May 27, 2025 • 42 mins
Colin points out the major difference between the NBA's MVP Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and the potential "Face of the League" Anthony Edwards as the Thunder take a commanding 3-1 lead in their Western Conference Finals series against the Timberwolves. He reacts to recent comments from Aaron Rodgers about potentially retiring from the NFL and why he doesn't rank as high in the all-time quarterback discussion as you might think. He also explains why people need to stop criticizing USC for not committing to their rivalry game with Notre Dame and why modern college football is similar to AI and it's time for people to adapt
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Here we go. It is a Tuesday. We are live.
It is the Herd. Wherever you may be, however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
Nick Right one hour, Jamak. There is something to be
said about consistency. And I thought I thought Minnesota gave
(00:47):
it everything they had. Minnesota actually Jmac won the box score,
field goal percentage, three point percentage, assists, rebounds, fast breakpoints,
points in the paint all Minnesota. Oklahoma City won the game.
Is this gonna be a coronation? Is that we're doing it?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Just?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Hey, okay, see's the best.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
They're gonna start a dynasty, SGA for president and this
is what we're doing today.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, let's get down to what is the difference in
the series. They're both led by a significant talent at guard.
The two best players in the series are SGA for
OKC and ANT for Minnesota. Ant has more flash, he's
more athletically dynamic, he's more vertical. We kind of want
(01:30):
him to be MVP. SGA is the MVP, and you
get the same game every night. That's why Oklahoma City
in these late game clutch time stretches, is very very good.
SGA scored less than twenty points one time in the
regular season and fifteen times. And they're both the centerpiece
(01:52):
of the offense. And part of it is ANT is
twenty three and SGA is twenty six and isn't a
refined SGA is more focused, more refined, more consistent. You
know what you get. He doesn't fall out of his
game regardless of what you throw at him. He makes
great decisions. He's older, the foots on the accelerator. SGA
(02:15):
averaged thirty three a game. Why because he mostly scored
thirty three a game and averaged twenty eight a game
thirty nine to one night, twenty two the next night.
That's what his game is. It takes a while. I
mean Tom Cruise is obsessed with movie making later in life.
Last six films, five films. Tom Cruise is realized. I'm
(02:37):
an action star. No more Rock of Ages, no more
Eyes Wide Shot, no more Vanilla Sky. I do action movies.
The more I run, the more people go watch. And
that's what he is, and that is great. Older athletes
could be a quarterback, could be a point guard. They're
(02:59):
more consistent. You don't get the highs and the lows. Sga,
I mean, aunt still has volatility to his game. Sga
is oatmeal for breakfast. He's a blt for lunch, and
those puppies last forever. All this criticism of Sga is laughable.
The guy can hit freeze, great ball handler, uses his
(03:22):
length brilliantly, can hit mid range. There was a play,
I think it was in the second quarter where he
bodied a guy a foot tall or Rudy Gobert, and
used the left hand, his off hand to score off
the glass. It was an incredible move. But he wasn't
dunking over anybody. He was using his body and using
his length. And that's what he does. And it's not
(03:42):
SGA's job to entertain us. That's not his job. This
whole free throw merchant. He averages eight point eight free
throws a game as an MVP. I went and looked
this morning at Lebron's MVP seasons. You know what, he
averaged eight free throws a game. Be honest, this is
about SGA's game. Isn't fun And the media and the
(04:04):
fans they prefer a Westbrook or a Derrick Rose, or
a Stevie Francis or a Marberry or a John Waller
and iverson. Those are fun and they're dynamic, So his aunt,
SGA is not. He's just consistently great. The tool belt
is completely full. I see a pro. It's like the
(04:24):
quarterback who stepped to the line and is great at
pre snap. He's done his homework. This guy has a
left hand, a right hand, range, ball handling, consistency machine.
And talk about a guy that uses his length. Yesterday,
SGA passed Michael Jordan for the most thirty point games
in the season in which you were the MVP. And
(04:46):
his scoring isn't just about him. The thunder are now
thirteen and one this season. When he scores forty plus points,
that wasn't the case with Kobe. Sometimes with Kobe, the
more he scored, the less everybody else touched it and
was involved his scoring connects with winning and the whole
(05:07):
free throw merchant thing. You just don't like what it
looks like. I understand it's not flashy, it's not cool,
but it wins and it's consistent. And here's sga after.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I tried not to worry too much about scoring or
making plays or whatever it was. I tried to just
like lose myself in the competition, be aggressive, pick my spots,
and he.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Does pick his spots. Series is now over. It's three
to one, but it's over. Okay, So I thought this
was interesting. I have said this is the hill I'm
gonna die on that. Shadeur Sanders, over the course of
the next ten months, will be the starting quarterback for
the Cleveland Browns. I thought he was underdrafted. I don't
(05:54):
think he's John Elway. I don't think he's Peyton Manning
or even Eli. But I think he's the best quarterback
they have. But it'll just take him time. And I
think he's a good kid. I buy a large good kid.
But he said something yesterday to Cleveland dot Com. He said,
ninety nine percent of the online scrutiny is because of
my dad, and he is exactly right. That's why it
(06:17):
was really a mistake when Dad went on shows and
said things like this, have you told him privately who
you would like for him to play for? It's not
like that. It's not like who I would like for
him to play for.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It's a couple teams that I won't allow him to
play for.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So it's not like that. But this is my profession.
I know what's behind the curtain. We ain't got to
get back there for me to understand what's behind the
curtains and was not prominent for my son. I'm not
doing it, man. And if he doesn't listen to you,
who Yeah, bad NFL owners see that. GMC clips of
(06:59):
that and they're like, no, thanks, Well what about John Elway?
His dad wasn't on TV telling teams don't draft my son. Okay,
and John Elway is the greatest quarterback prospect out of
college ever to this day. Ever, the more talent, the
more leverage in every walk of life. Watching the NFL
(07:22):
Draft this year on both ESPN and the NFL Network
was maddening. I can't understand why he's dropping. What in
the world is happening, Dad is happening. That's why I
like the tact that arch Manning and his family's doing.
They're staying in the shadows. That's where all the real
power is in life. Get out in the sun and
(07:42):
get burned. Dion was in the sun. Deon spent too
much time on television. Talking doesn't mean Deon's a bad
Guy's a great recruiter. He's done wonderful things for Colorado.
He's an all time great player. But I have said
this over and over and I will repeat it. Dads,
stop talking. Nobody cares. Quarterback dad has become pageant. Mom,
(08:06):
your heart is in the right place, you have good intent.
You are hurting your sons. Niko Iamaliava. Remember that Tennessee.
He cost his son millions of dollars and now he's
at a second term, second tier college football program instead
of the Tennessee volunteers. So it's this is a cautionary tale.
The NFL controls television networks. It's the only sport that
(08:30):
tells the networks what they will pay for the rights
and then has the right mid contract to step in
and change it. Yeah, they're not going to have dads
tell them where their son's going to play. And so
this is not I understand the devotion, the love and
(08:52):
the fifteen years you've put into your son. Pageant mom,
quarterback dad. But he's got it right, Chadur's got it right.
It's dad, it's Pops. He got in the way. And
I also understand the heart and affection and the loyalty
of the dads, like I get it. I've said this
before to people. I am, I think I am. I
(09:12):
can be really objective about everything in the world. Accept
my kids. I can be objective. I think mostly about
my wife, about my life, about my career, about not
my kids. It's just different, and I understand it's tough,
but I like that Shadu or knows it's kind of pops.
(09:32):
And we'll see it more and more and more and more.
And I know, I hear. What about Eli Manning? A
Eli Manning was a better prospect. Also, his brother was
in the league as an MVP at the same position,
and oh yeah, his dad had you been a brilliantly talented,
albeit in a horrible franchise quarterback. The Manning's a royal
(09:54):
family in America, certainly at the quarterback position. And I
don't remember Arch Manning going on TV. They did a
lot of their stuff behind the scenes, which I'm always
okay with. I've just said, stay out of the sun,
you're going to get a sunburn. But on the SBF fifty,
do your maneuvering behind the scenes where people can claim
you said things, but you have culpability, which when you
(10:17):
go on television and exclaim not doing that, we're not
going there. You are talking directly to the people, the companies,
the corporations, the owners and gms who are going to
draft you. And I think it just did not play
well at all, all right, So J Mack, We've got
a lot of things going on and did not play
I mean mostly it was invisible. Also, you know, we
(10:40):
did something yesterday at the end of the show. I
talked to the staff after the show and I said,
I want to work on something tomorrow. Aaron Rodgers on
our show yesterday, I had a really interesting moment where
he was outside talking to a bunch of people. And
I think sometimes you have to be careful about those
sound bites because sometimes it's performative. If you're like outside,
you and I are doing an outside show, you start
playing to the crowd and you say things that you
(11:01):
probably that are in ballist you're kind of performing for
the crowd. But Aaron Rodgers did say something recently to
a group of people that's on tape that hinted to
me that the retirement thing is a greater than fifty
to fifty chance. And we played that bite yesterday and
I want to get to that and other things when
(11:23):
we come back.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
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Speaker 1 (11:32):
App Nick Wright forty five minutes from now. So Anthony
Edwards had one shot in the first quarter, thirteen total
shots in the game, and he said after, you know,
I didn't really get enough shots to judge my game.
