April 28, 2025 • 37 mins
Colin discusses the fall of Shedeur Sanders from a potential top pick to eventually getting selected in the 5th round and why his father, Deion Sanders, could be the one to be blamed. He tells you why he was right about Anthony Edwards and wrong about the Bears. Plus, 3-time Pro Bowler Matt Hasselbeck joins the show to give his thoughts on where Shedeur landed and the Raiders selecting running back Ashton Jeanty.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
All Right, it is Monday, after the draft and with
the NBA playoffs revving up. Look at those Tea Wolves,
Lakers in trouble and reeling.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
We are live.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It's the Herd wherever you may be and however you
may be listening one hour from now. Colin was right,
Colin was wrong. We have plenty of both well. Jmack.
It's funny. I have said this for a long time.
I've been saying this for about a decade. You never
get lied to more in our business than a month
(01:01):
before the NFL Draft. I've said that one hundred times.
You get so much misinformation fed to you, as mel
kiper a month before the NFL Draft. So a lot
of stories we start with us as Shader Sanders was
sliding suddenly stories started to pop out from Justina Anderson,
(01:22):
Todd mcshae a, Jonathan Jones, NFL insider for CBS. Stuff
that wasn't out there as much pre draft. I mean,
we knew that legendary draft room. We could see that
was a bit cringe. But when people were starting to explain,
well what happened, well, stories started coming out that he
(01:42):
sandbagged certain interviews or was brash. Bruce Feldman wrote an
article that I read he not only didn't compete at
the Senior Bowl or NFL scouting Combine, a former NFL
quarterback coach. Feldman spoke was Sunday morning, said not surprising.
The intel I was getting on Sanders was shocking. He
had no self awareness, So why did he drop? Am
(02:05):
I surprised? Shocked? Actually I would have taken him if
I was the Steelers. But between his dad, Dion, who
has many friends in the media, saying during the Super Bowl,
on multiple interviews, we will dictate terms we will not
play for certain teams, and then between Sanders should or
sandbagging interviews, that probably explains it. So I'll tell you
(02:27):
after the show. Friday, before round two, I talked to
two different times an executive in the league asking questions,
what do you think of go? He in This executive
said to me, he said, if he doesn't go in
the first six to eight picks at the top of
the second round, then people view him as a backup.
(02:48):
And I and I'll quote it here, I'm not sure
how many teams want that circus in the building as
a backup. Remember Tim Tebow, celebrity backup a mess in
New York. Bill Belichick made a decision once Mac Jones
beat him out in New England. Remember they let Cam go.
(03:08):
Nobody wants a celebrity backup quarterback, especially when Dion the
Dad waited until mid to late March to say, okay,
now anybody can draft my son.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
So now, was I surprised?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, Pittsburgh didn't have a quarterback in a division with
Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. I mean, I don't know
who their quarterback is. But Daniel Jeremiah, a former three
time scout on the NFL Network, made a very interesting point.
Jeremiah is really good at what he does. He was
quoted as saying that the one quarterback that he thought
(03:41):
was similar to Shador Sanders was Kenny Pickett. And what
Daniel Jeremiah said, Well, they did Kenny Pickett and they
got burned. And they may have looked at it and said, yeah,
we've done that kind of quarterback before. Not a big
arm moves, Okay, okay, decent numbers you ever got pass
on that?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And Pittsburgh did.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Remember Shador Sanders also said this words matter, people listen.
He said this at the NFL combine. Shadeur said, quote,
if you ain't trying to change the franchise the culture,
don't get me. Teams listened. They didn't get him. So
the league sent out a very clear message. Cam Ward
was indisputably the best prospect and maybe close to an
(04:27):
A prospect, but everybody else was a B in a
C prospect. And in life, if you're not an A,
then you have to get the intangibles right right, you're intangibles.
For Dak Prescott, DA's never thrown an A ball, but
he was an A plus plus with intangibles. That brought
Purty small not a great apth A plus plus with intangibles.
(04:51):
People are telling you they didn't like some of Shador's intangibles.
Remember March and April. NFL doesn't know you anything. March
in April are job interview months. And in February and
early March, Dad Dion was saying, will set terms. There
are teams he won't play for. So I don't think
this is all on shuduor but you know, somebody made
(05:14):
a point this morning in our staff meeting. It's almost
like you're a young actor and you'd only ever been
in your dad's movies, and then you interviewed with some
other directors to finally not be in one of your
dad's movies, and you kind of lack self awareness in
turns some people off.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
So when I.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Hear he's sand bagged interviews or was not a professional
from people I trust, that goes a long way and
explaining it. And I believe I said this years ago
about backup quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I said this more than once.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
A perfect backup quarterback is a guy that could go
to the local mall, put sunglasses in a baseball hat
on walk through the mall and nobody would bother him,
nobody would recognize him. Your starting quarterback in the NFL
is going to be a star, right All starting quarterbacks
in their towns are stars. A backup nobody wants a celebrity,
and so that's the downside. I don't blame only Shoulder,
(06:10):
but when you hear he's sandbag interviews, that's what Dad did.
Dion sandbag interviews, legendarily sandbagged interviews. Bragged about sandbagging interviews.
But Dion was an a plus plus plus prospect, the
best corner of all time. Everybody knew going into this
draft that Shuner wasn't a great arm guy. I would
have drafted him, not a mobile guy. I would have
(06:30):
drafted him. I was shocked by it, and I was
told be very if he doesn't go in the first
six to eight picks. At the top of the second round,
people are telling you they see him as a backup.
Peter Schrager used to work here, now works at ESPN
also brought up an interesting point. Dion has worked for
so many media outlets and has so many friends in
the NFL.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
You know, nobody wanted to give him the truth. Your
son's okay.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And then once the noise noise scares a lot of teams, especially.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
At one position.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
The discussions are always different about quarterbacks than non quarterbacks.
When I talked to NFL people, we always talk about toughness,
we talk about productivity and speed and vertical. When you
talk about quarterbacks, it's leadership. Will guys follow them over
a hill? Is he a foxhole guy? The conversation changes,
so and I got a lot of different thoughts on this.
We're actually defend shad Or on something that I thought
(07:21):
he did a really good job on. But Cleveland drafted him.
There are those that believed that the GM and the
coach didn't want to draft him. They'd already drafted a quarterback,
and Jimmy Haslam, the owner, stepped in like you did
with Jashaun Watson. Needless, regardless, here's Andrew Berry on the pick.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Once it got to a point where it felt like
it was at you know, a pret steep discount, we
just felt like, hey, especially relative to the alternative ways
that we could use the selection, this made the most sense.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
All right, More on that in a bit. Their reaction
was stoic, to be honest, not the most excited looking
draft room, to be honest. Okay, the Lakers are in
big trouble. They pushed all their chips in against Minnesota.
For the first time an NBA playoff history, a team
played only five players in an entire half, They never subbed.
(08:11):
They called the death lineup, and eventually it was for them. Meanwhile,
Minnesota a deeper, bigger roster, with far more dexterity, far
more options. The Lakers, JJ Reddick basically told you our
roster has limitations. There's an old thing in the NBA
in the playoffs that you play eight guys, but you
trust seven. JJ Reddick played five guys and trusted four,
(08:35):
and they almost pulled it off. But did you notice
that Lebron looked tired by the end. He didn't score
in the fourth quarter, and Luca looked tired at the end,
never been in the world's best shape. And here was
Aunt Edwards once again. If you go look at fourth
quarter numbers in this series, Luca against Aunt Edwards, the
(09:00):
Minnesota Timberwolves, without question, points, assists, rebounding, field goal percentage.
The best player in the fourth quarter in this series
has consistently been Ant Edwards. That's how you win a
playoffs series and quickly maturing, quickly defining basketball player. So
(09:20):
the t Wolves are deeper and Edwards is the best player.
But I think more than anything, remember when the Lakers
made that trade the Lucasing and Mark Williams, a center.
Remember that whole deal Mark Williams. They were going to
get a Mark Williams, the center who'd been injured, but
he was a definitive NBA big, big, wide body shot blocker,
(09:41):
and then it got canceled because team doctors wouldn't give
it a pass. In LA Well, JJ Reddick was telling you, Yeah,
I wasn't part of that decision because he won't play
Jackson Hayes. And you're not beating Minnesota without some bigs.
