three. I'd
say Jason Tatum best player on the number one team
all season, A true three level score, transition jumper down low.
(16:36):
Sometimes I wish he was more aggressive, but he's the
most offensively gifted player that's indisputable on a dominant team
in the regular season. Tatum at number three, Number two,
Anthony Edwards's best, arguable, best two way player, remaining unlimited ceiling.
Still needs some refinement. Can be a little hot and
(16:57):
cold with his shooting, but he's developed as a passer
and a facilitator, which is great self awareness, ability to
step back let others shoot. Mike Conley has been so
valuable for his growth and at number two. Number one,
gotta give it to Luca. He can be a dominant score,
virtually impossible to stop when he's in his zone. Led
(17:20):
the regular season in scoring, now leading the playoffs in
assists at over nine a game. There's not much I
don't like. I think at times he can be difficult
to play with in a tad selfish, but that was
an argument you can make about MJ. Kobe and a
lot of great scores. Luca at number one.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
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Speaker 6 (17:43):
Pollie Fusco here with Tony Fusco. You know, as the
host of the number one rated Paully and Tony Fusco show.
We get tons and tons of fan mail every day.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Piles of it.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
In fact, Tony, why don't you open up one of
those letters right now and read what's inside?
Speaker 7 (17:55):
Hey, listen to this. Dear Pauli and Tony, your sports
takes the dumbest and most terribly that wait one, yeah,
Pauli in Toni, you suck more than anyone, Wait one, Yeah,
Paulie and Tony, you guys are the absolute best.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
There you go coming up with the stupidest take.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Forget Fusco show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I would say fell in love with the NBA. I
watched it in the seventies, but I think the eighties
and early nineties for a lot of our viewers, the
league changed, the players were more sensational. Byron Scott was
part of those great Lakers teams Kareem and Magic. Of course,
Jeff Pearlman wrote the book The Three Ring Circus and
(18:43):
then it's now been made into an HBO Max series,
and it was a special time where teams people. It's
hard to believe teams didn't have their own planes. You
guys flew commercials. You would often on a sty Sam
flight out of Seattle. You're setting next to an insurance
man and a mortgage broker.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
First flight out.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
That was that we had to take every day that
we played. If we had back to backs, couldn't leave
the night after the game because we didn't have our
planes at that particular time. So yeah, we were at
the airport early in the morning first thing smoking.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So you had the Celtics were playing a gritty style
of basketball. It was not an international league, and you
were playing a flashy style of basketball. The game wasn't
as it wasn't global quite yet, and it wasn't televised
as often, so you didn't see a lot of Boston
until you played Boston. My Sonics were up in the Kingdome, yep.
(19:40):
But back then there wasn't as much Byron, there wasn't
as much mobility. So when you face the Sixers for
six years, it was the same dudes, and I do
think that created an animosity and a physicality, Like you knew,
here comes Steve mix Beguinness, Tony. I like that game. Now.
(20:01):
I do think the NBA this year tweaked it to
be more physical.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
But take our audience back to going to Philadelphia or
Cleveland or Chicago and it was the same team every year.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Yeah, it was great because, like you said, you knew
exactly what you were playing against. You knew the stop
of the type of style you were playing against. Like
you said, it was gonna be physical back in the
eighties and nineties. Anyway, I loved the fact that when
we would play Philly, we knew how good Andrew Tony was,
you know. We knew how good Doctor j and more
Cheeks and Bobby Jones was one of the best six
mans in the league coming off the bench. Going to
(20:33):
Boston you got DJ and Danny Age. So I knew
exactly who I was playing against every time we went
back there, and we knew the style that we were
playing against. We knew the type of ball we were
going to be playing against, you know. So I love
that fact about it, you know, And it did create
that animosity because we did not like them, they did
not like us. We obviously had a whole lot more
hatred for Boston because they were always in our way
(20:56):
than we did Philly. You know, we like, we kind
of liked Philly because they were but we couldn't stand
the Celtics. Colin, We couldn't stand the Celtics, you know
what I mean, because they were always in our way.
And then later on we found out why when we
got to you know, no guys off the court a
little bit more. But you know, the Boston Celtic Laker
rivalry I think was one of the greatest ribberries in
(21:16):
all the sports because of the fact that, like you
said earlier, we had that animosity towards one another and
we wanted the same things.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
That was winning championships.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And you were the two best teams. When you look
at the NBA about ten years ago, it started getting
very international. I'm an NBA fan, so I'm an NFL,
NBA college football guy. One of my criticisms on the
NBA for a while, although I think Adam Silver has
tweaked that the aesthetic was just threes. Yeah, and it's
(21:45):
like Anthony Davis should be around the basket. I don't
need Anthony Davis shooting three it. I don't need Pascal
Siakam shooting threes. Get him around the basket. And I
think the league is moving back towards situational not a
mid range, but the bigs are closer.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
To the rim. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
The international players are fascinating because they play against older
men when they're young, and they come to this country
byron and they're not distracted. They're not into shoe deals,
they don't want to move around. They come here and
want to play for their team mostly forever. Do you
worry that between AAU basketball are distracted players. They go
(22:21):
from g league to one year college that we're losing
a little bit of the old school field. I like
European players a lot, but the league feels different than
it did twenty five thirty years ago.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yeah, European players. You gotta look at a little bit
of history with our American players in the European players.
And I think one of the reasons that European players
have closed that gap so much on basketball, especially the
fundamental part of a coling is because if you look
at AAU players, they place three four games a day
(22:54):
for six seven days a week. They never practice. You
go to Europe, it's total opposite. Practiced twice a day
on fundamentals. You know, very very few games, two games
maybe a week, but they got two practices, you know,
two a day's every single day, and that first day
every morning is all fundamental works. That's why you see
every big man in Europe that can handle the ball,
(23:16):
can shoot it, can pass it, you know, a lah
the joker, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
That's why that gap has closed so much.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
So I think if we don't if we're not careful,
you know, especially American basketball, we got to get back
to those fundamentals of playing the game of basketball. And
I think the league and I love the I love
the fact that you have so many international players just
in the league, you know, because they can play.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
You got to give them the credit. And you're right.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
When they normally come over here, they normally stick with
one team, you know, Dirk Newhisky one, you know, you
know what I mean, Right.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
We're going to stay and be a buck.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
By the way, I'm not knocking our guys for mobility,
but if I visit Italy with my life, I'm a visitor.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Right, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I kind of see it in the neighborhoods that I
kind of had planned to stay. You know, I'm in LA.
