September 26, 2024 • 40 mins
Colin looks at the Cowboys ahead of their game against the Giants on Thursday Night Football and why we can't get distracted from the real problems Dallas has. He gives his top 10 list ranking the most clutch QBs in the NFL right now. Plus, Super Bowl Champion Drew Brees joins the show to talk about the challenges young QBs face in today's NFL
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
(00:23):
on Fox Sports Radio. Oh what a show we have today.
It's Thursday Cowboys Giants tonight, live in Los Angeles. It's
the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may
be watching or listening. One hour from now, Greg Cosell,
if you bet football, play fantasy football, want to get
(00:43):
smarter at football? Greg Cosel in one hour from now. Jmac,
I'm so excited to do today's show. Drew Breese stops
by as well.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Listen to me.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I was singing about this. Dallas is gonna win tonight.
Lock it up, Yes, sir, so, Dallas is gonna win
tonight because on these Thursday night games, just take the
better quarterback. Dak Is twelve and two against the Giants,
Daniel Jones one and seven against Dallas, Aaron Rodgers won
big on Thursday night. Josh Allen one big on Thursday Night.
(01:20):
Dak's gonna win. I don't know. I think it's a
touchdown game. Dak's gonna win tonight. You don't have time
to do a lot of prep for Thursday night. Not
a lot of surprises, not a lot of zig zag.
Best quarterbacks gonna win the game. I'm gonna take Dak
and the Cowboys to win by a touchdown, and you know,
but it's interesting. They may look even really good winning.
I'm gonna go like twenty four to thirteen ce d Lamb.
(01:42):
Maybe maybe I have a couple tuddies. I think Micah
Parson's gonna have a couple sacks. And the defense eh,
no movement up front. That's because the Giants don't have
munch of a run game. But don't let it cloud
the fact that the last five playoff teams Dallas's face,
they're one and four Baltimore, Buffalo, Green Bay, Detroit, Miami.
(02:04):
They're one and four in a bad call against the
Lions from being zero to five and been routed in
most of them. So don't let don't let the win tonight.
And they're gonna win to I don't let it freak
you out. So I thought before, you know, I do
about four times during the season I do a Super
Bowl bubble, and so let's just look, we're this is
week four, the start of week four, and this is
(02:25):
currently my Super Bowl bubble for the radio audience. I
have six teams, seven teams inside the bubble. Their favorites
Kansas City, Buffalo, Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit. Yeah, I buy
the Vikings, Baltimore, San Francisco. I have the Jets, the Seahawks,
and the Philadelphia I'm letting them lean on the fence
(02:46):
at this ranch. I'm letting them lean on the fence.
I may let them into the property. Dallas. I don't
even have the Saints on this. And they crushed Dallas
in Dallas, blew them out right, So this is Dallas.
Isn't he even allowed into the county lines here, so
we're not even I don't even think they're close. And
I've said this before. I think it used to be
in the NFL, that quirky and weird, you know, Jerry Glanville,
(03:10):
a little over the top guy, Dennis Green, I think
a quirky and different and unique Sam wish you can
get Super Bowls, you can win a division, you can
win a lot of games. You I think the NFL
has gotten smarter, more sophisticated, more business like, more, more analytics.
Though it's not baseball where it's made the game boring.
(03:32):
But I think when the NFL family owned and operated,
that used to be like prideful. Hey we're family owned
and operated. That's for a deli. I don't think that works.
I think you have to be staying cronky and be
the biggest residential and commercial real estate owner in America,
maybe the world. That's that's what you need. Now, family
(03:54):
owned and operated is like the Raiders, like, I don't know,
there's a does that feel robust dynamic? I've said the
NFL allowed quirky, and this happens all the time in
a lot of businesses. Quirky and weird is okay. In
Hollywood that used to play and now it's like The
(04:15):
Avengers Part nine, it's basically the independent film. Yeah, finance
it yourself with your money. And I think that's why
Hollywood has slowed down. It's like big streamers and big
movies and we're not making anything else. And I think
quirky and weird and highly emotional, and I think that stuff.
(04:35):
It doesn't it's cute, but it just doesn't win enough.
And I think that's what the Lakers have become, and
I think it's what the Cowboys have become. Family owned
businesses and this is not a family owned business league
as much. It's the biggest and the richest that are winning.
And I look at today, if you look at the
schedule for Dallas, let's be honest, it only gets tougher.
(04:56):
This is the last layup I thought Pittsburgh would be. Yeah,
I was wrong about They're going to go four and
oh so at Pittsburgh against the league's best defense. Oh
that it's the Lions. And then it's at San Francisco
and at Atlanta, and here's Philly and c J. Stroud
and oh crap, Jayden Daniels is good. Oh Joe Burrow,
this is the last layup. Cleveland was a layup. You
(05:20):
thought the Saints would be a layup, got blown out,
Baltimore wasn't lost. And then they have the Giants DAK
twelve and two. So, and what's funny is Dallas has
always held themselves because of their regular season wins as
sort of above the dysfunctional guys, you know, the losers.
(05:40):
But Dallas has not won multiple playoff games in twenty
nine years. So this morning I went and looked at
the dysfunctional teams over twenty nine years. In the Cowboys
over twenty nine years. Let's take the Chicago Bears last
twenty nine seasons. They actually have two conference championship appearances.
(06:00):
The Cowboys have none. Okay, okay. What about the Jaguars, Well,
they actually have eight playoff wins the Cowboys have five,
and twenty nine years, they have three conference championships appearances. Oh,
the Cowboys have none. Okay, okay, but what about the
Carolina Panthers. Those guys are a mess. That's a circus. Hey, hey,
(06:24):
they have almost double the playoff wins and four conference
championship appearances. The Cowboys have none. All right, all right, okay,
you win the argument, Colin. Give me the Raiders. Oh
they have two conference championship appearances and almost the same
number of playoff wins. Dallas, I know you look down
(06:46):
at them last twenty nine years. You are them, that's
what you are. So don't go crazy with the win tonight.
I'll go twenty four to thirteen Cowboys, Micah sack Ceedee Lamb,
big Night, Dak, you know, doing Dak's thing in a
standalone game against the Giants. But Micah Parson says he's
(07:10):
tired of getting beat badly by good teams.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I feel like it's a competitive At some point, you
gotta be prideful enough to say, hey.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Us, I'm not going to low this to happen to me.
Like I just feel like some people would just allown
them to keep getting smacked in the.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Face, Like when are you gonna stand up?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
All right? So, unfortunately many of you are misguided and
think I don't like Aaron Rodgers. But I did have
them leaning on the fence in the Super Bowl bubble,
not quite in the ranch, but pet and the horses
right right, put some carrots over the fence. The dogs
(07:52):
are barking at you, Dallas. I don't even I don't
even let them down the driveway. But Aaron Rodgers said
something that's important, and it's really important because Aaron has
experience with this and the Jets have none. And Aaron
talks about and he's totally right, and this is his
real value. By the way, this is where Aaron Rodgers
(08:12):
is really valuable to the Jets. Aaron Rodgers was important
to the Packers, but Jordan Love, Malik, Willis, Brett Faarr
Packards win a lot of games regardless. This is where
Aaron's really important, not about the losing. It's now that
the Jets are winning, how to handle it.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I go back to this quote a lot. But Mike
McCarthy said our biggest, our biggest struggle is going to
be handling success back in two thousand and six in
Green Bay, and there's a lot to that. I think,
you know, when it's easier when you're kind of getting
kicked in the teeth to kind of come together. It's
us against the world, it's us against the big bad
media who's saying how bad we are. You know, we
(08:52):
can kind of come together. But can you still come
together and have the same approach when everybody's kind of
starting to sing your praises a little bit? I think
that's the mark of a great team is can you
handle the success part with the same focus, the same mentality,
the same mindset, the same energy when you're starting to
get on a little bit.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Of a role.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Aaron's wright and this is his real value because Aaron
is a winner and the Jets aren't. And Jet fans
and Jets media, but mostly their fans, they're crazy town.
I mean, the Cowboys win twelve games every regular season, right,
three straight years, twelve twelve twelve real success until like January,
(09:34):
but real success. And when Dallas Cowboy fans were pulled
in the athletic recently, sixty percent said we have no
chance to win a Super Bowl. The New York Jets
beat a rookie head coach to Kobe Brissett at home
this past Thursday, and the Mayor of New York, you know,
if he wasn't being indicted, would have thrown a ticker
(09:55):
tape parade. They're nuts, they're crazy. Before the season and
I said the Jets are a nine to ten win team,
Buffalo wins the division, they'll battle Miami to the very
end for a playoff spot. I feel the exact same,
the exact same today. But if you go back to
that Patriots game and Aaron talks about containing a restraining yourself,
(10:15):
containing yourself right when you're winning, Robert Sala, the head coach,
was so enthusiastic in the second quarter, just with a
lead over the Patriots, Aaron Rodgers. You remember the video
had to go bro bro Bro, chill out. It's the Patriot.
