May 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Colin wishes Jayson Tatum a speedy recovery from the injury he suffered late vs the Knicks but points out Jalen Brunson and New York had the game firmly in control to take a commanding 3-1 lead. Colin also pushes back against the ridiculous narrative that the NBA Lottery is "fixed" after conspiracy theorist fans fueled online rumors when the Mavericks won the number 1 overall pick despite only have a 1.8% chance. Plus, 5-time National Champion and former Duke head coach Mike Krzyzewski joins the show to tell Colin what type of prospect Cooper Flagg is and how to navigate today's era college athletics featuring NIL
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Here we go on a Tuesday. Man, there is a
lot happening in Sports Live. It's the Herd wherever you
may be and however it may be listening. Thanks for
making us part of your day. Well, there was perceived
controversy that the New York Knicks look like the real deal.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
The Warriors are done.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
NFL schedule release coach k Mike Krzyzewski stops by Nick
Wright in an hour from now stop by.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Wild night.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
But so many different storylines, just a completely why in
the NBA.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Yeah, you could say that Colin conspiracy theorists running wild.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
It's a great night.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Date of your conspiracy gifts.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Well, several minutes before that awful injury to Jason Tatum,
several minutes before you could see it, I could see it.
I think people in Boston could see it.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
The Knicks.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Are gonna win this series. They're the better team, they're
better coached, they're more relentless. The home crowd clearly elevates
this team. They're dominating the boards. Their bigs are playing better,
They're passing better, less standing around, better decision making more
points in the paint. Tibbs took the Celtics head coach
(01:44):
Joe Missoula to the cleaners. The Celtics in the second
half it was ISOs stand around basketball coach? Pull some levers?
Do something? What happened to Peyton Pritchard. Isn't he good?
Why he only played twenty minutes? It was just hard
to watch Missoula coaches like he's got a checklist. That's
not That's not what NBA playoff basketball is about. It's
(02:08):
about pulling levers. You can see us Steve Kerr do
it though he's out manned. You really see a Chris
Finch doing it for years, Eric Spolstra. Joe Missoula has
got like one club in his bag. When the three point.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Shots don't fall, he's out of luck.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But this series really has not been about the Celtics
it's been about New York. If you didn't know better,
and you just turned into that thing last night, you
would think the world champion New York Knicks were defending
their title. Their ability to execute in crunch time, everybody's
touching the ball, the shot making from Kat Brunson, og bridges,
(02:48):
the toughness coming back multiple games, all of them from
twenty points down. Their leader, Jalen Brunson, Let's just be honest.
He is like the new Jerry West. He is mister
Krott Clotte Tatum played great before the injury.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
It was a great game.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
But in terms of clutch, is there any small player
in this league you trust more with the ball than
Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
I'm including staff. I know he's.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Undersized, I know he's a second rounder. I know he's
not a premier athlete, but man, he finds good shots.
He has been, and I've said this for the last
two years, the best quarterback New York has.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
His decision making. You can tell he's a.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Smart guy that went to Villanova, Dad played in the league.
Fearless player, totally trustworthy. But again, it's not just that
New York's winning, it's how they're winning New York is
making Boston look fragmented, disorganized, poorly coached, confused and passive.
(03:56):
If you'd never watch basketball and you tune into that
game and I say, find the champion, it looks like
the Knicks. They've got a swagger, a confidence, shot making
and attitude, even before the Tatum injury, which was obviously awful.
And he We're not going to speculate, but that looked
really bad. We'll find out more today an MRI New York.
(04:16):
It's only three to one Nicks. It felt like it
was over five minutes before the Tatum injury. The confidence,
the shot and making. I'm sitting here watching everybody on
that team depending on nobody great ball movement. Josh Harten
didn't need a bunch of points. He touch it, get
it into somebody who's hot. Here's Brunson after.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I think it was a sense of urgency, desperation, just
knowing that we have a great opportunity. I were playing
a really good team and I don't even think we're
playing our best basketball yet. We have a team who's
fairly new this year, and we still have a long
(04:59):
way to go to be the best thing we can be.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
It is these windows close fast. I was talking to
a friend last night in the podcast, and I said,
remember when the Seahawks were great and then they won
a Super Bowl, blew out Peyton Manning. They go to
another one, should win it. Russell Wilson throws a pick.
People thought Marshawn Lynch should have gotten the handoff. They
lose close to Brady and the Patriots. It screws with
(05:23):
the culture in the locker room. There's doubt, there's finger pointing.
Never the same franchise good but never great again. And
with Boston the injury, five hundred million dollar bankroll, needed
new owners. They're getting old. What happened to poorzingis?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I know the West has better teams, younger teams, But
when I watched the Knicks all year long, I've thought,
you know, they've got to solve this. They they need
another shot maker. I'm watching this series and I'm like,
they maybe they need to tweak a more dependable big,
but I don't think they need much, at least to
(05:59):
win the East. All right, Let's talk Golden State. Golden
State's in trouble, not just this year, but for the
foreseeable future. They brought in Jimmy Butler, as we talked
about yesterday, to squeeze every last bit of juice out
of staff and Steve Kerr again excellent coach, but just
(06:22):
like the Lakers series where old Lebron, Luca and Austin
Reeves kind of felt outmanned that Minnesota was getting more
out of more players. I'm watching the Timberwolves. That's the
opposite of the Celtics. That team doesn't have As this
team doesn't have as much talent. They're pulling every lever.
(06:42):
I mean, Julius Randall, he's a legitimate too. He was
never a good playoff guy. He's been excellent thirty one
last night, fifty two percent from the field. His assist
playmaking has been fantastic. He's finally a dependable playoff guy.
And Edwards unrefined at times. Anybody notice in the series
he averages seven points in the first half, twenty in
(07:04):
the second. Something the staff is doing and tweaking is
changing the way he plays in every game in the
second half. It's remarkable. This is an odd, disparate roster
full of guys that shouldn't fit. Seven foot one Rudy Gobert,
who can't really shoot undrafted Naz Reid, who's a good athlete,
but what else. Julius Randall, who's a tweeter and an
(07:27):
emerging superstar who sometimes can't find his shot. It's just
a bunch of guys who we've never trusted in the playoffs,
and now for the second straight.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Year, we do.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I mean Lebron, Luca and Austin Reeves look completely outclassed.
A little bit of Steph Butler and Draymond similarly, it
doesn't feel like they're close. And this was the clear
value of coaching on display. You look at this Minnesota roster,
you could argue there's five or six better rosters. Cleveland's
roster is better. Okay, sees is obviously better. I could
(08:02):
argue Golden State when Steph is healthy healthy, is close.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
But it's it's they have.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Transformed all these different pieces that shouldn't necessarily fit. Julius
Randall didn't really fit early in the season. Now at
the end of the season, what a great, dependable number two.
We've never said that about Julius Randall. And it was
a halftime speech by a newly formed leader and Edwards
(08:31):
that changed the game.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I told him we only got two wins.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
I've never seen a series and two one, So I
told him, you know, we got to get two more wins.
And right now we're playing like we already got four wins,
Like we're playing like they're gonna lay down, and knowing
his team, knowing their head coach, they're never going to
lay down.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
So we had we had to figure.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
It out, man, because if we would have kept playing
like that, we would have lost the night.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So during the Dynasty, in the Great Run by Steve Kerr,
he has always been known the Warriors have had some
of the great third quarters. Ever a little tweak add
this subtract that change that tweak that the Warriors would
take close games and come out with an eighteen to
four run and end it. That's what Minnesota has been doing.
(09:15):
Especially Aunt Edwards, he is a totally different player. First
couple of games in this series, shots didn't fall, couldn't
get the close ones to go either. He's been in
this series transformed. That is, along with Aunt, Randall, Gobert,
nas Reed and the rest that is coaching on display.
(09:36):
So Jmac, the listen. I don't care what people say
about market size. The defending champs are in big trouble
Minnesota is going to beat the most popular player, Steph Curry.