I can get in the car and go anywhere, right,
So I like where we're going. So let's talk about
the four teams. You would have done very well in
today's NBA. You are thirty seven percent three balls. You
and Larry Bird were born a little early.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
But I'll tell you a player that's fascinating is that
Luca has done something this year. And he's been scoring
since he was twelve. Yeah, yeah, this year they said
you gotta defend Yeah, and Luca, you can't have the
ball in your hands all the time. That is hard
for a brilliant score. And when I watch him, I'm like, Okay,
(24:41):
he's got self awareness, Like I like that part of Luca. Yeah,
did you know instantly he was going to be this good?
Speaker 4 (24:48):
No, not even close. I mean I saw him in
Europe and I said, all right, he's good. You know
he's getting his shot off. You own these guys. It's
a little bit lower. You'll spend a lot of vertical player. Yeah, yeah,
a little bit slower. You know that is tall, you know.
So I was really wondering what he would look like
in the NBA, and it took me probably about six
months to say, Okay, this guy's pretty damn good. You
(25:08):
know he could score, he gets to where he wants
to go to. But I think, like you said that,
you know his self awareness and Jay kid, you got
to give him a lot of credit for this as
well of letting Luca know that, you know, what will
be a much better team if you're off the ball
sometimes and if you're making the right plays and not
looking to score all the time. And if you look
at that Dallas team right now, that's exactly what you're seeing.
You're looking at a great willing passer. You know, a
(25:31):
guy who can get his shot at any time he wants,
but a guy that his teammates know now that they
that he trusts them, and when he makes those passes,
it does matter. That's why you see Dallas in this
position at their end of the day.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
You know, there was a brief time I always thought
it was overplayed. People talked about small ball, and I'm like,
are we sure small balls? Not just Clay and Staff?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It didn't win for anybody else, right, right? And now
the league once again it's bigs. Yeah, you and I
were talking before the break. It was Wilt into Kareem.
Everybody had bigs, Yeah, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurman. If you
didn't have a big, you were the Warriors with you know,
a Clifford Ray where you could win a title, or
(26:15):
the Celtics with Dave Cowens. Maybe you could win a title.
But you needed at West Unseld you you needed bigs.
It does feel like the small ball thing. It was fun,
but all I'm watching with Dallas now they brought in
size Minnesota size, porzingis size, I mean, even Pascal Siaka
Miles Turner, Indiana. Did you buy into small ball? What
(26:37):
did you make of it? It doesn't feel like it had legs.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
No, I'm O school, you know, I'm not. You know,
you look at a lot of these teams. They talk
about your positionless basketball, you know, not putting guards or forwards,
you know, just playing. You just got players out there playing.
I still believe that you need those gritty guys. You
need those guys that's gonna do the dirty work. You
need the Kirk rampis is like we had back in
the day. To eight see greens like we had back
(27:01):
in the day. You need those guys that are six ten,
six eleven, seven footers that's gonna do all those dirty
things for you out there on the basketball court, you know,
setting the hardest greens, getting you know, getting the rebound.
Uh So, I like the fact that we're seeing that more.
I like the fact that Dallas went out and got
some lively bodies that are long, you know, athletic, you know,
(27:22):
six eleven seven footers. They can get up and around
the rim, they can block shots, to defend because again,
it takes a lot of pressure off their perimeter players
on the defensive end. Luka for the first time this
year I've seen make efforts on that end of the floor.
And again self awareness of understanding that if you want
to get us to a championship, or if you want
to win a championship or have an opportunity, you got
to play on both ends of the floor.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
And you see he's bowled into that.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
The NBA, my entire life, Byron's got listening for our
radio audience, has been a player's league. Back to Spencer Heywood. Yeah,
I grew up with my Sonics and my Blazers in
the seventies. It was a players league.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Now you cycle through coaches more often. It is what
it is, Okay, I've never I have no envy toward
NBA players having power or money. Load management drives me nuts.
I'm a kid from a small town. Okay, I grew
up in a tiny town. I went to one NBA
game a year if Downtown Freddie Brown and Gus Williams
weren't available. And you can say to yourself, well, but
(28:19):
it wasn't on TV when I was.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
A kid, right right.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I hate load management.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
You're not the only one I don't understand. And when
you sign a contract, you don't sign a contract that
stipulates that. Okay, out of the eighty two games in
the regular season, I'm gonna play seventy because I'm gonna
take twelve off because of load management. I need rest.
You sign a contract to play eighty two games. So
if you're just you know, hurt, you know, and you
got an opportunity where you can play, you play that game.
(28:46):
If you're injured, you don't play. I understand that, right.
So this load management bull to me, is just it's
given the players way too much power to be able
to say, you know what, I need the next couple
of games off, next two games off, because I'm just
I'm getting tired. It don't make sense to me.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Data illustrates or validates, it doesn't help you.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Your efficiency numbers don't change when.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Yeah, it's a loaded croc, you know, to be honest
with you. So that's how I feel about it. I'm
just not a big fan of load management. I'm always
been a big fan. If you're able to play, play
the game.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
And for the record, wasn't there part of playing the
game that you like to show off?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah? I mean you want to entertain, you know what
I mean. You want to entertain.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
You want people to come back and say, man, did
you see that that shot of that dunk or that
pass or whatever? You know, And you can't do that
if you're sitting down ten twelve, fifteen games a year.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
You know.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
The thing that I loved about Kobe Bean Bryant, you know,
the late great who I loved, was a show big
time as a showman. But he played every game that
he could play. He didn't believe in loads management either,
you know. I mean he played games when he was sick.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
You know that.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I person the last two years asked him, maybe you
should sit this one out.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Nope.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
These people came to see might be the last time
they ever get a chance to see me play.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
So I gotta go play. And that's the type of
players you want.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, Yeah, Kobe was. Kobe was one of those players
that was almost an artist. Michael had certain moves that
he went to. He had He's going to go to
the well on about three mid ray and he was great,
best mid range player in my life. Yeah, Kobe was
more canvas as empty. I'm just gonna spill.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Some players, I'm just painted up whichever way it shows up.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
What is it like to coach a player who was
a top five gifted offensive player? Ever, how much do
you coach? How much do you manage? Where did you
land on that?
