August 19, 2024 • 35 mins
Colin points out some serious flaws the Steelers have and why it's time to start asking questions about head coach Mike Tomlin. He tells you why he was right about Caitlin Clark and wrong about Daniel Jones. Plus 4-time New York Times bestselling author Ian O'Connor joins the show to discuss his latest book about Aaron Rodgers
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Well, we've got a good one today, live in Los
Angeles on a Monday. It's the Herd wherever you may
be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making
us part of your day. Chris Collins stops by Vinji Young,
Texas football legend. Stops by Ian O'Connor, who's got that
great book on wrapping it up on Aaron Rodgers. It's
(00:50):
absolutely fascinating. Jmack also one hour from now, where Colin
was right, where Colin was wrong. So we have a
packed show today. And you know what I'm really happy about.
You are seeing Caleb Williams played the entire half. Bo
Nix is getting a lot of drives in Pittsburgh. They're
only playing Russell Wilson and Justin Fields like they got
(01:12):
to figure it out. So I feel like there's been
a little bit of a pivot back to let's play
the quarterbacks some snaps, and the last couple of preseasons
have been just like I mean, basically third string guys.
So I feel good about this. Bo Nicks woof, he
looks great. So let's start with the Steelers. Good, God,
are they awful offensively again? So listen, if Belajet can
(01:34):
get fired, if Andy Reid can get fired, and Pete
Carroll can get fired. I know he got an extension,
but we can be critical of Mike Tomlin. I mean,
Russell Wilson had five drives and one first down. Pass
protection was awful. He and justin fields and they're mobile.
Ten quarterback hits four sacks, and these guys run well,
(01:55):
they can't run the football now, they've tried that the
last several years. Last year in middle of the pack.
So in the last five years, Pittsburgh is thirtieth, thirtieth
in total yards per game, below Carolina blow teams, dysfunctional
teams like the Raiders in Washington. Only the Jets and
(02:16):
Giants are worse. And it doesn't matter if it's old
Big Ben, young, Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph doesn't matter. And
now these guys, two mobile guys. They can't move the ball.
Pass the Texan's terrible. And by the way, Russell Wilson
and Justin Field the last two years are the most
sacked quarterbacks in the league. So if you're wondering why
Justin Fields looks skittish and Russell is Captain check Down
(02:38):
this weekend, they don't want to get hit. Would you
want to get hit if the last couple of years
you're the most sacked guy in the league. I wouldn't
want to get hit either. And so when you watch
this kind of a neptitude on one side of the ball,
it's coaching. I'll tell you why. Because organizations the last
ten years, like Washington, the ownership was bad. They couldn't
(03:00):
have to develop. That's just a broken franchise. The Raiders
have felt like a broken franchise. I would say the
Jets and the Giants right now. Jets have some players,
let's not you know, let's not be dishonest about that.
They got some dudes, but they kind of feel like
a broken franchise. Pittsburgh doesn't. Pittsburgh drafts well, really well,
(03:20):
they develop well. They have excellent ownership. They're not the
biggest spenders, but they're not cheap. And yet defensively they're
always elite. Yet they're completely utterly inept on one side
of the ball. That's on the head coach. He's run
through coordinators, he's run through quarterbacks. That's on Mike Tomlin.
(03:45):
They are awful. When a business is not broken, does
many things fundamentally well, and you have a department of
the business, you know, maybe the sales part of your
business is lousy, but the marketing's good, the engineering good. Well,
then you have to go as the CEO. You got
to go to the sales manager and replace the sales
(04:05):
manager because everything else is humming at the company like Pittsburgh,
does everything well. They draft, they develop, free agency, they're smart,
it's stable. They are just in nept offensively, young old
Mason Rudolph, doesn't matter who the quarterback is. Justin Fields
and Russell Wilson are running for their lives. So this
(04:27):
is Mike Tomlin's culture, it's his locker room, it's his
offensive coordinator, it's his responsibility. And Tomlin acknowledged it's not good.
On that side of the ball.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Is somewhat of an incomplete study because you just don't
get a chance to see them operate, or us operate,
or us established rhythm and personality when you're not winning
possession downs, and we weren't, you know, the first three
or so a series of the game. It was, you know,
three and out, And that's not going to get an
opportunity to establish rhythm or or or played a way
(05:04):
that you would like as an individual or collective. We
didn't do a good enough job of protecting the quarterback.
We got to do a better job in past protection
than we did, not only in possession downs, but just
in general. And I was really upfront with the group
about it. In that regard. That can't be a problem
for us. We got to be better than we were
tonight in that area.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
They haven't been good for like seven years in that
area and they can't produce a rhythm now last year,
the year before, the year before again. I think Tom
will be a great broadcaster. I don't think he's a
bad coach, But we're running Andy Reid at of Philly
and Pete Carroll out of the NFL and Belichick out
of New England. This is the coach's responsibility. How many
(05:44):
OC's we've had in the last seven years. I mean
the Draft Picks. This is an organization like Green Bay
that drafts and develops really really well. It's on Mike Okay,
So I was later today next hour. We have Ian O'Connor,
a friend and a great New York Times bestselling author,
the Aaron Rodgers book. It's all over everywhere. I saw
(06:04):
Fox News talking about it. You got the other networks
talking about it, other shows on this network. It's getting
tons of play on podcasting, and it deserves it. Really
interesting book, but you know, and it's about Aaron Rodgers,
and it's fascinating his family and the complexities and how
far treated him poorly. And it's not all bang on Aaron.
It's a deep, complex look into a complex guy. But
(06:27):
you know, it's funny. I was thinking about this. So
the last time Aaron Rodgers made a Pro Bowl was
twenty twenty one. So since that time, CJ. Stroud is
coming to the league. He's a top ten quarterback now.
In twenty twenty, Burrow, Herbert Tua, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts
(06:48):
all got drafted. And about that time, just before Aaron's
last Pro Bowl. They've all exploded. They're all much better today.
So if you look at the AFC, I mean the
NFL quarterback play has exploded last five six years. But
even since Aaron Rodgers won his last Pro Bowl in
twenty twenty one, and I think by twenty twenty one
(07:11):
it had been established Aaron was making his last Pro Bowl,
Mahomes was better, Josh Allen was bigger, stronger. Lamar did
things Aaron couldn't so physically, by the time he made
his last Pro Bowl, he wasn't as dynamic as Lamar,
as Josh as Mahomes top of the class. And now
Burrow's better, and two is better, and Hurts is better,
and Herbert has Harbaugh and c. J. Stroud and Trevor
(07:33):
Lawrence has his best roster, and a lot of the
young quarterbacks I like, or quarterbacks I like, have offensive
head coaches or great coordinators c J. Stroud, Matt Stafford Mahomes,
like Trevor Lawrence, Deshaun Watson, Tua Brock Purty, Joe Burrow,
justin Herbert. Finally, they have offensive coaches or great coordinators
(07:58):
we love Jared Goff, has Ben Johnson. You know a CJ.
Stroud's offensive coordinator going to be a head coach next year.
Aaron's got Matt Hackett and Robert Salah and has taken
four snaps in five hundred plus days. So this idea
I was. I got into this discussion this weekend, this
idea that thank God, the Savior is back. Well, Sauce
(08:22):
Gardner is a better corner than Aaron is a quarterback,
and Quinn Williams is a better defensive tackle than Aaron
is a quarterback. And my guess is you will find
out this year that Garrett Wilson's a better receiver than
Aaron is a quarterback, and Breeze Hall is a better
running back. He's top three in the league. I think,
when healthy, that Aaron is a quarterback, the defense is
(08:42):
better than the offense. Are we sure Aaron Rodgers is
the savior? And instead we will look at this team
by Thanksgiving and going I'd like to be a little
younger and more dynamic at quarterback. This idea that Aaron's
gonna save it. He's not their best player. Sauce Gardner,
Quinn Williams, Garrett Wilson, these are top of the class guys.