I mean, Julius Randall, who's never been good in the playoffs,
is having a tremendous series on three pointers. So why
Randall's a big. He's getting good looks. And so you know,
(10:04):
JJ Reddick's telling you this roster needs tweaking. I'm playing five,
I may play I may trust four. And here was
JJ after.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
We've certainly played well enough to win, and we gave
the effort to win, and you know, the not a
planned thing to play five guys in the entire second half.
We asked him at the beginning of the fourth quarter,
told them we had two extra timeouts. You know, if
you need to sub let us know. Those guys gave
gave a lot. I think once you've kind of made
(10:35):
that decision, you know, and that they all are in,
you just got to trust them.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Aunt Edwards led the NBA this year in clutch regular
season points. Minnesota as a basketball team was in all
sorts of games like this. They led the NBA in
clutch games, meaning close, tight, hard fought games. That's what
the t Wolves did all regular season. They were built
(11:05):
for it. In Aunt Edwards, whose three point shot improved dramatically,
he was built for it. They now have a three
to one series lead. They'll be well rested, will the
Lakers will be as well. The next game is Wednesday,
and here's Ant.
Speaker 7 (11:19):
I'm just trying to take advantage of every opportunity. I mean,
because you know, I've been dreaming of this all my life,
whether it was football or basketball. So just being in
these situations and now it's going against Brunn and Luca,
and Luca probably the best player in the game, young
player in the game, and Brun is the best player
leaving the game. So just trying to, you know, prove
(11:41):
I belong and to all my haters and people who
criticize me that I'm better than they think.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Ant is officially the best young player in the game.
Did you see him battling Lebron. He's like I got Lebron.
Did you see that wrestling match? You're not getting that
from Luke on the defensive end. Offense runs the league.
I'm not denying that, but look at Ant's fourth quarter numbers.
His energy is through the roof. Not just his points,
(12:09):
but his field goal percentage. Look at Luca's field goal percentage.
Guys get tired. Shots are flat.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
So if you if you.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Want one of the things that made Jordan, we only
showed Jordan's offensive highlights. What made Michael Jordan great was
his relentless defense along with his relentless offense and clutch
play in the fourth core Michael's energy. You could go
to quadruple overtime. Michael's energy, even when he was sick
(12:38):
the Utah games, was just better than other players. Look
at Ant's fourth quarters. That is young inimpeccable shape. Because
Ant previously first couple of years he would wear down
Layton games.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
He does it anymore. He picks his spots.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
He is putting up forty two percent three point in
the fourth and your pet, your best defender on him.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So he has arrived.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
He has got the argument to me as the best
young player in the game.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
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Speaker 1 (13:15):
App Not kind of really a mean thing happened, sort
of cruel that Shador Sanders apparently got pranked called during
the draft. They found out who it was. It was
Jack's Olbrik. His dad's a coach for the Atlanta Falcons.
He somehow got the number. And it's really dumb. And
young men do really dumb things every weekend in this country,
(13:36):
fight at bars, drive too fast, and get hurt. Seventeen
to twenty four year old men, according to FBI data,
commit the most crime. Your frontal lobes not fully developed.
Young men do dumb stuff. And I have six kids
in my life and they've all done something dumb. And
I did things that were dumber, maybe not as this dumb,
but I did dumb stuff too. I don't like it.
It's cruel, It's not what you should do. And the
(13:56):
kid did call Shador and apologized, but to watch them
as reaction, they're more bothered by this than other actions
that happen all the time in this league that deserve
more criticism. The kid did something really dumb and then
called Shadur and apologized.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
When these kind of moments happen in life, and this
happened to Shador, I'm often captivated by how people handle it.
And did anybody watch how Shadeur Sanders handled it? It
was really impressive. He said, it's okay, everybody makes mistakes. Wow,
that's really adult. Why members older members of the media
(14:39):
are wrecked by it and deeply bothered that he fell.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
In the draft. He wasn't He kept the thing the thing.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
He's not going to hold a grudge, and you'll find
that as a habit among winners in life. Generally, they're
not grudge holders. They focus on what matters. Shadeur Sanders
came out when somebody played a real cruel joke, unacceptable,
and he said it's okay, it's okay, people make mistakes.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
That is an incredibly impressive reaction.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
And as he dropped in the draft, here's what he
said about going to Cleveland.
Speaker 8 (15:19):
I know I'm gonna fit in perfectly. I feel like
it's first getting in showing the respect to the bets,
showing them, uh, you know, I I'm ready to work,
So did coaches and have them understand, you know, I'm
I'm here ready to work today. Can actually understand the
real mean That's what I'm truly thankful to have, is
the opportunity for people to actually see the real me
and not be able to receive, you know, stuff that
(15:41):
could be true or not. That's what I'm most excited
about being in the building.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Wow, I mean Aaron Rodgers dropped a few draft picks,
was bitter should Sanders dropped for the fifth round, and
he's like, I can't wait to get into the building,
show respect to the veterans he gets ranked. He could
have had a multitude of reactions. He's like a kid
made a mistake. We're all gonna be okay. People make mistakes.
(16:09):
That makes me want to root for Shador Sanders. You
guys can throw tizzy fits reacting to the dropping in
the draft. By the way, Kyle McCord dropped, he went
later than I thought, and he went to the Philadelphia Eagles.
And by the way, Will Howard he went really late too.
He went to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Like this idea that
(16:32):
going high in the draft and to really bad franchises
is always the answer. The truth is Joe Flackel will
probably win that Brown's job. My guess is Shadeur Sanders
easily because he was underdrafted, he will easily win the
backup role over Dylan Gabriel and Kenny Pickett easily. And
(16:53):
then by Thanksgiving, I'm gonna make a bet Shadoor Sanders
is gonna play and be the starting quarterback.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
But I was.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Really impressed as everybody was freaking out. Maybe it's because
I've had so many kids in my life. The kids
do dumb stuff. Young boys do really dumb stuff. And
I didn't like it at all, and it made me
mad and I thought it was cruel. But how shaduor
handled it told me, Okay, that's the kind of compartmentalization, attitude,
(17:21):
and maturity.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
You get from veteran quarterbacks that flourish.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
They don't pout, they're not punitive, they don't hold a grudge. Hey,
everybody makes mistakes. It is that kind of even temperament
that blew me away. I mean, I'm sitting there thinking
if my kid was a quarterback and somebody did this
to my kid, I'd be really hurt and maybe should
do or was, But that reaction A plus plus. He
(17:51):
may have a B arm and a B minus mobility,
but that temperament in that moment A plus plus.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
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That's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Here we go, hour two.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It is a Monday live in Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
It's the Herd.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Wild weekend.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Shador Sanders drops in the draft. Matt Hasselbeck will be
joining us here in about five minutes to talk about that.
I did think the Seahawks had the best draft. I
thought Cleveland did really well.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Cleveland and the Rams both.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Got another first round pick for next year, which is
a significantly.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Stronger quarterback draft, and they both need them one for now.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Cleveland needs a quarterback, which, by the way, Shador Sanders
has the second best odds according to DraftKings to be
the starting quarterback, not Flacco. If you know how his
number one odds Kenny Pick. He's feeding out Kenny Pick.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Don't bet that people.
Speaker 11 (19:49):
By the way, I thought you're taking the first hour
on the prink call much better than your NBA fouls tape.
Speaker 12 (19:54):
But I have to ask you this.
Speaker 11 (19:56):
I talked about it on my podcast, Like, were you
as a kid making prink calls? Everybody did, yes, yes,
but you weren't ruining someone's like special moment like the.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Prank calls we made.
Speaker 11 (20:05):
There used to be a WWF wrestler who lived in
our area, so we would prank call him at sleepovers
and be like imitate Macho Man.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Oh yeah, Macho Man and Rady Savage of Rick Flair.
We would do that stuff.
Speaker 11 (20:16):
But it wasn't like like his NFL Draft ball.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
He wasn't going to like the wrestling hall.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
By the way, it didn't ruin it because twenty minutes later.