Speaker 4 (30:46):
I landed on managing, you know what I mean? This
guy was in the league eighteen years, you know, twenty
at the end of it, where he had been around
and has seen everything that can be thrown at him,
has been in every situation on the basketball court, offensively
and defensively.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
So to me, it wasn't me. It wasn't up to me.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
To try to teach him anything offensively or defensive. It's
really just to manage, you know, to manage his minutes,
manage his body, manage his practice time, because at that
time in his age and how many games he had
played when you start including playoff games and things of
that nature, He's probably played thirteen fourteen hundred games in
(31:28):
his career, you know. So I was really just really
just trying to just manage, you know, to make sure
that Kobe Brown was able to play every single night
as much as possible. So from a professional standpoint on teaching,
he didn't need to be taught. He was already he
was already there. It was just really just managing everything.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
So the Celtics start Eastern Conference Finals tonight. The East
is really weak. Add in the injuries, it's been a
lab drill.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So Jason Tatum's fascinating. So I've gone to see him
play three times live. I watch a lot of Celtics games.
Obviously a very good player, yes, And I think about
this I grow up with, you know, I grew up
with more of a Jordan Kobe mindset, which is the
game is mine, get out of the way. That's not
always the easiest game to play with. Tatum is very
(32:16):
much a hey, your turn. There are times I went
and watched them in Chicago live and he was one
of the only stars that played that night. But he
was very willing if there was a if there was
a defender on him to go out to Derek White
and let him go. And I think, man, that's just
not what I grew up with. So what is the
line between? Like I wish Tatum was more selfish occasionally,
(32:41):
but if you look at their net ratings, offensively, it
doesn't necessarily matter where are you on Tatum? His personality
is mentality is game. Where are you on him.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
I love Jason Tatum. I love watching him play the
game of basketball. Like you said, he's a very willing passer.
Sometimes it's just not in a player's makeup to be
Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant where they're gonna take the
shot with three guys on him. They don't care, you know,
because they're also willing to take the hit.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
They're willing to be the goat, you know, and they're
also willing to be that sacrificial lamb at times, you know.
So I love his I love his demeanor on the
basketball court. I love the way he plays the game.
But you can't make certain guys to be the next
Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant as far as their mindset, and
he doesn't. I don't think necessarily have that mindset. I
think he will take it if he has to, you know.
(33:29):
But if other guys are going, Jaylen Brown is going,
you know, White is hitting shots, then he's more than
willing to pass the ball. So I don't have a
problem with the way he plays the game. I love
the way he plays the game.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, I like the way they play the game is Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
They play it as a team.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yep, you suggested that maybe Lebron could be a player coach. Now,
I grew up with Lenny Wilkins, so I've seen it done.
Bill Russell, Lenny Wilkins, Lenny one of the all time gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
In the sport. Yes, yes, right right.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
What was the feedback when you said that on a
show and then went out in LA What was the
feedback you got in your phone by saying that, you know?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
And I got a lot of feedback by that.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
A lot of people were saying that, you know, that's
a great idea, but it won't happen, you know. And
then I had some other people that was like, you're crazy.
You know, what do you talk about? He shouldn't be
the coach?
Speaker 1 (34:18):
And was it tongue in a little bit? Was a
poke at Lebron about you know, you don't like any
of them.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
You do it?
Speaker 4 (34:23):
It was a little bit of a poke, but like
you said, it was a little bit of fun but
seriousness as well.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
But I'm the best option to you.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I like Sam Cassell and I love Mark Jackson.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Mark Jackson, I think is a guy who deserves another
opportunity to coach in this league. Don't know why he's
been sort of blackball from this league for so many years.
If it's not Mark Jackson, I love Sam Cassell because
number one, he's had nothing but experience, you know, on
that bench as a lifelong assistant coach, and everywhere he's
been has done well. You know, the organization has done well.
I think he deserves an opportunity. The name that and
(34:57):
I'm sure calling you heard his name a bunch as
well as JJ ris JJ. The only thing I have
that I would say that I have against him coming
in right off the streets to be the electorate head coach.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
He has no experience, he's never coach.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
When you got your first job, right and everybody bails
wat my first time on the air, we're all bailing
water a little with a new job, right. What is
the hardest thing for a guy that's never been a
head coach goes to a head coach in your first
two months, maybe your first two weeks. What is the
thing where you go, Damn, this is tougher than I thought.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
When you have to make every single decision, you know,
it's not a suggestion.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Anymore as an assistant coach.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
A coach, you know, I think we could you know,
you know, let's read the side pick and rolls well
as the head coach. You know, your word is bond.
You know, whatever you say goes. You know, so understanding
that everything kind of falls on you. Sometimes could be overwhelming,
you know. And I think again, for a guy that's
never coached, I just look at Steve Nash, great player, famer,
(36:00):
never coach in his life. He goes to Brooklyn, doesn't work.
You know, he couldn't get out of there fast. No, no,
I and I really truly think if you have a
year or two on the bench, you know that that
gained experience will help you so much in your next
you know, head coaching or getting a head coach in
position somewhere else or wherever it may be. But going
in there cold Turkey.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
It's a whole lot tougher than you think.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Well and also part of Steve Kerr's success has been
a very good group of assistants behind him. That is
also a strength of the new Boston coach. They updated,
they upgraded the staff. Spose always had very strong assistance
behind us. Yes, sometimes when you're the new guy, you're
just trying to tread water. You can't build a staff
yet that that's hard. Yeah, And Sean McVay for the Rams,
(36:47):
is much better staff builder. It was always a good coach. Yeah,
his staffs now are better than they were his first year. Yeah,
like that's that takes taking a staff absolutely.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
But Steve Kerr the one thing that I would say
is a little bit different than him when he jumped
out from being, you know, doing games to the coaching
coaching ranks. He was in the front office, yes, okay,
so he had a chance to be around the organization
of coaches and players all that time. So it wasn't
like he was jumping in cold turkey. He had been
in situations where he was making decisions on draft picks
(37:19):
and coaches and things of that nature. So it's a
totally different situation of coming from where Steve Kirk came from,
which was the front office, than coming from the booth
and just taking over as.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
A head coach. You look fantastic, Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
I'm not even going to guess your age, but.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I'm older than you. Let's just put it that.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Way, man, you are His wife is a nurse and
a nutritionist. Obviously it's blueberries in the morning and fish
at night. Because dude, you are playing weight.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
You pretty much guessed that too. That's pretty good. That's
pretty good fish at night, lots of it too. Great,
Great Steven Coach, Always a pleasure.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
All Right, here we go. It is a Tuesday, live
in Los Angeles. It's the Herd wherever you may be,
however you may be listening. Thanks for making us part
of your day. Nick Wright, Byron Scott bo stopping by today.
