May 22, 2024 • 34 mins
Colin dissects the Celtics pulling off a miraculous win in overtime of game 1 of the Eastern Conference Finals over the Pacers after trailing late in regulation and why Jayson Tatum is getting pass for almost losing the game for Boston. Plus, NBA reporter Rachel Nichols joins the show to preview the Western Conference between the Mavericks and the Timberwolves and defend Tatum from Colin's criticisms
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
All Right, welcome in live in Los Angeles. It's the
Herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day. Jmac, You
know we said yesterday, we said listen, this should be
veteran team. Home court advantage been here before, Pacers kind
(00:52):
of taken seven by the wobbling, hobbling Nicks. This is
gonna be a fast one. We may have ourselves a series.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Oh boy, I don't know if the audience is mentally
ready for where you're about to go today.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I'm fired up on this show's going to be an
all timer.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
All right. So, when Denver won a title last year,
maybe I got fooled. I thought this is interesting, this
could last a while. They had the best player in
the league. They were very consistent. They ran their offense
through him. They had a great closer who was always
willing to shoot, in Jamal Murray. I liked their coach,
(01:29):
they could defend. They were a great clutch time team.
You never doubted them Late. I kind of knew what
I had with the Nuggets, and so when they won
last year, I said, it reminds me a lot of
the Spurs. Good scouting, good coaching, a dominant big. Yeah. Well,
maybe I got fooled. I mean, they did lose in
Game seven to a good Minnesota team. Maybe I got fooled.
Maybe they come back. I don't know, But at least
(01:51):
I want to thank the Celtics for their transparency. If
they do win a title this year, no chance at
a dynasty. They're just too weird. This is the strangest team.
They classify as almost a bad team at home in
the playoffs. Unheard of Tatum. He's their best player, but
(02:11):
Al Horford shot twelve threes. I don't know if they're
well coached, what actually is their offense? Let's be honest.
Pacers Lewett twenty one turnovers, two ugly ones late and
Jalen Brown. Here's the game winner. Jalen Brown basically bails
out Boston. No timeouts.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
He's got to get it in throws to the cars.
Jalen forces enough overseas, let me he did it. Tatum
Craft of the Corners pick five point six to go
and that Pacers have given away.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Game one to the moment. But Jason Tatum did not
have a field goal or an assist in the last
nine minutes of regulation. He was fine in over ten,
Tatum was But come on the spur. It's the Pacers.
They're young kids. You could tell from their turnovers they
(03:08):
weren't quite ready for the moment. You expect them to
pull back on the road in overtime a little. But
in a star driven league, Tatum not only disappoints, he
just disappears. And I've been on this for four years.
What is this offense? Where does he go? What is
he thinking to not have an assist? Forget the points
(03:30):
you can shoot poorly, to not have an assist in
the final nine minutes of regulation. I do think Boston
with this group will eventually I think when a title.
But it's a hard team to like and a hard
team to figure out. They're almost the opposite of the team.
Everybody loved the Knicks. They don't have a lot of grit.
(03:51):
They live on the three pointer. They actually have a
lot of talent, but you're not necessarily sure it'll show
up in big moments. And they're star often disappears the
opposite of Jalen Brunson. It's they're the opposite of the Knicks.
They're just not terribly likable unless you're a Celtics fan.
And here's the thing. I went into the series and
(04:12):
I'm thinking, well, young Pacers don't defend. But after last
night I watched them and I think the Pacers are long,
they're deep, they're healthy, they're well coached. We may have
ourselves a series. And for the record, the general manager
(04:33):
of the Celtics, Brad Stevens, he addressed two things in
the offseason so he saw the issues. One of them
you went and got porzingis Al Horford defensive liability in
big games and Pascal Siakam attacked him last night. And
the second thing he went is another offensive player. They
got rid of Marcus Smart. They got a better offensive
(04:54):
player with the same sort of grit in Jalen and
Drew Holliday. And Holiday had his best game as a
Celtic last night. He was great and necessary as Brown
didn't deliver and Tatum disappeared. So Brad Stevens, who just
won Executive of the Year, clearly saw what we have
been talking about and seeing for a couple of years.
(05:16):
They need more talent with size, and they clearly miss Porzingis.
Pascal Siakam is going to be a problem without him.
Report today he may come back for Game four. And
Drew Holliday was crucial last night. Here's Jalen Brown after escaping.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
What was the difference in overtime? I think we just
made some momentum plays.
Speaker 6 (05:38):
Jac finally woke up, made some bastus and we was
able to make some play soarz En, but we got
to be better to be honest, But I'll take the.
Speaker 7 (05:45):
Wing the night.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So one of the things that happens during games like this,
and it's sort of old school and new school. So
if a team, by the way leeds by three and
the other team has the ball with a couple seconds left,
the old feeling, the old school guys like Rick Carlile is, Hey,
I'm gonna let a guy jack up a three. I'm
not gonna foul him. I mean, the best guys in
(06:10):
the league shoot thirty nine to forty percent on threes.
Go ahead, take your chance. And it was Jalen Brown's
only three he hit all game. I kind of tend
to be old school, go beat me, go hit a three.
New school analytics believes you always foul send them to
line instead of the chance he hits a three. Again,
it's only you know, thirty seven, thirty eight at best
(06:32):
forty percent. Somebody hits a late game three, but foul
them even if they hit free throws. You save a point, right,
and you play the math game. But here's the thing.
In the NFL, analytics also tell you you should always
go for two points after a touchdown. Always. Yeah, if
I have McVeigh and Stafford, or Mahomes and Andy Reid
(06:53):
or Kyle Shanahan or a Sean Payton. But what if
I have a shaky O line, limited weapons and Kenny
Peck and a defensive culture, I'm kicking the pat. So
a lot of the analytic ravens, they always think it's
sort of a one size fits all, And my take
has always been, no, it's all situational. I do not
(07:17):
believe you always go for Peyton. Manning has talked about
this at length, is that, you know, everybody wants the
two point in conversion. But if you're playing the Ravens
in their prime and you somehow off a turnover, cobble
together a seven play drive to score a touchdown on
a great throw by Peyton, You're you're struggling to pick
up yards. Your interior offensive line is getting pushed back.
(07:41):
You've got elak corners for the Ravens in their prime.
You just kick a field, you just kick the pat.
So I think in this situation, you know, Al Horford
was their big three point attempt guy last night, Jalen
Brown hadn't hit one. I tend to be a little
old school like. I get it, though, I get the
I'm not anti analytics, but I think it's a lot
(08:03):
more contextual than people say. I don't think it's one
size fits all. I don't think you should always go
for two. Brandon Staley got fired with the Chargers. One
of his big misfirings early was going for it deep
in territory, his own territory, you know, against a team
that had a pretty good quarterback and a good field
goal kicker, and he went for it because analytics say
(08:24):
you should go for it, and in the end, you know,
Charger Nation buried him. These coaches, you gotta be careful.
We all overreact to everything. And so here was Lebron
James in a podcast talking about this situation which seemingly
happens every third playoff game. Do you foul? Do you
let him shoot the three? Here's Lebron.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
A lot of coaches are afraid to tell their team
to foul on them three because one either one they
haven't worked on it, or two it is you know,
with our rules and things, this gets tricky sometimes and
you send a guy to the free throw line, you know,
because you try to file them in a case. But
(09:06):
I'm following.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Mind the Game podcast now, I was thinking about this.
