Best of The Herd

Colin looks at the first weekend of the NCAA men's basketball tournament and why no Cinderella teams advancing to the Sweet 16 is a good thing for college basketball. He tells you why he was right about 49ers Brock Purdy and wrong about Arkansas head coach John Calipari

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh, it is a Monday. Sixteen teams left in college basketball,
and yeah I got fifteen of them. I don't know
what happened to jmax bracket, but Captain Chalk is omn baby.
Oh wow, Yeah, John Calipari did me wrong Beatino. You

(00:47):
know that was the one I lost on Bill Simmons
one hour from now. There's a new Celtic series on
HBO Max, which the staff's all into. I'm starting it
this week. It's supposed to be great. Colin Wright Colin wrong.
So Jmax spends all year, you know, on this college
basketball stuff. I'm a casual, but I've always believed in

(01:10):
just the committee mostly gets it right, and well, they've
done pretty well, so it's fascinating. The ratings are in
for the first weekend viewership for the first day all
time high. By the way, there are no have nots.
It's all Power conference teams in the sweet sixteen. So

(01:30):
remember the nil. Everybody's terrified with the niil nil is
actually actually great for college basketball because it keeps some
of the better players in college for another year, like
a Zach Edy, and then the big brands can cherry
pick mid major teams that nobody watches on television and

(01:53):
get better faster. Everybody thought the NIL gonna help the
little guy, maybe now made the rich redch Yes, America
likes to watch Duke Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan State, Arizona more
than Drexel, Lipscomb and Wofford. Who knew but college basketball
die hards through the years, and they love the sport

(02:13):
and that's great, and it probably it's a little bit like, Hey,
I bought the iPhone first, or I knew this band
before you did, and I know more about college basketball.
Those days look like they're over. The mid majors may
have an NBA player that Kentucky goes and grabs him,
Arizona goes and grabs him, and so the mid majors listen.
The rest of us. Common people don't watch a lot

(02:35):
of Missouri Valley basketball. I've never said to my wife, honey,
let's go out badally keyante, little Italian romantic dinner, and
she turned me and went, now you, let's stay home
and watch Murray State. Most people don't watch it. They
watch the big brands. And eventually all these upsets they're
ratings killers because you end up with McNee State in
the next game. So people say a lot of things.

(02:58):
I love upsets that people do predictable things. They don't
watch the next game after an upset. So this is why,
by the way, the movies that are flourishing in Hollywood,
big stars stay away from politics, action films. Why are
the oscars dying too much politics? They don't acknowledge Tom
Cruise and they talk about movies nobody watches, stay on

(03:20):
the big brands. This is not Copenhagen. People don't ride
around on bikes all day, have a second lunch, a siesta.
We'll get to it tomorrow. We're busy, we're distracted. You
gotta give us familiar laundry. And so Duke gets a
huge rating. I probably made a mistake in my bracket.
My dark horse was number four, Arizona. I don't know

(03:40):
how long they're gonna last. Lucky Oregon missed a lot
of free throws last night. But Duke elicits a feeling.
Whatever that feeling is outside of the NFL, baseball, hockey, basketball,
college or pro WNBA. Look at the WNBA ratings. Why
Caitlin Clark, Angel Angel Reese is a part of that? Now,

(04:03):
Caitlin's the bigger part. But there's a there's a there's
a villain here, a push and a pull. It's burden magic,
it's coastal and And so to me, folks, we're distracted.
We got to know the laundry. You got to give
us big brands, you know, I mean, we're politics distract us. Movies, options, beaches, mountains,

(04:26):
pro sports. Canada doesn't have our labyrinth of college options.
They're watching their hockey. That's what they're watching. This weekend,
the Dodgers Angels was on and I'm sitting there watching it,
and by about the third inning, I'm like, wait a minute,
this is back to being an exhibition game at Dodger Stadium.
Looked kind of full in the lower section. I thought,
that's kind of a weird opening game against intern league play.

(04:48):
I don't really get it. And then I remembered some
of the starters are playing. We got so many games
on TV. You gotta give us the big stuff. Mid
majors see a big brand stronger than it's good for
college basketball. All right, So the first round of the
NFL Draft, I think it's officially like a month away
as of today or yesterday. And it's not a particularly

(05:11):
strong draft. It's not a great quarterback draft. But the
last couple of years there have been an abundance of
Michigan Wolverine speaking of big brands in the first round.
So this year they got a tight end, a corner,
and two defensive tackles could all go in the first round,
and the Pittsburgh Steelers could use some of those players.
But the Pittsburgh Steelers staff skipped the Michigan Pro Day.

(05:35):
That's a big deal. They all skipped it to stay
home and interview Aaron Rodgers and try to talk him
into becoming a Steeler. And he went and he interviewed,
and he left and there's no contract. So and I'll
say this, if you do not take quarterback seriously, like

(05:56):
Pete Carolyn Seattle, Gino's good enough, not really with that
rosteries not Sam Howe's good enough, Ron Rivera not really,
Mason Rudolph good enough, not really. This is Pittsford's fall.
And by the way, I really do wonder what Aaron's thinking,
because the Steelers offensive line was bad and then they

(06:19):
lost their left tackle and Nausee Harris, who came out
this weekend and said, yeah, Pittsburgh's offense, it's frustrating, there's
no identity. They also lead the league again in defensive spending,
and they spend one hundred and fifty million on DK Metcalfs.
So they have two needy, combustible wide receivers who sort
of have the same game bolts want the ball, and
they have no quarterback. So I'm sitting there and I'm

(06:40):
thinking to myself over the weekend, there's a reason Aaron
Rodgers was waiting and waiting. He wanted Minnesota. Excellent offensive coach,
superstar wide receiver who doesn't complain much, upgraded their offensive
line very well. In free agency, Aaron wanted to go
to Minnesota, knew the division closer to Malibu, closer to home.

(07:01):
He wanted to go to Minnesota. And what he's doing
he's treating the Steelers like they need him more than
he needs them. And Aaron Rodgers is right. I looked
it up this morning. Even with California taxes, he's got
a networth probably three hundred million dollars, first ballot Hall
of Famer, forty one year old guy with a lot
of interests. I've said this before. Minnesota I would have

(07:23):
stuck around for Giants was interesting because of the coach
and left tackling weapon. I think Pittsburgh is fool's gold
for a quarterback. Go as Russell Wilson, it was a
mess by the end of the year. Go as Mason
Rudolph Old big Ben, it's fools gold. The Steelers are
twenty ninth in touchdown passes with a variety of quarterbacks
since twenty twenty one. Think about this, that's fewer than

(07:46):
the Patriots, the Raiders, and the Bears. I mean, come on, now,
we're getting into Carolina categories. So I think Aaron Rodgers,
if he signs anywhere, it will be Pittsburgh. But I
think there's a reason and people wait to take a
job offer because they have questions. It could be my kids,
it could be your kids, it could be you. It