Lakers have already been extinguished. Okase, he's a small market,
but nonetheless, Americans are absolutely sure.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The was rigged.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Well Collin, first of all, I don't know that the
Timberwolves are beating Steph Curry since he's barely played in
the series. They're beating a Warriors team which doesn't look like,
I mean anything resembling a playoff team without Curry. It
is amazing how far they've fallen without a superstar. Yeah,
I mean it's it's I think Boston will show up
the next game without Tatum.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yes, the Warriors can't do anything without Curry.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, I mean he is their GPS. They're kind of
a directionless offense. He's the you know, we've said this,
there are certain players Lebron in his prime and Steph
Curry where they're kind of the ecosystem. Like the offense
goes through them. It looks different, the pacing is different,
the ball movements. That's why Kaminga is flourishing without staff,
(10:45):
and then the offense totally changes with staff and he
just looks lost. So there are the good news for
Golden state is they're going to be able to move Kaminga,
who looks like a twenty game, twenty point a game
guy against a very good defensive team. So Kaminga his
value shot up. That's the only thing if you're the Warriors.
Because I don't think Curry's gonna play he acknowledged yesterday,
(11:05):
is what's the point of risking it? Hamstring, as you've noted,
is a rest injury. But Cominga's play has created a market.
Speaker 7 (11:13):
It has.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I just the whole the way the draft went down
last night, The draft lottery, this Yannis stuff is going
absolutely volcanic. There's so many teams potentially involved, plus the
Tatum injury, Colin. I had thought Boston could be a
landing spot for you. Honest, I don't know if that's
the case anymore. Due to this injury to Tatum, He's
gonna be out until at least the All Star break,
(11:35):
possibly longer.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, next year stinks. Well, we'll talk that draft lottery.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in neone Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, you're seeing it all over America. A lack of
trust in institutions. It could be the FBI, the CIA,
It could be the media.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
It could be the White House.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
The default explanation in America in twenty twenty five, when
you are ticked off or you can't explain something or
something doesn't go your way. It could be officiating. It
could be an election. It could be the draft lottery.
Is it's rigged? Yeah, I've got video of Dallas's draft
room last night. Draft lottery room. You're gonna get twelve
guys to act like this for thirty seconds. There aren't
(12:21):
this many good actors in Hollywood that would do that.
Did they rig it for Creuddy Atlanta last year? That
was also a playing team like the MAVs. Did they
rig it for the New York Islanders like the Mavericks
had a very small percentage to win.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, it's fixed.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
It is fixed, fixed so that the worst tanking teams
don't win the lottery.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yes, it is fixed.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Essentially, the draft lottery now is like the local raffle
at your tavern where you got fifteen twenty people. It's
a raffle, and sometimes the same guy wins two out.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Of four raffles. That's the way it is.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
By the way, when Zion Williamson out of Huge and
do condunking machine was available and the Knicks had the
number one pick, Yeah, they fixed it so the Pelicans
would get it, or Atlanta last year. By the way,
if you're going to fix it, give Chicago or Philadelphia
Cooper flag, not football crazy Dallas. The NBA has flattened
(13:19):
the lottery. Are odds essentially a raffle, a scratch off ticket?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
What's that mean?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
No team with the worst record has won it since
they did it. The NBA changed the rules to create this.
Do you really think Wemby? They would say, let's say
where can we put Wemby? Let's put him in San Antonio. Yeah,
the last time san Antonio had a dynasty, it killed
the TV ratings for a decade. You would not pick
san Antonio, believe me. In fact, some of you aren't
(13:48):
very good at math. The three teams with the best
odds to win last night, the odds were fourteen percent.
That's a raffle. Those are the best odds. If you
add the three teams with the best odds together, it
still doesn't reach fifty percent. And what's happened the last
(14:08):
several years the best odds has finished fifth, and that
happened again last night.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Utah.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
It is a raffle. They flattened the odds. You would
not have put Wemby in San Antonio. You would not
have put Zion with the Pelicans. The Pelicans have won
this thing multiple times. Well, Lebron left and they gave
Cleveland Andrew Wiggins. It doesn't matter if Lebron's coming or going.
Nobody in any league office is rooting for Cleveland to
(14:35):
get the best players.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So it's just like, this.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Is the way it worked. This is what the NBA wanted.
The NBA wanted what you're seeing with the CBA. There
are no more dynasties. That's what Adams Olver wanted. And
with this, I mean the crazy thing San Antonio almost won,
which is nuts, but it should be noted they also
draft and develop well. For the third year in a row,
(15:01):
the team with the worst actual record did not win
this thing. And I think Cooper Flag in Dallas is great.
I think I think he's exactly what they needed. But
he's also exactly what every team in the league. The
Lakers could use him. The Knicks are a good team.
They could use him. He's Jason Tatum. That's what he is.
(15:21):
He's Jason Tatum, and he's got twelve thirteen years potentially
a prime coming into the league.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
So just listen.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I understand nobody trusts institutions. I get it. It's happening
all over the land, right it's FBI, CIA vaccines.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Everybody on the internet's an expert. That's fight.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Doesn't bother me. I'm not going to try to convince
you otherwise. I'm just telling you what I see, which
is the NBA. Adam Silver said, you know what, I'm
gonna be friendlier to the players than David Stern. I'm
gonna get out of the dynasty business, and we're gonna
flatten these odds because tanking is really bad. Tanking's really
bad for the NBA for a lot of reasons. One
of the reasons it's really bad is March. College basketball
(16:02):
is super competitive with the tournament, and March is the
time in the NBA that teams tank. So you watch
a college game with all that energy and then turn
to an NBA game and it's like, you know, the
wizard's tanking, and Adam Silver's like, this is a bad
six week look.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
For our league.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So they got seventy six billion dollars for eleven years. Okay, Now,
whether NBC can make that work financially, that's up to NBC.
But if you want to believe tanking and rig go
for it. I'm just saying Wemby wouldn't have been picked
in San Antonio and Zion wouldn't go to the Pelicans
because the Knicks had the number one pick. By the way, Utah,
(16:41):
this is what keeps happening. Best odds only fourteen percent.
Once again, best odds get the fifth pick. That's how
raffles work. I've had raffles. I've never won a raffle.
I've bought thirty tickets to a raffle with twelve people.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I've never won a raffle.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I have been at raffles, had one hundred bucks in
my pocket and bought tickets for the whole family and
not want to raffle. I don't think it's rigged. I
think that's how scratch off games and raffles work. We're
not going to speculate on Jason Tatum. He was having
a great playoff game, totally aggressive, but I do think
watching that game last night, Boston needs to look in
(17:21):
the mirror here. I don't know what's happening with Porzingis,
but the mystery illness, the injuries, the inconsistency. Kats got
his issues, so does Robinson for the Knicks, but they
feel like they're more substantial. You got to look in
the mirror on Joe Mizzoula. I thought he got worked.
Al Horford's old Drew Holliday is age very quickly, and
(17:42):
the teams out west and Indiana out east are all
getting better and the Knicks are for real. So and
this team is strapped financially, even if they just signed
their first round pick. The Celtics are strapped financially, and
my guess is Tatum's not playing at best until the
All Star Game. So this reminds me, and it's it's
(18:02):
one of the things about pro sports we talk about
all the time is that this team reminds me of Denver.
So they had jokicch they had Jamal Murray, they had
a bunch of good players and one great player, and
Denver won the title. And I can remember saying, boy,
they could be San Antonio. They got their Duncan and
then all of a sudden they had to move off
some bench guys and rotational guys, and you look up
(18:24):
and you're like, uh, Denver's Denver surrounded by a bunch
of good young teams and Wemby and SGA, and Denver's
just gonna get one, which is fine. Getting one is
It's more than the Niners have done. It's more than
Baltimore and the Bills have done in the NFL. Getting
one trophy's hard, but they've got a Boston's it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
New York's for real.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Indiana's got an excellent roster and may beat if they
get through it, beat New York.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
OK.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
See, Houston, San Antonio are going nowhere. I mean the
good news I guess for Boston is Yannis is going west.
But I would say Milwaukee's going to load up on
young players. I think I think Boston's got a Boston
issue is that. I think, like Denver, we looked at
(19:16):
them and we thought, Okay, this thing's going to last.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Then the owner always be.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Careful when the owner sells, what do they see the
owner cells? Now, Tatum's hurt, Poorzingi's true holiday age very quickly.