It's the second quarter. It's just or in the middle
(10:35):
of the game. We're not the halftime yet. So maybe
it's because the Jets share a city with the Giants
who have four trophies, or their primary rival is the
Patriots and they have six trophies. So maybe that Thursday
night win, A winning record's a big deal. I mean,
if you never had any money and you want to
scratch off ticket for fifteen hundred bucks, it would be
(10:56):
a big deal. If you're forty four years old, the
guy you've never really really had a serious girlfriend and
you have a great date, it is a big deal.
The Giant success, the Patriot success. But when I look
at Aaron, this is Aaron's real value. I mean, I
looked this up this morning. I still can't believe the
(11:20):
Jets haven't won the division in twenty two years. This
is the NFL. The Lions got to a conference championship
last year. The Jaguars have been to three of those things,
right in twenty nine years. Jets haven't won a division
in twenty two years. So when Aaron says, chill relax.
(11:40):
It was a little condescending in Green Bay because they
had more continuity and a better coach and more franchise momentum.
But when Aaron says R E. Lax in New York,
he's absolutely, inarguably correct. This team, this head the coach
was freaking out with a lead on Thursday over Jacoby Brissett,
(12:03):
a team in New England that we had said before
the season started, we'll have the number one pick next year.
He's right on that, and that's his real value, all right.
So yesterday on the show, we were talking about something.
J Mack brought this up, one of his very decisive
his wisdom. We were talking about quarterback plays and how
(12:27):
I if it all matters in life for quarterbacks. I
don't care about your talent, your resume. What I care
about a minute forty five left fourth quarter, you trail
on the road one time out? Who would you take
one through ten? So I'm going to do that next
And by the way, many of them are the best
(12:49):
quarterbacks in the league. But that's the difference. I don't
care about your resume. I don't care about all that stuff.
Buck forty five one time out, trail by four on
the road, gotta get it into the end zone. Not
interested in field goals? Okay, so I'll do that next.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
(13:11):
and Noone Eastern, non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app. So J Mack
created this yesterday. By the way, you're entering the Noble
Zone sponsored by Credible Great Rates, None of the bull
Jay Max started this yesterday when he talked about we
were talking about quarterbacks, and I said, you know, a
minute forty five left, you trail your on the road.
(13:33):
Field goal doesn't win it one time out? Who would
you take Gardner Minshew or Deshaun Watson? And I would
say I would take Gardner Minshew today. Would you take
Baker Mayfield or Trevor Lawrence? I would take Baker Mayfield today.
I don't care about your contract, your resume, your draft status.
I don't care right now. I'd take Sam Darnold from
what I've seen the first three weeks over a lot
(13:54):
of quarterbacks who are viewed as better quarterbacks. And it's
almost how you judge friends. A friend will help you move,
A great friend will help you move. A body I
lived in Vegas. I'm not going to get into it.
So there's a difference, and I judge it based on crisis.
(14:21):
The all time greats, Joe Montana, Brady Elway all did
one thing in common, some big, some small, some big arms,
some mobile, one thing in common. Brady Mahomes, Lway great
in crisis. A lot of guys are talented, they're not
great in crisis. And so my top ten quarterbacks based
(14:41):
on this premise, because that's what I'm paying for. I'm
not paying for your resume. Jalen Hurts got a great resume.
It turns them all over too much. Can I trust him?
And now he lost a great center and now he
didn't have aj Brown. Would I trust him today in
a drive? Not really? With Nick Serry, Okay, so here
we go the king on this, He's the l Way.
(15:05):
He is the Brady of his generation. It's Mahomes. Let's
not argue it. That forty four yard game time drive
with thirteen seconds left is the greatest last second, limited
time scarcity drive in the history of football. And it
really is defining. I mean, he's really especially in the
early years when he had a high powered offense. I
mean he trailed playoff games by two touchdowns. Nobody cared.
(15:28):
Didn't change the way you attacked him. Number two, and
I think his superpower is if you got to pick
up yards down the field, best arm in the league,
Josh Allen, also great scrambling. I think mobility matters a
lot in that minute forty five go to Mahomes' Super
Bowl games. Mobility matters in these spots because stuff breaks
(15:48):
down sometimes the Steve Spagnola's going to bring the house.
Kirk Cousins, I love him. I don't get any mobility
with him. Josh Allen too. Joe Burrow, I get just
enough more mobility. And I also think he got to
a Super Bowl with road wins with an atrocious offensive
line and was running for his life. That to me
defined Burrow as less talent than maybe Mahomes, less physical
(16:13):
wow than Alan, but his ability to win with bad
old lines. And we don't know if Zach Taylor can
coach puts him at three, one spot ahead of a
guy that doesn't give me the mobility of Burrow, Matt Stafford.
But Stafford leads all quarterbacks currently playing with thirty six
fourth quarter comebacks. He had another one Sunday. This is
his superpower is like Mahomes arm angles, throw it from
(16:37):
any platform. I don't get mobility, and if the pocket collapses,
he's in trouble. But I put him four. I put
Aaron Rodgers justin Knox below because now Aaron is good.
But I've never thought he's as great trailing as an
l Way, Mahomes Brady or a Matt Stafford. I will
say though, in the last two years, half his wins
(16:57):
our game winning drive, so he's gotten better at it.
A number six and now it gets tricky because I
feel strongly about the first five, probably CJ. Stroud. Now,
I don't have a big resume to work with, and
he's had a couple stinkers. These young quarterbacks Minnesota game,
they have stinkers. They go sideways fast for these young quarterbacks.
Seventy five yard game winning drive forty seconds against the
(17:20):
Bucks like it's impressive. I'm sorry. Greg Cosell talks about
it this week. Last week, the kids just different. I
would say number seven. Again, I don't have a huge resume,
but I love Jordan Love. He had three game winning
drives last year in his first full season as a starter,
and in the playoffs, his first first time go to
the playoffs. He had a ninety nine passer rating and
(17:43):
sixty seven percent completion ratio with the youngest offensive team,
youngest roster since the nineteen seventy Buffalo Bills in the playoffs.
I know what's young, but between Lafleur, the youth, his mobility.
Now he's gonna have again. He's gonna throw some picks.
He's more far than Aaron Rodgers. He's got some gunslinger
in him, but I would put him seven. I will
tell you this is where brought Purty won me over
(18:05):
last week. Last week was a proving point, no Christian McCaffrey,
no Debo, no Kittle against Stafford and McVeigh. He didn't
win the game, but he won me over. I was like, Wow.
And by the way, brock Purty highest fourth quarter passer
rating in league history. That's something, folks, I don't know
if it's kase Shanahant. That's the highest fourth quarter passer
(18:27):
rating in the history of the league. I know, I
know he hasn't played a lot. He's played enough to
know some of that's relevant. Number nine. I may criticize Dak,
but he was three to zero and one score games
last year. Now they get their teeth kicked in about
four times a year. In the blowouts. He can be ugly,
but in close games, Dak's a grown up. Dak generally
(18:49):
throws to the right guy. I don't think he has
the biggest arm. He didn't move around like Kyler Murray.
But I just trust the IQ, the EQ. You know,
the intangibles for Dak better than the tangibles. But in tangibles,
Eli Manning was like that. I didn't love Eli. I
loved them in a minute forty to go. I loved
him in Super Bowls. Dak's got some of that quality.
(19:10):
I always trust Dak in tight spots. His limitations aren't
his ability to maneuver. Late number ten by a nose,
Lamar Jackson over Jared Goff. Goff gives me no mobility.
If the pocket breaks down, you're done.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Now.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Lamar hasn't been as successful as you think he has late,
but it should be noted in the last two minutes
of his career, Lamar is a one twenty passer rating.
I hate to break it to you. He's good there now.
I do not think. I do not think he throws
from the pocket as well as an Aaron or a
Stafford or a Mahomes, and sometimes not as good as Dak,
(19:43):
but I love his ability to just make stuff up.
So I do give Josh Allen improvisation. Lamar Jackson, it
does matter. Jared Goff would be eleven that you get
into the Jalen hurt stuff, but that these are the
These are the guys. I don't care about resume of
playoff appearance. I don't care who do you trust on
(20:07):
the road. Need a tuddy minute forty five one time
out and facing a decent defense. I'm not saying you're
facing Spags and the Chiefs, but you're facing a defense
that can create a pass rush. This is and I
will say this with Aaron and Stafford, they may not
move as well, but they are so good pre snap
that they can alleviate stuff. Oras Jared Goff, I don't
(20:28):
think moves as well as those two, and I don't
think he's as good pre snap. So there's my top ten,
and yes I have pretty and Deck in there. So again,
if this is not about arm, it's not about size,
it's not about it's just who do I trust and
what you'll see with these ten guys. You mostly get
grown ups. There's ten for ten grown ups. Guys that
(20:50):
love football, live football, obsessed by football, all in on football,
not distracted by anything else. A lot of grown ups here.