(09:04):
I think Breece Hall would healthy. There's an argument he's
a top two back in the league. That kid is explosive.
I do think the offensive line will get better this year.
Cross your fingers on Tyron Smith's health and Elijah Vera
Tucker's health and the rookie from Penn State. But you
start looking around. I've watched old quarterbacks fall off a cliff.
(09:25):
Peyton Manning was in Super Bowls then he was thirty nine,
had nine touchdowns and seventeen picks, fell off a cliff.
I watched Brett Fahr fall off a cliff eleven touchdowns,
nineteen picks the year after he was sensational in Minnesota.
Aaron's the oldest player in the league coming off a
major surgery. I mean again, his last season in Green Bay,
(09:47):
he had a lower passer rating with a good old
line with a good running game. He had a lower
passer rating with a good coach than Daniel Jones. I
think New Yorkers are going, oh, this is the savior.
Saviors are usually players in their prime, like Aaron Judge
or show Hey o'tani. Like saviors are Mahomes or Josh Allen.
(10:13):
They're players in their prime, often inexpensive early in their prime.
So you know, I kind of look at this. And
that's not to mention all the side stuff with Aaron,
which this book points out. I mean, Eric Mangini is
one of the nicer guys I've ever worked with, and
he tends to be pro player and pro franchise. But
(10:35):
I mean even he has he had this blunt kind
of opinion last week on Aaron's character, which is you
cannot deny it once you read this book.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
He doesn't care. He doesn't care. He doesn't care about
the other ten guys. He cares about himself. And with
Tom Brady, Tom was coachable. Tom wanted to be coached,
and even though Tom was the greatest at that position,
he was opened ideas that could make him better.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
But for Aaron, he.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Is just gonna do whatever he wants to do, whatever's
best for him. You are the ten guys. If it's
not good for you, it's not good for the coaching staff,
it's not good for anybody else. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
He's not wrong. Ian O'Connor one hour from now, Colin Wright,
Colin wrong as well. I don't wanna go hard on
the Jets, but I will say this, he is not
the best player on the team, and I think it
will be established very early. He's not a top four
player on the team. Sauce quinnin Garrett Breese our dynamic
(11:40):
jump off a TV screen. He's taking four snaps in
five hundred days and he's forty. And I watch Manning
in FARV fall off a cut lift. Don't. He's not
Lebron and he's not Brady. He is not that obsessive
about his health. He did not get that DNA as
big as Tom. He's not as obsessed as Tom. He's
(12:03):
not as big as Lebron. Lebron's a freak of nature.
Aaron's just really talented. He's not a freak of nature.
Just saying you think he's the savior, I think you
could look up. I think you could look up and
look around at a C. J. Stroud and a Burrow
and a Trevor Lawrence and Herbert with Harbaugh and Josh
Allen Lamar and Deshaun's got Stefanski and go I wish
(12:25):
we were a little younger at quarterback and moved a
little better. I don't think that's crazy, Jay Mack. I
know that starts your week with a bit of a thud,
A negative. Come on, right, we're buddies. It's Monday. It's
a great week ahead, and you have a really great
week coming up. I have a good week coming up.
(12:46):
You don't need to take a dump on the Jets
to start the show. Where's a Caleb Williams. I expect
you would come out here basically saying he's the savior
of the NFL and he's gonna well, we will say
he is interesting. Man. He played the first half. Couldn't
take my eyes off him. It's almost like rock Perty
when I watch him in playoff games, just dominating him. Like, oh,
how was Brock this weekend? Without starters?
Speaker 5 (13:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I didn't watch pre season eleven yards passing? Not worth?
How many eleven? That's funny when you put him on
a roster equivalent to Carolina, what was he eleven yards past?
Here we go, we see we combative today. You're choosing violince.
Huh okay, So did you see the Caitlin Clark over
the weekend? Yeah? I saw that. Wow, Like that is something. Man,
we are watching this. This is magic. And I had
(13:31):
a thought about not just Caitlin Clark and women's basketball,
but it may be a nightmare for Major League Baseball,
and I'll tell you that coming up.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
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Speaker 1 (13:51):
All right, we call it Colin right, Colin wrong on
a Monday, plenty of both. Here we go where Colin
was right. Caitlin Clark breaks the WNBA rookie record. Also,
so Angel ree is on fire setting records. They both
should have been on the Olympic team. I kept saying,
Caitlin just had to overcome the silly early WNBA schedule.
She is a rising star. Her an Angel Reese on
(14:12):
the WNBA All Star team beat the Olympians. She's I'm
telling you, she is a playmaker. She her passing is
so incredibly undervalued. She is really the rare big score
that's unselfish. She's got the lebron quality like she loves
to pass. And she's already broken, already broken the WNBA
(14:33):
rookie record. And by the way, Indiana now seventh in
the WNBA standings. Here come the fever. Where Colin was raw.
I'd like to apologize for supporting Daniel Jones last week.
I will never do it again. It's like justin Fields,
he just makes too many mistakes. Has just got a
forty five passer rating, no touchdowns in the preseason. He
(14:53):
just makes to This is a bad throw. You got
to go along on that. You can't let Stingley pick
that ball off. That's a rookie mistake. You've been in
this league too long. And I mean, he's a nice kid.
I feel bad for him, but you know, it's Zach Wilson,
it's justin Fields, it's Daniel Jones. You can't make these mistakes.
You're facing backups in many of these instances, vanilla schemes.
(15:13):
You can't make these mistakes. Where Colin was right, Bonnix
looks like a perfect fit. Six scoring drives in seven
drives in the preseason, totally under control, accurate, good in
the muddy pocket. I said before the draft, this kid fips,
and I'll say it again. Do not be shocked if
(15:35):
he is not the best, at least in year one,
the best of the rookie quarterbacks. Denver's offensive skill is undervalued.
Tight end, receiver and running back. I think they're better
than average. He has been absolutely sensational. I said before
the draft, this is the guy that'll work with Sean Payton,
and you're seeing it live. Where Colin was raw, Drake
(15:57):
May I thought, look better than I thought he would
all year. In the last preseason game, he had his
footwork down through with confidence, was accurate. I still don't
love his accuracy, but I thought I thought from first
go around to second like it was noticeably more under
control through a beautiful deep vault. Wasn't cod but you
(16:18):
know he does. When you watch these highlights, he looks
like the comp My NFL executive sources said, they said,
you're gonna see some Justin Herbert, and I'm telling you
I saw in that game glimpses of Justin Herbert where
Colin was right well, I said Caleb Williams last week
would be the most exciting can't turn the TV off
(16:40):
quarterback in the league this year. Not saying the best,
but the most exciting. I'm watching this game against Cincinnati,
you can't shut the TV off. He's fascinating. He's got
a little Lamar, got a little Mahomes, little Josh Allen, spinning, moving, running,
throwing off bounce. Now the criticism is he can be
too much of an ad libber. I'm not saying that's wrong,
(17:01):
but so can Josh Allen. And it's a lot of
fun to watch. This kid is magic and he will
be that one o'clock window on Fox watch the games
because he's going to be in that one o'clock window
a lot. He is sensational. Where Colin was right, well,
the Atlanta Falcons got their edge rusher, edge rusher that
they were so harshly criticized for during the draft, and
(17:23):
the reason they drafted Pennix is, you know what you
can't get at the trading deadline. You know what you
can't get in a trade before a season starts, a young,
talented franchise quarterback. Nobody's given c J. Stroud away, and
they're not given Michael Pennox away. I did not criticize Atlanta.
I said, listen, if you can get a Michael Pennox
at that point in the draft, you take him. You
(17:44):
figure out safety later, you figure out edge rusher later.
And they got Matthew Judon from the Patriots, a massive
upgrade for Atlanta been searching for an edge rusher for
several years. Where Colin was raw, the United States men's
national team. My bad landed, big swing and landed Mauricio Focatino.