Speaker 11 (20:26):
He had his mind, I know, but it was you
had a good take on it. It's again we disagreemed.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Some young kid did something really mean and really dumb,
and that's what young twenty one year old.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
As a parent, By the way, how do you punish
that kid? What's the punishment?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
My punishment is get on the phone, call immediately and
apologize and let the nation. They're going to take shots
at you, and you have them all coming I don't
need to spank him like. By the way, public humiliation
is very powerful. I didn't grow up with Twitter, thank goodness. Yeah,
Twitter's very powerful to make you feel bad about yourself.
We have self esteem studies being done everywhere globally. People
(21:05):
now are saying the best thing you can do as
a parent. Psychologists are saying this, get him off social media. Yeah,
so being crushed on social media, being publicly humiliated, and
he was his punishment.
Speaker 11 (21:17):
And by the way, how does the defensive coordinator leave
his iPad around open with schadurd Sanders phone number on
there when they drafted Michael Pennox last year. I'm not
calling BS on that, but something feels a little fishy.
Now do you leave your iPad open with the phone
numbers the executives you talked to?
Speaker 4 (21:34):
I trust my kids, you know, So all right?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Colin right? Colin wrong?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
On a Monday, here we go.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Aunt Edwards continues to be the best young player in
the game. And I said this last week, not a
GM in this league would take Jahn Morant over Aunt Edwards.
Jah got swept okay, and Edwards is dominating fourth quarters
and three years ago Jahn Morant was the better player. Clearly,
that is not close to the case. Ant takes on
(22:05):
lebrawn and can play a rigorous, strong, physical, intimidating defensive game.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Jaw can't.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
You are looking at in my opinion that the best
domestic player in the league right now at his age
certainly Aunt.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Edwards where Colin was raw.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I thought Shador Sanders was the second best quarterback. I
washedon college football to cam Ward and listen, he fell out.
There's a lot of explanations for it. To complete seventy
four percent of your throws behind a terrible offensive line
is impressive, but there's enough bad tape out there with
him that it didn't blow people away. I do think
he will win the starting job at some point next year.
(22:47):
And don't listen to Jmac that is a tasty bat.
Take Shadur to eventually start for the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I would have taken him if I was Pittsburgh. I
don't know what Pittsburgh's thinking. Must already have Aaron.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Rodgers where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
You know, I don't like to pick on kids, but
I was never a quin Eewers fan. I didn't get
it one year ago, people said he could be the
first quarterback taken.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I didn't buy it. I never had.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I know he's a five star high school quarterback. I
know he won a bunch of games with Texas. I
don't see it he was the thirteenth quarterback taken.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
I just he had.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Great protection at unbelievable wide receivers at Texas and made
some incredibly big throws. But I never watched him during
college football and thought that's a franchise quarterback, and he
ended up being the thirteenth quarterback taken.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Where Colin was raw, I.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Thought the Chicago Bears were gonna go heavy defense in
the draft because they've spent so much money on offense.
They said nope, tight end, wide receiver, offensive tackle with
their first three picks. I liked the picks, but I mean,
they have so much talent on offense. Colston Lovelin one
of my favorite players. No excuses for Kayleb Williams. Ben
(23:58):
Johnson is clearly run in the draft room. Because they
are going free agency and drafting, their best picks and
pickups are offense.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Where Colin was right, I said for the.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Last month, I think the Raiders are the perfect pick
for Ashton Genty because Geno Smith, historically, when he has
a run game and can throw on play action.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Is actually a really good quarterback.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
You go look to his career on play action is
one hundred and six passer rating. So now they've got
their quarterback in Gino, a star tight end, a star
running back, Colton Miller, a left tackle, and they went
and picked up some running some wide receivers. They also
have Chip Kelly and Pete Carroll. I don't know how
the Raiders are going to do, but I thought this
was the perfect pick. I loved everything. And at five
(24:45):
to eight people say he's small. It is hard to
get leverage on five eight running backs. Nobody bounces off
more college defenders than Ashton Genty where Colin was raw.
Boy did I miss on the Lakers series. I had
the Lakers in five because I thought they were better offensively,
but JJ Reddick has made it very clear he doesn't
(25:05):
trust Jackson Hayes. Translation, we're gonna play small ball, and
Minnesota's dominating the boards. They're more physical, they've got more
rotational options. The Lakers are playing five dudes, and Luca
looked tired at the end. Lebron was tired at the end,
and the Lakers have been outscored by six or more
(25:25):
in every fourth quarter, and a lot of that is
Minnesota is fresher. Where Colin was right, I thought the
Pacers were gonna fly through the Bucks. The Dame injury stinks,
but I just think Indiana's got more good players in
their prime. I think Indiana's got the best talent in
the league that nobody talks about. I really like the
Pacers and I don't like the Bucks. And I've said
(25:46):
this for three years. They're too Yanna's centric, and the
big problem is that's okay.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
The Nuggets are.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Joki centric, but I trust Jokic at the free throw
line rate late. I do not trust Yannis at the
free throw line late so much like Shack, you didn't
want him at the line even though he was dominant.
So for me, it's time to blow up this roster.
Where Colin was wrong. I had been told that a
wide receiver t Mac from Arizona. A lot of people
(26:14):
had cooled on him, but it only takes one and
Carolina drafted him with the eighth pick. I thought some
of the draft analysis on him was interesting. People theorized
that Bryce Young is a smaller quarterback and therefore the
long and lanky t Mac is easier to see. Never
thought about that. Probably true, but yeah, it takes one.
(26:38):
I'd heard teams that cooled on him. Did he love football?
Where can you use him? He's kind of a strider,
doesn't get off the line good enough. I was wrong,
And with that eighteen years in the NFL mad house,
you know, it's funny about quarterbacks. A year ago. Everybody's
(26:59):
like when you were first round. Two years ago, Sam Hell,
first round, so you get lied to a lot about
this stuff.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Things changed.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I mean when when he dropped in the draft, Shador Sanders,
what was your immediate first and second take on that.
Speaker 12 (27:13):
I was a little bit surprised.
Speaker 13 (27:15):
But there really weren't that many teams that were desperate
for a quarterback.
Speaker 12 (27:19):
I mean, obviously Tennessee.
Speaker 13 (27:20):
You know there's something out there with Pittsburgh. The Giants
were a player Pittsburgh, you know, wondering about the Aaron
Rodgers thing. But like, once he fell, it was clear
he was going to fall for you know, he could
fall pretty far. And there were some great quarterbacks and
for me, as a sixth round pick pick one eight seven.
Speaker 12 (27:36):
I was kind of, in my mind a little bit
like crimea River.
Speaker 13 (27:39):
You know, there's some good players out there, Kyle McCord,
Riley Leonard, will Howard. But I do think Shedor Sanders
is a really good quarterback.
Speaker 12 (27:46):
I think he's talented.
Speaker 8 (27:48):
Uh.
Speaker 13 (27:48):
Clearly, his film was a lot better than I think
maybe some of the interactions and some of the lead
up to the draft, and that probably gave some people
some pause, some teams that might have taken him to
to go elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So I would put Travis Hunter on offense, mostly because
I could target him twelve times and get him the ball,
Whereas I'd rather do that than him used as a
decoy chasing around quarterbacks and not be part.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Of the play.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
So and I think he will be a prolific offensive player.
But I do wonder on Tuesday or Wednesday during install
and he's in the offensive meeting and not in the
defensive meeting. Is that problematic?
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (28:28):
I think there's like a lot of people don't understand
how it works, like in a real work week for
an NFL team. I mean, I could see a scout
being like, oh man, this guy's awesome. He could play offense,
he could play defense. But the reality of the process.
You here coaches talk about process. Wednesday is all first
and second down offensive defense. Do the exact same thing
every day during the week. Thursday is all third down,
(28:51):
third down and two minutes. Friday is red zone, shortyardage,
goal line. Saturday is kind of a walk through, mock
game situation, you know, hail Mary, end of game type situations.
Obviously you play the game on Sunday. So really, I
think this is going to be a real challenge for
the coaches and for the player. Playing the actual game
is not the hard part, Like that's physically.
Speaker 12 (29:14):
Not a big deal.
Speaker 13 (29:15):
The preparation you spend all day studying the intricacies and
tendencies on third down of your own playbook of your opponent.
Speaker 12 (29:23):
I just don't know how they're gonna do that.