Listen Jaden McDaniel's or the Tea Wolves had more shots
(11:53):
than ant. That can't happen. You can't be the face
of the league and get one shot in the first
quarter of the biggest game the playoffs. Can't do it.
Not interested in excuses. Michael may have been getting tackled
by the Pistons. He didn't have one shot quarter, even
when he had good teammates. So because basketball players enter
(12:13):
the NBA at eighteen, nineteen twenty years old. You just
have to wait. There are stages of maturity, and I
think personally and professionally, and I'm kind of waiting for
him to graduate to the adult consistent stage. He was
mostly a non factor last night. So you can take
him out of his game. Everybody knows it. Throw a
bunch of bodies at him and make him make kind
(12:35):
of advanced reads and he's going to struggle. It's a
lot like a young star quarterback who's not great at
pre snap stuff. Like it takes Brady's six seven eight years.
Mahomes admit. The light didn't go on until year three.
So you can just throw a bunch of stuff at Sga.
He's twenty six and he sees it and he can
read it. You can throw anything now at Mahomes. Four
(12:57):
years ago he was a little confused. Right four years ago,
he had to add lib instead of getting pre snat
blitzes out of the way. And so I think I
think sometimes Aunt relies too much on these sensational plays
in his athleticism. And he's great, but he's not consistently
half to half great. And I you know, I'm looking
(13:18):
at some of the numbers this morning. The edit thing
that really hurts is that Oklahoma City's defense is not
only great, it's historically great. It's deep, it's young, it's twitchy,
it's almost collegiate in its energy, and they throw a
bunch of bodies at him and so, but let's defend
Aunt here, Yo kitch at twenty three, that's what Aunt is.
Aunt's twenty three yo Kitchen at twenty three got his
(13:40):
first MVP. Aunt at twenty three played for a losing
team in Oklahoma City. So Michael Jordan in the eighties
before his game was more than just raw scoring. Michael
Jordan was having some really bad halfs and quarters against
the Pistons. Like it happens. It's just in the NFL.
A guy comes in with three four five years experience,
(14:01):
he's got a more refined game. Ants isn't. And so
he talked about his night only thirteen shots after. I
don't really look at it like a struggle.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
I didn't get enough shots to say I struggled, so
that that might be how you guys look at it.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
But yeah, I struggle it. Oh it just I made
it right, pay I.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Guess I urge it. I want to get the ball.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Ktagram put it up there, but if you don't want
to take bad shots and get your team out of rhythm.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So just playing a game the right way? Yeah, I mean,
and Lebron said that I'm playing the game the right way.
But Lebron would end up with thirty four points and
thirteen assists and occasionally pass up big shots because he
was playing the game the right way. Ant's not the
distributor of Lebron, and Lebron wasn't settling for thirteen shots.
(14:45):
You may not have trusted Lebron in his prime at
the free throw line or even when he was young,
but you trusted the productivity, and it's not there. He
is a highly athletic, lot of fun, super dynamic, unlimited ceiling.
But at this we're all kind of waiting and it
will come and it will come soon. But he's not
(15:05):
quite there yet. He's twenty three, SGA's twenty six, and
you can see the difference in consistency.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
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Speaker 1 (15:17):
This is something I find really interesting. So Cam Newton, who,
by the way, I like him as a podcaster more
than I did as a quarterback. I think he's a
really good podcaster. He was fine at quarterback. He was
just a little flashy and too inconsistent, but he's a
good podcaster. He says interesting things. He doubles down on
the criticism of Caleb Williams being entitled. Now boomerasias In
(15:39):
as a former excellent NFL quarterback, got to a Super Bowl,
was an MVP. At one point, Boomrasiasin had called him
on New York Radio, Caleb Williams. He said, you know,
the entitlement is breathtaking, and so Cam Newton said yesterday
it's a strong take, but he's not wrong. We're living
in the golden era of entitlement. So from Cam, it's
(16:00):
kind of funny, but I'm not going to take any
shots whatever. Can we just be totally honest about Kayleb Williams.
If he got Sean Payton as a coach as a rookie,
none of this story would would be here. If he
got a competent offensive staff, this wouldn't be a story.
(16:20):
I do not see entitlement with young quarterbacks, even Shador Sanders.
It's more his dad bow Nicks, Jaden Daniels, Drake May,
Michael Pennix, I'm blown away by how lucky the NFL
is at the focus, the commitment, and the maturity of
all these young quarterbacks. I'm blown away by it. I
(16:41):
certainly wasn't this mature at twenty three years old. You
go look at Mahomes and Allen and Burrow and Lamar
and Herbert and Tua. They're like grown ups in their
early twenties. It's amazing. Yes, Cayleb Williams and his father
were deeply concerned about the Bears his historical offensive ineptitude.
(17:02):
I don't know if you watched the Bears last year,
but they were proven one hundred percent correct on all
of their concerns. That's not called entitlement. That's called doing
your homework, assessing accurately, an assignment, understanding the temperature of
the room. Even the Bears, by firing people through the season, acknowledged,
(17:26):
we're not doing this kid any favors. The Bears acknowledged
by all their firings. It's not the kid, it's the
grown ups around the kid. So I get to regularly
meet these young football players. These quarterbacks are bow Nicks.
I'll meet or a Caleb Williams. I never think of
them as immature and entitled. Ever, in fact, I would
(17:50):
say the last entitled quarterback, and you know who it
is because I said he was undraftable was Johnny Manziel.
I said I wouldn't draft Baker Mayfield, but I didn't
say he was undraftable to the league. I said Baker
needs to grow up. Baker is a top twenty quarterback
since he arrived in this league. He's talented and he's matured.
(18:10):
I didn't think Baker was entitled. He's a hard worker.
Johnny Manziel's the quarterback that was entitled. He now admits
it as he's matured. Johnny Manziel the money signed, didn't
do the homework, not watching film that's entitled. Caleb Williams
and his dad had concerns, and I also think you
have to consider culturally what has happened. Caleb Williams was
(18:35):
our first collegiate nil superstar. He was making more than
everybody on USC staff not named Lincoln Riley. Do you
think at twenty two, if you were making five million
dollars a year, you would always make every day the
best decision. Or maybe Caleb Williams and his dad saw
what Matt stafford went through in Detroit and how it
(18:57):
would have crushed and otherwise brilliant career. Can you imagine
if Stafford went to McVeigh or a Shanahan or an
Andy Reid out of college, we wouldn't now be debating
if he's a top twenty quarterback. Ever, he would be
a top five quarterback. Ever, So where you land matters.
It is not entitlement to be deeply concerned. Now, I
(19:20):
do think, and I know this because I reported a
year ago he and his dad were thinking of figuring
out a way not to go there. But in the end,
Caleb didn't want to push the nuclear option, put his
head down. I'm going to work my way through it.
But I've seen entitled. I've seen entitled, I've seen Johnny Manzil,
(19:42):
I've seen over the top. I just disagree with Boomerosias
and Cam Newton. I regularly get opportunities to meet these
young professional college to professional quarterbacks, even Baker Mayfield, though
I thought he needed to grow up. Baker's a good guy,
hard worker, some real leadership, moxie, and that was a
(20:04):
guy I was critical of. Tim Tebow was a guy
I didn't like his game, but he was mature and
focused and committed. So I don't buy the entitlement thing.