(18:08):
And this is a guy that has coached Harry Kane, Messi,
Neymar this is a real coach. And I kept saying
they're going to get rejected, They're going to get the
fit the hand from all the top guys. But he
has coached Chelsea, he has been this is being viewed
(18:31):
as a huge swing, a huge get and universally accepted.
And I didn't trust the United States Soccer Federation, the women, Yeah,
the men didn't trust him. Tip of the cap where
Colin was right, well, well, well what was brought pretty
playing without starters this weekend with like a backup for
(18:52):
Carolina two for six for eleven yards, with no Christian McCaffrey,
no trimp, no depot, three drives, no scores. That's funny.
And have Hall of famers to carry him running for
Oh boy, not a lot of zip there isn't it funny?
I've said before, put him in Carolina, put him with
(19:13):
the Giants, O line. It's not that I don't like him,
but this idea that he is this wildly creative, strong armed,
generational talent. He basically got a Mercedes, don't run it
into a tree, you know, don't hit the garage door
when it's opening. When he played with backups, how do
you look? Where Colin was right? And stub Hub announced
(19:40):
ticket sales college football up forty two year to year,
and it's because of the conference realignment games. That's what
StubHub announced. I pushed back on the idea that transfer portal,
the nil and conference realignment was going to kill the sport.
Folks I grew up in the West Coast. I was
over Cal against Oregon State, Give me Oregon against Ohio State,
(20:02):
USC against Michigan, Texas against LSU or Florida. Stub have
announcing conference realignment is not only not puncturing college football,
they're almost up fifty percent year to year in sales.
People want new, they want fresh, they want funds, and
(20:24):
that's what conference realignment is. And the transfer portal, by
the way, new star quarterbacks Riley Leonard at notre name,
I want to see it. I'm excited for where Colin
was right, where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon eastern non am Pacific.
Speaker 6 (20:42):
Hey, it's Ben host of The Fifth Hour with Ben
Mallard would mean a lot to have you join us
on our weekly auditory journey. You're ask what in God's
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Speaker 1 (21:03):
Amazing facts about human nature and more.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
Listen to The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Well. He's written
six books, four New York Times bestseller. This one's fascinating
on Aaron Rodgers. Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of
Aaron Rodgers. It comes out officially tomorrow. My friend Ian
O'Connor one of the best columnists in this country for
a long time, in a world class reporter. So you know,
you and I through the years have talked about Aaron,
(21:31):
and you you chose Aaron. There was some proximity. He's
with the Jets. He's so very few of our athletes
have mystery. You know, we see him on social media.
We know everything about everybody. We don't know everything about
Aaron Rodgers. So let's start with the family dynamic. It's
I don't I don't know of another star athlete that
(21:53):
it's to this point. Is he talking with his family?
Speaker 7 (21:55):
Now?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Ian, there might have been some communication electronically Colin recently.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
Obviously, I had to see him in the book.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
I think you read it where he had a moment
at Lake Tahoe last summer with his father Ed, and
Ed planted himself in the crowd at that celebrity golf
tournament that Aaron plays in every summer, and Aaron saw
him on the ninth hole on Saturday and decided to
go over there and give him a hug. He was thinking,
should ignore him, should I act like I'm on the phone.
But for some reason that day he went over and
(22:26):
gave his dad a hug. Now Ed when he saw Aaron.
He turned around and there he was, standing fifteen feet away.
He couldn't believe it. He froze because he forgot what
it felt like to have his son in his presence,
and to have a son looking at him. It had
been nine years almost So Aaron hugged him. They said,
I love you. It was emotional.
Speaker 7 (22:43):
Ed was crying.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Aaron had to go back and finish his golf round,
and there wasn't really any follow up, but both said
on the record in my book that they wanted a relationship,
and that's really the first time Aaron has ever said
since the estrangement started in twenty fourteen that he wanted
a relationship with one of his family members.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
So hopefully that's the start of something better.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
One of my takeaways where I found I had great
sympathy for Aaron. It really bothered me. He was almost
I mean, the Brett farr relationship almost felt at times
like hazing. It was really ugly, and it made me
think less of far of and more of Aaron Rodgers
as you did your digging. Jeff Peerlman had written about
some of this stuff. But were you surprised? I found
(23:30):
myself rooting for Aaron on that chapter like it made
it I was. I got emotional about it. I'm thinking, God,
who would treat a young employee like that? Were you
surprised by it?
Speaker 7 (23:42):
No? Not really.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Brett farrv never had any intention of teaching Aaron anything,
and I can see it a little bit from Brett's perspective,
he was a living legend. He was the one who
made the green Bay Packers the green Bay Packers again
after some down years following the glory years of Lombardian Star.
And so he had done so much for that franchise
and all of a sudden, they hire his replacement, and
(24:04):
he's expected to train that replacement to expedite his departure.
And so I could see it from his perspective, but
he treated him really poorly those first couple of years.
Speaker 7 (24:15):
The third year, I think it's that relationship started to
get better.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
It's funny because Colin, I think now their relationship is
pretty good because Aaron got kicked out almost in the
way that Brett got kicked out. Now, I understand that
Aaron wanted the trade, but they wanted to move on
to Jordan Love, just like the Packers back in the
day wanted to move on to Aaron. So they both
experienced this iconic franchise that they did so much for
(24:40):
as first ballot Hall of Famers moving them out. And
I think they have that shared experience that they can
talk about together.
Speaker 7 (24:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It's you know, I've had a couple of knocks. I'll
address both on Aaron's play. One of them is he's
barely above five hundred as a quarterback in the playoffs
and the only functional operation for most of his time Minnesota,
Kirk Cousins was five hundred against him that he benefited
greatly from a very smart front office, good offensive lines,
(25:10):
offensive coaches. Would you push back on the you know,
he's barely above five hundred Mahomes, isn't Brady's not in
the playoffs? What's the pushback on that?
Speaker 5 (25:20):
The pushback is the guy he's always compared against his
Tom Brady, obviously and will be forever.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Brady has the seven rings.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
He made it look easy, but he had Belichick arguably
the greatest coach ever, and he had the best offensive
coordinator in league, and Josh McDaniels and Aaron never had
those things. So I'm not saying he would have won
six rings in New England like Brady did, but he
would have more than one, that's for sure.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
And also if you look at.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Him, listen, they went it in twenty ten, they should
have two peeded in twenty eleven.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
They were fifteen and one that year, dominating the league,
and then.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Unfortunately they had a tragedy of the week leading into
that Giant's playoff loss, Joe Philbin tragically loses his son.
That really had a profound impact on that team. But
even taking it back to a football context, in twenty
thirteen through sixteen, they lose every year. So from the
outside looking in, Aaron's a loser, loser, loser, loser in
(26:10):
those four seasons. But he made magical plays in sudden
death games in each of those four seasons, and that.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
Gets totally forgotten. So that's my pushback.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
I could go over the plays he made, he probably
remember all of them, but one in particular, the drive
at the end in twenty fifteen against Arizona. He threw
two hail mary's to tie that game in the final seconds.
He basically won one hundred yards because it was fourth
and twenty. I think on the first one he threw
it out of the end zone sixty yard. It was
a line drive hail mary. The Jeff Janis so I
(26:42):
think had two catches that year, and then he throws
hail mary in the final seconds to score the final
the tying touchdown. Janis making that catch as well. McCarthy
should have gone for two points there because the previous
year they lose in Seattle left Aaron made that great
drive at the end to tie it following the collapse.
Speaker 7 (27:00):
But McCarthy didn't go for two.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
They lose the coin toss again and two straight playoffs
end with Aaron never touching the ball in overtime. Of course,
in sixteen, he makes one of the great postseason passes
ever to beat Dallas. Then they lose to just a
better Atlanta team in the NFC Championship game. So I'm
not saying that your number, your numbers work. I mean,
they are what they are. He's eleven and ten in
(27:22):
the postseason, and he can't run away from that. But
I'm just adding a little context to those numbers.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
You know, he does feel like and listen, he's not
the only guy that pushed back on the vaccine. Okay,
he's not all right there, and I do think there
were government overreaches. I live in California. They wouldn't let
people go to the beach. I'm not going to beat
him up too bad on that. I may disagree with him.