And I know Aaron in the offseason goes to Egypt,
but in the season, Aaron's buttoned up in the season.
And that's what I really You know, you want to
go to Costa Rican, hang out for a month and disappear.
I'm I'm not going to spend a lot of time.
I don't care about that stuff, not that much. All right,
(21:11):
Jay mc anything jump out at you. I went over
to Pro Football Reference.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I think you'd be surprised which quarterback led the NFL
last year in game winning drives in the fourth quarter
overtime and he is not in your top ten and
you did not mention him once.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Who is it? Geno Smith topping.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts who were tied at four.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
But if I said to you, I just said to you,
top of mind. There you give me the last great
Gino road fourth quarter comeback? Anything popp into your head,
that's it. Yeah, So you again, stats and you know
it's one thing at home to be beat in Arizona.
What Gino doesn't come top of mind is now, I
will say Gino is a very accurate quarterback. We just
(21:57):
have to get over this that dude stands in the
pocket and throws seventy three percent darts. I've been harder
on Gino because I do think there's a ceiling with him,
and and and so I didn't mention him.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I would have pretty a little higher.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I would have Stafford probably at two. When I showed
this to the guys on the facility, they all went
he Stafford's one a after Mahame.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Stafford's abandoned.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
He's so good. Come on. Be sure to catch live
editions of the Herd weekdays and noonon Easter. Not a
em Pacific. Well, he was in the grind of the
NFL for twenty seasons, fifteen with the Saints, five with
the Chargers. Thirteen time Pro Bowler. He's going to be
eligible for the Hall of Fame in twenty twenty six,
and he'll be a first ballot guy still whole. I'm
just looking at his notable NFL records, seven times leading
(22:45):
the NFL in passing yards, and I want to bring
on Drew Brees because that's interesting when you you know,
not that you didn't throw deep a lot, but to
lead the NFL in passing yards. You know, we tend
to think Marino and mahall the deep, and that's not
what the league is. The league is pre snap. And
I was talking to a GM last night and he said, oh,
(23:09):
everybody gives talks Brady and Manning. He goes. When I
looked at tape, what Drew Brees did pre snap, he
and Peyton was music. It was it was Broadway they
were making. And I think about that, Drew, because we
rush everybody now, all these quarterbacks. If you're not good
by your second Thanksgiving, half the guys in the room
(23:29):
are raising their hands when you're not there, saying draft
a new quarterback. You got so good at the offensive line,
and this GM was like, there's never been anybody better
than Breeze at this at the line, it was different
than everybody. How long did it take you? As I
watched Jayden, Daniels and bow Nicks before literally Drew, you
had seen everything and you were manipulating them. They weren't
(23:53):
manipulating you.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Look, that's a great question. I when I played it
pretty university, you know, we ran the spread offense a
lot of I wasn't responsible for changing any protections or
doing anything like that. Everything that we we had, we're
built in hots. You know. You just knew when you
had to get rid of the ball. You knew when
there was a guy coming free, and then that adjust
(24:17):
might adjust the clock in your head. When I got
to the NFL, it was very much the same way
in my first five years with the San Diego Chargers.
I wasn't responsible for mike IDs, I wasn't responsible for protections.
I was just responsible to get the ball out on
time in rhythm. Every route concept had a progression, and
I had to know and understand when I was going
(24:40):
to be hot, in other words, when there was going
to be a free rusher that was unblocked, you know,
according to what the protection scheme was. And then I
just had to know I had to get the ball out.
Maybe there was a site adjustment, that it was made
by a receiver that we had to be on the
same page when I got to New Orleans. Sean Payton's
offense required the order back to or put the quarterback
(25:02):
in a position where, hey, it's necessary for you now
to take on the responsibility of calling out you know
who who the mic linebacker is or who the linebacker
is that the offensive line is now responsible for. Right.
Typically in a standard four down, defensive lineman front the line,
your five linemen of irresponsible for those four plus one.
(25:23):
More so, it was your job to identify who that
fifth guy was that we're responsible for, depending on the
run play. If it was a run play, Hey, whoever
I'm miking, that might be who you're going to It
might be meaning that I'm idea in this guy, and
then you're going to block the guy to the left.
There was all these different adjustments then that would happen
on third down, where you know, now the defense is
(25:46):
going to play a bunch of different fronts, and you
have protection calls that will all of a sudden send
four linemen to the right, or all five linemen to
the right, or you know, three linemen to the right,
and now the back's going to step up and he's
going to take whoever's in the aid. Right. So you
just have all these different calls based on you know,
who you're identifying and what type of pressure is coming.
(26:06):
And that responsibility became more and more as I got
into my career. But honestly, I wouldn't have it any
other way because I wanted to be in control of
those things. I wanted to be in a position where
I was trying to put our lineman in the best
matchup positions to be able to, you know, take their
guys and protect. I didn't want Alvin Kamara to have
(26:28):
to block you know, a two hundred and fifty pound
linebacker or even a big outside linebacker, a defensive end
like I would try to get him out in the
route as much as possible. So if I could make
a different declaration that would allow Alvin Kamara to free release, well,
guess what, that's that's better for his longevity. It's also
better for me because it gives me, you know, another
(26:50):
weapon in the secondary. So all these things were a progression.
I certainly didn't start off that way year one, year two,
not even until year six, an eight from wow wow.
So yeah, it took some time.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, and we're not patient like that anymore. If bo
Nicks isn't good by Thanksgiving next year. And what's interesting
is Shawn's intense. So I get to know Sean really
well when he worked here, and I loved him dinner
with Sean Payton's story time and he's intense. Now, everybody
coaches different. Matt Lafleur doesn't feel as intense. Sean Payton
feels more intense. So if I said, hey, bo Nicks,
Drew Brees is going to give you a one piece
(27:24):
of advice for Shawn's personality, he's intellect You're smiling. What
is the piece of advice you would give bow Nicks?
Because Sean can get hot, Sean's going to be demanding you.
Your personality can handle it. Is there a piece of
advice you'd give bo Nicks?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, he just as demanding right back to him. Okay,
you know I Sean. Sean likes that. Sean. Sean wants
to see you confident and sure you know everything. Obviously,
Sean and I got to a play a place with
our relationship where it was almost like we could finish
each other's soon, and says, I knew exactly what he
(28:01):
was thinking before he called to play. We had just
rehearsed it so much, we had talked about it so
much throughout the course of the week that you know,
I knew the minute we crossed the fifty yard line,
this was the play call coming out of his mouth.
Minute or you know, we're inside the red zone. This
is the play we're running. The minute they go to
this defense. He wants this or that pressure, he wants
this right and it stuff that we've talked about and
rehearsed together night before the game. We're dot nicol sheet,
(28:23):
here's my favorite play, Sean. He's telling me his favorite plays. Right.
We're just again rehearsing it over and over so that
we can just be as if you know, kind of
one you know, one mind out there together. But look
there there of course there were moments where you know, man,
I'm going to make a mistake, and we got to
the point where, man, he knows that he knows that
I knew that I made the mistake, righted the yelling
(28:45):
that's creaming at me. But for a young quarterback who's
trying to really teach and coach and kind of get
on the same page with him, there's probably going to
be a lot more of that, you know, and he'll
be pretty firm with you at times. And I think
what he loves to see and I think a lot
of this came from Parcels. You know, Parcels would be
very demanding on his assistant coaches, right, and Parcels wanted
(29:06):
those coaches that have the same type of you know,
kind of intensity and confidence coming right back at him.
So I think Sean loves that coming back from the quarterback.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So Aaron Rodgers said something I thought was really smart.
And Aaron's won a lot of football games, and the
Jets have it. And Aaron said, and I've heard this before,
but Aaron was very eloquent. He said, you know, everybody
kind of acts the same way. When they lose, they're pissed,
they work harder, they galvanize. But it's different when you win.
Guys splinter off, they get into endorsements, they get into
(29:36):
their fields. That's a whole different boat. San Francisco had
a noisy off season. Travis Kelsey's now dating the world's
most popular. I mean, when you win, the world changes.
So you went like Aaron Rodgers, you went to a loser,
you made him a winner. Go back to the first
because you guys won right out of the shoot. You
and Sean that first year. How did you take a
(29:58):
losing franch ey win in New Orleans. By the way,
they're not going to bed at eight forty five. New
Orleans and New York are not Indianapolis, so that's it's
a port city. There's a lot happening. Go back to
your first year winning twenty three year old teammates. Was
that difficult or challenging.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
There? You have to look at the guys that were
brought in that year. I mean, look here we are
six months post Katrina. You know, the entire city of
New Orleans have been destroyed, devastated, right, I mean there
was nothing to show off about New Orleans for anybody
coming to town, right like this day and age with
you know, recruiting and the way that you're going to
try to wine and dine guys when they come in.
