Best of The Herd

Colin calls Jayson Tatum "The Beneficiary" after the Celtics took game 3 in their series against the Knicks with 6th Man of the Year Payton Pritchard leading. He tells you why he was right about the Dallas Cowboys and wrong about Derek Carr. Plus, NBA analyst Rachel Nichols joins the show in studio to discuss the best landing spots for Giannis Antetokounmpo now that the 2-time MVP is looking for a trade in the offseason. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to The Herd Podcast. Be sure to
catch us live every weekday on Fox Sports Radio in
noon to three eastern nine am to noon Pacific. Find
your local station for The Herd at Fox Sportsradio dot com,
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to The Herd podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Oh here we go.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
It is a Monday and there is a lot to
talk about lot.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
This is the Herd.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening,
Thanks for making us part of your day. I was
thinking about this Jmac one hour from now. Where Colin
was right, Where Colin was wrong. I was thinking about
this this morning. Is that you always want to be
the man right when you're professional athlete, but you don't
want to be the only man. And you know, the
Warriors have Jimmy Butler, but they're pretty unwatchable without step
They're playing thirteen fourteen guys and you can watch when

(00:53):
Yokich is tired for Denver, they can't store. And we
always say, stop telling me. Jason tATu is the face
of the league. This team is great without him. But
the advantage is he doesn't have to be great, and
they win, and that's a great feeling. And I was
thinking about watching Game three. Tatum was very good early,

(01:16):
but really Peyton Pritchard as the Celtics, who have led
New York by twenty points minimums six of the seven
times they've played this year, they have a much better team,
a much better roster over the last seven to eight years.
Boston's a much better franchise. But when Jason Tatum plays
poorly or doesn't play, the net rating often goes up.

(01:37):
You watch the Warriors without Steph it's hard. They're unwatchable.
You see Jokish is now gassed, Denver can't score. You
see the value and the importance. And I love chet Holmgren,
but if Sga is off, Oklahoma City's usually gonna lose.
And I'm watching Tatum with the Celtics. He's just another

(01:58):
successful banker at Deutsch I mean, they've got like eight
guys that can shoot threes. Peyton Pritchard in Game three
was the dog. He was the guy. And you watch
the Celtics, you could make an argument if you're looking
for a nickname for Tatum, it's the beneficiary, beneficiary of
Brad Stevens of Danny Ainge of a roster that is

(02:20):
easily the most complete in the league that includes ocase
you see what Cleveland's having all sorts of trouble. Boston's
trouble is sometimes they can't hit their threes. That's like
their only issue. Twitchy defenders sighs. For God's sakes, they
have three point guards. The Celtics are two things. One

(02:40):
excellent front office, secondly the formula. And I'm watching I'm
watching Tatum and he's such a nice guy, and he
is such collaborative guy that the beneficiary. Sometimes he just
melts into the fabric. He's just another really good player,
the most talented player on that team. But as I'm

(03:02):
watching them play the Knicks, it's Peyton Pritchard that has
the hot hand. There have been moments when al Horford
from the corner has it, or Jalen Brown is the
MVP of the Eastern Conference Finals last year, or the
finals when you look at the Denver Nuggets when Jokic
sits or doesn't play, the net reate rating plummets. Actually,

(03:23):
the last couple of years with and without Tatum playoffs
regular season, it goes up for Boston and that's not
a criticism. It's like when you go to work and
there's so much depth of roster and so much excellence at.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Work that you don't get all the credit.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Sometimes you don't even win mvper Employee of the Month,
but you drive to the arena knowing you don't have
to carry the team because in pro sports you can
take all the money you want. Losing stinks, and Boston
just doesn't lose much. I have a hard time believing
after losing the first two games at home they can

(04:00):
come back and win the series. But why they're clearly
the better team. But I was listening to Tatum after
and it's his not ambivalence, it's his reality and understanding
and self awareness that he is part of something unbelievable
and because of that, he'll probably never quite get the
credit of the jokich SGAs Kobe and his primer MJ.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
You understand.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
What comes with me and that guy, Right, I live
a great life. I ain't gonna lie. It's a lot
of say I make a lot of money, I take
care of my family. I've been able to experience a
lot of things. But you also have to accept what
comes with that, right, I get a lot of praise,
I get a lot of credit, I get a lot

(04:49):
of accolades, but you know I'm not perfect. There's times
where you know I've needed to play better, I needed
to do more, and you know that's what comes with
being you know, that.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Guy on a team with a bunch of guys. All right,
Schalms reporting this morning, All you buck fans so mean
to me for years. When I suggested this, go ahead,
bring the apologies. I'll accept him. Words are hurtful. Yeah,
Jannis is going to explore the best fit outside of Milwaukee.

(05:21):
I won't demand an apology, but again, it's been very
hurtful the last three years. Listen, facts, you got twelve
great years from him. If you've had twelve great years
outside of maybe your kids, twelve great years from a boss,
from a relationship, that's a lot of good. That's a

(05:44):
big chapter of your life. You're the oldest team in
the league. You don't control your first round picks for
I think five years. You've been creaky for years. Everybody
saw it coming. It's time to blow it up and
start over. The last three years, Yannis has given you
do thirty points a game, fifty nine percent from the field.
He's averaging that in the last three seasons and eleven

(06:05):
rebounds and you don't have a playoff series.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Win the day.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Move felt nice, but it was desperate. Three different coaches,
three first round exits. You have replaced in Milwaukee everything
under the hood, and you're still stuck with a broken
down hooptie.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
That's all you got.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Spark plugs and new windshield wipers will not do. You
got twelve years out of it, twelve great years in
a trophy.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Think of those great Sacramento King teams. No trophies.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Think about Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco, all that money,
all those wins, no trophies. Baltimore Ravens have dominated the
regular season. That feels like three straight years in the
Afcwick Mahomes, no trophies, Josh Allen, no trophies. Didn't forgot
one here, right, Den forgot one. Milwaukee got one with

(07:05):
Luel Sinder got one with the honess. You moved off
him and were viable for a decade. You probably won't
get everything you want, But if you look at what
Houston could provide and what Oklahoma City could provide and
San Antonio could give you all would be interested, and
you can learn from the mistake.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
Dallas.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Mate, So Dallas, the Mavericks bizarrely and foolishly sent Luca
to a Western conference rival.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Send the honis.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
The three teams that will create the best packages are
all West your East. Okay, see San Antonio Houston. Send
him West. If you meet him, it'll be in the finals.
You're not gonna have seven years of him knocking you out,
giving you a visual facial. You're not going to get that.
And then you supplement your roster. You'll get four first

(08:01):
round picks. Houston could give you three starters. Get younger,
get flexible, control some first round picks in the much
weaker East. Outside of Boston, everybody else is close. I mean,
Cleveland's falling apart, Indiana's beatable. Do you trust Philadelphia? I
like Boston a lot, but they struggle to meet the

(08:21):
Knicks at home. Everybody outside of the Celtics roster beatable close.
So it's one of those things where sell him West,
get your picks in the weak East.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Buzz I was talking to a.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
Friend yesterday, very shrewd guy in business, and he's had
clients for years. He does very well for himself. And
you know, I tend to ask this when I meet
somebody or a friend. We get talking a little bit
of business, and I said, what do they all have
in common? He says, one thing I've learned through the years,
all my aplus clients, they're all decisive. They know what

(08:57):
they want and they go for it. Because, as f
Bezos has often said, people overestimate how much a mistrade
or a deal that goes a little sideways. You over evaluate,
you over concern yourself with the bad. That's how our

(09:17):
brains work. Milwaukee, You're probably never gonna get somebody in
the draft that's as good as Yannis, But you got
a trophy. You got twelve years, get four first round picks.
One of those four is gonna hit. Get three starters,
two bench guys. All this is fear. You are a
non viable franchise right now, by the way, Golden State,

(09:39):
and I'll get to this later, Golden State's got to
think about doing this because in the West, which is
much deeper, much better, with Houston, San Antonio and OKC
as bad as they'll be now, you do not Golden
State want to become Jiannis in the Bucks with Steph.
But I think everybody in Milwaukee's like, oh, well, what
we become? Who cares Niners, Ravens, Bills, Sacramento Kings that

(10:03):
are on trophies. We don't know if okay Se will
ever get one. You got one with Louel Sinder with Yannis,
take a big swing, be decisive. So Shaan's reporting he
is now going to explore options. I know there's a
lot of people that want Jannis. I think most will

(10:23):
have to settle for the k D sweepstakes over the
Yannas sweepstakes, because I think you would admit this, It's
probably gonna take minimum three, maybe five first rounders and
starters to get him, and I don't think most teams
are equipped. Houston is OKC is san Antonio could be
san Antonio. By the way, the NBA Draft lottery is tonight.