And I think Joe Missoula felt like last night, he
really felt second third tier, like he's kind of one
golf club in the back coach, so Adam Silver, he
didn't want dynasties. And you know, Boston's an example. They
(19:43):
are up against it. Their payrolls, what five hundred million,
they gotta move off pieces. Here was Joe Missoula on
and just add this in. It's awful, that devastating Jason
Tatum injury.
Speaker 8 (19:57):
I mean, obviously, always concerned about someone's health. So you
know it's twofold. We're concerned about his health where he's at,
and then we're concerned about what we have to do
better for game five. W' go'n get back to Boston.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, he was playing a great basketball game. He was
really aggressive between Brunson and Jason Tatum. You were getting
I was sitting there washing and I'm like, boy, this
is an all time NBA playoff game. This is all
time stuff. The New York crowd is fantastic. Indiana and
New York crowds are nuts. They are Jeff. The Eastern
(20:31):
Conference doesn't have as good as players or teams. The
fans are nuts in Indiana and New York. And it
was one of those games where you really felt the
crowd was elevating the team, but Tatum, because Pritcher wasn't
playing much, Tatum was really carrying that team. They were
just doing ISOs and when he got a little cold,
suddenly boomed.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Nixt lead by nine shot making.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So I think my guess is, I look at Boston
going forward, cross your fingers on Tatum. But will they
become Milwaukee, Denver, Toronto Raptors where you think there's more
you look up and it's like we're a one time
championship team.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Are my owner?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Takeaway in this is I thought all year New York's
got to take a big swing. If this is how
the NBA is going to allow games to be officiated,
physical teams that d up and make shots late. When
New York does not need a big swing, they may
need a tweak. I don't trust Robinson at the line
or Cat's defense may need a big guy tweak. Bridge
(21:30):
has been great, though, Brunson's a number one. OG's been amazing,
Josh Hart excellent team player, and Tibbs is having a
great series for New York. So I think it's more
of a tweak for New York. You know this Knicks
front office for the last three years has been so patient,
and all of us in the media keeps saying, get
(21:50):
Giannis and get KD and.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
For years they would.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But this New York Knicks front office is patient and
smart and kind of tunes out the press and the
media smartly, and they are a I mean, it's you
can't watch that game last night and not I mean,
I found myself rooting for the Knicks in this series.
You can't not root for a team that plays this
hard and makes these kind of shops. I mean, it's
(22:15):
very rare when a New York team is a lovable underdog,
and they are. They're one of the great watches in
the league. It's a combination of Villanova, NBA, guts, guile, toughness, coaching.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
It's hard to turn off.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
By the way, are you surprised the Celtics kept leaving
thirty eight year old Al Horford on an island against
Brunson threw a double at I was stunned, and Brunson's
just cooking and left and right he had amazing I
just their offense.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
They just started standing around.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It's like it's like, listen, that's when you call a
time out. You gotta call a timeout engineer a play
get a basket because that New York crowd did you notice?
I mean it was like it felt like almost if
you ever go to a boxing match and there's a
home fighter where it's in Panama and it's a Panamanian fighter,
and you can tell the crowd is elevating the boxer.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I mean it was like when you go to New York.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And this crowd and they go on like a six
to zhing run time out, call a play get a
bucket because that crowd was jet fuel for the Knicks.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
By the way, did you see who's leading the Celtics
in points, rebounds, assistance, steals.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
In the series. I wasn't sure if you saw that. No,
it's Jayson Tatum. No, he was play great last night.
He played great. Is that great series?
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It's had a good series. He had a great night,
a good series, a great night.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
He was tremendous last night. Loss our fingers on that.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
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Speaker 3 (24:38):
That's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well there's no basketball coach ever, Yeah, I'm reading the
accolades the most wins by any head basketball coach and
men's basketball history that's pretty good. That seems like that'd
be near the top of my resume. Five natties, forty
two years at Duke the Goal Standard Program twenty four
(25:01):
to zero. Is an Olympic coach and now a public
speaker with grandkids in the area. What a life for
Mike Krzyzewski, who's.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Now joining US Live. You know you told me years ago,
you said.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Colin, I start recruiting guys six to seven years before
you you see me sign them.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
So let's talk Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Basketball is a very unique sport where you can see
it ten eleven, twelve thirteen, you can see special. Do
you remember the first time you saw Cooper Flag?
Speaker 7 (25:33):
You know I do not because I'm three years retired,
so shire must have seen him when he was fourteen.
But I did see him when he was at Mont Third. Yeah, like, yeah,
they have Actually they have four from his high school team.
(25:53):
They have four kids are going to be first round
draft picks. And I knew he was special because they
had so much talent. I didn't realize how special he is.
And this kid plays every play hard, and yes, every play,
every play.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, people have compared him, I think almost favorably to
Jason Tatum. When I watch him, he feels a little
more aggressive than Jason, and he's an aggressive attacking player.
Do you think that comp is fair and realistic?
Speaker 7 (26:29):
I don't. I think they're two different players. They're both
six eight. Actually, I think Cooper grew about an inch here.
You know, he's still only eighteen years old, so he's
still growing. He might end up being sixteen. But I
think offensively, you know, Jason really has developed into a
(26:52):
great shooter. We're waiting to find out about his injury,
but he's really developed differently than I think Cooper will develop.
Cooper is just unique, you know, like he he's he's
(27:13):
so strong, his legs are so strong, and athletically he's gifted,
but attitude, and when you add his athletic ability and
his competitive attitude, you have a very special guy. And
(27:33):
he can really score the ball. I think he's a
good shooter, uh trying to become a really good shooter,
whereas Jason, Jason is that shooter.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I read Ian O'Connor's book about you, which I thought
was fascinating on so many levels, and it's so funny.
John Wooden in you, you know, you're obviously the all
time greats, but John Wooden it took a long time
for him to win at U C. L A. And
as Ian O'Connor pointed out, there was a meeting or
two about Mike Krzyzewski in about your fourth year, and
(28:06):
people are like, we don't know if this kid from
Army is gonna work. You endured for a lot of reasons.
You're smart, you're collaborative, you are a grinder. There's a
lot of reasons. But when I look at college basketball today,
do you like the place we're in? Tom Izzo's a survivor,
(28:26):
but a lot of the big ones have left. Sometimes
college football, I think is too impatient. Do you think
college basketball is good to coaches? Because the NBA, I
could argue, is not a great place to coach. Is
college basketball today?
Speaker 7 (28:42):
Actually, I think the NBA is a better place to coach.
I think college basketball now is pretty much like the NBA,
except there's no transparency. In other words, you're at one school,
I'm at another. I don't know what you're doing for
a player. You don't know what I'm doing for a player.
(29:05):
And it's really professional right now or college basketball. But
the product is outstanding and kids are staying longer because
of nil, you're getting older teams, the influx of international
young international pro players to college. You can win quicker
(29:28):
in college now and by John Shire has done a
great job here at Duke replacing me, and I've told them,
I said, I think you've done a better job than
I would have done in the last three years with
all the changes, because I would have always been saying stuff, well,
(29:52):
it used to be this way, it used to be
that way, and for you you're just starting out, it
wasn't used to be it is and right now, I
just think people should put their arms around college sport,
especially college basketball, in my opinion, and run it like
a business because it is a business and the product
(30:16):
is great. Though there's so much talent out there.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
You know, there's an argument people have made. I don't
know if I concur with it, but it's an interesting
argument that JJ Reddick is smart.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
He's very tightly.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Wound that in the NBA, in big games, he kind
of he's a teeth clencher a little bit. He's very
very intense and in the NBA as a coach, he
was very intense and people say, boy, it's not about
that it's it's more Steve Kerr, you got to be
part psychologist, part schematic guy that maybe JJ is is
just too intense when you watched I mean and listen,
(30:52):
that's a good quality to have. What do you make
of I mean you were intense. I watched you write
officials for several years. Is what do you make of
those discussions about JJ that maybe he's wound a little tight.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
Now? You know, he he wants to win and his
preparation to win is outstanding. You know, there's a learning
curve in every profession. I thought he had a great,
great uh season and uh, his players, he went over
his players. His players know how hard he works, and yeah,
(31:30):
he was a terrific player. He Uh, you know, I
think he's he's learned a lot from this year. You know,
he'll critique himself and have you know, he has a
veteran staff where those guys will take a look at
what they did and uh, how they were doing it
(31:51):
and make adjustments going into into next year. But he
had a great Uh, he had a great first year.
