May 9, 2025 • 37 mins
Colin discusses Draymond Green picking up another technical foul in a game 2 loss to the Timberwolves and why Green has clearly embraced the "villain" role of today's NBA. He lists the top sidekicks in the NBA right now including both Kevin Durant and Kawhi Leonard explaining they are no longer franchise players you can build around. NBA champion and Hall of Famer Paul Pierce joins the show to talk about his Celtics blowing back-to-back 20-point leads to the Knicks and why LeBron James should have been included on Colin's list of best sidekicks in the league
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
What it is Friday. Lot's going on as we head
into the weekend, Lawn, Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever
you may be and however you may be listening or watching.
Thanks for making us part of your day. Well, it
was another night where Draymond Green was center stage.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yes, indeed your friend Raymond Green. Yes, sheepshat artists.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Well, let's just say this, whatever path you choose to
take in live, I'm not going to be judgment but
we have of NBA players who choose the villain roles.
The three best of all time were Bill Lamber, Dennis Rodman,
(01:09):
and Draymond Green. It was a chosen path. Lamber and
Draymon were better offensively, but they played the wrestling heel too.
And with that it gets messy. So last night's another
Draymon night. He gets a foul. It's obviously a technical foul.
They go to the replay. You could argue it's a flagrant.
(01:32):
I wouldn't, but some would. Now he has towed the
line his entire career. I don't see him as a victim,
but I have defended him. I defended Lambier and Rodman.
They are great at what they do. They provide an
edge and toughness. They're annoying, they get into people's heads. Now.
Draymon also has some impulse control issues, and Steph Curry
(01:56):
and Steve Kerr are often almost therapists during these outbursts.
It's interesting Draymon actually statistically gets more technicals when Steph
Curry doesn't play. So there is something psychologically about Draymon
when his guy. When the star's gone, he gets ramped up.
Then later in the game he's on the bike, Draymon
(02:17):
has an altercation with a fan. A fan says something inappropriate,
the fan it's a slur, gets tossed out of the game,
as he should be. There's knuckleheads everywhere, and afterwards Draymond
Green was very upset about an agenda and how he
is often viewed, in his eyes look like.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
The angry black man. I'm not an angry black man.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I'm a very successful, educated black man with a great family,
and I'm great at basketball. I'm great at what I do.
To the agenda to try to keep making me look
like an angry black man is crazy.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
I'm sick of it. Is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Now I have said this before. I have employed him
for several years. He's as coachable as any employee I
have because Tom Isow and Steve Kerr a tough coaches,
so he likes to be coached. He gets along with people.
He's totally professional. But he has chosen the path like
Bill Lambier did, to be a confrontational player with that
(03:13):
path in life because fame comes riches and it gets messy.
I went to a Bill Lambier game and heard people
attack him in the layup line before the game. That
is the path Lambier chose. He didn't have to do that.
And Draymond Green last night was steph out. You knew
(03:34):
the crowd was going to be all over him. So
that's the path he has taken. But I would say
with Lambier and I'm old enough to remember Bill Lambier
with those pistons that Lambier and Draymond are effective. They're complex,
they embrace it. It is a very volatile path to take.
(03:54):
You'll get rich, you'll get famous, and you'll get a
ton of crap. If Steph Kobe Bryant beats you, it
feels artful. If Rodman, Lambier or Draymond beat you, it
feels like they're cheating. They're skirting the rules, they're pushing
the envelope, and they are and I have defended it.
(04:15):
Bulls fans and Laker fans. They thought Lambert was inappropriate.
It's one thing to get beat by the artist, by
the scalpel. It's another thing to be to be beaten
over the head. And sometimes with Lambier and Rodman and
Draymond it feels that way. So aggression meets aggression and
the fans are really really I sat in a Lambier game,
(04:38):
I've been to a Draymond game on the road. It
is different, but I will say this about the value
of what Draymond provides. So the three most disruptive players
in terms of like style in my life are Rodman,
Lambier and Draymond now, Lambier and Draymond are better offensive players.
(04:59):
But those three, think about this for a second, who
are they coached by? In my opinion, the four best
coaches in league history, at least in my life history Popovich,
Chuck Daily, Phil Jackson, and Steve Kerr. So the smartest
coaches in league history had the three villains because they
understand the value the rebounding, the screen setting, the toughness.
(05:26):
NBA playoffs have always been loosely officiated. They allow more physicality.
Phil Jackson absolutely new that they had different rules for
Rodman he could go to Vegas during the finals, and
the same with Lamber or Draymond Green. They have incredible value,
But being the villain is a choice, and it's messy.
(05:50):
Here is Draymond angry after and here's Steve Kerr as well,
look like.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
The angry black man. I'm not an angry black man.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I'm a successful, educated black man with a great family,
and I'm great at basketball. I'm great at what I do.
The agenda to try to keep making me look like
an angry black man is crazy. I'm sick of it.
Is ridiculous.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
He's going to have to stay composed. Obviously, we need.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Him, and.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
I'm confident that he will because he knows, you know,
he knows the circumstances. That's part of It's part of Dreamlond.
You know, his the same thing that makes him such
a competitor and a winner puts him over the top sometimes.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
And you know, we we know that, and.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
It's our job to try to help him stay stay poised,
stay composed. But the competition he's so meaning meaningful to
him that you know, occasionally he he goes over the line.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And last night was viewed as going over the line.
All right, speaking of a noisy a couple of here.
There was a story by Pablo Tory, talented podcaster, that
said Carolina had banned Bill Belichick's girlfriend, Jordan Hudson from
the football facility. Carolina came out this morning and said, no,
she's not an employee of our university. She is welcome
(07:15):
in the football facilities. She'll continue to manage Coach Belichick's
personal brand outside. So I've said this, Jordan Hudson is
a very young and ambitious and willful young lady, and
colleges are full of hierarchies.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
So.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
This is gonna be combative. Okay, this was probably bound
to get a little turbulent. Belichick empowered her. She took
the baton. She's aggressive. If you look at her life history,
this is a moment in time for her. Sorry, I
find be empowered and find success. I get it. But
(07:57):
from day one, Belichick to me in a college campus
never made sense. He didn't draft well because he didn't
pay a lot of attention despite his dad's history, he
didn't pay a lot of attention to college football. You
could tell from his drafts he had no feel for it.
Belichick ben hires Mike Lombardi who I know at North Carolina.
(08:18):
These are NFL guys first, second, and third, and fourth
and fifth and six. They don't care about being part
of a university's athletic department. They can fake it. They
can go to a basketball game. What I would argue
in all of this is Belichick is rebranding himself young girlfriend,
college campus, young young recruits. He's staying current. I'm surprised
(08:41):
he didn't go to Coachella. Hey, I thought there'd be
coaches here. Well, what's going on? I mean? The truth
is the NFL viewed Bill Belichick as old, combative and grumpy,
and one team Atlanta, gave it the time of day,
(09:01):
and yet in the last twelve months, what has he done.
He went on ESPN and laughed and smiled a lot.
He found a young girlfriend. He's on a young college campus.
He's doing TikTok and snap Graham and ends the Chat
and all that stuff he used to make fun of.
I believe Bill is rebranding himself. Even if you look
(09:23):
at his contract at Carolina, the out is after a year.
So I'm not blaming Bill, whose DNA is pro football
wanting to use Carolina to get back to the NFL.