If I coached the Celtics and I had Drew Holliday,
Tatum Brown, Porzingis and they were all on the floor,
even in al Harford. They're old, veteran players, I would
trust them to make the right foul. But as Lebron
pointed out, the Pacers are young, They're terrible defensively. They're
on the road. You know, do they hesitate? Do they
(09:33):
foul somebody? As he's shooting. They hit a three. So again,
if I'm Boston's coach, I would be much more confident
late game Fouling play the analytic math game Pacers. I
wouldn't feel that same level of confidence. Carlisle, after took
the loss, took the blame. I get it. That's what
(09:55):
you do. You want your team to feel like, hey,
I screwed up. You played great? Now I would I
would hope that the Celtics in Game two at home
would play with a lot more urgency. But I'm watching
that last night and I don't know Jay Mack what
the line is for game two. I would think Boston's
favored by six or seven or eight. But I was
(10:16):
I was looking at the Pacers, and I'm like, with
porzingis out, Siakam can eat. They're deep, you know, they
have a good rotation, they're well coached. We may have
a series. What is the line? I will try to
pull it up here on I would bet you it's
seven and a half Boston.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Historically, when a team blows the opportunity to win a
game one like that, they get destroyed in games.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, but I mean, was this just a bad showing
by Boston or did you watch it and think with
Porzingis out, they've got a ton of length, they're gonna
keep it close.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Indiana blew the game clearly, Haliburton with the turnovers late,
Holiday did come up an down Halliburton. I think Haliburton
was zero for six shooting with two turnovers matched up
with Holliday, who's a superstar. I'm a little surprised that
the Jason Tatum disrespect out of you, Colin, But.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Not a single point or assist at home against a
bad defensive team for nine minutes.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
What happened in overtime.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
No, he did a good job. He hit an open
three on a blown defensive assignment.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Dominant.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
But again, this is not MJ's Bulls. This is the
worst defensive team in the league. They're young, they're on
the road, twenty one turnovers, they were anxious, they were
tight late. I give that the Pacers need to win
these games comfortably. If these games are close, you wouldn't
take the young team, You'd take the veteran team with
(11:44):
a Tatum Brown combo. But nine minutes at home against
the Pacers, not an assist.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
The offense is weird. I mean, Indy was sell it
saying we won Horford to take all the shots. Horford said,
I'll take all the shots. He's like thirty seven years old,
and he played forty minutes calling.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I didn't think that was a great job by the
Celtics coachs, like get the other guys in there, get
the end of the bench guys in for a few minutes. Horford,
he was getting destroyed in the pick and roll fourth quarter.
I think they attacked they well for six shooting against Horford.
They were like, bring me Horford.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, and that's exactly what they're gonna do. So Porzinga
should play in Game four, that's what they're saying. Our
take was, you don't play Porzingis until you lose. After
last night, you know, this is why these playoffs have
been great. Like I thought Okac was gonna take advantage,
Kyrie sort of disappeared. All of a sudden, Kyrie re emerges.
They play real defense, They knock out Oka. See we
(12:35):
love Denver. When they were up three to two in
that series, they evaporate. We thought that we thought the
Knicks would win Game seven at home. They fell apart.
We thought last night would be a blowout. When you
don't have a great team, and you have good teams
to very good teams, you get a lot of surprises.
I mean, I think that's the one thing in the
(12:55):
NFL playoffs there's not that many surprises. You have star quarterback,
often at home, they should be favored. I mean, Baltimore
losing to Kansas City, You're like, it's mahomes in reed. Okay.
But the reason I think we're seeing a lot of
these elements and these surprises, these are just good teams
to vary. I think Minnesota and Dallas are very good.
I think Boston is very good. But I'll tell you
(13:18):
that length of Indiana and that depth, we may have
a serious.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I think Boston was up twelve late third quarters, they
pull Tatum and Indy just torches them and you got
a close game. Haliburton hits the shot at the buzzer
and you're like, oh my gosh, remember Tatum was plus
twenty laston.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
When he's on the floor, Boston's rolling.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
There's no question.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
When he's off the floor, it's like, oh, maybe they're
not as deep as we thought.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Too many small guys, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
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Speaker 1 (13:50):
So you love Jason Tatum. I like him a lot.
This is not Tatum. Hey, we're gonna play a game
called Tatum or Tate out, So fourth quarter? Who would
I want in the big spots? And I will give
you data and see if you can refuse me. You're
ready to go, You give me the player and I'll
(14:11):
give you Tatum or Tata out.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Jason Tatum or Anthony Edwards.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
This is one of the tougher ones. But I'll go
Anthony Edwards because what I saw fifty four percent from
three point range in the fourth quarter this postseason, So
he can be a bit of a streaky shooter, but
he has been best in the biggest spots fourth quarter,
reshooting fifty seven percent and fifty four from three. I'm
(14:38):
gonna give him a slight edge over Tatum.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Tatum or shake Gilgess Alexander.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Now, this isn't a hard one. Sga is a more
aggressive offensive player, and the data shows you he's plus
twenty eight in the postseason fourth quarter, his highest plus
minus of any quarter, so he is more relied bowl
Tatum has his worst plus minus minus twenty three in
(15:06):
the fourth quarter this postseason. So literally, they're opposites, all right.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Jason Tatum or Luca Dantig.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Luca Okay, let's let's he is. I think it's fair
to say he is the world's best shot maker right now,
that's fair to say.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
All right, look at sorry, Jason Tatum or Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Jalen Brunson as a fourth quarter player. Brunson leading scorer
in the fourth quarter this postseason and not surrounded by
a lot of outs. Everybody in the world knows Brunson's
getting the ball. There's no there's no Jalen Brown, there's
no Derek White in the corner. It's a it's a
cobble together lineup with a defensive coach. And Brunson leads
(15:51):
the fourth quarter in scoring he did when he was
still playing.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Me Tatum or Kyrie Irvy.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Now, I think Kyrie is the best closer of his generation.
Both hands. Now he can go a little sideways, but
so can Tatum. Last night, not a pointer or a
field goal in nine minutes in the fourth quarter. Also,
Kyrie has his fewest turnovers in the postseason, and this
matters because he has the ball a lot. So Kyrie
and Halliburton's usually pretty good at this wasn't last night.
(16:18):
Halliburton's a low turnover guy. Last night was a mess,
big spot for the team. But Kyrie has been very
efficient late and no turnovers.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Jason Tatum wore the Lakers new build around guy, Anthony Davis.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Jason Tatum, I would take Anthony Davis. I believe he
is such a strident defender. He is such a key
defender against Biggs that I think Ad sometimes feels worn
down in the fourth quarter. He had his lowest scoring
average three and a half points and his lowest field
goal percentage thirty six percent in the fourth quarter of
(16:51):
this postseason. So the data tells you Ady gets worn down,
and offensively he takes a step back late right.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Tatum wore fifty seven year old Lebron James.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
One possession. It's not close. I take Lebron. Lebron led
the NBA in fourth quarter baskets this year. Now you
can knock him for not always being there. He's sort
of regressed badly on defense. He's doing more podcasting than
defending these days. But for a fourth quarter bucket, Lebron's fantastic.
He is a great closer.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Right Tatum or Steph Curry?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Well, Steph Curry won he didn't play in the big playoffs,
but he won Clutch Time Player of the Year in
the NBA. Yeah, so you didn't argue with that, the
Luca and Curry, you're not even arguing Tatum or Devin Booker. Well,
I would say Tatum because Booker is no longer the
number one scoring option for the Suns, Katie is, So
I think that's I think Tatum's more of a go
(17:44):
to guy for the.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Night fourth, So then Tatum or Durant.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Durant is still in that Luca class is one of
the world's best shot makers, especially late in the clock. Katie,
I've got my issues with him sometimes. I think he's
a bit of a wanderer. But KD was the leading
scorer in the fourth quarter in NBA playoff history behind
I'm gonna read this, third leading scorer in the fourth
quarter in NBA playoff history behind MJ is one of
(18:10):
the players he's behind. Yeah, Tatum ranks fifty to ninth
in fourth quarter scoring average at NBA playoff history.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
He's twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Jason Tatum or Jamal Murray.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, I think Jamal. I think we saw it in
the postseason. Jamal's not as good as Tatum, But in
terms of a big shot maker late Murray had his
highest field goal percentage in the fourth quarter of this postseason.