(10:46):
If san Antonio, I'm kind of rooting for no wenby Castle,
the rookie of year point Guard and Cooper flag Well
Deer and Fox also.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
Like there's no chances pers of getting it. But regarding Yannis,
what do you think the market's like for him? Is
it more the Bucks are like we want the best
deal or we want to make Ganna's happy, because this
is where it could get Dicey Collin. If they say, hey,
the best deal we're getting is from Brooklyn, Yannis, You're
headed to Brooklyn.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
He's not going to be happy with that.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Well, my job once I sell the house, it's not
my concern. Once you move him. I'm not in the
happiness business. I'm getting you know, remember when Portland Dame said, well,
I won't do this boy if you move Dame and
he's not happy. Players are selfish. They take care of themselves.
Teams have to take care of themselves and their fans
and their advertisers.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
So I don't worry about that.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
I just don't think many teams are equipped like I
think if san Antonio, for instance, won the lottery tonight
and knew Cooper Flag was coming, and they said, wemby
Yannis Cooper Flag, then they can move Castle the point
guard because somebody would say, okay, I want Castle. I
want a seven time All Star point guard. I want

(12:00):
the next four first round picks. So that's it's interesting tonight.
If san Antonio wins the draft lottery, they get a
huge leg up on getting you on.

Speaker 4 (12:14):
Well, Houston also has like a three percent chance to.

Speaker 5 (12:16):
Win the lottery right there in the mix.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
And I'll just say this, if the Knicks somehow win
tonight against the Celtics, I think we need to accelerate
the Boston getting.

Speaker 5 (12:24):
Giannis this discussion, because.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
If Boston loses his series, you look at a new head
coach and we got to blow.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
It up over the record.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
The NHL draft just had their that the team would
like one two, three percent one. Oh wow, yeah, No,
it happens more than you think. Cleveland years ago got it.
It happens way more than you think. Atlanta last year
in the NBA, Atlanta had three percent chance they won last.

Speaker 5 (12:49):
Year's lot You didn't really want to win, No.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
You didn't.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
But the point is this idea, the frozen envelope with ewing. Cleveland,
Orlando won back to back lotteries, Atlanta won. The New
York Islanders just won the NHL lottery. They had like
one and a half two persons.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
They don't need Cooper Flag in the West, we need
him in the East. East has like no good players. Collin,
come on, you gotta ship Yanni.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
You are or if you are the Spurs and you
win it tonight, Wemby Cooper Flag, I can give away
my my all and by the rookie of the year.
That is a that is as good as that's better
than Shengoon, that's better than Jalen Green, that's but that
is a massive benefit for Santa.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Which you trade Cooper Flag and Castle and whatever else salary?

Speaker 2 (13:33):
No for you, honest, not too much.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
No, you know what, Castle and Cooper Flag can hit
those free throws with a minute forty left.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Oh, come on, I like Giannis, He's had three great years.
So I'm not giving those two guys up.

Speaker 1 (13:44):
Cooper Flag could be a fifteen year, twenty four a
game guy twenty four, nine and eight.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Way, I'm giving it up.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Tonight's lottery is fascinating because you have a dominant star.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
Week one. Yeah, I'm fired up.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yeah, j Maac, we got Colin Wright Colin wrong On
a Monday.

Speaker 6 (14:03):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 7 (14:12):
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(14:33):
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Speaker 2 (14:42):
I mean that says something, right, So check us out.

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Speaker 2 (14:52):
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Speaker 1 (15:08):
All right, Welcome back on a Monday, Colin Wright, Colin Wrang,
Matt hasselback forty five minutes from now. We were just
talking during the break, what if what if Utah won it?
And Utah says, listen, we will give up our number
one pick Milwaukee. You can have Cooper Flag. We'll take
you on us. Now you'd have to have you'd have
to give him some stuff because salaries have to match.
But that's a real argument. Would you take Cooper Flag?

(15:31):
Who By the way, he's gonna work to the degree
I mean, listen, generally speaking, if the scouts say are like,
it's gonna work like Andrew luck was a it's gonna work.
Tiger Woods, he's gonna be great, Bryce Harper, it's gonna work.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Cooper Flag.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Every scout will tell you he's got eighteen points as
a rookie. You know, he just does everything well. He's
kind of I would say his comp is Jason Tatum.
So let's say he's ninety five percent of Jason Tatum.
You have a multiple time All Star and you're gonna
have He's not gonna cost much initially, and you're probably
remember he's only eighteen years old. Last year at Duke,

(16:08):
he should have been Cooper Flag should have been a
senior in high school last year at Duke. So you
are getting a kid where you may get nine to
twelve years of prime. The way athletes are aging, Jannis,
you got probably three more years of prime. So what
if a Uta. I would love to see Utah win it.
The economy's great. I think the owner, Ryan Smith's a

(16:30):
brilliant guy. I have spent a lot of my time
off time in Utah. It's an incredibly well run, franchised,
super young, smart owners, great city, almost like collegiate fans.
If you're asking me who I'd like to win, I
think Utah winning would be great, and it would be
fascinating to watch Danny Ainge between the owner and Ange

(16:50):
and they got some pieces. Kessler's a really interesting player.
I kind of would like to see Utah win it
and just see if Danny Ainge goes, hey, we've been
building for a few years, let's go get Yannis. That
would be fat. Would you give up Cooper flag for Yannis?
I don't know if I will. I don't think it
is really something you got to sit and talk about,

(17:13):
because I do think there are times when I mean,
I love Trevor Lawrence, but remember the quarterback. But remember
Greg Cosell came on my show before he got drafted
and said, yeah, I don't think he's nearly as good
as Josh Allen.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Oh come on, Greg, Greg was right.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
I love Caleb Williams, but all my gms are like
his Accuracyson issue. He's got to clean his feet up,
little emotional, that fingernail thing. Very rarely do you get
every scout in GM that guy's really good.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Now?

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Is he twenty one a game or twenty eight? I
think he's probably somewhere in between. But when I watch
him play, he just coincidentally went to the same college
I see Jason Tatum. So if I got ninety to
ninety five percent of that, I'm going to get twelve
years barring injury, twelve years of excellent and half of
it at a really good price point. You gotta think

(18:03):
about that. So the NBA Draft Lottery one of my
favorite non athletic events in sports. It's four Pacific, seven Eastern.
I can't wait, Jamack, go you Todd Jazz Jmack with
the news.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
No, no, no, this is the Herdline news. I was
gonna float.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
We could get an adult beverage together and watch the draft.

Speaker 5 (18:27):
I would, unfortunately have a men's basketball game tonight.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
H six thirty.

Speaker 5 (18:31):
Can't freak before a men's league.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
Get come on, why not, come on, come off the bench?
Why not?

Speaker 4 (18:36):
All right, let's start with the Indiana Pacers. Hey, listen,
one guy here called the Pacers. You did over the Cats.
You did it topping going doctor j there Wow. And
Indiana was up by let me check this a forty
one at halftime.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
What and then it got worse.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
Colin Donovan Mitchell did not play in the second half.
You guys to get an MRI did not look good.
They're calling it maybe a cast issue.

Speaker 8 (18:58):
Colin.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
It's over. It's over. It's absolutely over.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
I could not believe what I like when I watched
the games this weekend. When I watch I have this
theory on the Denver Nuggets. I was telling Ryan this,
I can tell five minutes into every Nuggets game how
it's gonna go, because they have a lot of veterans.
If they're tired and lack energy in the first five minutes,
it's like it's just they may keep it close, but.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
They'll run out of gas.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
If they're energized and warm ups, they're wearing stuff for
the game, and they give you great energy early. That
means they've got enough for four quarters. Oklahoma City, you
felt four minutes in five minutes in you're like their
depth and Roster Denver looks gassed. Now Indiana, now I
love them over Milwaukee. You loved them over Cleveland. What

(19:46):
they do really well is they played their game way
more than you playing yours. If you watch the Pacers,
it's like, and Carlisle is a great coach. We're gonna
do what we do. We're not gonna let that was
always you, kitch. Just keep remember when Lebron said, Jokich
plays at his speed and you can't speed him up
and you can't slow him down. Indiana kind of plays it.