(08:07):
could be Aaron Rodgers. He's sitting around. He's like their
offensive lines of mess and they may have just lost
their best offensive lineman and their best running back. And
I met with a coordinator He's fine, not special. It's
a defensive culture, tone, deft offense, and two wide receivers
that are talented, but both want the ball and both
have proven to be combustible. So in this instance, I

(08:31):
think Aaron's on the right side. I think he wanted
to go to Minnesota. He would consider San Francisco if
the brock Pretty thing didn't work. I think he wants
to keep his options out there. I don't think that's
necessarily a bad plan. But just to give you sins,
Pittsburgh kept all their staff home instead of going to
the Michigan Wolverine Pro Day, and they have four first

(08:51):
rounders and they could certainly use some help. So that's
where we stand today. J mcbill Simmons in one hour,
Colin right, Colin wrong. You know, people said there weren't
a lot of upsets and it was a boring tournament.
But I will say this that I thought, I mean,
I guess Arkansas beating Saint John's is an upset, but

(09:12):
Arkansas got off to a really bad start this year
with Calipari. It's a new coach, new staff, new players.
They played very well at the end of the year,
so it's not a huge upset. The SEC is so
stacked that Arkansas in the middle of the pack is
actually a team capable of getting to the Elite eight.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, they worry me. Man, that's a that's a pretty
damn good team. I will say, I like your flex
to start the show. Fifteen and sixteen Sweet sixteen teams,
well done. But Colin your take on the transfer portal? Nil,
don't you think it's kind of killed Cinderella. I mean,
if you're good at a small school for one year,
you're gone. The big guys are gobbling you, truck. There
will not be another Steph Curry in college basketball. That's

(09:50):
not happening.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
The Davidson thing, Yeah, the FAU those runs are done.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
That's right. As soon as you're good, you're game. You
can win a game, maybe get lucky in two. But
I would argue when I say Cinderella, it's a myth.
It never existed. Well, Villanova beat Georgetown, No, that's right
in my wheelhouse. They were a tough matchup for Georgetown.
Roley Masamino, who I covered in Vegas, told me, he goes,

(10:16):
we were We didn't want anything to do with Saint John's.
We didn't match up with him. We played them twice
in the Big East, and they crushed us. They had
a couple of pros on that Villanova team. That's what
I'm saying. That's considered the all time Cinderella Rolely Masamino
told me when I used to host his coach I
hosted his coaches show in Vegas, he goes, we love Georgetown.
They were physical. We had an NBA center and n Pigney.

(10:37):
We could slow it down. I thought I could go
to Totoe of John Thompson. We had no fear of Georgetown.
Saint John's crushed us. So that's considered all the Villan
Villanova had.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Pro Those are big eat schools. I'm talking like a
George Mason. Remember when they made the run.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
Of the Final four. Yeah, that ain't happening Visa. By
the way, those things.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Are an Aska sports fan and named three players on
George Mason. So that this idea that we watched for Cinderella.
No CBS and TNT CBS has done a great job
to sell that mythology, but it's untrue.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
And what do we see all weekend?

Speaker 3 (11:11):
The McNee State team, they get one win in the tournament,
and it was like, oh my gosh, McNee State, their manager,
all this stuff, and then poof, it's gone and they're
done remembered.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
So last week everybody, everybody was on you see San
Diego beating Michigan. So I watched Michigan the week before
play you know, big ten games. I'm like, Michigan's got
like two seven footers. You see, San Diego is not
going to be able to just gonna dump the ball low,
dominate the glass. So there'll still be upsets, but there

(11:41):
have never been as many. There was a Shaka Smart
was at VCU team. Again, you get a hot coach,
a hot team, they get kind of a friendly bracket.
But this idea that's why we watch, It's not. That's
not why we watch. We watched for the Michigans and
Dukes and Carolina and next night I'm watching Oregon in Arizona.

(12:03):
By the way, I watched, I watched the entire Yukon
Florida game. You know why, freak game because it had
a bunch of NBA players and great coaches, and it
was by the way, I thought Yukon out played them.
But then Florida dominates the last three minutes to makes
all the big plays. But the reason Yukon and Florida
was so good and the reason we love college football
because Yukon Florida looked a little bit like NBA basketball. Yeah,

(12:24):
you had shot makers and size and physicality, and so again,
there are just things we people say, I'm gonna work out,
I'm gonna lose twenty pounds. Maybe with Ozempic you will,
but you never lost it at the gym. People say
a lot of things, but they do very predictable things.
And we don't watch Missouri Valley Conference basketball and we
don't watch March Madness because of that.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
We like dominant teams. Who's winning around sports? Boston Celtics
absolutely loaded, Philadelphia Eagles stacked team. All like the great
teams are dominating right now. You're not really seeing these
major upsets in sports at all.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Right now, all you can hope for if you're a
bad franchise the Indiana Fever is that you land Caitlin Clark.
There you go, Yeah, I mean that's really it. Or
if you're Oklahoma City in a small market, you get SGM.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
LA Dodgers spend the most money win the World Series.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Gasp, sat with it. This is wrong with sports. Yankees
Dodgers went through the roof ratings wise. So the more
social platforms we have, the busier we get, the more
distracted we get. I mean, I say this about streaming.
I watch Netflix. You know the first thing I go
to out of the football season, the big dogs. It's
done to get Zulu, HBO, Max will give them love.

Speaker 5 (13:36):
Today.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
I watch stuff on that Apple TV. But it's even
with streaming, I just go right to the big brands
that I've known forever. That's where I go.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Well. I picked Auburn to win the Natty last week,
and I told Tom Izzo that, and I think I
told Mark Few that. And one of the reasons is
I like their coach. They got multiple guys that can score,
and they have an elite shot maker so they can
play from behind. I think there's certain teams in this tournament,
Michigan maybe one, Michigan State maybe one. They're very, very
good teams. I'm not sure they're built to come from

(14:17):
way back. Bruce Pearl, it's already been eleven years at Auburn,
He's built a Power four time Coach of the Year.
So you know, Cala Parti's joking about this nil portal stuff.
He was funny about that. He's like the portal, Oh
and it opens today. Four of your five starters are
from the portal. So it's obviously something you're comfortable with.

(14:38):
You you've been at smaller schools. You know, the talent
is it one of those things. It drives you nuts,
but you know you're not gonna complain or do you
kind of lean into the portal and all the challenges
of it.

Speaker 5 (14:52):
Well, Colin great to be with you.

Speaker 6 (14:54):
Look, you gotta you gotta adjust to the to the
rule changes and the portal and I or here. They're
here to stay, and so you got to find a
way to navigate within the framework of that. For me,
I don't mind the porto at all, and yet so
much of my team.

Speaker 5 (15:10):
Are guys that have been here four and five years.

Speaker 6 (15:12):
That's been the foundation and that's what our coach do
is But if you could add the right pieces at
the right time, you could be competitive every year. For me,
I typically don't like somebody else's mistakes. I really like
guys in a portal that come from mid major or
Division two or junior college, guys that are humble and
hungry and just want an opportunity. Having you know, worked

(15:34):
at it a little bit, now they're ready to play
at the high major level.