Boston Celtics Eastern Conference Championship. Here we go against the Pacers.
Looks like a mismatch. I think it's a mismatch. We'll
(00:49):
get to that in five minutes. Jmac. You know I
come to work every morning a MC staff lays out,
the team lays out a bunch of stories, and a
lot of them are about quarterbacks. One to get paid,
getting paid OTAs to a dak as. A lot of
that talk right now, and I want to do addressing.
Oh jeez, here we got everybody wants to get paid, right, Yeah,
(01:12):
you blame them, don't blame them at all. So there's
a lot of stories about is Jordan love Packer's gonna
get paid, is Tua gonna get paid, Trevor Lawrence getting paid?
Jared Goff just got paid. And I was thinking about
this because the Celtics Larry Bird, the Larry Bird exception.
I'm gonna get to this in a second, but I'll
make I'll twist it all together. So if you were
gonna pay quarterbacks based on four factors, and I think
(01:34):
most of us would agree on the four factors, which
is are you productive? Are you highly productive? Do you
have success? Does your team win and win in the postseason?
This isn't baseball. You gotta win games when it matters,
not just compile stats. Are you reliable? Are you healthy?
Are you available? And number four is do you have
leverage every negotiation. I don't care if you're an attorney,
(01:57):
a doctor, a quarterback, a landscaper. If you got leverage,
you get more money. And if I had to take
every quarterback in the league based on those four, Mahomes
is the highest paid guy in the league. Josh Allen
is two, and by number three, we can argue. I
love Lamar Jackson, I'd probably put him there, but health concerns.
(02:18):
He get hurt and he hasn't been great in the playoffs.
Joe Burrow, Yeah, but he can't stay healthy. Justin Herbert talented,
but hasn't won enough TUA concussions. Let's be honest about that.
It's a concern. Jalen Hurts. What has he done without
Shane Steich and he's had one illy ear of production.
(02:38):
I love Matt Stafford, but he's getting older and he
gets dinged up a lot. Kyler Murray talent, Yes, commitment, mah.
Trevor Lawrence another guy I like, but he's not as
good as I thought or as most people thought. He's good,
not special, at least so far.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
In fact, I.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Could make an argument though he's not flashy, and you'll
push back that. Number three in terms of those four,
let's look at those four again, productive team and playoff success,
health and reliability and leverage. Number three could be Jared
Goff laugh all you want, ver Ozoha is hurt. Goff's
(03:17):
been to a super Bowl, lost to and never is
so what do you do well? This is where dak
is interesting, is that one of the toughest decisions in
the league is Dak. When he's healthy, you can win
ten to eleven games. When he's healthy, five hundred or better.
He would have a market, no question. The Raiders would
(03:39):
take him tomorrow if he was available. And the truth is,
Jerry Jones is petrified of being irrelevant. Jerry's ego feeds
on relevance. Dak's your quarterback. He's upright irrelevant. What do
you do with him? His record is seventy three and
forty one. So in the NBA, they have something called
(04:03):
the Bird exception, and there's several There's the early Bird exception,
there's a lot of them. What it means is named
after Larry Bird, that you can resign your free agents,
your free agents if they've been with you for three years,
and it can go over the cap. But it's called
the Bird exception. In the NFL, here's my new name.
(04:24):
It's called the Dak dilemma. If you're a football team
that has a good quarterback, but he fills those four boxes,
he's productive, the team wins an occasional playoff win. He's reliable,
mostly healthy, and has tremendous leverage. The NBA's got the
(04:46):
Bird exception. The NFL has the Dak dilemma. What do
you do when a quarterback mostly fills those four boxes,
but he's good and you have to pay him great money,
you will be come exactly what the Cowboys have been
under Dak relevant and never elite. What you can't be
(05:09):
in this league is chaotic at quarterback, and I think
that's what makes the Dak Prescott situation. He's got the leverage,
he is productive, he's mostly healthy, and when he is,
they win. You'd like him to win more in the playoffs,
but I'd like Lamar Jackson to win more in the playoffs.
I'd like Josh Allen to win more in the playoffs.
(05:32):
The Dak dilemma is real and it's what half the
teams in this league are facing. You cannot be special
when you pay a good quarterback great money. And once again,
I think the Cowboys will be trapped. So tonight the
Boston Celtics, I mean, the playoffs for them really begin
(05:53):
or do they begin? In two weeks in the finals,
they're a big favorite tonight. Indiana is a bad defensive team.
This is a tough matchup for the Pacers, and I
saw a story this morning, and I've touched on this before.
Are the Celtics going to officially become the Buffalo Bills
with Jim Kelly and now Josh Allen Always good, never special,
(06:14):
no trophies. So we are in year seven of Tatum
and Jalen Brown playing together. Brown came into the league
eight years ago, Tatum seven seven years playing together. What
we know is indisputable is they are a dominant Eastern
Conference team, sort of like dominating the Pac Twelve for
(06:35):
most of the last thirty years. They're a dominant Eastern
Conference team, far and away the weaker conference. They've had
three head coaches in seven years, one trip to the finals,
and they dominate a really weak side of the league.
They do not have an Alpha score like Luca, they
(06:56):
do not have a dominating front line like Minutes or
a defensive player like Rudy Gobert. But they've got chemistry,
they're cohesive, they get a long they win a lot.
The strangest part about the Celtics, and maybe it's not
strange at all, is that they don't do things that
(07:18):
historically great champions have done. They're very mediocre at home
in the playoffs. Five hundred over the last four years,
and that's against mostly the East. They don't have a demanding, aggressive,
dominant number one scorer who wants the ball, seeks it,
and demands it in crisis. And we also don't know
(07:38):
if they have a great coach capable yes, good, I'm
not sure. Essentially, these Celtics are the opposite of Michael
Jordan's dynastic Chicago Bulls. We love the coach, the demanding score,
the true leader, and hard to beat it home. These
Celtics are the opposite. But in an era of very
(08:02):
good teams like Denver and Minnesota, Boston is a very
very good team. I think they'll be the proverbial hot
knife through butter against the defenseless Pacers. I think they'll
go to the finals. They need two things in the finals.
Porzingis has to be healthy. You're not beating Minnesota or
(08:23):
Dallas without Porzingis. You gotta have size. Horford's not gonna
cut it. You can't just shoot your way to win
night after night. And the other thing is their path
has been so easy, and it will be against the Pacers.