(20:07):
Their pacer does their thinging and that's Halliburton controlling the
pace of their offense.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
Yeah, and you know you mentioned Carlisle, he does know
even up three one, job's not finished yet for the Pacers.

Speaker 9 (20:19):
We're gonna keep approaching this like we have everything to prove,
and we know people don't believe in us, and so
we're gonna just stay in the fight and keep fighting.
But we got to stay in the present moment as
much as we can try to maintain an edge. You know,
there's gonna be a big Haymaker coming on whatever day
it is Tuesday.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, Caitlin Clark and Halliburton pretty good next five years
in Indy.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
Yeah, I saw some social media activity around how good
sports are in Indiana. I guess the Hoosiers got a
new coach. Notre Dame just went to the National Championship.

Speaker 5 (20:54):
Like, everything's coming up Indiana right now.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
I'll say this, the Pacers, if they close out the
series in five dono Eventel may not play, They're gonna.

Speaker 5 (21:03):
Have probably like five or six days rest. While the
Celtics and.

Speaker 10 (21:05):
Knicks being each other up.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
I feel like Indy doesn't need rest, true because they're
not an old team, you know, like Denver needs rest. Oh,
like the Lakers needed rest. There are teams that need rest.
I think Indiana is one of those. Roll the ball
out they can play.

Speaker 5 (21:20):
It's weird.

Speaker 4 (21:20):
We talked about the Cavs all season. They were sixty
something wins totally. I think they started fifteen to zero,
and yesterday's performance is probably the most gutless game I've seen.
You get down forty one at halftime. You never see
that from like a sixty wind Oh, and.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
That's that is something It is okay to lose playoff
games like you don't want to lose the way Boston
did in Game two. But at least Boston didn't quit.
They just couldn't. Their formula didn't work. They screwed up,
their math didn't work. Cleveland, no show. That game was awful.

Speaker 5 (21:50):
Early after dominating Game three and winning handlely.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Remember, and they've got youth. It's not like they were tired.
They've got youth on that roster.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Not good at all.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
Right, let's go to the NFL Colin Brock Party. Deals
still not done, but Tom Pelisarro NFL Network expects a
contract to be completed by the start of training camp.

Speaker 5 (22:10):
Right around the corner. Palisarro adds he anticipates the contract.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
To be somewhere in the fifteen million dollar range. I
don't know that that means forty eight or fifty five,
But we continue to do this dance and you love
to talk brock Party.

Speaker 5 (22:23):
I think we're going to be doing this for another
few weeks.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
If it comes in at forty five million or less,
I will pick them for third place. If it's fifty
two or more, get the brooms out, time to clean
out the front office.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
I feel like you are becoming a politician who just
wants to wind them deal. I would take party at
forty five.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Brock perty No, he's my taruff yeah, bright, Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
I'm not going to get too worked up. I think
it's gonna be fine. We've heard no noise out of
the Pretty camp. He's not putting cryptic crap on social media.
He's handling it well.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
I think it's he runs the offense very well. He
deserves to be compensated. His family probably will not ever
watch this show. But numbers matter. If you give me
Josh Allen, you're gonna win those. If you give me
Brought Pretty or Sam Donald as a team, I need
to win those. Okay, you're benefiting greatly. I mean obviously

(23:20):
Sam Donald's career, Kevin O'Connell was in a left tackle
and Justin Jefferson.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Are a part of it. So these numbers matter.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
If if Dak isn't at sixty, he's at forty two,
Dallas has a number two receiver and doesn't have to
get Pickens, and they've got a great all pro tight
end next to Ferguson.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
These numbers matter.

Speaker 5 (23:42):
You know you're my guy, but you just put purty
in Sam Donald's.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
He's not his talented as Sam.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
He went to a super Bowl and they've barely lost
in overtime.

Speaker 5 (23:54):
Okay, Josh Allen, who you love? Who everybody loves? How
many super Bowls has he been to? I lost track?
I'm sorry, I forgot what's the number?

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Anyone? Anyone?

Speaker 7 (24:02):
Uh?

Speaker 5 (24:02):
Okay, So let's just not diminish party. He is a
great quarterback.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
I know he went in the seventh round and he
struggles and include weather, he struggles with clouds. All right,
let's just do I don't want to argue with you
thirty minutes in. Come on, it's a Monday Colin Final Stories,
and we've got the first game of the NFL season.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
What It was.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
Officially announced that the defending champion Eagles are going to
open as a seven point favorite when they host the
Cowboys on Thursday, September.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
I'll tell you right now, I've already bet Philadelphia. I'm
going to go online to my DK app in one second.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
At home, only favored by a touchdown. Hey, that's a
win for the Cowboys. They don't have to go to
ik Philly in like December.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
I'm actually you know what, you know what They're saying,
let's get Dallas on early because by week seven there'll
be four games back.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
That's what that is. That is get Dallas on early.

Speaker 5 (24:56):
Let's not a bad take.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, I mean you walk the Cowboys on. People will
watch the Cowboys in week one. I'm telling you right now,
by week eight that is a two or three win team.
But they'll be healthy week one. Schottenheimer's an offensive coach.
He can bring some wiggles.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
I don't have the numbers yet, but I do believe
Super Bowl champs kind of sort of struggle out of
the gate. We do have that they are fifteen and
five in the NFL kickoff game is two thousand and four.
But like covering a touchdown against Dallas, who's going to
be motivated and healthy? Right?

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Well, it is You're a big underdog. People are going
to say going into that game, Dallas is awful and
going to get humiliated. You're going to get the best
Dallas effort. Remember a couple of years ago Detroit beat
Kansas City. They're really good teams. Now with a seventeen
game schedule, like Philadelphia won't play anybody that's remotely dinged up.
Dallas may because the game means more for Dallas. Dallas

(25:53):
knows we don't have Philadelphia's depths of roster, so guys,
you steal one here. We need Philadelphia can slow grow slow.

Speaker 4 (26:03):
Bill fifteen and five is skewed by like Tom Brady
and Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Like.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
I love Jalen Hurts. I think he's the top five guy.
But yeah, you want Eagles, I may go head.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
To head with you on that. I may take the
points at the Dell.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Excite of that. It's already been announced.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
It's probably be the only game I bet for.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
The show Wednesdays the official NFL schedule release, Yeah, which
is we've talked about this is a great day in America.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
Yeah, well, we'll know exactly how the Jets are going
to be next year because I know that's the first team.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Better not go out Tuesday night. Wednesday's going to be
a show.

Speaker 4 (26:33):
By the way, do you remember two years ago the
excitement about the Jets in the offseason when they got Rogers,
not from this microphone, from this one.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, that one over there for exciting though, I was
thinking like.

Speaker 5 (26:44):
Super Bowl champions.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
He went down on what played for from the season,
Oh god, Shamack with the news.

Speaker 6 (26:53):
Well, that's the news, and thanks for stopping by the
live show.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
We talk about this all the time. Everybody knows in
baseball there's a salary disparity, a payroll disparity. And if
you look right now in Major League Baseball, the rich
teams are in first place. Okay, Yankees are crushing, Dodgers
are crushing.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
We know that.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
In football. I don't think most fans talk about this
or think about this. You think it's much more even.
But it does matter that the Roonies don't have a
lot of money and Stan Kronkey and the Rams are
really rich. It matters for free agents and facilities and spending.
It just does matter. And one of the things that's
become very clear since Steve Bashadi bought the Baltimore Ravens

(27:31):
is that he's the richest donor and he's the smartest donor.
And for the last sixteen years, if you count playoffs,
the Ravens are the winningest team with a Flacco, with
a Lamar Jackson. And I think it all starts with
Steve Bashadi upstairs. So the Chadure Sanders I want to
talk about this. So here's a prime example. Shaduur Sanders.
They had three day mini camp for the Cleveland Browns,

(27:53):
and now Jimmy Haslam actually has some money. The Bengals
owners and the Rooneys are bottom, near the bottom of
the league in Networth. But what the Browns have is
what I would call the Buffalo Bills used to have.
This year's ago pre Josh Allen low sports self esteem
and years ago Buffalo. Ryan Fitzpatrick in Buffalo got AFC