Speaker 5 (15:36):
And that's that's been the secret sauce for Auburn.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
So I'd said this in January, I'd watched SEC basketball
and I sat on the air twice I said, I
don't know if you guys are watching this, but the
middle of that conference could be better than everybody else's top.
So you know the nil I would argue that a
lot of the SEC schools are not in big, rich markets,
But yet when I watch SE basketball, you're all stuck

(16:01):
with talent. Is that just the geographic footprint, the high
school coaching, the money. Why is the SEC suddenly so deep?

Speaker 6 (16:10):
That's a great question, And you hit the nail on
the head, Colin. Everybody in the SEC has invested. It
just means more. And I said, this at the beginning
of the season, as we were out there in recruiting
and we're competing. What was going to make the SEC
really special and really deep this year and really difficult
to win is that the teams at the bottom of
our league are investing very similarly to the teams in

(16:32):
the middle and the top of the league.

Speaker 5 (16:33):
There's just not that much difference.

Speaker 6 (16:35):
And Colin, I think if you looked at well, look
at the national champion in football, and the teams that
got there at the very end, they were the teams
that were committed in the nil area when I mean committed,
you know, twenty million dollar rosters. If you look at
this year's Sweet sixteen, I think you'll find very much
that is very much the case. I'm happy that the
SEC has got seven teams in the Sweet sixteen, not

(16:57):
that it needed to validate what we did during the
regular season, because what we do did with in the
regular season was real. We earned the teams that we got.
But I'm glad this many teams advanced that we don't.
That way, we don't have to put up with the
argument that we were overrated.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
You've come into this tournament, I mean for years and
years I thought of Auburn as a football school, and
I don't anymore. I think of Bruce Pearl. That's the
first thing I think of with Auburn. I think of
Charles Barkley and Bruce Pearl, and you're that you've done that.
So it's interesting.

Speaker 6 (17:24):
We are still a we are still a football school,
but I also like to say that we're at everything school.
You know, we won the national championship in men's golf,
our women's golf team with the elite AID, our gymnastics
team in ranks. Softball is amazing, and and Hugh Freeze,
mark my words, is going to get it done in football.

Speaker 5 (17:41):
You're gonna make a lot of progress this year.

Speaker 6 (17:43):
So listen, I'm glad when you think of Auburn you
think of me and Charles that that's a great, great compliment.
I just hope that I'm worthy of your picking Auburn
to win the whole thing. You realize we got to
go through Michigan, Michigan State, all miss and then and
then all the other chock. That is still that it's
still alive in the sweet sixteen.

Speaker 1 (18:03):
You know, I said this earlier. I watched Florida Yukon
Boy that that was a game, and I said, I
think Florida benefited from Yukon's physicality. I don't think they'll
play a more physical team the rest of the way.
And I liked Florida. They got really hot late. Everybody's
got Florida winning. For somebody that knows them well. I

(18:24):
watched him yesterday. I thought Yukon out played him for
big chunks of that game. Were you shocked that Yukon
gave them that much?

Speaker 6 (18:33):
Yeah, I was surprised, you know not because coach Curly
can't put together a game plan and beat anybody on
any given Sunday. It's just that you're right, Yukon was
able to match Florida's physicality. And Florida is the most
physical team I think in the country, with the deepest
and the best guard play. I mean, Clayton is going

(18:54):
to be the best guard on the floor almost every
single night. He takes the floor, particularly the offensive end.
So yes, I was surprised that Florida struggled as much
as as as they did with you Come. But look,
you CON's a two time national champion and they were.
They played with great pride and and not many people
were picking them I still think right now Florida is
playing the best of anybody in the country. I think

(19:16):
Duke is uh Is also has demonstrated they played, you know,
some great basketball. But look, we just got to see
who can who can stay hot, and and and who
can man and Manason navigate them one at a time.
For Auburn, we've got these two seven footers at Michigan
and are both really skilled and really physical, and and
and and they're obviously really really good. And coach May's

(19:37):
I mean, he's one of the best young coaches in
college basketball. So we'll look, we'll take it one game
at a time, but we definitely feel like the.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
SEC prepared us for for for to make a run.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
You know, it's Judy Broomes obviously played great. It's you've
got shot makers that gives you a chance to win
a title. I said this earlier. I I think Adam
Silver is very good as a commissioner of the NBA.
I think he's marginalized college basketball. They thought, you know what,
we'll just go to the G League. We don't need
college basketball. My take is that is a huge mistake

(20:08):
college basketball. Between the brand's March madness. Also, I think
the coaching's better in college basketball than the G League.
I would argue, NIL does you a favor that you
may be able to keep a kid one more year?
And I do. I do feel like the NBA kind
of like, nah, we don't need college basketball. I think

(20:29):
the ratings prove it. Did Did you always feel that
that you were kind of almost there were a rival,
The NBA was almost a rival to college basketball.

Speaker 6 (20:39):
Yeah, I'm not gonna ask that question. And I don't
like to be criticized. I'm not critic company. My grandfather said,
we don't have something nice to say, don't say it.
But I don't know that the NCAA basketball world and
the NBA basketball world at the highest levels have worked
that well together either as it relates to developing our
gain exposure.

Speaker 5 (20:59):
In fact, I think in many ways we've been competing.

Speaker 6 (21:02):
And I think now with the NIL, we are absolutely
able to compete with the NBA. Kids would rather are
their kids are better off being in their teams and
their twenties in college, continuing to develop and being able
to be compensated for their value and their worth, versus
having to go into the G League and play on
a team with a bunch of guys that don't want

(21:22):
to be there, and you know and and and and
Russ and development. Look, Colin, it's not how much you make,
it's how long you can make it. So what I
tell kids, Look, you're gonna get rich when you sign
your first contract, but you're not gonna get wealthy until.

Speaker 5 (21:36):
You sign your second and third. So the question is when.

Speaker 6 (21:38):
Is it best for you to go into the league
so that when it comes to your second and third contract.

Speaker 5 (21:43):
Your body, your game, your maturity level is ready.

Speaker 6 (21:46):
I think the quality of NBA basketball will be better
and better served if they would stop drafting so much
on potential, like like there are there are some great
freshmen this year that were on losing car It's teams.
They're going to draft it really high and they're going
to be great players, but they're not ready right now.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
So what are you gonna do? Put them out there.

Speaker 6 (22:07):
In the NBA where they're not going to play very
good basketball, or stick them in the G league as
an eighteen nineteen year old kid.

Speaker 5 (22:13):
I don't think right now that system's working. Nil.

Speaker 6 (22:18):
Gives those guys a chance to stay in college a
little bit, get right and get better, and they'll be
better pros for you.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, and I also think there's such value in the
community of a college campus. There's a lot of diversity.
You got to go to classes, you don't love, You
don't always get your way, but it's a community. College
campuses are some of the great times in your life.
He's Bruce Pearl Friday. It's Michigan. I like Auburn winning,
but this is a good one. Michigan is NBA big,

(22:45):
so Bruce, I appreciate it as always. Thank you, and
you built a powerhouse and good luck to you.