Should be a sweeper, a gentleman's sweep. It's not rigorous
enough to test them. Their first test will be in
(08:45):
the finals. But my guess is we've had teams that
have won that haven't been great, Kawhi's Raptors, Dirk's Mavericks,
and that's probably what this is. We've put that in
a nachalon. We've put them in a nachalon. They just
they just don't really deserve. They don't have the alpha score,
they don't have the frontline wall at the rim. Porzingis
(09:07):
is often hurt, not sure. I like their coach, and
they're at best solid at home, never special in the playoffs.
Here's Jalen Brown, one of their two stars, part of
the seven year tandem, asking why should we expect anything
different from this team from last year's team.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Curious to know what you feel this team has that
maybe the previous five did not, and getting over the hump.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
More experience, got a couple guys that added to the mix.
We a lot older than some of those previous experiences.
Everybody loves to say it's the same thing, same team,
but like each and every year, we've grown. Each and
every year, we've learned. Each and every year we've gotten older, mature,
and it is a different mix.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well tonight they are a what twelve to twelve and
a half point favorite at home again the Pacers. I'd
probably take the points, but I think the games will
be in the high one twenties. Every time they have
played this year, that's what the games look like. I
suspect we'll get more of it. I'll give Indiana a win,
but I think the Celtics will again find themselves in
(10:15):
the finals untested and probably looking at Minnesota, not Dallas,
though both will be favored. I really believe both Minnesota
and Dallas, when they come out of a six or
seven game series, will look like the better, more tested team,
deeper team than Boston. And I'm not sure. I listen
(10:36):
to two different pods yesterday at various times. I'll take
Minnesota over Dallas. But I think what we're doing we're
not measuring in, We're not baking in how bad the
East is. And I think when you watch Minnesota Dallas
and you watch the quality of depth and physicality and
size and scoring and kind of dynamic players, it will
(11:00):
look like a different sport. So don't be fooled by
Boston rolling to wins because Indiana is an atrocious defensive team,
atrocious and j.
Speaker 5 (11:09):
Mack.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
I saw something this morning that came down. Now, last
year you tried to talk me into the New Orleans Saints,
I bit a little. I think it was last year
I tried to talk you into the Rams. I got
that one right. So this year you're trying to talk
me into the Jets, and I'm not there. I am
(11:33):
trying to talk you once again into the Rams as
a super Bowl team. But an interesting, interesting number has
come down in the Jets, and I don't buy it
for a second. I think everybody's being fooled. Just one number,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:50):
That's only just one number.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
It's it. I am shocked by what has developed in
the Desert DraftKings sportsbook, all the sports. Well.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I have a good finger on the pulse of New
York teams.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Remember two years ago was the Giants.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
We were hyping the Giants with day bole in year
one and they go.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
To the playoffs. We were like, we called it cast
the win total over.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
If the Jets are in the NFC AFC Championship game,
I would not be surprised at all.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Super Bowl mild surprise.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
But I think that's like the floor is winning the division.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays and neon Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Now we're down to the final four. Who are the
ten best players left.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
In these games?
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Ten best players left? I remember we did this during
the NFL's NFL Playoffs for games I'm worried about something,
So I have Porzingis at eleven because I don't know
if he's gonna play. That's fair. I can see Boston
saying if they blew him out tonight, Boston saying, let's
just keep him sideline until we lose the game in
this series. So I'm not gonna put Porzingis in because
I don't know if he's gonna I don't know if
he's gonna play. They have no chance to beat Denver.
(13:07):
They Minnesota or Dallas are too big, too big of
a front line. You've gotta have Porzingis for the finals
or I think they get bullied. Minnesota would bully him.
Dallas is lined since the trade deadline. Pretty physical, pretty
physical front. Don't know if I can ride with you there,
but go off all right, here we go. Here's our
top ten players left between the Celtics, the Pacers, the
(13:29):
t Wolves, and the Mavericks. Here we go.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
Number ten.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I would say Drew Holiday, you get Iq, you get experience,
one of four players left with championship experience. You get defense.
He's a great attack defender, can give you points, but
isn't needy offensively. Again, this is a guy that's played
in big games. One of the most respected, well liked
players in the league. Drew Holiday of the Celtics at ten.
(13:55):
Number nine, often maligned, but outside of Jokich, Rudy Gobert
gives a lot of people trouble. Yo Ki cheats him up.
Yo Ki cheats everybody up, including Anthony Davis. He's a
highly efficient offensive player. His length creates troubles. Hit some
big shots in Game seven against Denver, four time Defensive
(14:17):
Player of the Year. Laugh all you want, Rudy Gobertt nine.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Number eight.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Pascal Siakam was good in Toronto. He's good in Indiana.
You're gonna get twenty one eight from him every time. Physicality.
He's important for Indiana because they play fast and finesse basketball.
He gives them some length and physicality for a team
that's gonna need every ounce of that against the Celtics
twenty one to eight and four efficient offensive player Siakim
(14:44):
a eight. Number seven Carl Anthony Town's a bit inconsistent,
shoots actually a really nice three ball for a guy
that's seven feet. He's often a physical size mismatch because
they've got two bigs. Again, I think he you can
almost tell if somebody's talented based on the market. He's
got a market. I could see the Knicks making a
run at him. I could see several teams making a
(15:04):
run at him. Karl Anthony Towns one of five players
to record a triple double in this year's playoffs. Number seven,
Number six, Tyree's Halliburton leads the Playoffs in a sisper
game at almost eleven. Got his shooting touch in game seven,
so he had an injury, great early, pulled back excellent
(15:25):
in this series. Doesn't make a lot of mistakes, so
you get speed, quickness, assis points, very few turnovers, mostly
air free as sending young player Number five, Kyrie Irving
is playing more of a shooting guard than a point
guard role in this series, so I pull him down
a little. I also don't know exactly what's in his head.
(15:48):
Game to game he can be a little hot and cold,
but he's actually playing defense. He's a remarkable defender. I
would put Kyrie at five, number four, but I think
Jalen Brown's the same guy every game. Excellent wing, versatility
as a defender, strong body. Jalen Brown at four fifty
five percent shooting in the playoffs. Again, I know exactly
(16:11):
what I'm gonna get. Sometimes he wants the ball more
than Jason Tatum down the stretch. He's been good since
he came out of col he gets slightly better every year.
I think he's an underrated, efficient player that can defend
on the wing. Jalen Brown at four, number three. I'd
say Jason Tatum best player on the number one team
all season, A true three level score, transition jumper down low.