(28:16):
Offensive Player of the Month and in October they signed
him too a six year contract. Oh my god, somebody
likes us. So Jimmy Haslam, who's got some money. He
drafted Johnny Manziel, Baker Mayfield and Deshaun Watson. Those were
his calls headlines. So Shadour Sanders at the Thursday, Friday,
Saturday three day rookie mini camp. There's a lot of

(28:38):
speculation he wanted Shadduur Sanders. The staff drafted Dylan Gabriel
Oregon two rounds earlier, and they were doing that not
because they necessarily loved Dylan Gabriel. They liked him, but
they thought it would stop their impulsive owner from forcing
them to draft in round four Shadoor Sanders. So that's

(28:59):
some the speculation. I tend to believe it based on
Jimmy HASLM, the owner of the Browns history.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
You know, ridiculous to.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Sean deal drafting Johnny Manziel Baker you can live with
because Baker can really play. But Baker was a personality
and that's big for low sports self esteem teams. And
so here they went this weekend and the video it's
just perfect for Jimmy Haslam. All the video out of
rookie camp is Shador Sanders, not the guy drafted two

(29:32):
spots ahead, not the quarterback with a much better college
resume of winning. It was all Shador Sanders. I don't
blame the kid by the way, I would have drafted
him higher. I think he's a franchise quarterback. I don't
think he's great. I think he's a much better version
of like a Kenny Pickett. But Kenny Pickett I always
thought was a backup. I think Schador can start in
this league. I may be in the minority among gms.

(29:55):
I don't like the noise with dad and everything, But
here was Shdor Sanders again saying the right things.

Speaker 11 (30:03):
Of course, it's day by day. I just find something
I want to perfect and just perfect it to the
best of my abilities. And that's how I really focus
on and just being there, just being a leader, being
a great teammate, doing what I need to do whenever
it is. So I'm just thankful for opportunity.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
Uh.

Speaker 11 (30:21):
Things could have been a lot worse. But I'm here
smiling in front of you all at this facility right now.
From my job here isn't to prove people wrong, like
I prove myself right. That's that's that's and I and
I fully self belief, you know, And uh with those
people say, that's that's just the opinion.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
For the record, I don't think the Browns are gonna
be any good, but they're gonna be interesting. And there's
many elements of this team I love. I love the
head coach, I love the GM, I love Miles Garrett.
There's a lot of things about Cleveland. I like it's
the upstairs thing. Look at this division. The better the owner.
Cincinnati's is cheap, Steeters are owners Rooney's second poorest. Cleveland's

(31:02):
is dysfunctional. Butshat he's the richest, smartest and winningest for
sixteen years. So I don't blame chaduur to me. This
has always been an ownership situation, but the owner got
what he wanted. Chadueur is all over video, all over
the country, the most interesting rookie. Whether he's the best
rookie or not, I doubt we'll see. Cam Ward apparently

(31:24):
was really good with Tennessee. It's rookie, cam don't take
too much out of it. But when I look at Shaduur,
all I can think of is Johnny Manziel, Deshaun Watson,
Baker Mayfield, and Ryan Fitzpatrick getting a six year deal
in Buffalo after having a great month in September. This
is what happens. This is what losing causes. Hey, notice me,

(31:44):
pay attention to me. Hope it ends well. I've got
my doubts. Colin Wright, Colin Wrong Top of the Hour.

Speaker 6 (31:51):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in noon. Easter not a em Pacific.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
It is a Monday live in Los Angeles. It's the Herd.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening.
Thanks for making us part of your day. Nice to
be in today. J Mac.

Speaker 2 (32:06):
The NBA Ping Pong Ball Draft lottery tonight. Very exciting,
very exciting, weather.

Speaker 5 (32:12):
It was so amazing out of here all weekend. I
forgot to ask you get your son, little son's out,
guns out for you.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
No.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
I worked out, had a great time, sad. Watched a
lot of.

Speaker 5 (32:20):
NBA stuff, a lot of bad NBA basketball.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yesterday, went and had a beer with a buddy.

Speaker 5 (32:27):
That Celtics Knicks game Saturday was unwatchable, kind of watchable.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Be honest with you, why if I had you know,
I think Boston's gonna win the series.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Well, not if the Knicks win tonight. If the Knicks
win tonight, I think they got a great chance to
win the series.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Nick.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
If the next win tonight, they're gonna win the series.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
By the way, Celtics have led every game by twenty
up the seven games this year.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
That's not great.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
It's their formula, all right, It's a Monday right wrong,
as Ohole was plenty of both.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Here we go where Colin was right.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Jannis, according to Shams, is going to explore the best
fits outside of Milwaukee. We've been saying this for the
last year to year and a half. You got a trophy.
You don't control your first picks. You're not close to
being in Indiana a Cleveland at Boston an OKC, and
you're not close to being a San Antonio in Houston.

(33:17):
Potentially after the draft lottery tonight, it's time to reboot,
and according to Shams, that's what Milwaukee and Yanni's plan
to do. Where Colin was raw, if you'd have told
me the Knicks would be Boston both times in Boston,
I'd have said you're crazy. If it had told me
Boston would lead by twenty in both games or more

(33:37):
and still lose, I'd to say impossible, But the impossible happen.
Hard to explain what I watched in Boston is the
Knicks currently lead two to one.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
Again very clearly.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
One roster has eight guys who can shoot, pass, and
handle the ball. New York is not that roster. But
if they win tonight, Boston's in big trouble. Where Colin
was right, I said teams didn't want to draft Shanor
Sanders once he got out of the first round because
they didn't want to Tim Tebow's circus. And sure enough,

(34:11):
even though he was the second quarterback taken by the
Cleveland Browns. What were the questions about from the Cleveland
media at camp?

Speaker 12 (34:21):
This will probably fall in deaf ears, but don't look
too much into it. There's plenty of reps. There's a
lot of time between now and September, so we'll have
a plan. But it's an all encompassing evaluation. It's not
something that it's just based on the practice reps. There's
a lot that goes.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
Into first questions, why is chadu or not getting the
starting reps? You knew it was coming. It's Tebow two
point zero where Colin was raw. Derek Carr retired, I listen.
I always liked him, a four time All Pro during
the bad al Pro bowler during the Al Davis Cuddy years,

(34:58):
which is hard to do. He was a life preserver
for a terribly run franchise. Third season in the league,
he was third in the MVP vote second round rut
of Fresno State. I liked him a lot, but there's
not much you can do. The Raiders were a mess
when he was there. And then Dennis Allen is not
a head coach, he's more of a coordinator. I thought
he was going to have a Philip Rivers career where

(35:19):
you didn't maybe watch a ton of them in college,
but you're going to look at the end of his
career and there'd be some Hall of Fame votes, and
he retired yesterday and it never transpired.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Where Colin was right.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
Well, the Athletic is reporting that NFL teams laughed at
the Cowboys for giving up a third round pick for
George Pickens, the very talented but an incredibly volatle wide receiver.
And as we said, when Mike Tomlin moves off a
drama filled offensive playmaker, they do not recover. I can

(35:53):
give you about seven examples. This is also Jerry Jones
once again is the NFL front offices have got younger
and shrewder. The Cowboys are giving away draft picks like skittles.
The Cowboys, to me have one of the weaker rosters
overall in the league.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Where Colin was wrong.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Julius Randall. Where did this come from? I always kind
of liked him, but his assist totals have gone through
the roof. He has led Julius Randall has led the
Tea Wolves and assists. And by the way, with New York,
they wanted him to be a one pre Jalen Brunson,
and that's not what he is. But I never saw
him as a two. I saw him as a three.
He was great against the Lakers. He's been excellent in

(36:36):
this series. He had a triple double Saturday, and we
just got to be honest, here, is it late developing? No,
it's probably this staff Chris Finch has assembled knows how
to use him. I don't think he's a better player.
I think he is used more efficiently in Minnesota and
good for Julius Randall. Where Colin was right, I did

(36:57):
not buy the odds makers who had ok C at
minus eight hundred to bury the Nuggets. I said this
is gonna be a six or seven game series. Jokich
is the best player in the world, and even though
I love okc's roster construct and depth, I would take
the Nuggets starting five if he gave me a quarter
to play for the championship. Again, okase is built to

(37:19):
win the entire thing, and maybe Denver, with no bench isn't.
But it was disrespectful the odds had this thing being
a four or five game series, and I'm sorry. Denver's
got three great playoff veterans who have been a lot
of these close, big games. Where Colin was right, well,
the Steelers entered twenty twenty five as the only team

(37:43):
in the league without their top quarterback, running back, wide receiver,
and left tackle from last year. I have said this
for years. They don't take offense seriously. Once again, third
year in a row, they are among the league leaders
and defense spending. I'll get to this later, but they
become opposite of the Rams with an offensive coach, an

(38:06):
offensive spending, and no drama. But it is remarkable. There's
only one team in this league quarterback, running back, wide receiver,
left tackle, gon Gone Gone Gone in.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
An offensive league.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
I like Mike Tomlin, respect the Roonies, but they just
feel out of touch for twenty twenty five NFL football.
Where Colin was right, where Colin was wrong with that
Matt Hasselbeck, eighteen years in the league is now joining us. Yeah,
it's interesting. I mean, I don't think this is embellishing.
Pickens is a young player. He's talented, but everybody knows

(38:42):
in the league. Everybody knew Des Bryant was a little
emotional or Stefan Dicks. There's players that come with a
reputation if you were if you're Dak and you know Pickens' reputation.
If Mike Tomlin moves off him a very tolerant guy.
There's probably something there. How would you address it? Would
you communicate with him?