(30:39):
There was no real wining and dining, you know. It was, Hey,
you have to see this for what it is. And
so it's going to take a special type of person
and a special mindset to embrace the challenge that you're
going to face here, but also see the realm of possibility. Right,
Can you share this vision with us? And I certainly did.
I felt like it was a calling for me to
be there. I was coming off of a pretty serious
(31:02):
injury right where I wasn't sure how great a football player,
I was gonna be able to be coming back. I
really did. Sean Payton had a ton of confidence to me,
Mickey Loomis, that entire organization a ton of confidence in me,
maybe more so than I did myself at the time.
And you look at the rest of the free agents
that were brought in that year as well. It's not
like everybody was banging down the door to get these guys,
you know, it was it was a little bit of
(31:23):
a joke. We had one of our coaches, Joe Vitt,
called that group and O six the castaways. It was
like nobody else wanted you, will take you, you know,
because look, you're tough guys, You're the right type of mindset,
Like you share the vision. You see what we can
accomplish here. You know it's going to be a difficult journey,
but you're not going to shy away from that. You're
not afraid of that. And like we needed that mentality,
(31:44):
We needed those types of guys like that's what it
was going to take, and that that first season was
obviously very magical. I mean, we were not as talented
a team as the teams that we stepped on the
field with me and we were gritty, we were tough,
and we had the city on our shoulders, you know,
(32:05):
right there beside us, feeling like we had so much
more to play for than everybody else. And that's really
what I think that first season was about. But it
was also about what helped create the foundation for what
I think the New Orleans Saints became in the Sean
Payton era. And that's that was what we prided ourselves on.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So because you went to Iowa State, you know, you
went to Purdue not a football power. In fact, when
you went there, before you got there, it was mostly basketball.
The boiler Makers had the basketball gen KTI programs, that
kind of stuff. And so in State of Texas, you know,
Drew's not six ' four, you know, you know the game,
(32:42):
and so you probably have a soft spot for Brock Purty.
I watched them at college and the first time, Like so,
he gets drafted at the end whatever I mean, Outside
of Kurt Warner Romo, these guys get drafted late, maybe
Mark Brunell, most guys get you know, good guys get
drafted first, second, third, whatever. And then all of a
sudden he starts winning. And I won't give him any
credit I'm like, well, let's get Shanahan. It's a bunch
(33:04):
of Hall of Fame guys. And then slowly but surely,
you're like, he's pretty he's pretty good. And uh So
it took me a while to figure it out. It
probably took you a lot less to figure it out.
When is the first time you watch Party because you
guys have some of the same dimensions in terms of size.
When's the first time you watched him. I'm sure it
(33:24):
was years before me and went, oh, yeah, this works.
This is a franchise guy.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
No, he really wasn't. I mean, when when he's you know,
got his first start, you know, midway through his rookie year,
after Trey Lance goes out and grapp Low goes out,
you know, and then all of a sudden, here's the
basically the third string guy, mister coming in. He I mean,
I could tell the moment I saw the first half
of the first game that he played, I'm like, okay, Like,
(33:51):
this guy is in command of the offense. This guy's
in and out of the huddle. He's controlling the line
of scrimmage right, the shifts, the motions, all the things
that that offense requires in a field general to be
able to coordinate. Oh man, he's got incredible rhythm. He
throws with a great base. He's very calm, he's very poised. Right,
nothing seems to shake him, you know. So, like all
those things I pick up on right away, and then
(34:15):
it's like, Okay, where the heck did this guy come from?
You know? And then you start looking at it and
you're like, Okay, this makes perfect sense. Here's a guy
who started almost fifty games in college.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
He played at a school where ninety percent of the
time when they stepped on the field, they were the underdogs.
Oh yeah, right, yeah, Like they weren't winning any beauty contest,
they weren't winning the pregame competitions, and they were having
to kind of gut it out. Right, he had he
played in a bunch of close games, a bunch of
really competitive games Like that mold you, right, That's then
(34:46):
who you become, That becomes what you're used to. Right.
So then all of a sudden, these big time situations,
going into moments where people are doubting you or you're
playing against people that are supposed to be better than you,
Like that doesn't phaze you anymore, Right, So, like so
much of playing this position at the highest level in
the NFL is about confidence. It's about belief, it's about faith,
(35:10):
and the guys that are really good at it, there's
just an unwavering faith and confidence no matter what the situation,
no matter how who's hurt around them or what circumstances
around them might lead others to say that, hey, they're
not going to be able to get it done. You
embrace that, like you just play with this constant chip
on your shoulder in this edge that leads you to
(35:33):
be successful.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
By the way, when Joe Burrow this week, I don't
know if we still have it, there was a piece
of video and we'll wrap it up with this. Burrow
is seen after the game walking in full uniform. Here
it is it's like TMZ stuff. I'm going to go
talk with the coach because they start zering three. And
you know it's funny. Tony Gonzalez once told me he
(35:56):
wasn't comfortable early in his career doing stuff like that,
and I think that that's when Zach Taylor and you
are not even You're just going right to a secret meeting.
What does that tell you? And did you ever have
to do that, But what does that tell you?
Speaker 4 (36:15):
That tells me they have a great relationship and that
they trust in one another to be able to voice
their opinions and their concerns, maybe even vent a little bit.
Like look, Sean Payton was was my guide Event two
at times, and I was his guide Event two at times.
It's great when you have that type of relationship with
(36:37):
your head coach and play caller. Sean and I had
tons of moments.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
Like that early on.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
As we I say, we like we were trying to
build the foundation for that team, and Seawan was including
me in those conversations and I really really appreciated that
because it empowered me and equipped me in a lot
of ways. And I see them doing that the exact
same way. I mean that that that moment right there
(37:01):
looks so familiar to me because there are things that
coming out of a game. You know, obviously emotions are
running high. Hey, they didn't expect to start off zero
and three, you know, lose on Monday night football, you know,
you know, to to kind of an upstart commander's team,
you know. So like to me, that just shows hey,
good relationship, good good lines of communication. I think they're
(37:23):
going to be fine as a result.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, I gotta say one more thing becausehean really you know,
he got a little heat in Denver because he would
call Russell Wilson out and stuff. Did you did you
and Sean ever have a bad day? Like it got
really sideways one?
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Well, I do remember, I mean I wouldn't say like
I do remember at one point, especially early on, when
I say, when Sean was building a program, right six
seven eight, you know, it was we had tough physical practices.
I mean there during the week, during the week of practice, Now,
(38:02):
nobody hardly puts pads on, right, but like we go
full pads two three days a week, you know, leading
up to a game on Sundays. That was a very
common thing. So a little bit of the old school
Bill Parcells mindset, and he was really trying to create
a mindset and a mentality there. And I remember one
practice where, man, I just felt like the team was
(38:24):
beat up, right, guys needed a break. And and sure enough,
here we are, full padded practice and I'm looking at
the schedule. I'm like, man, I just I don't know
if guys are going to buy into this, you know,
on a daylight today, and so We got together as
a group of captains, all the captains together, and like,
all right, guys, what are we going to do? Like
this is our team, you know. And Sean would always say, look,
(38:46):
the best teams at some point, the leaders on the
team take control of the team. Right, You're not taking
instructions from the coaches, You're taking instructions from the from
the leaders on the team. And so I was like,
all right, this is what he was talking about. This
is this moment, right, this is where we got we
got to call the shots. So we get together as
a group and it's like, hey, we're not going out
in pads. It was kind of like I kind of
had the final saying it, you know. Yeah, I was like,
(39:08):
we're not going out in pads, all right, go out
in shells and just tell everybody, man, we better be
flying around like no excuses. Don't don't give them an
excuse to say we weren't ready for Sunday, because we weren't.
You know, we weren't prepared. We weren't flying around. So
we show we get out there and everybody's all amped up, like,
you know, we're bucking the system, like we're making the call.
We get out there and shells, and literally like within
(39:31):
fifteen seconds, everybody comes high tailing it back in from
the field and they're like, hey, we have to put
pads on. Sean's going ballistic out there, you know. So
we very quickly put pads on and went back out
and just got out word done and whatever. We were
all scared as show.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
But but no, that was that was probably an early
heated exchange, you know where it was like you thought
you were doing something good for the team and uh
it backfired a little bit.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, go a little hot with Sean.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I love all the storytelling, Drew, real pleasure. We're going
to try to bring on Drew as regularly as we can.
Twenty year is going to be a first ballot guy. Really,
I thought there you just the storytelling was great, man.