I've seen entitlement. That's not it. I think multiple times
over my career I've said this, We're very lucky. How
(20:25):
often the star of the NFL is a Brady, is
a Manning, is a Mahomes what looks like a Jaden
Daniels Like you'd want him to be your son. You'd
want them to be part of your family. They're so committed,
so driven, despite the fact they're getting ridiculed. Hot takes
(20:47):
the culture of opinion, I don't see the commitment Cam Newton,
though he sees it.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
We are living in the golden era of entitled men
and I hate that for sports as a whole, right,
whether it's the parent or the player. You may not
like the words, but behind what Boomer Assassin is saying
is some truth.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And that's a lot of.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Merit to the thinking of how a lot of guys
who have came through this league are in the league
feel about guys coming into the league.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, I mean, if the culture of the NFL has
always been the league is bigger than any player, including Brady,
Brady left ratings went up far have left ratings went
up like, I do not see football culture in America.
You are coached hard. Basketball culture, AAU culture can be
(21:48):
a little you know, get your thing, get your bag,
get your stuff, a little bit too much for me
and and really great coaches like Kerr have questioned if
AAU makes our basketball players better. But football culture in
America is not about entitlement. It's about putting in the work,
putting in the time, being kind of strangely obsessed. And
I don't see it coming up next Aaron Rodgers, it
(22:12):
sounded like retirement is on the table that's coming up.
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Speaker 3 (23:20):
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Speaker 1 (23:33):
So Matt hasseled back yesterday on our show assured us
that Aaron Rodgers is going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler.
May very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler. I don't know.
He was recently he was doing a Q and A
in front of people Aaron was, And again, when you're
performative in front of people, you may say things that
in the moment gets the crowd worked up. Or I'm
(23:53):
not holding Aaron to every word of a public podcast
or a public talk. People say things, but it does
sound like there's a story out there. I think Aaron
said he would play for ten million dollars. That tells
me that money's not driving him. He also said recently,
I'm not going to play for the Saints. I don't
(24:14):
want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me where he
play place matters. And this sounds like he's not that
far from retirement.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the
what the reason for that is. You know, at the
same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most
of my my favorite players retired as a Niner, So
I understand the cool thing about it. But if I
didn't do it, would that make a difference in how
(24:47):
I'm viewed in the packer's eyes. There's a lot of
love for me and how I feel about the team.
If I do, if I don't, I don't think you
should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they
approached me about it, I probably would.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, Aaron's saying, you know, if they approached me about playing,
I probably would. Well, they have Jordan Love. So you're
saying you'd be a backup. And so you're saying you
would close your career and you're still a starting quarterback
in this league. You've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback.
So you're basically saying, is I'd go be a backup
for Green Bay. Wow, that's something you'd play for ten million.
(25:20):
That's something I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's
something These are your words, But I was saying when
the show ended yesterday, I said, you know, there's two
quarterbacks in the history of great quarterbacks. I've never quite
known what to do with Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers.
Because whereas baseball is about stats, stats are really important
for baseball people and basketball style and culture is really important.
(25:47):
In football, it's about winning big games. That's why Elway,
who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino is
here and Marino's much lower, John got to the big
game more even if he lost it. And to me,
there's always been four or five things when you start
counting everything for the great quarterbacks. I want to know
your Super Bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win
(26:09):
all of them. I'm not looking for six for six.
I want division titles so you at least dominate your division.
You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in
your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I
obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record.
Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them,
but I want you to have some impressive playoff resume stuff.
(26:32):
And I'll count MVPs are a personal award, but they
mean something. It means a high level of play amongst
your peers. I will not count passer rating. Tua and
Jimmy Garoppolo, Deshaun Watson, and Russell Wilson have a significantly
higher passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Josh Allen.
(26:52):
I know Aaron has the best passer rating of all time.
I do not care. Passer rating does not matter. It's
like NBA Coach of the Year Phil Jackson has won.
It's an irrelevant award. I think the people who win
it put the plaque in their garage behind the Rakes
and the Brooms. It just doesn't matter. And passer rating
means nothing to me. MVPs signify amongst your peers. You
(27:20):
are the best that season, so that matters. But when
you look at Marino and Aaron Rodgers, they're not close.
Aaron's been to one super Bowl, had one great playoff run,
eleven and ten in the playoffs division titles. Yes, MVPs impressive,
(27:41):
but what do I do with that? Where do I
put that? Because when you put him in that group
of all time great quarterbacks Brady Montana, Elway, Mahomes, Peyton, Bradshaw,
Farv Aikman, Young, not even Marino matches up. And I've
said this before. Well know, Marino and Aaron are the same,
(28:04):
really talented. You may have the two best releases I've
ever seen esthetically pleasing, but relative to talent, they didn't
win enough. I mean, Dan Marino had Don Shula, arguably
the best coach of all time, still didn't dominate his division,
(28:24):
one great playoff run, and had good teammates. Aaron always
had a good old line, always had an offensive coach.
In much of Aaron's career, the Lions were awful, The
Bears were egregiously bad, and Minnesota was never great, although
they had some great players, they were kind of good.
And yet Kirk Cousins went five hundred the minute he
(28:47):
got into that division against Aaron. So I've never understood
exactly if Aaron retired today. It's again, this is not basketball.
It's not about style, it's not about culture. It's winning
big games. If you think about Aaron Rodgers all time
greatest playoff moments, one jumps out the Jared Cook throw
(29:08):
against Dallas. It may be as good as anything I've
ever seen. But Eli Manning, who I didn't put on
that board, has two of those, David Tyree and Mario
Manningham and he's got two Super Bowls over Brady and Belichick.
Manning's also got what do I do? What do I
do with Eli? He's like Philip Rivers. If Philip Rivers
(29:29):
won Super Bowls? What do I do? So this the thing,
and I've said this with both Marino and Aaron Rodgers.
It's hard to quantify super Bowls, division titles, productivity, winning
big games, iconic moments, they're everything else. I'll give them
(29:50):
the MVPs. Those matter, But I was looking at passer
rating this morning. I just it's nonsense. And this is
and I've always my belief has always been Aaron at
the end of his career played to protect his passer rating.
If he threw an interception or two, he shut it down.
He played to protect that all time number one passer rating.
(30:13):
And it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and
Lamar Jackson. But Peyton Mannings is sixteenth, Kurt Warners is nineteenth,
Josh Allen is twenty third. In fact, Derek Carr and
Josh Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I
can't count that. That can't be a thing if you
don't have If you have one NBA Finals appearance as
(30:36):
a coach, but you've won the Coach of the Year
four times, I'm putting you a below Phil Jackson. I'm sorry,
I got to put your ball.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Phil had Michael Jordan, Doug Collins had him, stan Olbrich
had him well, I mean Phil had Kobe Bryant, so
did Del Harris. I don't want to hear it. His
New York next day may have been a mess. I
don't want to hear it, all right, j Mac. Also,
Nick Wright is on at the top of the hour.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I will, oh, hold, I cannot let some of that slide.
You know, I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the Jets.
He was terrible, he got it, blah blah bh that's right,
But I do have to put in some context, like
Eli Manning was great in two Super Bowl games, two games.
Aaron Rodgers has been great for seasons?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yes, what matters more to you.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
A sixteen game season sample size where he won four
MVPs or a game for Eli he won one Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Well, it's obvious Aaron is rated and I would rate
him higher than Eli Manning as a quarter.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And that's where it gets difficult, because it's like, are
we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough
Super Bowl? Is not winning enough and pumping up Eli
because of you know.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
No off front. I think Eli Manning is absolutely fairly
categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a top
fifteen quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top fifteen quarterback. But
you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime twice
have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't know
he's Philip Rivers, No, he's not so so nobody is
(32:12):
saying I would never insinuate that Aaron's below Eli. So
obviously regular season MVPs and stats and productivity matter a lot.
But again we're talking all time top ten twelve guys.
Everything is something, nothing's everything, but everything is something. So
in my take is with Aaron and Marino, if you're
(32:33):
going to count them up against Brady and Montana and
Elway and Mahomes, and you're gonna get ding for getting
to one super Bowl. So do you have Lway above
Aaron Rodgers? Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, I think yeah.
I don't even again, I grew up. You know, I'm
(32:54):
watching John Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan right like.
I saw him live. I saw John Elway leadership, fourth
quarter comebacks. I think he's one of a short group.
Back our two.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays at noon Eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Here we go, it's hour two and it's a Tuesday.
Nick Wright, five minutes Love in Chicago. It's the Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening,
events for making us part of your day. So j Mac,
I've been on something I think for about I don't
know three weeks or a month. People tell me I'm
getting pushed back. You know, I don't know if I am.