Speaker 5 (22:51):
Thank you, Colin. We'll talk to you again.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Soon, all right. Bruce Pearl Eleven years at Auburn, four
time SEC Coach of the Year. See his feeling is mine,
which is the NBA kind of worked against you. I've
said that if my kid was a college basketball player,
I'd rather you take some classes, get coached hard in college,
not go to the G League. In most of the
coaching's hit and miss. In the G League. The training

(23:13):
staffs are hitt and miss. There's no marketing college players.
I've talked to Mark Fewitt Gonzek. College players get treated
great and now they get paid great if they're excellent players. So,
by the way, I know you're excited about this as
a Jets fan. I don't know if you just caught
your attention. Jamis Winston signed a two year deal with
the Giants.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
I'm excited about that. So what does that mean?

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Does that mean that they're drafting on quarterback in the
first round regardless of who's there or second round?

Speaker 4 (23:42):
I mean I have to team.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yes, yes, So who's their head coach next year because
it's not Brian Dable. Well, there's no way he's surviving
with Jamis Winston and or a second one.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Well, especially if you don't have your offensive line right uh.
And the Cowboys and the Eagles will have pretty good
pass rushes. Jamis throw a lot of arrant balls, so
it'll be a turnover plug season.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Now, when does Malik Neighbors?

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Have you checked his social media to see if he
were his thoughts on this this acquisition, He's like, Aaron
Rodgers maybe.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
On and we got James Winston. It's like, oh, well
it's Colin will go.

Speaker 3 (24:16):
To a big steak dinner right out back, you know,
like that, that's what this feels like.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
For a lot of people. That's wonderful. Let me just
say this. The New York Giants and their franchise history
had never lost thirteen games. They've now lost thirteen games
three times in eight years. And it's just a series
of egregiously bad moves. I mean, Bill Simmons next hour,
the reason the Celtics are good. Brad Stevens and Danny
Yanes or basketball Samants. Yeah, they made really good decisions

(24:44):
on coaches, really good decisions on draft picks. Danny made
really good decisions when to move off stars at the
right time.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
They could have had more kill fults in the draft.
Remember that they were like, no, we're gonna We're gonna
go back upstairs. Take this, Jason Tatum Gay.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Upstairs is the difference. I mean, I love Andy Reid
and Mahomes, but upstairs is the difference between eliminated early
and eliminated late. And the Giants have been a mess
upstairs for a lot of years. All right, Colin Wright,
Colin Wrong, Monday Show, Our two Next.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
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Speaker 8 (25:38):
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Speaker 7 (25:42):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss.

Speaker 8 (25:51):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
twenty years and still work together.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.

Speaker 7 (25:56):
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Speaker 1 (26:04):
The most interactive show on planetar.

Speaker 7 (26:06):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on
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Speaker 1 (26:18):
That's Covino and Rich. All right, it's Monday, Colin, Right,
Colin wrong.

Speaker 9 (26:23):
Here we go where Colin was right.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Well, well, well, j mack only has ten teams left.
I've got fifteen of sixteen teams left for the television audience.
This is the staff can vouch for me. This is
my bracket. Last week, jaymck and I went toe to toe.
We gave our brackets in and I'm only missing one team.

(26:46):
Rick Patino did me wrong, but good so far. I'm
probably gonna pay a dear price for not having Duke
win it all, but I think I think you know
Duke will have their hands full. I'll leave it at that.
Where Colin was right, I've said the Dodgers being villains
great for baseball. I just saw the ratings for the

(27:07):
games in Japan. Twenty five million viewers across all platforms,
most watched baseball game ever in Japan. The second game
almost got as many against the Cobs. Folks outside of
the NFL, sports needs villains. It's good when the Celtics win.
It's good when the Lakers. One of the Yankees and
Dodgers merchandise is off the chain. By the way, those

(27:31):
games with the viewers were starting at three am Pacific
time and still did really good.

Speaker 9 (27:37):
Numbers where Colin was raw.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Well, I had a little feud with John Calipari, but
he beat Bill self in round one and Rick Patino
in round two, and he deserves credit because this team's
had injuries all year. They were bad to start the season,
only finished eight and ten in the SEC. But Calipari
deserves credit. He is the only coach ever to take
four different school only second coach ever four different schools.

Speaker 9 (28:03):
In Sweet sixteen, where Colin was right.

Speaker 1 (28:06):
I said when the US Men's soccer hired Mauricio Pochadino
that if they ever lost, they'd blame the coach. Well,
we just got shut out by Panama and lost to
Canada in the Nation's League games. It's our worst finish
in a long time. And I've said we overvalue our players.

(28:29):
We think it doesn't matter who the coach is. Jurgen Klinsman,
Steve Bruce Arena, it doesn't matter. The coach always takes
the heat. And my knock has been we have some
good players, but last World Cup we're way too young,
probably still too young to finish as a top four
to eight team. But once again we get a new

(28:50):
coach after driving one out and it's the same result.
We don't have the intensity in big games like we should.
Where Colin was right, Rock Perdy reportedly wants Dak money.
I laugh at all these people tell him he's gonna
take a pay cut, team friendly deal. No, even though
he was one and six against playoff teams last year,

(29:13):
with more interceptions than touchdowns and had his second troubling injury,
he views himself as great. He's been gassed up because
he's a seventh round pick. He's never made any money,
so he is gonna go and play hardball. I've said it.
I think Aaron Rodgers privately is talking to the Niners.
I could be wrong on this. He maybe. If I'm

(29:35):
Aaron Rodgers, I don't sign. I sit on the sidelines
and wait and watch what's happening with the Niners.

Speaker 9 (29:41):
Where Colin was wrong, I.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Had Saint John's and Rick Patino in the final four. Listen.
I knew they weren't a great shooting team, but a
lot of college teams aren't great shooting teams. This is
not the NBA. They were awful offensively, and here's Patino
after the loss.

Speaker 10 (29:58):
We thoughtchampionship driven in our minds, but I've been disappointed
before with this. You hate to see us play like that.
I don't mind going out with a loss. I just
hate to see us play that way offensively, and you
got to live with it. You put a lot of
time and effort the coaches did, and it's just a

(30:18):
bit a pill to swallow.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
Where Colin was right, Ah, the SEC has seven teams
in the Sweet sixteen. Florida, Auburn, and Tennessee all look
good enough to win all miss role. Number three seed
Iowa State Bama is winning to I went almost all
chalk with SEC teams. I had Arkansas losing to Saint John's,

(30:44):
but in the end said it in January when I
watched the SEC, I said it two different times on
this show. Are you guys watching college basketball? Because it
looks like SEC football about five years ago. They just
look bigger, longer, faster, and more skilled than every other conference.
Where Colin was right, Nase Harris set it out loud.