I took a vaccine, but I don't think it's fair
to beat him up because he's not You're not one
on one on that but there is the Darkness retreat,
(27:49):
the Iahwasca there there. He feels quirkier. Now I've kind
of pointed to he's not married, he's got no kids.
He kind of lives in his own orbit. If I
started doing Darkness retreats, my wife would be like, all right,
get a divorce attorney. So I kind of blame that.
He's kind of a when you get rich and you
get old and you don't have to sacrifice much for others,
(28:09):
it does change you. I feel like he's gotten more
conspiratorial and a little AWE doesn't feel he feels like
a the quarterback slash podcaster in the last three years.
Is that fair? Can you explain that? Do you see that?
Speaker 7 (28:25):
I see it? Yeah. But the thing is with the
conspiracy theories.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
He started with that in high school, studying the jfk
assassination and coming to believe, like many Americans, that it
was a conspiracy involving a government agency. And so he's
actually had that as part of his life for a
long time. He's gotten more public about it, and some
of his conspiracy theories are a little wackier and more vile.
I guess then, But what happened there was he studied
(28:52):
Operation Northwoods, which actually happened in the nineteen sixties. It's
one of the most vile plots ever hatched by a
government official in this country, where the Joint Chiefs of
Staff had a plan to have the US military attack
American military and civilian targets. Yeah, blame it on Castro
as justification to start a war with Cuba. Thankfully, President
Kennedy nixed it. But Aaron studied that and was fascinated
(29:15):
by it, and he now thinks there's an Operation Northwoods
behind everything, and of course there isn't. So Yeah, that
is that's part of his life, but it's been Conspiracies
have been a part of his life for a long time.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
He's just been.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
More public about it since COVID really changed his life
in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, it's fascinating. This book is so interesting. Out of
the darkness, the mystery of Aaron Rodgers. I won't give
away the first chapter, but the story of his great
grandfather is. It's completely fascinating your work on this. He
went a mile deep, and it's just it's sensational. New
York's interesting. You know, people view him as sort of
(29:55):
the savior in fact, I'm gonna get to this in
a second. Let me go back to green Bay. It
ended out of the darkness retreat. He came out of it,
and they just moved on. Now, they didn't draft Jordan
Love to sit. They were gonna move to Jordan Love anyway.
But there is this sense that green Bay just had
enough and bailed. Is that overstated the exit when the
(30:19):
Packers jettison Aaron, was it coming anyway or did they
truly with your reporting? Did they truly just were they
exhausted with Aaron the guy?
Speaker 5 (30:29):
Now they were exhausted, and with Aaron and green Bay,
you had the downside of the drama, but you always
had the upside of making the playoffs. Basically every year
when he was healthy, and he's a first ballot Hall
of Famer. But that last year in green Bay they
didn't make the playoffs. They had an opportunity that last game.
He did not play well, He was injured a lot
of the year. He seemed to be declining a little bit,
(30:51):
and they said, we're out of here. They wanted him
out of green Bay, and he did see a great
opportunity with the Jets because of what that could mean
to his legacy and always being compared to Brady. Well,
Brady's at seven rings and I'm at one. I'm never
closing that gap. But if I win one in New
York for a franchise that hasn't been to the Super
Bowl since January sixty nine, that's going to feel like
(31:12):
three rings. So it worked for him, but clearly Green
Bay wanted him out, just like Green Bay wanted Brett
Farbaut after he lost the NFC Championship Game to the Giants,
and they wanted to move to Aaron. Very similar situations.
Both parties needed a divorce and Aaron had to change
the dynamic of his career. It was one postseason bitter
(31:33):
moment after another for what for twelve years. He needed
a change and he saw opportunity in the Jets, and
that opportunity is still there.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Let's be fair here. Aaron treated Jordan Love from your reporting,
better than far have treated him. That's clear right.
Speaker 7 (31:50):
By far It's not even close.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, and good relationship with him. Do you believe there
is still resentment about Green Bay? Aaron tends to be
I think it's fair. He can ghost, he can be
a little bit of a grudge holder for the record.
I think Belichick is as a coach, and you've done
a book on him. Do you think the Green Bay
situation today? If you asked him privately, does Aaron still
(32:12):
resent the Packers?
Speaker 7 (32:15):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (32:16):
Yeah, I think just the greats. They feel slighted and
they never forget it. Yeah, And Aaron holds a grudge
like he holds the football with a very firm grip.
Speaker 7 (32:26):
He never lets go.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
That's how he got into the Jimmy Kimmel mess because
Kimmel had mocked him and he was waiting for an
opportunity to get him back, and he picked the wrong
moment to do it, and he got himself in a
lot of trouble. And so there's no question if you
asked Aaron which team he'd like to face in the
Super Bowl as a member of the New York Jets.
Speaker 7 (32:41):
It's the Green Bay Packers.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
And that's what fuels these guys and real or imagine slights,
And let's face it, Yeah, he wanted the trade. He
got the trade, but it was more like a firing
to me. I think the Packers wanted to fire him,
and I think he knows that, and I think I'll
never forget this is a guy who out of high
school didn't have a single scholarship offer. He gets humiliated
(33:05):
at the draft. He got thirteen ten on his SATs.
He's a great quarterback, and he's got to go to
the local community college. Those things add up to that
gigantic chip on his shoulder that still has not gone away.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well, we've seen a couple of moments, and I could
blame Robert Sola for this as well, where Aaron you
know a lot of passive aggressive stuff in Green Bay
with the front office. He'd go on a local radio
station and or talk to media and you know, very
intentional stuff. He also made a very intentional comment about
you know, Slad didn't give him a tip if he
was playing, and I thought, oh boy, here we people
(33:38):
are what they are. You know, you can hire somebody
with a reputation. After about six months to a year,
that employee becomes what they are. Do you since that
if this thing goes sideways, Aaron's not going to take
the hit like that. My take is Aaron gunpoint a
finger at somebody if this thing goes sideways. Do you
feel and you're close now because you're in the city
(34:00):
as a columnist, do you feel slight. It's at the
very beginning of potential issues if it goes sideways. An
ugly blowout lost with the Niners in Week one.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Not that early, but I do think if the Jets
are two and five, this could really go south and
get ugly in a hurry, because he's lost some of
that goodwill from Jets fans.
Speaker 7 (34:24):
They loved him last year.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
New York City fell in love with Aaron like I've
never seen the city fall in love with a superstar
coming in from another market.
Speaker 7 (34:31):
It was unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
But that all went away with the injury, the offseason controversies.
The Jets, of course, being the Jets, they got all
the downside of employing Aaron Rodgers and none of the upside.
So if they're having a losing season, first of all,
everyone's getting fired. Sala's getting fired, Hacket's getting fired, Joe
Douglas is getting fired, and Aaron might get fired. Woody
(34:52):
Johnson loves having a star quarterback. If Aaron plays a
decent level of football and they have a losing season,
it's possible what he will bring him back with the
new coach, But chances are if they don't make the playoffs,
Rogers is out of the building with everyone else in
that Jet organization.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Out of the darkness. The mystery of Aaron Rodgers. Let's
show the cover if we can again, six books for
New York Times Bestseller. He goes a mile deep on
this stuff. Sometimes you'll be sympathetic to Aaron. Sometimes he'll
frustrate you. And again he's one of the few American
athletes where there's mystery. We know everything, we know what
people have for lunch. Now with Aaron, there's a lot
(35:33):
of layers to the onion appeal back and you do
a great JOBB and his always thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
You're the best column. Thanks very much, all right,
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Well, we've got a good one today, live in Los
Angeles on a Monday. It's the Herd wherever you may
be and however you may be listening. Thanks for making
us part of your day. Chris Collins stops by Vinji Young,
Texas football legend. Stops by Ian O'Connor, who's got that
great book on wrapping it up on Aaron Rodgers. It's
(00:50):
absolutely fascinating. Jmack also one hour from now, where Colin
was right, where Colin was wrong. So we have a
packed show today. And you know what I'm really happy about.