So whereas Ad gets worn down, Jamal Murray with Jokic
carrying the load, often has a lot of gas left
(18:43):
in the tank and is a very good shot maker late.
I don't think that's a reach. I think that's his
specially late game shot making. Tatum or nicolea jokicch Well,
I'm gonna go with the best player in the world
and then.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And Tatum or Jalen Brown come on.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Number. Yeah, Brent Brown averages its few as points assists,
But I also think Brown is an energy guy that
plays on the defensive end. Sometimes these guys that really
give you a defensive effort, like Lebron, by the way,
led the NBA and fourth quarter buckets, Lebron doesn't. He
doesn't use a lot of his energy on the defensive side.
I would say Lebron tends to be sort of he's
got his foot off the pedal. He's saving energy for
(19:21):
the fourth which is not a bad It's actually very
smart as you age as a player. Pick your spots.
MJ was great at that, pick your spots. Bird was
great at that. So again Jason over ad, Tatum over Booker,
Tatum over Brown. But the numbers, now, the one that
people will push back on could be Anthony Edwards because
(19:42):
what do I know one but he is. The numbers
tell you a story that he was at his best
field going three points. So I'm gonna go with the data.
Like I saw a story this morning. Everybody's like, the
economy is terrible, and then they go back and they
look at unemployment and they look at all the gd
and everybody's like, well, it's not really terrible. The data said,
(20:03):
it's not terrible. We have inflation. But I'm these data
is telling me these are the right choices. Are you
which one of all these bothers you the most.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I'll let our next guest handle this, because I mean, Colin,
you take like seventy five guys over Jason Tatum.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
And the clutch. Let me realize here, come on, he's
a top five player in the league. He's an All
NBA guy. I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Did you watch that nine minutes where he didn't.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Well, I watched the overtime when he won the game
for them, didn't get overtime without Jamis len Brown lucky shot.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yes, all right, be sure to catch live editions of
The Herd weekdays and noon Eastern nan e Empacific.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
Palie Foosco here with Tony Fusco. You know, as the
host of the number one rated Paully and Tony Fusco show,
we get tons and tons of fan mail every day,
piles of it. In fact, Tony, why don't you open
up one of those letters right now and read what's inside?
Speaker 9 (20:54):
Hey, listen to this. Dear Paulie and Tony, your sports
takes the dumbest and most terrible not wait one, yeah,
Paulie and Tony, you suck more than anyone. Waite dea,
Paulie and Tony, you guys are the absolute best.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
There you go, coming.
Speaker 9 (21:11):
Up with the stupidest thaet Fusco show on the iHeart
Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Let's bring in Rachel Nichols. I don't like being marginalized.
I do not like how I'm being positioned Rachel on
this show, but I will say, I said this to
start the show, is the Celtics are nothing if not
a little strange. Historically. They are a kind of almost
(21:42):
a well by their standards, a bad home playoff team.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Eight of the last eleven losses they've had have been
at home.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Okay, I don't know if they're well coached, although the
staff is better. Tatum has moments where he disappears, and
and I don't love Al Horford taking twelve three. So
sometimes Charles Barkley's touched on this. What is that offense?
You know? I said this a year ago. I thought
(22:10):
Denver could be a dynasty. Still could be, but I
knew what they were. Well coached, run through Jokic, good defensively,
great at home, Murray a late game shot maker. Yep,
I still don't know what the Celtics are in the
fourth quarter.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
I mean, they're going to look different When Chris epsporzingis.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Sult especially defensively, he can help one hundred.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Here's the thing about last night. There's no doubt the
Pacers choked away that game, no question, boneheaded decision after
boneheaded decision. Rick Carlo came out and said after the loss,
he said, oh, this is my fault and people kind
of were like, oh, he's just covering first player, So no, no, no,
he's right because they were up when he did not
call a time out to inbound the ball where he
(22:50):
could have advanced it. And then there is no Jalen
Brown shot. There's none of that. That happens and you
foul someone and you get two shots and you're up
by three and it doesn't matter. So there was just
my own had to put stuff all the way around. However,
just because the Pacers choked their chance away doesn't mean
I hate this narrative. They handed it to the Celtics.
There is nothing about the way the Celtics have played
(23:12):
in the biggest moments at the end of games. They
gave people, Oh that's an automatic, that's just faith. We
have criticized them over and over again, even though their
clutch numbers are generally pretty good situationally, when it's come
to when it really counts, they've been a bit discombobulated.
And that didn't happen. You talk about this Jalen Brown shot.
Jalen is a twenty two percent shooter on corner threes
(23:34):
this playoffs. That was not a gimme. Yeah, right, and
you look at Jason Tatum, who made that shot that
you guys are talking about with one minute to go
in overtime. He didn't make those shots throughout most of
that game, and yet there he was at the end.
So I just think when you look at them and
you say, what is this offense? Who is this team?
They're obviously still figuring it out, but I have to
(23:55):
give them credit for figuring out more last night after
not playing a very good regular you know, in regulation game,
that they actually came together and did what they keep
saying they are, which is an elite team. And I
just think that we're starting to see.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Chris Finch talked about this. I'm old enough. In the seventies,
it was a lot of good teams, Sixers, Blazers, Sonics
Warriors at the time, Washington Bullets, Elvin Hayes and you
know Wes Unseld and Kevin Greevy. A lot of good teams,
no great ones. I feel like the talent now because
of the international surplus, is the best it's ever been,
(24:34):
but it's all spread out and part of this, I think, Rachel,
I'll throw this at you when I travel overseas. I
know I'm a guest. I stay where I stay. Everything's planned.
I don't get distracted. I stay on. When internationals players
come over here, then I'll move around a lot. They
pick a team, they're loyal. You don't get this, Hey,
(24:56):
let's join the country club, Let's join the super team. Right,
that's kind of a domestic player thing. They feel like
this is ours. I feel like that international players. Giannis
can threaten get me dang, but he's still a buck.
And I think the good news for the league is
that creates parody. Ye his players are Luca wants to
stay in Dallas forever, and off season he's going to
(25:18):
go do his things. Aways Jokic. They have a full
life over there. But I do think the league's more talented.
But I think it's all. I think it's an all
time high for parody.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
Absolutely. I don't think there's any question. You know, we
talk about Bill Russell and all the titles he won,
and when we got to the Michael Jordan era, there
is no one who thought man Michael should have won eleven. Right,
the league was so different, the number of teams was different,
the amount of parody was different. Michael Jordan won six titles.
I do not think that anyone else following behind him
one now that we've reached this stage, yeah, can win
(25:50):
six titles. I don't think it's available. Yeah, because, as
you say, the international players have raised the level of
the game. It's kind of like integrating baseball when you
know you have a much you have an influx of
guys who are very good coming into the league. The
ground rules are going to change, and we have had this.
You know, look a look at the last MVPs. Look
(26:11):
at the finalists for MVP this year. None of them
are American, And I'm just saying we're never going to
get another American MVP. I think, you know, there's some
candidates who are going to be playing tonight who could
end up there. But I just I don't think anyone
come in six anymore. And that parody makes it more
exciting for all of us.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, the t Wolves, MAVs, it is Dallas deserves credit twofold.