Speaker 13 (29:24):
They're gonna have to get creative, and the coaches are
going to have to be the ones to adjust.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I was really surprised the Bears the last two years
in free agency have mostly gone offense, and last year
in the draft, you know, better picks, they went offense.
So I would theorize, Okay, they're gonna figure this defense
out and they went tight end, wide receiver, offensive tackle.
I'm like, Ben Johnson is running the draft room. I think,
did it surprise you? What did you make of that? Well?
Speaker 13 (29:50):
I think it's if you're a Bears fan, you're really
excited to see that Ben Johnson and Ryan Pols are together,
Like I think they're on the same page. That's not
something you can say in Chicago for a long long time,
But I think they setting this up to find out
if Caleb Williams is in fact Ben Johnson's guy. And
you know, clearly he's got the ability, he's got the potential.
(30:10):
We have not seen the execution on the field, so
you know, obviously he goes out and gets his Sam
Laporta type guy at tight end. He's got the wide receivers,
he's building up front with the old line. He goes
and gets Azzie Trapillo at an underrated second round pick.
I think it's gonna be all set up for Caleb
to either be the guy or not be the guy
(30:30):
going forward. I love the draft. I really love what
they did. They did in Chicago, but now the pressure's
on the young quarterback.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I had said this earlier.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I talked to an NFL executive on Friday after the show,
and he said, he goes, if Shador doesn't get drafted
by like the thirty eighth pick, so six picks into
the second round, he's being viewed as a backup, and
some people aren't going They're not gonna do that circus
as a backup. He goes, keep your eye on mill
(31:01):
Everybody loves that kid, and he's not ready to play,
so there'll be no pressure on the starter. So John
Snyder to me is about as good as a personnel
guy as the league has. I thought the Seahawks had
the best draft, you know, the organization. Well, what do
you make so I get taking Milroll over Shador because
Sam's starting for two years, let's not threaten him. What
did you make of the pick? And what did you
(31:21):
make of the Seahawks draft?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (31:24):
I agree with really everything that you're saying there. And
you know, I just go back to even on the
quarterback thing. I think I've told you before two coaches
that came and sort of like worked me out when
I was in college where Sean Payton and Andy Reid,
neither one of.
Speaker 12 (31:40):
Them worked me out.
Speaker 13 (31:41):
Sean Payton took me to lunch and Andy Reid hung
out in a whiteboard meeting room with me and we talked.
They both, I think, wanted to see if I was
the kind of guy that they wanted in their quarterback room,
that they wanted in their locker room. The person that
I was like, it was I going to fit in
their team. And I think what I've learned in eighteen
years in the NFL is that humility is respected in
(32:02):
the locker room. So I think, like when you're talking
about a Jalen Milroe as an example, he's everything you're
looking for and a guy you're adding to your team,
adding to your locker room, adding to your quarterback room.
Your quarterback coach wants to coach a guy like that.
You hear Mike McDonald talk about, Hey, he's special as
a quarterback in the traditional sense, but when this guy
(32:24):
like when things break down. As a defensive coordinator, my
biggest fear as a decordinator play caller is when the
guy has the ability to go do something with it
as a runner as well, and Milroe certainly certainly is
exceptional in that regard. So yeah, to your point, the Seahawks,
they went and got their Steve Hutchinson type offensive lineman,
no nonsense, versatile, you know, potential Hall of Famer type talent.
(32:48):
And then you know, like obviously you know later on
they replace Gino with Milroe, they.
Speaker 12 (32:54):
Add depth where they need to ad depth.
Speaker 13 (32:56):
They get their Cam Chancellor in the second round, trying
to rebuild that legion of boom, the Kyle Hamilton type
guy that McDonald was using with Baltimore. I mean, they're
in love with their draft right now, and I think
Seahawk fans are as well.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Okay, I thought the Raiders asked in Genty. I thought
he fit Chip Kelly. I thought he was what they need.
I think Gino's always proven on play action. He's a
more than capable NFL quarterback. I loved that pick. That's
one of the few we called.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
What did you make of it?
Speaker 13 (33:25):
Yeah, we talked about it in March. I think you
asked me the question what I think about it? And
it's an identity pick. I think in that division two,
with the great quarterbacks and the great offenses in that division,
Pete Carroll views a great running game as an extension
of the defense. He's got this formula in play calling.
How many times do I run it? Plus how many
(33:45):
times do I have a completion? And that's my formula
ball Security is another major factor. But when you go
back to who Pete Carroll was at SC with Lendel
White and Reggie Bush, and then who he was in
Seattle with Marshawn Lynch, this fits him exactly. And I
would even say that, you know, if you really study
what Chip Kelly was last year as the play caller
(34:07):
at Ohio State, this was a run first team and
this was a b the hammer, not the nail kind
of a mindset that I think both coaches have perfect fit.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I am guessing that the Steelers have some sort of
deal with Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron just said, I'll wait
to see how the draft plays out, and if you
don't draft a starter, I'll come aboard.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Will Howard's a backup.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Right now, I'm guessing because otherwise I don't know what
Pittsburgh's doing at quarterback.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
What do you think they're doing with Aaron?
Speaker 13 (34:39):
Yeah, I think you nailed it. I mean, I have
no insight info. But this whole time, when everyone's all
this chatter, what's Aaron Rodgers waiting for? You either want
to be a Steeler or you don't guys, do you
remember what happened last year? Kirk Cousins signed a huge
deal to go to Atlanta and then they picked a
quarterback like eighth overall or something like that. He's waiting
for the draft. He doesn't want to be a lame
duck quarterback. This is the perfect team for him. Pittsburgh's
(35:01):
the perfect fit. He's waiting till after the draft. So
you don't do something sort of foolish. Go get me
more weapons, don't go draft my replacement. And that's essentially
how I think the draft played out. They got a
really talented quarterback in the sixth, sixth round, and Will
Howard that's not a threat.
Speaker 12 (35:19):
He's more of a project.
Speaker 13 (35:20):
Maybe have a guy that's like, Hey, I really like
this guy. I would like to sort of mentor this guy.
I like what the Steelers did that way. And I
do think there was a handshake agreement. Let's wait till
after the draft and then we'll then we'll talk and
get your pen out and we'll put this thing to
paper for.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
The record, A team will go into camp with twelve linebackers,
fourteen offensive linemen or more, but generally you don't have
five quarterbacks. How do you how does Cleveland figure out?
I mean, I think Chador is gonna win the job eventually,
but it is a lot of snaps. Dylan Gabriel, Kenny
pick it, Joe Flackel, how's that gonna work?
Speaker 13 (35:58):
It doesn't honestly call, and it doesn't feel like a
head coach GM draft pick. For that reason, it feels
like an ownership draft pick. It feels like, you know,
they had a plan and then all of a sudden,
someone who ranks higher than them said, Hey, why don't
we do this?
Speaker 12 (36:14):
And so something's got to change.
Speaker 13 (36:16):
There's not enough reps for three guys really, never mind five,
So I wouldn't be surprised to see somebody get traded
at some point.
Speaker 12 (36:25):
That's just the nature of how it goes.
Speaker 13 (36:27):
But I remember being my first year, I was the
fourth string quarterback for the Green Bay Packers, and like
I said, there's nothing to do. Essentially, they used me
as a practice squad tight end at practice. So somebody's
got to go. Somebody's got to go, and that's a
that's an interesting dynamic in that room. Obviously, people will
be talking about that one and watching it very closely.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
By the way, finally, the outpouring of affection to you
on the passing of your father, I think speaks volumes
about the Hasslebeck family and you in particular. I have
met your father, I've met your family before, and I
just think, I just we want to pass along how
much we think of you. And it was it warmed
my heart to see the outpouring of affection by the
(37:12):
Internet towards your family, my man, and you know, we
think thanks calling.
Speaker 13 (37:15):
Yeah, my dad was larger than life in a lot
of ways, and I hope we honored him at his funeral.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
He was.
Speaker 13 (37:21):
He's a great man and still in shock a little bit,
but it's he'll be definitely missed.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
All right.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Matt Hasselbeck one of the really good guys in our profession.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Eighteen years in the NFL.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
All Right, it is Monday, after the draft and with
the NBA playoffs revving up. Look at those Tea Wolves,
Lakers in trouble and reeling.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
We are live.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It's the Herd wherever you may be and however you
may be listening one hour from now. Colin was right,
Colin was wrong. We have plenty of both well. Jmack.