You are seeing Caleb Williams played the entire half. Bo
Nix is getting a lot of drives in Pittsburgh. They're
only playing Russell Wilson and Justin Fields like they got
(01:12):
to figure it out. So I feel like there's been
a little bit of a pivot back to let's play
the quarterbacks some snaps, and the last couple of preseasons
have been just like I mean, basically third string guys.
So I feel good about this. Bo Nicks woof, he
looks great. So let's start with the Steelers. Good, God,
are they awful offensively again? So listen, if Belajet can
(01:34):
get fired, if Andy Reid can get fired, and Pete
Carroll can get fired. I know he got an extension,
but we can be critical of Mike Tomlin. I mean,
Russell Wilson had five drives and one first down. Pass
protection was awful. He and justin fields and they're mobile.
Ten quarterback hits four sacks, and these guys run well,
(01:55):
they can't run the football now, they've tried that the
last several years. Last year in middle of the pack.
So in the last five years, Pittsburgh is thirtieth, thirtieth
in total yards per game, below Carolina blow teams, dysfunctional
teams like the Raiders in Washington. Only the Jets and
(02:16):
Giants are worse. And it doesn't matter if it's old
Big Ben, young, Kenny Pickett, Mason Rudolph doesn't matter. And
now these guys, two mobile guys. They can't move the ball.
Pass the Texan's terrible. And by the way, Russell Wilson
and Justin Field the last two years are the most
sacked quarterbacks in the league. So if you're wondering why
Justin Fields looks skittish and Russell is Captain check Down
(02:38):
this weekend, they don't want to get hit. Would you
want to get hit if the last couple of years
you're the most sacked guy in the league. I wouldn't
want to get hit either. And so when you watch
this kind of a neptitude on one side of the ball,
it's coaching. I'll tell you why. Because organizations the last
ten years, like Washington, the ownership was bad. They couldn't
(03:00):
have to develop. That's just a broken franchise. The Raiders
have felt like a broken franchise. I would say the
Jets and the Giants right now. Jets have some players,
let's not you know, let's not be dishonest about that.
They got some dudes, but they kind of feel like
a broken franchise. Pittsburgh doesn't. Pittsburgh drafts well, really well,
(03:20):
they develop well. They have excellent ownership. They're not the
biggest spenders, but they're not cheap. And yet defensively they're
always elite. Yet they're completely utterly inept on one side
of the ball. That's on the head coach. He's run
through coordinators, he's run through quarterbacks. That's on Mike Tomlin.
(03:45):
They are awful. When a business is not broken, does
many things fundamentally well, and you have a department of
the business, you know, maybe the sales part of your
business is lousy, but the marketing's good, the engineering good. Well,
then you have to go as the CEO. You got
to go to the sales manager and replace the sales
(04:05):
manager because everything else is humming at the company like Pittsburgh,
does everything well. They draft, they develop, free agency, they're smart,
it's stable. They are just in nept offensively, young old
Mason Rudolph, doesn't matter who the quarterback is. Justin Fields
and Russell Wilson are running for their lives. So this
(04:27):
is Mike Tomlin's culture, it's his locker room, it's his
offensive coordinator, it's his responsibility. And Tomlin acknowledged it's not good.
On that side of the ball.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
Is somewhat of an incomplete study because you just don't
get a chance to see them operate, or us operate,
or us established rhythm and personality when you're not winning
possession downs, and we weren't, you know, the first three
or so a series of the game. It was, you know,
three and out, And that's not going to get an
opportunity to establish rhythm or or or played a way
(05:04):
that you would like as an individual or collective. We
didn't do a good enough job of protecting the quarterback.
We got to do a better job in past protection
than we did, not only in possession downs, but just
in general. And I was really upfront with the group
about it. In that regard. That can't be a problem
for us. We got to be better than we were
tonight in that area.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
They haven't been good for like seven years in that
area and they can't produce a rhythm now last year,
the year before, the year before again. I think Tom
will be a great broadcaster. I don't think he's a
bad coach, But we're running Andy Reid at of Philly
and Pete Carroll out of the NFL and Belichick out
of New England. This is the coach's responsibility. How many
(05:44):
OC's we've had in the last seven years. I mean
the Draft Picks. This is an organization like Green Bay
that drafts and develops really really well. It's on Mike Okay,
So I was later today next hour. We have Ian O'Connor,
a friend and a great New York Times bestselling author,
the Aaron Rodgers book. It's all over everywhere. I saw
(06:04):
Fox News talking about it. You got the other networks
talking about it, other shows on this network. It's getting
tons of play on podcasting, and it deserves it. Really
interesting book, but you know, and it's about Aaron Rodgers,
and it's fascinating his family and the complexities and how
far treated him poorly. And it's not all bang on Aaron.
It's a deep, complex look into a complex guy. But
(06:27):
you know, it's funny. I was thinking about this. So
the last time Aaron Rodgers made a Pro Bowl was
twenty twenty one. So since that time, CJ. Stroud is
coming to the league. He's a top ten quarterback now.
In twenty twenty, Burrow, Herbert Tua, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts
(06:48):
all got drafted. And about that time, just before Aaron's
last Pro Bowl. They've all exploded. They're all much better today.
So if you look at the AFC, I mean the
NFL quarterback play has exploded last five six years. But
even since Aaron Rodgers won his last Pro Bowl in
twenty twenty one, and I think by twenty twenty one
(07:11):
it had been established Aaron was making his last Pro Bowl,
Mahomes was better, Josh Allen was bigger, stronger. Lamar did
things Aaron couldn't so physically, by the time he made
his last Pro Bowl, he wasn't as dynamic as Lamar,
as Josh as Mahomes top of the class. And now
Burrow's better, and two is better, and Hurts is better,
and Herbert has Harbaugh and c. J. Stroud and Trevor
(07:33):
Lawrence has his best roster, and a lot of the
young quarterbacks I like, or quarterbacks I like, have offensive
head coaches or great coordinators c J. Stroud, Matt Stafford Mahomes,
like Trevor Lawrence, Deshaun Watson, Tua Brock Purty, Joe Burrow,
justin Herbert. Finally, they have offensive coaches or great coordinators
(07:58):
we love Jared Goff, has Ben Johnson. You know a CJ.
Stroud's offensive coordinator going to be a head coach next year.
Aaron's got Matt Hackett and Robert Salah and has taken
four snaps in five hundred plus days. So this idea
I was. I got into this discussion this weekend, this
idea that thank God, the Savior is back. Well, Sauce
(08:22):
Gardner is a better corner than Aaron is a quarterback,
and Quinn Williams is a better defensive tackle than Aaron
is a quarterback. And my guess is you will find
out this year that Garrett Wilson's a better receiver than
Aaron is a quarterback, and Breeze Hall is a better
running back. He's top three in the league. I think,
when healthy, that Aaron is a quarterback, the defense is
(08:42):
better than the offense. Are we sure Aaron Rodgers is
the savior? And instead we will look at this team
by Thanksgiving and going I'd like to be a little
younger and more dynamic at quarterback. This idea that Aaron's
gonna save it. He's not their best player. Sauce Gardner,
Quinn Williams, Garrett Wilson, these are top of the class guys.
(09:04):
I think Breece Hall would healthy. There's an argument he's
a top two back in the league. That kid is explosive.
I do think the offensive line will get better this year.
Cross your fingers on Tyron Smith's health and Elijah Vera
Tucker's health and the rookie from Penn State. But you
start looking around. I've watched old quarterbacks fall off a cliff.