I think that's his real dream. Nor do I blame
Jordan Hudson for being ambitious, willful, driven and butting heads
(09:45):
if it happened with anybody on college campus. College campuses
is all about tenured professor. I mean here at USC
and UCLA, it's politics, it's tenure, it's you know, everybody's
trying to get their space and their lane and protect
it and get that nice pension. I think Belichick's rebranding,
but him in a college campus. I've said this from
(10:07):
the very beginning. It just doesn't feel natural, It doesn't
feel terribly authentic. You can go you know, him laughing
on ESPN. He gave it to college try. But Bill's
not a media guy. Bill doesn't have any interest in
the media guy. You've watched his book Media Tour. It's
not who he is. He's a pro football coach, the
best defensive coach of all time, the most profound and
(10:31):
prodigious NFL coaching resume of all time. The game changed,
it's more collaborative. He tends to be more bottom line
and a little bit corrosive and tough and combative and
collaborative and combative are two different things. And hey, Jordan,
can he give me a little help in the branding stuff.
(10:53):
That's what it feels like to me. I'm not saying
they don't have a great time together, but I've said
I think they're both kind of using each other to
empower their careers going forward. I'm here for it. I'm
okay with it. But I've never bought into Belichick in
a college campus fits. It's like Bobby Knight in the pros.
That was never gonna work. Belichick twelve years at Carolina,
(11:15):
Mack Brown feels like a college coach. He's smiling, not
great in the details, wonderful guy, Southern smooth Texas charm.
Mac Brown's a college coach. Nick Saban could do both.
He just didn't stay around the NFL long enough to
be a great head coach. But this has always felt
(11:36):
a little unnatural to me. And that's okay. So you
had the Pablo Tory report. Carolina comes back and says
that's not true. Julian Edelman was on our show earlier
this week on all the noise around Belichick, Carolina and
the current situation.
Speaker 7 (11:54):
The number one thing we used to talk about all
the time in New England was distractions. Let's not make distractions.
The game's already as hard as it is, and we're
talking about this three weeks later. It's on ABC, It's
on this, It's on that. I mean, it's getting to
(12:14):
a point where we gotta we gotta start worrying about,
you know, the ACC. We gotta start worrying about Dabo swinging.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, he sees it. Julian sees it. He is keeping
it real on this. I don't feel Mike Lombardy, Bill Belichick, Carolina.
That doesn't that doesn't that doesn't sound like a Tom
Hanks Reda Wilson marriage. That doesn't feel like twenty thirty
years to me, even if Philip Belichick was fifty five.
(12:44):
He's a pro guy. You can usually see a guy
that guy's a college guy. That's guy's a pro guy.
Dabo's when he's a college guy. Belichick's a pro guy,
and he reads a pro guy. Sean Payton's a pro guy.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
H J. Mac.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Draymond Green gets everybody a ryle. He almost new last
night without Steph Curry. We talked about this on the
show yesterday. Golden State had one way to win, get ugly,
get physical, and it went sideways.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I don't know, other than Jonathan Kuminga having a pretty
solid game, I saw nothing from Golden State that leads
me to believe they're winning any more games in this series.
I mean, Anthony Edwards played like crap again last night.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Got hurt on one ankle.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You yeah, I mean, listen, they're Ben showed up, nasried
de Vincenzo wis ran pretty good. Devincenzo's trending toward Raymond
territory with some of these.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
No, he's well, he's a very again he he I
don't think he's Draymond rob No Lambiert, but he's a
very physical feisty player. I think his dad was a
much Well, he's a Villanova guy. Villanova guys are tough.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
You go after Luca and Lebron and now in this series,
Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't you know who likes Devincenzo, Chris Finch. He's
this tough guy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Everybody needs an enforcer, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Now, Jay Wright loved him. Yeah, I mean, the bottom
line is, I'll defend Rodman, Lambier, Evinceenzo, Draymond Green, every
what do we what do we think the Celtics are missing?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Dog, tough guy.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Minnie's got dog? I mean, I know, I mean, I'll
tell you who's got dog. Denver Yo kitch Is banged
on players for years. Denver's got dog.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Boston had Marcus Smart. They were like, eh, too much.
The dog thinks he's too much of a big dog
taking all the shots.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I'm sorry. I'm gonna defend these guys forever. Not just
because I've worked with Draymond All, defend them forever. Popovich,
Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Chuck Daily, four best coaches arguably
ever all loved their enforcers.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
It's also like when you and I hang out, you know,
you need me to step in. Sometimes them fans get
over zealous with you and want to buy your drink.
I'm like, hey, hey, cow hurdle down.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 1 (14:53):
So this is interesting. Brian Winnhorst is a guy I trust,
and Brian Winhorst has been taught talking about this over
the last couple of days. If the Celtics lose this series,
and I still think Boston should win it, but we
acknowledged this yesterday. The NBA is allowing the most physicality
(15:13):
that I remember in the playoffs, even above most years,
and we told you and have for years, this is
what the NBA does. It's a different level this year,
and that plays into New York's hand much more than
it does the Celtics hand. But I still think the
Celtics should be favored to win the series. And I
know that's looney tunes, but win Horst has been saying
(15:34):
win or lose, but especially lose they may they're gonna
break this team up. They have new owners and there's
just there's a lot of money here if you don't win.
But what's interesting is Brad Stevens is a very smart
GM and he is always ahead of the curve. If
(15:55):
they go after Yannis and they're one of the few
teams that would have a package to do it, and
he could stay in the East, what does it tell
you about what he thinks about Tatum. Fans tend to
think that if you score a bunch of points, you're
a number one. No, James Harden was never a number one.
He was a number one score, but Houston mistakingly thought
(16:15):
you could build around him. Westbrook, Chris Paul, he didn't
work with anybody because he doesn't work on the defensive end.
And he's flighty and flaky. Okay, so he's not a
number one. He's a number one score. Kawhi and embid
to me, they can't be number ones. They're never available.
You can't have a quarterback play eleven to twelve games
a year. That's not I don't care. I don't care.
(16:37):
If there as good as Lamar Jackson, you gotta be
there every single Sunday, plan hurt. You gotta be there.
And so the NBA now even has minimums for awards.
You have to play so many games. So I've always
said this, I've always called Anthony Davis the best number
two in the sport, is that he has the talent
(16:58):
to be a one, but to can't really depend on him.
Sometimes he's there, sometimes offensively he's not present. So if
I had to pick a starting five with one bench
guy as the best number twos in the league, many
of these feel like number ones. I'd have Jimmy Butler,
Jalen Brown, Chet Holmgren, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard and KD.
(17:20):
And you think Kadi's a one, No, he's not. You
can't build around him. He's a wanderer, you can never
get an answer. He didn't like confrontation in the locker
room from Draymon or on the bench. Steph is a one.
K D's personality. His game's a one, so is John
Moran's game, so is Zion Williamson's game. But they're two's
(17:44):
gifted twos. So to me, there are four things you
need to be a one production. I mean, you can't
score twelve a game and be a one production. Number
two physical and emotional reliability. You gotta be there. You
gotta have your head on straight. That's Harden, not a one.
(18:04):
Number three is durability, Kawhi, you got it, you gotta play.
And number four is dog, gotta be a dog. And
that's where Jason Tatum. And I'm not saying Tatum's not
a one, but he struggles with the fourth one. He
got me talked into it even when he didn't play
(18:25):
much in the Olympics in his prime. His response was, well,
it's just part of basketball. You think you're gonna sit
Kobe and MJ and not here from it. You think
you're gonna sit Lebron and not here from it. He
was like, Eh, Michael Jordan still holds a grudge because
Isaiah Thomas froz him out in an All Star Game.