They took a big swing on Kyrie Bumpy early, but
now it works, and they took a big swing at
the trade deadline beg. And we have said for years
aggressive mostly wins in sports, even if the Russell Wilson
(26:49):
thing fails because you get such a surplus of draft
talent and football you can recover very quickly if you
find the right guy. But a year ago, I didn't
like Brunson is taking over New york Y. Kyrie's being Kyrie.
They can't defend the rim. I don't know. I think
(27:09):
Dallas matches up pretty well with Minnesota.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Yeah, I think he's gonna be a fantastic series. I mean,
this is definitely the series of the playoffs at this point.
And when you look at what Dallas has done, I
don't think there was a comfort level with Kyrie and Luca.
He came so late in the season and there were injuries,
and I just don't think they ever got there where
they knew who was going to go win, and there's
a lot of my turn, your turn and all of
that stuff. And Kyrie did look around a little bit
(27:32):
over the summer when he was a free agent, but
the MAVs made it clear from the minute he walked
in the door, you are our guy. We traded for
you and gave up a bunch of stuff for you,
even though you have an expiring contract. That's how much
faith we have in you. Jason Kidd, who has been
Kyrie's idol for so long. Kyrie Irving went to Jason
Kidd's Hall of Fame induction, not because at that point
(27:53):
they had a special relationship, just because he was like,
this is my favorite player and I want to see
him in the Hall of Fame. I mean, Jason didn't
invite him, he just showed up, So it's worth So
the fact that this has worked for them has been
so great. And they did take a huge swing at
the trade deadline because they mortgaged a lot for these guys,
and so far they have come through. My question is
can the role players continue to play as well as
(28:15):
they did in the last series in this series, because
you needed Derek Jones Junior or PJ. Washington to tip
in at least nineteen points a night, and PJ. Washington
had a spectacular end of Game six, but he was
shooting twenty something percent before the final minutes. So he
can't do that in this game tonight. He can't do
that for the series. So we'll see if the role
(28:37):
players can play above their heads again. And then Dallas
is reel shot at it.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So there's a story out there, and I don't think
it's that far fetched that the Lakers think Reddick has
a pat Riley vibe.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
I don't know, man, I don't buy any of it.
First of all, I mean, you're not going to get
the Godfather look in the Armadi se. JJ's a very
sharp dresser. But I'm just saying just in terms of
how prepared they are for the league. JJ, Reddick is
going to be an excellent head coach. I just believe that.
I think he will be a head coach, and I
(29:11):
think he will be very good at it. However, to
compare him to pat Riley, who not only when he
was in broadcasting, he broadcasted locally for the Lakers, so
he watched that team. He played for that team, and
then he watched that team every night, night in and
night out. He knew the guys super well. Everybody was
very familiar with each other. And then he became an
(29:32):
assistant coach. He was an assistant coach for two plus
seasons before he took over. That's the biggest knock on JJ.
I think everyone knows how good he's going to be.
It's just can you walk into being a head coach
of a team with two superstars that needs to win? Now?
If you have no experience. That was not pat Riley.
Pat Riley had experience. He was on that bench, he
was in the locker room, he was in the coaches meetings,
(29:54):
and I just don't see the one to one.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, I get that good point. We've said before that
it's because of the mobility of the league. Rachel Nichols
for our radio audience, it is hard to create a culture.
So Miami did it with d Wade, and they had
Shat come in and Lebron come in, but they maintain
their culture.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
I mean they did it with a Lonzo morning Off
of that.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right, and Haslum was part of it, even even when
he later in his career. And then d Wade leaves
and Pat's like, we gotta we gotta go find a
d Wade type player. They get Jimmy Butler, who leans
into that sort of tough, gritty when the red light's on.
I'm great. So I think the Warriors with Steve Kerr
started with Mark Jackson, but Steve Kerkr there was a
(30:38):
culture catch and react. It's a pretty high IQ offense.
Young people could struggle, but they did well poaching veterans
and getting them to work. There's not another team in
the league where I watched them play and think, oh,
that's a culture more than the Knicks. It's a Villanova thing,
it's a TIBs thing, and they sort of eat off
(31:00):
each other.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
And so I think we realize they need another skill player.
Julius Randall playoff history is not ideal, but you can't
screw up the culture.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Well that who they're going to bring in is going
to be so important, and I do think they need
to bring someone else in, and I think they will
bring someone else in. I see that Devin Booker talk.
I don't see Phoenix trading Devin Booker. So I just
I don't think that's a realistic path to go down.
Mikhal Bridges, on the other hand, talk about culture. He
is a Villanova guy. I mean, those guys love each other,
they play for each other. It gives them that feel
(31:33):
of that college team. I don't know if you can
pry him away, but he would be a great fit there.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So I have to give up as much.
Speaker 6 (31:41):
No, No, I like that move. You know they've talked
about DeMar derozen I think you got to look around
the Bulls roster. I think Zach Lavine would be an
interesting you know, fit there. I don't know for sure
that he's a TIBs guy, but I do know that
he has never been put in the position in Chicago
to really be his full potential, and I just think
it's been a crummy situation for him the entire time
(32:02):
he's been there. And I would be interested to see
whether he could stand up physically to a TIBs season
and how he would do there, because man, he's got height,
He's such a shot maker. He would space the floor
completely differently, take some of the pressure off Jalen Brunson,
you know, to be the forty point guy every single night.
I think there are options for the Knicks that aren't
necessarily the bring Downavan mitchellin not going to happen, bring
(32:26):
Devin Booker in. Don't see it happening. There are guys
around the league who you could go out and get
who I think would really fit in there. And it's
a credit to the front office as you say that
they built a team around Tibbs. They knew who they
had and they built a team that could be in
his careacter.
Speaker 7 (32:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
The utter thing about the Knicks, they're not devoid of talent,
Brunson's clearly an a Mitchell Robinson can protect the rim.
I think, I know he was a bounce around the
league guy, but Dante DiVincenzo has become an excellent catch
and shoot three point guy, like a really good OG's
a ballder. So it's not like in in the East,
(33:01):
you don't have to have KD. So the Michale Bridges thing,
a lot of people will push back and say it's
not enough, and my takeaway is it does add to
the culture. There's no tale like thist some size too.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
By the way, compared to those Villanova teammates, they're with
the Knicks right now.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Can Indiana make it a series? I was saying, they're long,
they're deep, they're good offensively, and they have a coach
with experience. I'm watched that last night. I'm like, okay,
I've got to stop giving the Celtics this credit. And
I'm like, when you're such an underdog, So the Pacers
weren't a big underdog in New York, but when you're
going in as a huge underdog, kind of loose, certainly deep, healthy.
(33:43):
I mean, I'll watched that last night and I thought, Okay,
Boston's gonna win the series. But oh, it could go
six right, Yeah?
Speaker 6 (33:48):
No, I think this series absolutely could go six games.
And that won't be because the Celtics fell apart. It
will be because the Pacers are a legitimate team. And yes,
they're an underdog in this series, there's no question about that.
But the way they play, as we saw last night.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
And it kind of gave away last night. They were really.
Speaker 6 (34:05):
Sneckye absolutely gave away last night. But you heard after
the game the Celtics players saying, we got to get
with that pace, we got to play faster, we got
to get with that pace. That is what the Pacers
do to you. I mean they play like every player
is physically on fire in the middle of a tornado.
It is hectic, it is chaotic, it is quick, and
(34:26):
if you can't keep up with that, you were going
to have a problem. And the Pacers are younger and
they've shown themselves to be durable and they have a
deep bench. So I think I don't think this is
a walkover, but I also think the Celtics win.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, Porzingis didn't feel to me vital going into it,
and then I watched Siaco, morecl Horford and I'm like,
they need Porzingis I close it out? Yeah, because remember
Indiana is a very good home team. Rachel Nichols Asol
was great seeing you.