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Earley?

Speaker 1 (39:01):
What do you do knowing you're bringing somebody into the
locker room that comes with a personality and probably some demands.

Speaker 13 (39:14):
You're a little grumpy on the Monday Colin, look and
listening to you, man, Now listen, I think you kill
him with kindness.

Speaker 10 (39:20):
It's a clean slate. You give everybody a chance. At
least that's what I did.

Speaker 13 (39:23):
You know, we signed guys all the time that maybe
had a checkered pass on their previous team, and then
it's a clean slate, like I'm going to give you
a chance to lose my respect, I guess, is how
I would think of it. I mean, when we got
Marshawn Lynch to our team, Pete Carroll.

Speaker 10 (39:38):
Did a good job.

Speaker 13 (39:38):
Who killed him with kindness? He basically basically got run
out of Buffalo. We killed him with kindness. We told
him what the standard was at our place. We didn't
have a lot of rules. We had three rules, but
they mattered. Those three mattered. We weren't gonna have ten rules.

Speaker 10 (39:52):
We had three of them, and that's what we care about.
And he got on board.

Speaker 13 (39:56):
And he was a great teammate, Like he was incredible
the entire time that I was teammates with him, and
and then I would even say beyond So I think if.

Speaker 10 (40:02):
Your Dak get a you get a wide receiver.

Speaker 13 (40:04):
Wide receivers can be a little bit of high maintenance
comes with the talent level. There's a lot of talent
at wide receiver. George Pickens in this case has a
ton of talent, huge upside. You give it, You give
him a chance because ultimately, the chemistry between quarterback and
a playmaker like that. I mean, that's you could win
or lose two or three games just on that alone.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
You know.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
I I look at.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
The Cowboys Eagles is the first game of the year,
and my take is the NFL said, we don't know
how good Dallas is going to be, so we're going
to get him right up front and get a Cowboy
game early. We don't know by week eight what they
look like. Philadelphi, we were talking about this is that
when you plan a Super Bowl, everybody wants to get paid.
Philadelphia is going to happen. They moved off some players,

(40:49):
but this is a big and there's some ego in
this organization. Which I'm totally comfortable with when you are
the first game a couple of years ago, Lions beat
the Chiefs at Arrowhead. When you've won a Super Bowl
or been Super Bowl, you're the high profile team is off.
Is an off season different? Does it feel a little
different when you've been in the Super Bowl?

Speaker 10 (41:08):
Yeah? Absolutely.

Speaker 13 (41:09):
I mean, first of all, I'm surprised by this Week
one matchup. I'm not sure if you are divisional Cowboys.
I mean, the Cowboys will rate well anytime. You don't
need the Cowboys week one. You could throw the Chargers,
the Bengals or somebody up there. But no, the off
season is very different. And I remember, you know, even
my rookie year, I came into the Green Bay Packers,
they were coming off of their you know, two super

(41:30):
Bowls in a row. I remember when we were coming
off of our Super Bowl in Seattle. Mike Holmgren was
the head coach. The talking points are different, the coaching
points are different.

Speaker 10 (41:39):
You know, basically, you got to come back down the mountain.

Speaker 13 (41:42):
You know, the whole season you're talking about climbing a mountain.
It's twenty games, it's climbing a mountain. You don't just
like start fresh. You got to come back down off
that high, and I think that's a hard part. You know,
sometimes there's a little bit of fat cat syndrome. You know,
you're on the banquet tour and on the you know,
vacation tour, you forget what got you there. But then
other times it's in free agency. Guys leave, coaches leave,

(42:05):
everyone gets promoted, and your team isn't quite the same team.
And so no matter who you are, I think you
got to realize last year is last year and you
better buckle your chin strap and come to play in
twenty twenty five because your weak one opponent, I mean,
you got to target on your back for everybody, but
especially that week one opponent.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
I swear this is not a Shador Sanders question, but
both the Saints now with Derek Carr's retirement, and the
Browns have an open quarterback competition.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
You don't get a lot of those in the NFL,
Like you just don't.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Were you ever part of an open quarterback or at
least you went in and there were spots open? And
how do it divvy up snaps and how does it work?
Because you don't get many of it. That's a college issue,
that's not a pro issue.

Speaker 13 (42:52):
Yeah, well, listen, every situation is a little bit different,
and I always viewed it as it was an open competition.
I mean, going back to that rookie year, I remember
Mike Hombren saying to our team, the Green Bay Packers,
he said, listen, I don't care how much you make
where you were drafted. The best players are going to play.
Then he said, now, granted, I expect Reggie White to
be our starting defensive end. I expect Brett fav to
be our starting quarterback. But the best players will play.

(43:14):
I think the great organizations have the confidence to do that.
Thinking back to Seattle and Pete Carroll maybe his third
year there, they were paying a ton of money to
a bunch of other quarterbacks, and they had the courage
to start Russell Wilson, a rookie third rounder.

Speaker 10 (43:28):
They played the best player. That's unusual. People don't usually
do that. So the reps are usually.

Speaker 13 (43:34):
Divvied up how they expected to go, how they wanted
to go, where's their money invested, And so for a
late round pick, it's tough. Like, if I'm being honest,
there's going to be on rare occasions, are you even
getting snaps with the first strinth center like not in
a live situation.

Speaker 10 (43:54):
And so there's going to be all these things.

Speaker 13 (43:55):
You're going to basically have to make it the most
of every single opportunity. And I always found it it
was a lot easier when it was clearly defined. Yeah,
not necessarily to the public, but it was clearly defined
inside the building, inside that quarterback room. Here's what you're
actually competing for. Here's what's open to you. And you
know it's Those are uncomfortable conversations, but I think it's

(44:17):
best when those conversations are out on the table and
they're actually had.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Okay, So you have to have at least four to
five new playoff teams on an annual basis. Now, I
did very well last year in the AFC because I
took the best quarterback in every division. I think the
AFC it was almost like during the Peyton Manning Brady years.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
I got two right. So in the.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
AFC, my predictions are Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, C. J.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Stroud.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
That feels like an easy one. I am going Year
two of Harbaugh has always been the year at Pops.
By the way, I think Vrabel's excellent, Burrow and Mahomes
make the playoffs. Let's pick apart my AFC playoff prediction.
Anything you don't.

Speaker 13 (44:59):
Like, listen, I love the Patriots, but that you're asking
a lot.

Speaker 10 (45:03):
I think you're asking a lot there.

Speaker 13 (45:05):
I think the Bengals were very, very close to being
a playoff team, So I'm down with you.

Speaker 10 (45:09):
I can get behind that one.

Speaker 13 (45:11):
But I'd be surprised to see the Patriots over the
Dolphins right there. No one's a bigger Mike Rabel fan
than me. I love Drake May. I think they were
a year away though, and I think they might actually
be okay with that. But but I think Miami I
would I would slide Miami Miami in there. And that
Texans division, that's the other one, you know. I just

(45:31):
I don't know that could go any either way. I
played in that division for multiple teams, and I wouldn't
be surprised to see Indianapolis be a lot better uh
this year, if they can get the quarterback play a
little bit better. Other than that, I like your I
like your your your list here, and I want to
be surprised if this was the year that Lamar Jackson
and the Ravens make it to the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Okay, we go to the NFC, which was harder for me,
especially the NFC North. Listen again, I'm going to go
with Jalen Hurts, Jared Goff, Baker Mayfield, Matt Stafford with
a great defense. I'm kind of rolling the dice on Seattle.
I do think their roster and coach are excellent. I
love their GM. I thought two years in a row
they've nailed the draft. You're laughing, and I bet you're

(46:12):
laughing at my Bears, right.