(16:36):
Sometimes I wish he was more aggressive, but he's the
most offensively gifted player that's indisputable on a dominant team
in the regular season. Tatum at number three, Number two,
Anthony Edwards's best, arguable, best two way player, remaining unlimited ceiling.
Still needs some refinement. Can be a little hot and
(16:57):
cold with his shooting, but he's developed as a passer
and a facilitator, which is great self awareness, ability to
step back let others shoot. Mike Conley has been so
valuable for his growth and at number two. Number one,
gotta give it to Luca. He can be a dominant score,
virtually impossible to stop when he's in his zone. Led
(17:20):
the regular season in scoring, now leading the playoffs in
assists at over nine a game. There's not much I
don't like. I think at times he can be difficult
to play with in a tad selfish, but that was
an argument you can make about MJ. Kobe and a
lot of great scores. Luca at number one.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and Noone Eastern nine EM Pacific.
Speaker 6 (17:43):
Pollie Fusco here with Tony Fusco. You know, as the
host of the number one rated Paully and Tony Fusco show.
We get tons and tons of fan mail every day.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Piles of it.
Speaker 6 (17:52):
In fact, Tony, why don't you open up one of
those letters right now and read what's inside?
Speaker 7 (17:55):
Hey, listen to this. Dear Pauli and Tony, your sports
takes the dumbest and most terribly that wait one, yeah,
Pauli in Toni, you suck more than anyone, Wait one, Yeah,
Paulie and Tony, you guys are the absolute best.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
There you go coming up with the stupidest take.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Forget Fusco show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I would say fell in love with the NBA. I
watched it in the seventies, but I think the eighties
and early nineties for a lot of our viewers, the
league changed, the players were more sensational. Byron Scott was
part of those great Lakers teams Kareem and Magic. Of course,
Jeff Pearlman wrote the book The Three Ring Circus and
(18:43):
then it's now been made into an HBO Max series,
and it was a special time where teams people. It's
hard to believe teams didn't have their own planes. You
guys flew commercials. You would often on a sty Sam
flight out of Seattle. You're setting next to an insurance
man and a mortgage broker.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
First flight out.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
That was that we had to take every day that
we played. If we had back to backs, couldn't leave
the night after the game because we didn't have our
planes at that particular time. So yeah, we were at
the airport early in the morning first thing smoking.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So you had the Celtics were playing a gritty style
of basketball. It was not an international league, and you
were playing a flashy style of basketball. The game wasn't
as it wasn't global quite yet, and it wasn't televised
as often, so you didn't see a lot of Boston
until you played Boston. My Sonics were up in the Kingdome, yep.
(19:40):
But back then there wasn't as much Byron, there wasn't
as much mobility. So when you face the Sixers for
six years, it was the same dudes, and I do
think that created an animosity and a physicality, Like you knew,
here comes Steve mix Beguinness, Tony. I like that game. Now.
(20:01):
I do think the NBA this year tweaked it to
be more physical.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
But take our audience back to going to Philadelphia or
Cleveland or Chicago and it was the same team every year.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Yeah, it was great because, like you said, you knew
exactly what you were playing against. You knew the stop
of the type of style you were playing against. Like
you said, it was gonna be physical back in the
eighties and nineties. Anyway, I loved the fact that when
we would play Philly, we knew how good Andrew Tony was,
you know. We knew how good Doctor j and more
Cheeks and Bobby Jones was one of the best six
mans in the league coming off the bench. Going to
(20:33):
Boston you got DJ and Danny Age. So I knew
exactly who I was playing against every time we went
back there, and we knew the style that we were
playing against. We knew the type of ball we were
going to be playing against, you know. So I love
that fact about it, you know, And it did create
that animosity because we did not like them, they did
not like us. We obviously had a whole lot more
hatred for Boston because they were always in our way
(20:56):
than we did Philly. You know, we like, we kind
of liked Philly because they were but we couldn't stand
the Celtics. Colin, We couldn't stand the Celtics, you know
what I mean, because they were always in our way.
And then later on we found out why when we
got to you know, no guys off the court a
little bit more. But you know, the Boston Celtic Laker
rivalry I think was one of the greatest ribberries in
(21:16):
all the sports because of the fact that, like you
said earlier, we had that animosity towards one another and
we wanted the same things.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
That was winning championships.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
And you were the two best teams. When you look
at the NBA about ten years ago, it started getting
very international. I'm an NBA fan, so I'm an NFL,
NBA college football guy. One of my criticisms on the
NBA for a while, although I think Adam Silver has
tweaked that the aesthetic was just threes. Yeah, and it's
(21:45):
like Anthony Davis should be around the basket. I don't
need Anthony Davis shooting three it. I don't need Pascal
Siakam shooting threes. Get him around the basket. And I
think the league is moving back towards situational not a
mid range, but the bigs are closer.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
To the rim. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
The international players are fascinating because they play against older
men when they're young, and they come to this country
byron and they're not distracted. They're not into shoe deals,
they don't want to move around. They come here and
want to play for their team mostly forever. Do you
worry that between AAU basketball are distracted players. They go
(22:21):
from g league to one year college that we're losing
a little bit of the old school field. I like
European players a lot, but the league feels different than
it did twenty five thirty years ago.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yeah, European players. You gotta look at a little bit
of history with our American players in the European players.
And I think one of the reasons that European players
have closed that gap so much on basketball, especially the
fundamental part of a coling is because if you look
at AAU players, they place three four games a day
(22:54):
for six seven days a week. They never practice. You
go to Europe, it's total opposite. Practiced twice a day
on fundamentals. You know, very very few games, two games
maybe a week, but they got two practices, you know,
two a day's every single day, and that first day
every morning is all fundamental works. That's why you see
every big man in Europe that can handle the ball,
(23:16):
can shoot it, can pass it, you know, a lah
the joker, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
That's why that gap has closed so much.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
So I think if we don't if we're not careful,
you know, especially American basketball, we got to get back
to those fundamentals of playing the game of basketball. And
I think the league and I love the I love
the fact that you have so many international players just
in the league, you know, because they can play.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
You got to give them the credit. And you're right.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
When they normally come over here, they normally stick with
one team, you know, Dirk Newhisky one, you know, you
know what I mean, Right.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
We're going to stay and be a buck.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
By the way, I'm not knocking our guys for mobility,
but if I visit Italy with my life, I'm a visitor.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Right, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I kind of see it in the neighborhoods that I
kind of had planned to stay. You know, I'm in LA.