(18:48):
In an All Star game, Number four is dog. You
want the ball and you demand. When I watched Jason
Tatum's last shot, he goes left, chooses the wrong side,
works himself into a double, goes into the defender, and
shoots a fall away. Two of his last three shots
were followays. I'm not denying he's a one, but he
(19:11):
struggles with dog. He just does. And so I'm fascinated
to see what Brad Stevens does when they brought in
Poorzingis and Drew Holliday. What they were telling you was,
you know, we need to bring in two more offensive
guys because sometimes our guy is not quite as dependable
(19:36):
in big spots as we like. I always said this,
You can tell what a team thinks of its quarterbacks
by the plays it calls. You can tell what a
GM thinks of his stars by what he surrounds him with.
So if they said, we'll get rid of Jaylen Brown,
will do this, We'll do this, will do this, will
do this, We'll bring in Yiannis, they're telling you sometimes
(19:59):
with Tatum, we're we're not sure if he got that dog.
Giannis may not be able to hit a free throw.
He wants to dominate. Okay, Lebrono was wanted to Michael.
We all know the players bird magic. We all know
doesn't mean it played great in every game six and seven.
I'm not saying that everybody has bad games. Here's Rick
Buker yesterday on Tatum.
Speaker 8 (20:20):
Doesn't have a go to spot, he doesn't have a
go to shot. He took fewer shots at the rim
this season than he ever has in his career, and
his mid range went down as well.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
What compensated for that.
Speaker 8 (20:34):
He took nearly half of his shots from three point range.
So now we're looking at your go to guy, who
if his three point shot is not falling, which it
has not in this series, what's he.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Going to I've said this, Phil Jackson may have had
the triangle, but sometimes Kobe and MJ just went, Yeah,
we're gonna do my We're gonna do my triangle, yours,
give me the ball. I think Tatum too often complies
and is collaborative with this analytical three point parade, and
(21:10):
I think he should push back. And sometimes guys, I'm
getting a bucket, I'm taking the last eight shots and
I'm not shooting threes. I'm getting buckets. But he's such
a nice kid and he's so collaborative. This is just
my opinion that this three point analytic parade that Boston does,
he just goes along with it. I see him constantly
beat guys off the dribble, then step back and shoot
to three. Dude, just get to the basket and dunk.
(21:32):
Just go to the basket, get better shots. But he
is such a quality guy. And again, to me, there's
four things you gotta have to be an absolute one
and I'm not saying he doesn't have dogs sometimes, but man,
it can be a struggle.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
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Speaker 9 (21:50):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 9 (22:04):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Going on in the world.
Speaker 9 (22:08):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together. I
mean that says something, right. So check us out. We
like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say, the most
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Speaker 1 (22:30):
Most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 9 (22:32):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on
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miss any of the live show, just search Covino and
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social media.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
That's Covino and Rich. All right, Paul Pierce said he
would walk to work if the Celtics did not win
Game two and the video was all over Instagram. So
and then, Paul, this is Paul right here saying, you know, okay,
(23:04):
I'll walk to Look at this. Look how dark it
is out five in the morning, five in Look at that.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
It took me seven hours. I'm still exhausted, can't you
tell this?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So, by the way, when Paul finally arrived at work,
maybe you've seen this scene before. He had to be
wheeled into work.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Brings back memories.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
On seven hours. What are your feet you outside? Fourteen
fifteen feet?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I'll feed are towards right now.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Here's my thing. It's one thing to blow a twenty
point lead in game one. I didn't look at that.
It's embarrassing. I said, listen, you led by twenty You
beat this team all year. What am I supposed to
make of that offense? In the last eight minutes of
Game two at home?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
You know what coming. That's a mindset, truthfully, this that
has nothing to do with game planning. That's a mindset.
So many like, the game plan is there, you go
up twenty, the game plan is there's nothing Missoula, nothing
more he can do. The game plan is there, The
blueprint is there. Y'all did it all year long, y'all,
(24:11):
y'all go about the game print for three quarters and
there's all of a sudden, just mental laps in the
fourth quarter. That's all it is. It's not it's not
x's alls at this point.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Why doesn't Tatum And I've said, I understand the fascination
and the analytics and Brad Stevens building a three point
shooting roster. But at some point, and I've said this,
Michael and Kobe and Paul Pierce would have pushed back
and said, guys, I'm getting a basket for sure. I
think Jason is too collaborative. Dude, grab the ball and
(24:47):
take it to the basket four or five times in
a row, even his last shot left side fall away.
Is it fair to say he has to be convinced
to be a dog.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
That's that's fair at times? Because I feel like that
about him you know because I see it. I know
it's in them because I've seen it a bunch of times.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I mean, you just don't become a first team All
NBA player without some of it, Yes, exactly. I mean
talent can take you so far, I get it, but
mentality can take you further. And the guys that you
talk about have it all the time and never cut
it off. Sometimes I feel like he goes away, he
forgets about it. Yeah, and that has to be constantly
(25:29):
reminded to be that way.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Okay, the NBA is allowing a very physical playoff brand.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
I love it. Yeah, so do I.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And for the record, that's why you flourished in the playoffs.
You were a physical player. You play defense. Can I
argue that this level of physicality Chris Vench and Steve
Kerr like this is the next level that it? Actually
I could argue benefits the less talented team. This is
going to be a close series because the Knicks aren't pretty.
(26:00):
The Celtics are pretty. Everybody can pass me the Knicks
art and when you let og grab and lean that
the new officiating leans into New York's favor.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, you know what, you know what's so crazy about that?
I always said when I played on teams that weren't
wasn't as good, I said, we have to do something different.
When I played at the Park, when I played at AU,
when I played in high school, when we weren't a
better team that team, I said, you got you know what, guys,
And this was the game plan. This was always the
game plan college since I've been a kid, I said,
(26:31):
we gotta junk up the game.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Junk it up.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
We gotta junk the game up. And by saying that,
we gotta foul, we gotta grab, we gotta push, we
gotta do things that they not used to doing. We
gotta take this game to the playgrounds.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So this is what we said about the Knicks. The
playground is beating the classroom. Yes, and the Knicks are
playground team and the other guys are math guys.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Absolutely, that's exactly what you see right here. And that's
the only way you bring a team that's up here
to you down to your level. You junk it up.
It's like a boxing match, you know what I'm saying.
Like a guy was more talented, but then you start grabbing, holding,
you know, doing things that this better boxer just not
used to doing and you junk it up, body blows,
(27:17):
body bulk grabbing, holding ailblehead button, you start doing things.
And that's what the Knicks are doing right to the Celtics.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
You know I said this. I was very reluctant to
say Jalen Brunson's a one, but I gotta tell you
one is about durability and toughness and resilience and dog. Yeah,
I think he's a one.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I have on the telp Yes, here's here's what I say.
There's four things to be a one. Productivity Ken average
nine a game. You have to be emotionally and physically
ready to play every night. You have to be durable
Kahilon available thirty eight. That's not a why I can't
build around you. And four, you have to have a dog.
You gotta be a dog at least some of the time.
(28:06):
You gotta want to close. You can't run from the shot.
And then I look at him and I go, Okay,
I'm not saying he's Lebron in his prime. I'm not
saying he's Paul Pierce. I'm not saying he's Tatum. But
what box doesn't He's a great closer. He's productive, he's durable,
he's emotionally always available. There are no he has bad games.
(28:26):
He never has a no show game.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
I just like Jaylen Brunson is an amazing player. He's
one of the top point guards. I would love him
to be the next Olympic team when it gets to LA.