And they played a team in the first round that
was deeper and more athletic. Yes, and and the NBA
has scotten more physical, which I think is good. But
it's really physical in the playoffs, and that lends itself
(32:16):
to given the Timberwolves a little bit more of an advantage.
And they're a good team, you know, they They're a
really good team.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
You Steve Kerr, Mark few Beheim, you guys all have
done a very good job coaching professional players. Uh as
college coaches. Obviously Kerr played at Arizona, but he's a
pro coach and is there coaching. Is coaching at Duke
because you have so many pro players is a little.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
NBA ish, Yeah, it is, It is.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
It is. Do you think did you ever take anything
from the pros and bring it back to Duke to
help you?
Speaker 7 (32:58):
Oh? Yeah, you know, I coach the US team for
eleven years in three Olympics and two World Championships, and
I brought back a lot, you know. Uh, you know, uh,
the sports science. You know, how guys prepared language, not
cussing in that but different although probably picked up a
(33:20):
few words there too.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Now, just how they their defensive coverages, you know, but
they're one of the main things is how hard they
prepared and uh, and the excellent shape they kept themselves
in and I brought that back where we really increased
our sports medicine, science and and uh. But it also
(33:45):
helped me uh X and O wise. You know, I
had Jim Beheim was with me eleven years, but I
had Money Williams and uh Thibodeau, you know, these guys
who are uh yeah, terrific pro coaches. And I learned
a law from him. But I learned from the players
(34:07):
because they really Yeah, these are great players. Kobe Bryant,
Lebron James, all these guys. Uh, they they really understand
the game. People uh don't realize how smart they are
and how much preparation that they give. So uh, those
(34:28):
were eleven amazing years for uh for me, and I
was very lucky to have that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
You know, Christian Latner was so dominant when he played,
and he was part of that Kentucky win. You I
just years and years ago, maybe it was Jay Billis
was sharing a story about the first time you had
seen Lebron and he took two steps at half court
and dunked it. And you turned to Billis, what in
the world am I watching? Go back to your college career.
(34:58):
I'm going to test your memory. Was there a moment
when you obviously coached your team hard, but you allowed
players to go off script a Grant Hill players. Was
there ever a moment in college you went back and
you turned to an assistant and you're like, this player
is better than I thought he would be. This like
you were actually as a coach, you turned an assistant
(35:20):
and said, I never imagined he would be this good
this player.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
Yeah. Now, a number of times I can remember when
we had Bobby Hurley yep, and Bobby was this good
at point guard that's ever played in college. And one
practice he's playing defense and I woke to Tommy Amaker,
who's one of my assistants, standing it. I said, I've
never seen anybody play that hard. And then at times
(35:49):
with grand Hill, you know, if Grant Hill had not
been injured five years since his pro career, he would
have ended up being one of the top ten players
of all time. And but he was very humble, and
there are times at timeouts I would say, uh yeah,
for every four minutes, I'd say, Okay, every time you
(36:11):
touch the ball, you I don't want you to pass it.
I just want you to do whatever you want with it.
He said, what do you mean I said, no, just
do something where someone says, you know, how did coach
K teach you how to do that? I'm not lying.
I mean this is true. And because there are players,
(36:34):
there's certain players that you have to be careful not
to overcoach. You have to give them the run to
become what their talent can can show. And uh uh,
you know, Zion was was that uh uh, you know
(36:55):
really even though he he's an outstanding athlete, but he
was and that like those two guys as I and
Grant Beattier was like that. He was very humble too.
And let's say, come on, man, you know, let it out,
you know, let it out, like we are talking about
JJ earlier. JJ did Colin He did some stuff that
(37:21):
I could not imagine. You know, in Hostel Arenas, you know,
guys were pulling on his shirt. He was trying to
run him into the ground. And he enjoyed putting up
forty on the road or thirty eight or thirty six.
Speaker 10 (37:40):
He was.
Speaker 7 (37:40):
He was so damn cocky and good. I know, he
he really was. I love my plays worked better with
I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeahs Nick Saban says, yeah, it almost plays better when
I get a great pass rush from a five star guy.
Speaker 7 (37:58):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Finally, I there's a lot of reasons I like NIL.
One of the reasons I like it is because I
like kids having a little money and before they have
a lot of money, because a lot of athletes don't
have it. So I like a guy having a couple
hundred thousand and maybe blown it on a close and
(38:19):
before he gets twenty million. And I do think it's
instructive that before you get you know, it used to
be no money college, you make a fortune. And I
think that's tough on anybody, regardless of your background. Is
have you found there are some things with NIL that
that I think it's keeping more kids in college.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
I like college basketball over G League.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
But are there things about NIL beyond just a kid
making money that you think are instructive or you like
about it?
Speaker 7 (38:50):
Well, it is what it is, and so we should
put our arms around it and figure out how to
make it the very very best. I will say that
one of the things you just mentioned, it's not right
with all all these kids where you make a lot
of money now and then you're going to make a
lot of money later. Most of the kids. Remember, there's
(39:12):
there's not as many are going to make it into
the MBA are going to be making more money in
college than they will after college. And that's the thing. Yeah,
I mean their kids make There are a lot of
kids making seven figures now, not all if you've counted
(39:34):
all those kids up around the country making half a
million to three or four million, depending on the school.
And there are a lot of kids and they're you know,
what's the lottery. We got fourteen guys there. The first
round has thirty picks, and so they're going to be
(39:55):
guys who there are kids now, there are kids that
have not been invited to the combine who are making
seven figures last year in college. You know, so you're
going to have to deal with that. However, if they're smart,
they have a right to make that money, just so
(40:16):
they use it wisely and they're able to transition to
the next phase of their playing career.
Speaker 10 (40:23):
You know.
Speaker 7 (40:24):
Uh, the guys who are lottery picks that they don't
that's the normal thing. That's the normal thing. But it's
all changed, Colin. It's it's changed, and it doesn't mean
that it's bad. It just means that we have to
get better control over it and make sure make sure
that these kids are well taken care of. You know
(40:46):
right now, if you're a college coach at a high
level program, you know you're you're dealing more with agents
than you are with coaches, and that's why you have
general managers and it's run like a professional team, except
there are no contracts, which that might change depending on
(41:09):
where to how this sol is going. But it's just
in a state of flux right now. But God blessed,
the kids should make as much as they can. They
should transfer just like any other student, whenever they want.
But that's going to run out, and hopefully when it
(41:29):
runs out in college, they're able to go to a
level of playing basketball that is really good for them.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Coach k forty two years ambassad now in the speaking circuit.
Love to hear some of his stories. Nobody's ever won
more basketball games and men's basketball, and that is saying something.
There's been unbelievable coaches. You can turn the TV on
every night. It can be Rick Carlisle or Chris Finch.
There are great coaches everywhere. My buddy Tom Izzo, Basketball's
(41:58):
got great coaches everyoney And you're at the very top
of that coach, and I appreciate you stopping by.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (42:04):
No, I've always enjoyed being on and thanks for not
forgetting me. Yeah, that was you know, I don't even
know why I said that. I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I liked it. He listen erased that you're you're.
Speaker 7 (42:24):
You're capable of doing anything. Erased.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
That just go right into the ether. Nobody heard but
you and me. That's it. That's the only people that
heard it.
Speaker 7 (42:32):
All right, all right, good see, thanks for having me out.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
You're at the great Mike Krzyzewski. Yeah, it's uh.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I mean, like I think what it took Mike a
couple of years to embrace one and done.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
But I think with N I L.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
You can complain about stuff, like Rick Carla or Rick
Patino said. You can complain about stuff, or you can
embrace it and try to figure it out. It's like anything.
I mean, I almost look at N I L as
a new tax code. All right, got a new tax code.
An accountant's job is to figure out how to use
it best for his clients. I mean, in the end,
you can you know, I don't like what it is.