I can get in the car and go anywhere, right,
So I like where we're going. So let's talk about
the four teams. You would have done very well in
today's NBA. You are thirty seven percent three balls. You
and Larry Bird were born a little early.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
But I'll tell you a player that's fascinating is that
Luca has done something this year. And he's been scoring
since he was twelve. Yeah, yeah, this year they said
you gotta defend Yeah, and Luca, you can't have the
ball in your hands all the time. That is hard
for a brilliant score. And when I watch him, I'm like, Okay,
(24:41):
he's got self awareness, Like I like that part of Luca. Yeah,
did you know instantly he was going to be this good?
Speaker 4 (24:48):
No, not even close. I mean I saw him in
Europe and I said, all right, he's good. You know
he's getting his shot off. You own these guys. It's
a little bit lower. You'll spend a lot of vertical player. Yeah, yeah,
a little bit slower. You know that is tall, you know.
So I was really wondering what he would look like
in the NBA, and it took me probably about six
months to say, Okay, this guy's pretty damn good. You
(25:08):
know he could score, he gets to where he wants
to go to. But I think, like you said that,
you know his self awareness and Jay kid, you got
to give him a lot of credit for this as
well of letting Luca know that, you know, what will
be a much better team if you're off the ball
sometimes and if you're making the right plays and not
looking to score all the time. And if you look
at that Dallas team right now, that's exactly what you're seeing.
You're looking at a great willing passer. You know, a
(25:31):
guy who can get his shot at any time he wants,
but a guy that his teammates know now that they
that he trusts them, and when he makes those passes,
it does matter. That's why you see Dallas in this
position at their end of the day.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
You know, there was a brief time I always thought
it was overplayed. People talked about small ball, and I'm like,
are we sure small balls? Not just Clay and Staff?
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It didn't win for anybody else, right, right? And now
the league once again it's bigs. Yeah, you and I
were talking before the break. It was Wilt into Kareem.
Everybody had bigs, Yeah, Bob Lanier, Nate Thurman. If you
didn't have a big, you were the Warriors with you know,
a Clifford Ray where you could win a title, or
(26:15):
the Celtics with Dave Cowens. Maybe you could win a title.
But you needed at West Unseld you you needed bigs.
It does feel like the small ball thing. It was fun,
but all I'm watching with Dallas now they brought in
size Minnesota size, porzingis size, I mean, even Pascal Siaka
Miles Turner, Indiana. Did you buy into small ball? What
(26:37):
did you make of it? It doesn't feel like it had legs.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
No, I'm O school, you know, I'm not. You know,
you look at a lot of these teams. They talk
about your positionless basketball, you know, not putting guards or forwards,
you know, just playing. You just got players out there playing.
I still believe that you need those gritty guys. You
need those guys that's gonna do the dirty work. You
need the Kirk rampis is like we had back in
the day. To eight see greens like we had back
(27:01):
in the day. You need those guys that are six ten,
six eleven, seven footers that's gonna do all those dirty
things for you out there on the basketball court, you know,
setting the hardest greens, getting you know, getting the rebound.
Uh So, I like the fact that we're seeing that more.
I like the fact that Dallas went out and got
some lively bodies that are long, you know, athletic, you know,
(27:22):
six eleven seven footers. They can get up and around
the rim, they can block shots, to defend because again,
it takes a lot of pressure off their perimeter players
on the defensive end. Luka for the first time this
year I've seen make efforts on that end of the floor.
And again self awareness of understanding that if you want
to get us to a championship, or if you want
to win a championship or have an opportunity, you got
to play on both ends of the floor.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
And you see he's bowled into that.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
The NBA, my entire life, Byron's got listening for our
radio audience, has been a player's league. Back to Spencer Heywood. Yeah,
I grew up with my Sonics and my Blazers in
the seventies. It was a players league.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Now you cycle through coaches more often. It is what
it is, Okay, I've never I have no envy toward
NBA players having power or money. Load management drives me nuts.
I'm a kid from a small town. Okay, I grew
up in a tiny town. I went to one NBA
game a year if Downtown Freddie Brown and Gus Williams
weren't available. And you can say to yourself, well, but
(28:19):
it wasn't on TV when I was.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
A kid, right right.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I hate load management.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
You're not the only one I don't understand. And when
you sign a contract, you don't sign a contract that
stipulates that. Okay, out of the eighty two games in
the regular season, I'm gonna play seventy because I'm gonna
take twelve off because of load management. I need rest.
You sign a contract to play eighty two games. So
if you're just you know, hurt, you know, and you
got an opportunity where you can play, you play that game.
(28:46):
If you're injured, you don't play. I understand that, right.
So this load management bull to me, is just it's
given the players way too much power to be able
to say, you know what, I need the next couple
of games off, next two games off, because I'm just
I'm getting tired. It don't make sense to me.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Data illustrates or validates, it doesn't help you.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Your efficiency numbers don't change when.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
It doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (29:11):
Yeah, it's a loaded croc, you know, to be honest
with you. So that's how I feel about it. I'm
just not a big fan of load management. I'm always
been a big fan. If you're able to play, play
the game.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
And for the record, wasn't there part of playing the
game that you like to show off?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah? I mean you want to entertain, you know what
I mean. You want to entertain.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
You want people to come back and say, man, did
you see that that shot of that dunk or that
pass or whatever? You know, And you can't do that
if you're sitting down ten twelve, fifteen games a year.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
You know.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
The thing that I loved about Kobe Bean Bryant, you know,
the late great who I loved, was a show big
time as a showman. But he played every game that
he could play. He didn't believe in loads management either,
you know. I mean he played games when he was sick.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
You know that.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I person the last two years asked him, maybe you
should sit this one out.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Nope.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
These people came to see might be the last time
they ever get a chance to see me play.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
So I gotta go play. And that's the type of
players you want.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
Yeah, Yeah, Kobe was. Kobe was one of those players
that was almost an artist. Michael had certain moves that
he went to. He had He's going to go to
the well on about three mid ray and he was great,
best mid range player in my life. Yeah, Kobe was
more canvas as empty. I'm just gonna spill.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Some players, I'm just painted up whichever way it shows up.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
What is it like to coach a player who was
a top five gifted offensive player? Ever, how much do
you coach? How much do you manage? Where did you
land on that?