Speaker 10 (46:15):
Can you be a Homer and you're not even in
Chicago yet? I mean, what the heck man?

Speaker 13 (46:21):
I mean either, you love o line play, I mean,
because they've done a great job of atulstring the I
love what Ryan Poles, I love what they're doing. But no,
a wild card team. No, listen, you said it right
you you met last time. You made the picks based
on the quarterbacks. It's always good quarterback play in the playoffs.
I mean, it's pretty much that's the deal. Go back
to last year. I would think the Steelers may maybe

(46:43):
the exception because they didn't have great quarterback play at
the end of the year, but they had good quarterback
play during this season, and I just I think that's
a huge question mark. I think that's a gamble. I'm
calling you out as a homer there. Sorry, Uh, that's
those are the facts. I want to sleep on the Vikings.
You know, it's a huge unknown, right, But I guess
I don't know. I think the Vikings have so.

Speaker 10 (47:05):
Much confidence that it's giving me confidence.

Speaker 13 (47:08):
And you know, like you just said about coming we
were talking about the Super Bowl coming back down the mountain.
That NFC East, there's always a new winner. It feels like,
don't count out the Washington Commanders as a team that
can win that division. And I'm probably just saying that
because I love their quarterback so much, and now I'm
probably biased, but I would, I would kind of.

Speaker 10 (47:28):
I would say all that.

Speaker 13 (47:29):
And then the other team you don't have in there
that usually it's hard to go worse to first, but
I think San Francisco could be in that. In that
NFC West, I think that's anybody's division as well.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Finally, I want to wrap it up so the staff's
given me crap I said. When Derek Carr came into
the league and made four Pro Bowls with the dysfunctional Raiders,
I'm like, this guy can play. I watched them at
Fresno State. He was third in MVP voting early in
his career. But I here's where I thought he had
a chance to be a Philip Rivers, where we be
giving some Hall of Fame votes at the end. But

(48:00):
the difference is Philip Rivers had more function around him.
And I look at Derek Carr and we all know
that rookies need the right landing spot.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
I mean, bo Nick's Sean Payton.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
It probably doesn't look like that if he goes to
Matt Eberflus, not picking on him, but a defensive coach.
I always thought Derek Carr and then he went with
Dennis Allen, and I'm like, I'm gonna be wrong on this.
It just didn't work. Do you think Derek Carr like
a Sam Darnold had he gone to a great, functional
offensive coach. Am I overstating it? Or is he a classic?

(48:32):
He never got a fair shot in this league?

Speaker 13 (48:36):
No, Listen, I think his teammates would say he's a
Hall of Fame teammate.

Speaker 10 (48:40):
And I think he was. I think he was cooking
with some of the offensive coaches that he had.

Speaker 12 (48:45):
You know, I don't know.

Speaker 13 (48:47):
I have the years in front of me, but I
feel like the John Gruden kind of that offense.

Speaker 10 (48:51):
That he was in.

Speaker 13 (48:52):
Listen, when I think of Derek Carr, I think of
one thing.

Speaker 10 (48:55):
It just comes. I can't get it out of my head.
How he left the Raiders. It bothered me.

Speaker 13 (49:00):
It bothered me big time, Like he got benched and
then they told him don't don't even come to the building.
And the coaching staff that did that. It bothered me
because in my mind, I was like, Derek Carr is
going to be a Raider way longer than you're going
to be a Raider, And that bothered me. And I
really I feel like I watched him grow up as
a leader. I saw the way he handled when there
was the tragedy with the wide receiver who ended up

(49:21):
going to jail. He handled the terrible situation with the
head coach, you know, all these kinds of things, Like
I just you know, it's unfortunate. Sometimes your body can't
do for you what your brain and your heart want
to do. And it sounds like that's a similar case
for him. But I enjoyed watching him play, and I
was never teammates with him. I don't know him, but

(49:42):
I think when I hear his teammates talk about him,
I understand what kind of teammate he was.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Matt hassel Beck, great seeing you on a Monday, my
friend as always.

Speaker 13 (49:50):
All Right, smile more, Kyle Collin onmile More.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
I'm heading to the Midwest. I feel just great. Okay,
So I'm a bit of a Chicago homer. Hey, I
said I was hoping Cooper Flag went to Houston or
San Antonio, because I do think that changes. Can you
imagine tonight? I'm just telling you, if San Antonio wins
the lottery, they're gonna have the back to back rookie,
a point guard, a big They now a wing.

Speaker 5 (50:14):
They've won enough of these damn things. They don't need
another one. You got Wendy, you got David Robinson, you
got Tim Duncan. What why would we give you imagine
another one?

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Can you imagine being OKC that you've done a brilliant job.
Sam Presty has done a brilliant job. You found Harden
and you got kd in Westbrook, and you get to
a final.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
And you never win it.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
And now staf sold and le Bron's old, and you
are poised and the Spurs get Wemby in one draft,
Castling the next, and Cooper Flag in the next, and
you never win a title. I mean they have been
Oklahoma City has been so well run and so smartly constructed.
If you're an OKC fan, it doesn't matter if Houston

(50:57):
wins it. We don't trust Houston necessarily. If san Antonio
wins this hit. And by the way, I've always said,
san Antonio no state tax, they'll go get some good
free agents. If san Antonio hill, They've gotten so many
free agents, so many people want to move to San Antonio.

Speaker 5 (51:13):
Very nice, beautiful you that's beautiful.

Speaker 7 (51:16):
Whatit?

Speaker 5 (51:17):
What's next for you?

Speaker 4 (51:17):
Texas a You're gonna set up stout by Joe Rogan
in Austin.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
What's going on? Like the very good life?

Speaker 5 (51:22):
San Antonio does not need any more number one fix.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
You know what does the nation's capital, which is under fire,
Gross Washington.

Speaker 5 (51:29):
You know I watched I.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Watched the documentary. I'm not even gonna get into it,
how frustrating it was to watch. I watched a documentary.
It's called Shooting Guards. It's the Gilbert Arena story with
his teammates. Oh, it's it's It's unbelievable that an organization
would be so dysfunctional that they would allow that to happen.
There's like thirteen warning signs and the organization couldn't figure

(51:54):
it out.

Speaker 5 (51:54):
Well, that's what I cannot.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
I cannot root for the Wizards.

Speaker 5 (51:56):
Sometimes you turn.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
An eye when you got a superstar Arenas, what hey,
you want a funds act?

Speaker 1 (52:01):
You know?

Speaker 4 (52:01):
I like to wear NBA jerseys just for fun. The
first jersey I bought ever was Gilbert.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
Arenas when he was in Washington and I was.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
I would wear it around the New York City subways
going to Mensley games. If you'd be like, Wizards, what
are your Wizards? It was a great talking point. I
love Gilbert Arenas, man, that guy was really good. And
then the gun in City.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
It's a fascinating, but it was impossible to watch that
and root for the Wizards just I mean, what they
allowed on the team plane and in the locker room
was maddening. I don't even listen. It's obviously you have
to be culpable if you're a player. They made bad decisions,
but sometimes parents slash. That's the thing about the NBA.

(52:41):
These kids come into the NBA eighteen nineteen years old.
I mean they grow up in Louisiana, then they go
to New York or LA. Those kids need help, They
need guidance, they need support. If eighteen years old, you
would have shipped me off to play basketball in New
Orleans if I had bad guidance.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
Don't forget the million of dollars dripping out of your pockets. Okay, Yeah,
some Quame Brown stories floating around about how Michael Jordan
treated him after they took him number one overall. Go
read that about Michael Jordan, guy who punched his teammate
in name. Go see how he treated Kwame Brown in DC.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
I killed the guy.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
I cannot root for Charlotte or the Wizards. I can
root for the Pelicans a little because they've done some
smart thing. Oh really, what name one? Brandon Anthony Davis?
The Brandon Ingram thing wasn't bad. You got some players.
I can root for the Pelican I can root for
almost everybody on this list.