(33:40):
But my take is take.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
I thought it was maybe a supplement of Sunday.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
No, it's it's I'm not a big tradition guy. I
didn't go to church as a kid, and a lot
of people did so I've never been a big romantic
about sports. So I saw something interesting this morning, and
with that, I would love to introduce America to a
pillar of decency, a standard of honesty and truth telling
(34:07):
that is unrivaled in America. Right the La Times, who
now becomes the second media juggernaut in America, me being
the other that thinks the Notre Dame USC rivalry isn't
the beginning in the end of college football. It's just
another cool game. The La Times, in one of their graphs, said,
(34:33):
this morning us he is choosing to take the cold,
calculated route when it comes to this quandary whether to
play Notre Dame or not. I understand why Why should
the Trojans be expected to carry the water for the
soul of college football at the cost of their own
playoff odds? While the rest of the sports leaders, USC's
own included, have made clear how much tradition really actually
(34:53):
means to them. Yeah, the pac twow folded. You can
pay high school players. Stop with this almost hackneyed sentimentality.
The world changes. Everything else is changing. You can deny
AI is going to change the world, but as you
do it just auto corrected a text. And I know
(35:16):
your grandma would prefer a letter so at Graham's, but
they're going to get an emoji in FaceTime. That's the
world we live in. Yeah, I know. Once USC played
in a conference that had games against cal and Arizona
and Arizona State and Stanford, which often is awful and
sometimes is interesting, and Washington State and Oregon State, and
(35:36):
the only power consistently was Oregon. But now Oregon joined them,
and now they play Penn State and Michigan and Ohio State.
In fact, the three teams from the West that join them, UCLA, Oregon,
and Washington are their biggest toughest rivals, two of them
cold weather games. So yeah, USC has said, well play
(36:00):
the game, but on our terms early where it's sunny,
and I don't blame them. Lincoln Riley is paid to
get to the playoffs, not cling to tradition. And I
said this yesterday. A November roadie in South Bend, Indiana
(36:20):
is not attractive when the following week after going to
South Bend, flying back to LA with nineteen year olds
flying back to Philadelphia, flying back home, you still have
a tournament, a playoff to be in potentially. So it's
a different bomb game and college football has always had.
(36:41):
I've looked at the demographics four years. It has an
older fan base and older people in America generally cling
to tradition. I get it. The number one question I'm asked.
I was asked on the train this morning, the number
one question I get asked, what do you make of
college sports? And my take is exchanging so's everything. AI
is going to change medicine, it's changing law. He was
(37:04):
an attorney. It's changing everything, So it can change college football.
I think it's changing the NIL is changing college basketball
for the better. You just have to understand now.
Speaker 8 (37:14):
Is.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
The college football is now seventy five percent of professional model,
and it's not going backwards. Once you introduce big money
into anything, it doesn't go backwards, it doesn't retreat. And
so if USC plays Notre Dame great, but USC doesn't
need Notre Dame. Notre Dame refusing to go in a
true conference needs USC. So the pendulum at this time
(37:39):
in negotiations has swung to USC. I know it's not valiant,
as the La Times also pointed out, it doesn't show
great courage or it's not a valiant move, but it
makes sense. Lincoln's paid to get to the playoff, not
to cling the games that frankly the biggest rating for
college football. I think it was Texas and Georgia. It
(38:02):
wasn't Texas and Oklahoma. Here's Lincoln Riley on the changes
that are happening to a sport.
Speaker 9 (38:09):
There are some changes that we've all just got to
accept because it's just part of it right now. Obviously
that continues to move and we'll see out evolves. But
I think any door that closes, well, there's also a new,
really exciting door that's getting opened, and we've got to
I think we can still love what was in the past,
but let's don't miss that there's some like pretty cool
(38:32):
things happening right in front of our face right now
that we're kind of all in the forefront of.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
If you're telling me usc is playing Penn State tomorrow.
I'm watching, and Michigan and Ohio State, and Oregon and
Georgia and Texas I'm watching. I don't think it's worth
sacrificing another cold weather roady in November to appeal to traditionalists.
(38:57):
You're not paid for courage, You're paid for winning. That's
the bottom line.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I was thinking about this, Jmac. We started the hour
talking about this, and I was thinking about if you
really do think about players that played different I'm not
talking about just scoring, players that are exhilarating to watch
in the history of the NBA, and I wrote these down.
These were first top of mind. I'm not talking about
just scores. Alex English led the NBA and scoring in
(39:30):
the eighties, right. I loved him, but he wasn't exhilarating.
I don't think we've had as many as you think,
Doctor J. David Thompson, Michael Jordan, Magic Bird, Lebron's Staff,
Dominique Ant, Clyde Drexler are the ones that just jump
out to me like they just literally they were just
more vertical players. I would say, there are far more
(39:51):
SGAs and Duncan's and yokay, let me put Kobe in there,
my bad. I'll put Kobe and Shack. I'm Kobe and Shack,
my bad. So I'm so Kobe and Shaq. Charles Barkley
was Let me tell Charles Barkley in there. Okay, let
me do this real quick, j Mac. Okay, And I'm
not saying I'm not missing some one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven,
(40:16):
twelve players that I consider just it play. I mean
the round amount of rebound Barkley grabbing the rebound coast
to coast, jamming it through. But the league's probably had
two to three times out of guys that are just proficient.
They score a lot, they're good players, They're not dynamic.
We've had more SGAs than we've had ants. Would you
(40:37):
agree with that?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
If Carl the Mailman Malone in there.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
No, I thought his game was boring. I never thought
he was a captivating.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Player, never a Jazz fan at all.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Like Sun Kemp the rain Man. Right, Okay, there's another one.
Okay on dude, Okay, No, that's good. That's good call
on that good get So now we're at thirty. You
didn't see David Thompson. He was insane, Okay, so Camp
puts us at thirteen. I mean players that literally you
could turn the sound down and go wt H. That
is just different than anything I've ever seen. But by
(41:06):
and large, to just make the NBA. Even if you're
a proficient scorer, it doesn't matter if you're Rick Berry,
Bernard King, it doesn't matter. Like Kevin McHale a team
Duncan Malone, like most of the great players are not
like jaw dropping right there. They're what we've talked about
(41:28):
this before. In the NFL, ninety five percent of what
Mahomes does is like twelve yard drag routes and about
three three times a game Mahomes goes whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa. But Michael Jordan, he was a mid range specialist.
You always see like the same twenty five highlights. Jordan
was great. Nobody disputes that. But Michael was the master
(41:51):
of getting a bucket and getting a stop. Mahomes is
the master John Elway was before him of like the
two minute drill, making the great escape, the great throw.
But by and large, pro sports at its core is fundamental, circumstantial.
Do the basics, don't miss the layups, and Kemp is
(42:11):
a good call on that. That puts us at thirteen
player thirteen players that played different. Okay, what about it?
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Like a Derek Rose because he was awesomely skilled but
also a human highlight reel who would just explode and
dunk and man, if Derek Rose didn't have the injuries,
I'll just tell you right now, I think Derick Rose
will be more highly thought of as a superstar than
SGA will just because Rose his connection to Chicago.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I could throw a Rose in that would get us
to fourteen. That's a good call. Derek was spectactical.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Don't remember his first playoff game, his first playoff series
against the Celtics.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Remember that he was like unstoppable? Though, who is this guy? Well, well,
if it wasn't for weight and injuries, I think you
could put Zion in there. I think he plays different
than anybody.
Thanks for listening to the Best of the Herd podcast.
Be sure to catch us live every weekday on Fox
Sports Radio in noon to three Eastern nine am to
noone Pacific. Find your local station for The Herd at
Fox Sports Radio dot com, or stream us live every
day on the iHeartRadio app by searching Fox Sports Radio
or FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This is the Best of the Herd with Colin Cowver
on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Here we go. It is a Tuesday. We are live.
It is the Herd. Wherever you may be, however you
may be listening. Thanks for making us part of your day.
Nick Right one hour, Jamak. There is something to be
said about consistency. And I thought I thought Minnesota gave
(00:47):
it everything they had. Minnesota actually Jmac won the box score,
field goal percentage, three point percentage, assists, rebounds, fast breakpoints,
points in the paint all Minnesota. Oklahoma City won the game.
Is this gonna be a coronation? Is that we're doing it?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Just?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Hey, okay, see's the best.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
They're gonna start a dynasty, SGA for president and this
is what we're doing today.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, let's get down to what is the difference in
the series. They're both led by a significant talent at guard.