Speaker 6 (34:52):
Thank you.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
All Right, welcome in live in Los Angeles. It's the
Herd wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day. Jmac, You
know we said yesterday, we said listen, this should be
veteran team. Home court advantage been here before, Pacers kind
(00:52):
of taken seven by the wobbling, hobbling Nicks. This is
gonna be a fast one. We may have ourselves a series.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Oh boy, I don't know if the audience is mentally
ready for where you're about to go today.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I'm fired up on this show's going to be an
all timer.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
All right. So, when Denver won a title last year,
maybe I got fooled. I thought this is interesting, this
could last a while. They had the best player in
the league. They were very consistent. They ran their offense
through him. They had a great closer who was always
willing to shoot, in Jamal Murray. I liked their coach,
(01:29):
they could defend. They were a great clutch time team.
You never doubted them Late. I kind of knew what
I had with the Nuggets, and so when they won
last year, I said, it reminds me a lot of
the Spurs. Good scouting, good coaching, a dominant big. Yeah. Well,
maybe I got fooled. I mean, they did lose in
Game seven to a good Minnesota team. Maybe I got fooled.
Maybe they come back. I don't know, But at least
(01:51):
I want to thank the Celtics for their transparency. If
they do win a title this year, no chance at
a dynasty. They're just too weird. This is the strangest team.
They classify as almost a bad team at home in
the playoffs. Unheard of Tatum. He's their best player, but
(02:11):
Al Horford shot twelve threes. I don't know if they're
well coached, what actually is their offense? Let's be honest.
Pacers Lewett twenty one turnovers, two ugly ones late and
Jalen Brown. Here's the game winner. Jalen Brown basically bails
out Boston. No timeouts.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
He's got to get it in throws to the cars.
Jalen forces enough overseas, let me he did it. Tatum
Craft of the Corners pick five point six to go
and that Pacers have given away.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Game one to the moment. But Jason Tatum did not
have a field goal or an assist in the last
nine minutes of regulation. He was fine in over ten,
Tatum was But come on the spur. It's the Pacers.
They're young kids. You could tell from their turnovers they
(03:08):
weren't quite ready for the moment. You expect them to
pull back on the road in overtime a little. But
in a star driven league, Tatum not only disappoints, he
just disappears. And I've been on this for four years.
What is this offense? Where does he go? What is
he thinking to not have an assist? Forget the points
(03:30):
you can shoot poorly, to not have an assist in
the final nine minutes of regulation. I do think Boston
with this group will eventually I think when a title.
But it's a hard team to like and a hard
team to figure out. They're almost the opposite of the team.
Everybody loved the Knicks. They don't have a lot of grit.
(03:51):
They live on the three pointer. They actually have a
lot of talent, but you're not necessarily sure it'll show
up in big moments. And they're star often disappears the
opposite of Jalen Brunson. It's they're the opposite of the Knicks.
They're just not terribly likable unless you're a Celtics fan.
And here's the thing. I went into the series and
(04:12):
I'm thinking, well, young Pacers don't defend. But after last
night I watched them and I think the Pacers are long,
they're deep, they're healthy, they're well coached. We may have
ourselves a series. And for the record, the general manager
(04:33):
of the Celtics, Brad Stevens, he addressed two things in
the offseason so he saw the issues. One of them
you went and got porzingis Al Horford defensive liability in
big games and Pascal Siakam attacked him last night. And
the second thing he went is another offensive player. They
got rid of Marcus Smart. They got a better offensive
(04:54):
player with the same sort of grit in Jalen and
Drew Holliday. And Holiday had his best game as a
Celtic last night. He was great and necessary as Brown
didn't deliver and Tatum disappeared. So Brad Stevens, who just
won Executive of the Year, clearly saw what we have
been talking about and seeing for a couple of years.
(05:16):
They need more talent with size, and they clearly miss Porzingis.
Pascal Siakam is going to be a problem without him.
Report today he may come back for Game four. And
Drew Holliday was crucial last night. Here's Jalen Brown after escaping.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
What was the difference in overtime? I think we just
made some momentum plays.
Speaker 6 (05:38):
Jac finally woke up, made some bastus and we was
able to make some play soarz En, but we got
to be better to be honest, But I'll take the.
Speaker 7 (05:45):
Wing the night.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
So one of the things that happens during games like this,
and it's sort of old school and new school. So
if a team, by the way leeds by three and
the other team has the ball with a couple seconds left,
the old feeling, the old school guys like Rick Carlile is, Hey,
I'm gonna let a guy jack up a three. I'm
not gonna foul him. I mean, the best guys in
(06:10):
the league shoot thirty nine to forty percent on threes.
Go ahead, take your chance. And it was Jalen Brown's
only three he hit all game. I kind of tend
to be old school, go beat me, go hit a three.
New school analytics believes you always foul send them to
line instead of the chance he hits a three. Again,
it's only you know, thirty seven, thirty eight at best
(06:32):
forty percent. Somebody hits a late game three, but foul
them even if they hit free throws. You save a point, right,
and you play the math game. But here's the thing.
In the NFL, analytics also tell you you should always
go for two points after a touchdown. Always. Yeah, if
I have McVeigh and Stafford, or Mahomes and Andy Reid
(06:53):
or Kyle Shanahan or a Sean Payton. But what if
I have a shaky O line, limited weapons and Kenny
Peck and a defensive culture, I'm kicking the pat. So
a lot of the analytic ravens, they always think it's
sort of a one size fits all, And my take
has always been, no, it's all situational. I do not
(07:17):
believe you always go for Peyton. Manning has talked about
this at length, is that, you know, everybody wants the
two point in conversion. But if you're playing the Ravens
in their prime and you somehow off a turnover, cobble
together a seven play drive to score a touchdown on
a great throw by Peyton, You're you're struggling to pick
up yards. Your interior offensive line is getting pushed back.
(07:41):
You've got elak corners for the Ravens in their prime.
You just kick a field, you just kick the pat.
So I think in this situation, you know, Al Horford
was their big three point attempt guy last night, Jalen
Brown hadn't hit one. I tend to be a little
old school like. I get it, though, I get the
I'm not anti analytics, but I think it's a lot
(08:03):
more contextual than people say. I don't think it's one
size fits all. I don't think you should always go
for two. Brandon Staley got fired with the Chargers. One
of his big misfirings early was going for it deep
in territory, his own territory, you know, against a team
that had a pretty good quarterback and a good field
goal kicker, and he went for it because analytics say
(08:24):
you should go for it, and in the end, you know,
Charger Nation buried him. These coaches, you gotta be careful.
We all overreact to everything. And so here was Lebron
James in a podcast talking about this situation which seemingly
happens every third playoff game. Do you foul? Do you
let him shoot the three? Here's Lebron.
Speaker 7 (08:44):
A lot of coaches are afraid to tell their team
to foul on them three because one either one they
haven't worked on it, or two it is you know,
with our rules and things, this gets tricky sometimes and
you send a guy to the free throw line, you know,
because you try to file them in a case. But
(09:06):
I'm following.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Mind the Game podcast now, I was thinking about this.