(43:08):
It by the way, every year, the wild wild West
will get a little less wild, and everybody will get
their arms around it, and we're going to be okay, Nick, Right,
Coach K good guest today. As I get ready to
get on a plane with a few others and head
to a beautiful city, some of us are staying behind.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Others are taking the big swing.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin cowher
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Here we go on a Tuesday. Man, there is a
lot happening in Sports Live. It's the Herd wherever you
may be and however it may be listening. Thanks for
making us part of your day. Well, there was perceived
controversy that the New York Knicks look like the real deal.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
The Warriors are done.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
NFL schedule release coach k Mike Krzyzewski stops by Nick
Wright in an hour from now stop by.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Wild night.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
But so many different storylines, just a completely why in
the NBA.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Yeah, you could say that Colin conspiracy theorists running wild.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
It's a great night.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Date of your conspiracy gifts.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Well, several minutes before that awful injury to Jason Tatum,
several minutes before you could see it, I could see it.
I think people in Boston could see it.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
The Knicks.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Are gonna win this series. They're the better team, they're
better coached, they're more relentless. The home crowd clearly elevates
this team. They're dominating the boards. Their bigs are playing better,
They're passing better, less standing around, better decision making more
points in the paint. Tibbs took the Celtics head coach
(01:44):
Joe Missoula to the cleaners. The Celtics in the second
half it was ISOs stand around basketball coach? Pull some levers?
Do something? What happened to Peyton Pritchard. Isn't he good?
Why he only played twenty minutes? It was just hard
to watch Missoula coaches like he's got a checklist. That's
not That's not what NBA playoff basketball is about. It's
(02:08):
about pulling levers. You can see us Steve Kerr do
it though he's out manned. You really see a Chris
Finch doing it for years, Eric Spolstra. Joe Missoula has
got like one club in his bag. When the three point.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
Shots don't fall, he's out of luck.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
But this series really has not been about the Celtics
it's been about New York. If you didn't know better,
and you just turned into that thing last night, you
would think the world champion New York Knicks were defending
their title. Their ability to execute in crunch time, everybody's
touching the ball, the shot making from Kat Brunson, og bridges,
(02:48):
the toughness coming back multiple games, all of them from
twenty points down. Their leader, Jalen Brunson, Let's just be honest.
He is like the new Jerry West. He is mister
Krott Clotte Tatum played great before the injury.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
It was a great game.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
But in terms of clutch, is there any small player
in this league you trust more with the ball than
Jalen Brunson.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
I'm including staff. I know he's.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Undersized, I know he's a second rounder. I know he's
not a premier athlete, but man, he finds good shots.
He has been, and I've said this for the last
two years, the best quarterback New York has.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
His decision making. You can tell he's a.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Smart guy that went to Villanova, Dad played in the league.
Fearless player, totally trustworthy. But again, it's not just that
New York's winning, it's how they're winning New York is
making Boston look fragmented, disorganized, poorly coached, confused and passive.
(03:56):
If you'd never watch basketball and you tune into that
game and I say, find the champion, it looks like
the Knicks. They've got a swagger, a confidence, shot making
and attitude, even before the Tatum injury, which was obviously awful.
And he We're not going to speculate, but that looked
really bad. We'll find out more today an MRI New York.
(04:16):
It's only three to one Nicks. It felt like it
was over five minutes before the Tatum injury. The confidence,
the shot and making. I'm sitting here watching everybody on
that team depending on nobody great ball movement. Josh Harten
didn't need a bunch of points. He touch it, get
it into somebody who's hot. Here's Brunson after.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
I think it was a sense of urgency, desperation, just
knowing that we have a great opportunity. I were playing
a really good team and I don't even think we're
playing our best basketball yet. We have a team who's
fairly new this year, and we still have a long
(04:59):
way to go to be the best thing we can be.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
It is these windows close fast. I was talking to
a friend last night in the podcast, and I said,
remember when the Seahawks were great and then they won
a Super Bowl, blew out Peyton Manning. They go to
another one, should win it. Russell Wilson throws a pick.
People thought Marshawn Lynch should have gotten the handoff. They
lose close to Brady and the Patriots. It screws with
(05:23):
the culture in the locker room. There's doubt, there's finger pointing.
Never the same franchise good but never great again. And
with Boston the injury, five hundred million dollar bankroll, needed
new owners. They're getting old. What happened to poorzingis?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I know the West has better teams, younger teams, But
when I watched the Knicks all year long, I've thought,
you know, they've got to solve this. They they need
another shot maker. I'm watching this series and I'm like,
they maybe they need to tweak a more dependable big,
but I don't think they need much, at least to
(05:59):
win the East. All right, Let's talk Golden State. Golden
State's in trouble, not just this year, but for the
foreseeable future. They brought in Jimmy Butler, as we talked
about yesterday, to squeeze every last bit of juice out
of staff and Steve Kerr again excellent coach, but just
(06:22):
like the Lakers series where old Lebron, Luca and Austin
Reeves kind of felt outmanned that Minnesota was getting more
out of more players. I'm watching the Timberwolves. That's the
opposite of the Celtics. That team doesn't have As this
team doesn't have as much talent. They're pulling every lever.
(06:42):
I mean, Julius Randall, he's a legitimate too. He was
never a good playoff guy. He's been excellent thirty one
last night, fifty two percent from the field. His assist
playmaking has been fantastic. He's finally a dependable playoff guy.
And Edwards unrefined at times. Anybody notice in the series
he averages seven points in the first half, twenty in
(07:04):
the second. Something the staff is doing and tweaking is
changing the way he plays in every game in the
second half. It's remarkable. This is an odd, disparate roster
full of guys that shouldn't fit. Seven foot one Rudy Gobert,
who can't really shoot undrafted Naz Reid, who's a good athlete,
but what else. Julius Randall, who's a tweeter and an
(07:27):
emerging superstar who sometimes can't find his shot. It's just
a bunch of guys who we've never trusted in the playoffs,
and now for the second straight.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Year, we do.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I mean Lebron, Luca and Austin Reeves look completely outclassed.
A little bit of Steph Butler and Draymond similarly, it
doesn't feel like they're close. And this was the clear
value of coaching on display. You look at this Minnesota roster,
you could argue there's five or six better rosters. Cleveland's
roster is better. Okay, sees is obviously better. I could
(08:02):
argue Golden State when Steph is healthy healthy, is close.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
But it's it's they have.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Transformed all these different pieces that shouldn't necessarily fit. Julius
Randall didn't really fit early in the season. Now at
the end of the season, what a great, dependable number two.
We've never said that about Julius Randall. And it was
a halftime speech by a newly formed leader and Edwards
(08:31):
that changed the game.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
I told him we only got two wins.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
I've never seen a series and two one, So I
told him, you know, we got to get two more wins.
And right now we're playing like we already got four wins,
Like we're playing like they're gonna lay down, and knowing
his team, knowing their head coach, they're never going to
lay down.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
So we had we had to figure.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
It out, man, because if we would have kept playing
like that, we would have lost the night.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
So during the Dynasty, in the Great Run by Steve Kerr,
he has always been known the Warriors have had some
of the great third quarters. Ever a little tweak add
this subtract that change that tweak that the Warriors would
take close games and come out with an eighteen to
four run and end it. That's what Minnesota has been doing.
(09:15):
Especially Aunt Edwards, he is a totally different player. First
couple of games in this series, shots didn't fall, couldn't
get the close ones to go either. He's been in
this series transformed. That is, along with Aunt, Randall, Gobert,
nas Reed and the rest that is coaching on display.
(09:36):
So Jmac, the listen. I don't care what people say
about market size. The defending champs are in big trouble
Minnesota is going to beat the most popular player, Steph Curry.
Lakers have already been extinguished. Okase, he's a small market,
but nonetheless, Americans are absolutely sure.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
The was rigged.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
Well Collin, first of all, I don't know that the
Timberwolves are beating Steph Curry since he's barely played in
the series. They're beating a Warriors team which doesn't look like,
I mean anything resembling a playoff team without Curry. It
is amazing how far they've fallen without a superstar. Yeah,
I mean it's it's I think Boston will show up
the next game without Tatum.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yes, the Warriors can't do anything without Curry.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Yeah, I mean he is their GPS. They're kind of
a directionless offense. He's the you know, we've said this,
there are certain players Lebron in his prime and Steph
Curry where they're kind of the ecosystem. Like the offense
goes through them. It looks different, the pacing is different,
the ball movements. That's why Kaminga is flourishing without staff,
(10:45):
and then the offense totally changes with staff and he
just looks lost. So there are the good news for
Golden state is they're going to be able to move Kaminga,
who looks like a twenty game, twenty point a game
guy against a very good defensive team. So Kaminga his
value shot up. That's the only thing if you're the Warriors.