Speaker 5 (53:29):
What's wrong with the Hornets?

Speaker 4 (53:30):
Do you not remember the Hive and Alonzo Mourning Eloy Dawnson.
I don't those starter Jackets, Yeah, because they were super
cool when I was a kid.

Speaker 5 (53:38):
Remember the starter jacket, the teal and purple or whatever.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
I don't nobody cool wore them.

Speaker 4 (53:44):
Maybe not in Portland wherever you come on, those things
were the jam Trust me, they were awesome for like
eight minutes in the nineties, and.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
So that therefore you're rooting for that my childhood, you know,
come on, you need.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Some therapy to get on the couch.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I don't think your child was as redeemable as you
keep telling me.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
It's The Herd.

Speaker 6 (54:08):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern, non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Kind of a must watch if you're a sportscaster, a
shooting guards. It's the Javaris Critinton story who was initially
a Laker ye, and then it's Gilbert Listen, players are
culpable for their own mistakes. You cannot root for the
Wizards as an organization after watching that.

Speaker 14 (54:34):
I was so it is so ridigious, the same organization
any game access.

Speaker 8 (54:40):
I mean, they just are so.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
What was allowed.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
It's it's fascinating, like on planes, It's happened on planes. Okay.
Rachel Nichols joining us, okay, so tonight. One of my
favorite non game moments of the year is the NBA
Draft law. A couple of years ago we had Wemby.
This happens about every fourth year. We get a Lebron

(55:06):
or we get a Wemby, so Cooper Flag who is
only eighteen. But you know the comp and I think
it's an accurate one is you're getting Jason Tatum but
a little more aggressive like Kyle Play. So Utah has
acknowledged they would consider Danny Inge if they won moving
Cooper Flag. I would not, but they are and Danny

(55:28):
Ainge is shrewd.

Speaker 14 (55:29):
Danny Aheer said he would trade his own grandmother, so
I assume he would trade Cooper Flag.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
So here's my Utah wins it. Are they the front
runner to land yan Us?

Speaker 14 (55:40):
So if I'm Milwaukee, I am not doing a straight
up trade for Cooper Flag and Yannis right because the
Milwaukee Bucks don't have a first round draft pick till
twenty thirty one, that is six years from.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Now, don't control any of their first for five years.

Speaker 14 (55:55):
If you get a Cooper Flag or some other really
outrageous young talent but no picks including that, if it's
a straight up trade, that's no good for you because
you won't have young talent to put around him. You've
got older guys on bad contracts. By the way, you
can become an unrestricted free agent in the NBA after
seven years and six years is when they would get
their first first round draft picks, so he'd be out

(56:17):
of there.

Speaker 8 (56:17):
So that's not worth it.

Speaker 14 (56:18):
If you talk and put together a package with Cooper
Flag with some other young talent with draft picks that
interest the Milwaukee Bucks, sure they'll have a conversation for sure.
The other one to watch with the draft lottery is
Houston because Houston has been a front runner for whoever
the best free agent on the market is.

Speaker 13 (56:36):
Right.

Speaker 14 (56:36):
We've talked about Kevin Durant, We've talked about Devin Booker,
we've talked about Jannis. Trump's them all right, So if
Jannis does become available, the advantages you're trading him to
the West, which is great, right, And the Malwaukee Bucks
have learned their lesson with Drew Holliday. You do not
want the guy you just traded in your own conference. Right,
They've got young talent that can come and really good

(56:58):
young talent that can come to Milwaukee, and they have
all kinds of draft picks, and certainly if with the
Phoenix pick, which they're in the lottery for tonight, they
luck out with Cooper Flaggerant, even anyone in really the
top three or four, because these are great players, they
then become even more.

Speaker 8 (57:17):
Of a front, right.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
I said, the most fascinating part is this, so we
know Kyle Shanahan has had great teams, arguably for about
a four year stretch, the best roster, no trophy, great
Sacramento King Trades teams way back when no trophy. So
my take is, Giannis, you got a trophy twelve years.

(57:38):
Great fun, here's the team to keep your eye on.
So we think Sam Presty is brilliant. They had Westbrook,
k D and Harden. They now have Home Greun SGA
and an unbelievable roster. Yet, if San Antonio wins the
lottery tonight, Wemby this year's rookie of the Year, the

(57:59):
point guard from Yukon, Stephen Castle and Cooper Flag. Yeah,
and my take is what a nightmare for okc oh I.

Speaker 14 (58:09):
Mean, look, if Oklahoma City or the Spurs win this
draft lottery, can you imagine in Oklahoma City obviously threw
their other picks because their own pick is not going
to be in the lottery.

Speaker 8 (58:22):
But it's just crazy to me have.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
The best rookie three straight years.

Speaker 8 (58:29):
Yeah, it's crazy to me.

Speaker 14 (58:30):
And by the way, the thunder to your point, they
have all these picks, they if they want to, are
going to be a contender for Yannis because the picks
that they have aren't just their own picks.

Speaker 8 (58:42):
They've grabbed picks from all around the league.

Speaker 14 (58:44):
So you're really not betting against Yannis to fail if
you're making that trade near Milwaukee. Because they've got this pick,
they've got this team's pick, they've got that team's pick.

Speaker 8 (58:53):
You don't have to worry about it.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
You know. I said this with the Warriors. They're not
there yet, but Steph will be thirty eight next year.
They made the move for Butler because they wanted to
squeeze every last win out of Steph. Kind of their
Jeter untradable player, their l Way. Yeah, and there's very
few of those, but Jeter Lway kind of feel like Steph,

(59:17):
ye can't trade him. And so I'm sitting there thinking,
you don't want the Kobe Tour the last three years
which was unserious basketball. You don't want to be the
Bucks where you grab, grab, grab, and you wake up
and you're like, we're a first round exit team. I
look at the Warriors. They don't have their GPS system.
When Steph doesn't play and he's thirty eight, he's running
a mile and a three quarters to two miles every

(59:40):
big game. Oksee Houston, all these San Antonio. You look
up and you go, guys, we're gonna bring this back.
Couldn't I argue Cominga doesn't work with Steph If they
get extinguished here very quickly by Minnesota. My guess was, Steph,
they will. What do you do going forward? Great coach

(01:00:04):
Steph in great culture is not going forward? You're at
best fourth in the West.

Speaker 14 (01:00:10):
Well, if there is a silver lining to the Steph
Curry injury, which by the way, obviously the Warriors would
rather not have, it's that Jonathan Kaminga has gotten to
play more and show what value he brings, because really
the issue is it's not that he can't play with Steph.
It's that he can't play with Steph and Jimmy. There's
not room for him when there's those two other guys
are on the floor. Now that Steff's off the floor,

(01:00:32):
it's him and Jimmy and they can play well together.
And also Kuminga had a great game, right even in
the loss. So the silver lining if they do lose
this series and Steph can't come back, is now you
have a much more tradable asset in Jonathan Kuminga than
you did even a week and a half ago, right,
because in the first round it was like, Eh, he's
not even good enough to make the rotation, right, what

(01:00:53):
kind of asset is he?

Speaker 8 (01:00:54):
Nobody's gonna want him.

Speaker 14 (01:00:55):
Now everyone's like, oh, okay, it really was just scheme,
and therefore he's an asset. I don't think either way
this is going to be similar to the Kobe situation
or the Yannest situation because on both of those teams
you really had one elite guy. Right on this team,
you have Steph, you have Draymond, you have Jimmy. Now
they're all aging, I get that, but those are all

(01:01:17):
kinds of players. They can make a difference in the
game the way the guys on Kobe's team couldn't, the
way the guys on Nanisis team can't. This year, and
I don't know when Steph heard that they were making
the Jimmy trade.

Speaker 8 (01:01:29):
His quote to Draymond was, this is it. This is
our last ride.

Speaker 14 (01:01:34):
And I think they all know it and they believe it,
and they think that with this group they can really
make an impact and maybe get the Finals again. And
by the way, it looked like it, you know, toward
the end of the season, in the early.