If I coached the Celtics and I had Drew Holliday,
Tatum Brown, Porzingis and they were all on the floor,
even in al Harford. They're old, veteran players, I would
trust them to make the right foul. But as Lebron
pointed out, the Pacers are young, They're terrible defensively. They're
on the road. You know, do they hesitate? Do they
(09:33):
foul somebody? As he's shooting. They hit a three. So again,
if I'm Boston's coach, I would be much more confident
late game Fouling play the analytic math game Pacers. I
wouldn't feel that same level of confidence. Carlisle, after took
the loss, took the blame. I get it. That's what
(09:55):
you do. You want your team to feel like, hey,
I screwed up. You played great? Now I would I
would hope that the Celtics in Game two at home
would play with a lot more urgency. But I'm watching
that last night and I don't know Jay Mack what
the line is for game two. I would think Boston's
favored by six or seven or eight. But I was
(10:16):
I was looking at the Pacers, and I'm like, with
porzingis out, Siakam can eat. They're deep, you know, they
have a good rotation, they're well coached. We may have
a series. What is the line? I will try to
pull it up here on I would bet you it's
seven and a half Boston.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Historically, when a team blows the opportunity to win a
game one like that, they get destroyed in games.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, but I mean, was this just a bad showing
by Boston or did you watch it and think with
Porzingis out, they've got a ton of length, they're gonna
keep it close.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Indiana blew the game clearly, Haliburton with the turnovers late,
Holiday did come up an down Halliburton. I think Haliburton
was zero for six shooting with two turnovers matched up
with Holliday, who's a superstar. I'm a little surprised that
the Jason Tatum disrespect out of you, Colin, But.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Not a single point or assist at home against a
bad defensive team for nine minutes.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
What happened in overtime.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
No, he did a good job. He hit an open
three on a blown defensive assignment.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Dominant.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
But again, this is not MJ's Bulls. This is the
worst defensive team in the league. They're young, they're on
the road, twenty one turnovers, they were anxious, they were
tight late. I give that the Pacers need to win
these games comfortably. If these games are close, you wouldn't
take the young team, You'd take the veteran team with
(11:44):
a Tatum Brown combo. But nine minutes at home against
the Pacers, not an assist.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
The offense is weird. I mean, Indy was sell it
saying we won Horford to take all the shots. Horford said,
I'll take all the shots. He's like thirty seven years old,
and he played forty minutes calling.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
I didn't think that was a great job by the
Celtics coachs, like get the other guys in there, get
the end of the bench guys in for a few minutes. Horford,
he was getting destroyed in the pick and roll fourth quarter.
I think they attacked they well for six shooting against Horford.
They were like, bring me Horford.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, and that's exactly what they're gonna do. So Porzinga
should play in Game four, that's what they're saying. Our
take was, you don't play Porzingis until you lose. After
last night, you know, this is why these playoffs have
been great. Like I thought Okac was gonna take advantage,
Kyrie sort of disappeared. All of a sudden, Kyrie re emerges.
They play real defense, They knock out Oka. See we
(12:35):
love Denver. When they were up three to two in
that series, they evaporate. We thought that we thought the
Knicks would win Game seven at home. They fell apart.
We thought last night would be a blowout. When you
don't have a great team, and you have good teams
to very good teams, you get a lot of surprises.
I mean, I think that's the one thing in the
(12:55):
NFL playoffs there's not that many surprises. You have star quarterback,
often at home, they should be favored. I mean, Baltimore
losing to Kansas City, You're like, it's mahomes in reed. Okay.
But the reason I think we're seeing a lot of
these elements and these surprises, these are just good teams
to vary. I think Minnesota and Dallas are very good.
I think Boston is very good. But I'll tell you
(13:18):
that length of Indiana and that depth, we may have
a serious.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I think Boston was up twelve late third quarters, they
pull Tatum and Indy just torches them and you got
a close game. Haliburton hits the shot at the buzzer
and you're like, oh my gosh, remember Tatum was plus
twenty laston.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
When he's on the floor, Boston's rolling.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
There's no question.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
When he's off the floor, it's like, oh, maybe they're
not as deep as we thought.
Speaker 4 (13:39):
Too many small guys, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and newone easternn AM Pacific on Fox Sports Radio FS
one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
So you love Jason Tatum. I like him a lot.
This is not Tatum. Hey, we're gonna play a game
called Tatum or Tate out, So fourth quarter? Who would
I want in the big spots? And I will give
you data and see if you can refuse me. You're
ready to go, You give me the player and I'll
(14:11):
give you Tatum or Tata out.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Jason Tatum or Anthony Edwards.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
This is one of the tougher ones. But I'll go
Anthony Edwards because what I saw fifty four percent from
three point range in the fourth quarter this postseason, So
he can be a bit of a streaky shooter, but
he has been best in the biggest spots fourth quarter,
reshooting fifty seven percent and fifty four from three. I'm
(14:38):
gonna give him a slight edge over Tatum.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Tatum or shake Gilgess Alexander.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Now, this isn't a hard one. Sga is a more
aggressive offensive player, and the data shows you he's plus
twenty eight in the postseason fourth quarter, his highest plus
minus of any quarter, so he is more relied bowl
Tatum has his worst plus minus minus twenty three in
(15:06):
the fourth quarter this postseason. So literally, they're opposites, all right.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Jason Tatum or Luca Dantig.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Luca Okay, let's let's he is. I think it's fair
to say he is the world's best shot maker right now,
that's fair to say.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
All right, look at sorry, Jason Tatum or Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Jalen Brunson as a fourth quarter player. Brunson leading scorer
in the fourth quarter this postseason and not surrounded by
a lot of outs. Everybody in the world knows Brunson's
getting the ball. There's no there's no Jalen Brown, there's
no Derek White in the corner. It's a it's a
cobble together lineup with a defensive coach. And Brunson leads
(15:51):
the fourth quarter in scoring he did when he was
still playing.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
Me Tatum or Kyrie Irvy.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Now, I think Kyrie is the best closer of his generation.
Both hands. Now he can go a little sideways, but
so can Tatum. Last night, not a pointer or a
field goal in nine minutes in the fourth quarter. Also,
Kyrie has his fewest turnovers in the postseason, and this
matters because he has the ball a lot. So Kyrie
and Halliburton's usually pretty good at this wasn't last night.
(16:18):
Halliburton's a low turnover guy. Last night was a mess,
big spot for the team. But Kyrie has been very
efficient late and no turnovers.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Jason Tatum wore the Lakers new build around guy, Anthony Davis.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Jason Tatum, I would take Anthony Davis. I believe he
is such a strident defender. He is such a key
defender against Biggs that I think Ad sometimes feels worn
down in the fourth quarter. He had his lowest scoring
average three and a half points and his lowest field
goal percentage thirty six percent in the fourth quarter of
(16:51):
this postseason. So the data tells you Ady gets worn down,
and offensively he takes a step back late right.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Tatum wore fifty seven year old Lebron James.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
One possession. It's not close. I take Lebron. Lebron led
the NBA in fourth quarter baskets this year. Now you
can knock him for not always being there. He's sort
of regressed badly on defense. He's doing more podcasting than
defending these days. But for a fourth quarter bucket, Lebron's fantastic.
He is a great closer.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Right Tatum or Steph Curry?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Well, Steph Curry won he didn't play in the big playoffs,
but he won Clutch Time Player of the Year in
the NBA. Yeah, so you didn't argue with that, the
Luca and Curry, you're not even arguing Tatum or Devin Booker. Well,
I would say Tatum because Booker is no longer the
number one scoring option for the Suns, Katie is, So
I think that's I think Tatum's more of a go
(17:44):
to guy for the.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Night fourth, So then Tatum or Durant.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Durant is still in that Luca class is one of
the world's best shot makers, especially late in the clock. Katie,
I've got my issues with him sometimes. I think he's
a bit of a wanderer. But KD was the leading
scorer in the fourth quarter in NBA playoff history behind
I'm gonna read this, third leading scorer in the fourth
quarter in NBA playoff history behind MJ is one of
(18:10):
the players he's behind. Yeah, Tatum ranks fifty to ninth
in fourth quarter scoring average at NBA playoff history.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
He's twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Jason Tatum or Jamal Murray.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, I think Jamal. I think we saw it in
the postseason. Jamal's not as good as Tatum, But in
terms of a big shot maker late Murray had his
highest field goal percentage in the fourth quarter of this postseason.