It's funny. I have said this for a long time.
I've been saying this for about a decade. You never
get lied to more in our business than a month
(01:01):
before the NFL Draft. I've said that one hundred times.
You get so much misinformation fed to you, as mel
kiper a month before the NFL Draft. So a lot
of stories we start with us as Shader Sanders was
sliding suddenly stories started to pop out from Justina Anderson,
(01:22):
Todd mcshae a, Jonathan Jones, NFL insider for CBS. Stuff
that wasn't out there as much pre draft. I mean,
we knew that legendary draft room. We could see that
was a bit cringe. But when people were starting to explain,
well what happened, well, stories started coming out that he
(01:42):
sandbagged certain interviews or was brash. Bruce Feldman wrote an
article that I read he not only didn't compete at
the Senior Bowl or NFL scouting Combine, a former NFL
quarterback coach. Feldman spoke was Sunday morning, said not surprising.
The intel I was getting on Sanders was shocking. He
had no self awareness, So why did he drop? Am
(02:05):
I surprised? Shocked? Actually I would have taken him if
I was the Steelers. But between his dad, Dion, who
has many friends in the media, saying during the Super Bowl,
on multiple interviews, we will dictate terms we will not
play for certain teams, and then between Sanders should or
sandbagging interviews, that probably explains it. So I'll tell you
(02:27):
after the show. Friday, before round two, I talked to
two different times an executive in the league asking questions,
what do you think of go? He in This executive
said to me, he said, if he doesn't go in
the first six to eight picks at the top of
the second round, then people view him as a backup.
(02:48):
And I and I'll quote it here, I'm not sure
how many teams want that circus in the building as
a backup. Remember Tim Tebow, celebrity backup a mess in
New York. Bill Belichick made a decision once Mac Jones
beat him out in New England. Remember they let Cam go.
(03:08):
Nobody wants a celebrity backup quarterback, especially when Dion the
Dad waited until mid to late March to say, okay,
now anybody can draft my son.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
So now, was I surprised?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yes, Pittsburgh didn't have a quarterback in a division with
Joe Burrow and Lamar Jackson. I mean, I don't know
who their quarterback is. But Daniel Jeremiah, a former three
time scout on the NFL Network, made a very interesting point.
Jeremiah is really good at what he does. He was
quoted as saying that the one quarterback that he thought
(03:41):
was similar to Shador Sanders was Kenny Pickett. And what
Daniel Jeremiah said, Well, they did Kenny Pickett and they
got burned. And they may have looked at it and said, yeah,
we've done that kind of quarterback before. Not a big
arm moves, Okay, okay, decent numbers you ever got pass
on that?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
And Pittsburgh did.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Remember Shador Sanders also said this words matter, people listen.
He said this at the NFL combine. Shadeur said, quote,
if you ain't trying to change the franchise the culture,
don't get me. Teams listened. They didn't get him. So
the league sent out a very clear message. Cam Ward
was indisputably the best prospect and maybe close to an
(04:27):
A prospect, but everybody else was a B in a
C prospect. And in life, if you're not an A,
then you have to get the intangibles right right, you're intangibles.
For Dak Prescott, DA's never thrown an A ball, but
he was an A plus plus with intangibles. That brought
Purty small not a great apth A plus plus with intangibles.
(04:51):
People are telling you they didn't like some of Shador's intangibles.
Remember March and April. NFL doesn't know you anything. March
in April are job interview months. And in February and
early March, Dad Dion was saying, will set terms. There
are teams he won't play for. So I don't think
this is all on shuduor but you know, somebody made
(05:14):
a point this morning in our staff meeting. It's almost
like you're a young actor and you'd only ever been
in your dad's movies, and then you interviewed with some
other directors to finally not be in one of your
dad's movies, and you kind of lack self awareness in
turns some people off.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
So when I.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Hear he's sand bagged interviews or was not a professional
from people I trust, that goes a long way and
explaining it. And I believe I said this years ago
about backup quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I said this more than once.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
A perfect backup quarterback is a guy that could go
to the local mall, put sunglasses in a baseball hat
on walk through the mall and nobody would bother him,
nobody would recognize him. Your starting quarterback in the NFL
is going to be a star, right All starting quarterbacks
in their towns are stars. A backup nobody wants a celebrity,
and so that's the downside. I don't blame only Shoulder,
(06:10):
but when you hear he's sandbag interviews, that's what Dad did.
Dion sandbag interviews, legendarily sandbagged interviews. Bragged about sandbagging interviews.
But Dion was an a plus plus plus prospect, the
best corner of all time. Everybody knew going into this
draft that Shuner wasn't a great arm guy. I would
have drafted him, not a mobile guy. I would have
(06:30):
drafted him. I was shocked by it, and I was
told be very if he doesn't go in the first
six to eight picks. At the top of the second round,
people are telling you they see him as a backup.
Peter Schrager used to work here, now works at ESPN
also brought up an interesting point. Dion has worked for
so many media outlets and has so many friends in
the NFL.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
You know, nobody wanted to give him the truth. Your
son's okay.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
And then once the noise noise scares a lot of teams, especially.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
At one position.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
The discussions are always different about quarterbacks than non quarterbacks.
When I talked to NFL people, we always talk about toughness,
we talk about productivity and speed and vertical. When you
talk about quarterbacks, it's leadership. Will guys follow them over
a hill? Is he a foxhole guy? The conversation changes,
so and I got a lot of different thoughts on this.
We're actually defend shad Or on something that I thought
(07:21):
he did a really good job on. But Cleveland drafted him.
There are those that believed that the GM and the
coach didn't want to draft him. They'd already drafted a quarterback,
and Jimmy Haslam, the owner, stepped in like you did
with Jashaun Watson. Needless, regardless, here's Andrew Berry on the pick.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
Once it got to a point where it felt like
it was at you know, a pret steep discount, we
just felt like, hey, especially relative to the alternative ways
that we could use the selection, this made the most sense.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
All right, More on that in a bit. Their reaction
was stoic, to be honest, not the most excited looking
draft room, to be honest. Okay, the Lakers are in
big trouble. They pushed all their chips in against Minnesota.
For the first time an NBA playoff history, a team
played only five players in an entire half, They never subbed.
(08:11):
They called the death lineup, and eventually it was for them. Meanwhile,
Minnesota a deeper, bigger roster, with far more dexterity, far
more options. The Lakers, JJ Reddick basically told you our
roster has limitations. There's an old thing in the NBA
in the playoffs that you play eight guys, but you
trust seven. JJ Reddick played five guys and trusted four,
(08:35):
and they almost pulled it off. But did you notice
that Lebron looked tired by the end. He didn't score
in the fourth quarter, and Luca looked tired at the end,
never been in the world's best shape. And here was
Aunt Edwards once again. If you go look at fourth
quarter numbers in this series, Luca against Aunt Edwards, the
(09:00):
Minnesota Timberwolves, without question, points, assists, rebounding, field goal percentage.
The best player in the fourth quarter in this series
has consistently been Ant Edwards. That's how you win a
playoffs series and quickly maturing, quickly defining basketball player. So
(09:20):
the t Wolves are deeper and Edwards is the best player.
But I think more than anything, remember when the Lakers
made that trade the Lucasing and Mark Williams, a center.
Remember that whole deal Mark Williams. They were going to
get a Mark Williams, the center who'd been injured, but
he was a definitive NBA big, big, wide body shot blocker,
(09:41):
and then it got canceled because team doctors wouldn't give
it a pass. In LA Well, JJ Reddick was telling you, Yeah,
I wasn't part of that decision because he won't play
Jackson Hayes. And you're not beating Minnesota without some bigs.
I mean, Julius Randall, who's never been good in the playoffs,
is having a tremendous series on three pointers. So why
Randall's a big. He's getting good looks. And so you know,
(10:04):
JJ Reddick's telling you this roster needs tweaking. I'm playing five,
I may play I may trust four. And here was
JJ after.
Speaker 6 (10:14):
We've certainly played well enough to win, and we gave
the effort to win, and you know, the not a
planned thing to play five guys in the entire second half.