(09:25):
Peyton Manning was in Super Bowls then he was thirty nine,
had nine touchdowns and seventeen picks, fell off a cliff.
I watched Brett Fahr fall off a cliff eleven touchdowns,
nineteen picks the year after he was sensational in Minnesota.
Aaron's the oldest player in the league coming off a
major surgery. I mean again, his last season in Green Bay,
(09:47):
he had a lower passer rating with a good old
line with a good running game. He had a lower
passer rating with a good coach than Daniel Jones. I
think New Yorkers are going, oh, this is the savior.
Saviors are usually players in their prime, like Aaron Judge
or show Hey o'tani. Like saviors are Mahomes or Josh Allen.
(10:13):
They're players in their prime, often inexpensive early in their prime.
So you know, I kind of look at this. And
that's not to mention all the side stuff with Aaron,
which this book points out. I mean, Eric Mangini is
one of the nicer guys I've ever worked with, and
he tends to be pro player and pro franchise. But
(10:35):
I mean even he has he had this blunt kind
of opinion last week on Aaron's character, which is you
cannot deny it once you read this book.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
He doesn't care. He doesn't care. He doesn't care about
the other ten guys. He cares about himself. And with
Tom Brady, Tom was coachable. Tom wanted to be coached,
and even though Tom was the greatest at that position,
he was opened ideas that could make him better.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
But for Aaron, he.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Is just gonna do whatever he wants to do, whatever's
best for him. You are the ten guys. If it's
not good for you, it's not good for the coaching staff,
it's not good for anybody else. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
He's not wrong. Ian O'Connor one hour from now, Colin Wright,
Colin wrong as well. I don't wanna go hard on
the Jets, but I will say this, he is not
the best player on the team, and I think it
will be established very early. He's not a top four
player on the team. Sauce quinnin Garrett Breese our dynamic
(11:40):
jump off a TV screen. He's taking four snaps in
five hundred days and he's forty. And I watch Manning
in FARV fall off a cut lift. Don't. He's not
Lebron and he's not Brady. He is not that obsessive
about his health. He did not get that DNA as
big as Tom. He's not as obsessed as Tom. He's
(12:03):
not as big as Lebron. Lebron's a freak of nature.
Aaron's just really talented. He's not a freak of nature.
Just saying you think he's the savior, I think you
could look up. I think you could look up and
look around at a C. J. Stroud and a Burrow
and a Trevor Lawrence and Herbert with Harbaugh and Josh
Allen Lamar and Deshaun's got Stefanski and go I wish
(12:25):
we were a little younger at quarterback and moved a
little better. I don't think that's crazy, Jay Mack. I
know that starts your week with a bit of a thud,
A negative. Come on, right, we're buddies. It's Monday. It's
a great week ahead, and you have a really great
week coming up. I have a good week coming up.
(12:46):
You don't need to take a dump on the Jets
to start the show. Where's a Caleb Williams. I expect
you would come out here basically saying he's the savior
of the NFL and he's gonna well, we will say
he is interesting. Man. He played the first half. Couldn't
take my eyes off him. It's almost like rock Perty
when I watch him in playoff games, just dominating him. Like, oh,
how was Brock this weekend? Without starters?
Speaker 5 (13:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
I didn't watch pre season eleven yards passing? Not worth?
How many eleven? That's funny when you put him on
a roster equivalent to Carolina, what was he eleven yards past?
Here we go, we see we combative today. You're choosing violince.
Huh okay, So did you see the Caitlin Clark over
the weekend? Yeah? I saw that. Wow, Like that is something. Man,
we are watching this. This is magic. And I had
(13:31):
a thought about not just Caitlin Clark and women's basketball,
but it may be a nightmare for Major League Baseball,
and I'll tell you that coming up.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and noon eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
All right, we call it Colin right, Colin wrong on
a Monday, plenty of both. Here we go where Colin
was right. Caitlin Clark breaks the WNBA rookie record. Also,
so Angel ree is on fire setting records. They both
should have been on the Olympic team. I kept saying,
Caitlin just had to overcome the silly early WNBA schedule.
She is a rising star. Her an Angel Reese on
(14:12):
the WNBA All Star team beat the Olympians. She's I'm
telling you, she is a playmaker. She her passing is
so incredibly undervalued. She is really the rare big score
that's unselfish. She's got the lebron quality like she loves
to pass. And she's already broken, already broken the WNBA
(14:33):
rookie record. And by the way, Indiana now seventh in
the WNBA standings. Here come the fever. Where Colin was raw.
I'd like to apologize for supporting Daniel Jones last week.
I will never do it again. It's like justin Fields,
he just makes too many mistakes. Has just got a
forty five passer rating, no touchdowns in the preseason. He
(14:53):
just makes to This is a bad throw. You got
to go along on that. You can't let Stingley pick
that ball off. That's a rookie mistake. You've been in
this league too long. And I mean, he's a nice kid.
I feel bad for him, but you know, it's Zach Wilson,
it's justin Fields, it's Daniel Jones. You can't make these mistakes.
You're facing backups in many of these instances, vanilla schemes.
(15:13):
You can't make these mistakes. Where Colin was right, Bonnix
looks like a perfect fit. Six scoring drives in seven
drives in the preseason, totally under control, accurate, good in
the muddy pocket. I said before the draft, this kid fips,
and I'll say it again. Do not be shocked if
(15:35):
he is not the best, at least in year one,
the best of the rookie quarterbacks. Denver's offensive skill is undervalued.
Tight end, receiver and running back. I think they're better
than average. He has been absolutely sensational. I said before
the draft, this is the guy that'll work with Sean Payton,
and you're seeing it live. Where Colin was raw, Drake
(15:57):
May I thought, look better than I thought he would
all year. In the last preseason game, he had his
footwork down through with confidence, was accurate. I still don't
love his accuracy, but I thought I thought from first
go around to second like it was noticeably more under
control through a beautiful deep vault. Wasn't cod but you
(16:18):
know he does. When you watch these highlights, he looks
like the comp My NFL executive sources said, they said,
you're gonna see some Justin Herbert, and I'm telling you
I saw in that game glimpses of Justin Herbert where
Colin was right well, I said Caleb Williams last week
would be the most exciting can't turn the TV off
(16:40):
quarterback in the league this year. Not saying the best,
but the most exciting. I'm watching this game against Cincinnati,
you can't shut the TV off. He's fascinating. He's got
a little Lamar, got a little Mahomes, little Josh Allen, spinning, moving, running,
throwing off bounce. Now the criticism is he can be
too much of an ad libber. I'm not saying that's wrong,
(17:01):
but so can Josh Allen. And it's a lot of
fun to watch. This kid is magic and he will
be that one o'clock window on Fox watch the games
because he's going to be in that one o'clock window
a lot. He is sensational. Where Colin was right, well,
the Atlanta Falcons got their edge rusher, edge rusher that
they were so harshly criticized for during the draft, and
(17:23):
the reason they drafted Pennix is, you know what you
can't get at the trading deadline. You know what you
can't get in a trade before a season starts, a young,
talented franchise quarterback. Nobody's given c J. Stroud away, and
they're not given Michael Pennox away. I did not criticize Atlanta.
I said, listen, if you can get a Michael Pennox
at that point in the draft, you take him. You
(17:44):
figure out safety later, you figure out edge rusher later.
And they got Matthew Judon from the Patriots, a massive
upgrade for Atlanta been searching for an edge rusher for
several years. Where Colin was raw, the United States men's
national team. My bad landed, big swing and landed Mauricio Focatino.
(18:08):
And this is a guy that has coached Harry Kane, Messi,
Neymar this is a real coach. And I kept saying
they're going to get rejected, They're going to get the
fit the hand from all the top guys. But he
has coached Chelsea, he has been this is being viewed
(18:31):
as a huge swing, a huge get and universally accepted.