Because I don't think Curry's gonna play he acknowledged yesterday,
(11:05):
is what's the point of risking it? Hamstring, as you've noted,
is a rest injury. But Cominga's play has created a market.
Speaker 7 (11:13):
It has.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
I just the whole the way the draft went down
last night, The draft lottery, this Yannis stuff is going
absolutely volcanic. There's so many teams potentially involved, plus the
Tatum injury, Colin. I had thought Boston could be a
landing spot for you. Honest, I don't know if that's
the case anymore. Due to this injury to Tatum, He's
gonna be out until at least the All Star break,
(11:35):
possibly longer.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, next year stinks. Well, we'll talk that draft lottery.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
in neone Eastern non a em Pacific on Fox Sports
Radio FS one and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, you're seeing it all over America. A lack of
trust in institutions. It could be the FBI, the CIA,
It could be the media.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
It could be the White House.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
The default explanation in America in twenty twenty five, when
you are ticked off or you can't explain something or
something doesn't go your way. It could be officiating. It
could be an election. It could be the draft lottery.
Is it's rigged? Yeah, I've got video of Dallas's draft
room last night. Draft lottery room. You're gonna get twelve
guys to act like this for thirty seconds. There aren't
(12:21):
this many good actors in Hollywood that would do that.
Did they rig it for Creuddy Atlanta last year? That
was also a playing team like the MAVs. Did they
rig it for the New York Islanders like the Mavericks
had a very small percentage to win.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah, it's fixed.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
It is fixed, fixed so that the worst tanking teams
don't win the lottery.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yes, it is fixed.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Essentially, the draft lottery now is like the local raffle
at your tavern where you got fifteen twenty people. It's
a raffle, and sometimes the same guy wins two out.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Of four raffles. That's the way it is.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
By the way, when Zion Williamson out of Huge and
do condunking machine was available and the Knicks had the
number one pick, Yeah, they fixed it so the Pelicans
would get it, or Atlanta last year. By the way,
if you're going to fix it, give Chicago or Philadelphia
Cooper flag, not football crazy Dallas. The NBA has flattened
(13:19):
the lottery. Are odds essentially a raffle, a scratch off ticket?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
What's that mean?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
No team with the worst record has won it since
they did it. The NBA changed the rules to create this.
Do you really think Wemby? They would say, let's say
where can we put Wemby? Let's put him in San Antonio. Yeah,
the last time san Antonio had a dynasty, it killed
the TV ratings for a decade. You would not pick
san Antonio, believe me. In fact, some of you aren't
(13:48):
very good at math. The three teams with the best
odds to win last night, the odds were fourteen percent.
That's a raffle. Those are the best odds. If you
add the three teams with the best odds together, it
still doesn't reach fifty percent. And what's happened the last
(14:08):
several years the best odds has finished fifth, and that
happened again last night.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Utah.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
It is a raffle. They flattened the odds. You would
not have put Wemby in San Antonio. You would not
have put Zion with the Pelicans. The Pelicans have won
this thing multiple times. Well, Lebron left and they gave
Cleveland Andrew Wiggins. It doesn't matter if Lebron's coming or going.
Nobody in any league office is rooting for Cleveland to
(14:35):
get the best players.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
So it's just like, this.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Is the way it worked. This is what the NBA wanted.
The NBA wanted what you're seeing with the CBA. There
are no more dynasties. That's what Adams Olver wanted. And
with this, I mean the crazy thing San Antonio almost won,
which is nuts, but it should be noted they also
draft and develop well. For the third year in a row,
(15:01):
the team with the worst actual record did not win
this thing. And I think Cooper Flag in Dallas is great.
I think I think he's exactly what they needed. But
he's also exactly what every team in the league. The
Lakers could use him. The Knicks are a good team.
They could use him. He's Jason Tatum. That's what he is.
(15:21):
He's Jason Tatum, and he's got twelve thirteen years potentially
a prime coming into the league.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
So just listen.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I understand nobody trusts institutions. I get it. It's happening
all over the land, right it's FBI, CIA vaccines.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Everybody on the internet's an expert. That's fight.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Doesn't bother me. I'm not going to try to convince
you otherwise. I'm just telling you what I see, which
is the NBA. Adam Silver said, you know what, I'm
gonna be friendlier to the players than David Stern. I'm
gonna get out of the dynasty business, and we're gonna
flatten these odds because tanking is really bad. Tanking's really
bad for the NBA for a lot of reasons. One
of the reasons it's really bad is March. College basketball
(16:02):
is super competitive with the tournament, and March is the
time in the NBA that teams tank. So you watch
a college game with all that energy and then turn
to an NBA game and it's like, you know, the
wizard's tanking, and Adam Silver's like, this is a bad
six week look.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
For our league.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
So they got seventy six billion dollars for eleven years. Okay, Now,
whether NBC can make that work financially, that's up to NBC.
But if you want to believe tanking and rig go
for it. I'm just saying Wemby wouldn't have been picked
in San Antonio and Zion wouldn't go to the Pelicans
because the Knicks had the number one pick. By the way, Utah,
(16:41):
this is what keeps happening. Best odds only fourteen percent.
Once again, best odds get the fifth pick. That's how
raffles work. I've had raffles. I've never won a raffle.
I've bought thirty tickets to a raffle with twelve people.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I've never won a raffle.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I have been at raffles, had one hundred bucks in
my pocket and bought tickets for the whole family and
not want to raffle. I don't think it's rigged. I
think that's how scratch off games and raffles work. We're
not going to speculate on Jason Tatum. He was having
a great playoff game, totally aggressive, but I do think
watching that game last night, Boston needs to look in
(17:21):
the mirror here. I don't know what's happening with Porzingis,
but the mystery illness, the injuries, the inconsistency. Kats got
his issues, so does Robinson for the Knicks, but they
feel like they're more substantial. You got to look in
the mirror on Joe Mizzoula. I thought he got worked.
Al Horford's old Drew Holliday is age very quickly, and
(17:42):
the teams out west and Indiana out east are all
getting better and the Knicks are for real. So and
this team is strapped financially, even if they just signed
their first round pick. The Celtics are strapped financially, and
my guess is Tatum's not playing at best until the
All Star Game. So this reminds me, and it's it's
(18:02):
one of the things about pro sports we talk about
all the time is that this team reminds me of Denver.
So they had jokicch they had Jamal Murray, they had
a bunch of good players and one great player, and
Denver won the title. And I can remember saying, boy,
they could be San Antonio. They got their Duncan and
then all of a sudden they had to move off
some bench guys and rotational guys, and you look up
(18:24):
and you're like, uh, Denver's Denver surrounded by a bunch
of good young teams and Wemby and SGA, and Denver's
just gonna get one, which is fine. Getting one is
It's more than the Niners have done. It's more than
Baltimore and the Bills have done in the NFL. Getting
one trophy's hard, but they've got a Boston's it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
New York's for real.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Indiana's got an excellent roster and may beat if they
get through it, beat New York.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
OK.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
See, Houston, San Antonio are going nowhere. I mean the
good news I guess for Boston is Yannis is going west.
But I would say Milwaukee's going to load up on
young players. I think I think Boston's got a Boston
issue is that. I think, like Denver, we looked at
(19:16):
them and we thought, Okay, this thing's going to last.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Then the owner always be.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Careful when the owner sells, what do they see the
owner cells? Now, Tatum's hurt, Poorzingi's true holiday age very quickly.
And I think Joe Missoula felt like last night, he
really felt second third tier, like he's kind of one
golf club in the back coach, so Adam Silver, he
didn't want dynasties. And you know, Boston's an example. They
(19:43):
are up against it. Their payrolls, what five hundred million,
they gotta move off pieces. Here was Joe Missoula on
and just add this in. It's awful, that devastating Jason
Tatum injury.