I love this. I can't wait for more of it,
and I appreciate you taking twenty minutes to your day
first man. Thank you, absolutely, thanks cav you bet Drew
Brees
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sportsradio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio or FSR.
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
(00:23):
on Fox Sports Radio. Oh what a show we have today.
It's Thursday Cowboys Giants tonight, live in Los Angeles. It's
the Herd. Wherever you may be and however you may
be watching or listening. One hour from now, Greg Cosell,
if you bet football, play fantasy football, want to get
(00:43):
smarter at football? Greg Cosel in one hour from now. Jmac,
I'm so excited to do today's show. Drew Breese stops
by as well.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Listen to me.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I was singing about this. Dallas is gonna win tonight.
Lock it up, Yes, sir, so, Dallas is gonna win
tonight because on these Thursday night games, just take the
better quarterback. Dak Is twelve and two against the Giants,
Daniel Jones one and seven against Dallas, Aaron Rodgers won
big on Thursday night. Josh Allen one big on Thursday Night.
(01:20):
Dak's gonna win. I don't know. I think it's a
touchdown game. Dak's gonna win tonight. You don't have time
to do a lot of prep for Thursday night. Not
a lot of surprises, not a lot of zig zag.
Best quarterbacks gonna win the game. I'm gonna take Dak
and the Cowboys to win by a touchdown, and you know,
but it's interesting. They may look even really good winning.
I'm gonna go like twenty four to thirteen ce d Lamb.
(01:42):
Maybe maybe I have a couple tuddies. I think Micah
Parson's gonna have a couple sacks. And the defense eh,
no movement up front. That's because the Giants don't have
munch of a run game. But don't let it cloud
the fact that the last five playoff teams Dallas's face,
they're one and four Baltimore, Buffalo, Green Bay, Detroit, Miami.
(02:04):
They're one and four in a bad call against the
Lions from being zero to five and been routed in
most of them. So don't let don't let the win tonight.
And they're gonna win to I don't let it freak
you out. So I thought before, you know, I do
about four times during the season I do a Super
Bowl bubble, and so let's just look, we're this is
week four, the start of week four, and this is
(02:25):
currently my Super Bowl bubble for the radio audience. I
have six teams, seven teams inside the bubble. Their favorites
Kansas City, Buffalo, Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit. Yeah, I buy
the Vikings, Baltimore, San Francisco. I have the Jets, the Seahawks,
and the Philadelphia I'm letting them lean on the fence
(02:46):
at this ranch. I'm letting them lean on the fence.
I may let them into the property. Dallas. I don't
even have the Saints on this. And they crushed Dallas
in Dallas, blew them out right, So this is Dallas.
Isn't he even allowed into the county lines here, so
we're not even I don't even think they're close. And
I've said this before. I think it used to be
in the NFL, that quirky and weird, you know, Jerry Glanville,
(03:10):
a little over the top guy, Dennis Green, I think
a quirky and different and unique Sam wish you can
get Super Bowls, you can win a division, you can
win a lot of games. You I think the NFL
has gotten smarter, more sophisticated, more business like, more, more analytics.
Though it's not baseball where it's made the game boring.
(03:32):
But I think when the NFL family owned and operated,
that used to be like prideful. Hey we're family owned
and operated. That's for a deli. I don't think that works.
I think you have to be staying cronky and be
the biggest residential and commercial real estate owner in America,
maybe the world. That's that's what you need. Now, family
(03:54):
owned and operated is like the Raiders, like, I don't know,
there's a does that feel robust dynamic? I've said the
NFL allowed quirky, and this happens all the time in
a lot of businesses. Quirky and weird is okay. In
Hollywood that used to play and now it's like The
(04:15):
Avengers Part nine, it's basically the independent film. Yeah, finance
it yourself with your money. And I think that's why
Hollywood has slowed down. It's like big streamers and big
movies and we're not making anything else. And I think
quirky and weird and highly emotional, and I think that stuff.
(04:35):
It doesn't it's cute, but it just doesn't win enough.
And I think that's what the Lakers have become, and
I think it's what the Cowboys have become. Family owned
businesses and this is not a family owned business league
as much. It's the biggest and the richest that are winning.
And I look at today, if you look at the
schedule for Dallas, let's be honest, it only gets tougher.
(04:56):
This is the last layup I thought Pittsburgh would be. Yeah,
I was wrong about They're going to go four and
oh so at Pittsburgh against the league's best defense. Oh
that it's the Lions. And then it's at San Francisco
and at Atlanta, and here's Philly and c J. Stroud
and oh crap, Jayden Daniels is good. Oh Joe Burrow,
this is the last layup. Cleveland was a layup. You
(05:20):
thought the Saints would be a layup, got blown out,
Baltimore wasn't lost. And then they have the Giants DAK
twelve and two. So, and what's funny is Dallas has
always held themselves because of their regular season wins as
sort of above the dysfunctional guys, you know, the losers.
(05:40):
But Dallas has not won multiple playoff games in twenty
nine years. So this morning I went and looked at
the dysfunctional teams over twenty nine years. In the Cowboys
over twenty nine years. Let's take the Chicago Bears last
twenty nine seasons. They actually have two conference championship appearances.
(06:00):
The Cowboys have none. Okay, okay. What about the Jaguars, Well,
they actually have eight playoff wins the Cowboys have five,
and twenty nine years, they have three conference championships appearances. Oh,
the Cowboys have none. Okay, okay, but what about the
Carolina Panthers. Those guys are a mess. That's a circus. Hey, hey,
(06:24):
they have almost double the playoff wins and four conference
championship appearances. The Cowboys have none. All right, all right, okay,
you win the argument, Colin. Give me the Raiders. Oh
they have two conference championship appearances and almost the same
number of playoff wins. Dallas, I know you look down
(06:46):
at them last twenty nine years. You are them, that's
what you are. So don't go crazy with the win tonight.
I'll go twenty four to thirteen Cowboys, Micah sack Ceedee Lamb,
big Night, Dak, you know, doing Dak's thing in a
standalone game against the Giants. But Micah Parson says he's
(07:10):
tired of getting beat badly by good teams.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
I feel like it's a competitive At some point, you
gotta be prideful enough to say, hey.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Us, I'm not going to low this to happen to me.
Like I just feel like some people would just allown
them to keep getting smacked in the.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Face, Like when are you gonna stand up?
Speaker 1 (07:31):
All right? So, unfortunately many of you are misguided and
think I don't like Aaron Rodgers. But I did have
them leaning on the fence in the Super Bowl bubble,
not quite in the ranch, but pet and the horses
right right, put some carrots over the fence. The dogs
(07:52):
are barking at you, Dallas. I don't even I don't
even let them down the driveway. But Aaron Rodgers said
something that's important, and it's really important because Aaron has
experience with this and the Jets have none. And Aaron
talks about and he's totally right, and this is his
real value. By the way, this is where Aaron Rodgers
(08:12):
is really valuable to the Jets. Aaron Rodgers was important
to the Packers, but Jordan Love, Malik, Willis, Brett Faarr
Packards win a lot of games regardless. This is where
Aaron's really important, not about the losing. It's now that
the Jets are winning, how to handle it.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I go back to this quote a lot. But Mike
McCarthy said our biggest, our biggest struggle is going to
be handling success back in two thousand and six in
Green Bay, and there's a lot to that. I think,
you know, when it's easier when you're kind of getting
kicked in the teeth to kind of come together. It's
us against the world, it's us against the big bad
media who's saying how bad we are. You know, we
(08:52):
can kind of come together. But can you still come
together and have the same approach when everybody's kind of
starting to sing your praises a little bit? I think
that's the mark of a great team is can you
handle the success part with the same focus, the same mentality,
the same mindset, the same energy when you're starting to
get on a little bit.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
Of a role.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Aaron's wright and this is his real value because Aaron
is a winner and the Jets aren't. And Jet fans
and Jets media, but mostly their fans, they're crazy town.
I mean, the Cowboys win twelve games every regular season, right,
three straight years, twelve twelve twelve real success until like January,
(09:34):
but real success. And when Dallas Cowboy fans were pulled
in the athletic recently, sixty percent said we have no
chance to win a Super Bowl. The New York Jets
beat a rookie head coach to Kobe Brissett at home
this past Thursday, and the Mayor of New York, you know,
if he wasn't being indicted, would have thrown a ticker
(09:55):
tape parade. They're nuts, they're crazy. Before the season and
I said the Jets are a nine to ten win team,
Buffalo wins the division, they'll battle Miami to the very
end for a playoff spot. I feel the exact same,
the exact same today. But if you go back to
that Patriots game and Aaron talks about containing a restraining yourself,
(10:15):
containing yourself right when you're winning, Robert Sala, the head coach,
was so enthusiastic in the second quarter, just with a
lead over the Patriots, Aaron Rodgers. You remember the video
had to go bro bro Bro, chill out. It's the Patriot.