The two best players in the series are SGA for
OKC and ANT for Minnesota. Ant has more flash, he's
more athletically dynamic, he's more vertical. We kind of want
(01:30):
him to be MVP. SGA is the MVP, and you
get the same game every night. That's why Oklahoma City
in these late game clutch time stretches, is very very good.
SGA scored less than twenty points one time in the
regular season and fifteen times. And they're both the centerpiece
(01:52):
of the offense. And part of it is ANT is
twenty three and SGA is twenty six and isn't a
refined SGA is more focused, more refined, more consistent. You
know what you get. He doesn't fall out of his
game regardless of what you throw at him. He makes
great decisions. He's older, the foots on the accelerator. SGA
(02:15):
averaged thirty three a game. Why because he mostly scored
thirty three a game and averaged twenty eight a game
thirty nine to one night, twenty two the next night.
That's what his game is. It takes a while. I
mean Tom Cruise is obsessed with movie making later in life.
Last six films, five films. Tom Cruise is realized. I'm
(02:37):
an action star. No more Rock of Ages, no more
Eyes Wide Shot, no more Vanilla Sky. I do action movies.
The more I run, the more people go watch. And
that's what he is, and that is great. Older athletes
could be a quarterback, could be a point guard. They're
(02:59):
more consistent. You don't get the highs and the lows. Sga,
I mean, aunt still has volatility to his game. Sga
is oatmeal for breakfast. He's a blt for lunch, and
those puppies last forever. All this criticism of Sga is laughable.
The guy can hit freeze, great ball handler, uses his
(03:22):
length brilliantly, can hit mid range. There was a play,
I think it was in the second quarter where he
bodied a guy a foot tall or Rudy Gobert, and
used the left hand, his off hand to score off
the glass. It was an incredible move. But he wasn't
dunking over anybody. He was using his body and using
his length. And that's what he does. And it's not
(03:42):
SGA's job to entertain us. That's not his job. This
whole free throw merchant. He averages eight point eight free
throws a game as an MVP. I went and looked
this morning at Lebron's MVP seasons. You know what, he
averaged eight free throws a game. Be honest, this is
about SGA's game. Isn't fun And the media and the
(04:04):
fans they prefer a Westbrook or a Derrick Rose, or
a Stevie Francis or a Marberry or a John Waller
and iverson. Those are fun and they're dynamic, So his aunt,
SGA is not. He's just consistently great. The tool belt
is completely full. I see a pro. It's like the
(04:24):
quarterback who stepped to the line and is great at
pre snap. He's done his homework. This guy has a
left hand, a right hand, range, ball handling, consistency machine.
And talk about a guy that uses his length. Yesterday,
SGA passed Michael Jordan for the most thirty point games
in the season in which you were the MVP. And
(04:46):
his scoring isn't just about him. The thunder are now
thirteen and one this season. When he scores forty plus points,
that wasn't the case with Kobe. Sometimes with Kobe, the
more he scored, the less everybody else touched it and
was involved his scoring connects with winning and the whole
(05:07):
free throw merchant thing. You just don't like what it
looks like. I understand it's not flashy, it's not cool,
but it wins and it's consistent. And here's sga after.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
I tried not to worry too much about scoring or
making plays or whatever it was. I tried to just
like lose myself in the competition, be aggressive, pick my spots,
and he.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Does pick his spots. Series is now over. It's three
to one, but it's over. Okay, So I thought this
was interesting. I have said this is the hill I'm
gonna die on that. Shadeur Sanders, over the course of
the next ten months, will be the starting quarterback for
the Cleveland Browns. I thought he was underdrafted. I don't
(05:54):
think he's John Elway. I don't think he's Peyton Manning
or even Eli. But I think he's the best quarterback
they have. But it'll just take him time. And I
think he's a good kid. I buy a large good kid.
But he said something yesterday to Cleveland dot Com. He said,
ninety nine percent of the online scrutiny is because of
my dad, and he is exactly right. That's why it
(06:17):
was really a mistake when Dad went on shows and
said things like this, have you told him privately who
you would like for him to play for? It's not
like that. It's not like who I would like for
him to play for.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
It's a couple teams that I won't allow him to
play for.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
So it's not like that. But this is my profession.
I know what's behind the curtain. We ain't got to
get back there for me to understand what's behind the
curtains and was not prominent for my son. I'm not
doing it, man. And if he doesn't listen to you,
who Yeah, bad NFL owners see that. GMC clips of
(06:59):
that and they're like, no, thanks, Well what about John Elway?
His dad wasn't on TV telling teams don't draft my son. Okay,
and John Elway is the greatest quarterback prospect out of
college ever to this day. Ever, the more talent, the
more leverage in every walk of life. Watching the NFL
(07:22):
Draft this year on both ESPN and the NFL Network
was maddening. I can't understand why he's dropping. What in
the world is happening, Dad is happening. That's why I
like the tact that arch Manning and his family's doing.
They're staying in the shadows. That's where all the real
power is in life. Get out in the sun and
(07:42):
get burned. Dion was in the sun. Deon spent too
much time on television. Talking doesn't mean Deon's a bad
Guy's a great recruiter. He's done wonderful things for Colorado.
He's an all time great player. But I have said
this over and over and I will repeat it. Dads,
stop talking. Nobody cares. Quarterback dad has become pageant. Mom,
(08:06):
your heart is in the right place, you have good intent.
You are hurting your sons. Niko Iamaliava. Remember that Tennessee.
He cost his son millions of dollars and now he's
at a second term, second tier college football program instead
of the Tennessee volunteers. So it's this is a cautionary tale.
The NFL controls television networks. It's the only sport that
(08:30):
tells the networks what they will pay for the rights
and then has the right mid contract to step in
and change it. Yeah, they're not going to have dads
tell them where their son's going to play. And so
this is not I understand the devotion, the love and
(08:52):
the fifteen years you've put into your son. Pageant mom,
quarterback dad. But he's got it right, Chadur's got it right.
It's dad, it's Pops. He got in the way. And
I also understand the heart and affection and the loyalty
of the dads, like I get it. I've said this
before to people. I am, I think I am. I
(09:12):
can be really objective about everything in the world. Accept
my kids. I can be objective. I think mostly about
my wife, about my life, about my career, about not
my kids. It's just different, and I understand it's tough,
but I like that Shadu or knows it's kind of pops.
(09:32):
And we'll see it more and more and more and more.
And I know, I hear. What about Eli Manning? A
Eli Manning was a better prospect. Also, his brother was
in the league as an MVP at the same position,
and oh yeah, his dad had you been a brilliantly talented,
albeit in a horrible franchise quarterback. The Manning's a royal
(09:54):
family in America, certainly at the quarterback position. And I
don't remember Arch Manning going on TV. They did a
lot of their stuff behind the scenes, which I'm always
okay with. I've just said, stay out of the sun,
you're going to get a sunburn. But on the SBF fifty,
do your maneuvering behind the scenes where people can claim
you said things, but you have culpability, which when you
(10:17):
go on television and exclaim not doing that, we're not
going there. You are talking directly to the people, the companies,
the corporations, the owners and gms who are going to
draft you. And I think it just did not play
well at all, all right, So J Mack, We've got
a lot of things going on and did not play
I mean mostly it was invisible. Also, you know, we
(10:40):
did something yesterday at the end of the show. I
talked to the staff after the show and I said,
I want to work on something tomorrow. Aaron Rodgers on
our show yesterday, I had a really interesting moment where
he was outside talking to a bunch of people. And
I think sometimes you have to be careful about those
sound bites because sometimes it's performative. If you're like outside,
you and I are doing an outside show, you start
playing to the crowd and you say things that you
(11:01):
probably that are in ballist you're kind of performing for
the crowd. But Aaron Rodgers did say something recently to
a group of people that's on tape that hinted to
me that the retirement thing is a greater than fifty
to fifty chance. And we played that bite yesterday and
I want to get to that and other things when
(11:23):
we come back.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern non am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
FS one and the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
App Nick Wright forty five minutes from now. So Anthony
Edwards had one shot in the first quarter, thirteen total
shots in the game, and he said after, you know,
I didn't really get enough shots to judge my game.
Listen Jaden McDaniel's or the Tea Wolves had more shots
(11:53):
than ant. That can't happen. You can't be the face
of the league and get one shot in the first
quarter of the biggest game the playoffs. Can't do it.