And I didn't trust the United States Soccer Federation, the women, Yeah,
the men didn't trust him. Tip of the cap where
Colin was right, well, well, well what was brought pretty
playing without starters this weekend with like a backup for
(18:52):
Carolina two for six for eleven yards, with no Christian McCaffrey,
no trimp, no depot, three drives, no scores. That's funny.
And have Hall of famers to carry him running for
Oh boy, not a lot of zip there isn't it funny?
I've said before, put him in Carolina, put him with
(19:13):
the Giants, O line. It's not that I don't like him,
but this idea that he is this wildly creative, strong armed,
generational talent. He basically got a Mercedes, don't run it
into a tree, you know, don't hit the garage door
when it's opening. When he played with backups, how do
you look? Where Colin was right? And stub Hub announced
(19:40):
ticket sales college football up forty two year to year,
and it's because of the conference realignment games. That's what
StubHub announced. I pushed back on the idea that transfer portal,
the nil and conference realignment was going to kill the sport.
Folks I grew up in the West Coast. I was
over Cal against Oregon State, Give me Oregon against Ohio State,
(20:02):
USC against Michigan, Texas against LSU or Florida. Stub have
announcing conference realignment is not only not puncturing college football,
they're almost up fifty percent year to year in sales.
People want new, they want fresh, they want funds, and
(20:24):
that's what conference realignment is. And the transfer portal, by
the way, new star quarterbacks Riley Leonard at notre name,
I want to see it. I'm excited for where Colin
was right, where Colin was wrong.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
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Speaker 6 (20:42):
Hey, it's Ben host of The Fifth Hour with Ben
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Speaker 1 (21:03):
Amazing facts about human nature and more.
Speaker 6 (21:06):
Listen to The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller on the
iHeartRadio app, Apple.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Well. He's written
six books, four New York Times bestseller. This one's fascinating
on Aaron Rodgers. Out of the Darkness, The Mystery of
Aaron Rodgers. It comes out officially tomorrow. My friend Ian
O'Connor one of the best columnists in this country for
a long time, in a world class reporter. So you know,
you and I through the years have talked about Aaron,
(21:31):
and you you chose Aaron. There was some proximity. He's
with the Jets. He's so very few of our athletes
have mystery. You know, we see him on social media.
We know everything about everybody. We don't know everything about
Aaron Rodgers. So let's start with the family dynamic. It's
I don't I don't know of another star athlete that
(21:53):
it's to this point. Is he talking with his family?
Speaker 7 (21:55):
Now?
Speaker 5 (21:56):
Ian, there might have been some communication electronically Colin recently.
Speaker 7 (22:03):
Obviously, I had to see him in the book.
Speaker 5 (22:05):
I think you read it where he had a moment
at Lake Tahoe last summer with his father Ed, and
Ed planted himself in the crowd at that celebrity golf
tournament that Aaron plays in every summer, and Aaron saw
him on the ninth hole on Saturday and decided to
go over there and give him a hug. He was thinking,
should ignore him, should I act like I'm on the phone.
But for some reason that day he went over and
(22:26):
gave his dad a hug. Now Ed when he saw Aaron.
He turned around and there he was, standing fifteen feet away.
He couldn't believe it. He froze because he forgot what
it felt like to have his son in his presence,
and to have a son looking at him. It had
been nine years almost So Aaron hugged him. They said,
I love you. It was emotional.
Speaker 7 (22:43):
Ed was crying.
Speaker 5 (22:44):
Aaron had to go back and finish his golf round,
and there wasn't really any follow up, but both said
on the record in my book that they wanted a relationship,
and that's really the first time Aaron has ever said
since the estrangement started in twenty fourteen that he wanted
a relationship with one of his family members.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
So hopefully that's the start of something better.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
One of my takeaways where I found I had great
sympathy for Aaron. It really bothered me. He was almost
I mean, the Brett farr relationship almost felt at times
like hazing. It was really ugly, and it made me
think less of far of and more of Aaron Rodgers
as you did your digging. Jeff Peerlman had written about
some of this stuff. But were you surprised? I found
(23:30):
myself rooting for Aaron on that chapter like it made
it I was. I got emotional about it. I'm thinking, God,
who would treat a young employee like that? Were you
surprised by it?
Speaker 7 (23:42):
No? Not really.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Brett farrv never had any intention of teaching Aaron anything,
and I can see it a little bit from Brett's perspective,
he was a living legend. He was the one who
made the green Bay Packers the green Bay Packers again
after some down years following the glory years of Lombardian Star.
And so he had done so much for that franchise
and all of a sudden, they hire his replacement, and
(24:04):
he's expected to train that replacement to expedite his departure.
And so I could see it from his perspective, but
he treated him really poorly those first couple of years.
Speaker 7 (24:15):
The third year, I think it's that relationship started to
get better.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
It's funny because Colin, I think now their relationship is
pretty good because Aaron got kicked out almost in the
way that Brett got kicked out. Now, I understand that
Aaron wanted the trade, but they wanted to move on
to Jordan Love, just like the Packers back in the
day wanted to move on to Aaron. So they both
experienced this iconic franchise that they did so much for
(24:40):
as first ballot Hall of Famers moving them out. And
I think they have that shared experience that they can
talk about together.
Speaker 7 (24:47):
You know.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It's you know, I've had a couple of knocks. I'll
address both on Aaron's play. One of them is he's
barely above five hundred as a quarterback in the playoffs
and the only functional operation for most of his time Minnesota,
Kirk Cousins was five hundred against him that he benefited
greatly from a very smart front office, good offensive lines,
(25:10):
offensive coaches. Would you push back on the you know,
he's barely above five hundred Mahomes, isn't Brady's not in
the playoffs? What's the pushback on that?
Speaker 5 (25:20):
The pushback is the guy he's always compared against his
Tom Brady, obviously and will be forever.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
Brady has the seven rings.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
He made it look easy, but he had Belichick arguably
the greatest coach ever, and he had the best offensive
coordinator in league, and Josh McDaniels and Aaron never had
those things. So I'm not saying he would have won
six rings in New England like Brady did, but he
would have more than one, that's for sure.
Speaker 7 (25:41):
And also if you look at.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Him, listen, they went it in twenty ten, they should
have two peeded in twenty eleven.
Speaker 7 (25:47):
They were fifteen and one that year, dominating the league,
and then.
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Unfortunately they had a tragedy of the week leading into
that Giant's playoff loss, Joe Philbin tragically loses his son.
That really had a profound impact on that team. But
even taking it back to a football context, in twenty
thirteen through sixteen, they lose every year. So from the
outside looking in, Aaron's a loser, loser, loser, loser in
(26:10):
those four seasons. But he made magical plays in sudden
death games in each of those four seasons, and that.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
Gets totally forgotten. So that's my pushback.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
I could go over the plays he made, he probably
remember all of them, but one in particular, the drive
at the end in twenty fifteen against Arizona. He threw
two hail mary's to tie that game in the final seconds.
He basically won one hundred yards because it was fourth
and twenty. I think on the first one he threw
it out of the end zone sixty yard. It was
a line drive hail mary. The Jeff Janis so I
(26:42):
think had two catches that year, and then he throws
hail mary in the final seconds to score the final
the tying touchdown. Janis making that catch as well. McCarthy
should have gone for two points there because the previous
year they lose in Seattle left Aaron made that great
drive at the end to tie it following the collapse.
Speaker 7 (27:00):
But McCarthy didn't go for two.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
They lose the coin toss again and two straight playoffs
end with Aaron never touching the ball in overtime. Of course,
in sixteen, he makes one of the great postseason passes
ever to beat Dallas. Then they lose to just a
better Atlanta team in the NFC Championship game. So I'm
not saying that your number, your numbers work. I mean,
they are what they are. He's eleven and ten in
(27:22):
the postseason, and he can't run away from that. But
I'm just adding a little context to those numbers.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
You know, he does feel like and listen, he's not
the only guy that pushed back on the vaccine. Okay,
he's not all right there, and I do think there
were government overreaches. I live in California. They wouldn't let
people go to the beach. I'm not going to beat
him up too bad on that. I may disagree with him.