I just don't think he can be your best player
on a championship.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Team one A. He can be one A. Yannis goes
to New York, he can be the Okay, right, if
he'll have the ball more than Yannis, he'll hit the
free throws late over Yannis. Yes, but Yannis will be
the force.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Like Kobe and Shack. You know what I'm saying. Kobe
was the but we all knew Shaq was dominant and
all of that. Yeah, I agree, But like I just
point guards as good as they are, as good as
he is, I don't think a point guard can be
your best player. Now, if your point guard is your
best player on the championship team, that means he's an
all time great. I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Top tens, step magic, Isaiah, that that and that.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Comes around almost never. You have to have the dynamic wing.
I say this all the time. Their dynamic wing has
to be your best player on a championship.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I mostly agree, Yeah, yeah and so.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
But as good as he is, and they may get
out of the series with the Celtics, I just think
they're missing one piece and it could be like a
Yiannis in New York.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Okay, So I have defended Draymond Green for a long time.
I've said this. The three villains in league history that
I watched were Rodman, Lambier, and Draymond. They leaned into it,
they were comfortable being it. Lamber and Draymond are better
offensively than Rodman. They take your best offensive player. They're
(30:03):
gonna ugly up the game. They're gonna get technicals, they
will be fans will be the rudest and sometimes inappropriate
toward them. Aggression meets aggression, but I don't. So when
Draymond says the league is uh, he feels the league
is picking on him, might take his bro You chose
to be the wrestling heel.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Yeah, yeah, you know what, dramid He definitely chose that.
Like I watched his antics and I'll see it. I
know how guys do it. He like he's flailing purposely
because I've seen it. I've been I've been in the
game where guys do that, and yeah, he's definitely embraced it.
(30:44):
But this has to be a point where he should
studied Dennis Rodman because Dennis Rodman was so good at
getting under your skin without all the extras. Like I
used to force Alonso Morning to get technicals or Karl Malone,
like you know, he was standing at the free I
stare at him little stuff like that, like he would
(31:04):
just get under their skin. I used to watch Robin like, dang,
he not even doing all the bullcrap stuff like dreymonda elbowye,
but he's under this guy's skin and he is out
of his game right now. And I think Draymond should
study that because that's he's like the new generation.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
That Draymond's a little more Bill lambierd tackling.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, yeah, he's more like.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, was there ever a place Obviously when you came
you were from La, so you weren't a real villain
even though you were a Celtic like a lot of
people that loved you in La, did you ever go
into any arena and feel like, man, they hate me here?
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Oh man? A lot of arenas Man, Indiana, Toronto. I'll
never forget that because when I got to Washington, I
said something prior to the playoffs, and I just remember
when I got introduced, it was booze. But I like,
I just think being a Celtic is you're a villain.
Like it doesn't even matter, like how we talk about Tatum,
(32:03):
how we talked about Larry Bird and all the constant
the best Celtics were always just like it was always
the villain Celtic and they always carried you wherever you went.
It carried me when I left Boston, you know, in Brooklyn,
I got booed at the All Star Game. Here in La,
I did. I got introduced with the three point contest.
(32:26):
I was the defending three point champ. And I came
back and the next year was in LA and they
introduced me and they boom and I was like damn,
Like I'm from Street Away, So I mean, it never
bothered me, but that that was probably the only time
it bothered me because it was the All Star Game
and I'm like these everybody here's not LA fans, like, come.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
On, okay, So I did this list earlier. J Mac
didn't love it. I said, don't just because a guy
scores James Harden does mean he's a one. I need
guys that play both ends. I need guys that are
available emotionally, physically. I need dog. And the truth is
(33:10):
this is my current list now. Butler may have been
that four years ago. So my sixth the best sidekicks
Jalen Brown, Butler, Durant, Kawhi, Holmegren, Davis, Davis just offensively,
I'm not quite sure what I get to night tonight,
you said to me, well, where's Lebron.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yeah, Lebron should be on this list Top NBA sidekicks.
Jamal Murray should be on this list.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
No, Jamal and Booker were my next two.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Okay, okay, well, definitely Lebron.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Now, so you think Lebron is a two?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. I witnessed it the last thirty games
of the season. I saw Luca take over the dynamics
of the of the of the Lakers, become the guy
number one in Jersey, sales cheered amongst the fans, and
Lebron sik the backseat, and that's what pushed them to
the number three seed in the West.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
So I argue there are twenty ones in the league.
J Max like, there's twenty No, okay, so let's do
it again. So he said Halliburton, and I said, that's
a no, not a one.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
What are we talking about? One's coline okay, one productivity?
Speaker 1 (34:17):
No one?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Is he canny be the best player on a championship team?
That's a one?
Speaker 3 (34:21):
To me?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
You don't think Halliburton can win a title?
Speaker 4 (34:23):
I think he can win the title. But can he
be the best player on a championship team?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
They win tonight, he's gonna be in the Eastern Conference
finals against the Knicks.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Can be the best player on a championship.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Well, then there's like four in the world.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
There's only four or five that can win it every year.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Those are the only ones.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
So you're telling me, do you do you? Okay, let
me let me think about this. Hold on, Yes, you
think that team can win.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Yes, it's joker a one. Yes, you're always the best
player in world. Yes, Horta contenders.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Joannis okay, Okay, Tatum, yeah he's sold. Yeah, yeah, but
he did well. Jaylen Brown won the MVP. Okay, but
we all know it's aunt a one. Absolutely okay. I
think is Kawhi no, not no more. Gotta give me
(35:25):
more than forty games.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yeah, not no more.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
So you don't think so like I think leadership matters.
I never thought Harden was a one. He didn't defend
by May and June. He was so worn out because
he had the ball in his hands. I never thought
he was a one. I thought he was a great
number to a parent him.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
With somebody else, he could have won it. He didn't
have a good parent.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
How about Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
That's a good one right there.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I think he's one.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
I'm conflicted with Donovan Mitchell because of his size at six'
four sixty. Three that conflicts.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Me, okay So i'll tell you WHAT i never. THOUGHT
i don't Buy indo embiid even when he was. HEALTHIER
i think he disrupts your. OFFENSE i think he's. MOODY
i think he was not, available never been to a
conference champions and When lebron left The east and it
was wide, open couldn't win a second playoff.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
SERIES i think he's been AN mvp in this. League
there's the formula to win it. All you have to
have AN mvp. Candidate that was a.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
WOBBLY, mvp that was one yo.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Kitch everybody was like, me could have got, it could
have got but he was still first.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Team all shouldn't you have to win a second playoff
series in The. East i'm not asking.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
Mummy he had to run into The. Celtics that was
that Was that's, like that's Like baltimore or or The
Buffalo bills keep having to run into each, other or
Or Kansas. City we all know they could probably win,
it but they keep the. Path this is a wrong
path for.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Them so you Like embiid more THAN i. DO i like,
him Like harden more THAN i. Do halliburton has done
Something embiid. Hasn't, yeah he's had a better. Team he's
gonna be on his Second Eastern Conference finals as a.
Kid so you don't you're you're one of these overrated.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Guys, NO i wouldn't have called him over. Rated he's
one of those guys that's mind boggling because it seems
like he elevates his game in the. Playoffs i've seen,
that like now over multiple. Years he's like he's Like
Jimmy butler in a. Way, yes you know What i'm,
Saying Like Jimmy butler kind of like he gets through
the regular season he's fringe all, star but then playoffs
(37:37):
he just becomes this mega, superstar you, Know and that's
How halliburton good senior, man good to see always
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noon Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
What it is Friday. Lot's going on as we head
into the weekend, Lawn, Los Angeles. It's the Herd. Wherever
you may be and however you may be listening or watching.