So whereas Ad gets worn down, Jamal Murray with Jokic
carrying the load, often has a lot of gas left
(18:43):
in the tank and is a very good shot maker late.
I don't think that's a reach. I think that's his
specially late game shot making. Tatum or nicolea jokicch Well,
I'm gonna go with the best player in the world
and then.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
And Tatum or Jalen Brown come on.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Number. Yeah, Brent Brown averages its few as points assists,
But I also think Brown is an energy guy that
plays on the defensive end. Sometimes these guys that really
give you a defensive effort, like Lebron, by the way,
led the NBA and fourth quarter buckets, Lebron doesn't. He
doesn't use a lot of his energy on the defensive side.
I would say Lebron tends to be sort of he's
got his foot off the pedal. He's saving energy for
(19:21):
the fourth which is not a bad It's actually very
smart as you age as a player. Pick your spots.
MJ was great at that, pick your spots. Bird was
great at that. So again Jason over ad, Tatum over Booker,
Tatum over Brown. But the numbers, now, the one that
people will push back on could be Anthony Edwards because
(19:42):
what do I know one but he is. The numbers
tell you a story that he was at his best
field going three points. So I'm gonna go with the data.
Like I saw a story this morning. Everybody's like, the
economy is terrible, and then they go back and they
look at unemployment and they look at all the gd
and everybody's like, well, it's not really terrible. The data said,
(20:03):
it's not terrible. We have inflation. But I'm these data
is telling me these are the right choices. Are you
which one of all these bothers you the most.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
I'll let our next guest handle this, because I mean, Colin,
you take like seventy five guys over Jason Tatum.
Speaker 4 (20:17):
And the clutch. Let me realize here, come on, he's
a top five player in the league. He's an All
NBA guy. I can't do this.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Did you watch that nine minutes where he didn't.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Well, I watched the overtime when he won the game
for them, didn't get overtime without Jamis len Brown lucky shot.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yes, all right, be sure to catch live editions of
The Herd weekdays and noon Eastern nan e Empacific.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
Palie Foosco here with Tony Fusco. You know, as the
host of the number one rated Paully and Tony Fusco show,
we get tons and tons of fan mail every day,
piles of it. In fact, Tony, why don't you open
up one of those letters right now and read what's inside?
Speaker 9 (20:54):
Hey, listen to this. Dear Paulie and Tony, your sports
takes the dumbest and most terrible not wait one, yeah,
Paulie and Tony, you suck more than anyone. Waite dea,
Paulie and Tony, you guys are the absolute best.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
There you go, coming.
Speaker 9 (21:11):
Up with the stupidest thaet Fusco show on the iHeart
Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Let's bring in Rachel Nichols. I don't like being marginalized.
I do not like how I'm being positioned Rachel on
this show, but I will say, I said this to
start the show, is the Celtics are nothing if not
a little strange. Historically. They are a kind of almost
(21:42):
a well by their standards, a bad home playoff team.
Speaker 6 (21:47):
Eight of the last eleven losses they've had have been
at home.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Okay, I don't know if they're well coached, although the
staff is better. Tatum has moments where he disappears, and
and I don't love Al Horford taking twelve three. So
sometimes Charles Barkley's touched on this. What is that offense?
You know? I said this a year ago. I thought
(22:10):
Denver could be a dynasty. Still could be, but I
knew what they were. Well coached, run through Jokic, good defensively,
great at home, Murray a late game shot maker. Yep,
I still don't know what the Celtics are in the
fourth quarter.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
I mean, they're going to look different When Chris epsporzingis.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Sult especially defensively, he can help one hundred.
Speaker 6 (22:30):
Here's the thing about last night. There's no doubt the
Pacers choked away that game, no question, boneheaded decision after
boneheaded decision. Rick Carlo came out and said after the loss,
he said, oh, this is my fault and people kind
of were like, oh, he's just covering first player, So no, no, no,
he's right because they were up when he did not
call a time out to inbound the ball where he
(22:50):
could have advanced it. And then there is no Jalen
Brown shot. There's none of that. That happens and you
foul someone and you get two shots and you're up
by three and it doesn't matter. So there was just
my own had to put stuff all the way around. However,
just because the Pacers choked their chance away doesn't mean
I hate this narrative. They handed it to the Celtics.
There is nothing about the way the Celtics have played
(23:12):
in the biggest moments at the end of games. They
gave people, Oh that's an automatic, that's just faith. We
have criticized them over and over again, even though their
clutch numbers are generally pretty good situationally, when it's come
to when it really counts, they've been a bit discombobulated.
And that didn't happen. You talk about this Jalen Brown shot.
Jalen is a twenty two percent shooter on corner threes
(23:34):
this playoffs. That was not a gimme. Yeah, right, and
you look at Jason Tatum, who made that shot that
you guys are talking about with one minute to go
in overtime. He didn't make those shots throughout most of
that game, and yet there he was at the end.
So I just think when you look at them and
you say, what is this offense? Who is this team?
They're obviously still figuring it out, but I have to
(23:55):
give them credit for figuring out more last night after
not playing a very good regular you know, in regulation game,
that they actually came together and did what they keep
saying they are, which is an elite team. And I
just think that we're starting to see.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Chris Finch talked about this. I'm old enough. In the seventies,
it was a lot of good teams, Sixers, Blazers, Sonics
Warriors at the time, Washington Bullets, Elvin Hayes and you
know Wes Unseld and Kevin Greevy. A lot of good teams,
no great ones. I feel like the talent now because
of the international surplus, is the best it's ever been,
(24:34):
but it's all spread out and part of this, I think, Rachel,
I'll throw this at you when I travel overseas. I
know I'm a guest. I stay where I stay. Everything's planned.
I don't get distracted. I stay on. When internationals players
come over here, then I'll move around a lot. They
pick a team, they're loyal. You don't get this, Hey,
(24:56):
let's join the country club, Let's join the super team. Right,
that's kind of a domestic player thing. They feel like
this is ours. I feel like that international players. Giannis
can threaten get me dang, but he's still a buck.
And I think the good news for the league is
that creates parody. Ye his players are Luca wants to
stay in Dallas forever, and off season he's going to
(25:18):
go do his things. Aways Jokic. They have a full
life over there. But I do think the league's more talented.
But I think it's all. I think it's an all
time high for parody.
Speaker 6 (25:29):
Absolutely. I don't think there's any question. You know, we
talk about Bill Russell and all the titles he won,
and when we got to the Michael Jordan era, there
is no one who thought man Michael should have won eleven. Right,
the league was so different, the number of teams was different,
the amount of parody was different. Michael Jordan won six titles.
I do not think that anyone else following behind him
one now that we've reached this stage, yeah, can win
(25:50):
six titles. I don't think it's available. Yeah, because, as
you say, the international players have raised the level of
the game. It's kind of like integrating baseball when you
know you have a much you have an influx of
guys who are very good coming into the league. The
ground rules are going to change, and we have had this.
You know, look a look at the last MVPs. Look
(26:11):
at the finalists for MVP this year. None of them
are American, And I'm just saying we're never going to
get another American MVP. I think, you know, there's some
candidates who are going to be playing tonight who could
end up there. But I just I don't think anyone
come in six anymore. And that parody makes it more
exciting for all of us.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah, the t Wolves, MAVs, it is Dallas deserves credit twofold.
They took a big swing on Kyrie Bumpy early, but
now it works, and they took a big swing at
the trade deadline beg. And we have said for years
aggressive mostly wins in sports, even if the Russell Wilson
(26:49):
thing fails because you get such a surplus of draft
talent and football you can recover very quickly if you
find the right guy. But a year ago, I didn't
like Brunson is taking over New york Y. Kyrie's being Kyrie.