(31:05):
The Steelers don't have any identity on offense. He said,
I go to the defensive guys and talk to them,
but they wouldn't be too much. They couldn't tell me
about the offensive line. This is what we've said, it
is so crystal clear that is the NFL pivoted to offense.
They led the NFL in defensive spending again, and they
are an antiquated offensive culture. That's why I think nause

(31:30):
Harris is one of the great pickups of the off season.
Colin Wright, Colin Wrong, Phil Simmons, you know him, the
Ringer CEO and found the cultural critic Bill Simmons podcast
at Built. He's a very busy guy, so I don't
get him very often, but he's got a cool looking
uh usually I see you and Roussello doing your thing,
so I have not. I'm starting this week. The staff
is all cut up. They're singing the praises of your match.

Speaker 11 (31:53):
You're not gonna watch it?

Speaker 1 (31:54):
Come on, no am, I will, I will, I do,
I travel a lot, I watch. I'll watch every episode.
First one Koozy, then Russell, then it's the Celtics I
grew up with, which was six eight, Dave Cowens at
center and Havel That's what I grew up with. Then
we're going to the one that's really fascinating birds. So
I'm gonna ask you this question to start. When you
come up with an idea like this, the day the

(32:15):
light goes on, the epiphany to the series starts. Because Hollywood,
everything's molasses, everything slow motion. How long is the process
from light bulb to show as airing?

Speaker 12 (32:29):
Well, first of all, it's an honor to follow a
Nase Harris segment.

Speaker 11 (32:33):
I was really hoping that would happen in mid March.

Speaker 12 (32:35):
I know the world's talking about Naji right now, so
it's great to be here. It started probably twenty twenty,
and it just takes so long to finish deals, and
it takes so long to find a director and find
the behind the scenes team that this was probably a
four year process. Plus we're making nine episodes, nine hours

(32:56):
of content, and you know, you looking back, it feels
like a million years ago when we started, and it
was really hard to do because you're telling you know,
it's one of the most famous franchises in any sport.
It intersects with the city of Boston in all these ways,
and the NBA in America. So it was a pretty
ambitious thing that I feel good about what we pulled off.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well, you've also, because of the tragedy to lend Bias,
there was also another run that could have been and
wasn't you guys could have had your next Ross, that's right.
So you could have had a pre Larry Bird Larry
and you didn't. So that's something I've always thought about
Boston is you know the Lakers, you know, with with

(33:37):
Kobe and Gasol, you could have had another one there.
So this is a franchise that could have more. They've
had some bad fate. When you, as a Celtic fan
look at all the teams, is there one that to
you is closest to your heart?

Speaker 11 (33:52):
I mean the Celtics because we had season tickets.

Speaker 12 (33:55):
My dad got a ticket in the seventy three seventy
four season, used to carry me in and then we
eventually got two in the late seventies.

Speaker 11 (34:01):
So I went to the most Celtic games.

Speaker 12 (34:04):
So I obviously that personally, just being there, being in
the building for some of the best and the worst stuff,
I think matters the most. I think what's interesting about
the team as a whole is, you know they mattered
the most. They were the most successful franchise in the
world for the first forty years really until Bias died

(34:25):
and then it just dipped and there was this slow
process where you're hanging on to the old memories. You're
hoping it's going to work out, and then eventually you
just become another NBA team.

Speaker 11 (34:37):
The Garden goes down in ninety five.

Speaker 12 (34:40):
They just have this absolute drought where they're not relevant
really for nine solid years until the two thousand and
two team. So it's this once powerful institution that completely
falls apart and then eventually resurrects, starting with the KG trades.
So that part made it really compelling as a story too.
It's not an episode, but you know, once we get

(35:02):
into the nineties and the two thousands, it gets pretty dark.
A lot of stuff has happened to this team, so
that made it great from a storytelling standpoint.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
You know, it's a different world. It used to be
that all the NBA guys were fighting for a smaller pie,
and so Michael Jordan really did hate the Pistons and everybody.
You know, there was real animosity. Now Bird and Magic
didn't like each other initially, but over the course of
time they had some respect for each other. But it's interesting.

(35:30):
It's a more collaborative basketball world. Au guys all play together.
And I've said this about Jason Tatum. He is a
product of what basketball is today. It's not high school
rivalries and college rivalries. It's au basketball. You may not
even go to college by the time you get into
the NBA. All help each other with charities, your friends,
and so we can criticize Tatum, but he is a

(35:53):
product of this generational basketball player. Lebron doesn't have any enemies.
He's never gotten into a fight. They all get paid.
So I guess my point is you can't really criticize
Tatum when he doesn't have quote the instinct that's what
basketball players are today.

Speaker 5 (36:11):
Is that fair?

Speaker 12 (36:13):
Well, I mean it's funny if you watch the Celtics
season this year, they've definitely butted heads with a few teams,
including the Lakers. I think there is more crap talk
during that last Laker Celtic game than probably the last
five years of it. Listen, Colin, Celtics nation is very
aware of your Tatum takes. They've we've fired. Everybody gets

(36:33):
super defensive about him because the guys having an incredible season.

Speaker 11 (36:37):
First of all, I won the title last year.

Speaker 12 (36:39):
Yeah, this year, he's the third best guy in the league.

Speaker 11 (36:43):
He plays all five positions.

Speaker 12 (36:45):
Yesterday against Portland he was playing point center with four shooters.

Speaker 11 (36:49):
He can guard everybody.

Speaker 12 (36:51):
He's the best rebounder on the team, I think, as
a decision maker and just as an all round player.
This is the best he's ever looked by far, and
he's the biggest reason they have a chance to win
the title gain.

Speaker 11 (37:03):
I think last year you could definitely make the case.

Speaker 12 (37:05):
It was one A and one B with him and
Jalen Brown, and they had a great, in a good way,
a seesaw thing where they would lift each other up
before one guy was down.

Speaker 11 (37:14):
This year, it's been Tatum season.

Speaker 12 (37:15):
He's the best guy in the team, and other than
Sga and Jokic, she's been the most day to day
impactful guy in the league. And he's really durable, which
I think, you know, both of us have criticized NBA
players for you play sixty five games and you call
it a season, and you take like little sabbaticals or
you leave or your nurse injuries.

Speaker 11 (37:33):
Tatum's out there all the time, and I think.

Speaker 12 (37:36):
What he has turned into over the last couple of
years has exceeded any expectation I ever could have had.
You're basically hoping he could be a poor man's Durant
when they drafted him and now you're talking about somebody
that has a chance to be one of the four
or five best Celtics ever.