We asked him at the beginning of the fourth quarter,
told them we had two extra timeouts. You know, if
you need to sub let us know. Those guys gave
gave a lot. I think once you've kind of made
(10:35):
that decision, you know, and that they all are in,
you just got to trust them.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Aunt Edwards led the NBA this year in clutch regular
season points. Minnesota as a basketball team was in all
sorts of games like this. They led the NBA in
clutch games, meaning close, tight, hard fought games. That's what
the t Wolves did all regular season. They were built
(11:05):
for it. In Aunt Edwards, whose three point shot improved dramatically,
he was built for it. They now have a three
to one series lead. They'll be well rested, will the
Lakers will be as well. The next game is Wednesday,
and here's Ant.
Speaker 7 (11:19):
I'm just trying to take advantage of every opportunity. I mean,
because you know, I've been dreaming of this all my life,
whether it was football or basketball. So just being in
these situations and now it's going against Brunn and Luca,
and Luca probably the best player in the game, young
player in the game, and Brun is the best player
leaving the game. So just trying to, you know, prove
(11:41):
I belong and to all my haters and people who
criticize me that I'm better than they think.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Ant is officially the best young player in the game.
Did you see him battling Lebron. He's like I got Lebron.
Did you see that wrestling match? You're not getting that
from Luke on the defensive end. Offense runs the league.
I'm not denying that, but look at Ant's fourth quarter numbers.
His energy is through the roof. Not just his points,
(12:09):
but his field goal percentage. Look at Luca's field goal percentage.
Guys get tired. Shots are flat.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
So if you if you.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Want one of the things that made Jordan, we only
showed Jordan's offensive highlights. What made Michael Jordan great was
his relentless defense along with his relentless offense and clutch
play in the fourth core Michael's energy. You could go
to quadruple overtime. Michael's energy, even when he was sick
(12:38):
the Utah games, was just better than other players. Look
at Ant's fourth quarters. That is young inimpeccable shape. Because
Ant previously first couple of years he would wear down
Layton games.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
He does it anymore. He picks his spots.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
He is putting up forty two percent three point in
the fourth and your pet, your best defender on him.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
So he has arrived.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
He has got the argument to me as the best
young player in the game.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd Weekdays
and newone Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
App Not kind of really a mean thing happened, sort
of cruel that Shador Sanders apparently got pranked called during
the draft. They found out who it was. It was
Jack's Olbrik. His dad's a coach for the Atlanta Falcons.
He somehow got the number. And it's really dumb. And
young men do really dumb things every weekend in this country,
(13:36):
fight at bars, drive too fast, and get hurt. Seventeen
to twenty four year old men, according to FBI data,
commit the most crime. Your frontal lobes not fully developed.
Young men do dumb stuff. And I have six kids
in my life and they've all done something dumb. And
I did things that were dumber, maybe not as this dumb,
but I did dumb stuff too. I don't like it.
It's cruel, It's not what you should do. And the
(13:56):
kid did call Shador and apologized, but to watch them
as reaction, they're more bothered by this than other actions
that happen all the time in this league that deserve
more criticism. The kid did something really dumb and then
called Shadur and apologized.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
Here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
When these kind of moments happen in life, and this
happened to Shador, I'm often captivated by how people handle it.
And did anybody watch how Shadeur Sanders handled it? It
was really impressive. He said, it's okay, everybody makes mistakes. Wow,
that's really adult. Why members older members of the media
(14:39):
are wrecked by it and deeply bothered that he fell.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
In the draft. He wasn't He kept the thing the thing.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
He's not going to hold a grudge, and you'll find
that as a habit among winners in life. Generally, they're
not grudge holders. They focus on what matters. Shadeur Sanders
came out when somebody played a real cruel joke, unacceptable,
and he said it's okay, it's okay, people make mistakes.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
That is an incredibly impressive reaction.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
And as he dropped in the draft, here's what he
said about going to Cleveland.
Speaker 8 (15:19):
I know I'm gonna fit in perfectly. I feel like
it's first getting in showing the respect to the bets,
showing them, uh, you know, I I'm ready to work,
So did coaches and have them understand, you know, I'm
I'm here ready to work today. Can actually understand the
real mean That's what I'm truly thankful to have, is
the opportunity for people to actually see the real me
and not be able to receive, you know, stuff that
(15:41):
could be true or not. That's what I'm most excited
about being in the building.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Wow, I mean Aaron Rodgers dropped a few draft picks,
was bitter should Sanders dropped for the fifth round, and
he's like, I can't wait to get into the building,
show respect to the veterans he gets ranked. He could
have had a multitude of reactions. He's like a kid
made a mistake. We're all gonna be okay. People make mistakes.
(16:09):
That makes me want to root for Shador Sanders. You
guys can throw tizzy fits reacting to the dropping in
the draft. By the way, Kyle McCord dropped, he went
later than I thought, and he went to the Philadelphia Eagles.
And by the way, Will Howard he went really late too.
He went to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Like this idea that
(16:32):
going high in the draft and to really bad franchises
is always the answer. The truth is Joe Flackel will
probably win that Brown's job. My guess is Shadeur Sanders
easily because he was underdrafted, he will easily win the
backup role over Dylan Gabriel and Kenny Pickett easily. And
(16:53):
then by Thanksgiving, I'm gonna make a bet Shadoor Sanders
is gonna play and be the starting quarterback.
Speaker 5 (16:59):
But I was.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Really impressed as everybody was freaking out. Maybe it's because
I've had so many kids in my life. The kids
do dumb stuff. Young boys do really dumb stuff. And
I didn't like it at all, and it made me
mad and I thought it was cruel. But how shaduor
handled it told me, Okay, that's the kind of compartmentalization, attitude,
(17:21):
and maturity.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
You get from veteran quarterbacks that flourish.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
They don't pout, they're not punitive, they don't hold a grudge. Hey,
everybody makes mistakes. It is that kind of even temperament
that blew me away. I mean, I'm sitting there thinking
if my kid was a quarterback and somebody did this
to my kid, I'd be really hurt and maybe should
do or was, But that reaction A plus plus. He
(17:51):
may have a B arm and a B minus mobility,
but that temperament in that moment A plus plus.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Be sure to catch live edition, heard weekdays at noon
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Speaker 9 (18:03):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 10 (18:08):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
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Speaker 4 (18:15):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 10 (18:17):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
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Speaker 9 (18:21):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
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Speaker 3 (18:33):
I mean that says something, right. So check us out.
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Speaker 3 (18:57):
That's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Here we go, hour two.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
It is a Monday live in Los Angeles.
Speaker 4 (19:06):
It's the Herd.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Wild weekend.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Shador Sanders drops in the draft. Matt Hasselbeck will be
joining us here in about five minutes to talk about that.
I did think the Seahawks had the best draft. I
thought Cleveland did really well.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Cleveland and the Rams both.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Got another first round pick for next year, which is
a significantly.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Stronger quarterback draft, and they both need them one for now.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Cleveland needs a quarterback, which, by the way, Shador Sanders
has the second best odds according to DraftKings to be
the starting quarterback, not Flacco. If you know how his
number one odds Kenny Pick. He's feeding out Kenny Pick.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
Don't bet that people.
Speaker 11 (19:49):
By the way, I thought you're taking the first hour
on the prink call much better than your NBA fouls tape.
Speaker 12 (19:54):
But I have to ask you this.
Speaker 11 (19:56):
I talked about it on my podcast, Like, were you
as a kid making prink calls? Everybody did, yes, yes,
but you weren't ruining someone's like special moment like the.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Prank calls we made.
Speaker 11 (20:05):
There used to be a WWF wrestler who lived in
our area, so we would prank call him at sleepovers
and be like imitate Macho Man.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Oh yeah, Macho Man and Rady Savage of Rick Flair.
We would do that stuff.
Speaker 11 (20:16):
But it wasn't like like his NFL Draft ball.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
He wasn't going to like the wrestling hall.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
By the way, it didn't ruin it because twenty minutes later.