Speaker 8 (19:57):
I mean, obviously, always concerned about someone's health. So you
know it's twofold. We're concerned about his health where he's at,
and then we're concerned about what we have to do
better for game five. W' go'n get back to Boston.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, he was playing a great basketball game. He was
really aggressive between Brunson and Jason Tatum. You were getting
I was sitting there washing and I'm like, boy, this
is an all time NBA playoff game. This is all
time stuff. The New York crowd is fantastic. Indiana and
New York crowds are nuts. They are Jeff. The Eastern
(20:31):
Conference doesn't have as good as players or teams. The
fans are nuts in Indiana and New York. And it
was one of those games where you really felt the
crowd was elevating the team, but Tatum, because Pritcher wasn't
playing much, Tatum was really carrying that team. They were
just doing ISOs and when he got a little cold,
suddenly boomed.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Nixt lead by nine shot making.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So I think my guess is, I look at Boston
going forward, cross your fingers on Tatum. But will they
become Milwaukee, Denver, Toronto Raptors where you think there's more
you look up and it's like we're a one time
championship team.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Are my owner?
Speaker 1 (21:07):
Takeaway in this is I thought all year New York's
got to take a big swing. If this is how
the NBA is going to allow games to be officiated,
physical teams that d up and make shots late. When
New York does not need a big swing, they may
need a tweak. I don't trust Robinson at the line
or Cat's defense may need a big guy tweak. Bridge
(21:30):
has been great, though, Brunson's a number one. OG's been amazing,
Josh Hart excellent team player, and Tibbs is having a
great series for New York. So I think it's more
of a tweak for New York. You know this Knicks
front office for the last three years has been so patient,
and all of us in the media keeps saying, get
(21:50):
Giannis and get KD and.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
For years they would.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
But this New York Knicks front office is patient and
smart and kind of tunes out the press and the
media smartly, and they are a I mean, it's you
can't watch that game last night and not I mean,
I found myself rooting for the Knicks in this series.
You can't not root for a team that plays this
hard and makes these kind of shops. I mean, it's
(22:15):
very rare when a New York team is a lovable underdog,
and they are. They're one of the great watches in
the league. It's a combination of Villanova, NBA, guts, guile, toughness, coaching.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
It's hard to turn off.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
By the way, are you surprised the Celtics kept leaving
thirty eight year old Al Horford on an island against
Brunson threw a double at I was stunned, and Brunson's
just cooking and left and right he had amazing I
just their offense.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
They just started standing around.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It's like it's like, listen, that's when you call a
time out. You gotta call a timeout engineer a play
get a basket because that New York crowd did you notice?
I mean it was like it felt like almost if
you ever go to a boxing match and there's a
home fighter where it's in Panama and it's a Panamanian fighter,
and you can tell the crowd is elevating the boxer.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
I mean it was like when you go to New York.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And this crowd and they go on like a six
to zhing run time out, call a play get a
bucket because that crowd was jet fuel for the Knicks.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
By the way, did you see who's leading the Celtics
in points, rebounds, assistance, steals.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
In the series. I wasn't sure if you saw that. No,
it's Jayson Tatum. No, he was play great last night.
He played great. Is that great series?
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It's had a good series. He had a great night,
a good series, a great night.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
He was tremendous last night. Loss our fingers on that.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 9 (23:44):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
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Speaker 3 (24:38):
That's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well there's no basketball coach ever, Yeah, I'm reading the
accolades the most wins by any head basketball coach and
men's basketball history that's pretty good. That seems like that'd
be near the top of my resume. Five natties, forty
two years at Duke the Goal Standard Program twenty four
(25:01):
to zero. Is an Olympic coach and now a public
speaker with grandkids in the area. What a life for
Mike Krzyzewski, who's.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Now joining US Live. You know you told me years ago,
you said.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Colin, I start recruiting guys six to seven years before
you you see me sign them.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
So let's talk Cooper Flag.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Basketball is a very unique sport where you can see
it ten eleven, twelve thirteen, you can see special. Do
you remember the first time you saw Cooper Flag?
Speaker 7 (25:33):
You know I do not because I'm three years retired,
so shire must have seen him when he was fourteen.
But I did see him when he was at Mont Third. Yeah, like, yeah,
they have Actually they have four from his high school team.
(25:53):
They have four kids are going to be first round
draft picks. And I knew he was special because they
had so much talent. I didn't realize how special he is.
And this kid plays every play hard, and yes, every play,
every play.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, people have compared him, I think almost favorably to
Jason Tatum. When I watch him, he feels a little
more aggressive than Jason, and he's an aggressive attacking player.
Do you think that comp is fair and realistic?
Speaker 7 (26:29):
I don't. I think they're two different players. They're both
six eight. Actually, I think Cooper grew about an inch here.
You know, he's still only eighteen years old, so he's
still growing. He might end up being sixteen. But I
think offensively, you know, Jason really has developed into a
(26:52):
great shooter. We're waiting to find out about his injury,
but he's really developed differently than I think Cooper will develop.
Cooper is just unique, you know, like he he's he's
(27:13):
so strong, his legs are so strong, and athletically he's gifted,
but attitude, and when you add his athletic ability and
his competitive attitude, you have a very special guy. And
(27:33):
he can really score the ball. I think he's a
good shooter, uh trying to become a really good shooter,
whereas Jason, Jason is that shooter.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I read Ian O'Connor's book about you, which I thought
was fascinating on so many levels, and it's so funny.
John Wooden in you, you know, you're obviously the all
time greats, but John Wooden it took a long time
for him to win at U C. L A. And
as Ian O'Connor pointed out, there was a meeting or
two about Mike Krzyzewski in about your fourth year, and
(28:06):
people are like, we don't know if this kid from
Army is gonna work. You endured for a lot of reasons.
You're smart, you're collaborative, you are a grinder. There's a
lot of reasons. But when I look at college basketball today,
do you like the place we're in? Tom Izzo's a survivor,
(28:26):
but a lot of the big ones have left. Sometimes
college football, I think is too impatient. Do you think
college basketball is good to coaches? Because the NBA, I
could argue, is not a great place to coach. Is
college basketball today?
Speaker 7 (28:42):
Actually, I think the NBA is a better place to coach.
I think college basketball now is pretty much like the NBA,
except there's no transparency. In other words, you're at one school,
I'm at another. I don't know what you're doing for
a player. You don't know what I'm doing for a player.
(29:05):
And it's really professional right now or college basketball. But
the product is outstanding and kids are staying longer because
of nil, you're getting older teams, the influx of international
young international pro players to college. You can win quicker
(29:28):
in college now and by John Shire has done a
great job here at Duke replacing me, and I've told them,
I said, I think you've done a better job than
I would have done in the last three years with
all the changes, because I would have always been saying stuff, well,
(29:52):
it used to be this way, it used to be
that way, and for you you're just starting out, it
wasn't used to be it is and right now, I
just think people should put their arms around college sport,
especially college basketball, in my opinion, and run it like
a business because it is a business and the product
(30:16):
is great. Though there's so much talent out there.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
You know, there's an argument people have made. I don't
know if I concur with it, but it's an interesting
argument that JJ Reddick is smart.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
He's very tightly.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Wound that in the NBA, in big games, he kind
of he's a teeth clencher a little bit. He's very
very intense and in the NBA as a coach, he
was very intense and people say, boy, it's not about
that it's it's more Steve Kerr, you got to be
part psychologist, part schematic guy that maybe JJ is is
just too intense when you watched I mean and listen,
(30:52):
that's a good quality to have. What do you make
of I mean you were intense. I watched you write
officials for several years. Is what do you make of
those discussions about JJ that maybe he's wound a little tight.
Speaker 7 (31:08):
Now? You know, he he wants to win and his
preparation to win is outstanding. You know, there's a learning
curve in every profession. I thought he had a great,
great uh season and uh, his players, he went over
his players. His players know how hard he works, and yeah,
(31:30):
he was a terrific player. He Uh, you know, I
think he's he's learned a lot from this year. You know,
he'll critique himself and have you know, he has a
veteran staff where those guys will take a look at
what they did and uh, how they were doing it
(31:51):
and make adjustments going into into next year. But he
had a great Uh, he had a great first year.