Thanks for making us part of your day. Well, it
was another night where Draymond Green was center stage.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yes, indeed your friend Raymond Green. Yes, sheepshat artists.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Well, let's just say this, whatever path you choose to
take in live, I'm not going to be judgment but
we have of NBA players who choose the villain roles.
The three best of all time were Bill Lamber, Dennis Rodman,
(01:09):
and Draymond Green. It was a chosen path. Lamber and
Draymon were better offensively, but they played the wrestling heel too.
And with that it gets messy. So last night's another
Draymon night. He gets a foul. It's obviously a technical foul.
They go to the replay. You could argue it's a flagrant.
(01:32):
I wouldn't, but some would. Now he has towed the
line his entire career. I don't see him as a victim,
but I have defended him. I defended Lambier and Rodman.
They are great at what they do. They provide an
edge and toughness. They're annoying, they get into people's heads. Now.
Draymon also has some impulse control issues, and Steph Curry
(01:56):
and Steve Kerr are often almost therapists during these outbursts.
It's interesting Draymon actually statistically gets more technicals when Steph
Curry doesn't play. So there is something psychologically about Draymon
when his guy. When the star's gone, he gets ramped up.
Then later in the game he's on the bike, Draymon
(02:17):
has an altercation with a fan. A fan says something inappropriate,
the fan it's a slur, gets tossed out of the game,
as he should be. There's knuckleheads everywhere, and afterwards Draymond
Green was very upset about an agenda and how he
is often viewed, in his eyes look like.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
The angry black man. I'm not an angry black man.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
I'm a very successful, educated black man with a great family,
and I'm great at basketball. I'm great at what I do.
To the agenda to try to keep making me look
like an angry black man is crazy.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
I'm sick of it. Is ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Now I have said this before. I have employed him
for several years. He's as coachable as any employee I
have because Tom Isow and Steve Kerr a tough coaches,
so he likes to be coached. He gets along with people.
He's totally professional. But he has chosen the path like
Bill Lambier did, to be a confrontational player with that
(03:13):
path in life because fame comes riches and it gets messy.
I went to a Bill Lambier game and heard people
attack him in the layup line before the game. That
is the path Lambier chose. He didn't have to do that.
And Draymond Green last night was steph out. You knew
(03:34):
the crowd was going to be all over him. So
that's the path he has taken. But I would say
with Lambier and I'm old enough to remember Bill Lambier
with those pistons that Lambier and Draymond are effective. They're complex,
they embrace it. It is a very volatile path to take.
(03:54):
You'll get rich, you'll get famous, and you'll get a
ton of crap. If Steph Kobe Bryant beats you, it
feels artful. If Rodman, Lambier or Draymond beat you, it
feels like they're cheating. They're skirting the rules, they're pushing
the envelope, and they are and I have defended it.
(04:15):
Bulls fans and Laker fans. They thought Lambert was inappropriate.
It's one thing to get beat by the artist, by
the scalpel. It's another thing to be to be beaten
over the head. And sometimes with Lambier and Rodman and
Draymond it feels that way. So aggression meets aggression and
the fans are really really I sat in a Lambier game,
(04:38):
I've been to a Draymond game on the road. It
is different, but I will say this about the value
of what Draymond provides. So the three most disruptive players
in terms of like style in my life are Rodman,
Lambier and Draymond now, Lambier and Draymond are better offensive players.
(04:59):
But those three, think about this for a second, who
are they coached by? In my opinion, the four best
coaches in league history, at least in my life history Popovich,
Chuck Daily, Phil Jackson, and Steve Kerr. So the smartest
coaches in league history had the three villains because they
understand the value the rebounding, the screen setting, the toughness.
(05:26):
NBA playoffs have always been loosely officiated. They allow more physicality.
Phil Jackson absolutely new that they had different rules for
Rodman he could go to Vegas during the finals, and
the same with Lamber or Draymond Green. They have incredible value,
But being the villain is a choice, and it's messy.
(05:50):
Here is Draymond angry after and here's Steve Kerr as well,
look like.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
The angry black man. I'm not an angry black man.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I'm a successful, educated black man with a great family,
and I'm great at basketball. I'm great at what I do.
The agenda to try to keep making me look like
an angry black man is crazy. I'm sick of it.
Is ridiculous.
Speaker 6 (06:12):
He's going to have to stay composed. Obviously, we need.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Him, and.
Speaker 6 (06:18):
I'm confident that he will because he knows, you know,
he knows the circumstances. That's part of It's part of Dreamlond.
You know, his the same thing that makes him such
a competitor and a winner puts him over the top sometimes.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
And you know, we we know that, and.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
It's our job to try to help him stay stay poised,
stay composed. But the competition he's so meaning meaningful to
him that you know, occasionally he he goes over the line.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And last night was viewed as going over the line.
All right, speaking of a noisy a couple of here.
There was a story by Pablo Tory, talented podcaster, that
said Carolina had banned Bill Belichick's girlfriend, Jordan Hudson from
the football facility. Carolina came out this morning and said, no,
she's not an employee of our university. She is welcome
(07:15):
in the football facilities. She'll continue to manage Coach Belichick's
personal brand outside. So I've said this, Jordan Hudson is
a very young and ambitious and willful young lady, and
colleges are full of hierarchies.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
So.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
This is gonna be combative. Okay, this was probably bound
to get a little turbulent. Belichick empowered her. She took
the baton. She's aggressive. If you look at her life history,
this is a moment in time for her. Sorry, I
find be empowered and find success. I get it. But
(07:57):
from day one, Belichick to me in a college campus
never made sense. He didn't draft well because he didn't
pay a lot of attention despite his dad's history, he
didn't pay a lot of attention to college football. You
could tell from his drafts he had no feel for it.
Belichick ben hires Mike Lombardi who I know at North Carolina.
(08:18):
These are NFL guys first, second, and third, and fourth
and fifth and six. They don't care about being part
of a university's athletic department. They can fake it. They
can go to a basketball game. What I would argue
in all of this is Belichick is rebranding himself young girlfriend,
college campus, young young recruits. He's staying current. I'm surprised
(08:41):
he didn't go to Coachella. Hey, I thought there'd be
coaches here. Well, what's going on? I mean? The truth
is the NFL viewed Bill Belichick as old, combative and grumpy,
and one team Atlanta, gave it the time of day,
(09:01):
and yet in the last twelve months, what has he done.
He went on ESPN and laughed and smiled a lot.
He found a young girlfriend. He's on a young college campus.
He's doing TikTok and snap Graham and ends the Chat
and all that stuff he used to make fun of.
I believe Bill is rebranding himself. Even if you look
(09:23):
at his contract at Carolina, the out is after a year.
So I'm not blaming Bill, whose DNA is pro football
wanting to use Carolina to get back to the NFL.
I think that's his real dream. Nor do I blame
Jordan Hudson for being ambitious, willful, driven and butting heads
(09:45):
if it happened with anybody on college campus. College campuses
is all about tenured professor. I mean here at USC
and UCLA, it's politics, it's tenure, it's you know, everybody's
trying to get their space and their lane and protect
it and get that nice pension. I think Belichick's rebranding,
but him in a college campus. I've said this from
(10:07):
the very beginning. It just doesn't feel natural, It doesn't
feel terribly authentic. You can go you know, him laughing
on ESPN. He gave it to college try. But Bill's
not a media guy. Bill doesn't have any interest in
the media guy. You've watched his book Media Tour. It's
not who he is. He's a pro football coach, the
best defensive coach of all time, the most profound and
(10:31):
prodigious NFL coaching resume of all time. The game changed,
it's more collaborative. He tends to be more bottom line
and a little bit corrosive and tough and combative and
collaborative and combative are two different things. And hey, Jordan,
can he give me a little help in the branding stuff.