Speaker 11 (20:26):
He had his mind, I know, but it was you
had a good take on it. It's again we disagreemed.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Some young kid did something really mean and really dumb,
and that's what young twenty one year old.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
As a parent, By the way, how do you punish
that kid? What's the punishment?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
My punishment is get on the phone, call immediately and
apologize and let the nation. They're going to take shots
at you, and you have them all coming I don't
need to spank him like. By the way, public humiliation
is very powerful. I didn't grow up with Twitter, thank goodness. Yeah,
Twitter's very powerful to make you feel bad about yourself.
We have self esteem studies being done everywhere globally. People
(21:05):
now are saying the best thing you can do as
a parent. Psychologists are saying this, get him off social media. Yeah,
so being crushed on social media, being publicly humiliated, and
he was his punishment.
Speaker 11 (21:17):
And by the way, how does the defensive coordinator leave
his iPad around open with schadurd Sanders phone number on
there when they drafted Michael Pennox last year. I'm not
calling BS on that, but something feels a little fishy.
Now do you leave your iPad open with the phone
numbers the executives you talked to?
Speaker 4 (21:34):
I trust my kids, you know, So all right?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Colin right? Colin wrong?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
On a Monday, here we go.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Aunt Edwards continues to be the best young player in
the game. And I said this last week, not a
GM in this league would take Jahn Morant over Aunt Edwards.
Jah got swept okay, and Edwards is dominating fourth quarters
and three years ago Jahn Morant was the better player. Clearly,
that is not close to the case. Ant takes on
(22:05):
lebrawn and can play a rigorous, strong, physical, intimidating defensive game.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Jaw can't.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
You are looking at in my opinion that the best
domestic player in the league right now at his age
certainly Aunt.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Edwards where Colin was raw.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
I thought Shador Sanders was the second best quarterback. I
washedon college football to cam Ward and listen, he fell out.
There's a lot of explanations for it. To complete seventy
four percent of your throws behind a terrible offensive line
is impressive, but there's enough bad tape out there with
him that it didn't blow people away. I do think
he will win the starting job at some point next year.
(22:47):
And don't listen to Jmac that is a tasty bat.
Take Shadur to eventually start for the Cleveland Browns.
Speaker 4 (22:55):
I was wrong.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I would have taken him if I was Pittsburgh. I
don't know what Pittsburgh's thinking. Must already have Aaron.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Rodgers where Colin was right.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
You know, I don't like to pick on kids, but
I was never a quin Eewers fan. I didn't get
it one year ago, people said he could be the
first quarterback taken.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
I didn't buy it. I never had.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I know he's a five star high school quarterback. I
know he won a bunch of games with Texas. I
don't see it he was the thirteenth quarterback taken.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
I just he had.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Great protection at unbelievable wide receivers at Texas and made
some incredibly big throws. But I never watched him during
college football and thought that's a franchise quarterback, and he
ended up being the thirteenth quarterback taken.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Where Colin was raw, I.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Thought the Chicago Bears were gonna go heavy defense in
the draft because they've spent so much money on offense.
They said nope, tight end, wide receiver, offensive tackle with
their first three picks. I liked the picks, but I mean,
they have so much talent on offense. Colston Lovelin one
of my favorite players. No excuses for Kayleb Williams. Ben
(23:58):
Johnson is clearly run in the draft room. Because they
are going free agency and drafting, their best picks and
pickups are offense.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Where Colin was right, I said for the.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Last month, I think the Raiders are the perfect pick
for Ashton Genty because Geno Smith, historically, when he has
a run game and can throw on play action.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
Is actually a really good quarterback.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
You go look to his career on play action is
one hundred and six passer rating. So now they've got
their quarterback in Gino, a star tight end, a star
running back, Colton Miller, a left tackle, and they went
and picked up some running some wide receivers. They also
have Chip Kelly and Pete Carroll. I don't know how
the Raiders are going to do, but I thought this
was the perfect pick. I loved everything. And at five
(24:45):
to eight people say he's small. It is hard to
get leverage on five eight running backs. Nobody bounces off
more college defenders than Ashton Genty where Colin was raw.
Boy did I miss on the Lakers series. I had
the Lakers in five because I thought they were better offensively,
but JJ Reddick has made it very clear he doesn't
(25:05):
trust Jackson Hayes. Translation, we're gonna play small ball, and
Minnesota's dominating the boards. They're more physical, they've got more
rotational options. The Lakers are playing five dudes, and Luca
looked tired at the end. Lebron was tired at the end,
and the Lakers have been outscored by six or more
(25:25):
in every fourth quarter, and a lot of that is
Minnesota is fresher. Where Colin was right, I thought the
Pacers were gonna fly through the Bucks. The Dame injury stinks,
but I just think Indiana's got more good players in
their prime. I think Indiana's got the best talent in
the league that nobody talks about. I really like the
Pacers and I don't like the Bucks. And I've said
(25:46):
this for three years. They're too Yanna's centric, and the
big problem is that's okay.
Speaker 4 (25:52):
The Nuggets are.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Joki centric, but I trust Jokic at the free throw
line rate late. I do not trust Yannis at the
free throw line late so much like Shack, you didn't
want him at the line even though he was dominant.
So for me, it's time to blow up this roster.
Where Colin was wrong. I had been told that a
wide receiver t Mac from Arizona. A lot of people
(26:14):
had cooled on him, but it only takes one and
Carolina drafted him with the eighth pick. I thought some
of the draft analysis on him was interesting. People theorized
that Bryce Young is a smaller quarterback and therefore the
long and lanky t Mac is easier to see. Never
thought about that. Probably true, but yeah, it takes one.
(26:38):
I'd heard teams that cooled on him. Did he love football?
Where can you use him? He's kind of a strider,
doesn't get off the line good enough. I was wrong,
And with that eighteen years in the NFL mad house,
you know, it's funny about quarterbacks. A year ago. Everybody's
(26:59):
like when you were first round. Two years ago, Sam Hell,
first round, so you get lied to a lot about
this stuff.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
Things changed.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I mean when when he dropped in the draft, Shador Sanders,
what was your immediate first and second take on that.
Speaker 12 (27:13):
I was a little bit surprised.
Speaker 13 (27:15):
But there really weren't that many teams that were desperate
for a quarterback.
Speaker 12 (27:19):
I mean, obviously Tennessee.
Speaker 13 (27:20):
You know there's something out there with Pittsburgh. The Giants
were a player Pittsburgh, you know, wondering about the Aaron
Rodgers thing. But like, once he fell, it was clear
he was going to fall for you know, he could
fall pretty far. And there were some great quarterbacks and
for me, as a sixth round pick pick one eight seven.
Speaker 12 (27:36):
I was kind of, in my mind a little bit
like crimea River.
Speaker 13 (27:39):
You know, there's some good players out there, Kyle McCord,
Riley Leonard, will Howard. But I do think Shedor Sanders
is a really good quarterback.
Speaker 12 (27:46):
I think he's talented.
Speaker 8 (27:48):
Uh.
Speaker 13 (27:48):
Clearly, his film was a lot better than I think
maybe some of the interactions and some of the lead
up to the draft, and that probably gave some people
some pause, some teams that might have taken him to
to go elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So I would put Travis Hunter on offense, mostly because
I could target him twelve times and get him the ball,
Whereas I'd rather do that than him used as a
decoy chasing around quarterbacks and not be part.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
Of the play.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
So and I think he will be a prolific offensive player.
But I do wonder on Tuesday or Wednesday during install
and he's in the offensive meeting and not in the
defensive meeting. Is that problematic?
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (28:28):
I think there's like a lot of people don't understand
how it works, like in a real work week for
an NFL team. I mean, I could see a scout
being like, oh man, this guy's awesome. He could play offense,
he could play defense. But the reality of the process.
You here coaches talk about process. Wednesday is all first
and second down offensive defense. Do the exact same thing
every day during the week. Thursday is all third down,
(28:51):
third down and two minutes. Friday is red zone, shortyardage,
goal line. Saturday is kind of a walk through, mock
game situation, you know, hail Mary, end of game type situations.
Obviously you play the game on Sunday. So really, I
think this is going to be a real challenge for
the coaches and for the player. Playing the actual game
is not the hard part, Like that's physically.
Speaker 12 (29:14):
Not a big deal.
Speaker 13 (29:15):
The preparation you spend all day studying the intricacies and
tendencies on third down of your own playbook of your opponent.