Not interested in excuses. Michael may have been getting tackled
by the Pistons. He didn't have one shot quarter, even
when he had good teammates. So because basketball players enter
(12:13):
the NBA at eighteen, nineteen twenty years old. You just
have to wait. There are stages of maturity, and I
think personally and professionally, and I'm kind of waiting for
him to graduate to the adult consistent stage. He was
mostly a non factor last night. So you can take
him out of his game. Everybody knows it. Throw a
bunch of bodies at him and make him make kind
(12:35):
of advanced reads and he's going to struggle. It's a
lot like a young star quarterback who's not great at
pre snap stuff. Like it takes Brady's six seven eight years.
Mahomes admit. The light didn't go on until year three.
So you can just throw a bunch of stuff at Sga.
He's twenty six and he sees it and he can
read it. You can throw anything now at Mahomes. Four
(12:57):
years ago he was a little confused. Right four years ago,
he had to add lib instead of getting pre snat
blitzes out of the way. And so I think I
think sometimes Aunt relies too much on these sensational plays
in his athleticism. And he's great, but he's not consistently
half to half great. And I you know, I'm looking
(13:18):
at some of the numbers this morning. The edit thing
that really hurts is that Oklahoma City's defense is not
only great, it's historically great. It's deep, it's young, it's twitchy,
it's almost collegiate in its energy, and they throw a
bunch of bodies at him and so, but let's defend
Aunt here, Yo kitch at twenty three, that's what Aunt is.
Aunt's twenty three yo Kitchen at twenty three got his
(13:40):
first MVP. Aunt at twenty three played for a losing
team in Oklahoma City. So Michael Jordan in the eighties
before his game was more than just raw scoring. Michael
Jordan was having some really bad halfs and quarters against
the Pistons. Like it happens. It's just in the NFL.
A guy comes in with three four five years experience,
(14:01):
he's got a more refined game. Ants isn't. And so
he talked about his night only thirteen shots after. I
don't really look at it like a struggle.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
I didn't get enough shots to say I struggled, so
that that might be how you guys look at it.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
But yeah, I struggle it. Oh it just I made
it right, pay I.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Guess I urge it. I want to get the ball.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
Ktagram put it up there, but if you don't want
to take bad shots and get your team out of rhythm.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
So just playing a game the right way? Yeah, I mean,
and Lebron said that I'm playing the game the right way.
But Lebron would end up with thirty four points and
thirteen assists and occasionally pass up big shots because he
was playing the game the right way. Ant's not the
distributor of Lebron, and Lebron wasn't settling for thirteen shots.
(14:45):
You may not have trusted Lebron in his prime at
the free throw line or even when he was young,
but you trusted the productivity, and it's not there. He
is a highly athletic, lot of fun, super dynamic, unlimited ceiling.
But at this we're all kind of waiting and it
will come and it will come soon. But he's not
(15:05):
quite there yet. He's twenty three, SGA's twenty six, and
you can see the difference in consistency.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Be sure to catch live editions of the Herd weekdays
and noon Easter not a Empacific.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
This is something I find really interesting. So Cam Newton, who,
by the way, I like him as a podcaster more
than I did as a quarterback. I think he's a
really good podcaster. He was fine at quarterback. He was
just a little flashy and too inconsistent, but he's a
good podcaster. He says interesting things. He doubles down on
the criticism of Caleb Williams being entitled. Now boomerasias In
(15:39):
as a former excellent NFL quarterback, got to a Super Bowl,
was an MVP. At one point, Boomrasiasin had called him
on New York Radio, Caleb Williams. He said, you know,
the entitlement is breathtaking, and so Cam Newton said yesterday
it's a strong take, but he's not wrong. We're living
in the golden era of entitlement. So from Cam, it's
(16:00):
kind of funny, but I'm not going to take any
shots whatever. Can we just be totally honest about Kayleb Williams.
If he got Sean Payton as a coach as a rookie,
none of this story would would be here. If he
got a competent offensive staff, this wouldn't be a story.
(16:20):
I do not see entitlement with young quarterbacks, even Shador Sanders.
It's more his dad bow Nicks, Jaden Daniels, Drake May,
Michael Pennix, I'm blown away by how lucky the NFL
is at the focus, the commitment, and the maturity of
all these young quarterbacks. I'm blown away by it. I
(16:41):
certainly wasn't this mature at twenty three years old. You
go look at Mahomes and Allen and Burrow and Lamar
and Herbert and Tua. They're like grown ups in their
early twenties. It's amazing. Yes, Cayleb Williams and his father
were deeply concerned about the Bears his historical offensive ineptitude.
(17:02):
I don't know if you watched the Bears last year,
but they were proven one hundred percent correct on all
of their concerns. That's not called entitlement. That's called doing
your homework, assessing accurately, an assignment, understanding the temperature of
the room. Even the Bears, by firing people through the season, acknowledged,
(17:26):
we're not doing this kid any favors. The Bears acknowledged
by all their firings. It's not the kid, it's the
grown ups around the kid. So I get to regularly
meet these young football players. These quarterbacks are bow Nicks.
I'll meet or a Caleb Williams. I never think of
them as immature and entitled. Ever, in fact, I would
(17:50):
say the last entitled quarterback, and you know who it
is because I said he was undraftable was Johnny Manziel.
I said I wouldn't draft Baker Mayfield, but I didn't
say he was undraftable to the league. I said Baker
needs to grow up. Baker is a top twenty quarterback
since he arrived in this league. He's talented and he's matured.
(18:10):
I didn't think Baker was entitled. He's a hard worker.
Johnny Manziel's the quarterback that was entitled. He now admits
it as he's matured. Johnny Manziel the money signed, didn't
do the homework, not watching film that's entitled. Caleb Williams
and his dad had concerns, and I also think you
have to consider culturally what has happened. Caleb Williams was
(18:35):
our first collegiate nil superstar. He was making more than
everybody on USC staff not named Lincoln Riley. Do you
think at twenty two, if you were making five million
dollars a year, you would always make every day the
best decision. Or maybe Caleb Williams and his dad saw
what Matt stafford went through in Detroit and how it
(18:57):
would have crushed and otherwise brilliant career. Can you imagine
if Stafford went to McVeigh or a Shanahan or an
Andy Reid out of college, we wouldn't now be debating
if he's a top twenty quarterback. Ever, he would be
a top five quarterback. Ever, So where you land matters.
It is not entitlement to be deeply concerned. Now, I
(19:20):
do think, and I know this because I reported a
year ago he and his dad were thinking of figuring
out a way not to go there. But in the end,
Caleb didn't want to push the nuclear option, put his
head down. I'm going to work my way through it.
But I've seen entitled. I've seen entitled, I've seen Johnny Manzil,
(19:42):
I've seen over the top. I just disagree with Boomerosias
and Cam Newton. I regularly get opportunities to meet these
young professional college to professional quarterbacks, even Baker Mayfield, though
I thought he needed to grow up. Baker's a good guy,
hard worker, some real leadership, moxie, and that was a
(20:04):
guy I was critical of. Tim Tebow was a guy
I didn't like his game, but he was mature and
focused and committed. So I don't buy the entitlement thing.
I've seen entitlement. That's not it. I think multiple times
over my career I've said this, We're very lucky. How
(20:25):
often the star of the NFL is a Brady, is
a Manning, is a Mahomes what looks like a Jaden
Daniels Like you'd want him to be your son. You'd
want them to be part of your family. They're so committed,
so driven, despite the fact they're getting ridiculed. Hot takes
(20:47):
the culture of opinion, I don't see the commitment Cam Newton,
though he sees it.
Speaker 5 (20:55):
We are living in the golden era of entitled men
and I hate that for sports as a whole, right,
whether it's the parent or the player. You may not
like the words, but behind what Boomer Assassin is saying
is some truth.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
And that's a lot of.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Merit to the thinking of how a lot of guys
who have came through this league are in the league
feel about guys coming into the league.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, I mean, if the culture of the NFL has
always been the league is bigger than any player, including Brady,
Brady left ratings went up far have left ratings went
up like, I do not see football culture in America.
You are coached hard. Basketball culture, AAU culture can be
(21:48):
a little you know, get your thing, get your bag,
get your stuff, a little bit too much for me
and and really great coaches like Kerr have questioned if
AAU makes our basketball players better. But football culture in
America is not about entitlement. It's about putting in the work,
putting in the time, being kind of strangely obsessed. And
I don't see it coming up next Aaron Rodgers, it
(22:12):
sounded like retirement is on the table that's coming up.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Eastern nan am Pacific.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
Hey, Steve Covino and I'm Rich David and together we're
Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 7 (22:28):
You could catch us weekdays from five to seven pm
Eastern two to four Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and
of course the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 6 (22:35):
Why should you listen to Covino and Rich.