(10:53):
That's what it feels like to me. I'm not saying
they don't have a great time together, but I've said
I think they're both kind of using each other to
empower their careers going forward. I'm here for it. I'm
okay with it. But I've never bought into Belichick in
a college campus fits. It's like Bobby Knight in the pros.
That was never gonna work. Belichick twelve years at Carolina,
(11:15):
Mack Brown feels like a college coach. He's smiling, not
great in the details, wonderful guy, Southern smooth Texas charm.
Mac Brown's a college coach. Nick Saban could do both.
He just didn't stay around the NFL long enough to
be a great head coach. But this has always felt
(11:36):
a little unnatural to me. And that's okay. So you
had the Pablo Tory report. Carolina comes back and says
that's not true. Julian Edelman was on our show earlier
this week on all the noise around Belichick, Carolina and
the current situation.
Speaker 7 (11:54):
The number one thing we used to talk about all
the time in New England was distractions. Let's not make distractions.
The game's already as hard as it is, and we're
talking about this three weeks later. It's on ABC, It's
on this, It's on that. I mean, it's getting to
(12:14):
a point where we gotta we gotta start worrying about,
you know, the ACC. We gotta start worrying about Dabo swinging.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, he sees it. Julian sees it. He is keeping
it real on this. I don't feel Mike Lombardy, Bill Belichick, Carolina.
That doesn't that doesn't that doesn't sound like a Tom
Hanks Reda Wilson marriage. That doesn't feel like twenty thirty
years to me, even if Philip Belichick was fifty five.
(12:44):
He's a pro guy. You can usually see a guy
that guy's a college guy. That's guy's a pro guy.
Dabo's when he's a college guy. Belichick's a pro guy,
and he reads a pro guy. Sean Payton's a pro guy.
Speaker 4 (12:55):
H J. Mac.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Draymond Green gets everybody a ryle. He almost new last
night without Steph Curry. We talked about this on the
show yesterday. Golden State had one way to win, get ugly,
get physical, and it went sideways.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I don't know, other than Jonathan Kuminga having a pretty
solid game, I saw nothing from Golden State that leads
me to believe they're winning any more games in this series.
I mean, Anthony Edwards played like crap again last night.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Got hurt on one ankle.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
You yeah, I mean, listen, they're Ben showed up, nasried
de Vincenzo wis ran pretty good. Devincenzo's trending toward Raymond
territory with some of these.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
No, he's well, he's a very again he he I
don't think he's Draymond rob No Lambiert, but he's a
very physical feisty player. I think his dad was a
much Well, he's a Villanova guy. Villanova guys are tough.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
You go after Luca and Lebron and now in this series,
Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I don't you know who likes Devincenzo, Chris Finch. He's
this tough guy.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Everybody needs an enforcer, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Now, Jay Wright loved him. Yeah, I mean, the bottom
line is, I'll defend Rodman, Lambier, Evinceenzo, Draymond Green, every
what do we what do we think the Celtics are missing?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Dog, tough guy.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Minnie's got dog? I mean, I know, I mean, I'll
tell you who's got dog. Denver Yo kitch Is banged
on players for years. Denver's got dog.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Boston had Marcus Smart. They were like, eh, too much.
The dog thinks he's too much of a big dog
taking all the shots.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I'm sorry. I'm gonna defend these guys forever. Not just
because I've worked with Draymond All, defend them forever. Popovich,
Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Chuck Daily, four best coaches arguably
ever all loved their enforcers.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
It's also like when you and I hang out, you know,
you need me to step in. Sometimes them fans get
over zealous with you and want to buy your drink.
I'm like, hey, hey, cow hurdle down.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern a em Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
So this is interesting. Brian Winnhorst is a guy I trust,
and Brian Winhorst has been taught talking about this over
the last couple of days. If the Celtics lose this series,
and I still think Boston should win it, but we
acknowledged this yesterday. The NBA is allowing the most physicality
(15:13):
that I remember in the playoffs, even above most years,
and we told you and have for years, this is
what the NBA does. It's a different level this year,
and that plays into New York's hand much more than
it does the Celtics hand. But I still think the
Celtics should be favored to win the series. And I
know that's looney tunes, but win Horst has been saying
(15:34):
win or lose, but especially lose they may they're gonna
break this team up. They have new owners and there's
just there's a lot of money here if you don't win.
But what's interesting is Brad Stevens is a very smart
GM and he is always ahead of the curve. If
(15:55):
they go after Yannis and they're one of the few
teams that would have a package to do it, and
he could stay in the East, what does it tell
you about what he thinks about Tatum. Fans tend to
think that if you score a bunch of points, you're
a number one. No, James Harden was never a number one.
He was a number one score, but Houston mistakingly thought
(16:15):
you could build around him. Westbrook, Chris Paul, he didn't
work with anybody because he doesn't work on the defensive end.
And he's flighty and flaky. Okay, so he's not a
number one. He's a number one score. Kawhi and embid
to me, they can't be number ones. They're never available.
You can't have a quarterback play eleven to twelve games
a year. That's not I don't care. I don't care.
(16:37):
If there as good as Lamar Jackson, you gotta be
there every single Sunday, plan hurt. You gotta be there.
And so the NBA now even has minimums for awards.
You have to play so many games. So I've always
said this, I've always called Anthony Davis the best number
two in the sport, is that he has the talent
(16:58):
to be a one, but to can't really depend on him.
Sometimes he's there, sometimes offensively he's not present. So if
I had to pick a starting five with one bench
guy as the best number twos in the league, many
of these feel like number ones. I'd have Jimmy Butler,
Jalen Brown, Chet Holmgren, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard and KD.
(17:20):
And you think Kadi's a one, No, he's not. You
can't build around him. He's a wanderer, you can never
get an answer. He didn't like confrontation in the locker
room from Draymon or on the bench. Steph is a one.
K D's personality. His game's a one, so is John
Moran's game, so is Zion Williamson's game. But they're two's
(17:44):
gifted twos. So to me, there are four things you
need to be a one production. I mean, you can't
score twelve a game and be a one production. Number
two physical and emotional reliability. You gotta be there. You
gotta have your head on straight. That's Harden, not a one.
(18:04):
Number three is durability, Kawhi, you got it, you gotta play.
And number four is dog, gotta be a dog. And
that's where Jason Tatum. And I'm not saying Tatum's not
a one, but he struggles with the fourth one. He
got me talked into it even when he didn't play
(18:25):
much in the Olympics in his prime. His response was, well,
it's just part of basketball. You think you're gonna sit
Kobe and MJ and not here from it. You think
you're gonna sit Lebron and not here from it. He
was like, Eh, Michael Jordan still holds a grudge because
Isaiah Thomas froz him out in an All Star Game.
(18:48):
In an All Star game, Number four is dog. You
want the ball and you demand. When I watched Jason
Tatum's last shot, he goes left, chooses the wrong side,
works himself into a double, goes into the defender, and
shoots a fall away. Two of his last three shots
were followays. I'm not denying he's a one, but he
(19:11):
struggles with dog. He just does. And so I'm fascinated
to see what Brad Stevens does when they brought in
Poorzingis and Drew Holliday. What they were telling you was,
you know, we need to bring in two more offensive
guys because sometimes our guy is not quite as dependable
(19:36):
in big spots as we like. I always said this,
You can tell what a team thinks of its quarterbacks
by the plays it calls. You can tell what a
GM thinks of his stars by what he surrounds him with.