Speaker 5 (37:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
And I also think, unlike Durant, he's not a wanderer,
like I could see him playing for this team forever.
And then, I mean that's not his personal question. I've
said this before. They're Look, all basketball players enter every
night with an empty canvas. They're all artists. More than
any other sport. Basketball players are artists. They spill paint,
they have bad nights, Steph Curry has horrible shooting nights.
The difference is Lebron is more Bono or jay Z

(38:15):
where he's a businessman and KD is more Pearl Jam.
I'm gonna sue Ticketmaster. Tatum's more Lebron. He's happy, he's content,
he's community. It's about business and basketball. So I could
see him staying forever, and I think that's good for
the Celtics. That's just kind of more He's more Lebron
than Durant personality wise. Yeah.

Speaker 12 (38:37):
I mean that's one of the things our documentary is about.
For whatever is in this franchise, the history of the
guys who played for and the things that have happened,
and the banners and all the ups and downs and
read our Back and people who are dead Russell read
our Back, Tommy Hinson. Everybody's basically gone except Coozy and
sach Sanders. But I think the newer guys when they

(38:57):
come in, they really feel that there's something different about
the history, the way the generations interact. I think in
Tatum's case, some of that circumstance, like he ended up
on the best possible team for him with a city
that absolutely loves him. I don't know if the Durant
stuff is totally fair, because to me, Durant is just

(39:17):
a series.

Speaker 11 (39:18):
And I know I'm always a Durant defender.

Speaker 12 (39:22):
But I think it's I think it's a series of
sliding doors with him. You could argue if they never
leave Seattle and that team is still there with Westbrook
and maybe Harden and Abaca and an owner actually cared
about the franchise and kept them in Seattle, which is,
you know, one of the most I loaded from a
money standpoint cities we have. Maybe he's still there, maybe

(39:45):
he never leaves, maybe he becomes what Tatum's going to
be in Boston. So I think you need luck with
this stuff. Lebron didn't have luck in Cleveland because they
were always trying to catch up with him in the
two thousands. They're always trying to make the team as
good as possible, as fast as possible, and sign free
agents and make these big trades and just constantly try
to chase the title before they were really ready. And

(40:07):
eventually he realized I can't win with this current setup,
and he jumps to Miami. And whether you agree with
that or not, that was the thinking I think with Tatum.
He's in a great situation all the way through his twenties,
and that's why you stay.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah. No, it's like quarterbacks. Mahomes would win, but he
wouldn't win as much without read and vetch and.

Speaker 11 (40:26):
The one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, I mean it's where you land, at least in
the NFL. It feels like for quarterbacks about eighty percent
of it. I want to ask you about this. So
years ago I coined this. I was very proud of myself.
I said, I like analytics. I'm not anti analytics, but
I like ma analytics. Is that in the end, I
need to stop in a bucket. I want a man,
I want an alpha. I don't care about. I think

(40:49):
a lot of the analytics in the NBA are great
for the regular season, but postseason basketball is circumstantial. It's
possession basketball. Make us stop. Where are you on analytics? Again?
I'm for them, but playoff basketball, it's it's an alpha sport.
That's why I don't trust OKAC for another year. It's
why I didn't trust Cleveland last year, and I do
more this year. The young guys are no more about men.

(41:12):
Where are you on basketball analytics?

Speaker 11 (41:16):
I just think everybody has them now.

Speaker 12 (41:17):
We hit a point with baseball when there was an edge,
like that's what Moneyball's about, right, and especially the Moneyball movie,
which is Jon Hill's character is a fictional person of
nine different things, And eventually everyone had the analytics. And
then in baseball, then it moved to defense, and then
it moved to like, you know, some of the hell stuff,

(41:39):
and it just kept trying to evolve. I think in
basketball they're all looking at the same stuff. It's better
to shoot threes than twos. You want interchangeable athletes. I
think teams like okay See in Boston have really set
the trend for if we just have long guys everywhere
who can shoot, and they're interchangeable, and that's what we're
doing for four quarters.

Speaker 11 (41:59):
That's the biggest advantage you can have.

Speaker 12 (42:00):
I went to Okay see Quippers last night, dare Miss
and Jalen Williams and Chat Holmgren.

Speaker 11 (42:05):
It didn't matter.

Speaker 12 (42:06):
They still won and they were and they had defense.
They could switch on every possession on offense, even though
Sga he couldn't buy a basket the whole night, but
they had just guys sending picks for him constantly. Here's
creating stuff for everybody. And they have a real identity.
And I think the Celtics do too, the Celtics. If
you play minutes for the Celtics, you have to be
able to shoot.

Speaker 11 (42:26):
That's it.

Speaker 12 (42:27):
So I think from an analytics standpoint, the analytics are
more about identity than player to player. It's like, what
are you trying to be? I think the Lakers are
struggling with that right now. I went to the Bulls
game Saturday night. By the way, Colin, you live in LA.
You realize you could come to some of these basketball
games in season ticket hole.

Speaker 11 (42:45):
We don't really see you in the arena studying the action.

Speaker 12 (42:48):
But but I went to that Bulls Laker game, and
the Bulls were just like, we're running this whole time.
We're going to run, run down your throats and you're
gonna die by the third quarter, which the Lakers Dad,
and you see that. And that's a team that their
identity because that Luca trade. They're trying to patch it
together in the fly. I want identities in the playoffs,
and to me, that's more important than analytics. I think

(43:10):
Cleveland is as close to having one as possible. But
you saw last week Kawai killed them, Kevin Durant killed them.

Speaker 11 (43:19):
What's Tatum going to do against them?

Speaker 12 (43:21):
When you see these big scoring forwards are able to
get whatever they want against them?

Speaker 11 (43:25):
So yeah, so I do you buy that? Though I'm
more of an identity guy than an analytics guy.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, I think I think there are a lot of
similarities in sports. What are you? Pitchings all? I mean,
baseball is all about pitching. I got better pitching, I
win the series. I mean even show hey, O talk
can have a badge. It's all it's about. It's about.
But in basketball and football, what are you? Because I
think in crisis, it's like it's just like as a parent,
or as a business, Oh, we've got crisis. Everybody in
the building has to know what do we lean on?

(43:53):
Where do we go when you're playing bad teams. When
the Cavs are playing the Celtics, I think the Celtics
win because I think they have a greater sense of identity.
Even though the Cavs can be more efficient, I think
there are times you can argue that they've had better
games against Boston. I think Boston has a better sense
of what they are in a tie game at ninety
nine with two thirty left, and that's why they'll win.

(44:16):
I got to ask you this, well, well.

Speaker 12 (44:18):
Wait, Our friend Risilla and I always talk about this,
the difference in regular season basketball and playoff basketball, because
I think a regular season team can have a different
kind of success than a playoffs trn if you go
to the playoffs and you're only doing one thing, and
that can work if you only see a team once,
but when you see them for two weeks, I think
this can be a real problem for the Knicks. The

(44:39):
Knicks are so Jalen Brunson centric that we're gonna get
to the playoffs, and you just see that over and
over again for two weeks, you can get used to it.
The Celtics with Luca in the finals last year the
same thing. They just they got used to how Dallas
is playing and they you know, as the series went along,
it was great for them.

Speaker 11 (44:55):
So I think the ability to kind.