They can't defend the rim. I don't know. I think
(27:09):
Dallas matches up pretty well with Minnesota.
Speaker 6 (27:12):
Yeah, I think he's gonna be a fantastic series. I mean,
this is definitely the series of the playoffs at this point.
And when you look at what Dallas has done, I
don't think there was a comfort level with Kyrie and Luca.
He came so late in the season and there were injuries,
and I just don't think they ever got there where
they knew who was going to go win, and there's
a lot of my turn, your turn and all of
that stuff. And Kyrie did look around a little bit
(27:32):
over the summer when he was a free agent, but
the MAVs made it clear from the minute he walked
in the door, you are our guy. We traded for
you and gave up a bunch of stuff for you,
even though you have an expiring contract. That's how much
faith we have in you. Jason Kidd, who has been
Kyrie's idol for so long. Kyrie Irving went to Jason
Kidd's Hall of Fame induction, not because at that point
(27:53):
they had a special relationship, just because he was like,
this is my favorite player and I want to see
him in the Hall of Fame. I mean, Jason didn't
invite him, he just showed up, So it's worth So
the fact that this has worked for them has been
so great. And they did take a huge swing at
the trade deadline because they mortgaged a lot for these guys,
and so far they have come through. My question is
can the role players continue to play as well as
(28:15):
they did in the last series in this series, because
you needed Derek Jones Junior or PJ. Washington to tip
in at least nineteen points a night, and PJ. Washington
had a spectacular end of Game six, but he was
shooting twenty something percent before the final minutes. So he
can't do that in this game tonight. He can't do
that for the series. So we'll see if the role
(28:37):
players can play above their heads again. And then Dallas
is reel shot at it.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
So there's a story out there, and I don't think
it's that far fetched that the Lakers think Reddick has
a pat Riley vibe.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
I don't know, man, I don't buy any of it.
First of all, I mean, you're not going to get
the Godfather look in the Armadi se. JJ's a very
sharp dresser. But I'm just saying just in terms of
how prepared they are for the league. JJ, Reddick is
going to be an excellent head coach. I just believe that.
I think he will be a head coach, and I
(29:11):
think he will be very good at it. However, to
compare him to pat Riley, who not only when he
was in broadcasting, he broadcasted locally for the Lakers, so
he watched that team. He played for that team, and
then he watched that team every night, night in and
night out. He knew the guys super well. Everybody was
very familiar with each other. And then he became an
(29:32):
assistant coach. He was an assistant coach for two plus
seasons before he took over. That's the biggest knock on JJ.
I think everyone knows how good he's going to be.
It's just can you walk into being a head coach
of a team with two superstars that needs to win? Now?
If you have no experience. That was not pat Riley.
Pat Riley had experience. He was on that bench, he
was in the locker room, he was in the coaches meetings,
(29:54):
and I just don't see the one to one.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, I get that good point. We've said before that
it's because of the mobility of the league. Rachel Nichols
for our radio audience, it is hard to create a culture.
So Miami did it with d Wade, and they had
Shat come in and Lebron come in, but they maintain
their culture.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
I mean they did it with a Lonzo morning Off
of that.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right, and Haslum was part of it, even even when
he later in his career. And then d Wade leaves
and Pat's like, we gotta we gotta go find a
d Wade type player. They get Jimmy Butler, who leans
into that sort of tough, gritty when the red light's on.
I'm great. So I think the Warriors with Steve Kerr
started with Mark Jackson, but Steve Kerkr there was a
(30:38):
culture catch and react. It's a pretty high IQ offense.
Young people could struggle, but they did well poaching veterans
and getting them to work. There's not another team in
the league where I watched them play and think, oh,
that's a culture more than the Knicks. It's a Villanova thing,
it's a TIBs thing, and they sort of eat off
(31:00):
each other.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
And so I think we realize they need another skill player.
Julius Randall playoff history is not ideal, but you can't
screw up the culture.
Speaker 6 (31:11):
Well that who they're going to bring in is going
to be so important, and I do think they need
to bring someone else in, and I think they will
bring someone else in. I see that Devin Booker talk.
I don't see Phoenix trading Devin Booker. So I just
I don't think that's a realistic path to go down.
Mikhal Bridges, on the other hand, talk about culture. He
is a Villanova guy. I mean, those guys love each other,
they play for each other. It gives them that feel
(31:33):
of that college team. I don't know if you can
pry him away, but he would be a great fit there.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
So I have to give up as much.
Speaker 6 (31:41):
No, No, I like that move. You know they've talked
about DeMar derozen I think you got to look around
the Bulls roster. I think Zach Lavine would be an
interesting you know, fit there. I don't know for sure
that he's a TIBs guy, but I do know that
he has never been put in the position in Chicago
to really be his full potential, and I just think
it's been a crummy situation for him the entire time
(32:02):
he's been there. And I would be interested to see
whether he could stand up physically to a TIBs season
and how he would do there, because man, he's got height,
He's such a shot maker. He would space the floor
completely differently, take some of the pressure off Jalen Brunson,
you know, to be the forty point guy every single night.
I think there are options for the Knicks that aren't
necessarily the bring Downavan mitchellin not going to happen, bring
(32:26):
Devin Booker in. Don't see it happening. There are guys
around the league who you could go out and get
who I think would really fit in there. And it's
a credit to the front office as you say that
they built a team around Tibbs. They knew who they
had and they built a team that could be in
his careacter.
Speaker 7 (32:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
The utter thing about the Knicks, they're not devoid of talent,
Brunson's clearly an a Mitchell Robinson can protect the rim.
I think, I know he was a bounce around the
league guy, but Dante DiVincenzo has become an excellent catch
and shoot three point guy, like a really good OG's
a ballder. So it's not like in in the East,
(33:01):
you don't have to have KD. So the Michale Bridges thing,
a lot of people will push back and say it's
not enough, and my takeaway is it does add to
the culture. There's no tale like thist some size too.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
By the way, compared to those Villanova teammates, they're with
the Knicks right now.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Can Indiana make it a series? I was saying, they're long,
they're deep, they're good offensively, and they have a coach
with experience. I'm watched that last night. I'm like, okay,
I've got to stop giving the Celtics this credit. And
I'm like, when you're such an underdog, So the Pacers
weren't a big underdog in New York, but when you're
going in as a huge underdog, kind of loose, certainly deep, healthy.
(33:43):
I mean, I'll watched that last night and I thought, Okay,
Boston's gonna win the series. But oh, it could go
six right, Yeah?
Speaker 6 (33:48):
No, I think this series absolutely could go six games.
And that won't be because the Celtics fell apart. It
will be because the Pacers are a legitimate team. And yes,
they're an underdog in this series, there's no question about that.
But the way they play, as we saw last night.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
And it kind of gave away last night. They were really.
Speaker 6 (34:05):
Sneckye absolutely gave away last night. But you heard after
the game the Celtics players saying, we got to get
with that pace, we got to play faster, we got
to get with that pace. That is what the Pacers
do to you. I mean they play like every player
is physically on fire in the middle of a tornado.
It is hectic, it is chaotic, it is quick, and
(34:26):
if you can't keep up with that, you were going
to have a problem. And the Pacers are younger and
they've shown themselves to be durable and they have a
deep bench. So I think I don't think this is
a walkover, but I also think the Celtics win.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
Yeah, Porzingis didn't feel to me vital going into it,
and then I watched Siaco, morecl Horford and I'm like,
they need Porzingis I close it out? Yeah, because remember
Indiana is a very good home team. Rachel Nichols Asol
was great seeing you.
Speaker 6 (34:52):
Thank you.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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