It's the second quarter. It's just or in the middle
(10:35):
of the game. We're not the halftime yet. So maybe
it's because the Jets share a city with the Giants
who have four trophies, or their primary rival is the
Patriots and they have six trophies. So maybe that Thursday
night win, A winning record's a big deal. I mean,
if you never had any money and you want to
scratch off ticket for fifteen hundred bucks, it would be
(10:56):
a big deal. If you're forty four years old, the
guy you've never really really had a serious girlfriend and
you have a great date, it is a big deal.
The Giant success, the Patriot success. But when I look
at Aaron, this is Aaron's real value. I mean, I
looked this up this morning. I still can't believe the
(11:20):
Jets haven't won the division in twenty two years. This
is the NFL. The Lions got to a conference championship
last year. The Jaguars have been to three of those things,
right in twenty nine years. Jets haven't won a division
in twenty two years. So when Aaron says, chill relax.
(11:40):
It was a little condescending in Green Bay because they
had more continuity and a better coach and more franchise momentum.
But when Aaron says R E. Lax in New York,
he's absolutely, inarguably correct. This team, this head the coach
was freaking out with a lead on Thursday over Jacoby Brissett,
(12:03):
a team in New England that we had said before
the season started, we'll have the number one pick next year.
He's right on that, and that's his real value, all right.
So yesterday on the show, we were talking about something.
J Mack brought this up, one of his very decisive
his wisdom. We were talking about quarterback plays and how
(12:27):
I if it all matters in life for quarterbacks. I
don't care about your talent, your resume. What I care
about a minute forty five left fourth quarter, you trail
on the road one time out? Who would you take
one through ten? So I'm going to do that next
And by the way, many of them are the best
(12:49):
quarterbacks in the league. But that's the difference. I don't
care about your resume. I don't care about all that stuff.
Buck forty five one time out, trail by four on
the road, gotta get it into the end zone. Not
interested in field goals? Okay, so I'll do that next.
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
(13:11):
and Noone Eastern, non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app. So J Mack
created this yesterday. By the way, you're entering the Noble
Zone sponsored by Credible Great Rates, None of the bull
Jay Max started this yesterday when he talked about we
were talking about quarterbacks, and I said, you know, a
minute forty five left, you trail your on the road.
(13:33):
Field goal doesn't win it one time out? Who would
you take Gardner Minshew or Deshaun Watson? And I would
say I would take Gardner Minshew today. Would you take
Baker Mayfield or Trevor Lawrence? I would take Baker Mayfield today.
I don't care about your contract, your resume, your draft status.
I don't care right now. I'd take Sam Darnold from
what I've seen the first three weeks over a lot
(13:54):
of quarterbacks who are viewed as better quarterbacks. And it's
almost how you judge friends. A friend will help you move,
A great friend will help you move. A body I
lived in Vegas. I'm not going to get into it.
So there's a difference, and I judge it based on crisis.
(14:21):
The all time greats, Joe Montana, Brady Elway all did
one thing in common, some big, some small, some big arms,
some mobile, one thing in common. Brady Mahomes, Lway great
in crisis. A lot of guys are talented, they're not
great in crisis. And so my top ten quarterbacks based
(14:41):
on this premise, because that's what I'm paying for. I'm
not paying for your resume. Jalen Hurts got a great resume.
It turns them all over too much. Can I trust him?
And now he lost a great center and now he
didn't have aj Brown. Would I trust him today in
a drive? Not really? With Nick Serry, Okay, so here
we go the king on this, He's the l Way.
(15:05):
He is the Brady of his generation. It's Mahomes. Let's
not argue it. That forty four yard game time drive
with thirteen seconds left is the greatest last second, limited
time scarcity drive in the history of football. And it
really is defining. I mean, he's really especially in the
early years when he had a high powered offense. I
mean he trailed playoff games by two touchdowns. Nobody cared.
(15:28):
Didn't change the way you attacked him. Number two, and
I think his superpower is if you got to pick
up yards down the field, best arm in the league,
Josh Allen, also great scrambling. I think mobility matters a
lot in that minute forty five go to Mahomes' Super
Bowl games. Mobility matters in these spots because stuff breaks
(15:48):
down sometimes the Steve Spagnola's going to bring the house.
Kirk Cousins, I love him. I don't get any mobility
with him. Josh Allen too. Joe Burrow, I get just
enough more mobility. And I also think he got to
a Super Bowl with road wins with an atrocious offensive
line and was running for his life. That to me
defined Burrow as less talent than maybe Mahomes, less physical
(16:13):
wow than Alan, but his ability to win with bad
old lines. And we don't know if Zach Taylor can
coach puts him at three, one spot ahead of a
guy that doesn't give me the mobility of Burrow, Matt Stafford.
But Stafford leads all quarterbacks currently playing with thirty six
fourth quarter comebacks. He had another one Sunday. This is
his superpower is like Mahomes arm angles, throw it from
(16:37):
any platform. I don't get mobility, and if the pocket collapses,
he's in trouble. But I put him four. I put
Aaron Rodgers justin Knox below because now Aaron is good.
But I've never thought he's as great trailing as an
l Way, Mahomes Brady or a Matt Stafford. I will
say though, in the last two years, half his wins
(16:57):
our game winning drive, so he's gotten better at it.
A number six and now it gets tricky because I
feel strongly about the first five, probably CJ. Stroud. Now,
I don't have a big resume to work with, and
he's had a couple stinkers. These young quarterbacks Minnesota game,
they have stinkers. They go sideways fast for these young quarterbacks.
Seventy five yard game winning drive forty seconds against the
(17:20):
Bucks like it's impressive. I'm sorry. Greg Cosell talks about
it this week. Last week, the kids just different. I
would say number seven. Again, I don't have a huge resume,
but I love Jordan Love. He had three game winning
drives last year in his first full season as a starter,
and in the playoffs, his first first time go to
the playoffs. He had a ninety nine passer rating and
(17:43):
sixty seven percent completion ratio with the youngest offensive team,
youngest roster since the nineteen seventy Buffalo Bills in the playoffs.
I know what's young, but between Lafleur, the youth, his mobility.
Now he's gonna have again. He's gonna throw some picks.
He's more far than Aaron Rodgers. He's got some gunslinger
in him, but I would put him seven. I will
tell you this is where brought Purty won me over
(18:05):
last week. Last week was a proving point, no Christian McCaffrey,
no Debo, no Kittle against Stafford and McVeigh. He didn't
win the game, but he won me over. I was like, Wow.
And by the way, brock Purty highest fourth quarter passer
rating in league history. That's something, folks, I don't know
if it's kase Shanahant. That's the highest fourth quarter passer
(18:27):
rating in the history of the league. I know, I
know he hasn't played a lot. He's played enough to
know some of that's relevant. Number nine. I may criticize Dak,
but he was three to zero and one score games
last year. Now they get their teeth kicked in about
four times a year. In the blowouts. He can be ugly,
but in close games, Dak's a grown up. Dak generally
(18:49):
throws to the right guy. I don't think he has
the biggest arm. He didn't move around like Kyler Murray.
But I just trust the IQ, the EQ. You know,
the intangibles for Dak better than the tangibles. But in tangibles,
Eli Manning was like that. I didn't love Eli. I
loved them in a minute forty to go. I loved
him in Super Bowls. Dak's got some of that quality.
(19:10):
I always trust Dak in tight spots. His limitations aren't
his ability to maneuver. Late number ten by a nose,
Lamar Jackson over Jared Goff. Goff gives me no mobility.
If the pocket breaks down, you're done.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Now.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Lamar hasn't been as successful as you think he has late,
but it should be noted in the last two minutes
of his career, Lamar is a one twenty passer rating.
I hate to break it to you. He's good there now.
I do not think. I do not think he throws
from the pocket as well as an Aaron or a
Stafford or a Mahomes, and sometimes not as good as Dak,
(19:43):
but I love his ability to just make stuff up.
So I do give Josh Allen improvisation. Lamar Jackson, it
does matter. Jared Goff would be eleven that you get
into the Jalen hurt stuff, but that these are the
These are the guys. I don't care about resume of
playoff appearance. I don't care who do you trust on
(20:07):
the road. Need a tuddy minute forty five one time
out and facing a decent defense. I'm not saying you're
facing Spags and the Chiefs, but you're facing a defense
that can create a pass rush. This is and I
will say this with Aaron and Stafford, they may not
move as well, but they are so good pre snap
that they can alleviate stuff. Oras Jared Goff, I don't
(20:28):
think moves as well as those two, and I don't
think he's as good pre snap. So there's my top ten,
and yes I have pretty and Deck in there. So again,
if this is not about arm, it's not about size,
it's not about it's just who do I trust and
what you'll see with these ten guys. You mostly get
grown ups. There's ten for ten grown ups. Guys that
(20:50):
love football, live football, obsessed by football, all in on football,
not distracted by anything else. A lot of grown ups here.