Speaker 7 (22:37):
We talk about everything life, sports, relationships, what's going on
in the world.
Speaker 6 (22:41):
We have a lot of fun talking about the stories
behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture.
Stories that well other shows don't seem to have the
time to discuss.
Speaker 7 (22:50):
And the fact that we've been friends for the last
twenty years and still work together, I mean that says
something right.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
So check us out. We like to get you involved too,
take your phone calls, chop it up. As they say,
I'd say, the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio,
maybe the.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Most interactive show on planetar.
Speaker 6 (23:04):
Be sure to check out Cavino and Rich live on
Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app from five to
seven pm Eastern two to four Pacific, And if you
miss any of the live show, just search kobeen on
Rich wherever you get your podcasts, and of course on
social media that's Covino and Rich.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Sunday, the Fastest Racing on Earth gets the streets of
the motor City of the Detroit brand Creed. The IndyCar
season continues Sunday at twelve thirty Eastern on Fox.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
So Matt hasseled back yesterday on our show assured us
that Aaron Rodgers is going to be a Pittsburgh Steeler.
May very well be a Pittsburgh Steeler. I don't know.
He was recently he was doing a Q and A
in front of people Aaron was, And again, when you're
performative in front of people, you may say things that
in the moment gets the crowd worked up. Or I'm
(23:53):
not holding Aaron to every word of a public podcast
or a public talk. People say things, but it does
sound like there's a story out there. I think Aaron
said he would play for ten million dollars. That tells
me that money's not driving him. He also said recently,
I'm not going to play for the Saints. I don't
(24:14):
want to live in Indianapolis. That tells me where he
play place matters. And this sounds like he's not that
far from retirement.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
I've thought about that, and I don't understand what the
what the reason for that is. You know, at the
same time, I grew up a Niner fan and most
of my my favorite players retired as a Niner, So
I understand the cool thing about it. But if I
didn't do it, would that make a difference in how
(24:47):
I'm viewed in the packer's eyes. There's a lot of
love for me and how I feel about the team.
If I do, if I don't, I don't think you
should make a difference. I'm not sure yet. If they
approached me about it, I probably would.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, Aaron's saying, you know, if they approached me about playing,
I probably would. Well, they have Jordan Love. So you're
saying you'd be a backup. And so you're saying you
would close your career and you're still a starting quarterback
in this league. You've aged, but you're still a starting quarterback.
So you're basically saying, is I'd go be a backup
for Green Bay. Wow, that's something you'd play for ten million.
(25:20):
That's something I don't want to play in Louisiana. That's
something These are your words, But I was saying when
the show ended yesterday, I said, you know, there's two
quarterbacks in the history of great quarterbacks. I've never quite
known what to do with Dan Marino and Aaron Rodgers.
Because whereas baseball is about stats, stats are really important
for baseball people and basketball style and culture is really important.
(25:47):
In football, it's about winning big games. That's why Elway,
who didn't throw as pretty a ball as Marino is
here and Marino's much lower, John got to the big
game more even if he lost it. And to me,
there's always been four or five things when you start
counting everything for the great quarterbacks. I want to know
your Super Bowl appearances and wins. Don't have to win
(26:09):
all of them. I'm not looking for six for six.
I want division titles so you at least dominate your division.
You may have somebody like Brady or Peyton Manning in
your conference, but you at least dominate your division. I
obviously want a lot of productivity. I want your playoff record.
Those are your biggest games, whether you win all of them,
but I want you to have some impressive playoff resume stuff.
(26:32):
And I'll count MVPs are a personal award, but they
mean something. It means a high level of play amongst
your peers. I will not count passer rating. Tua and
Jimmy Garoppolo, Deshaun Watson, and Russell Wilson have a significantly
higher passer rating than Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Josh Allen.
(26:52):
I know Aaron has the best passer rating of all time.
I do not care. Passer rating does not matter. It's
like NBA Coach of the Year Phil Jackson has won.
It's an irrelevant award. I think the people who win
it put the plaque in their garage behind the Rakes
and the Brooms. It just doesn't matter. And passer rating
means nothing to me. MVPs signify amongst your peers. You
(27:20):
are the best that season, so that matters. But when
you look at Marino and Aaron Rodgers, they're not close.
Aaron's been to one super Bowl, had one great playoff run,
eleven and ten in the playoffs division titles. Yes, MVPs impressive,
(27:41):
but what do I do with that? Where do I
put that? Because when you put him in that group
of all time great quarterbacks Brady Montana, Elway, Mahomes, Peyton, Bradshaw,
Farv Aikman, Young, not even Marino matches up. And I've
said this before. Well know, Marino and Aaron are the same,
(28:04):
really talented. You may have the two best releases I've
ever seen esthetically pleasing, but relative to talent, they didn't
win enough. I mean, Dan Marino had Don Shula, arguably
the best coach of all time, still didn't dominate his division,
(28:24):
one great playoff run, and had good teammates. Aaron always
had a good old line, always had an offensive coach.
In much of Aaron's career, the Lions were awful, The
Bears were egregiously bad, and Minnesota was never great, although
they had some great players, they were kind of good.
And yet Kirk Cousins went five hundred the minute he
(28:47):
got into that division against Aaron. So I've never understood
exactly if Aaron retired today. It's again, this is not basketball.
It's not about style, it's not about culture. It's winning
big games. If you think about Aaron Rodgers all time
greatest playoff moments, one jumps out the Jared Cook throw
(29:08):
against Dallas. It may be as good as anything I've
ever seen. But Eli Manning, who I didn't put on
that board, has two of those, David Tyree and Mario
Manningham and he's got two Super Bowls over Brady and Belichick.
Manning's also got what do I do? What do I
do with Eli? He's like Philip Rivers. If Philip Rivers
(29:29):
won Super Bowls? What do I do? So this the thing,
and I've said this with both Marino and Aaron Rodgers.
It's hard to quantify super Bowls, division titles, productivity, winning
big games, iconic moments, they're everything else. I'll give them
(29:50):
the MVPs. Those matter, But I was looking at passer
rating this morning. I just it's nonsense. And this is
and I've always my belief has always been Aaron at
the end of his career played to protect his passer rating.
If he threw an interception or two, he shut it down.
He played to protect that all time number one passer rating.
(30:13):
And it's great. It's just an inch above Mahomes and
Lamar Jackson. But Peyton Mannings is sixteenth, Kurt Warners is nineteenth,
Josh Allen is twenty third. In fact, Derek Carr and
Josh Allen are neck and neck on passer rating. I
can't count that. That can't be a thing if you
don't have If you have one NBA Finals appearance as
(30:36):
a coach, but you've won the Coach of the Year
four times, I'm putting you a below Phil Jackson. I'm sorry,
I got to put your ball.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Well.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Phil had Michael Jordan, Doug Collins had him, stan Olbrich
had him well, I mean Phil had Kobe Bryant, so
did Del Harris. I don't want to hear it. His
New York next day may have been a mess. I
don't want to hear it, all right, j Mac. Also,
Nick Wright is on at the top of the hour.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
I will, oh, hold, I cannot let some of that slide.
You know, I'm out on Rogers because he screwed the Jets.
He was terrible, he got it, blah blah bh that's right,
But I do have to put in some context, like
Eli Manning was great in two Super Bowl games, two games.
Aaron Rodgers has been great for seasons?
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yes, what matters more to you.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
A sixteen game season sample size where he won four
MVPs or a game for Eli he won one Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Well, it's obvious Aaron is rated and I would rate
him higher than Eli Manning as a quarter.
Speaker 3 (31:39):
And that's where it gets difficult, because it's like, are
we dinging Rogers too much for not getting to enough
Super Bowl? Is not winning enough and pumping up Eli
because of you know.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
No off front. I think Eli Manning is absolutely fairly
categorized as a Hall of Famer, but not a top
fifteen quarterback. Nobody thinks he's a top fifteen quarterback. But
you can't beat Belichick and Brady in their prime twice
have two iconic throws and go, well, I don't know
he's Philip Rivers, No, he's not so so nobody is
(32:12):
saying I would never insinuate that Aaron's below Eli. So
obviously regular season MVPs and stats and productivity matter a lot.
But again we're talking all time top ten twelve guys.