And they played a team in the first round that
was deeper and more athletic. Yes, and and the NBA
has scotten more physical, which I think is good. But
it's really physical in the playoffs, and that lends itself
(32:16):
to given the Timberwolves a little bit more of an advantage.
And they're a good team, you know, they They're a
really good team.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
You Steve Kerr, Mark few Beheim, you guys all have
done a very good job coaching professional players. Uh as
college coaches. Obviously Kerr played at Arizona, but he's a
pro coach and is there coaching. Is coaching at Duke
because you have so many pro players is a little.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
NBA ish, Yeah, it is, It is.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
It is. Do you think did you ever take anything
from the pros and bring it back to Duke to
help you?
Speaker 7 (32:58):
Oh? Yeah, you know, I coach the US team for
eleven years in three Olympics and two World Championships, and
I brought back a lot, you know. Uh, you know, uh,
the sports science. You know, how guys prepared language, not
cussing in that but different although probably picked up a
(33:20):
few words there too.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Uh.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Now, just how they their defensive coverages, you know, but
they're one of the main things is how hard they
prepared and uh, and the excellent shape they kept themselves
in and I brought that back where we really increased
our sports medicine, science and and uh. But it also
(33:45):
helped me uh X and O wise. You know, I
had Jim Beheim was with me eleven years, but I
had Money Williams and uh Thibodeau, you know, these guys
who are uh yeah, terrific pro coaches. And I learned
a law from him. But I learned from the players
(34:07):
because they really Yeah, these are great players. Kobe Bryant,
Lebron James, all these guys. Uh, they they really understand
the game. People uh don't realize how smart they are
and how much preparation that they give. So uh, those
(34:28):
were eleven amazing years for uh for me, and I
was very lucky to have that opportunity.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
You know, Christian Latner was so dominant when he played,
and he was part of that Kentucky win. You I
just years and years ago, maybe it was Jay Billis
was sharing a story about the first time you had
seen Lebron and he took two steps at half court
and dunked it. And you turned to Billis, what in
the world am I watching? Go back to your college career.
(34:58):
I'm going to test your memory. Was there a moment
when you obviously coached your team hard, but you allowed
players to go off script a Grant Hill players. Was
there ever a moment in college you went back and
you turned to an assistant and you're like, this player
is better than I thought he would be. This like
you were actually as a coach, you turned an assistant
(35:20):
and said, I never imagined he would be this good
this player.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
Yeah. Now, a number of times I can remember when
we had Bobby Hurley yep, and Bobby was this good
at point guard that's ever played in college. And one
practice he's playing defense and I woke to Tommy Amaker,
who's one of my assistants, standing it. I said, I've
never seen anybody play that hard. And then at times
(35:49):
with grand Hill, you know, if Grant Hill had not
been injured five years since his pro career, he would
have ended up being one of the top ten players
of all time. And but he was very humble, and
there are times at timeouts I would say, uh yeah,
for every four minutes, I'd say, Okay, every time you
(36:11):
touch the ball, you I don't want you to pass it.
I just want you to do whatever you want with it.
He said, what do you mean I said, no, just
do something where someone says, you know, how did coach
K teach you how to do that? I'm not lying.
I mean this is true. And because there are players,
(36:34):
there's certain players that you have to be careful not
to overcoach. You have to give them the run to
become what their talent can can show. And uh uh,
you know, Zion was was that uh uh, you know
(36:55):
really even though he he's an outstanding athlete, but he
was and that like those two guys as I and
Grant Beattier was like that. He was very humble too.
And let's say, come on, man, you know, let it out,
you know, let it out, like we are talking about
JJ earlier. JJ did Colin He did some stuff that
(37:21):
I could not imagine. You know, in Hostel Arenas, you know,
guys were pulling on his shirt. He was trying to
run him into the ground. And he enjoyed putting up
forty on the road or thirty eight or thirty six.
Speaker 10 (37:40):
He was.
Speaker 7 (37:40):
He was so damn cocky and good. I know, he
he really was. I love my plays worked better with
I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeahs Nick Saban says, yeah, it almost plays better when
I get a great pass rush from a five star guy.
Speaker 7 (37:58):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Finally, I there's a lot of reasons I like NIL.
One of the reasons I like it is because I
like kids having a little money and before they have
a lot of money, because a lot of athletes don't
have it. So I like a guy having a couple
hundred thousand and maybe blown it on a close and
(38:19):
before he gets twenty million. And I do think it's
instructive that before you get you know, it used to
be no money college, you make a fortune. And I
think that's tough on anybody, regardless of your background. Is
have you found there are some things with NIL that
that I think it's keeping more kids in college.
Speaker 3 (38:39):
I like college basketball over G League.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
But are there things about NIL beyond just a kid
making money that you think are instructive or you like
about it?
Speaker 7 (38:50):
Well, it is what it is, and so we should
put our arms around it and figure out how to
make it the very very best. I will say that
one of the things you just mentioned, it's not right
with all all these kids where you make a lot
of money now and then you're going to make a
lot of money later. Most of the kids. Remember, there's
(39:12):
there's not as many are going to make it into
the MBA are going to be making more money in
college than they will after college. And that's the thing. Yeah,
I mean their kids make There are a lot of
kids making seven figures now, not all if you've counted
(39:34):
all those kids up around the country making half a
million to three or four million, depending on the school.
And there are a lot of kids and they're you know,
what's the lottery. We got fourteen guys there. The first
round has thirty picks, and so they're going to be
(39:55):
guys who there are kids now, there are kids that
have not been invited to the combine who are making
seven figures last year in college. You know, so you're
going to have to deal with that. However, if they're smart,
they have a right to make that money, just so
(40:16):
they use it wisely and they're able to transition to
the next phase of their playing career.
Speaker 10 (40:23):
You know.
Speaker 7 (40:24):
Uh, the guys who are lottery picks that they don't
that's the normal thing. That's the normal thing. But it's
all changed, Colin. It's it's changed, and it doesn't mean
that it's bad. It just means that we have to
get better control over it and make sure make sure
that these kids are well taken care of. You know
(40:46):
right now, if you're a college coach at a high
level program, you know you're you're dealing more with agents
than you are with coaches, and that's why you have
general managers and it's run like a professional team, except
there are no contracts, which that might change depending on
(41:09):
where to how this sol is going. But it's just
in a state of flux right now. But God blessed,
the kids should make as much as they can. They
should transfer just like any other student, whenever they want.
But that's going to run out, and hopefully when it
(41:29):
runs out in college, they're able to go to a
level of playing basketball that is really good for them.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Coach k forty two years ambassad now in the speaking circuit.
Love to hear some of his stories. Nobody's ever won
more basketball games and men's basketball, and that is saying something.
There's been unbelievable coaches. You can turn the TV on
every night. It can be Rick Carlisle or Chris Finch.
There are great coaches everywhere. My buddy Tom Izzo, Basketball's
(41:58):
got great coaches everyoney And you're at the very top
of that coach, and I appreciate you stopping by.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (42:04):
No, I've always enjoyed being on and thanks for not
forgetting me. Yeah, that was you know, I don't even
know why I said that. I shouldn't have said that.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
I liked it. He listen erased that you're you're.
Speaker 7 (42:24):
You're capable of doing anything. Erased.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
That just go right into the ether. Nobody heard but
you and me. That's it. That's the only people that
heard it.
Speaker 7 (42:32):
All right, all right, good see, thanks for having me out.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
You're at the great Mike Krzyzewski. Yeah, it's uh.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I mean, like I think what it took Mike a
couple of years to embrace one and done.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
But I think with N I L.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
You can complain about stuff, like Rick Carla or Rick
Patino said. You can complain about stuff, or you can
embrace it and try to figure it out. It's like anything.
I mean, I almost look at N I L as
a new tax code. All right, got a new tax code.
An accountant's job is to figure out how to use
it best for his clients. I mean, in the end,
you can you know, I don't like what it is.
(43:08):
It by the way, every year, the wild wild West
will get a little less wild, and everybody will get
their arms around it, and we're going to be okay, Nick, Right,
Coach K good guest today. As I get ready to
get on a plane with a few others and head
to a beautiful city, some of us are staying behind.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Others are taking the big swing.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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