Speaker 12 (44:56):
Of change personas, which I think Okase he has, I
think Boston has, I think Cleveland potentially has.

Speaker 11 (45:03):
That's the number one thing you want in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
As a Celtic guy. In the show. By the way,
it's called Celtic City Episode for Great Hope airs tonight
and that's the arrival of Larry Bird, which is yes
again again, that's in my wheelhouse.

Speaker 6 (45:18):
You know.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
I remember I watched The Michigan State when it was
Magic and Greg Kelser and it was the Sycamores from Indiana.
So that's that's right in my wheelhouse. Is the guy
that just turned sixty. So is there something about give
me just a taste because we all know the Larry
Bird story and and and give me a little a
side or a little a little thought on Larry Bird

(45:41):
that don't give away too much. But but maybe you
didn't even know and then you kind of found out.

Speaker 12 (45:48):
You know, you always see this stuff about when the
guys were at their apexes, when they're at their best,
especially in documentaries.

Speaker 11 (45:55):
I've certainly been involved in a few of them.

Speaker 12 (45:57):
I think it's a really interesting piece of it is
when the guy is banged up and passed their prime
and holding on and the thing that still makes them
great or made them great once upon a time, they
can still kind of go back and grab it every
once in a while. And that's like there's basically three
straight Bird era episodes coming and that last episode is

(46:18):
about how do you stay great when your body's starting
to break down? What does that mean? When do you
know when it's time to walk away? And I think
that's the part that I think people don't remember now.
With Bird Magic, all of a sudden was gone, right
he had the HIV diagnosis and that was it.

Speaker 5 (46:35):
He retired.

Speaker 11 (46:36):
We never saw him hit that stage.

Speaker 12 (46:38):
Jordan left at the absolute peak and then came back
and went through it with the Wizards for those last
two years, and if you remember, those were really interesting
Wizard seasons for him. Right his knees were banged up,
he was doing it on a lot of memory and
was still awesome. So I think with Bird and sometimes
it goes terrible, you know, like and especially you see

(46:58):
it in football. You've seen it with Aaron right now,
the last couple of years, right, just awful, Like it
couldn't the ending couldn't be worse. I think with the
Bird one, he's got this thirty pounds back brace and
he's still able to like kick butt against the best
guys in the league during like one of the hardest
eras we've ever.

Speaker 11 (47:15):
Had for basketball. So I think that part.

Speaker 12 (47:17):
I think people are going to be surprised how much
they forgot about that section.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Okay, it's called Celtic City. It's supposed to be great.
I will watch it. I watch everything, by the way
I just saw.

Speaker 11 (47:27):
I don't believe you.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
No, No, I absolutely watch it. I'll bet you anything
all while. Well, I'm gonna start watching it tonight. I
will watch it all right, Okay.

Speaker 12 (47:34):
I would appreciate that, But we know you're not going
to basketball games in LA, so you have more time.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
I'm a Bulls season ticket older. I've seen Tatum play
live four times. I am nice.

Speaker 11 (47:43):
The Bulls are looking good.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Well, if they get Cooper fit, then they're really good.

Speaker 11 (47:47):
A decade of playing appearances for the Bulls. That's it.

Speaker 12 (47:50):
They're just they live in the playing, that's all they want,
no luxury tax playing and they're happy.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Okay, So I'm gonna one football take one. I think
we both have Maggie Harri Yes, no, no, that's I'm
going to save the good stuff for later. One Aaron
Rodgers take. And I think you and I are kind
of agree on this is that there's two ways you
can be a quarterback to great quarterback. You can be Brady,
which is great and low maintenance Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson,

(48:19):
or you can be great and there is maintenance, Cam
Big Ben, Aaron, that group, it never ends well. What
my take is, Aaron will probably go Steelers, but deep
down he paused because he wanted to go to the Vikings,
and I believe he wants brock Perty to demand sixteen million.

(48:40):
I think he wants to go play for the Niners
because he knows the Steelers don't know offense. That's I'm
not a conspiracy theory guy. That's my conspiracy is deep
down he wants to go to the Bay with Shanahan.
What is your take on this circus that's become Aaron
over the last couple of years. His fall to the
leagues are where you land on it.

Speaker 12 (48:58):
Well, he was washed up last year as a quarterback.
I mean that's a crucial piece of this. He was terrible.
He was good if he had protection. When he protection
is one of the worst quarterbacks in the league. I
think he likes when people are talking about him. I
could see him sticking around and being kind of in
the back pocket for if a situation goes wrong with
a quarterback or if somebody gets hurt, and maybe that

(49:23):
he won't officially retire and he'll wait and he'll wait,
and he'll wait and see what happens. I honestly think Brady,
even after Brady retired from the Bucks, I think there
was a world for the next two years where he
would have come back if something had happened to a QBM,
one of the best teams. I think it's really hard
for these guys to let go. But I mean, my
big picture take on this, and it ties in with

(49:44):
Lebron and Brady. I think those guys and how successful
they have been. Lebron his late thirties into his forties
and then Brady all the way to forty five. I
think it's just completely ruined how we should be seeing
the end of people's careers. We're expecting these people when
they're thirty seven, thirty eight, thirty nine to just still

(50:05):
be good.

Speaker 11 (50:06):
And guess what, it's.

Speaker 12 (50:07):
Not going to happen, Like Lebron and Brady are generational anomalies,
and what's supposed to happen is you're supposed to hate
your late thirties as a quarterback and you're supposed to
be washed up, and that's.

Speaker 11 (50:19):
Just how it's supposed to go. And in basketball, same thing.
You're supposed to be Paul George thirty four to thirty five.
Guess what, Athletically you're gonna start slipping year after year
after year because that's how it goes. And Lebron and
Brady because they are such maniacs and.

Speaker 12 (50:33):
They spend three hundred and sixty five days a year
getting their bodies ready, and every decision they make was
about still continuing to dominate. I don't think it's replicable,
and I think it's I think it's going to cause
more bad decisions like the Cousins contract, Rogers, you name it,
some of the basketball stuff that's coming.

Speaker 11 (50:50):
I just think those guys screwed it up for everybody else.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
As weird as that sounds, well, one more take four
years in a role. I have picked a bad team
to be good the next year Washington, last year in Denver, Rams,
the previous year Minnesota. My pick is New England. I said,
between the money, the draw and mayout of rabel Is,
you're talking about a different level of coaching. I think
Drake May is Herbert. I think they look alike. I

(51:15):
think they they they're their size, they move, give me
a real okay, forget we know you think they'll be better,
but I got that.

Speaker 11 (51:26):
No, I'm always realistic with my teams.

Speaker 12 (51:28):
Okay, So I think there were I know you've You
and I have both done a good job over the
years of identifying possible people like I went twenty seven
and five in my over unders before the season last year,
like I'll never top that again. So I must feel
like I'm gonna do badly this year because I did
too well last year. But my picks were actually good,
whereas I saw your blazing five record, it was pretty bad.

Speaker 11 (51:50):
Myndolences. I'm sorry it was all I just think.