Speaker 4 (30:46):
I landed on managing, you know what I mean? This
guy was in the league eighteen years, you know, twenty
at the end of it, where he had been around
and has seen everything that can be thrown at him,
has been in every situation on the basketball court, offensively
and defensively.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
So to me, it wasn't me. It wasn't up to me.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
To try to teach him anything offensively or defensive. It's
really just to manage, you know, to manage his minutes,
manage his body, manage his practice time, because at that
time in his age and how many games he had
played when you start including playoff games and things of
that nature, He's probably played thirteen fourteen hundred games in
(31:28):
his career, you know. So I was really just really
just trying to just manage, you know, to make sure
that Kobe Brown was able to play every single night
as much as possible. So from a professional standpoint on teaching,
he didn't need to be taught. He was already he
was already there. It was just really just managing everything.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
So the Celtics start Eastern Conference Finals tonight. The East
is really weak. Add in the injuries, it's been a
lab drill.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So Jason Tatum's fascinating. So I've gone to see him
play three times live. I watch a lot of Celtics games.
Obviously a very good player, yes, And I think about
this I grow up with, you know, I grew up
with more of a Jordan Kobe mindset, which is the
game is mine, get out of the way. That's not
always the easiest game to play with. Tatum is very
(32:16):
much a hey, your turn. There are times I went
and watched them in Chicago live and he was one
of the only stars that played that night. But he
was very willing if there was a if there was
a defender on him to go out to Derek White
and let him go. And I think, man, that's just
not what I grew up with. So what is the
line between? Like I wish Tatum was more selfish occasionally,
(32:41):
but if you look at their net ratings, offensively, it
doesn't necessarily matter where are you on Tatum? His personality
is mentality is game. Where are you on him.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
I love Jason Tatum. I love watching him play the
game of basketball. Like you said, he's a very willing passer.
Sometimes it's just not in a player's makeup to be
Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant where they're gonna take the
shot with three guys on him. They don't care, you know,
because they're also willing to take the hit.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
You know.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
They're willing to be the goat, you know, and they're
also willing to be that sacrificial lamb at times, you know.
So I love his I love his demeanor on the
basketball court. I love the way he plays the game.
But you can't make certain guys to be the next
Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant as far as their mindset, and
he doesn't. I don't think necessarily have that mindset. I
think he will take it if he has to, you know.
(33:29):
But if other guys are going, Jaylen Brown is going,
you know, White is hitting shots, then he's more than
willing to pass the ball. So I don't have a
problem with the way he plays the game. I love
the way he plays the game.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Yeah, I like the way they play the game is Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
They play it as a team.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yep, you suggested that maybe Lebron could be a player coach. Now,
I grew up with Lenny Wilkins, so I've seen it done.
Bill Russell, Lenny Wilkins, Lenny one of the all time gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
In the sport. Yes, yes, right right.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
What was the feedback when you said that on a
show and then went out in LA What was the
feedback you got in your phone by saying that, you know?
Speaker 3 (34:05):
And I got a lot of feedback by that.
Speaker 4 (34:07):
A lot of people were saying that, you know, that's
a great idea, but it won't happen, you know. And
then I had some other people that was like, you're crazy.
You know, what do you talk about? He shouldn't be
the coach?
Speaker 1 (34:18):
And was it tongue in a little bit? Was a
poke at Lebron about you know, you don't like any
of them.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
You do it?
Speaker 4 (34:23):
It was a little bit of a poke, but like
you said, it was a little bit of fun but
seriousness as well.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
But I'm the best option to you.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I like Sam Cassell and I love Mark Jackson.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Mark Jackson, I think is a guy who deserves another
opportunity to coach in this league. Don't know why he's
been sort of blackball from this league for so many years.
If it's not Mark Jackson, I love Sam Cassell because
number one, he's had nothing but experience, you know, on
that bench as a lifelong assistant coach, and everywhere he's
been has done well. You know, the organization has done well.
I think he deserves an opportunity. The name that and
(34:57):
I'm sure calling you heard his name a bunch as
well as JJ ris JJ. The only thing I have
that I would say that I have against him coming
in right off the streets to be the electorate head coach.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
He has no experience, he's never coach.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
When you got your first job, right and everybody bails
wat my first time on the air, we're all bailing
water a little with a new job, right. What is
the hardest thing for a guy that's never been a
head coach goes to a head coach in your first
two months, maybe your first two weeks. What is the
thing where you go, Damn, this is tougher than I thought.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
When you have to make every single decision, you know,
it's not a suggestion.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Anymore as an assistant coach.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
A coach, you know, I think we could you know,
you know, let's read the side pick and rolls well
as the head coach. You know, your word is bond.
You know, whatever you say goes. You know, so understanding
that everything kind of falls on you. Sometimes could be overwhelming,
you know. And I think again, for a guy that's
never coached, I just look at Steve Nash, great player, famer,
(36:00):
never coach in his life. He goes to Brooklyn, doesn't work.
You know, he couldn't get out of there fast. No, no,
I and I really truly think if you have a
year or two on the bench, you know that that
gained experience will help you so much in your next
you know, head coaching or getting a head coach in
position somewhere else or wherever it may be. But going
in there cold Turkey.
Speaker 3 (36:22):
It's a whole lot tougher than you think.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Well and also part of Steve Kerr's success has been
a very good group of assistants behind him. That is
also a strength of the new Boston coach. They updated,
they upgraded the staff. Spose always had very strong assistance
behind us. Yes, sometimes when you're the new guy, you're
just trying to tread water. You can't build a staff
yet that that's hard. Yeah, And Sean McVay for the Rams,
(36:47):
is much better staff builder. It was always a good coach. Yeah,
his staffs now are better than they were his first year. Yeah,
like that's that takes taking a staff absolutely.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
But Steve Kerr the one thing that I would say
is a little bit different than him when he jumped
out from being, you know, doing games to the coaching
coaching ranks. He was in the front office, yes, okay,
so he had a chance to be around the organization
of coaches and players all that time. So it wasn't
like he was jumping in cold turkey. He had been
in situations where he was making decisions on draft picks
(37:19):
and coaches and things of that nature. So it's a
totally different situation of coming from where Steve Kirk came from,
which was the front office, than coming from the booth
and just taking over as.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
A head coach. You look fantastic, Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
I'm not even going to guess your age, but.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I'm older than you. Let's just put it that.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Way, man, you are His wife is a nurse and
a nutritionist. Obviously it's blueberries in the morning and fish
at night. Because dude, you are playing weight.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
You pretty much guessed that too. That's pretty good. That's
pretty good fish at night, lots of it too. Great,
Great Steven Coach, Always a pleasure.
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