And I know Aaron in the offseason goes to Egypt,
but in the season, Aaron's buttoned up in the season.
And that's what I really You know, you want to
go to Costa Rican, hang out for a month and disappear.
I'm I'm not going to spend a lot of time.
I don't care about that stuff, not that much. All right,
(21:11):
Jay mc anything jump out at you. I went over
to Pro Football Reference.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I think you'd be surprised which quarterback led the NFL
last year in game winning drives in the fourth quarter
overtime and he is not in your top ten and
you did not mention him once.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Who is it? Geno Smith topping.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts who were tied at four.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
But if I said to you, I just said to you,
top of mind. There you give me the last great
Gino road fourth quarter comeback? Anything popp into your head,
that's it. Yeah, So you again, stats and you know
it's one thing at home to be beat in Arizona.
What Gino doesn't come top of mind is now, I
will say Gino is a very accurate quarterback. We just
(21:57):
have to get over this that dude stands in the
pocket and throws seventy three percent darts. I've been harder
on Gino because I do think there's a ceiling with him,
and and and so I didn't mention him.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I would have pretty a little higher.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I would have Stafford probably at two. When I showed
this to the guys on the facility, they all went
he Stafford's one a after Mahame.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Stafford's abandoned.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
He's so good. Come on. Be sure to catch live
editions of the Herd weekdays and noonon Easter. Not a
em Pacific. Well, he was in the grind of the
NFL for twenty seasons, fifteen with the Saints, five with
the Chargers. Thirteen time Pro Bowler. He's going to be
eligible for the Hall of Fame in twenty twenty six,
and he'll be a first ballot guy still whole. I'm
just looking at his notable NFL records, seven times leading
(22:45):
the NFL in passing yards, and I want to bring
on Drew Brees because that's interesting when you you know,
not that you didn't throw deep a lot, but to
lead the NFL in passing yards. You know, we tend
to think Marino and mahall the deep, and that's not
what the league is. The league is pre snap. And
I was talking to a GM last night and he said, oh,
(23:09):
everybody gives talks Brady and Manning. He goes. When I
looked at tape, what Drew Brees did pre snap, he
and Peyton was music. It was it was Broadway they
were making. And I think about that, Drew, because we
rush everybody now, all these quarterbacks. If you're not good
by your second Thanksgiving, half the guys in the room
(23:29):
are raising their hands when you're not there, saying draft
a new quarterback. You got so good at the offensive line,
and this GM was like, there's never been anybody better
than Breeze at this at the line, it was different
than everybody. How long did it take you? As I
watched Jayden, Daniels and bow Nicks before literally Drew, you
had seen everything and you were manipulating them. They weren't
(23:53):
manipulating you.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
Look, that's a great question. I when I played it
pretty university, you know, we ran the spread offense a
lot of I wasn't responsible for changing any protections or
doing anything like that. Everything that we we had, we're
built in hots. You know. You just knew when you
had to get rid of the ball. You knew when
there was a guy coming free, and then that adjust
(24:17):
might adjust the clock in your head. When I got
to the NFL, it was very much the same way
in my first five years with the San Diego Chargers.
I wasn't responsible for mike IDs, I wasn't responsible for protections.
I was just responsible to get the ball out on
time in rhythm. Every route concept had a progression, and
I had to know and understand when I was going
(24:40):
to be hot, in other words, when there was going
to be a free rusher that was unblocked, you know,
according to what the protection scheme was. And then I
just had to know I had to get the ball out.
Maybe there was a site adjustment, that it was made
by a receiver that we had to be on the
same page when I got to New Orleans. Sean Payton's
offense required the order back to or put the quarterback
(25:02):
in a position where, hey, it's necessary for you now
to take on the responsibility of calling out you know
who who the mic linebacker is or who the linebacker
is that the offensive line is now responsible for. Right.
Typically in a standard four down, defensive lineman front the line,
your five linemen of irresponsible for those four plus one.
(25:23):
More so, it was your job to identify who that
fifth guy was that we're responsible for, depending on the
run play. If it was a run play, Hey, whoever
I'm miking, that might be who you're going to It
might be meaning that I'm idea in this guy, and
then you're going to block the guy to the left.
There was all these different adjustments then that would happen
on third down, where you know, now the defense is
(25:46):
going to play a bunch of different fronts, and you
have protection calls that will all of a sudden send
four linemen to the right, or all five linemen to
the right, or you know, three linemen to the right,
and now the back's going to step up and he's
going to take whoever's in the aid. Right. So you
just have all these different calls based on you know,
who you're identifying and what type of pressure is coming.
(26:06):
And that responsibility became more and more as I got
into my career. But honestly, I wouldn't have it any
other way because I wanted to be in control of
those things. I wanted to be in a position where
I was trying to put our lineman in the best
matchup positions to be able to, you know, take their
guys and protect. I didn't want Alvin Kamara to have
(26:28):
to block you know, a two hundred and fifty pound
linebacker or even a big outside linebacker, a defensive end
like I would try to get him out in the
route as much as possible. So if I could make
a different declaration that would allow Alvin Kamara to free release, well,
guess what, that's that's better for his longevity. It's also
better for me because it gives me, you know, another
(26:50):
weapon in the secondary. So all these things were a progression.
I certainly didn't start off that way year one, year two,
not even until year six, an eight from wow wow.
So yeah, it took some time.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, and we're not patient like that anymore. If bo
Nicks isn't good by Thanksgiving next year. And what's interesting
is Shawn's intense. So I get to know Sean really
well when he worked here, and I loved him dinner
with Sean Payton's story time and he's intense. Now, everybody
coaches different. Matt Lafleur doesn't feel as intense. Sean Payton
feels more intense. So if I said, hey, bo Nicks,
Drew Brees is going to give you a one piece
(27:24):
of advice for Shawn's personality, he's intellect You're smiling. What
is the piece of advice you would give bow Nicks?
Because Sean can get hot, Sean's going to be demanding you.
Your personality can handle it. Is there a piece of
advice you'd give bo Nicks?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Yeah, he just as demanding right back to him. Okay,
you know I Sean. Sean likes that. Sean. Sean wants
to see you confident and sure you know everything. Obviously,
Sean and I got to a play a place with
our relationship where it was almost like we could finish
each other's soon, and says, I knew exactly what he
(28:01):
was thinking before he called to play. We had just
rehearsed it so much, we had talked about it so
much throughout the course of the week that you know,
I knew the minute we crossed the fifty yard line,
this was the play call coming out of his mouth.
Minute or you know, we're inside the red zone. This
is the play we're running. The minute they go to
this defense. He wants this or that pressure, he wants
this right and it stuff that we've talked about and
rehearsed together night before the game. We're dot nicol sheet,
(28:23):
here's my favorite play, Sean. He's telling me his favorite plays. Right.
We're just again rehearsing it over and over so that
we can just be as if you know, kind of
one you know, one mind out there together. But look
there there of course there were moments where you know, man,
I'm going to make a mistake, and we got to
the point where, man, he knows that he knows that
I knew that I made the mistake, righted the yelling
(28:45):
that's creaming at me. But for a young quarterback who's
trying to really teach and coach and kind of get
on the same page with him, there's probably going to
be a lot more of that, you know, and he'll
be pretty firm with you at times. And I think
what he loves to see and I think a lot
of this came from Parcels. You know, Parcels would be
very demanding on his assistant coaches, right, and Parcels wanted
(29:06):
those coaches that have the same type of you know,
kind of intensity and confidence coming right back at him.
So I think Sean loves that coming back from the quarterback.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
So Aaron Rodgers said something I thought was really smart.
And Aaron's won a lot of football games, and the
Jets have it. And Aaron said, and I've heard this before,
but Aaron was very eloquent. He said, you know, everybody
kind of acts the same way. When they lose, they're pissed,
they work harder, they galvanize. But it's different when you win.
Guys splinter off, they get into endorsements, they get into
(29:36):
their fields. That's a whole different boat. San Francisco had
a noisy off season. Travis Kelsey's now dating the world's
most popular. I mean, when you win, the world changes.
So you went like Aaron Rodgers, you went to a loser,
you made him a winner. Go back to the first
because you guys won right out of the shoot. You
and Sean that first year. How did you take a
(29:58):
losing franch ey win in New Orleans. By the way,
they're not going to bed at eight forty five. New
Orleans and New York are not Indianapolis, so that's it's
a port city. There's a lot happening. Go back to
your first year winning twenty three year old teammates. Was
that difficult or challenging.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
There? You have to look at the guys that were
brought in that year. I mean, look here we are
six months post Katrina. You know, the entire city of
New Orleans have been destroyed, devastated, right, I mean there
was nothing to show off about New Orleans for anybody
coming to town, right like this day and age with
you know, recruiting and the way that you're going to
try to wine and dine guys when they come in.