Speaker 12 (51:53):
You know, obviously your priorities were out of whack and
you just didn't care. We all look forward to you
caring more this year and trying to re establish your dominance.
But listen, the Patriots recipe is exactly the same as Washington.

Speaker 11 (52:05):
Last year. The Washington thing did not make sense.

Speaker 12 (52:08):
They were in Philly's division, they were in a really
loaded NFC, they had all this turnover. Oh how are
they going to do this? But then you look at it,
it's like terrible coaching staff. All of a sudden, they
had a good coaching staff. They all of a sudden
had a good quarterback the year before they did it.
They spent a bunch of money on free agents, they
did well in the draft, and they played an easy schedule.

Speaker 11 (52:28):
So we know what the recipe is. We look at
it every year.

Speaker 12 (52:31):
I think the Pats if they can nail the draft
and they can figure out left tackle and at least
one playmaker, I think when you consider how awful the
coaching staff was last year, I was one of the
worst coach teams I've ever had in any Boston sport.

Speaker 11 (52:48):
You couldn't even believe it. Week to week a bat
it was. So you have Drake, they get a couple.

Speaker 12 (52:53):
Of blue Chippers, easy schedule they had around and then
you throw in Mike Vrabel, who I think everybody thinks
is a top six or seven co coach. It's reasonable
to go from four wins to ten like we see
it every year, where I was like, oh, who saw
this coming? We always see it coming. This happens every
year and it's always about a schedule and a coach
and a QB.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
All right, Well, you know he doesn't return my text,
so I get him about once every seven years.

Speaker 11 (53:17):
Very busy, that's ballooney.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
You're very busy. Don't get a lot of time.

Speaker 11 (53:21):
That's ballooney. I'm always I'm always down for a hang.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
You could invite me to any like, like, I haven't
been into it yet, but I'm always available if you
want to invite me to see.

Speaker 11 (53:31):
This is what I'm talking about into.

Speaker 12 (53:33):
It's the best basketball arena ever built, and it's relatively
close to where you live.

Speaker 11 (53:38):
And you're like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'll go
one of these times and see what see. I could
go to any game I want to pass.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Couldn't you acknowledge I've at least moved into WWE respecting
it now? That was a big bone of contention between us.
It's no longer. I've been to two.

Speaker 11 (53:53):
Has the community accepted you though?

Speaker 5 (53:55):
No.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
You said some.

Speaker 12 (53:57):
Mean things way back when there was a bigger you
had that going. You look down on people, you made
people feel dumb about it.

Speaker 11 (54:05):
Now you're back.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
I don't know if I'm back. I'm just you know,
I'm I'm more willing to accept that. It is just
what it is. It's theater. It's fun. Just lean into
it and have fun. I was you know, it wasn't well.

Speaker 11 (54:16):
I'm trying to tell you forever. Look at this. Two
guys who used to work for the Worldwide Leaders still
doing well. Funny how that happens?

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Huh.

Speaker 11 (54:26):
Everyone says that he can't leave there. Oh no, can't
leave the Worldwide Leader hod Leveskin Fall part guess what
We're fine.

Speaker 5 (54:33):
We've done.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Okay, we've done. Okay, okay. It's called Celtic City, Episode
four tonight, great hope period. This is the Larry Bird stuff.
So for if you're in your twenties or thirties, you'll
remember this stuff. This will be the episode. Is this
the one you're proudest of?

Speaker 5 (54:50):
Is this?

Speaker 1 (54:51):
I mean, they're all good. Obviously the staff's obviously great.
I went and looked up the people working on is
this one of these You're really the hit episode?

Speaker 11 (55:00):
I honestly, I'm proud of all of them.

Speaker 12 (55:03):
I think this is This gets fun because this is
the first stretch of episodes where everybody we're interviewing is
actually still alive, so, you know, because we're going way
way back to the fifties, sixties and seventies, and sadly
a lot of those people are now gone. So this
was it was nice to get, you know, some some
people who are still around talking about things that they

(55:25):
can actually remember. So yeah, it's I'm really proud of it.
And the thing about tonight is Boston versus Philly was
the best Boston rivalry of my childhood, and beating the
Sixers mattered as much as anything except the Yankees and Canadians.
I would say, yeah, I remember, so you know, it's

(55:46):
I had never really seen that captured in the right way,
so we tried to do it in this episode.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Yeah, great Sixer teams with Steve Mix and Caldwell Jones
and Andrew Tony and Mo Cheeks and doctor j George McGinnis. People.
I always say this, there may not have been a
dynasty in the seventies and early eighties until the Celtics
Lakers arrived. Seventies, NBA basketball was fantastic. It was great.

Speaker 11 (56:10):
That it was great, very super weird with two pre
bird Bird.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Rick Berry was pre bird Bird, grumpy, great shooter forward
who didn't get along with some people. But it was
a different time. But he was pre bird bird, sixth
eight guy that could shoot right.

Speaker 12 (56:24):
And there was a lot of mystique for people like
us back then because none of the games.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Were ever on right, that's right.

Speaker 11 (56:29):
So you followed the.

Speaker 12 (56:30):
League through the basketball handbooks and basketball cards and Sports
Illustrated and newspapers, and every once in a while there
would be a game on. But like going the games
in Boston the seventies, David Thompson and they maybe came
once twice a year, you know, George Gervin, these guys,
if you didn't go the one time they were in town,
you never saw them again. And now everything's so available.

(56:51):
Now you can follow the NBA and you don't even
need to go to games or watch games. You could
follow it on social media and you know, on Twitter.
So I'm a nostalgic for that era too, because it
really you really had to care and you really had
to follow what was going on.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
I was the only kid in the neighborhood that collected
NBA cards and not baseball cards. So you know, I
can I go back to Elmore Smith Lakers Center number three,
I go way back. Bill Simmons, CEO, the Ringer and
the Founder as well. Celtic City Episode four tonight, Great
Hope periods the Larry Bird issue. It airs tonight on MAX.
New episode focuses on the arrival of Larry Bird. That

(57:29):
as much watch as always. You know, I appreciate when
you stop by your busy guy, I appreciate it.

Speaker 12 (57:35):
I appreciate it too, And I don't come in because
you do the desk that's higher than the guest chair,
and I don't appreciate the power play by you, so
I'd rather do it on sim But great to see you.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Totally get it all right, Good stuff, Bill Simmons, how's
a long interview for us? We don't do that very often,
but there's a lot of stuff to cover. He's obviously
an interesting cat and I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, and
think about that they had that absolutely awful Lend Bias
tragedy that could have been another you know he was
out of Maryland. If you didn't see Len Bias playing
college number thirty four, there was just nothing like it.

(58:05):
He has a little Dominique Wilkins, a little David Thompson,
just wildly. If I could compare him to a football player,
be Adrian Peterson like just bigger, stronger than other players
of his generation. Just didn't look the same or play
the same. The tragedy in his early death or they
could have had another long run