Speaker 8 (01:01:45):
In the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
So the Celtics season may very well come down to
tonight the way they won and blowout fashion. Generally speaking,
the zigzag theory on the road, New York will be
ready to roll tonight. It's been a question Boston from
Danny Ains to Brad Stevens. They are proactive, not reactive,

(01:02:09):
and they're not moving Tatum. But if they lose to
the Knicks, there is a sense that they can look
up and go, listen, we don't want to be Milwaukee.
In Denver, We've got Tatum, We've got new owners may
want to shed. I mean, their salary now is like
five hundred million if they just signed their first round pick.
I mean, Rachel to me, if the Knicks win tonight,

(01:02:32):
and I think it's a three or four point game,
Jamack can find the spread on that, I think I
think they're going to make an aggressive move. Could they
not make a Yannis package?

Speaker 14 (01:02:43):
I'm not sure they could with their picks another situation.
And again, if I am the Bucks, I would not
trade him with in the conference Again, Drew Holliday, By
the way, can you imagine what the Celtics? Can you
imagine if they also gave him Jannis? Oh here, he's
Joannis Andrew. I don't do that happening. However, I do think, Look,
this is a half a billion dollar pay roll with

(01:03:04):
all of the luxury tax and second Apron and eighth
Apron and all of that, that the Celtics are going
to have to play under new ownership to your point,
And look, if they go back and win another finals
and I still think they're the favorite, even down to
one in this series, it's going to be hard to break.

Speaker 8 (01:03:19):
That team up.

Speaker 14 (01:03:19):
Of course, two titles in a row, well, I think
you've got to pay those guys and just bite the
bullet and try to keep winning. But if it's a
second round exit, it kind of gives you an excuse,
if your ownership or if you're the front office, to say, well, clearly,
this isn't.

Speaker 8 (01:03:34):
Quite working the way it was before.

Speaker 14 (01:03:36):
Now we can, you know, kind of mess with the
roster a little bit and certainly cut payroll, and.

Speaker 8 (01:03:41):
We'll just have to see if that happens.

Speaker 14 (01:03:43):
I still think the Celtics are going to come out
of this series, and I think they have a really
good chance.

Speaker 8 (01:03:48):
To win the title. That's no disrespect to New York.

Speaker 14 (01:03:50):
I mean, I think it would be great for the
league to have the New York Knicks advance because it
has been a very long time and I just think
thet the garden we've seen it, I mean, it's just incredible, totally,
and unlike some other New York's Knicks teams or big
market teams where people around the country, you know, they
hate the Yankees that kind of thing, this Knicks team

(01:04:11):
is so scrappy and fun and young.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Perfect for New York.

Speaker 8 (01:04:15):
A lot of people.

Speaker 14 (01:04:16):
Around the country who would say hate the Yankees will
still really get behind and like watching this New York
Knicks team. So if they win, and I agree with you,
tonight is just pivotal. I mean, I think it's a
must win for the Knicks certainly, right who knows, but
the Celtics point differential throughout the season, they were sixteen
points ahead on average, and the games they played the

(01:04:38):
next not only did they win four to nothing in
this season series, they won by an average of sixteen points,
and in each of these games they've been up to
twenty points.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
No, we've talked about this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
The nnba's willingness to swallow the whistle and let games
be physical has absolutely benefited the next og.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Body type in the coality.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
The NBA is allowing less skilled teams to body up
and push you around. That's why I thought Denver would
give okay See some problems because they're big veterans physical.
So Yo Kitch is great. They have no bench, and
you know, I think a lot of people look at Denver.
I do and certainly thought three years ago, could they

(01:05:18):
be the Spurs? It's he their duncan. But then they
didn't keep people they you know, you look at the
Michael Porter contract. Now they paid one too many people
and Yo Kitch looks gassed.

Speaker 8 (01:05:33):
Oh he looks exhausted.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
It's this. Didn't they draft a big and he got hurt.

Speaker 14 (01:05:39):
Look the thing with Yo Kitch is he had to
push them through the end of the season. Remember the
sixty point games that this that that just to keep
them out of the plate, right, there was such a
scramble for seating in the West. He had to give
it his all every night and carry this team. Now,
they played I think seven games in the last thirteen days.

Speaker 8 (01:05:59):
I mean, that is asking too much of him. Especially.

Speaker 14 (01:06:02):
I know they're used to playing at altitude. It's their altitude,
but it's still altitude great and I just think that
the Thunder are deeper certainly. I mean, they won that
game yesterday because of their bench. And they're the youngest
team in the NBA. Let's not forget that. If you
look at teams across the league and you say, okay,
on one day's rest, when there's only one.

Speaker 8 (01:06:24):
Day between games, who is the best?

Speaker 14 (01:06:27):
Not only are the Thunder the best, they're the best
by about seventeen points.

Speaker 8 (01:06:32):
I mean, it's crazy.

Speaker 14 (01:06:33):
Where the Nuggets when they have one day of rest,
they're better than their opponents by about three points. So
you just look at this schedule, you look at what
Yokich has had to do. This is the problem with
having a rotation that's only six guys and by the way,
the sixth guy is Russell Westbrook. You know, I keep
saying to you, it's a box of chocolates with rest.
You never know what you're gonna get. Well, yesterday was

(01:06:54):
like when you get one of those like gross orange
cream chocolates or something like them.

Speaker 8 (01:06:58):
Not good, not good.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
So let's put up the NBA Draft lottery. Tonight, I said,
I'm kind of rooting just for historical relevance for San
Antonio to win it. Yep, Wemby, why do I keep
forgetting their point guard Stephen Castle. Castle's great Stephen Castle
and then get Cooper Flagg. Yeah, I think that's unprecedented

(01:07:21):
to get the best player out of three straight classes,
So that's fascinating. I'm also rooting for Utah because I
think having spent a lot of time there, great facility,
great GM, super smart owner, great economy, they fill it.
It's almost collegiate feeling.

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
I think that'd be.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Great if he was there. When you look at this,
is there something that intrigues you tonight?

Speaker 14 (01:07:42):
Well, look, I'm from Washington, DC, right, and I can
tell you that the Wizards, Slash Bullets, slash whatever have
not made it to the third round of the playoffs,
not not won a title or made it to the finals.

Speaker 8 (01:07:54):
They have not made it to the third round.

Speaker 14 (01:07:55):
Of the playoffs for forty six years, so to me,
obviously this is colored by me being a native, but
I think that would be a great fit for him
for a lot of reasons. It's an international city. If
you look at the sort of teams, look at the
cities that on top of the lottery, Washington, d c.
Certainly is the most sort of cosmopolitan of a lot

(01:08:16):
of those places. The fit with the Wizard's young players
that they've been tearing down and doing this rebuild would actually.

Speaker 8 (01:08:23):
Be excellent and you would see him making an impact
right away.

Speaker 14 (01:08:27):
And I just think that when you talk about East
versus West, and you talk about, yes, the Spurs by
the way they've gotten lucky in the draft lottery before,
thank you Tim Duncan.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
That would great.

Speaker 14 (01:08:38):
I mean, all of these big players, Kevin Durant, all
of the big players, even Zion Williamson. Right since the
Lebron draft, I can't think of a player who was
sort of a surefire, we know he's going to be
a success in the NBA that hasn't gone west. So
just for balance, I think it would be nice to
have an Eastern Conference team.

Speaker 8 (01:08:57):
Win the lottery tonight and again for my hometown team.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
Have you watched that documentary though, I have.

Speaker 14 (01:09:03):
Look, I was there for it, and I'm very you know,
I've covered Guild for a long time and know him
very well.

Speaker 8 (01:09:09):
I get it.

Speaker 14 (01:09:10):
But it's just it's a different team now, all right.
I'm just saying they're hard to root for after watching that.

Speaker 8 (01:09:15):
I mean, there was by the way, go back.

Speaker 14 (01:09:17):
There's a lot of franchises around the NBA that were
permitting a lot of things.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Oh I know back in the day. It's incredible that the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
Team, the league, they were trying to hide all of
it from the media.

Speaker 14 (01:09:32):
Look the Detroit Pistons at the height of their powers,
right when they were in Eastern Conference Finals after Eastern
Conference Finals, after Eastern Conference Finals.

Speaker 8 (01:09:38):
I used to cover that team.

Speaker 14 (01:09:39):
Pretty regularly, and I'd walk in the same door at
the Price facility every day and suddenly there was a
sign that says no weapons allowed in this building. And
it happened overnight. And I just said to the security guard,
before there's a sign, there's usually a problem. He's like, oh, yeah,
there was a problem. So it happened in a lot
of faces at that time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Wow, Rachel Nichols, great scene, as always, great to see
you guys,