I took a vaccine, but I don't think it's fair
to beat him up because he's not You're not one
on one on that but there is the Darkness retreat,
(27:49):
the Iahwasca there there. He feels quirkier. Now I've kind
of pointed to he's not married, he's got no kids.
He kind of lives in his own orbit. If I
started doing Darkness retreats, my wife would be like, all right,
get a divorce attorney. So I kind of blame that.
He's kind of a when you get rich and you
get old and you don't have to sacrifice much for others,
(28:09):
it does change you. I feel like he's gotten more
conspiratorial and a little AWE doesn't feel he feels like
a the quarterback slash podcaster in the last three years.
Is that fair? Can you explain that? Do you see that?
Speaker 7 (28:25):
I see it? Yeah. But the thing is with the
conspiracy theories.
Speaker 5 (28:28):
He started with that in high school, studying the jfk
assassination and coming to believe, like many Americans, that it
was a conspiracy involving a government agency. And so he's
actually had that as part of his life for a
long time. He's gotten more public about it, and some
of his conspiracy theories are a little wackier and more vile.
I guess then, But what happened there was he studied
(28:52):
Operation Northwoods, which actually happened in the nineteen sixties. It's
one of the most vile plots ever hatched by a
government official in this country, where the Joint Chiefs of
Staff had a plan to have the US military attack
American military and civilian targets. Yeah, blame it on Castro
as justification to start a war with Cuba. Thankfully, President
Kennedy nixed it. But Aaron studied that and was fascinated
(29:15):
by it, and he now thinks there's an Operation Northwoods
behind everything, and of course there isn't. So Yeah, that
is that's part of his life, but it's been Conspiracies
have been a part of his life for a long time.
Speaker 7 (29:26):
He's just been.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
More public about it since COVID really changed his life
in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, it's fascinating. This book is so interesting. Out of
the darkness, the mystery of Aaron Rodgers. I won't give
away the first chapter, but the story of his great
grandfather is. It's completely fascinating your work on this. He
went a mile deep, and it's just it's sensational. New
York's interesting. You know, people view him as sort of
(29:55):
the savior in fact, I'm gonna get to this in
a second. Let me go back to green Bay. It
ended out of the darkness retreat. He came out of it,
and they just moved on. Now, they didn't draft Jordan
Love to sit. They were gonna move to Jordan Love anyway.
But there is this sense that green Bay just had
enough and bailed. Is that overstated the exit when the
(30:19):
Packers jettison Aaron, was it coming anyway or did they
truly with your reporting? Did they truly just were they
exhausted with Aaron the guy?
Speaker 5 (30:29):
Now they were exhausted, and with Aaron and green Bay,
you had the downside of the drama, but you always
had the upside of making the playoffs. Basically every year
when he was healthy, and he's a first ballot Hall
of Famer. But that last year in green Bay they
didn't make the playoffs. They had an opportunity that last game.
He did not play well, He was injured a lot
of the year. He seemed to be declining a little bit,
(30:51):
and they said, we're out of here. They wanted him
out of green Bay, and he did see a great
opportunity with the Jets because of what that could mean
to his legacy and always being compared to Brady. Well,
Brady's at seven rings and I'm at one. I'm never
closing that gap. But if I win one in New
York for a franchise that hasn't been to the Super
Bowl since January sixty nine, that's going to feel like
(31:12):
three rings. So it worked for him, but clearly Green
Bay wanted him out, just like Green Bay wanted Brett
Farbaut after he lost the NFC Championship Game to the Giants,
and they wanted to move to Aaron. Very similar situations.
Both parties needed a divorce and Aaron had to change
the dynamic of his career. It was one postseason bitter
(31:33):
moment after another for what for twelve years. He needed
a change and he saw opportunity in the Jets, and
that opportunity is still there.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Let's be fair here. Aaron treated Jordan Love from your reporting,
better than far have treated him. That's clear right.
Speaker 7 (31:50):
By far It's not even close.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, and good relationship with him. Do you believe there
is still resentment about Green Bay? Aaron tends to be
I think it's fair. He can ghost, he can be
a little bit of a grudge holder for the record.
I think Belichick is as a coach, and you've done
a book on him. Do you think the Green Bay
situation today? If you asked him privately, does Aaron still
(32:12):
resent the Packers?
Speaker 7 (32:15):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (32:16):
Yeah, I think just the greats. They feel slighted and
they never forget it. Yeah, And Aaron holds a grudge
like he holds the football with a very firm grip.
Speaker 7 (32:26):
He never lets go.
Speaker 5 (32:26):
That's how he got into the Jimmy Kimmel mess because
Kimmel had mocked him and he was waiting for an
opportunity to get him back, and he picked the wrong
moment to do it, and he got himself in a
lot of trouble. And so there's no question if you
asked Aaron which team he'd like to face in the
Super Bowl as a member of the New York Jets.
Speaker 7 (32:41):
It's the Green Bay Packers.
Speaker 5 (32:43):
And that's what fuels these guys and real or imagine slights,
And let's face it, Yeah, he wanted the trade. He
got the trade, but it was more like a firing
to me. I think the Packers wanted to fire him,
and I think he knows that, and I think I'll
never forget this is a guy who out of high
school didn't have a single scholarship offer. He gets humiliated
(33:05):
at the draft. He got thirteen ten on his SATs.
He's a great quarterback, and he's got to go to
the local community college. Those things add up to that
gigantic chip on his shoulder that still has not gone away.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well, we've seen a couple of moments, and I could
blame Robert Sola for this as well, where Aaron you
know a lot of passive aggressive stuff in Green Bay
with the front office. He'd go on a local radio
station and or talk to media and you know, very
intentional stuff. He also made a very intentional comment about
you know, Slad didn't give him a tip if he
was playing, and I thought, oh boy, here we people
(33:38):
are what they are. You know, you can hire somebody
with a reputation. After about six months to a year,
that employee becomes what they are. Do you since that
if this thing goes sideways, Aaron's not going to take
the hit like that. My take is Aaron gunpoint a
finger at somebody if this thing goes sideways. Do you
feel and you're close now because you're in the city
(34:00):
as a columnist, do you feel slight. It's at the
very beginning of potential issues if it goes sideways. An
ugly blowout lost with the Niners in Week one.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Not that early, but I do think if the Jets
are two and five, this could really go south and
get ugly in a hurry, because he's lost some of
that goodwill from Jets fans.
Speaker 7 (34:24):
They loved him last year.
Speaker 5 (34:25):
New York City fell in love with Aaron like I've
never seen the city fall in love with a superstar
coming in from another market.
Speaker 7 (34:31):
It was unbelievable.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
But that all went away with the injury, the offseason controversies.
The Jets, of course, being the Jets, they got all
the downside of employing Aaron Rodgers and none of the upside.
So if they're having a losing season, first of all,
everyone's getting fired. Sala's getting fired, Hacket's getting fired, Joe
Douglas is getting fired, and Aaron might get fired. Woody
(34:52):
Johnson loves having a star quarterback. If Aaron plays a
decent level of football and they have a losing season,
it's possible what he will bring him back with the
new coach, But chances are if they don't make the playoffs,
Rogers is out of the building with everyone else in
that Jet organization.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Out of the darkness. The mystery of Aaron Rodgers. Let's
show the cover if we can again, six books for
New York Times Bestseller. He goes a mile deep on
this stuff. Sometimes you'll be sympathetic to Aaron. Sometimes he'll
frustrate you. And again he's one of the few American
athletes where there's mystery. We know everything, we know what
people have for lunch. Now with Aaron, there's a lot
(35:33):
of layers to the onion appeal back and you do
a great JOBB and his always thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (35:39):
You're the best column. Thanks very much, all right,
Hosts And Creators
Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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