Everything is something, nothing's everything, but everything is something. So
in my take is with Aaron and Marino, if you're
(32:33):
going to count them up against Brady and Montana and
Elway and Mahomes, and you're gonna get ding for getting
to one super Bowl. So do you have Lway above
Aaron Rodgers? Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely, I think yeah.
I don't even again, I grew up. You know, I'm
(32:54):
watching John Elway's career. I was a Seahawk fan right like.
I saw him live. I saw John Elway leadership, fourth
quarter comebacks. I think he's one of a short group.
Back our two.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Next, be sure to catch live editions of The Herd
weekdays at noon Eastern non a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Here we go, it's hour two and it's a Tuesday.
Nick Wright, five minutes Love in Chicago. It's the Herd.
Wherever you may be and however you may be listening,
events for making us part of your day. So j Mac,
I've been on something I think for about I don't
know three weeks or a month. People tell me I'm
getting pushed back. You know, I don't know if I am.
(33:40):
But my take is take.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
I thought it was maybe a supplement of Sunday.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
No, it's it's I'm not a big tradition guy. I
didn't go to church as a kid, and a lot
of people did so I've never been a big romantic
about sports. So I saw something interesting this morning, and
with that, I would love to introduce America to a
pillar of decency, a standard of honesty and truth telling
(34:07):
that is unrivaled in America. Right the La Times, who
now becomes the second media juggernaut in America, me being
the other that thinks the Notre Dame USC rivalry isn't
the beginning in the end of college football. It's just
another cool game. The La Times, in one of their graphs, said,
(34:33):
this morning us he is choosing to take the cold,
calculated route when it comes to this quandary whether to
play Notre Dame or not. I understand why Why should
the Trojans be expected to carry the water for the
soul of college football at the cost of their own
playoff odds? While the rest of the sports leaders, USC's
own included, have made clear how much tradition really actually
(34:53):
means to them. Yeah, the pac twow folded. You can
pay high school players. Stop with this almost hackneyed sentimentality.
The world changes. Everything else is changing. You can deny
AI is going to change the world, but as you
do it just auto corrected a text. And I know
(35:16):
your grandma would prefer a letter so at Graham's, but
they're going to get an emoji in FaceTime. That's the
world we live in. Yeah, I know. Once USC played
in a conference that had games against cal and Arizona
and Arizona State and Stanford, which often is awful and
sometimes is interesting, and Washington State and Oregon State, and
(35:36):
the only power consistently was Oregon. But now Oregon joined them,
and now they play Penn State and Michigan and Ohio State.
In fact, the three teams from the West that join them, UCLA, Oregon,
and Washington are their biggest toughest rivals, two of them
cold weather games. So yeah, USC has said, well play
(36:00):
the game, but on our terms early where it's sunny,
and I don't blame them. Lincoln Riley is paid to
get to the playoffs, not cling to tradition. And I
said this yesterday. A November roadie in South Bend, Indiana
(36:20):
is not attractive when the following week after going to
South Bend, flying back to LA with nineteen year olds
flying back to Philadelphia, flying back home, you still have
a tournament, a playoff to be in potentially. So it's
a different bomb game and college football has always had.
(36:41):
I've looked at the demographics four years. It has an
older fan base and older people in America generally cling
to tradition. I get it. The number one question I'm asked.
I was asked on the train this morning, the number
one question I get asked, what do you make of
college sports? And my take is exchanging so's everything. AI
is going to change medicine, it's changing law. He was
(37:04):
an attorney. It's changing everything, So it can change college football.
I think it's changing the NIL is changing college basketball
for the better. You just have to understand now.
Speaker 8 (37:14):
Is.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
The college football is now seventy five percent of professional model,
and it's not going backwards. Once you introduce big money
into anything, it doesn't go backwards, it doesn't retreat. And
so if USC plays Notre Dame great, but USC doesn't
need Notre Dame. Notre Dame refusing to go in a
true conference needs USC. So the pendulum at this time
(37:39):
in negotiations has swung to USC. I know it's not valiant,
as the La Times also pointed out, it doesn't show
great courage or it's not a valiant move, but it
makes sense. Lincoln's paid to get to the playoff, not
to cling the games that frankly the biggest rating for
college football. I think it was Texas and Georgia. It
(38:02):
wasn't Texas and Oklahoma. Here's Lincoln Riley on the changes
that are happening to a sport.
Speaker 9 (38:09):
There are some changes that we've all just got to
accept because it's just part of it right now. Obviously
that continues to move and we'll see out evolves. But
I think any door that closes, well, there's also a new,
really exciting door that's getting opened, and we've got to
I think we can still love what was in the past,
but let's don't miss that there's some like pretty cool
(38:32):
things happening right in front of our face right now
that we're kind of all in the forefront of.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
If you're telling me usc is playing Penn State tomorrow.
I'm watching, and Michigan and Ohio State, and Oregon and
Georgia and Texas I'm watching. I don't think it's worth
sacrificing another cold weather roady in November to appeal to traditionalists.
(38:57):
You're not paid for courage, You're paid for winning. That's
the bottom line.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Herd weekdays
and Noone Easter not a em Pacific.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I was thinking about this, Jmac. We started the hour
talking about this, and I was thinking about if you
really do think about players that played different I'm not
talking about just scoring, players that are exhilarating to watch
in the history of the NBA, and I wrote these down.
These were first top of mind. I'm not talking about
just scores. Alex English led the NBA and scoring in
(39:30):
the eighties, right. I loved him, but he wasn't exhilarating.
I don't think we've had as many as you think,
Doctor J. David Thompson, Michael Jordan, Magic Bird, Lebron's Staff,
Dominique Ant, Clyde Drexler are the ones that just jump
out to me like they just literally they were just
more vertical players. I would say, there are far more
(39:51):
SGAs and Duncan's and yokay, let me put Kobe in there,
my bad. I'll put Kobe and Shack. I'm Kobe and Shack,
my bad. So I'm so Kobe and Shaq. Charles Barkley
was Let me tell Charles Barkley in there. Okay, let
me do this real quick, j Mac. Okay, And I'm
not saying I'm not missing some one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven,
(40:16):
twelve players that I consider just it play. I mean
the round amount of rebound Barkley grabbing the rebound coast
to coast, jamming it through. But the league's probably had
two to three times out of guys that are just proficient.
They score a lot, they're good players, They're not dynamic.
We've had more SGAs than we've had ants. Would you
(40:37):
agree with that?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
If Carl the Mailman Malone in there.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
No, I thought his game was boring. I never thought
he was a captivating.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
Player, never a Jazz fan at all.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Like Sun Kemp the rain Man. Right, Okay, there's another one.
Okay on dude, Okay, No, that's good. That's good call
on that good get So now we're at thirty. You
didn't see David Thompson. He was insane, Okay, so Camp
puts us at thirteen. I mean players that literally you
could turn the sound down and go wt H. That
is just different than anything I've ever seen. But by
(41:06):
and large, to just make the NBA. Even if you're
a proficient scorer, it doesn't matter if you're Rick Berry,
Bernard King, it doesn't matter. Like Kevin McHale a team
Duncan Malone, like most of the great players are not
like jaw dropping right there. They're what we've talked about
(41:28):
this before. In the NFL, ninety five percent of what
Mahomes does is like twelve yard drag routes and about
three three times a game Mahomes goes whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa whoa. But Michael Jordan, he was a mid range specialist.
You always see like the same twenty five highlights. Jordan
was great. Nobody disputes that. But Michael was the master
(41:51):
of getting a bucket and getting a stop. Mahomes is
the master John Elway was before him of like the
two minute drill, making the great escape, the great throw.
But by and large, pro sports at its core is fundamental, circumstantial.
Do the basics, don't miss the layups, and Kemp is
(42:11):
a good call on that. That puts us at thirteen
player thirteen players that played different. Okay, what about it?
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Like a Derek Rose because he was awesomely skilled but
also a human highlight reel who would just explode and
dunk and man, if Derek Rose didn't have the injuries,
I'll just tell you right now, I think Derick Rose
will be more highly thought of as a superstar than
SGA will just because Rose his connection to Chicago.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I could throw a Rose in that would get us
to fourteen. That's a good call. Derek was spectactical.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Don't remember his first playoff game, his first playoff series
against the Celtics.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Remember that he was like unstoppable? Though, who is this guy? Well, well,
if it wasn't for weight and injuries, I think you
could put Zion in there. I think he plays different
than anybody.
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Colin Cowherd
Jason McIntyre
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