So if they said, we'll get rid of Jaylen Brown,
will do this, We'll do this, will do this, will
do this, We'll bring in Yiannis, they're telling you sometimes
(19:59):
with Tatum, we're we're not sure if he got that dog.
Giannis may not be able to hit a free throw.
He wants to dominate. Okay, Lebrono was wanted to Michael.
We all know the players bird magic. We all know
doesn't mean it played great in every game six and seven.
I'm not saying that everybody has bad games. Here's Rick
Buker yesterday on Tatum.
Speaker 8 (20:20):
Doesn't have a go to spot, he doesn't have a
go to shot. He took fewer shots at the rim
this season than he ever has in his career, and
his mid range went down as well.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
What compensated for that.
Speaker 8 (20:34):
He took nearly half of his shots from three point range.
So now we're looking at your go to guy, who
if his three point shot is not falling, which it
has not in this series, what's he.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Going to I've said this, Phil Jackson may have had
the triangle, but sometimes Kobe and MJ just went, Yeah,
we're gonna do my We're gonna do my triangle, yours,
give me the ball. I think Tatum too often complies
and is collaborative with this analytical three point parade, and
(21:10):
I think he should push back. And sometimes guys, I'm
getting a bucket, I'm taking the last eight shots and
I'm not shooting threes. I'm getting buckets. But he's such
a nice kid and he's so collaborative. This is just
my opinion that this three point analytic parade that Boston does,
he just goes along with it. I see him constantly
beat guys off the dribble, then step back and shoot
to three. Dude, just get to the basket and dunk.
(21:32):
Just go to the basket, get better shots. But he
is such a quality guy. And again, to me, there's
four things you gotta have to be an absolute one
and I'm not saying he doesn't have dogs sometimes, but man,
it can be a struggle.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern not am Pacific.
Speaker 9 (21:50):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together We're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You could catch
us weekdays from five to seven pm Eastern two to
four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and of course the
iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 9 (22:04):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Going on in the world.
Speaker 9 (22:08):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture,
stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends
for the last twenty years and still work together. I
mean that says something, right. So check us out. We
like to get you involved too, take your phone calls,
chop it up. As they say, I'd say, the most
interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 9 (22:32):
Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific. And if you
miss any of the live show, just search Covino and
Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on
social media.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
That's Covino and Rich. All right, Paul Pierce said he
would walk to work if the Celtics did not win
Game two and the video was all over Instagram. So
and then, Paul, this is Paul right here saying, you know, okay,
(23:04):
I'll walk to Look at this. Look how dark it
is out five in the morning, five in Look at that.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
It took me seven hours. I'm still exhausted, can't you
tell this?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
So, by the way, when Paul finally arrived at work,
maybe you've seen this scene before. He had to be
wheeled into work.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
Brings back memories.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
On seven hours. What are your feet you outside? Fourteen
fifteen feet?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
I'll feed are towards right now.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Here's my thing. It's one thing to blow a twenty
point lead in game one. I didn't look at that.
It's embarrassing. I said, listen, you led by twenty You
beat this team all year. What am I supposed to
make of that offense? In the last eight minutes of
Game two at home?
Speaker 4 (23:51):
You know what coming. That's a mindset, truthfully, this that
has nothing to do with game planning. That's a mindset.
So many like, the game plan is there, you go
up twenty, the game plan is there's nothing Missoula, nothing
more he can do. The game plan is there, The
blueprint is there. Y'all did it all year long, y'all,
(24:11):
y'all go about the game print for three quarters and
there's all of a sudden, just mental laps in the
fourth quarter. That's all it is. It's not it's not
x's alls at this point.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Why doesn't Tatum And I've said, I understand the fascination
and the analytics and Brad Stevens building a three point
shooting roster. But at some point, and I've said this,
Michael and Kobe and Paul Pierce would have pushed back
and said, guys, I'm getting a basket for sure. I
think Jason is too collaborative. Dude, grab the ball and
(24:47):
take it to the basket four or five times in
a row, even his last shot left side fall away.
Is it fair to say he has to be convinced
to be a dog.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
That's that's fair at times? Because I feel like that
about him you know because I see it. I know
it's in them because I've seen it a bunch of times.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
I mean, you just don't become a first team All
NBA player without some of it, Yes, exactly. I mean
talent can take you so far, I get it, but
mentality can take you further. And the guys that you
talk about have it all the time and never cut
it off. Sometimes I feel like he goes away, he
forgets about it. Yeah, and that has to be constantly
(25:29):
reminded to be that way.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Okay, the NBA is allowing a very physical playoff brand.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
I love it. Yeah, so do I.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
And for the record, that's why you flourished in the playoffs.
You were a physical player. You play defense. Can I
argue that this level of physicality Chris Vench and Steve
Kerr like this is the next level that it? Actually
I could argue benefits the less talented team. This is
going to be a close series because the Knicks aren't pretty.
(26:00):
The Celtics are pretty. Everybody can pass me the Knicks
art and when you let og grab and lean that
the new officiating leans into New York's favor.
Speaker 4 (26:11):
Yeah, you know what, you know what's so crazy about that?
I always said when I played on teams that weren't
wasn't as good, I said, we have to do something different.
When I played at the Park, when I played at AU,
when I played in high school, when we weren't a
better team that team, I said, you got you know what, guys,
And this was the game plan. This was always the
game plan college since I've been a kid, I said,
(26:31):
we gotta junk up the game.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Junk it up.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
We gotta junk the game up. And by saying that,
we gotta foul, we gotta grab, we gotta push, we
gotta do things that they not used to doing. We
gotta take this game to the playgrounds.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
So this is what we said about the Knicks. The
playground is beating the classroom. Yes, and the Knicks are
playground team and the other guys are math guys.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Absolutely, that's exactly what you see right here. And that's
the only way you bring a team that's up here
to you down to your level. You junk it up.
It's like a boxing match, you know what I'm saying.
Like a guy was more talented, but then you start grabbing, holding,
you know, doing things that this better boxer just not
used to doing and you junk it up, body blows,
(27:17):
body bulk grabbing, holding ailblehead button, you start doing things.
And that's what the Knicks are doing right to the Celtics.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
You know I said this. I was very reluctant to
say Jalen Brunson's a one, but I gotta tell you
one is about durability and toughness and resilience and dog. Yeah,
I think he's a one.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I have on the telp Yes, here's here's what I say.
There's four things to be a one. Productivity Ken average
nine a game. You have to be emotionally and physically
ready to play every night. You have to be durable
Kahilon available thirty eight. That's not a why I can't
build around you. And four, you have to have a dog.
You gotta be a dog at least some of the time.
(28:06):
You gotta want to close. You can't run from the shot.
And then I look at him and I go, Okay,
I'm not saying he's Lebron in his prime. I'm not
saying he's Paul Pierce. I'm not saying he's Tatum. But
what box doesn't He's a great closer. He's productive, he's durable,
he's emotionally always available. There are no he has bad games.
(28:26):
He never has a no show game.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
I just like Jaylen Brunson is an amazing player. He's
one of the top point guards. I would love him
to be the next Olympic team when it gets to LA.
I just don't think he can be your best player
on a championship.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Team one A. He can be one A. Yannis goes
to New York, he can be the Okay, right, if
he'll have the ball more than Yannis, he'll hit the
free throws late over Yannis. Yes, but Yannis will be
the force.