(30:39):
There was no real wining and dining, you know. It was, Hey,
you have to see this for what it is. And
so it's going to take a special type of person
and a special mindset to embrace the challenge that you're
going to face here, but also see the realm of possibility. Right,
Can you share this vision with us? And I certainly did.
I felt like it was a calling for me to
be there. I was coming off of a pretty serious
(31:02):
injury right where I wasn't sure how great a football player,
I was gonna be able to be coming back. I
really did. Sean Payton had a ton of confidence to me,
Mickey Loomis, that entire organization a ton of confidence in me,
maybe more so than I did myself at the time.
And you look at the rest of the free agents
that were brought in that year as well. It's not
like everybody was banging down the door to get these guys,
you know, it was it was a little bit of
(31:23):
a joke. We had one of our coaches, Joe Vitt,
called that group and O six the castaways. It was
like nobody else wanted you, will take you, you know,
because look, you're tough guys, You're the right type of mindset,
Like you share the vision. You see what we can
accomplish here. You know it's going to be a difficult journey,
but you're not going to shy away from that. You're
not afraid of that. And like we needed that mentality,
(31:44):
We needed those types of guys like that's what it
was going to take, and that that first season was
obviously very magical. I mean, we were not as talented
a team as the teams that we stepped on the
field with me and we were gritty, we were tough,
and we had the city on our shoulders, you know,
(32:05):
right there beside us, feeling like we had so much
more to play for than everybody else. And that's really
what I think that first season was about. But it
was also about what helped create the foundation for what
I think the New Orleans Saints became in the Sean
Payton era. And that's that was what we prided ourselves on.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
So because you went to Iowa State, you know, you
went to Purdue not a football power. In fact, when
you went there, before you got there, it was mostly basketball.
The boiler Makers had the basketball gen KTI programs, that
kind of stuff. And so in State of Texas, you know,
Drew's not six ' four, you know, you know the game,
(32:42):
and so you probably have a soft spot for Brock Purty.
I watched them at college and the first time, Like so,
he gets drafted at the end whatever I mean, Outside
of Kurt Warner Romo, these guys get drafted late, maybe
Mark Brunell, most guys get you know, good guys get
drafted first, second, third, whatever. And then all of a
sudden he starts winning. And I won't give him any
credit I'm like, well, let's get Shanahan. It's a bunch
(33:04):
of Hall of Fame guys. And then slowly but surely,
you're like, he's pretty he's pretty good. And uh So
it took me a while to figure it out. It
probably took you a lot less to figure it out.
When is the first time you watch Party because you
guys have some of the same dimensions in terms of size.
When's the first time you watched him. I'm sure it
(33:24):
was years before me and went, oh, yeah, this works.
This is a franchise guy.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
No, he really wasn't. I mean, when when he's you know,
got his first start, you know, midway through his rookie year,
after Trey Lance goes out and grapp Low goes out,
you know, and then all of a sudden, here's the
basically the third string guy, mister coming in. He I mean,
I could tell the moment I saw the first half
of the first game that he played, I'm like, okay, Like,
(33:51):
this guy is in command of the offense. This guy's
in and out of the huddle. He's controlling the line
of scrimmage right, the shifts, the motions, all the things
that that offense requires in a field general to be
able to coordinate. Oh man, he's got incredible rhythm. He
throws with a great base. He's very calm, he's very poised. Right,
nothing seems to shake him, you know. So, like all
those things I pick up on right away, and then
(34:15):
it's like, Okay, where the heck did this guy come from?
You know? And then you start looking at it and
you're like, Okay, this makes perfect sense. Here's a guy
who started almost fifty games in college.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
He played at a school where ninety percent of the
time when they stepped on the field, they were the underdogs.
Oh yeah, right, yeah, Like they weren't winning any beauty contest,
they weren't winning the pregame competitions, and they were having
to kind of gut it out. Right, he had he
played in a bunch of close games, a bunch of
really competitive games Like that mold you, right, That's then
(34:46):
who you become, That becomes what you're used to. Right.
So then all of a sudden, these big time situations,
going into moments where people are doubting you or you're
playing against people that are supposed to be better than you,
Like that doesn't phaze you anymore, Right, So, like so
much of playing this position at the highest level in
the NFL is about confidence. It's about belief, it's about faith,
(35:10):
and the guys that are really good at it, there's
just an unwavering faith and confidence no matter what the situation,
no matter how who's hurt around them or what circumstances
around them might lead others to say that, hey, they're
not going to be able to get it done. You
embrace that, like you just play with this constant chip
on your shoulder in this edge that leads you to
(35:33):
be successful.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
By the way, when Joe Burrow this week, I don't
know if we still have it, there was a piece
of video and we'll wrap it up with this. Burrow
is seen after the game walking in full uniform. Here
it is it's like TMZ stuff. I'm going to go
talk with the coach because they start zering three. And
you know it's funny. Tony Gonzalez once told me he
(35:56):
wasn't comfortable early in his career doing stuff like that,
and I think that that's when Zach Taylor and you
are not even You're just going right to a secret meeting.
What does that tell you? And did you ever have
to do that, But what does that tell you?
Speaker 4 (36:15):
That tells me they have a great relationship and that
they trust in one another to be able to voice
their opinions and their concerns, maybe even vent a little bit.
Like look, Sean Payton was was my guide Event two
at times, and I was his guide Event two at times.
It's great when you have that type of relationship with
(36:37):
your head coach and play caller. Sean and I had
tons of moments.
Speaker 5 (36:40):
Like that early on.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
As we I say, we like we were trying to
build the foundation for that team, and Seawan was including
me in those conversations and I really really appreciated that
because it empowered me and equipped me in a lot
of ways. And I see them doing that the exact
same way. I mean that that that moment right there
(37:01):
looks so familiar to me because there are things that
coming out of a game. You know, obviously emotions are
running high. Hey, they didn't expect to start off zero
and three, you know, lose on Monday night football, you know,
you know, to to kind of an upstart commander's team,
you know. So like to me, that just shows hey,
good relationship, good good lines of communication. I think they're
(37:23):
going to be fine as a result.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, I gotta say one more thing becausehean really you know,
he got a little heat in Denver because he would
call Russell Wilson out and stuff. Did you did you
and Sean ever have a bad day? Like it got
really sideways one?
Speaker 4 (37:40):
Well, I do remember, I mean I wouldn't say like
I do remember at one point, especially early on, when
I say, when Sean was building a program, right six
seven eight, you know, it was we had tough physical practices.
I mean there during the week, during the week of practice, Now,
(38:02):
nobody hardly puts pads on, right, but like we go
full pads two three days a week, you know, leading
up to a game on Sundays. That was a very
common thing. So a little bit of the old school
Bill Parcells mindset, and he was really trying to create
a mindset and a mentality there. And I remember one
practice where, man, I just felt like the team was
(38:24):
beat up, right, guys needed a break. And and sure enough,
here we are, full padded practice and I'm looking at
the schedule. I'm like, man, I just I don't know
if guys are going to buy into this, you know,
on a daylight today, and so We got together as
a group of captains, all the captains together, and like,
all right, guys, what are we going to do? Like
this is our team, you know. And Sean would always say, look,
(38:46):
the best teams at some point, the leaders on the
team take control of the team. Right, You're not taking
instructions from the coaches, You're taking instructions from the from
the leaders on the team. And so I was like,
all right, this is what he was talking about. This
is this moment, right, this is where we got we
got to call the shots. So we get together as
a group and it's like, hey, we're not going out
in pads. It was kind of like I kind of
had the final saying it, you know. Yeah, I was like,
(39:08):
we're not going out in pads, all right, go out
in shells and just tell everybody, man, we better be
flying around like no excuses. Don't don't give them an
excuse to say we weren't ready for Sunday, because we weren't.
You know, we weren't prepared. We weren't flying around. So
we show we get out there and everybody's all amped up, like,
you know, we're bucking the system, like we're making the call.
We get out there and shells, and literally like within
(39:31):
fifteen seconds, everybody comes high tailing it back in from
the field and they're like, hey, we have to put
pads on. Sean's going ballistic out there, you know. So
we very quickly put pads on and went back out
and just got out word done and whatever. We were
all scared as show.
Speaker 5 (39:47):
But but no, that was that was probably an early
heated exchange, you know where it was like you thought
you were doing something good for the team and uh
it backfired a little bit.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, go a little hot with Sean.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I love all the storytelling, Drew, real pleasure. We're going
to try to bring on Drew as regularly as we can.
Twenty year is going to be a first ballot guy. Really,
I thought there you just the storytelling was great, man.
I love this. I can't wait for more of it,
and I appreciate you taking twenty minutes to your day
first man. Thank you, absolutely, thanks cav you bet Drew
Brees
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