Speaker 12 (29:23):
I just don't know how they're gonna do that.
Speaker 13 (29:24):
They're gonna have to get creative, and the coaches are
going to have to be the ones to adjust.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
I was really surprised the Bears the last two years
in free agency have mostly gone offense, and last year
in the draft, you know, better picks, they went offense.
So I would theorize, Okay, they're gonna figure this defense
out and they went tight end, wide receiver, offensive tackle.
I'm like, Ben Johnson is running the draft room. I think,
did it surprise you? What did you make of that? Well?
Speaker 13 (29:50):
I think it's if you're a Bears fan, you're really
excited to see that Ben Johnson and Ryan Pols are together,
Like I think they're on the same page. That's not
something you can say in Chicago for a long long time,
But I think they setting this up to find out
if Caleb Williams is in fact Ben Johnson's guy. And
you know, clearly he's got the ability, he's got the potential.
(30:10):
We have not seen the execution on the field, so
you know, obviously he goes out and gets his Sam
Laporta type guy at tight end. He's got the wide receivers,
he's building up front with the old line. He goes
and gets Azzie Trapillo at an underrated second round pick.
I think it's gonna be all set up for Caleb
to either be the guy or not be the guy
(30:30):
going forward. I love the draft. I really love what
they did. They did in Chicago, but now the pressure's
on the young quarterback.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
I had said this earlier.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I talked to an NFL executive on Friday after the show,
and he said, he goes, if Shador doesn't get drafted
by like the thirty eighth pick, so six picks into
the second round, he's being viewed as a backup, and
some people aren't going They're not gonna do that circus
as a backup. He goes, keep your eye on mill
(31:01):
Everybody loves that kid, and he's not ready to play,
so there'll be no pressure on the starter. So John
Snyder to me is about as good as a personnel
guy as the league has. I thought the Seahawks had
the best draft, you know, the organization. Well, what do
you make so I get taking Milroll over Shador because
Sam's starting for two years, let's not threaten him. What
did you make of the pick? And what did you
(31:21):
make of the Seahawks draft?
Speaker 3 (31:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (31:24):
I agree with really everything that you're saying there. And
you know, I just go back to even on the
quarterback thing. I think I've told you before two coaches
that came and sort of like worked me out when
I was in college where Sean Payton and Andy Reid,
neither one of.
Speaker 12 (31:40):
Them worked me out.
Speaker 13 (31:41):
Sean Payton took me to lunch and Andy Reid hung
out in a whiteboard meeting room with me and we talked.
They both, I think, wanted to see if I was
the kind of guy that they wanted in their quarterback room,
that they wanted in their locker room. The person that
I was like, it was I going to fit in
their team. And I think what I've learned in eighteen
years in the NFL is that humility is respected in
(32:02):
the locker room. So I think, like when you're talking
about a Jalen Milroe as an example, he's everything you're
looking for and a guy you're adding to your team,
adding to your locker room, adding to your quarterback room.
Your quarterback coach wants to coach a guy like that.
You hear Mike McDonald talk about, Hey, he's special as
a quarterback in the traditional sense, but when this guy
(32:24):
like when things break down. As a defensive coordinator, my
biggest fear as a decordinator play caller is when the
guy has the ability to go do something with it
as a runner as well, and Milroe certainly certainly is
exceptional in that regard. So yeah, to your point, the Seahawks,
they went and got their Steve Hutchinson type offensive lineman,
no nonsense, versatile, you know, potential Hall of Famer type talent.
(32:48):
And then you know, like obviously you know later on
they replace Gino with Milroe, they.
Speaker 12 (32:54):
Add depth where they need to ad depth.
Speaker 13 (32:56):
They get their Cam Chancellor in the second round, trying
to rebuild that legion of boom, the Kyle Hamilton type
guy that McDonald was using with Baltimore. I mean, they're
in love with their draft right now, and I think
Seahawk fans are as well.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Okay, I thought the Raiders asked in Genty. I thought
he fit Chip Kelly. I thought he was what they need.
I think Gino's always proven on play action. He's a
more than capable NFL quarterback. I loved that pick. That's
one of the few we called.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
What did you make of it?
Speaker 13 (33:25):
Yeah, we talked about it in March. I think you
asked me the question what I think about it? And
it's an identity pick. I think in that division two,
with the great quarterbacks and the great offenses in that division,
Pete Carroll views a great running game as an extension
of the defense. He's got this formula in play calling.
How many times do I run it? Plus how many
(33:45):
times do I have a completion? And that's my formula
ball Security is another major factor. But when you go
back to who Pete Carroll was at SC with Lendel
White and Reggie Bush, and then who he was in
Seattle with Marshawn Lynch, this fits him exactly. And I
would even say that, you know, if you really study
what Chip Kelly was last year as the play caller
(34:07):
at Ohio State, this was a run first team and
this was a b the hammer, not the nail kind
of a mindset that I think both coaches have perfect fit.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
I am guessing that the Steelers have some sort of
deal with Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron just said, I'll wait
to see how the draft plays out, and if you
don't draft a starter, I'll come aboard.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Will Howard's a backup.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Right now, I'm guessing because otherwise I don't know what
Pittsburgh's doing at quarterback.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
What do you think they're doing with Aaron?
Speaker 13 (34:39):
Yeah, I think you nailed it. I mean, I have
no insight info. But this whole time, when everyone's all
this chatter, what's Aaron Rodgers waiting for? You either want
to be a Steeler or you don't guys, do you
remember what happened last year? Kirk Cousins signed a huge
deal to go to Atlanta and then they picked a
quarterback like eighth overall or something like that. He's waiting
for the draft. He doesn't want to be a lame
duck quarterback. This is the perfect team for him. Pittsburgh's
(35:01):
the perfect fit. He's waiting till after the draft. So
you don't do something sort of foolish. Go get me
more weapons, don't go draft my replacement. And that's essentially
how I think the draft played out. They got a
really talented quarterback in the sixth, sixth round, and Will
Howard that's not a threat.
Speaker 12 (35:19):
He's more of a project.
Speaker 13 (35:20):
Maybe have a guy that's like, Hey, I really like
this guy. I would like to sort of mentor this guy.
I like what the Steelers did that way. And I
do think there was a handshake agreement. Let's wait till
after the draft and then we'll then we'll talk and
get your pen out and we'll put this thing to
paper for.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
The record, A team will go into camp with twelve linebackers,
fourteen offensive linemen or more, but generally you don't have
five quarterbacks. How do you how does Cleveland figure out?
I mean, I think Chador is gonna win the job eventually,
but it is a lot of snaps. Dylan Gabriel, Kenny
pick it, Joe Flackel, how's that gonna work?
Speaker 13 (35:58):
It doesn't honestly call, and it doesn't feel like a
head coach GM draft pick. For that reason, it feels
like an ownership draft pick. It feels like, you know,
they had a plan and then all of a sudden,
someone who ranks higher than them said, Hey, why don't
we do this?
Speaker 12 (36:14):
And so something's got to change.
Speaker 13 (36:16):
There's not enough reps for three guys really, never mind five,
So I wouldn't be surprised to see somebody get traded
at some point.
Speaker 12 (36:25):
That's just the nature of how it goes.
Speaker 13 (36:27):
But I remember being my first year, I was the
fourth string quarterback for the Green Bay Packers, and like
I said, there's nothing to do. Essentially, they used me
as a practice squad tight end at practice. So somebody's
got to go. Somebody's got to go, and that's a
that's an interesting dynamic in that room. Obviously, people will
be talking about that one and watching it very closely.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
By the way, finally, the outpouring of affection to you
on the passing of your father, I think speaks volumes
about the Hasslebeck family and you in particular. I have
met your father, I've met your family before, and I
just think, I just we want to pass along how
much we think of you. And it was it warmed
my heart to see the outpouring of affection by the
(37:12):
Internet towards your family, my man, and you know, we
think thanks calling.
Speaker 13 (37:15):
Yeah, my dad was larger than life in a lot
of ways, and I hope we honored him at his funeral.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
He was.
Speaker 13 (37:21):
He's a great man and still in shock a little bit,
but it's he'll be definitely missed.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
All right.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Matt Hasselbeck one of the really good guys in our profession.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
Eighteen years in the NFL.
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