Speaker 4 (28:56):
Like Kobe and Shack. You know what I'm saying. Kobe
was the but we all knew Shaq was dominant and
all of that. Yeah, I agree, But like I just
point guards as good as they are, as good as
he is, I don't think a point guard can be
your best player. Now, if your point guard is your
best player on the championship team, that means he's an
all time great. I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Top tens, step magic, Isaiah, that that and that.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Comes around almost never. You have to have the dynamic wing.
I say this all the time. Their dynamic wing has
to be your best player on a championship.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
I mostly agree, Yeah, yeah and so.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
But as good as he is, and they may get
out of the series with the Celtics, I just think
they're missing one piece and it could be like a
Yiannis in New York.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Okay, So I have defended Draymond Green for a long time.
I've said this. The three villains in league history that
I watched were Rodman, Lambier, and Draymond. They leaned into it,
they were comfortable being it. Lamber and Draymond are better
offensively than Rodman. They take your best offensive player. They're
(30:03):
gonna ugly up the game. They're gonna get technicals, they
will be fans will be the rudest and sometimes inappropriate
toward them. Aggression meets aggression, but I don't. So when
Draymond says the league is uh, he feels the league
is picking on him, might take his bro You chose
to be the wrestling heel.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Yeah, yeah, you know what, dramid He definitely chose that.
Like I watched his antics and I'll see it. I
know how guys do it. He like he's flailing purposely
because I've seen it. I've been I've been in the
game where guys do that, and yeah, he's definitely embraced it.
(30:44):
But this has to be a point where he should
studied Dennis Rodman because Dennis Rodman was so good at
getting under your skin without all the extras. Like I
used to force Alonso Morning to get technicals or Karl Malone,
like you know, he was standing at the free I
stare at him little stuff like that, like he would
(31:04):
just get under their skin. I used to watch Robin like, dang,
he not even doing all the bullcrap stuff like dreymonda elbowye,
but he's under this guy's skin and he is out
of his game right now. And I think Draymond should
study that because that's he's like the new generation.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
That Draymond's a little more Bill lambierd tackling.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, yeah, he's more like.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, was there ever a place Obviously when you came
you were from La, so you weren't a real villain
even though you were a Celtic like a lot of
people that loved you in La, did you ever go
into any arena and feel like, man, they hate me here?
Speaker 4 (31:42):
Oh man? A lot of arenas Man, Indiana, Toronto. I'll
never forget that because when I got to Washington, I
said something prior to the playoffs, and I just remember
when I got introduced, it was booze. But I like,
I just think being a Celtic is you're a villain.
Like it doesn't even matter, like how we talk about Tatum,
(32:03):
how we talked about Larry Bird and all the constant
the best Celtics were always just like it was always
the villain Celtic and they always carried you wherever you went.
It carried me when I left Boston, you know, in Brooklyn,
I got booed at the All Star Game. Here in La,
I did. I got introduced with the three point contest.
(32:26):
I was the defending three point champ. And I came
back and the next year was in LA and they
introduced me and they boom and I was like damn,
Like I'm from Street Away, So I mean, it never
bothered me, but that that was probably the only time
it bothered me because it was the All Star Game
and I'm like these everybody here's not LA fans, like, come.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
On, okay, So I did this list earlier. J Mac
didn't love it. I said, don't just because a guy
scores James Harden does mean he's a one. I need
guys that play both ends. I need guys that are
available emotionally, physically. I need dog. And the truth is
(33:10):
this is my current list now. Butler may have been
that four years ago. So my sixth the best sidekicks
Jalen Brown, Butler, Durant, Kawhi, Holmegren, Davis, Davis just offensively,
I'm not quite sure what I get to night tonight,
you said to me, well, where's Lebron.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
Yeah, Lebron should be on this list Top NBA sidekicks.
Jamal Murray should be on this list.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
No, Jamal and Booker were my next two.
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Okay, okay, well, definitely Lebron.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Now, so you think Lebron is a two?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah. I witnessed it the last thirty games
of the season. I saw Luca take over the dynamics
of the of the of the Lakers, become the guy
number one in Jersey, sales cheered amongst the fans, and
Lebron sik the backseat, and that's what pushed them to
the number three seed in the West.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
So I argue there are twenty ones in the league.
J Max like, there's twenty No, okay, so let's do
it again. So he said Halliburton, and I said, that's
a no, not a one.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
What are we talking about? One's coline okay, one productivity?
Speaker 1 (34:17):
No one?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Is he canny be the best player on a championship team?
That's a one?
Speaker 3 (34:21):
To me?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
You don't think Halliburton can win a title?
Speaker 4 (34:23):
I think he can win the title. But can he
be the best player on a championship team?
Speaker 1 (34:28):
They win tonight, he's gonna be in the Eastern Conference
finals against the Knicks.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Can be the best player on a championship.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Well, then there's like four in the world.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
There's only four or five that can win it every year.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Those are the only ones.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
So you're telling me, do you do you? Okay, let
me let me think about this. Hold on, Yes, you
think that team can win.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Yes, it's joker a one. Yes, you're always the best
player in world. Yes, Horta contenders.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Joannis okay, Okay, Tatum, yeah he's sold. Yeah, yeah, but
he did well. Jaylen Brown won the MVP. Okay, but
we all know it's aunt a one. Absolutely okay. I
think is Kawhi no, not no more. Gotta give me
(35:25):
more than forty games.
Speaker 4 (35:26):
Yeah, not no more.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
So you don't think so like I think leadership matters.
I never thought Harden was a one. He didn't defend
by May and June. He was so worn out because
he had the ball in his hands. I never thought
he was a one. I thought he was a great
number to a parent him.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
With somebody else, he could have won it. He didn't
have a good parent.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
How about Donovan Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (35:49):
That's a good one right there.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I think he's one.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
I'm conflicted with Donovan Mitchell because of his size at six'
four sixty. Three that conflicts.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Me, okay So i'll tell you WHAT i never. THOUGHT
i don't Buy indo embiid even when he was. HEALTHIER
i think he disrupts your. OFFENSE i think he's. MOODY
i think he was not, available never been to a
conference champions and When lebron left The east and it
was wide, open couldn't win a second playoff.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
SERIES i think he's been AN mvp in this. League
there's the formula to win it. All you have to
have AN mvp. Candidate that was a.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
WOBBLY, mvp that was one yo.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Kitch everybody was like, me could have got, it could
have got but he was still first.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Team all shouldn't you have to win a second playoff
series in The. East i'm not asking.
Speaker 4 (36:39):
Mummy he had to run into The. Celtics that was
that Was that's, like that's Like baltimore or or The
Buffalo bills keep having to run into each, other or
Or Kansas. City we all know they could probably win,
it but they keep the. Path this is a wrong
path for.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Them so you Like embiid more THAN i. DO i like,
him Like harden more THAN i. Do halliburton has done
Something embiid. Hasn't, yeah he's had a better. Team he's
gonna be on his Second Eastern Conference finals as a.
Kid so you don't you're you're one of these overrated.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Guys, NO i wouldn't have called him over. Rated he's
one of those guys that's mind boggling because it seems
like he elevates his game in the. Playoffs i've seen,
that like now over multiple. Years he's like he's Like
Jimmy butler in a. Way, yes you know What i'm,
Saying Like Jimmy butler kind of like he gets through
the regular season he's fringe all, star but then playoffs
(37:37):
he just becomes this mega, superstar you, Know and that's
How halliburton good senior, man good to see always
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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